Olympic medalist Brenton Rickard joins us on this episode of Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast sharing his remarkable journey from world-class swimmer to influential sports administrator. He opens up about his journey from elite swimmer to sports administrator, sharing stories of Olympic highs and lows, setting world records, and the doping scandal he was falsely accused of and then later exonerated from.
Brenton provides a firsthand account of the pressures and triumphs of his own Olympic competition and offers insights into the recent swimming events in Paris. He delves into the intricacies of breaststroke evolution, spotlighting athletes like Adam Peaty and Zac Stubblety-Cook, and discusses the Olympic Village experience.
We dive deep into Brenton's rigorous training routines that shaped his path to success, from the disappointment of missing the Athens 2004 Olympics to the glory of securing silver in Beijing 2008. He reveals the nuances of competitive swimming, including the importance of mental preparation, adapting to different formats, and the sheer thrill of winning an Olympic medal. Brenton's stories of setting a world record and the highs and lows of close races provide a captivating look at the life of an elite swimmer during the era of high-tech swimsuits.
Brenton's transition from athlete to sports administrator is equally fascinating. He recounts his role in organising the 2022 FINA World Short Course Championships as CEO and the challenges of event planning under tight deadlines. We explore the future of swimming, the need for specialised stroke training, and the evolution of the Commonwealth Games. Brenton's reflections on his career, both in the pool and behind the scenes, offer a heartfelt exploration of resilience, dedication, and a lasting passion for the sport. Join us for an episode brimming with insights and behind-the-scenes stories from one of swimming's greats.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Danielle Spurling (00:09):
Hello swimmers and welcome to another
episode of Torpedo Swim Talkpodcast.
I'm your host, Danielle Sprling, and each week, we chat to an
inspiring swimmer from aroundthe world about their swimming
journey.
Today, I speak with Olympicmedalist from Beijing and London
, brenton Rickard.
Brenton was a superstar inbreaststroke swimming, with a
(00:31):
world record and worldchampionship in 2009, as well as
Commonwealth Games medals alongthe way.
He now works as a sportsadministrator for the
Commonwealth Games Foundationand has a unique perspective
about swimming, both from thenand now, as well as a doping
scandal which he has had to gothrough after being falsely
accused of doping.
(00:52):
So, as you can see, we had alot to talk about.
Let's hear from Brenton now.
Hi Brenton, welcome to thepodcast.
Brenton Rickard (01:05):
Thanks for having me.
Danielle Spurling (01:06):
Yeah, you're so welcome.
Where are you based inAustralia now and do you get
much swimming in these days?
Brenton Rickard (01:12):
I'm on the Gold Coast these days, so I've been
here for 15-odd years, finishedmy swimming career here and
started my professional careerhere.
I guess I do get in once a weekor so.
I've got two fairly young kidsso it's hard to find much more
time for swimming other thanthat, but I still do quite enjoy
it.
Danielle Spurling (01:31):
Yeah, do you swim alone when you get in or
are you with some mates?
Brenton Rickard (01:36):
A better mixture of both.
My wife and I tried to have abit of a routine of going once a
week together, which was quitenice.
She's not a swimmer, but it wasjust nice to have some company.
I did have a group ofex-swimmers as well that we used
to swim a bit with, but it'sjust hard to to schedule times
(01:57):
when we're all three,unfortunately, so most of the
time I do end up swimming alone.
Danielle Spurling (02:01):
Yeah, how old are your kids?
Brenton Rickard (02:04):
Emily's about turn eight and Ollie's about
turn five.
So Ollie starts school nextyear, which he's very excited
for.
Danielle Spurling (02:12):
Yeah, look, that's such an intensive time in
family life.
It's so hard to sort of gettime away from that when you've
got kids and they've got theirown sport commitments as well.
So good on you for getting tothe pool.
I think that's great.
Yeah, as I I said, still reallyenjoy it.
It's just finding the time.
That's the high part.
Brenton Rickard (02:32):
Yeah, absolutely did you enjoy
watching the swimming in Paris?
I did, I did.
It was um, it was aninteresting meet, like, uh, some
events were phenomenally fast,some events were, I guess,
surprisingly slow maybe notsurprisingly, but not but not as
quick as you expected, but justthe level of competition and
there's just, I guess, everychance, but every Olympics in
particular, there's justmind-blowing performances.
(02:54):
Leon Marchand doing what he didwas just out of this world, and
likewise, yeah, that 100 metrefree was insane.
Danielle Spurling (03:06):
So, yeah, just every meet just surprises
us, again and again yeah, and Imean, in 20 years, no one is
going to remember the times.
It's the, the olympic medal,that they remember, isn't it?
Yeah, absolutely what do youput the, the sort of slower
times across the board down to?
Are you, are you along thistheory of the shallow pool?
Brenton Rickard (03:26):
Yeah, I've certainly had my fair share of
swimming in shallow pools and Ithink it does make a small
difference.
I think also, when you look athow much technology ends up in
the water these days betweenrail cams and lap counters and
other cameras, still cameras,video cameras, that no doubt
(03:48):
just adds to the drag across thepool.
But I think the other part is,you know, olympic finals are
tense and sometimes that wholefeel, that whole, all the
contestants can feel thattension and just not quite
necessarily from the best time.
It's more about the race, it'sabout beating the, the people on
(04:09):
either side of you, versus justposting a time.
So sometimes you see, yeah,especially semi-finals be very
quick and then the final be atouch slower, because it's more
about the race than than thetime and I mean, how difficult
is it when you get into theolympic village and you have to
deal with all the pressuresthere as well?
It comes with the territory.
(04:29):
I think it's one of those onesthat, yeah, I'm a sports fan.
So you go into an OlympicVillage and you see, you know, I
remember going into Beijing andseeing Serena Williams lining
up at the dining hall the firsttime I was there You're just
like wow, you know, like legendsof their particular sports.
So there's that side of it.
But I mean, in terms ofpressure, I always felt like the
(04:53):
expectations we had forourselves was always sky high.
Anyway, you know, you're there,you're not there to make up a
field, you're there to compete.
You're there to win medals,you're there to try to win the
thing.
Make up a field, you're thereto compete.
You're there to win medals,you're there to try to win the
thing.
And so you know, I don't thinkanything externally ever mounts
close to to what your ownexpectations are for yourself
(05:13):
and what you're trying toachieve and looking at your pet
events the uh, the breaststroke100 and 200.
Danielle Spurling (05:19):
What did you think of those two races in
Paris for the men?
Brenton Rickard (05:23):
Yeah, like I don't mean this in a term of
slander or anything like that,but I was surprised that the 100
wasn't one in a quicker time.
Like you know, there were anumber of guys you know that
have made 58 standard, which youknow.
Back when I swam, you know myworld record was 58, 58, 5, 8
(05:45):
and that was the quickest everat the time.
So you know that they, you knowI think adam pd is an absolute
legend of the stroke and what hedid to move the event forward
the 100 breaststroke forward is,you know, was really quite
groundbreaking and I think overtime people have learned to swim
that way as well and so you sawmuch more of the world swimming
(06:07):
into that 58 lows and and and57s by 57s, um, so then to see
in the final that yeah, 59, ohwas, was kind of a bit bit
surprising, um, but then I thinkthe 200, like you know, zach
I've had a bit to do here withzach in australia and um, my old
(06:30):
coach was vince, who coachedjack as well.
So we we've had a connection fora number of years and so you
know to see him swim as well ashe did, like his swim was pretty
high level, like there's nottoo many swims in history
quicker than that.
But then have leon do what hedid in the way he did it like
(06:50):
205 from a non-breaststrokespecialist is just.
It was mind-blowing really tosee him and to have done it
after already doing a the 200fly final that day, and the way
he did that was just justincredible.
So, um, I think certainly inthe hundred, like the depth of
competition continues to developand grow and that you know the
(07:13):
60, 60 points not going to getyou anywhere, but at the same
time to not have that really,really high-end performance to
win the gold medal was wassomewhat surprising.
Danielle Spurling (07:24):
And I know you had a bit to do with Zach.
You just said what do you thinkabout his tactics with the way
he swims the 200, with cominghome on that giving everyone?
A heart attack and coming homeso fast on the last one.
Brenton Rickard (07:36):
Yeah, look, I think one of the absolute great
things about breaststroke ispeople really swim it to suit
their own physiology, both interms of their technique but
also their tactics.
Um, and zach is one of thoseguys that can do breaststroke
today and and so you've got tolean into that strength and that
(07:57):
is, you know he doesn't havefront end speed to burn, so you
know he's never going to go outand you know, 60-point in the
200 breast, like Leon did.
So instead you've just got tobe able to come home over the
top.
So I think, you know, I thinkwatching the semi, you're kind
of going right.
(08:17):
You've got to put yourself inthe race a little bit more than
that, but I think in the finalhe did.
He swam it the way he shouldswim it, which he was, you know,
mid-pack at the halfway turnand mowing people down.
It was just that leon just swaman incredible race and gave
himself such a lead that youknow he could couldn't be caught
.
So there I, as I said, I thinkit's one of the great things
(08:39):
about breaststroke that we allyou know you can really lean
into your strengths and you know, and and swim technically that
way, but also tactically thatway and the way that vince used
to coach you with the 100 and200 breaststroke.
Danielle Spurling (08:54):
Is that this exactly the same way he's doing
that with zach now, or has itchanged a lot over the?
Brenton Rickard (08:59):
years it, it, it's evolved.
It's evolved a bit, but alsoit's it's.
It's the difference in ourphysiologies.
Like I'm you know, I'm six footfour and used to race at 92, 93
kilos.
Like I'm a fairly large man andand zach is ripped, but he's
(09:19):
smaller and less powerful but,as as we mentioned, he can do it
for days.
So you know, speaking to vince,we'll talk about sets I used to
do and you know there were setsthat would would wipe me out
like I'd, by the end of it, Iwas, I was cooked, and he'd be
like, oh yeah, so zach does that, and then he'll do another 500
meters of effort or whatever.
(09:40):
You're just like how, how ow.
But it's also that like, yeah,as I said, zach probably doesn't
have that real high-end speedthat I had, and so doesn't
necessarily.
Yeah, physiologically we'rejust different athletes.
So Zach still does a lot ofstuff that I did and a lot of
similar methods.
