April 9, 2025 • 27 mins
Stephen Waddell takes us on a powerful journey of self-discovery as he shares how he uncovered his autism in adulthood after building a successful modeling career.
Despite being naturally introverted and struggling with social interactions, Stephen found himself thrust into a profession that demanded social fluency – forcing him to systematically develop scripts and strategies that masked his autistic traits.
A near-fatal accident on the New York subway at age 21 became Stephen's turning point. After surviving contact with the third rail, he emerged with a renewed determination to engage with life, methodically teaching himself social skills and transforming physically – losing nearly 200 pounds before unexpectedly entering the modeling world.
This brutal forcing of social interaction became both his challenge and eventual strength.
What makes Stephen's perspective particularly valuable is his insight into the exhausting nature of social masking. "It's been 15 years of doing the same kind of thing over and over again," he explains, describing how his carefully constructed public persona differs dramatically from his private self.
He demonstrates how simple tools like his collection of stimming rocks provide essential sensory regulation when overwhelm hits.
Now focused on nonprofit accounting, Stephen offers a fascinating perspective on how artificial intelligence can level the playing field for neurodivergent individuals.
By automating social communications that would typically require significant emotional energy, AI helps him bypass the need for masking in many situations.
His vision for technology as an equalizer offers hope for creating more accessible professional environments.
For young autistic people struggling with that "social confusion fog," Stephen's message is clear: "Take your time, it does get better."
His journey from confusion to clarity demonstrates how understanding your neurodivergent mind can transform perceived limitations into unique strengths and open unexpected paths forward.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to why Not Me , the World Podcast, hosted by
Tony Mantor, broadcasting fromMusic City, usa, nashville,
tennessee.
Join us as our guests tell ustheir stories.
Some will make you laugh, somewill make you cry.
Their stories Some will makeyou laugh, some will make you
(00:28):
cry.
Real life people who willinspire and show that you are
not alone in this world.
Hopefully, you gain moreawareness, acceptance and a
better understanding for autismaround the World.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
(00:53):
Welcome to why Not Me, theWorld.
Joining us today is StephenWaddell.
He's a model and a bloggerspecializing in writing about
his health and wellness.
He joins us today to discusshis experiences with autism and
how it has impacted his life'sjourney, as well as his
strategies for managing it andhis career choices.
(01:15):
He has a unique approach andwill undoubtedly share valuable
insights with us.
Thanks for coming on.
Yeah, no, for sure, man.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So if you would give us a little information about
yourself, what sparked that wasreally my brother and my
brother's wife and so she'sinvolved with she's getting,
she's involved in getting a PhDand I hope I don't butcher it
what exactly it is, but it's oneof those things where it's very
(01:48):
long and very niche, butessentially it's in that world
where she studies this kind ofstuff.
Growing up I always knew I wasmaybe a bit of an odd duck,
different, very introverted,very comfortable being alone.
Then later on in life mybrother's wife hope she started
studying this and startedtalking to my brother about and
(02:09):
said your behaviors match upwith this.
And then one thing led toanother and I started calling my
brother on long drives and westarted talking about this stuff
and I was like you know, I dothat and I do that, and yeah, I
do that, that's called stimmingand I was like, oh, there's a
(02:31):
word for it.
I was like that's interesting.
I just thought I was weird,there's that.
And then we started talkingabout social masking and that's
where it really settled in forme in a big way, because that's
always been a big hurdle of mineis the whole social component.
I'm a little bit fuzzy now andI put on some weight in
(02:54):
accounting season, but mybackground ended up being in the
modeling industry and I endedup building my career doing
stuff in the front end of themodeling industry a little bit
after I basically lost a bunchof weight after a bad accident
which we can talk about at somepoint.
If it's interesting, I'm openabout it Lost a bunch of weight,
(03:15):
ended up working in themodeling industry and then ended
up working in the back end ofthe modeling industry
Entertaining right, where beingsocial is very important, and
also in the modeling world,understanding social etiquette
becomes pretty important too interms of kind of income, drivers
(03:37):
, right.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So how did you approach that?
Because social is sometimesvery tough for an autistic
person.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
So it was a very interesting world to be in and I
was almost forced to have tolearn step by step do this, do
not do this, build those scriptsas a way to fit in.
It's at the point now where it'salmost like I might have to
learn how to unmask, where it'salmost like I might have to
learn how to unmask because it'sbeen 15 years of doing the same
(04:10):
kind of thing like over andover again.
And it's really like the peoplewho know me well and see me a
lot privately understand thatwhat gets presented out to the
world ends up quite frequentlylooking like somebody who might
(04:31):
have been like the captain ofthe baseball team or something
like that, which is a verycommon assumption people have.
But the person I actually amvery quiet, very introverted,
lots of niche tastes, verypeculiar at times, picky with
some things, not with others,odd sense of humor, all that
(04:52):
kind of stuff.
And I think if we're talkingabout it in terms of the
spectrum and you can see hereone of my stimming objects right
here which is rocks In terms ofthe spectrum, I'm probably less
openly showing about it In mycollege years or high school.
People might have thought itthen, but 15, 20 years of
(05:14):
masking.
