115: The Milton Florida Murders, Part 1 - The Devil Is In The Details

In this listener request series, we shed light on a little known yet brutal series of murders which occurred in the small town of Milton, Florida in 1998... one that our own Becky actually grew up in! We jump straight into the crime spree of perpetrators Jeremiah Rodgers and Jonathan Lawrence, beginning with the murder of Lawrence's cousin Justin Livingston. Following some 3D Doritos and small-town petty drama, we arrive at the day of Jennifer Robinson's date with Jeremiah Rodgers... the last day she is seen alive.

Episode Transcript

(00:14):
I'm going to jail for this. I'm going to die and that starts
us on the sad tail. Jennifer Robinson.
Robinson. Not Davis.
This is Jen. This is Becky.
This is too close to home. Welcome.
Welcome, I do love a story aftermy own namesake.
Yes, but not this. You know you don't want to be

(00:36):
this Jennifer. Not this.
Yeah, not this one. So I'm going to start us off
with our sources. Let.
Me scroll all the way down here.We have case text case Lawrence
First States Library law, FSU Digital collection, P&J Story
News Crime 2018 Florida Supreme Court and the book Flesh

(01:01):
collectors, Cannibalism and Further depravity on the Redneck
Riviera by Fred Rosen. Listen, if the title doesn't
catch your attention, I don't know what will.
So. We're going to, I'm going to
tell you a little fun fact aboutthis story.
One, this was a listener request, so this is being
covered. By request of a listener in case

(01:23):
listener request wasn't a good enough description and then he
didn't understand it. We're here, if anything, for
education, OK? Science, math, reading.
Where we got you exactly completely understandable
sentences, We can help you. Yeah, I've never misspoken in my
life, have you? Not when I've never known her to

(01:44):
be wrong. I've never known you either.
No shit. So we in for a good time.
And the other fun fact is this happened in the town I grew up
in, Literally the streets they talk about driven down 100
times, the field they talk about.
You could have been on the IDT episode of Just like happening
to know That because listen, sometimes on those like IDTV
episodes or Oxygen true crime episodes, that person might not

(02:07):
have anything to do with the case of them being in a vicinity
and they end up on it. And you could have two Becky.
Well, unfortunately I was only in middle school when this
happened, so. I mean, you're still in the same
town, so that I still just like base qualifications.
It was one year before I startedhigh school so y'all disregard
the dates. Remember 21.
The time like, did you remember during the time that it was like

(02:30):
or hear about it? I don't, I remember hearing
about it a couple years later, but I did learn through covering
this that it never gained national media coverage and it
never really gained local media media coverage.
It was very quiet kept and I think it was because of the it's
such a small town that I grew upin.

(02:52):
They were kind of southern town.Yes, that if too much publicity
arose around it, it would reallyaffect the tiny little town that
it was. Which makes sense.
Look at The Amityville Horror and how that affected that
community. So much of the the house changed
its windows and those iconic eyewindows, they completely changed

(03:13):
them out because people kept bothering the people that lived
in the house. Yeah, I was like, the ghosts
aren't bothering you though. They could be nice.
They could be nice. I don't know, Becky.
I've watched quite a few renditions of The Amityville
Horror. Well I've never watched it so I
sound like I misspeaking. My only real encounter with

(03:35):
ghosts is the show Ghosts and they're all friendly so.
They're all wonderful. They aren't them.
So enough talking. We'll dive right in because this
is going to be a long episode. The second, it's going to be two
parts. The second part's going to be
longer. I mean, so about this, it's
like, it's almost like you're a beat cop, like telling me this,
this is your hometown. You know this.
You know this beat. That's right.

(03:57):
I can give you a little side, you know, stories that you don't
want to hear. I do.
But I'm here for him. I love those stories.
On April 9th, 1998, Jeremiah Rogers and Jonathan Lawrence
were just a couple average 20 somethings sitting around a
bonfire in a small town of Milton, FL.
And when I tell you a small townand bonfires, Been there, done

(04:18):
them. Both men did not have much
ambition in life, but they did share a host of mental health
illnesses. Like us.
Oh my God. No, no.
Worse. Yeah.
Both had already spent time being institutionalized in
mental health facilities. They'd even spent time at

(04:38):
Chattahoochee, a very well knownmental health facility in
Florida that specialized in treating the criminally insane.
Now way down younger too. Were you familiar with
Chattahoochee? Ever heard of growing up or
anything? Way down young or on the
Chattahoochee, it gets hotter than a coochie coochie.
Not that one, but. That's the only that's the only
Chattahoochee, But this one sounds.

(04:59):
Yeah, I don't know about this one.
Growing up in this town, I knew of Chattahoochee.
It was a place that young peoplewould jest about when a friend
was acting crazy and you'd say you need to be in Chattahoochee.
So like that in Georgia, like was like Milledgeville, my great
grandmother wouldn't say where she was from because there was
like a sanity asylum immiligible.

(05:21):
And so that's what the town was known for.
I saying I'm from there. I'm surprised you never heard of
it, but maybe we ran in different circles.
Well, I did end up splitting up and going into Georgia like when
I was 16, so yeah, maybe I just didn't have enough time to learn
about the local sanity asylums. It's a shame it.

(05:42):
Is really is I I would love to spend all my time in them now
it's. Probably a good.
Thing because you would have been down there visiting and
stuff. I would have been like, this is
a free tour, say less. That's what your family said
when they dropped you off. That she kind of left.
She got a strange e-mail from a Nigerian Prince saying that
there was a free tour at this abandoned facility.

(06:04):
Bye say less. On the afternoon of the ninth,
Lawrence called his cousin, 20 year old Justin Livingston.
Justin hung out with Lawrence regularly, but Rogers hated
Justin. Justin also suffered with mental
illness and could not function without mental health
medications. His mental illnesses hit him in
high school and he would have hallucinations and he did not

(06:27):
like them. They say the harm like isn't it
like teenage and in the 20s whena lot of mental illness gets
discovered? Especially schizophrenia, which
he had and he was perfectly normal and then had an episode,
ended up in the mental health facility and he told his mom
when he started taking medications, everything went
away. And he told her, like, I hated

(06:49):
that. I hated seeing things and
hearing things. And so he was very religious
about taking his medications. I would also not to like to hear
and see things. I think that's why I've never
done shrooms so. Same he would take his
medications. On I love that like people are
just been offering us rooms. No one's ever offered us rooms.
Nobody's ever offered me free drugs, you know, like dare told

(07:10):
me that they were going to offerme stuff not once, not once, not
once. No one ever put it in my
Halloween candy either. Damn it.
I know, bunch of buzz kills. Very misleading.
So he would take his medicationson a regular basis and he never
missed a dose. According to his mother, Justin
would regularly visit his cousinand bum anything from soda to

(07:31):
smokes or whatever else he couldget.
This is what annoyed Rodger so much and why he did not like
him. Plus, he said Justin was always
around and his constant, constant presence and bombing
just annoyed him. He wanted Justin out of the
picture, but not just out of thepicture.
He wanted to take Justin out. It didn't take much convincing,

(07:53):
and Lawrence agreed. Lawrence's birthday was coming
up, so they decided to invite Justin over and kill him.
Oh my God, what a great birthdaypresent.
I know Justin was in his 20s buthe only had the mindset of a 12
year old. So a.
Simple birthday party excited him, they said.
He's such. A mean like.

