BOB LAZAR: The Man Who Sparked a Movement- A Special Presentation!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
In nineteen eighty nine, a man called Bob Lazarre walked
into a Las Vegas TV station and gave a remarkable interview.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
He said that he'd.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Worked out in the Nevada Desert at a top secret
facility known as Area fifty one. He said he worked
in a highly classified project reverse engineering recovered alien spacecraft.
His story was a worldwide sensation, and Area fifty one

(00:45):
became a household name synonymous with UFOs secret projects and
little Green men. And yet neither the US government nor
its military have ever denied his claims, and they still
don't officially confirm that Area fifty one exists, despite satellite

(01:05):
photos proving it does. Many dismiss Boblizar as a fantasist,
and yet others see him as a whistleblower exposing a
government cover up of UFOs an alien contact.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
I am convinced, based on my research and the individuals
whom I've had contact in the US intelligence community, that
the US government does indeed have a craft that meet
the description of many of the UFO reports. Personal opinion,

(02:01):
based on comments I've gotten from the Deputy Director for
Science and Technology at CIA, would seem to indicate that
Bob was perhaps an unwitting participant in a program designed
to introduce someone with a technical background to some elements

(02:23):
of the UFO research projects going on out of the
test site.

Speaker 4 (02:33):
I have no doubt that Lazare actually was in a
place where top secret investigations were going on. I'm not
sure about all the details that have emerged from his account,
but he certainly gives me the impression that he was

(02:54):
actually there.

Speaker 5 (02:56):
Do I believe Bob bizaar my At That is yes,
And he's going on eight years that I've known him.
His story has never changed. He wasn't in it for
the publicity. He wasn't surely wasn't it for the money.
He lost everything he had. I believe he's since totally sincere.

Speaker 6 (03:19):
As far as I can tell. He's a bright guy
who tells a great tale, and who's told it often
to people who have not checked on him, who accept
the notion that well, the government wiped his slate clean.

Speaker 7 (03:34):
Basically, I think he had an experience. I think he
saw some things that shopped him, was subject to some
conditions and experiences that were very unnerving to him and
very profound.

Speaker 8 (03:54):
He said, you would love to see what's out there,
because it's like beyond science ficure, he said, And I
wish I could talk to you about it, but I can't.
And that's as close as he ever got to tell
me anything that happened out there.

Speaker 9 (04:07):
You'll find many people who have seen these disks. Question
is where do they come from? Biblasar maybe one of
the few people who can tell us that they're from
somewhere else.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
I've no doubt that there's a relatively small number of
people within the intelligence, military intelligence, and scientific and technical
intelligence community who are aware of what's going on, and
an even smaller group who are actually organizing top secret
research into this phenomenon.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
There's been an operating airbase out at the location, known
as Area fifty one, since the nineteen fifties, when it
was home to the CIA's top secret SR seventy one
Blackbird spyplane. Then in the nineteen seventies it became the
test flight center for the F one to seventeen stealth

(05:19):
fighter and the B two stealth bomber.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
It's fairly public knowledge that we have a super secret
facility in the mountains and northern Nevada, referred to as
Groom Lake Area fifty one of the Nellis Air Force
based test range. It has also been referred to as
as Dreamland. This is an area that has been known

(05:48):
but officially denied for many decades. All of our super
secret aircraft have been developed in test flone out in
this particular area. So it only makes sense that if
you have something as sophisticated as a flying saucer and

(06:09):
the related technology to that, that would certainly be one
of the prime locations you'd want to go.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
What you see as an ordinary looking Air Force base.

Speaker 10 (06:23):
It's nothing to write home about, but because the government
won't talk about it, everyone wants.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
To see it.

Speaker 10 (06:30):
Military has never said there are no UFOs, it's never
directly denied any of the Area fifty one stories. It
would have been so simple when these claims came out,
these Papoose Lake claims, for the military to simply say, look,
we have nothing there. They could take a few reporters
to this area and show them nothing there.

