January 11, 2022 • 25 mins
Today, Tara Thurber sat down with guest Colleen Gutwein O'Neal to discuss her, "Top5 Tips for Embracing the Journey in Academia & the Real World."
Listen as they review strategies for overcoming obstacles throughout the pandemic.
Colleen is a photographer, curator and educator exploring the human experience through personal engagement. She lectures while earning her MA at Rutgers University. Colleen's work is featured in the permanent collection at the Newark Public Library and the Thomas J. Watson Library at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tara Thurber (00:06):
Hey everyone, welcome back to Top5 brought to
you by DefinedTalent. We are aresults driven service working
with clients to connect themwith quality talent, as well as
working to make an impact withinthe recruiting industry. We talk
straight about today'sprofessional world with real
world professionals, experts inrecruitment, job seekers and
(00:28):
business owners alike. Have aquestion for us send it in, you
might spur our nextconversation. I'm Tara Thurber,
Director of Talent Innovation.
And joining me today to discussher "Top5 Tips for Embracing The
Journey in Both Academia & TheReal World" is Colleen Gutwein
O'Neal, Artists, Curator, andEducator. And really an all
around woman that is kickingsome ass out there. Hey,
(00:51):
Colleen, welcome.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (00:53):
Hey, Tara, thanks so much for having
me. You're also an ass kicker.
So you're inviting me on theshow?
Tara Thurber (01:01):
Of course, I'm so excited to have you join us
today. So talk to me a littlebit what's going on in your
world and out there right now?
Both, you know, the art world,but also the academic world?
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (01:16):
Um, yeah, you know, a lot has
shifted since March of 2020.
When we all went into lockdownfor COVID. At that time, I was a
working artist, I had my own. Ihad my own small business that I
was running. And I was teachingat Rutgers, Newark. And when the
pandemic hit, my business wentunder because I wasn't able to
(01:39):
continue. I was a I ran aphotography business. And they
say weddings are what do theycall it? Economy proof or you
know?
Tara Thurber (01:52):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (01:53):
But they're not. And then I was also
afraid to go out and risk, youknow, getting sick. And so my I
had to end up closing mybusiness and really pivot into
the next part of my life, whichwas going back to school, for my
master's degree in AmericanStudies. So I'm almost finished
with that. And at the same time,I'm teaching at the
(02:14):
undergraduate level, I teach,intro to photography, seminar
and contemporary art, and seniorstudio seminar, which is a
program that artists who are intheir senior year of college
will work in their studios. Sothat was really difficult to do
over zoom. But, you know, thestudents were really committed,
they showed up, they werecommitted to themselves, they
(02:37):
were committed to theireducation, they were committed
to their art and their artisticprocess. So it made my job
really fulfilling.
Tara Thurber (02:46):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (02:47):
So that's, that's what's been going
on. Also, I'm a long termvolunteer for Index Art Center,
which is a nonprofit gallery inNewark, New Jersey, and pretty
much all programming stopped,because of the virus. So, you
know, things really got turnedon their head.
Tara Thurber (03:04):
Yeah. Well, and now, you know, shifting and all
the many conversations that youand I have had, over the past
couple of months, it's shiftinginto the digital and shifting
academics shifting, beingvirtual, and, you know, artists,
how are they shifting andpivoting? So I think you're
(03:25):
showing success with what you'vedone. And the fact that you're
saying to that the students arejust committed is, it just warms
my heart because I feel thatthere has been such a shift. And
it's good to know that theartists are still embracing
that. And I know, you know, with2022, you know, here, what does
(03:48):
that look like nowadays, foracademics and in the real world
for artists?
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (03:54):
Yeah, I think it's, you know, you can
look at it as a negative, like,look at all this stuff that we
lost, but I look at it really onthe positive side is like, look,
at this point, we can beginfrom, you know, people are much
more socially conscious. Artistsare much more socially
conscious. And when my studentssay, like, when I graduate,
like, I don't know what I'mgoing to do, like, the world is
(04:17):
so different, like the world iswhatever you want to make it
right now. Like, it's your timeto like, really go for it. And
so I always show this onespeech, like Class Day Lecture
by Taizhou Cole. And he'stalking about like, no matter
what you do, no matter what yourarea of interest is, like,
you've got to do it and like,think about like, who can you
(04:37):
help with this?
Tara Thurber (04:38):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (04:39):
Like because your actions have
action, like your actions mean alot to people that you'll never
meet. So being really consciousabout what you're doing and how
you're doing it is important.
Tara Thurber (04:51):
I love that and I got goosebumps before too. It
just, it. It makes sense. And Ifeel to with the shift and the
pivot to A lot of virtual stuff,I feel that artists are now
really able to expand theirviewers expand to who they're
making an impact to. It's notjust people that, you know,
(05:13):
you're, you're having an artopening, and it's people that
are going to come and physicallybe present. But now you you have
a blank slate to make it whatyou want it to be to make it and
shift it and and make thattransition so to speak.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (05:30):
Yeah, I think art is more accessible to
people, and it's more accessibleto other artists. So I think it
could get oversaturatedsometimes there's too many
options. So, you know, reallyfocusing in on what you are
interested in and doing yourhomework and doing your
research. They're not just goingalong with whatever's popular at
the moment is important becauseof that oversaturation. But the
(05:54):
accessibility is great, likepeople who can't physically
access pieces are now part ofthe conversation. But I think
it's important that we alsoacknowledge that not everybody
has that access. And that's aprivilege to have a computer or
phone or a tablet and theinternet.
