You’re Not Lazy—You’re Burnt Out

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Seema Desai (00:00):
My wrists are aching, my fingers are hurting my

(00:02):
shoulders, everything is screaming.
And somewhere around hour fourof the crying, his and mine.
'cause at that point Ihad just broken down.
I mean, you remember when yourkids were babies, you know?

Tony Tidbit (00:14):
Right, right.

And I remember thinking, I'm done.
If I just stopped breathing,the noise would go away.
And I wouldn't have to feellike such a failure 'cause I
wouldn't be here to feel it.
And I remember it, it was almostlike having these thoughts.
It was an out of body experience, right?

(00:36):
This recognition of like, ohmy gosh, what are you saying?
You know, what are you, what is happening?
And I think just the awareness of,of what that was and having this,
it was almost like I felt my futureself calling out to me going, hang
on, it's about to get so good.

We'll discuss race and how it plays a factor and how we didn't even talk
about this topic 'cause we were afraid

BEP Narrator (01:02):
A Black Executive Perspective.
We're coming to you live from thenew BEP studio for another thought
provoking episode of A Black ExecutivePerspective podcast, A safe space where
we discuss all matters regarding race.
Culture and those uncomfortabletopics people tend to avoid.

(01:22):
I'm your host Tony Tidbit.
So before we get started on afantastic episode, I wanna remind
everyone to make sure you check outour partners at Code M Magazine,
whose mission is to save the blackfamily by first saving the black man.
So check them out@codemmagazine.com.
That is code m magazine.com.

(01:44):
And so today, Dr.
Seema Desai transformational successcoach, speaker, and co-host of
the award-winning Happy and HumanPodcast joins us for a deep dive
into the struggles and triumphsof high performing professionals.

(02:04):
We'll unpack the invisible weightcarried by ambitious leaders,
the stress, self-doubt, andthe feeling of never enough.
I know that feeling 'cause I'vebeen there a million times.
Dr.
Desai will share her powerful researchand personal stories that challenges
the status quo of the hustle culturethrough the lens of a woman of

(02:30):
color, and will often offer practicalstrategies for reclaiming your power now.
So let me tell you a littlebit about my good friend Dr.
Seema Desai.
As I stated, she's a transformationalspeaker, credential executive coach, and
advocate for the performance with purpose.

(02:52):
She empowers ambitious, high performingleaders, not only to excel at work,
but also nurture their wellbeing andcultivate meaningful connections at home.
Drawing from her rich, cultural, heritageand personal journey, navigating imposter
syndrome, postpartum depression, andthe challenges of being a working mom.

(03:16):
Dr.
Desai brings a rare blend ofempathy, insight, and real world
experience to every leader she serves.
She's the author of Connected DiscoveringYour Inner Guide, and as I stated
earlier, the co-host of the multipleaward-winning podcast, happy and Human,

(03:36):
where she champions conversationsaround success and self-care.
A committed change maker.
Dr.
Desai also serves on the executiveboard of Pham USA's Austin Chapter,
driving educational equity forunderserved children in India and beyond.

(03:58):
Although no longerpractice in dentistry, Dr.
Desai early career as a generaldentist, and Austin informs her
holistic approach, treating not justsymptoms, but the whole person, Dr.
Seema Desai.
Welcome to A Black ExecutivePerspective podcast.
My sister,

oh my goodness, I am thrilled to be here.
So excited.
I cannot wait to dive into what'sgonna be a really fun conversation.

Well, you are, you're not the only one that's excited, my friend.
I mean, listen, yourbackground is undeniable.
What you're doing and how you'rehelping transform people's personal
lives, get them off the rat wheel ofthe, you know, uh, the climb up the
corporate ladder and making them feelat peace with themselves is beautiful.

(04:48):
And this is something I'vebeen looking forward to since
we put it on the calendar.
I've been looking forward to this date.
Because this is something frommy own experience that I've
dealt with and still deal with.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
That I can tell you thousands andthousands, maybe millions of people
in corporate America or businessowners or whatever the case may be.

(05:11):
Athletes.
Yeah.
High, like you said, high achievers.
Mm-hmm.
That struggle with this becausewe only know one way and that
way is full throttle 365 24 7.
Correct.
So I'm so happy to hear you to behere today so you can talk, talk to us
about how we can throttle that down andstill be just as effective, uh, in our

(05:34):
endeavors and whatever we wanna achieve.
Now, before we get into the heavystuff, my sister, tell us a little bit
about where you currently reside andthen a little bit about your family.

Yeah, well, you know, Tony family is everything to me.
I live in Austin, Texas, um, withmy husband and two young children.
They're not as young as they used to be.
They're growing fast, but, uh, youknow, we're loving life while they
are still young and unable to driveand need us for all the things.
Um, and we have a lot ofextended family around too.

(06:06):
So that, that definitelyinforms our day to day.
And our, you know, month to month as wellis, is heavily knitting in time with our
nieces, nephews, aunts, uncles, cousins.
Um, that's really, really important to us.

That's awesome.
How old are your kids?

My older one is 13, and so he's, he's right in it.
He's right in that he is 13.
Let me tell you.
And my daughter is 10 and a half.
So, you know, she's, they both kindof fall into those stereotypical,
heteronormative boxes of tendencies,even first born and second born

(06:46):
and all, all of those things.
But, um, you know, we're enjoying everyminute of it, even when it feels sticky
and hard and, uh, you know, that,that's, that's I think, been such a gift.
Really.
Yeah.
Is I feel like when I'm out and about, Ireally try to watch, it's important to me

(07:06):
to be very aware of when I am in judgmentof something or someone, um, because
that says something about me, right?
Mm-hmm.
It doesn't say something aboutthe other person so much as
it says something about me.
And that's where I have the power toreally shift my perspective, or even
just that awareness of recognition.
Right.
But I do see familiesout and about, and, um.

(07:28):
You know, I, I used to be those families.
I used to be that mom that was reallyangry and frustrated and stressed
and, you know, had checked off allthose boxes and still it felt like
stress was how it was supposed to be.
That there wasn't really a reprieveexcept for maybe that glass of wine or
buying that cute handbag, maybe, uh,taking that vacation or eating that bowl

(07:49):
of ice cream at 10 o'clock at night.
Um, and it's, it's been such a gift.
The work that I do now has beensuch a gift in order to be able to
really create meaningful connectionwith people, especially my kids.
'cause it gets hard as parents.
Right.
We're navigating a lot, especiallyin this day and age with technology
and things that just didn'texist when we were coming up.

