April 11, 2025 • 37 mins
Tara Thurber and Clark Lagemann of Avidon Health discuss balancing high performance, leadership, and personal life. Clark emphasizes dynamic balance, prioritization, and being present in each moment. He shares his journey from healthcare to founding Avid on Health, focusing on behavior change. Clark highlights strategies like ruthless prioritization, daily physical activity, clear communication, and embracing chaos. He stresses the importance of accountability, both personal and professional, and the need to define personal success. Clark also advises protecting one's calendar, being selective with commitments, and the concept of "pouring from your cup" to achieve long-term success.
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Tara Thurber (00:04):
Hey everyone, welcome back. I'm Tara Thurber,
Founder and Director ofPartnerships here at define
talent. And joining me today isClark lageman, CEO of Avidon
Health, marathon runner andfamily man currently navigating
the chaos of literallyrebuilding his home. In today's
episode, we're going to chatwith Clark to see how he
(00:26):
balances high performance,leadership, physical discipline
and intentional parenting, allwhile embracing life's
unpredictability, whether you'rean executive, a parent or an
athlete or all three. Thisconversation is for you or
anyone trying to do big thingswithout burning out. Hey, Clark,
how are you today? How's itgoing?
Clark Lageman (00:48):
Excited for today?
Tara Thurber (00:49):
Good. Me too. So listen from running a company to
running marathons to runningafter your kids. Talk to me,
What does balance really looklike for you right now? And how
do you define success across allareas of your life?
Clark Lageman (01:07):
Yeah, I mean, balance for me, is not a fixed
point, it's dynamic, right? Sothere's times when you feel
imbalance, or it's time to feelreally attuned. For me, it's
some weeks I'm crushing it as aCEO, other weeks, they're from
my daughter's swim lessons. Forme, one of the top priorities I
always focus in on and how Ireally think I succeed is to be
(01:30):
present in the moments that I'mthere for. So for me, it's
success is like I need to bealigned on the activity. So if
I'm focused on this conversationor conversation my team, I'm
going to be the best CEO Ipossibly could be. But at 6pm at
night, when I'm having familytime with my my kids, they don't
need me to the best CEO. Theyneed me to be the best father.
So I'm always making sure I'mI'm very present in the moment.
(01:51):
I'm at whether it be at workwith my family or even this
morning, early morning, I wentin and did something for myself.
I went out for a run early inthe morning. No distractions, no
phone. I just got after it. Soit's like, I'm just always
trying to fixate on that task athand, and how do I be the best
at that task at hand? I lovethat Clark. And let me just dial
it back a little bit. I wouldlove for you to just give the
(02:12):
audience a little bit about youand your background.
Yes. So I was an executive for ahealthcare company. I saw the
inefficiencies of healthcare. Ibitched and moan about the
efficiencies in healthcare for along time, and finally I was
like, You know what? No one'sdoing this. Let me stop
complaining and let me dosomething about it. So I put my
money where my mouth was, and Ibuilt a company. Went out and
(02:33):
raised some money from friendsand family. They believed in me.
It was great. Built a businessthat never really got over the
hurdle, but I learned a lot fromthat, and eventually built the
second company that has growninto what it is today, multiple
Time, Inc, 5000 award winner.
We've won a variety of differenthonors in our business. It's
really exciting. And we focus onbehavior change, helping people
create lasting, healthy habits.
(02:58):
We do that for organizations aswell. That's phenomenal. I think
that it's so needed right nowand and, you know, just to be
able to make those shifts and tolearn and make those changes,
everybody is in need. Socongrats on on building that.
And you know, the excitementthat comes behind it all as your
(03:18):
company grows excitement andchallenges. I mean, just like
being a father or being ahusband, it's just there's great
moments and it's very difficultmoments, and being able to be
again, how we start theconversation, balanced in those
moments and successful in thosemoments require you to be there
for those moments. And it's,it's not it's not easy. Every
(03:41):
day. It's difficult, but it'svery rewarding, though, well,
and I really like the pointwhere you, you say, being
present for those moments. Andyou know, this morning you, you
went for a run, no phone, nonothing. I mean that I feel is
huge, because even asindividuals, I mean, for myself,
(04:01):
I run with my phone and then I'mgetting dinged as I'm in the
middle of, like, I'm in Milefour, and I'm getting dinged so
I'm looking at my phone whileI'm running. So the fact that
you can just being present andkind of, I guess, individually
bucketing those present moments.
It seems like, Yeah, well, evenlike, I mean, first thing in the
(04:22):
morning, my alarm is set for545, I can't remember the last
time it went off, honestly,like, I get it before my alarm
goes off. I'm misconditioned.
Yeah, I don't go to my phoneother than to turn off the
alarm. That's the only time Itouch my phone. I go, what I
need to do? I already have myclothes prepared so I know what
I'm gonna wear. I don't have anyexcuses not to get moving. I go
and do all my activities. I comeback. I make my my nutritious
(04:46):
smoothie, anti inflammatorydrink, I drink every morning.
Shout out to mark common forthat great recipe. But I have
this. I'm dialed in. My kids areprobably by that point getting
up, or at least awake. I'mhanging out with them.
Tara Thurber (05:00):
Everyone gets shipped off, I grab my phone.
Nothing needs to happen beforeeight in the morning, like my
family's there, my units there.
I don't need to be on my phone,because you know what I'm gonna
do, exactly that scroll throughendlessly. I'm gonna go on
social. I'm gonna go reply backto emails that can be handled at
eight o'clock. And then again,I'm present for the moments that
are important to me right there.
Wow. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna dothat starting tomorrow, because
(05:25):
I tend to grab my phone, turn myalarm off, but then it's around
the entire morning as I'mgetting the kids ready, you
know, trying to get my workoutin, trying to do all of that.
So, all right, I'm gonna, I'mgonna lead by that intention for
sure? Um, yeah, I want to diveinto your top five strategies
(05:46):
for showing up as a strongleader, a present parent and a
grounded human, you know,especially when things can feel
unstable. Um, what has helpedyou to stay steady. Top
Clark Lageman (05:59):
priority for me is prioritization, like I call
it ruthless prioritization. SoI have some non negotiables.
There's some family time that'snon negotiables. Certainly when
I'm there for my team, it's anon negotiable. This meeting
today, we were talking. I setthe stage to be successful. My
phone is off. I made sure thehouse is quiet. Luckily, we
selected time. There's no kids,because if you came back at 230
(06:19):
might be a different story,right? Right? Story going crazy
in the background. But like, Iprioritize this meeting because
it was important to me. Sothat's one of the top things
people can do, because mosttimes we're half and half out.
So like, I have my phone here,I'm looking at something, emails
going off. Like, I'm distracted.
I'm giving you 80% of my bestself. Like, that's just not good
(06:40):
for you. It's not good for me.
If I give 100% in activity, Iexpect a person to give me back
100% and ultimately, willprivate great outcome from that
conversation. That's number one.
Second thing I do is just try tosweat on a daily basis. For me,
activity and competition isgreat in business. I love it,
but oftentimes in business, youdon't have a finish line, so
(07:00):
that's very difficult. It's verydifficult for like, performers
that like to achieve and like tobe acknowledged for their
achievements in a business, it'slike, you have to sell your
company before people like, Wow,he really blew it out, or she
blew it out. Like, it was great.
So for me, I just want to doracist competition. Get up in
the morning, get moving. It justclears out my head. And it's,
again, just, it's something forme, like it's selfish. On me,
I'm selfishly taking the timefor myself. That's that's number
(07:21):
two, going back to what wetalked about for is, is being
present, like, wherever my feethave landed, like I'm there,
like I'm there for thisconversation. I'm there for my
kids. I don't want to screwaround when it's something else,
because, again, I'm just goingto get 40% 60% effort across
these different these differentactivities, which is just not
good for anyone. Next thing Itend to do at a fault, my wife
(07:42):
will tell me, if you had her onhere, is I communicate clearly
and often. Is how I describe itclearly and abrasively, maybe
how my wife would describe it,but setting expectations being
real, communicating like myavailability when I'm not there,
what I like, what I don't like.
(08:03):
My mother used to joke, it'slike, they'd give us Christmas
presents and that, and then shewould walk back home, leave the
house with, like, five of them.
I'm like, I just, I just don'tlike it. I want to make sure,
you know, so next year probablyit's three. The following year
is probably two, and it's one.
And I try to set thatexpectation with my kids as
well. If you don't likesomething, that's fine. You just
need to communicate the rightway to share that information
with others. Because Tara, ifyou are giving me something, you
(08:26):
give it to me with all yourheart, and you want me to have
this great experience. If Idon't like it and I don't
communicate that to you, do Ihave to blame you, or I have to
blame myself. It's myself.
