Can a simple device strapped to your hands revolutionise your swimming technique? On this episode of Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast we bring back Jaimie Fuller, the innovative CEO and co-founder of EO Sports Tech, to explore just that. Jamie takes us on a deep dive into the world of EO swimming handsets, which capture biomechanical feedback at an astonishing 50 times per second. These lightweight handsets analyse critical data points such as force, direction, speed, and hand angle to help swimmers fine-tune their propulsion efficiency. Jaimie breaks down the science behind the data and offers practical insights on how to set up, record, and analyse swim sessions for maximum benefit.
Improving technique isn't just for the young and elite; older athletes can significantly enhance their performance with data-driven adjustments. Using examples from swimming greats like Kyle Chalmers, Jaimie explains how force application and body position impact overall efficiency. We tackle common issues such as inefficient kicking, body drag, and excessive downward force caused by improper elbow positioning. Jaimie provides actionable tips tailored for both sprinters and distance swimmers, emphasising the importance of shoulder flexibility and targeted adjustments to prevent injuries and improve technique.
Finally, we address the gap between perceived and actual swimming techniques. Jaimie shares a compelling case study of a Norwegian swimmer who discovered significant discrepancies in his hand path through video analysis. Combining visual feedback with performance data metrics like stroke rate and hand path consistency, we uncover how even minor head movements during breathing can affect efficiency. Solutions such as using a snorkel for better balance are discussed, offering valuable advice for swimmers facing flexibility issues. Synchronising video footage with performance data, we demonstrate how a comprehensive analysis can lead to substantial improvements in swimming technique. Join us for an episode rich in insights and practical advice, designed to propel your swimming skills to the next level.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Danielle Spurling (00:10):
Hello swimmers and welcome to another
episode of Torpedo Swim Talkpodcast.
I'm your host, DanielleSpurling, and each week we chat
to a master swimmer from aroundthe world about their swimming
journey.
A few weeks ago, we had EOSports Lab CEO and co-founder,
Jaimie Fuller, on the podcast todiscuss the EO swimming
(00:31):
handsets.
They give biomechanicalfeedback about your stroke
directly to an app on your phone.
Unfortunately, there was a bitof a technical glitch at my end
and we lost the video recordingof that interview.
A technical glitch at my endand we lost the video recording
of that interview.
So today I've got Jaimie backon the show in the hot seat and
this time there is anaccompanying video that you can
watch over on our YouTubechannel, which displays the data
(00:55):
as we speak about it.
Let's hear from Jaimie now.
Hi Jamie, welcome back to thepodcast and thanks for joining
us.
Thanks, Danielle, lovely to bewith you, yeah well, we chatted
a little while ago and we had abit of a technical glitch on my
end with the video, so I reallywanted to get you back on,
(01:15):
because so many people haveexpressed interest in the
handsets that we spoke about,but I thought it would be really
useful for everyone to see thatdata in a video format while
we're talking about it.
So, for those that just need abrief reminder you're CEO and
co-founder of EOSportsTech andyou've got these wonderful
(01:37):
little handsets that I've beenoh, they're disappearing
wonderful little handsets thatI've been testing out.
Can you tell us a little bitabout them?
Jaimie Fuller (01:48):
Yeah, of course, danielle, thanks.
These devices are worn on thehands, they're very light, they
weigh less than a slice of breadeach, and they sit in the palm
of your hands and they leaveyour fingers free.
Sports tech is evolving rapidlyin all different sports, but
for whatever reason, swim'sbeing held back.
(02:10):
So we've developed these toreplicate.
And what we're talking abouthere, danielle, is Newton's
third law, and Newton's thirdlaw is very simple.
It says for every force oraction, there is an equal and
opposite reaction, and what thatmeans is, if I want to swim in
that direction, I want my handmoving in that direction, and my
(02:34):
hand moving sideways or toomuch down is not sending me
forward.
So these devices, they do somereally special stuff, stuff.
So they take measurements 50times a second.
So it's 50 hertz, 50 times asecond, and if you can imagine,
measuring not just the amount offorce that you're pushing
(02:56):
through your hands but thedirection that your hand is
moving, the speed that your handis moving, the angle of your
hand and what the angle ofattack is, plus the position of
your hand as you're goingthrough that stroke path.
We compile that data, weprocess it and we present it to
(03:18):
the swimmer, the athlete or thecoach so they can see very
clearly, in minute detail,exactly what's going on below
the surface of the water.
Now, this is about just thehands and it's about propulsion,
and we know that there areother contributory factors to
swimming.
There's the kick, there's therolling of the hips and the
(03:42):
leverage that comes with that,and there's also drag.
So we're not talking about dragor hip roll or kick, efficiency
or effectiveness.
It's purely about the paddle,and the paddle actually goes
from the elbow to the fingertips.
It includes the forearm, butthe beauty about the forearm is
(04:03):
it follows the hand.
So that's why we measure allthese things on the hand so that
we can get a really goodpicture of the largest
contributor to propulsion and toswimming speed, which is the
hand.
Danielle Spurling (04:17):
Yeah, awesome .
Show us how we turn them on andhow we work them.
Jaimie Fuller (04:22):
Okay.
So to turn them on.
I should make sure I put themon the right hand on.
So to turn them on.
They've only got.
They've only got two things onthem.
They've got a button and an ledlight.
I mean it's got a littlepressure sensor inside the o,
but here this is the thing thatwe engage with.
We interact with is that button, and so we hold that button
(04:44):
down for a long press and theygo green and they're now ready
to record.
So the idea is I start them,I'm ready to record, and now I
can hop in the water and whenI'm ready to start swimming, I
double-click one of the handsetsso that's now recording a file,
(05:05):
so you can start swimming now,and that will that will collect
the data, and then when you stopswimming, you double click one
of the buttons again and thenthat will, it's collected data
and I'm ready to download it,and then I can see exactly what
that data is showing me about myhands and what they've been
doing.
Danielle Spurling (05:24):
And so I can record everything in my session,
even if I'm doing repeats.
Say I'm doing 10 100s, I justpush it to get started, then I
put my hands under the waterstreamline, swim my 100.
And as I come in I hold it downand stop it, wait for my rest
and then go again.
Yeah, exactly.
Jaimie Fuller (05:45):
When you say you hold it down and stop it, wait
for my rest and then go again.
Yeah, exactly, when you say youhold it down, you just double
click to stop it.
Let's just step back a bit,because ideally, what you want
to do when you first get them isdo a baseline and, depending on
what you swim, danielle, so ifyou're a triathlete and your
(06:06):
main purpose is competitionwhere you're swimming, say, 2k
legs or 1,500, 1.5k legs, whatyou'll want to do is your very
first swim.
You'll do 1.5K.
Likewise, if you're acompetitive pool swimmer, that
your thing is the 400 or the 200, you want to capture that
(06:30):
before you start using thesystem and that becomes your
baseline.
And that's the thing that youkeep coming back to as you're
tracking your progress over time, progress over time.
So for me it was about 800meters.
So I did my 800 meters and thenI'd train during the week and
(06:52):
I'd play around and I'd do 50sand 100s and twos and I'd do
trial and error and I'd try andget less down and more
propulsive.
I'd try and get that elbow uphigher.
I'd play with that.
But then, every, every weekend,I'd do an 800 meter time trial
and that way, over time, I couldtrack my progress, not just
with my time but with all of theindividual metrics, including
(07:15):
things like distance per strokeor number of strokes per lap, my
percentage of of energy orforce.
That's propulsive, because wesplit it up and we show you, for
example, on that baseline,we'll show you of the 100%, how
much is moving back towards yourfeet, how much is moving
(07:38):
laterally, how much is movingdown or up at the back end of
your stroke.
So we give you that data andthen you can look at that over
time with your objective to tochange and to bring as much
propulsion into play as you can.
We've also got an idea of yourgoals, of what you would want to
(08:00):
achieve ideally, differentlyfor a distance swimmer as for a
sprinter, because the sprinter'sgot a straight arm, so they
tend to get more downward forceat the beginning, before the
catch, whereas a distanceswimmer has got that high elbow
goes over the barrel and theytend to have less downward force
and a higher percentage ofpropulsion.
(08:21):
So you you can track your totalforce or the amount of power
that you're pushing.
You can track the directionit's going.
You can track the number oflaps, the number of strokes per
lap, your distance per stroke.
You can track all of theseindividual things and you can
see your progress over time asyou make those changes.
Danielle Spurling (08:43):
When you get that data and we'll have a look
at that in a moment do you haveany sort of touchstones for
people to have a look to seewhat other sort of what their
ideal is, or is that purely justyour own sort of metrics that
you're going against?
Jaimie Fuller (09:01):
So, it's a little bit of both.
It's primarily just about youand the system, because swimming
is such a difficult sport andwe're all very individual and
we've all got our ownidiosyncrasies.
It might be to do withflexibility.
It might be to do with where weswitch on which muscles at what
(09:25):
point in the stroke and whathand path we need to take in
order to maximize the power thatwe're trying to find and bring
it against the water.
So as much as people say to meoh gee, jamie, can you show me
an Olympian's hand path and I'llcopy that, I say no, no, no.
You.
You show me an Olympian's handpath and I'll copy that, I say
(09:45):
no, no, no, you don't want to dothat.
This is primarily about youagainst you.
It's not about you comparing tosomebody else.
So look, my force profile issensation.
My force profile is probablybetter than most Olympic
swimmers.
My times are absolute rubbish.