Right,

right.
So, you know, it's,it's been really great.

No, that is awesome.
That is awesome.
And listen, you know, you spoke a littlebit about it, um, the work that you do.
Mm-hmm.
We went through your bio.
Yeah.
Um, you're very busy.
Um, you have your own business.
Mm-hmm.
You're meeting and coachingpeople, you're traveling.
You have an award-winning podcastthat you're, you've created, um,

(08:39):
you have a ton of guests thatcome on, which we'll dive into.
So you're very busy.
Right.
And, and like I said, I circled thison the calendar 'cause I couldn't
wait for us to have this conversation.
Yeah.
But the question I have, you know,why did you want to come on A Black
Executive Perspective podcast?
Talk about this topic.

You know, I think this is a really human condition and I think
that this meaning, you know, ambition,stress, wanting to get to that next level.
Um, and I've seen, you know, as adaughter of immigrants, just how critical.
Family stability must be, um, regardlessof what your family looks like, I know

(09:18):
your listeners are, you know, comingfrom different backgrounds and things,
but I, I have always felt like there issuch similarity culturally even between,
um, you know, people that I meet from,from the Black American population
versus the Indian American population.
And even going back into our Africanand um, Indian roots, you know,

(09:39):
there's, there's so much crossover.
There's so much.
Even my in-laws, um, actuallytechnically are, uh, Kenyan and Ugandan.
Mm-hmm.
Um, because they were born there.
Right, right.
They, they're Indian heritage, butthey were born there and then they
had their own, um, own history that,that they've shared and, and things,
and were here in the States because,uh, they were courageous enough to,

(10:01):
to leave and start a new life here.
And my parents as well.
But there's so much crossover,really, truly, especially I think
with the what's expected of men.
So, so similar.

Right.
Right.
Well listen, you already chomping atthe bit you ready to, to dive into
it, so I'm not gonna even stop you.
Alright, let's do youready to talk about it?
My sister?

I'm so excited.
Let's do this.

Okay.
Let's talk about it.
So listen, let's, let's set this up.
You know, and you spoke a little bitabout it a minute ago when you talk
about, um, when you are out walkingthe earth and you see other families,
and obviously like you said, you don'ttry to judge anything like that, but
you can see the stress and the thingsthat people are dealing with even when
they're dealing with their own family.

(10:48):
Right.
And trust me, I could raise my hand.
I've been there as well.
Right.
And you know, one of thethings when we, and that's just
everyday individuals, right?
But when we talk abouthigh achievers mm-hmm.
Right?
Yeah.
There's an inner pressure to perform.

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Mm-hmm.
To deliver, to be more.
Right.
And a lot of times wedon't talk about that.
Right.
But in everything, youknow, there's a cost.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And that cost is affecting us.
And sometimes we give up thingsto get things right, right.
But we don't recognize the cost.
So let's talk a little bit, tellus a little bit like what's some

(11:54):
of the, the burnout signals.
That you see with high performing leaders?
Yeah.
The ones that come to youand say, Hey, I need help.
Talk a little bit about that.

Yeah.
You know, I mean, I think burnoutis a whole other level of, um,
manifestation of symptoms, right.
So we have you, you touchedon this beautifully.
Oftentimes we're not aware, and thereason we're not aware is because
we've never known any different.
Right.
The, the awareness is what is so critical.

(12:26):
Um, and I think it really solves a lotof the, because your intuition will
kick in once you are aware it can't not.

Right,

right.
Um, there will be may maybe you maynot be aware of the whisper that
your intuition says, like, oh, maybethis, maybe this is costing me.
Maybe things could be better,maybe, you know, but, but the
awareness is such, such, uh, animportant first step to make of.
How is this affecting me, thisambition, this, um, drive, it's

(13:02):
what it's effective in that it willget you to where you are, right?
You might have that title, youmight have that salary, you might
have the millions in the bank.
Um, and even if not, you may very wellhave, uh, the path to get there, but
what got you here won't get you there.
And, and working hard and doubling down.
And, you know, I see it in termsof symptoms of people pleasing,

(13:24):
uh, for women more than men.
But, you know, there is some of thatI think across the board controlling,
uh, you know, just needing to controland have the final say on everything.
Being, you know, having thoseperfectionist tendencies and the
thoughts of, well, if I don't handleit, it's not gonna get done correctly
and I'm gonna wind up doing it anyway,so let me just take care of it.
Right?
Um, there can be, I don't, I.

(13:47):
I'm trying to figure out a, a betterway to use the word victim because it's,
but it is that helplessness, right?
It, I don't think victim is necessarilythe most accurate, uh, reflection.
'cause it brings up otherconnotations, but that helplessness
of being out of control, right?
This is happening to me.
I, my boss is this way, my job is thisway, the commute is this long, my house

(14:09):
is too small, my kids don't listen.
Um, these are all kind of symptomsof things that we experience as
high achievers and we tell ourselvesthat we've gotta push through.

Right?
Right.

And, and it's, it's comes at a cost, I call it the stress tax.
83% of just the US alone is, um,reports being highly stressed and.
Most of that, um, stress actuallyis reported as, as bleeding over
into other parts of our life, right?
So the job stress is high.

(14:44):
It bleeds over into our families.
It bleeds over into our health.
It bleeds over, um, into the otherrelationships and our ability
to even have the hobbies thatwe used to have as kids, right?
Right.
So many executives and high performers,it's like, oh, I don't have time.
I used to play the piano asa kid, or I used to run, I
used to draw, I used to sing.

(15:04):
And we've, we've come away fromthis element of, of play that makes
us, uniquely us as individuals, andit costs us, we tell ourselves it
doesn't, that nobody has time for it.
Um, but, but the, the stat thatshocked me the most was that our
external circumstances only dictateabout 10% of our lived reality.

Wow.
Wow.
Let you know what, stop right there.
I wanna, I wanna, becauseyou said something.
Oh, you said a lot.

I said a lot.
All,

all good stuff though, right?
Um, but I wanna, I wanna just rememberthat point 'cause I wanna come back to
it, but I, I wanna ask you this question.
Um, so at the end of the day,how much of this is based on
what we're told when we're young?
And how were brought up, right?

