Top5 Ways to Put the Human Back into Human Resources

Tara Thurber and Mark Mears discuss the importance of humanizing HR and leading with love in the workplace. Mark shares his journey from law school to marketing communications, emphasizing the higher power of fours and the "love" model for leadership: Listen, Observe, Value, and Empower. He highlights the need for purposeful growth, engagement, and fostering a sense of belonging. Mark's book, "The Purposeful Growth Revolution," advocates for a transformational leadership style that prioritizes human connection and community. He also introduces the concept of curiosity as a fifth essential element for effective leadership.

Episode Transcript

Tara Thurber (00:00):
Hey everyone, welcome back to Top5 brought to
you by DefinedTalent. We are aresults driven partnership
service, working with clients toconnect them with quality
talent, as well as work, workingto make an impact within the HR
and recruiting industry. We talkstraight about today's
professional world with realworld professionals, experts in

(00:21):
recruitment, job seekers andbusiness owners alike, have a
question for us. Send it in, andyou might spur our next
conversation. I'm Tara Thurber,Founder and Director of
Partnerships here at definetalent. And joining me today is
Mark Mears. Mark serves as afounder and chief growth officer
for leaf growth ventures LLC, aconsulting firm inspiring

(00:45):
individuals, teams andorganizations to find purpose in
fulfilling their true growthpotential while making a
positive, lasting difference inthe world. Hey, Mark, how are
you today?

Mark Mears (00:57):
I'm great. Tara, how are you doing?

Tara Thurber (00:59):
I'm doing very well. I'm so excited that you're
here with us today, and I'mreally excited to just dive in.
For starters, why don't youintroduce yourself a little bit
and give our audience a littlebit about your background?

Mark Mears (01:14):
Thanks, Tara. I really appreciate you having me
on today, and it's been so fungetting to know you and leading
up to this recording. So I'mreally looking forward to this
discussion today. I'm MarkMears, and I live in Kansas City
now, but I have lived in Chicagotwice, Dallas, twice Atlanta,
Los Angeles, Austin, Texas andnow Kansas City. I was born and

(01:39):
raised in Kansas, so it's kindof a bit of a coming home for
me. I went to University ofKansas undergrad and
Northwestern for grad school,and it is really where my career
took shape. I wanted to be alawyer, and so when I was going
to undergrad, you can't major inpre law. And so I asked around

(02:01):
and said, Well, what curriculumwould provide me with the best
kind of foundation for beingsuccessful in law school and as
a liar? And people said, well,you're going to do a lot of
reading, a ton of reading,you're going to do a lot of
writing, you're going to do alot of research, right? Do you
know critical thinking, and youknow a lot of presentations. And

(02:24):
I said, Great. So whatcurriculum would prepare me for
that? And they said, Well, haveyou thought about the school of
journalism and masscommunications? KU has one of
the top schools in the country.
You're going to do all thosethings. And so I got in, and I
really enjoyed more on themarketing communications side
than on the kind of news andeditorial and reporting side,
right? That was of interest tome, but not as much. And so I

(02:47):
had a professor, Dr TimBankston, who, unfortunately,
just passed away this pastspring, but he was so
influential in my life, and hetook me aside and said, Hey, are
you sure you want to be alawyer? I think you've got a lot
of talent in marketingcommunications. And I said, Oh,
no, no, I'm going to be alawyer. So but thank you. I

(03:08):
appreciate it. I was gettinggood grades. I was, you know,
enjoying what I was doing. Andso then I started asking around.
I had some fraternity brothersthat were in law school. I had
contacts with people who wererecently out, and I had people
that I reached out to who hadtheir name on the letterhead.
Wow. Nobody was having any fun.

(03:31):
Nobody was encouraging me. AndI'm like, Well, I go back and
set up another meeting with DrBankston. And I said, Well, tell
me more about this grad school.
And he said, you know,Northwestern has one of the top
programs in the country. I thinkyou should apply there. And so I
did. I applied there Universityof Texas and Illinois, both at
outstanding programs as well,but Northwestern was a cut

(03:55):
above. And I went there and Iwas able to learn at the feet of
the master, another professor,Dr Don Schultz, who came up with
the concept of integratedmarketing communication, or what
is formerly now known as IMC,with curriculum. IMC curriculum
in universities and colleges allover the country, and that then

(04:19):
became the foundation for mycareer path that was in
marketing, communications andexecutive management. So I
worked at Pizza Hut when it wasowned by PepsiCo, with another
wonderful mentor we'll talkabout. I was on the agency side
at bozell and Leo Burnett,working on McDonald's business

(04:40):
at DDB, heading up the Frito Laybusiness back on the marketing
side at JC Penney UniversalStudios Hollywood, it was head
of marketing and sales, and thenChief Marketing Officer for the
Cheesecake Factory, amongothers. So it has been 36 seven
year. Kind of rye. COVID thatnow has culminated in me writing

(05:00):
this book, which we'll talkabout and called the purposeful
growth revolution for ways togrow from leader to legacy
builder. And so this now is kindof my second act, as I look to
pay it backward and help othersalong their growth journey. And
why I call it pay it backward.

(05:23):
People say, Well, you're incommunications markets pay it
forward like no, because I'm incommunications, I look at it
differently. I look at it aspaying it backward. Because when
I go to Starbucks, not only am Ia huge growth junkie, I love
growth in all of its forms, andI love learning about it, and I
love teaching on it, but I'malso a coffee junkie. So when I

(05:45):
go to Starbucks and through thedrive through, I'll pay for the
car behind me. I physicallycan't pay for the car in front
of me because it's already gone,so I'm paying it backward to the
car behind me. And when I get tothe window, I'll just tell the
barista. You know, I want to payfor the car behind me, but can
you do me a favor? Just tellthem, God bless you. Your debt

(06:06):
has been paid, and I'll driveaway. I don't know them. They
don't know me, but I gottabelieve Tara, in that moment,
they feel like they matter tosomebody else. Yeah, and there
is the law of reciprocity thatstates when someone does
something nice to you, you feela deep seated urge to do

(06:29):
something nice for somebodyelse. So imagine now that chain
reaction that can occur, and I'mtold does occur, as cars pay for
the cars behind them and behindthem and behind them. So as I'm
driving away, I'm saying asilent prayer for that person
again. I don't know them, Idon't know what they're going
through that day, but I'm justtrying to ask that they get what

(06:52):
they need in that moment. Andfor me, that is, is a great
metaphor for why I chose towrite this book and capture not
only my experiences, butobservations of those I admire,
research that supports mythesis, as well as subject
matter experts that can godeeper than me. So it's kind of