He can just do it better forlonger.
Danielle Spurling (10:03):
Basically, what were some of those sets
that you remember from that timethat you used to have to swim?
Brenton Rickard (10:08):
um, yeah, it's, it's.
Oh, there's a range, there'ssome, um, I guess especially 100
meter sets that were back inspeed that we would kind of do
you know a 50, a 50 max, a bitof whatever, 200, easy, and then
we'd do three sets of 350s, um,back end speed type thing.
(10:29):
So you kind of end up with 500meters, whereas I'm pretty sure
speaking to vince that you knowzach does three sets of 450s and
you know it's, it's the 450that'll get you a type thing and
and he'll still be right to domore stuff after that.
You know we did a fair bit ofbroken 200 work for me.
You know, probably a bit ofhistory for the listeners, like
(10:53):
2004, when I missed the Athensteam, I wasn't even swimming the
200 breaststroke and four yearslater I'm an Olympic medalist.
So those four years was verymuch developed in teaching me
and developing training to helpme swim a 200 breaststroke as a
bigger, more powerful athletethan a lot of the 200 meter guys
.
So we did a lot of 200 brokenstuff and and same things like
(11:15):
we might do.
You know four, four, fourbroken twos and and zach will do
six and and just just that typeof thing, or do you know?
Whereas I'd have, you know, Iguess, a 30-second rest interval
between efforts, he'll do it on24.
You know, he's just thatspecial of an athlete in terms
(11:38):
of his physiology and how muchhe can get out of himself.
He can just do things more orin less rest.
It's.
Danielle Spurling (11:46):
It's pretty impressive well, you've also had
impressive results because, asyou just touched on, in beijing
you brought home silver in that200 breast and you got silver in
the men's medley relay.
What are your memories of thoseraces?
Brenton Rickard (12:01):
it's that real hard thing about swimming that
often the good swims are quiteblurry.
Like you, you just rememberbits, and often the good swims
are quite blurry.
Like you, you just rememberbits and pieces.
The bad swims stick with youclear as day forever.
But um, for me it's such aspecial defining moment of my
career, as I said, I I missedAthens.
You know I was a Australianrecord holder going into the
(12:22):
Athens trials and really I wasprobably arrogant as a
20-year-old and didn't prepareproperly and all those things
and didn't perform at trials andmiss the team by, you know, a
tenth or two of a second andkind of had the question of do I
(12:43):
want to keep doing this?
Do I want to, you know, keepswimming?
Do I just want to walk away?
And you know I made the choicepretty early on that I still
felt I had something to do, butas much success as I had in the
three years after that, itwasn't until Beijing that I
really felt like I could redeemmyself for lack of a better
(13:14):
phrase and, you know, have thattraining achievement or get that
opportunity back to go to anOlympics that I'd missed four
years earlier.
So it was a very differentexperience than 2004 in terms of
.
You know, when I stood on theblocks at trials, I had absolute
confidence in my preparationand what I was capable of and
what I could do.
I think, getting over making theteam and putting that part
behind me, but looking toactually go to the Games.
I had an excellent preparationand I did things in preparation
(13:38):
for that that I'd neverphysically been capable before.
But you also get there andrealize that everyone in the
world does that, like it's theolympics, where you get the best
out of yourself but everyone'sgetting the best out of yourself
.
So as much as you've liftedyour game, so is everyone else.
So, um, I think I got fifth inthe hundred at the start of the
(13:59):
week and swam well and was, Ithink, a tenth of a second off a
bronze medal.
But you know, you just kind ofsit there and go right.
This is how it's going to be.
I've got to be right on pointfor this 200 a few days later.
And so the 200 is specialbecause, as I said, I wasn't
doing it four years earlier.
It was something I'd reallyworked hard to teach myself how
(14:21):
to do and develop a way oftraining for me to be
competitive in it.
And the other part is I think Idid the fifth fastest 200
breaststroke at the BeijingOlympics, like there were some
guys, because we did nighttimeheats and morning finals.
That's right yes, there weresome very fast heat swims that
(14:42):
first night because everyone wasamped up, you know nighttime
swimming, um, but once again,part of what we'd done in our
preparation was the majority ofour quality work in the morning,
because that's when we weregoing to do finals.
So, um, you know, I think I wasin lane six for the final um
and pretty much swam the race,know exactly how we kind of
(15:06):
planned it for the four yearsthat we kind of developed how I
was going to swim it and yeah,it was kind of the opposite of
the 100.
There was, I think, three of usthat touched within 0.2 of a
second but I was the first oneto touch out of that group and
so I get the silver medal.
You know, kazuki Kitajima fromJapan won.
(15:28):
He won both the 100 and 200 andwas really the gold standard at
the time and you just kind ofhave to tip your hat.
As good as I was, he was a cutabove, but I just remember
touching that wall and going myGod, I've got a silver medal at
the Olympics.
Yeah, I've done it, doneeverything I could, but also
(15:51):
like physically just exhausted,like just absolutely all I could
give um, and and the other part.
You know, the little piece ofsporting history that I say I
was involved with was we then, acouple of days later, do the
4x1 and when Michael Phelps iswinning his eighth gold medal,
(16:12):
we're on the second place podium, which it'd be a much cooler
story that if we'd stopped himwinning the eighth gold medal,
and I'd feel a lot better aboutit as well.
But that's a special piece ofhistory to be a part of and
that's one of those ones.
Like, we had a very you know,the three other boys won a medal
in their individual strokes.
(16:34):
You know, hayden won a medal inthe 100 back, andrew
Lauderstein in the 100 fly andEamon Sullivan was second in the
100 free, and so my fifth placein the 100 breaststroke was
actually the lowest performanceout of the group individually.
So we had a pretty stacked team.
But you know, the Americans,like they always are, were
(16:56):
similar, like they had medalistsacross the board and we were
kind of neck and neck, andPhelps' leg in particular,
particular.
He absolutely smashed out thebutterfly leg and just probably
took that race just that littlebit out of arms.
Like then I think we got beatenby a third of a second or so.
So we were right there, butjust not quite good enough.
(17:16):
Um, and, and I, you know, myrecollection of that experience
is, yeah, as I said it was, itwas michael.
Take gold medal.
You know, I'd won a silvermedal, I think, three days
earlier and I barely slept,slept or stopped smiling for
those three days, like you.
Just so, and part of what madephelps so great was, you know,
(17:37):
in that time I think he'd wonthree events.
He'd won the hundred fly, he'dwon that medley relay, um, and
something else, maybe the 400 IMor 200 200 I am might have been
200, I am in the 100 fly andyou're just kind of like how do
you just keep doing theseperformances and and just like
letting it wash over you andphysically getting yourself back
(18:00):
to a state to swim fast againand mentally and emotionally
getting yourself.
And he was just a machine thatweek.
So that's my recollection ofthat race more than anything,
like we did a good job but wejust weren't quite good enough,
but you just were in awe of whathe was capable of doing.
Danielle Spurling (18:17):
Yeah Well, a silver medal, two silver medals
at the Olympics.
He's nothing to sneer about.
I think it's the most brilliantswimming and you should be so
proud of yourself.
Brenton Rickard (18:28):
Yeah don't get me wrong, I am incredibly proud
and, as I said, especially that200, considering going from not
swimming the event to medallingin it for being a silver
medalist in it is, I think, areflection of the work Vince and
I did and, as I said, it wasreally there was a lot of
(18:49):
thought put into the trainingfor it because, as I said, I'm
not a natural 200 breaststroker.
We've kind of discussed thedifference between me and Zach
but at the same time, likefinding a way to get that type
of performance out of me, bothin terms of my body and my
physiology.
um, yeah was was, I think, areal special achievement he must
(19:12):
be a really great coach, vinceyeah, I've got a.
You know, I started swimmingwith Vince when I was 10, so he
was kind of my coach all throughmy formative teenage years and
then into my elite years.
So and I think he's one of thethings I give Vince a lot of
credit for.
Two things is one, he's a realplanner and thinker.
(19:36):
He does look at the wholeseason, the whole year, the
whole Olympic cycle and kind oflook at how we're going to use
that time and what we're goingto of look at how we're going to
use that that time and whatwe're going to focus on and
where we're going to race andthose things.
And I think the other thing ishe's learned and adapted, like
the vince that I startedswimming with in the mid 1990s.
(19:58):
Is is different to the vincethat zach swam with the last
whatever six, eight years.
So I think it's easy for anyonewho has some level of success
to go.
This is how I do things andthis is what I'm going to do.
Whereas Vince learnt, heevolved.
He's coached sprinters, he'scoached breaststrokers, he's
(20:20):
coached backstrokers, he coachedjust Santa Catarina and the
open water swimming.
Danielle Spurling (20:28):
Like he's had a real range of of athletes and
and adapted and evolved to each, each personality and each, I
guess, personal physiology aswell and from that wonderful
beijing sort of results that youhad, you went on the next year
to win a gold medal at the worldchamps in the 100 breast, so
you sort of flipped it back tothe 100 next time around.
(20:49):
How did that race go and howdid you feel about it?
Brenton Rickard (20:55):
yeah, like once again those, those two swims
between probably that, that 200breast at the olympics and the
100 breast world record andworld title at the Rome World
Champs in 09, are probably thetwo swims that I consider my
greatest swims.
It's a really hard one becauseit was in the era of swimsuits,
(21:20):
so we, you know it makes it hardto understand how that swim
compares Like don't get me wrong, you know all eight of us lined
up in a suit and I was thefirst one to the wall and I'd
done it faster than anyone else.
So I don't think it necessarilytakes away from the world title
or the world record.
(21:40):
I think it's more so that foryears after, when the rules went
back, I kind of sit there andgo, well, this was a good swim,
what's that like comparatively?
So that part of it is always isalways a difficult part of of
swimming in era.
And you know it coincided withme being in my mid-20s, in my
(22:01):
peak physical years, so but Ijust remember, you know I'd had
a great preparation, we werereally confident about the 100.
And you know we were there torace and win.
Like I just I remember going,you know I'm here and it was a.
