March 23, 2023 • 29 mins
With the unpredictability of the climate and other challenges, the growth of indoor farming seems inevitable. Hear from Travis Parman, Chief Communications Officer at AppHarvest, a pioneering company in controlled environment agriculture. Discover what helps indoor farming flourish and how it may impact the future.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hello, and welcome to the Top Con Talks Agriculture
podcast.
On each episode, we discuss andshare topics that are important
to farmers, growers, andagribusiness.
My name is Dan Hendricks, and Iam your host for today.
I serve as a businessdevelopment manager for Topcon
Agriculture, and I get to workwith an amazing group of people
(00:33):
that love agriculture and theylove technology, and they strive
to help growers and farmers findsolutions.
Now, they say that farming islocal, and I, I wholeheartedly
believe that every region of ourcountry and the world does
agriculture just a little bitdifferently.
And because of the uniquesetting and location of the farm
(00:55):
and the crop, and the soil andthe weather, every farm is just
a little bit different.
Working for Topcon, uh, it hasallowed me to travel to
different parts of the UnitedStates and witness firsthand the
diversity in agriculture.
And I live in, uh, the Midwestwhere the predominant crops are
corn and beans.
But I love that I get theopportunity to see a wide
(01:17):
variety of crops and ways ofgrowing our food across this
great country of ours.
A few months ago, a coworkersent me a link to a CBS News
video about a cutting edgecompany in Moorehead, Kentucky
that blew my mind.
Uh, the name of the company iscalled App Harvest, and they are
(01:37):
one of the world's leaders inindoor farming.
They currently have 165 acres ofindoor farming facilities that
are producing a variety ofcrops.
The video is so impressive thatour Topcon podcast team said We
need to do an episode on indoorfarming, and we need to see if
we can get someone from AppHarvest to tell us about what
(01:59):
they are doing.
So that's what today's episodeis all about, the revolution of
indoor farming.
And we have a very special guesttoday from App Harvest.
His name is Travis Parman.
Travis is the ChiefCommunications Officer at App
Harvest.
He's been doing this indoorfarming gig for about two and a
(02:20):
half years.
Interestingly enough, Travisexperience before App Harvest
was in the automotive industry.
And today he is helping AppHarvest grow and expand and
innovate farming practices inthis indoor farming space.
Travis, welcome to the Topconpodcast.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Thanks, Dan.
Happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Uh, we're glad to have you to set the scene.
For our listeners, give us asimple explanation of indoor
farming or c t a, the, thecontrolled environment
agriculture.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, so in a nutshell, these are giant indoor
farms where we can farm, uh, 365days a year.
And so, uh, the controlledenvironment agriculture means
that regardless of theenvironment outside, we create
an internal environment that isoptimal for fruit and vegetable
(03:13):
production.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Most people are familiar with a greenhouse.
Would you say, is it fair to saylike what you guys are doing is
similar to a greenhouse just ona monstrous scale?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, these, we refer to them as high-tech indoor
farms, and that's causegreenhouse can cover such a
spectrum of different types offacilities from low tech all the
way through high tech, uh, thatwe really emphasized that.
But we did a lot of technologytransfer from the Netherlands
because the Dutch had been doingthis for 50 to 70 years.
(03:46):
Uh, and so we just did it at aUS sized scale with the most
current technology.
Um, but the style is actually aVenlo greenhouse style because
we rely on sunshine first, uh,is where we turn to for energy.
And so we've got a glass roofthat's diffused glass that
really, uh, scatters the lightto help each plant get its fair
(04:09):
share.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah.
Well, that's really cool.
Uh, when App Harvest was foundedin 2017, what was the goal in
the vision behind it?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, that was when our C E O Jonathan Webb was
running around with a laptop anda backpack and, you know, maybe
two or three employees.
Uh, and then it scaled prettyquickly.
Uh, he had done, uh, major solarinfrastructure for Department of
Defense facilities, uh, whenthey were trying to switch over
(04:40):
to do more renewable energy.
So all the talk at that point,he was in DC was around, um, uh,
energy security.
And the more he dug into it, herealized, hey, that's an
important issue, but foodsecurity increasingly as much
more important than that.
And so he had been looking forwhat opportunities can I find
(05:01):
that I can take and do somethingat a large scale and help create
industry back in easternKentucky, uh, where they really
need the jobs, where there's anavailable workforce, uh, to
supply the industry and reallycreate an ecosystem that feeds
something larger.
Uh, and so that was where theidea for App Harvest started.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Uh, it's an amazing idea and he, you guys have done
such an amazing job to to launchit.
So a three part question herefor you.
Tell us how many facilities younow have, what crops you're
growing, and where does the foodthat you're growing go?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah, okay.
So we've got four farms.
Um, so we got, uh, we, westarted with our flagship farm
in Morehead, Kentucky.
And so then we expanded, uh,particularly last year, opening
up three more farms.
So in Somerset, Kentucky, we'vegot a strawberry farm that also,
uh, seasonally does cucumbers.
(06:00):
We've got in Richmond, Kentucky,uh, a farm that basically is a
copy paste of our Moorhead farmthat focuses on tomatoes.
Uh, and so combined Richmond andMoorhead can do about 1.5
million tomato plants at a time.
Uh, and then we also have inBerea, Kentucky, a salad greens
(06:22):
facility.
And so that can do about 30, 35million lettuce plants, uh, at a
time.
Uh, and that's a touchlesssystem with autonomous
harvesting.
And so those are our four, uh,and all of the different types
of, uh, crops that we're growingthere, we expect to continue to
diversify our crop portfolio alittle bit more for, um,
(06:46):
controlled environmentagriculture.
Uh, it's vine crops that tend todo best.
So, uh, another, another areathat we might look at in
addition to the, the, thetomatoes.
