February 4, 2025 • 32 mins
Discover the extraordinary journey of Dave Pomeroy, a quintessential figure in the music industry, as he reveals how a British military upbringing and an expired visa ultimately led him to the heart of Nashville's vibrant music scene.
With anecdotes that include spontaneously jamming with legends like Sleepy LaBeef and witnessing Neil Young in casual settings, Dave's story is a testament to the unpredictable and exhilarating path of a musician.
Join us as we explore his captivating transformation from a hopeful rock star in London to a pivotal player in Nashville's dynamic music community.
As we sit down with Dave, he recounts the serendipitous moments and influential collaborations that have defined his career, including work with iconic names like Keith Whitley, Trisha Yearwood, and Emmylou Harris.
Learn how Dave's connections with industry greats, such as Chet Atkins, have contributed to his creative journey and the projects that stand out as milestones in his illustrious career.
This episode also uncovers Dave's leadership role in the Nashville Musicians Union, where he's at the forefront of advocating for musicians' rights and fostering unity across the nation's major music hubs.
The conversation continues with an insightful look at Nashville's evolving music scene, a place where diverse genres coexist and opportunities for musicians abound.
Dave shares his vision for balancing the city's booming tourism with authentic music experiences, highlighting the importance of independent venues and the recognition of indie artists by major labels.
Through Dave's personal stories and reflections, experience the essence of Nashville's unique music community, the joy of live performances, and the inspiring pursuit of passion that defines a successful music career.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
My career in the entertainment industry has
enabled me to work with adiverse range of talent.
Through my years of experience,I've recognized two essential
aspects.
Industry professionals, whetherfamous stars or
behind-the-scenes staff, havefascinating stories to tell.
Secondly, audiences are eagerto listen to these stories,
(00:36):
which offer a glimpse into theirlives and the evolution of
their life stories.
This podcast aims to sharethese narratives, providing
information on how they evolvedinto their chosen career.
We will delve into theirjourney to stardom, discuss
their struggles and successesand hear from people who helped
them achieve their goals.
Get ready for intriguingbehind-the-scenes stories and
(00:58):
insights into the fascinatingworld of entertainment.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantour.
Welcome to Almost LiveNashville.
Today's guest has such a greatcareer.
He has performed with so manystars.
Now he's president of the localunion right here in Nashville.
Dave Pomeroy is our guest todayand it's great to have him here
(01:20):
.
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Absolutely my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
This may date you a little bit, but how long have
you been here in Nashville?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I moved to Nashville on October 5th 1977.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
1977.
Wow, that's a while ago.
So what prompted you to makethe move to Nashville?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Well, I was living in London, England.
I'd lived there for a year.
I was a military kid, so wetraveled around a lot, including
some years in England when Iwas very young, which gave me a
two-year head start on theBeatles, which is probably why
I'm a musician and my brotherand sister are lawyers.
After two years of college atUniversity of Virginia, I
started playing in a band andwas working a lot in this kind
(02:01):
of folk acoustic trio.
I had an opportunity to go toEurope because my dad was
stationed at NATO headquartersin Belgium.
So I showed up in Belgium,announced that I'd quit college
and wanted to go to London to bea rock star, and after they
pulled my dad out of the ceilinga couple months later, he gave
me a ride to London and I pickedup a music paper, got an
audition the next day, got thegig, played my first show and
(02:24):
then on the following Mondaywent applied for a work permit,
which I got, and so I lived inEngland, London, England, for a
year, from September 76 toSeptember 77.
And it was a great lifeexperience, a great musical
experience.
But my visa ran out and it wastime to go back to the States.
So I thought, well, after this,New York, LA or Nashville and I
don't know anybody in New York,I don't know anybody in LA and
(02:46):
this singer, Mary Bomar, who Ihad worked with in this trio at
Charlottesville, had moved toNashville and had gotten a
publishing deal with Roger Cookand Ralph Murphy, Picklewick
Music.
And so I thought, well, I'lltry Nashville first and check it
out for a couple weeks.
And it's been 46 years, Hard tobelieve.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, it definitely is amazing how time flies, yeah,
so once you moved to Nashville,was it what you expected?
And then what transpired to getyou to where you are today?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Well, I don't know if it was what I was expecting,
other than I just I didn't knowmuch about country music.
I didn't know much about singersongwriters, as opposed to just
artists, you know, and bands.
I was a band guy, but the veryfirst show that I saw was a
great songwriter named DaveOlney and he had a full band and
it was not anything like Iexpected and that was
(03:36):
encouraging.
I also saw Neil Young hangingout in a bar with some guys he
was working in the studio withand I was pretty impressed by
that.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I was here about three, four weeks and realized
that I either had to get a jobor get a gig, and I wasn't going
to get a gig in town right away, because those were the days
where, you know, you had studiomusicians and road musicians and
they were very different.
Right, I literally put up acouple of homemade business
cards and got a call a coupledays later from a drummer named
Cleet Chapman, who played withan artist named Sleepy LaBeef.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Interesting guy, from Arkansas originally, who was
working primarily in the Bostonarea at the time, and what I
didn't realize was that he wasliterally just driving through
Nashville and his bass player, Iguess, jumped off the out of
the motorhome and so I jumped inthe motor home and we drove
straight up to Boston and werethere for about a year without
ever coming back to Nashville.
Wow, a great musical experience.
(04:31):
Sleepy was, one of hisnicknames was the human jukebox,
because he knew thousands ofsongs and no charts, no
rehearsals, just follow.
And he was a big old guy and ifI wasn't, if I was supposed to
be playing 4-4 bass instead of2-4, he would glare at me and
start playing the bass line Ishould be playing and I would
jump on it.
So I learned a whole lot fromhim.
(04:51):
He was a classic example ofwhat they now call Americana
music, where it was a mixture.
You know, in one set he wouldstring these medleys together 45
minutes long, sometimes onesong into another without breaks
, where he'd go from Johnny Cashto Ernest Tubb, to Bo Diddley,
to Muddy Waters, to Nelson, to apolka song and back again.
(05:11):
And you just, it was great eartraining and learning how to
watch the back of a guitar neckand figure out what might be
happening next, and it was areally good experience, and he
and I remained close over theyears and my son and I actually
made a little documentary filmabout him in 2012 called Sleepy
LeBeef Rides.
Again, he's a reallyinteresting guy.
I learned a lot from him, but Ihad to get back to town, so I
(05:34):
came back and did day jobs for alittle while, sold
encyclopedias door to door andworked at a lumber yard briefly,
and then I stumbled onto anopportunity to play with Guy
Clark, which immediately led toplaying at the same time with
Billy Joe Shaver, because theywere at the time, sharing a band
.
Those guys were especially.
(05:54):
Guy was my kind of speed bumpon the way to figuring out how
to be employable in Nashville,because I was still all about
bass solos and high energy rockand roll and Sleepy would give
me 20.
Once he figured out I'd play abass solo, he'd give me 20 solos
a night.
And suddenly I'm sitting in abasement with Guy Clark hearing
these songs and you just kind ofgo wow, do you even need bass?
(06:14):
Guy had a way of writing thesevery simple songs that had
incredibly deep meaning, and soit was I call it my speed bump
on the way to Don Williams,which I managed to land a gig
with Don in 1980.
That was a game changer for me.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Now you've got a resume of great singers you've
either recorded with or been onthe road with.
So you was with Don for themost of it.
But how did those others helpyou get into the studio and
start really moving forwards towhat you was going to do for
your career?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I was with Don full-time for 14 years.
He was very encouraging to us.
Danny Flowers, our guitarplayer, had written the song
Tulsa Time for Don, which was ahuge hit.
Of course Eric Clapton coveredit, which made it even bigger.
So Don did what very fewartists would ever do and went
to his label, mca, and said I'vegot a really good band.
I think you should give them arecord deal.