(08:13):
Oh, my trap, yeah. It's worse, I didn't even go
into all the details of some of it because it was just too sad.
Plus the kids name was Justin. That's exactly how I feel right
now. Like, yes, the fact you keep
saying Justin, and I'm so used to you talking about you're
Justin that I'm thinking I'm just picturing him in my mind
and then it makes me feel violent because yes, why would
you do this, baby? Yes, and this all happened on

(08:36):
April 9th and my Justin's birthday is April 10th.
Yeah, so I had a hard time with some of.
It I don't blame you. Justin was so excited about the
party that he went, got dressed up in his best Pearl snap and
cowboy boots and headed over. Now the cowboy boots that he
wore over there were these really fancy cowboy boots his
mom had bought him for graduation, and he only wore

(08:57):
them. For the best occasion.
Yes. So it's really like sad because
he was just getting all dolled up.
He thought he was about to go have him a good old time.
Right. And he was not.
Let me look my best for my friend's birthday.
And This is why I'm so protective of my Justin when
Justin got there, there what andthen.
To make it worse, the cousin's house that he was going to, his

(09:18):
name was Jonathan. What?
I'm like, are you kidding? No, when just some say this
would be too close to home. I feel like we should have like
the law and order Dun Dun after we say too close to home, but I
don't know what that would be. I don't either, but we do.

(09:41):
We'll task Jimmy on that. He's not doing anything.
Yeah, he he, he's got time on his hands.
Nothing but time. That's what we pay that one
penny every once in a while for.That's right, like Becky says.
But I give him my two cents all the time.
All the time. When Justin got there, there was
no party going on and he was confused, but they reassured

(10:01):
him. That it was later in the day and
they were just going to sit downand hang out.
So to paint you a picture, Jonathan lived on what the
detective were referred to as a compound.
It was a big area of land and there was a bunch of different
trailers on it. That family lived.
In nothing ever sounds good about a comp when you use the
word compound. Nothing ever sounds.

(10:23):
Some some crimes are happening. Most.
I've never heard of anything referred to as a compound and it
was positive. No, no, not once.
Not once. So when Justin gets there, they
go outside, they're sitting and.If you grew up in a small town
in the country, you know that a lot of people.
Will come and go off the property.

(10:45):
Especially if it's white trash. I don't know if that's PC to say
anymore, but it is what it. Is well listen, that's my
people's and I feel like it's appropriate.
Proud of that, OK, I'm from Florida, OK.
And my family, well, it's my trash.
So there's people out working ontrucks, friends stopping by,
having a beer kind of thing, andthey're all just sitting out
there just just waiting for the party to start.

(11:09):
They all sat around drinking andsmoking until the time was right
for their plan. When Justin wasn't where he
could hear them, they decided they were going to take Justin
to the helicopter field and commit the crime there.
Spencer Field is well known in Milton.
It's a large, literally a large square area with four roads
around it. Right in the middle of like, the

(11:29):
high school is over on one. Side Milton just came out right
in the middle. It didn't go back to the roots.
The high schools on one side, there's neighborhoods around it,
and Spencer Field is the Navy training field, and it's where
helicopters will do touchdowns and training exercises because
the Navy base out there is all pilot training, right?

(11:50):
So it's used for things like that.
And it's literally a big square field with four roads around it.
Yeah. So they told Justin they were
going to go out to the field, they're going to walk out in the
middle and they were going to smoke a joint out there.
When they pulled into the field,Justin asked where the joint was
and they told him, oh just come along we'll smoke it when we get

(12:11):
there. When they got to the middle of
the field, Rogers turned and asked Justin what he had done.
Justin began to get uneasy and believed they were going to beat
him up. Justin even asked him if they
were. He said Are y'all going to beat
me up? Like what's going on here?
He. Even with a child like mind.
Everybody gets Spidey senses. Everybody got them.

(12:31):
That that's that inner human fighter fight.
Something's wrong. Yeah, so Rogers realizes he's
kind of on to it, so he starts laughing.
He's like, I will just messing with you.
Come on, let's go out here to ease Justin.
So they walk out to the middle field and Rogers asked Justin if
he could see the stars. He told Justin, if you can look

(12:55):
up there and find a certain star, then I'm going to give you
20 bucks. So 20 bucks.
Hell yeah, right. So Justin starts looking up
trying to find the star and the whole plan behind it was Rodgers
was going to have him up lookingfor the star and that's when he
was going to stab him. But while Justin was looking he
just couldn't gain the courage to do it.

(13:16):
So when Justin stopped looking and Rodgers hadn't gotten the
courage, the plan changed again and they began to walk back to
the truck. While in route, Rodgers stopped,
pulled up his shirt, removed hisBowie knife and stabbed Justin
in the back. Justin was startled and screamed
why did you just do that and immediately fell to the ground.
Justin was now on the ground. After a bit of confused

(13:39):
conversation and making Justin stay on the ground, Rodgers
crouched down beside him and stabbed him again right between
the shoulder blades. Justin, trying to get back up,
still had the knife plunged in his back.
Rodgers told Justin to lay down and twisted the knife in his
back. Rogers then pulled the knife out
and gave it to Lawrence for him to stab him.

(14:01):
This top point, Justin's still alive and he's looking up at his
cousin like what is going on? And so Lawrence pussied out and
then couldn't do anything. Not to mention he didn't try to
save him or stop it either. No, but you know he did.
He couldn't stab him when he waslooking at him.
That was his cousin. I just.

(14:23):
Lawrence said it's just too hard, so they just stood there
and watched him. Die.
It's a weird phenomenon because I've heard about several stories
of like cases like that of youngadults and one of them coming up
with a plan and we're all going to go murder this one other kid
and. Nobody stops it.
Nobody and and some people, somekids won't participate, but they

(14:44):
also, like you said, won't stop it.
They just are there and a lot oftimes those are the ones that
end up, you know, turning the case would be wrong.
But if you had stopped it, call 911 or like did anything, you
could have saved life. It's.
Because they didn't have someonelike us in the group.
And I don't mean that in the sense of like, oh, we're so
great. I mean that in the sense of, I

(15:04):
think about that sometimes when I'm like with my coworkers and
something's going on at work andit it's wrong.
Not in the sense of like murder wrong, but wrong.
Like, no, we shouldn't be doing this.
Everybody talks about it, but nobody will say anything.
And I'm like, well, I'm going tosay something and they're.
Like you're. Going to say something?
To our detriment. Yeah, exactly.
And then when I speak up and sayit, then everybody tag teams on

(15:27):
and we'll agree, but nobody willbe the first one to say it.
And I always will ask people afterwards because people will
come to me and they'll be like, Becky, you go say it, you'll say
it. And I'm like, why don't y'all?
Why won't anybody else? Why my Python that jumps out and
like chokes you to death? Nobody's like say something.
No, you're not going to lose your job.
I'm not going in and being disrespectful.

(15:48):
No. We were in a meeting the other
day and we were talking about this personality class we had to
take and they were all talking about their colors and it was
one by two bosses and I was like, I was like gold.
I was like and of. Course, I scored a high enough
gold that they put my name on the PowerPoint for the entire
class of 50 people and my boss has started dying laughing and
they were like, Becky, that explains so much about you.