Tara Thurber (06:09):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (06:09):
You know, and you thinking about,
like, how do we make things bothphysically and digitally
accessible to people, I thinkit's really important as
artists, and just as like,normal people,
Tara Thurber (06:19):
Humans. We are all one, we are all humans in this
together.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (06:26):
We're all going through the struggle
right now.
Tara Thurber (06:28):
Yeah, and I think, you know, throughout the ups and
downs that I've gone through,with COVID, even and their
struggles, it's, there's so muchof a silver lining that's come
out of it, and shifting andlooking at what 2022 is bringing
to us, I mean, it's a blankslate. And if you as a human,
(06:53):
have something inside that youwant to share, or you have a
drive, you have a you have apassion, then go for it, you've
got that freedom to go for it.
Because you don't have theblocks that may you may have had
in past years. And things aredifferent. So I feel that, you
know, I keep saying, I keepsaying to my husband that I'm
(07:15):
like, I never had to deal withthis kind of stuff. When I was a
kid, I had, I'm catching myself,kind of like what is going on.
But it's it's the hardships thatwe're getting through. But it's
also this, this future that isnot paved yet. So it's allowing
us to pave our own ways. It'sallowing the students of today
(07:39):
to pave their own way fortomorrow, and make an even
bigger impact on in the socialaspect of it or in just in
humanity in general.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (07:56):
Yeah, I think students especially, you
know, I felt really bad forthem, because they had, they
were doing their college thing.
And then they had to, like, gohome and live with their
parents. So like, I was reallyfeeling for my students, but,
you know, I know that they'regonna, they're gonna be able to
make their dreams come true. Andthey're gonna be able to help
people just through theirpassion and like how much they
really, really care about whatthey're doing. And I think if
(08:18):
you have that drive, it can takeyou anywhere.
Tara Thurber (08:22):
And I think too, it allows people to get more
creative, and inventive, so tospeak. I mean, there's so many
different tools out there. Andtechnology has, like, gone like
fast forward. Um, so I feelthat, you know, individuals can
(08:43):
make things happen, you know,they can get shit done it but
just at a different capacitynowadays.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (08:50):
Yeah, I think everybody is like change
their perspective on what ispossible. I had one student who
was a ceramicist. And then COVIDhood, and she didn't have access
to a wheel or clay, but she hadto figure out how she was gonna
make her project. And she justlooked around her house. And
she's like, I have all of thispaper that I could recycle. But
instead, I'm going to make paperclay and make my vessels out of
(09:12):
paper clay, and then pour waterthrough them and destroy them at
the end. And I was like, youknow, if you were just working
on the wheel, like, none ofthose doors would open. So I
feel like every time you know, Iknow, it sounds cliche, but
every time one door closes.
There's like a million windowsthat crack open. You just have
to like peek in and see like, isthis the way I want to go?
Tara Thurber (09:33):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (09:33):
That you just didn't even know were there
before. So yeah, there's a lotof opportunity. And I think
people really were able to getin touch with themselves and
understand what was superimportant for them over the past
two years.
Tara Thurber (09:47):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (09:47):
And I think that's gonna make a huge
difference.
Tara Thurber (09:51):
Yeah, I think so too. And, you know, kind of
going back it's it's allowinginto individuals, I like the
self care and the human approachfor themselves. But it's also
allowing individuals to reachout and support one another in
(10:11):
different ways, and even meetother people and get different
ideas at a larger with a largernet, so to speak. You know, and
I feel that students graduating,I'm sure, I mean, you're, you'll
be the one that told me but I'msure students graduating are
(10:34):
like, What do I do now? And inthe end, in my world, I mean, I
have so many people that the,the list goes on, I have so many
people that are fresh out ofcollege looking for jobs now.
And it's like, you just got toget creative. Think about who
you are, and what drives you andwhat lights that fire and
(10:55):
passion inside to get your nextjob or to get your next role or
to find that next path, becausethat's how you're going to be
able to move forward, you can'tbe on anybody's coattails,
because this is your path. It'syour journey. And if you're
passionate about it, you'regoing to be successful. And
(11:15):
that's where it all drives from.
Right?
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (11:19):
Yeah, I think it's helpful to like, look
at people in your field, or infields that you're interested in
and see what they do see howthey've done it and kind of a
little mimicry, not, you know,don't rip people off, but you
can grow and see how they'vebuilt their careers. But also,
you know, I remember graduatingfrom undergrad and I didn't know
(11:40):
what I was, like, I don't thinkthat's just this generation of
students. Like, that's a normalfeeling. And it's okay to feel
that way. Because you've justbeen in school since
kindergarten, like.
Tara Thurber (11:51):
Yeah
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (11:51):
It's a huge, huge life shift. And then
you're supposed to, like, beexpected to know exactly what
you want to do, and have thisconcrete plan. But that's not
how life works. So I think it'sokay to not flounder but like,
try different things and findyour groove.