(15:53):
Because at the end of the day, let'sbe fair, I, I grew up, nobody said,
well, you can just ease in the work.
Or, you know what?
You can just, you know,you ain't gotta push hard.
You'll still be successful, right?
How many cliches do we hear all the time?
It's hard work.
You gotta fight through the pain.
You have to keep going.
Persistence.
You know, one of my favorite quotes,I think it was by, uh, uh, Grover Cle

(16:14):
Rapids, a a, uh, uh, Coolidge, right?
That, you know, persistence,pe you still keep showing up.
You still keep doing it.
How much is this is the culture at work?
How many people have you seen that raisetheir hand up and say, you know what,
you're working me too hard, or, I needmore time, and they become successful.
Okay?

(16:35):
You don't see that, right?
So, right.
I mean, to be fair, wekind of created monsters.
Yes.
Okay.
To be fair.
Yeah.
And then, so a lot of times you don'tknow you a monster until the high blood
pressure or until you snap or until.
So talk a little bit about that becauseyou know, you said 80, hold on, I just

(16:57):
wanna make sure I got the stat right.
83%, excuse me, 10%, Ithink, let me get this point.
Yeah.
10% is external.
That means 10% of stuff that you don'thave control over, it affects you.
So that means what?
90, excuse me.
Uh, 90, excuse me.
10% of the, so 90, you saying 90%of all the things from all the

(17:22):
things that's rise, uh, that'sincreasing my stress hormones.
That's putting me underthe gun is self-inflicted.

Yes.
And I know that is.
A really hard thing tolook in the mirror with.

So wouldn't that be a correlation though, in terms of
how you are told to show up everyday, how you're told that the only
way you can become successful is bydoing all these things in excess?
Yeah.
Do you've been told don't cry, don't why?
Just deal with it with, sothat's the correlation, right?
That's the 90 10.

(17:56):
Wouldn't you, wouldn't you say?
Yes.

And it is costing us look at where we are as society Now, can you
honestly say, and I'm not, not to put you,you on the spot, but No, you can say, you
can put me, I'm, I'm, I'm part of the 90.
Well, and, and there's so many waysI could go with this, but first of
all, let's, let's pause here and say,when I say 90% is in your control,

(18:20):
there's a huge difference betweenblame and responsibility, right?
So we can say, well, but my mom, youknow, she, she brought me up this way.
My dad, my culture, my this, my that.
I came up.
I, I am from an immigrant family.
Okay.
We did not have much, um,in the way of privilege.
There was no, I, I'm thefirst doctor in my family.

(18:43):
Um, you know, so I, I wanna acknowledgeit is easy to sit there and say, well,
it's because of my circumstances.
Yes.
But they're not as heavily infas heavily influential as we
might want to believe, right?
Our egos will tell us that it's waymore influential than it actually is.
So what we can do is empowerourselves with taking responsibility.

(19:06):
And the beauty of thatis you don't need an app.
You don't need a subscription.
You can do it anytime, anywhere.
Cultivating an awareness for how youare thinking and how you are seeing the
world that's readily available to anyone.
The caveat is you must bewilling to do the work.
You must be willing to put in an effort.
It's not, it's, it becomes easierover time with more practice.

(19:29):
But when you first start trying tolook at the world a different way.
It, it is effort for sure.

Right.
Let me, you know, let's, let's goto, to what you just gotta finish
saying about your own background.
Okay.
And, you know, didn't grow upwith much, um, had to work hard.
You know, you, you became adentist, um, there, uh, you
became a mother, um, married.
So there was a lot of pressures Okay.

(19:58):
That you had to deal with, thatyou probably dealt with, right?
Mm-hmm.
So how did your own livedexperience and the things that
you went through, depression stuffto that nature shaped your mind?
How did you get out of that mindset?
Yeah.
And started being able totake more control back.

Yeah.
Well, and I think this kind of goesback to your earlier question, right?
What are the signs of thingslike burnout and, and things?
And that was starting to happen to me.
I, I was in the burnout phase where,you know, I was always, you know.
In Sanskrit, they're called vasanas.
Right?
They're tendencies.
So this perfectionism, this,this deep desire to not get like

(20:39):
a 99, that's not good enough.
I need to get 105.

Right?

Right.
That level of commitment and ambition anddrive, um, that had always been my mo and
it does cost, it costs us sleep, it costsus our health, it costs us all of these
things, the quality of our relationships,the amount of stress we feel.
But to your point, those are, um, it'slike they siphon very, very quietly.

(21:04):
And for me, what happenedwas I hit burnout.
And burnout is characterizedmore in just a flat out.
I cannot go on anymore.
I am too tired to, um, you know,and the things that you used to
love doing, things like, um, youknow, I, I used to love baking.

(21:25):
I used to love.
Reading just for fun.
All of these things thatI used to love doing.
And I just was like, Idon't wanna do any of it.
Now

where were you when that happened?
Were you, did that just, didyou wake up one day that way?
Or were you in the middle of a highstress moment that you finally broke down?

I think it was very, very insidious and gradual.
Um, now I will happily share my momentof reckoning, but it started out, I
remember I flipped out on a lady inline at the deli and I had only been a
doctor for two years that I had no ideathat being in a mentally and physically

(22:02):
demanding job that I didn't love wasactually taking its toll to the point.
Mm-hmm.
Where, I mean, my husband lookedat me and he was like, who are you?
Mm-hmm.
This is not the person that I know.
Like you would never flip out on anyone.
Um, and I don't evenremember what it was about.
Right.
But that was kind of looking back.
I wasn't conscious of it then,but that was sort of my first.
Experience of like, oh,maybe I need to reevaluate.

(22:24):
Well, what happens when we ignorethe signs is it's like, imagine
you're on a, a highway, right?
And your GPS says exit now.
Like, I'll send you a sign exitnow, and you don't exit and you
keep going and it says, all right,I'm gonna reroute you exit now.
Right?
So that next exit, now sign.
You know, there was justdifferent things with work.
I would consistently blame, um, patients.