In a very social industry whereyou have to appear like you're
that part of the party, you tendto learn certain things that
people are looking for.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, that's pretty understanding there.
What type of modeling did youdo?
Did it require a lot of changesin clothes?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
All modeling does.
I didn't do a ton of it, butmainly stuff in suits.
You can call it bridal, thatkind of thing.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Did you have any issues with texture of clothes?
I know some autistic peoplewill have issues with texture of
clothes.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I don't per se.
I happen to really like wooland this sweater is not a wool
one, but I have a wool sweater Ilike wearing.
That's a little bit more, andthis goes back to the masking
and I can actually show you.
And this goes back to themasking and I can actually show
you.
This is one of the woolsweaters that I like wearing,
but it looks like a Christmassweater, and so when you're
(06:11):
appearing on business meetingsand Zooms and I just was on one
you can only get away with thatfor a few weeks out of the year.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
With all of this happening, how did you come out
of your shell?
You're introverted.
You was doing a lot of masking.
Did you have to force yourselfto get that unmasking, so to
speak?
How did you handle that?
How did you approach it?
Forced?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
it 100%, forced, brutal force.
And that really happened afterI had a life-changing accident
when I was 21,.
Me and a couple of friends wereout drinking and I'll cut the
story kind of short on this partbecause it relates, but it's
not why we're here.
But essentially I ended uptripping and falling on the
(06:59):
third rail of the New Yorksubway after just nights out
drinking and I think that reallyplayed a role in the
socialization and just if it's asocial event, I just need
copious amounts of alcohol tofeel normal, just would use that
.
And then after that accidenthappened, I have an epiphany.
I was just really happy to bealive.
(07:22):
I was like okay, this arm isgoing to show you on Zoom so you
can see the scar on this arm.
That's where I hit the rail.
The electricity came out a fewspots up my spine.
I have lots of scar tissue onthe inside, a couple spots out
on my legs, out my spine.
So I have lots of scar tissueon the inside, a couple spots
out on my legs and just didsomething to me where I was like
(07:44):
I need to figure out how toparticipate in life.
I need to figure out how to dothis.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
What did you do to change so that you could move
forward in a different direction?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
So I would just force myself to learn how to have a
conversation with people, whichwas just the beginning.
Stages were rough because Iwould just go out to bars and
I'd ask people the same questionover and over again what did
you think of the game last night?
Did you see the game last night?
What did you like about thegame last night?
But it was just to force it andI would say the interesting
(08:17):
thing about that is the vastmajority of people were
relatively kind.
That's great to hear.
I would say 10% of the peoplejust got a bad attitude about it
and that was rough to deal with.
So that kind of sparkedsomething in me.
And then I was prettyoverweight at the time too.
I was about 320 pounds andbasically through this process
(08:41):
of about a year and a half Istumbled into an accidental
Atkins diet because the doctorstold me I needed to eat a lot of
protein to regrow muscle massand I lost a lot of weight and I
ended up like one of thosemoments where they're like you
can actually model and I endedup doing a little bit of that.
But I've got this big scar onmy arm and I'm almost six foot
(09:04):
five, which in the modelingworld is not a profitable thing
as a male.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, that does seem tall for a model.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, you're too tall , so you want to be between five
, 11 and a half and six to maybesix, three.
Otherwise you don't get thesample sizes of the clothing and
it's a business just likeanything else.
It's a little bit different nowbecause your influence matters
with social media and stuff thatadd that component to it, but
nonetheless it's still anindustry and then, being in that
(09:32):
industry, you were forced verymuch to understand what's
happening socially, very much tounderstand what's happening
socially.
For me it's almost like I wasable to turn a negative into a
positive because I was forced tobreak everything down and
forced to really understandthings.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Did that help you move forward with that industry?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
What eventually gave me staying power in the industry
were really two things.
I was able to understand theanalytical side of the business,
which very few people whounderstand the modeling world
and the creative aspects do, andthat translates well into the
nonprofit sector as well, whichis primarily where I am living
(10:16):
now in this day and age.
The second part to it is you endup dealing with a lot of hard
to deal with people.
Here's where we could touch ona little bit of mental illness
as well.
So I became a little bit of thenarcissist rambler, mainly
because and I've noticed thisand as I've gone through the
(10:38):
late diagnosis and everythingand I've noticed this and as
I've gone through the latediagnosis and everything that us
autistic folks and I thinkwe're very sensitive to
truthfulness, so typically thatpersonality type it's called NPD
(11:02):
.
I think they play around withthe truth in ways that I think
folks who are normalneurotypical don't pick up on it
right away until it's too late.
But it almost became a successfor me in this industry of being
able to identify this and alsonot just that deal with these
folks to a profitable result forall, entities included.
I can't get into too manyspecifics with it, because if
NDA is in this kind of thing,but we work with large companies
, publicly traded ones, and justit's this kind of thing, but we
work with large companies,publicly traded ones.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
What about sensory overload?
Did you have any instanceswhere that happened to you
during all the things that youwas doing in your daily life?
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Every day.
I still go through it andthat's one of the dangers of, I
think, my job and one of thereasons why I'm continuing to
move into the nonprofit sectorand start doing that consciously
away from the modeling sector.
Because you can see, I've gotone of my stem rocks in my hand.