(22:22):
Really, if you watch the replayof that race, it was a really
close field and I just rememberlike coming off the wall and
just nailing the turn and justfeeling like I was invincible
for you know, probably for 40metres off that wall, like the
last 10 metres, like there's notomorrow, and just feeling like
(22:43):
I was, yeah, I was just chargingthrough the water basically,
and I kind of did like I wasn'tout.
In hindsight, yeah, I probablywould have gone out a bit
quicker if I had my time again.
But ultimately for that race Ijust kind of was mid-pack at the
turn and then just kind of cameoff the wall.
(23:06):
I was a bit long on the touch,which a lot of people remind me
of when they see it, butstretched my fingers and got
into the wall basically.
But you know, another one ofthose cases where it was a close
finish and I was on the rightside of it, you know, and when
you look back across a careerthat spans probably, you know,
(23:26):
10, 11 years on the Australianteam, I had my fair share of
both sides of it.
I think I got touched out by0.01 at the Melbourne
Commonwealth Games in 2006.
And you know, between Beijingand Rome.
I probably got two touches byless than a tenth of a second
each.
So it kind of across the grandscheme of things.
(23:46):
You probably win some and youlose some, but it's nice when
you're on the winning side of itand to that point I'd probably
won a lot of minor medals,silver medals, bronze medals.
So that was really the firsttime we'd won a relay at World
Champs prior to that, but thatwas really the first time I got
to stand on the top step andhave the anthem played in your
(24:07):
honour and that side of it isreally special.
And I think that part ofbreaking the world record you
know at the time and still tothis day, being being the winner
was the most important thing.
You know we we're competitiveand to be the best in the world.
But you know now that I havekids and explaining to them that
(24:30):
once upon a time daddy had aworld record and that there was
a point in history where nohuman being had done 100 meters
of breaststroke quicker than me,and letting that sink into
their heads and and then getsome understanding of it, you
know that side of it's prettycool to see them understand.
You know more than just oh yeah, dad, I thought you liked
(24:51):
swimming to actually kind of gowell, you're actually pretty,
pretty good at that, so I thinkthat side of it's pretty special
as well.
Danielle Spurling (25:01):
Yeah, I mean you reflect back on it now.
I mean you were the fastestperson in the world.
That just blows my mind.
Brenton Rickard (25:09):
Yeah, and, as I said, like I still love the
fact that I won, like I'd muchrather be the world champion
than to have broken the worldrecord at some other event, but
to do them both at the one theone race and the race that
mattered.
You know, we always talked alot about keeping your best
performance for the race thatmattered most, which was the
(25:29):
final, and so to do it there inthe one the one race was was
really special.
Danielle Spurling (25:35):
And you were on the Australian team for such
a long time and had a number ofleadership roles sort of during
that time and you are obviouslynow in sports admin.
Is that one of the reasons thatyou went into that?
Brenton Rickard (25:49):
No, I wouldn't say I like I really enjoyed the
team leadership roles that I hadback on the team.
Like I didn't necessarily likeit was an honour, but it was
also one of those things thatnearly all of it was things I
was going to do either way, andI think there's a whole number
(26:12):
of members on the team thatdon't necessarily put their hand
up to be a team leader orcaptain, but play an important
role leadership role within theswimming group, um, and so all
that stuff was always stuff thatI felt like I was going to do.
Yeah, regardless, I'm happy tohappy to put my hand up and and
(26:34):
do that, but also I I reallyrecognise that there was a lot
of people, a lot of teammates ofmine, that played such
important roles that neveractually were formally
recognised for it.
The sports administration andespecially events side of things
that I do was just happenst,since, really, I moved from
(26:59):
Canberra to the Gold Coast endof 2009 after I won that world
title, and it justcoincidentally was when the Gold
Coast was bidding to host the2018 Commonwealth Games, and so
I ended up being a little bit ofan athlete ambassador for the
bid, just by chance that I washere at the time, which they of
(27:23):
course then won, and so throughthat process got to know a
little bit about, I guess, theCommonwealth Games bidding
process, the organisation, theorganising committee and so
whatever.
Two, three years later, when Igot back from the London
Olympics, I ran into one of thestaff members from the bid,
who's now a staff member at theorganising committee, and she
(27:46):
asked me to come in to speak tothe I think they had 24-odd
staff at that stage and kind ofasked me the question was raised
about whether I would keepswimming or and at that stage I
was like I think I will there'sa couple things I want to keep
trying with my career, but Iknow I'm not necessarily going
(28:08):
to swim another four years tothe next Olympics.
And then you know, what wouldyou like to do after swimming?
And I just coincidentally said,oh yeah, I'd actually think I'd
like to work at the Gold CoastCommonwealth Games.
It's here, it's something thatI know a little bit about now,
and I basically left that daywith a part-time job while I was
(28:31):
swimming.
So I think I was number 26 or 27to start at the organising
committee that had 1,200 staffby games time.
So I saw it go from this smalllittle group of us to a huge,
mammoth workforce to deliver abig and successful game.
(28:51):
So yeah, it was not somethingthat I necessarily thought a lot
about in the lead up to thatdate but yeah, I coincidentally
volunteered my time a little bitto be an ambassador and then
kind of fell in love with it.
So I've been doing doing eventsand sports admins since then.
Danielle Spurling (29:12):
And in 2022, Melbourne took over last minute
to host the FINA World ShortCourse Champs and you were
appointed executive director.
Can you share with us how youwere able to pull that together
in such a short amount of time?
Because it was what?
Six to eight months orsomething.
Brenton Rickard (29:29):
Yeah, it was short and it was a phenomenal
experience and I'm incrediblygrateful both for the
opportunity to do.
The role and the help I had orthe staff members I worked with
were incredible, but also Iwould not put myself or other
(29:50):
people through that again.
So basically it must have beenabout May 2022,.
I get a call saying, hey,australia might host World
Swimming Champs, short course,would you head it up?
And my initial response was no,because at the time I was
(30:14):
working for the CommonwealthGames Federation.
I was going to have to spend amonth in Birmingham for the
Birmingham Games in July, august22, and Eugenie Buckley, who
was CEO of Swimming Australia,basically twisted my arm a
little bit and said well, look,you can start now.
Get some staff in, get thingsrolling, go do your month over
(30:39):
there and when you come back,you can kind of have the last.
You know, get some staff in,get things rolling, go do your
month over there and when youcome back, you can kind of have
the last whatever four months toevent time, which, yeah, sounds
good.
But yeah, it's not that simple,especially when you're
executive director.
You kind of I was, you know, upin the morning at 5 o'clock, uk
time doing meetings withAustralia, to then go do 14, 16
(31:00):
hour days at the games, to go tobed at midnight.
So, um it was.
It was pretty taxing anddemanding, um, but I am
phenomenally proud of the eventwe put on in the time frame and
for me, a big part of it waswith the budget we had.
You know, we had a significantamount of money, but in the
(31:25):
grand scheme of things, you know, significantly less than what
had been spent on events likethis in the past.
So you know, to give you a bitof an idea, I think Doha World
Champs, which was early 23 andhad all the disciplines sorry,
early this year, early 24.
And so that had all the aquaticdisciplines, just not pool
(31:48):
swimming.
But it had a budget about 25times larger than ours to do
eight disciplines compared toone.
So we didn't quite have thatthat level of of of cash.
But we also, you know we knew,australians love swimming.
We've got a, got a pool there,msac, that has hosted big events
(32:12):
.
Um, and as long as there wassome flexibility from FINA, now
World Aquatics, which there was,we can deliver a great event.
And we had a point ofdifference.
Like usually, world ShortCourse is December every even
year in a Northern hemispherecountry, which means it's winter
(32:37):
, it's's dark, it's cold, it'spotentially snowing outside, and
you can come to melbourne and,and although we copped some rain
the first couple days, we hadvery cold weather then.
Yeah, it was cold but the sun,the sun did come out for the
last, you know, three, four daysof the event and it was
beautiful, um, and we had 13world records in a week, which
(33:00):
is, um, pretty amazing, um, foran event that had a whatever
seven month lead in time.
So I know, you know, uh, ingridproud and jody hawkins and, um,
the swimming austral Australiaevents team that you know I
asked a lot of them and theydelivered.
(33:20):
But, yeah, I wouldn't becomfortable asking that much of
anyone again.
Having gone through it andknowing what was required to
deliver an event on that amountof time and with those budget
constraints, I wouldn't do thatagain on anyone.
Danielle Spurling (33:38):
Well.
From the outside, looking in,it looked very successful and it
was smooth running the wholeway and everything worked well
around msac in terms oflogistics, like parking and
getting into the venue andeverything.
Brenton Rickard (33:50):
So you must all be very proud with the way it
turned out yeah, yeah, and, and,yeah, as I said, um, yeah, and,
and I think also there's thatelement of the, the look of it.
You know the, the broadcastpictures that went around the
world, the, the little bits ofaustralian that we did that.
You know the indigenous designof the logo and on the medals,
(34:12):
the use of the brighton beachboxes to walk out to receive
their medals, like they're allthings that I I feel not
necessarily uniquely australian,but something that we made the
effort to bring to the tablethat you know, sometimes a
swimming champs can be a pool ina big dark box and that's what
(34:34):
it is, whereas, you know, msacis is semi-enosed, so we had the
sun setting in the west and thebeautiful summer light and all
these things that we kind ofleaned into to make it something
a bit different than the normal.
So, yeah, I'm incredibly proudof all that.
And what are you working on atthe moment, if you're allowed to
tell us, I'm back working forthe Commonwealth Games
(34:56):
Federation, so it's been a bigperiod for them, obviously, with
everything that happened inVictoria last year, but we're
working hard to hopefully find ahost for 26.
And so I know there's been afair bit in the media about that
, but we continue to work hardto find a solution because we're
(35:20):
all very firm believers that ithas an important place on the
sporting calendar.
It has an important place inthe hearts of Australians and
members of the Commonwealth.
So, yeah, trying to find asolution that works for 26 and
moving forward for 2030 andbeyond.
Danielle Spurling (35:39):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Now, in 2020,.
You had one of the biggestchallenges in your life, and
that was being falsely accusedof doping, and I wanted to touch
on this from a mental healthperspective and find out how you
worked your way through that.
Brenton Rickard (35:55):
Slowly and hardly.
So it was obviously it's.
It's a shattering experiencethat to go through um.
It's one of those ones that itcompletely comes from out of the
blue.