(16:09):
You literally are a Gold Star personality.
My big boss goes, that's why your questions are so pointed
and targeted. I was like targeted.
And he was like, that's not the right word.
They're just very pointed and very direct about what the
problem is. I was like no true.
I mean, would you want me beating by the Bush?
Like what do you want from? Me, I said that's my OCD and

(16:30):
they were dying laughing. They were like, we understand so
much more about you now. And that's why we do these
personality tests. That's right.
So as they're sitting there watching Justin die in the
field, Rogers decided this wasn't going on quick enough.
So Rogers grabbed a shirt and decided to strangle him.
Once he was dead, Lawrence walked over, checked, picked up

(16:55):
the knife, and stabbed him 10 more times in the back.
Now that he's dead, he'll participate.
He doesn't want to look at him, why he right, But he'll have fun
mutilating his body, that's not a problem.
Once they were done, assured he was dead, they went back to the
truck, got some bolt cutters, cut a large hole in the fence
and back the truck up big enoughpull to back the truck into so

(17:16):
they could load his body into it.
They grabbed a blanket and loaded Justin's body into the
back. They headed home, but not before
stopping for snacks. They were hungry and Lawrence
was dying to try the new 3D PuffDoritos.
Oh my God, do you? Yes, I remember those.

(17:37):
This story was what a weird. Fucking thing to think about
after murdering someone. Also, I was terrified when you
said bolt cutters at first I waslike what are they going to?
Do Nah, just got a hole in the fence.
I'm so prepared for awful thingsto come.
I'm like, oh shit, this is it. Oh no, hole in the fence.
This story was so emotionally. Charged.

(18:01):
Yeah, it like I had like turmoilwith it because it was really
hard and I left out so many details of this because I just
couldn't go into them. And then I'm like 03 puff
Doritos. I remember that was messing and
then I'm like oh, sad. Have one of those nice surge.
I was very bipolar when I was writing this.
My emotions were all over the place.
Honestly, that's what all our stories are true.

(18:22):
We'll be talking about ugly things and then we'll get really
on the a funny tangent and then you come back in where somebody
gets stabbed in the back. You know what I mean?
It just happens like that. And see where I where I wait, I
wrote some things and I took it out.
So when they loaded the body into the back, they cut the hole
big enough to drive the truck into, and they took his body to

(18:42):
the middle of the field and buried it there, which was
always kind of confusing to me because it was a military field,
so. That means to me like there's
going to be high traffic becauseof and the whole point of the
field is for exercise, yes, likemilitary.
So like somebody's going to notice like some dirt that's.
Being held up and I'm like, I feel like a lot of your training
with these touchdowns and stuff in a helicopter is for recovery

(19:05):
missions and none of you noticedsomething was different about
the field and there was a giant hole cut in the fence, but I
digress. You know deers can do that.
You know, and sometimes I don't bother in my riding to go look
up why none of that was brought up because then I end up down
six other rabbit holes and I'm like, stay focused, stay focused
and stay on this. One it's already.
Hard to be focused. That's not your exit.
Don't get off. Fuck, I felt that deep in my

(19:28):
chest right there. Yes.
So I would have to go no, no, no, don't go look just.
You almost have your. Mind.
And yeah, go down your own rabbit hole.
Don't even look it up when you go lay in bed, Becky, because
then you're going to go at it tothe episode.
So after they did that, then they went and got the 3D
Doritos. As one would my first thought

(19:49):
not. Not like I have 30 deritos.
I wonder if they are gluten freebecause regular Doritos are
gluten free but then if you go to Mexico their Doritos are not.
Just letting you know. I didn't know until I had eaten
quite a few in Puerto Vallarta, so that was great.
I don't think it was so they stopped.

(20:11):
They went and had their snacks after.
So they bury the body, they go get their snacks and then like,
you know what, We need to go back and make sure that we
didn't leave anything. Make sure there is no evidence.
Now that you've got your your belly full of 3D Doritos.
Well, they got their thinking power back their.
Sugars was low. Their sugars was low.

(20:32):
Take you back to a little establishment of Florida there.
Yes. They go back, they look around,
make sure they don't have anything, start to head back,
realize they're thirsty, so theystop for some Cokes.
They get back to Lawrence's house and they start cleaning
the knives, making sure they hadall their belongings.
And the boys joked about let's see if before I get to the part

(20:53):
where I ask you intercede and say anything they joked about.
Remember reading a story about amurder when one of the
assailants dropped his glasses and that's how they got caught
and they didn't want to make that mistake.
And they laughed as one of them checked for their glasses.
Now, Jennifer, do you remember afamous story about two boys
murdering a neighbor and gettingcaught by leaving behind their.

(21:14):
Glasses I do You covered it on this podcast.
Listen, I don't remember half the jokes we make.
Like listen, I will listen to our podcast to like just run
through for a title and every time I'm like, we are some funny
bitches. I don't even remember half this
conversation. Same girl, same.

(21:36):
It's drum roll, please. Is it the candy man?
No, starts with an L. Both of their names, Leopold and
Loeb. Leopold and Loeb, Didn't you
cover them? I don't think so.
Did I? I'm pretty sure you did.

(21:57):
I might have. It was the two boys and they
murdered the rich kid with the glass and they they dropped
their. I'm telling you, I'm 99% sure
you covered it. Why don't you look and see if
she covered it? I'm not.
I've never. I've never known her.
I've never known her. Why I?
Continue look and see if we covered it and then get back to
me and let me know if I'm wrong.Jimmy.

(22:18):
Sounds like a fun facts situation.
Jimmy's fun facts. She's wrong.
This was covered by our heroes over at Last Podcast from the
left if you're listening. Hi boys.
Anywho, if I am wrong I apologize.
If if if you are wrong, then that seems like you're telling
me that that's a Becky request and I will get it done.

(22:40):
I'm going to say as much information as goes in I don't
have because Jonathan will be like.
You should cover this or Emma will be like you should cover
this and I'm like we might have.Oh my God.
I don't know. I always thought it was like
people being like trying to be humble when they said they
couldn't remember their episodes, like listening to The
Last Podcast and, and how they talk.
And I'm like, Oh no, they were being for real.

(23:01):
Yeah. Because like, there was
something that came about GerardSchaefer.
And I was like, God damn, this is so fucking familiar.
I wrote about it. I wrote, I'm pretty sure maybe I
don't. And then I have to ask Jimmy and
he'll tell me. But he doesn't know if we
covered this or not, no. Shameful.
Shameful. You know, I thought you had
this. What is it?

(23:22):
What is it called? Leopold and Loeb.
I just think about Lisa Loeb. Dan.
No, that's Sophie Hawkins. It was about seeing.
Damn, I wish I was your lover but.
That's not the same. God.
I'm going to have to double check you.
I swear to God I remember him. You telling me.
Maybe I'll listen to it on a different podcast.
I could have told you about it and it'd be something I had
heard about before because we dotalk about a lot of things.

(23:44):
We don't just talk about weird shit during the podcast.
This is 99.9% of the time. And I mean this in the most
pleasant way. Sometimes your stories do go on
and on and you tell me everything about.
I really do you, basically. Told me the podcast.
Anyway, we digress. Whatever, it did take just a

(24:05):
whole. Discussion.
It didn't take Justin's mom longto report him missing.
He always came home by 7:00 PM to take his medication, and when
he didn't show up to take his meds, he became delusional and
he didn't like that feeling. His mother immediately knew
something bad had to have happened to him.
His mother, one waiting around for no police to come handle.
This sounds like another mother.I know that's right.

(24:27):
I was like, but you don't play. I remember there was somebody
that Justin having to talk to wanted to go hang out with them
and you were like, give them thenight.
You're like, hold up, who is this kid?
Tell me more about him. He.
Had to come to the house and meet me and I put a tracker on
Justin's phone but. As one should.
OK. Do you remember the commercials?
It's 9:00 PM. Where are your children?
Well, I know because I get trackers.

