Lue Elizondo's Attorney Ivan Hannel: "SCIF FLU" & Rep Luna On JRE- Karl Nell & The Apocalypse?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
All right, welcome back to Total Disclosure. Got a special
episode for everyone tonight. We are live and I usually
I'm gonna get back into this, you know, doing a
live show per week, making sure that that we're interacting
and engaging with the community more consistently. I was a

(00:45):
little bit delayed today. I do want to apologize for that.
But guys, we've got a great show for you today.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
I want to say.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Welcome everyone to Tell the Disclosure. As I said before,
today on the show, we'll be having an electrified discussion.
We're diving deep into the enigmatic world of UFOs and
government disclosure with none other than Ivan handle Esquire, a
powerhouse attorney who's becoming a more prominent voice and figure
in the UAP conversation. As the legal counsel for Lou Elizondo,

(01:18):
a former head of a TIP. Whether you like it
or not, Lou has become a leading voice in UFO disclosure.
Ivan is a front row seat to some of the
most groundbreaking developments in this space, from navigating congressional briefings
to protecting whistle blowers and facilitating.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
The avergence of new insiders.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Ivan's journey, Glenn's law secrecy and the Search for Truth. Tonight,
we'll explore Ivan's experiences, unpack the legal and poelitical complexities
of UFO disclosure, and maybe get a glimpse at what's
coming next.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Kick back, Gradicola and buckle up.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
It's going to be Oh why ride.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
All right, mister Hanl. Good to have you on the show,
my friend. Thanks. I sorry, I'm the one who was delayed,
and I apologize that so it was not your delay,
it was mine. But keeping everything honest. But thanks very much,
and you know, happy to chat with you. I hope.
I have a tendency to look at the screen rather
than the camera, so I apologize. I'll do my best.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
You're fine, man, You're fine. I'm sure you've been in
far more tense environment.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
This is you and I have.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
A conversation as as as friends and you know, Jimmy
I think Jimmy Church has a really good saying.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
We should always.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Steal it from him. But uh, you know where the
conversation starts. It starts where it ends, it ends, but
will end as friends.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Oh that's a beautiful one. That's a great I was
on I think I was with Jimmy Church once on
the radio. Sho show you to you seemed like a
very nice person.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah he is.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
He's pretty intense. He's really intense. Actually, oh interesting, Okay,
that's interesting. I thought I did find him to be
very pro disclosure, which you know, I certainly respect. And yeah,
that was that was a nice time. Yeah, so I listen.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
I've been watching your presence in the community grow, so
I've been very eager to chat with you, and you know,
I really before we get started, obviously, guys made suret
and like share subscribe. The first thirty minutes of the
show is streamed on x but after that I caught
it off. You got to come over to YouTube. But again,

(03:41):
I want to say thank you to mister Hannele for
being here. We're gonna have some really really fun As always,
my fellow truth seekers and assets, make sure you whisk
and roll in that like button at a low simmer
and share the show with your friends. The Grays, fuck
your family, we don't care. Subscribe as well, ring the
bell so you don't miss any future uploads or live

(04:02):
shows like the.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
One we're watching right now.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Okay, Bill's paid one last time.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Thank you, Ivan.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
Let's get let's get started. Brother, the your seasoned attorney.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
UFOs and UAPs aren't exactly standard legal fare. What was
the defining moment when you first got pulled into this
world of ufology and how did your relationship with buel
Zondo begin?

Speaker 2 (04:31):
You know, there wasn't really a moment in particular. I
think I just became interested in it like anybody else.
You know, I go back to the sort of seven
old twenty seventeen New York Times article and you know,
began to give it more credit. Perhaps I was not
a historian of UFOs. It's not that I thought it
was impossible, as I've said many times, I simply thought

(04:53):
it was unlikely that in my lifetime I would be
the you know, part of the generation where there was
a recognition of some sort of presence or observation or
whatever it is. And also, frankly, I was fairly skeptical
that the United States government could keep a program to
recover and deconstruct or whatever you want to call it,

(05:16):
reverse engineer UAP. I prefer to call them UFO. So
I'm just going to go back to that, and everybody
else can say whatever they want. But I just thought
it was somewhat improbable. But you know, in reflection, you know,
you can think of, you know, by analogy, that there
are programs that you know, the atomic bomb probably wasn't
known by very many people up until it blew up.

(05:39):
The D Day invasion, where you know, both sides had
certainly incentives to learn what was happening on the other
side and what's going to happen within a certain period
of time, was held secret despite hundreds of thousands of
people being on either side waiting for death. Frankly, so
you know, you can see, you know, so it's possible,
I mean, and you know, the levels of stupidity, frankly

(06:02):
that the government is capable of is astronomical. Another example
which gave me reason to think it might be possible
that they would do something as inane as trying to
hide the recovery and reverse engineering of UFOs and associated
strange things, was you know, Agent Orange. Actually, I mean,
if I you know, if you ever, I came from Arizona,

(06:23):
and Arizona is very hard to maintain a garden without
having weeds. It's just like you've got to nuke the ground.
And I'm not in favor of that. I prefer a
more natural setting. But in Arizona. It's all fake law
lawns and whatever, and you're out there cutting the grass
and so on. So so to imagine defoliating and whoever
came up with the genius idea of defoliating entire mountain

(06:46):
ranges and paths in a country in order to drop
iron bombs which are imprecise anyway, you know, is one
of the most extraordinarily stupid endeavors that could have ever happened.
And yet it did, you know, And I could go
on and on, you know, the whether it's nine to eleven,
the ridiculous invasion of the wrong country, uh, during the

(07:08):
random you know, during the Afghanistan, you know, in modern
whole thing. And then even our response to COVID was
completely asinine. It's not that I'm you know, anti vaccine necessarily,
but uh, you know, I iknew so without going into
all the you know, my my whole COVID stuff, Uh, fundamentally,

(07:28):
I had to accept that might be possible that the
US government, you know, we both had some very well
hidden program that it persisted over many decades, and in
addition was for some strange set of probably very human reasons,
not necessarily good reasons. But human reasons was inhibiting knowledge
about this within the domain of physics. Is Eric Weinstein

(07:53):
perhaps you know, believes or or just to the general public,
you know, and and and so I had to give
it some credence and that's where it kind of began
for me. And then they became more formally involved, as
you know, and of referenced only last year, although I
think I was a little bit before that, you know,
chatting with people in the community, reaching out to people