Speaker 11 (06:47):
The military hasn't done it.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
The military is stonewall.

Speaker 10 (06:50):
It has remained silent, and that's the most damning thing
that they can do.

Speaker 12 (06:56):
Area fifty one to this day is that is to
say the Air Force does not admit that it exists.
This status has been maintained very carefully, particularly in the
last few years. The puzzle is that the base has
clearly been very active for quite a while, and you
can see that they're about seven hundred to one thousand

(07:17):
people traveling from Las Vegas every day. So essentially the
balk of what has gone on there in the last
ten years has not emerged from the black.

Speaker 5 (07:29):
This airplane was, the program was terminated, the airplanes were
put in mothballs for twenty years before they admitted the
existence of the aircraft. There's programs that they're working on
today that are fifty years ahead of anything that you
and I can even conceive of, and that we may
never then, that may never see the light of day.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Would you set it's America's most top secret military.

Speaker 5 (07:56):
Base as far as as far as an operational test facility.
Is probably the most secret test facility in the free world.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yes, so there is.

Speaker 6 (08:05):
No question that the facility is there, as the government
has said very little in the past about it. Now,
the real question, I suppose, is are there any flying
saucers out there?

Speaker 1 (08:23):
No one had associated flying saurces with Area fifty one
until Bob Lazar's interview hit television screens around the world.
He said that he worked at an underground facility called
S four. The top secret project was code named Galileo.

Speaker 11 (08:44):
They would call it a specific time.

Speaker 13 (08:45):
For instance, the operator would say, mister Lazar, it's now
four fifteen am. We expect you to be at McCarran
Airport at four forty five.

Speaker 11 (08:57):
Your plane will be leaving at such and such time.

Speaker 13 (09:01):
Drive there, check in board the plane, and the plane
would fly out to Groom Lake. It would land there,
I'd get off the plane and wait, and there would
be a bus to take me and whoever else is
going to s for Patpoose Lake, which is about fifteen
miles south of there, and then I would check in

(09:21):
at S four.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
Tell me about how you felt on your very first
trip out.

Speaker 13 (09:30):
The first trip out there, it was actually very exciting
because it seems so cloak and dagger to me, especially
after I got in the bus with the blacked out windows.
I kind of thought that was neat. Drove out to
the site and then it was checked in guards walking
around with guns, and I was sure what I was
working on was going to be pretty fascinating.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
He says that within a few days of working out
at S four he was shown actual flying disc in
one of the hangers.

Speaker 13 (10:04):
When I was brought in by bus and for the
first time, one of the hanger doors, the one on
the end, was open. The bus drove up and we
stopped there, and clear as day and the hangar taking
up almost all the hanger was the disc looked like
something right out of a science fiction movie. And as

(10:31):
I walked in there, I thought, well, this is the
new advanced aircraft we've been working on, and this is
why people keep seeing flying saucers, because it's ours and
we've just been testing it and we're probably for all
these years.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
And what color and size was it?

Speaker 13 (10:48):
It was a dull, stainless steel pewter gray, very unimpressive
color wise, about fifty two point eight feet in diameter
and about sixteen feet high.

Speaker 14 (11:03):
So was it actually a recovered craft that you were
working on or was it one that scientists had built
as a mockup of a recover crow.

Speaker 13 (11:12):
Well, whether it was recovered, given or what, it was
not built as a mock up. It was an alien
craft built on another world. There was absolutely no doubt
about that.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
The Czar claims that he was one of only twenty
two people who had something called majestic clearance to work
on the craft itself.

Speaker 13 (11:36):
The whole aim of the project was to take these craft,
or the one in particular that I was working on,
and try and duplicated systems in the subsystems with earthly materials.
The work that I did basically entailed back engineering the

(11:57):
power and propulsion system, and I opted to start with
the power the reactor that ran the craft.