(22:46):
I would blame the office location.
I would blame anything andeverything for why I was miserable.
Um, and it led to me just saying like,I'm gonna take a, take a step back.
But I didn't change my thinking.
I just took a break from work, right?
So I kept digging even though Iwasn't actually showing up to work.
Keep going down the highway at 150miles an hour and we have this baby.

(23:10):
And I remember my son.
We, there were a lot of contributing.
I.
Factors that went into meexperiencing what I did and I'm,
you know, it was an undiagnosedpostpartum anxiety and depression.
Um, but I remember him being five monthsold and I was in this noisy, drafty
apartment and he was crying and crying.

(23:32):
My back is aching.
My, my fit, my wrists areaching, my fingers are hurting my
shoulders, everything is screaming.
And somewhere around hour four ofthe crying, his and mine, 'cause at
that point I had just broken down.
I mean, you remember when yourkids were babies, you know?

Right, right.

And I remember thinking, I'm done.
If I just stopped breathing, thenoise would go away and I wouldn't
have to feel like such a failure'cause I wouldn't be here to feel it.
And I remember it was almostlike having these thoughts.
It was.
An out of body experience, right?

(24:12):
This recognition of like, ohmy gosh, what are you saying?
You know, what are you, what is happening?
And I think just the awareness of,of what that was and having this,
it was almost like I felt my futureself calling out to me going, hang
on, it's about to get so good.
Just hang on.
Just take that next breath.

(24:32):
Just take that next breath.
That's all you need to thinkabout is that next breath.
And, you know, advocating for I thinksomething's wrong was really difficult.
It's easier to deny it.
Right?
Um, my husband at the time was not to,you know, not at all to, to blame him.
It was just easier for both of us topretend that something wasn't wrong.

(24:53):
Um, but I think slowlycoming out of it that meant.
Me getting outta the house, it meant meincorporating movement back into my day.
'cause I wasn't doing that.
I was socially isolated.
Just me and my baby at home.
And my husband would go to workand come back and he was the
only person I would ever see.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and these are kind of obviousthings as you, as you think about them,
but when you're in it, they're not.

(25:14):
They're not.
No.

You're a hundred percent right.
You know, you know, there's anold saying that pigs don't know.
Pigs stink.
Yes.
Okay.
When you're in the Pigpen,everything seems normal.
As soon as you get out thePigpen, the first thing you say
is, what's that funky smell?
Okay, so you're a hundred percent right.
So how did you elevate out of it?
And then more importantly, then createda business to help other people,

(25:39):
especially high achievers, becausethat's really nine times outta 10.
Those are the individuals that, and I,I'll be honest with you, not everything
that you went through is verbatimfor me, but I I've been through that.
Right, right.
And I've seen a bunch ofpeople go through that.
So talk a little bit about that.

Yeah.
Well, and I think that's justreally, it is, you, you mentioned
this idea of working hard, right.
And we, we believe that that's what we'retaught is work hard and you're gonna get
the results that you want and it costs.
So what I think people don'tknow is that you don't have to.
I want you guys to, toreally listen to this.

(26:18):
When I say you don't have towork hard, you do not have to
work hard by way of knowing allthe answers and grinding it out.
You do have to show up consistently.
There will be times where it ischallenging, some days will be harder

(26:39):
than others, but you don't needto kill yourself or have all the
answers in order to get, not only towhere you wanna go, but beyond where
you ever thought possible, right?
And so when I, you know, it wasa, a surreal experience for me to
listen to you share my intro withthe audience because no way would I

(27:01):
have ever been able to predict all ofthat being true and me feeling really
good about it and not having thatself-doubt about, oh, I don't know, you
know, that, that doesn't seem right.
I don't know that I'm qualified.
No.
Um, I think.
When I first decided to stoppracticing dentistry, I remember

(27:21):
my son was eight and he kept askingme, mommy, what are you gonna do?
What are you gonna do now?
What are you gonna do now?
And I didn't know, and I thinkwe tell ourselves as high, high
achievers, who by the way, we gotto where we are by having a plan.

There's no question,

right?
I know I need to do well in school,and then I need to get into university.
When I get into university, I needto take this exam so I can get into
my MBA or I can get into my lawschool or medical school or what.
Like we know exactly what exams we needto do well on, what classes we need
to do to prepare us for that outcome.
Um, and I'm not saying thatthat doesn't have value, right?

(27:58):
It, it is not a, an exclusiveeither this or that.
It is a yes and scenario.
So for me, this looked like, andfor my clients, what they, what they
discover for themselves to be true.
'cause they don't haveto have all the answers.
Their plan needs to be, uh, morefocused on, alright, how can

(28:19):
I feel at ease in the moment?
How can I actually feelconfident in the moment?
Um, even when I don't know the answers,when things feel out of control, um,
getting clear on when am I in judgment?
When am I having this strong desire todig deeper and push harder and learning
to ease up, because that's physiologicallywhen your brain can make those

(28:43):
executive decisions a little bit better.
Right?
When we're stressed, we're focusingonly on, we're only able to use the
lower part of our nervous system.
So our decision making is affected.
We're not able to see all theopportunities in front of us.
And importantly, we fool ourselves intothinking that the opportunities in front
of us are gonna get us to where we want.

(29:07):
Right,

right.

But for me, what happened was I had no idea and I just took it, you
know, some days it was one day at a time.
Other, you know, just trusting.
And I know that sounds veryamorphous and very, we want the
plan, we want a step by step.
But guys, your greatest expression ofwho you are, that is a divine plan.

(29:32):
That's a divine plan.
That's why it's not clear to youright now as you are stressed, as you
are navigating all of these things.
So when you stop and slow down andsay, all right, and, and an example
for me is I wanted to go backand, and do yoga teacher training.
Um, that's what I triedto do, tried to do.
And the universe keptshutting me down, right?

(29:52):
For whatever reason, I neveractually, still to this day
have done yoga teacher training.
But what did come throughwas going to coaching school.
I was getting coached myself, andthen I'd finished with my engagement
with my coach, and then I had anotherfriend reach out and she said, you
know, I'm gonna do this coaching thing.
It was during the pandemic.
And she said, I think you wouldreally enjoy it even if you don't

(30:15):
want to become a professional coach.
Um, and then through that and social mediaposting and things like, I, I did go to
coaching school and turns out coaching isjust all the theoretics of yoga applied.
Right, right.
It's not the actual physicalpose, but it's the non-judgment.
It's the, the non-violence, the, thedo no harm, the, all of those things.