(10:11):
The reason is because I have akick that does absolutely
nothing and I have horrendousbody drag.
So I have to make up for myterrible body position and my
lack of core strength and mylack of core strength and my
lack of overall swimming abilityby having a much better stroke,
or propulsion, if you like.
(10:32):
So when I look at Kyle Chalmersand I was with Kyle the week
before the Olympic trials when Ilook at the amount of force
that he's pushing and where thatforce is being applied, it's,
frankly, considerably less thanI do pushing, and where that
force is being applied, it's,frankly, considerably less than
I do.
But you know, I mean I also.
(10:56):
I also watched him do a 50meters with a kickboard in 32
seconds.
Now, the good news for me is,when I use the kickboard, I
don't go backwards.
Quite a lot of things gobackwards with the kickboard.
The bad news is, I hardly moveforward.
So so there are all these otherexternal factors that come into
play, but when it comes down tome, looking at me and my data
and comparing over the time andmaking changes and looking at
(11:18):
the outcome of those changes,that's what this is about.
So having, though, when we dolook at what we call the force
field, which is how we breakthose forces up in percentage
terms, we have a pretty clearidea of what everybody should be
aiming for, and it is slightlydifferent for a sprinter to a
(11:39):
distance swim, and so when Ihave my one-on-one sessions that
I do with our customers who buythe stuff, buy the tech, and
then they go and use it and thenthey want a little bit of help
in interpreting it.
So we set up these Zoom callsand share screen and go over it
and I show them, I walk themthrough it.
Danielle Spurling (12:01):
Invariably I can talk to them about what
their objective should be in theforce field, based on whether
they're a sprint or a distancewith them I mean it's intriguing
because obviously I used itprobably six, seven weeks ago
when we first spoke and thefeedback you gave me then made
(12:21):
me think a lot about what I wasdoing with my stroke and there
was a lot of downward push andI've been thinking about unusual
, yeah, which is not unusual,but a lot I thought, much more
than I thought I was doing, soI've been thinking about that a
little bit over this time, soit'll be interesting when we
look at my data to see whetherthat has improved at all.
Jaimie Fuller (12:44):
Daniel, the bottom line is, if you can,
because in the time I spent inthe US last year going around
and talking to a lot of NCAAcoaches and swimmers and doing
demos and looking at data, I wasblown away by the amount of
NCAA sw2a swimmers who weredidn't have much in the in the
(13:08):
wave propulsion and they had waytoo much downward force.
A lot of them more than half oftheir total energy expenditure
is the hand pushing down andthere are a bunch of reasons why
this can happen and some of itis as simple as you know.
When you we know from a from amiddle distance or a distance
(13:28):
swimmer, we know that you wantto get that high elbow catch and
go over the barrel.
I mean it's it's pretty basic,but you'd be amazed at the
amount of these guys where theirfirst move is actually a drop
of the elbow and the moment thatelbow drops that hand and the
moment that elbow drops, thathand has got to push down
further and that in itself is amassive contributor to having
(13:50):
too much downward force.
Instead of that elbow kicking,you know, at the end of the
glide and kicking to get thatcatch, it goes the other way and
the ramifications of that aresevere.
Danielle Spurling (14:03):
Yeah, the other way and the, the
ramifications of that is severe.
Yeah, and I think actually,looking at um sort of older
athletes so sort of like masterswimmers, I think a little bit
of that is also shoulderflexibility, so that sort of
comes into it as well, becausewhen you're getting that early I
know I'm disappearing in hereum early vertical forearm, it
actually decreases the space inthe shoulder capsule, so it is a
lot harder for inflexible olderathletes to actually get into
(14:27):
that sort of position.
So I think this kind of data isreally, you know, great to have
, because they know that thenmaybe they need to work a little
bit on that shoulderflexibility and getting into the
right position so they're nothurting their shoulder, no
question.
Jaimie Fuller (14:42):
So they're not hurting their shoulder, no
question.
And it reveals all this stuffand it stresses, and you'd be
amazed at the gap that existsbetween what my brain thinks I'm
doing and what I'm really doing.
It's terrifying.
I had a guy in Bergen in Norwaytell me oh, look our hand,
(15:05):
path's no good because it says.
He said to me, it says that myhand is going into the glide
across my body like this.
And I know, he said, I know I'mgliding straight.
And he went and invested in aGoPro camera with a little
cradle and a suction cup that hestuck against the end of the
lane and swam towards it.
(15:25):
And he contacted me, absolutelyhorrified because when he saw
himself on video, the hands, thehands were coming into glass
and in his mind he wasabsolutely certain that it was
straight.
And this happens quite a lot,with a brain saying one thing
but the the body's doing.
Danielle Spurling (15:43):
Yeah, it's very interesting, isn't it Very
interesting?
I'll share my screen with youand we can have a bit of a look
at what we'd like to look at.
First, the force field.
Jaimie Fuller (15:55):
Well, first of all, pick your swim.
Is this the swim you want tofocus on?
Danielle Spurling (15:58):
Yeah, I mean I just did a number of.
Now this was in a 25 metre pool.
Yeah, they're all pretty muchthe same.
Let's just look at this one.
That's fine, I tell you what.
Go to the one below becauseit's a faster time.
Jaimie Fuller (16:12):
It's 41 seconds.
Danielle Spurling (16:13):
I think I was doing 25 fast, 25 easy, so it'd
be interesting to see thedifference.
Jaimie Fuller (16:21):
Okay.
So what you're looking at hereis the summary.
It's a summary at the top andit tells you where the pool is,
what the distance you swam, thepool length, the time it took,
total number of strokes, youraverage stroke rate, your
distance per stroke and yourforce per stroke.
So that's just a swim summary.
(16:42):
And then you're looking at thetwo laps down the bottom.
The orange is your left hand,the blue is your right.
So you can see you've actuallygot a dominant left hand, you're
pushing more force through yourleft and then the green line on
top that's your stroke rate.
And if you hover your pointerabove the green line on top,
that's your stroke rate.
And if you hover your pointerabove the green line, see, your
(17:04):
stroke rate on lap two was 36.
Then you go to lap one, move abit further over and you were
stroke rate of 40.
So, as you said, you were sortof pushed more on lap one and
then you slowed down on lap two.
So that's total force.
Now if you click on force fieldon the tab force field, this is
(17:26):
where we get to see where thoseforces are being applied.
And so we're looking at lap one.
We've got both hands switched onand you can see that you're
only getting a third of yourenergy as propulsive.
You're only getting a third ofyour energy is propulsive.
More than half of it is pushingdown and the rest is split,
primarily laterally.
You've got more force pushingto the right direction than you
(17:49):
do to the left, so you're 8.3 inthe right direction and 4.7 in
the left.
I would hazard a guess thatthat is your left hand, so
that's for both hands combined.
If you go and switch off theright hand down the bottom,
please, on the left, if youswitch, that little yep and
(18:12):
you'll see there.
Yeah, see, the left hand ispushing to the right 14%.
Your propulsion remains thesame and your downward remains
the same.
So both hands are consistentpropulsively and downward, but
you've got a slight imbalancelaterally.
So let's have a look at yourconsistency and see what your
(18:33):
consistency can tell us.
So we might as well turn it onall left and all right, please.
Okay, so you can see.
In fact, could you switch offthe right please, and we'll just
look at the left.
What you can see here is you'vegot several strokes that are
coming right across your centreline and I would hazard a guess
(18:57):
that you breathe to the right.
Daniel, yes, correct, okay, andI think you might find that
those strokes that are crossingover further, I think you might
find those could be yourbreathing strokes.
So if you clear all selected,please Right, and now click two,
(19:19):
four and six.
Right now, sorry, unclick twoand I'm trying to look for a
pattern to see.
And eight, click eight, please.
I think you'll find that yourbreathing strokes are four, six
and eight.
I don't know what happened totwo, but that's telling us that
you've got a distinct differencein your breathing strokes to
(19:43):
your non-breathing strokes,which is happening because your
head rotation is not as optimalas it could be and it should be.
We know that the best swimmers,when they breathe, you just see
the corner of their mouth stickout of the water.
Their objective is to minimizethe head rotation because we
(20:04):
don't want to affect theshoulders or the body balance at
all, so that head rotationwanted to be independent of
everything else.
And if you've got that, thenyou won't have what we're
looking at here, which is thatsignificant difference for that
left hand during the breathingphase.
And what I tell people, ifthey're unsure, is put a snorkel
(20:28):
on, take the head rotation out,put a snorkel on, take the
readings and you should seethose hand paths balance each
other out.
Danielle Spurling (20:38):
No, I agree, I know that they're different
and I know that.
Yes, because of flexibility, Ithink I'm definitely crossing
over when I breathe to balanceout the stroke.
Jaimie Fuller (20:52):
That's why I always swim with a snorkel.
I have flexibility issues too,in my neck, and I basically
wreck my body if I try andbreathe.
So for me, I'm never going tocompete, I'm never going to be
racing anybody, I just do it forme.
So snorkel on all the time, andit means I can swim distances
(21:13):
that ordinarily I couldn't.
Danielle Spurling (21:16):
The other thing I look at is symmetry.
Jaimie Fuller (21:18):
So if you wouldn't mind selecting all of
the left and the right, please?
And what we're looking for hereis ideally a mirror,
particularly in the overhead.
So we look at the side on viewand we want to see ideally both
of them coming down to the samedepth.
We're looking for that balanceand particularly in the middle,
(21:39):
for the overhead view, we'relooking to see the hand paths
mirror one another.