I would say a lot of pacing andcircles and some sort of object
(11:53):
like this.
And then I have another onehere, similar rock.
But I found I like thedifferent sensation in my hand,
Like sometimes I want thisbecause it's an even weight in
my hand and then sometimes Iwant this because it will give
me a different sensor each timebecause it doesn't always land
the same way.
I get them from a rock storethat's five minutes away where
(12:16):
all they do is sell rocks Itreat myself.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, that's good, whatever it takes, right?
What about meltdowns?
Do you have any issues there?
Some autistic people havemeltdowns, some don't.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I'm still learning a bit more exactly what a meltdown
is, but my understanding ofwhat happens with me is I have a
heat pad on the floor and soI'll just lie on the heat pad
until I know my head stopsspinning.
It triggers the crunk pain aswell.
I require solitude andstillness is what kind of works
(12:55):
for sometimes four to 12 hours.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Sure, now what about food?
I know a lot of people haveissues with certain food
textures.
They don't like it, they can'teat it.
They have to find somethingthat's different that they can
like.
How does that affect you?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I don't know, not really, I can't say it.
There's a couple of foodss thatproduce disgust.
I think it's in the normalrange.
It's nothing like toooutstanding.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
That's really good.
Now you said that you're tryingto move on from the modeling
and get more into the world ofcharity and nonprofits.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, primarily what I do.
I got connected with a firmspecialized in nonprofit
accounting.
I've been working there withthem for over a decade, have
some private clients of my ownin the nonprofit world and
started really utilizing AIquite a bit to really reduce my
workload down.
(13:57):
I started really noticing howAI can really help nonprofits
bridge a lot of gaps and helpwith the grant management and
grant writing and essentiallythat portion of every nonprofit
that they have to go to.
So that's really I would saythat's become my area of
(14:19):
specialty and interest.
Many reasons and I think thesimplest one is I see it very
much as leveling the playingfield and if we're going to
bring it into autism and how itrelates, for autism is the whole
social masking and scriptingprocess is very labor intensive
and requires immense amount ofemotional energy.
(14:41):
For me, when I can program an AIto write me an email in a way
that it gets better over time, Idon't have to think about how I
need to respond.
I don't have to think aboutwhat's socially normal.
I don't have to think about theemotions that go into it and
(15:02):
what's expected of me.
The AI does that for me.
It removes what I find to bewith my brain will go crazy and
think of all of these details,all the stuff that's irrelevant.
(15:23):
But when I'm just able to geton my phone and say, hey, jimmy
emailed me and they wantfinancial reports for this day
and I can't get them by thisdate, can you write a response?
And just having AI do that andlooking at that response, a
response.
And just having AI do that andlooking at that response, I'm
like okay, serviceable, good offFor everybody and for all
(15:44):
humans.
I think that's a verybeneficial thing.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Sure, that makes total sense.
Now, what about friends?
Since you've been trying toexpand a little bit, have you
come out of your shell, or doyou still have a small circle of
friends and keep it very closeto what you feel comfortable
with?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Very small circle, even though people think
otherwise.
It's really, I would say.
My girlfriend, who I've beenwith for 14 years now yeah, so
my gal, we've been together 14,could be 15 in August.
I can't believe how time flies,but it's amazing.
(16:26):
She's wonderful.
And my brother, dan, my dad,maybe a little bit sometimes,
colin, but really that's thesocial circle and I have some
friends too.
Social circle and I have somefriends too.
I was just talking to my friendAndy today, but he's somebody I
(16:48):
probably speak with.
I'm talking to him more now,but maybe three to three to six
times a year over the phone andhe's in Rhode Island.
But I would say, yeah,friendship circle is pretty
small.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah, I get that Completely understand all.
Yeah, I get that Completelyunderstand.
Now, what about your girlfriend?
Did she know before you gottogether that you might have
been autistic, or was it afteryou got together that the autism
came about?
Can you expand on that a littlebit?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
She knew I was very introverted and different and we
both in involved in themodeling industry and so I think
she she liked it initially andit was like something that I
think it may be it was more of amiddle of the bell curve type
(17:36):
of relationship, that it wouldhave been noticed sooner, but it
was such like a relief fromsomebody who doesn't really care
about social status, isn't tooconcerned with what people think
about them, almost oblivious toit, and so I think she liked
that.
So it fell under the radar andher father is highly introverted
(17:56):
, so I think that played into itas well and we were in that
time in our lives building ourcareer.
I think she knew what wasdifferent.
We didn't really have words forher and I think around the time
my brother and I were talkingabout this stuff and I ran it by
her and I forget if I ran it byher exactly or if she mentioned
(18:18):
it to me, but the generalreaction was like, yeah, it
sounded about right okay, yeah,that's great, great attitude to
have.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Now, did you ever get truly diagnosed, or did you
just believe that you were andjust went self-diagnosed?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
um, I just assumed and I'm fine with that, it's.
I think the main reason why Iwon't seek a diagnosis is
because I've heard that therethere are some instances where
it can be classified as as adisability and eventually it can
hurt you in some capacity inwork and other professional
(18:58):
fields.
I don't know how I really feelabout that.