Because next time you're gonnado the same activity and say,
This is the same thing, Clarkreally liked it last time, I'm
like, five years later, Ifinally dropped the bomb on you
that I don't like doing right?
You're like, Dude,why do you tell me five years
earlier, I just wasted all thismoney, all this time, and
(08:48):
actually, like, I don't evenlike doing this crap, but I did
it for you. And you're like, wejust wasted all this crap, all
this time. Like, again, like,time is so important to me. If
I'm not prioritizing what Iwant, what I need with, who I
need it with, then I am known toblame, but myself. That's the
fourth one. Most people justthey want to, they want to make
everyone feel good. But the wayyou make someone really feel
(09:09):
good is by telling them thetruth and then giving them real
acknowledgement as to whatthey've done. If you had
something in your teeth, I wantto tell you, because you want to
know this information. Yes.
And lastly, like, you startedit, I mean, like, I'm rebuilding
a house is 11 month plusconstruction project. Running a
company got two small kids. Iwas driving them 45 minutes
(09:30):
every day to school. It's notideal, not fun. I tend to have
this mindset is that chaoscreates opportunities. So I'm
always okay with being in therinse, in the mix, because I
can't just have certainty allthe time. It's certainly not. As
a parent, you absolutely cannot.
You never know what to expectwhen your kids are around. So
being able to be comfortable inthat, in that situation, I
(09:52):
think, is also good the mindsetthat I'm gonna get a little
dirty, have a little dust on myfloors. Yeah, it just was
complained to the contract.
Unknown (10:00):
My guys. It's like, I got dust all over my plates
right now. We need this rightnow. But I'm okay with it. Did
it upset me? I'm like, I have tostop for it now. Like, let me go
clean the situation. Let me gomake it better for my kids when
they get back home today. Yeah,no, I love it. And it's, it's
finding different opportunities,right? Um, you know, chaos and
(10:20):
children, I think go hand inhand,
Tara Thurber (10:24):
whether we want them to go hand in hand or not.
And I think that as a parentmyself, that's one of the
biggest things that, not that Ihad to get used to, but I had to
embrace, was the fact of beingcomfortable in the
uncomfortable, being comfortablein the chaos, and embracing the
(10:46):
chaos,even as as as a mom, as you
know, a business owner, and justlife in general,
I definitely agree with thewhole aspect of chaos. I'm not
if, if my life was the samething every single day,
(11:06):
I would not be living to myfullest potential. Because, you
know, I think the craziness is,is, is part of the fun.
Clark Lageman (11:17):
Yeah, I think one of my favorite parenting
stories, it happened to me. So Ican say that this was a favorite
parenting story, and I tell it.
So we had my daughter. She's nowsix years old, and one of our
first pediatrician appointments,maybe it was her first. I don't
remember it was. It was veryearly on. And of course, you
know, you're there, you'renervous, you're you have all
your crappy you know, my wifehad the book bag gone with,
(11:38):
like, 30 things, and, like, allthis stuff. And we're prepared
for everything, multiple towels,diapers,
and so my daughter's like, youknow, a little uncomfortable
crying a little bit in thewaiting room. So I pick her up
out of her carrier, like holdingher, and I just had her, like,
on my lap, and, you know, shewas, she was wearing her diapers
and everything. I'm like, oh,you know she just peed. And the
(12:00):
way I knew she disappearedbecause my pants were soaked,
yeah, so the diaper wasn't onright or correctly, we didn't
know. It's like, pee all over.
So I remember, like, I'm goingin to see this pediatrician for
the first time, and I'm like, Mydaughter just peed on me, and
she literally didn't care. Shewas like, this is parenting,
dude. Like, pray over yourselfand just focused on my daughter.
I'm like, Whoa. Like, what anaha moment for me is that she
(12:23):
was used to seeing that andexperiencing it. I was so
concerned, I had to give ajustification. I'm like, Well,
this is just what it's going tobe like, man. Like you have to
get over yourself, and you haveto lower your guard, and you
have to accept that this is nowyour new reality. Luckily, I was
only peed on once, puked on manytimes. Was a one time deal, and
so my son came around, whichthere was other surprises. When
(12:46):
you have a when you have a boyversus a girl, it's a different
type of battle you're fighting,but it just, it kind of just
just that the small moments inyour personal life, you can tie
the Back to Business learningstoo. But just that's like, one
of those stories parentsprobably all go through like,
oh, yeah, wow. Let merecalibrate myself for a second
here and not think that theworld is ending because I got a
(13:07):
little tinkle on me, you know,right? It's not that important,
right? And, you know, I thinkback in the day as a first time
parent, you're you think aboutthat, you know, you bring that
stress out. But then it justnow, it's like, yeah, okay, it's
part of it's part of the plan,right? It's part of the day.
100% Yeah.
(13:29):
Um, so Clark, just kind ofdiving into Avedon health. I
know avid on health focuses onwell being and behavior change.
How do you apply that mission toyour own life. And how does your
physical training, like, likemarathon running, support your
mindset as a CEO and a dad?
Yeah. I mean, changing behavioris hard. Yeah, most people are
(13:54):
going to fail. I failed myself.
I fail. I still fail. So this isnot that I've solved it. I
failed because it's not adestination, it's a journey. So
it's a lot of steps you're goingto take along the process. So
our business is centered onhelping people break unhealthy
habits, so smoking, sleep,issues, poor nutrition, physical
(14:16):
inactivity, substance use. Andhow do we do that process? So
there's these cognitivebehavioral training principles
we apply. And a lot of thetimes, we develop courses, we
develop challenges, we developcontent. So all these these
learning modalities to help ourpeople correct these behaviors
or to change these behaviors. Sooftentimes I drink my own Kool
(14:37):
Aid, my team and I, so we test alot of these principles. We use
a lot of these content. We use alot of the content first to see
if it resonates. So I often gothrough similar struggles that
the people that are using ourproduct are going through, and I
try my best to remind myselfthat it's not I'm going to solve
it forever. It's I needconsistent training, consistent
(14:58):
structure. And oftentimes.
Consistent accountability to getto the goals that I have for
myself. So just like youstarted, you started the
conversation with, I'm trainingfor races and events, right? I
prioritize that because it'simportant to me. But I get up in
the morning I have a habit. Soas I started with, I turn off my
alarm, usually before it getsoff. My clothes already picked
out for me, so that's a habitstacking. So I don't need to
(15:20):
think about these things. I justgo and I just I set myself up
for success, because everythingis laid out for me, and I have
my goals set up already for theweek, so I know this week. I
know all the days I'm running,I'm new, all the days I'm
recovering, I know all theactivities I'm going to do. And
I'm also holding myselfaccountable, because I'm telling
people about this. So here's myroutine, here's what I plan on
doing, and here's all the peoplewho are going to hold me
(15:40):
accountable my social circle,that's going to say, did you
really do your main thismorning? Did you get out of your
mind? Hell yeah, I got out ofdid my run? Because I'm training
for this activity, and I wantyou to know that I may fall down
sometimes, but if you're thereto hold me accountable, I'm more
likely to push in thosedifficult times. So it's that
discipline and the patience isjust so incredibly important for
(16:00):
any type of goal setting, ratetype of activities you're trying
to achieve,
Tara Thurber (16:05):
that's really fantastic. Because, you know, I
know for myself, there's been alot of different habits that
have been broken, and I like theidea of having setting yourself
up with accountability, right?
And you know who,who do you have to help you hold
yourself accountable? And Ithink that that's really
(16:28):
important too for for any leaderthat's out there to make sure
that they've got people to holdthem accountable.
Clark Lageman (16:37):
And do you find, do you get your team? Do you get
your family involved, who arekind of your accountability
partners to help you find thatsuccess? Yeah, I mean, it's
dependent on the activity.
Sometimes it's my daughter thatholds me accountable, like being
a good dad. So you and I had aconversation recently while we
were out, and we talked about agoal that you might want to
pursue, and I made a mental noteof that, and damn sure, I'm
(16:57):
going to hold you accountable ifyou want me to, because
ultimately, you have to be opento have this conversation,
right? Otherwise, it just youhave this, this, this nuisance
that's pushing you for a goalthat's no longer important to
you, which is fine, like goalschange, like my goal today may
be different than my goal inthree years from now, but
certainly from a businessperspective. So a tangible
business step that we've takenin our company, we've introduced
(17:18):
OKRs, objectives and keyresults. We do this publicly, so
everyone on my team sees mygoals, my objectives that I'm
going to deliver on for thisquarter. I don't hit all them
every week. I check in the team.