Speaker 9 (12:18):
I knew immediately if his credentials could be verified, if
even part of his story could be verified, it'd be
one tremendous expose.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
George Knapp was a long standing TV reporter. He'd heard
enough of the UFO rumors over the years to appreciate
how big a scoop this could be if Lazare was
telling the truth.

Speaker 9 (12:41):
He gave me information about his background, educational background, and
employment background. I started with his claim to have worked
at Los Alamos Lab. We went to Los Alamos and
got nothing even close to cooperation. They wouldn't respond.

Speaker 11 (12:58):
To our phone calls.

Speaker 9 (12:58):
They say, we have no information on Bob Blazaar, there's
nothing in the files. I said, are you sure now?

Speaker 11 (13:03):
No, nothing in the files.

Speaker 9 (13:04):
I showed him the phone book entry that Bob had
kept that said he was there. I showed him the
newspaper article that showed that he was there. Basically, Los
Alamos Lab tried to thwart me at every step. Were
completely uncooperative and trying to get information about Bob, and
I found that to be the case at every step
of the way, and trying to verify his background.

Speaker 15 (13:30):
Twelve pm.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
Former NASA mission specialist Bob Exler had heard about Area
fifty one and Groom Lake when he worked on the
Apollo and Space Shuttle projects. He was intrigued by Lazarre's
claims and started to investigate.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
I did a variety of research relative to Bob Lazar
actually met him. I obtained a copy of his what
they call it W two, which is one of the
irs documents associated with pay. His particular form indicated that
he worked for the US Department of Naval Intelligence. They

(14:13):
informed me that it was a genuine document, It was
not something that had been fabricated. There were a variety
of numbers, contract numbers, and so forth issued on the document,
which I was able to research again, finding that these
were highly classified numbers. In fact, Internal Revenue Service ran

(14:34):
into a brick wall when it came to trying to
track down the actual employer associated with the document, and
then again with the Social Security Administration, we found that
Bob Lazar's records had in fact been bleached clean. There
was nothing there in spite of the fact that the
document clearly indicated that Social Security taxes had been taken

(14:57):
out of his pay.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Not everyone whose research Bob Lazarre believes his claims. Stanton
Friedman is one of the most respected authors in the
UFO field today. He's a former nuclear physicist with top
secret clearance and has many friends and contacts in the
Black Project world.

Speaker 6 (15:33):
I've looked at considerable depth into Bob Lazarre's claims, both
about himself and about propulsion system because are fairly elaborate
claim I've talked to the schools that he claims to
have received degrees from. I've checked on his high school record.
I talked to Los Alamo's library was supposedly a scientist,
and so forth. I have come up totally empty. Now,

(15:57):
when a guy lies like that, you get very and
you know it has all the trimmings. His story of
a Walter Midti story. Somebody in his imagination was, you know, stronger, brighter,
faster than anybody else. I don't doubt that he did
some work at Los Almos and other places.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
He's clever.

Speaker 6 (16:20):
He drives a check powered car, fixes radiation detectors, so
he may have performed some service. But I can find
no reason to think that he worked out there on
a flying saucer.

Speaker 9 (16:34):
I mean, I had to wonder whether this guy was
making this stuff up. But then I see the phone book,
and I see the newspaper article, and I talked to
people who worked with Bob at the lab and who
said in fact that he did work on classified projects.
Yet no one can find any records of his background.

Speaker 13 (16:50):
The people that I worked with, colleagues, the people I
went to school with obviously knew I was there, and
people Los Alamos. I was friends with the people that
worked under me and alongside I mean there and you know,
cooperate what was going on. But you know, officially it's
very difficult to get information for the people in charge.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
To further prove his claims. Lazarre agreed to take a
polygraph test, which he passed.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
The thing that is interesting about polygraph is that if
you're embellishing, or if you don't completely believe what you're saying,
it is very, very easy to detect. All it really
will tell you is that the individual believes with one
hundred percent conviction that what he's reporting is exactly as

(17:38):
he recalls and as he believes it to be. And
that clearly was the case with Bob Lazarre. Now, could
his perception have been a bit askew, Yes, that's possible,
but he clearly wasn't lying.