It's not unusual to see somebodywith one hand path doing this
and the other doing that.
You know it's and it highlightsthings that you should focus on
and potential injuries.
You know, quite often you'llhave somebody that's had
(22:00):
shoulder surgery and gettingback to we're talking before
about flexibility, you knowthey've got a problem with one
particular shoulder and theycan't get that range of motion
Either way.
It makes you ask the questionand it might be down to seeing a
physical therapist or a physioand getting worked on, and they
might discover that you've gotsome sort of blockage, something
(22:23):
that's stopping you from havingthe range of motion that you
not only need for swimming butyou need for good general health
, and then you can identifythose problems and start working
on them, should we?
have a look at lap two, please,Danielle, if you click down the
bottom on two and then selectthe strokes again, yeah, it's a
(22:46):
pretty much the same sort ofpattern you can really see on
the right hand side, the head on.
You can see the width and howthat left hand is cutting right
across your center line.
You can see how it reallystands out on that head where
it's coming down in a loop andthen going back.
Danielle Spurling (23:06):
Yeah, really, it's coming over a long way,
isn't it?
Jaimie Fuller (23:10):
Let's have a look at force versus time, because
this is where it gets reallyinteresting, in that we can now
look inside the stroke, and sothis looks a little bit
intimidating at first, and I'lltell you what we're going to do.
Can you turn off the right hand, please?
I'm going to ask you are youable just to select in the
middle, say the middle, fourstrokes, if you click on one and
(23:34):
then hold it down?
And then, yeah, just click onthat and hold it down and then
move it over?
Yep, keep going, going a bitfurther.
There you go, and you can letthat go.
Right now, what we're looking atis we've blown them up and each
of those spikes is a stroke.
So you can see we're looking atfour strokes there, and what's
(23:57):
important on here is to be ableto read the three phases of
glide, pull and recovery.
And so if we take the one onthe left and to the right of the
one on the left where it goesflat, this one here Exactly, and
just come back a bit furtherback, a bit further right there,
that's where the hand isexiting the water, and then the
(24:22):
hand is in recovery and whilstit's in recovery, it's out of
the water.
It's not measuring any force,which is why that's flat line on
the zero.
And if you can move to theright, please right to there.
And right there is where thehand is now entering the glide.
And you can see how it goesnegative during the glide, and
(24:43):
that negative force indicateshand drag.
And we don't want, during theglide phase, we don't want to be
presenting the palm of the handto the water in front of us,
because that's effectivelyapplying a break.
And that's what you see thereon each of those strokes, and
some of them worse than others.
So the one before you can seeis the worst, that's bad.
(25:06):
Yep, you've got a lot of handdrag there, whereas the one, uh,
sort of second from the rightis the best one.
Where you've got that one.
There you don't have that much,but that's indicating.
So your hand, as it's goinginto the glide, is doing that.
Now it can be because the wristis dropping or the elbow is
dropping, but either way, a goodglide is constantly heading
(25:32):
downward at a slight angle andyou shouldn't be doing that at
all in your glide, because ifyou don't do that, it actually
becomes slightly propulsive asopposed to putting on a brake,
and at the end of the glide youcan see.
And if you go just to the rightof where you were there, oh,
yes, here.
Yeah, that one there.
And you can see we start topull and you can see the
(25:54):
propulsion increases and it goesup and then something happens
and it drops off, drops offagain, and then it goes up and
then something happens and itdrops off again and then it goes
up again.
And so the question is why am Ilosing that propulsion?
What am I doing that's gettingme propulsive?
And then suddenly I'm losingthe propulsion and then it's
coming back, and it's not assimple as I'm.
(26:18):
I'm starting my pool, I get toa point and I stop and have a
holiday, and then I go again.
It's not quite as simple, andI'll show you how we can
diagnose this.
Danielle Spurling (26:30):
We'll be back with Jamie after this short
break.
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And now back to Jamie.
Jaimie Fuller (27:15):
And I'll show you how we can diagnose this.
And I'll show you how we candiagnose this.
So the beauty about this littlebaby here.
If you click on the wordlateral down at the bottom,
please, what?
This then does?
Is this, then, shows us the twovectors we're looking at the
propulsive and lateral force?
Can you please select thosefour strokes that we were
(27:37):
looking at Now?
to tell you how we read this,you see the propulsive.
We talked about the propulsivewaveform.
How simple it is to read thatwhen we look at the lateral, the
lateral forces are either goingto be positive or negative.
When the lateral forces arepositive, it means that the
(27:59):
hands are facing outwards.
When the lateral forces arenegative, the hands are facing
inwards.
So you can effectively picturein your mind's eye and if you
take that first stroke on theleft and you can see we've
already talked about the handdrag, I've used my left hand,
we've talked about the hand dragat the same time it's positive.
(28:23):
So not only have you got handdrag, but that hand is is aimed
outwards during your glide,right because it's positive.
And then if you scroll across alittle further, right there, no
, back a bit, because whatyou're seeing is that hand
changes direction and so itstarts off in the glide facing
(28:44):
outwards as it starts to pull,it rotates and that's where
you're getting negative down thebottom.
See where that is, right there,if you just push the pointer
down, just so we can get rid ofthose things right.
And then if you go over alittle bit further to the right
right there, right you see it'sgot a change of direction, of
(29:07):
lateral.
Can you come back just awhisker, just to the point?
We're on that change rightthere, and that change of
direction coincides with youbottoming out your propulsion.
What that means is your hand isrotating as it's coming through
the stroke and what we want, iswe want that hand facing the
feet all the way back.
But what you're doing is you'regoing out and you're rolling and
(29:30):
you're coming in and thenyou're getting your second push.
Your push gives you your secondpeak.
And if you go over two strokesand have a look at the one in
the middle right there, you seeit looks a little bit like a
mirror between the propulsiveand the lateral and it shows you
that relationship that existsbetween a change in lateral
(29:52):
force direction and your force,either dropping off the cliff
propulsive dropping off thecliff or your propulsion
bottoming out and then goingback up.
Danielle Spurling (30:02):
Right, yeah, it's really really interesting.
Jaimie Fuller (30:06):
Okay Now can you go to the next chart, which is
stroke path and force.
Now can you click on stroke six, please, down the bottom, yep,
and click on the lateral on theright a bit further to the right
, and click on the lateral onthe right a bit further to the
right and then on top of thestroke path, the hand path.
So it's got side on overheadand head on.
(30:26):
Click on overhead, please.
So now what we're doing iswe're bringing this all together
where we're going to see thehand path, we're going to see
the force that play in thedirection, both propulsively and
laterally.
Now on the left-hand side whereit says time, there's a slider
(30:47):
and if you grab that red dot atthe top of the time, if you
click on that and hold it downand then start sliding that down
, you can see on the hand path.
that hand is moving where it ison the hand path, that hand is
moving where it is on the handpath and we can see right what's
going on here and where thoseforces are changing.
(31:08):
So if we come back up, please,and what I want to do is select,
I want to get to, I want toslide that slider down until
that red line on the rightcoincides with the first peak.
Danielle Spurling (31:21):
Oh, that next one up.
Jaimie Fuller (31:22):
Okay On that hand path is where your propulsive
force is about to go through thefloor and you can see on that
force chart it not only drops,it goes to zero.
So in the middle of that strokestroke you have no propulsion
at all.
So and at that stage where yourhand is there on that hand path
(31:47):
, in the middle, you'regenerating inward force.
So that hand is moving inwards,right and as it's moving
inwards and it's facing inwards,see that hand can move inwards
and still face the back, or itcan move inwards and face
inwards and and it's it's facinginwards, which means it's
(32:09):
generating that lateral force.
So if you grab that slideragain, please, daniel, and move
it a bit further to the bottomof the valley of the propulsion,
a bit further right there.
Ok, now, right there, if youlook on the hand path is the
extreme point on the right ofyour hand path and now your hand
(32:33):
path.
And if you look at your lateralforce, see the way your lateral
force it goes up and then comesback down where we're on that
peak of lateral.
That's a change in direction.
Hand is doing that at thatpoint which marries up with the
hand rotation, and then thatpoint where you're at there on
(32:59):
the hand path is effectivelywhere pull becomes push and that
push gives you the second.
Danielle Spurling (33:05):
Luckily the push is a little bit stronger,
because otherwise I'd be introuble.
Jaimie Fuller (33:11):
No, no, the push is good, but what your goal
should be is to get rid of thatrepulsive goal Exactly.
Danielle Spurling (33:19):
I know exactly what's happening there.
I turn in the old way we weretaught under the body, and what
I'm doing is I'm moving the handtoo far.
Jaimie Fuller (33:30):
And look, the beauty about this system is very
small changes in the hand angleshow up really clearly because
the impact is significant.
You'd be amazed at this.
Really small change can have adevastating effect on your
propulsion.
It really does.
(33:54):
It's about, and it's about onceagain, newton's third law.
If I want to go that way, myhand's got to be moving that way
.
And if you think about it right, if you imagine maximum force,
pushing maximum force through,at a certain point, your muscles
can't cope, your body can'tcope and something has to give.
(34:14):
And what gives is that handjust rotates.
Because if I move my hand likethat, or if I move it, it's so
much easier to move like that,I'm reducing the surface area,
or even going halfway reducesthe surface area.
You slip, you lose water andthat's exactly what that is.
(34:35):
It's telling you that you'reslipping.