Tara Thurber (12:08):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (12:08):
That's okay to not know exactly what
you want to do. It's all right.
Tara Thurber (12:13):
Yeah, I've had a couple of clients that came to
me for life coaching and careercoaching, and their recent
graduates. And they're justlike, comparing themselves
looking on social media andcomparing themselves to
everybody, but yet sitting athome in their head and stewing
(12:35):
in it, and I'm like, stop whatyou're doing. Stop. First and
foremost, stop comparingyourself to anybody else, you're
where you need to be right whereyou need to be at this time,
what you need to now do isfigure out what makes you tick,
what makes you happy? And whatmakes your passion come alive.
(12:56):
And that's where you take yourfirst steps.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (12:59):
Yeah, I know that there's that, quote,
comparison is the thief of joyor something like that. And it
is like, there's always gonna besomebody better than you. And if
you just accept that it's wayeasier. Somebody is gonna be
richer, better, looking taller,whatever, like, you can't, you
can't continuously compareyourself or you, it will be
(13:20):
depressing. And you are notthose people. And they're not
sharing, like, the dark side orthe bad side, because everybody
goes through those dark times.
But we don't share them becausethey're hard. So yeah, I think
comparison is a, it's a tough,it's a tough route to go.
Tara Thurber (13:39):
It's definitely a tough route. And it's something
just not to do, I think that'slike something I'm like, stop, I
have to catch myself. I catchmyself at it. But it's, it's
true. And, you know, it reallystinks that a lot of I noticed
it in a lot of younger people.
Whether they compare themselvesto others, I will they have a
(14:00):
bigger house, or they have thesetypes of clothes. And it's like,
you want to stop that rightthere. And it comes throughout
your entire life and what youthink you compare yourself to
other people may be comparingthemselves to you. And, you
know, again, coming back toembracing your own journey,
(14:23):
that's what's most important,you know, academically,
professionally, creatively, youknow, personally, it all comes
back to your own path as anindividual and as a human and
how, what is your purpose? Whatis your purpose? And how can you
make an impact in order foryourself to show up as your best
(14:44):
self 24/7 Because that's whatreally matters.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (14:50):
Yeah, it doesn't matter what name brand
sweater you have or what shoesyou have, or, you know, none of
that really matters. It's aboutwhat you say what you do. and
how you do it.
Tara Thurber (15:01):
I like that.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (15:02):
It's how you treat people.
Tara Thurber (15:03):
Yes, yes. And I feel like rocket into 2022
That's like, a big basis is thatshould be a huge platform for
people to be standing on. And,and cheering each other on and
supporting each other andhelping one another. And, and,
you know, not only helpingyourself in going within, but
(15:24):
also putting it out there andsupporting others because you
can't do it alone. And
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (15:32):
Nor do you want to!
Tara Thurber (15:33):
Right. And the more people you can embrace and
pull together and ask questions,you know, get creative and get
curious. Get curious, becausealways be learning and always be
moving forward. And you can't dothat unless you're curious
asking questions and, andwanting to open that up to more
(15:55):
people than just with yourblinders on.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (15:57):
Yeah.
Tara Thurber (15:58):
Because..
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (15:58):
Yeah.
Tara Thurber (15:59):
Where's that gonna really get you?
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (16:00):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think I think a
community aspect and cheeringeach other on is really, really
important. Like, you don't wantto do better than your friend,
like, I want your friend tosucceed. And I think the other
thing is like, what I find to bedifficult sometimes is that
(16:21):
people who can't cheer on yoursuccess is is tough, but it
doesn't mean that they're bad,they can still be your friends.
But also to like, remember tocheer your friends on. Like,
when they're doing somethinggreat, or you know, your
colleagues, like when they'vegotten a grant or, you know,
they've published an article orwhatever, like sending that
little email to, like, let themknow that you're cheering them
(16:43):
on. It goes a long way. And itmakes when I do that, I feel
better. But also, like, I wantmy friends and my colleagues to
know, like, I'm payingattention, and I care about your
success. And that's a genuinething. And I think, you know,
it's helpful to be able to dothat and not be worried that
like, Should I do this or be I'mnot competing with them?
Tara Thurber (17:03):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (17:03):
Like we're together on the journey,
not like, competing against eachother. So when I find grants for
artists and presidencies, Ishare them with my, with, like
my group of people, because I'mlike, if I don't get it, then I
want my friend, not somebody Idon't know. Or the country, you
know. So that whole idea oflike, we all rise together is
(17:24):
important to me.
Tara Thurber (17:25):
I like that. I like that a lot. I think that
that's a good a good mantra for,you know, the net, this next
year. Anyways, I want to getinto yourTop5 tips, I'm super
pumped for us to go throughthese. Alright, let's let's jump
into your "Top5 Tips forEmbracing the Journey Both in
(17:48):
The Academic World & In The RealWorld".
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (17:51):
Yeah, so my real world is in the arts,
mostly in Newark, New Jersey,and my academic world is also at
Rutgers, New Jersey, both as astudent and a teacher. So my
Top5 would when I'm thinkingabout my students really was the
first one is to get to knowyourself, and to challenge
(18:13):
yourself on your own terms. Sonot always having a buddy with
you. Like you have to have someof that time. And I think a lot
of the students did during ourlockdown, but like to really get
to know who you are, andexperience yourself and connect.