(08:14):
and getting their perspective, and you know that that was it.
So it wasn't you know, it wasn't one seminal moment
where you know, I was in my car and you know,
light came out and all that crap. Now, it's not
like that. It was just very.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
You have a you didn't have a Jake Barber moment
where or passed through you.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
And you know, that's a fascinating thing. I mean, I
both envy him for having such an extra extreme experience.
He certainly, in my opinion, believes what he believes. Genuinely.
That's what I infer by looking at his face and
understanding him and you know, his behavior. He really seems
to have had a phenomenal experience. I've had no experiences
what I must have whatever it is that keeps the
aliens away, and some people think that's good and some

(08:58):
people think that's bad. I have no opinion of it.
I'm not a you know, I'm not a eufologist, not
only in the in the sense that I've studied. You know,
I haven't studied this field as some have, and many
people sort of use that as a I wouldn't say
a crutch. I wish I could do much more study,
but you know, they feel very aligned with the study
of this phenomena. I, you know, really see it in

(09:22):
a very narrow lens. I'm not necessarily I almost think
of sometimes, you know, it's almost like a Jihattist for UFOs. Rather,
I am an American who wants our government to work,
and I think this would be one way of maybe
getting to some community, both within the United States and
within the world, so that we have something better to be.

(09:44):
And my predicament throughout this journey has been that the
people involved in this whole thing, not all of them.
Many of them are great people, and I don't want
to malign all of them, but we need to be
better on the route to the destination. As I always say,
it's not the aliens won't save us from ourselves. If
we bring mal intent and corruption and conspiracy and power

(10:09):
broker y and behind the scenes bullshit, then the net
result will be uh, you know, the aliens aren't going
to fix that. And there are many people who are
very enthused for the technology and they think they're going
to fly around on magic carpets or what the fuck
it is, sorry curse and you know, but for me,
that's not that's insane. You're not going to be better

(10:30):
on Mars with your you know, magic technology. You're not
going to be better. You're going to be just who
you are. So who we are now actually matters. And
there's many people within this community who allow people a
very poor character and poor behavior and actually bad intent
to lead this group of people. And I think it's

(10:52):
really unfortunate because your character does matter. You know, people change,
I understand, and we're all a mix of good and bad.
So you know, I understand that, but I'm not willing
to sacrifice my principles on the road to UFOs. That's

(11:13):
a good point. And so so after you have this
or at least you.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Have these series of thoughts where you start to consider
that what has been said around the UFO topic may
in fact there be there there is a there. Uh
you You then, how do you meet Elizondo and how
do you become specifically one of the most well known

(11:45):
people in in in ufology?

Speaker 2 (11:49):
How do you call ufology? I call it upology. I'm sorry,
I just I don't know.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, I think it's I think it's a potato. It'sato, honestly, Okay, Yeah,
so uphology. So, I mean, you went from zero to
sixty real quick, and it was some man who was
represented mind you, I didn't mean to cut you off there.
I do apologize. This is a man that was represented
by Danny Shean, right, this is a man who led

(12:20):
one of the most now at least allegedly led one
of the most well known you know, UFO programs, you know,
kind of what the whole twenty seventeen article was based around.
So you're reading that article and then you become a
lawyer for the guy that's talked about in that article.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Sure, So how does that happen? Well, I mean it
was very simple. I'll be you know, I'll tell you
the story I met him. I mean it's not a
big deal. And by the way, I know for you
all it's a big deal. But you know, I represent people,
whether you're a client, you know, who has a business
dispute with another client, whether it's corporations disputing certainly represented individuals,

(13:01):
and many kinds of things. I take everybody sort of
the same. So for me, it wasn't some you know,
I know, I know it's hard for you all to imagine,
but I'm not. Again, I'm not a you know, I'm
not a ufologist necessarily. I'm simply a lawyer who found
himself in unusual circumstance with an interest in the field. Okay,
that's it. I met Lou because a guy named Ewan Fung,

(13:23):
who is the former head of the UAP Disclosure Fund,
nice person. I happened to meet him once. I think
they were frankly looking for you know, there were some
additional people on this call with Lou who are perhaps
maybe going to give some funds or something like that,
and I just got I knew them, they were friends,
and I still respect them. They're two very nice people

(13:45):
in the community, and so I was introduced. I really
don't have any other greater explanation than that. It was
just a random moment where you know, it was like, Hey,
would you like to meet Lou I was like, I didn't.
I frankly didn't know much about him. I know that
sounds strange because you all did, but I didn't know
a whole lot about him. And got on the phone,
and you know, I found it to be a very
interesting and kind and re seeingly reasonable person. So I

(14:08):
got along with him. Well, and that really is and
I apologize, and you know, that's it. So it was
just a very sort I'm gonna meet my family.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
That was it.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
It was just a very positive experience, and enjoyed his conversation,
and you know, we continued to talk. I think he
at that point did not have a particular uh you know,
I don't know what was going on with his legal world,
but so we just talked to people. Now that really
where it began.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
You recently mentioned a new witness who could blow open
the New Jersey drone mystery, and that challenges Arrow's narrative
and really the official narrative that's been put forth by
the Trump administration, by the Buide administration, by pretty much
everybody without reviewing sensitive details what makes this witness so

(15:00):
significant and how could their testimony, you know, reshape the
public narrative and speculation about the incident.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
So I don't know that I've suggested that he's you know,
I don't know if quite I've characterized it that way,
but let me But I do think he has important
things to say, and I think he's a good person.
I met him, boy what, I don't know. It might
have been eight months ago. It was a random thing.
He reached out to me. He had a very unusual story,

(15:29):
although he was fairly readisent to share all the details
of it, which is typical. And I tend not to
ask questions of people beyond what they're willing to share,
out of respect for their internal you know, their internal morality.
So I don't try to coerce people in telling me
their stories or anything that you know, would certainly be classified.

