April 19, 2025 • 27 mins
Rita Williams turned personal tragedy into powerful advocacy when her spouse was unexpectedly sentenced to 10-20 years in prison, revealing deep flaws in the criminal justice system and sparking her mission to expose judicial misconduct and support others facing similar challenges.
• Former federal employee who pursued a master's in criminal justice before her spouse faced white-collar charges
• Discovered her spouse had high-functioning autism only after his incarceration, highlighting how the system fails neurodivergent individuals
• Used blogging, websites, and social media to expose a prosecutor with 18 years of misconduct, eventually forcing him to relocate
• Advocates for criminal justice reform, particularly ending solitary confinement and creating better supports for people with autism
• Works with Michigan Citizens for Prison Reform and helps coordinate legislative days to connect lawmakers with those affected by the system
• Creates resources to guide people through the legal system and protect them from predatory practices
• Emphasizes the importance of being informed about the criminal justice system before you need it
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to why Not Me ?
The World Podcast, hosted byTony Mantor, broadcasting from
Music City, usa, nashville,tennessee.
Join us as our guests tell ustheir stories.
Some will make you laugh, somewill make you cry.
Their stories Some will makeyou laugh, some will make you
(00:30):
cry.
Real life people who willinspire and show that you are
not alone in this world.
Hopefully, you gain moreawareness, acceptance and a
better understanding for autismaround the world.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
(00:53):
Welcome to why Not Me?
The World Humanity OverHandcuffs the Silent Crisis
special event.
Today we're thrilled to welcomeRita Williams, a distinguished
strategist and consultantdedicated to empowering
mission-driven organizations.
Rita excels in crafting bold,data-informed programs, policies
(01:14):
and campaigns that are deeplyrooted in lived experiences.
Her expertise lies in designingtrauma-informed equity-driven
initiatives.
Leading DEI transformationsthrough justice-informed
equity-driven initiatives.
Leading DEI transformationsthrough justice-informed
leadership training andchampioning second-chance hiring
strategies.
She also provides strategicguidance on evidence-based
(01:35):
policy grant development andstakeholder engagement.
With a compelling personalstory and a wealth of insights
to share, rita is here toinspire and inform.
So if you could share some ofyour experiences and your
journey on how it led you towhere you are today, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
So what got me into all of this?
It was I guess we'll start fromwhen I was a teenager is the
easiest place if I've always hada love for what makes people
tick and as a result, I thoughtI was going to grow up and be a
true crime writer.
I wanted to be like Ann Ruleshe's actually still one of my
heroes and as I grew up and gotolder, I realized writing does
not pay the bills and was talkedinto more practical workflow
(02:16):
and careers.
I ended up becoming a publicservant for the federal
government, finished abachelor's degree and it was
during the pandemic that Irealized there's more to me than
all of this.
There's more to me than thisproblem solver at work.
I want to go make a differencein the world and at that point
in time I went and pursued amaster's in criminal justice,
(02:37):
hoping that I could eventuallytransfer to Department of
Justice.
The plans that life had for mewere so much weirder because my
spouse ended up getting accusedof a white collar crime just two
months after I graduated frommy program.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Wow, that's too bad.
That's just really unfortunate.
What happened from there?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Being educated, having a master's degree, level
education, believed I have anidea of how the system works.
These are the things thatshould happen.
Then having a crash course withit, supporting somebody who is
now a defendant, I realized no,this is not at all the case.
Things are very different thanhow I perceived them to be.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
So what were your thoughts now that you was
involved in the legal system?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Walking into it, I tried to give everyone the
benefit of a doubt, believinghey, these are professionals,
they know what they're doing, Ican trust the powers that be.
My spouse was talked into aplea deal in October of 2023, or
, I'm sorry, 2022.
We get to January 2023.
He goes to sentencing believingwe're going to be okay out of
(03:41):
all of this.
He had just started awoodworking business.
We get there and he is, out ofnowhere, sentenced to 10.
He had just started awoodworking business.
We get there and he is, out ofnowhere, sentenced to 10 to 20
years in prison by the judge.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Wow, that's just overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Incredibly traumatic.
But part of me, just in my gut,I was like something is other
than what just happened to me.
Something is very wrong here.
It sparked a need to find outwhat went so wrong.
I ended up finding out thatthis particular county where all
of this happened has a reallylong history of railroading
people, mistreating people withdisabilities, especially autism.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
With the information that you're finding out.
What was your next steps fromthere?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I started publishing all of it.
As a result of that, of lookingfor answers and trying to help
people, I've been able to reallyplug into an amazing community
and really just become who I amtoday Somebody who's pursuing a
doctorate in human services,trying to make the system better
, Somebody who also stillpublishes about corruption and
(04:40):
still puts those pieces out andhelps people when they land in
the middle of this, not surewhere to go.
So that's how I got here.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
That's a great story.
Now you mentioned writing.
Are you still writing?
And if you are, how is thatgoing?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I do.
I still do a lot of blogging.
I also do a lot of contentcreation.
I work for a nonprofit calledResilience Education Amazing
people.
We do both in-prison educationand then post-incarceration
support of helping people getback up on their feet.
I still write daily.
I would be shocked to see ifthere is not something that I
could find to write about,whether it's, unfortunately, the
(05:16):
young man who recently lost hislife in Idaho, who had autism,
or how does somebody getinvolved in court, watching to
prevent judicial misconduct andbe able to inform their
community of what's happeningand help people make more
informed decisions.
When voting, whether it'sthrough LinkedIn or connecting
(05:40):
with people or on my blog, becareful what you wish for right,
because I did become a truecrime writer.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yes, you just never know what the future holds for
you.