Because if you don't giveyourself the time to do that,
it's going to be really hard tocreate a path down the road
later. So that's the firstthing. The second of my Top5 is
(18:39):
to commit to a central axis fromwhich all of the rest of your
work will emanate. So for me,it's photography. And when I was
out of school, I did a littletraveling, and I signed a
document with myself, I signed acontract that art was the most
important thing in my life. Andso that was the central axis.
(18:59):
And within art I studied as aphotographer. So the reason why
I say this central axis isbecause it's so easy to drift
off and be like, well, thisweek, I want to make clothes.
And next week, I'm going to be agardener and like those things
are great, but those are myhobbies, not like the main
focus. And so everything goingthrough this like central axis
(19:21):
will give you some restraint.
And in those restraints, itbecomes like a very creative
thing to figure out like, how doyou work within restraints, it's
really helpful. Number three isdo the work. My friend Jerry
Gant used to always say this,you know, you could talk all you
want, but the people who aremaking it are the ones who are
showing up and doing the workand he's a prolific Newark
(19:44):
artists. And I mean, the amountof work he created in his
lifetime is staggering. Andthat's something that always
runs through my head. Just dothe work, do the work, even if
you think you're failing if youkeep moving that ball forward.
are, you know, or Sisyphus upthe hill like you're going to
get somewhere. Um, number fouris to build long lasting and
(20:07):
trusting relationships withfolks in your field. And with
folks who have overlappinginterests. And that's different
from like networking. So youhave your, your network of
artists or network ofcolleagues. But those are very,
they're not your friends, likethat's your networks and their
connections. But then there'sfriends that are going to last
(20:29):
your lifetime. And they're goingto be there when things get
tough. And you're not going totalk to like someone you
networked two weeks ago about,you know, what you're going
through personally, and they'renot going to understand that. So
that connection to community,and you're really, really strong
bonds are, are important,they're important. And then the
(20:49):
final Top5, wow, is following myjourney. As a photographer, I
did a documentary about artistswho are working in Newark, the
arts community, andinternationally renowned
artists, Willie Cole was so kindto let me interview him and
(21:11):
photograph him in his homestudio. And in my eyes, he's
such a successful artist. And soI asked him, like, what advice
would you give me like, like tokeep going, like, you know, I
feel like I'm floundering. Andhe said, "Trust In the
Universe." And that was in 2018.
And that has been my mantra eversince. And, you know, when my
(21:32):
business was going under, I waslike, I just have to trust that
it's going to be okay. And thatis you, it always is. So, you
know, if you are following yourpath, and you're true to
yourself, just trust in theuniverse, and, you know, things
will work out. Very, very, veryoptimistic.
Tara Thurber (21:58):
But, you know, calling all of these are
amazing. And you're right, it'sstarting with yourself, getting
yourself, getting to knowyourself, and then finding that
I like the idea of the centralaxis, getting in doing the work.
And then it's building thoserelationships, and then it's
going bigger, and it's, it's theuniverse, this is what we're in.
(22:19):
And I know, you know, even formyself, I'm always saying, you
know, trust the universe, theuniverse is handing you this
deck of cards for a reason theuniverse is, you know, making
you jump through these hoops fora reason or putting these
hardships on you for a reason.
Because, I mean, look at whereyou were and where you've come
now over the past two years. Imean, it's amazing. If you can
(22:42):
just take a step back, take abreath, get yourself centered,
and know and believe, and trust,like you could know, yeah, okay.
Yeah, the universe really deeplycoming back to trusting the
universe. And your gutinstincts, you know, and I think
(23:03):
that that is probably one of thebest Top5 that I've had, when
looking at this life as a whole.
I love the idea of utilizingthat and, you know, taking this,
you know, we're we're in 2022,we're approaching this new year,
(23:24):
we're in this new year, andeverybody's got these goals and,
but take a step back. And trustthe journey.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (23:33):
Yeah, because if you don't like I
mean, there's no straight linebetween...
Tara Thurber (23:38):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (23:38):
The idea and the final product, like it's
all about the journey, which Iknow, these are like, cliches
that people say all the time,but there's a reason why people
say them all the time.
Tara Thurber (23:46):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (23:47):
And like, you know, some people have
more advantages than others. Andyou know, it's not super easy, I
think for anybody but like.
Tara Thurber (23:55):
No.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (23:56):
You know, acknowledging how
difficult the road is that it'sgoing to be winding and that
like, you build your communityand you build your friends by
like cheering on those peoplewho are on similar paths as you
and then you know, you can getthrough together and I think
that's really important too. Andyou know, not just a social
network, but like people thatyou can count on that are
Tara Thurber (24:17):
Yup
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (24:17):
Be there for you. That's I don't think
it's possible
Tara Thurber (24:24):
I agree. I agree in so many ways with that.
Awesome, well, listen, Calleenthank you so much for joining us
today and really giving us yourTop5 for embracing the journey
both in the academic world andyou know, overall in the real
world. It's, it's crazy outthere but I'm so happy you came
(24:47):
with us today and you joined us.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (24:49):
Thank you so much for having me. It's
such a pleasure being on thepodcast and I'm wishing
everybody like a bright andhappy new year.