Can review it on the dashboard,so it's very clear. It's very
transparent. I can also see whatthey're doing. So as an
executive, I can look down andsay, What are you doing, or more
(17:39):
as as a team, and I can say, Howcan I help you, and what are you
doing? So it's a very differentway that we kind of treat our
our business activities, andthen as a parent or as a father,
it's the same sort of thing.
It's like, I'm doing this goal,and maybe it's a social circle,
so I'm doing the race andtraining for right now, right?
And a lot of my friends, theyknow I'm doing it, but the
accountability partners aredifferent. They're people that
are doing more competition andathletics, because they kind of
(18:00):
get it. They're holding meaccountable the way that need to
be held accountable. And alsothey're doing their own goals
and their own objectives andtheir own training for their
races. I'm like, Well, that'spretty awesome. So like, it's
kind of like we're trying to goafter it together.
Tara Thurber (18:15):
I love that because, yes, I I have found one
that I want to do in Novemberand but I do find too even
though I've brought it to myfamily, I think I need to step
outside of that and find otheraccountability partners to push
(18:35):
me a little bit further.
Because, sure, I've got theunconditional love of, yeah,
Mom, that's great, you know, butthey don't, they get that. It's
great. And they'll see me inNovember, and they're like,
cool, we're gonna have a reallycool weekend, and we're gonna
watch you run that marathon.
They don't get that. I need tostart working towards that now.
Yeah, exactly. And I thinksomething so true to form of
(18:59):
your kids, your kids. I mean, IIt's like, I hold a mirror up to
myself every single day with mywith my two girls. And, you
know, one thing that I reallywant to start doing is
stretching at night more. And,you know, my my youngest came to
me the other day. I was workinglate and I was multi, multi
(19:21):
tasking all over the place,talking to her, finishing up
some emails. I had said that Iwas really far behind, but yet I
was trying to get dinner on thetable. And she was like, Mom, I
need you to stop for a second.
And I'm like, What do you mean?
And she had gone off to dosomething, and she's like, Just
come with me for a minute. So ofcourse, I'm like, okay, so what
(19:44):
is it? Right? I drop everything,which brings me upstairs to my
bedroom, and I'm like, What arewe doing? She opens the door,
and she had put down my yogamat, and she had grabbed my
phone and she went on to mypillow.
Ton app, and she found a fiveminute standing yoga class, and
she says, we're doing thistogether right now. It's
(20:07):
awesome. And I, I kind of, Idropped everything. I said, it's
five minutes. Let's do it. Itchanged the rest of my night.
Tears, yeah, tears from youreyes. Like, that's pretty
awesome. That's the first thingyou do. Like, I did great, and
then she wants to rip your faceoff 10 minutes later, by the
way, that was an incrediblemoment. Yeah, oh, it was such an
incredible moment. And I neededthat. I needed to see that. And
(20:31):
you know it, it came back to me,and I just looked at her, and I
hugged her afterwards, and Isaid, you just completely
changed the rest of the eveningfor us, it was almost like it
was a reset for me, and, youknow, little things like that.
So this morning, I said, cedar,I really want to start
stretching every single night.
Do you think you can hold meaccountable and do it with me?
(20:54):
And she's like, I got you. So Ifeel that, and I feel the
accountability and I need youknow, I think even for for
leaders that are out there, sureyou've got your team, but
leaders that are potentially onthe on the same path or on the
same levels too, I think areimportant to have accountability
(21:14):
partners, because founders andleaders, I feel that it could be
extremely isolating at timesand, and, you know, you need
that extra push from somebodyoutside of your bubble.
Absolutely amazing. It's alonely journey. Lonely journey.
Yeah, it definitely is. Itdefinitely is,
(21:38):
you know, coming back to familyand sacrifice, right? I think
there's also a belief that youhave to sacrifice family or
yourself to make itprofessionally. What would you
say to leaders struggling withguilt, burnout or feeling like
they're always behind in somepart of life?
Clark Lageman (22:01):
You're not behind. You're human. So
first off, like I find with withall this, it's guilt thrives in
comparison. So I recently wrotean article for Inc talking about
embracing the dad bod. And it'slike the dad bod. It's like
middle age. I got this dad bod.
I researched this topic. I mean,I'm in the behavior change
(22:23):
process. I work with hundreds of1000s of people around health
and wellness, helping them livetheir most optimal self. And I
thought of myself like I'vetrained for multiple Ironmans.
That's a 17 hour race. It's a2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike
race followed by a marathon. Youhave 17 hours to complete it. So
that's what I was doing for aperiod of time. And during those
(22:44):
like and I had no kids at thetime as well, it was I was
extreme trainer. I was doingeverything eating right, and I
never had the quintessential sixpack abs. I never had, like what
I see in these magazines or onthe TV shows or in the movies.
And I started realizing andreading is that what we are
being fed oftentimes, is acompletely unrealistic,
(23:08):
unattainable representation ofwhat we think perfect should be.
And then I studied the topic alittle more for this article,
and basically what I learnedwas, oftentimes like that. Dad
Bod performance isn't equated tothe visual representation of
what performance needs to looklike. So Tom Brady, arguably the
greatest quarterback of alltime, arguably, maybe with the
(23:28):
greatest NFL player of all time,multiple Super Bowl rings, every
piece, etc. Pete didn't have thechiseled abs like he had Dad Bod
and he just won. He was aperformer. So you need to define
your own success. If you'refeeling guilt, I felt there. If
(23:48):
you're feeling shame andembarrassment, I've been there.
I felt that you're not alone.
It's normal. But when you startto recalibrate yourself as to
what success needs to look like,I think that's what's going to
help anyone feel that they couldbe the best parent, the best
husband, the best partner, thebest executive. It's just about
what matters. And how do youdefine success in that, that
arena that you're playing in,right? And do you feel that it's
(24:11):
it's all personalized as well?
Because the way that I feelsuccess is going to be different
from the way you would feelsuccess, of course, and also
success is different each day,right? Like, I mean, if you're
going through transition in yourlife, you're going through
(24:31):
relationship changes, if you'regoing through construction in
your home, I am not going to beas successful as I can be with
my house being done. It's aphysical impossibility. I have
at least a portion of my brainturned off thinking about the
contractors, thinking about thework, or if my kids are sick, a
portion of my ear is alwaysattuned to is my daughter
crying. But yet, people expect100% performance every day. It's
(24:54):
just not realistic and practicalnecessarily. I can tethered
together multiple days like andI will have.
Ask myself, Is my pacesustainable, right? If it isn't
stable, let's go. Let's keepgetting after it. But it's not
step back. Do a recovery. Giveit back. Give it a 60% day. And
60% doesn't need be. Everythingacross the board goes 60% like
my relationship, it goes 60.
Parenting goes 60 executivebecause 60, maybe it's 80, 2040,
(25:15):
okay, now I'm into the range oflike, what's sustainable for
what my body can handle, what mymind can handle, and ultimately,
what I can do successfully formy team and for my loved ones.
That's fantastic. Clark, I feelthat by talking about it that
way, it also allows people tonot get down on themselves if
they're not as successful asthey're trying to be, or needing
(25:40):
to portray themselves to be, inallowing,
Tara Thurber (25:48):
giving yourself that sense of, Hey, it's okay,
right? It's, it's okay that tonot be playing at 150%
Clark Lageman (25:57):
five, seven days a week, because then you will
burn out, right and and that'swhen it could even be more
detrimental to your life,whether it's your personal life
or your professional life. Mostpeople don't. They never pick up
on that mentally, emotionally,you don't. It's it's harder, but
physically, it's easy. So likemy physical example, I had an
(26:19):
injury in October of last year,I tore my hamstring working out,
doing whatever I was doing, andI kind of, I didn't treat the
right way the first time, but Igot better, and I was then going
back to athletics andcompetition, and I was fine. I
wasn't. I had a little naggingbook wasn't too big of a deal.
Then I started saying, I need totake it ratchet up. So I need to
(26:39):
take it to the next level for anevent I'm preparing for. And
then I was like, I hit the hitthe threshold, and I was done,
and I had to go and take it backso far, back to where I was
months behind schedule because Ididn't treat it that moment. And
oftentimes you don't, you can'tever recognize that emotionally
or mentally. You usually like,oh, there was this one thing
(27:00):
that happened. It's like, it's acollection of things that
happen, but physically, youoftentimes can go back to that
one point that triggered allthese others inevitabilities
because you didn't address it.
It's easy to identify, butperformance and emotional kind
of fortitude, and it's just muchharder to identify that trigger
point that gets you there.
