Mental Health and Farmers: A Growing Issue | S07E05

It’s a tragic truth. Research from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reveals farmers are twice as likely as people in other occupations to die by suicide. As part of May’s mental health awareness month, you’ll hear from author Jessica Peters as she discusses key factors that impact the mental health of farmers. Learn what you should watch for.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Hello and welcome to the Topcon Talks Agriculture
Podcast. On each episode, wediscuss and share topics that
are important to farmers,growers, and agribusiness. My
name is Dan Hendricks, and I amyour host for today. I serve as
the Senior Business DevelopmentManager for Topcon Agriculture.
And I get to work with anamazing team of talented

(00:35):
individuals who loveagriculture. They enjoy
technology, and they strive tohelp farmers and growers find
solutions. Some of you may knowthat the month of May is mental
health awareness month. So wewanted to take an episode today
and focus on how mental healthis important and relevant to

(00:55):
growers, farmers, and those inthe dairy industry. We want to
encourage openness andtransparency to this very
important topic because we wantpeople to reach out and get
help if they are struggling. Weall know that farmers are high
risk . Farming is hard work,farming is stressful. Farming

(01:17):
can also be lonely. So we wantto have an honest conversation
today about the impact thatfarming can have on mental
health. It's an important topicthat is often ignored and not
openly discussed. I'm excitedto welcome Jessica Peters to
the Topcon podcast. Jessicagrew up in Pennsylvania on her

(01:40):
parents' dairy farm with hertwo brothers and lots of Jersey
milk cows. She grew up activein four H and is a farm
advocate and author. Jessica isa graduate of Penn State
University and now runs SpruceRow Farm in Meadville,
Pennsylvania. She deeply lovesthe animals on her dairy and

(02:02):
the ones that are under hercare. And Jessica is going to
shed some light on the work shehas done regarding mental
health with dairy workers.
Jessica, thanks so much forjoining us on today's episode.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Thanks for having me. I think , um, I I always
feel pretty honored to get totalk about this topic cuz it's
such an important topic to talkabout.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yes, it definitely is. And , uh, we are glad that
you're here and glad that wecan spend some time kind of
sharing and , um, beingenlightened by the things that
you, you are gonna share withus. So let's start off by
having you tell me a little bitabout your farm background.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Okay, yep . I , um, now live and work on the farm
that I grew up on. I am luckyenough to be able to do that
with , um, I actually own thefarm with my parents and my
younger brother. I also have anolder brother who actually
lives in Florida and works fornasa.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Oh , wow.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
Okay . Which I think is a whole, that's like a whole
nother podcast topic. .
Um, generally, I, we alwaysjoke that we don't mention him
because once people find out Ihave a brother who works for
nasa, they're kind of like, oh,you're a farmer and he works
for nasa. How did that workout? Right,

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Right. Yeah. I I would think there would also be
some like rocket science jokesthat you throw in there every
now and then, but , you

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Didn't need to bring that up. It's like, it's like
the heel of our family, likeRight. You know, oh, you're not
a rocket scientist. And theninevitably my brother's always
like, well, I kind of am. We'relike, nah ,

Speaker 1 (03:26):
. Right.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
That's funny. I didn't need that.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Uh , yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Um, but yeah, I , I grew up here and we're, we milk
around 250 jersey cows, which ,um, for those of you who don't
know , dairy Jersey is thesecond most popular cow, but
they're also only like 8% ofall of the cows in the country.
So we're a very distant secondto the big black and white
Holsteins. Um, but I do lovethem. Um, we also do all of our

(03:53):
own crop work. We're planting ,uh, planting corn right now.
Uh, we do, we get a little helpwith harvesting, but we grow
all of our own crops, so wetend to stay pretty busy here
in Pennsylvania

Speaker 1 (04:03):
. I bet. And as you were telling us , uh,
earlier, before we startedrecording, since it is planting
season, I'm sure things arevery, very busy around there
right now.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Very, very busy.
We've had a good , um, goodstart though. It's not warm,
but it's been dry, which ispretty rare for us, so,

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah. Well, good.
Well good. Hopefully

Speaker 2 (04:21):
We'll get it in quickly.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
So you are a contributing author to Hordes ,
dairyman and otherpublications. Tell me what
inspired you to begin writingas a farm advocate?