Tara Thurber (24:59):
We are DefinedTalent coming to you at
Top5 make it a great day.
Hey everyone, welcome back to Top5 brought to
you by DefinedTalent. We are aresults driven service working
with clients to connect themwith quality talent, as well as
working to make an impact withinthe recruiting industry. We talk
straight about today'sprofessional world with real
world professionals, experts inrecruitment, job seekers and
(00:28):
business owners alike. Have aquestion for us send it in, you
might spur our nextconversation. I'm Tara Thurber,
Director of Talent Innovation.
And joining me today to discussher "Top5 Tips for Embracing The
Journey in Both Academia & TheReal World" is Colleen Gutwein
O'Neal, Artists, Curator, andEducator. And really an all
around woman that is kickingsome ass out there. Hey,
(00:51):
Colleen, welcome.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (00:53):
Hey, Tara, thanks so much for having
me. You're also an ass kicker.
So you're inviting me on theshow?
Tara Thurber (01:01):
Of course, I'm so excited to have you join us
today. So talk to me a littlebit what's going on in your
world and out there right now?
Both, you know, the art world,but also the academic world?
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (01:16):
Um, yeah, you know, a lot has
shifted since March of 2020.
When we all went into lockdownfor COVID. At that time, I was a
working artist, I had my own. Ihad my own small business that I
was running. And I was teachingat Rutgers, Newark. And when the
pandemic hit, my business wentunder because I wasn't able to
(01:39):
continue. I was a I ran aphotography business. And they
say weddings are what do theycall it? Economy proof or you
know?
Tara Thurber (01:52):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (01:53):
But they're not. And then I was also
afraid to go out and risk, youknow, getting sick. And so my I
had to end up closing mybusiness and really pivot into
the next part of my life, whichwas going back to school, for my
master's degree in AmericanStudies. So I'm almost finished
with that. And at the same time,I'm teaching at the
(02:14):
undergraduate level, I teach,intro to photography, seminar
and contemporary art, and seniorstudio seminar, which is a
program that artists who are intheir senior year of college
will work in their studios. Sothat was really difficult to do
over zoom. But, you know, thestudents were really committed,
they showed up, they werecommitted to themselves, they
(02:37):
were committed to theireducation, they were committed
to their art and their artisticprocess. So it made my job
really fulfilling.
Tara Thurber (02:46):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (02:47):
So that's, that's what's been going
on. Also, I'm a long termvolunteer for Index Art Center,
which is a nonprofit gallery inNewark, New Jersey, and pretty
much all programming stopped,because of the virus. So, you
know, things really got turnedon their head.
Tara Thurber (03:04):
Yeah. Well, and now, you know, shifting and all
the many conversations that youand I have had, over the past
couple of months, it's shiftinginto the digital and shifting
academics shifting, beingvirtual, and, you know, artists,
how are they shifting andpivoting? So I think you're
(03:25):
showing success with what you'vedone. And the fact that you're
saying to that the students arejust committed is, it just warms
my heart because I feel thatthere has been such a shift. And
it's good to know that theartists are still embracing
that. And I know, you know, with2022, you know, here, what does
(03:48):
that look like nowadays, foracademics and in the real world
for artists?
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (03:54):
Yeah, I think it's, you know, you can
look at it as a negative, like,look at all this stuff that we
lost, but I look at it really onthe positive side is like, look,
at this point, we can beginfrom, you know, people are much
more socially conscious. Artistsare much more socially
conscious. And when my studentssay, like, when I graduate,
like, I don't know what I'mgoing to do, like, the world is
(04:17):
so different, like the world iswhatever you want to make it
right now. Like, it's your timeto like, really go for it. And
so I always show this onespeech, like Class Day Lecture
by Taizhou Cole. And he'stalking about like, no matter
what you do, no matter what yourarea of interest is, like,
you've got to do it and like,think about like, who can you
(04:37):
help with this?
Tara Thurber (04:38):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (04:39):
Like because your actions have
action, like your actions mean alot to people that you'll never
meet. So being really consciousabout what you're doing and how
you're doing it is important.
Tara Thurber (04:51):
I love that and I got goosebumps before too. It
just, it. It makes sense. And Ifeel to with the shift and the
pivot to A lot of virtual stuff,I feel that artists are now
really able to expand theirviewers expand to who they're
making an impact to. It's notjust people that, you know,
(05:13):
you're, you're having an artopening, and it's people that
are going to come and physicallybe present. But now you you have
a blank slate to make it whatyou want it to be to make it and
shift it and and make thattransition so to speak.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (05:30):
Yeah, I think art is more accessible to
people, and it's more accessibleto other artists. So I think it
could get oversaturatedsometimes there's too many
options. So, you know, reallyfocusing in on what you are
interested in and doing yourhomework and doing your
research. They're not just goingalong with whatever's popular at
the moment is important becauseof that oversaturation. But the
(05:54):
accessibility is great, likepeople who can't physically
access pieces are now part ofthe conversation. But I think
it's important that we alsoacknowledge that not everybody
has that access. And that's aprivilege to have a computer or
phone or a tablet and theinternet.