Awesome. Thank you. Thank you somuch for sharing that.
Tara Thurber (27:23):
What advice do you have for the next generation of
professionals who want to buildbig things without losing sight
of the little moments thatmatter most?
Clark Lageman (27:35):
The thing I wish it is much better at early on,
although I didn't have quite thesame responsibility to do today,
is being very protective of mycalendar. I would oftentimes,
which I do. Now, here's a linkbook a time that works for you,
but I was giving, like,basically everything, every time
I had, and I was like, justalways prioritizing someone
(27:55):
else's agenda and prioritiesover my own. So for any one
starting out, you need to,again, protect what's important
to you, which is your time. Youcan't get that back, whether it
be time for your family, timefor your business, that's number
one. Second thing I would sayis, during that process, you
(28:16):
need to choose your nose wisely.
So I say yes to a lot of things,because I just love experiences,
and you never know where theycan lead you. But if I said yes
to everything, I will never getback to what's important to me.
So as I told you before, I setmy goals for the week, I know
what I'm going to work on if Isaid yes to every obligation or
opportunity. So those are twothings, things I have to do,
things that maybe I want to do,I'll never get to the goal I set
(28:38):
myself back in January, so Ikind of say No, at the right
times, at the right moments, sothose two skills that you can
integrate into your dailyactivities right now would pay
you massive dividends in thefuture.
Tara Thurber (28:55):
And I think to coming back with the saying yes,
a lot also, in my mind, I'm alsohearing the being able to say, I
don't like things, or, yeah, youknow, it kind of goes hand in
hand, because a lot of timespeople are just going to say yes
to and do it, just to be nice,right? Or, or just to
(29:17):
get that added bonus, whereas,if you know, if somebody's
giving you a gift, and you keepsaying thank you and that you
love it, but really you'retaking it home and putting it in
a closet, it, it kind of goeshand in hand. And I feel, do you
feelpeople that are just starting
out, they're gonna, they'regoing to say, yes, a lot more
(29:40):
and forget about that aspect.
And therefore that's going to itcould be detrimental if they
forget about that aspect. Yeah.
I mean, it's distracting, soit's, you don't know it's so
entrepreneurship is so damn hardbecause you don't have someone
telling you exactly how do it.
Yeah.
Clark Lageman (30:00):
1000 people telling you how to do it, and
maybe all those examples arewrong, and there's 1001 is
actually the right example. Soit's much more difficult for you
to get invited out to somethingor to do an activity by someone.
You think that's more successfulthan you, because, again,
everyone has these socialproofing they're pushing out
their chest, like, look at myIG, look at my LinkedIn, person
(30:21):
doing so you don't really know.
Are they burning throughcapital? Do they have a massive
amount of debt? Are they firingtheir employees? Are they really
they have a poor family life athome? Their kids don't like
them? You don't know. So it's sohard in those situations to say,
Well, I'm just going to shut itdown and just focus on myself
for right now.
There's a great, greatperson I talked to many years
(30:43):
ago that said to me he had abusiness coach, and the business
coach was talking about how he'salways giving so he's always
pouring from his cup, pouringfrom his cup, pouring from his
cup, and his business was notsucceeding like he was just
meandering along like good guy,good to his community, but like,
it was just always like this.
(31:04):
And so his business coach to himsaid, Well, it's a porn from
your cup. Let's think about itdifferently. Why don't it's
important from your cup? Why youlet your cup spill over and let
everyone drink from the excess?
And it was like, wow. His eyesjust hip. He's like, Yes, I need
to perform. I need to do what'sbest for myself. And by by proxy
for that, I'm going to have allthis excess that's going to come
(31:25):
over my cup to give to all theseother people that are asking me
for and I saw him make thisnotable shift. He was less
active in some places, much moreactive in other places, and his
goals were starting to get hit.
And I'm very proud of the workhe's done, and that kind of
mindset of saying like it wasjust so simple, he was still
giving back. He was giving backin a different way, but it
(31:46):
helped him achieve the successthat he needed and he was
looking for, which was importantto him. It was about his goals
and his success. I love that,Clark and you and I had talked
about that a couple of monthsago, and that has stuck with me
so deeply, all all the way upuntil, you know, people will
say, Oh, well, I feel like I'mbeing selfish. By doing for
(32:08):
myself and giving to myself,I've switched it, and it's now
you're being self full. You haveto be self full so that you can
then take what you've got andgive the access. Let, let
whatever is pouring out to bewhat you're giving out to
others. Did we file that? Thattrademark cell phone? Because if
(32:28):
I'm gonna go look for it rightnow, just wanna make sure you
take care of that beforethis thing posts, you better get
on it right. Right.
Clark, this has been awesome. Iwant to just kind of, as we
start to wrap up ourconversation here, there's, I
(32:48):
think, two questions that are alittle bonus questions I'd love
to throw at you, if that's okay,yeah, all right. So I think
number one is, I'm trying topick from a couple that I'm
digging for. You know, I'm goingto say, what gets you out the
door for a run, even when you'retired and you're exhausted, or
(33:10):
have a morning where you justdon't want to get up in the
morning, what gets you out ofthe door? Oh, man, I'm
accountable to my goals, and I'maccountable to people. So I've
told a lot of people a goal Ihave, which is to run this 100
mile race. And I set myself upfor being very transparent on I
plan on doing this, and the onlyway I can do that is I have to
(33:31):
do the hard work when no one islooking so no one saw me this
morning, at 545 getting up andgetting out of bed, no one saw
me while it's still darkoutside, running, put my little
my best on that has thereflectors. It just work. But
yeah, they will see me when I domy event, or they will ask about
how my event went. They see theend product, but not the hard
work putting into it. But I haveto put the hard work in,
otherwise I can't give the endresult. Excellent. Excellent.
(33:54):
You, and you feel it in your guttoo. You've got those the you've
got them talking to you in theback of your head, right? Oh,
yeah, you don't let them down.
Let them down.
Excellent. And then what, whatis a a mantra or mindset that
keeps you moving forward in yourpersonal and your professional
life? Love this question. So oneof my first jobs out of college,
(34:17):
I got hired at ADP, so thepayroll company, yeah, to
basically, I was wearing a suitand tie. Knock on doors selling
payroll. It was such a toughgrind, so much, so hard, such
such a fun and also difficulttime at the same at the same
moment. And one of the quotes Ifound at the time is this quote
by Babe Ruth, at least it's atribute to him, and it says it's
(34:41):
hard to beat the person thatdoesn't give up. So I printed
this thing out, I put it up onmy board. So if I just outworked
you, I would probably win. So Ijust had that mindset about
everything. If I just gave fiveminutes more than you, I'd
probably be five minutes betterthan you. If I spent one day
after doing this activity, I'dprobably be better than you.
Because.
I was out working, so if I gaveup, if I stopped working, you
(35:04):
would likely beat me. And I justsaid, That's my mindset that
have for everything, physicalactivities, for performance in
business, for being a goodfather. Like I just if you give
up and you walk away from that,if you walk away from the
argument with a loved one, Ithink that's giving up in my the
way I view myself is giving up.
So agree. I will talk untilthree o'clock in the morning if
I have to, because it'sincredibly important that we
work through this together. Soyeah, it's hard to beat a person
(35:25):
that never gives up. Try to beatme if you want to, if I don't
give up, you can't, because I'mnever going to stop. I love
that. I think I need to printthat out and put that on my
board. I think it definitelyrings true. And thank you. Thank
you so much for sharing thiswith us.
Alright, so I would love just togo back really quickly to bring
(35:47):
our audience back to your topfive strategies, if you could
just go through them, onethrough five, and then we'll
wrap up our awesome call today.
Yep, start with prioritization,so making sure you are focused
on what matters the most. Foryou, second thing I talked about
is getting active every day. Forme, it's just a finish line that
I need. Whether you're justrunning a one mile, you're doing
(36:08):
10 push ups a day, you needsuccess. So if you're sweating,
you're getting moving, that's agreat way to be successful, in
my opinion. Be present where youare, so wherever you land. Be
grounded in whatever theactivity is, being a good
father, a good spouse, a goodexecutive. Next thing is, I talk
about how I communicate so verytransparently, transparently.
(36:29):
Can hurt you? Give me a gift.
You may you may get hurt withwhat you hear, but you're going
to know what really matters tome, and ultimately, together,
our relationship will be better.