Speaker 2 (04:33):
Honestly , um, after college I actually spent two
years milking cows in NewZealand. Hmm . Uh , solely,
solely for the reason I wasn'tready to come home yet. I knew
I was coming home to the farm.
Right. But in the nicestpossible way, if you know dairy
farming, you know that when youcome home to it, you are stuck
here. There are entire weekswhere I don't leave the farm.

(04:53):
Um, and uh, so I wanted toleave the farm for a bit before
I came back here. And with mydairy science club, my senior
year of college, we actuallytook a trip to New Zealand and
I kind of connected withsomeone there and went back and
worked for a few years. When Icame home from New Zealand,
actually, I still felt I have,there are dreamers and doers in

(05:16):
the world and most farmers aredoers. We wanna do things with
our hands. And I'm not sayingI'm not a doer, but I'm very
much a dreamer and I know it. Ihave quite the imagination and
I was happy being home with thefarm and working with the cows
and my family, but I wasmissing something. And I think
that's around the time thatadvocates, specifically dairy

(05:36):
advocates were becoming biggeron Facebook. And I decided to
start a Facebook page and, youknow, I just wrote what I felt
and what we were doing. Andhonestly, at some point I
didn't wanna become a writermore than that. And actually at
some point I was contacted byhordes and they just, I
suppose, liked the way Ipresented things and asked me

(05:57):
if I wanted to write , um,biweekly for their online blog,
which is what I do.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah. So, so it kind of took you by surprise. I
mean, you were kind of writingwhat it may sound like maybe
therapeutic for you, and thenall of a sudden you were, you
just kind of surprised with howwell it took off.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
I was very surprised. And I didn't realize
how much I enjoyed writinguntil they asked me to write
for them, you know, and theygive me free reign , they tell
me to write whatever topic Iwanna write. And , um, it's
just been, it's been a lot offun. And like you said, it's
been really therapeutic for me,you know, as a place to get my
thoughts and opinions and ideasout and to get feedback from

(06:35):
other people as well.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah. Well that's awesome that you have like a
another outlet, you know, tokind of compliment the, the
busyness of everything thatgoes on around the dairy.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
Oh , I was gonna say with the topic of today's , um,
podcast with mental health,that's helped my mental health
a lot. Having that outlet to beable to talk about things.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Well that's good.
That's really cool. So yeah,let's, let's dive into the
mental health on the farm.
Recent data from the US Centersof Disease Control and
Prevention indicated thatfarmers are twice as likely as
people in other occupations todie by suicide. What, in your
opinion, are some of the uniquestressors that farmers are
facing that contribute to theirspecific experiences with

(07:16):
mental health?

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Um, they're , they're, I honestly, they're
pretty obvious. And yet alsothey're kind of not ,
you know, we deal witheverything the average American
does. You know, I mean, we arenot, I think farming has given
this image of wholesome peoplesitting around the dinner table
every night eating your dinner.
And , uh, very traditional. AndI'm not saying we aren't any of
those things, but we also dealwith the same big things other

(07:40):
people do. You know, we dealwith cancer in our family or
drug addictions or , um, youknow, personal relationship
issues. Working with yourfamily is not easy. And a lot
of farming families are workingtogether day in day. I mean,
it's not just working together,it's basically living together.
And that's not easy to do. Um,you know, but then on top of

(08:03):
that, you have to throw in workcompletely at the mercy of the
weather. Right. And , um,dairy, dairy farming
specifically as far as milkprices and markets, we have no
control over the price of ourproduct. You know, we have one
of the most perishable productson the market. We can't hold
milk, you know, like, likegrain farmers can hold grain
until the market, the pricecomes up a bit. We can't do

(08:24):
that if they don't come pick upmy milk today. I can't milk my
cows tonight.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Right. So you have this constant process of the
milk being produced that youhave to attend to, the cows are
producing the milk, and yet youhave a very short shelf life.
And then you have all theseother things that are out of
your control, like you said,like weather and prices and,
and

Speaker 2 (08:43):
You just, you just feel like you don't have as
much of a say as you should,you know, for an industry that
feeds the world. And I, Ireally, I hate saying that cuz
that's not what consumers wannahear. It makes us, makes me
feel like I'm trying to show mysuperiority in some way. I see
. But it's true. Farmers dofeed people. Right?