Tara Thurber (06:09):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (06:09):
You know, and you thinking about,
like, how do we make things bothphysically and digitally
accessible to people, I thinkit's really important as
artists, and just as like,normal people,
Tara Thurber (06:19):
Humans. We are all one, we are all humans in this
together.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (06:26):
We're all going through the struggle
right now.
Tara Thurber (06:28):
Yeah, and I think, you know, throughout the ups and
downs that I've gone through,with COVID, even and their
struggles, it's, there's so muchof a silver lining that's come
out of it, and shifting andlooking at what 2022 is bringing
to us, I mean, it's a blankslate. And if you as a human,
(06:53):
have something inside that youwant to share, or you have a
drive, you have a you have apassion, then go for it, you've
got that freedom to go for it.
Because you don't have theblocks that may you may have had
in past years. And things aredifferent. So I feel that, you
know, I keep saying, I keepsaying to my husband that I'm
(07:15):
like, I never had to deal withthis kind of stuff. When I was a
kid, I had, I'm catching myself,kind of like what is going on.
But it's it's the hardships thatwe're getting through. But it's
also this, this future that isnot paved yet. So it's allowing
us to pave our own ways. It'sallowing the students of today
(07:39):
to pave their own way fortomorrow, and make an even
bigger impact on in the socialaspect of it or in just in
humanity in general.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (07:56):
Yeah, I think students especially, you
know, I felt really bad forthem, because they had, they
were doing their college thing.
And then they had to, like, gohome and live with their
parents. So like, I was reallyfeeling for my students, but,
you know, I know that they'regonna, they're gonna be able to
make their dreams come true. Andthey're gonna be able to help
people just through theirpassion and like how much they
really, really care about whatthey're doing. And I think if
(08:18):
you have that drive, it can takeyou anywhere.
Tara Thurber (08:22):
And I think too, it allows people to get more
creative, and inventive, so tospeak. I mean, there's so many
different tools out there. Andtechnology has, like, gone like
fast forward. Um, so I feelthat, you know, individuals can
(08:43):
make things happen, you know,they can get shit done it but
just at a different capacitynowadays.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (08:50):
Yeah, I think everybody is like change
their perspective on what ispossible. I had one student who
was a ceramicist. And then COVIDhood, and she didn't have access
to a wheel or clay, but she hadto figure out how she was gonna
make her project. And she justlooked around her house. And
she's like, I have all of thispaper that I could recycle. But
instead, I'm going to make paperclay and make my vessels out of
(09:12):
paper clay, and then pour waterthrough them and destroy them at
the end. And I was like, youknow, if you were just working
on the wheel, like, none ofthose doors would open. So I
feel like every time you know, Iknow, it sounds cliche, but
every time one door closes.
There's like a million windowsthat crack open. You just have
to like peek in and see like, isthis the way I want to go?
Tara Thurber (09:33):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (09:33):
That you just didn't even know were there
before. So yeah, there's a lotof opportunity. And I think
people really were able to getin touch with themselves and
understand what was superimportant for them over the past
two years.
Tara Thurber (09:47):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (09:47):
And I think that's gonna make a huge
difference.
Tara Thurber (09:51):
Yeah, I think so too. And, you know, kind of
going back it's it's allowinginto individuals, I like the
self care and the human approachfor themselves. But it's also
allowing individuals to reachout and support one another in
(10:11):
different ways, and even meetother people and get different
ideas at a larger with a largernet, so to speak. You know, and
I feel that students graduating,I'm sure, I mean, you're, you'll
be the one that told me but I'msure students graduating are
(10:34):
like, What do I do now? And inthe end, in my world, I mean, I
have so many people that the,the list goes on, I have so many
people that are fresh out ofcollege looking for jobs now.
And it's like, you just got toget creative. Think about who
you are, and what drives you andwhat lights that fire and
(10:55):
passion inside to get your nextjob or to get your next role or
to find that next path, becausethat's how you're going to be
able to move forward, you can'tbe on anybody's coattails,
because this is your path. It'syour journey. And if you're
passionate about it, you'regoing to be successful. And
(11:15):
that's where it all drives from.
Right?
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (11:19):
Yeah, I think it's helpful to like, look
at people in your field, or infields that you're interested in
and see what they do see howthey've done it and kind of a
little mimicry, not, you know,don't rip people off, but you
can grow and see how they'vebuilt their careers. But also,
you know, I remember graduatingfrom undergrad and I didn't know
(11:40):
what I was, like, I don't thinkthat's just this generation of
students. Like, that's a normalfeeling. And it's okay to feel
that way. Because you've justbeen in school since
kindergarten, like.
Tara Thurber (11:51):
Yeah
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (11:51):
It's a huge, huge life shift. And then
you're supposed to, like, beexpected to know exactly what
you want to do, and have thisconcrete plan. But that's not
how life works. So I think it'sokay to not flounder but like,
try different things and findyour groove.
Tara Thurber (12:08):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (12:08):
That's okay to not know exactly what
you want to do. It's all right.