Now mostly it's about beingaware of it, concentrating,
doing it and doing it again andhaving a look at the data and
having a look at the output likethis, and you'll see it improve
and change.
That's mostly what it's about.
Sometimes with some people it'sabout getting into the gym and
(35:00):
doing dry land work and buildingup their muscles so that they
can contain that, but itshouldn't be.
It should be more about I mean,I'm talking for us non-elites,
right, it should be more aboutan awareness thing.
And the other thing I've got totell you, daniel, the thing that
really makes this system sinkis when you take this and you
(35:23):
put it at the end of the lane ofthe pool.
You get in and you do two lapsand you stand in the shallow end
and whilst you're in the wateryou download it and you're
looking at the force field andthe force field tells you you're
33% propulsive and you think,okay, I'm now going to go again
and I'm going to concentrate,because I'm 51% down and 33%
(35:47):
propulsive.
I'm going to concentrate ontransitioning and going from the
end of the glide into thatposition very quickly, because
that's my downward force and Iwant to be done quickly,
efficiently and effectively.
So then I've got more repulsivetime and so you go and do
another two laps and youconcentrate on that, and then
(36:10):
you stand in the pool and youdownload it again.
It takes five seconds andyou've got the data and you
think, okay, I've gone from 33,33 propulsion, 51 down.
Suddenly you're at 46 percentpropulsive and 42 percent down.
I'm going to go again and againand again, and you'd be amazed
at how quickly you can get from33% to 60% plus per post.
Danielle Spurling (36:33):
Yeah.
Jaimie Fuller (36:34):
By concentrating on that.
It's what we call the fastfeedback loop.
Yeah, it's that.
As opposed to go and get thedata, go home, load it, look at
it and then think, okay,tomorrow I'm going to go back
and I'm going to do this, whichstill works, and frankly, it's
the way I did it and I'vedramatically changed my strength
by doing it.
I'd stop in a coffee shop onthe way home and I'd have a look
(36:57):
at my data.
I'd have a coffee, look at mydata, and then I'd go and I'd
implement the change the nextday.
It just sort of takes longer,whereas if you can do this with
that fast feedback loop, get itto where you want to get to.
And then it's about rinse andrepeat, rinse and repeat, rinse
and repeat.
You end up with your you knowyour muscle memory kicks in, you
(37:19):
ingrain it into your musclememory and then you go and look
at the next.
And that's the other thing.
So many people think they canchange multiple things at once.
No way.
One thing, focus on one thing,do it, do it, do it, do it, do
it and then move on to the nextyeah, look, I think that having
that biofeedback with the phoneat the end of the pool is really
(37:41):
good.
Danielle Spurling (37:41):
I didn't do that either.
Um, I, I did it all and then I.
Some of these may have beenbackstroke, I think they were.
Some of them were backstroke,but I don't know which ones,
because then I couldn't remember.
So I think.
Jaimie Fuller (37:54):
Well, you'll see backstroke if you look at the
consistency on any of them.
The backstroke charts are very,very clearly backstroke.
And what?
you should do is when you uploadthe data to your phone, you
select the stroke so you can doback butterfly and free.
We can't do breaststroke yetThat'll come later this year but
(38:16):
if you want to do backstrokeit's not a problem.
And then you upload it and youtell it it's backstroke and then
it'll show you all theprinciples still the same.
Newton's third law stillremains the same.
It's about that hand.
You know it's just inbackstroke.
You want that hand.
What you want is you want thathand facing your feet.
You don't want it like that.
You don't want it like that.
(38:37):
You don't want it comingthrough like that or like that.
You want it.
You want it as flush as you can, heading towards your feet
until you get near the end.
Danielle Spurling (38:47):
And it's exactly the same principle it's
an it's an amazing system and Ithink um I certainly already got
a lot from it just just fromusing it.
Um, when you said breaststrokewill be coming later in the year
, because a few people have umasked about that, when do you
(39:07):
know when that's coming?
Jaimie Fuller (39:09):
No, I don't, and the reason is we detect at the
moment it's about the strokedefinition of hand entry and
hand exit, and with breaststrokewe know that that doesn't
necessarily happen.
So we've got to reconfigure allthe algorithms.
It can be done, there's noquestion.
It's not a question of can itor can't it be done, it's more a
(39:31):
function of time and what haveyou?
Can I share my screen with you?
I want to show you something.
We can synchronise video anddata as well.
So if you want to capture video, what we do is we capture.
As you can see on here, we'recapturing that first flash, and
(39:59):
that first flash becomes thepoint to synchronize both.
So when I hit you, can see thisred line moving, because that's
that's recording, but it's notmeasuring anything because he's
not in the water.
But you'll see in a secondright.
Here is where it starts tocapture data, because that's
where the hands enter the water,and so you'll see in he comes.
(40:20):
Now the beauty about this is wecan blow this up and we can go
into here.
We can look and say, oh, lookat that big double peak, what's
his hand doing there?
And if I click right there, seewhat happens to the video.
it goes immediately to that spotand then, I can go frame by
(40:45):
frame and you'll see that redline move and as the red line
move and as the red line moves,so does the video.
And you can see in the video wecan now see the back of his hand
because that hand is rotatedright.
That hand is no longer pointing, which is why he's dropped this
propulsion there.
And if you want, you can switchthe left hand off.
(41:07):
We can put the lateral on, wecan blow this back up.
We can look at again.
If I come back here you'll seehere it's now got that slight
little bump there is becausethat hand is just slightly
facing outwards on the video andthen it's turning, it's going
(41:27):
to turn here and then, as that'sturning, that hand is now
turning and coming in.
We're now going to start togenerate this lateral force
inwards, as you see right, atthe same time as we're losing
that propulsion right.
And then he comes back for asecond peak right there.
(41:48):
Now that hand is facingperfectly backwards right here
as he's getting his maximumpropulsion right there.
And then if we want to see theleft hand, well, I'll turn the
right off, turn the left on, andthen we'll look at lap two,
(42:08):
because he'll be going back theother way and we might click
there.
And then, lo and behold, now wecan see what the left hand is
doing as it's coming throughfrom the other side.
So the ability to, becausequite a lot of swimmers need to
have visual proof as well.
Right, we were talking beforeabout the guy who thought that
(42:30):
his hands were going straight.
Well, quite a lot of people.
They need to see this, and whenyou're showing them and you're
explaining that your hand'sdoing this and you can see it in
the data and show what'shappening, when they see it on
the video and they can see.
Suddenly, now, from the side,we can see the back of the hand,
so it's not rotated fully, butit's at an angle.
Danielle Spurling (42:52):
then they get it so you just set up a um a
gopro to video this this one wasa gopro.
Jaimie Fuller (43:00):
You can use a mobile phone anything as long as
you can get a file.
It's as simple as that.
And then you, and then youdownload the file from your
device to your computer and thenthrough the platform because
you don't do the video on theapp, you do it on the platform
and then, through the platform,you upload it to the platform,
(43:22):
from your computer to theplatform.
You do the very simplesynchronizing, which is very
simple.
Like I said, it synchronizes tothe flash.
So if I take this back to thevery beginning, right there when
we hit play, you can see it'sflashing and that's the
synchronizing point, which thengoes on there.
Danielle Spurling (43:47):
It's super easy and it's great for coaches
and swimmers that want to getthat extra, that extra dimension
to it yeah, I mean, it's suchvaluable feedback and it, as you
say, you don't realize thatthose things are happening in
your stroke.
So to see it on the video, Ithink, is for a lot of athletes
are visual learners, so I thinkthat that is really, you know,
(44:10):
really important to go with thesports science advice as well.
Jaimie Fuller (44:16):
But the beauty about it is you can see very
clearly like this right hand hasgot double peaks.
As you can see, the left handtends not to have the double
peaks.
That first peak is very small.
It's a very different pattern.
You can see very have thedouble peaks, what it does.
That first peak is very small.
It's a very different pattern.
You can see very clearly thatdouble peak and so if you just
had the video, you're not goingto see that no, exactly.
Danielle Spurling (44:37):
You need both parts to fit together like a
jigsaw.
Yeah.
Jaimie Fuller (44:40):
You're not going to understand, but that's why,
also, you can appreciate.
That's why this chart here,when we were talking about this
before, um, you know this, thischart here is the nearest we've
got to doing a video.
Without a video, yeah, to beable to look at what that hand
(45:03):
position is here and again.
Here you can see, look, thathand is going to change
direction laterally there.
As it's changing direction,look what happens to the
propulsion right, and in thiscase it's the right hand yours
was the left hand sweeping in.
In this case it's the righthand sweeping out and it hits
that point of maximum outwardposition here and then it
(45:27):
rotates and as it rotates and itcomes in force, drops off and
then from here to here, it'sgetting that inward lateral
force, which is what's down hereand then here, as you can see,
it's going to push back.
From there it back, and that'swhere we get that second peak.
Danielle Spurling (45:49):
Fantastic data.
I love it, it's cool, isn't ityeah?
It's really cool.
It really really is, jamie.
Thank you so much for joiningus today on the podcast.
I'm really really pleased thatyou came back and we got this
download video so people canactually see what we were
talking about.
So that they can, you know.
Jaimie Fuller (46:10):
Well, let's hope your recording skills are better
than the last one.
Danielle Spurling (46:12):
We're blaming the cloud.
Jaimie Fuller (46:13):
We're blaming the cloud let's hope we do have it
recorded.
Danielle Spurling (46:17):
I think we will okay.
Jaimie Fuller (46:21):
Thanks, jamie, take care good on you, dan
Danielle.