(15:49):
And with him, he was not a government person and
seemed nice. He had a very unusual story and the
details of which, however, at least initially I could not confirm. However,
he did share with me, and then you know, became

(16:11):
more interested. Of course, a lot of the communications that
were going on, frankly with the Senate S s C.
I centered a rounds and others in his office, and
eventually Arrow too. And although you know, these are you know,
emails and texts and so on, and they don't necessarily,
you know, out of some degree of caution. I don't

(16:33):
think people put in, you know, the full script. So
I'm getting you know, you're kind of reading a whole
event or series of events that have transpired. But nevertheless,
there was a lot of smoke, and I didn't, you know,
I've not seen the underlying materials that he possesses, say
one component, and I don't mean a component, I just

(16:54):
mean a thing. But you know, I began to consider
his his story, and and he he asked me to
do a particular, very narrow task that was important to him.
I really didn't even understand why I was that important,

(17:15):
but I was successful with that task ultimately, and I
assumed it was just gonna leave it from there. You know,
I didn't really know what his desire was in full relief,
but he seemed to have had, you know, not the
best experience with certainly Errow, and I didn't know how
to make it right, but I was glad to have

(17:36):
accomplished the narrow task that I was asked to do,
which is fine by me. I'm an attorney or not.
You know, I don't have to see all the inside baseball. Then, however,
you know, Tim Phillips went on with Mick West, and
and actually what predates that, and was Representative Burlison spoke

(17:58):
to him, had some communications. I wasn't privy to that,
which is fine. I'm not a you know, I'm not
not a control freak. Well, unfortunately, there are there's this
the ufology crowd is filled with absolute maniac control maniac
except I don't know that there's there might be, you know,
some comparable group of people who are extraordinarily controlling. I

(18:21):
think it might deal be because I'm part of the
military and intelligence community background of these lunatics. But in
any event, I you know, he brothers and went out
said he had met with my client, felt there was
some degree of truth to what he was presenting. Let's say.

(18:42):
So that was fine. I didn't know where it was
going to go, but I wished him well. And then
the strangest thing happened, which was, you know, the Tim
Phillips interview with Mick West.

Speaker 3 (18:50):
Yeah, it's through I mean not through me for a loop.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
It is strange. I mean, I I don't know, you know,
I wasn't really keeping track of Tim Phillips. I really
didn't know much about him as a person. I knew
about Kirkpatrick just through the same stuff that you see
online and so on, and you know, he didn't seem
he seems smart but disingenuous, let's say. But Tim Phillips,

(19:15):
you know, I began to see that he was on
many podcasts, and on this podcast that around the forty
two forty three minute mark, he was asked a question
by Mick West, which was, you know, what was it
like to work with Arrow? Now? One of the funny
things about Tim Phillips, if you're an observer of people,
is that he tends to be fairly discursive. I am too,
sometimes because I'm tired and sometimes, you know, I kind

(19:36):
of want to lay out all my thinking. But he
was asked what was it like to work with the
task Force? Now, we can certainly talk more about the
task Force shortly. I'm sure that's gonna be a topic.
But he was asked that, and his response was extraordinarily strange.
It was it was orthogonal, to the question it was
you know, what was it like to work with the
task force? He could have said, you know, it was great,

(19:59):
or you know it's mint, or it wasn't my real
responsibility or whatever, and instead he says, they sent us
one witness who I had, you know, Essentially, he implied
that this one witness was a danger to others because
he said, I'm not a medical professional. And you know,
if I say I'm not a medical professional, but you're

(20:21):
a bank thief, you can't excuse your words by preceding
them with I'm not a medical professional, but I think
you're you know, wanted by the law that it doesn't work.
And he did that typically in a sort of self
protective way that people do. And then he also went
and said that you know that he brought in physical materials.

(20:43):
Mick West asimal, what you know, what did you did
you bring in physical materials? And having knowledge that he
did have physical materials, I was surprised that he was
willing to confirm that, and he did confirm it, and
then he went on to say that as a result
of that, either the physical materials and other written and
videographic and photographic and other information which I again I've

(21:04):
not seen myself but for one small but for you know,
sort of emails and texts and one object. He he
basically said that as a result of that, he went
back to talk to the chairman of which I assumes
the chairman of the SSCI, and who I believe is
Tom Cotton at least you know, and this year, and

(21:29):
he said he talked to him and as a result
he was recommended to go get read in to various
programs at what he called the Nevada test site, which
I assume is Area fifty one or something like that.
And then even stranger, he said that because of his
read into those programs and his knowledge of what my
client brought forth, that what he could understand why people

(21:57):
might think this technology was alien in nature because it
must be so technologically advanced. That was a mind blowing
moment in some respects, although you're having to follow sort
of the lattice work of Tim Phillips' presentation and thought process,
but essentially it confirmed that at least in some great degree,

(22:23):
whatever it was that my client presented to Centered Rounds
and Sci and Arrow was compelling enough to go get
Tim Phillips red into I guess at least more than
one program, he said program. So I'm just going to
infer it's more than one that has what might seem
to be alien technology. Now, because I know my client's story,

(22:46):
and I know it's exact timeframe two thousand and three,
and because I know what he claims he saw, it
would certainly not be a minor technology. And I want
to clarify, just for everybody, when you say something is
alien like, right, which is what Tim Phillips said, it
is distinct from saying it is simply advanced. So if

(23:09):
I said to you, you know, if I showed you
the I believe it's the NAD. I forget what it's called.
The F forty seven, I don't know some new plane
that we're building or potentially building, and I said to you,
does that look alien like? I don't think you would
say yes. I mean, you might say, shirts an upgrade
from the F thirty five or the F fifteen or

(23:29):
the F four, you know, one of those planes, But
you wouldn't say, wow, that's alien right. So what it is,
What this means is this is not just an incremental
or even a significant but still prosaic. Let's say improvement
upon existing technology. This seems to be a capability or
a capacity that is wild. Now. Originally putting it back

(23:55):
at two thousand and three was very strange for me, because,
first of all, I simply just didn't have the imagination
to think that the United States government could be that
advanced back in two thousand and three. I mean, you know,
I have not been told the drones over the East
Coast and elsewhere have been sort of presenting themselves, as
well as many videos of whatever it seems to be
going on. You know, I just didn't think we had

(24:17):
made that kind of advancement that was presented. You know,
I just couldn't fathom it.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Because I go ahead, well finish your point, because what
I'm about to say is going to require I apologize.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
No no, no, that's fine. I've probably gone to to have
a tency.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
No no, no, no, I'm loving this. Keep gone.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
But based on what you know I knew about the story,
and based on Tim phillips qualification of you know, confirmation,
whatever you want to call it, it suggested to me
that we've had a program and I've heard things that
suggest that we have some very advanced programs standing. I

(25:01):
didn't know how long standing. But you know, you think
about things like James Lekatski said, you know, I don't
know it took twenty years to get inside. You know,
he talked about getting inside of U. Yes to twenty years.
Well when was that? And you know, perhaps this is
been going on for much longer. I mean, we know
that there's been programs since this, you know, since the forties.
But you know, I had kind of accepted the idea

(25:23):
that they had gotten nowhere or that we certainly would
exercise we would use this tremendous capacity to do something
at least militarily, if not for social good. But we haven't.