(07:14):
a curated reading experiencedesigned to almost be as if I
were mentoring a young MarkMears earlier in my career, what
would I tell him based on what Iknow now? What if I knew that
then? So by paying it backward,I'm hopeful that I'm giving

(07:35):
individuals and teams andorganizations opportunities to
learn about the power of purposein not only their work and life,
but as it relates to thecommunity that they serve.
Because I believe we have fourstakeholders in any business.
There are your team members. Idon't like employees, because I
believe words matter. There areyour guests from the hospitality

(08:00):
business, I prefer that versuscustomers, but you may have
customers and clients if you'rein B to B, right, right? Your
business partners, which isanybody in your business
ecosystem. It doesn't mean onlyshareholders or investors. It
means it could be your supplierpartners, manufacturers,
distributors, agency partners,but anybody that helps your

(08:21):
business achieve its objectives,and I treat them as partners,
and that's why I emphasize theword partners, because that's an
important word. They're notvendors. They have a stake in
the outcome, just like you andthen your communities. And so
now serving as a senior leadernetwork member for conscious
capitalism, Incorporated, whichis a global organization whose

(08:43):
mission aligns very closely withmine, and that is elevating
humanity through business. Andso that's really what drives me
today, and what I'm working onnow is the second book, which
we'll talk about. But this thepurposeful growth revolution, as
I'm leading this revolution tohelp change the paradigm of

(09:07):
command and control managementto a more humanistic, relational
leadership style. Young peopletoday, as you well know Tara,
they don't want to be managedand required. They want to be
led and inspired Absolutely

Tara Thurber (09:22):
I just got goosebumps from that absolutely
mark.

Mark Mears (09:27):
So that's what I'm up to now. And, you know,
looking forward to unpackingwhatever you want to unpack as
we move forward in ourconversation,

Tara Thurber (09:37):
perfect. I love everything about this. And I
have to say, you know our firstconversation, you talked about
paying it backward. And I havefrom that conversation, I have
shared that conversation withprobably 20 people so far, and
when I say, when I talk aboutthe act of paying it backward

(09:58):
versus paying it forward. Soit's like, everybody's eyes lit
up, and they light up andthey're like, Oh, that makes so
much more sense. And what animpact that can really make so
very excited. And your book,what, which? What we're going to
get into the purposeful growthrevolution, four ways to grow
from leader to legacy builder. Istarted it myself, and I'm

(10:22):
really excited to kind of peelthe layers of the onion back.
You know, mark the book talksabout the higher power of fours.
Talk to me a little bit. Whatdoes what does this mean? Yeah,

Mark Mears (10:35):
well, the actual epiphany for writing this book
happened February 21 2013 and atthis time, I was the president
of a half a billion dollarcasual dining chain based in
Orange County, California, andwe were owned by a publicly

(10:56):
traded entity that had a foodproducts division and another
restaurant division. I wasrecruited there from the
Cheesecake Factory where I wassenior vice president and chief
marketing officer to becomepresident and chief concept
officer to turn the brand aroundfrom double digit negative in
sales and research, and put anew and contemporary brand

(11:20):
positioning out there that wouldattract the kind of clientele
that we really wanted toattract, and then create a
concept that could earn theright to capital as we would
grow. We had 145 restaurants in24 states, and, like I said, a
half a billion dollarenterprises, not a small
endeavor, right? So I built ateam and established a vision,

(11:44):
and we made it happen. Withintwo years, we had turned the
brand around from double digitnegative in sales, we put an
exciting, contemporary,refreshing, new brand
positioning out there thatincluded a new menu and new
design, new decor, as well as anew concept that included an

(12:05):
area within, kind of the seatingarea, the foyer that provided
kind of like coffee and bakedgoods and other things, because
We were a breakfast, brunch andlunch heavy concept, but then
also put in a full bar and awonderful dinner menu. So we

(12:27):
were able now to use everysquare foot of the facility
without enlarging it. We wereable to generate traffic and
sales every hour of the day,yeah, and so now we tested this
concept and blew away our proforma return on invested
capital. And instead of givingus the capital we deserve that

(12:51):
they promised when theyrecruited me and I recruited my
team with the same promise, theboard has decided to move in a
different direction. We're goingto put the brand up for sale.
Essentially, you guys haveturned this around quicker than
we thought, and why don't westrike while the iron is hot and
so but don't worry, you're goingto lead the sale process. But

(13:14):
you can't tell anybody for awhile, right? Perfect. So here I
am still leading thisturnaround, and if anyone knows
about Southern California, youknow Orange County is southwest
of the city, right? We lived upin Valencia, which is north and
east of the city, about two hourto 15 two hour and 30 minute
drive, right? On a good day, Icouldn't drive back and forth

(13:36):
each way, and so I would afterdinner and putting the kids to
bed on Sunday night, I woulddrive to a hotel that was right
across the street from JohnWayne Airport and shout out
Hilton and work long day,Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and
Thursday, because our officesright across the street then

(13:58):
after rush hour had somewhatabated, which it never really
does in LA but, but before roadconstruction starts, which is
just as bad, because they doreal construction at night to
get ready for the next morning,etc, etc, I would then be home
Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
That's when I wasn't in Ohio,where the parent company was
based, in board meetings andquarterly earnings calls and all

(14:21):
the the stuff, right, right? Ortraveling to one of the 145
restaurants in 24 states, it wasgoing to be this noble turn
around for the ages that all ofus were thinking was going to be
career making. Right? We haddone everything we were asked to
do, we succeeded beyond anyone'swildest expectations, only to be

(14:43):
told we're going to sell thebrand. So we go through the
process, and at some point, I'mable to tell my executive team
only because they had to bethere for the presentations,
right? And we got a lot of tirekickers and private equity firms
who. Were, you know, we didn'twant to sell to if we didn't
have to, because we know oftenwhat their goals are, and

(15:05):
they're not congruent withbuilding brands. They're more
about kind of squeezing theprofitability and then selling
it 457, years down the road,making a profit for their
investors. Well, that's not whyI got into what I was doing, and
so we found who we thought wasthe perfect parent, a strategic
play that had restaurantconcepts and had manufacturing

(15:26):
facilities where we could getsome of our products from. And
we thought, This is great. Andthey said all the right things.
And we had this wonderfulcourtship. Well, the deal closed
on a Friday. We're drinkingchampagne, celebrating over the
weekend. Monday morning, ateight o'clock, I'm scheduled to
have a meeting with the new CEO,and we're going to plot our new

(15:47):
future together right at 805.
I'm out the door. We've decidedto move in a different
direction. I'm like, what overthe weekend? So anyway, I pack
up what I can in five minutes,and I drive home, and I call my
wife at the time say, well, sothat just happened. Well, after