Now, you mentioned autism.
What brought up autism?
Why did you focus on that somuch?
Is there a reason that thatmeans a lot to you?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
So a big part of my spouse's case actually was what
plugged me into it.
I had already known from myeducation and then also from
continuing ed, that trauma,mental illness, can play a very
heavy role in the presence ofcriminality, or what we define
as a society as criminality,because especially those
(06:21):
judgment centers of your brainmay not be firing the way that
they should be.
We found out actually after myspouse was incarcerated that he
had high-functioning autism.
Suddenly it was like everythingclicked into place, of like how
sometimes he'd be looking at mebut not looking at me, or how
his thoughts would be like somuch farther ahead than
(06:43):
everybody else's, like we knewto an extent we were
neurodivergent, like I have ADHDand so do our children, but to
find out from another level thatwas going on.
That's when that collisioncourse happened of I had that
foundation already of knowingabout mental illness and issues,
but then I guess, not just theconnection close to home, but
(07:04):
then also making friends in thecommunity and through my work I
started to see how prevalent itwas and how we don't really talk
about it as a society.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Okay, so a little birdie told me that you attacked
something or really went afterit.
They said it was quite thefirestorm.
Can you elaborate about that?
If I remember correctly, it wassomething like they said you
(07:35):
can't do anything about it.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Then you just said watch me, so there's nothing.
I hate being told more than youcan't do that.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Or there's nothing you can do about it.
And I'm like, oh really,because there's always something
you can do.
There's always a way you canadvocate or work towards
something and make the systemmore equitable.
Some of the things that I'veseen happen in the system,
especially in terms of prisonmisconduct or COs behaving badly
I guess the biggest claim tofame is I actually had a
prosecutor moved from one countyto another very secretly, very
(08:09):
quietly, but obviously, being adata person, I'm tracking and
seeing what's going on, butknowing that they had actually
covered up and abused adefendant for years and years.
It was actually because of Ryan,my spouse's case that we were
able to uncover all of that, andthis guy had spent 18 years
damaging defendants' lives,basically through plea bargains,
(08:32):
through mismanaged andmisdocumented plea bargains, and
I was like I'm not going tostand by and wait.
And everybody was like youcan't say anything, you can't
publish that.
And I'm like, why not?
They're an elected official,this is my tax dollars at work.
People deserve to know what'shappening and they deserve to
know, before they get to thecourtroom, what the potential
(08:52):
outcomes are.
Yeah, so I gained thatreputation of I don't believe
you can tell me like no, there'snothing I can do about it,
because I'm going to expose itone way or the other.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah, that's great.
So now that you've done that,what has happened since?
Has it opened doors to otherthings for you as well?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
In some ways it became a hurdle because I got so
good at it that I was actuallyhit with retaliatory charges.
So that wasn't fun.
But I've had a lot of peoplewho are like you're not crazy.
A lot of people from thecriminal justice reform
community, especially criminaldefense lawyers, are like you
are absolutely spot on in yourobservation.
(09:33):
Then I also have a lot ofpeople come to me and what do I
do next?
Where do I go?
How do I get help?
And so I've inadvertently hadto start creating those
resources because there aren'tany.
So walking people through hey,I know that there is allegedly
this agency that's supposed tohelp you, but don't do that.
Go here instead, because you'regoing to have a better outcome.
(09:53):
Or find community members in aparticular area, like, for
example, resilience, people whounderstand what you're going
through and can help support youon that next phase of life.
Just helping people kind ofcircumvent, because there are
people who can be predatory outthere and take advantage of
those who don't know the ins andouts.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Absolutely.
Now has that opened up thelegal system more to you Like
lawyers, judges, evenlegislators.
How do you find that now movingforward?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yes, absolutely it has.
I've had some incredibleopportunities.
I've been able to writetestimony for some bills,
especially here in Michigan.
One that we're working on rightnow with Michigan Citizens for
Prison Reform is ending solitaryconfinement, because it's a
very mentally degradingexperience, especially more so
if you're somebody who alreadysuffers from autism.
(10:44):
There's one of those bills thatwe're getting ready to have.
We're getting ready to host alegislative day on May 6th where
I'll be there to help getpeople back and forth to their
appointments to meet theirlegislators and start putting a
face to the person, Because youknow, legislators need to
understand that when they'rewriting law, they're affecting
real people.
No-transcript.
(11:17):
I'm really lucky with thecommunity that sprung up around
me and that I've not had stonesthrown at me and cast me down.
It's more of like people whohave helped me stand back up and
find my voice and give me themicrophone to an extent.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, when you get someonegoing to see a legislator, they
sit down with them, tell themtheir stories.
They feel bad, but then rightafter that, they have another
person coming in telling themtheir stories.
They feel bad, but then rightafter that, they have another
person coming in telling themtheir story.
They feel bad.
What they really need is agroup of people sitting down
with them, almost grabbing themby the throat and telling them
hey look, we need some changehere.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Absolutely, and that's one thing that I think I
got tagged in on for legislativeday is like can you help people
tell their story?
Tagged in on for legislativeday is like can you help people
tell their story Because I havebeen able to create mine or put
mine forward in a more punchyway of this happened.
I wasn't happy about it.
Here's what I did, and that's abig battle of you need to hear
a group of people because, likeyou said, if it's just one off
(12:16):
or two off, legislators aregoing to blow that off and think
that you're an outlier.
But it's not the case at all.
We're a silent majority.
