Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast with Bobby Hurley - World Records To World Class Coaching

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World champion and former short-course world record holder Bobby Hurley joins me for a ripper Torpedo Swimtalk episode — from winning the World SC 50 Back in Istanbul to racing everything from the 50 back to the 1500 free, then flipping the script as a coach and World Aquatics commentator. We get into range, resilience, and how the sport’s shifting toward stronger, more athletic swimmers — plus his current role leading the program at Tanglin School in Singapore.

Why listen: Bobby’s one of the rare swimmers to master both sprint backstroke and long-distance freestyle — and he shares exactly how he trained both ends of the spectrum. We unpack his pivot from missing Olympic teams to claiming a world title, then moving into coaching world champions Chad Le Clos and Cameron van der Burgh. Bobby dives into how late-career PB's are becoming the norm thanks to smarter training loads, strength work, and mental-health support, and he breaks down the short-course tools that made him a world champion — underwaters, rhythm, and race-day precision. He shares how he prepares to commentate for World Aquatics and keep his insights sharp, and we chat about how adding the form-stroke 50s to the Olympics is changing the sport. Bobby also reflects on racing the 50 back at Masters Worlds in Singapore — including what he’d tweak if he raced long course again, and how Masters swimming reminded him that joy matters just as much as results.

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Episode Transcript

Danielle Spurling (00:05):
Hello, swimmers, and welcome to Torpedo
Swim Talk, the podcastcelebrating swimmers at every
stage, from Masters Legends toOlympic champions.
I'm your host, DanielleSpurling, and each week we dive
into inspiring conversationsfrom around the world about
performance, resilience, and thepure love of swimming.

(00:27):
My guest today is Bobby Hurley,world champion, former world
record holder, and the rareathlete who could win everything
from the 50 back to the 1500freestyle.
His career has spanned eliteracing, elite coaching, and now
leading the program at TanglinSchool in Singapore.
Plus, you'll know his voicefrom the World Aquatics

(00:49):
commentary.
Let's hear from Bobby now.
Hi Bobby, welcome to thepodcast.

Bobby Hurley (01:01):
Hi Danielle, yeah, thanks for having me.
Excited to uh to chat allthings swimming with you for the
next uh 30 minutes or howeverlong we uh we end up speaking
for today.

Danielle Spurling (01:10):
No, it's really really great of you.
I know you've got such a busyschedule as you're the director
of swimming at the TanglinSchool in Singapore.

Bobby Hurley (01:18):
Yeah, um I've been here for for over three years
now, and um I guess it was areally fortunate opportunity.
Um, and I feel like sinceretiring from swimming, I've
I've been lucky enough to haveto have a few of these
opportunities.
But I was, I guess, approachedfor the role from a colleague
back in Australia that thoughtum, I guess one that that I had

(01:38):
the skills and um I was capableof of doing a really good job
here at a at an internationalschool, a British school.
Um, but obviously Singapore'smade up of a lot of
international schools, but butalso it's it's been he thought
and and it has been a reallygood fit for my family.
Um, you know, my wife'sRussian, um, my mum's Filipino
as well, so we've got a lot ofmixed mixed um heritage in my

(02:01):
family, and and my kids havebeen fortunate enough to to move
countries, um, go to aninternational school, and and
then we travel all around Asiaand we've been over to Russia
and Europe a few times as wellas a family.
So traveling was somethingthat's um really important,
important to us as as a family,um, and still involved in in
coaching and and at a schoollevel as well.
Um, and it and it cont uh Iguess it goes well with my

(02:24):
commentating as well that I dowith Walt Aquatics for the World
Championship.
So it's a good uh it's a goodlife balance here, and I'm
really happy.

Danielle Spurling (02:31):
And what does a sort of a day, a typical day,
look like at Tanglin?
Is it teaching or mainlycoaching?

Bobby Hurley (02:37):
Um no, it's still yeah, it's still mainly
coaching.
Um, so we have eight swimmingsessions a week for for my
squad, but um you know overall II manage the program um for the
co-curricular program, so notPE swimming and curriculum
swimming.
Um but we've got 600 kids inthe whole program from learner
swim all the way up, and it'sjust internals, so it's a little

(02:58):
bit different to Australiawhere they allow externals to
come in.
It's it's strictly internals,it's strictly students.
So, in terms of that, there's alot more um pastoral care and
safeguarding that goes intolooking after each and every one
of those um students, all theway from three years old, is
when they start school here.
So we've got an infant learn toswim program all the way up to
18-year-olds, so it's um prettybusy.

(03:19):
And then the last 12 monthsI've been coaching uh a
Singapore national team swimmeras well, Amanda Lim.
She's 32 years old, so shecomes in during the day um and
uses our facilities.
And I coach her, and she racedthe 50 freestyle at uh World
Championships a few months agoand is preparing for the
Southeast Asian Games inDecember this year.
So I still um wanted to have uhI guess skin in the game at

(03:42):
that high performance level andhave somebody that's um you know
a professional athlete that'sreally focused towards their
goals.
So that combines in well withfirstly with my my day and then
also um uh coaching the schoolprogram.
Yeah, uh Amanda um she swam inBrisbane in 2024 for six months
leading up to the Olympic trialswith with uh David Lush in

(04:05):
Brisbane um and did two PBs at31 years old, which is pretty
impressive in the 53 and 100free, and missed the Olympic
team by a few one hundredths ofa second, which is uh uh uh uh
as I know, but uh pretty prettyheartbreaking.
Uh and she wanted to be inAustralia again and and do
things differently.
Um so you know, again, withwith my intentions of having a

(04:27):
bit of skin in the game at thatlevel, and um, you know, I'm
good friends with uh with TimLane, who's who's my mentor and
one of my best mates, and whathe's done with Ken McAvoy, we've
tried to um add a little bit ofthat to her program um and and
keep her swimming at a highlevel for the remainder of her
career um for the next year ortwo.
And she also did swim mastersin in Singapore uh recently.

(04:49):
So she's one of the I think shewas the only athlete that swam
at World Champs and at Masters.
Uh and she obviously won the 50freestyle for her age group uh
at Masters as well.
But um, yeah, it's been a um Iguess a challenge, but also um
it's good to see her enjoyingher swimming at this age and
still striving towards hergoals.
Yeah.

Danielle Spurling (05:09):
I mean, that's amazing to get that that
time at 31.
And we're we're seeing thatmore, more and more, like with
with Cam actually and then otherswimmers.
Just the um this last weekendthe British Masters
Championships have been on, anda few people have posted um you
know, times, lifetime PBs.

Bobby Hurley (05:26):
Yeah, well, I I mean in all sports, I guess it's
carrying on like theprofessionalism of of sports,
sports science recoveryprotocols.
Um, you know, you look atLeBron James, who's 41 years
old, uh playing NBA at you know,still one of the best
basketball players in the world.
Tom Brady through to his uh40s, Cameron Smith in rugby
league was I think 39 when heretired playing 400 plus NRL

(05:50):
games.
So, you know, that's certainlytracking upwards, which is
giving, and obviously with moreand more money going into, I
wouldn't say swimming, but otherprofessional sports.
They want to be involved insports for longer, so they're
gonna take care of their bodies.
Um, and you know, we're seeingswimmers do PBs and perform at
their best well into their 30s.
Um, I'm sort of looking forwardto, you know, in in five or 10

(06:13):
years' time, we'll get ageneration of athletes that
also, for lack of a better word,weren't flogged in their youth,
you know.
Um, so they're gonna get to 25and 30 in a much better position
than Ken McAvoy did or AmandaLim did, or myself, in terms of
um, you know, theirunderstanding of the sport and
what their body needs, but alsojust, you know, a lot less

(06:33):
mileage in their shoulders andand overall body, and probably
less intense scrutiny from afrom a mental health point of
view.
You know, that that's certainlybeen a big shift, I think, on
the Australian team and in sportin general is um taking the
pressure off everybody, um,having a psychologist and and
people being open to workingwith with sports psychologists

(06:55):
and looking after their mentalhealth, whereas it wasn't really
something that was ever talkedabout in sports, you know, even
not that long ago when I wasswimming, let alone um 15 or 20
years ago.