Speaker 9 (17:51):
I think Bob is even open to the possibility that
perhaps he had been used in some sort of misinformation
or disinformation campaign.

Speaker 11 (17:59):
I mean, look at him.

Speaker 9 (18:00):
He has a pirate flag floating on his house. He
races jet cars, he likes fast women, he likes guns.
He's technically capable. So in that sense, he may be
perfect for this kind of a program. Technically capable, scientifically knowledgeable,
and yet completely discreditable at a moment's notice.

Speaker 11 (18:18):
If you want to do.

Speaker 9 (18:20):
Test public reaction to a story about Area fifty one
and then suddenly discredited afterwards, Bob may have been the
most qualified person in the country.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
Bazarre says that on one occasion he was escorted into
the flying disc that he saw in the hangar to
analyze its propulsion system.

Speaker 13 (18:51):
It was obviously made to be piloted by something smaller
than the average human, being very cramped in there.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
What were the size of these seats that were in there?

Speaker 11 (19:03):
The seats were very small.

Speaker 13 (19:04):
I'd say about one third to one fourth the size
of a normal human. See a lot of people, A
lot of people say, boy, it must have been exciting
to go on there, and I always say it wasn't.

Speaker 11 (19:17):
It was a very ominous feeling.

Speaker 13 (19:22):
I know it sounds silly, but it's so unearthly in there.

Speaker 14 (19:29):
You have spoken to someone who's actually seen a UFO
under a top pool in at Air fifty one.

Speaker 11 (19:34):
I have.

Speaker 9 (19:35):
I've spoken to several people who've seen UFOs or disc
shaped craft out there. There was a woman who was
a secretary for a major defense contractor at the Nevada
test site who worked on nuclear programs, who told me
that she had sat in on the conversations between military
and civilian contractors at which the roswell case had been discussed,

(19:56):
at which it had been discussed taking some roswell material
to Area fifty one. The level of secrecy during those
meetings was great. Afterward, they'd take the ribbons out of
the typewriter she was typing on. She was ready to
tell me about this, and I had this conversation with
her on the phone. The next day. After this conversation
takes place, she's visited by two men who say that

(20:16):
they work for the company she used to work for,
reminding her that she is still under a security oath.

Speaker 11 (20:22):
Told her, we know.

Speaker 9 (20:23):
That you do a lot of traveling back and forth,
a lot of long drives between Las Vegas and La
We'd hate for something to happen to you or your family.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
No interview.

Speaker 9 (20:32):
I mean it happened again and again and again, same scenario.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Lazare says that in addition to being shown inside the disc,
he actually saw it take off from the lake bed.

Speaker 13 (20:54):
I was brought into the hangar for one of the
short duration tests and the craft already outside on the
lake bed, and that was pretty much of a marvelous sights.
The huge thing, it's like seeing a house lift off
the ground. You can't imagine the energy involved.

Speaker 11 (21:11):
To do that.

Speaker 13 (21:18):
Because of the extremely high energy output and the fact
that the outside of the craft does is used as
a conductor that does ionize the air, and the crafts
do as a byproduct of this glow at night, much

(21:43):
like a fluorescent tube will light up, so you know,
bright strange jumping lights in the sky. That does explain that.

Speaker 14 (21:56):
Would you categorically say there is no way that that
humans could have built the craft.

Speaker 13 (22:02):
That you saw, Absolutely, I will categorically deny that. Well,
I don't know how exactly should I put that. I
guess I can just say it straight out. There is
no way that any government on this Earth could produce
that craft, period, and I defy anyone to argue at

(22:26):
that point.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
One of the big questions that's hung over this whole
story is whether Lazar saw a man made flying disc
and not an alien spacecraft.