It's just something that themedia doesn't cover.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, I definitely agree and I can testify to that.
So what do you see happeningfor you in the next few years?
What's your plans and what'syour ultimate goals?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
My goals.
I tag into a lot of projectsand a lot of people reach out to
me.
In terms of criminal justicereform, I have a very big heart
for it and I'd had the mostwonderful compliment last week
of somebody said you have theheart for this and you need that
to be successful.
So I plan on advocating more.
I don't know that I'll ever runfor office I don't think I
(12:58):
would want to do that, but Idefinitely want to help people
survive the trenches and buildthem up so they don't feel alone
, because that does happen a lot.
And also I really want to seemore legislation on criminal
justice, mental health reformsand especially autism reform,
because there is I think we'reat a fever pitch right now where
(13:19):
not just the law enforcementside needs to understand it
better, but the public ingeneral needs to understand it
better too if we want to seemeaningful change.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, I agree.
I speak with a lot of peopleabout change.
I always bring this up you wantchange.
You have to understand everyonewants change.
The only problem is when you'redealing with legislators.
You're dealing with a group ofpeople that go back and forth on
different things and the bigproblem it takes time.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
That's the painful part, and especially when you're
sitting in the middle of thesystem and you have a loved one
that's on that other side,that's where it starts to really
be like oh, this is going soslow.
But I find that if you havesomething healthy to focus on
and something to work toward, itmakes that weight a little bit
better, because you're not justat that point doing something
(14:16):
for you, you're setting thetable for everyone else behind
you, and that's the mostbeautiful part is you're going
through pain right now butyou're making it better for
somebody on the other side.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, I agree If you can get your point across.
So what are some of the waysthat you've been creative to get
your point across?
I read or heard that one personsaid that you couldn't do it,
you couldn't get your pointacross.
Then you went out and actuallyblogged and did your things and
got your point across.
(14:47):
Then they said well, I guess wepicked the wrong person to go
after.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah.
So some of the more creativethings I've done is I've always
had a knack for like web designand development.
So I've done is.
I've always had a knack forlike web design and development,
so I've created websites.
I've done changeorg petitions.
A lot of people do those butthey don't always get attention.
You have to make sure thatyou're writing it well, that
(15:12):
you're designing graphics for it.
I've actually done some creativethings in terms of sending
people awards, like leastinformed prosecutor.
I've had awards made up on Etsy, which is I wouldn't advise
that.
Don't do that.
They may not like that.
But I've also been on somepodcasts, which is great We've
(15:34):
had.
Let's see what are some otherthings we've done.
I wouldn't advise it, butrobocalls that sometimes gets
attention.
Some of the biggest things youcan do is just and this is going
to be the weirdest one to say,but I think a lot of people get
it say the quiet part out loud,share your experience, but put
it into something that's notnecessarily heavy but something
(15:57):
that's quick to share.
Just doing that on social mediaand finding your own, I think,
is one of the best ways.
And then organizing people.
So those are some of the thingsthat we've had to do.
But then, even getting on asstrange as it sounds like the
Nextdoor app, we've been able tofind people who were also
impacted by judges andprosecutors, by some law
(16:17):
enforcement misconduct, just byasking questions and saying, hey
, has anybody seen anythingweird or had anything weird
happen with this?
And there are a lot of peoplethey're just dying to tell their
story because nobody'slistening.
Or you have a group who's oh no, that couldn't possibly happen.
Here.
You have this person who's beendowntrodden.
If you approach them, suddenlythey're not alone anymore and
(16:39):
they're just ready to talk.
A big part of it, honestly, wasjust getting really creative
and good on social media andunique blogging and just coming
at it from a digital angle,because there's only so far the
letter writing campaigns willget you, and social media was
where I think I had the mostimpact, just because it's so
(16:59):
wide open.
It's that digital sphere.
Yeah, I mean there's definitelysome things.
I've said it a little shorterand maybe a little meaner than I
should have and that got someattention, but you definitely
will draw more flies with honeythan vinegar, I will say as a
lesson learned.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, but sometimes you just have to put it out
there what needs to be said.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
That is true.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
You can tiptoe around it, you can have diplomacy, I
mean, you can be as diplomaticas you want to be.
But it's like the old sayinggoes don't take my niceness for
weakness.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Sometimes you just have to step up to the plate,
say I've been trying to be asnice as I can and you don't
accept it, so you just blastthem.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, and honestly, what I had to do most recently
with this other case is justkeep blasting of bam here's this
case where something went wrong.
Bam, here's this case wheresomething went wrong.
And you have to keep puttingthose posts out.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah, absolutely Otherwise.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
here's this case where something went wrong and
you have to keep putting thoseposts out.
Yeah, absolutely, otherwisethey're going to feel like they
can get complacent and just getaway with it, and so I've been
really lucky that, because I'vebeen staying on top of things,
I've actually been able to helpquite a few people not just get
out of potentially badsituations with plea bargains in
this particular county that Iwas dealing with, but also
(18:23):
they've had some better outcomesin their cases, because one of
the most creative things I didwas I said give me your case
file.
I ran through the entire thing.
I peeled it apart back to back.
I basically, because I havecriminal justice training, I ran
through it as I was aninvestigator, and here's all the
reasons why I wouldn't have putthis case forward and how that
(18:44):
investigator did a terrible job.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
That sounds like it was really a positive thing to
do for you.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
That actually became one of the best and most popular
posts on my blog.
Somebody claiming there was analtercation in this truck cab
with no cup holders, but theyhad just gone to get food.
Somebody's going to have foodall over them and they're out in
public.