(24:49):
I know, sorry. His mother immediately made
posters and hung them around town.
She stopped at one store where one of the convenience stores
where she met a young girl namedJennifer Jenny Robinson.
She asked her if she. Knew her.
That's so rude, Jennifer. Jenny Robinson is her whole

(25:11):
name, no. No, no, she went by Jenny.
Oh, I thought it was like that was like, that is so messed up I
don't know why. And did you notice the
correlation here? The episode is Jennifer
Robinson. Her mom went to the His mom went
to the gas station and asked herif she'd seen him.
She. Asked if she knew her son as

(25:32):
they had attended the same high school, but she did not.
A week was a week later, Justin was still missing and there were
no leads. One day his mom was outside
gardening when Lawrence and Rodger showed up to her yard.
They wanted her to take their names off the missing persons
poster because the missing persons poster said he was.
They were the last ones to see him.

(25:54):
That's a very odd request. She said she found it odd.
I be like, you sound fucking guilty.
That's what she said she was like.
I just kind of sat there for a minute.
Like what? Because anybody else that was
listed on the poster, like some of the people who had been at
the home when he was there, had no problem with it.

(26:16):
They're like, no, by all means, I put my name, I'll help in any
way. And for them to stop by and be
like, hey, we really need you totake our names off that.
She's like, what? Direct quote.
Don't be suspicious. Don't be suspicious.
He said she recalled that when they showed up and said that she
just got a really weird feeling.Mother immediately knew

(26:39):
something was wrong and she had a feeling that Lawrence was
involved. At this time, she was only one
looking. Police had stopped looking into
this. There was no evidence of a
crime, there was no signs of foul play and given Justin's
mental health history, he could be anywhere doing anything,
according to the police. Oh my God I fucking hate it when
please do that. It was the night.

(27:01):
They still do it now. They do, true.
They were just worse about it. Then they will.
They didn't even try to hide it back in them days.
Yeah, this just. They're probably out there just
while. And he got the mental problems,
you know what I'm saying? They've known to wander.
Direct quote. Quote UN quote.
This time, Rogers and Lawrence had not been questioned

(27:23):
extensively. Yes, they were the last ones
with him and yes they had a mental health history, but no,
they had no violent history, so they didn't really see a reason
to think they had done anything.There wasn't much concern or
looking into Justin's disappearance until Todd Hand
arrived. Todd Hand was a new detective
with the Santa Rosa Police Department who had 15 years

(27:44):
experience as a cop and became the new man assigned to Justin's
case. After reading the report, he
read that Justin had been reported by his mom and stated
he it's his meds and he would become paranoid and suicidal.
So of course he thought I was probably just mad some girl ran
off and well, who knows now. Just just just sounds just like

(28:06):
him. He decided though, he was going
to drive out and talk to Justin's mom.
He walked around and asked the neighbors that they had seen
anything. So they said Justin didn't
drive. He walked everywhere.
And he was very friendly and sweet.
So if he's seen anybody, he was like, hey, how are you doing?
And they all knew him. Hey, Justin, how are you?
So he had spoken to multiple people on the walk.

(28:26):
So multiple people are like, yeah, we seen him.
And someone said, I seen him getting into a truck and he left
that day. And another neighbor was like,
yeah, I seen it too. That was Lawrence's truck.
So now we got more confirmation that.
That that name gets to stay on the poster, Lawrence.
Hand headed to Lawrences home. He Lawrence wasn't home and he

(28:51):
didn't have a warrant so he did not proceed on the property.
Hand had learned way long ago tobe very by the book when it came
to going on to properties. Looking around anything like
that, he knew that if he found anything and he had done
anything to him, none of it would be a miscible because he
went on to his property without permission.
Yeah, you lose a whole case oversome whole case.

(29:11):
Shit like that. They never said that he ever
lost a case over it, but when I tell you this man was like about
it. He got burnt one time and he
said never again, bitch, never. Never.
You ain't catching me sleeping. Never.
That sounds like me and you energy right there.
Yes listen, this happened one time.
Ain't never happening again. Who got me?
Once you won't give me. Twice for me.

(29:32):
Once shame on you. For me, toy, shame on me.
Exactly. He knew if something had
happened to Justin and he proceeded too quickly with
Lawrence and found anything, he'd not be able to use it in
court. So he spoke to some neighbors
who told him where Lawrence worked, hand called him there
and spoke to Ricky, a Co worker who had been on Lawrence's
property working on a truck prior to them leaving for the

(29:54):
helicopter field. He told him that Justin was
there and was all dressed up like it was a special occasion.
Ricky said Justin had helped himwith some work on his truck and
then rode around with him to seeif it was good.
You know how they used to do that?
I heard that off right around lock.
She was good. Yes.
Yes. After they returned, Ricky left

(30:14):
and he said Justin was alive andwell.
He said he returned later and Justin was still there hanging
out. He said later Justin left with
Rogers and Lawrence. He said that was the last time I
seen him. Hand was later able to speak to
Lawrence, who said they drove off with Justin and then went
back to the house to watch The Shining.
He said Justin had wanted to watch it.

(30:36):
He said when the movie was over,Justin said he was going to go
down to the video store and thatwas the last time he seen them.
So Hand he called. He then proceeded to call
Rogers. There was no answer, so he
headed to the video store. The clerk said Justin had not
been in the store for quite a while and they reviewed the
video footage and there was noneof Justin so.
You know, hands doing some work,he doing some work.

(30:58):
That's right. Putting in the time.
Hand tried multiple times to reach Rogers, who would not
return his call. Hand looked both made-up in the
police database and seen they had both done time at the mental
health facility together and hadprior prison sentences.
But again, nothing violent thereand there was still no
indication of foul play. But Hand was beginning to get

(31:18):
suspicious. He just had a feeling something
did happen and that they were responsible.
About the time he started to really start like questioning
them and leaning into him, all of a sudden he started getting a
lot of calls about sightings of Justin.
All of a sudden people see him, are seeing them everywhere, and
ain't nobody seen him up until this time.
Right. Of course, none of them panned

(31:41):
out, he said. Everybody, some of them were
make citizens out just trying tobe helpful, but they don't
realize like if you're not sure and you're doing these calls,
you're just kind of wasting timebecause they have to go out and
verify them. Every single lead has to be
verified. That's other time that they're
not putting in possibly more concerted efforts, right?

(32:06):
There was one anonymous caller who had said they seen Justin in
Fort Walton with the girl. Something about the message just
didn't sit right with hands. He was starting to suspect
Lawrence and Rogers, and that just as he would be starting to
suspect them, he'd get a weird tip that was like trying to
throw him off case. And it was.
Always an anonymous caller. Also, that don't even sound

(32:26):
right. He's just with some girl.
I feel like he would brag. He would have been like, I'm
going out with this girl. I'm going to tell my mom about
it. Oh yeah, I'm going to be so
fucking excited for sure. Like because he's that type.
He talks to everybody. He's like someone's.
Going to he would have told someone.
He's like my Justin. That's the first thing Justin
would tell you when you walk in the door for.
You've got to close. I've got a girlfriend.

(32:48):
Yes, I love you. I miss you can give me a hug
right now and then tell me all the things.
Yes, that are just like so random to none of the rest of us
would lead a conversation that way and I feel like this Justin
would have done the same thing. Exactly.
It took Hand a while to get Rodgers on the phone.

(33:09):
He was very evasive but made an appointment to come in and talk
but of course right before the appointment he canceled.
Hand was able to get him on the phone again and asked him when
was the last time he seen Justin.
Rodgers started the story the same as Lawrence but there was 1
slight difference. They both stated that Justin
wanted to watch The Shining. Rodgers stated right before the

(33:30):
famous scene. It's Johnny.
Justin got up and left, Hans said.
He always found that odd, and italways stuck out to him.
If you've ever seen The Shining,you know the scene that I'm
referring to. If you're a huge fan of The
Shining, why would you get up right before the most famous
scene and walk out and leave? Yeah, doesn't make sense.
No, especially when you got nowhere to go.