Still, it's still new for meand I wonder what would I get
out of?
Speaker 1 (19:08):
it If I did?
Yeah, I totally understand thatcompletely.
How long have you consideredyourself autistic?
Maybe?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
thinking about it for about three years and then
consider myself probably a yearand a half where I was like,
yeah, it just fits.
And now it's gotten to thepoint where I'm comfortable
telling my gal it's like, allright, I have to de-stim, which
is pretty much me pacing in acircle tossing this rock in my
hand repeatedly for anywherefrom 30 minutes to three hours.
(19:39):
I don't know why I need to, Ijust know it's what happens and
just how I am.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, so basically you're creating your own comfort
zone.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, very repetitive .
It's what drew me into theaccounting field as well, is
it's very repetitive high focuswork, and I know Chase Bank has
a program where they'reemploying autistic folks to do
this kind of work.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah.
So what's your goals now?
Where do you see yourself inthree, say five years from now?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
It depends on what happens, given the political
climate and everything that'shappened happened there too.
Yeah, for myself, I really wantto continue to hone into my
work with nonprofits.
I love it.
I enjoy it.
I've learned a lot about thenonprofit sector and I view it
(20:38):
very much as an essential waythat we can fix the problems of
our world.
And I see the business sectorproviding value in certain areas
, the government in other areasand the nonprofit world in
another.
And I really enjoy and can seeAI as this leveling of the
playing field type of tech inways in which it can allow
(21:00):
people with a good work ethic, agood idea, and it doesn't.
It matters less the backgroundthat you came from and the
relationships that you have,because a lot of times, this
tech can replace a lawyer.
My dad's a lawyer.
I can go call him for legaladvice.
That's an immense privilege.
(21:20):
But now I can use AI to help meread a contract.
I can use AI to help me write acontract, and sure, it's not
perfect, but a lot of times, ifyou don't have the resource and
that's all you have, it's a hellof a lot better than nothing at
all.
You can learn how to do SEO onyour website.
(21:43):
On it.
You can have it write the grantapplication for you.
Even if English isn't yourfirst language, you can write
the thing verbally in yournative tongue, just by speaking
into it, and then you can have agrant application produced in
English.
So I think it's going to helpremove a lot of gatekeeper
professions and it's going toallow more access to opportunity
(22:05):
, but in the same token it'salso going to condense control
and power in hands of basicallythe people who learn how to use
it.
It's got that kind of positiveand negative and the short is
spend some time every day tolearn how to use it?
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
Change is not always bad.
Now, what would you like totell our listeners that you
think is important for them tohear about what you're doing?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I think really I'd like to reach somebody in my
shoes 20 years ago just say takeyour time, it does get better.
In the same token, I'm glad welive in a world where we can now
talk about this openly, becauseI'm not sure I would have
followed the same path if Ireally, if podcasts were out and
this information was out when Iwas in my young 20s, I wouldn't
(22:54):
have gone through this immenseamount of pain, just this fog of
just not understanding how thesocial component works.
And I would say if I can hitone thing that would resonate
with people, it's at that youngage.
Young age, it's that socialconfusion fog, and that was big
(23:22):
for me because I think I was.
I'm somewhere in the spectrumwhere it's like I know enough
when something's not going notright socially right, I know,
but I don't know what it is andand be yourself, be open and
learn what works for you.
And I'd probably encourageeverybody to work as a
(23:43):
contractor or a business owner.
As a young age, with this too,I couldn't imagine being an
employee.
I couldn't imagine being anemployee, and that's something
too like a big part of myjourney.
That perhaps is that I missedis I very rarely was an employee
for any of these periods.
It was always contractor-basedwork.
Twofold, I'd say I'veencouraged young people to
(24:05):
consider contractor or businessowner types of ways to earn a
living, to support a living, andthen I'd encourage the
employment sector to providemore accommodations and
understand the value that theycan extract from neurodiverse
funding.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yeah, now you brought something up that I definitely
want to ask.
Of course, everything is 20-20.
When you're looking back, it'sperfect, you see it, yeah, yeah.
When you look back, you canalways say, oh, I should have
done this or I should have donethat.
Is there anything that you lookback on now that you would
change?
You would say I should havedone this instead of this, or I
(24:43):
should have done that, or areyou happy with the journey that
you've taken to get where youare now?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I think it's one of those things where it's more I
wish I would have done this soonand that's what goes on in my
brain, where I'm like I wish Iwould have reached out my hand
sooner to introduce myself topeople.
I wish I would have learned howto open myself up to connection
(25:12):
sooner.
That's a big part of my journeyand I think, too, I wish I
would have noticed the alcoholuse in particular sooner and how
I was using that to cope withall of these feelings that
constantly came up.
I even attended some AlcoholicsAnonymous meeting later on in
life and this was basicallymaybe a year or two before
(25:35):
thinking about autism, and Inoticed a lot of similarities
there.
But in the end, the truth is, Istarted noticing some really
key differences too that werereally big, like the being able
to stop component, like I wasalways able to stop even though
it caused wreckage.
I was was like okay, that's it,I'm done, it was fine, and
(25:59):
that's where the journey shiftedquite a bit.