Nobody saw these people coveredwith food.
I highly doubt it.
So it's things that you stepthrough that.
I'm lucky that I've got theprofessional training, but some
(19:12):
of it is just common sense too.
Step through that.
I'm lucky that I've got theprofessional training, but some
of it is just common sense too.
And I will say, having thatopportunity to be able to voice
things for people and break itdown in a way that makes things,
I guess, less difficult tounderstand and more manageable,
that makes it a lot easier, too,of just empowering people so
that they're like I'm not goingto fall for that.
(19:32):
I know what happened.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's amazing One of the things you just said.
I have five judges coming on mypodcast over the next couple of
months.
I asked one of them a question.
He took about a minute to thinkit over and then his answer
that he came back with commonsense.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, which isn't very common.
The craziest part to me, andthat's encouraging to me to hear
a judge like oh, thank goodness, we're going to be okay.
There's actually a judge outthere who's like common sense,
you know, like it shouldn't becommon sense for a judge to not
understand mental health.
It shouldn't be common sensefor a judge to not consider that
(20:12):
somebody you know has autism.
But yet here we are.
We still, unfortunately, havejudges who are like no, this
person is just a terrible personand they're evil.
And that's not true.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, the good thing is they're not all that way.
My very first episode for thismonth was with a judge out of
Las Vegas.
She has a court system that isthe only one in the country, and
I just have a hard timebelieving that there's no other
court systems in the countrythat's like this.
(20:44):
What she tries to do is divertall the young kids out of the
court system.
So if they follow the rules,they have a good chance of
having a future with their lives.
She does have an autistic child, but it didn't start because of
that.
It started because she had anopening and they had an autistic
(21:05):
person that needed somecalmness, so they put that kid
in her court.
Then another person saw thatand wound up getting another
autistic child in her court, andthen it just evolved from there
into a system that is unlikeany other court system in the
country.
So if she can do it, why aren'tothers?
(21:25):
Unfortunately, this just leavesus a huge hill to climb for
those that are autistic.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
There is and the sad part is that judges and
prosecutors they have the mostpower and they don't even.
They either don't realize it orthey don't want to realize it
because there unfortunately is alot of money and punishment.
But if you have diversionprograms for adults, which there
are places I'm lucky that thecounty I live in has phenomenal
diversion programs they do havemental health court.
(21:55):
They have treatment orsubstance abuse treatment courts
.
They have access to thosethings for people to divert them
away, because diversion ends upsaving the taxpayer money.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
It saves the taxpayers huge money.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Millions, and not just that, but it also creates
jobs in those other sectors andit creates just a more holistic
and equitable environmentoverall.
So if you're going to do thatfor adults, why not do that for
(22:29):
juveniles?
When it comes to juvenile court, we just recently this year
made it so juvenile defendantshave access to court appointed
attorneys that are paid for.
That is so backward of like youhave these kids that you're
basically saddling debt, and itwas up until a couple months ago
(22:50):
, completely okay to do it.
It's bonkers.
The common sense does not existin the system, or just empathy
sometimes.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Yeah, and unfortunately, the more issues a
person has, the worse that itgets.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Absolutely One thing that they say especially for
people who are neurodivergent.
Or if you're like me and youhave ADHD, the joke is that ADHD
brings friends to the party.
Usually there's coexistingthings that go along with it,
like for me I struggle with math, I have dyscalculia, but I also
have anxiety, so I have thesethings that I have to deal with
(23:33):
in addition to my ADHD People onthe autism spectrum.
They have the same thing happen, where you can have autism and
ADHD together and anxiety.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
You can have all of those things and we need to
understand that's not an outlier, it's the norm of the human
experience of there's a uniquemix of things going on at any
given time.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
So with all the pressure, you have the ADHD
anxiety.
My question is how do you cope?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
How do I cope?
For me, sometimes, action isthe best way to keep me busy and
if I feel like I've got controlover a situation and if I'm
doing, I feel better.
If I'm helping people, Iusually feel better even if I'm
not doing anything to improve mysituation.
And for all other thingsthere's hot baths and crochet.
(24:28):
That'll take care of that.
But the big things for me islike how can I serve others and
help others just to make surethat somebody is being taken
care of, even if things aren'tnecessarily going right in my
world?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Okay, in closing, what do you think is the
important thing that listenersshould hear and understand about
what you're trying to do?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I think the most important thing that anybody can
do is learn about the criminaljustice system now, because the
odds that you or a loved onewill end up getting entangled or
involved at some point in timein your life are pretty high.
So it's better to educateyourself now and protect
yourself and know your rights,not just constitutionally but
(25:11):
legally within your own state,because every state is different
but also advocate, because younever know.
You could be one bad day away,one mental health emergency,
away from being in that hot seatand potentially going to prison
, and the way that we treatpeople now is going to make a
big deal of difference for youif you end up in that seat.
(25:33):
You have to both be informed,but most importantly, you have
to care, and I will leave thatthe whole thing.
If I have to give you guysanything of a quote from the
very wise Dr Seuss from theLorax is if people like you
don't care, how does it go?
(25:54):
If people don't care like you,or people like you don't care
like a whole lot, then thingswon't get better.
It's not.
I butchered that quote, butthat is one of my favorite
quotes from the Lorax and Ithink it was a defining quote
that I still take with me and Ihope other people take it with
them too.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's been good, goodconversation, great information.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to come on.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
No, I had a blast.
And also congratulations onbeing in the top three today.
Like what an accomplishment.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah, thanks, I appreciate it.
Well, it's been great.
Thanks again.