The berries, uh, would be thingsalong the lines of, of peppers,
uh, and, and other wine cropslike that.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And these crops that you're growing, the tomatoes,
uh, the lettuce strawberriesare, are they going to grocery
stores?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yes.
So we sell through, we've got adistributor called Master Arti
Produce, which is one of the top, um, greenhouse grown producers
, um, in the US anddistributors.
And so we sell through themunder a number of their brands
under a number of private labelbrands to a combination of the
top 25 grocery stores, uh,restaurants and food service
(07:33):
outlets.
So a couple of our biggestcustomers right now are places
like Wendy's and Kroger.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Okay.
So I'm probably eating yourtomatoes or have maybe for
lunch.
And I had no idea that they weregrown indoors.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Depends on where you are.
Um, cause we, that's one of thebenefits of being an Appalachia
is we are within 70% of the USpopulation in a day's drive.
And so that shortens your foodmiles, which is not only more
economical, but it's also moresustainable.
Uh, and you're able to pickthose, uh, crops when they're
(08:09):
riper fresh in some cases havebeen picked, packed, and on
store shelves within 24 hours.
So one of the reasons that coalwas so popular, uh, was so, uh,
successful in Appalachia, wasn'tjust that they had the coal
deposits.
There were other areas that hadthe deposits, but it's cause it,
they were so close to majormarkets.
(08:30):
Uh, and so that's a real benefitwith perishable goods.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
So talk to me about some of the main advantages of
indoor farming compared to atraditional way of farming or
growing these types ofvegetables
Speaker 2 (08:44):
In today's environment.
With the climate continuing tochange, um, one of the big
advantages is having a, a, aclimate that you know, that you
can rely on, one that you areare controlling.
Uh, and so that's a majorbenefit.
Um, also, um, using less water.
Um, for a long time we've farmed, uh, as if water really isn't
(09:06):
of any consequence because it'salways been readily available,
uh, basically at a zero cost.
And increasingly that's not thecase anymore, especially in some
of our most traditional growingareas.
So, uh, this type of farminglets you use about 90% less
water than open fieldagriculture.
You're also, uh, able to do veryprecision dosing of nutrients.
(09:29):
So you're using a fraction ofthe fertilizer, uh, that would
you would use in some otherareas.
Uh, and so those are some of thekey benefits also, um, just
using a smaller portion of land.
Um, cause we can get about 30times the productivity per
square acre, uh, in ourcontrolled environment versus
(09:50):
open field farming.
Uh, and so you get, uh, a, asynergy there of just being able
to be efficient, these tomatoplants.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
, do you
grow tomatoes?
Yes.
Did you grow up growingtomatoes?
Yes.
Ok.
Your best.
How much of a tomato whispererare you?
How tall do your plants get?
How many productive, um, trussesdo you have on them?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Um, not very good.
Um, we usually end up buyingthem from the guy, uh, down the
road because we burn ours up and, uh, it, it just ends up being
a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
.
Yeah.
So these vines can get to beabout 30, 35 feet tall with 2025
productive trusses on them.
They're indeterminate and sothey grow upward.
So we're not a vertical farm,which stacks cause we rely on
the sunlight as much as we can.
Um, but you do get that benefitof being able to really grow a
(10:48):
large quantity in a relativelysmall area, which can make it
really productive for packingand shipping out, uh, harvesting
, um, uh, all of the crop carein general in a, in a
concentrated area.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Well, we've talked in previous episodes of this
podcast about, uh, the future ofagriculture and the, the need to
do more with less.
And it sounds like that'sexactly what you guys are doing,
uh, here.
And you, you touched on autonomya little bit, but, uh, talk to
me more about the autonomousfarming techniques in your
(11:22):
facility and why they'reimportant.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah.
So Berea is our, um, mostsophisticated in terms of
autonomy, which can help a lotin the area of food safety,
especially when it comes tothings like lettuces.
Um, which, uh, LEDs can be pronein an open field environment,
uh, to collecting disease.
You have an animal run throughor fly across, uh, that can drop
(11:47):
, uh, debris, you know, intothat, that gets collected.
Um, or things that are morewaterborne in general, uh, can
tend to carry, uh, more, moredisease and, and plant issues
along with it.
Uh, and so the, the lessinterference you have, um, with
being able to pass along, um,certain types of disease or
(12:09):
viruses or bacteria, uh, thebetter that can be.
Uh, so in the case of Bria withour leafy greens, um, basically
everything from filling thetroughs to, to seeding them, to
them going into a germinationphase, um, the whole crop cycle
is about 21 to 28 days for that.
So they basically grow towardthe guillotine, is what I call
(12:32):
it.
You remember those, uh, oldcommercials that, um, where you
attached a cutting device to theend of your vacuum cleaner and
to, for a haircut called aflowbee?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yes.
That, that's similar to whathappens.
The computer knows to dowhatever salad mix it needs.
I need to pull this trough, thistray from this area.
And so it does the mixautomatically based on the
computer program.
And it pulls, uh, like about a16 foot trough, um, into the
guillotine area.
(13:03):
And there's a little suctiondevice that pulls it upward, uh,
and then snips it, and then putsit on a conveyor, does the mix.
We do the washing, uh, and the,the drying and the packaging all
on site.
So the first time a human reallyinteracts with the product is
when it's already been packed,uh, and a, uh, fork truck is
(13:25):
going through to put it on the,the, the transportation to get
it to the grocery store.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Now, did App Harvest have to develop most of this
technology or adapt it fromother industries?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
We have worked to adapt it, but we've tried not to
reinvent the wheel, uh, where wedidn't have to.
Uh, so, um, again, a lot of thiswe have been able to do
technology transfer from theNetherlands, um, and then just
really size it, like reallyscale it up for, for us
proportions.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
So, Travis, tell me, how does this technology play a
role in combating the strainedfood supply chain?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah.