So whether that be in businesspersonal life, I think it's just
so incredibly important. Andlastly, it's going to be chaos
in your world, whether you'rerunning a company or being a
parent or being a spouse. Youjust need to accept that and be
(36:53):
okay with that and just again,go back to these other skills of
like being the best version ofyourself in that moment can't
control everything. BeautifulClark, thank you so much for
joining us today. It was apleasure having you on.
Tara Thurber (37:11):
We are defined talent coming to you at top
five, make it a great day. You.
Hey everyone, welcome back. I'm Tara Thurber,
Founder and Director ofPartnerships here at define
talent. And joining me today isClark lageman, CEO of Avidon
Health, marathon runner andfamily man currently navigating
the chaos of literallyrebuilding his home. In today's
episode, we're going to chatwith Clark to see how he
(00:26):
balances high performance,leadership, physical discipline
and intentional parenting, allwhile embracing life's
unpredictability, whether you'rean executive, a parent or an
athlete or all three. Thisconversation is for you or
anyone trying to do big thingswithout burning out. Hey, Clark,
how are you today? How's itgoing?
Clark Lageman (00:48):
Excited for today?
Tara Thurber (00:49):
Good. Me too. So listen from running a company to
running marathons to runningafter your kids. Talk to me,
What does balance really looklike for you right now? And how
do you define success across allareas of your life?
Clark Lageman (01:07):
Yeah, I mean, balance for me, is not a fixed
point, it's dynamic, right? Sothere's times when you feel
imbalance, or it's time to feelreally attuned. For me, it's
some weeks I'm crushing it as aCEO, other weeks, they're from
my daughter's swim lessons. Forme, one of the top priorities I
always focus in on and how Ireally think I succeed is to be
(01:30):
present in the moments that I'mthere for. So for me, it's
success is like I need to bealigned on the activity. So if
I'm focused on this conversationor conversation my team, I'm
going to be the best CEO Ipossibly could be. But at 6pm at
night, when I'm having familytime with my my kids, they don't
need me to the best CEO. Theyneed me to be the best father.
So I'm always making sure I'mI'm very present in the moment.
(01:51):
I'm at whether it be at workwith my family or even this
morning, early morning, I wentin and did something for myself.
I went out for a run early inthe morning. No distractions, no
phone. I just got after it. Soit's like, I'm just always
trying to fixate on that task athand, and how do I be the best
at that task at hand? I lovethat Clark. And let me just dial
it back a little bit. I wouldlove for you to just give the
(02:12):
audience a little bit about youand your background.
Yes. So I was an executive for ahealthcare company. I saw the
inefficiencies of healthcare. Ibitched and moan about the
efficiencies in healthcare for along time, and finally I was
like, You know what? No one'sdoing this. Let me stop
complaining and let me dosomething about it. So I put my
money where my mouth was, and Ibuilt a company. Went out and
(02:33):
raised some money from friendsand family. They believed in me.
It was great. Built a businessthat never really got over the
hurdle, but I learned a lot fromthat, and eventually built the
second company that has growninto what it is today, multiple
Time, Inc, 5000 award winner.
We've won a variety of differenthonors in our business. It's
really exciting. And we focus onbehavior change, helping people
create lasting, healthy habits.
(02:58):
We do that for organizations aswell. That's phenomenal. I think
that it's so needed right nowand and, you know, just to be
able to make those shifts and tolearn and make those changes,
everybody is in need. Socongrats on on building that.
And you know, the excitementthat comes behind it all as your
(03:18):
company grows excitement andchallenges. I mean, just like
being a father or being ahusband, it's just there's great
moments and it's very difficultmoments, and being able to be
again, how we start theconversation, balanced in those
moments and successful in thosemoments require you to be there
for those moments. And it's,it's not it's not easy. Every
(03:41):
day. It's difficult, but it'svery rewarding, though, well,
and I really like the pointwhere you, you say, being
present for those moments. Andyou know, this morning you, you
went for a run, no phone, nonothing. I mean that I feel is
huge, because even asindividuals, I mean, for myself,
(04:01):
I run with my phone and then I'mgetting dinged as I'm in the
middle of, like, I'm in Milefour, and I'm getting dinged so
I'm looking at my phone whileI'm running. So the fact that
you can just being present andkind of, I guess, individually
bucketing those present moments.
It seems like, Yeah, well, evenlike, I mean, first thing in the
(04:22):
morning, my alarm is set for545, I can't remember the last
time it went off, honestly,like, I get it before my alarm
goes off. I'm misconditioned.
Yeah, I don't go to my phoneother than to turn off the
alarm. That's the only time Itouch my phone. I go, what I
need to do? I already have myclothes prepared so I know what
I'm gonna wear. I don't have anyexcuses not to get moving. I go
and do all my activities. I comeback. I make my my nutritious
(04:46):
smoothie, anti inflammatorydrink, I drink every morning.
Shout out to mark common forthat great recipe. But I have
this. I'm dialed in. My kids areprobably by that point getting
up, or at least awake. I'mhanging out with them.
Tara Thurber (05:00):
Everyone gets shipped off, I grab my phone.
Nothing needs to happen beforeeight in the morning, like my
family's there, my units there.
I don't need to be on my phone,because you know what I'm gonna
do, exactly that scroll throughendlessly. I'm gonna go on
social. I'm gonna go reply backto emails that can be handled at
eight o'clock. And then again,I'm present for the moments that
are important to me right there.
Wow. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna dothat starting tomorrow, because
(05:25):
I tend to grab my phone, turn myalarm off, but then it's around
the entire morning as I'mgetting the kids ready, you
know, trying to get my workoutin, trying to do all of that.
So, all right, I'm gonna, I'mgonna lead by that intention for
sure? Um, yeah, I want to diveinto your top five strategies
(05:46):
for showing up as a strongleader, a present parent and a
grounded human, you know,especially when things can feel
unstable. Um, what has helpedyou to stay steady. Top
Clark Lageman (05:59):
priority for me is prioritization, like I call
it ruthless prioritization. SoI have some non negotiables.
There's some family time that'snon negotiables. Certainly when
I'm there for my team, it's anon negotiable. This meeting
today, we were talking. I setthe stage to be successful. My
phone is off. I made sure thehouse is quiet. Luckily, we
selected time. There's no kids,because if you came back at 230
(06:19):
might be a different story,right? Right? Story going crazy
in the background. But like, Iprioritize this meeting because
it was important to me. Sothat's one of the top things
people can do, because mosttimes we're half and half out.
So like, I have my phone here,I'm looking at something, emails
going off. Like, I'm distracted.
I'm giving you 80% of my bestself. Like, that's just not good
(06:40):
for you. It's not good for me.
If I give 100% in activity, Iexpect a person to give me back
100% and ultimately, willprivate great outcome from that
conversation. That's number one.
Second thing I do is just try tosweat on a daily basis. For me,
activity and competition isgreat in business. I love it,
but oftentimes in business, youdon't have a finish line, so
(07:00):
that's very difficult. It's verydifficult for like, performers
that like to achieve and like tobe acknowledged for their
achievements in a business, it'slike, you have to sell your
company before people like, Wow,he really blew it out, or she
blew it out. Like, it was great.
So for me, I just want to doracist competition. Get up in
the morning, get moving. It justclears out my head. And it's,
again, just, it's something forme, like it's selfish. On me,
I'm selfishly taking the timefor myself. That's that's number
(07:21):
two, going back to what wetalked about for is, is being
present, like, wherever my feethave landed, like I'm there,
like I'm there for thisconversation. I'm there for my
kids. I don't want to screwaround when it's something else,
because, again, I'm just goingto get 40% 60% effort across
these different these differentactivities, which is just not
good for anyone. Next thing Itend to do at a fault, my wife
(07:42):
will tell me, if you had her onhere, is I communicate clearly
and often. Is how I describe itclearly and abrasively, maybe
how my wife would describe it,but setting expectations being
real, communicating like myavailability when I'm not there,
what I like, what I don't like.
(08:03):
My mother used to joke, it'slike, they'd give us Christmas
presents and that, and then shewould walk back home, leave the
house with, like, five of them.
I'm like, I just, I just don'tlike it. I want to make sure,
you know, so next year probablyit's three. The following year
is probably two, and it's one.
And I try to set thatexpectation with my kids as
well. If you don't likesomething, that's fine. You just
need to communicate the rightway to share that information
with others. Because Tara, ifyou are giving me something, you
(08:26):
give it to me with all yourheart, and you want me to have
this great experience. If Idon't like it and I don't
communicate that to you, do Ihave to blame you, or I have to
blame myself. It's myself.
Because next time you're gonnado the same activity and say,
This is the same thing, Clarkreally liked it last time, I'm
like, five years later, Ifinally dropped the bomb on you
that I don't like doing right?