Thanks for taking the time outof your busy schedule to listen
to our show today.
We hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as we enjoyed bringing it
to you.
If you know anyone that wouldlike to tell us their story,
(26:48):
send them to TonyMantorcomContact then they can give us
their information so one daythey may be a guest on our show.
One more thing we ask telleveryone everywhere about why
Not Me, the world, theconversations we're having and
(27:09):
the inspiration our guests giveto everyone everywhere that you
are not alone in this world.
Welcome to why Not Me ?
The World Podcast, hosted byTony Mantor, broadcasting from
Music City, usa, nashville,tennessee.
Join us as our guests tell ustheir stories.
Some will make you laugh, somewill make you cry.
Their stories Some will makeyou laugh, some will make you
(00:30):
cry.
Real life people who willinspire and show that you are
not alone in this world.
Hopefully, you gain moreawareness, acceptance and a
better understanding for autismaround the world.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
(00:53):
Welcome to why Not Me?
The World Humanity OverHandcuffs the Silent Crisis
special event.
Today we're thrilled to welcomeRita Williams, a distinguished
strategist and consultantdedicated to empowering
mission-driven organizations.
Rita excels in crafting bold,data-informed programs, policies
(01:14):
and campaigns that are deeplyrooted in lived experiences.
Her expertise lies in designingtrauma-informed equity-driven
initiatives.
Leading DEI transformationsthrough justice-informed
equity-driven initiatives.
Leading DEI transformationsthrough justice-informed
leadership training andchampioning second-chance hiring
strategies.
She also provides strategicguidance on evidence-based
(01:35):
policy grant development andstakeholder engagement.
With a compelling personalstory and a wealth of insights
to share, rita is here toinspire and inform.
So if you could share some ofyour experiences and your
journey on how it led you towhere you are today, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
So what got me into all of this?
It was I guess we'll start fromwhen I was a teenager is the
easiest place if I've always hada love for what makes people
tick and as a result, I thoughtI was going to grow up and be a
true crime writer.
I wanted to be like Ann Ruleshe's actually still one of my
heroes and as I grew up and gotolder, I realized writing does
not pay the bills and was talkedinto more practical workflow
(02:16):
and careers.
I ended up becoming a publicservant for the federal
government, finished abachelor's degree and it was
during the pandemic that Irealized there's more to me than
all of this.
There's more to me than thisproblem solver at work.
I want to go make a differencein the world and at that point
in time I went and pursued amaster's in criminal justice,
(02:37):
hoping that I could eventuallytransfer to Department of
Justice.
The plans that life had for mewere so much weirder because my
spouse ended up getting accusedof a white collar crime just two
months after I graduated frommy program.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Wow, that's too bad.
That's just really unfortunate.
What happened from there?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Being educated, having a master's degree, level
education, believed I have anidea of how the system works.
These are the things thatshould happen.
Then having a crash course withit, supporting somebody who is
now a defendant, I realized no,this is not at all the case.
Things are very different thanhow I perceived them to be.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
So what were your thoughts now that you was
involved in the legal system?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Walking into it, I tried to give everyone the
benefit of a doubt, believinghey, these are professionals,
they know what they're doing, Ican trust the powers that be.
My spouse was talked into aplea deal in October of 2023, or
, I'm sorry, 2022.
We get to January 2023.
He goes to sentencing believingwe're going to be okay out of
(03:41):
all of this.
He had just started awoodworking business.
We get there and he is, out ofnowhere, sentenced to 10.
He had just started awoodworking business.
We get there and he is, out ofnowhere, sentenced to 10 to 20
years in prison by the judge.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Wow, that's just overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Incredibly traumatic.
But part of me, just in my gut,I was like something is other
than what just happened to me.
Something is very wrong here.
It sparked a need to find outwhat went so wrong.
I ended up finding out thatthis particular county where all
of this happened has a reallylong history of railroading
people, mistreating people withdisabilities, especially autism.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
With the information that you're finding out.
What was your next steps fromthere?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I started publishing all of it.
As a result of that, of lookingfor answers and trying to help
people, I've been able to reallyplug into an amazing community
and really just become who I amtoday Somebody who's pursuing a
doctorate in human services,trying to make the system better
, Somebody who also stillpublishes about corruption and
(04:40):
still puts those pieces out andhelps people when they land in
the middle of this, not surewhere to go.
So that's how I got here.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
That's a great story.
Now you mentioned writing.
Are you still writing?
And if you are, how is thatgoing?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I do.
I still do a lot of blogging.
I also do a lot of contentcreation.
I work for a nonprofit calledResilience Education Amazing
people.
We do both in-prison educationand then post-incarceration
support of helping people getback up on their feet.
I still write daily.
I would be shocked to see ifthere is not something that I
could find to write about,whether it's, unfortunately, the
(05:16):
young man who recently lost hislife in Idaho, who had autism,
or how does somebody getinvolved in court, watching to
prevent judicial misconduct andbe able to inform their
community of what's happeningand help people make more
informed decisions.
When voting, whether it'sthrough LinkedIn or connecting
(05:40):
with people or on my blog, becareful what you wish for right,
because I did become a truecrime writer.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yes, you just never know what the future holds for
you.
Now, you mentioned autism.
What brought up autism?
Why did you focus on that somuch?
Is there a reason that thatmeans a lot to you?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
So a big part of my spouse's case actually was what
plugged me into it.
I had already known from myeducation and then also from
continuing ed, that trauma,mental illness, can play a very
heavy role in the presence ofcriminality, or what we define
as a society as criminality,because especially those
(06:21):
judgment centers of your brainmay not be firing the way that
they should be.