(07:07):
And so two years after I joinedhis band, we were in the studio
making a record and Biff Watsonand I wrote an instrumental
kind of a funk tune, and Donliked it and it made our record
somehow, and so I felt verygratified.
But it still took quite a fewmore years before I really began
to understand recording.
And so, starting in about 85, Istarted playing on Don's
(07:29):
Records and that was a greateducation.
And then his co-producer, garthFundus, started branching out,
and one of the first projects hedid was the final two albums
with Keith Whitley.
I was playing more or less thekind of things that had been
done before on Don's Records alot of one, five, very simple
stuff.
With Keith.
He had a very unique voice.
Garth did a really interestingthing because he was really from
(07:51):
the bluegrass world.
But Garth convinced him tolower his keys by about a step
and a half and it took him to awhole other register in his
voice and I had this electricstand-up bass that I had a guy
make for me and mostly just gotweird looks from people who
didn't understand what it was.
Yeah, I love that bass Reallyfit Keith's voice.
(08:12):
I ended up playing that onalmost that whole record called
Don't Close your Eyes, and asong called I'm no Stranger to
the Rain became a number one hitand I had a big bass slide and
that just suddenly opened thedoor to a lot of other things.
But I owe Don and Garth Fundusa lot for giving me that chance.
Garth's next project was TrishaYearwood and I ended up playing
(08:33):
on Trisha's first seven albumsand then everything just started
to steamroll.
I played on Alan Jackson'sfirst three number one singles
and as one thing led to anotherand I always kept playing live
throughout all this stuff, Iwould do my own band and I
always felt like those creativethings gave you a little edge
when you went in the studio andsomebody wanted something
(08:53):
different, right, oh, you know,I was able to.
Just, you know, have one one,literally one door lead to
another.
I was doing a lot of demos withPaul Kennerly, the songwriter,
who at the time was married toEmmylou Harris, and I would go
out to the house and overdubsome things for Paul and he'd
say, oh, you know, he's British.
You know, do you fancy a cup oftea?
(09:13):
And it's like, oh, that'd begreat.
We go in the kitchen andthere's Emmylou making tea for
us, and so you know, I was wellaware of her.
I'd seen her play when I was atUVA and always loved her stuff.
And the next time she made arecord, it was the first time
that she'd made a record withouther significant other producing
it.
And her and Richard Bennettmade an album called Bluebird
and they made a deal whereRichard got to pick the drummer
(09:34):
and she got to pick the bassplayer and somehow or another,
she picked me, that's great.
And that opened a door and todifferent things.
And Richard did a record withJoel Sonnier and I was also very
involved in the NAMM show stuffwhen they would come to town
and I did several of theseall-star guitar nights and
things like that.
So I got to meet people likeJames Burton and Peter Frampton
(09:56):
and Adrian Ballou.
Suddenly I met out at Adrian'shouse doing a song with him and
Peter, a tribute to Hank Marvin,the great British guitar player
, and it was really just this,you know, evolution of one thing
leading to another.
And you know, I first met GarthBrooks when he was taking the
money at the door at theBluebird for another writer for
(10:16):
the same company, buddy Monlock,came on stage and sang a little
harmony, and so it's reallybeen amazing.
I mean, nobody's more surprisedthan me.
I get that Russell Smith was agreat guy to work with and we
wrote a couple of songs together.
And I met Larry Nectal throughJim Horn and Dwayne Eddy.
Larry Nectal and I wrote acouple of songs together and got
(10:37):
to play on his solo records andof course he was also a
wonderful bass player and hadplayed bass on Mr Tambourine man
and other things when he was inLA Right, not to mention
playing piano on Bridge OverTroubled Waters, right, right,
so you know it.
Just it's kind of I look backat that list and it looks
amazing to me too.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, that's an awesome story.
I love it, so I'm going to makeit a little bit tougher on you.
Of all the things that you'vedone, all the people you've
worked with, played with,performed with what's one of
your favorite projects that juststands out in your mind.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Wow.
Well, I think you know I'm veryI mean I'm very proud of Don.
I would think of it more almostas songs.
We did a song with Don calledOld Coyote Town.
That was a single.
That was on the album.
I believe it was on the album.
It was called Shades oh gosh, Ican't remember the name now.
But the Don stuff, the EmmylouBluebird album was huge.
The first Keith Whitley albumthat I've already spoke about,
don't Close your Eyes.
(11:35):
But a real thrill for me wasgetting to know and play with
Chet Atkins.
David Hungate, who had beenproducing Chet for some time
wonderful bass player, great guywas mowing his yard one day and
fell down the hill and brokehis ankle and decided he didn't
want to fly to Texas to do thisTV special for Chet's new album
that he had just produced.
And he recommended me to takehis place, as did Chet's manager
(11:58):
at the time, fred Cueley, andso Chet was literally like, well
, I don't know who this guy is,but you're both recommending him
.
So okay, and so I fly down toTexas.
I'd met Chet before but he hadno idea who I was.
And it was this amazing TVspecial with Earl Clue and Steve
Warner and Eric Johnson, thegreat Texas guitar player, and
Susie Boggess, and it was amagical thing and Chet was very
(12:21):
nice, very complimentary thing.
And Chet was very nice, verycomplimentary, and he said to me
afterwards hey, you know, we dothis Saturday morning breakfast
out at the Cracker Barrel onCharlotte Pike.
You're welcome to come outanytime.
And so I started going outthere and you never know, one
week it would be Mark Knopflerand the next week it would be
Goober.
You know, george Lindsay, youknow, and you just never Ray
(12:41):
Stevens, whoever.
And so I got to know Chet alittle bit and when he decided
he was going to get out and playsome gigs, he knew that I was
playing every Monday at the ExitInn.
I used to do these kind ofvariety shows called Monday
Night Madness.
And he came to see me andcalled me the next day and said,
hey, that funny song, you didsend that over.
I like that and so I, you know,with double spaced lyrics.
(13:06):
So I sent over a version of thesong that I had co-written
after the fact with a womannamed Emily Cates, that Guy
Clark had discovered called theDay the Bass Players Took Over
the World and Chet recorded itwith Tommy Emanuel as the Day
Finger Pickers Took Over theWorld and it became the title
track of his last album.
So I think that was a reallyspecial thing and I did get to
record some with Chet as well.
(13:27):
But the TV special was reallygreat and for some reason I
always seem to end up inaudiovisual things.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Well, the entertainment business has so
many different things, sothere's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
There was a show that we tried to get off the ground
that never did take off back inthe 80s called Nashville Skyline
and we recorded at the exit endkind of.
It really was, I think, thefirst of the songwriters in the
round, kind of thing, and one ofthe combinations was, you know,
guy Clark, rodney Crowell andthe very young Vince Gill, and
you know we had Russell Smithand Don Schlitz and the Kathy
(14:00):
Mateo, all these differentpeople and ended up playing with
Dickie Betts and Jimmy Hall atthe end of the day and we filmed
like 50 songs in a day.
It's hard to say one thing I'vebeen very grateful to get to do
my own projects on the side andI put out 14 records on my own,
12 records and two DVDs on myown label.
But I think really, you know,the Emmy Lou record is one that
(14:23):
I can still go back and just itseems like a dream.
One other one I would go on,that is Emmy called me a few
years later and we recorded asong with the Chieftains.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
And that was really special too.
Yeah, that was great.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
That is such a great story and what a history.
And now, all of a sudden, youbecome president of the
Nashville Union.
So how did that happen that youwound up as president of the
Nashville Union?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
So how did that happen that you wound up as
president of the NashvilleMusicians Union?
Well, it was interesting.
I joined the union right awaybecause somebody who I respected
said hey, kid, join the union.
And I found out early that itcan be really good to be under a
union contract.