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah. There , there's definitely truth to
that.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Right. And for an industry that does that , um,
to not have much control overhow we do it is, is really ,
uh, can be really debilitatingto be honest.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
And and are there certain times of the year or
certain periods of the yearthat are, that increase the
stress on a dairy and chargeand , and , and cause like more
mental health challenges?

Speaker 2 (09:31):
I'm laughing a little bit because I mean,
obviously planting and harvestare always stressful cuz you're
trying to plant and thenharvest all the feed your cows
are gonna eat for the next yearin two weeks to a month. And
that's a very stressful time.
Um, but I'm laughing a littlebit because we always say
things like, you know, in themiddle of summer when you're,

(09:51):
you know, every three weekswe're making hay and there's
really not much of a break. Andyou think, oh, I have to do
this product and project in mycalf barn and I'll get to it in
the winter when things slowdown, , it's not a
dairy farm especially thingsnever slow down.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
You don't slow down, you know , it just keeps
coming.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Cav year , you cav year round , so roughly every
day we have a new calf. Somedays you have six new calves,
you know, or you'll go a weekwithout one and you're , you
have to milk the cows twice aday. You have to feed
everything twice a day. Youhave to clean everything twice
a day. You know, it's, it's ,it can be very monotonous and
yet you do something differentevery day . Dairy farming feels
like the biggest oxymoron inthe world.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
But it's true. It's also true.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah. Now , do you find that these stressors with
dairy farming affect men andwomen farmers differently? Or
does it, does it hit allgenders the same?

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Oh yeah. I think farming in general, let me say
the stress of farming I thinkhits everybody the same. But I,
I will admit that there aresome issues within the industry
that probably hit women alittle harder. Uh, you know, I
, there are in , in all aspectsof the agricultural industry,

(11:03):
there are more women managingand owning and being farmers.
Uh, but the discrimination ofthat is still there. You know,
I'm, I'm pretty active onsocial media and talking about
what we do and sharing ourfarm. And I, I , I do some
tractor work, but that's not myfull-time job. Cows are my job

(11:25):
and it, it blows my mind. Someof my friends who their job is
the tractor work on their farmsthat get the comments. Like
literally, I just read one theother day that literally said,
sweetheart, you should be inthe kitchen delivering lunch to
the farmers , not on thetractor driving it . You know?
And even, even, even if thatdidn't personally bother her,

(11:48):
just the fact that there arestill people out there saying
that. Right. Um, yeah, it'sjust, it's ridiculous. Sorry. I
was gonna say, there arefactors that I think affect
women more so and differently,but the farming stress in
general is just stress foreverybody. You know, you talked
about earlier how hard farmingis, well, another word I'd use

(12:08):
I think is isolating. Hmm . Youknow, being, being such a small
part of the population, the,the rest of it, and a lot of my
friends , um, that still livearound here don't understand
farming. Right . And it's, it'sa hard thing to understand if
you're not in it. Right. Um ,it's a hard thing to relate to.
If you're not very close to it,it's almost impossible to

(12:30):
relate to mm-hmm. , um, you know, actually this
is kind of a silly story, butin high school so many times,
so many times and right afterhigh school I had to cancel
plans with people because, Idunno , a cow couch or the skid
litter broke down and we didn'tget chores done or just
something crazy would happen.
And then you get to the pointwhere people just stop inviting
you to things. Yeah . And itfeels awful. Like, you know,

(12:54):
they want you to come, but youcancel. I understand it, it
sucks when I say, oh no, Ican't make the movie. Right.
This cow just caved and amilker called off and I'm gonna
be here till midnight. Sure.
It's life or death. That soundssuper dramatic and I know how
that sounds. But we are dealingwith living, breathing things
and sometimes, sometimes for aweek straight, every day

(13:16):
there's a life or deathsituation and I can't help
that. Um, and it wasn't untilmy friends started having kids
that I started kind of equatingmy situation and years past
situations to that, that theyrealized like they just wanna
stay home and hang out withtheir kids. Well, sometimes I