(30:37):
Um, and I, I don't, Iwound up publishing a book.
I never thought I would do that.
That was literally,these things just happen.
They fall into place.
Because what happens is you startthinking more authentically.
And the universe, quantum physics.
I know it sounds really, again, somepeople might, might dismiss this as,

(31:00):
um, illogical or fluff, but really thequantum physics and, and how this works
is you start tapping into a higherfrequency of existence and then what you
actually want to create will find you.
Right, right.
But there has to be a frequencymatch and then it just happens.
It's called the Law of Least Effort.
And a book that I'd love to recommendto, to, um, your listeners is Deepak

(31:24):
Chopra's book, the Seven Laws ofSpiritual Success or something like that.
I have it on my, one of my kids might,might have it, I don't know, but it's,
the Seven Laws of Spiritual Successis, I believe what it's called.
It's a short book.
It's like seven bucks on Amazon.
But it, he does a beautiful job ofexplaining why it's so critically
important to, to stop forcing ourway through and just be present with

(31:47):
what is now so that you can actually.
Easefully create what it is thatyou want and what's meant for you,

you know?
So number one, thank you for that.
It, and unfortunately, itseems you have to, you have
to, you have to get broke down.
Okay.
You have to, you know, get to apoint where, what's that old famine,
Lou Hamer saying, I, I'm sick andtired of being sick and tired.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Uh, because I would imagine most ofyour, um, um, uh, clients are people who.

(32:21):
Fit that bill.
Yeah.
Versus somebody who comes in and says,you know what, before I get started with
this stuff, I wanna make sure that I'min alignment and stuff to that nature.
Nine times outta 10, that doesn't happen.
Right?
No, it ha You have to get to a point,like, with your own, uh, personal
story and my own story and everybodyelse's story where you get to a point

(32:43):
because you don't know that you'regonna break and you may hear it and,
and, and people may tell you you'redoing too much or take a step back.
I, I could imagine you probably hadfriends and family telling you at
the same time, look, see much chill.
It's gonna be okay.
And you're looking at 'em like,what are you talking about?
Okay.
So I, I, I think, you know,people sometimes they have

(33:03):
to, you know, hit rock bottom

Yeah.

Before they get to that point.
But go ahead.
You were gonna, you were gonna interject.

No, I, I was just gonna agree.
But you know, the, the thing abouthigh achievers is we're often
surrounded by other high achievers.
So,

and this is so true.
It's so true, right?
So, and then the people who are nothigh achievers saying, Hey, you need
to chill out, you looking at them.
That's why you sitting where you are.
Get outta my face.
No, no.
So then that's our mindset, right?
Yeah.
So it becomes tough to do unless you getto that point where you are like, because
we, and look, I re and, and I love thespirituality because to me, and that's

(33:39):
biblical right, is at some point you gottalet this, you gotta let it go, right?
Yeah.
And you gotta give it to Godand you gotta keep moving.
And I remember I had a situation,this was years ago, man, where I was,
I was, I mean, pulling, burning thecandle at both ends of the stick.
And I remember being at work.
I never forgot this.

BEP Narrator (34:01):
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That challenge inspireand lead the change.

And it came to a point where everything seemed
like it was crashing down on me.
Mm-hmm.
All at one time.
Yeah.
And I remember I left workin the middle of the day.
I just left and I went home.
And my mother-in-law, this was my firstmarriage, my mother-in-law was there.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, we had a good relationship,but we wasn't all that tight.

(34:40):
But I walked through the door andshe said, why are you home from work?
And I went up to her and I huggedher and I cried uncontrollably.
Yeah.
For a good 10 50.
I mean, every, and I'm, andthis is a person who didn't cry.
This is a person who wastaught men shouldn't cry.

(35:03):
Mm-hmm.
You know, it's weakness if you cry.
All those things.
I held all that in.
And then fell into her arms and crieduncontrollably for 10 to 15 minutes.
Okay.
I was at my bottom and Iremember her saying to me, Tony,

(35:24):
you gotta give this to God.
You gotta give it to Jesus.
And I mean that I, and I felt a lift.
Mm-hmm.
Come off my, you know, soback to the rock bottom.
I get it.
I totally get it.
Right.
So talk a little bit about your clientsand some of the things that you prescribe

(35:49):
them to be able to do to slowly.
'cause I love the law.
You know, there's a book I readcalled the, um, it was, the Law
is, I forget it was by Bob Berg.
Mm-hmm.
It was a different law though.
It was the same law, but a different, um.
Uh, nomenclature.
It was called the law left field.
Okay.
That you put all this energy out, right.

(36:11):
And you're expecting itto come from this way.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
But then all of a sudden itcomes from over here and be boom.
And you're like, and thenpeople are like, you were lucky.
No, I wasn't lucky that, that'sme putting all this energy out.
So talk a little bit about someof the things you've prescribed.
Yeah.
To a person like me who was broke down,who cried uncontrollably, high achiever,

(36:33):
talk to me, doc, what would you do?
I get an, do I take an apple, I getan aspirin, or you know what, what I'm
saying, Tylenol, go home, talk to me.

And, and that's the thing, right?
Is I, I talk so much about awareness, butwhat you do with that awareness, right?
Recognizing for you in that moment, cominghome to your mother-in-law and crying, you
know, you kind of hinted at this questionearlier, do we need to hit rock bottom?
I think for some of us, especiallyhigh achievers, we do have to kind of.

(37:03):
Have that bottom, we need to havesomething that's the impetus for change.
Um, and then for some of us, it couldbe just, you know, a friend having
a triple bypass surgery at age 40and that's the, oh my God, I don't
wanna, you know, leave my wife andkids, um, at, at such a young age.
It, it, it could look like rock bottomcan look like and feel like very different

(37:24):
things for very different people.
So it doesn't mean that you're justgonna wind up in the hospital or behind
bars and that's your rock bottom.
Right.
Right.
So, so I wanna acknowledge, you know,what, what that looked like for you.
Yes.
The, that narrative of, youknow, we don't cry and big girls
don't cry and big boys don't cry.
Especially when the expectations and,and we don't have the privilege as people

(37:47):
of color, we don't have that margin.
Right.
No, we've gotta overperform No, we gotta

overperform over.