(16:08):
a fitful night of sleep, I getup early the next morning and I
take the dog out back. Andagain, this is late February,
and not where you live or whereI live, but in Southern
California, that's about thetime the first signs of spring
start to emerge. So I take thedog out back and Tara, as God is
my witness, as the sun wascoming up over this wall in our

(16:29):
backyard, we had a fig tree thatwas barren from the five or six
weeks of winter that we do get,and there on the end of one
branch was this tiny, littlegreen sprig of a leaf just
starting to bud. In that moment,I got this epiphany that a leaf
is a symbol of growth andrebirth. I took the dog in, and
I went to my office, startbanging out of treatment, and

(16:51):
then in my mind's eye got tothinking, Wait a minute, I had
been taught to lead with therule of threes. And if you focus
on three things, it's a thing.
There are people that say, youknow, TED Talk, three things,
react, play, everything you knowhas to be three. I'm like, okay,
my Three Things were leadership,engagement and accountability.
I'd say in all of my meetings,emails, we had voicemails that

(17:17):
we could blast out at the time,I used it as recognition and
reward, and I'd say Tara isdoing a wonderful job of leading
her team and look at theresults. Or Tara is engaging her
team on a deeper level and lookwhat they're accomplishing. Or
Tara is holding her teamaccountable for results and look
how they're doing so leadership,engagement and accountability.
It wasn't till that morningafter that I realized something

(17:39):
was missing with that model. Wewere burning the candle at both
ends. We were all sacrificing inour way. And we were chasing
numbers to chase numbers becausewe wanted to be part of this
noble turnaround for the ages.
And it was at that point that Ithought this is not very

(18:02):
fulfilling. We just, all of usgot the rug pulled out from
under us. They ended up movingthe office from Orange County to
their US headquarters in Dallassix months later. So everything
they said they wouldn't do, theydid. And so I said, that's not
very fulfilling. So I wrote downthe word, words leadership,

(18:23):
engagement, accountability, andI work wrote down fulfillment,
and it's an acronym which saysleaf. And then I saw this model
in my mind's eye that was a fourcircle Venn diagram. And then I
put L, E, A, F, and I said,Well, what's at the epicenter?
Well, it's growth, but what kindof growth? Purposeful growth?

(18:45):
That fig tree in my backyardonly knows how to be a fig tree.
Its purpose is to grow figleaves, where, as we all learn,
probably in middle schoolscience, all growth of a tree or
a plant happens through the leafof that through the magic of
photosynthesis, and then I'mthinking, okay, so its purpose

(19:06):
is to grow leaves, but what'sthe result fig fruit? And the
fig fruit is not only sustenancefor animals and people. I love
me a good fig, right? And I grewup with fig news. That's a
separate point.
You love them, you hate them. Iget it and but what's cool is,
inside those figs are seeds thatcan be scattered for future

(19:31):
growth. So then I got tothinking, no longer do I believe
in the rule of threes, but Ibelieve in the higher power of
fours. I'd started doing someresearch, hey? Well, kind of
obvious. There are four seasons,not three. There are four
directions, not three. There arefour chambers to the human
heart, not three. There are fourelements to an atom, the source

(19:52):
of all life, not three. Thereare four gospels in the New
Testament of the Bible, notthree. And I could go on and on
with this four place. You getthe idea. In the book, I
literally have a page and a halfof examples, and my editor made
me cut out another page and ahalf. And so I no longer believe
in the rule of threes, but thehigher power of fours, and
specifically this four circleVenn diagram as a model, and

(20:15):
you'll see it throughout thebook. It's not the answer for
everything I understand. Hey,it's the answer for a lot of
things. And it's something thatas I started writing the book, I
started writing it with thisidea of, there are four kind of
key segments, okay, growing upin Kansas, we have a little bit
of knowledge about agriculturehere, and you don't just rush

(20:37):
out and put seeds in the ground.
You have to cultivate theground. So the first section of
the book is about cultivatingyour your your ground for
purposeful growth. In otherwords, getting you ready for
this concept, right? The secondpart is all about planting your
seed for purposeful self. Soit's all about you. And the
third section, the mediasection, is growing you forward

(20:59):
for purposeful work, and that'swhere the leaf model comes in,
and then finally, is scatteringyour seeds for purposeful life.
So we're looking at naturethat's all around us. Sometimes
we can't see the forest or thetrees right, right. All around
us is a unique metaphor forgrowth that can be applied to

(21:20):
each of us, personally andprofessionally. So I'm a big
believer in the higher power offours.

Tara Thurber (21:31):
I don't even know what where to go from here. I
love the higher power of foursand where that plays and it's
it's very interesting thatyou're talking about this and
telling this story to me now,whereas just yesterday, I was
having a conversation withsomebody, and I love gardening.

(21:53):
I just for me. I love gardeningand being able to grow my own
fruits and vegetables to notonly nourish myself, but my
children, and just working onthe garden and the activity of
it too. And I just spoke tosomebody yesterday about, you
know, I'm out hustling andworking, you know, I'm not just

(22:15):
home working on the garden, butI am, if you think about it,
yeah, that's exactly what I'mdoing. And so for you to talk
about the higher power of foursright now, just as there's
there's complete alignment, andjust very exciting through my
eyes as well, and how I wouldwant to share your higher power

(22:39):
of fours with others and and getthat into, you know,
essentially, why our topic todayis different ways to put the
human back into human resources,right? Yeah, and there's, it's,
it's like nowadays, so manypeople have extracted the human

(22:59):
and it's just transactional,yeah, but that, that human
touch, the the humanization ofit is it's missing in a lot of
teams. It's missing in a lot ofways from businesses. And I'm
going to use that to kind ofsegue into my next question,
with, with, with this purposefulgrowth revolution implemented

(23:24):
into leaders on an on anindividual basis. How can HR
play a part in this growthinternally, to create a space,
not only for their leaders, butfor everyone as a whole? And you
know, what kind of does thatspace look like as well? Yeah,

Mark Mears (23:44):
I'm glad you asked that, because for me, that's the
answer in this new world ofwork. Yeah, the space is
different,

Tara Thurber (23:52):
totally different.
So

Mark Mears (23:54):
I'm going to throw some more kind of knowledge
bombs on you, and I'm going totry to go quickly, because I
know we're we're working ontime, and I you probably could
understand, I could talk allday, and sometimes I do every
now and then someone listens,but that doesn't stop me. The
cool thing about words isthey're like a prism, okay? And

(24:17):
so if you twist that prism, thelight will shine differently on
it and will reveal somethingnew, something beautiful. And I
believe words matter, as Imentioned. So I thought about
that, and I'm like, you know, weneed doers to, you know, learn
how to become managers andmanagers to grow into leaders

(24:41):
who can ultimately be legacybuilders. So that's the model
for this new book I'm workingon, which is about putting the
human back and human resources,as you mentioned, but it builds
off the purposeful growthrevolution. So if that book, as
you probably can tell, alreadygoes 100 miles wide and maybe 10
feet down. Deep, because I'mtrying to curate this experience

(25:04):
that can help people at varioussecret through various seasons
of their life and career, right?
Yeah, yep. And this new conceptis going to be about putting
love into the workplace, and Idon't mean the kind of love.
It's going to get you a quickcall from HR, right, like
escorted out of the building.