(13:36):
just wanted to stay home andhang out with my cows. You
know, it's really hard toequate that. Um, but back to
when I started talking aboutmental health, that was a giant
tangent. Um, it was 2016 and Iwas just feeling the overall
discontent of mm-hmm .
fellow farmers .
And I'm generally a person whohas the words, you know, it

(13:59):
might take me a little bit, butusually I know what to say and
I know how I wanna say it.
Mm-hmm. . And formonths I just felt restless
about it. Hmm . Like in mymind, you know, like I couldn't
put my finger on what it was. Iknew something was off. And um,
finally, I , I mean I've toldthis story before, but finally
I sat in my feet alley and Imade a video that I called it
Dear Struggling Farmer. And Ijust talked about what it feels

(14:20):
like to struggle. And I wastalking to farmers and you were
being honest. Typically I was,and I was typically was talking
to consumers, but I was talkingright to farmers and I was
like, look, I know how you'refeeling cuz I'm feeling it too.
I can't fix it cuz I can't fixhow I'm feeling. But just
knowing that you're not alonein those feelings. And it was a
really vulnerable video and Isent it to hordes and I was

(14:42):
like, look, I know this isn'twhat I do, but this needs to be
seen, I think. And I sent itimmediately cause I knew I'd
completely lose my nerve. Andultimately they published it
and posted it and I got oh , somany messages from people just
saying, holy crap, I feel thesame thing. Like, but I, you
know, you don't know you'refeeling it until you hear
someone else say it out loud.

(15:03):
And you certainly would nothave admitted it until someone
else was brave enough to say itfirst.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Sure. So a lot of people really connected with
the honesty that

Speaker 2 (15:12):
You so many people and Yeah . Not , it started out
as just farmers mostlymessaging and being like, oh my
God, I just, this is exactlyhow I feel. And then it became
like, partners of farmers . Uh, one very specific one I
remember is this girl messagedme and she goes, my boyfriend
is a beef farmer. And , um,we've been, you know, our
relationship has been reallystrained lately. And I didn't

(15:34):
understand it until I watchedher video and realized this is
how he feels, you know, and Igot a lot of those from people
who didn't grow up inagriculture and, you know,
they, they don't necessarilyhelp on the farm, but they're a
adjacent and they're like, Ihad no idea this was how my
brother felt or husband felt,or wife or girlfriend, whatever
felt. Um, and it , it was just, uh, like I said, I had been

(15:58):
feeling the general overalldiscontent, but once I put that
video out there and actuallygot the feedback, it wasn't
just therapeutic for me. It wasvalidating for some reason. We
feel like we , our feelingsneed to be validated. And , uh,
I think that's what it did forme and all the people who

(16:18):
watched it. Like, you havethose sad feelings or those
depressing feelings and youthink something's wrong with
you. Like, I chose this life, Icomplain about it a lot. Like I
just, I just milked five daysin a row, every single milking,
and I'm exhausted and I've beencomplaining about that for 24
hours, but I chose this

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
. So to have that feeling validated of
yes, you chose this, yes, youlove this life, but it's still
really freaking hard. And , um,you know , you're allowed to
feel bad about that sometimes.
Nobody loves their life everyday . And I really hate that
quote that if you love what youdo, you won't work a day in
your life. Bull crap ,because I work, yeah . I work

(17:02):
every single day and I lovethis. But let's not pretend
it's easy.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
Right. And , and you can love what you do, but it
doesn't mean you always love itwhile you're doing it. Is that
kind of what you're saying ?
Nobody

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Loves ev Yeah.
Nobody loves anything Everysingle day for every single
moment. My brother andsister-in-law adopted twins
last year, twin boys, andthey're 18 months old. And I,
you know, they do love themevery day , but they don't like
them every single day

Speaker 1 (17:29):
Sure, yeah.
As parents, we can definitely ,uh, understand and relate to
that. Yeah. So you get that. Soit sounds like, you know, you
talked about you, you hit anerve with that. Um, you
sharing that there is a realisolation and a lot of people
could really relate to thatisolation. So let , let me ask,

(17:50):
are there unique signs ofdepression or isolation on a
farm that can be difficult forpeople to detect?

Speaker 2 (17:58):
That's a hard question because everybody is
so different. I don't think weknow ourselves as well as we
think we do. Does that makesense? I I moved to New Zealand
, um, twice right aftercollege. And the second time I
went, I lived by myself, spenta lot of time by myself and
learned a lot about who I am,the things I like, the things.