You're like, Dude,why do you tell me five years
earlier, I just wasted all thismoney, all this time, and
(08:48):
actually, like, I don't evenlike doing this crap, but I did
it for you. And you're like, wejust wasted all this crap, all
this time. Like, again, like,time is so important to me. If
I'm not prioritizing what Iwant, what I need with, who I
need it with, then I am known toblame, but myself. That's the
fourth one. Most people justthey want to, they want to make
everyone feel good. But the wayyou make someone really feel
(09:09):
good is by telling them thetruth and then giving them real
acknowledgement as to whatthey've done. If you had
something in your teeth, I wantto tell you, because you want to
know this information. Yes.
And lastly, like, you startedit, I mean, like, I'm rebuilding
a house is 11 month plusconstruction project. Running a
company got two small kids. Iwas driving them 45 minutes
(09:30):
every day to school. It's notideal, not fun. I tend to have
this mindset is that chaoscreates opportunities. So I'm
always okay with being in therinse, in the mix, because I
can't just have certainty allthe time. It's certainly not. As
a parent, you absolutely cannot.
You never know what to expectwhen your kids are around. So
being able to be comfortable inthat, in that situation, I
(09:52):
think, is also good the mindsetthat I'm gonna get a little
dirty, have a little dust on myfloors. Yeah, it just was
complained to the contract.
Unknown (10:00):
My guys. It's like, I got dust all over my plates
right now. We need this rightnow. But I'm okay with it. Did
it upset me? I'm like, I have tostop for it now. Like, let me go
clean the situation. Let me gomake it better for my kids when
they get back home today. Yeah,no, I love it. And it's, it's
finding different opportunities,right? Um, you know, chaos and
(10:20):
children, I think go hand inhand,
Tara Thurber (10:24):
whether we want them to go hand in hand or not.
And I think that as a parentmyself, that's one of the
biggest things that, not that Ihad to get used to, but I had to
embrace, was the fact of beingcomfortable in the
uncomfortable, being comfortablein the chaos, and embracing the
(10:46):
chaos,even as as as a mom, as you
know, a business owner, and justlife in general,
I definitely agree with thewhole aspect of chaos. I'm not
if, if my life was the samething every single day,
(11:06):
I would not be living to myfullest potential. Because, you
know, I think the craziness is,is, is part of the fun.
Clark Lageman (11:17):
Yeah, I think one of my favorite parenting
stories, it happened to me. So Ican say that this was a favorite
parenting story, and I tell it.
So we had my daughter. She's nowsix years old, and one of our
first pediatrician appointments,maybe it was her first. I don't
remember it was. It was veryearly on. And of course, you
know, you're there, you'renervous, you're you have all
your crappy you know, my wifehad the book bag gone with,
(11:38):
like, 30 things, and, like, allthis stuff. And we're prepared
for everything, multiple towels,diapers,
and so my daughter's like, youknow, a little uncomfortable
crying a little bit in thewaiting room. So I pick her up
out of her carrier, like holdingher, and I just had her, like,
on my lap, and, you know, shewas, she was wearing her diapers
and everything. I'm like, oh,you know she just peed. And the
(12:00):
way I knew she disappearedbecause my pants were soaked,
yeah, so the diaper wasn't onright or correctly, we didn't
know. It's like, pee all over.
So I remember, like, I'm goingin to see this pediatrician for
the first time, and I'm like, Mydaughter just peed on me, and
she literally didn't care. Shewas like, this is parenting,
dude. Like, pray over yourselfand just focused on my daughter.
I'm like, Whoa. Like, what anaha moment for me is that she
(12:23):
was used to seeing that andexperiencing it. I was so
concerned, I had to give ajustification. I'm like, Well,
this is just what it's going tobe like, man. Like you have to
get over yourself, and you haveto lower your guard, and you
have to accept that this is nowyour new reality. Luckily, I was
only peed on once, puked on manytimes. Was a one time deal, and
so my son came around, whichthere was other surprises. When
(12:46):
you have a when you have a boyversus a girl, it's a different
type of battle you're fighting,but it just, it kind of just
just that the small moments inyour personal life, you can tie
the Back to Business learningstoo. But just that's like, one
of those stories parentsprobably all go through like,
oh, yeah, wow. Let merecalibrate myself for a second
here and not think that theworld is ending because I got a
(13:07):
little tinkle on me, you know,right? It's not that important,
right? And, you know, I thinkback in the day as a first time
parent, you're you think aboutthat, you know, you bring that
stress out. But then it justnow, it's like, yeah, okay, it's
part of it's part of the plan,right? It's part of the day.
100% Yeah.
(13:29):
Um, so Clark, just kind ofdiving into Avedon health. I
know avid on health focuses onwell being and behavior change.
How do you apply that mission toyour own life. And how does your
physical training, like, likemarathon running, support your
mindset as a CEO and a dad?
Yeah. I mean, changing behavioris hard. Yeah, most people are
(13:54):
going to fail. I failed myself.
I fail. I still fail. So this isnot that I've solved it. I
failed because it's not adestination, it's a journey. So
it's a lot of steps you're goingto take along the process. So
our business is centered onhelping people break unhealthy
habits, so smoking, sleep,issues, poor nutrition, physical
(14:16):
inactivity, substance use. Andhow do we do that process? So
there's these cognitivebehavioral training principles
we apply. And a lot of thetimes, we develop courses, we
develop challenges, we developcontent. So all these these
learning modalities to help ourpeople correct these behaviors
or to change these behaviors. Sooftentimes I drink my own Kool
(14:37):
Aid, my team and I, so we test alot of these principles. We use
a lot of these content. We use alot of the content first to see
if it resonates. So I often gothrough similar struggles that
the people that are using ourproduct are going through, and I
try my best to remind myselfthat it's not I'm going to solve
it forever. It's I needconsistent training, consistent
(14:58):
structure. And oftentimes.
Consistent accountability to getto the goals that I have for
myself. So just like youstarted, you started the
conversation with, I'm trainingfor races and events, right? I
prioritize that because it'simportant to me. But I get up in
the morning I have a habit. Soas I started with, I turn off my
alarm, usually before it getsoff. My clothes already picked
out for me, so that's a habitstacking. So I don't need to
(15:20):
think about these things. I justgo and I just I set myself up
for success, because everythingis laid out for me, and I have
my goals set up already for theweek, so I know this week. I
know all the days I'm running,I'm new, all the days I'm
recovering, I know all theactivities I'm going to do. And
I'm also holding myselfaccountable, because I'm telling
people about this. So here's myroutine, here's what I plan on
doing, and here's all the peoplewho are going to hold me
(15:40):
accountable my social circle,that's going to say, did you
really do your main thismorning? Did you get out of your
mind? Hell yeah, I got out ofdid my run? Because I'm training
for this activity, and I wantyou to know that I may fall down
sometimes, but if you're thereto hold me accountable, I'm more
likely to push in thosedifficult times. So it's that
discipline and the patience isjust so incredibly important for
(16:00):
any type of goal setting, ratetype of activities you're trying
to achieve,
Tara Thurber (16:05):
that's really fantastic. Because, you know, I
know for myself, there's been alot of different habits that
have been broken, and I like theidea of having setting yourself
up with accountability, right?
And you know who,who do you have to help you hold
yourself accountable? And Ithink that that's really
(16:28):
important too for for any leaderthat's out there to make sure
that they've got people to holdthem accountable.
Clark Lageman (16:37):
And do you find, do you get your team? Do you get
your family involved, who arekind of your accountability
partners to help you find thatsuccess? Yeah, I mean, it's
dependent on the activity.
Sometimes it's my daughter thatholds me accountable, like being
a good dad. So you and I had aconversation recently while we
were out, and we talked about agoal that you might want to
pursue, and I made a mental noteof that, and damn sure, I'm
(16:57):
going to hold you accountable ifyou want me to, because
ultimately, you have to be opento have this conversation,
right? Otherwise, it just youhave this, this, this nuisance
that's pushing you for a goalthat's no longer important to
you, which is fine, like goalschange, like my goal today may
be different than my goal inthree years from now, but
certainly from a businessperspective. So a tangible
business step that we've takenin our company, we've introduced
(17:18):
OKRs, objectives and keyresults. We do this publicly, so
everyone on my team sees mygoals, my objectives that I'm
going to deliver on for thisquarter. I don't hit all them
every week. I check in the team.
Can review it on the dashboard,so it's very clear. It's very
transparent. I can also see whatthey're doing. So as an
executive, I can look down andsay, What are you doing, or more
(17:39):
as as a team, and I can say, Howcan I help you, and what are you
doing? So it's a very differentway that we kind of treat our
our business activities, andthen as a parent or as a father,
it's the same sort of thing.