Thank you.
Danielle Spurling (46:24):
Okay, bye, take care.
Bye.
Thanks for listening intotoday's episode.
Check out the video to thispodcast over on our YouTube
channel.
We'll put the link in today'sshow notes.
We'll also put a link to EOSports Lab so that, if you want
to check out these handsets foryourself, you can have a look at
(46:45):
their website and go from there.
And a big shout out to SarahLouise, john Travers, jeff
Miller and Abby Conrad, who allbecame our very first
subscribers this last week.
Your support means the world.
If you want to join them, don'tforget to subscribe to the show
through following the link inour Instagram bio at Torpedo
Swim Talk podcast or via thebutton on our Torpedo Swim Talk
(47:09):
website.
Hope to see you in our SwimTalkers group soon.
Till next time.
Happy swimming and bye for now.
Hello swimmers and welcome to another
episode of Torpedo Swim Talkpodcast.
I'm your host, DanielleSpurling, and each week we chat
to a master swimmer from aroundthe world about their swimming
journey.
A few weeks ago, we had EOSports Lab CEO and co-founder,
Jaimie Fuller, on the podcast todiscuss the EO swimming
(00:31):
handsets.
They give biomechanicalfeedback about your stroke
directly to an app on your phone.
Unfortunately, there was a bitof a technical glitch at my end
and we lost the video recordingof that interview.
A technical glitch at my endand we lost the video recording
of that interview.
So today I've got Jaimie backon the show in the hot seat and
this time there is anaccompanying video that you can
watch over on our YouTubechannel, which displays the data
(00:55):
as we speak about it.
Let's hear from Jaimie now.
Hi Jamie, welcome back to thepodcast and thanks for joining
us.
Thanks, Danielle, lovely to bewith you, yeah well, we chatted
a little while ago and we had abit of a technical glitch on my
end with the video, so I reallywanted to get you back on,
(01:15):
because so many people haveexpressed interest in the
handsets that we spoke about,but I thought it would be really
useful for everyone to see thatdata in a video format while
we're talking about it.
So, for those that just need abrief reminder you're CEO and
co-founder of EOSportsTech andyou've got these wonderful
(01:37):
little handsets that I've beenoh, they're disappearing
wonderful little handsets thatI've been testing out.
Can you tell us a little bitabout them?
Jaimie Fuller (01:48):
Yeah, of course, danielle, thanks.
These devices are worn on thehands, they're very light, they
weigh less than a slice of breadeach, and they sit in the palm
of your hands and they leaveyour fingers free.
Sports tech is evolving rapidlyin all different sports, but
for whatever reason, swim'sbeing held back.
(02:10):
So we've developed these toreplicate.
And what we're talking abouthere, danielle, is Newton's
third law, and Newton's thirdlaw is very simple.
It says for every force oraction, there is an equal and
opposite reaction, and what thatmeans is, if I want to swim in
that direction, I want my handmoving in that direction, and my
(02:34):
hand moving sideways or toomuch down is not sending me
forward.
So these devices, they do somereally special stuff, stuff.
So they take measurements 50times a second.
So it's 50 hertz, 50 times asecond, and if you can imagine,
measuring not just the amount offorce that you're pushing
(02:56):
through your hands but thedirection that your hand is
moving, the speed that your handis moving, the angle of your
hand and what the angle ofattack is, plus the position of
your hand as you're goingthrough that stroke path.
We compile that data, weprocess it and we present it to
(03:18):
the swimmer, the athlete or thecoach so they can see very
clearly, in minute detail,exactly what's going on below
the surface of the water.
Now, this is about just thehands and it's about propulsion,
and we know that there areother contributory factors to
swimming.
There's the kick, there's therolling of the hips and the
(03:42):
leverage that comes with that,and there's also drag.
So we're not talking about dragor hip roll or kick, efficiency
or effectiveness.
It's purely about the paddle,and the paddle actually goes
from the elbow to the fingertips.
It includes the forearm, butthe beauty about the forearm is
(04:03):
it follows the hand.
So that's why we measure allthese things on the hand so that
we can get a really goodpicture of the largest
contributor to propulsion and toswimming speed, which is the
hand.
Danielle Spurling (04:17):
Yeah, awesome .
Show us how we turn them on andhow we work them.
Jaimie Fuller (04:22):
Okay.
So to turn them on.
I should make sure I put themon the right hand on.
So to turn them on.
They've only got.
They've only got two things onthem.
They've got a button and an ledlight.
I mean it's got a littlepressure sensor inside the o,
but here this is the thing thatwe engage with.
We interact with is that button, and so we hold that button
(04:44):
down for a long press and theygo green and they're now ready
to record.
So the idea is I start them,I'm ready to record, and now I
can hop in the water and whenI'm ready to start swimming, I
double-click one of the handsetsso that's now recording a file,
(05:05):
so you can start swimming now,and that will that will collect
the data, and then when you stopswimming, you double click one
of the buttons again and thenthat will, it's collected data
and I'm ready to download it,and then I can see exactly what
that data is showing me about myhands and what they've been
doing.
Danielle Spurling (05:24):
And so I can record everything in my session,
even if I'm doing repeats.
Say I'm doing 10 100s, I justpush it to get started, then I
put my hands under the waterstreamline, swim my 100.
And as I come in I hold it downand stop it, wait for my rest
and then go again.
Yeah, exactly.
Jaimie Fuller (05:45):
When you say you hold it down and stop it, wait
for my rest and then go again.
Yeah, exactly, when you say youhold it down, you just double
click to stop it.
Let's just step back a bit,because ideally, what you want
to do when you first get them isdo a baseline and, depending on
what you swim, danielle, so ifyou're a triathlete and your
(06:06):
main purpose is competitionwhere you're swimming, say, 2k
legs or 1,500, 1.5k legs, whatyou'll want to do is your very
first swim.
You'll do 1.5K.
Likewise, if you're acompetitive pool swimmer, that
your thing is the 400 or the 200, you want to capture that
(06:30):
before you start using thesystem and that becomes your
baseline.
And that's the thing that youkeep coming back to as you're
tracking your progress over time, progress over time.
So for me it was about 800meters.
So I did my 800 meters and thenI'd train during the week and
(06:52):
I'd play around and I'd do 50sand 100s and twos and I'd do
trial and error and I'd try andget less down and more
propulsive.
I'd try and get that elbow uphigher.
I'd play with that.
But then, every, every weekend,I'd do an 800 meter time trial
and that way, over time, I couldtrack my progress, not just
with my time but with all of theindividual metrics, including
(07:15):
things like distance per strokeor number of strokes per lap, my
percentage of of energy orforce.
That's propulsive, because wesplit it up and we show you, for
example, on that baseline,we'll show you of the 100%, how
much is moving back towards yourfeet, how much is moving
(07:38):
laterally, how much is movingdown or up at the back end of
your stroke.
So we give you that data andthen you can look at that over
time with your objective to tochange and to bring as much
propulsion into play as you can.
We've also got an idea of yourgoals, of what you would want to
(08:00):
achieve ideally, differentlyfor a distance swimmer as for a
sprinter, because the sprinter'sgot a straight arm, so they
tend to get more downward forceat the beginning, before the
catch, whereas a distanceswimmer has got that high elbow
goes over the barrel and theytend to have less downward force
and a higher percentage ofpropulsion.
(08:21):
So you you can track your totalforce or the amount of power
that you're pushing.
You can track the directionit's going.
You can track the number oflaps, the number of strokes per
lap, your distance per stroke.
You can track all of theseindividual things and you can
see your progress over time asyou make those changes.
Danielle Spurling (08:43):
When you get that data and we'll have a look
at that in a moment do you haveany sort of touchstones for
people to have a look to seewhat other sort of what their
ideal is, or is that purely justyour own sort of metrics that
you're going against?
Jaimie Fuller (09:01):
So, it's a little bit of both.
It's primarily just about youand the system, because swimming
is such a difficult sport andwe're all very individual and
we've all got our ownidiosyncrasies.
It might be to do withflexibility.
It might be to do with where weswitch on which muscles at what
(09:25):
point in the stroke and whathand path we need to take in
order to maximize the power thatwe're trying to find and bring
it against the water.
So as much as people say to meoh gee, jamie, can you show me
an Olympian's hand path and I'llcopy that, I say no, no, no.
You.
You show me an Olympian's handpath and I'll copy that, I say
(09:45):
no, no, no, you don't want to dothat.
This is primarily about youagainst you.
It's not about you comparing tosomebody else.
So look, my force profile issensation.
My force profile is probablybetter than most Olympic
swimmers.
My times are absolute rubbish.
(10:11):
The reason is because I have akick that does absolutely
nothing and I have horrendousbody drag.
So I have to make up for myterrible body position and my
lack of core strength and mylack of core strength and my
lack of overall swimming abilityby having a much better stroke,
or propulsion, if you like.
(10:32):
So when I look at Kyle Chalmersand I was with Kyle the week
before the Olympic trials when Ilook at the amount of force
that he's pushing and where thatforce is being applied, it's,
frankly, considerably less thanI do pushing, and where that
force is being applied, it's,frankly, considerably less than
I do.
But you know, I mean I also.
(10:56):
I also watched him do a 50meters with a kickboard in 32
seconds.
Now, the good news for me is,when I use the kickboard, I
don't go backwards.
Quite a lot of things gobackwards with the kickboard.
The bad news is, I hardly moveforward.