So, uh, increasingly it'sdifficult for farmers to know
what growing season they'regoing to have, when it's gonna
start, when it's gonna end,whether they're gonna be
affected by extreme wind events,by extreme heat, by drought, by
flooding.
So having a controlledenvironment helps stabilize your
(14:26):
ability to produce and it helpsto create more reliable quantity
and quality.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
And I watched an interview with your C E o
Jonathan Webb and he stated thathe believes in producing a
product that's good for thepeople and good for the planet.
Is that your mission and the waythat you guys are investing in
the future of food?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, the United Nation reportssuggest we're gonna need to
produce 50 to 70% more food tomeet the needs of a growing
population by 2050.
Well, 70% of all fresh wateralready is dedicated to
agriculture.
So that means we're gonna haveto grow far more with far less.
(15:07):
So, absolutely.
We believe every form ofagriculture is necessary and
we're gonna need every tool inthe arsenal to meet that
challenge.
And so this is one way to helpproduce more food with fewer
resources.
And it's not good for all croptypes, but for vine crops, uh,
you can be incredibly efficientwith it.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Now when I watch the cbs uh, video, uh, it, it was,
it was incredible to see all ofit working and it was working as
a fine oiled machine, but, uh,I'm sure in the early days there
were some, uh, hurdles that youhad to get over.
So can you tell me what weresome of the big challenges that
you guys ran into when you firststarted trying to do this?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, and I would say , um, what we have said is that
we estimate that depending onthe type of farm it is, uh, it
takes about 24 to 36 months forthem really to ramp up.
So for example, Morehead is nowin its third season of
harvesting.
And so we're seeing that our keyperformance indicators are
(16:11):
looking much more like we wantthem to, uh, with three seasons
of experience.
Uh, and so I, it's really, Ithink ramping up to the scale,
uh, and just learning, um, that,you know, we've hired a lot of
local folks, uh, and gettingthem trained so those crop care
specialists stay on top of thetasks.
(16:32):
Um, cause it's really all aboutthe plant and plant health.
And so little things like the deleafing and the pruning and the
suffering that are required,staying on top of all of those
issues, um, for a plant that isgonna produce for about 10
months outta the year iscritical.
(16:53):
Cause otherwise you have acascade effect.
And so I think that's one of thebig things we've learned is just
staying on top of all of thehygiene and care for those
plants so that they'll beproductive and have optimal
health all the way through theseason.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Speak to the economic benefits of indoor farming,
both, both for your companygrowing it and, and for
consumers.
How's, how's the economics playout?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
So there's a lot of demand for us grown.
Um, and from the, the our endbuyers, uh, the grocery stores,
the restaurants, they like thereliability of the quality and
the quantity, uh, that they canget.
And they like shortening thosesupply chains.
(17:42):
Um, so there's a real benefitthere as well.
So the reduced amount ofspoilage that we chatted a
little bit earlier, uh, ishelpful.
Uh, you wind up with longershelf life as a result of that
too.
Uh, so all of those things helpmargins all around.
Uh, and then if you can create agood, reliable product that has
(18:04):
a name brand on it, then peoplecan know, uh, that they can go
to that and that it's gonna haveconsistent, reliable, quality,
taste, texture, nutrition, uh,and so building that up over
time, uh, can be really helpfultoo.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I learned that Martha Stewart is on your board of
directors, uh, for App Harvest.
So tell us how she serves as amentor and a resource for your
organization.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Yeah, so Martha, really there's, uh, there there
are fewer people that you canthrow out there that, that
people know, you know betterright,
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Than
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Her Yeah.
As an authority in food, uh, andthe home in general.
Uh, and you know, she also pullszero punches.
So if you put something in frontof her that is not up to her
standards or is not the qualitythat she thinks she's gonna let
you know about it.
Uh, so she really has helpedcoach Jonathan, uh, in many
(19:03):
regards.
He was in his boots the firsttime, but we had our first
harvest and sent her sampletomatoes worried about what she
would think about them, but shegave them a thumbs up.
She put'em on her Instagramaccount, she cooked with them.
And now when she comes intoKentucky to visit, um, a lot of
people don't necessarily want totravel with fresh produce back
(19:26):
home, but boy, she does.
She will tell every box underand then you'll see them in her
Instagram feed on what she hascooked with them over the next
week.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Uh, that's excellent.
So talk to me about what indoorfarming means for the future of
agriculture.
A and let's do that.
And then let's talk about whatit means for the future of the
climate.
Tell me where you see thisgoing.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
So we really see controlled environment
agriculture as needing to be thethird wave of sustainable
infrastructure.
If you consider the first onebeing renewable energy, the
second one being thepopularization, the
mainstreaming of electricvehicles.
We see controlled environmentagriculture needing to be that
third wave.
(20:11):
Um, cause we've gotten the pointwhere, um, based on weather
changing, it's just toounpredictable, um, for our food
supply.
And people started to see that alittle bit during Covid, uh,
when grocery store shelves wentempty and they started to see
how short those food supplylines really mm-hmm.
(20:32):
can be mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
how
fragile they are, I would say.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
We also, um, about a year, year and a half into
Covid, we had that, um, icestorm that dipped way into Texas
and it prevented a number oftransfer trucks from being able
to haul produce from Texasacross the border.
And grocery store shelves wentemptier.
And so it made it more top ofmind for people.
(20:57):
So right now, the U S D Aestimates that we rely on about
two thirds of our fresh fruitsand vegetables being imported.
So there's a way that we cancreate US jobs, um, doing this
in the us doing it sustainably,doing it economically.
(21:18):
Uh, and so that's, that's wherewe see it headed as increasingly
, uh, leveraging more controlledenvironment agriculture
throughout the us Right now it'sestimated that the US has about
6,000 acres total of controlledenvironment agriculture compared
to Europe, which has more than500,000.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Wow.