(33:51):
Who was asking for? It yes and as we all know, if
you follow true crime at all thedevil is in the details That's
why you don't tell too many details that's where you get
caught up see that's. When you know they love, they're
lying. When they start telling you
every little thing, yes. And you're like, I ain't asked
you shit. Yeah, if he just left it like

(34:12):
Lawrence. We watched The Shining and he
went home. Yeah.
But Rogers had to get too detailed.
Oh, he left right before the scene in the most famous scene.
You'd have been better if he said he left right after that
scene. That would have made more.
Sense. What's that guy?
He killed his wife and he was like so particular about
stopping at stores and getting receipts when he had never done
that before. And he was like, see, look, I
had a play by play right here, baby you.

(34:33):
Doing too much, Doing too much, you doing too much.
On April 20th, Hand spoke to Justin's mother again.
Let me tell you one thing about this book that was hard.
You guys, the author narrated the book himself or or somebody
else, I don't fucking know. One person narrated the book,
but they chose to take on the voices of everybody.

(34:56):
That's confusing. It wasn't confusing as it was
annoying. It was like this.
So hand called and spoke to Justin's mother.
She answered the phone and said I.
Don't know, he ain't been here. And then Hand was like, where
was you seen him last? And I'm like Oh my fucking just
stop. I don't need the exaggerated.
It was literally a man trying tomake a girl's voice that was

(35:19):
exactly like I just did. And I'd be like, I would have to
re listen to it sometimes because all I would do is go
this is so annoying why is he doing this?
And then I'm like, oh wait, whatdid he say?
Listen when you're listening to an audio book, that how they
they're talking to you makes a huge difference in enjoying that
thing or. Not it really does.
I was listening to Game of Thrones.

(35:40):
I had watched the whole show andI was like, well, I guess I'll
go ahead and listen to the book.And the guy kept pronouncing
everything wrong. And I was like, every time I
turn around, this motherfucker pronounces something wrong.
And I'm like, Sir, a lot of these things were just easy.
You can't call TomTom. Sometimes when I'm listening to
a different podcast than they doin the area I grew up and they

(36:01):
mispronounce the city, it drivesand bonkers the whole podcast.
Like you're giving great contentbut it's killing me.
Why don't you use the professional method I use of
letting the computer read it foryou?
As one should. As one should.
So he spoke to Justin's mom again on the 20th and she said

(36:22):
there was a bad smell coming from up the road and that she
really wanted him to come out and investigate it because she
just had a feeling it was Justin.
So she told him I got a hold of Lucas McCain and that he had a
Bloodhound from the Jimmy Rice Center.
So the Jimmy Rice Center is an organization founded by the
parents of Jimmy Rice. He's a nine year old boy.
He was abducted, raped and murdered.

(36:44):
The organization helps in efforts to find missing pieces.
People, people, thank you. Well, I'm sometimes people are
in pieces when they get look for.
Oh, Jen, you know, sorry, I'm trying to keep it from being so
dark, but thanks. You're welcome.
That makes me think of a Texas IQ search.
There we go. We'll make it positive, yen and
Yang. So this organization would

(37:08):
provide blood hounds free to lawenforcement in efforts to find
missing people. And this is how Justin's mom was
able to get the very first search for her son started.
Isn't that crazy that she had todo that though?
Hey Mama, a Mama will do anything.
But like the fact that the law enforcement be like meh but.
Once she called him and told himthey're like, oh cool, yeah,
we'll come on over and do that. Of course they will.

(37:31):
I will. Oh God.
Of course they will. Not motherfuckers.
You ain't a fighting no more. So hand filled McCain in on
Justin's. Case and they searched the
neighborhood but found nothing. Hand sent them to Lawrence's
compound to search there. They asked permission to run the
Bloodhound and he agreed. But why Winnie?
There was no one there now. This next little tidbit I'm

(37:54):
going to tell you is not really that important to the case, but
I liked it. Because I'm petty, Betty.
While Hand was there, a red sports car pulled up and Rodger
stepped out. He was with his girlfriend.
Who hand described as looking a little overweight and homely.

(38:15):
That was the petty part, I really.
Did I love it when people use the word homely on top of that
too? Because there's that's not a
word that everybody knows, but that means she was ugly, OK, She
found out on the ugly tree, hit every ugly branch, and then hit
the ugly rock at the bottom. That's right.
Hand and Rogers had finally met.Rogers then implied that Justin

(38:37):
might be down the street at Jack's.
This was the home of a man who would supply drugs for sexual
favors. And if you aren't already
disgusted and what they did to this poor man, I hope that
you're disgusted that they now implied that he was a male
prostitute. Not that I'm knocking
prostitutes do you Boo Boo. Just don't try to use this and
demean someone after you freaking murdered them.

(39:01):
The dog began to pawl at the earth but sadly it was only a
bird skeleton. The only thing they turned up
was a pot plant as Hand was leaving.
That would be what the cops would turn up with.
I know. As Hand was leaving, he looked
around again and thought Rogers is a wet.
This is another petty part, Rogers.
For it. A well belt built muscular man

(39:24):
and he was definitely using Lisa.
You know, I only included that because I'm petty and because
small town that includes some small town garbage.
That's what you came here for. If you think that I'm not still
on like the talk of Darien and Idon't live in that town, I
haven't lived in that town. In a long time same.
But I need to know what's going on.

(39:45):
I need to know that small town drama, OK?
Exactly. Once back at the office, Hand
started becoming more and more convinced that the previous
anonymous tip had to have come from Rogers.
Hand was still constantly watching Lawrence and Rogers for
Justin's disappearance. He felt Lawrence was a weak
link. He called and asked Lawrence to
come in for a voice stress analysis.

(40:07):
Lawrence agreed. And then when he came in for the
test, Hand took this opportunityto speak with Lawrence's mother,
who of course said Hymns was a good boy.
My baby would never never. My baby is an Angel.
The tests revealed that every question about Justin Lawrence
showed deception, but all this test did was confirm Hand

(40:29):
suspicion. No real evidence.
Hand went home for the night, but Lawrence and Rodgers day was
just beginning. On May 7th, 1998, Jennifer
Robinson lived with her parents.She woke up in her room and she
was a senior. When she woke up this particular
day, she was really excited. Today was the day that she had

(40:50):
her date with Jeremiah Rogers. She had met him at the
convenience store that she worked with worked out.
So he had come in there multipletimes asking her out and she'd
said no, no, no and finally she said yes to him.
Jennifer had pure red hair and was had an outgoing personality
and a beautiful figure. That's what.
They say about me too, you know.Same, I say I light up a room

(41:14):
too. You do.
That's what this room is runningon right now.
Just my brightness. That same morning, Lawrence was
sitting at home. Jennifer had your typical
teenage girls room. Stuffed animals on her bed,
pictures on her walls, posters of Elvis.
That's who she was obsessed with.