So so there are all these otherexternal factors that come into
play, but when it comes down tome, looking at me and my data
and comparing over the time andmaking changes and looking at
(11:18):
the outcome of those changes,that's what this is about.
So having, though, when we dolook at what we call the force
field, which is how we breakthose forces up in percentage
terms, we have a pretty clearidea of what everybody should be
aiming for, and it is slightlydifferent for a sprinter to a
(11:39):
distance swim, and so when Ihave my one-on-one sessions that
I do with our customers who buythe stuff, buy the tech, and
then they go and use it and thenthey want a little bit of help
in interpreting it.
So we set up these Zoom callsand share screen and go over it
and I show them, I walk themthrough it.
Danielle Spurling (12:01):
Invariably I can talk to them about what
their objective should be in theforce field, based on whether
they're a sprint or a distancewith them I mean it's intriguing
because obviously I used itprobably six, seven weeks ago
when we first spoke and thefeedback you gave me then made
(12:21):
me think a lot about what I wasdoing with my stroke and there
was a lot of downward push andI've been thinking about unusual
, yeah, which is not unusual,but a lot I thought, much more
than I thought I was doing, soI've been thinking about that a
little bit over this time, soit'll be interesting when we
look at my data to see whetherthat has improved at all.
Jaimie Fuller (12:44):
Daniel, the bottom line is, if you can,
because in the time I spent inthe US last year going around
and talking to a lot of NCAAcoaches and swimmers and doing
demos and looking at data, I wasblown away by the amount of
NCAA sw2a swimmers who weredidn't have much in the in the
(13:08):
wave propulsion and they had waytoo much downward force.
A lot of them more than half oftheir total energy expenditure
is the hand pushing down andthere are a bunch of reasons why
this can happen and some of itis as simple as you know.
When you we know from a from amiddle distance or a distance
(13:28):
swimmer, we know that you wantto get that high elbow catch and
go over the barrel.
I mean it's it's pretty basic,but you'd be amazed at the
amount of these guys where theirfirst move is actually a drop
of the elbow and the moment thatelbow drops that hand and the
moment that elbow drops, thathand has got to push down
further and that in itself is amassive contributor to having
(13:50):
too much downward force.
Instead of that elbow kicking,you know, at the end of the
glide and kicking to get thatcatch, it goes the other way and
the ramifications of that aresevere.
Danielle Spurling (14:03):
Yeah, the other way and the, the
ramifications of that is severe.
Yeah, and I think actually,looking at um sort of older
athletes so sort of like masterswimmers, I think a little bit
of that is also shoulderflexibility, so that sort of
comes into it as well, becausewhen you're getting that early I
know I'm disappearing in hereum early vertical forearm, it
actually decreases the space inthe shoulder capsule, so it is a
lot harder for inflexible olderathletes to actually get into
(14:27):
that sort of position.
So I think this kind of data isreally, you know, great to have
, because they know that thenmaybe they need to work a little
bit on that shoulderflexibility and getting into the
right position so they're nothurting their shoulder, no
question.
Jaimie Fuller (14:42):
So they're not hurting their shoulder, no
question.
And it reveals all this stuffand it stresses, and you'd be
amazed at the gap that existsbetween what my brain thinks I'm
doing and what I'm really doing.
It's terrifying.
I had a guy in Bergen in Norwaytell me oh, look our hand,
(15:05):
path's no good because it says.
He said to me, it says that myhand is going into the glide
across my body like this.
And I know, he said, I know I'mgliding straight.
And he went and invested in aGoPro camera with a little
cradle and a suction cup that hestuck against the end of the
lane and swam towards it.
(15:25):
And he contacted me, absolutelyhorrified because when he saw
himself on video, the hands, thehands were coming into glass
and in his mind he wasabsolutely certain that it was
straight.
And this happens quite a lot,with a brain saying one thing
but the the body's doing.
Danielle Spurling (15:43):
Yeah, it's very interesting, isn't it Very
interesting?
I'll share my screen with youand we can have a bit of a look
at what we'd like to look at.
First, the force field.
Jaimie Fuller (15:55):
Well, first of all, pick your swim.
Is this the swim you want tofocus on?
Danielle Spurling (15:58):
Yeah, I mean I just did a number of.
Now this was in a 25 metre pool.
Yeah, they're all pretty muchthe same.
Let's just look at this one.
That's fine, I tell you what.
Go to the one below becauseit's a faster time.
Jaimie Fuller (16:12):
It's 41 seconds.
Danielle Spurling (16:13):
I think I was doing 25 fast, 25 easy, so it'd
be interesting to see thedifference.
Jaimie Fuller (16:21):
Okay.
So what you're looking at hereis the summary.
It's a summary at the top andit tells you where the pool is,
what the distance you swam, thepool length, the time it took,
total number of strokes, youraverage stroke rate, your
distance per stroke and yourforce per stroke.
So that's just a swim summary.
(16:42):
And then you're looking at thetwo laps down the bottom.
The orange is your left hand,the blue is your right.
So you can see you've actuallygot a dominant left hand, you're
pushing more force through yourleft and then the green line on
top that's your stroke rate.
And if you hover your pointerabove the green line on top,
that's your stroke rate.
And if you hover your pointerabove the green line, see, your
(17:04):
stroke rate on lap two was 36.
Then you go to lap one, move abit further over and you were
stroke rate of 40.
So, as you said, you were sortof pushed more on lap one and
then you slowed down on lap two.
So that's total force.
Now if you click on force fieldon the tab force field, this is
(17:26):
where we get to see where thoseforces are being applied.
And so we're looking at lap one.
We've got both hands switched onand you can see that you're
only getting a third of yourenergy as propulsive.
You're only getting a third ofyour energy is propulsive.
More than half of it is pushingdown and the rest is split,
primarily laterally.
You've got more force pushingto the right direction than you
(17:49):
do to the left, so you're 8.3 inthe right direction and 4.7 in
the left.
I would hazard a guess thatthat is your left hand, so
that's for both hands combined.
If you go and switch off theright hand down the bottom,
please, on the left, if youswitch, that little yep and
(18:12):
you'll see there.
Yeah, see, the left hand ispushing to the right 14%.
Your propulsion remains thesame and your downward remains
the same.
So both hands are consistentpropulsively and downward, but
you've got a slight imbalancelaterally.
So let's have a look at yourconsistency and see what your
(18:33):
consistency can tell us.
So we might as well turn it onall left and all right, please.
Okay, so you can see.
In fact, could you switch offthe right please, and we'll just
look at the left.
What you can see here is you'vegot several strokes that are
coming right across your centreline and I would hazard a guess
(18:57):
that you breathe to the right.
Daniel, yes, correct, okay, andI think you might find that
those strokes that are crossingover further, I think you might
find those could be yourbreathing strokes.
So if you clear all selected,please Right, and now click two,
(19:19):
four and six.
Right now, sorry, unclick twoand I'm trying to look for a
pattern to see.
And eight, click eight, please.
I think you'll find that yourbreathing strokes are four, six
and eight.
I don't know what happened totwo, but that's telling us that
you've got a distinct differencein your breathing strokes to
(19:43):
your non-breathing strokes,which is happening because your
head rotation is not as optimalas it could be and it should be.
We know that the best swimmers,when they breathe, you just see
the corner of their mouth stickout of the water.
Their objective is to minimizethe head rotation because we
(20:04):
don't want to affect theshoulders or the body balance at
all, so that head rotationwanted to be independent of
everything else.
And if you've got that, thenyou won't have what we're
looking at here, which is thatsignificant difference for that
left hand during the breathingphase.
And what I tell people, ifthey're unsure, is put a snorkel
(20:28):
on, take the head rotation out,put a snorkel on, take the
readings and you should seethose hand paths balance each
other out.
Danielle Spurling (20:38):
No, I agree, I know that they're different
and I know that.
Yes, because of flexibility, Ithink I'm definitely crossing
over when I breathe to balanceout the stroke.
Jaimie Fuller (20:52):
That's why I always swim with a snorkel.
I have flexibility issues too,in my neck, and I basically
wreck my body if I try andbreathe.
So for me, I'm never going tocompete, I'm never going to be
racing anybody, I just do it forme.
So snorkel on all the time, andit means I can swim distances
(21:13):
that ordinarily I couldn't.
Danielle Spurling (21:16):
The other thing I look at is symmetry.
Jaimie Fuller (21:18):
So if you wouldn't mind selecting all of
the left and the right, please?
And what we're looking for hereis ideally a mirror,
particularly in the overhead.
So we look at the side on viewand we want to see ideally both
of them coming down to the samedepth.
We're looking for that balanceand particularly in the middle,
(21:39):
for the overhead view, we'relooking to see the hand paths
mirror one another.
It's not unusual to see somebodywith one hand path doing this
and the other doing that.
You know it's and it highlightsthings that you should focus on
and potential injuries.
You know, quite often you'llhave somebody that's had
(22:00):
shoulder surgery and gettingback to we're talking before
about flexibility, you knowthey've got a problem with one
particular shoulder and theycan't get that range of motion
Either way.
It makes you ask the questionand it might be down to seeing a
physical therapist or a physioand getting worked on, and they
might discover that you've gotsome sort of blockage, something
(22:23):
that's stopping you from havingthe range of motion that you
not only need for swimming butyou need for good general health
, and then you can identifythose problems and start working
on them, should we?
have a look at lap two, please,Danielle, if you click down the
bottom on two and then selectthe strokes again, yeah, it's a
(22:46):
pretty much the same sort ofpattern you can really see on
the right hand side, the head on.