Tara Thurber (12:13):
Yeah, I've had a couple of clients that came to
me for life coaching and careercoaching, and their recent
graduates. And they're justlike, comparing themselves
looking on social media andcomparing themselves to
everybody, but yet sitting athome in their head and stewing
(12:35):
in it, and I'm like, stop whatyou're doing. Stop. First and
foremost, stop comparingyourself to anybody else, you're
where you need to be right whereyou need to be at this time,
what you need to now do isfigure out what makes you tick,
what makes you happy? And whatmakes your passion come alive.
(12:56):
And that's where you take yourfirst steps.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (12:59):
Yeah, I know that there's that, quote,
comparison is the thief of joyor something like that. And it
is like, there's always gonna besomebody better than you. And if
you just accept that it's wayeasier. Somebody is gonna be
richer, better, looking taller,whatever, like, you can't, you
can't continuously compareyourself or you, it will be
(13:20):
depressing. And you are notthose people. And they're not
sharing, like, the dark side orthe bad side, because everybody
goes through those dark times.
But we don't share them becausethey're hard. So yeah, I think
comparison is a, it's a tough,it's a tough route to go.
Tara Thurber (13:39):
It's definitely a tough route. And it's something
just not to do, I think that'slike something I'm like, stop, I
have to catch myself. I catchmyself at it. But it's, it's
true. And, you know, it reallystinks that a lot of I noticed
it in a lot of younger people.
Whether they compare themselvesto others, I will they have a
(14:00):
bigger house, or they have thesetypes of clothes. And it's like,
you want to stop that rightthere. And it comes throughout
your entire life and what youthink you compare yourself to
other people may be comparingthemselves to you. And, you
know, again, coming back toembracing your own journey,
(14:23):
that's what's most important,you know, academically,
professionally, creatively, youknow, personally, it all comes
back to your own path as anindividual and as a human and
how, what is your purpose? Whatis your purpose? And how can you
make an impact in order foryourself to show up as your best
(14:44):
self 24/7 Because that's whatreally matters.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (14:50):
Yeah, it doesn't matter what name brand
sweater you have or what shoesyou have, or, you know, none of
that really matters. It's aboutwhat you say what you do. and
how you do it.
Tara Thurber (15:01):
I like that.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (15:02):
It's how you treat people.
Tara Thurber (15:03):
Yes, yes. And I feel like rocket into 2022
That's like, a big basis is thatshould be a huge platform for
people to be standing on. And,and cheering each other on and
supporting each other andhelping one another. And, and,
you know, not only helpingyourself in going within, but
(15:24):
also putting it out there andsupporting others because you
can't do it alone. And
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (15:32):
Nor do you want to!
Tara Thurber (15:33):
Right. And the more people you can embrace and
pull together and ask questions,you know, get creative and get
curious. Get curious, becausealways be learning and always be
moving forward. And you can't dothat unless you're curious
asking questions and, andwanting to open that up to more
(15:55):
people than just with yourblinders on.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (15:57):
Yeah.
Tara Thurber (15:58):
Because..
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (15:58):
Yeah.
Tara Thurber (15:59):
Where's that gonna really get you?
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (16:00):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think I think a
community aspect and cheeringeach other on is really, really
important. Like, you don't wantto do better than your friend,
like, I want your friend tosucceed. And I think the other
thing is like, what I find to bedifficult sometimes is that
(16:21):
people who can't cheer on yoursuccess is is tough, but it
doesn't mean that they're bad,they can still be your friends.
But also to like, remember tocheer your friends on. Like,
when they're doing somethinggreat, or you know, your
colleagues, like when they'vegotten a grant or, you know,
they've published an article orwhatever, like sending that
little email to, like, let themknow that you're cheering them
(16:43):
on. It goes a long way. And itmakes when I do that, I feel
better. But also, like, I wantmy friends and my colleagues to
know, like, I'm payingattention, and I care about your
success. And that's a genuinething. And I think, you know,
it's helpful to be able to dothat and not be worried that
like, Should I do this or be I'mnot competing with them?
Tara Thurber (17:03):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (17:03):
Like we're together on the journey,
not like, competing against eachother. So when I find grants for
artists and presidencies, Ishare them with my, with, like
my group of people, because I'mlike, if I don't get it, then I
want my friend, not somebody Idon't know. Or the country, you
know. So that whole idea oflike, we all rise together is
(17:24):
important to me.
Tara Thurber (17:25):
I like that. I like that a lot. I think that
that's a good a good mantra for,you know, the net, this next
year. Anyways, I want to getinto yourTop5 tips, I'm super
pumped for us to go throughthese. Alright, let's let's jump
into your "Top5 Tips forEmbracing the Journey Both in
(17:48):
The Academic World & In The RealWorld".
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (17:51):
Yeah, so my real world is in the arts,
mostly in Newark, New Jersey,and my academic world is also at
Rutgers, New Jersey, both as astudent and a teacher. So my
Top5 would when I'm thinkingabout my students really was the
first one is to get to knowyourself, and to challenge
(18:13):
yourself on your own terms. Sonot always having a buddy with
you. Like you have to have someof that time. And I think a lot
of the students did during ourlockdown, but like to really get
to know who you are, andexperience yourself and connect.