(18:20):
I don't like the things we, wetend to play to society and
culture. And that , um, , this is embarrassing to
admit, but in high school Idenied liking country music for
such a long time becauseeveryone always assumed I loved
country music because I was afarm girl . And I didn't want

(18:42):
to fall into that stereotype,which is now I realize is
stupid. If I like countrymusic, why don't I just listen
to country music? People whofollow me on social media know
that I will belt out Disneysongs anytime of the day.
Mm-hmm . at thetop of my lungs, you know? But
10 years ago I thought that wasan embarrassing thing to do, so
I didn't do it. So I, I thinkwe don't know ourselves the way

(19:07):
we think we do. And , um, oneof the things I had heard to
do, and I was able to do itactually eventually , um, is
make a list of warning signsfor yourself. So for example,
my biggest warning sign is ifI'm not listening to music and

(19:30):
it doesn't bother me, I knowsomething's wrong.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
And what do you mean by bother you?

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Um, I don't laugh .
Silence . I don't knowif that's a good thing or a bad
thing, but if I'm milking cowsand the music's not on , um,
something like the other day wehave a , a new worker, he is
been here just a couple monthsand he came in and I didn't
have my phone connected to theBluetooth speaker yet. And he's
like, Jess, I don't hear yourmusic, are you okay? Like,
genuinely concerned .

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
Um , and it , and it turned like it was just I'd
milked the night before till1:00 AM and I was tired and my
allergies were really bad, Ijust wasn't feeling good. Um,
but if I go a few days or up toa week and I haven't missed
listening to music, Ipersonally know something's
wrong with me, like I'm off.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Right. So that's kind of a warning

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Sign to address and work on. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
Are there any others?

Speaker 2 (20:24):
That's the biggest one for me, to be honest. Um, I
also I've learned aboutmyself when I start to get too
stressed, I have a very shorttemper , um, about dumb things.
Uh, but, but that the musicthing is the main one for me.
But that's not an , I will saythat's not an easy list to

(20:45):
make. Like I said, you reallyhave to to know yourself,

Speaker 1 (20:47):
Right. Know yourself and know your triggers.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
Also pay attention to your warning signs. Um, and
the other thing I was gonna sayabout detecting, whether I , I
mean I could list off this ,the signs everyone gives you,
like if there's a giant changein mood, you know, for example,
if someone constantly posts onsocial media and then all of a
sudden they have it posted in amonth, check in on them , um,

(21:12):
isolating themselves , uh, justa general like, like sleeping a
lot technically are , uh,typically kind of can lead to
signs of depression. I mean,you can find those lists on the
internet.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
Right.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
To be honest. Right . But , um, I i it's , it's
such a personal thing.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
Do you find that farmers kind of have a fixit
yourself attitude on the farmthat kind of makes them not
want to , uh, reach out to gethelp? Or like you said people
think, well, farmers all lovecountry music, but do you think
sometimes farmers are like,well all farmers are supposed
to be tough and not need anyhelp and suck it up so

(21:55):
therefore they don't reach outand get help? Is that true?

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Um, oh, 100% . Rub some dirt on it. You know, you
don't share your problems likeyou get hurt. Just rub some
dirt on it and keep going. Andeven if your finger's dangling
off, you finish planting thefield, then you go to the ER
after, you know, and mentalhealth is even worse because
nobody wants to admit tofeeling that way. Um, you're
embarrassed to be strugglingmentally. And that's not just

(22:23):
farmers. I think that'severyone. Right . Um , and one
of the distinctions someonemade to me that I absolutely
love is mental health is notmental illness. We think if
we're depressed or we're havingbad thoughts, like we're crazy
and people are gonna label usas crazy. And you know, that's
not the same. Like if , if yougo to the gym every day and

(22:47):
work out , you're working outto keep physical illness away,
working on your mental healthkeeps mental illnesses away.
And what really drives me crazyabout farming is , um, for
example, last year I had afriend on social media who they
decided they were in a goodplace with planting and they

(23:10):
had, you know, the forecastsweather was good. So they
decided to take Sundays off.
And the anger and almost hatethey got for doing that from
other farmers was pathetic.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Hmm .