So I put that out there too,because I think that some of the
reading that I've done, some ofthe listening that I've done
with other folks who areautistic or self-identify as
such, also talk about alcoholand how it shows up.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, that's a great message.
This has been a greatconversation, great information.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to come on.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah, thanks, tony, appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Thanks for having me.
It's been my pleasure.
Thanks again, thanks again.
Thanks for taking the time outof your busy schedule to listen
to our show today.
We hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as we enjoyed bringing it
to you.
If you know anyone that wouldlike to tell us their story,
(26:51):
send them to TonyMantorcomContact then they can give us
their information so one daythey may be a guest on our show.
One more thing we ask telleveryone everywhere about why
not me, the world, theconversations we're having and
(27:12):
the inspiration our guests giveto everyone everywhere that you
are not alone in this world.
Welcome to why Not Me , the World Podcast, hosted by
Tony Mantor, broadcasting fromMusic City, usa, nashville,
tennessee.
Join us as our guests tell ustheir stories.
Some will make you laugh, somewill make you cry.
Their stories Some will makeyou laugh, some will make you
(00:28):
cry.
Real life people who willinspire and show that you are
not alone in this world.
Hopefully, you gain moreawareness, acceptance and a
better understanding for autismaround the World.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
(00:53):
Welcome to why Not Me, theWorld.
Joining us today is StephenWaddell.
He's a model and a bloggerspecializing in writing about
his health and wellness.
He joins us today to discusshis experiences with autism and
how it has impacted his life'sjourney, as well as his
strategies for managing it andhis career choices.
(01:15):
He has a unique approach andwill undoubtedly share valuable
insights with us.
Thanks for coming on.
Yeah, no, for sure, man.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So if you would give us a little information about
yourself, what sparked that wasreally my brother and my
brother's wife and so she'sinvolved with she's getting,
she's involved in getting a PhDand I hope I don't butcher it
what exactly it is, but it's oneof those things where it's very
(01:48):
long and very niche, butessentially it's in that world
where she studies this kind ofstuff.
Growing up I always knew I wasmaybe a bit of an odd duck,
different, very introverted,very comfortable being alone.
Then later on in life mybrother's wife hope she started
studying this and startedtalking to my brother about and
(02:09):
said your behaviors match upwith this.
And then one thing led toanother and I started calling my
brother on long drives and westarted talking about this stuff
and I was like you know, I dothat and I do that, and yeah, I
do that, that's called stimmingand I was like, oh, there's a
(02:31):
word for it.
I was like that's interesting.
I just thought I was weird,there's that.
And then we started talkingabout social masking and that's
where it really settled in forme in a big way, because that's
always been a big hurdle of mineis the whole social component.
I'm a little bit fuzzy now andI put on some weight in
(02:54):
accounting season, but mybackground ended up being in the
modeling industry and I endedup building my career doing
stuff in the front end of themodeling industry a little bit
after I basically lost a bunchof weight after a bad accident
which we can talk about at somepoint.
If it's interesting, I'm openabout it Lost a bunch of weight,
(03:15):
ended up working in themodeling industry and then ended
up working in the back end ofthe modeling industry
Entertaining right, where beingsocial is very important, and
also in the modeling world,understanding social etiquette
becomes pretty important too interms of kind of income, drivers
(03:37):
, right.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So how did you approach that?
Because social is sometimesvery tough for an autistic
person.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
So it was a very interesting world to be in and I
was almost forced to have tolearn step by step do this, do
not do this, build those scriptsas a way to fit in.
It's at the point now where it'salmost like I might have to
learn how to unmask, where it'salmost like I might have to
learn how to unmask because it'sbeen 15 years of doing the same
(04:10):
kind of thing like over andover again.
And it's really like the peoplewho know me well and see me a
lot privately understand thatwhat gets presented out to the
world ends up quite frequentlylooking like somebody who might
(04:31):
have been like the captain ofthe baseball team or something
like that, which is a verycommon assumption people have.
But the person I actually amvery quiet, very introverted,
lots of niche tastes, verypeculiar at times, picky with
some things, not with others,odd sense of humor, all that
(04:52):
kind of stuff.
And I think if we're talkingabout it in terms of the
spectrum and you can see hereone of my stimming objects right
here which is rocks In terms ofthe spectrum, I'm probably less
openly showing about it In mycollege years or high school.
People might have thought itthen, but 15, 20 years of
(05:14):
masking.
In a very social industry whereyou have to appear like you're
that part of the party, you tendto learn certain things that
people are looking for.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, that's pretty understanding there.
What type of modeling did youdo?
Did it require a lot of changesin clothes?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
All modeling does.
I didn't do a ton of it, butmainly stuff in suits.
You can call it bridal, thatkind of thing.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Did you have any issues with texture of clothes?
I know some autistic peoplewill have issues with texture of
clothes.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I don't per se.
I happen to really like wooland this sweater is not a wool
one, but I have a wool sweater Ilike wearing.
That's a little bit more, andthis goes back to the masking
and I can actually show you.
And this goes back to themasking and I can actually show
you.
This is one of the woolsweaters that I like wearing,
but it looks like a Christmassweater, and so when you're
(06:11):
appearing on business meetingsand Zooms and I just was on one
you can only get away with thatfor a few weeks out of the year.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
With all of this happening, how did you come out
of your shell?