Speaker 3 (25:34):
So it would have popped up in the public sector
such I would.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
Have thought so at some point. I mean, I'm sure
there's plenty of unique technology or you know, some super
torpedo or some super communications system or so even some
great satellites or something, but nothing that you know, we
don't understand is being sort of part of the five
observables or something very unusual. Right, But it appears to
be the case that we made some significant advances. Does

(25:57):
this mean that you know the tik bak was human
or not? I have no idea. I may have no
claims about that. He may have an idea about that
the object that he saw was not a tic tac
or at least at least at least initially. I can't
say later because I don't you know, I don't know
all the details, and I can't speak for him. And
by the way, just really quick, I haven't said enough
about him. He's a good person. He wants to you know,

(26:21):
he's just a business person. He is not a ufology
you know advocate. He it's not that he discredits it
or thinks it's unreasonable. He's just very sort of looking
to help the United States with what he considers a
prosaic need, at least in terms of, you know, a
thing that he can help with. It's based on human technology,

(26:42):
let's leave it at that. And so so that's his mindset.
And you know, I was shocked by the way he
was treated maligned for no reason. You know, there's so
many missteps these intelligence community people make to arbitrarily because
probably because frankly, I think was bothered by the weeks,
the preceding weeks, you know, when Burlison said he had

(27:07):
met with this whistleblower, and so they know who they
all are. I think he was in his head and
he was responding to something that bothered him. And so
in addition to simultaneously saying that my client and again
it is not Llewell's not a pleased for those who
are new understanding.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
So is this the person that has been talked about
as a potential future whistleblower.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
But will not right now? A.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
He's not a whistleblower. He's not a part of the government.
He's not revealing some he's not interior to a program
and coming out and saying there's corruption or whatever. He's
a private citizen who ran into a very unusual event,
had happened to have, through himself and his family, the
background to perhaps engage it in a sophisticated way and

(27:53):
gathered evidence and worked at it and figured some things out. Now,
again I can't speak to I've never seen it, you know,
I can only see the degree to which SSC I
was taking him seriously, trying to get him perhaps funding,
but was running into roadblocks because what he wanted to do, frankly,
was to help, you know, to help America prepare for

(28:14):
or at least understand that although this technology is very advanced.
It is not fool proof, and to me, the relevancy
of all of this is not what the underlying technology is.
Although it's very interesting because it may be derived from
our favorite topic, right uap or UFOs, And that's where
it becomes very interesting. But it also becomes interesting in
another way, which is that for me, I was reflecting,

(28:37):
I was thirty years old on nine to eleven, and
that was a you know, I remember, and you're pretty
I don't know how you look a little young, but
you know, compared.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
To thirty yeah, thirty two, so yeah, it's nine to eleven.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Yeah, you were young. You probably felt it. But you know,
I was thirty years old and watching people take swan
dives off of towers because of lunatic gihat is unfortunately,
which now are throughout our country with their insanity. But
but you know, I watched people swan dive off the
World Trade centers, and then I watched just make every

(29:13):
possible mistake in terms of how we treated our people,
in terms of invading the wrong country, in terms of
not you know, Halle Burton, if you remember all of that,
and it's corruption and you know, you know, all the
wrong things happen, and you know, so it was very
it was very shocking, and so for me personally, you know,
I really think that we have a big problem with drones.

(29:36):
Whatever these drones are over New Jersey and had been
prior to that over Colorado, Nebraska are a significant issue.
Whether they are merely advanced drones, whether they incorporate some
phenomenal technology, I don't know. I can't trust any videos
and photos anymore. I'm not a sleuth like that, But
what I will say is that President Trump.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
It's a sad world that live in where video evidence
is is, you know, with the advancement of AI, video
evidence is essentially like kind of it's being every day
more and more rendered obsolete in terms of credibility.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Yeah, kind of. It's a strange thing where as you
advanced technologically, the more truth can be found in the past.
And you know, and that's why doctor via via Roel,
if I was pronouncing her name's work might be very
important to astro chain because it predates, you know, our
efforts in space. So that science is incredibly important in

(30:37):
my opinion, although I certainly don't know what transients are
and still doesn't make sense to me. You know what
they are doing.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
I could.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
I was watching it, and I'm like, I don't really understand,
Like it was full frustrating because I'm like, I don't
really fucking understand what she's saying, but it sounds like
something that's very impactful and the science like that. That's
of course I had to do research. But I feel
you're frustrated that guy.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
And that guy Dennis. I'm sorry. I don't know his
name as Asperg or something like that. I'm sorry. I
just I apologize. I don't know his last name and
I'm probably mispronouncing, but his Asperger not Asperger. I don't
think it's that. I'm sorry, but but whatever his name is,
and I apologizer. He you know, his very emotional video
that he put up and then took down, And you know,

(31:25):
I really don't love taking down tweets because I not
unless frankly, there's a spelling her. Sometimes I'm tempted because
I often misspell. I hate to do that, but or
if I really mistook something or was incorrect, I'm always
willing to correct myself. But his h you know, he
seems like a person of good will in his sense
that something was very a miss or or maybe with

(31:50):
the science or with the information is persuasive to me.
You know, that's something there is there. So I wish
them luck and hopefully they can uh help the scientifically
less literate like myself and the scientific community which is literate,
come to do some conclusion about what what might be
going on. So it's unusual, but in any event, you know,

(32:12):
so for me, my client is a good person. He
was really just trying to to to look for sharing information,
seeing the business opportunities, and really working in good faith
with the executive branch and also with the Congress. Unfortunately,
as you can tell, it's a it's a it's it
is kind of a swamp in some respects. And uh,
you know, I know that he remains. I know that,

(32:33):
you know, if there is somebody out there who does
have the relevant congressional ties, you know, he's willing to
certainly re engage the government and and and do what
he can because again he's a patriot, he's he's around
my age, and and he just danced to do what
he considers the right thing. As well as you know,

(32:54):
he's invested with a lot of money, so there's business
interests there. So it's a combination of the things. But
ultimately I think that Tim Phillips confirmed something is very
significant about the information he presented. It has implications towards
advanced technology, the drones that we've seen over the East Coast,
which have been confirmed by President Trump. However, you know,

(33:14):
simply as FAA approved.