Nothing, nothing you can do,can prepare you for that moment
or um, and can prepare you forthat moment, and there's a real,
(36:27):
I guess natural tension betweenhow you feel and how you feel
others might perceive you onceit happens.
So from a mental healthstandpoint it was complicated
because one.
I got notified, I guess maybesix weeks before the world shut
down with COVID, which includedthe lab that needed to test my B
(36:48):
sample.
So you kind of go through theinitial process of understanding
what you're being accused of orwhat the, what the the
substance is and what the thelegal process is to try to prove
your innocence, um, and thenthere's some um I guess, the
(37:09):
technical side of things aboutgetting your b sample tested, um
and and through it all.
In my case I had the real guiltand doubt about.
You know, we won a bronze medalin the medley relay at the end
of that week after the 200brushstroke, which is when the
test happened.
So you know, potentially beingresponsible for myself and five
(37:33):
other gentlemen losing a bronzemedal is, is probably that the
hardest weight to bear, um, andthere is no yeah, negotiating or
deal making or any of thosethings.
It's.
It's not not a question ofbrent and you're getting
(37:54):
punished, it's it's the teamgets disqualified.
So that part of it was probablythe hardest part From a mental
health point of view.
There's probably a few thingsthat I didn't realise were
taking as significant a toll onme as they were.
One of them was that you knowonly months earlier, um, one of
(38:21):
them was that, you know, onlymonths earlier, shana jack's
confidentiality got broken andand I had a real fear of me
waking up one day and findingout that mine had been broken
and that it would be a story.
So that feeling of potential,uh disaster was, um, was quite
real, and it's one of thosethings that you know week after
(38:45):
week, month after month.
It really takes a toll on you,it really adds up and with that
then comes I guess the otherthing that took a real toll on
me was, you know, keeping mycircle quite tight in terms of
who I told, and so for a largepart of it I hadn't even spoken
to the relay boys One and, Iguess, other close friends that
(39:13):
I didn't tell and part of it was, you know, there was that hope
that you know the beast templecomes back negative.
You've got no, no case toanswer.
You can put it all behind you.
It's almost a feeling of beingfraudulent that you would speak
to people that you hadn't toldand they'd be like oh, how are
you going?
Oh yeah, things are great, youknow, and that not being able to
(39:39):
be your true self was reallyquite taxing.
But at the same time youcouldn't just I wouldn't have
felt comfortable going aroundand telling everyone either,
because you do kind of hope thatyou get a resolution.
So, and I guess from a from amental health standpoint you
(40:01):
know I'm Ollie, was was threemonths old when I got told, so
you kind of have a young childand that has its challenges.
Covid's happening, so you knowEmily's home 24 7.
I work from home.
So there was a a wholecombination of factors that made
it, combination of factors thatmade it challenging.
(40:28):
And then there's the fact thatI work in sport and my
professional reputation willprobably be ruined um by this
all as well, and that I may not.
You know the the day I got toldI basically this at that time
was doing multiple part-timecontracts and I had to resign
two of them those days because Icouldn't perform the role,
because I'd be workingface-to-face with athletes,
(40:50):
which you can't really do whenyou're under investigation for
doping violations.
So, yeah, so there's a wholerange of factors and, you know,
the stoic athlete in me kind ofgoes oh yeah, I'm looking after
myself, I'm doing the and andthere was that real realization,
(41:11):
probably after a few months ofactually no, I'm, I'm, I'm
barely hanging on here.
I really need some professionalhelp, um, which I, which I
sought and got, and you know,you combine that with you know,
the, the love and care thatbetween my wife and my family
and and and the friends thatknew gave me kind of gets you
(41:35):
through.
Um, but it's still.
It's still a huge challenge andyou know, I still remember that
day that I basically spent anhour and a half calling each of
the guys and explaining thesituation to and and how hard
that was and and and I guess the.
You kind of have the flip sideof that, that when I was finally
(41:56):
told that the case was beingdropped after, you know, 19
months and and some of thosethings and and the emotions that
come up with that, that there's.
There's naturally an anger ofhaving to endure such a thing
just to to know what you'vealways known, that you know you
didn't do anything wrong, youweren't guilty, you, you didn't
(42:19):
cheat um.
There's all those things andyou know I've talked a little
bit about in in recent timesthat I probably then spent the
first, you know, 18 months, twoyears after being, after the
case being dropped, you know,trying to reclaim what was taken
from me, which is is not a nota healthy way to live either,
(42:42):
like um.
You know, the, the worldswimming champs opportunity.
I think I would have jumped atthat either way, but I think my
mentality was well, this isgreat.
You know, someone, you know thiscase tried to take swimming
from me.
I, I want to take it back and Iwant to go and and work in the,
(43:03):
the um, in the industry again,in the sport again, so which,
once again, I don't think.
I think I would have doneeither way, but it's that
mentality of no, this is a greatopportunity.
I want to make the most of this, you know.
I want to be able to put on agreat swimming event and make it
not about me and my I guess, mybaggage from that period and
(43:27):
make it more about theopportunity and producing
something great, which, onceagain, I think we did.
So there's some of those thingsthat I've kind of become aware
of and now just kind of goinglook, as much as I hate it, this
, this doping saga, is part ofmy story.
It's part of my history.
Nothing I can do will erasethat.
(43:50):
All I can do now is just try tolive the best I can, moving
forward.
That it's there.
It happened and, yeah, I gotthrough it.
You know we ultimately got theoutcome that I feel like I
deserved and yeah, hopefully,yeah, I can just live the best
life I can from that pointonwards.
Danielle Spurling (44:10):
Well, I think those 2022 champs came along
right at exactly the right timefor you, because it sort of
probably helped you.
I'm putting words in your mouth, but a bit of closure and sort
of a full circle, and then youprobably felt like that was such
a success.
You could then move on yeah,yeah, absolutely it was.
Brenton Rickard (44:29):
It was one of those things that there was such
a cathartic effect of being ata pool and being happy and proud
and and that's really somethingthat I felt for a long time I
wasn't sure I'd ever be able todo to walk into, you know, an
Olympic trials and just tospectate and actually feel okay
(44:51):
to be there or or to dive into apool and just be happy to be in
the water again.
So there was certainly acathartic and closure effect of
of that that world champs and Ilet you go.
Danielle Spurling (45:04):
I wanted to get your perspective on the form
strokes that the Aussies slamin Paris.
So, aside from Kayleigh andZach, we were sort of a little
down on the table in a lot ofour form races and I wondered
what your perspective was andwhat you think we need to do in
Australia to change that beforeBrisbane.
Brenton Rickard (45:23):
Yeah, it's an interesting question and I can't
say I well, I probably noticedwhat you're talking about, but I
can't say I've got any realgreat solutions.
I'm probably not close enoughto the sport to do that.
And it's one of those ones thatyou kind of see and you go.
There's clearly parts that areworking, like, like you say,
(45:45):
kaylee was once again out ofthis amazing good yeah, zach
zach was was excellent, that 200brushstroke and and I I think I
got to give some credit to matttemple as well in the hundred
fly and and and emma, but butthere were some events that you
just kind of like.
You know, how are we going toget you know, some of these
(46:07):
events were times people wereswimming yeah, 15, 20 years ago,
and that the world of swimmingcontinues to march forward and
we've got to be part of thatprogression as well.
So how do we find the rightathletes and get them the right
training to progress?
And, yeah, as I said, I don'treally have the answers.
(46:31):
The one thing I'm a bigbeliever in is that swimming
training should be, you know,horses for courses, for lack of
a better phrase that.
You know, training forbreaststroke isn't necessarily
the same as training for forfreestyle, you know, even if the
distance is the same and, and Ithink, even to like, we
(46:52):
obviously did a bit of work,men's breaststroke and women's
backstroke at quite similartimes.
So at different, differentpoints through my career, we,
you know, men's men'sbreaststroke and women's
backstrokers would would kind oftrain together, but even then
the the physiology differencebetween the strokes is quite
pronounced.
So so you, while you swimsimilar times and therefore you
(47:14):
might be able to do certainthings on similar time time
basis, it doesn't alwaysnecessarily reflect the, the
strokes.
So I think I think thatcontinued development of
personalized training orpersonalized stroke training is
really important.
I think the other part is um,you know, it's probably me with
(47:35):
my breaststroke hat is, you know, form strokes, breaststroke and
butterfly in particular.
They're incredibly technical,like if, if your rhythm's not
quite right, it can gopear-shaped very quickly, and so
that constant need fortechnical work and to be
technically on point, you know,on your good days, but probably
(47:57):
even more so on your on your baddays, if you can swim well when
you're not feeling great oryou're not quite quite quite
there, that's going to lead toalways being able to swim fast
or swim well when it matters.
So to me that's probably theother part, just that that need
for, I guess, specializedtraining for those strokes and
and that constant technical,technical eye for those form
(48:21):
strokes as well yeah, well,maybe mel marshall coming to the
Gold Coast might be, becauseshe's obviously worked with Adam
Peaty, so maybe that will be aninjection for our form strokes.
Yeah, he's hoping yeahabsolutely.
Danielle Spurling (48:35):
And one last thing.
I don't know whether you cananswer this, but I know
obviously you're working withCommonwealth Games.
I was speaking to MoeshaJohnson yesterday and she
mentioned that there's no openwater at the Commonwealth Games.
I was speaking to MoeshaJohnson yesterday and she
mentioned that there's no openwater at the Commonwealth Games.
Brenton Rickard (48:48):
No, there's only.
I don't think they've ever hadopen water at the Commonwealth
Games.
It's probably a number offactors that I guess gets
reviewed when events are putforward, and part of it is the
costs and challenges of puttingon the event.
Part of it can be depth offield and I know, having spoken
(49:12):
to the World Aquatic guysrecently, that they're actually
the quality and depth of fieldacross the world and I guess
Commonwealth Nations has greatlyimproved the last few years and
so you know you probably look10, 12 years ago and it would be
, you know, your australia's,your great, your british
(49:32):
territories and your canada andnew zealand would be the main
countries doing it, whereas nowthere's probably more spread of
countries participating.
So the case is probablystronger than ever.