Exactly.
And so I wanna acknowledgethat that is true.
And also, and also.
90% is up to us.
And so we have tocultivate this awareness.
Just, you know, but then not judgeourselves for when that happens.
And I'll give you an example.

(38:16):
Um, say my son sayssomething to me, right?
And I feel like it's not what I wantedto hear, or maybe I, you know, whatever
the situation is, and we get into alittle bit of back and forth, right?
That is a result of mebeing in judgment of him.

(38:36):
Now, you can hold a boundary, and this is,this is a, you know, it's a learned skill.
I want to reiterate to listeners, thisis not something that, it is intuitive,
but it's, it's something that youneed to cultivate and strengthen.
Um, but recognizing when you'rein judgment, I don't like what
this person is saying or doing.
I, you know, I, this isright or wrong, good or bad.

(38:59):
Um, helpful, not helpful.
This is, you know, hard or easy.
Those are all judgements.
And when we sit there and we say, oh,man, I, I shouldn't have snapped at him.
I shouldn't have, uh, what, youknow, reacted in the way that I did.
Now I'm judging myself for judging myself.

(39:21):
Right?
And that's, that's kind ofwhere I actually am Earlier.
It was just recognizinglike, oh, I got mad.
Okay.
Instead of being upset for getting mad,or upset for being stressed, or upset
for whatever, however you reacted, justrecognize in, in your moment, I'm there

(39:41):
and I'm crying with my mother-in-law.
That doesn't make me weak.
That doesn't make me less capable,that doesn't mean anything other than
I need to be here now, be present.
If I'm feeling sad, I'm feeling sad.
If I'm feeling like I wannacry, that is a human reaction.

It's okay.
It's okay.

You would never blame a lion for roaring or a zebra for having stripes.
Crying is a human thing, so wedon't need to make it a problem.
Right?
So that's kind of where I start to,that's where we get ourselves as
high achievers is it's not only theawareness, oh this is, these are the

(40:25):
patterns that are creating my, my issues.
But now I'm gonna judge myselffor having those patterns, even
though I quote unquote know better.
Well, no, we're learning,we're rewiring our brains.
So you know that that is something that Ithink most people tend to, to fall off on.

So would that be like the first step?
So if we had to, and again,everybody's situation is different.
Okay, sure.
As you acknowledge, right?
But if they hit rockbottom wherever they are.
Right.
And now they wanna start making change.
Mm-hmm.
Is the first step just reallyacknowledging that you're a human being.
Yeah.
And not, you know, that it is what it is.

(41:04):
Yeah.
And not to judgeyourself, um, and be okay.
Recognize that you are you, isthat the, that's what I'm hearing
here, is that the first step?

Absolutely.
It, that's absolutely it.
Where you are, you would not, youknow, you would not get to where
you are divinely meant to be withoutbeing here now in this moment.
Acknowledge that.
Accept it.
I'm, you know, I'm at rock bottom.
Okay.
Anybody look at, look out thereat anybody who's done anything
great ever, never is there.

(41:36):
And I try to stay away from neverand always, but I think, you know, we
can safely say, never do these peoplewho have accomplished amazing things,
never have they said, oh, it was easy.
All the time.
I never had any challenges.

And that's a fair, that's an excellent point, right.
Is that, you know, a lot of timeswe think that God frowned on us.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
That our situation is everybodyelse is living and, and, and
enjoying themselves and, and they'renot dealing with these issues.

(42:10):
And it is only me.
Yeah.
Okay.
And you are a hundred.
And then so we put ourselves on an island.
Right.
And you know, Gilligan'sstill waiting to be rescued.
Absolutely.
Okay.
Yeah.
Because at the end of the day, wedon't recognize that other people
are dealing with the exact sameissues, maybe even worse, to be fair.

(42:31):
Right.
Right.
So talk a little bit about how one ofyour, your, your, your, your clients Yeah.
Made one simple change that createda ripple effect in their life mm-hmm.
Where they went from rock bottom andthen now they're over and they are
just in, you know, heaven and, and Idon't wanna say heaven, but they've

(42:54):
really turned their situation around.

Yeah.
Well, and you, first of all, Ithink we create our self-created
hell or self, self-created heaven.
Really, truly.
Um, so, and there's so many client storiesthat just flooded my brains, uh, my
brain when you, when you ask that, but.
You know, I'll sharereally two quick ones.
One I just had coached, um, this femalephysician, she was up for a promotion

(43:20):
and, you know, from an Asian background.
And she's like, well, youknow, I'm up for this thing.
If I take it, I'm gonnabe away from my kids more.
I'm gonna be seeing patientsless, but I don't wanna tell my
parents, you know, that I turneddown a promotion and a pay raise.
Like, what kind of, what is that?

(43:42):
That's opposite of whatthey taught me to do.
Um, and, and, you know, watching herand coaching her through so that she
could recognize, oh my gosh, taking thispromotion would mean that I would be
living a life that I didn't wanna live.
I want time with my kids.

(44:02):
I want to see my patients.
I want to be able to have bandwidth tomaybe do some gardening on the weekends.
And if I say yes to this promotion, I'msaying no to all of those things that by
accepting that promotion, then I wouldsay, oh, I'm gonna grumble about the fact
that I can't garden and this and that.
Right?

(44:22):
So you've gotta make a choice.
And I, I really don't like theword compromise, because when
you're making an empowered choice,no longer is it a compromise.
A compromise means thatyou're giving up on something.
Right?

Right,

right.
No, we wanna make empowered choices andthey may not be choices that we like.
You know, I don't wanna pay taxesnecessarily, but when I pay taxes,
I wanna be grateful that I had anincome that I, you know, had ways to,
you know, that there's things thatthe government does for us, right?
Like there's a system in place.

(44:57):
So even, even something likepaying taxes, nobody wants to pay
taxes, but you can still infuse.
Uh, an empowerment there.
A, a a level of gratitude.
No, I'm, I'm doing this with not, it'snot what you do, it's how you do it.
Right.
Well,

I think, I think also though, you said the key thing though.
I, I really, which I really, you know,I'm just sitting here thinking as you,
as you stated it, you said, I want, yeah.
Right.
I want, I want a garden.
I, so if I do this thing.
If I get this, yeah.
It'll be okay.
Yeah.
But it's not gonna give me what I want.
Yeah.