(41:37):
When was this again? 1998.
Oh yeah, that makes sense. Elvis did have a little bit of
resurgence in the 90s. I mean, I still love Elvis.
I mean, I, yes, but like, do youremember like when Lisa Marie
Presley, yeah, got married, like, and everybody just kind of
kind of reinvigrated the fervor?So Lawrence's room was stark
contrast to Jennifer's. While again she had Elvis

(42:00):
posters, stuffed animals in her cat in her room, Lawrence had
satanic material, white supremacist, and a book called
The Incredible Machine. So like Sid from Toy Story?
Yes. If you don't know what the
Incredible Machine is, it's an anatomy book.
He had circled A calf muscle in one of the female drawings.
He also had a Foot locker that was filled with serial killer

(42:22):
books, magazines, you name it, and he admired them all.
But his most treasured items in the locker was his certificate
that made him an official memberof What do you think?
Oh. Jimmy's the.
Winner today. I was like, there's so many KKK,
really Ku. Klux Klan.
You know, I was sitting there and I, you were looking at your

(42:43):
computer, so you didn't see the range of emotions that went
through my face of horror. And then I was like, you know,
but I do have a lot of weird things in my house.
And then you went down that point.
I was like, OK, never mind. I'm absolved.
I'm not that weird. I'm not that fucked up that.
Was to be I was like, I have lots of books about serial
killers and magazines and tons of dinosaur stuff and.

(43:04):
So, you know, you could think I was a odd duck all on its own,
but I do not have any white supremacist stuff and I'm not a
member of the Ku Klux Klan. Pretty sure Google also is
worried about me. I was researching stuff about
hangings and stuff and what was the most effective hanging
method. For sure Google did.
Stop and go. Are you OK?
And I was like, listen, I've been studying Nazis for four
months. I don't know.

(43:24):
I'm not sure if I'm OK. I will say I did hear about a
hangman's break the other day and I was like, oh, I know about
that. School education there for you.
My girl got me, the more you know.
That's right, the more you. Know a week before Roger's date
with Jennifer, he bragged about his upcoming date with Jennifer.

(43:45):
The day of the date, Jennifer went to school and then to her
after school job to stock shelves.
Roger stopped in and told her that they could just meet at her
job for their date. Jennifer told him my Mama ain't
having that. She said her mother would only
let her go out if she met him first.
Very 90s, very 90s. But I feel like that's what the

(44:06):
way you probably should like. It is, yeah.
Yeah. Sorry, Sir.
You're taking my. I don't know, I could have made
it mentally through the 90s without having like a lobotomy
or something. Yeah, that, that was real fast
and loose. Lay eyes on this man coming to
get my daughter. Yeah, people didn't, though.
And don't these days it's. Wild times.

(44:26):
Rogers did not want to do this. He did not want to meet her
parents but despite this she wasinsistent and she refused.
I mean he had no choice but to agree.
I swear I proofread this and fixmy.
Errors. Rogers called her before he
headed over and told her he needed her to meet him at the
end of the road because he was confused on how to get to her

(44:48):
house. After all that pressing her, I'd
be like bitch. He told her, though, that once
he picked her up at the end of the road, he would take her back
and meet her mother. She agreed, but when he picked
her up at the end of the road, he tried to avoid going back and
she was like swing it back around.
Yeah, don't. I'm trying to pass one on me

(45:10):
baby and. So he turned around and went
back. She took him up.
Jennifer introduced the two and he was very pleasant to her
mother, her mother recalled. He seems nice and normal.
Her mother told him her curfew was 1:00 AM.
He agreed, and Rogers and Jennifer left.
Their plan was just to ride around with friends and nothing

(45:30):
in particular. Do you remember those days when
you would? That was just what you were
going to go do. We're just going to go ride
around. That's what we did in high
school. I lived in a podunk small town.
There was like 2000 people in the city proper and we would
drive either 30 minutes to go hang out at Walmart or you get
to hang out in the Blue and Steam's, which was a local

(45:52):
grocery store parking lot. Yes, or you could just go riding
around in the woods or in the cemeteries.
Yep. You know, like that's really all
you had. There was 1 gas station that
would sell cigarettes and boothsto underage kids and so we'd
always stop by there, get all myrules, get a little, you know,
Mad Dog 4040, whatever, you know, whatever we were drinking.

(46:15):
As Mad Dog 20/20/20 y'all might have had a jabber.
Myth. We had Arbor myths.
Yes, yes, yes. I like the fruity stuff, so I
went into the beers. But back then, back in those
days. Yeah, ah, memory.
I you know the difference between today's kids, though,
and when we were like, we did some risky fucking shit.
I don't know how I didn't die, Truth.

(46:37):
Truth be told. Yeah.
But meanwhile, like, we were talking earlier about John,
John, like he needs his Mama to help cancel that gym membership.
You know what I mean? That's 'cause he knows I'm gonna
bust some kneecaps if I need to.You're taking another $25.
From my baby. Do you think he would go running
around? Like riding at 3:00 in the
morning drinking, absolutely. Boozing after sneaking out?

(46:57):
No. No.
He'd be like, listen, I've heardenough from my mother.
She's told me enough that I'm terrified.
She's told me enough about prison too, after she worked
there and she told me what Bubbawants to do to me for my
biscuits. And I don't think so.
Ain't happening. I'm going to stay home.
I'm going to build my Titanic Lego.
He told me last night to go livewhile I was riding some of this.

(47:18):
And I was like, well, I'm actually like, really invested
in this right now, so maybe on the next one.
And he was like, don't you dare.You embarrass me.
And I was like, what if I started making money?
And he was like, I'd still be embarrassed.
And I was like, what if I made millions?
He was like, I'd still be embarrassed.
And I said, well then you know what all those embarrassing
$1,000,000 I made? I'm not spending any of it on
you. Will it be embarrassing on that

(47:41):
yacht? I think not.
He does not want me to go live and pluck the imaginary flowers
out of the air and smell them. I'll do it.
Back to the story. When Rogers was picking up
Jennifer and setting out for thedate, Lawrence was back at his
house making a list and checkingit twice.
The list started off cooler withice for her meat.

(48:03):
Oh no. Strawberry Wine.
Everclear Resharpen main blade tomahawk saw film for Polaroid
camera gallon size Ziploc bags, wash rags, rope juggle.
That's how you know it's a S too.
It's like wash rags. I didn't even notice that until
you said it. You're right.

(48:24):
It was just so natural to me. Rope jug of.
Water shovel. Lawrence got everything ready
and put it in his truck and begin drinking rum.
Rogers arrived with his date to Lawrence's.
They all got in the truck and headed out.
It wasn't weird to her like the third wheel thing.

(48:44):
Girl, what did we just talk about?
You just rode around with all your friends.
You just rode around in the Walmart parking lot in the.
McDonald's fire, it's very much a bonfire kind of place.
You never know where the night'sgoing to take just.
Another day in the 90s. May 8th, 1998 The morning Rogers
got home about dawn and decided to watch a movie, he sat down

(49:04):
and watched the Donner Party. At the same time, Jennifer's mom
and her mom's boyfriend Randall were just getting up for work.
They went to Jennifer's room andrealized she wasn't there.
This was when they first realized that she never came
home. They immediately became worried.
Her mother proceeded with what she needed for the day, thinking

(49:27):
that maybe she had just fallen asleep at Rogers.
Randall was home from work untilthe evening, so he knew he would
be there if she showed up. At this time, the parents they
began calling people and they called a clerk from her job to
ask customers. The clerk asked a customer named
Elijah, who happened to be Roger's brother, if he had seen
Jennifer and that she had been out with Rogers the night

(49:48):
before. Elijah commented that boy could
do anything. Elijah left and went to his
brother's house. When he left his brother's
house, he's seen Rogers. He's seen Rogers driving towards
Jennifer's house and assumed Oh well maybe she did just fall
asleep there and he's taking herhome.