So they're, they're ahead of usin, in this realm.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah.
Uh, it really started in theNetherlands, and that's where we
transferred a lot of ourtechnology from.
And they did it because duringWorld War ii, their supply lines
got cut and so they werelandlocked and a good portion of
their population starved todeath.
And they made it a nationalpriority and they said, we will
always be able to feed ourpeople.
(22:03):
Uh, and they developedgreenhouse technology to be able
to do that.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Right, right.
Well, it, it's, it's very wise,it's very smart.
Now it's my understanding thatyour company sponsors a high
school AgTech education program.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, I mean, to have a future of farming, you've
gotta have what we liketo call farmers and futurists.
And agriculture doesn'tnecessarily excite a lot of
kids.
Uh, and especially where we arein eastern Kentucky, a good
number of them come from smallfamily farms where it's really
(22:41):
hard to make a living on them.
So you ask'em if they wanna doagriculture, if they wanna be a
farmer, and they're like, noway.
I've seen how difficult it is.
I have zero interest in that.
So we've sponsored, um, 12 hightech, um, farm classrooms, uh,
where we teach'em hydroponics.
(23:02):
And so once they learn, Hey,there's a high tech approach to
this where I could farm from myiPhone, from my iPad.
And so we have these retrofittedshipping containers that they
can grow in year round.
And just from one shippingcontainer, which is like, you
know, roughly the size of like,like half the back of a transfer
truck, you can get theequivalent of about three to
(23:23):
five open acres, uh, of, uh, ofagricultural land there.
And so, uh, it really isstarting to excite a number of
them.
And so they're starting topursue, uh, educations in
agriculture.
Some of'em have started to comeback and intern with us.
Uh, and so that's what we'retrying to do to build that
(23:45):
ecosystem here.
Cause we'd really like there tobe, uh, an AgTech hub in the US
outta Central Appalachia.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
So you've taken the, the traditional farming, uh,
methods and then showing'em how,like you said, with the iPhone
generation, how you can mergethose two and how you're, you're
, you're doing agriculture in a,in a high-tech way.
That's fascinating.
Now also, tell me about thesocial mission at App Harvest.
You spoke a a little bit to alittle bit about that to me
(24:16):
earlier.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah.
App Harvest is organized as apublic benefit corporation, and
were also certified as a B Corp,uh, which means that there, we,
we have a very defined missionand purpose.
Uh, and so in addition tofarming more sustainably, uh, we
also have a goal of providinggood jobs in Appalachia.
(24:39):
Uh, and so that all workstogether, um, to, to try to
create something that can belong lasting and that really can
be generational here, that canprovide, uh, a good number of
jobs for the region where we'redrawing in folks who want to
study, do the r and d that'sbehind controlled environment
agriculture, who are interestedin doing the software, the
(25:02):
robotics that help thisindustry.
So everything from the Crop Carespecialists all the way through
the business behind AgTech toreally become an international
resource here out of the us.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Well, I commend you guys for, you know, being
homegrown and, you know, um,American jobs and American
ingenuity and being able to makethis, you know, self-sustaining.
That's, it's incredible.
Let's talk about goals here alittle bit.
Like what, what are your goalsthis year at App Harvest?
And then tell me, you know, 10years from now, where do you,
(25:39):
where do you guys want to be 20years from now?
Where do you wanna be?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, so we're transitioning right now from,
you know, we've done majorinvestment in infrastructure
going from, uh, the first farmto opening three additional
farms last year.
Now we're with that four FarmNetwork.
We're focused on coreoperations.
And so we've got to make thesefarms sing, make them as
(26:05):
productive as possible, ramp upthe production, ramp up the
revenue coming from those.
Uh, and then we have aspiredfrom the beginning to have a 12
farm network.
So once we get these profitable,once we're able to, to get
additional investment intoexpanding the network, that's
where we go from here.
(26:25):
So eventually we see being able,uh, to just continue to expand
that network so that we'recontinuing to provide a greater
portion of us grown fruits andvegetables so that we can
decrease that reliance onimports.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
So efficiency is, is a big focus.
Not only is the whole oroperation efficiency efficient,
but right now what you have,you're trying to just make it
like a well-oiled machine andmake it work, maximize it as
much as you can.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, the more reliable, uh,that we can make, uh, fruit and
vegetable production, you know,so that it's more like, uh, a
manufacturing type environment,um, with that type of
reliability and consistency, um,you know, being able to predict
your quantity and quality isreally the holy grail and
(27:21):
agriculture.
Um, and that's what'sincreasingly challenged, given,
especially weather changes thesedays, right?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Um, so much is out of your control.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah.
So that's the goal is, isbasically to provide, uh,
something that, that helps tode-risk the whole, uh,
challenge.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Well, Travis, I can't thank you enough for joining us
today on this podcast episodeand helping us to understand all
the cool stuff that App Harvestis doing.
I mean, this is, this is amazingcutting edge agriculture, and
it's very, very cool.
And so thank you again fortaking the time to join us.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Thanks so much.
We, uh, appreciate anyopportunity to spread the word
because Yeah, we'll, we'll takeall the support we can get.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
So if anyone's interested in seeing the CBS
News video that I was referringto, if you go to Google and just
type in App Harvest, CBS News,it, a link will pop up and
you'll be able to find it, uh,easily enough.
You could find out more aboutApp Harvest on their website,
which is@appharvest.com.
They're also on social mediaplatforms, Instagram and
(28:27):
Twitter.
And I want to thank each of ourlisteners for tuning in today.
Uh, Topcon appreciates all ofour friends in agriculture who
work so tirelessly to put foodon our tables.