Speaker 3 (33:16):
I don't I don't think that that's true.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
And it begs all the questions of why are they there,
and what are they doing? And what technology do they use?
And are they all are And you know, I've heard
different things. He seems to have some sense that they're
that China has made some advancements, if not maybe to
our degree. But I can't speak for him, and until
he wants to come forward more, it is his choice

(33:40):
to remain in the background. But I would say that
he was mistreated by Arrow. This is no unusual thing, right,
I mean, I think let me let me tell you
on the point that I just like to make and
I see these weird patterns. But although I'm not particularly
a fan of Dave Grush, I will say for reasons,

(34:01):
I will say that the release of his medical records
is extremely you know, unfortunate. It's not a good look. Well,
I don't know if that had anything to do with Arrow.
Perhaps not, but if I found it coincidental that in
Kim Phillips deriding my client it became medicalized as him being,
you know, a danger to himself or others there. You know,

(34:23):
you see these patterns by people and then they repeat
because they can't help themselves, and I find that disgusting.
If I don't like you and who you are and
what you're going to say, I'm gonna tell it to you.
I'm very direct that way, and people don't like that.
And that's okay, because I don't live for ufology or
the UFOs. Frankly, I mean, I'm just going to say
here once and for all everybody, I'm not that I

(34:48):
don't care about the aliens. I care about the humans. Okay.
I don't care about your technology and your craft. I
don't think you're going to do any good with it.
I think that the knowledge of it is important in
the same way the knowledge of how the sun works
or how black holes work is also important. It teaches
us about what reality is and is not, and whether
it is masked to us or not. But I am

(35:10):
not particularly interested in, you know, that reality of aliens
or any child whatever you want to call them, a UFOs,
all that stuff, It does not fascinate me. The problems
we have are between and within us as human beings.
And I have said multiple times in many different formats
that the problems are us and the aliens will not

(35:30):
save us. And I mean that. And so deception and
control behind the scenes in this field is what exactly
is holding us back. And then you look at Congress
and with some exceptions such as I believe Tim Burchad
is a very nice person. I think Representative Brosen is
a really nice person. Yep. I think Senator Rounds is
a very intelligent person who might be keeping some things

(35:51):
from us. Yeah yeah, But outside of that, I'm not
that you know, this is not my ghod. My ghod
is to try to make government better and to bring
openness and accountability and transparency and ultimately cooperation. All of
this should be for a cooperative approach to resolving a sociological, political, technological,

(36:15):
and scientific phenomena.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
Well, what do you what do you think about if
trillions of dollars have been misallocated and funneled into essentially
black illegal uh illegally run without proper oversight from Congress
and thus the people that the taxpayer. Again, this is

(36:42):
a human issue, right, and so yes, if we find
out because Rogan and Luna had a conversation and I
want to talk to a little bit about something else
that that was said. But if we find out that people,
I mean, do you support mass and this?

Speaker 2 (37:01):
I personally do not. I don't, Okay, No, no, no, no,
I can understand where people are. You know, let's just
forgive everybody and move on so that there's no I'm
glad you feel passionate. That's nice. But again, yes, no,
I would not favor a mass amnesty for people. I
can understand that. You know, if you did the rough calculations,

(37:22):
just say, well, if you forgive you know, one hundred
or a thousand or ten thousand people. I don't know
how many people are behind all of this. Probably many
are dead, you know, it last a long time and
so on. But if we forgive them now, we will
get the benefit of aliens and spaceships and we will
go send to the stars and all of that. No,
you won't, You'll do what you've always done, which has
been corrupt and ridiculous. So there must be accountability. And

(37:45):
then when you think about the people who allege, and
you know, I believe there's some truth there. I haven't
seen enough to bring a legal case. But to the
people who alleged that they were in programs just with
them in very distressing positions and all this stuff, you
know that like the gay program, I don't know the
truth of it, you know, and I've got a lot
on my plate, but I would you know something of interest,
let's say, And I'll continue to keep my eye on it.

(38:05):
And I've met some very nice people who are good
people who say they were part of it, and I
don't dispute them. But at the same time, you know,
they have to want to do more, and I have
to have the evidentiary basis to do anything more. So
I'm at a loss with it. I'm at a standstill,
but I do I think it would be absolutely wrong

(38:25):
to compromise our ethics and also my morality at least
to forgive people for harming others and deceiving the American people.
No doubt, if there were trillions of dollars or hundreds
of billions or whatever it is spent over time on
black programs, you know, and there is a need for
black programs, because even the lineem that you have. You know,

(38:46):
I'm not saying that black programs don't have a place,
but the fact that there seems to be nobody to
account for whatever that might be going on, and they
deny any knowledge of this other than telling us at
least the ontology that we have some unique technology opportunities
from craft that we you know. And of course I
don't think they can because once you open up that

(39:08):
can of worms, everybody's gonna want to know, where's the bodies,
what are the craft? How long is this going going on?
And but you know what, I think that story should
be told. I think we need to come clean. We
do not need a review board to look at things
and sanitize things and decide what comes in and out.
We need accountable government from the people who are there
right now. We need the Senate, the Congress, you know,

(39:29):
the House, the agencies, and the President and the judiciary
when necessary to to to be true to its nature
and its purpose. Find your own north star, give us
whatever truth there is. America can handle the truth, as
Louel Azando does, saying so and repeatedly said, you know,

(39:51):
and and and again his his his philosophy is I
can't break the rules to make the rules. So he
has a little different you know. I mean maybe i'd
be more snow mishi and go off tangent, know and
run to Well. I wouldn't run to Russia unless I
could get myself in a room with Putine for about
five minutes, two minutes and finish him. But I mean death.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
But I'm not a fan of Putin, and obviously for
that reason, I'm also a big proponent of Ukraine as
well as Israel. But you know, I'm no fan of
his policy in Ukraine. But and I'm not religious. I'm
not religious. Just everyone I know not religious.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
Yeah, so whatever, I don't think.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah, I don't think that has really a place for well,
not that religion doesn't have a place in the in
the field.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
But he does. I'm okay with religion. I'm not against
it unless unless you're throwing acid in girls' faces, or
marrying off children, or stony gay people, or or suppressing
voices or banning music that particular religion. Yeah, I have
a huge problem with that.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
Yeah, and that of course is for a different time,
different yeah, different topics.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
But I you know it's something I am passionate about it.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
And you know, I know I talk about UFOs and
I talk about but I also like talking about political
uh the geopolitics, and I do like getting into that.
But I want to I'm gonna steer back a little bit. No, no, no, no,
don't don't be sorry. This is how it works, this
is how discussion works.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
I'm really sorry.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
I thank you. I love it. Uh. Luna was on
Brogan made some headlines.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
It made some headlines, and you know she while not
directly referencing Elizondo, she had said something.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
Lou responded to it by.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Showing some emails about So essentially, you have the leader
of the task force right this, the secrets task Force,
saying Okay, we're trying to bring these people in. They
they're they're talking a big game, but when we open
the skiff up, they're nowhere to be seen. They's skiff flu. Okay,
now that's the buzzword of the of the week, skiff flu.