It's like, I'm doing this goal,and maybe it's a social circle,
so I'm doing the race andtraining for right now, right?
And a lot of my friends, theyknow I'm doing it, but the
accountability partners aredifferent. They're people that
are doing more competition andathletics, because they kind of
(18:00):
get it. They're holding meaccountable the way that need to
be held accountable. And alsothey're doing their own goals
and their own objectives andtheir own training for their
races. I'm like, Well, that'spretty awesome. So like, it's
kind of like we're trying to goafter it together.
Tara Thurber (18:15):
I love that because, yes, I I have found one
that I want to do in Novemberand but I do find too even
though I've brought it to myfamily, I think I need to step
outside of that and find otheraccountability partners to push
(18:35):
me a little bit further.
Because, sure, I've got theunconditional love of, yeah,
Mom, that's great, you know, butthey don't, they get that. It's
great. And they'll see me inNovember, and they're like,
cool, we're gonna have a reallycool weekend, and we're gonna
watch you run that marathon.
They don't get that. I need tostart working towards that now.
Yeah, exactly. And I thinksomething so true to form of
(18:59):
your kids, your kids. I mean, IIt's like, I hold a mirror up to
myself every single day with mywith my two girls. And, you
know, one thing that I reallywant to start doing is
stretching at night more. And,you know, my my youngest came to
me the other day. I was workinglate and I was multi, multi
(19:21):
tasking all over the place,talking to her, finishing up
some emails. I had said that Iwas really far behind, but yet I
was trying to get dinner on thetable. And she was like, Mom, I
need you to stop for a second.
And I'm like, What do you mean?
And she had gone off to dosomething, and she's like, Just
come with me for a minute. So ofcourse, I'm like, okay, so what
(19:44):
is it? Right? I drop everything,which brings me upstairs to my
bedroom, and I'm like, What arewe doing? She opens the door,
and she had put down my yogamat, and she had grabbed my
phone and she went on to mypillow.
Ton app, and she found a fiveminute standing yoga class, and
she says, we're doing thistogether right now. It's
(20:07):
awesome. And I, I kind of, Idropped everything. I said, it's
five minutes. Let's do it. Itchanged the rest of my night.
Tears, yeah, tears from youreyes. Like, that's pretty
awesome. That's the first thingyou do. Like, I did great, and
then she wants to rip your faceoff 10 minutes later, by the
way, that was an incrediblemoment. Yeah, oh, it was such an
incredible moment. And I neededthat. I needed to see that. And
(20:31):
you know it, it came back to me,and I just looked at her, and I
hugged her afterwards, and Isaid, you just completely
changed the rest of the eveningfor us, it was almost like it
was a reset for me, and, youknow, little things like that.
So this morning, I said, cedar,I really want to start
stretching every single night.
Do you think you can hold meaccountable and do it with me?
(20:54):
And she's like, I got you. So Ifeel that, and I feel the
accountability and I need youknow, I think even for for
leaders that are out there, sureyou've got your team, but
leaders that are potentially onthe on the same path or on the
same levels too, I think areimportant to have accountability
(21:14):
partners, because founders andleaders, I feel that it could be
extremely isolating at timesand, and, you know, you need
that extra push from somebodyoutside of your bubble.
Absolutely amazing. It's alonely journey. Lonely journey.
Yeah, it definitely is. Itdefinitely is,
(21:38):
you know, coming back to familyand sacrifice, right? I think
there's also a belief that youhave to sacrifice family or
yourself to make itprofessionally. What would you
say to leaders struggling withguilt, burnout or feeling like
they're always behind in somepart of life?
Clark Lageman (22:01):
You're not behind. You're human. So
first off, like I find with withall this, it's guilt thrives in
comparison. So I recently wrotean article for Inc talking about
embracing the dad bod. And it'slike the dad bod. It's like
middle age. I got this dad bod.
I researched this topic. I mean,I'm in the behavior change
(22:23):
process. I work with hundreds of1000s of people around health
and wellness, helping them livetheir most optimal self. And I
thought of myself like I'vetrained for multiple Ironmans.
That's a 17 hour race. It's a2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike
race followed by a marathon. Youhave 17 hours to complete it. So
that's what I was doing for aperiod of time. And during those
(22:44):
like and I had no kids at thetime as well, it was I was
extreme trainer. I was doingeverything eating right, and I
never had the quintessential sixpack abs. I never had, like what
I see in these magazines or onthe TV shows or in the movies.
And I started realizing andreading is that what we are
being fed oftentimes, is acompletely unrealistic,
(23:08):
unattainable representation ofwhat we think perfect should be.
And then I studied the topic alittle more for this article,
and basically what I learnedwas, oftentimes like that. Dad
Bod performance isn't equated tothe visual representation of
what performance needs to looklike. So Tom Brady, arguably the
greatest quarterback of alltime, arguably, maybe with the
(23:28):
greatest NFL player of all time,multiple Super Bowl rings, every
piece, etc. Pete didn't have thechiseled abs like he had Dad Bod
and he just won. He was aperformer. So you need to define
your own success. If you'refeeling guilt, I felt there. If
(23:48):
you're feeling shame andembarrassment, I've been there.
I felt that you're not alone.
It's normal. But when you startto recalibrate yourself as to
what success needs to look like,I think that's what's going to
help anyone feel that they couldbe the best parent, the best
husband, the best partner, thebest executive. It's just about
what matters. And how do youdefine success in that, that
arena that you're playing in,right? And do you feel that it's
(24:11):
it's all personalized as well?
Because the way that I feelsuccess is going to be different
from the way you would feelsuccess, of course, and also
success is different each day,right? Like, I mean, if you're
going through transition in yourlife, you're going through
(24:31):
relationship changes, if you'regoing through construction in
your home, I am not going to beas successful as I can be with
my house being done. It's aphysical impossibility. I have
at least a portion of my brainturned off thinking about the
contractors, thinking about thework, or if my kids are sick, a
portion of my ear is alwaysattuned to is my daughter
crying. But yet, people expect100% performance every day. It's
(24:54):
just not realistic and practicalnecessarily. I can tethered
together multiple days like andI will have.
Ask myself, Is my pacesustainable, right? If it isn't
stable, let's go. Let's keepgetting after it. But it's not
step back. Do a recovery. Giveit back. Give it a 60% day. And
60% doesn't need be. Everythingacross the board goes 60% like
my relationship, it goes 60.
Parenting goes 60 executivebecause 60, maybe it's 80, 2040,
(25:15):
okay, now I'm into the range oflike, what's sustainable for
what my body can handle, what mymind can handle, and ultimately,
what I can do successfully formy team and for my loved ones.
That's fantastic. Clark, I feelthat by talking about it that
way, it also allows people tonot get down on themselves if
they're not as successful asthey're trying to be, or needing
(25:40):
to portray themselves to be, inallowing,
Tara Thurber (25:48):
giving yourself that sense of, Hey, it's okay,
right? It's, it's okay that tonot be playing at 150%
Clark Lageman (25:57):
five, seven days a week, because then you will
burn out, right and and that'swhen it could even be more
detrimental to your life,whether it's your personal life
or your professional life. Mostpeople don't. They never pick up
on that mentally, emotionally,you don't. It's it's harder, but
physically, it's easy. So likemy physical example, I had an
(26:19):
injury in October of last year,I tore my hamstring working out,
doing whatever I was doing, andI kind of, I didn't treat the
right way the first time, but Igot better, and I was then going
back to athletics andcompetition, and I was fine. I
wasn't. I had a little naggingbook wasn't too big of a deal.
Then I started saying, I need totake it ratchet up. So I need to
(26:39):
take it to the next level for anevent I'm preparing for. And
then I was like, I hit the hitthe threshold, and I was done,
and I had to go and take it backso far, back to where I was
months behind schedule because Ididn't treat it that moment. And
oftentimes you don't, you can'tever recognize that emotionally
or mentally. You usually like,oh, there was this one thing
(27:00):
that happened. It's like, it's acollection of things that
happen, but physically, youoftentimes can go back to that
one point that triggered allthese others inevitabilities
because you didn't address it.
It's easy to identify, butperformance and emotional kind
of fortitude, and it's just muchharder to identify that trigger
point that gets you there.
Awesome. Thank you. Thank you somuch for sharing that.
Tara Thurber (27:23):
What advice do you have for the next generation of
professionals who want to buildbig things without losing sight
of the little moments thatmatter most?