We did a show with Don at GiantStadium in the Meadowlands and
I'd only been with him about sixmonths and for me, I pretty
much was ready to retire.
I thought I'd made it playingat the Meadowlands.
(15:07):
Unbeknownst to me it was filmedand unbeknownst to me it was
under a union contract.
And about a month or two later afriend called and said hey,
turn on Channel 4.
You're on TV.
And it was Casey Kasem'sAmerican Top 10, the TV version
of his radio Top 40 show.
And sure enough, don had thenumber one country single that
week Good Old Boys Like Me.
And there we were.
(15:28):
And so, man, that's great, thisis incredible.
And then I got a check, a nicecheck.
And then it aired again a monthlater because it was still the
number one single.
And I got another check and waslike, wow, I got paid three
times for one gig.
That was my first awareness ofthe union being significant.
I really first got involvedbecause they used to have, in
the old days, business agentswhose jobs seemed to be to just
(15:50):
kind of hassle people for doingstuff that didn't fit what they
were used to.
All over town there were clubswhere you played your own music
but they weren't giving you aguarantee.
It was up to you to draw acrowd and if you drew a crowd
they'd have you back and youpaid your money at the door and
they made their money at the bar.
And it was pretty organicsituation the Bluebird, douglas
Corner and this guy kept messingwith me and finally I sort of
(16:13):
you know, what do you want me todo?
Forge a contract.
And he kind of looked at melike that's not a bad idea on it
.
And finally I stood up at ameeting and I said, hey, you
know, I got two kids.
I'm trying to tell the truth,learn how to tell the truth, and
can we figure something out onthis?
Because this doesn't fit thebusiness model.
What you're asking us to dodoesn't fit, which has kind of
(16:35):
been a metaphor for everythingthat I've done since.
And so they made me head of acommittee and we wrote a very
simple bylaw that said whenyou're playing original music in
a listening room, the bandleader can be the employer, and
so we would file contracts andmade that go away.
But in the meantime that guyhad probably run off 500 or
1,000 people by being much tooaggressive.
(16:56):
So that was my first education.
And then, as I got more involvedin the recording side of things
in the early 2000s, I becamepresident of the Recording
Musicians Association, which isa subdivision of the union
representing those that work onrecording.
As I began to look at thenational picture, I could see
that we had issues that couldonly be resolved with a change
(17:16):
in leadership.
My predecessor, harold Bradley,very famous, respected musician
who I had worked with a lot,even with his older brother Owen
, who was one of the realfounders of the music row and
Harold had kind of beenpersuaded by the president, who
was from DC and had figured outthat if you keep everybody
(17:37):
fighting all the time, you canstay in power.
So he'd kind of convincedHarold that I'd been brainwashed
by Los Angeles recordingmusicians, which was not true.
So I got a little frustratedwith it and finally it was like
you know I think we need achange in leadership and so I
ran against Harold, against theadvice of some people who were
sure that it was a crazy idea,and Craig Cramp ran as secretary
(18:01):
treasurer and we much to thesurprise of everyone, in 2008,
we pretty soundly defeatedHarold and Billy Lineman, who
was a you know, harold wasinternational vice president and
Billy was a board member, andit was the first time in the
history of the AFM that nationalofficers of that stature had
been defeated at home.
It was just time for a change.
It was a generational shift.
(18:21):
A year later, the same thinghappened in New York.
Six months after that, we put,we united New York, la and
Nashville for the first time ina long time and we're able to
run a ticket of candidates.
That got the national officersout of there, right, and so you
know, it was just one of thosethings I never could have
imagined when I came here.
I just felt like we've got tohave, we've got to reinvent
(18:42):
ourselves here or we're going tobecome obsolete.
And I've been very fortunate tobe able to be in a position,
because people do look atNashville with a different eye.
We're getting stuff done thatother locals have not been able
to do.
We came up with a scale forhome recording where you could
get paid by the song and payinto your own pension, which is
something they told us we werenot allowed to do, and all we
(19:05):
had to do was create a sentencethat allowed the employer to
give the musician authority tomake the payment.
So we also came up with a wayto bill artists that are using
tracks from the records on tour,similar to when they do it on a
song in an award show and theyuse tracks from the record.
They go out on the road.
They want to do the same thing.
Well, our agreements alwayssaid that's prohibited, but we
(19:30):
came up with a way to make itlegal and fair.
We've been able to bill andcollect almost a million dollars
on that, so it's been veryinteresting.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah, I think the biggest word there is fair.
If people think that they'rebeing treated fair, then that
can overcome just about anything.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
That's a great point because to me, I talk about
respect a lot.
This is mutual respect betweenemployers and musicians.
Right, you know I work for you.
Yeah, we work hard for you, andyou treat us the way we like to
be treated To us.
It's a no-brainer, rightSituations.
It seems like the musicbusiness is portrayed as it has
to be a win-lose and forsomebody to be successful,
(20:06):
somebody else has to suffer,right, it does not have to be
that way, and I think that's whyNashville has had the staying
power that some of these othercities that only get the big
stuff or only get symphonyorchestras and the theater work,
and we have more freelancemusicians in our local, I think,
than any other local in the AFM.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Now, you just mentioned vice president of
international, and I thinkyou've just been elected to that
position, right?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Ironically, yes, I'm now in the position that Harold
was in when I took him on anddefeated him in election.
We had the same, the peoplethat we elected in 2010,.
The president, after 13 years,retired at our convention last
year, and Tino Gagliardi, fromNew York, who got elected in a
similar fashion to me in 2010,.
Tino stepped up to be the newpresident, the secretary
(20:52):
treasurer, also retired, and agentleman named Ken Shurick,
who's got a lot of great,extensive experience, took over
that.
And the vice president, alsoretired.
He'd been there for 13 years.
I took it on.
It's not a super high-payingjob.
It's in addition to what I doas president of the local here.
What I've found is it does giveme, and therefore Nashville, a
(21:14):
clearer voice where we can sayhey, you know, that's not the
only way to look at this.
Maybe we should try this,because in Nashville you kind of
have to be nice to make stuffwork and sometimes that gets
forgotten as a strategy.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Right right In Nashville.
The last 30 years we have seenso many changes major labels,
independent labels, majorstudios A lot of them aren't
here now.
Nashville has seen such adrastic change.
So what do you see forNashville in the next three to
(21:49):
five years?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
That's a great question.
I think that we're finallyseeing a catch-up in diversity
and an awareness of all of thestyles of music and all of the
different business models thatare going on.
I think Americana, which reallystarted as a catch-all genre,
has broadened things quite a bit.
Plus, I think you're seeing alot more inclusion in country
(22:11):
music.
So I think the increaseddiversity is definitely part of
it.
The way that recording haschanged there are still some big
studios that do things theold-fashioned way People
recording in their house andpassing on things.
I think that's, you know, a newbusiness model.
I think the challenge of thenext five years will be to
balance the tourism withprofessional musicians.
(22:35):
In other words, garth Brookshas a club down on Broadway, but
chances are he's not going tobe performing there very much.
I think what we're looking fornow is a balance.
I really like the new mayor,freddie O'Connell.
We've got some big growthissues.
I think we're just going to seemore and more of these kind of
and crossover is kind of an oldword, but I think we're multiple
genres going on at once where,even beyond category, which was
(22:58):
a term Duke Ellington used touse a lot you can find almost
any kind of music you're lookingfor in Nashville, but you do
have to know where to look,because the tourist thing will
not necessarily get you there.
I think we're going to see moreand more of, hopefully, a
balancing out of thebachelorette parties and venues
where people can get in and out,where locals can go, because
(23:19):
it's a challenge for locals togo downtown.
A lot of them don't want tofool with it.
Symphony Center is right in themiddle of honky-tonk.
World had an effect on theirattendance to some degree.
So we've established thispersona, if you like, as Music
City and I think now it's aquestion of.