(50:09):
But a few minutes later, Rogers turned around and pulled up in
Elijah's yard with beer. He asked him to drink a beer and
him and Elijah asked him to drink a beer and Elijah said he
was acting nervous. Rogers then stated I'm going to
jail for this, I'm going to die.Elijah asked him what he had

(50:31):
done, and Rogers told him he hadto swear he couldn't tell
anyone. Elijah told him.
Hey, if it's really bad, I can'tmake you no promises.
You know what? At least he was real about it,
because that's exactly how I would.
Don't tell me nothing you don't want the cops to be told.
That would be me too. Look.
Hold up, You ain't implicating nothing.
You should be. For beard you acting strange and

(50:52):
nervous. And die for this sounds like
lethal injection type shit. And then you said penalty stuff.
Never a good thing, never a good.
Thing. Oh no fam, just letting you
know. Maybe you should keep that
secret to yourself to get to thegrave.
Maybe I'm not the one. I don't go to jail for nobody.
Rodgers then threw a stack of pictures down on the hood of the

(51:13):
truck and told Elijah to look athim.
Elijah began to look at him and they were all of a girl.
The photos were different parts of her body and then about
halfway through he seen one withthe girl's face.
It was Jennifer. Rodgers then proceeded to tell
him that Lawrence had shot and killed her.
Some of the photos show Jenniferbloody, one with a knife plunged

(51:34):
in her growing, one with her face peeled back from her skull,
one with her right leg mutilated.
Elijah then said what about Justin?
Rogers then told him the story of killing Justin.
He wanted Elijah. He then asked Elijah.
So he goes into detail. The book goes into detail of

(51:54):
their whole conversation, but I didn't feel like I needed to
relive it for you guys. Y'all got it the first time with
Justin, You're about to get it with Jennifer.
He then tells Elijah. Hey, why don't you come out to
the woods with me and I'll show you the bodies?
How about I don't? That look right there is what I
feel like Elijah's face was likebecause.
How about you just told me abouttwo murders and now you want me

(52:16):
to go in the woods alone, which you fuck out of here.
That's exactly what Elijah said.You out of your mind?
I don't give a fuck. That's exactly what he said.
Quote UN quote. Almost a direct quote, he said.
Not fathom. Hard pass for me, Elijah said.

(52:39):
He had a feeling that if he wentin the woods, he wasn't coming
out alive. That's a real direct quote.
He told them, hey, let's go downto the street and talk to Lamar.
Lamar was Elijah's other brother.
So he's like, let's go talk to my other brother down the
street. I need to improve.

(53:00):
My odds of numbers. Here with much haste.
Just then the phone rang and it was Jennifer's mother asking
where was Jennifer. He said he didn't know her or
who or who her daughter was. At that moment, her mother knew

(53:21):
something terrible had happened.Rogers immediately knew his
story was not going to. Work since she had met him the
night before, and he might. Want to change it a little bit?
I thought it was Elijah that hassaid that.
I realize now you're saying the murder of.
I know what, that's why I got confused.
I'm like did I delete the sentence out of here?

(53:42):
This isn't real clear. What do you meet you last night,
Sir? So he said immediately he was
like, oh shit, she's going to call the cops if I just tell her
that. So he was like, she got drunk
and she went off with Lawrence. This gave her mother some hope
that maybe Jennifer was alive and that maybe.

(54:04):
I I don't know what else to explain to you about her mom's
next thought press other than small town.
I don't know, literally, her mother said.
It gave her hope that she was a lot, that she was still alive
and maybe they had just raped her and left her in the woods
somewhere. I mean, I'm sure at that point,
like you're like, at least she'sstill alive.

(54:24):
I think maybe by the tone of hisvoice, his actions, the fact
that she didn't come home, she knew some shit had happened.
She just didn't know. To the extent and so she's
hoping maybe they just did something to her, but she's
still alive because he's tellingme where she went, who she went
with. That's all I could think.
Her mother then called Lawrence.He said he hadn't seen her.

(54:45):
Her mom got in her car and headed over to Lawrence's house
to confront them. When she pulled up, she's seen
exactly what would confirm all of your mother instincts and
worries. She's seen him outside cleaning
out his truck, cleaning it out. So water bleach in there and you
know, immediately you're like, fuck my kids dead.
You have to know, right? Then I think you have to know

(55:07):
is. That or you have a middle break
and you're like lose your mind and go into active denial about
it. It's one or the other.
I'd probably be that crazy person that would like floor and
just run him over at the truck, but then again I'd want to know
where my kid was, so maybe not. Who knows, who knows?
Yeah. You could have done that and
then talked to his corpse and belike, bitch, tell me where he's
at. Sounds like some crazy shit I

(55:28):
would do. Sounds like you hit the nail on
the head there. Tell me, Tell me what I would
have. Done.
Her mother was now crying and called Rogers again.
Again, he said he knew nothing. Diane Robinson now called the
police. Her boyfriend Dennis Randall and

(55:49):
his friend Leonard Wiggs now begin driving around looking for
Rogers. So she goes home.
She tells them and they're like,oh, we going to go find out some
fucking answers. This some country boy shit right
here. He calls his friend.
He's like, let's go get these boys.
We're going to find out where she's at.
That country justice ain't nothing like it.
My dad went to a funeral of a distant cousin of his in Georgia

(56:11):
and he had gotten robbed and murdered and they said, did they
find the guy? Well, the law didn't.
We did. And that was all that was ever
spoke. That's exactly it right there.
They didn't say where he went. Nothing else they took care of
and nobody asked because we don't go to jail for nobody.
No, none of you ain't implicating shit.

(56:33):
Nope, Don't know nothing. Don't know nothing.
Didn't. Seen a damn thing.
I'm glad, in fact. You know what, Stevie Wonder?
That's right, Stevie Wonder in this one and.
So they go looking for him, and someone told him they may be
over at Lamar's house, which wasElijah's brother.
So they headed there. And I know that it may seem
almost like unrealistic, but when you're in a small town, you

(56:55):
can literally stop and everybodyknows everybody.
I was just thinking that becauselike when you said that she
didn't call the cops, I was at first going like, that's crazy.
But then there is that false sense of security that you do
know everybody in that small town, like everybody.
The mayor isn't somebody who's famous.
He's your fucking next door neighbor.
Like. Exactly.
The mayor of that town after I left was a younger kid than me

(57:18):
who graduated high school, but it was like a few years behind
me. His sister graduated with me.
So like that's the kind of small.
Town exactly exactly so at that time you're just hoping that you
know the good old boys around town just fucked up and.
Exactly. Left her drunk somewhere, you
know, passed out. It's not unlike some child to be

(57:43):
drunk dying in a field somewherein the South.
It's not, you know, had too muchever clear which an ounce would
be too much. God this is awful.
I drank that many a times. So after they hear that they're
at Lamar's house, they head overthere.
At the time that they get over there, it's the same time that
Elijah and Rogers are getting there.

(58:05):
Lamar came out and Elijah and Rogers were walking up to him.
Elijah told Lamar that Rogers wanted him to ride down the road
with him and Elijah and he wanted Lamar to go.
Just said if he was going to go in the woods and find out if
these murders and the story weretrue, he damn sure wasn't going
alone. No, no, I'm just going to let

(58:25):
you know, Jennifer. Strength got numbers, so a.
Friend with you and they tell you they killed someone in the
woods and you come over to see if I want to go out to the woods
with you. It's going to be a no house hard
paths for me. We're not both dying today
because. You know, I would be like Becky,
I kind of want to know. I really know the you won't go

(58:46):
with. And then that's when you had to
be like, bitch, you were so stupid.
Get in this house. Get in this house.
That's exactly it. And I'd be yelling for John John
to get the shotgun John. To get the gun.
And that's a true story because I told John John when I leave in
the morning, I always check the cameras to make sure there's
been no suspicious activity in the last 30 minutes before I

(59:06):
walk to my car. And then if he's up, I go in and
tell him, hey, I'm going to the car now because I figure if
something happens I can scream and he'll grab the shotgun and
come save me. Right.
Always got a plan? Got to have a plan.
I had to be a good one. I just said you had to have one
but. It's a plan.
You know how many people don't have that plan?