And if you enjoyed this episode,remember to, like, share,
subscribe to Topcon TalksAgriculture on Spotify, apple
Podcasts, Amazon Music, orwherever you get your podcasts.
(28:49):
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Hello, and welcome to the Top Con Talks Agriculture
podcast.
On each episode, we discuss andshare topics that are important
to farmers, growers, andagribusiness.
My name is Dan Hendricks, and Iam your host for today.
I serve as a businessdevelopment manager for Topcon
Agriculture, and I get to workwith an amazing group of people
(00:33):
that love agriculture and theylove technology, and they strive
to help growers and farmers findsolutions.
Now, they say that farming islocal, and I, I wholeheartedly
believe that every region of ourcountry and the world does
agriculture just a little bitdifferently.
And because of the uniquesetting and location of the farm
(00:55):
and the crop, and the soil andthe weather, every farm is just
a little bit different.
Working for Topcon, uh, it hasallowed me to travel to
different parts of the UnitedStates and witness firsthand the
diversity in agriculture.
And I live in, uh, the Midwestwhere the predominant crops are
corn and beans.
But I love that I get theopportunity to see a wide
(01:17):
variety of crops and ways ofgrowing our food across this
great country of ours.
A few months ago, a coworkersent me a link to a CBS News
video about a cutting edgecompany in Moorehead, Kentucky
that blew my mind.
Uh, the name of the company iscalled App Harvest, and they are
(01:37):
one of the world's leaders inindoor farming.
They currently have 165 acres ofindoor farming facilities that
are producing a variety ofcrops.
The video is so impressive thatour Topcon podcast team said We
need to do an episode on indoorfarming, and we need to see if
we can get someone from AppHarvest to tell us about what
(01:59):
they are doing.
So that's what today's episodeis all about, the revolution of
indoor farming.
And we have a very special guesttoday from App Harvest.
His name is Travis Parman.
Travis is the ChiefCommunications Officer at App
Harvest.
He's been doing this indoorfarming gig for about two and a
(02:20):
half years.
Interestingly enough, Travisexperience before App Harvest
was in the automotive industry.
And today he is helping AppHarvest grow and expand and
innovate farming practices inthis indoor farming space.
Travis, welcome to the Topconpodcast.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Thanks, Dan.
Happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Uh, we're glad to have you to set the scene.
For our listeners, give us asimple explanation of indoor
farming or c t a, the, thecontrolled environment
agriculture.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, so in a nutshell, these are giant indoor
farms where we can farm, uh, 365days a year.
And so, uh, the controlledenvironment agriculture means
that regardless of theenvironment outside, we create
an internal environment that isoptimal for fruit and vegetable
(03:13):
production.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Most people are familiar with a greenhouse.
Would you say, is it fair to saylike what you guys are doing is
similar to a greenhouse just ona monstrous scale?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, these, we refer to them as high-tech indoor
farms, and that's causegreenhouse can cover such a
spectrum of different types offacilities from low tech all the
way through high tech, uh, thatwe really emphasized that.
But we did a lot of technologytransfer from the Netherlands
because the Dutch had been doingthis for 50 to 70 years.
(03:46):
Uh, and so we just did it at aUS sized scale with the most
current technology.
Um, but the style is actually aVenlo greenhouse style because
we rely on sunshine first, uh,is where we turn to for energy.
And so we've got a glass roofthat's diffused glass that
really, uh, scatters the lightto help each plant get its fair
(04:09):
share.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah.
Well, that's really cool.
Uh, when App Harvest was foundedin 2017, what was the goal in
the vision behind it?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, that was when our C E O Jonathan Webb was
running around with a laptop anda backpack and, you know, maybe
two or three employees.
Uh, and then it scaled prettyquickly.
Uh, he had done, uh, major solarinfrastructure for Department of
Defense facilities, uh, whenthey were trying to switch over
(04:40):
to do more renewable energy.
So all the talk at that point,he was in DC was around, um, uh,
energy security.
And the more he dug into it, herealized, hey, that's an
important issue, but foodsecurity increasingly as much
more important than that.
And so he had been looking forwhat opportunities can I find
(05:01):
that I can take and do somethingat a large scale and help create
industry back in easternKentucky, uh, where they really
need the jobs, where there's anavailable workforce, uh, to
supply the industry and reallycreate an ecosystem that feeds
something larger.
Uh, and so that was where theidea for App Harvest started.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Uh, it's an amazing idea and he, you guys have done
such an amazing job to to launchit.
So a three part question herefor you.
Tell us how many facilities younow have, what crops you're
growing, and where does the foodthat you're growing go?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah, okay.
So we've got four farms.
Um, so we got, uh, we, westarted with our flagship farm
in Morehead, Kentucky.
And so then we expanded, uh,particularly last year, opening
up three more farms.
So in Somerset, Kentucky, we'vegot a strawberry farm that also,
uh, seasonally does cucumbers.
(06:00):
We've got in Richmond, Kentucky,uh, a farm that basically is a
copy paste of our Moorhead farmthat focuses on tomatoes.
Uh, and so combined Richmond andMoorhead can do about 1.5
million tomato plants at a time.
Uh, and then we also have inBerea, Kentucky, a salad greens
(06:22):
facility.
And so that can do about 30, 35million lettuce plants, uh, at a
time.
Uh, and that's a touchlesssystem with autonomous
harvesting.
And so those are our four, uh,and all of the different types
of, uh, crops that we're growingthere, we expect to continue to
diversify our crop portfolio alittle bit more for, um,
(06:46):
controlled environmentagriculture.
Uh, it's vine crops that tend todo best.
So, uh, another, another areathat we might look at in
addition to the, the, thetomatoes.
The berries, uh, would be thingsalong the lines of, of peppers,
uh, and, and other wine cropslike that.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And these crops that you're growing, the tomatoes,
uh, the lettuce strawberriesare, are they going to grocery
stores?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yes.