I think we're going to see moreof like a rather than continued
growth, more of a settling downand, hopefully, things being a
(23:42):
little less frantic and a littlemore user-friendly,
local-friendly.
I think it's a challenge and, ofcourse, real estate has gone
crazy and a lot of people movedout of town, but I do think
we've made some good stepsforward.
Traffic is an issue, but thegood stuff is here and it's sort
of like my thought to thepeople who go oh man, I can't
take it anymore.
It's like well, where are yougoing to go?
(24:10):
Where are you going to go whereyou can find all this stuff.
You just got to realize thatsometimes it's better to go out
on a Monday or Tuesday than aThursday or Friday, you know,
because the tourists kind oftake over the town on the
weekends.
But I think we're going to seecontinued diversity, continued
independent artists blowing upand then getting absorbed into
one of the larger entities.
We're seeing that a lot, wherepeople do an independent record
and then they go viral and thenboom, they get picked up by a
(24:30):
label because the labels don'tdo artist development the way
they used to.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Right Production development has definitely
changed.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
The example I always use is Bonnie Raitt made like
nine or 10 albums for WarnerBrothers and they never could
break her Right.
And then she switched label toCapitol, made a slightly more
pop record and all of a suddenshe was a superstar.
You just don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's the thing Major labelproduction development.
That has all changed from whatit used to be.
Now everyone has to find theirown direction and hopefully they
can find someone that's beenthere, done that they can guide
them and help them withproduction management and really
help them towards their goals.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, and it is such a great place for artists to be
in terms of finding musicians aplace to tour because of the
location.
There's so many cities within areasonable distance here and
I'd like to see some independentvenues come back.
We really miss Douglas Cornerand some of those places like
that.
You know where I played dozens,hundreds of times and there are
(25:33):
a few, but again, you got toknow where they are.
I think the Station Inn is agreat example.
If you blink, you miss it withall the stuff that's around it,
but you walk in the door andyou're in a timeless world of
great acoustic music.
It's a total time warp in thebest possible way, and I guide
people there all the time who'venever been to Nashville because
it's really special.
There's so many great acousticand bluegrass musicians in this
(25:56):
town that any night of the week,whoever's playing the station
in, is really really, reallygood and it's a great vibe.
And you know, I mean I've beenplaying the Bluebird on and off
since 1984.
A little hard to get in nowwith the building going on
around it, but it's still thereand it's still a great
experience to sit there and 75people and hear music that could
very easily be in a 100,000seat arena.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, yeah.
That's the great thing aboutNashville.
It gives so many people so manygreat opportunities.
One of the good things I thinkthat has changed here in
Nashville is the diversity ofthe music that you can hear
pretty much anywhere you want togo.
When I first moved here, it waspretty much country down on
Broadway and that was it.
Then you could go off toPrinter's Alley and find a few
(26:40):
different things.
But now you can hear so muchdiversity in music and it's
really a good thing.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely.
And there's always been a veryhealthy R&B scene here, going
back to Jimi Hendrix and BillyCox getting out of the Army and
coming down here down toPrinter's Alley and playing
those clubs and getting pickedup on the road with the Isley
Brothers and Little Richard andeventually becoming famous.
But some of those folks youknow, they've always been here,
you know Jimmy Church, cliffordCurry, all these folks.
(27:07):
But I think now the awarenessof that is much more and the
world we're in, all these thingshave co-mingled and I think the
days of trying to separate outgenres is kind of obsolete and
personally I don't miss that.
I always liked the stuff thatwas in the cracks, exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
I have to say this has been a really great
conversation and I'm just soglad that you were able to come
on.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Well, hey, tony, you know I appreciate all the
opportunities I've been able tohave here in Nashville.
I do look back sometimes and go, wow, how did that happen?
Being able to be in the studiowith Earl Scruggs and Elton John
, that was definitely a greatexperience.
It was just one song but it wasmy absolute favorite Elton John
song Country Comforts.
E Murray had played bass on theoriginal version and D had lived
(27:50):
in Nashville for a while.
He had passed away quite awhile ago, before that record.
But you know, I got to meetElton and say, hey, you know, d
Murray was a friend of mine.
And just to see him light upand have a smile thinking about
his old bass player and thenjust trying to play my version
of that part and guess all theright, left hand moves he was
going to make, I mean I couldn'thave you, couldn't?
You know you could have pinchedme a thousand times as a 21
(28:12):
year old moving here and I neverwould have thought that could
have happened.
And this is a place where youcan come and get paid and still
be cool.
It's not really exclusive.
Sometimes in places otherplaces like Austin and New
Orleans it seems like you're asellout if you actually are
making a living doing what youwant to do, and I think
Nashville's always had thismentality of hey, we're being
(28:33):
professionals, we're workingtogether and let's be nice to
one another, let's not screweach other over.
I think that's.
It's huge.
I cannot thank this communityenough, and so for me being in a
position to try to pay itforward and help keep this good
stuff going, I'm honored to bedoing it.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, I understand that for sure.
I always tell people don't lookat your individual things.
Take a little time, work atwhatever you choose to do and
then a little later on, take alook at everything that you've
done.
So if you look at your body ofwork, it stands pretty tall and
I don't blame you for being veryproud of it.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Well, I'm really incredibly grateful for it.
I came here just wanting tomeet a band that people liked.
I didn't really know about allthese other jobs in the music
business and I'm really grateful.
And when I see these greatyoung musicians who get it and
want to do it the right way andknow and have so many more tools
at their disposal to promotethemselves and things, you know,
(29:28):
someone like a Guthrie Trappwho's just kind of created his
own universe, victor Wooten,this kind of folks and I, you
know never really being aroundthe acoustic bluegrass community
, getting into that scene andseeing those folks and these
young kids that grow up going tothe festivals and learning how
to play them by the time they're15, they can play everything
their hero played by the timethey were 30, who learned
(29:49):
everything his hero could playby he was 60.
And I just love thatgenerational family thing
because I was the only musicianin my family so I didn't really
have that experience growing up.
I just wanted it so bad that Iforced it on myself.
I'm really lucky and it's greatto get to work with guys like
you, that you come in the studio, you've got a great song, you
put a great collection ofplayers together and you know
(30:10):
how to guide it to the finishline, and I love being on either
side of the glass.
As a bass player, it's just youserve the song and as an artist
, you're trying to create avision for yourself, and I've
been fortunate enough to get todo both and I feel grateful for
that.
One thing I'm really glad that Inever stopped doing was playing
live gigs, because there'sthings that happen in that live
(30:31):
environment that you know andthen the next day somebody goes
hey, I want something weird here.
It's like, oh man, I just wasdoing something weird last night
, let me do this.
And I can't tell you how many,how many times that's happened
the last thought I would leaveyou with.
When I go talk to kids inschools which I do a fair amount
I always tell many of theteachers hey, I'm happy to come
talk to your kids, whether it'scollege or elementary.
(30:51):
I always say you've got to trustyourself.
You've got to listen to yourheart, listen to your gut, your
inner voice, god, whatever youwant to call it.
You've got to listen to thatvoice, because all the craziest
decisions that I ever made, likemoving to Nashville, getting a
weird electric upright bassrunning for president of the
union.
All these things were thingsthat I just were in my gut and I
couldn't ignore them and Ialways say, if you stop
(31:12):
listening to that voice, itmight stop talking.
So trust yourself and followyour dreams.
I mean it can happen.
This is a place where I thinkour percentage of people making
their dreams come true isprobably higher than anywhere
else in the world, certainly inthe music business.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, this is a great place and that is just great
advice to give to people.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Well, thank you for for asking me to talk.
I'm, as you can tell, I'malways happy to talk.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Yeah, I know, that's, that's, that's me too, it's.
It's great to haveconversations, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Oh, that's that's great, to have conversations,
you know.
Oh, that's great.