Danielle Spurling (07:05):
Well, what's your stance on on say a Cam
McAvoy type person, having doneall that sort of slog in the
early years and obviously wasworking for the 100 free?
Now shifting that to his threesessions a week, very, very
minor, not minor, but very smallamount of Ks that he does per

(07:26):
week.
Do you think that you can cometo that without doing that slog
background?
Because a lot of people thinkyou still have to do that, and
then once you've got that sortof base, you can go to that
sprint format that Cam's doing.
What's your stance?

Bobby Hurley (07:39):
Well, that's the um that's a million-dollar
question, isn't it?
Um, I I guess, you know, andI've been asked this before, but
probably the the first thing toacknowledge is that Kim McAvoy
is really, really talented.
He was talented as a15-year-old, he was talented as
an 18-year-old.
You know, um, I think he went54 low and 100 backstroke as a

(08:04):
teenager.
He's done 400 freeze.
Like this guy's one of the mosttalented athletes that we've
seen in the pool on the men'sside for the last few decades.
But no, we didn't we sawglimpses of his best, but it
wasn't a consistent, glitteringcareer over the space of his
first three three Olympicexperiences, right?
And and he's been able tofigure out what he needs and

(08:26):
what what he wants to do toperform in the 50.
And originally he did want tofocus on that hundred as well,
but it um you know the prioritywas to just win that Olympic
gold in the 50.
Um, and you know, how he's beenable to transition that, but
but Cam's also very staunch thatif if he I guess had the
confidence and and the knowledgeto apply aspects of what he's

(08:49):
doing now earlier in his career,it would have benefited him.
The the other bit I would sayis that there's no, if you've
got a really talented 10 or11-year-old, there's no sprint
training for a 10-year-old kid,right?
That you're not training speed,that there's no anaerobic
capacity for anybody who'spre-puberty, right?
It's it's all technique, andyou can make more gains in your

(09:10):
aerobic base than you can inyour anaerobic, probably to the
age of 15 or 16.
So I think there's an elementof, and I like even with my
program that people got to stepthrough the hoops of of the
sport.
You've got to you've got to sitat the pool for 12 hours on a
weekend and swim three times,right?
You've got to do relay relayswith your teammates, you've got
to do training camps, um, you'vegot to fly in the state and be

(09:33):
able to race on a six-day meet,you know.
So there's elements of aerobiccapacity that goes in in all of
that as well.
But um the the main bit is I Ithink if if somebody doesn't
want to do it, then then thecoach has got to be out
adaptable to be able to get themost out of that person's
potential or their talent,right?
Um, you know, I I swam probably10 times a week since the age

(09:57):
of 14 or 15, but but I loved it.
I loved training.
All my mates did it, it wasvery normalized, my sister did
it, and I enjoyed the process.
So um, you know, it was alwaysmore volume, more training, the
better you're gonna get.
And for a long time, those werethe results that I got, but I
was never forced to do iteither.
So I I enjoyed that process.
But um, yeah, up at Somervillewith with Tim Lane, he's got

(10:21):
Josh Conyus there who's you know22 low as a as a 16,
17-year-old, and and he's doinga very low amount of volume as
well.
So there's you know, you've gotone person in their 30s who's
the best in the world, and oneperson who's a teenager who's
the best in the world in theirage group.
So that project with Tim andJosh will be uh uh you know
interesting to watch over thenext few years.

Danielle Spurling (10:42):
Yeah, watch this space.

Bobby Hurley (10:44):
Yeah, yeah.

Danielle Spurling (10:46):
Taking it back to just you rather than
more of a general thing, you'veworld record holder,
multi-distance specialist, andyou were that rare mix of a
mid-distance freestyler, butalso a sprint backstroker.
So you did the four and theeight hundred free, and even the
1500, 50 and 100 back.
That's a really unusual combo.
How on earth did you train forthat?

Bobby Hurley (11:07):
Yeah, I I guess summarising my career, like um I
had success in all thoseevents, so I trained for them at
different points.
Um, so I can understand whatdistance swimmers are going
through, what sprinters aregoing through, what what older
athletes are going through.
Um, but as a teenager, I was Iwas just a sprint 1500 um, you

(11:28):
know, fly back, maybe a 200 imevery now and then.
But um, and my sister was thesame.
So I think genetically, youknow, we had long arms and and a
really low stroke rate, and Iwasn't strong in the gym, but
technically we were pretty good.
Um so I think you know,physiologically uh I was a
sprinter.
Um then I because I again Ienjoyed the process of training,

(11:54):
and um in the year above me atschool and at and at swimming
was um well, people might mightknow Josh Minogue, who won the
cooling out of gold, Iron Man,um, commentator now for for the
surf.
And Josh was like a hard ass200 fly, 400 freestyle trainer,
like one of the toughest guysthat you'll ever do a workout

(12:14):
with.
So that was to me, that wasjust that was normal.
That's Josh led the squad andwe all had to go with him.
So when I was about 17, I justjumped into the into the
distance group.
Um, and I I plateaued a littlebit, and I just did a couple of
70, 80k weeks with him throughyear 12 in school.
And again, we we thought it wascool, we thought it was fun

(12:35):
just doing 10, 8k long coursesessions in Wollongong with uh
with Ron McKean as our coach.
Then I did my first 400freestyle at 18 and went um 401,
I think it was, and then wentto nationals that year, and um
Neg split a 354, um yeah, andand got six at Open Nationals

(12:57):
that never even you know nevergot an age medal at nationals
before and got six at opennationals behind Gren Hacken and
Craig Stevens.
So this is the back end of2006, and um and then got
recruited to go to the AIS as aas a mid-distance freestyler,
but I was so new into it, andand I went there and Doug Frost
was my first coach, and thenVince Rayleigh there, and

(13:18):
everybody only ever knew me as amid-distance freestyle.
And I was like, hang on, likeI'm a pretty good sprint
backstroker, and you know, Ialways prided myself on
underwater kick.
I loved underwater kicking setsand just being able to hold my
breath longer than everybodyelse and and little things like
that.
Um, but the older guys therenever really believed me, and
then um it was 18 months later,um, I broke the world record in

(13:41):
the 50 backstroke, which I meanI'd had some really good short
course backstroke success atthat point.
And and again, I was myunderwater was was definitely my
my strongest point.
Um but I swam, you know, what Ihaven't really said before in
other podcasts, like I broke theworld record on a Sunday
afternoon in Sydney at the WorldCup.
Um, and I've got logbooks ofthis.

(14:02):
I swam 50k that week and brokethe 50 back world record on a
Sunday afternoon.
Um, I think being in the water,obviously double Saturday,
double Sunday, I think I was inthe water like 11 times um that
week.
But you know, I had the aerobiccapacity to to perform um at a
high level for a long time.
But um, yeah, I realized I'vedone a long talk, a lot of

(14:24):
talking, and we've only got tothe start.

Danielle Spurling (14:25):
But I'm so interested.

Bobby Hurley (14:28):
Yeah, I I guess quickly, quickly to move through
it.
It was probably in the end likea gift and a curse that it was
I was so versatile and I wasgood at really good at obviously
short course backstroke, um,but long course was never as
strong.
Um, and you know, even after Ibroke that world record in

(14:48):
October 2008, I think it'salmost 16 years, 17 years to the
day, uh, which is crazy tothink.
But um in 2009, you know, withwith Vince, um, Grant Hackett
and Craig Stevens both retired.
So I got third in the 400 freeat um Beijing Olympic trials,
and fourth in the 200-back,fifth in the 100-back.
So I got third, fourth, andfifth of those Olympic trials.