Because if you don't giveyourself the time to do that,
it's going to be really hard tocreate a path down the road
later. So that's the firstthing. The second of my Top5 is
(18:39):
to commit to a central axis fromwhich all of the rest of your
work will emanate. So for me,it's photography. And when I was
out of school, I did a littletraveling, and I signed a
document with myself, I signed acontract that art was the most
important thing in my life. Andso that was the central axis.
(18:59):
And within art I studied as aphotographer. So the reason why
I say this central axis isbecause it's so easy to drift
off and be like, well, thisweek, I want to make clothes.
And next week, I'm going to be agardener and like those things
are great, but those are myhobbies, not like the main
focus. And so everything goingthrough this like central axis
(19:21):
will give you some restraint.
And in those restraints, itbecomes like a very creative
thing to figure out like, how doyou work within restraints, it's
really helpful. Number three isdo the work. My friend Jerry
Gant used to always say this,you know, you could talk all you
want, but the people who aremaking it are the ones who are
showing up and doing the workand he's a prolific Newark
(19:44):
artists. And I mean, the amountof work he created in his
lifetime is staggering. Andthat's something that always
runs through my head. Just dothe work, do the work, even if
you think you're failing if youkeep moving that ball forward.
are, you know, or Sisyphus upthe hill like you're going to
get somewhere. Um, number fouris to build long lasting and
(20:07):
trusting relationships withfolks in your field. And with
folks who have overlappinginterests. And that's different
from like networking. So youhave your, your network of
artists or network ofcolleagues. But those are very,
they're not your friends, likethat's your networks and their
connections. But then there'sfriends that are going to last
(20:29):
your lifetime. And they're goingto be there when things get
tough. And you're not going totalk to like someone you
networked two weeks ago about,you know, what you're going
through personally, and they'renot going to understand that. So
that connection to community,and you're really, really strong
bonds are, are important,they're important. And then the
(20:49):
final Top5, wow, is following myjourney. As a photographer, I
did a documentary about artistswho are working in Newark, the
arts community, andinternationally renowned
artists, Willie Cole was so kindto let me interview him and
(21:11):
photograph him in his homestudio. And in my eyes, he's
such a successful artist. And soI asked him, like, what advice
would you give me like, like tokeep going, like, you know, I
feel like I'm floundering. Andhe said, "Trust In the
Universe." And that was in 2018.
And that has been my mantra eversince. And, you know, when my
(21:32):
business was going under, I waslike, I just have to trust that
it's going to be okay. And thatis you, it always is. So, you
know, if you are following yourpath, and you're true to
yourself, just trust in theuniverse, and, you know, things
will work out. Very, very, veryoptimistic.
Tara Thurber (21:58):
But, you know, calling all of these are
amazing. And you're right, it'sstarting with yourself, getting
yourself, getting to knowyourself, and then finding that
I like the idea of the centralaxis, getting in doing the work.
And then it's building thoserelationships, and then it's
going bigger, and it's, it's theuniverse, this is what we're in.
(22:19):
And I know, you know, even formyself, I'm always saying, you
know, trust the universe, theuniverse is handing you this
deck of cards for a reason theuniverse is, you know, making
you jump through these hoops fora reason or putting these
hardships on you for a reason.
Because, I mean, look at whereyou were and where you've come
now over the past two years. Imean, it's amazing. If you can
(22:42):
just take a step back, take abreath, get yourself centered,
and know and believe, and trust,like you could know, yeah, okay.
Yeah, the universe really deeplycoming back to trusting the
universe. And your gutinstincts, you know, and I think
(23:03):
that that is probably one of thebest Top5 that I've had, when
looking at this life as a whole.
I love the idea of utilizingthat and, you know, taking this,
you know, we're we're in 2022,we're approaching this new year,
(23:24):
we're in this new year, andeverybody's got these goals and,
but take a step back. And trustthe journey.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (23:33):
Yeah, because if you don't like I
mean, there's no straight linebetween...
Tara Thurber (23:38):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (23:38):
The idea and the final product, like it's
all about the journey, which Iknow, these are like, cliches
that people say all the time,but there's a reason why people
say them all the time.
Tara Thurber (23:46):
Yeah.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (23:47):
And like, you know, some people have
more advantages than others. Andyou know, it's not super easy, I
think for anybody but like.
Tara Thurber (23:55):
No.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (23:56):
You know, acknowledging how
difficult the road is that it'sgoing to be winding and that
like, you build your communityand you build your friends by
like cheering on those peoplewho are on similar paths as you
and then you know, you can getthrough together and I think
that's really important too. Andyou know, not just a social
network, but like people thatyou can count on that are
Tara Thurber (24:17):
Yup
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (24:17):
Be there for you. That's I don't think
it's possible
Tara Thurber (24:24):
I agree. I agree in so many ways with that.
Awesome, well, listen, Calleenthank you so much for joining us
today and really giving us yourTop5 for embracing the journey
both in the academic world andyou know, overall in the real
world. It's, it's crazy outthere but I'm so happy you came
(24:47):
with us today and you joined us.
Colleen Gutwein O'Neal (24:49):
Thank you so much for having me. It's
such a pleasure being on thepodcast and I'm wishing
everybody like a bright andhappy new year.
Tara Thurber (24:59):
We are DefinedTalent coming to you at
Top5 make it a great day.
Popular Podcasts
1. Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
2. Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
3. Crime Junkie
If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people.