We found out actually after myspouse was incarcerated that he
had high-functioning autism.
Suddenly it was like everythingclicked into place, of like how
sometimes he'd be looking at mebut not looking at me, or how
his thoughts would be like somuch farther ahead than
(06:43):
everybody else's, like we knewto an extent we were
neurodivergent, like I have ADHDand so do our children, but to
find out from another level thatwas going on.
That's when that collisioncourse happened of I had that
foundation already of knowingabout mental illness and issues,
but then I guess, not just theconnection close to home, but
(07:04):
then also making friends in thecommunity and through my work I
started to see how prevalent itwas and how we don't really talk
about it as a society.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Okay, so a little birdie told me that you attacked
something or really went afterit.
They said it was quite thefirestorm.
Can you elaborate about that?
If I remember correctly, it wassomething like they said you
(07:35):
can't do anything about it.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Then you just said watch me, so there's nothing.
I hate being told more than youcan't do that.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Or there's nothing you can do about it.
And I'm like, oh really,because there's always something
you can do.
There's always a way you canadvocate or work towards
something and make the systemmore equitable.
Some of the things that I'veseen happen in the system,
especially in terms of prisonmisconduct or COs behaving badly
I guess the biggest claim tofame is I actually had a
prosecutor moved from one countyto another very secretly, very
(08:09):
quietly, but obviously, being adata person, I'm tracking and
seeing what's going on, butknowing that they had actually
covered up and abused adefendant for years and years.
It was actually because of Ryan,my spouse's case that we were
able to uncover all of that, andthis guy had spent 18 years
damaging defendants' lives,basically through plea bargains,
(08:32):
through mismanaged andmisdocumented plea bargains, and
I was like I'm not going tostand by and wait.
And everybody was like youcan't say anything, you can't
publish that.
And I'm like, why not?
They're an elected official,this is my tax dollars at work.
People deserve to know what'shappening and they deserve to
know, before they get to thecourtroom, what the potential
(08:52):
outcomes are.
Yeah, so I gained thatreputation of I don't believe
you can tell me like no, there'snothing I can do about it,
because I'm going to expose itone way or the other.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah, that's great.
So now that you've done that,what has happened since?
Has it opened doors to otherthings for you as well?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
In some ways it became a hurdle because I got so
good at it that I was actuallyhit with retaliatory charges.
So that wasn't fun.
But I've had a lot of peoplewho are like you're not crazy.
A lot of people from thecriminal justice reform
community, especially criminaldefense lawyers, are like you
are absolutely spot on in yourobservation.
(09:33):
Then I also have a lot ofpeople come to me and what do I
do next?
Where do I go?
How do I get help?
And so I've inadvertently hadto start creating those
resources because there aren'tany.
So walking people through hey,I know that there is allegedly
this agency that's supposed tohelp you, but don't do that.
Go here instead, because you'regoing to have a better outcome.
(09:53):
Or find community members in aparticular area, like, for
example, resilience, people whounderstand what you're going
through and can help support youon that next phase of life.
Just helping people kind ofcircumvent, because there are
people who can be predatory outthere and take advantage of
those who don't know the ins andouts.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Absolutely.
Now has that opened up thelegal system more to you Like
lawyers, judges, evenlegislators.
How do you find that now movingforward?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yes, absolutely it has.
I've had some incredibleopportunities.
I've been able to writetestimony for some bills,
especially here in Michigan.
One that we're working on rightnow with Michigan Citizens for
Prison Reform is ending solitaryconfinement, because it's a
very mentally degradingexperience, especially more so
if you're somebody who alreadysuffers from autism.
(10:44):
There's one of those bills thatwe're getting ready to have.
We're getting ready to host alegislative day on May 6th where
I'll be there to help getpeople back and forth to their
appointments to meet theirlegislators and start putting a
face to the person, Because youknow, legislators need to
understand that when they'rewriting law, they're affecting
real people.
No-transcript.
(11:17):
I'm really lucky with thecommunity that sprung up around
me and that I've not had stonesthrown at me and cast me down.
It's more of like people whohave helped me stand back up and
find my voice and give me themicrophone to an extent.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, when you get someonegoing to see a legislator, they
sit down with them, tell themtheir stories.
They feel bad, but then rightafter that, they have another
person coming in telling themtheir stories.
They feel bad, but then rightafter that, they have another
person coming in telling themtheir story.
They feel bad.
What they really need is agroup of people sitting down
with them, almost grabbing themby the throat and telling them
hey look, we need some changehere.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Absolutely, and that's one thing that I think I
got tagged in on for legislativeday is like can you help people
tell their story?
Tagged in on for legislativeday is like can you help people
tell their story Because I havebeen able to create mine or put
mine forward in a more punchyway of this happened.
I wasn't happy about it.
Here's what I did, and that's abig battle of you need to hear
a group of people because, likeyou said, if it's just one off
(12:16):
or two off, legislators aregoing to blow that off and think
that you're an outlier.
But it's not the case at all.
We're a silent majority.
It's just something that themedia doesn't cover.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, I definitely agree and I can testify to that.
So what do you see happeningfor you in the next few years?
What's your plans and what'syour ultimate goals?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
My goals.
I tag into a lot of projectsand a lot of people reach out to
me.
In terms of criminal justicereform, I have a very big heart
for it and I'd had the mostwonderful compliment last week
of somebody said you have theheart for this and you need that
to be successful.
So I plan on advocating more.