(42:05):
And els Lou taking this to heart, you know, to heart,
whether it was about him or not, he steps out
and says, listen, that's not what's happening here.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
You know that that's not at all. What's happening?

Speaker 1 (42:19):
So and then Luna responds again and so, what is
going on?

Speaker 3 (42:23):
What is going on? What's the truth or what what?
What is what is your take on what's going on?

Speaker 2 (42:30):
I know exactly what's going on. Okay, So first of all,
let's go back Representative Luna in at the end of
the hearing last year in November, I think it was
November thirteenth where.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
I was there. So was I was, oh, yeah, yeah,
I know, I saw you that I was gonna bring
that up.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
People people made funny fun of me if I thought
I was you know, they made fun of my tie.
You guys don't know this, but at least all my tie.
So that's why my tie was weird. And I like it.
I love the guy. I mean, it's fine, but I
understand I was. I was extraordinarily tired too. People like
it looks like a lizard. I was like, yeah, I
felt like sleeping at the time.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
We were all at like four a m. Outside standing
in the fuck gold.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Yeah. Yeah, it was it's tiring.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
You know.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
Look, look, even after that hearing, instead of just being positive,
you know, she said, lou was there to sell books
all he said was in context that he had to
have doopts or review things so that he could release
certain information. It wasn't like he was saying he didn't
even name the book. I mean, if you're gonna be
a pop you know, he could have brought the book,
he could have waved it around, he could have said,
as you know, imminent, imminent, imminent. He didn't do that,

(43:34):
and then she had the gall the temerity tod critique him,
you know, when he was very critical to bringing you know,
to getting some of that, not all of that. I
think there were others who you know, who were involved
in getting that whole immaculate constant constellation, you know, all that.
So that was fine. You know, Jeremy Corbell did great efforts,
and I think you know, I always I love George Nappa,
you know, I appreciate the work that they've done and

(43:56):
you know, even if it may be different than what
I would do, but I appreciate that. But so, you know,
that was really quite an insult, and he didn't take
it personally. You know, lou is a very forgiving person,
a very kind person. He wasn't huffing and puffing about it.
He was like gosh, that was weird. Why why'd you
do that? But I said, I don't know. Maybe she
maybe that's what she took out of she was the

(44:17):
last thing she heard. I don't know, so and we
were exhausted. I barely remembered it, you know, but it
was something that was noted, and it was a strange
degree of sort of disregard for somebody who's you know,
I mean, let's be clear here, Luke lou had to resign.
Luke quit his job, and as a government employee, you know,
you don't, you don't. There's not always easy, you know,
easy parallel paths to go. So he's sacrificed for all

(44:41):
these years in ways that people will maybe never find out.
And I don't mean death threats or all that. I
kind of I'm sorry. I just I'm not a I've
dealt with a lot of death, and you know, I'm
sure he knows what he's talking about. But some of this,
the whole sort of illusion to violence, I'm I'm I'm
more skeptical about all of that, just because I personally

(45:02):
haven't seen it. But you know, whatever, it might be true.
But but he sacrificed a great deal of his time, energy,
you know, and everything and and and and made this
event in some way along with all the you know,
you always stand on the shoulders of the giants in
moving things forward. So so he's part of everything, but
not not everything. And he's humble about it. And for

(45:25):
her to come out of that and say that was
very strange and uh somewhat insulting, but you know, he he,
he moved past it and he was happy, you know,
and and then you know, we we move forward. And uh,
there was this opportunity, I guess to do a skiff
and I and is there anything you want me to
focus on? Because I can tell the entire story from

(45:47):
my perspective, but if you have a specific question, please
let me know.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Nook continue, I I definitely want to know what what
the why? There's a why there's a complete dissonance and
and are there's.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
Yes, yes, I will, I will. Well there's only really
one side, but you know, Luna could have her side
as incomprehensible and incoherent as it is. So she is.
I just I call her sometimes Princess Luna or Florida Woman.
It just depends on my mood.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
Florida Woman.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
Yeah, I get it that might become a sound bite.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
Listen, I don't care. I could care less people, you know,
all the UFO people are super like, oh god, you know,
don't say this to a senator representative. I mean, I'm
gonna just tell you a funny story. I was at
the UAPDF here and one of the lawyers there saw
me getting Eric Bertless's cellphone number because I was like, oh,
you know, I don't even remember why I was getting it.
I just got it and it turned out to be

(46:41):
handy later, but anyway, and he texted me, of all people,
but anyway, this was a long time.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
Yeah, he actually saw me too. It was weird.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Okay, good. He's a nice guy. He's a very very
nice person. I give him all credit for being a
peacemaker and a thoughtful person and a sober person. So
unfortunately there were some saf foo's. But but you know,
and this lawyer ran up to try to get the
same number because I was just bold enough and it
wasn't even bold. I was like, hey, what's your telephone

(47:09):
number in case we need to reach you to because
remember at that time, that was when the snaffoo had happened.
So I was trying to I had not, you know,
engaged in all the setup for all of this crap.
But then seeing how incompetent those people were at UAPDF, frankly,
I decided to get somebody's numbers so I could say, hey,
are we on? Because you know this was it was
a strange cancelation. So to go back. There was this

(47:32):
idea of a skiff, and frankly, Lou Alizondo was going
to go there, I think really in a coordinating fashion
rather than a testimonial one. Necessarily that he was bringing
people who he thought could be helpful to the task
force to from different agencies who had been working on this.
That is as literally, that is as broad as I

(47:53):
understood it, and I was fine. Lou asked me to
present myself. I was willing to go. He had maybe,
you know, sometimes time you have a concern based on
his experience as to whether he would need a legal
advertent council at the time. I'm always happy to do
that to whatever limited extent I can. You know, it's
going to be inside a skiff, I unless there's some
reason for me to be inside there that engages a