Speaker 16 (22:45):
A lot of these crafts, which are being developed in
secrecy in the United States, are tested at night, and
one can imagine that seen through kind of half closed eyes,
something like an F one one seven stealth fighter or
B two bomber side on or front on would look
remarkably like say a flag saucer or UFO.

Speaker 12 (23:13):
You see an F one seventeen, or you see tascit blue,
or you see a B two, particularly if you see
it from some fairly unusual angle. You're going to have
a very hard time relating that to conventional aircraft. Some
of these things can look very strange indeed, so you know,

(23:38):
an unusual but decidedly terrestrial aircraft can certainly present the
appearance of a disc from many angles.

Speaker 16 (24:25):
I think for anyone who's been out into the Western
United States and seen the kind of place it is
and let their imaginations run riot a bit, it is
possible to imagine in these vast test areas technologies which
are highly exotic, highly revolutionary, and would change the way

(24:48):
we feel about science today. However, to say that that
is alien science derived from beyond this world, I think
is something which is just It is unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
It's too much to absorb.

Speaker 14 (25:14):
Do you think that some of the true certainly lies
out there in the middle of the Nevada desert at
Groom Lake.

Speaker 6 (25:23):
I would expect that some of the truth may very
well lie out in the desert near Groom Lake. It's
the right place for some of it to be. It's isolated,
it's under control, its high security. I don't think we've
yet scratched the surface on what's happening out there with
regard to flying saucers.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
According to the czar, the craft that they were secretly
testing out in the desert at night used an exotic
anti gravity propulsion system.

Speaker 13 (26:05):
The reactor itself was an incredibly advanced system. This was
an anti matter reactor. This is something we could only
dream of having, something to go out huge amounts of
power that rivals several nuclear power plants running a capacity.
What happens is a great gravity distortion is created and
you're essentially bending space towards the craft.

Speaker 11 (26:27):
The craft becomes part of that space, and then when.

Speaker 13 (26:29):
The reactors or when the gravity amplifiers are shut down,
the craft is essentially where it was focused. It's a
very difficult thing to grasp. It happens virtually instantaneously because
of the fact that gravity distorts time, and if you're
bending space and time along with it, when you wind

(26:50):
back up in that place, you're there between the ticks
of a clock.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
Looking at nighttime video films out in the test site area,
we've seen video of craft that were luminous that would
move across the sky as if it was skipping a
stone across water, or sort of a sewing machine effect.
What we see across the screen or a series of

(27:25):
lights of dashes of light as the object moves from
point A to point B. Therefore, we are seeing what
you might call a shadow effect of the propulsion mechanism
at work.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
Bob Bazarre is not the only person who's come forward
and claimed to have worked out at the base on
flying discs. Former US Marines test pilot Bill Uhaus worked
out at Groom Lake and other top secret locations forty years,
working for the Pentagon and civilian contractors on a variety

(28:05):
of highly classified projects, including he says, a flying disc
recovered from a crash in Kingman, Arizona, in May nineteen
fifty three. He said that he'd been cleared to do
this interview and to discuss certain information, but asked us
not to show his face.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
What we were actually working on out there.

Speaker 17 (28:30):
One of the things I worked on was flying this simulator.
It was designed in New Mexico by a separate staff
that built it in parallel with the actual craft that
they were head intended to fly. The purpose assimilator was
to trained Powas to fly this strange, strange working craft.

(29:01):
The simulator was a ten meter round uh this The
skin was made of boron uh, composite material, not unlike
uh that you see on the at point seventeen.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
How did you know how to build a simulation?

Speaker 17 (29:22):
They're essentially a warrant any plans and plans were generated
as we constructed it, and it was a it was
a process there that it took quite a while for
for us to even understand the concept way back in
the fifties.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Who House says that the zah did work at area
fifty one.