(45:32):
Right.
That's gonna make mehappy as an individual.
Right.
And so I think that's a huge, and I don't,I don't think a lot of times we go to
that, we go to, well, I'm gonna take it.
You know, it is not really what Ireally wanna do, but you know what?
I feel I have to do it.
Alright.
So we start compromising and then nextthing you know, we're down a rabbit hole.

(45:52):
Yeah.
Okay.
Because it's not what we want, it'ssomething we think we need to do.
Right?
Yeah.
And so, and here's the other thing.
Let me, well, let me hear you a second.
Let a second.
Uh, yeah.
Just forget,

you know, the, the question I get is, how long does it
take for me to feel the effects of this?
Yeah.
Right?
And they think, people think becauseit's a new skill, it's gonna take time.
The beauty of this is, it's an instant.
I had a client once who said,um, you know, we had just
started coaching together.
She wound up.
At a, a, her company was sponsoringa golf tournament and she said,

(46:24):
I hate going to these things.
I'm not really great at golf.
I don't enjoy it.
I always feel, you know,insert all of her reasons.
And what's, what happened was she woundup at this golf tournament and somebody,
she was one of the few women there, oneof the other women came up to her and
made a, an off-color remark about, youknow, her golf game and what that meant

(46:48):
as far as what kind of worker she was.
And it was this whole thing.
And she said, you know, in that moment,because we had just come off of a coaching
session and I had guided her through, um,I call my framework crossing the bridge.
So it's three steps.
Um, the first step is creatingawareness for when you are in
what I call guard mode, right?
Any icky feeling, any sense of stress.

(47:09):
Um, when you're feeling embarrassed,when you're feeling worried, when you're
feeling, you know, any type of stress.
That's your breadcrumb.
To shift, right?
So she said, all right.
I knew that what this person said wasgonna stress me out, so I excused myself.
And then she went througha couple of techniques.

(47:30):
There's various things you can do, breathwork, you can do tapping, you can, um,
you know, you can pray, you can meditate,you can uh, even do some movement
with some light running something.
Um, but I, she had a set of things thatshe practiced and in that coming back
and centering her nervous system backinto, um, the parasympathetic right, not

(47:54):
the non-stressed, she was able to haveher nervous system come back online.
And her intuition then kickedin and she said, you know what?
That person's remarks, that's aboutthem and their own insecurities.
That has nothing to do with me.
And so she was able to come backand she said, you know what?
I just didn't let it bother me and Iplayed the best golf game of my life, and

(48:17):
I actually closed a deal in the process.

Wow, awesome.
And, you know,

so we, we can actually perform better if we just have that
awareness and don't judge ourselves.
Our intuitions will kick inand take care of the rest.

I love that story.
I love those stories.
I love your energy.
I love everything thatyou're bringing to the table.
My sister.
And, and so you, when we went backto the stats, when you said 90% Yeah.
Is within our control and 10% is what?
That right there epitomizes that.
Right?
Because that was a mindsetsh that was a mindset shift.

(48:51):
And that was, let me take a step back.
Mm-hmm.
Let me get my thoughts.
This ain't about me.
This is about that person.
I'm not gonna let thatperson steal my joy.
And that was a choice.
Yes.
Right.
And so what I'm hearing is a lot ofthese things is stuff that we can change.
And I love what you said.
That was instant, you know,not instant, but it was fast.

(49:15):
Right?
Right.
And so that is awesome, and I cansee why, um, you're so successful.
And matter of fact, I'm gonna have to seeif I can, you know, get an appointment.
Right.
So I can come in, you can sit downand talk to the tidbit, and so we
can, you know, you can help me out.
Right.
Let me ask you this final thoughts.
What do, well, let me, before wego to final thoughts, let's, let's

(49:36):
do, let me ask you this question.
Do you think people of color mm-hmm.
Do they have a harder timein terms of letting go?
Especially I'm talking to high achievers.
Mm-hmm.
Because you, you know, you saidsomething earlier, which is so true.
Right.
We feel that we have to worktwice as hard as everyone else.
We feel that if we don't show upand look a certain way or speak a

(49:59):
certain way, we're being judged.
It's gonna, it's going to hamperour ability to move forward.
We feel that if we can't, if we, if wetook our foot off the gas, like some of
our colleagues and stuff, we wouldn'tget recognized for opportunities, right?
If we don't take care of our kids acertain way, they're gonna be, uh, you
know, uh, stereotyped or generalized asthis and that, or we're not gonna be,

(50:23):
you know, this is what this group ofparents do, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Talk.
Tell me a little bit about that.
What's your thoughts on that?

I believe the more and more I do this work, it is critical
to be very careful of that narrative.
Because while it may be true that,look, I'm gonna acknowledge society as
it is right now, it is not equitable.
It is not equitable for people of color.

(50:52):
It is not equitable for, forwomen, it is not equitable.
Um, in, in many, many other ways.
Right?
People with disabilities, peoplewho don't identify in this, in the
cisgender, heteronormative, likethere are all sorts of inequities.
And also if we allow ourselves to keepfeeding into this, what we're doing

(51:15):
is giving that 10% a lot of power.

Mm-hmm.
And what we

focus on gets bigger.

Mm-hmm.

So there's an art to a yes and acknowledge, but then understand
how much power we actually do have.
Mm-hmm.
Because what happens then is when we, andI'll, and I'll give you um, an example.
I was just last week sitting ata table with three white men.
And I had a moment of, I don'tknow what I'm doing at this table.

(51:44):
I don't know that I'm goingto resonate with any of 'em.
Even though most of the people in the roomI knew were, were, they're change makers.
Right.
I inherently, the populace was not a crosssection of, of the general population.
Right,

right, right, right.

But even within that, there was a moment of, Ooh, I don't know.
And when I just acknowledged it and said,I'm gonna be myself, what happened was two
of those men came up to me separately andsaid, I really enjoyed our conversation.
And that, that meaningfulconnection, that's all we want.

(52:20):
So when we can show up for ourselvesout of non-judgment and compassion and
acceptance, and then we're fully vibrantand alive, then and only then can we, we
can't control what other people say or do.
Right.
But we can.
Right, right.
We can create an environmentwhere the other person feels
psychologically safe to maybe take down.
Their walls a little bit and facilitatereal, commun real connection and

(52:44):
communication that crosses gender,that crosses orientation or skin color.
And if you're still shut down, I wantlisteners, I want you to hear this.
The universe is activelycontriving for you to succeed.
It is actively contrivingfor you to succeed.