You're introverted.
You was doing a lot of masking.
Did you have to force yourselfto get that unmasking, so to
speak?
How did you handle that?
How did you approach it?
Forced?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
it 100%, forced, brutal force.
And that really happened afterI had a life-changing accident
when I was 21,.
Me and a couple of friends wereout drinking and I'll cut the
story kind of short on this partbecause it relates, but it's
not why we're here.
But essentially I ended uptripping and falling on the
(06:59):
third rail of the New Yorksubway after just nights out
drinking and I think that reallyplayed a role in the
socialization and just if it's asocial event, I just need
copious amounts of alcohol tofeel normal, just would use that
.
And then after that accidenthappened, I have an epiphany.
I was just really happy to bealive.
(07:22):
I was like okay, this arm isgoing to show you on Zoom so you
can see the scar on this arm.
That's where I hit the rail.
The electricity came out a fewspots up my spine.
I have lots of scar tissue onthe inside, a couple spots out
on my legs, out my spine.
So I have lots of scar tissueon the inside, a couple spots
out on my legs and just didsomething to me where I was like
(07:44):
I need to figure out how toparticipate in life.
I need to figure out how to dothis.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
What did you do to change so that you could move
forward in a different direction?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
So I would just force myself to learn how to have a
conversation with people, whichwas just the beginning.
Stages were rough because Iwould just go out to bars and
I'd ask people the same questionover and over again what did
you think of the game last night?
Did you see the game last night?
What did you like about thegame last night?
But it was just to force it andI would say the interesting
(08:17):
thing about that is the vastmajority of people were
relatively kind.
That's great to hear.
I would say 10% of the peoplejust got a bad attitude about it
and that was rough to deal with.
So that kind of sparkedsomething in me.
And then I was prettyoverweight at the time too.
I was about 320 pounds andbasically through this process
(08:41):
of about a year and a half Istumbled into an accidental
Atkins diet because the doctorstold me I needed to eat a lot of
protein to regrow muscle massand I lost a lot of weight and I
ended up like one of thosemoments where they're like you
can actually model and I endedup doing a little bit of that.
But I've got this big scar onmy arm and I'm almost six foot
(09:04):
five, which in the modelingworld is not a profitable thing
as a male.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, that does seem tall for a model.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah, you're too tall , so you want to be between five
, 11 and a half and six to maybesix, three.
Otherwise you don't get thesample sizes of the clothing and
it's a business just likeanything else.
It's a little bit different nowbecause your influence matters
with social media and stuff thatadd that component to it, but
nonetheless it's still anindustry and then, being in that
(09:32):
industry, you were forced verymuch to understand what's
happening socially, very much tounderstand what's happening
socially.
For me it's almost like I wasable to turn a negative into a
positive because I was forced tobreak everything down and
forced to really understandthings.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Did that help you move forward with that industry?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
What eventually gave me staying power in the industry
were really two things.
I was able to understand theanalytical side of the business,
which very few people whounderstand the modeling world
and the creative aspects do, andthat translates well into the
nonprofit sector as well, whichis primarily where I am living
(10:16):
now in this day and age.
The second part to it is you endup dealing with a lot of hard
to deal with people.
Here's where we could touch ona little bit of mental illness
as well.
So I became a little bit of thenarcissist rambler, mainly
because and I've noticed thisand as I've gone through the
(10:38):
late diagnosis and everythingand I've noticed this and as
I've gone through the latediagnosis and everything that us
autistic folks and I thinkwe're very sensitive to
truthfulness, so typically thatpersonality type it's called NPD
(11:02):
.
I think they play around withthe truth in ways that I think
folks who are normalneurotypical don't pick up on it
right away until it's too late.
But it almost became a successfor me in this industry of being
able to identify this and alsonot just that deal with these
folks to a profitable result forall, entities included.
I can't get into too manyspecifics with it, because if
NDA is in this kind of thing,but we work with large companies
, publicly traded ones, and justit's this kind of thing, but we
work with large companies,publicly traded ones.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
What about sensory overload?
Did you have any instanceswhere that happened to you
during all the things that youwas doing in your daily life?
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Every day.
I still go through it andthat's one of the dangers of, I
think, my job and one of thereasons why I'm continuing to
move into the nonprofit sectorand start doing that consciously
away from the modeling sector.
Because you can see, I've gotone of my stem rocks in my hand.
I would say a lot of pacing andcircles and some sort of object
(11:53):
like this.
And then I have another onehere, similar rock.
But I found I like thedifferent sensation in my hand,
Like sometimes I want thisbecause it's an even weight in
my hand and then sometimes Iwant this because it will give
me a different sensor each timebecause it doesn't always land
the same way.
I get them from a rock storethat's five minutes away where
(12:16):
all they do is sell rocks Itreat myself.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, that's good, whatever it takes, right?
What about meltdowns?
Do you have any issues there?
Some autistic people havemeltdowns, some don't.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I'm still learning a bit more exactly what a meltdown
is, but my understanding ofwhat happens with me is I have a
heat pad on the floor and soI'll just lie on the heat pad
until I know my head stopsspinning.