You can see the width and howthat left hand is cutting right
across your center line.
You can see how it reallystands out on that head where
it's coming down in a loop andthen going back.
Danielle Spurling (23:06):
Yeah, really, it's coming over a long way,
isn't it?
Jaimie Fuller (23:10):
Let's have a look at force versus time, because
this is where it gets reallyinteresting, in that we can now
look inside the stroke, and sothis looks a little bit
intimidating at first, and I'lltell you what we're going to do.
Can you turn off the right hand, please?
I'm going to ask you are youable just to select in the
middle, say the middle, fourstrokes, if you click on one and
(23:34):
then hold it down?
And then, yeah, just click onthat and hold it down and then
move it over?
Yep, keep going, going a bitfurther.
There you go, and you can letthat go.
Right now, what we're looking atis we've blown them up and each
of those spikes is a stroke.
So you can see we're looking atfour strokes there, and what's
(23:57):
important on here is to be ableto read the three phases of
glide, pull and recovery.
And so if we take the one onthe left and to the right of the
one on the left where it goesflat, this one here Exactly, and
just come back a bit furtherback, a bit further right there,
that's where the hand isexiting the water, and then the
(24:22):
hand is in recovery and whilstit's in recovery, it's out of
the water.
It's not measuring any force,which is why that's flat line on
the zero.
And if you can move to theright, please right to there.
And right there is where thehand is now entering the glide.
And you can see how it goesnegative during the glide, and
(24:43):
that negative force indicateshand drag.
And we don't want, during theglide phase, we don't want to be
presenting the palm of the handto the water in front of us,
because that's effectivelyapplying a break.
And that's what you see thereon each of those strokes, and
some of them worse than others.
So the one before you can seeis the worst, that's bad.
(25:06):
Yep, you've got a lot of handdrag there, whereas the one, uh,
sort of second from the rightis the best one.
Where you've got that one.
There you don't have that much,but that's indicating.
So your hand, as it's goinginto the glide, is doing that.
Now it can be because the wristis dropping or the elbow is
dropping, but either way, a goodglide is constantly heading
(25:32):
downward at a slight angle andyou shouldn't be doing that at
all in your glide, because ifyou don't do that, it actually
becomes slightly propulsive asopposed to putting on a brake,
and at the end of the glide youcan see.
And if you go just to the rightof where you were there, oh,
yes, here.
Yeah, that one there.
And you can see we start topull and you can see the
(25:54):
propulsion increases and it goesup and then something happens
and it drops off, drops offagain, and then it goes up and
then something happens and itdrops off again and then it goes
up again.
And so the question is why am Ilosing that propulsion?
What am I doing that's gettingme propulsive?
And then suddenly I'm losingthe propulsion and then it's
coming back, and it's not assimple as I'm.
(26:18):
I'm starting my pool, I get toa point and I stop and have a
holiday, and then I go again.
It's not quite as simple, andI'll show you how we can
diagnose this.
Danielle Spurling (26:30):
We'll be back with Jamie after this short
break.
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(26:51):
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And now back to Jamie.
Jaimie Fuller (27:15):
And I'll show you how we can diagnose this.
And I'll show you how we candiagnose this.
So the beauty about this littlebaby here.
If you click on the wordlateral down at the bottom,
please, what?
This then does?
Is this, then, shows us the twovectors we're looking at the
propulsive and lateral force?
Can you please select thosefour strokes that we were
(27:37):
looking at Now?
to tell you how we read this,you see the propulsive.
We talked about the propulsivewaveform.
How simple it is to read thatwhen we look at the lateral, the
lateral forces are either goingto be positive or negative.
When the lateral forces arepositive, it means that the
(27:59):
hands are facing outwards.
When the lateral forces arenegative, the hands are facing
inwards.
So you can effectively picturein your mind's eye and if you
take that first stroke on theleft and you can see we've
already talked about the handdrag, I've used my left hand,
we've talked about the hand dragat the same time it's positive.
(28:23):
So not only have you got handdrag, but that hand is is aimed
outwards during your glide,right because it's positive.
And then if you scroll across alittle further, right there, no
, back a bit, because whatyou're seeing is that hand
changes direction and so itstarts off in the glide facing
(28:44):
outwards as it starts to pull,it rotates and that's where
you're getting negative down thebottom.
See where that is, right there,if you just push the pointer
down, just so we can get rid ofthose things right.
And then if you go over alittle bit further to the right
right there, right you see it'sgot a change of direction, of
(29:07):
lateral.
Can you come back just awhisker, just to the point?
We're on that change rightthere, and that change of
direction coincides with youbottoming out your propulsion.
What that means is your hand isrotating as it's coming through
the stroke and what we want, iswe want that hand facing the
feet all the way back.
But what you're doing is you'regoing out and you're rolling and
(29:30):
you're coming in and thenyou're getting your second push.
Your push gives you your secondpeak.
And if you go over two strokesand have a look at the one in
the middle right there, you seeit looks a little bit like a
mirror between the propulsiveand the lateral and it shows you
that relationship that existsbetween a change in lateral
(29:52):
force direction and your force,either dropping off the cliff
propulsive dropping off thecliff or your propulsion
bottoming out and then goingback up.
Danielle Spurling (30:02):
Right, yeah, it's really really interesting.
Jaimie Fuller (30:06):
Okay Now can you go to the next chart, which is
stroke path and force.
Now can you click on stroke six, please, down the bottom, yep,
and click on the lateral on theright a bit further to the right
, and click on the lateral onthe right a bit further to the
right and then on top of thestroke path, the hand path.
So it's got side on overheadand head on.
(30:26):
Click on overhead, please.
So now what we're doing iswe're bringing this all together
where we're going to see thehand path, we're going to see
the force that play in thedirection, both propulsively and
laterally.
Now on the left-hand side whereit says time, there's a slider
(30:47):
and if you grab that red dot atthe top of the time, if you
click on that and hold it downand then start sliding that down
, you can see on the hand path.
that hand is moving where it ison the hand path, that hand is
moving where it is on the handpath and we can see right what's
going on here and where thoseforces are changing.
(31:08):
So if we come back up, please,and what I want to do is select,
I want to get to, I want toslide that slider down until
that red line on the rightcoincides with the first peak.
Danielle Spurling (31:21):
Oh, that next one up.
Jaimie Fuller (31:22):
Okay On that hand path is where your propulsive
force is about to go through thefloor and you can see on that
force chart it not only drops,it goes to zero.
So in the middle of that strokestroke you have no propulsion
at all.
So and at that stage where yourhand is there on that hand path
(31:47):
, in the middle, you'regenerating inward force.
So that hand is moving inwards,right and as it's moving
inwards and it's facing inwards,see that hand can move inwards
and still face the back, or itcan move inwards and face
inwards and and it's it's facinginwards, which means it's
(32:09):
generating that lateral force.
So if you grab that slideragain, please, daniel, and move
it a bit further to the bottomof the valley of the propulsion,
a bit further right there.
Ok, now, right there, if youlook on the hand path is the
extreme point on the right ofyour hand path and now your hand
(32:33):
path.
And if you look at your lateralforce, see the way your lateral
force it goes up and then comesback down where we're on that
peak of lateral.
That's a change in direction.
Hand is doing that at thatpoint which marries up with the
hand rotation, and then thatpoint where you're at there on
(32:59):
the hand path is effectivelywhere pull becomes push and that
push gives you the second.
Danielle Spurling (33:05):
Luckily the push is a little bit stronger,
because otherwise I'd be introuble.
Jaimie Fuller (33:11):
No, no, the push is good, but what your goal
should be is to get rid of thatrepulsive goal Exactly.
Danielle Spurling (33:19):
I know exactly what's happening there.
I turn in the old way we weretaught under the body, and what
I'm doing is I'm moving the handtoo far.
Jaimie Fuller (33:30):
And look, the beauty about this system is very
small changes in the hand angleshow up really clearly because
the impact is significant.
You'd be amazed at this.
Really small change can have adevastating effect on your
propulsion.
It really does.
(33:54):
It's about, and it's about onceagain, newton's third law.
If I want to go that way, myhand's got to be moving that way
.
And if you think about it right, if you imagine maximum force,
pushing maximum force through,at a certain point, your muscles
can't cope, your body can'tcope and something has to give.
(34:14):
And what gives is that handjust rotates.
Because if I move my hand likethat, or if I move it, it's so
much easier to move like that,I'm reducing the surface area,
or even going halfway reducesthe surface area.
You slip, you lose water andthat's exactly what that is.
(34:35):
It's telling you that you'reslipping.
Now mostly it's about beingaware of it, concentrating,
doing it and doing it again andhaving a look at the data and
having a look at the output likethis, and you'll see it improve
and change.
That's mostly what it's about.
Sometimes with some people it'sabout getting into the gym and
(35:00):
doing dry land work and buildingup their muscles so that they
can contain that, but itshouldn't be.
It should be more about I mean,I'm talking for us non-elites,
right, it should be more aboutan awareness thing.
And the other thing I've got totell you, daniel, the thing that
really makes this system sinkis when you take this and you
(35:23):
put it at the end of the lane ofthe pool.
You get in and you do two lapsand you stand in the shallow end
and whilst you're in the wateryou download it and you're
looking at the force field andthe force field tells you you're
33% propulsive and you think,okay, I'm now going to go again
and I'm going to concentrate,because I'm 51% down and 33%
(35:47):
propulsive.