(25:25):
But as I mentioned, you know,we've got to transform, and
that's an important word, thistired old command and control
management style that no longerserves us right, and
specifically among youngerpeople, millennials and Gen Z,

(25:47):
according to Deloitte study thatwas published I think this
summer, said nearly 90% of themwant purpose at work. They want
to feel like they're making adifference, and they don't want
to just punch in and punch outand, you know, get paid every
other week and maybe go figuresomething out on the weekend,
but they want it at work. And soif you're in HR, or you're in a

(26:14):
position of influence or powerwithin a company, you have to
take heed, because thinkingabout my P and L experience,
every concept I ever worked forlabor was the number one line
item, and if it wasn't, it wastied with cost of goods. Okay,
so if you think about thefinancial implications of

(26:36):
turnover when something doesn'twork, right, but you also have
to put in engagement andproductivity on the front end
when it works, right, right? Somy thesis is based a lot on
Gallup state of the globalworkplace study that's published
every year, and they drill intoengagement or lack of

(26:58):
engagement. And so what theyhave found are some of the
biggest disengaging factors arereally very humanistic, feeling
cared about at work or lackthereof, not feeling a
connection to purpose at work,not having clarity about what

(27:18):
I'm supposed to be doing on thefront end, and not having
frequent feedback as to how I'mdoing throughout the process,
being able to do what I do best,being able to learn and grow,
are just some of the ones thatliterally among different
demographics, male, female. It'sthe same thing, yeah, you know,

(27:39):
in my day sounds like my dad,but in my day, the command and
control management style waseverywhere. I mean, there wasn't
an alternative, at least that Iwas aware of, and it was very
hierarchical, and you didn't goabove your boss. And I hate the
word boss. I've never allowedanyone to call me that I said,

(28:00):
You call me a leader becausethat's a title I have to earn
every single day by how I showup and how I treat people. A
boss is a title that's based on,you know, whatever rank you are
within a company. Yeah, I sayrank because that command and
control style came from GIS, whocame back from World War Two and
got into the business world, andthat was just the way they were

(28:22):
trained, right? Yeah, and youneed that in the army, because
otherwise people die right? Inthe world of work, it works to a
point, but it's stifle stiflesdiversity. It stifles innovation
and creativity, because itcreates this hierarchical
position where, hey, mygeneration just tolerated it
because we had no alternative.
And now today, there arealternatives. So if you're in

(28:46):
HR, if you're a leader in acompany and you have influence,
you've got to pay heed to thesewarning signals, because younger
people, if it doesn't work forthem, they're going to bounce,
right? They've grown up in asubscription culture, right?
Spotify Netflix, you name it.

(29:07):
And when it doesn't work forthem anymore, they just bounce,
and they don't even think aboutit, right? So if you want to
increase engagement, that leadsto higher quality of work,
greater discretionary effort,instead of quiet quitting,
you're going to get betterresults. And then they're going

(29:28):
to stay longer, and then they'regoing to probably, like you tell
others about the firm, right?
It's a net promoter kind ofthing, right? Yeah. So that's
all great on the front end, onthe back end, if it doesn't
happen, then they're going toleave, and guess what you have
to do replace them? You know,the cost of reping Someone, and
not just the physical cost ofthe recruiting and the hiring

(29:48):
and the training, but what aboutthe people have to put up this,
you know, kind of take up theslack to cover for them during
that time, exactly, and they'renot getting paid anymore. Do you
think they're happy? About that,and maybe they're now thinking
about it. So Gallup saysliterally 50% of team members,
they say employees. But what dothey know

(30:10):
are actively looking to leave atany given moment of your
workforce? So you have a lot youcan do. So let's unpack this
love idea. The first the goal isfor doers. And I was young in my
career, I was a doer, right,right? And then I did it so
well, I got promoted to manager.
Well, a lot of us who went tobusiness school went to schools

(30:33):
of management. We know how tomanage projects and deadlines
and resources and metrics toperformance and people to get
tasks done. But if you're adoer, it's functional. I just
need a job, right? Right? Ifyou're a manager, it's
transactional. We have thesegoals to hit, and we're going to
hit them by following this aplus b plus c management

(30:56):
approach, right? Well, if I workfor you, in this case, like I
said, no one ever works for me.
They work with me. I've statedthat throughout my career, but
there are people that love thathierarchical thing. Well, then
if I work for you, my kind ofthought process is, I must obey
you. Now, if you're a leader,you're building trust. You're

(31:20):
building a relationship wherethey say, I know you've got my
back, and I believe in you, andI know you believe in me. Well,
that's relational, yes. Now, ifyou become a legacy builder, and
I'll say a living legacybuilder, because if you think a
legacy, that word scares somepeople, they think it's what,
maybe you bequeath something ofvalue to people you love after

(31:41):
you're dead and buried. And I'mtalking about a living legacy,
which is how you show up everyday. All I know Tara is we all
have 24 hours in a day. Not anyof us have one minute more or
one minute less. And so themodel for how to move people
from Doer to manager to leaderto living legacy builder. So now

(32:02):
let's look at the if, if, if I'mworking with a leader, I'll say,
I will follow you if they'rereally, really good. It moves
into being a legacy builder,where I'll say, not only will I
follow you, I'll lead like youwhen it's my turn to lead. And
so now think of the rippleeffect. It's not just one pebble

(32:22):
in the pond. You know, when thatPebble is under the water, you
don't see it again, right? Butwe see the ripple effect on top,
yeah. Now, let's say you havefour or five or six direct
reports. Now you have four orfive or six different ripple
effects that can happen, andthat ultimately will help us
kind of transform because whenyou're a living legacy builder,

(32:43):
it's transformational. So we gofrom functional as a doer,
transactional as a manager,relational as a leader, and
transformational as a livinglegacy builder, and we do that
through a new model called love.
Stands for listen, observe,value and empower listening to
people on a deeper, moreempathetic level, and not only