Speaker 17 (29:43):
I think Bob is saying exactly what he knows. And
I know a little bit about Bob uh from a
different standpoint than a lot of the people knowing what's
been written about him. But Bob Bazaar is not lying

(30:03):
as far as uh, his place and position and the
activity he was involved with at the time, although some
of it, you know, he couldn't recall. But there's a
lot of reasons why Bob was hired. Number one. You know,

(30:26):
here's the thing that guy like Bob sent him out there.
You know, somebody said, you know, aliens, blah blah blah
blah blah. You know, all of a sudden, you're thinking
about nine alien crafts. You know, they may have not
been nine alien craft more.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Do you believe that the government has recovered alien spacecraft.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
I have no doubts whatsoever that the United States has
actually recovered a number of extraterrestrial vehicles.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
And what do they do with them.

Speaker 4 (30:58):
I think that since nineteen forty seven there have been
efforts to try and duplicate.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
The technology what is referred to as reverse.

Speaker 4 (31:11):
Engineering, and I don't know how far they've got, but
some reports indicate that we've actually been test flying within
a limited area actual alien vehicles or terrestrial vehicles United
States vehicles which have been made using alien technology.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
Could these not just be military aircraft?

Speaker 4 (31:37):
Well, I think it's quite possible some of them are
military aircraft. I've had from very reliable sources, including a
leading specialist on unmanned aerial vehicles, that we have developed
some disc shaped platforms for aerial reconnaissance, some quite small,
maybe some larger, which are being utilized by the Americans

(31:59):
and have been built by the Americans.

Speaker 17 (32:01):
That's sixth three eight night or double I was like
a start when I went on a left act innovation.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
I'd also have a crossing downfield. Was it a hard
secret to keep?

Speaker 13 (32:10):
It was a virtually impossible secret to keep, But I
did play by the rules, and it caused a lot
of problems. It caused problems in my family life. I mean,
imagine being married at the time, and you know, you
get a call, you know, perhaps at night, and a

(32:32):
strange voice on the phone.

Speaker 11 (32:33):
Okay, you disappear.

Speaker 13 (32:34):
You can't tell your wife who it was on the phone,
where you're going, and you come back, you know, sometime
early in the morning.

Speaker 11 (32:41):
What is she going to think?

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Unaware of where he was going every day and being
absent from home for long periods, Bob's relationship with his
wife had deteriorated badly. This was seen as a potential
security risk.

Speaker 13 (32:59):
Out of the bay, my wife was having an affair
with someone else, so they viewed that as a potential
emotional instability, and they no longer wanted me coming out
until things were cleared up, either for it, you know,
it to break up or heal or whatever. But they

(33:20):
that's what they put the brakes on everything there.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
And did they then stop calling you? Did you get
very frustrated about that?

Speaker 11 (33:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 13 (33:26):
Then I began to wonder, boy, now they've given me
all this information and everything's coming to a dead stop.

Speaker 11 (33:30):
What's going on?

Speaker 13 (33:32):
And that's when I began to be concerned. And then
that's when I began said, you know, it's now it's
becoming important that some other people know what was going on.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
As the silence turned from days to weeks, he finally
decided to tell his wife and closest friends just what
he'd been doing.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
Were you were aware of the security implications.

Speaker 13 (33:59):
I was quite aware of what could happen, But I
was also aware that these guys would go to any
extent to keep their secret and certainly not have someone
that was on the inside running around. And I didn't
think it was beyond them at all to make me disappear,
whether I mean, who knows. I know it sounds more
like a movie, but I didn't think it was beyond

(34:19):
their capability to kill me just to stop the word
from getting out.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
Bob knew the test flight schedule for the discs and
took his wife, his best friend Jean Huff, and another friend,
John Leah, out to the desert near the base on
a Wednesday night in March nineteen eighty nine.

Speaker 11 (34:49):
Huh, I started coming in too.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
Half a week, and I think took up stuff.

Speaker 11 (34:57):
If it's like overhead, like up in the air, had
three hundred miles shoes, so it could.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Be anywhere in that.

Speaker 11 (35:04):
Yeah. Yeah, well that sounds military to me. Ahead a
little yeah, yeah, I bet you that's.