I'm going to concentrate ontransitioning and going from the
end of the glide into thatposition very quickly, because
that's my downward force and Iwant to be done quickly,
efficiently and effectively.
So then I've got more repulsivetime and so you go and do
another two laps and youconcentrate on that, and then
(36:10):
you stand in the pool and youdownload it again.
It takes five seconds andyou've got the data and you
think, okay, I've gone from 33,33 propulsion, 51 down.
Suddenly you're at 46 percentpropulsive and 42 percent down.
I'm going to go again and againand again, and you'd be amazed
at how quickly you can get from33% to 60% plus per post.
Danielle Spurling (36:33):
Yeah.
Jaimie Fuller (36:34):
By concentrating on that.
It's what we call the fastfeedback loop.
Yeah, it's that.
As opposed to go and get thedata, go home, load it, look at
it and then think, okay,tomorrow I'm going to go back
and I'm going to do this, whichstill works, and frankly, it's
the way I did it and I'vedramatically changed my strength
by doing it.
I'd stop in a coffee shop onthe way home and I'd have a look
(36:57):
at my data.
I'd have a coffee, look at mydata, and then I'd go and I'd
implement the change the nextday.
It just sort of takes longer,whereas if you can do this with
that fast feedback loop, get itto where you want to get to.
And then it's about rinse andrepeat, rinse and repeat, rinse
and repeat.
You end up with your you knowyour muscle memory kicks in, you
(37:19):
ingrain it into your musclememory and then you go and look
at the next.
And that's the other thing.
So many people think they canchange multiple things at once.
No way.
One thing, focus on one thing,do it, do it, do it, do it, do
it and then move on to the nextyeah, look, I think that having
that biofeedback with the phoneat the end of the pool is really
(37:41):
good.
Danielle Spurling (37:41):
I didn't do that either.
Um, I, I did it all and then I.
Some of these may have beenbackstroke, I think they were.
Some of them were backstroke,but I don't know which ones,
because then I couldn't remember.
So I think.
Jaimie Fuller (37:54):
Well, you'll see backstroke if you look at the
consistency on any of them.
The backstroke charts are very,very clearly backstroke.
And what?
you should do is when you uploadthe data to your phone, you
select the stroke so you can doback butterfly and free.
We can't do breaststroke yetThat'll come later this year but
(38:16):
if you want to do backstrokeit's not a problem.
And then you upload it and youtell it it's backstroke and then
it'll show you all theprinciples still the same.
Newton's third law stillremains the same.
It's about that hand.
You know it's just inbackstroke.
You want that hand.
What you want is you want thathand facing your feet.
You don't want it like that.
You don't want it like that.
(38:37):
You don't want it comingthrough like that or like that.
You want it.
You want it as flush as you can, heading towards your feet
until you get near the end.
Danielle Spurling (38:47):
And it's exactly the same principle it's
an it's an amazing system and Ithink um I certainly already got
a lot from it just just fromusing it.
Um, when you said breaststrokewill be coming later in the year
, because a few people have umasked about that, when do you
(39:07):
know when that's coming?
Jaimie Fuller (39:09):
No, I don't, and the reason is we detect at the
moment it's about the strokedefinition of hand entry and
hand exit, and with breaststrokewe know that that doesn't
necessarily happen.
So we've got to reconfigure allthe algorithms.
It can be done, there's noquestion.
It's not a question of can itor can't it be done, it's more a
(39:31):
function of time and what haveyou?
Can I share my screen with you?
I want to show you something.
We can synchronise video anddata as well.
So if you want to capture video, what we do is we capture.
As you can see on here, we'recapturing that first flash, and
(39:59):
that first flash becomes thepoint to synchronize both.
So when I hit you, can see thisred line moving, because that's
that's recording, but it's notmeasuring anything because he's
not in the water.
But you'll see in a secondright.
Here is where it starts tocapture data, because that's
where the hands enter the water,and so you'll see in he comes.
(40:20):
Now the beauty about this is wecan blow this up and we can go
into here.
We can look and say, oh, lookat that big double peak, what's
his hand doing there?
And if I click right there, seewhat happens to the video.
it goes immediately to that spotand then, I can go frame by
(40:45):
frame and you'll see that redline move and as the red line
move and as the red line moves,so does the video.
And you can see in the video wecan now see the back of his hand
because that hand is rotatedright.
That hand is no longer pointing, which is why he's dropped this
propulsion there.
And if you want, you can switchthe left hand off.
(41:07):
We can put the lateral on, wecan blow this back up.
We can look at again.
If I come back here you'll seehere it's now got that slight
little bump there is becausethat hand is just slightly
facing outwards on the video andthen it's turning, it's going
(41:27):
to turn here and then, as that'sturning, that hand is now
turning and coming in.
We're now going to start togenerate this lateral force
inwards, as you see right, atthe same time as we're losing
that propulsion right.
And then he comes back for asecond peak right there.
(41:48):
Now that hand is facingperfectly backwards right here
as he's getting his maximumpropulsion right there.
And then if we want to see theleft hand, well, I'll turn the
right off, turn the left on, andthen we'll look at lap two,
(42:08):
because he'll be going back theother way and we might click
there.
And then, lo and behold, now wecan see what the left hand is
doing as it's coming throughfrom the other side.
So the ability to, becausequite a lot of swimmers need to
have visual proof as well.
Right, we were talking beforeabout the guy who thought that
(42:30):
his hands were going straight.
Well, quite a lot of people.
They need to see this, and whenyou're showing them and you're
explaining that your hand'sdoing this and you can see it in
the data and show what'shappening, when they see it on
the video and they can see.
Suddenly, now, from the side,we can see the back of the hand,
so it's not rotated fully, butit's at an angle.
Danielle Spurling (42:52):
then they get it so you just set up a um a
gopro to video this this one wasa gopro.
Jaimie Fuller (43:00):
You can use a mobile phone anything as long as
you can get a file.
It's as simple as that.
And then you, and then youdownload the file from your
device to your computer and thenthrough the platform because
you don't do the video on theapp, you do it on the platform
and then, through the platform,you upload it to the platform,
(43:22):
from your computer to theplatform.
You do the very simplesynchronizing, which is very
simple.
Like I said, it synchronizes tothe flash.
So if I take this back to thevery beginning, right there when
we hit play, you can see it'sflashing and that's the
synchronizing point, which thengoes on there.
Danielle Spurling (43:47):
It's super easy and it's great for coaches
and swimmers that want to getthat extra, that extra dimension
to it yeah, I mean, it's suchvaluable feedback and it, as you
say, you don't realize thatthose things are happening in
your stroke.
So to see it on the video, Ithink, is for a lot of athletes
are visual learners, so I thinkthat that is really, you know,
(44:10):
really important to go with thesports science advice as well.
Jaimie Fuller (44:16):
But the beauty about it is you can see very
clearly like this right hand hasgot double peaks.
As you can see, the left handtends not to have the double
peaks.
That first peak is very small.
It's a very different pattern.
You can see very have thedouble peaks, what it does.
That first peak is very small.
It's a very different pattern.
You can see very clearly thatdouble peak and so if you just
had the video, you're not goingto see that no, exactly.
Danielle Spurling (44:37):
You need both parts to fit together like a
jigsaw.
Yeah.
Jaimie Fuller (44:40):
You're not going to understand, but that's why,
also, you can appreciate.
That's why this chart here,when we were talking about this
before, um, you know this, thischart here is the nearest we've
got to doing a video.
Without a video, yeah, to beable to look at what that hand
(45:03):
position is here and again.
Here you can see, look, thathand is going to change
direction laterally there.
As it's changing direction,look what happens to the
propulsion right, and in thiscase it's the right hand yours
was the left hand sweeping in.
In this case it's the righthand sweeping out and it hits
that point of maximum outwardposition here and then it
(45:27):
rotates and as it rotates and itcomes in force, drops off and
then from here to here, it'sgetting that inward lateral
force, which is what's down hereand then here, as you can see,
it's going to push back.
From there it back, and that'swhere we get that second peak.
Danielle Spurling (45:49):
Fantastic data.
I love it, it's cool, isn't ityeah?
It's really cool.
It really really is, jamie.
Thank you so much for joiningus today on the podcast.
I'm really really pleased thatyou came back and we got this
download video so people canactually see what we were
talking about.
So that they can, you know.
Jaimie Fuller (46:10):
Well, let's hope your recording skills are better
than the last one.
Danielle Spurling (46:12):
We're blaming the cloud.
Jaimie Fuller (46:13):
We're blaming the cloud let's hope we do have it
recorded.
Danielle Spurling (46:17):
I think we will okay.
Jaimie Fuller (46:21):
Thanks, jamie, take care good on you, dan
Danielle.
Thank you.
Danielle Spurling (46:24):
Okay, bye, take care.
Bye.
Thanks for listening intotoday's episode.
Check out the video to thispodcast over on our YouTube
channel.
We'll put the link in today'sshow notes.
We'll also put a link to EOSports Lab so that, if you want
to check out these handsets foryourself, you can have a look at
(46:45):
their website and go from there.
And a big shout out to SarahLouise, john Travers, jeff
Miller and Abby Conrad, who allbecame our very first
subscribers this last week.
Your support means the world.
If you want to join them, don'tforget to subscribe to the show
through following the link inour Instagram bio at Torpedo
Swim Talk podcast or via thebutton on our Torpedo Swim Talk
(47:09):
website.
Hope to see you in our SwimTalkers group soon.
Till next time.
Happy swimming and bye for now.
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