It triggers the crunk pain aswell.
I require solitude andstillness is what kind of works
(12:55):
for sometimes four to 12 hours.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Sure, now what about food?
I know a lot of people haveissues with certain food
textures.
They don't like it, they can'teat it.
They have to find somethingthat's different that they can
like.
How does that affect you?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I don't know, not really, I can't say it.
There's a couple of foodss thatproduce disgust.
I think it's in the normalrange.
It's nothing like toooutstanding.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
That's really good.
Now you said that you're tryingto move on from the modeling
and get more into the world ofcharity and nonprofits.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, primarily what I do.
I got connected with a firmspecialized in nonprofit
accounting.
I've been working there withthem for over a decade, have
some private clients of my ownin the nonprofit world and
started really utilizing AIquite a bit to really reduce my
workload down.
(13:57):
I started really noticing howAI can really help nonprofits
bridge a lot of gaps and helpwith the grant management and
grant writing and essentiallythat portion of every nonprofit
that they have to go to.
So that's really I would saythat's become my area of
(14:19):
specialty and interest.
Many reasons and I think thesimplest one is I see it very
much as leveling the playingfield and if we're going to
bring it into autism and how itrelates, for autism is the whole
social masking and scriptingprocess is very labor intensive
and requires immense amount ofemotional energy.
(14:41):
For me, when I can program an AIto write me an email in a way
that it gets better over time, Idon't have to think about how I
need to respond.
I don't have to think aboutwhat's socially normal.
I don't have to think about theemotions that go into it and
(15:02):
what's expected of me.
The AI does that for me.
It removes what I find to bewith my brain will go crazy and
think of all of these details,all the stuff that's irrelevant.
(15:23):
But when I'm just able to geton my phone and say, hey, jimmy
emailed me and they wantfinancial reports for this day
and I can't get them by thisdate, can you write a response?
And just having AI do that andlooking at that response, a
response.
And just having AI do that andlooking at that response, I'm
like okay, serviceable, good offFor everybody and for all
(15:44):
humans.
I think that's a verybeneficial thing.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Sure, that makes total sense.
Now, what about friends?
Since you've been trying toexpand a little bit, have you
come out of your shell, or doyou still have a small circle of
friends and keep it very closeto what you feel comfortable
with?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Very small circle, even though people think
otherwise.
It's really, I would say.
My girlfriend, who I've beenwith for 14 years now yeah, so
my gal, we've been together 14,could be 15 in August.
I can't believe how time flies,but it's amazing.
(16:26):
She's wonderful.
And my brother, dan, my dad,maybe a little bit sometimes,
colin, but really that's thesocial circle and I have some
friends too.
Social circle and I have somefriends too.
I was just talking to my friendAndy today, but he's somebody I
(16:48):
probably speak with.
I'm talking to him more now,but maybe three to three to six
times a year over the phone andhe's in Rhode Island.
But I would say, yeah,friendship circle is pretty
small.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah, I get that Completely understand all.
Yeah, I get that Completelyunderstand.
Now, what about your girlfriend?
Did she know before you gottogether that you might have
been autistic, or was it afteryou got together that the autism
came about?
Can you expand on that a littlebit?
Speaker 2 (17:14):
She knew I was very introverted and different and we
both in involved in themodeling industry and so I think
she she liked it initially andit was like something that I
think it may be it was more of amiddle of the bell curve type
(17:36):
of relationship, that it wouldhave been noticed sooner, but it
was such like a relief fromsomebody who doesn't really care
about social status, isn't tooconcerned with what people think
about them, almost oblivious toit, and so I think she liked
that.
So it fell under the radar andher father is highly introverted
(17:56):
, so I think that played into itas well and we were in that
time in our lives building ourcareer.
I think she knew what wasdifferent.
We didn't really have words forher and I think around the time
my brother and I were talkingabout this stuff and I ran it by
her and I forget if I ran it byher exactly or if she mentioned
(18:18):
it to me, but the generalreaction was like, yeah, it
sounded about right okay, yeah,that's great, great attitude to
have.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Now, did you ever get truly diagnosed, or did you
just believe that you were andjust went self-diagnosed?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
um, I just assumed and I'm fine with that, it's.
I think the main reason why Iwon't seek a diagnosis is
because I've heard that therethere are some instances where
it can be classified as as adisability and eventually it can
hurt you in some capacity inwork and other professional
(18:58):
fields.
I don't know how I really feelabout that.
Still, it's still new for meand I wonder what would I get
out of?
Speaker 1 (19:08):
it If I did?
Yeah, I totally understand thatcompletely.
How long have you consideredyourself autistic?
Maybe?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
thinking about it for about three years and then
consider myself probably a yearand a half where I was like,
yeah, it just fits.
And now it's gotten to thepoint where I'm comfortable
telling my gal it's like, allright, I have to de-stim, which
is pretty much me pacing in acircle tossing this rock in my
hand repeatedly for anywherefrom 30 minutes to three hours.
(19:39):
I don't know why I need to, Ijust know it's what happens and
just how I am.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, so basically you're creating your own comfort
zone.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, very repetitive .
It's what drew me into theaccounting field as well, is
it's very repetitive high focuswork, and I know Chase Bank has
a program where they'reemploying autistic folks to do
this kind of work.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah.