(53:06):
So if there's a, a littleresistance there, that's what
I meant by not working hard.
Don't fight the resistance pivot.
That's your sign to shift because thecurrent of the universe will carry you
forward beyond what you think you can do.
I

love it.
I love it.
I love it.
My girl.
Preach.
Tell 'em what time it is, Sima.
No, that is awesome my girl.
And thank you for that becauseyou are a hundred percent right.
Um, any anything else you wanna leave?
'cause you just left a bomb right there.
And I think that shouldresonate to any everyone who's

(53:41):
listening and watching this.
Anything else?
My sister.

Uh, no.
Not, I mean, I, I think I love to talkso I don't wanna overwhelm and I think
I'm just gonna stop it right there.
I welcome any questions or feedbackor, you know, anything like that.
I'm on social, so if anybody wantsto reach out and pick, pick my
brain on something I've said here.
I'm, I welcome that.

Well, listen, you've been given so much.
Today, how can A Black ExecutivePerspective podcast help you?

Well, um, I have two things.
One, I'm actively looking forspeaking roles and things like that.
Like I, I am developing twokeynotes, um, and I love speaking.
I love connecting with people this way.
Podcasting is just thevirtual way of doing that.
And so if there's, if there's anything,any of your listeners have an event that

(54:32):
you'd like me to, to be at, um, reach out.
And then the other thing too is ifyou're looking for one-on-one support,
um, Tony, you know this, you and I'vetalked about it, the Energy Leadership
Index assessment, um, and, and debrief.
This is such a great way to get a handleon very many of the things we talked
about in this podcast episode today.
It's about managing your energy.

(54:52):
Right.
And so anyone can take an assessment,but this is not a, a strengths finder.
This is not a personality test.
This is literally a map of your energyand how you show up in situations
when you're stressed, when you're notstressed, and how you're making decisions.
So when we can get an awareness ofthis, and then you get guided through
a, in a private session with me,here's what, here's what we know

(55:15):
now, what do you wanna do about it?
You can create a bespoke action planto help you actually get to that
next level and make, make decisionsabout what's gonna actually serve
you and what you wanna put down.
Um, I've had some incredible clientclient stories that just, even just
in the one session, if they never evenget a full 12 session package that I

(55:37):
offer for private coaching, even theone session is really, really helpful.
So if you're interested in lookingat that or learning more about
that, it's dr sema desai.com/
EI.
And I'm sure, Tony, you're gonnahave this in the show notes as well.

There's no question.
Say that.
Say the website again.

It's dr Seema Desai.com.
So D-R-S-E-E-M-A-D-E-S-A i.com/e
LI.

That is awesome, my girl.
Thank you so much for yourenergy, your expertise, your
love of your fellow human being.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I am so happy that you are on A BlackExecutive Perspective podcast today.
You filled my spirit up.

(56:25):
You gave me a lot of different antidotesto be able to utilize, and so I'm
recommending that anyone that wants toknow more definitely dive into sema, check
her out at her website, um, and also leaveus feedback and stuff to that nature.
But I wanna thank Dr.
Sema Desai for appearing on A BlackExecutive Perspective podcast.

Thank you guys so much for having me.

So now I think it's time for Tony's tidbit and the tidbit today.
Burnout doesn't prove your worth.
It proves you've been given too much tothings that will never love you back.
Choose peace over proving.
And you heard a lot of that.

(57:09):
From our friend, Dr.
Seema Desai so don't forget to check out.
This week's Need To Know by Dr.
Nsenga Burton on A BlackExecutive Perspective podcast.
Dr.
Burton dies into the timely andcrucial topics that shape our
community and world, things thatyou don't have time to check out.
You can watch her or listen to her,and she'll educate you and deepen your

(57:32):
understanding of the issues that matter.
You don't want to miss.
Need to know by Dr.
Nsenga Burton on A BlackExecutive Perspective podcast.
And definitely don't missour next episode of Pull Up.
Speak Up.
Where our round table dives intothe most provocative issues.
We have bold, unfiltered voicesthat have sharp perspectives.

(57:53):
This is real talk.
These are everyday individualssharing their perspectives
on the things that matter.
Tune in.
It's not just a re uh, aepisode, it's a revolution.
So as most of you know, and for thosewho don't, if this is your first time
listening or watching A Black ExecutivePerspective podcast, our goal, our
call to action, our mission is todecrease all forms of discrimination.

(58:19):
And the way we're asking everyone todo this is with the acronym called
less, LESS and L stands for learn.
You wanna educate yourself on racialand cultural nuances, the more that
you can learn about people that youdon't know is going to enlighten you.

(58:40):
And then after you learn, you have theletter E, which stands for empathy.
Now since you've learned, now youcan put yourself in your other
brothers and sisters shoes 'cause youunderstand where they're coming from.
And then after empathy, you havethe first S, which is share.
Now you wanna share what you've learnedand the new insights you have to other

(59:04):
people so they can become enlightened.
And then the fight os is Stop.
We wanna stop.
You wanna stop discriminationas it walks in your path.
So if I.
Or Uncle Joe says something at theSunday dinner table that's inappropriate.
You say, aunt Jenny, uncleJoe, we don't believe that.

(59:26):
We don't say that.
And you stop it right there.
So if everyone can incorporate less, LESSwill build a more fair, more understanding
world and we'll all see the change that wewanna see, because less will become more.
Don't forget to follow A Black Executive'sPerspective podcast on YouTube, apple,

(59:50):
Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast.
And you can follow us on our socialsof LinkedIn, X YouTube, TikTok,
Instagram, Facebook at a blackexec for our fabulous guests, Dr.
Seema Desai.
Want to thank her?
Uh, I'm your co.
I'm your host, Tony Tidbit.
We talked about it.

(01:00:11):
We learned about it today.
We laughed about it.
We're still going to strive about it.
And guess what?
We are gonna be a lot easier,but we're gonna thrive about it.
We love you.
And now it's time for us to get out
A Black Executive Perspective.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}You’re Not Lazy—You’re Burnt Out