(15:10):
But I was pretty young, missedthe team.
But my opportunities were goingto come in the distance
freestyle, whereas we had um AshJelaney and Hayden Stokel in
the backstroke.
So that 2009 I was and 2010 Iwas all 400 up, you know.
Um, so we we trained for the1500 free and and I and I went
upwards towards that.
So it's pretty crazy.
I broke the world record in the50 back, and literally after

(15:32):
that World Cup tour, uh, I wastraining for the 1500 freestyle.
But yeah, maybe you can askVince what what the mindset was
behind that.
But but again, I I agreed.
I went, yeah, that's my ticketonto the Australian team.
Went to Rome, swimming the 4,8, and 15 there, and um, and
that was the focus for the nextfew years.
But you know, again, inhindsight, that I I had a couple

(15:56):
of good 1500 freestyles.
I went 1432 short course and 15minutes flat long course, but I
and I enjoyed the training forthat.
My stroke was suited for that,but I I don't think my body was
suited for that.
Probably after 18 months of ofof that high volume long course
training, um, my body started tobreak down.

(16:16):
I got glandular fever, got alot of shoulder, shoulder
problems, and my mind wanted todo it, but my body couldn't do
it anymore.
Um, and and you know, uh thenwhenever that happened, then
I've gone, oh well, I'll switchback to the backstroke.
And then I I narrowly missedthe London Olympic team as well.
And and from that point, therewas a lot of too-ing and froing

(16:38):
between short course, longcourse, freestyle backstroke,
going to the US and back toAustralia and changing coaches,
changing programs.
But that's probably when Ilearned the most about myself
and about the sport, and um gotto travel and live in the US and
and do a few uh be successfulat a lot more World Cup tours as
well.
So um I think that that um youknow seesawing between the two

(17:01):
opposite ends of the spectrumhas has been able to help me
become the coach I am and thecommentator I am and and
articulate so well um to peoplethat are that are watching and
listening.

Danielle Spurling (17:11):
Yeah, I I agree.
I want to dive back intosomething you you just mentioned
before, that you had a lot ofsuccess in short course sprint
backstroke, but you found ithard to sort of move that into
long course.
What what do you think wasmissing there?
What looking back on it now?

Bobby Hurley (17:26):
You know, at the time we thought just needed to
do more more backstroketraining.
Um, and I, you know, I didn'treally enjoy training backstroke
because uh yeah, I technicallyI didn't think my backstroke was
great.
I was just such a goodunderwater kicker and and
kicker, you know, and and itagain it probably disguised a
lot of things, and my strokerate was so low and it would

(17:48):
always decrease throughout a 50.
Um, whereas in short course Ionly had to do eight strokes a
lap, so I was able to maintain abetter rhythm and then just go
15 meters underwater.
Um, with the knowledge I havenow, I'm purely I'm pretty
confident I just wasn'tphysically strong enough to swim
long course.
Um when I was 18, I could onlydo one chin-up in the gym.

(18:09):
That's what I always tell thesekids now.
Um, you know, I remember goingto the AIS doing testing, and we
and it was max rep chin-ups,and I did one, and they said,
What are you doing?
Keep going.
I said, That's all I can do,you know.
Um, and 18 months later, Ibroke the world record in a
50-meter event.
Um, and and I got a lotstronger, but I was, you know,

(18:31):
in any squad that I was in, Iwas uh the skinniest, uh weakest
person in the gym.
Um, so that's something thatI'm trying to improve, you know,
now as an adult, but I don't,you know, it I don't think it
was a a training thing or atraining capacity.
I I sort of think I wasn'tphysically strong enough to swim
to hold stroke rate in a longcourse pull, um especially

(18:54):
backstroke freestyle.
I I was better at long coursefreestyle, but long course
backstroke, I just don't think Ihad the strength to do it with
my arms and my levers were solong, and and again, I didn't
have I had a lot of elbow andshoulder problems towards the
back end of my career, and uhdidn't didn't have the physical
strength that other people havenow.
And I think that's one of thebig shifts in elite swimming at

(19:14):
this point is these guys arephysically putting a lot more
focus and effort into theirstrength and conditioning
programs than than we did in youknow the late 2000s, 2010s.
Um that becomes a major part ofthe program that the college
swimmers as well.
And I think they're justthey're they're more physical
and more athletic than let's saythe best swimmers in the world
were 20 years ago that werefishers.

(19:36):
Now they're now we're gettingathletes.
Um and and that's translatinginto short course racing, as we
saw with all the world recordsbroken recently at the World
Cup.

Danielle Spurling (19:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, someone was telling mejust yesterday that um Kate
Douglas and Gretchen Walsh wereactually lifting on the days
they were swimming at the WorldCup.

Bobby Hurley (19:55):
Yeah, yeah, incredible.
Um and I mean you're getting,you know, Gretchen is, you know,
like literally she must be sixfoot four.
Yeah, she's very tall.
And and she's got dynamiteunderwater kicks and everything
else.
But um, you know, that Virginiaprogram with with Todd DeSorbo
is producing a lot of top-tierathletes, more so on the female

(20:17):
side as well.
So he's got that combinationright.
Um, especially in short course.
I think overall I would sayAustralian women long course are
better.
And if you look at our women,they're not as physically big or
muscular, but they're a lotmore fitter, and again, they're
a lot more long coursespecialists.
When you look at Kaylee andAriane, Molly, Emma, Kate,

(20:38):
they're a lot more that slender,lean, fit and strong,
functionally strong.
Whereas some of these Americanmale and female swimmers are you
you walk past them on pooldeck, you're like, oh my god,
they're just so athletic.
Yeah.

Danielle Spurling (20:52):
Although in saying that, Molly and Kaylee
did and Lani did beautifullyworld records over the weekend.
Yeah.

Bobby Hurley (21:01):
Yeah, they they they did.
I mean, Australia's in such agolden pocket at the moment, um,
even with obviously, you know,quite surprising news for that
Ariane is is retiring, but she'shad an amazing career, can't
take anything away from her.
And there's, you know, we'vehad Emma, Kate, and Bronte
retire in the last few years,and it just keeps going, you
know.
Uh, we just keep producing, andthere's a lot more sprint girls

(21:24):
that that are waiting for theiropportunity as well.
And um, obviously the the thehigh performance side in in
Australia figured out the thecombination to get the best out
of these girls uh when itmatters the most in the long
course pool.
And if Molly and Kaylee andLani are doing that short
course, then geez, watch watchout for for their next long
course season next year.

Danielle Spurling (21:44):
I I thought Lani's swim was just amazing.
800.
I mean, taking down one ofLedecki's records is uh not
something to be sneezed at.

Bobby Hurley (21:52):
No, incredible.
I mean, by by over threeseconds, you know, and she she
got better throughout the threestops, which was the theme from
from all of the swimmers.
But you know, she swam a gutsyrace in Singapore to to put
herself in the frame um againstLedecki and Summer and almost
came out on top.
But again, Lani's, you know,she was such a talented junior

(22:15):
swimmer coming through.
She's she she dominates in thesurf.
Like, you know, she's she swimswith that two-beat kick.
Um, if she ever wanted to, likeLani would be almost unbeatable
in open water.
I don't know.
10k is at the stretch, but herskills in the surf, being able
to navigate through water, uhshe'd be I uh she'd be tough to

(22:37):
beat, you know?
Yeah.
If she ever wanted to do it,but she's so good at the pool
and she's got range all the waydown to the 200 as well.
So um that's somebody you knowthe media and everybody's gonna
be talking a lot more of in thenext few years.

Danielle Spurling (22:49):
I I saw her swim the um, or she's won the
Peter Pub um down in uh lawn forthe past few years, and I saw
her swim it last year.
She's just so strong, sostrong.
And as you said, great surfskills.

Bobby Hurley (23:01):
Yeah.
She'd probably beat, I mean, ina in a race like that, she'd
probably beat what all but oneor two of the men as well.
Yeah.
Like there wouldn't be manyguys that could beat her in in
the Peter Pub.