And anybody who's interested inchecking out my stuff, they can
go to DavePalmeroycom and it'llbe there for those few people
that are buying physical product, but I still have a few.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, I'm a big fan of physical product as well.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I miss it.
I mean, I like holding it,whether it's an album or CD,
whatever.
But at the same time I'm outthere on all the streaming
services and you know, happy,just happy, to be able to have
made a living doing what I loveto do.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Yes, we are both very fortunate to do what we love to
do, so thanks for coming on.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
I've been very blessed and happy to pay it
forward and glad to be yourfriend, Tony.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Thank you, the pleasure's been all mine.
Thanks for joining us today.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
This has been a Tony Mantorproduction.
For more information, contactmedia at platomusiccom.
My career in the entertainment industry has
enabled me to work with adiverse range of talent.
Through my years of experience,I've recognized two essential
aspects.
Industry professionals, whetherfamous stars or
behind-the-scenes staff, havefascinating stories to tell.
Secondly, audiences are eagerto listen to these stories,
(00:36):
which offer a glimpse into theirlives and the evolution of
their life stories.
This podcast aims to sharethese narratives, providing
information on how they evolvedinto their chosen career.
We will delve into theirjourney to stardom, discuss
their struggles and successesand hear from people who helped
them achieve their goals.
Get ready for intriguingbehind-the-scenes stories and
(00:58):
insights into the fascinatingworld of entertainment.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantour.
Welcome to Almost LiveNashville.
Today's guest has such a greatcareer.
He has performed with so manystars.
Now he's president of the localunion right here in Nashville.
Dave Pomeroy is our guest todayand it's great to have him here
(01:20):
.
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Absolutely my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
This may date you a little bit, but how long have
you been here in Nashville?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I moved to Nashville on October 5th 1977.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
1977.
Wow, that's a while ago.
So what prompted you to makethe move to Nashville?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Well, I was living in London, England.
I'd lived there for a year.
I was a military kid, so wetraveled around a lot, including
some years in England when Iwas very young, which gave me a
two-year head start on theBeatles, which is probably why
I'm a musician and my brotherand sister are lawyers.
After two years of college atUniversity of Virginia, I
started playing in a band andwas working a lot in this kind
(02:01):
of folk acoustic trio.
I had an opportunity to go toEurope because my dad was
stationed at NATO headquartersin Belgium.
So I showed up in Belgium,announced that I'd quit college
and wanted to go to London to bea rock star, and after they
pulled my dad out of the ceilinga couple months later, he gave
me a ride to London and I pickedup a music paper, got an
audition the next day, got thegig, played my first show and
(02:24):
then on the following Mondaywent applied for a work permit,
which I got, and so I lived inEngland, London, England, for a
year, from September 76 toSeptember 77.
And it was a great lifeexperience, a great musical
experience.
But my visa ran out and it wastime to go back to the States.
So I thought, well, after this,New York, LA or Nashville and I
don't know anybody in New York,I don't know anybody in LA and
(02:46):
this singer, Mary Bomar, who Ihad worked with in this trio at
Charlottesville, had moved toNashville and had gotten a
publishing deal with Roger Cookand Ralph Murphy, Picklewick
Music.
And so I thought, well, I'lltry Nashville first and check it
out for a couple weeks.
And it's been 46 years, Hard tobelieve.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, it definitely is amazing how time flies, yeah,
so once you moved to Nashville,was it what you expected?
And then what transpired to getyou to where you are today?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Well, I don't know if it was what I was expecting,
other than I just I didn't knowmuch about country music.
I didn't know much about singersongwriters, as opposed to just
artists, you know, and bands.
I was a band guy, but the veryfirst show that I saw was a
great songwriter named DaveOlney and he had a full band and
it was not anything like Iexpected and that was
(03:36):
encouraging.
I also saw Neil Young hangingout in a bar with some guys he
was working in the studio withand I was pretty impressed by
that.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I was here about three, four weeks and realized
that I either had to get a jobor get a gig, and I wasn't going
to get a gig in town right away, because those were the days
where, you know, you had studiomusicians and road musicians and
they were very different.
Right, I literally put up acouple of homemade business
cards and got a call a coupledays later from a drummer named
Cleet Chapman, who played withan artist named Sleepy LaBeef.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Interesting guy, from Arkansas originally, who was
working primarily in the Bostonarea at the time, and what I
didn't realize was that he wasliterally just driving through
Nashville and his bass player, Iguess, jumped off the out of
the motorhome and so I jumped inthe motor home and we drove
straight up to Boston and werethere for about a year without
ever coming back to Nashville.
Wow, a great musical experience.
(04:31):
Sleepy was, one of hisnicknames was the human jukebox,
because he knew thousands ofsongs and no charts, no
rehearsals, just follow.
And he was a big old guy and ifI wasn't, if I was supposed to
be playing 4-4 bass instead of2-4, he would glare at me and
start playing the bass line Ishould be playing and I would
jump on it.
So I learned a whole lot fromhim.
(04:51):
He was a classic example ofwhat they now call Americana
music, where it was a mixture.
You know, in one set he wouldstring these medleys together 45
minutes long, sometimes onesong into another without breaks
, where he'd go from Johnny Cashto Ernest Tubb, to Bo Diddley,
to Muddy Waters, to Nelson, to apolka song and back again.
(05:11):
And you just, it was great eartraining and learning how to
watch the back of a guitar neckand figure out what might be
happening next, and it was areally good experience, and he
and I remained close over theyears and my son and I actually
made a little documentary filmabout him in 2012 called Sleepy
LeBeef Rides.
Again, he's a reallyinteresting guy.
I learned a lot from him, but Ihad to get back to town, so I
(05:34):
came back and did day jobs for alittle while, sold
encyclopedias door to door andworked at a lumber yard briefly,
and then I stumbled onto anopportunity to play with Guy
Clark, which immediately led toplaying at the same time with
Billy Joe Shaver, because theywere at the time, sharing a band
.
Those guys were especially.
(05:54):
Guy was my kind of speed bumpon the way to figuring out how
to be employable in Nashville,because I was still all about
bass solos and high energy rockand roll and Sleepy would give
me 20.
Once he figured out I'd play abass solo, he'd give me 20 solos
a night.
And suddenly I'm sitting in abasement with Guy Clark hearing
these songs and you just kind ofgo wow, do you even need bass?
(06:14):
Guy had a way of writing thesevery simple songs that had
incredibly deep meaning, and soit was I call it my speed bump
on the way to Don Williams,which I managed to land a gig
with Don in 1980.
That was a game changer for me.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Now you've got a resume of great singers you've
either recorded with or been onthe road with.
So you was with Don for themost of it.
But how did those others helpyou get into the studio and
start really moving forwards towhat you was going to do for
your career?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I was with Don full-time for 14 years.
He was very encouraging to us.
Danny Flowers, our guitarplayer, had written the song
Tulsa Time for Don, which was ahuge hit.
Of course Eric Clapton coveredit, which made it even bigger.
So Don did what very fewartists would ever do and went
to his label, mca, and said I'vegot a really good band.
I think you should give them arecord deal.
(07:07):
And so two years after I joinedhis band, we were in the studio
making a record and Biff Watsonand I wrote an instrumental
kind of a funk tune, and Donliked it and it made our record
somehow, and so I felt verygratified.
But it still took quite a fewmore years before I really began
to understand recording.
And so, starting in about 85, Istarted playing on Don's
(07:29):
Records and that was a greateducation.
And then his co-producer, garthFundus, started branching out,
and one of the first projects hedid was the final two albums
with Keith Whitley.
I was playing more or less thekind of things that had been
done before on Don's Records alot of one, five, very simple
stuff.
With Keith.
He had a very unique voice.
Garth did a really interestingthing because he was really from
(07:51):
the bluegrass world.