Speaker 2 (23:27):
You know, the, the mantra in farming is you, you
work until you drop.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Right.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Well, I don't, I mean, you and you hear the
phrase, I wanna die with myboots on and, you know, I'd
like to die with my boots on,but not like that , you
know, like ,

Speaker 1 (23:43):
So do you think then when you combine stress with
this kind of independentattitude that farmers have that
you know that they can do atall and they're not allowed to
complain? Is that a recipe fortrouble?

Speaker 2 (23:56):
It's a recipe for disaster. Um, one of the things
I think that sets me apart onsocial media when it comes to
talk , I'm not, I am not theonly person. And I'm not trying
to imply I'm the only person,the only farmer talking about
mental health on social mediacause I'm not. But I think one
of the things that sets measide is I'm not just talking
about mental health. I'mtalking about my mental health.

(24:19):
Um , because I , I am not anexpert. I don't have any
certifications or certificatesor I haven't been to any
classes on how to talk topeople about mental health. I'm
just talking about it as aperson who is living with it
and living with the strugglesand having gone through the
struggles. And um, honestly,sometimes if you watch some of

(24:40):
the videos I've posted, you cansee me working through it as
I'm talking about it.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
Right.
You're processing it throughtalking about it and Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
With farmers and there's been a shift in the
industry and I love it totalking more about mental
health. A lot of conferencesare having mental health
specialists or professionalscome talk to farmers about it.
And I love that. I'm notknocking it, but I think we're
missing a beat because offarmers and as traditional as
we are, and as I won't liestodgy as we are, I think

(25:14):
there's a step between I'm afarmer who is depressed and I'm
a professional who wants you toget help. And I think that step
in the middle, this is gonnacome out super egotistical
maybe, but are people like mewho are farmers talking out
loud about it. I , I havegotten dozens of messages over

(25:34):
the last couple years of peoplesaying , um, like thanking me
for talking out loud about mystruggles because it made them
face theirs. And I've had a fewpeople even say like, I made an
appointment with a therapistbecause I realize I need help
and I can't get out of thisplace.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah. That's gotta make you feel good that you
gave people permission to dosomething about the way that
they're feeling.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
It's ridiculously humbling. Mm . And the reason I
keep pushing post on my video , it's not easy. Like
people say, oh, you're so braveto talk about this. And I wish
they could see the momentbefore I hit send on those
videos cuz I'm just sittinghere like, oh no, I'm sure
nobody's ever felt like this.
Like I'm the only person. It'sterrifying. And um, the only

(26:24):
reason I do it is becauseafterwards I get messages like
that and it's, it's been mytherapy honestly. It's like I
said, it's validating. Like Iwant to know there are other
people out there feeling thesame way that I'm not
completely alone

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Due to a farmer's unique circumstances. Is it
difficult to seek out care formental health?

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Right . I think yes, farmers do have an extra hurdle
to jump over, but I think justin general mm-hmm .
, we are not asociety that asks for help
easily.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Uhhuh . And what is that extra hurdle?

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Um, location. Uh, there's a lot of rural places ,
uh, that it's just physicallyhard to get to. Um, time
management, you know, they,they work from what, eight to
four, nine to four, whatever itis. And those are the busiest
times of our day. Um, cost . Ithink the , the healthcare cost

(27:21):
could be a problem. Any extracost for farmers is stressful.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Is it fear of other people finding out or
embarrassment? Does that playinto it?

Speaker 2 (27:30):
I think so, but I think that's less a farming
thing and more just a peoplething, to be honest. And I
think one gigantic hurdlebetween farmers seeking out
help and um, I think morefarmers are seeking help, but
they're not sticking with itbecause the mental health
industry does not understandfarming. For example, like

(27:53):
let's say I'm a land a truckdriver and I go to a therapist
and all I do is complain aboutmy job and they're like, well
find another job. You know? Andthat's not an easy thing for
anyone to hear, but especiallyfor a farmer. You don't just
tell us to sell our farm

Speaker 1 (28:08):
If Right. If if , if you're not in farming, you
don't know how big of a dealthat is or , or what the , all
the implications of that wouldbe.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
And if a farmer goes to a therapist and they tell
them that they're never goingback