(33:07):
listening to what they say, butmaybe what they don't say. We'd
have to be naive to think thatpeople don't have something
maybe going on outside of workthat may impact the quality or
timeliness of the work thatthey're doing, and so by asking
good questions and buildingtrust and rapport, because
someone might say, Well, I'm notsure I could tell Mark that, you

(33:27):
know, I'm having relationshipissues, or I've got a sick kid
who needs surgery and I'm notsure how we're going to pay for
it, or I'm caring for a sickparent, and it's taken me a lot
of you know, time away from workto run over there and do X, Y, Z
or whatever, right? But if wehave that conversation now, I
have a deeper sense ofunderstanding of what's going on

(33:48):
in your life, and I can trulyshow up as a leader, a
confidant. Is there anything Ican do to help you? And maybe
there's not, but at least youhave offered. You have
empathized, you have understood.
And now you might say, Well,what do you need from me? Well,
Mark, I need to leave a littleearly on Tuesdays and Wednesdays

(34:12):
because I'm the one Caring forMom, and I've got to be over
there at certain time to providefor X, Y and Z. Okay, right? And
then we say, Okay, once I'velistened to someone, and it goes
back to Muslims, hierarchy ofneeds. We all need to feel seen
and heard. We all need to feelvalued. And we'll get to the E

(34:32):
in a minute. But it's not justthat Maslow told us about this.
It's all of us as human beings,if we're being honest, in front
of the mirror, we'd say I needto feel seen and heard, so now
I'm heard by listening. Now I'mobserving, I'm seeing. So don't
wait for the dreaded annualperformance appraisal that no
one likes no one does. Well, canwe just go to lunch now? Yeah.

(34:56):
But, but observe by coaching.
Encourage. Working and evencritiquing in real time, and
don't even do it quarterly, butin real time, when you see
something that someone's doing,maybe in a meeting or a behavior
or quality of work or whateverit might be, don't wait. We want
we want regular feedback. Howare we doing? Because if you

(35:19):
don't get it, we fill in theblanks, and sometimes it's
positive, and sometimes we'resurprised. When we get to the
end of the year and someonesays, Well, Mark, here are a
couple of areas that are ofconcern that you need to work
on. It's like, what? Why didn'tyou tell me, yeah, so observing
is important by coaching andmentoring in real time. I live

(35:42):
in Kansas City, home of theSuper Bowl champion Kansas City
Chiefs Andy Reid is the coach.
He doesn't wait to the end ofthe season to tell people how
they did right he is coaching inreal time on the practice field
every day, every day, in thefilm rooms before the game,
during the game, halftime andafter the game. So that's how

(36:05):
high functioning teams need towork. People want feedback, not
just because Gallup says it, butbecause we're humans, and we
need to know where we stand,because if we don't, often, when
there's a void, we'll fill it inwith our own

Tara Thurber (36:19):
you know, your own thoughts, your own thinking, and
a lot of times too, that'll sendsomebody into a downward spiral,
because they start they putjudgment on themselves for
having those voids.

Mark Mears (36:31):
Yes, they're they're the background voices that like
wet cement, begin to harden ifwe allow them and give them
power, right? So l, o, listen,observe, and value. Really
important. Value the wholeperson. I believe, as whole
people, we have four realms ofservice, and that's another bomb
I'm going to drop on you in aminute, if we have time. It's

(36:53):
personal, ourselves, relational,those we love and those who love
us. Yeah, it's professional, whowe serve at work, and spiritual.
And I don't care if you'rereligious or not, a spiritual
doesn't need to just meanreligion spirit. I think we all
have a Spirit inside of us, andI think most people believe that

(37:15):
there is a connection, and Ibelieve that connection happens
to be love, but we'll put thataside for now. If we value
someone, we don't want to justrecognize and reward them when
they do something good, right?
We also want to invest in them.
You know, Tara, when you valuesomething, you invest in it. And
when you invest in something,what do you do? You expect a

(37:37):
return, right? So it may be youcome to me and say, Hey, Mark,
I'm really interested in AI.
There's a lot out there rightnow, and I think there are some
AI techniques we can use toimprove the productivity of our
team or the job satisfaction forall of us. And then I value you
by investing in you. And say,okay, Tara, I know you live in

(37:59):
New Jersey, and there is aconference coming up in New
York, and three day conference,but you're going to learn all
this stuff about AI. I'minterested in it too, and I
believe our team would benefit.
So I'm going to invest in you.
You're going to go learn all youcan, and you're going to feel

(38:20):
valued that you were selected togo do this because you stated it
as an interest. I didn't assignthis to you. I value you. I want
to hear from you. What do youwant out of your job function,
and do you have a higher purposethat lights you up. I need to

(38:41):
know that so I can help get youthere. That's the role of the
leader is you don't work for me.
Actually, I work for you, and myjob, and John Maxwell says it
best is the job of a leader isto create new leaders, right? So
I listen to you. I've observedyou, I value you, and now I want

(39:01):
to empower you, and this iswhere the magic comes in,
because if I feel seen and heardand I feel valued, that's great.
Could stop there, but byempowering you, I'm going to
want to get the very best out ofyou, right? So I think back
greatest metaphor example Ishould say, that I can think
about is when I learned to ridea bike. And like we all did, you

(39:24):
know, I probably started with atrike, and then I was a little
bit before the big wheel. But Iremember one birthday, I got
this beautiful royal blueSchwinn Stingray bike with the
banana seat and the yellow barsand the whole nine and but I had
training wheels because I wasn'tbig enough to ride it. Well, I

(39:45):
got pretty good at toolingaround the neighborhood because
I had, you know, training wheelsto balance me so I wouldn't fall
over. I remember one Saturdaymorning, my dad woke me up and
he said, Son, it's time to taketraining wheels off. Are you
ready? And I. Like, yeah, I'vebeen waiting for this moment
because I want to be like thebig kids, right? And yet

(40:07):
fearful, because it wassomething new that I never had
before, right? And so we're inthe garage, we're taking him
off, and he's talking to me, andI'm kind of getting worked up to
go do this. And he gets me onthe bike, and he walks with me,
and he's telling me what to do,make sure that you keep
pedaling, because if you don'tstop, or if you stop pedaling,
you might fall over, and don't,if you are steering, don't over

(40:29):
correct, because you might alsofall over. Then, of course, I
stopped pedaling, and I overcorrected, and I fell over a few
times, and I remember finally,when I got it, I was able to
ride to the end of the street,stop on my own, turn around and
ride back, and I got back to theedge of the driveway where he
was standing. And I don't knowwhich of us had the bigger grin