But Garth convinced him tolower his keys by about a step
and a half and it took him to awhole other register in his
voice and I had this electricstand-up bass that I had a guy
make for me and mostly just gotweird looks from people who
didn't understand what it was.
Yeah, I love that bass Reallyfit Keith's voice.
(08:12):
I ended up playing that onalmost that whole record called
Don't Close your Eyes, and asong called I'm no Stranger to
the Rain became a number one hitand I had a big bass slide and
that just suddenly opened thedoor to a lot of other things.
But I owe Don and Garth Fundusa lot for giving me that chance.
Garth's next project was TrishaYearwood and I ended up playing
(08:33):
on Trisha's first seven albumsand then everything just started
to steamroll.
I played on Alan Jackson'sfirst three number one singles
and as one thing led to anotherand I always kept playing live
throughout all this stuff, Iwould do my own band and I
always felt like those creativethings gave you a little edge
when you went in the studio andsomebody wanted something
(08:53):
different, right, oh, you know,I was able to.
Just, you know, have one one,literally one door lead to
another.
I was doing a lot of demos withPaul Kennerly, the songwriter,
who at the time was married toEmmylou Harris, and I would go
out to the house and overdubsome things for Paul and he'd
say, oh, you know, he's British.
You know, do you fancy a cup oftea?
(09:13):
And it's like, oh, that'd begreat.
We go in the kitchen andthere's Emmylou making tea for
us, and so you know, I was wellaware of her.
I'd seen her play when I was atUVA and always loved her stuff.
And the next time she made arecord, it was the first time
that she'd made a record withouther significant other producing
it.
And her and Richard Bennettmade an album called Bluebird
and they made a deal whereRichard got to pick the drummer
(09:34):
and she got to pick the bassplayer and somehow or another,
she picked me, that's great.
And that opened a door and todifferent things.
And Richard did a record withJoel Sonnier and I was also very
involved in the NAMM show stuffwhen they would come to town
and I did several of theseall-star guitar nights and
things like that.
So I got to meet people likeJames Burton and Peter Frampton
(09:56):
and Adrian Ballou.
Suddenly I met out at Adrian'shouse doing a song with him and
Peter, a tribute to Hank Marvin,the great British guitar player
, and it was really just this,you know, evolution of one thing
leading to another.
And you know, I first met GarthBrooks when he was taking the
money at the door at theBluebird for another writer for
(10:16):
the same company, buddy Monlock,came on stage and sang a little
harmony, and so it's reallybeen amazing.
I mean, nobody's more surprisedthan me.
I get that Russell Smith was agreat guy to work with and we
wrote a couple of songs together.
And I met Larry Nectal throughJim Horn and Dwayne Eddy.
Larry Nectal and I wrote acouple of songs together and got
(10:37):
to play on his solo records andof course he was also a
wonderful bass player and hadplayed bass on Mr Tambourine man
and other things when he was inLA Right, not to mention
playing piano on Bridge OverTroubled Waters, right, right,
so you know it.
Just it's kind of I look backat that list and it looks
amazing to me too.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, that's an awesome story.
I love it, so I'm going to makeit a little bit tougher on you.
Of all the things that you'vedone, all the people you've
worked with, played with,performed with what's one of
your favorite projects that juststands out in your mind.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Wow.
Well, I think you know I'm veryI mean I'm very proud of Don.
I would think of it more almostas songs.
We did a song with Don calledOld Coyote Town.
That was a single.
That was on the album.
I believe it was on the album.
It was called Shades oh gosh, Ican't remember the name now.
But the Don stuff, the EmmylouBluebird album was huge.
The first Keith Whitley albumthat I've already spoke about,
don't Close your Eyes.
(11:35):
But a real thrill for me wasgetting to know and play with
Chet Atkins.
David Hungate, who had beenproducing Chet for some time
wonderful bass player, great guywas mowing his yard one day and
fell down the hill and brokehis ankle and decided he didn't
want to fly to Texas to do thisTV special for Chet's new album
that he had just produced.
And he recommended me to takehis place, as did Chet's manager
(11:58):
at the time, fred Cueley, andso Chet was literally like, well
, I don't know who this guy is,but you're both recommending him
.
So okay, and so I fly down toTexas.
I'd met Chet before but he hadno idea who I was.
And it was this amazing TVspecial with Earl Clue and Steve
Warner and Eric Johnson, thegreat Texas guitar player, and
Susie Boggess, and it was amagical thing and Chet was very
(12:21):
nice, very complimentary thing.
And Chet was very nice, verycomplimentary, and he said to me
afterwards hey, you know, we dothis Saturday morning breakfast
out at the Cracker Barrel onCharlotte Pike.
You're welcome to come outanytime.
And so I started going outthere and you never know, one
week it would be Mark Knopflerand the next week it would be
Goober.
You know, george Lindsay, youknow, and you just never Ray
(12:41):
Stevens, whoever.
And so I got to know Chet alittle bit and when he decided
he was going to get out and playsome gigs, he knew that I was
playing every Monday at the ExitInn.
I used to do these kind ofvariety shows called Monday
Night Madness.
And he came to see me andcalled me the next day and said,
hey, that funny song, you didsend that over.
I like that and so I, you know,with double spaced lyrics.
(13:06):
So I sent over a version of thesong that I had co-written
after the fact with a womannamed Emily Cates, that Guy
Clark had discovered called theDay the Bass Players Took Over
the World and Chet recorded itwith Tommy Emanuel as the Day
Finger Pickers Took Over theWorld and it became the title
track of his last album.
So I think that was a reallyspecial thing and I did get to
record some with Chet as well.
(13:27):
But the TV special was reallygreat and for some reason I
always seem to end up inaudiovisual things.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Well, the entertainment business has so
many different things, sothere's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
There was a show that we tried to get off the ground
that never did take off back inthe 80s called Nashville Skyline
and we recorded at the exit endkind of.
It really was, I think, thefirst of the songwriters in the
round, kind of thing, and one ofthe combinations was, you know,
guy Clark, rodney Crowell andthe very young Vince Gill, and
you know we had Russell Smithand Don Schlitz and the Kathy
(14:00):
Mateo, all these differentpeople and ended up playing with
Dickie Betts and Jimmy Hall atthe end of the day and we filmed
like 50 songs in a day.
It's hard to say one thing I'vebeen very grateful to get to do
my own projects on the side andI put out 14 records on my own,
12 records and two DVDs on myown label.
But I think really, you know,the Emmy Lou record is one that
(14:23):
I can still go back and just itseems like a dream.
One other one I would go on,that is Emmy called me a few
years later and we recorded asong with the Chieftains.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
And that was really special too.
Yeah, that was great.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
That is such a great story and what a history.
And now, all of a sudden, youbecome president of the
Nashville Union.
So how did that happen that youwound up as president of the
Nashville Union?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
So how did that happen that you wound up as
president of the NashvilleMusicians Union?
Well, it was interesting.
I joined the union right awaybecause somebody who I respected
said hey, kid, join the union.
And I found out early that itcan be really good to be under a
union contract.
We did a show with Don at GiantStadium in the Meadowlands and
I'd only been with him about sixmonths and for me, I pretty
much was ready to retire.
I thought I'd made it playingat the Meadowlands.
(15:07):
Unbeknownst to me it was filmedand unbeknownst to me it was
under a union contract.
And about a month or two later afriend called and said hey,
turn on Channel 4.
You're on TV.
And it was Casey Kasem'sAmerican Top 10, the TV version
of his radio Top 40 show.
And sure enough, don had thenumber one country single that
week Good Old Boys Like Me.
And there we were.
(15:28):
And so, man, that's great, thisis incredible.
And then I got a check, a nicecheck.
And then it aired again a monthlater because it was still the
number one single.
And I got another check and waslike, wow, I got paid three
times for one gig.