Speaker 15 (35:13):
That's what this is.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
We got.

Speaker 11 (35:15):
Oh you see that?

Speaker 15 (35:16):
Yeah? What was that?

Speaker 2 (35:18):
Did you see a light just come on over there?

Speaker 11 (35:20):
Just I was looking right at it.

Speaker 15 (35:22):
Let me check it out.

Speaker 11 (35:26):
Now, there's a steady line, a steady light you just
came on?

Speaker 15 (35:30):
No, this one right over the range here.

Speaker 11 (35:32):
It wasn't there.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
And then I was looking right there and blinking on
very bright. That's brighter than a star.

Speaker 11 (35:37):
Huh.

Speaker 15 (35:43):
It doesn't look like landing lights. Whatever that head?

Speaker 11 (35:51):
Huh?

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Interesting white light?

Speaker 15 (35:59):
Yeah, yeah, he's coming at us.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
What did you see when you were out there?

Speaker 13 (36:04):
Shortly after the flight time that I had recorded? Uh,
white light came up, well, not a white light.

Speaker 11 (36:12):
It was actually more of an amber light.

Speaker 13 (36:15):
Came up off the ground and hovered and then began
doing radical step maneuvers and darting from one side of
the sky to the other, doing some impossible flight characteristics.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Do you think what you saw of that desert that
night was an alien spicecraft?

Speaker 18 (36:33):
Could I identify it as an e T craft without
Bob's health. No, it would have been a and you know,
like I said, an elliptically shaped saucer doing you know,
just doing moves that we're not capable of. But I
could not say that. No, this wasn't some advanced DURST technology.

Speaker 11 (36:56):
Whatever that heading is. That was be a UFO.

Speaker 15 (37:00):
It's not blinking, it's not conforming to any sort of
FAA lighting regulations. And there you're looking at it. That's
like a typical UFO. If it was red, it would
be real typical, because that's what most people report. There's
red lights like that that are solid colored. I don't
think that's landing wise because it's curved already and we're
still looking at it. Looks like he's curving back and

(37:21):
he comes. That is a typical military UFO. There you go.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
This small group went back to see two more Wednesday
night flight tests, but on the third trip they were spotted, caught,
and arrested. What was taken to Indian Springs Air Force
BACE and interrogated.

Speaker 13 (37:56):
That interrogation was about as intense as you can possibly get,
right stopping short of shooting.

Speaker 11 (38:01):
Me in the head.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
What were they saying to you?

Speaker 13 (38:05):
Everything up to and including that you know, we can
absolutely kill you right now and there'd.

Speaker 11 (38:09):
Be no one looking for you at all. And I
mean they everything.

Speaker 13 (38:14):
They threatened my wife, They threatened to kill my wife.
They'd stopped, they said they'd stop, but nothing they said.

Speaker 11 (38:20):
They thought they made that very clear.

Speaker 13 (38:22):
They couldn't believe that I had taken anyone out there
to show them that much less left with information like
the flight test data, and wanted to know what else
I had said, who else I had told specifically? They
were crazy, They really were.

Speaker 11 (38:38):
They were completely out of control.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
After this interrogation at Indian Springs Air Force Base, Bob
says that he was put under constant surveillance by security personnel.
His phones were tapped, his movements were monitored, and he
often found his car followed by military helicopters. Worried about
what might happen to him, and angry about how he

(39:08):
was being treated, he decided to hit back and approached
a local TV station about an interview.

Speaker 13 (39:17):
I thought, if I did an interview in silhouette, it
would be kind of pushing back a bit, where to
say you guys, stop, and not saying too much, but
just saying enough just to let him know that they
am pushing back a bit and then lay off or
you know it's going to get worse. It was really
the only thing I could do.

Speaker 14 (39:39):
Did you get any calls of the military or from
former workers to say, what the hell are you doing?