So what's your goals now?
Where do you see yourself inthree, say five years from now?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
It depends on what happens, given the political
climate and everything that'shappened happened there too.
Yeah, for myself, I really wantto continue to hone into my
work with nonprofits.
I love it.
I enjoy it.
I've learned a lot about thenonprofit sector and I view it
(20:38):
very much as an essential waythat we can fix the problems of
our world.
And I see the business sectorproviding value in certain areas
, the government in other areasand the nonprofit world in
another.
And I really enjoy and can seeAI as this leveling of the
playing field type of tech inways in which it can allow
(21:00):
people with a good work ethic, agood idea, and it doesn't.
It matters less the backgroundthat you came from and the
relationships that you have,because a lot of times, this
tech can replace a lawyer.
My dad's a lawyer.
I can go call him for legaladvice.
That's an immense privilege.
(21:20):
But now I can use AI to help meread a contract.
I can use AI to help me write acontract, and sure, it's not
perfect, but a lot of times, ifyou don't have the resource and
that's all you have, it's a hellof a lot better than nothing at
all.
You can learn how to do SEO onyour website.
(21:43):
On it.
You can have it write the grantapplication for you.
Even if English isn't yourfirst language, you can write
the thing verbally in yournative tongue, just by speaking
into it, and then you can have agrant application produced in
English.
So I think it's going to helpremove a lot of gatekeeper
professions and it's going toallow more access to opportunity
(22:05):
, but in the same token it'salso going to condense control
and power in hands of basicallythe people who learn how to use
it.
It's got that kind of positiveand negative and the short is
spend some time every day tolearn how to use it?
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
Change is not always bad.
Now, what would you like totell our listeners that you
think is important for them tohear about what you're doing?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I think really I'd like to reach somebody in my
shoes 20 years ago just say takeyour time, it does get better.
In the same token, I'm glad welive in a world where we can now
talk about this openly, becauseI'm not sure I would have
followed the same path if Ireally, if podcasts were out and
this information was out when Iwas in my young 20s, I wouldn't
(22:54):
have gone through this immenseamount of pain, just this fog of
just not understanding how thesocial component works.
And I would say if I can hitone thing that would resonate
with people, it's at that youngage.
Young age, it's that socialconfusion fog, and that was big
(23:22):
for me because I think I was.
I'm somewhere in the spectrumwhere it's like I know enough
when something's not going notright socially right, I know,
but I don't know what it is andand be yourself, be open and
learn what works for you.
And I'd probably encourageeverybody to work as a
(23:43):
contractor or a business owner.
As a young age, with this too,I couldn't imagine being an
employee.
I couldn't imagine being anemployee, and that's something
too like a big part of myjourney.
That perhaps is that I missedis I very rarely was an employee
for any of these periods.
It was always contractor-basedwork.
Twofold, I'd say I'veencouraged young people to
(24:05):
consider contractor or businessowner types of ways to earn a
living, to support a living, andthen I'd encourage the
employment sector to providemore accommodations and
understand the value that theycan extract from neurodiverse
funding.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yeah, now you brought something up that I definitely
want to ask.
Of course, everything is 20-20.
When you're looking back, it'sperfect, you see it, yeah, yeah.
When you look back, you canalways say, oh, I should have
done this or I should have donethat.
Is there anything that you lookback on now that you would
change?
You would say I should havedone this instead of this, or I
(24:43):
should have done that, or areyou happy with the journey that
you've taken to get where youare now?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I think it's one of those things where it's more I
wish I would have done this soonand that's what goes on in my
brain, where I'm like I wish Iwould have reached out my hand
sooner to introduce myself topeople.
I wish I would have learned howto open myself up to connection
(25:12):
sooner.
That's a big part of my journeyand I think, too, I wish I
would have noticed the alcoholuse in particular sooner and how
I was using that to cope withall of these feelings that
constantly came up.
I even attended some AlcoholicsAnonymous meeting later on in
life and this was basicallymaybe a year or two before
(25:35):
thinking about autism, and Inoticed a lot of similarities
there.
But in the end, the truth is, Istarted noticing some really
key differences too that werereally big, like the being able
to stop component, like I wasalways able to stop even though
it caused wreckage.
I was was like okay, that's it,I'm done, it was fine, and
(25:59):
that's where the journey shiftedquite a bit.
So I put that out there too,because I think that some of the
reading that I've done, some ofthe listening that I've done
with other folks who areautistic or self-identify as
such, also talk about alcoholand how it shows up.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
Yeah, that's a great message.
This has been a greatconversation, great information.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to come on.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah, thanks, tony, appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Thanks for having me.
It's been my pleasure.
Thanks again, thanks again.
Thanks for taking the time outof your busy schedule to listen
to our show today.
We hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as we enjoyed bringing it
to you.
If you know anyone that wouldlike to tell us their story,
(26:51):
send them to TonyMantorcomContact then they can give us
their information so one daythey may be a guest on our show.
One more thing we ask telleveryone everywhere about why
not me, the world, theconversations we're having and
(27:12):
the inspiration our guests giveto everyone everywhere that you
are not alone in this world.
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