So we sell through, we've got adistributor called Master Arti
Produce, which is one of the top, um, greenhouse grown producers
, um, in the US anddistributors.
And so we sell through themunder a number of their brands
under a number of private labelbrands to a combination of the
top 25 grocery stores, uh,restaurants and food service
(07:33):
outlets.
So a couple of our biggestcustomers right now are places
like Wendy's and Kroger.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Okay.
So I'm probably eating yourtomatoes or have maybe for
lunch.
And I had no idea that they weregrown indoors.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Depends on where you are.
Um, cause we, that's one of thebenefits of being an Appalachia
is we are within 70% of the USpopulation in a day's drive.
And so that shortens your foodmiles, which is not only more
economical, but it's also moresustainable.
Uh, and you're able to pickthose, uh, crops when they're
(08:09):
riper fresh in some cases havebeen picked, packed, and on
store shelves within 24 hours.
So one of the reasons that coalwas so popular, uh, was so, uh,
successful in Appalachia, wasn'tjust that they had the coal
deposits.
There were other areas that hadthe deposits, but it's cause it,
they were so close to majormarkets.
(08:30):
Uh, and so that's a real benefitwith perishable goods.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
So talk to me about some of the main advantages of
indoor farming compared to atraditional way of farming or
growing these types ofvegetables
Speaker 2 (08:44):
In today's environment.
With the climate continuing tochange, um, one of the big
advantages is having a, a, aclimate that you know, that you
can rely on, one that you areare controlling.
Uh, and so that's a majorbenefit.
Um, also, um, using less water.
Um, for a long time we've farmed, uh, as if water really isn't
(09:06):
of any consequence because it'salways been readily available,
uh, basically at a zero cost.
And increasingly that's not thecase anymore, especially in some
of our most traditional growingareas.
So, uh, this type of farminglets you use about 90% less
water than open fieldagriculture.
You're also, uh, able to do veryprecision dosing of nutrients.
(09:29):
So you're using a fraction ofthe fertilizer, uh, that would
you would use in some otherareas.
Uh, and so those are some of thekey benefits also, um, just
using a smaller portion of land.
Um, cause we can get about 30times the productivity per
square acre, uh, in ourcontrolled environment versus
(09:50):
open field farming.
Uh, and so you get, uh, a, asynergy there of just being able
to be efficient, these tomatoplants.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yes.
Did you grow up growingtomatoes?
Yes.
Ok.
Your best.
How much of a tomato whispererare you?
How tall do your plants get?
How many productive, um, trussesdo you have on them?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Um, not very good.
Um, we usually end up buyingthem from the guy, uh, down the
road because we burn ours up and, uh, it, it just ends up being
a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah.
So these vines can get to beabout 30, 35 feet tall with 2025
productive trusses on them.
They're indeterminate and sothey grow upward.
So we're not a vertical farm,which stacks cause we rely on
the sunlight as much as we can.
Um, but you do get that benefitof being able to really grow a
(10:48):
large quantity in a relativelysmall area, which can make it
really productive for packingand shipping out, uh, harvesting
, um, uh, all of the crop carein general in a, in a
concentrated area.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Well, we've talked in previous episodes of this
podcast about, uh, the future ofagriculture and the, the need to
do more with less.
And it sounds like that'sexactly what you guys are doing,
uh, here.
And you, you touched on autonomya little bit, but, uh, talk to
me more about the autonomousfarming techniques in your
(11:22):
facility and why they'reimportant.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah.
So Berea is our, um, mostsophisticated in terms of
autonomy, which can help a lotin the area of food safety,
especially when it comes tothings like lettuces.
Um, which, uh, LEDs can be pronein an open field environment,
uh, to collecting disease.
You have an animal run throughor fly across, uh, that can drop
(11:47):
, uh, debris, you know, intothat, that gets collected.
Um, or things that are morewaterborne in general, uh, can
tend to carry, uh, more, moredisease and, and plant issues
along with it.
Uh, and so the, the lessinterference you have, um, with
being able to pass along, um,certain types of disease or
(12:09):
viruses or bacteria, uh, thebetter that can be.
Uh, so in the case of Bria withour leafy greens, um, basically
everything from filling thetroughs to, to seeding them, to
them going into a germinationphase, um, the whole crop cycle
is about 21 to 28 days for that.
So they basically grow towardthe guillotine, is what I call
(12:32):
it.
You remember those, uh, oldcommercials that, um, where you
attached a cutting device to theend of your vacuum cleaner and
to, for a haircut called aflowbee?
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yes.
That, that's similar to whathappens.
The computer knows to dowhatever salad mix it needs.
I need to pull this trough, thistray from this area.
And so it does the mixautomatically based on the
computer program.
And it pulls, uh, like about a16 foot trough, um, into the
guillotine area.
(13:03):
And there's a little suctiondevice that pulls it upward, uh,
and then snips it, and then putsit on a conveyor, does the mix.
We do the washing, uh, and the,the drying and the packaging all
on site.
So the first time a human reallyinteracts with the product is
when it's already been packed,uh, and a, uh, fork truck is
(13:25):
going through to put it on the,the, the transportation to get
it to the grocery store.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Now, did App Harvest have to develop most of this
technology or adapt it fromother industries?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
We have worked to adapt it, but we've tried not to
reinvent the wheel, uh, where wedidn't have to.
Uh, so, um, again, a lot of thiswe have been able to do
technology transfer from theNetherlands, um, and then just
really size it, like reallyscale it up for, for us
proportions.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
So, Travis, tell me, how does this technology play a
role in combating the strainedfood supply chain?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah.
So, uh, increasingly it'sdifficult for farmers to know
what growing season they'regoing to have, when it's gonna
start, when it's gonna end,whether they're gonna be
affected by extreme wind events,by extreme heat, by drought, by
flooding.