(48:16):
legal topic. I had not been part of any of
the planning, you know. So I had not intended to
be in any skiff or anything like that, although if necessary,
i'd certainly do so. But there's a process for that,
which I think pretty pretty elaborate for a civilian.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
So yeah, you're I'm a civilian.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
There's civilion, but you're you're an attorney for someone who's
but you you still don't have the clearance.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
No, no, no, I have no clearances. And beyond that,
I'm just telling you guys, and I know it's unbelievable
to all of you, and everybody wants to be in
the room where it happened or fly on the wall.
I have no interest in that at all. I don't
care what these people say in their skiff. I wish
them luck, find the aliens, find the UFOs, find the
government corruption, but I don't need to know that. I'm
not sure what I would do with that information. What

(49:01):
am I going to do? Knock on a hangar you know,
Rambo style and you know parachute in and you know,
I mean, what am I going to do with this crap?
So I'm like, go do what you're going to do.
And if there's a legal component where I think there's
any jeopardy or some pressure, I will certainly be there.
So that was really it. I was very tired. I
had a lot of trial work the week before, but
I said, okay, I'll fly in, fly in. I forget
if I arrived the day before, you know, Sunday or Saturday.

(49:24):
I forget exactly when. But I flew in and there
was a lot of emails being back and forth. And
I will say this right now. I was on a
chain of emails and David Grush was on those chains
of emails. I still have them. And he was very
persistent about qualifying who was going to be in the
room and what their role was going to be, and

(49:45):
if they had clearance and if their agency did this.
And on one sand I respected it because you know,
you want to make sure they you know that there's
not a snapoo and something. Somebody gets up to the
door and it's like, I'm sorry, but you're not on
the guest list. So I understood that. I did not
know that it was his role in particular to be
sort of the you know, the security guard for the skiff,
which is what he seemed to be making himself into.

(50:08):
So I was strangely not impressed, let's say, by the
degree of sort of I'm gonna be careful, but I
would say I found it unusual how invested he was
and making sure everybody who was there had to write
and reason to be there. I didn't know that that

(50:28):
was his role, whether it was imposed, whether it was appointed,
I had no idea. I thought that was handled through
like the House Sergeant of Arms or the House Security
Committee or you know. But look, it's okay. I could
care less. I was barely tracking those emails except seeing
multiple multiple emails going back and forth and on. Saw
those lunatics, and I, you know, was I got a

(50:51):
weird feeling the week before that maybe something might not
work out or maybe a person might not be able
to present because of this. And I just assumed, who knows.
I was like, whatever, these people are very security conscious.
I respect that. Let them get the right clearances. If
he wants to invest his time in that, that's fine. Yeah, yeah,
that's fine. Yeah. However, so there was the so that

(51:14):
was happened in the week prior. There was one thing
that also happened that was very alarming to me. And
I will just say that I've communicated that to Eric Burlison,
And I will also say that there was an engagement
that I found very inappropriate by the UAPDF people about

(51:35):
lose testimony inside that skiff. Beyond that, I will not
go further, but they have at least and it was
coercive and I found it extraordinarily inappropriate, and I mean it,
and I am happy to go and give and testify
under oath, not before the Luna screw her, but again,
but if if need be, I am more than willing

(51:57):
to go under oath and polygraph or whatever it is.
You know it's usually under oath. I'm an attorney, I
have bar licenses. I you know, there's things of jeopardy.
But I found there were some very inappropriate communications. I
do not like the people at UAPDF, except for Chris Mellen,
who's a very decent human being. But the rest I
have no communication with and would never speak to them again.

(52:18):
So there was a tremendous I chewed people out at UAPDF,
and I told them if they ever did that, because
it was infringing upon my professional duties. It was trying
to coerce me, to coerce lou On behalf of I
won't even say Girliston has that information and I'm done
done with it.

Speaker 3 (52:38):
So that was not why Lou and Matt left.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
I don't know why Matt left. I think he wanted
to work on his podcast. I think he maybe felt
his role. You know, I don't know. I wasn't a
part of you APDF. They wanted me to be, and
we can tell that story another time, but I refused
because I began to get Inklan's frankly, that they were
really trying to control things. They're a bunch of control freaks.

(53:04):
Except for Chris Mellon, seems like a decent human being,
honorable person. But I'm not going to prevent I am
going to come out and say my truth. So, yeah, yeah,
they're they're horrible. And not everybody, not the board member.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
Well you don't have to Yeah, you don't have to
get into it. But I get what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
But some of those people, their behavior was abhorrent to me,
to the point where it cross my mind that if
if some of this had been in writing, but we
can elicit the testimony and emails and so on in details,
that I would be moving for a bar complaint against somebody.
So I was extraordinarily angry that anybody would try to coerce.
It's different when you try to give some information, but

(53:45):
this was coercive and I will never have that again.
I will never let that happen again. One thing you
cannot do with me is try to get me to
coerce my client to do anything he or she does
not want to do. That's never going to work for you,
and I will never be controlled by that. I'm a
lawyer for a reason. I'm not here for uthology. I'm
here to be an actual lawyer. I go to trial,

(54:07):
I stand before judges. I do the right thing within reason,
and I don't represent you. And I try to represent people,
even with their flaws, as best I can. And I'm
talking about Louis starting generally. So anyway, so that Skiff, Yeah,
let's just go. Let's just tell the whole story. To
be dene with it. Skiff's supposed to happen April twenty nine,
get an email I flew in. I think, yeah, maybe

(54:28):
it was the same day. I don't know, but anyway,
get an email. I didn't even look at it that
that you know, the meeting had been canceled, and I
didn't know why it was given that. We were given
a very banal reason that there was some legislative snafoo
and so on. Okay, and that was fine. You know,

(54:50):
if that had been it, and it had been true,
I would have been like, well, that's weird. This seems
very like surprising because you would know your legislative schedule.
But things do change in Congress at at a moment's notice,
and we have to be flexible. So I was disappointed,
But I'm like, I'm not going in the skiff. I
don't even know what's going on. I don't I don't
care that much, and I'm not here to be associated

(55:11):
with people who want to be in a skiff, right, Like,
I'm not the person who wants to hang out in
the room or next to people. This is all garbage
to me. So I just said, look, fine, nobid do.
Then within a day or two, Representative Luna actually told
someone it might have been Matt Laslow or somebody else,
that the reason the skiff had been canceled was because