But to this point, yeah, but thecost of, I guess all the
requirements for an open waterswim and um and the challenges
(49:53):
with, with athletesparticipating from the full
range of commonwealth countries,has probably been part of the
story.
So, um, yeah, we'll.
We'll see whether it, uh, itcomes up for consideration.
2026 is about finding, findinga host and and and running a
games.
But I think, moving forward,what a games might look like is
(50:14):
is definitely um going to berevitalized and and revisited
yeah, no, that's that soundsgood.
Danielle Spurling (50:22):
Well, thank you so, brenton, for joining us
on the podcast today.
I really appreciate hearing allabout your swimming journey and
your candour and best wishesfor finding a venue for those
Commonwealth Games.
Brenton Rickard (50:35):
Thank you very much.
Danielle Spurling (50:37):
Okay, bye, bye, take care, bye Till next
time.
Happy swimming and bye for now.
Hello swimmers and welcome to another
episode of Torpedo Swim Talkpodcast.
I'm your host, Danielle Sprling, and each week, we chat to an
inspiring swimmer from aroundthe world about their swimming
journey.
Today, I speak with Olympicmedalist from Beijing and London
, brenton Rickard.
Brenton was a superstar inbreaststroke swimming, with a
(00:31):
world record and worldchampionship in 2009, as well as
Commonwealth Games medals alongthe way.
He now works as a sportsadministrator for the
Commonwealth Games Foundationand has a unique perspective
about swimming, both from thenand now, as well as a doping
scandal which he has had to gothrough after being falsely
accused of doping.
(00:52):
So, as you can see, we had alot to talk about.
Let's hear from Brenton now.
Hi Brenton, welcome to thepodcast.
Brenton Rickard (01:05):
Thanks for having me.
Danielle Spurling (01:06):
Yeah, you're so welcome.
Where are you based inAustralia now and do you get
much swimming in these days?
Brenton Rickard (01:12):
I'm on the Gold Coast these days, so I've been
here for 15-odd years, finishedmy swimming career here and
started my professional careerhere.
I guess I do get in once a weekor so.
I've got two fairly young kidsso it's hard to find much more
time for swimming other thanthat, but I still do quite enjoy
it.
Danielle Spurling (01:31):
Yeah, do you swim alone when you get in or
are you with some mates?
Brenton Rickard (01:36):
A better mixture of both.
My wife and I tried to have abit of a routine of going once a
week together, which was quitenice.
She's not a swimmer, but it wasjust nice to have some company.
I did have a group ofex-swimmers as well that we used
to swim a bit with, but it'sjust hard to to schedule times
(01:57):
when we're all three,unfortunately, so most of the
time I do end up swimming alone.
Danielle Spurling (02:01):
Yeah, how old are your kids?
Brenton Rickard (02:04):
Emily's about turn eight and Ollie's about
turn five.
So Ollie starts school nextyear, which he's very excited
for.
Danielle Spurling (02:12):
Yeah, look, that's such an intensive time in
family life.
It's so hard to sort of gettime away from that when you've
got kids and they've got theirown sport commitments as well.
So good on you for getting tothe pool.
I think that's great.
Yeah, as I I said, still reallyenjoy it.
It's just finding the time.
That's the high part.
Brenton Rickard (02:32):
Yeah, absolutely did you enjoy
watching the swimming in Paris?
I did, I did.
It was um, it was aninteresting meet, like, uh, some
events were phenomenally fast,some events were, I guess,
surprisingly slow maybe notsurprisingly, but not but not as
quick as you expected, but justthe level of competition and
there's just, I guess, everychance, but every Olympics in
particular, there's justmind-blowing performances.
(02:54):
Leon Marchand doing what he didwas just out of this world, and
likewise, yeah, that 100 metrefree was insane.
Danielle Spurling (03:06):
So, yeah, just every meet just surprises
us, again and again yeah, and Imean, in 20 years, no one is
going to remember the times.
It's the, the olympic medal,that they remember, isn't it?
Yeah, absolutely what do youput the, the sort of slower
times across the board down to?
Are you, are you along thistheory of the shallow pool?
Brenton Rickard (03:26):
Yeah, I've certainly had my fair share of
swimming in shallow pools and Ithink it does make a small
difference.
I think also, when you look athow much technology ends up in
the water these days betweenrail cams and lap counters and
other cameras, still cameras,video cameras, that no doubt
(03:48):
just adds to the drag across thepool.
But I think the other part is,you know, olympic finals are
tense and sometimes that wholefeel, that whole, all the
contestants can feel thattension and just not quite
necessarily from the best time.
It's more about the race, it'sabout beating the, the people on
(04:09):
either side of you, versus justposting a time.
So sometimes you see, yeah,especially semi-finals be very
quick and then the final be atouch slower, because it's more
about the race than than thetime and I mean, how difficult
is it when you get into theolympic village and you have to
deal with all the pressuresthere as well?
It comes with the territory.
(04:29):
I think it's one of those onesthat, yeah, I'm a sports fan.
So you go into an OlympicVillage and you see, you know, I
remember going into Beijing andseeing Serena Williams lining
up at the dining hall the firsttime I was there You're just
like wow, you know, like legendsof their particular sports.
So there's that side of it.
But I mean, in terms ofpressure, I always felt like the
(04:53):
expectations we had forourselves was always sky high.
Anyway, you know, you're there,you're not there to make up a
field, you're there to compete.
You're there to win medals,you're there to try to win the
thing.
Make up a field, you're thereto compete.
You're there to win medals,you're there to try to win the
thing.
And so you know, I don't thinkanything externally ever mounts
close to to what your ownexpectations are for yourself
(05:13):
and what you're trying toachieve and looking at your pet
events the uh, the breaststroke100 and 200.
Danielle Spurling (05:19):
What did you think of those two races in
Paris for the men?
Brenton Rickard (05:23):
Yeah, like I don't mean this in a term of
slander or anything like that,but I was surprised that the 100
wasn't one in a quicker time.
Like you know, there were anumber of guys you know that
have made 58 standard, which youknow.
Back when I swam, you know myworld record was 58, 58, 5, 8
(05:45):
and that was the quickest everat the time.
So you know that they, you knowI think adam pd is an absolute
legend of the stroke and what hedid to move the event forward
the 100 breaststroke forward is,you know, was really quite
groundbreaking and I think overtime people have learned to swim
that way as well and so you sawmuch more of the world swimming
(06:07):
into that 58 lows and and and57s by 57s, um, so then to see
in the final that yeah, 59, ohwas, was kind of a bit bit
surprising, um, but then I thinkthe 200, like you know, zach
I've had a bit to do here withzach in australia and um, my old
(06:30):
coach was vince, who coachedjack as well.
So we we've had a connection fora number of years and so you
know to see him swim as well ashe did, like his swim was pretty
high level, like there's nottoo many swims in history
quicker than that.
But then have leon do what hedid in the way he did it like
(06:50):
205 from a non-breaststrokespecialist is just.
It was mind-blowing really tosee him and to have done it
after already doing a the 200fly final that day, and the way
he did that was just justincredible.
So, um, I think certainly inthe hundred, like the depth of
competition continues to developand grow and that you know the
(07:13):
60, 60 points not going to getyou anywhere, but at the same
time to not have that really,really high-end performance to
win the gold medal was wassomewhat surprising.
Danielle Spurling (07:24):
And I know you had a bit to do with Zach.
You just said what do you thinkabout his tactics with the way
he swims the 200, with cominghome on that giving everyone?
A heart attack and coming homeso fast on the last one.
Brenton Rickard (07:36):
Yeah, look, I think one of the absolute great
things about breaststroke ispeople really swim it to suit
their own physiology, both interms of their technique but
also their tactics.
Um, and zach is one of thoseguys that can do breaststroke
today and and so you've got tolean into that strength and that
(07:57):
is, you know he doesn't havefront end speed to burn, so you
know he's never going to go outand you know, 60-point in the
200 breast, like Leon did.
So instead you've just got tobe able to come home over the
top.
So I think, you know, I thinkwatching the semi, you're kind
of going right.
(08:17):
You've got to put yourself inthe race a little bit more than
that, but I think in the finalhe did.
He swam it the way he shouldswim it, which he was, you know,
mid-pack at the halfway turnand mowing people down.
It was just that leon just swaman incredible race and gave
himself such a lead that youknow he could couldn't be caught
.
So there I, as I said, I thinkit's one of the great things
(08:39):
about breaststroke that we allyou know you can really lean
into your strengths and you know, and and swim technically that
way, but also tactically thatway and the way that vince used
to coach you with the 100 and200 breaststroke.
Danielle Spurling (08:54):
Is that this exactly the same way he's doing
that with zach now, or has itchanged a lot over the?
Brenton Rickard (08:59):
years it, it, it's evolved.
It's evolved a bit, but alsoit's it's.
It's the difference in ourphysiologies.
Like I'm you know, I'm six footfour and used to race at 92, 93
kilos.
Like I'm a fairly large man andand zach is ripped, but he's
(09:19):
smaller and less powerful but,as as we mentioned, he can do it
for days.
So you know, speaking to vince,we'll talk about sets I used to
do and you know there were setsthat would would wipe me out
like I'd, by the end of it, Iwas, I was cooked, and he'd be
like, oh yeah, so zach does that, and then he'll do another 500
meters of effort or whatever.
(09:40):
You're just like how, how ow.
But it's also that like, yeah,as I said, zach probably doesn't
have that real high-end speedthat I had, and so doesn't
necessarily.
Yeah, physiologically we'rejust different athletes.
So Zach still does a lot ofstuff that I did and a lot of
similar methods.
He can just do it better forlonger.
Danielle Spurling (10:03):
Basically, what were some of those sets
that you remember from that timethat you used to have to swim?
Brenton Rickard (10:08):
um, yeah, it's, it's.
Oh, there's a range, there'ssome, um, I guess especially 100
meter sets that were back inspeed that we would kind of do
you know a 50, a 50 max, a bitof whatever, 200, easy, and then
we'd do three sets of 350s, um,back end speed type thing.
(10:29):
So you kind of end up with 500meters, whereas I'm pretty sure
speaking to vince that you knowzach does three sets of 450s and
you know it's, it's the 450that'll get you a type thing and
and he'll still be right to domore stuff after that.
You know we did a fair bit ofbroken 200 work for me.