Danielle Spurling (23:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, it's hard to know becausethey put them in different
waves, but um, yeah, that'sshe's definitely yeah, so
versatile and will be really oneto watch, obviously heading
into LA.

Bobby Hurley (23:25):
Yeah.
Well, also, I mean, you know,uh a lot more I don't know Lani,
you know, personally too tooclosely, but you know, she was a
star in 2017 at Junior Worldsand obviously had some some
setbacks and missed Tokyo, butit's it's sometimes it's those
that have missed that then thenlight a fire, right?
So then even between Tokyo andParis, she'd like I remember in

(23:49):
Budapest World Champs one year,she'd made the final, she's
looking good for a medal, thenshe got she got covert and had
to pull out, you know.
And then in Paris, I think shepulled out of she got COVID
there, had to pull out of one ofthese finals.
You know, she swam an awesomeleg on the relay, so she is an
Olympic gold medalist in her ownright, but I guarantee you she
doesn't feel like the world hasseen the best of her in that

(24:10):
800-1500 freestyle, you know.
So that chip on a shoulder onthe right type of athlete can
can drive them for a very, verylong time.

Danielle Spurling (24:19):
I agree.
I don't think we've seen thebest of her yet.

Bobby Hurley (24:22):
No, no, not at all.

Danielle Spurling (24:24):
Let's look back at your world um world
championships in 2012.
Won the 50 back stroke, um,world title, and in 2304, take
us back to the beginning of thatswim.
How did you feel?
How did you swim it?
What are you what are yourthoughts on it now?

Bobby Hurley (24:43):
Yeah, I mean, that one, you know, that was at the
end of 2012, and again, that wasa tough year.
Um, missing the the LondonOlympic team.
Um, and then there are a lot ofchanges.
So, I mean, you know, again inin 2008 Olympic trials, I got
third, fourth, fifth, and then2012 I got third in the 400,
seventh in the 2003, where theytake six, and uh sixth in the

(25:05):
1500.
So at those Olympic trials sixmonths before, I swam the four,
eight, four, two, four, andfifteen hundred free.
I didn't swim any backstrokethat I basically didn't swim
backstroke from 2010 to 2012,didn't race it, didn't didn't do
any any quality work attraining backstroke.
And you know, I I for the spaceof a couple of days, I think I

(25:26):
quit after London Olympictrials.
Um, I was 23 and a half, hadmissed the last two Olympic
teams.
But I knew I'd love swimmingand I wanted to swim.
But um, you know, what I wasdoing just wasn't working for me
and I I wasn't enjoying theprocess every day.
I was struggling at um racing,obviously, and and hit a big
plateau in those uh freestyleraces.

(25:48):
So I um I started training withuh Adam Cable, who was the
assistant coach at the time atOlympic Park, um and said, yeah,
let's just do short course, um,focus on that, get back into
some backstroke again and seewhat happens.
So I I went to that 2012 WorldCup tour.
Um back then it was eight legsuh over six weeks.

(26:10):
So eight two-day meets acrosssix different countries, three
continents.
So a lot of fun.
So I'm I um again, I had nofinancial support.
I I maxed out three creditcards, paid 20 grand, went on
the World Cup and said, uh, if Imake the money back, I'll keep
swimming.
If I don't, I'm I'm finished,you know, I'm washed up in
Australia.

(26:30):
So um, and I had a great timethat year um rooming with
Kenneth Toe, who who was theoverall winner, one of my good
mates, and and we tore up theshort course circuit and then
went to uh Istanbul at the endof 2012.
And um, you know, even thewhole time I'll I'll I always
trained for the 100 backstroke.
That gave me more chances touse my underwaters, and

(26:52):
obviously I had a highercapacity, more of a mid-distance
background, and had the hunterback on the first two days, and
and I broke the Australianrecord in the heat, fastest
qualifier.
I was like, sweet, PB in theheat.
Um went a little slower in thein the semi, slipped off the
start.
This is before backstrokewedges, and then in the final
went 0.1 slower again, which Inever go slower from heat semi

(27:14):
to final, and um and got fourthand missed the medals.
And I was 24, and I remember umMarie Kagura swam that night
and got fourth in the 100freestyle.
And she was a bit older thanme, and we're like, what are we
doing?
This is our chance, you know,to get medals at world
championships, and and we keepslipping.
And I was so mad after thatrace, I was so angry.
And I think that anger likefueled me leading into the next

(27:38):
few days.
So the 50 back was the next twodays after that.
And that would like I said withLani with that chip on the
shoulder, I was I just rememberthinking, I'm not gonna let this
slip, you know, I'm not gonnalet this race slip.
Um uh I had two fast guysobviously on on either side of
me, and I was just I'm I justsaid I'm beating both of these
guys next to me no matter what.
And uh if someone gets me froman outside lane, so be it.

(28:00):
But um, yeah, when I when I sawthat I won the race, it was it
was a great feeling of ofrelief.
Um I wouldn't say relief, butjust just joy.
Um yeah, I'm that was the onlytime I've really um punched the
air um, you know, like youreally meant it.
And mum and dad were in thestands watching as well.
But it was for on a such atough year, up and down year,

(28:23):
um, that was like finally like Idid it, you know, and I was
world champion.
So and yeah, it's somethingI'll never forget.

Danielle Spurling (28:29):
Well, I mean, what a great memory to have in
your your bank of memories.
You've got so many of them, butthat's a that's a a you know, a
special one.

Bobby Hurley (28:37):
Yeah, it's it's um, you know, I I always sort of
think um, you know, especiallyshort course wise, you know, I
got one world record and one oneworld title, but um did a lot
of World Cup tours and I wasconsistent, I could be
consistently fast for a longperiod of time on especially
short course.
So, you know, you know, I beatMatt Grievers in that race, who

(29:01):
was um, you know, Olympicchampion, um, and Stanislav
Donitz, who was he was a shortcourse guru at the time as well
for a long time.
But I knew that um, you know,when when I went to World Cups
and these guys saw me there, youknow, that their eyes would
roll, they'd be like, oh man, Igotta I gotta race him.
So I knew on my day I I couldbe the best in the world um and

(29:23):
and and achieve those really bigmoments.
I just didn't have that foreight years in a row, but I knew
on my day I was I was I I wasone of the best swimmers in the
world.

Danielle Spurling (29:33):
Hey swim talkers, just a quick break to
say thank you for supporting theshow.
If you'd like to become aTorpedo Swim Talk supporter,
you'll get early episodeupdates, master swim workouts
each month delivered straight toyour inbox, and access to our
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And a personal shout out on thepodcast.
Your support helps us keepsharing the stories of swimmers

(29:54):
from masters to Olympicchampions.
You can find the link to becomea supporter in the show notes.
And I'd love to welcome you tothe swim talkers community.
And I mean, obviously the 50form strikes are coming into the
LA Olympics.
What are your thoughts on that?
That would have been yourticket onto the team, I think,
back then.

Bobby Hurley (30:14):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, not just into the
Olympics, but um it, you know,in Australia, that was I mean,
the other thing with winning inIstanbul, that was it was almost
looked down upon in Australia.
It was short course, which wenever respected, and it was a
non-Olympic event.
So, you know, I got that yearfrom you know swimming
Australia, I got no funding, um,no, no incentive, no bonus for

(30:38):
anything for winning Australia'sonly gold medal at the world
championships, but that was thatwas the rules.
I I accept that.
But um, very different now,where people can continue
getting funding even if they getinjured, even if they have a
year off after the Olympics, ifthey swim only form stroke 50s,
that now gives them funding.
That now gets them selectiononto world championships and now
into the Olympics.

(30:58):
So I think it's justprogression of where swimming as
a sport is at.
Um, and you have to respect allof the events that that are on
that program.
Um, but on a wider scale, we'lljust those 50s, obviously, the
flyback and breasts will get alot deeper.
Um, the top end obviously willget faster as well, but more
people will take them seriously.