I don't know that I'll ever runfor office I don't think I
(12:58):
would want to do that, but Idefinitely want to help people
survive the trenches and buildthem up so they don't feel alone
, because that does happen a lot.
And also I really want to seemore legislation on criminal
justice, mental health reformsand especially autism reform,
because there is I think we'reat a fever pitch right now where
(13:19):
not just the law enforcementside needs to understand it
better, but the public ingeneral needs to understand it
better too if we want to seemeaningful change.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, I agree.
I speak with a lot of peopleabout change.
I always bring this up you wantchange.
You have to understand everyonewants change.
The only problem is when you'redealing with legislators.
You're dealing with a group ofpeople that go back and forth on
different things and the bigproblem it takes time.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
That's the painful part, and especially when you're
sitting in the middle of thesystem and you have a loved one
that's on that other side,that's where it starts to really
be like oh, this is going soslow.
But I find that if you havesomething healthy to focus on
and something to work toward, itmakes that weight a little bit
better, because you're not justat that point doing something
(14:16):
for you, you're setting thetable for everyone else behind
you, and that's the mostbeautiful part is you're going
through pain right now butyou're making it better for
somebody on the other side.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, I agree If you can get your point across.
So what are some of the waysthat you've been creative to get
your point across?
I read or heard that one personsaid that you couldn't do it,
you couldn't get your pointacross.
Then you went out and actuallyblogged and did your things and
got your point across.
(14:47):
Then they said well, I guess wepicked the wrong person to go
after.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah.
So some of the more creativethings I've done is I've always
had a knack for like web designand development.
So I've done is.
I've always had a knack forlike web design and development,
so I've created websites.
I've done changeorg petitions.
A lot of people do those butthey don't always get attention.
You have to make sure thatyou're writing it well, that
(15:12):
you're designing graphics for it.
I've actually done some creativethings in terms of sending
people awards, like leastinformed prosecutor.
I've had awards made up on Etsy, which is I wouldn't advise
that.
Don't do that.
They may not like that.
But I've also been on somepodcasts, which is great We've
(15:34):
had.
Let's see what are some otherthings we've done.
I wouldn't advise it, butrobocalls that sometimes gets
attention.
Some of the biggest things youcan do is just and this is going
to be the weirdest one to say,but I think a lot of people get
it say the quiet part out loud,share your experience, but put
it into something that's notnecessarily heavy but something
(15:57):
that's quick to share.
Just doing that on social mediaand finding your own, I think,
is one of the best ways.
And then organizing people.
So those are some of the thingsthat we've had to do.
But then, even getting on asstrange as it sounds like the
Nextdoor app, we've been able tofind people who were also
impacted by judges andprosecutors, by some law
(16:17):
enforcement misconduct, just byasking questions and saying, hey
, has anybody seen anythingweird or had anything weird
happen with this?
And there are a lot of peoplethey're just dying to tell their
story because nobody'slistening.
Or you have a group who's oh no, that couldn't possibly happen.
Here.
You have this person who's beendowntrodden.
If you approach them, suddenlythey're not alone anymore and
(16:39):
they're just ready to talk.
A big part of it, honestly, wasjust getting really creative
and good on social media andunique blogging and just coming
at it from a digital angle,because there's only so far the
letter writing campaigns willget you, and social media was
where I think I had the mostimpact, just because it's so
(16:59):
wide open.
It's that digital sphere.
Yeah, I mean there's definitelysome things.
I've said it a little shorterand maybe a little meaner than I
should have and that got someattention, but you definitely
will draw more flies with honeythan vinegar, I will say as a
lesson learned.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, but sometimes you just have to put it out
there what needs to be said.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
That is true.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
You can tiptoe around it, you can have diplomacy, I
mean, you can be as diplomaticas you want to be.
But it's like the old sayinggoes don't take my niceness for
weakness.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Sometimes you just have to step up to the plate,
say I've been trying to be asnice as I can and you don't
accept it, so you just blastthem.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, and honestly, what I had to do most recently
with this other case is justkeep blasting of bam here's this
case where something went wrong.
Bam, here's this case wheresomething went wrong.
And you have to keep puttingthose posts out.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Yeah, absolutely Otherwise.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
here's this case where something went wrong and
you have to keep putting thoseposts out.
Yeah, absolutely, otherwisethey're going to feel like they
can get complacent and just getaway with it, and so I've been
really lucky that, because I'vebeen staying on top of things,
I've actually been able to helpquite a few people not just get
out of potentially badsituations with plea bargains in
this particular county that Iwas dealing with, but also
(18:23):
they've had some better outcomesin their cases, because one of
the most creative things I didwas I said give me your case
file.
I ran through the entire thing.
I peeled it apart back to back.
I basically, because I havecriminal justice training, I ran
through it as I was aninvestigator, and here's all the
reasons why I wouldn't have putthis case forward and how that
(18:44):
investigator did a terrible job.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
That sounds like it was really a positive thing to
do for you.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
That actually became one of the best and most popular
posts on my blog.
Somebody claiming there was analtercation in this truck cab
with no cup holders, but theyhad just gone to get food.
Somebody's going to have foodall over them and they're out in
public.
Nobody saw these people coveredwith food.
I highly doubt it.
So it's things that you stepthrough that.
I'm lucky that I've got theprofessional training, but some
(19:12):
of it is just common sense too.
Step through that.
I'm lucky that I've got theprofessional training, but some
of it is just common sense too.
And I will say, having thatopportunity to be able to voice
things for people and break itdown in a way that makes things,
I guess, less difficult tounderstand and more manageable,
that makes it a lot easier, too,of just empowering people so
that they're like I'm not goingto fall for that.