You know, probably a bit ofhistory for the listeners, like
(10:53):
2004, when I missed the Athensteam, I wasn't even swimming the
200 breaststroke and four yearslater I'm an Olympic medalist.
So those four years was verymuch developed in teaching me
and developing training to helpme swim a 200 breaststroke as a
bigger, more powerful athletethan a lot of the 200 meter guys
.
So we did a lot of 200 brokenstuff and and same things like
(11:15):
we might do.
You know four, four, fourbroken twos and and zach will do
six and and just just that typeof thing, or do you know?
Whereas I'd have, you know, Iguess, a 30-second rest interval
between efforts, he'll do it on24.
You know, he's just thatspecial of an athlete in terms
(11:38):
of his physiology and how muchhe can get out of himself.
He can just do things more orin less rest.
It's.
Danielle Spurling (11:46):
It's pretty impressive well, you've also had
impressive results because, asyou just touched on, in beijing
you brought home silver in that200 breast and you got silver in
the men's medley relay.
What are your memories of thoseraces?
Brenton Rickard (12:01):
it's that real hard thing about swimming that
often the good swims are quiteblurry.
Like you, you just rememberbits, and often the good swims
are quite blurry.
Like you, you just rememberbits and pieces.
The bad swims stick with youclear as day forever.
But um, for me it's such aspecial defining moment of my
career, as I said, I I missedAthens.
You know I was a Australianrecord holder going into the
(12:22):
Athens trials and really I wasprobably arrogant as a
20-year-old and didn't prepareproperly and all those things
and didn't perform at trials andmiss the team by, you know, a
tenth or two of a second andkind of had the question of do I
(12:43):
want to keep doing this?
Do I want to, you know, keepswimming?
Do I just want to walk away?
And you know I made the choicepretty early on that I still
felt I had something to do, butas much success as I had in the
three years after that, itwasn't until Beijing that I
really felt like I could redeemmyself for lack of a better
(13:14):
phrase and, you know, have thattraining achievement or get that
opportunity back to go to anOlympics that I'd missed four
years earlier.
So it was a very differentexperience than 2004 in terms of
.
You know, when I stood on theblocks at trials, I had absolute
confidence in my preparationand what I was capable of and
what I could do.
I think, getting over making theteam and putting that part
behind me, but looking toactually go to the Games.
I had an excellent preparationand I did things in preparation
(13:38):
for that that I'd neverphysically been capable before.
But you also get there andrealize that everyone in the
world does that, like it's theolympics, where you get the best
out of yourself but everyone'sgetting the best out of yourself
.
So as much as you've liftedyour game, so is everyone else.
So, um, I think I got fifth inthe hundred at the start of the
(13:59):
week and swam well and was, Ithink, a tenth of a second off a
bronze medal.
But you know, you just kind ofsit there and go right.
This is how it's going to be.
I've got to be right on pointfor this 200 a few days later.
And so the 200 is specialbecause, as I said, I wasn't
doing it four years earlier.
It was something I'd reallyworked hard to teach myself how
(14:21):
to do and develop a way oftraining for me to be
competitive in it.
And the other part is I think Idid the fifth fastest 200
breaststroke at the BeijingOlympics, like there were some
guys, because we did nighttimeheats and morning finals.
That's right yes, there weresome very fast heat swims that
(14:42):
first night because everyone wasamped up, you know nighttime
swimming, um, but once again,part of what we'd done in our
preparation was the majority ofour quality work in the morning,
because that's when we weregoing to do finals.
So, um, you know, I think I wasin lane six for the final um
and pretty much swam the race,know exactly how we kind of
(15:06):
planned it for the four yearsthat we kind of developed how I
was going to swim it and yeah,it was kind of the opposite of
the 100.
There was, I think, three of usthat touched within 0.2 of a
second but I was the first oneto touch out of that group and
so I get the silver medal.
You know, kazuki Kitajima fromJapan won.
(15:28):
He won both the 100 and 200 andwas really the gold standard at
the time and you just kind ofhave to tip your hat.
As good as I was, he was a cutabove, but I just remember
touching that wall and going myGod, I've got a silver medal at
the Olympics.
Yeah, I've done it, doneeverything I could, but also
(15:51):
like physically just exhausted,like just absolutely all I could
give um, and and the other part.
You know, the little piece ofsporting history that I say I
was involved with was we then, acouple of days later, do the
4x1 and when Michael Phelps iswinning his eighth gold medal,
(16:12):
we're on the second place podium, which it'd be a much cooler
story that if we'd stopped himwinning the eighth gold medal,
and I'd feel a lot better aboutit as well.
But that's a special piece ofhistory to be a part of and
that's one of those ones.
Like, we had a very you know,the three other boys won a medal
in their individual strokes.
(16:34):
You know, hayden won a medal inthe 100 back, andrew
Lauderstein in the 100 fly andEamon Sullivan was second in the
100 free, and so my fifth placein the 100 breaststroke was
actually the lowest performanceout of the group individually.
So we had a pretty stacked team.
But you know, the Americans,like they always are, were
(16:56):
similar, like they had medalistsacross the board and we were
kind of neck and neck, andPhelps' leg in particular,
particular.
He absolutely smashed out thebutterfly leg and just probably
took that race just that littlebit out of arms.
Like then I think we got beatenby a third of a second or so.
So we were right there, butjust not quite good enough.
(17:16):
Um, and, and I, you know, myrecollection of that experience
is, yeah, as I said it was, itwas michael.
Take gold medal.
You know, I'd won a silvermedal, I think, three days
earlier and I barely slept,slept or stopped smiling for
those three days, like you.
Just so, and part of what madephelps so great was, you know,
(17:37):
in that time I think he'd wonthree events.
He'd won the hundred fly, he'dwon that medley relay, um, and
something else, maybe the 400 IMor 200 200 I am might have been
200, I am in the 100 fly andyou're just kind of like how do
you just keep doing theseperformances and and just like
letting it wash over you andphysically getting yourself back
(18:00):
to a state to swim fast againand mentally and emotionally
getting yourself.
And he was just a machine thatweek.
So that's my recollection ofthat race more than anything,
like we did a good job but wejust weren't quite good enough,
but you just were in awe of whathe was capable of doing.
Danielle Spurling (18:17):
Yeah Well, a silver medal, two silver medals
at the Olympics.
He's nothing to sneer about.
I think it's the most brilliantswimming and you should be so
proud of yourself.
Brenton Rickard (18:28):
Yeah don't get me wrong, I am incredibly proud
and, as I said, especially that200, considering going from not
swimming the event to medallingin it for being a silver
medalist in it is, I think, areflection of the work Vince and
I did and, as I said, it wasreally there was a lot of
(18:49):
thought put into the trainingfor it because, as I said, I'm
not a natural 200 breaststroker.
We've kind of discussed thedifference between me and Zach
but at the same time, likefinding a way to get that type
of performance out of me, bothin terms of my body and my
physiology.
um, yeah was was, I think, areal special achievement he must
(19:12):
be a really great coach, vinceyeah, I've got a.
You know, I started swimmingwith Vince when I was 10, so he
was kind of my coach all throughmy formative teenage years and
then into my elite years.
So and I think he's one of thethings I give Vince a lot of
credit for.
Two things is one, he's a realplanner and thinker.
(19:36):
He does look at the wholeseason, the whole year, the
whole Olympic cycle and kind oflook at how we're going to use
that time and what we're goingto of look at how we're going to
use that that time and whatwe're going to focus on and
where we're going to race andthose things.
And I think the other thing ishe's learned and adapted, like
the vince that I startedswimming with in the mid 1990s.
(19:58):
Is is different to the vincethat zach swam with the last
whatever six, eight years.
So I think it's easy for anyonewho has some level of success
to go.
This is how I do things andthis is what I'm going to do.
Whereas Vince learnt, heevolved.
He's coached sprinters, he'scoached breaststrokers, he's
(20:20):
coached backstrokers, he coachedjust Santa Catarina and the
open water swimming.
Danielle Spurling (20:28):
Like he's had a real range of of athletes and
and adapted and evolved to each, each personality and each, I
guess, personal physiology aswell and from that wonderful
beijing sort of results that youhad, you went on the next year
to win a gold medal at the worldchamps in the 100 breast, so
you sort of flipped it back tothe 100 next time around.
(20:49):
How did that race go and howdid you feel about it?
Brenton Rickard (20:55):
yeah, like once again those, those two swims
between probably that, that 200breast at the olympics and the
100 breast world record andworld title at the Rome World
Champs in 09, are probably thetwo swims that I consider my
greatest swims.
It's a really hard one becauseit was in the era of swimsuits,
(21:20):
so we, you know it makes it hardto understand how that swim
compares Like don't get me wrong, you know all eight of us lined
up in a suit and I was thefirst one to the wall and I'd
done it faster than anyone else.
So I don't think it necessarilytakes away from the world title
or the world record.
(21:40):
I think it's more so that foryears after, when the rules went
back, I kind of sit there andgo, well, this was a good swim,
what's that like comparatively?
So that part of it is always isalways a difficult part of of
swimming in era.
And you know it coincided withme being in my mid-20s, in my
(22:01):
peak physical years, so but Ijust remember, you know I'd had
a great preparation, we werereally confident about the 100.
And you know we were there torace and win.
Like I just I remember going,you know I'm here and it was a.
(22:22):
Really, if you watch the replayof that race, it was a really
close field and I just rememberlike coming off the wall and
just nailing the turn and justfeeling like I was invincible
for you know, probably for 40metres off that wall, like the
last 10 metres, like there's notomorrow, and just feeling like
(22:43):
I was, yeah, I was just chargingthrough the water basically,
and I kind of did like I wasn'tout.
In hindsight, yeah, I probablywould have gone out a bit
quicker if I had my time again.
But ultimately for that race Ijust kind of was mid-pack at the
turn and then just kind of cameoff the wall.
(23:06):
I was a bit long on the touch,which a lot of people remind me
of when they see it, butstretched my fingers and got
into the wall basically.
But you know, another one ofthose cases where it was a close
finish and I was on the rightside of it, you know, and when
you look back across a careerthat spans probably, you know,
(23:26):
10, 11 years on the Australianteam, I had my fair share of
both sides of it.