Clark Lageman (27:35):
The thing I wish it is much better at early on,
although I didn't have quite thesame responsibility to do today,
is being very protective of mycalendar. I would oftentimes,
which I do. Now, here's a linkbook a time that works for you,
but I was giving, like,basically everything, every time
I had, and I was like, justalways prioritizing someone
(27:55):
else's agenda and prioritiesover my own. So for any one
starting out, you need to,again, protect what's important
to you, which is your time. Youcan't get that back, whether it
be time for your family, timefor your business, that's number
one. Second thing I would sayis, during that process, you
(28:16):
need to choose your nose wisely.
So I say yes to a lot of things,because I just love experiences,
and you never know where theycan lead you. But if I said yes
to everything, I will never getback to what's important to me.
So as I told you before, I setmy goals for the week, I know
what I'm going to work on if Isaid yes to every obligation or
opportunity. So those are twothings, things I have to do,
things that maybe I want to do,I'll never get to the goal I set
(28:38):
myself back in January, so Ikind of say No, at the right
times, at the right moments, sothose two skills that you can
integrate into your dailyactivities right now would pay
you massive dividends in thefuture.
Tara Thurber (28:55):
And I think to coming back with the saying yes,
a lot also, in my mind, I'm alsohearing the being able to say, I
don't like things, or, yeah, youknow, it kind of goes hand in
hand, because a lot of timespeople are just going to say yes
to and do it, just to be nice,right? Or, or just to
(29:17):
get that added bonus, whereas,if you know, if somebody's
giving you a gift, and you keepsaying thank you and that you
love it, but really you'retaking it home and putting it in
a closet, it, it kind of goeshand in hand. And I feel, do you
feelpeople that are just starting
out, they're gonna, they'regoing to say, yes, a lot more
(29:40):
and forget about that aspect.
And therefore that's going to itcould be detrimental if they
forget about that aspect. Yeah.
I mean, it's distracting, soit's, you don't know it's so
entrepreneurship is so damn hardbecause you don't have someone
telling you exactly how do it.
Yeah.
Clark Lageman (30:00):
1000 people telling you how to do it, and
maybe all those examples arewrong, and there's 1001 is
actually the right example. Soit's much more difficult for you
to get invited out to somethingor to do an activity by someone.
You think that's more successfulthan you, because, again,
everyone has these socialproofing they're pushing out
their chest, like, look at myIG, look at my LinkedIn, person
(30:21):
doing so you don't really know.
Are they burning throughcapital? Do they have a massive
amount of debt? Are they firingtheir employees? Are they really
they have a poor family life athome? Their kids don't like
them? You don't know. So it's sohard in those situations to say,
Well, I'm just going to shut itdown and just focus on myself
for right now.
There's a great, greatperson I talked to many years
(30:43):
ago that said to me he had abusiness coach, and the business
coach was talking about how he'salways giving so he's always
pouring from his cup, pouringfrom his cup, pouring from his
cup, and his business was notsucceeding like he was just
meandering along like good guy,good to his community, but like,
it was just always like this.
(31:04):
And so his business coach to himsaid, Well, it's a porn from
your cup. Let's think about itdifferently. Why don't it's
important from your cup? Why youlet your cup spill over and let
everyone drink from the excess?
And it was like, wow. His eyesjust hip. He's like, Yes, I need
to perform. I need to do what'sbest for myself. And by by proxy
for that, I'm going to have allthis excess that's going to come
(31:25):
over my cup to give to all theseother people that are asking me
for and I saw him make thisnotable shift. He was less
active in some places, much moreactive in other places, and his
goals were starting to get hit.
And I'm very proud of the workhe's done, and that kind of
mindset of saying like it wasjust so simple, he was still
giving back. He was giving backin a different way, but it
(31:46):
helped him achieve the successthat he needed and he was
looking for, which was importantto him. It was about his goals
and his success. I love that,Clark and you and I had talked
about that a couple of monthsago, and that has stuck with me
so deeply, all all the way upuntil, you know, people will
say, Oh, well, I feel like I'mbeing selfish. By doing for
(32:08):
myself and giving to myself,I've switched it, and it's now
you're being self full. You haveto be self full so that you can
then take what you've got andgive the access. Let, let
whatever is pouring out to bewhat you're giving out to
others. Did we file that? Thattrademark cell phone? Because if
(32:28):
I'm gonna go look for it rightnow, just wanna make sure you
take care of that beforethis thing posts, you better get
on it right. Right.
Clark, this has been awesome. Iwant to just kind of, as we
start to wrap up ourconversation here, there's, I
(32:48):
think, two questions that are alittle bonus questions I'd love
to throw at you, if that's okay,yeah, all right. So I think
number one is, I'm trying topick from a couple that I'm
digging for. You know, I'm goingto say, what gets you out the
door for a run, even when you'retired and you're exhausted, or
(33:10):
have a morning where you justdon't want to get up in the
morning, what gets you out ofthe door? Oh, man, I'm
accountable to my goals, and I'maccountable to people. So I've
told a lot of people a goal Ihave, which is to run this 100
mile race. And I set myself upfor being very transparent on I
plan on doing this, and the onlyway I can do that is I have to
(33:31):
do the hard work when no one islooking so no one saw me this
morning, at 545 getting up andgetting out of bed, no one saw
me while it's still darkoutside, running, put my little
my best on that has thereflectors. It just work. But
yeah, they will see me when I domy event, or they will ask about
how my event went. They see theend product, but not the hard
work putting into it. But I haveto put the hard work in,
otherwise I can't give the endresult. Excellent. Excellent.
(33:54):
You, and you feel it in your guttoo. You've got those the you've
got them talking to you in theback of your head, right? Oh,
yeah, you don't let them down.
Let them down.
Excellent. And then what, whatis a a mantra or mindset that
keeps you moving forward in yourpersonal and your professional
life? Love this question. So oneof my first jobs out of college,
(34:17):
I got hired at ADP, so thepayroll company, yeah, to
basically, I was wearing a suitand tie. Knock on doors selling
payroll. It was such a toughgrind, so much, so hard, such
such a fun and also difficulttime at the same at the same
moment. And one of the quotes Ifound at the time is this quote
by Babe Ruth, at least it's atribute to him, and it says it's
(34:41):
hard to beat the person thatdoesn't give up. So I printed
this thing out, I put it up onmy board. So if I just outworked
you, I would probably win. So Ijust had that mindset about
everything. If I just gave fiveminutes more than you, I'd
probably be five minutes betterthan you. If I spent one day
after doing this activity, I'dprobably be better than you.
Because.
I was out working, so if I gaveup, if I stopped working, you
(35:04):
would likely beat me. And I justsaid, That's my mindset that
have for everything, physicalactivities, for performance in
business, for being a goodfather. Like I just if you give
up and you walk away from that,if you walk away from the
argument with a loved one, Ithink that's giving up in my the
way I view myself is giving up.
So agree. I will talk untilthree o'clock in the morning if
I have to, because it'sincredibly important that we
work through this together. Soyeah, it's hard to beat a person
(35:25):
that never gives up. Try to beatme if you want to, if I don't
give up, you can't, because I'mnever going to stop. I love
that. I think I need to printthat out and put that on my
board. I think it definitelyrings true. And thank you. Thank
you so much for sharing thiswith us.
Alright, so I would love just togo back really quickly to bring
(35:47):
our audience back to your topfive strategies, if you could
just go through them, onethrough five, and then we'll
wrap up our awesome call today.
Yep, start with prioritization,so making sure you are focused
on what matters the most. Foryou, second thing I talked about
is getting active every day. Forme, it's just a finish line that
I need. Whether you're justrunning a one mile, you're doing
(36:08):
10 push ups a day, you needsuccess. So if you're sweating,
you're getting moving, that's agreat way to be successful, in
my opinion. Be present where youare, so wherever you land. Be
grounded in whatever theactivity is, being a good
father, a good spouse, a goodexecutive. Next thing is, I talk
about how I communicate so verytransparently, transparently.
(36:29):
Can hurt you? Give me a gift.
You may you may get hurt withwhat you hear, but you're going
to know what really matters tome, and ultimately, together,
our relationship will be better.
So whether that be in businesspersonal life, I think it's just
so incredibly important. Andlastly, it's going to be chaos
in your world, whether you'rerunning a company or being a
parent or being a spouse. Youjust need to accept that and be
(36:53):
okay with that and just again,go back to these other skills of
like being the best version ofyourself in that moment can't
control everything. BeautifulClark, thank you so much for
joining us today. It was apleasure having you on.
Tara Thurber (37:11):
We are defined talent coming to you at top
five, make it a great day. You.
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