(31:19):
So the top eight in the thetime required to make the semis
or the finals will take bigsteps forward, and it did in
Singapore this year, um, becausethere's more at stake on those
events now, and federationswhich you know have the funding
and have the control overcoaches and swimmers uh are
gonna have to take that moreseriously.
So I think um people willspecialise more as well.

(31:41):
Um, it'll be very rare to havethose people that do 50 hundred,
200 um in a form stroke becausethe level of those 50s will get
a lot higher.
Yeah.
And then the other the otherbit, I think we'll see
specialist programs comethrough.
I think we'll see specialistsprint programs in Australia,
and then we'll then we'll see,you know, those 200 meter form

(32:01):
stroke or mid-distance programscome through as well.
I think coaches will beencouraged to get training
groups together where they'respecialized versus you know,
Dean Box will got 50-meter guysand 800-meter guys, and and that
just gets so difficult tomanage over long periods of
time.
Yeah.

Danielle Spurling (32:17):
Don't know how he does it, but he does it
very well.

Bobby Hurley (32:20):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
He does it better than anybodyelse, right?
I think he's got a lot ofsupport around him.
He's got the buy-in fromathletes and their families, and
and he does it from a young ageas well.
But um, you know, there'sthere's the the secret is Dean
himself.
There's there's nothing elsethat can be replicated.

Danielle Spurling (32:36):
Yeah, that's true.
It's a character.
How about your elbow injurythat you mentioned before?
Was that a tendonitis typething, or was there a tear that
you had to get repaired?

Bobby Hurley (32:46):
Um I I wish it was so simple like that.
Uh it was actually um arthritisin my elbows.
Yeah.
So um that was again when I wasI had a really good back end of
2012, had a great 2013 WorldCup as well, um, was was in the
US at the time, um, put on aboutfive or six kilos of of uh

(33:09):
muscle, of strength, trainingwith Matt Greavers, and um, you
know, things were looking werelooking really promising.
And then the back end of 2013,um, my elbows were just getting
so swollen and inflamed afterafter most training sessions.
And um I tried to push through,but after 2014 trials was like

(33:29):
I could do like a 6k thresholdfreestyle set, and the next day
my my elbow would be like atennis ball.
I wouldn't be able to bend itpast 90 degrees just through
inflammation.
Um again, so I was pushing,pushing my body so hard like
that, and I couldn't have sixmonths off because if I missed
the team, I got no funding.
If you didn't do a qualifyingtime, you got no funding.

(33:51):
So you're forced to, you'reliving on six-month contracts
every year, right?
So I I pushed through and inthe end, all the cartilage had
worn away, and it was just bonegrinding on bone.
Um, and it started on my leftand then it went over to my
right elbow as well.
Um, and I'd had two previoussurgeries on my right elbow as a
as a kid, just um you know,playing footy and falling off my

(34:13):
bike.
So there were you know maybesome lingering effects from
that.
Um, yeah, so I had um stem cellinjections in 2014.
So I think I was one of thefirst athletes in Australia to
to have that done.
I had to put on um five kilosof fat.
So I did no aerobic trainingand just ate as much as I

(34:33):
physically could, and and theybasically draw fat from your
your back and your and your andyour butt, um, take out the uh
the stem cells and then injectit back into your elbows.
Um so like PRP bloodinjections, but um at a at a
much more concentrated level.
Um so I did that, and that thatcertainly prolonged my career,
but that's certainly the pointwhere I had to alter everything

(34:58):
I did.
I I didn't do a push-up for thelast five years of my career.
Um no overhead exercises in thegym, no pushing exercises, no
bench press, no push-ups.
Um, and then in the pool aswell, had to had to change.
And and that's where backstrokewas a lot more manageable than
than freestyle.
Um, just that high elbow catchin freestyle was really causing
a lot of a lot of continual painthere.

(35:20):
Um, but you know, that was Ifor after 2014 I swam for
another three years and and didWorld Cups and traveled the
world and and had did one or twoPBs in that time, but but had a
great time.
But that's certainly the pointwhere um at 25 years old that
you're you're not the sameanymore.

Danielle Spurling (35:39):
I read something when I was researching
um a little bit about you thatyou you swam a race at um at
trials, was it 2016 whereobviously you had the elbow
trouble and you you kicked thewhole way and still did you come
a third?

Bobby Hurley (35:53):
Yeah, yeah, I got a third.

Danielle Spurling (35:55):
That's your backstroke kick must be
phenomenal.

Bobby Hurley (35:58):
Yeah, I did um so it I guess maybe I feel like I'm
telling too many stories.
No, please keep going.

Danielle Spurling (36:05):
Um I'm intrigued.

Bobby Hurley (36:06):
Yeah, that's why we're um that's why we're
podcasting.
Um 2016 um had a good World Cuptour, it was was coming third
overall, and um got to the lastcluster in in Asia.
So it was it was in Singaporeactually, and um I remember
getting getting into the intothe taxi one day to go to the

(36:27):
pool, put my right arm over topull put the seatbelt on, and I
couldn't I couldn't move it, itwas just dead.
So I grabbed it and I had nomuscle to actually pull the
seatbelt down to put it on.
So that was, you know, I had towithdraw and and um you know
sacrifice a potentially a lot ofprize money there as well.
And um, you know, we're we weresort of doctors and physios

(36:51):
were were really unsure what itwas, but it was actually a a
nerve infection in my suprascrap scapular nerve that I got
whilst traveling.
And um I'd lost with when thenerve gets infected and switches
off, I lost there's no muscleconnection.
So you can actually see on myuh if you're looking at my back,
like my left side wassignificantly bigger than my

(37:13):
right side.
Um, so all the muscle haddeteriorated.
Um, and that was more or lesslike I was 28 and and again
missed the 2016 Olympic team.
So um that was more or lessgoing to be the end of my
career, and I was going reallygood again and enjoying the
process again, and then had thatum you know really big um

(37:34):
hurdle.
And um came back from the WorldCup and Tim Lane was my coach
at the time at Waringa inSydney.
Um and and we just we basicallyjust kicked for a couple of
weeks and very sparingly used ummy right arm and then went to
short course nationals, which Ithink was about four weeks
later, and we thought, well,we've got to give it a go, we've

(37:56):
got to give it a shot.
I'd love to represent Australiaone more time, go to short
course worlds um to finish mycareer, but but if it's not to
be, then then there's nothing Ican do about it.
And the 50 back was notselection um for short course
worlds, only the hundred was.
So we had the 50 back, and Isaid to Tim, like, I think I

(38:16):
need a it was a time finalbecause again, Australia doesn't
really care about short course50s.
Um I said, like, I think I needa race because I need I didn't
even know if I could do abackstroke start, and I didn't
know if I could streamline, likeI think I need a race, but I
don't want to, you know, I don'twant to use up all my energy
because the 50 was before the100.

(38:37):
So he said, why don't why don'tyou do kick on your back and
and and do that?
So so I did so I went 15underwater, did fly kick on my
back, did one stroke into theturn, one stroke onto the
finish, and got third, went um24-3.
So it was about PV plus 1.3 umwith on two strokes, you know.

(38:57):
Amazing.
Um so that yeah, that's that'show good of a dolphin kicker I
was.
Um yeah, and then um, you know,I particularly short course had
a good rivalry with MitchLarkin for a long time, who
wasn't as good short course.
He had one bang in year, but umand and he and he after the
race said, Are you okay?
Like what what what happened?