I think I got touched out by0.01 at the Melbourne
Commonwealth Games in 2006.
And you know, between Beijingand Rome.
I probably got two touches byless than a tenth of a second
each.
So it kind of across the grandscheme of things.
(23:46):
You probably win some and youlose some, but it's nice when
you're on the winning side of itand to that point I'd probably
won a lot of minor medals,silver medals, bronze medals.
So that was really the firsttime we'd won a relay at World
Champs prior to that, but thatwas really the first time I got
to stand on the top step andhave the anthem played in your
(24:07):
honour and that side of it isreally special.
And I think that part ofbreaking the world record you
know at the time and still tothis day, being being the winner
was the most important thing.
You know we we're competitiveand to be the best in the world.
But you know now that I havekids and explaining to them that
(24:30):
once upon a time daddy had aworld record and that there was
a point in history where nohuman being had done 100 meters
of breaststroke quicker than me,and letting that sink into
their heads and and then getsome understanding of it, you
know that side of it's prettycool to see them understand.
You know more than just oh yeah, dad, I thought you liked
(24:51):
swimming to actually kind of gowell, you're actually pretty,
pretty good at that, so I thinkthat side of it's pretty special
as well.
Danielle Spurling (25:01):
Yeah, I mean you reflect back on it now.
I mean you were the fastestperson in the world.
That just blows my mind.
Brenton Rickard (25:09):
Yeah, and, as I said, like I still love the
fact that I won, like I'd muchrather be the world champion
than to have broken the worldrecord at some other event, but
to do them both at the one theone race and the race that
mattered.
You know, we always talked alot about keeping your best
performance for the race thatmattered most, which was the
(25:29):
final, and so to do it there inthe one the one race was was
really special.
Danielle Spurling (25:35):
And you were on the Australian team for such
a long time and had a number ofleadership roles sort of during
that time and you are obviouslynow in sports admin.
Is that one of the reasons thatyou went into that?
Brenton Rickard (25:49):
No, I wouldn't say I like I really enjoyed the
team leadership roles that I hadback on the team.
Like I didn't necessarily likeit was an honour, but it was
also one of those things thatnearly all of it was things I
was going to do either way, andI think there's a whole number
(26:12):
of members on the team thatdon't necessarily put their hand
up to be a team leader orcaptain, but play an important
role leadership role within theswimming group, um, and so all
that stuff was always stuff thatI felt like I was going to do.
Yeah, regardless, I'm happy tohappy to put my hand up and and
(26:34):
do that, but also I I reallyrecognise that there was a lot
of people, a lot of teammates ofmine, that played such
important roles that neveractually were formally
recognised for it.
The sports administration andespecially events side of things
that I do was just happenst,since, really, I moved from
(26:59):
Canberra to the Gold Coast endof 2009 after I won that world
title, and it justcoincidentally was when the Gold
Coast was bidding to host the2018 Commonwealth Games, and so
I ended up being a little bit ofan athlete ambassador for the
bid, just by chance that I washere at the time, which they of
(27:23):
course then won, and so throughthat process got to know a
little bit about, I guess, theCommonwealth Games bidding
process, the organisation, theorganising committee and so
whatever.
Two, three years later, when Igot back from the London
Olympics, I ran into one of thestaff members from the bid,
who's now a staff member at theorganising committee, and she
(27:46):
asked me to come in to speak tothe I think they had 24-odd
staff at that stage and kind ofasked me the question was raised
about whether I would keepswimming or and at that stage I
was like I think I will there'sa couple things I want to keep
trying with my career, but Iknow I'm not necessarily going
(28:08):
to swim another four years tothe next Olympics.
And then you know, what wouldyou like to do after swimming?
And I just coincidentally said,oh yeah, I'd actually think I'd
like to work at the Gold CoastCommonwealth Games.
It's here, it's something thatI know a little bit about now,
and I basically left that daywith a part-time job while I was
(28:31):
swimming.
So I think I was number 26 or 27to start at the organising
committee that had 1,200 staffby games time.
So I saw it go from this smalllittle group of us to a huge,
mammoth workforce to deliver abig and successful game.
(28:51):
So yeah, it was not somethingthat I necessarily thought a lot
about in the lead up to thatdate but yeah, I coincidentally
volunteered my time a little bitto be an ambassador and then
kind of fell in love with it.
So I've been doing doing eventsand sports admins since then.
Danielle Spurling (29:12):
And in 2022, Melbourne took over last minute
to host the FINA World ShortCourse Champs and you were
appointed executive director.
Can you share with us how youwere able to pull that together
in such a short amount of time?
Because it was what?
Six to eight months orsomething.
Brenton Rickard (29:29):
Yeah, it was short and it was a phenomenal
experience and I'm incrediblygrateful both for the
opportunity to do.
The role and the help I had orthe staff members I worked with
were incredible, but also Iwould not put myself or other
(29:50):
people through that again.
So basically it must have beenabout May 2022,.
I get a call saying, hey,australia might host World
Swimming Champs, short course,would you head it up?
And my initial response was no,because at the time I was
(30:14):
working for the CommonwealthGames Federation.
I was going to have to spend amonth in Birmingham for the
Birmingham Games in July, august22, and Eugenie Buckley, who
was CEO of Swimming Australia,basically twisted my arm a
little bit and said well, look,you can start now.
Get some staff in, get thingsrolling, go do your month over
(30:39):
there and when you come back,you can kind of have the last.
You know, get some staff in,get things rolling, go do your
month over there and when youcome back, you can kind of have
the last whatever four months toevent time, which, yeah, sounds
good.
But yeah, it's not that simple,especially when you're
executive director.
You kind of I was, you know, upin the morning at 5 o'clock, uk
time doing meetings withAustralia, to then go do 14, 16
(31:00):
hour days at the games, to go tobed at midnight.
So, um it was.
It was pretty taxing anddemanding, um, but I am
phenomenally proud of the eventwe put on in the time frame and
for me, a big part of it waswith the budget we had.
You know, we had a significantamount of money, but in the
(31:25):
grand scheme of things, you know, significantly less than what
had been spent on events likethis in the past.
So you know, to give you a bitof an idea, I think Doha World
Champs, which was early 23 andhad all the disciplines sorry,
early this year, early 24.
And so that had all the aquaticdisciplines, just not pool
(31:48):
swimming.
But it had a budget about 25times larger than ours to do
eight disciplines compared toone.
So we didn't quite have thatthat level of of of cash.
But we also, you know we knew,australians love swimming.
We've got a, got a pool there,msac, that has hosted big events
(32:12):
.
Um, and as long as there wassome flexibility from FINA, now
World Aquatics, which there was,we can deliver a great event.
And we had a point ofdifference.
Like usually, world ShortCourse is December every even
year in a Northern hemispherecountry, which means it's winter
(32:37):
, it's's dark, it's cold, it'spotentially snowing outside, and
you can come to melbourne and,and although we copped some rain
the first couple days, we hadvery cold weather then.
Yeah, it was cold but the sun,the sun did come out for the
last, you know, three, four daysof the event and it was
beautiful, um, and we had 13world records in a week, which
(33:00):
is, um, pretty amazing, um, foran event that had a whatever
seven month lead in time.
So I know, you know, uh, ingridproud and jody hawkins and, um,
the swimming austral Australiaevents team that you know I
asked a lot of them and theydelivered.
(33:20):
But, yeah, I wouldn't becomfortable asking that much of
anyone again.
Having gone through it andknowing what was required to
deliver an event on that amountof time and with those budget
constraints, I wouldn't do thatagain on anyone.
Danielle Spurling (33:38):
Well.
From the outside, looking in,it looked very successful and it
was smooth running the wholeway and everything worked well
around msac in terms oflogistics, like parking and
getting into the venue andeverything.
Brenton Rickard (33:50):
So you must all be very proud with the way it
turned out yeah, yeah, and, and,yeah, as I said, um, yeah, and,
and I think also there's thatelement of the, the look of it.
You know the, the broadcastpictures that went around the
world, the, the little bits ofaustralian that we did that.
You know the indigenous designof the logo and on the medals,
(34:12):
the use of the brighton beachboxes to walk out to receive
their medals, like they're allthings that I I feel not
necessarily uniquely australian,but something that we made the
effort to bring to the tablethat you know, sometimes a
swimming champs can be a pool ina big dark box and that's what
(34:34):
it is, whereas, you know, msacis is semi-enosed, so we had the
sun setting in the west and thebeautiful summer light and all
these things that we kind ofleaned into to make it something
a bit different than the normal.
So, yeah, I'm incredibly proudof all that.
And what are you working on atthe moment, if you're allowed to
tell us, I'm back working forthe Commonwealth Games
(34:56):
Federation, so it's been a bigperiod for them, obviously, with
everything that happened inVictoria last year, but we're
working hard to hopefully find ahost for 26.
And so I know there's been afair bit in the media about that
, but we continue to work hardto find a solution because we're
(35:20):
all very firm believers that ithas an important place on the
sporting calendar.
It has an important place inthe hearts of Australians and
members of the Commonwealth.
So, yeah, trying to find asolution that works for 26 and
moving forward for 2030 andbeyond.
Danielle Spurling (35:39):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Now, in 2020,.
You had one of the biggestchallenges in your life, and
that was being falsely accusedof doping, and I wanted to touch
on this from a mental healthperspective and find out how you
worked your way through that.
Brenton Rickard (35:55):
Slowly and hardly.
So it was obviously it's.
It's a shattering experiencethat to go through um.
It's one of those ones that itcompletely comes from out of the
blue.
Nothing, nothing you can do,can prepare you for that moment
or um, and can prepare you forthat moment, and there's a real,
(36:27):
I guess natural tension betweenhow you feel and how you feel
others might perceive you onceit happens.
So from a mental healthstandpoint it was complicated
because one.
I got notified, I guess maybesix weeks before the world shut
down with COVID, which includedthe lab that needed to test my B
(36:48):
sample.
So you kind of go through theinitial process of understanding
what you're being accused of orwhat the, what the the
substance is and what the thelegal process is to try to prove
your innocence, um, and thenthere's some um I guess, the
(37:09):
technical side of things aboutgetting your b sample tested, um
and and through it all.
In my case I had the real guiltand doubt about.
You know, we won a bronze medalin the medley relay at the end
of that week after the 200brushstroke, which is when the
test happened.