Speaker 1 (28:21):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
and right . When I get people who
tell me like, Hey, I reallywanna seek out help, what do I
do? Um, I, well one, I thinkthe online through Covid, I
think Covid, I'm not, I'm notsaying Covid was good, but I
think Covid did some amazingthings for us. The mental
health help online. Um , thelike therapists websites online

(28:44):
I think could be a huge thingfor farmers. Cuz you can do it
from your computer or yourphone. You could do it in the
cabin of a tractor , you know,talk to someone. And I know
some of those services providelike journaling options where
you can journal any time of theday you want and you can either
give your therapist access tothose journals or you can keep
them private. Um, I know I haveto journal occasionally just to

(29:04):
get my thoughts outta my brain.
Um, uh, but also I, I advisepeople like therapy. Like a lot
of things in life is a journeyjust because you go to one
therapist and it doesn't workout, maybe they're not for you.
You know, like you can't justassume the first person you go

(29:24):
to is gonna be who you're mostcomfortable talking to, but
don't give up. Like that firststep is such a huge step to
make, to admit that you have aproblem and actually seek help
for it. That's phenomenal that,that's braver than posting
random videos on Instagram.
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
You know, and I, I think, I hope that the stigma
around seeking out help formental health is getting
easier. Uh, because everyone,everyone struggles at some
point in their life.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah. Now are you familiar with any assistance
programs specifically for agworkers who, you know, wanna
learn about more about mentalhealth or they want to seek
help? Are there, is thereanything out there that you're
aware of?

Speaker 2 (30:08):
I think they're starting, I know on a state by
state basis there are a few, Ithink it's , um, Minnesota has
a pretty good farm mentalhealth network. Um,
Pennsylvania recently got a ,uh, farmer specific hotline.
Um, but it's slow incoming .

Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yeah. And as a farm advocate and someone who works
as a farmer speaking to otherfarmers, what advice would you
give to our listeners who maybe struggling right now? If
somebody's listening to thispodcast and they relate to the
things that you're talkingabout, what advice would you
give to them?

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Say it out loud in some way, shape or form? Um,
excuse me, i, i video journal,that sounds dumb, but basically
all it is is I drive myfour-wheeler to the middle of
the woods or pasture somewherewhere I'm pretty sure no one
can hear me. And I talk to myphone, I video it , uh, 50% of

(31:13):
the time. I don't even watchthem back 90% of the time, no
one else sees them. But justsomething about the act of
saying it out loud and gettingit out of your mind , uh, is a
very freeing feeling.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
So there's a freedom that comes to that and it's
therapeutic for you to do that.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Oh, for me, 100% .
Whether you write it down inthe journal or you video
journal it. And I think what itis is in the back of your mind
there's this like hint ofsomebody could see this and
that could help. You know, likeI said, 90% of those videos I
make never see the light ofday. They're still on my phone
somewhere. So I know someonepotentially could watch that

(31:56):
video, but, you know, I'm notnecessarily gonna share it with
them.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
. Right. Well there's definitely a
vulnerability just in doingthat. Like you said, you know,
because somebody could findthem or see them, but you
realize it , it's therapeuticenough to take that risk.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yeah. I I think if you can, I , and , and for me
personally, how the wholemental health sharing about my
personal journey started was memaking those video journals was
helping. And then one day, Idon't even call it bravery, I I
, to be honest , I called itstupidity. Uh, one day I said
something that felt like itsounded heavy and big and I

(32:33):
posted it, you know , um, itwas probably like the 50th
video I had made to myself. Andthat one for some reason just
sounded really light to me andI decided to post it online.
And what makes posting thosevideos for me easy is that I
can pretend that no one's gonnawatch them. Um, even if I , you

(32:55):
know, I've got thousands offollowers, even if I know
probably at least a thousandpeople are gonna watch it when
I first post it. I can be like,nobody one's gonna watch us .
It's just me talking to acamera. Nobody's gonna see it.
Um, and, and that, that's kindof what gives me that bravery I
guess. But , uh, it's, it'sjust, and I think the more you
do it for yourself, eventuallyyou become more comfortable to

(33:15):
share it with others. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
That's good advice.
So it's my understanding thatyou've personally taken steps
to advocate for mental healthwith your secret of Ag project.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that?