Speaker 13 (39:46):
Right after the interview aired, Dennis Marianni, who was my supervisor,
called and all he said was do you have any
idea what we're going to do to you now?

Speaker 11 (39:53):
And that was the end of the phone call.

Speaker 13 (39:57):
That was the last, well or really second, the last
communication I had with him. And you know, then I decided, well,
you know, that's it, and really just said everything that
I had seen and done and just wanted to divorce
the entire situation.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
Even now, more than twenty years later, the jury is
still out on Bob Lazare and his claims about his
workout at Groom Lake. It's a fascinating story which he's
stuck to for more than two decades, and although many
dismiss it as pure fantasy, the fact is that some
of his credentials did check out. In addition, his former

(41:15):
employers and even the tax authorities were caught covering up
and refusing to release information on him. Why would they
do that unless there was something to hide. One thing
is for certain. If he is telling the truth, then
we're all in for some shocking revelations in the decades

(41:37):
to come.

Speaker 13 (41:40):
Here's the government ever going to say, you know, we've
been lying to you for forty or fifty years. Now
a chance, I believe the stage an event that is
much more.

Speaker 11 (41:50):
Like what they do.

Speaker 13 (41:52):
They'll take a big cargo plane or see one thirty
or something, take one of the old discs that they've
you know, analyzed time and time again. I'm finished with,
go up to a high altitude and push it out
the back, and then go fly away and say, oh, look,
the first disc is crashed. You know, here's a flying sauce.
I mean, I can almost guarantee you that's that's the
route they'd take.

Speaker 11 (42:12):
Must be importing, and.

Speaker 9 (42:16):
Certainly there are a lot of questions about Bob's background
that have not been satisfactorily answered. But there's too much
that Bob knows. I think it couldn't be explained any
other way. He knows about the layout of the base,
he knew about people who were involved in security checks.
He knew when and where the test flights were going
to take place. Because he took people out there three
weeks in a row, and they videotaped the tests. How

(42:37):
did he know this stuff? If he, in fact did
not have some kind of inside knowledge, do.

Speaker 14 (42:42):
You think he'd make a good conduit of information, I mean,
essentially a passy.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yes, I do.

Speaker 4 (42:49):
I think it's quite likely that Laza was set up,
perhaps to knowing that he would give out this information.

Speaker 12 (43:00):
It's likely to be a very long time before we
discover what is actually being done out of groom light.
Now they seem to wait anything from fifteen to twenty
years or more after something has been retired before they
acknowledge its existence.

Speaker 5 (43:22):
This airplane was built designed almost forty years ago. Forty
years before that, the hottest thing flying was a sawirsky
P thirty five. For the years before that it was
a balloon. So the technology has not stood still. So
it's a very good possibility that we are looking at

(43:42):
man made transportation for the twenty first century.

Speaker 9 (43:46):
It's been so hopelessly polluted that I'm not sure we
will ever get to the bottom of this story.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
And that's sad.

Speaker 9 (43:53):
I suspect that whatever was out there, discs alien or not,
had now been moved to some other location, and we
may never find them again.

Speaker 7 (44:03):
There might have been reason forty years ago to believe
that people couldn't handle the idea of alien dissertation.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
I don't think that's true anymore. I think we're far
more sophisticated now.

Speaker 14 (44:18):
Do you regret having screwed up as floor and taking
your friends there and blowing your security cover because you
could still be working on UFOs today?

Speaker 11 (44:31):
Yes and no.

Speaker 13 (44:32):
Yes, At times, I'd like to be able to go
back in time and played along with the game and
not have done anything, and perhaps to this day still
be working on them, because I did feel privileged, and
it was fascinating work once you can get around all
the oppressive military security, and you know, maybe we would

(44:58):
have stumbled on something and and yeah, I would have
been fascinating. I thought UFOs were pretty much a figment
of someone's imagination. I didn't believe in him. I wasn't
interested in him. Of course, I'm not even interested in
him now, but I certainly do believe in him now.

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