(40:50):
on her face. I had beenempowered to do something I was
capable of doing, but needed thepush, literally and
figuratively, right? And in mymind's eye, as we're talking
Tara, I can, I can remember thatsense of freedom. I felt my
neighborhood got bigger, myworld got bigger. I lived on

(41:12):
that bike that summer,subsequent summers, and so now,
what if we were able to carrythat same sense of empowerment
in the workplace where we knowpeople have potential our job,
and it's not a charge job, onlythey have a hand in it, but it's
the leader's job. So we need totrain managers to become leaders

(41:35):
and leaders to become legacybuilders, and all we need is
love, listen, observe value andempower. And so that's what I'm
building on top of the leadmodel to create now, this love
model that is going to transformthe old, tired command and
control management style into amore relational, humanistic

(41:58):
leadership style for the benefitof all stakeholders, our team
members, our clients, ourcustomers, our guests, whatever
you want to call them, ourbusiness partners, and our
communities, because we're goingto be able to harness the power
of purpose in to the community,whether it's our local area or
whether it's our country, orwhether it's globally, it's that

(42:23):
ripple effect that we don't knowhow far we can take, but that's
why it's the purposeful growthrevolution. The word revolution
has three different meanings.
It's an uprising of the people.
Well, I can spit out researchupon research about how people
want a new world of work to workbetter for them. They want

(42:46):
flexibility. They want autonomy.
They want all those things thatI said are disengaging factors
from the Gallup study. They wantto be loved, right? And then the
second definition is a dramaticchange in the status quo. Do you
think we've had a dramaticchange in the status quo in the
workplace since COVID hit?

(43:06):
Right? So absolutely, we'reworking remotely or hybrid.
We're on digital platforms likethis that we're speaking on, and
there is a deep sense ofloneliness and depression among
younger people, because theylack that interaction that we

(43:28):
had when we were kind of growingup. So it has its good things
and its bad things, but a leadernow needs to be able to make
sense of the chaos and make thatdramatic change in the status
quo actually be a benefit to allstakeholders. And then the third
one is the third definition ofrevolution is an orbit, or an

(43:52):
object in circling another andorbiting another, right? Well,
that's where I believe. What isthat object? I believe that's
our purpose. And so as I saidbefore, this is another
knowledge bomb. There are fourrealms of service. And I say
service because if you thinkabout it, we're in service to
ourselves, personally. We're inservice to, you know, those we

(44:15):
love and those who love usrelationally. We're in service
to those we work with. And we'rein service spiritually in some
way, shape or form. Yeah, thatmakes us whole people. So I know
most of your listeners arefamiliar with Simon Sinek and
the whole start with, whymovement, right? But like that
prism, I twist it a little bitdifferently, instead of starting

(44:36):
with why, I think we shouldstart with who, and specifically
who we serve, and I believethat's the foundation that leads
us to our why, which is ourpurpose and motivations for all
the above, right? And then ourHow is, how are we uniquely
gifted? I believe, in my book, Italk about how we're all

(44:56):
geniuses, because if you go backand look at the. The Entomology
of the word genius. It's notlike it is today. It's, you
know, Einstein, we think is anexample, or Mozart, or a great,
you know, person who inventedsomething, right? It may be a
genius, but we are all geniuses,because it really means it's

(45:19):
your uniqueness. There's onlyone Tara Thurber, there's only
one mark Mears, God forbid.
And so, how are we uniquelygifted? What's our superpower?
And then, how do we invest thatsuperpower? Right? It's not
enough just to have it. We'vegot to use it. And that leads us

(45:41):
to our what, what do we do? Howdo we use what we're gifted to
do to that in the workplace thatallows us to play a role as a
team member? I hate the wordemployee, yeah, because I
mentioned because think about anemployee. Maybe someone who
just, you know, does work toearn a paycheck, right? A team
member has the sense of duty andis part of this camaraderie and

(46:05):
this esprit de corps where itshould be, the whole is greater
than the sum of its parts. Whenthe team is put together, right?
There's only one team that canemerge victorious at the end of
the Super Bowl, right? They mayhave the best players, but I
don't think so. I think theyhave the best team, yeah, and
then whether it's offense,defense, special teams, you

(46:26):
know, starters, second, third,strength, whatever, everyone
plays a role in the 52 manroster, right? So in a team
orientation, inside a company,everyone who knows their role
and is allowed to participate tothe fullest capability, and
that's where the power ofdiversity comes in. And I'll

(46:48):
just speak quickly on that,because it's so important that
as human beings, we have to feellike we belong. See, diversity
just gets us in the door. That'sgood. Equity gives us an equal
voice. Better yet, inclusiongets a seat at the table.
Hallelujah. But if we don't feellike we belong, we're likely not

(47:10):
going to feel psychologicallysafe enough to be vulnerable, to
give of our very best, like I'veworked hard to get to this seat.
I don't want to say somethingdumb or stupid or have it
boomerang back, and now maybe beat risk of getting pulled out of
that seat, right? But the otherpeople in the room don't know
you feel that way, right? And sothey're just thinking, you know,

(47:34):
Tara is quiet. You know, I don'treally know where she stands on
any issue, because she doesn'treally speak up. She nods a lot,
but she's not really giving upher best. And so that's where
the power of diversity, and Ibelieve it is a superpower and
not a box to be checked, and whythere's backlash out there today

(47:55):
is because people are doing itwrong. That's where the final
knowledge bomb comes in. Yeah,how we move from a culture which
is a word like that prism I lookat and twist it and go, you
know, a culture may just be aplace someone feels merely a
part of. It's not bad, but acommunity is a place someone

(48:18):
feels they belong in. You seethe difference, and notice how I
emphasize the word feels.
Because I don't care whatindustry we're in. I don't care
what you know, role you playwithin your your company. We're
all in the people business well,until the robots or the zombies
or chat GPT takes us away,right? All human beings, and so

(48:39):
we're really all in the peoplebusiness. And we're in the
people business, we have to bein the feelings business. Yeah,
the great poet laureate, MayaAngelou, was famous for saying,
I've learned that people werewill forget what you said.
They'll forget what you've done,but they'll never forget how you

(48:59):
made them feel. So we've got tobring love back into the
workplace. We've got to puthumans back in human resources
with the priority. Now here's away of thinking of it. What if
we put more resources to allowpeople to be more human than
merely treating them as mereresources.

Tara Thurber (49:23):
I love that. I absolutely love that I think by
by giving and by giving love forit or with it, is the way it's
transformational. It isabsolutely transformational for
any type of workplace, for anytype of, you know, community
that's coming together. I loveall of this. I love, love, love,

(49:49):
no

Mark Mears (49:49):
pun intended, right?