Speaker 2 (33:28):
I have, I almost feel a little , um, guilty
talking about it cuz I haven'tdone much with it in the last
year. Um, so what basicallywhat it is, is I call it
Secrets of Ag and it's ananonymous form online where
people can go and drop theirsecrets. You don't need to drop

(33:48):
your name, I don't need yourcontact info. There's literally
one question in one box and itjust says, tell me your secret.
You know what I , I make itclear in the writeup that if
you do share your secret,you're giving me permission ,
um, to reshare it in some wayunless you state otherwise.
I've had people send me secretsand say, please don't post
this. And I , I won't. Um, andI , I've also had people send

(34:08):
their secrets and sign theirname to it and I never post
their name, but it's prettyhumbling that they're willing
to, you know, trust an idiotwith an Instagram page. Yeah .
With their secret. Um,

Speaker 1 (34:19):
And you find that people, that's therapeutic for
people.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
Oh my god .

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah. Oh ,

Speaker 2 (34:25):
It's gigantic. You know, I , um, I started it out
as a way to give people anoutlet cuz I knew if I made it
anonymous, people would saythings, they wouldn't just say
to other people, you know,because there are consequences.
While making it anonymous tookthe consequence away. And that
was my goal. Like me sharingonline about my mental health

(34:46):
made me feel like , uh, feel alittle lighter. And I thought I
wanted to give other people theopportunity to be the same. Um,
but it ended up, it was, itbecame so much more , um, it's
changed the way I look atsituations and the way I look
at everything. I can't, I can'tdescribe it. People will write,

(35:08):
it'll be the same secret rightnext to each other from
different people, but the waythey write it, you can actually
feel what they're feeling. And,you know, I mean, the secrets
range from , um, silly secretsto , uh, you know, like, I
don't know how I'm gonna go on.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Well, where could our listeners go if they wanted
to submit a , a secret or theywanted to get something off
their chest? How would they dothat?

Speaker 2 (35:37):
If you go to my , um, spruce Row Farms Facebook
page or C js farm on Instagram, um, I have them linked there.
I'm working on a website, butthat's just, you know, another
thing to add to the to-do list.
Right . I haven't gotten toyet.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
So if somebody's listening to this podcast now
and they're feeling stressed ordepressed, what would your,
what would your bit of advicebe to them?

Speaker 2 (36:01):
I think I just want people to know that they're not
alone. You know, this, this jobis so isolating and then nobody
talks about mental health andthe bad feelings you feel. And
I, I can promise you, there isnot a feeling in the world that
someone else hasn't felt thesituation. And how you got to
that feeling might be veryvastly different. But the

(36:24):
feelings you're feeling are notexclusive to you. You know? And
I think knowing you're notalone in those feelings, they
say misery loves company. And Ithink I understand that saying
more than I ever have before.
Um , I don't want other peopleto be miserable, but I want
them to know that they're notalone in the way they're
feeling.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
I wanna thank you so much for joining our podcast
today and just sharing, w Iappreciate your honesty and I
appreciate you sharing thingsthat have helped you, you know,
deal with just the, theconstant work and some of the,
the stresses of dairy life. Youknow, I, I think everyone that
listens to this understands theimportant topic of mental , uh,

(37:05):
illness on the farm. So thankyou for taking time to share
with us. I appreciate it .

Speaker 2 (37:10):
Again, thanks for giving me a reason to talk
about it.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
To learn more about what Jessica has been talking
about and sharing and herwritings, you can go to Spruce
Rowe Farms Facebook page andread more about that. You can
also find her writings andcontributions on Hordes
Dairyman website, and that's atww.hordes.com. And she also

(37:35):
mentioned her Instagram site,which is at C Jess Farm . And C
is spelled s e e Jess Farm .
And I wanna thank each of ourlisteners for taking the time
to tune in. Topcon appreciatesall of our friends in
agriculture who work sotirelessly to put food on our
tables. And if you enjoyed thisepisode today, remember to

(37:57):
like, share, subscribe toTopcon Talks Agriculture on
Spotify, apple Podcasts, AmazonMusic, or wherever you get your
podcasts. Please tell yourfriends about us. We'd love for
you to follow TopconAgriculture on social media.
Thanks again for joining ustoday. See you next time. Go
out and make it a great day.