(39:19):
Because it was obviously a muchslower time than what we used
to, and he won the race.
And I said, No, no, I'm I'm allgood.
I only did two strokes.
And he's like, What?
And then then we sort of walkedaway.
And um, then the next day Iwent real easy in the 100-back
stroke heat, had an outsidelane, and then um, you know, I I
feel like miraculously had areally good 100-back stroke

(39:39):
final.
I I said, if if I've got um 16strokes in me, uh 16 right arm
strokes in me, I'm gonna save itfor the 100-back final.
And um went just over my PV,beat Mitch, um, won that that
Australian title and and uh madethe world short course team.
So that was that was prettycool.
That was cool.
And then um, yeah, that wasreally good story, and and Tim

(40:02):
and I had had a really goodmoment there.
And then um, you know, going toWindsor in Canada um wasn't
able to continue that.
Made the 50-back final there,didn't make the hundred, and of
course Mitch won the hundredfinal there.
So I beat him at the trials andthen he ended up being the
world champion and and I wasn'tin the final.
But I was able to I I got fifthin the 50-back final there,

(40:23):
which was good to be a part ofthat race.
I I would have liked to haveobviously got a medal or or or
been um been on top of thepodium, but but yeah, it wasn't
to be.

Danielle Spurling (40:32):
But then soon after after that, you jumped
into coaching and you coachedChad LeClo and Cameron
Vanderberg.
How did it feel to be the onewriting the programs rather than
the one doing the programs?

Bobby Hurley (40:44):
Yeah, um, I mean, another really fortunate
opportunity that I had um that Ispoke about earlier was
actually so the day that I gotin Singapore that I couldn't
move my right shoulder was theday that Chad asked me to be his
coach um on the World Cup tour.
We're we're obviously goodfriends.
Um and and I said, Chad, likeyou're asking me to to retire um

(41:07):
to to stop like I'm I'm comingthird on overall on the World
Cup behind Chad, and he's andhe's asking me, Do you want to
be my coach next year?
And they, you know, Chad andBert knew that um you know what
kind of mind that I'd had andI'd spent a lot of time with
them on tour, and that that Iknew that I wanted to get into
coaching.
Um but yeah, it was it was justyou know a tap on the shoulder

(41:30):
and Chad Chad said this is thisis what we're thinking.
He he got two silver medals inRio that year, um, and it
announced that he was leavinghis longtime coach.
And you know, in the swimmingworld, there's a bit of question
marks as to what Chad was goingto do.
And and he asked me, and I waslike, wow, that's uh that's
pretty crazy.
And then you know, Chad wasmoving to Cape Town and Cameron

(41:52):
Vandenberg was was going to CapeTown as well.
And Cape Town's an amazing,beautiful city as well, um, very
safe and um yeah, nice place inthe world to live.
And they were going to um joinEnergy Standard, which was based
in Turkey, and um do trainingcamps over there, and then I was
going to be their theirtraveling coach.
So for me to get a foot intocoaching, that was you know,

(42:16):
Cameron got silver at thatOlympics, they're both world
champions, world record holders,Olympic champions from London,
um, and they're asking me to betheir coach.
So I thought that was prettycool and and certainly um too
good of an opportunity to toturn down.
Um so again, that's was the bigmotivation for me to try and
make that Australian team onelast time and and be in Windsor

(42:36):
and competing, which which I wasable to do.
And Chad and Cameron both wonwon gold medals, and then the
next week I I moved to Cape Townand um and was coaching them.
And I mean I'd I'd kept alogbook since I was 11 years
old.
Um, it was handwritten forprobably 15 years, and then it
was on the computer after that.
So I've got everything writtendown.
So I've I've always been a swimnerd, um, like that, and always

(42:59):
asked the coaches why, why,why, why are we doing this,
what's the purpose of this,which probably pissed off a few
of them.
But I had that, you know, I Iwanted to know, I wasn't
questioning them, I just wantedto know, I needed to buy into it
and understand it.
And and also I I knew I wantedto be a swimming coach one day,
uh a high performance coach oneday.
Um, but at the same time, whenwhen you get that moment, that

(43:22):
first session in Cape Town, Ididn't have a stopwatch, you
know.
Like swimmers don't ownstopwatches with and then I got
one, I didn't know how to useit.
Like you're coaching three orfour athletes at a time, taking
splits, taking stroke rates,like it's it's an art form in
itself to pick up on that.
And um, Andrea Di Nino was mymentor mentor coach at the time,
um, uh a famous Italian coach.

(43:44):
So he was there with me, andand I was able to learn from
him, James Gibson, Tom Rushton,and a lot of others.
Um, so I was surrounded by youknow by the world's best for
that first year um and learnfrom them um and you know, and
be around Chad Cameron.
And when we went to trainingcamp, Ben Proud was there, Sarah
Sostrom, Michael, Roman Shuk,like some really high-level

(44:06):
really some some pretty good,some pretty good guys, you know,
Kaleshnikov, Rilov, the theRussians were there as well.
Um, and and that was a greatyear.
That was I had I had a lot offun.
And Chad um won the turn of flyin Budapest, so he got his
redemption from Rio and beatLaszlo Che in Budapest.
That was an amazing crowd andswam his second fastest time
ever behind what he did in um inLondon.

(44:28):
And Cameron did a PB and gotthird in the 50 breast stroke.
So even at at uh 29 years ofyears of age, and again, similar
to what McAvoy's doing now, uha much reduced training program,
Cam Vanderbeer was able to do aPB in the 50 breasts, um, a
former world record holder doingdoing a PB.
Obviously, Adam Peady broke theworld record and won that race,

(44:49):
but um yeah, I was I was prettyproud of of that as my first
coaching experiences, and thenum um that was a great year, but
uh I missed Australia andwanted to move home, so I did so
at the end of 2017.

Danielle Spurling (45:01):
Yeah, what a great experience though.
My gosh.
I mean, um getting to work withthose high-level swimmers has
just set you up for all yourcoaching following through now.

Bobby Hurley (45:10):
Yeah, yeah, it has.
And um, you know, that's whereI met my my now wife, Kisenia.
So she was the team manager atum at Energy Standard and and we
hit it off that year and andhad a great year together.
And that's uh she moved toSydney with me at the end of
2017, and and um, and and we'vebeen obviously been together
ever since.
And so, you know, when I speakabout I I feel like in my

(45:32):
swimming career, a lot of thetimes I was I was unlucky, you
know, I I missed um threeOlympic teams and had so many
close calls.
And I I at the same time I hadluck, but when you review
yourself, you think about thethe setbacks and the near
misses, you you you remember thelosses more than you remember
the wins.
And then as soon as I retired,all of a sudden I got this

(45:54):
amazing once-in-a-lifetimechance to coach two Olympic
champions, right?
Um, doing that, I meet my wife.
Uh doing that, I I spent moretime with with the FINA staff
and they asked me to commentate.
That was just uh again, it wasjust a converse conversation
that people hear me talk aboutswimming and have a conversation
with me, and they thought I'dbe good for the role.

(46:15):
And that's a role that I'm thatI'm really blessed to have.
And then three people that Imet that year as well, uh, you
know, the Singapore opportunitycame up um to move overseas too.
So um they're the certainly thethe three opportunities that
that I think I've been um very,very lucky to have, but uh, but
at the same time, I think I'veI've taken them with both hands

(46:35):
and and made the most of it aswell.
And and being able to say yesand and do a really good job at
these things um helps otherfuture possibilities come up as
well.

Danielle Spurling (46:45):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I was gonna ask you howthe Fina job sort of uh came
about.
You do a amazing job.
I love that feed.
I wish we got it more here.

Bobby Hurley (46:53):
It's just so me on channel nine.

Danielle Spurling (46:56):
Yes, please.
How do you you what's your sortof contract with them like?
Do you do you just do the mainones?
You don't do the world cups, doyou just do the world champs
and and Olympics, that kind ofthing?

Bobby Hurley (47:08):
Yeah, yeah, it's just a um obviously it's just a
contract for for services forthose championships.
Um, so it's it's once a year.
But I did do the World Cupslast year, um, which were in
Asia, so time zone was friendly,and there's a studio uh not far
from from my workplace, so Iwas doing that by myself from a
studio, which was which wastough.