(59:26):
I'm hoping my hearing impaired child hear me scream and come
save me, but I digress. Might as well have Helen Keller
on 911. Exactly.
Elijah told Lamar that Rogers knew all about the girl,
Jennifer, who was missing. Rogers told Lamar that Lawrence

(59:47):
had killed the girl. Rogers then showed Lamar the
pictures. He barely looked at one photo
before handing them back and saying I'm not.
Looking at these. I'm good dog.
By this time, Brandon and Wicks were now at Lamar's house.
Lamar went to speak to them and try to.
He was like, I shit's about to get crazy, let me go out here,

(01:00:09):
try to talk to them and calm them down.
Right. He told them, hey, Lawrence was
the last one to see Jennifer, you need to go talk to him.
You know, we're going to say I just saw pictures of her dad or
anything like. That no.
But you. But I'm telling you, toddler.
Lovers, I'm saying. I don't know anything, but I
suggest strongly that you talk to.

(01:00:31):
Lawrence, that's exactly what I'm picturing.
I'm glad I'm painting a picture.For you and you're seeing the
same thing that I. Am I'm sorry I keep losing my
spot? Because you're acting.
While Amar was speaking to Jennifer's family, Rogers was

(01:00:53):
still trying to get Elijah to gointo the woods with him.
Elijah is like leave me the fuckalone.
Elijah told him. I think you should get in your
car and leave because I'm prettysure I'm calling the police now.
Because I'm not even sure if I'min the middle of a murder
situation right now, so you're making me nervous.
As fuck. It's time to call the boys in

(01:01:13):
blue. You know what I love?
That thin blue line. Every love the police when
they're the ones about to get murdered.
Rogers then said I'll turn myself in.
Lamar told Rogers to go into hishouse and he would get a friend

(01:01:34):
who was a cop to come over and that way he can turn himself in
there it would be. We can all calm down.
We'll call the police. They'll come.
It'll be nice. It'll be real chill, yeah.
Real chill. Chill, chill, chill, chill.
Wicks then asked which one of the boys had been out with
Jennifer Rodgers said it was him, he still didn't know where

(01:01:55):
she was and that Lawrence was the last one with her.
Wicks didn't come over here to leave without answers, Nope, he
wouldn't let him leave and said he needed to tell Jennifer's mom
something. Rodgers then agreed to go to
their house with them and talk to her mom.
At this time, Elijah slammed hishand on the back of the truck.

(01:02:16):
He's enough is enough. You're not motherfuking going
anywhere. You're done trying to get me in
the woods now you're going to their house, Sir.
No, go sit your ass to. Keep the murdering ass in this
corner right here till the cops come.
This prompted Rogers to run at Elijah, who quickly opened the
truck to retrieve a pistol. The pistol was not in there, so

(01:02:37):
Elijah ran to the house. Oh God, because you're imagining
the shit in your pants after yourealize the gun that you were
hoping was there was not there. And remember, Rogers is a very
muscular, well built man who's now charging at you that told
you he murdered two people and wanted you to go to the woods
with. Him.
Yeah, my ass. My heart would just fall right
out my asshole. This calm shit just quickly

(01:02:58):
escalated, you know? In my brain, though, like people
think like, oh, I would just run.
I know what I would do. I would be like, yes, same.
And I probably even like be in my house and not turn around and
Jimmy be standing there and I golike he don't live here.
Like, I don't know, he's here. He's constantly breathing down

(01:03:18):
the back of my neck. You think this surprise would
have worn off by now? Yet he takes my breath away
every time. That's.
What you do there? Listen, I got to keep this sugar
Mama and daddy's situation. Going good you.
Know what I mean? So obviously all this quickly
turned into chaos. Elijah's run into the house

(01:03:39):
trying to get the pistol, Roger is following him.
They're yelling and hollering ateach other and all this quick
chaos. And yelling, Randall and Wicks
gather from the conversation that they were all running to
get a a weapon. So they were like, you know
what? I think we are going to go back
to the house without answers. Maybe I'm.

(01:03:59):
Good. So they got shagged ass.
Well, as Roger's chasing after Elijah towards the house,
Elijah's thinking what if he gets the pistol before I get the
pistol? So Elijah quickly changed his
direction, goes back and hops inhis car and he shags ass too.
He's like, I'm getting out of it, I'm getting out of Dodge.
Elijah jumped in the truck, cranked it up and took off.

(01:04:20):
Wicks and Randall followed. Elijah Rogers jumped in his car
and he took off too. Wixon Randall drove over to
Lawrence's house because they were like, well, this is all a
bunch of hillbilly country shit going on with guns here.
Let's go over and see what's going on with Lawrence.
They told him Roger said he was with Jennifer.
Lawrence denied knowing Jennifer, being with her.

(01:04:42):
He said he didn't even know Rogers.
But Sir, this is a small town. Cut that shit out right now.
Right now. You ain't fooling nobody.
But they left because they believed him.
Oh my God. At this point, Rogers was
definitely looking like the guilty one, and they knew he was
with her the night before. They then decided we're.

(01:05:03):
Going to go back and find him but they couldn't find him just
to like really paint y'all a picture of the small town stuff.
They gave up and they went back to Jennifer's house.
By this time, over 20 people were there already making Flyers
and searching for. They searched all day and
couldn't find anything. There was now a crowd at Lamar's
house too. They told Elijah if he knew
something. That is such like a small town,

(01:05:24):
like the cops ain't going to be there, but everybody else in
town is going to be and. They're out there smoking a
cigarette, everybody. Knows what's going on.
They're on the phone with. Their hairdresser.
Sister's cousin. Yeah, I would believe.
What's? Going on out here.
But you know, there was not shitgoing on.
You didn't have Facebook, you didn't have anything.
So you've seen some shit. You came outside and.
Looked, you did. It was the Facebook.

(01:05:45):
And then you ran and you looked through the blinds when you
called your other friends. You got to get down here, doll.
Or you're still at work, at home, there's some shit going
down. So now there's a crowd at
Lamar's. They told Elijah if he knew
something, he needed to say something.
Let's say see something, say something.
Elijah picked up the phone, called the police and told them

(01:06:07):
everything. And that is the end of Part 1.
Thanks. Thanks.
I'm hanging on all my white trash words.
Yeah, I can't wait everyone. I'm so excited.
It's fun, isn't it? It is fun.
I haven't even told you about her murder yet.
I can't wait to hear it. Oh, you can.

(01:06:28):
I know. So next week we will cover Part
2 and you can find out everything else and hear all
kinds of fun court stuff. But in the meantime, don't
forget to find us on our socials.
Check out Jimmy's TikTok, Sir Chef's Kip's fabulous.
Don't forget to like us, like and subscribe and rate US

(01:06:52):
wherever you listen. We're on most platforms.
We do have merch now. Let us know if you have your own
too close to Home Stories. We have a website.
It's the too close to homepodcast.com.
Jimmy has every one of our episodes listed there.
And until next time. Stay safe, you pan on the swivel

(01:07:12):
and don't bring it so close to home.
The whole neighborhood, standingin your front yard wondering
what in the book is going on. There's Marlboro Lights.
Carl Jahani, he needs to get down.
Here. Bye.
If you enjoyed this episode Too close to Home, don't forget to
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(01:07:35):
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