That was my first awareness ofthe union being significant.
I really first got involvedbecause they used to have, in
the old days, business agentswhose jobs seemed to be to just
(15:50):
kind of hassle people for doingstuff that didn't fit what they
were used to.
All over town there were clubswhere you played your own music
but they weren't giving you aguarantee.
It was up to you to draw acrowd and if you drew a crowd
they'd have you back and youpaid your money at the door and
they made their money at the bar.
And it was pretty organicsituation the Bluebird, douglas
Corner and this guy kept messingwith me and finally I sort of
(16:13):
you know, what do you want me todo?
Forge a contract.
And he kind of looked at melike that's not a bad idea on it
.
And finally I stood up at ameeting and I said, hey, you
know, I got two kids.
I'm trying to tell the truth,learn how to tell the truth, and
can we figure something out onthis?
Because this doesn't fit thebusiness model.
What you're asking us to dodoesn't fit, which has kind of
(16:35):
been a metaphor for everythingthat I've done since.
And so they made me head of acommittee and we wrote a very
simple bylaw that said whenyou're playing original music in
a listening room, the bandleader can be the employer, and
so we would file contracts andmade that go away.
But in the meantime that guyhad probably run off 500 or
1,000 people by being much tooaggressive.
(16:56):
So that was my first education.
And then, as I got more involvedin the recording side of things
in the early 2000s, I becamepresident of the Recording
Musicians Association, which isa subdivision of the union
representing those that work onrecording.
As I began to look at thenational picture, I could see
that we had issues that couldonly be resolved with a change
(17:16):
in leadership.
My predecessor, harold Bradley,very famous, respected musician
who I had worked with a lot,even with his older brother Owen
, who was one of the realfounders of the music row and
Harold had kind of beenpersuaded by the president, who
was from DC and had figured outthat if you keep everybody
(17:37):
fighting all the time, you canstay in power.
So he'd kind of convincedHarold that I'd been brainwashed
by Los Angeles recordingmusicians, which was not true.
So I got a little frustratedwith it and finally it was like
you know I think we need achange in leadership and so I
ran against Harold, against theadvice of some people who were
sure that it was a crazy idea,and Craig Cramp ran as secretary
(18:01):
treasurer and we much to thesurprise of everyone, in 2008,
we pretty soundly defeatedHarold and Billy Lineman, who
was a you know, harold wasinternational vice president and
Billy was a board member, andit was the first time in the
history of the AFM that nationalofficers of that stature had
been defeated at home.
It was just time for a change.
It was a generational shift.
(18:21):
A year later, the same thinghappened in New York.
Six months after that, we put,we united New York, la and
Nashville for the first time ina long time and we're able to
run a ticket of candidates.
That got the national officersout of there, right, and so you
know, it was just one of thosethings I never could have
imagined when I came here.
I just felt like we've got tohave, we've got to reinvent
(18:42):
ourselves here or we're going tobecome obsolete.
And I've been very fortunate tobe able to be in a position,
because people do look atNashville with a different eye.
We're getting stuff done thatother locals have not been able
to do.
We came up with a scale forhome recording where you could
get paid by the song and payinto your own pension, which is
something they told us we werenot allowed to do, and all we
(19:05):
had to do was create a sentencethat allowed the employer to
give the musician authority tomake the payment.
So we also came up with a wayto bill artists that are using
tracks from the records on tour,similar to when they do it on a
song in an award show and theyuse tracks from the record.
They go out on the road.
They want to do the same thing.
Well, our agreements alwayssaid that's prohibited, but we
(19:30):
came up with a way to make itlegal and fair.
We've been able to bill andcollect almost a million dollars
on that, so it's been veryinteresting.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah, I think the biggest word there is fair.
If people think that they'rebeing treated fair, then that
can overcome just about anything.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
That's a great point because to me, I talk about
respect a lot.
This is mutual respect betweenemployers and musicians.
Right, you know I work for you.
Yeah, we work hard for you, andyou treat us the way we like to
be treated To us.
It's a no-brainer, rightSituations.
It seems like the musicbusiness is portrayed as it has
to be a win-lose and forsomebody to be successful,
(20:06):
somebody else has to suffer,right, it does not have to be
that way, and I think that's whyNashville has had the staying
power that some of these othercities that only get the big
stuff or only get symphonyorchestras and the theater work,
and we have more freelancemusicians in our local, I think,
than any other local in the AFM.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Now, you just mentioned vice president of
international, and I thinkyou've just been elected to that
position, right?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Ironically, yes, I'm now in the position that Harold
was in when I took him on anddefeated him in election.
We had the same, the peoplethat we elected in 2010,.
The president, after 13 years,retired at our convention last
year, and Tino Gagliardi, fromNew York, who got elected in a
similar fashion to me in 2010,.
Tino stepped up to be the newpresident, the secretary
(20:52):
treasurer, also retired, and agentleman named Ken Shurick,
who's got a lot of great,extensive experience, took over
that.
And the vice president, alsoretired.
He'd been there for 13 years.
I took it on.
It's not a super high-payingjob.
It's in addition to what I doas president of the local here.
What I've found is it does giveme, and therefore Nashville, a
(21:14):
clearer voice where we can sayhey, you know, that's not the
only way to look at this.
Maybe we should try this,because in Nashville you kind of
have to be nice to make stuffwork and sometimes that gets
forgotten as a strategy.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Right right In Nashville.
The last 30 years we have seenso many changes major labels,
independent labels, majorstudios A lot of them aren't
here now.
Nashville has seen such adrastic change.
So what do you see forNashville in the next three to
(21:49):
five years?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
That's a great question.
I think that we're finallyseeing a catch-up in diversity
and an awareness of all of thestyles of music and all of the
different business models thatare going on.
I think Americana, which reallystarted as a catch-all genre,
has broadened things quite a bit.
Plus, I think you're seeing alot more inclusion in country
(22:11):
music.
So I think the increaseddiversity is definitely part of
it.
The way that recording haschanged there are still some big
studios that do things theold-fashioned way People
recording in their house andpassing on things.
I think that's, you know, a newbusiness model.
I think the challenge of thenext five years will be to
balance the tourism withprofessional musicians.
(22:35):
In other words, garth Brookshas a club down on Broadway, but
chances are he's not going tobe performing there very much.
I think what we're looking fornow is a balance.
I really like the new mayor,freddie O'Connell.
We've got some big growthissues.
I think we're just going to seemore and more of these kind of
and crossover is kind of an oldword, but I think we're multiple
genres going on at once where,even beyond category, which was
(22:58):
a term Duke Ellington used touse a lot you can find almost
any kind of music you're lookingfor in Nashville, but you do
have to know where to look,because the tourist thing will
not necessarily get you there.
I think we're going to see moreand more of, hopefully, a
balancing out of thebachelorette parties and venues
where people can get in and out,where locals can go, because
(23:19):
it's a challenge for locals togo downtown.
A lot of them don't want tofool with it.
Symphony Center is right in themiddle of honky-tonk.
World had an effect on theirattendance to some degree.
So we've established thispersona, if you like, as Music
City and I think now it's aquestion of.
I think we're going to see moreof like a rather than continued
growth, more of a settling downand, hopefully, things being a
(23:42):
little less frantic and a littlemore user-friendly,
local-friendly.
I think it's a challenge and, ofcourse, real estate has gone
crazy and a lot of people movedout of town, but I do think
we've made some good stepsforward.
Traffic is an issue, but thegood stuff is here and it's sort
of like my thought to thepeople who go oh man, I can't
take it anymore.
It's like well, where are yougoing to go?
(24:10):
Where are you going to go whereyou can find all this stuff.
You just got to realize thatsometimes it's better to go out
on a Monday or Tuesday than aThursday or Friday, you know,
because the tourists kind oftake over the town on the
weekends.