(47:29):
But then the third leg was inSingapore, so I was able to do
that um live.
And they did ask me to do thisyear's one as well, but it uh it
was it was it was very lastminute and and it didn't work
out, and I had a family holidaybooked, and um, you know, that
was certainly the priority atthis time of year, especially
after commentating in um overthe summer at the world
championships.
But um, yeah, that was uh againa another really fortunate

(47:53):
opportunity.
Um the the people at FINA justthought I'd be a good fit for
the role, and and the previousperson had had left, I believe,
and and something had opened up.
And then uh my first one was umshort course worlds in China,
end of 2018.
And and obviously, like I I wasat the last short course
worlds, and I coached at theworld championships the year

(48:15):
before.
So my knowledge of that currentlevel of swimmers was was huge.
And I geled well with with MikeMcCann, who's who's a genius
commentator, and he's taught meeverything when to chime in and
how to articulate things.
And um, I just work around himreally.
But um, when I started speakingin depth about different events
and distance events and and umshort course racing, um, people

(48:38):
were just blown away by by theyou know, I guess it's a
different form of knowledgecoming through, and I can relate
to it as an athlete, as acoach, and and overall just a
fan of swimming.
That I think that's theunderlying thing is that I'm
just passionate to watch andtalk about swimming.
And you know, I'm fortunate todo it at the world championships
at the highest level.
But also, if I also do a 12 andunder mini meet, if if there

(49:02):
was 25 to go and there's threeguys in a line, I I would
equally get as excited aboutthree little kids racing because
that's what it's about, right?
That's that's the fun bit aboutracing and and not not so much
about winning and losing, butjust the just how people are
going to respond when they'reunder pressure and they're
racing like that is is what Ilike to see.

Danielle Spurling (49:20):
Well, I think the the reason that you're so
successful at it is you can tellthat you're you're very so
passionate about it and you'vegot this huge, as you say, this
huge background knowledge.
And it it it definitely comesthrough, but in a in a very
humble way, which I I thinklisteners like.

Bobby Hurley (49:36):
Yeah, I mean, again, I've got those
experiences as an athlete thatwe've talked about, but I don't
need to reference that or talkabout that, you know, every
single night.
Um, I think at the end of theday, I'm I'm gonna be remembered
more as a coach and commentatorthan than as an athlete, and
and that already feels like areally long way a pass behind

(49:56):
me.
Um, but the the main bit againis is the passion for the sport
because you know you see onInstagram or on the TV just like
a highlight of the end of anexciting race, which is the easy
part.
That's the fun part to deliverthat moment, or or for me doing
the replays after you know aworld record is broken or
whatnot.
But the hard bit is you'redoing eight days, you know,

(50:18):
heats and finals, so four hourson air in the morning and night,
and it's it's it's a grind,like emotionally it's a grind.
You're so like you forget abouteverything else that's
happening in the world becauseI'm reading everything, I'm
reading comments on swim swam,I'm memorizing everything on
amiga timing, split-wise, um,trying to talk to coaches.

(50:39):
Uh, I I certainly stick awaystay away from the athletes.
I don't want to impede on that,but just trying to get little
bits of useful information fromcoaches that that might help,
and you're so engulfed into thatwhole week of world
championships, it's it's reallytiring.
Um, and in Singapore, I waslosing my voice halfway through,
so I was actually stressedabout losing my voice.
So when I was off air, I was Iwas just alone.

(51:01):
I was like, I can't talk toanybody, I have to rest my
voice.
Um, but yeah, so it's uh it'sit's really difficult to do.
But the the other part is umI'm current in swimming.
I'm a current coach, so I'mseeing swimming every day.
A lot of commentators that yousee or you hear in in particular
in swimming, because we're noton TV that much, you're getting

(51:22):
certain people, you know, very,very well respected names, but
they're not living and breathingswimming every single day,
talking to coaches, watchingresults, watching heat swims,
watching age group is trained tosee little faults or how kids
are talking and reacting aboutdifferent things these days.
So I think that's one thingthat keeps my commentating

(51:43):
sharp, is that I'm current withyou know coaching at age group
and a high performance level aswell.
Yeah.

Danielle Spurling (51:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, it definitely comesthrough in the feed.
So you're doing a great job,and I hope it continues.

Bobby Hurley (51:55):
Thank you.
Thank you.

Danielle Spurling (51:56):
I just before I let you go, because I know
we've talked for quite a while,but I wanted to ask you about
your swim at the World Mastersin Singapore recently.
You did the 50 backstroke.
How did you how did you likethat?
Getting back in competition.

Bobby Hurley (52:08):
Yeah, I mean, I've done a few um fun races in
relays uh and things, I guess,in the last few years.
And and on the last day ofworld championships, there's
always a media relay, um, whichhas gotten a lot more a lot more
um spectacular in the last fewyears, I guess.
Um it, you know, back in 2018,2019, it was like the camera

(52:28):
crew and the Amiga Timing crew,the volunteers, and then a
couple of teams from FINA.
And now um now everybody'srecruiting like the the
ambassadors to swim.
So, you know, um, you know, andour team was was James Gibson,
John Mason, who's who's life ofthe party, like a lot of fun,
and uh Elizabeth Beisel, but youknow, Kate Campbell swam for

(52:49):
one of the teams, Dylan Carter,who's still actively swimming,
he raced, um, and Chad raced aswell.
So these teams are nowrecruiting like ambassadors who
have recently retired or activeswimmers to try and win this
relay, and then it's um it'sproduced as well.
So it's the full TV show, um,you know, walkouts, lane

(53:12):
assignments, post-raceinterviews, slow motion replays.
So it's it's hilarious to watchback.
Um, yeah, so that's been a lotof fun.
But but doing masters back backto masters again.
Um it was good.
I like I I wanted to do it umbecause it's in Singapore and I
always thought about doingmasters as well.
I wish it were short course.
I still I was like, oh man,it's long course.

(53:32):
It's that couple of extrastrokes.
Um and I feel like if it was atthe end of June, I could have
done a better job.
I mean, I went 27-0 when my youknow my lifetime best is 25.0.
I I thought I could be in maybethe 26 lows, but um, as soon as
school finished where I am, Iwas out of routine and holidays
with the kids and not being atthe pool every day.

(53:54):
So my training went downhill alot leading into the master's
meet.
Um, but it was good, you know,it was good to be competitive
again and um to actually, youknow, set a goal and and shoot
your sights for.
So I didn't do a whole lot ofswimming leading in, which is
probably what what everymaster's swimmer says, like
you're I guess you're especiallybeing an ex-professional, you

(54:16):
you're never gonna be asprepared as you once were,
right?
So everyone's underprepared,but um, it kept me really
accountable in the gym andnutrition-wise.
So that was a a big helpbecause I'd never, you know, and
it's one of the things when youretire from professional
sports, you you're never reallytruly tested to the point where
you know you're not gonna drinkfor a couple of weeks or you you

(54:37):
you're not gonna eat takeawayfor a few weeks and you're gonna
go to the gym five times aweek.
Um, you know, obviously I'vekept fit and healthy over the
past um seven years or so sinceI've retired, but not to the
point where you're preparing fora performance.
So um, you know, I got secondin that race to to um Charles
Hocken, who's you know maybe oneof the best master swimmers

(54:58):
around the world at this point.
He he swims um at a very, veryhigh level from from Paraguay.
Um and it was good to see himand and he was he was really
happy to meet me and race me aswell.
Um and it was a it was a funoverall experience.
I wish I did some relaysactually, that probably would
have been a lot more fun too.
But um, you know, I don'treally have that master's
community in Singapore yet, butum potentially it's something we

(55:21):
can dig into later on.

Danielle Spurling (55:22):
Singapore is becoming a real hub for
swimming.
I mean, they they just put onthem.
I mean, I thought the masterschampionships were superb with
four pools and just so easy toget to and everything was easy
and well organized.
It was amazing.

Bobby Hurley (55:40):
Yeah, it's it's great facilities.
And um, I just saw recentlythat um the the World Champs
Arena, which they constructedjust you know probably six
months ago.
Uh it's it's temporary, eventhough it it well and truly
looks permanent, but it's classas a temporary facility.
But they've now just uh thegovernment just said they're
gonna keep it open till 2030.
So that's I mean, that's a longtime.