Tara Thurber (49:51):
And you know, Mark, it's amazing, not amazing.
It's very I take this as a verylarge. Urge for me, personally,
synchronicity right now andtalking about the first book
with the purposeful growthrevolution and now leading into

(50:14):
love, it makes me really thinkabout my past, and I've always
led with love. But when youbreak it down, it's exactly how
I've wanted to lead with andit's, you know, a lot of times I
I've I love this, or it's loveyou babe, or, okay, I love you,

(50:38):
or service level, totally. Butreally it's, there's so many,
there's so much more rooted intothat surface, that now that I'm
I'm speaking with you andlearning how you've put this all
together. It, to me, it opens upa brand new world to explore.
And I hope that our listenerscan think about that, whether

(51:00):
they're part of HR, whether, youknow, from a CEO down to an
intern, we all need to lead withlove, and if we can bring love
back into the workplace, I feelthat communities within each
community and teams withinteams, yeah, we are all going to
Give each other, and giveourselves a chance to grow,

(51:23):
innovate and and take whateverwe're doing, whatever our
purpose is, to that next level,if we can lead with love.

Mark Mears (51:33):
Yeah, and I love what you said about the surface
level. Again, it comes back tothat kind of pebble in the ponds
if you skip it across the top,all you're doing is skimming it.
But it's not until it goes deepthat the real ripple effects
happen, right? And the wordcommunity is so important,
because you think about teams,and I love teams, but I think

(51:56):
they're, they're microcommunities, right? Because if
you feel like you belong, let'ssay I'm I'm a running back, and
I know my role on a footballteam, right? And I'm given X
amount of carries, I feel like Ibelong, right? And I have to now
go perform, right? So there'sthis duality, which is, okay,

(52:16):
you made it on the roster. Youwere given this opportunity. Now
you got to take it. You got toseize it. So often I get asked,
Mark, this sounds great, but,you know, I work in a company
where I do have bosses, and I dohave, you know, a bit of a toxic
work environment, and so peoplelistening need to wake up,
because there's, you know,again, a movement away from that

(52:42):
you don't want to be thedinosaur that just gets dug up
years later as a fossil. That'snot the legacy you want to
leave. So like any thing inlove, it takes a risk, right? I
mean, those of those who've beenin love, right? We have to risk
putting ourselves out there,yes, and for fear, maybe it not

(53:05):
being requited, right? Butbecause we feel it so strong, we
go ahead and do it. Andsometimes it works out,
sometimes it doesn't. So ifyou're a leader wondering, well,
what do I have to do different Ilike what I'm hearing? You gotta
risk it. You've got to risk it,and it's worth it, right? And so
all of a sudden, when you showup different as a leader, people

(53:27):
will notice, and then you caneven say, hey, you know what,
I'm I'm going to have toapologize to some of you that I
don't believe I've been the kindof leader that you deserve, or
the kind of leader that I wouldeven want, and I'd like to reset
our relationship, becausewithout that humility, it'll be

(53:52):
difficult, right? And don'tthink that I started my career
like this, right? I didn't. Ihad to learn it over time and
again, like you, well, I hadcertain kind of love behaviors.
There were times I saidsomething or wrote something I'm
not proud of, and I had torepair it right but, but when

(54:14):
you have an opportunity to knowsomeone's heart, when you build
that kind of relationship,you'll see how people will give
you grace, just like you wouldwant grace, right? So servant
leadership is the highest formof leadership, I believe. But
it's servant coming withhumility, mm hmm, and not

(54:37):
thinking, you know it all, orhaving to be the smartest guy in
the room. And for years, Ithought I had to be I was paid
and brought in to do turnaroundsand do all this stuff, and so I
thought I had to have all theanswers. Well, a great example
was not that many years ago, Iwas the chief marketing officer,
and you probably know,SolidWorks being in New Jersey,

(54:58):
based in Philly, and. We boughtsome other concepts to create,
wow, works a bigger, broaderportfolio, but when I was hired
on, I started in November of oneyear, and I found out that we
didn't have a marketing and menucalendar in place for the next
year that was starting January,so we had a positioning that we

(55:23):
liked a lot, was called beoriginal, that our agency helped
us work with. And so that's allwe had. And, you know, salad
Works has like 60 some odd, youknow, fresh, flavorful
ingredients that you could makea salad as original as you are.
And that was the positioningthat we started with, that we
didn't have a marketing calendaror menu calendar, so I got as

(55:44):
many people as who wanted toshow up into a large conference
room at our agency in downtownPhiladelphia. And it was not
just marketing people and ouragency partners and our PR
agency partners, but I invitedour operations and training
partners. I invited our financepartners, I invited our menu
development team and our HRfolks, and so everyone could

(56:09):
hear this at the same time andcollaborate, because we weren't
going to get out of thatconference room until we
developed at least a skeletalplan for that next year, but a
final plan for the firstquarter, because that was, you
know, all the marketing and PLP,and all the stuff that we would
have to have in. And with thelast two weeks being kind of the
holidays, right, we had thismuch time to get it done, yeah.

(56:33):
And so I'm asking people aroundthe table, and it was great
energy. Imagine if you were inHR and you were invited to a
meeting like that. Everyone hasideas

Tara Thurber (56:43):
be amazing, yeah?
Everybody's called diversity,right? And then they get to
everybody gets to be a part ofthe solution. Yes,

Mark Mears (56:50):
because guess what, we're all going to have to
execute it when we want righthere, so you might as well be it
on the ground floor. Yeah, butsee, that's where I believe in
the power of diversity and Ibreak it down in my book as a
couple ways, there's outwarddiversity, which is what most
people think of diversity as,how we look, gender, age, race,

(57:11):
creed, color, religiousaffiliation or not, political
affiliation, sexual orientationor preference. But that's
important because that's who weare and where we're from, so
that's our lived experiences.
And that outward diversity isimportant, but only so much as
it leads to inward diversity,which is how we think and how we

(57:33):
communicate, right? So that thencreates total diversity. Think
of it as almost like a yin yangsymbol, the two types of
diversity, outward and inward,coming together to form total
diversity. And that's how youthink, how you show up, how you
contribute, right? So I'm like,we need a theme to kind of

(57:57):
package this whole year, we'vegot our brand positioning about
being original. We've got somecool ideas that are bouncing
around, but we need something topackage it and promote it and
publicize it. Somebody speaks upand says, Hey, Mark, why don't
we claim this year as the yearof originality. And I'm like,