So having a controlledenvironment helps stabilize your
(14:26):
ability to produce and it helpsto create more reliable quantity
and quality.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
And I watched an interview with your C E o
Jonathan Webb and he stated thathe believes in producing a
product that's good for thepeople and good for the planet.
Is that your mission and the waythat you guys are investing in
the future of food?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, the United Nation reportssuggest we're gonna need to
produce 50 to 70% more food tomeet the needs of a growing
population by 2050.
Well, 70% of all fresh wateralready is dedicated to
agriculture.
So that means we're gonna haveto grow far more with far less.
(15:07):
So, absolutely.
We believe every form ofagriculture is necessary and
we're gonna need every tool inthe arsenal to meet that
challenge.
And so this is one way to helpproduce more food with fewer
resources.
And it's not good for all croptypes, but for vine crops, uh,
you can be incredibly efficientwith it.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Now when I watch the cbs uh, video, uh, it, it was,
it was incredible to see all ofit working and it was working as
a fine oiled machine, but, uh,I'm sure in the early days there
were some, uh, hurdles that youhad to get over.
So can you tell me what weresome of the big challenges that
you guys ran into when you firststarted trying to do this?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, and I would say , um, what we have said is that
we estimate that depending onthe type of farm it is, uh, it
takes about 24 to 36 months forthem really to ramp up.
So for example, Morehead is nowin its third season of
harvesting.
And so we're seeing that our keyperformance indicators are
(16:11):
looking much more like we wantthem to, uh, with three seasons
of experience.
Uh, and so I, it's really, Ithink ramping up to the scale,
uh, and just learning, um, that,you know, we've hired a lot of
local folks, uh, and gettingthem trained so those crop care
specialists stay on top of thetasks.
(16:32):
Um, cause it's really all aboutthe plant and plant health.
And so little things like the deleafing and the pruning and the
suffering that are required,staying on top of all of those
issues, um, for a plant that isgonna produce for about 10
months outta the year iscritical.
(16:53):
Cause otherwise you have acascade effect.
And so I think that's one of thebig things we've learned is just
staying on top of all of thehygiene and care for those
plants so that they'll beproductive and have optimal
health all the way through theseason.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Speak to the economic benefits of indoor farming,
both, both for your companygrowing it and, and for
consumers.
How's, how's the economics playout?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
So there's a lot of demand for us grown.
Um, and from the, the our endbuyers, uh, the grocery stores,
the restaurants, they like thereliability of the quality and
the quantity, uh, that they canget.
And they like shortening thosesupply chains.
(17:42):
Um, so there's a real benefitthere as well.
So the reduced amount ofspoilage that we chatted a
little bit earlier, uh, ishelpful.
Uh, you wind up with longershelf life as a result of that
too.
Uh, so all of those things helpmargins all around.
Uh, and then if you can create agood, reliable product that has
(18:04):
a name brand on it, then peoplecan know, uh, that they can go
to that and that it's gonna haveconsistent, reliable, quality,
taste, texture, nutrition, uh,and so building that up over
time, uh, can be really helpfultoo.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I learned that Martha Stewart is on your board of
directors, uh, for App Harvest.
So tell us how she serves as amentor and a resource for your
organization.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Yeah, so Martha, really there's, uh, there there
are fewer people that you canthrow out there that, that
people know, you know betterright,
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Than
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Her Yeah.
As an authority in food, uh, andthe home in general.
Uh, and you know, she also pullszero punches.
So if you put something in frontof her that is not up to her
standards or is not the qualitythat she thinks she's gonna let
you know about it.
Uh, so she really has helpedcoach Jonathan, uh, in many
(19:03):
regards.
He was in his boots the firsttime, but we had our first
harvest and sent her sampletomatoes worried about what she
would think about them, but shegave them a thumbs up.
She put'em on her Instagramaccount, she cooked with them.
And now when she comes intoKentucky to visit, um, a lot of
people don't necessarily want totravel with fresh produce back
(19:26):
home, but boy, she does.
She will tell every box underand then you'll see them in her
Instagram feed on what she hascooked with them over the next
week.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Uh, that's excellent.
So talk to me about what indoorfarming means for the future of
agriculture.
A and let's do that.
And then let's talk about whatit means for the future of the
climate.
Tell me where you see thisgoing.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
So we really see controlled environment
agriculture as needing to be thethird wave of sustainable
infrastructure.
If you consider the first onebeing renewable energy, the
second one being thepopularization, the
mainstreaming of electricvehicles.
We see controlled environmentagriculture needing to be that
third wave.
(20:11):
Um, cause we've gotten the pointwhere, um, based on weather
changing, it's just toounpredictable, um, for our food
supply.
And people started to see that alittle bit during Covid, uh,
when grocery store shelves wentempty and they started to see
how short those food supplylines really mm-hmm.
(20:32):
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
We also, um, about a year, year and a half into
Covid, we had that, um, icestorm that dipped way into Texas
and it prevented a number oftransfer trucks from being able
to haul produce from Texasacross the border.
And grocery store shelves wentemptier.
And so it made it more top ofmind for people.
(20:57):
So right now, the U S D Aestimates that we rely on about
two thirds of our fresh fruitsand vegetables being imported.
So there's a way that we cancreate US jobs, um, doing this
in the us doing it sustainably,doing it economically.
(21:18):
Uh, and so that's, that's wherewe see it headed as increasingly
, uh, leveraging more controlledenvironment agriculture
throughout the us Right now it'sestimated that the US has about
6,000 acres total of controlledenvironment agriculture compared
to Europe, which has more than500,000.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Wow.
So they're, they're ahead of usin, in this realm.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah.
Uh, it really started in theNetherlands, and that's where we
transferred a lot of ourtechnology from.