(56:02):
So hopefully you get otherhigh-level international swim
meets here in Singapore becauseit's a great city, one to be a
tourist in, but also um just toget around, like the the ease of
transport, obviously theweather, which is great for you
know, for for masters and andfor all athletes.
And you know, they they havethe F1 here every year, which is
really successful.

(56:22):
And I feel like they'reprobably shooting for an
Olympics at some point.
They had the Youth Olympicsback in 2010, um, and they had
junior worlds as well.
So I think they're capable ofof hosting high-level
competitions like that, and it'sa great city to be in.
Yeah, it definitely is.

Danielle Spurling (56:36):
I really enjoyed my time there for sure.

Bobby Hurley (56:38):
Tell me about your master's experience.

Danielle Spurling (56:41):
Oh, look, I I'm sort of at the end of the
age group.

Bobby Hurley (56:44):
Um so that makes it that's a disadvantage, right?

Danielle Spurling (56:48):
A very big disadvantage.
Um yeah, look, I got four toptens, so I was happy with that.
But onwards and upwards toBudapest, where I hope I can do
a little bit better.
But yeah, my my hundredbackstroke was probably my best
of the of the meet, but um lotsto take away.
And I've I've got I'm better atshort course as well.
So I've got to listening toparticularly to what you said

(57:09):
about that, and I I need toincrease my stroke rate as well.
So I'm working on that.

Bobby Hurley (57:14):
Strength.

Danielle Spurling (57:15):
Yeah, strength.
So yeah, I'm hitting the gymbig time.

Bobby Hurley (57:18):
Yeah, I mean, when I was um I was coaching at
Loretta Normanhurst in Sydney,and and we had a master squad
there, and it was uh a couple ofthose swimmers were in
Singapore as well, so it wasgood to to connect with um with
those guys.
You probably know Stu Ellicott,um, breaststroker.
So so I had I was coaching Stufor a couple of years in Sydney.
Um, and it's amazing.
I mean, there were a few guysand and girls in that squad that

(57:41):
were swimming, you know, fourkilometer sessions.
I think Stu's in his 70s now,probably doing three or four
kilometre sessions, and I thinkuh Christmas Eve, he still does
the hundred-one hundreds.
Um, and it's but I I I do feellike it's the um the people that
have an affinity for swimming,maybe as parents or didn't get
the opportunity in their teenageyears or their 20s that swim

(58:02):
for a long time.
Um a lot of the theprofessionals or whatnot, if if
if you have made it to thehighest level, it's it's tough
to go back to that becauseyou're you always get that
feeling that you'll you'll neverbe able to satisfy your your
demands for preparation.
Um and it and also I there's atrend I I sort of see that
there's a lot of coaches inAustralia that swam at a high

(58:24):
level but never made anAustralian team.
So they're they're they'rebetter at coaching and they've
driven themselves so muchbecause their way onto the
Australian team is as a coach,not as an athlete, right?
Um and that's again that chipon their shoulders um proved to
be uh a really successful forfor a lot of those people too.
So um, but yeah, back to masterswimmers, like I swim, you

(58:44):
know, leading into my race, Ithink I swam three times a week,
probably less than a kilometereach time.
Um, but anyone who's who's gotthe the ability to to swim, you
know, four or five times a weekand and swim for an hour, hour
and a half, like I don't I don'thave the mental capacity to do
that anymore, especially now asa coach as well.
I'd I'd I'd love to, but theidea of it is always better than

(59:06):
than actually diving in anddoing it.
I guess I get bored after about15 minutes.

Danielle Spurling (59:10):
I can see that, yeah.
Understandable.
Look, everyone that comes onthe podcast, I like to ask them
a deep dive five to finish off.
So just give me a quick answer.
The first thing that pops intoyour head.
Favorite pool that you've everswum in in the world?

Bobby Hurley (59:22):
Uh the one at Einhoven is uh yeah, that was a
lot of fun.
Um I can't remember the theexact uh layout of it, but but
yeah, it was it was a good vibethere.
I had a great time in Einhoven.

Danielle Spurling (59:35):
What's your favorite backstroke drill?

Bobby Hurley (59:38):
Um shoulder rotation kick.
So hands by side, um, shoulderrotation kick, just trying to
get that that shoulder all theway up to your chin.
Um, I think shoulder rotation'sthe most important thing in
backstroke to get length andpower.

Danielle Spurling (59:52):
And how about um a set that you'd bring back
from your racing days that youdo now?

Bobby Hurley (59:58):
Uh it's very difficult.
Different now, I can tell youthat it's very different now.
Um, you know, in terms of thetraining that we were doing
compared to to how I coach thekids now.
Um again, I enjoyed likethreshold freestyle, probably
wasn't good for me, but but Ienjoyed that.
So um with Vince at the AIS,you know, we would do through a

(01:00:18):
a block, you know, 40100s on 120on a Monday afternoon, then a
week or two later it was 32 100son 130, and then it'd be 24 on
140, pretty much all messedaverage, and then finish with
maybe 16 or 18 on on 150.
Um, but but I enjoyed that, andand that's great mid-distance
training as well.

Danielle Spurling (01:00:38):
Yeah, that's good.
How about your best tip to geta perfect backstroke turn?

Bobby Hurley (01:00:44):
Uh backstroke turn.
Well, obviously, you've got tocount your strokes under the
flags, but a lot of people areturning too close to the wall
and not utilizing that lastfreestyle stroke to its full
potential.
So especially if you're tallerlike me, or if you have a slower
stroke rate, if you're close tothe wall, like you're gonna jam
up and lose all your momentum.
So it's better to be furtheraway from the wall.

(01:01:06):
So you can glide, you can reachout and use that last stroke,
that last stroke on your frontto its full potential.
That's that's the mostimportant part of that of the
turn, freestyle or backstroke isthe last stroke to get hit the
wall at speed.

Danielle Spurling (01:01:19):
And how about past or present swimmer that
you most admire and why?

Bobby Hurley (01:01:24):
Obviously, everyone, you know, growing up,
you know, in my era was was IanThorpe and Michael Phelps.
But um, from a young age, Iremember like really respecting
those underwater kickers, and Ijust thought it was really cool.
So, you know, Matt Walsh waswas really good in the early
2000s, and I raced him at theback end of his career.
Um, and uh, you know, RyanLochtie as well was more of the

(01:01:47):
underdog all the time, right?
Um, up against Phelps.
So so I like that, like thatunderdog story.
But um to be honest, there wasno real upset hero like that
because you know I did racePhelps once and you know I stood
there and wanted to beat him,you know.
Um, so there's no one that youreally put up on on a pedestal.

(01:02:08):
Um, I was more like you know,basketball fan, so Kobe Bryant
was was my hero, and and andthat mentality and that work
ethic um is what drove me for along time.

Danielle Spurling (01:02:17):
Yeah.
Oh, he's a good hero to have.

Bobby Hurley (01:02:19):
Yeah, he is.

Danielle Spurling (01:02:21):
Well, Bobby, thank you so much for joining us
today.
I I've loved speaking to youand hearing all your
perspectives about swimming andwishing you every success with
your coaching career andcommentating career heading
forwards.

Bobby Hurley (01:02:33):
Yeah, thank you.
Uh I enjoyed a trip down memorylane, and and hopefully
everybody listening enjoyed someof those stories too.

Danielle Spurling (01:02:40):
I think they will.
Okay, take care.

Bobby Hurley (01:02:42):
Thanks.

Danielle Spurling (01:02:43):
Okay, bye.

Bobby Hurley (01:02:43):
Bye bye.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Take care of us.

Danielle Spurling (01:02:46):
Thanks for tuning in to Torpedo Swim Talk,
the podcast celebrating swimmersat every stage from Masters
Legends to Olympic champions.
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(01:03:08):
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Until next time, happy swimmingand bye for now.