(58:21):
That's it. Oh my god, there itis. Awesome. So this whole idea
of the original, and now we sayin the first quarter, this means
x, in the second quarter, itmeans y and so on and so forth.
Well, guess who that person was,the executive chef. Wow.
Doggone, Executive Chef who'ssupremely talented, that's

(58:43):
amazing, felt safe enough tothrow that out there, and I was
humble enough to say it didn'thave to be my idea. I don't want
it to be my idea, and I lovethat it was your idea. And so I
would tell that story in everymeeting. And so that that sense
of community, that sense ofbelonging, that people felt, was
palpable, and it led to us notonly putting that first quarter

(59:06):
final thing and sketching outthe other three quarters. We
stayed there and we ideateduntil we almost nailed the whole
year in one Dang day. And thatshows you the power of
diversity. It shows you thepower of creating a community of
belonging that leads to peoplefeeling empowered to be their

(59:28):
very best self for the benefitof all stakeholders. Who did
that benefit the team members,of course, but now our guests in
our restaurants got to benefitfrom it, right? And our business
partners got to benefit from it.
And by the way, we invited someof them too. I mean, if you're

(59:51):
you know the restaurantbusiness, you're probably
pouring either Coke or Pepsi,and I've done both. Well, they
have a tremendous amount ofresources to bring to you, and
they know. Because I basicallybeat this into their head. If we
sell more sandwiches or pizzasor salads, we're going to sell
more Pepsi or Coke. So it's inyour best interest to help give
us your resources. Or Tyson withchicken has their own, you know,

(01:00:14):
Executive Chef and research lab.
Why wouldn't we, if we weregoing to do chicken products, go
to one of our supplier partnersand bring them in the fold. And
so I've done this at severaldifferent restaurant concepts,
and that's how you say thebusiness partners feel like
partners, not just vendors, andthen your communities. We did a
huge program tied to No KidHungry, where we were giving

(01:00:34):
back to those who couldn'tafford to eat with us, right?
And so it was part of this hugeteam building exercise that led
to a full on marketing and menucalendar, that led to alignment
of we know what we're supposedto do. We're clear on it. Now
let's go do it, and we're goingto feel great about the results.
And we had a killer year

Tara Thurber (01:00:58):
That's amazing, that's amazing. And by bringing
that all together, you are thenable to, I mean, look at that
growth in a killer year and andit's, it's all about success
throughout, yeah, so it'sbeautiful

Mark Mears (01:01:13):
for stakeholders, and that's how a business leader
needs to look at theirbusinesses through the lens of
those four stakeholders that arealso in that four circle Venn
diagram, because they'reintegrated, yeah, right, but all
with purposeful growth at theepicenter, and that's the model,
and I've seen it work, andthat's why I'm leading the
revolution, because I wantothers like you. Yeah, the

(01:01:36):
platform that you've given methere with you, this with your
listeners, and the people thatyou interact with with defined
talent can now go, Hey, there'sa better way it can be done.
I've heard it and I've seen it,and let's go do it together.

Tara Thurber (01:01:51):
Beautiful. So Mark, just to wrap this up, we
are way over time, but I hopeall of our listeners have
enjoyed every single second ofthis. Can you share with us your
top five ways to put the humanback into human resources?

Mark Mears (01:02:08):
Well, I've basically given you the love model. Yeah,
so there's four right there.
Listen, observe, yep, value andempower. But I'm going to throw
in the bonus fifth, becauseyou've asked me to right, even
though I believe in the higherpower of fours, I do what the
host tells me to do. The fifthone is curiosity. Okay, there

(01:02:28):
was a great movie in the 90scalled Glengarry, Glen Ross and
it had Alec Baldwin and JackLemmon and some other young, up
and coming talent, and AlecBaldwin played the role of this
boss of a real estate dial fordollars firm. And so he was at
their offices one day, and hehad this whiteboard, and he got

(01:02:52):
up at the whiteboard, he'strying to inspire them to do
better. And he wrote a, b, c,and he says it stands for always
be closing. And so I alwaysthought of that as changing the
sea by looking at that prison alittle bit differently and
seeing the light shine oncuriosity. Always be curious.
Ask good questions. I rememberearlier in my career, I had, I'm

(01:03:17):
gonna say leader, but he was aboss, but he said, Mark, you
know, you need to ask morequestions. And I'm like, oh,
yeah, okay, so being curiousasking questions now gives you a
chance to broaden yourperspective, and it allows you
to love people better by askingquestions,

Tara Thurber (01:03:41):
more questions, right? I love

Mark Mears (01:03:43):
that. So that's my fifth one

Tara Thurber (01:03:46):
mark. This was fantastic. Thank you so so very
much for joining us today,sharing with us both of your
books. When does your secondbook come out? Well,

Mark Mears (01:03:56):
that's good question. I've started on it of
research, and it's in my mind'seye formed, but now it has to be
typed, and so I'm hoping spring.
Wouldn't it be a greatopportunity if I could have got
it done by february 14 andValentine's Day had this motion
around, you know? But I don'tthink that's going to be

(01:04:16):
possible. But sometime,hopefully this spring. Alright,

Tara Thurber (01:04:21):
well, excellent. I will make sure to be keep in
touch with you, because Idefinitely want to get through
this first book, and then I'mready. I'm ready for the second
book. Let's bring some love intoit all. Yeah,

Mark Mears (01:04:33):
can I? Can I offer you and your listeners the
opportunity to go to my websiteat mark A, Mears, M, E, A, R,
s.com, and there you can take afree, purposeful growth self
assessment. It takes about fiveor six minutes to fill out, but
when you're done, I will thensend you a customized PDF with
your results and some helpfultips that I call seeds for

(01:04:57):
growth for me, right? Excellent.
So if you. You do that, that'dbe great. And also, man, I'd
love to connect with yourlisteners, and so hit me up on
LinkedIn. Follow me. I'll followyou, and then we'll connect, and
then we'll keep thisconversation going, because I
would love to learn from you,and that's really a wonderful
opportunity for me to continueto grow and learn. I say in the

(01:05:18):
book, when you stop learning,you start dying. So I'm never
going to stop learning. And Ialways say, always stay, you
know, green and growing, right?
Your book, yeah, remember to payit backward. And that's, that's
just what I live by. Stay greenand growing and pay it backward.
But you can do that by hittingme up on LinkedIn, and I would

(01:05:40):
love to continue thisconversation with you, one on
one.

Tara Thurber (01:05:43):
Perfect mark. When we do post this podcast, we'll
make sure to get all of thelinks out there too for our
audience as well. Perfect. Weare defined talent coming to you
at top five. Make it a greatday. You.