So you know, potentially beingresponsible for myself and five
(37:33):
other gentlemen losing a bronzemedal is, is probably that the
hardest weight to bear, um, andthere is no yeah, negotiating or
deal making or any of thosethings.
It's.
It's not not a question ofbrent and you're getting
(37:54):
punished, it's it's the teamgets disqualified.
So that part of it was probablythe hardest part From a mental
health point of view.
There's probably a few thingsthat I didn't realise were
taking as significant a toll onme as they were.
One of them was that you knowonly months earlier, um, one of
(38:21):
them was that, you know, onlymonths earlier, shana jack's
confidentiality got broken andand I had a real fear of me
waking up one day and findingout that mine had been broken
and that it would be a story.
So that feeling of potential,uh disaster was, um, was quite
real, and it's one of thosethings that you know week after
(38:45):
week, month after month.
It really takes a toll on you,it really adds up and with that
then comes I guess the otherthing that took a real toll on
me was, you know, keeping mycircle quite tight in terms of
who I told, and so for a largepart of it I hadn't even spoken
to the relay boys One and, Iguess, other close friends that
(39:13):
I didn't tell and part of it was, you know, there was that hope
that you know the beast templecomes back negative.
You've got no, no case toanswer.
You can put it all behind you.
It's almost a feeling of beingfraudulent that you would speak
to people that you hadn't toldand they'd be like oh, how are
you going?
Oh yeah, things are great, youknow, and that not being able to
(39:39):
be your true self was reallyquite taxing.
But at the same time youcouldn't just I wouldn't have
felt comfortable going aroundand telling everyone either,
because you do kind of hope thatyou get a resolution.
So, and I guess from a from amental health standpoint you
(40:01):
know I'm Ollie, was was threemonths old when I got told, so
you kind of have a young childand that has its challenges.
Covid's happening, so you knowEmily's home 24 7.
I work from home.
So there was a a wholecombination of factors that made
it, combination of factors thatmade it challenging.
(40:28):
And then there's the fact thatI work in sport and my
professional reputation willprobably be ruined um by this
all as well, and that I may not.
You know the the day I got toldI basically this at that time
was doing multiple part-timecontracts and I had to resign
two of them those days because Icouldn't perform the role,
because I'd be workingface-to-face with athletes,
(40:50):
which you can't really do whenyou're under investigation for
doping violations.
So, yeah, so there's a wholerange of factors and, you know,
the stoic athlete in me kind ofgoes oh yeah, I'm looking after
myself, I'm doing the and andthere was that real realization,
(41:11):
probably after a few months ofactually no, I'm, I'm, I'm
barely hanging on here.
I really need some professionalhelp, um, which I, which I
sought and got, and you know,you combine that with you know,
the, the love and care thatbetween my wife and my family
and and and the friends thatknew gave me kind of gets you
(41:35):
through.
Um, but it's still.
It's still a huge challenge andyou know, I still remember that
day that I basically spent anhour and a half calling each of
the guys and explaining thesituation to and and how hard
that was and and and I guess the.
You kind of have the flip sideof that, that when I was finally
(41:56):
told that the case was beingdropped after, you know, 19
months and and some of thosethings and and the emotions that
come up with that, that there's.
There's naturally an anger ofhaving to endure such a thing
just to to know what you'vealways known, that you know you
didn't do anything wrong, youweren't guilty, you, you didn't
(42:19):
cheat um.
There's all those things andyou know I've talked a little
bit about in in recent timesthat I probably then spent the
first, you know, 18 months, twoyears after being, after the
case being dropped, you know,trying to reclaim what was taken
from me, which is is not a nota healthy way to live either,
(42:42):
like um.
You know, the, the worldswimming champs opportunity.
I think I would have jumped atthat either way, but I think my
mentality was well, this isgreat.
You know, someone, you know thiscase tried to take swimming
from me.
I, I want to take it back and Iwant to go and and work in the,
(43:03):
the um, in the industry again,in the sport again, so which,
once again, I don't think.
I think I would have doneeither way, but it's that
mentality of no, this is a greatopportunity.
I want to make the most of this, you know.
I want to be able to put on agreat swimming event and make it
not about me and my I guess, mybaggage from that period and
(43:27):
make it more about theopportunity and producing
something great, which, onceagain, I think we did.
So there's some of those thingsthat I've kind of become aware
of and now just kind of goinglook, as much as I hate it, this
, this doping saga, is part ofmy story.
It's part of my history.
Nothing I can do will erasethat.
(43:50):
All I can do now is just try tolive the best I can, moving
forward.
That it's there.
It happened and, yeah, I gotthrough it.
You know we ultimately got theoutcome that I feel like I
deserved and yeah, hopefully,yeah, I can just live the best
life I can from that pointonwards.
Danielle Spurling (44:10):
Well, I think those 2022 champs came along
right at exactly the right timefor you, because it sort of
probably helped you.
I'm putting words in your mouth, but a bit of closure and sort
of a full circle, and then youprobably felt like that was such
a success.
You could then move on yeah,yeah, absolutely it was.
Brenton Rickard (44:29):
It was one of those things that there was such
a cathartic effect of being ata pool and being happy and proud
and and that's really somethingthat I felt for a long time I
wasn't sure I'd ever be able todo to walk into, you know, an
Olympic trials and just tospectate and actually feel okay
(44:51):
to be there or or to dive into apool and just be happy to be in
the water again.
So there was certainly acathartic and closure effect of
of that that world champs and Ilet you go.
Danielle Spurling (45:04):
I wanted to get your perspective on the form
strokes that the Aussies slamin Paris.
So, aside from Kayleigh andZach, we were sort of a little
down on the table in a lot ofour form races and I wondered
what your perspective was andwhat you think we need to do in
Australia to change that beforeBrisbane.
Brenton Rickard (45:23):
Yeah, it's an interesting question and I can't
say I well, I probably noticedwhat you're talking about, but I
can't say I've got any realgreat solutions.
I'm probably not close enoughto the sport to do that.
And it's one of those ones thatyou kind of see and you go.
There's clearly parts that areworking, like, like you say,
(45:45):
kaylee was once again out ofthis amazing good yeah, zach
zach was was excellent, that 200brushstroke and and I I think I
got to give some credit to matttemple as well in the hundred
fly and and and emma, but butthere were some events that you
just kind of like.
You know, how are we going toget you know, some of these
(46:07):
events were times people wereswimming yeah, 15, 20 years ago,
and that the world of swimmingcontinues to march forward and
we've got to be part of thatprogression as well.
So how do we find the rightathletes and get them the right
training to progress?
And, yeah, as I said, I don'treally have the answers.
(46:31):
The one thing I'm a bigbeliever in is that swimming
training should be, you know,horses for courses, for lack of
a better phrase that.
You know, training forbreaststroke isn't necessarily
the same as training for forfreestyle, you know, even if the
distance is the same and, and Ithink, even to like, we
(46:52):
obviously did a bit of work,men's breaststroke and women's
backstroke at quite similartimes.
So at different, differentpoints through my career, we,
you know, men's men'sbreaststroke and women's
backstrokers would would kind oftrain together, but even then
the the physiology differencebetween the strokes is quite
pronounced.
So so you, while you swimsimilar times and therefore you
(47:14):
might be able to do certainthings on similar time time
basis, it doesn't alwaysnecessarily reflect the, the
strokes.
So I think I think thatcontinued development of
personalized training orpersonalized stroke training is
really important.
I think the other part is um,you know, it's probably me with
(47:35):
my breaststroke hat is, you know, form strokes, breaststroke and
butterfly in particular.
They're incredibly technical,like if, if your rhythm's not
quite right, it can gopear-shaped very quickly, and so
that constant need fortechnical work and to be
technically on point, you know,on your good days, but probably
(47:57):
even more so on your on your baddays, if you can swim well when
you're not feeling great oryou're not quite quite quite
there, that's going to lead toalways being able to swim fast
or swim well when it matters.
So to me that's probably theother part, just that that need
for, I guess, specializedtraining for those strokes and
and that constant technical,technical eye for those form
(48:21):
strokes as well yeah, well,maybe mel marshall coming to the
Gold Coast might be, becauseshe's obviously worked with Adam
Peaty, so maybe that will be aninjection for our form strokes.
Yeah, he's hoping yeahabsolutely.
Danielle Spurling (48:35):
And one last thing.
I don't know whether you cananswer this, but I know
obviously you're working withCommonwealth Games.
I was speaking to MoeshaJohnson yesterday and she
mentioned that there's no openwater at the Commonwealth Games.
I was speaking to MoeshaJohnson yesterday and she
mentioned that there's no openwater at the Commonwealth Games.
Brenton Rickard (48:48):
No, there's only.
I don't think they've ever hadopen water at the Commonwealth
Games.
It's probably a number offactors that I guess gets
reviewed when events are putforward, and part of it is the
costs and challenges of puttingon the event.
Part of it can be depth offield and I know, having spoken
(49:12):
to the World Aquatic guysrecently, that they're actually
the quality and depth of fieldacross the world and I guess
Commonwealth Nations has greatlyimproved the last few years and
so you know you probably look10, 12 years ago and it would be
, you know, your australia's,your great, your british
(49:32):
territories and your canada andnew zealand would be the main
countries doing it, whereas nowthere's probably more spread of
countries participating.
So the case is probablystronger than ever.
But to this point, yeah, but thecost of, I guess all the
requirements for an open waterswim and um and the challenges
(49:53):
with, with athletesparticipating from the full
range of commonwealth countries,has probably been part of the
story.
So, um, yeah, we'll.
We'll see whether it, uh, itcomes up for consideration.
2026 is about finding, findinga host and and and running a
games.
But I think, moving forward,what a games might look like is
(50:14):
is definitely um going to berevitalized and and revisited
yeah, no, that's that soundsgood.
Danielle Spurling (50:22):
Well, thank you so, brenton, for joining us
on the podcast today.
I really appreciate hearing allabout your swimming journey and
your candour and best wishesfor finding a venue for those
Commonwealth Games.
Brenton Rickard (50:35):
Thank you very much.
Danielle Spurling (50:37):
Okay, bye, bye, take care, bye Till next
time.
Happy swimming and bye for now.
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