(19:32):
I know what happened.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's amazing One of the things you just said.
I have five judges coming on mypodcast over the next couple of
months.
I asked one of them a question.
He took about a minute to thinkit over and then his answer
that he came back with commonsense.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, which isn't very common.
The craziest part to me, andthat's encouraging to me to hear
a judge like oh, thank goodness, we're going to be okay.
There's actually a judge outthere who's like common sense,
you know, like it shouldn't becommon sense for a judge to not
understand mental health.
It shouldn't be common sensefor a judge to not consider that
(20:12):
somebody you know has autism.
But yet here we are.
We still, unfortunately, havejudges who are like no, this
person is just a terrible personand they're evil.
And that's not true.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, the good thing is they're not all that way.
My very first episode for thismonth was with a judge out of
Las Vegas.
She has a court system that isthe only one in the country, and
I just have a hard timebelieving that there's no other
court systems in the countrythat's like this.
(20:44):
What she tries to do is divertall the young kids out of the
court system.
So if they follow the rules,they have a good chance of
having a future with their lives.
She does have an autistic child, but it didn't start because of
that.
It started because she had anopening and they had an autistic
(21:05):
person that needed somecalmness, so they put that kid
in her court.
Then another person saw thatand wound up getting another
autistic child in her court, andthen it just evolved from there
into a system that is unlikeany other court system in the
country.
So if she can do it, why aren'tothers?
(21:25):
Unfortunately, this just leavesus a huge hill to climb for
those that are autistic.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
There is and the sad part is that judges and
prosecutors they have the mostpower and they don't even.
They either don't realize it orthey don't want to realize it
because there unfortunately is alot of money and punishment.
But if you have diversionprograms for adults, which there
are places I'm lucky that thecounty I live in has phenomenal
diversion programs they do havemental health court.
(21:55):
They have treatment orsubstance abuse treatment courts
.
They have access to thosethings for people to divert them
away, because diversion ends upsaving the taxpayer money.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
It saves the taxpayers huge money.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Millions, and not just that, but it also creates
jobs in those other sectors andit creates just a more holistic
and equitable environmentoverall.
So if you're going to do thatfor adults, why not do that for
(22:29):
juveniles?
When it comes to juvenile court, we just recently this year
made it so juvenile defendantshave access to court appointed
attorneys that are paid for.
That is so backward of like youhave these kids that you're
basically saddling debt, and itwas up until a couple months ago
(22:50):
, completely okay to do it.
It's bonkers.
The common sense does not existin the system, or just empathy
sometimes.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Yeah, and unfortunately, the more issues a
person has, the worse that itgets.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Absolutely One thing that they say especially for
people who are neurodivergent.
Or if you're like me and youhave ADHD, the joke is that ADHD
brings friends to the party.
Usually there's coexistingthings that go along with it,
like for me I struggle with math, I have dyscalculia, but I also
have anxiety, so I have thesethings that I have to deal with
(23:33):
in addition to my ADHD People onthe autism spectrum.
They have the same thing happen, where you can have autism and
ADHD together and anxiety.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
You can have all of those things and we need to
understand that's not an outlier, it's the norm of the human
experience of there's a uniquemix of things going on at any
given time.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
So with all the pressure, you have the ADHD
anxiety.
My question is how do you cope?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
How do I cope?
For me, sometimes, action isthe best way to keep me busy and
if I feel like I've got controlover a situation and if I'm
doing, I feel better.
If I'm helping people, Iusually feel better even if I'm
not doing anything to improve mysituation.
And for all other thingsthere's hot baths and crochet.
(24:28):
That'll take care of that.
But the big things for me islike how can I serve others and
help others just to make surethat somebody is being taken
care of, even if things aren'tnecessarily going right in my
world?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Okay, in closing, what do you think is the
important thing that listenersshould hear and understand about
what you're trying to do?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I think the most important thing that anybody can
do is learn about the criminaljustice system now, because the
odds that you or a loved onewill end up getting entangled or
involved at some point in timein your life are pretty high.
So it's better to educateyourself now and protect
yourself and know your rights,not just constitutionally but
(25:11):
legally within your own state,because every state is different
but also advocate, because younever know.
You could be one bad day away,one mental health emergency,
away from being in that hot seatand potentially going to prison
, and the way that we treatpeople now is going to make a
big deal of difference for youif you end up in that seat.
(25:33):
You have to both be informed,but most importantly, you have
to care, and I will leave thatthe whole thing.
If I have to give you guysanything of a quote from the
very wise Dr Seuss from theLorax is if people like you
don't care, how does it go?
(25:54):
If people don't care like you,or people like you don't care
like a whole lot, then thingswon't get better.
It's not.
I butchered that quote, butthat is one of my favorite
quotes from the Lorax and Ithink it was a defining quote
that I still take with me and Ihope other people take it with
them too.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's been good, goodconversation, great information.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to come on.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
No, I had a blast.
And also congratulations onbeing in the top three today.
Like what an accomplishment.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah, thanks, I appreciate it.
Well, it's been great.
Thanks again.
Thanks for taking the time outof your busy schedule to listen
to our show today.
We hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as we enjoyed bringing it
to you.
If you know anyone that wouldlike to tell us their story,
(26:48):
send them to TonyMantorcomContact then they can give us
their information so one daythey may be a guest on our show.
One more thing we ask telleveryone everywhere about why
Not Me, the world, theconversations we're having and
(27:09):
the inspiration our guests giveto everyone everywhere that you
are not alone in this world.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!