And they did it because duringWorld War ii, their supply lines
got cut and so they werelandlocked and a good portion of
their population starved todeath.
And they made it a nationalpriority and they said, we will
always be able to feed ourpeople.
(22:03):
Uh, and they developedgreenhouse technology to be able
to do that.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
Right, right.
Well, it, it's, it's very wise,it's very smart.
Now it's my understanding thatyour company sponsors a high
school AgTech education program.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, I mean, to have a future of farming, you've
gotta have
And agriculture doesn'tnecessarily excite a lot of
kids.
Uh, and especially where we arein eastern Kentucky, a good
number of them come from smallfamily farms where it's really
(22:41):
hard to make a living on them.
So you ask'em if they wanna doagriculture, if they wanna be a
farmer, and they're like, noway.
I've seen how difficult it is.
I have zero interest in that.
So we've sponsored, um, 12 hightech, um, farm classrooms, uh,
where we teach'em hydroponics.
(23:02):
And so once they learn, Hey,there's a high tech approach to
this where I could farm from myiPhone, from my iPad.
And so we have these retrofittedshipping containers that they
can grow in year round.
And just from one shippingcontainer, which is like, you
know, roughly the size of like,like half the back of a transfer
truck, you can get theequivalent of about three to
(23:23):
five open acres, uh, of, uh, ofagricultural land there.
And so, uh, it really isstarting to excite a number of
them.
And so they're starting topursue, uh, educations in
agriculture.
Some of'em have started to comeback and intern with us.
Uh, and so that's what we'retrying to do to build that
(23:45):
ecosystem here.
Cause we'd really like there tobe, uh, an AgTech hub in the US
outta Central Appalachia.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
So you've taken the, the traditional farming, uh,
methods and then showing'em how,like you said, with the iPhone
generation, how you can mergethose two and how you're, you're
, you're doing agriculture in a,in a high-tech way.
That's fascinating.
Now also, tell me about thesocial mission at App Harvest.
You spoke a a little bit to alittle bit about that to me
(24:16):
earlier.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah.
App Harvest is organized as apublic benefit corporation, and
were also certified as a B Corp,uh, which means that there, we,
we have a very defined missionand purpose.
Uh, and so in addition tofarming more sustainably, uh, we
also have a goal of providinggood jobs in Appalachia.
(24:39):
Uh, and so that all workstogether, um, to, to try to
create something that can belong lasting and that really can
be generational here, that canprovide, uh, a good number of
jobs for the region where we'redrawing in folks who want to
study, do the r and d that'sbehind controlled environment
agriculture, who are interestedin doing the software, the
(25:02):
robotics that help thisindustry.
So everything from the Crop Carespecialists all the way through
the business behind AgTech toreally become an international
resource here out of the us.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Well, I commend you guys for, you know, being
homegrown and, you know, um,American jobs and American
ingenuity and being able to makethis, you know, self-sustaining.
That's, it's incredible.
Let's talk about goals here alittle bit.
Like what, what are your goalsthis year at App Harvest?
And then tell me, you know, 10years from now, where do you,
(25:39):
where do you guys want to be 20years from now?
Where do you wanna be?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, so we're transitioning right now from,
you know, we've done majorinvestment in infrastructure
going from, uh, the first farmto opening three additional
farms last year.
Now we're with that four FarmNetwork.
We're focused on coreoperations.
And so we've got to make thesefarms sing, make them as
(26:05):
productive as possible, ramp upthe production, ramp up the
revenue coming from those.
Uh, and then we have aspiredfrom the beginning to have a 12
farm network.
So once we get these profitable,once we're able to, to get
additional investment intoexpanding the network, that's
where we go from here.
(26:25):
So eventually we see being able,uh, to just continue to expand
that network so that we'recontinuing to provide a greater
portion of us grown fruits andvegetables so that we can
decrease that reliance onimports.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
So efficiency is, is a big focus.
Not only is the whole oroperation efficiency efficient,
but right now what you have,you're trying to just make it
like a well-oiled machine andmake it work, maximize it as
much as you can.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, the more reliable, uh,that we can make, uh, fruit and
vegetable production, you know,so that it's more like, uh, a
manufacturing type environment,um, with that type of
reliability and consistency, um,you know, being able to predict
your quantity and quality isreally the holy grail and
(27:21):
agriculture.
Um, and that's what'sincreasingly challenged, given,
especially weather changes thesedays, right?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Um, so much is out of your control.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah.
So that's the goal is, isbasically to provide, uh,
something that, that helps tode-risk the whole, uh,
challenge.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Well, Travis, I can't thank you enough for joining us
today on this podcast episodeand helping us to understand all
the cool stuff that App Harvestis doing.
I mean, this is, this is amazingcutting edge agriculture, and
it's very, very cool.
And so thank you again fortaking the time to join us.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Thanks so much.
We, uh, appreciate anyopportunity to spread the word
because Yeah, we'll, we'll takeall the support we can get.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
So if anyone's interested in seeing the CBS
News video that I was referringto, if you go to Google and just
type in App Harvest, CBS News,it, a link will pop up and
you'll be able to find it, uh,easily enough.
You could find out more aboutApp Harvest on their website,
which is@appharvest.com.
They're also on social mediaplatforms, Instagram and
(28:27):
Twitter.
And I want to thank each of ourlisteners for tuning in today.
Uh, Topcon appreciates all ofour friends in agriculture who
work so tirelessly to put foodon our tables.
And if you enjoyed this episode,remember to, like, share,
subscribe to Topcon TalksAgriculture on Spotify, apple
Podcasts, Amazon Music, orwherever you get your podcasts.
(28:49):
Please tell your friends aboutus.
We'd love for you to followTopcon Agriculture on social
media.
Thanks again for joining ustoday.
We'll see you next time.
Go out and make it a great day.
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Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com