But I think we're going to seecontinued diversity, continued
independent artists blowing upand then getting absorbed into
one of the larger entities.
We're seeing that a lot, wherepeople do an independent record
and then they go viral and thenboom, they get picked up by a
(24:30):
label because the labels don'tdo artist development the way
they used to.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Right Production development has definitely
changed.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
The example I always use is Bonnie Raitt made like
nine or 10 albums for WarnerBrothers and they never could
break her Right.
And then she switched label toCapitol, made a slightly more
pop record and all of a suddenshe was a superstar.
You just don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's the thing Major labelproduction development.
That has all changed from whatit used to be.
Now everyone has to find theirown direction and hopefully they
can find someone that's beenthere, done that they can guide
them and help them withproduction management and really
help them towards their goals.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, and it is such a great place for artists to be
in terms of finding musicians aplace to tour because of the
location.
There's so many cities within areasonable distance here and
I'd like to see some independentvenues come back.
We really miss Douglas Cornerand some of those places like
that.
You know where I played dozens,hundreds of times and there are
(25:33):
a few, but again, you got toknow where they are.
I think the Station Inn is agreat example.
If you blink, you miss it withall the stuff that's around it,
but you walk in the door andyou're in a timeless world of
great acoustic music.
It's a total time warp in thebest possible way, and I guide
people there all the time who'venever been to Nashville because
it's really special.
There's so many great acousticand bluegrass musicians in this
(25:56):
town that any night of the week,whoever's playing the station
in, is really really, reallygood and it's a great vibe.
And you know, I mean I've beenplaying the Bluebird on and off
since 1984.
A little hard to get in nowwith the building going on
around it, but it's still thereand it's still a great
experience to sit there and 75people and hear music that could
very easily be in a 100,000seat arena.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, yeah.
That's the great thing aboutNashville.
It gives so many people so manygreat opportunities.
One of the good things I thinkthat has changed here in
Nashville is the diversity ofthe music that you can hear
pretty much anywhere you want togo.
When I first moved here, it waspretty much country down on
Broadway and that was it.
Then you could go off toPrinter's Alley and find a few
(26:40):
different things.
But now you can hear so muchdiversity in music and it's
really a good thing.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely.
And there's always been a veryhealthy R&B scene here, going
back to Jimi Hendrix and BillyCox getting out of the Army and
coming down here down toPrinter's Alley and playing
those clubs and getting pickedup on the road with the Isley
Brothers and Little Richard andeventually becoming famous.
But some of those folks youknow, they've always been here,
you know Jimmy Church, cliffordCurry, all these folks.
(27:07):
But I think now the awarenessof that is much more and the
world we're in, all these thingshave co-mingled and I think the
days of trying to separate outgenres is kind of obsolete and
personally I don't miss that.
I always liked the stuff thatwas in the cracks, exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
I have to say this has been a really great
conversation and I'm just soglad that you were able to come
on.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Well, hey, tony, you know I appreciate all the
opportunities I've been able tohave here in Nashville.
I do look back sometimes and go, wow, how did that happen?
Being able to be in the studiowith Earl Scruggs and Elton John
, that was definitely a greatexperience.
It was just one song but it wasmy absolute favorite Elton John
song Country Comforts.
E Murray had played bass on theoriginal version and D had lived
(27:50):
in Nashville for a while.
He had passed away quite awhile ago, before that record.
But you know, I got to meetElton and say, hey, you know, d
Murray was a friend of mine.
And just to see him light upand have a smile thinking about
his old bass player and thenjust trying to play my version
of that part and guess all theright, left hand moves he was
going to make, I mean I couldn'thave you, couldn't?
You know you could have pinchedme a thousand times as a 21
(28:12):
year old moving here and I neverwould have thought that could
have happened.
And this is a place where youcan come and get paid and still
be cool.
It's not really exclusive.
Sometimes in places otherplaces like Austin and New
Orleans it seems like you're asellout if you actually are
making a living doing what youwant to do, and I think
Nashville's always had thismentality of hey, we're being
(28:33):
professionals, we're workingtogether and let's be nice to
one another, let's not screweach other over.
I think that's.
It's huge.
I cannot thank this communityenough, and so for me being in a
position to try to pay itforward and help keep this good
stuff going, I'm honored to bedoing it.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, I understand that for sure.
I always tell people don't lookat your individual things.
Take a little time, work atwhatever you choose to do and
then a little later on, take alook at everything that you've
done.
So if you look at your body ofwork, it stands pretty tall and
I don't blame you for being veryproud of it.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Well, I'm really incredibly grateful for it.
I came here just wanting tomeet a band that people liked.
I didn't really know about allthese other jobs in the music
business and I'm really grateful.
And when I see these greatyoung musicians who get it and
want to do it the right way andknow and have so many more tools
at their disposal to promotethemselves and things, you know,
(29:28):
someone like a Guthrie Trappwho's just kind of created his
own universe, victor Wooten,this kind of folks and I, you
know never really being aroundthe acoustic bluegrass community
, getting into that scene andseeing those folks and these
young kids that grow up going tothe festivals and learning how
to play them by the time they're15, they can play everything
their hero played by the timethey were 30, who learned
(29:49):
everything his hero could playby he was 60.
And I just love thatgenerational family thing
because I was the only musicianin my family so I didn't really
have that experience growing up.
I just wanted it so bad that Iforced it on myself.
I'm really lucky and it's greatto get to work with guys like
you, that you come in the studio, you've got a great song, you
put a great collection ofplayers together and you know
(30:10):
how to guide it to the finishline, and I love being on either
side of the glass.
As a bass player, it's just youserve the song and as an artist
, you're trying to create avision for yourself, and I've
been fortunate enough to get todo both and I feel grateful for
that.
One thing I'm really glad that Inever stopped doing was playing
live gigs, because there'sthings that happen in that live
(30:31):
environment that you know andthen the next day somebody goes
hey, I want something weird here.
It's like, oh man, I just wasdoing something weird last night
, let me do this.
And I can't tell you how many,how many times that's happened
the last thought I would leaveyou with.
When I go talk to kids inschools which I do a fair amount
I always tell many of theteachers hey, I'm happy to come
talk to your kids, whether it'scollege or elementary.
(30:51):
I always say you've got to trustyourself.
You've got to listen to yourheart, listen to your gut, your
inner voice, god, whatever youwant to call it.
You've got to listen to thatvoice, because all the craziest
decisions that I ever made, likemoving to Nashville, getting a
weird electric upright bassrunning for president of the
union.
All these things were thingsthat I just were in my gut and I
couldn't ignore them and Ialways say, if you stop
(31:12):
listening to that voice, itmight stop talking.
So trust yourself and followyour dreams.
I mean it can happen.
This is a place where I thinkour percentage of people making
their dreams come true isprobably higher than anywhere
else in the world, certainly inthe music business.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, this is a great place and that is just great
advice to give to people.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Well, thank you for for asking me to talk.
I'm, as you can tell, I'malways happy to talk.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Yeah, I know, that's, that's, that's me too, it's.
It's great to haveconversations, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Oh, that's that's great, to have conversations,
you know.
Oh, that's great.
And anybody who's interested inchecking out my stuff, they can
go to DavePalmeroycom and it'llbe there for those few people
that are buying physical product, but I still have a few.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Yeah, I'm a big fan of physical product as well.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I miss it.
I mean, I like holding it,whether it's an album or CD,
whatever.
But at the same time I'm outthere on all the streaming
services and you know, happy,just happy, to be able to have
made a living doing what I loveto do.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Yes, we are both very fortunate to do what we love to
do, so thanks for coming on.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
I've been very blessed and happy to pay it
forward and glad to be yourfriend, Tony.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Thank you, the pleasure's been all mine.
Thanks for joining us today.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
This has been a Tony Mantorproduction.
For more information, contactmedia at platomusiccom.
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