(55:31):
Dave Grush did not have a security clearance.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
I remember this, Well, wait.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
A minute, why didn't you tell us that in the
first place. Dave grush. I mean, why did you invite
all these people to this event? If the primary reason,
did you think he was going to get a security clearance?
Did you you know what's going on here? Now? There
may have been other reasons too, legislative reasons, maybe some
personal reasons. I don't know. Unfrankly, I don't care, because

(55:59):
all timately I would have been happy to say, well,
you know, things didn't work out, let's go tow it
around DC. I met a nice person for lunch. I mean,
you know, it just it was fine. It was fine,
you know right. The problem was is that after that
there was the UAPDF show whatever you want to call it,
on that Thursday'll just tell you. I don't want to

(56:22):
go into all the details again, but you know Lou
was run ragged. There was a dinner the night before
it was planned by those nitwits. Lasted UNTI almost eleven pm.
I will tell you, as a person who actually puts
people up on the stand, I do not tell them
to do anything that you know, do not stay up
till eleven o'clock at night if you have to perform
at you know the next day following position, get some sleep,

(56:43):
eat what you like if you work out, work out first,
you know, take a walk, Like there's things you do
to get people ease into things.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
That's actually a good point.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Oh it was insane.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
It was actually I didn't even think of before.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
It was just it was actually quite sad.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
So it was like, keep them up till eleven drinking.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
He wasn't drinking. He was drinking water and he was
you know, no, he wasn't drinking to my knowledge.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
I mean, he has a right to, but I'm saying I.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Have a drink.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
But the night was a thing that goes to eleven,
and like you would assume that.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
Look, it was probably a nice you know, people thought
it would be a nice opportunity to talk and all that,
but I mean, you know, this is game time, guys.
You don't you don't like if you you you know,
the u APDF people were like, we're the geniuses in
the room. Meanwhile they're doing something completely asinine and scheduling
this guy for an insane schedule to where he I
have no idea, and then to drive starting at ten

(57:41):
thirty or eleven back to you know where his house was,
kids whatever it was. I mean, my god, it was nuts.
And he dropped people off, including ourselves. I mean, I
felt bad for him, I felt bad for myself, but
I assumed it was fine. And you know, some people
operate well on tremendous being tired. I don't know, they
seem to overperform. So it was strange and there were

(58:04):
some very strange experiences at that dinner. There was a
lot of testifying, which I also found extraordinarily self serving
and disgusting. And I'm not going to even get into that,
and I don't care about those people. I would just
tell you there was a lot of weird stuff. There
are also some great people, I thought, you know, there
was some really nice people too. Eric Davis was a
gentleman and very interesting and fun, and you know, I

(58:24):
briefly talked to him. I talked to some very nice people,
but there were also people who were I just described
him as sycophants, and I don't like him. So Lou
came out of that. The next day, you know, we
went to that event. Lou was extremely tired, you know.
He you know, there was the photo issue, which I

(58:45):
did not know a damn thing about it, just like frankly,
I didn't know recently about all this stuff. On Twitter.
I saw it like everybody else. I'm not what you
all think is some sort of like I'm a handler,
like i'm Tom knit with, I'm a lawyer. I don't
have time to be tying his shoe or or or
and he doesn't need me for that. He's an adult
human being. So I'm not his you know, his handler.

(59:08):
I'm certainly not somebody who's going to impose your thinking
upon him. I am here to act on his behalf
and a legal capacity to the degree he wishes. And
that is it.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
So so what the photo thing, I actually wasn't even
to touch that, But I mean, could you at least
agree that probably wasn't the best decision.

Speaker 3 (59:33):
And but maybe it does.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
Maybe it was just a bad like you know, like
you said out late the night before.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
He was asked to hype the UAPDF didn't have money,
and he was asked frankly, to hype their organization, hype
the event. We need hype because they're always desperate for money.
There is a degree to which it is griff.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
I mean lily in the name right, well.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
I mean you know they had to name it that
and they're five ohc three obviously four I believe, which
is collecting money to give the people, you know, to
influence people. So they're a lobbying organization essentially, although they
claim not to do lobbying whatever we'll see. But but yeah,
so they you know, so he holds up this photo.
I agree the photo was. I thought it was a
water tank or something, because you know, I've flown over

(01:00:19):
the Southwest. I used to live in Phoenix. I'm flying
around all the time. It looked like a water tank.
I don't know, But you know, what is the UFO
supposed to look like on the ground from above? Maybe
like a water tank? Like I fucking don't know what
these things look like. I think he was just encouraged
to be provocative by these morons. He was tired and
exhausted because of their particular schedule. I don't think. I don't.

(01:00:42):
I think he was curious about the photo. Maybe I don't.
I don't know. Maybe you know, I really don't know,
but i'd never seen it. But his point was again,
as you know, anybody with any reason could see, was
simply to say, look, guys, you know there's photos that
commercial pilots and other people get. We should have a
place that's probably not arrow to resolve all of that stuff.

(01:01:02):
I had been under the misimpression that actually the FA
or somebody had like a center for sending in anomalist photos.
I thought that had already been done. But I believe
that's not correct. I believe that that turned out to
be true, not true. So as I was sitting there,
I was like, gee, I thought, I thought there was
already this, you know, but I understood the point of it,
and he meant it with the best of intent. He

(01:01:23):
wasn't trying to discredit the field or himself obviously, he
was just extremely tired trying to be you know, get
some notorieties done. And you know, then you had all
this stuff with the you know, Eric Davis and the
four different aliens.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
That was wild.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
It was. I was really surprised that no major media
was like, wait a minute, what are you saying here?

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
I mean, that was and let me ask you, because
again you're not You're self admitted that you're not really
one for like, you don't the research.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
I don't. I don't care about your aliens.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Right now, there is something called the Wilson Do you
know about the Wilson Davis memo? Yeah, of course, yeah, okay, okay,
so you do know, But so a guy who writes
allegedly because still I don't know why he wasn't asked
right then and there, bro, did you write these notes?

(01:02:19):
Let's confirm it right now, because if so, there's a
lot of I mean, if that, if that meeting actually
happened in his document, if if he would say under
some sort of congressional I thought for sure that we
were at that's what we were going to get, but
instead he's talking about a species of aliens.

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
And and sure, I.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
Feel like we went from it went from very nuts
and bolts to very not nuts and bolts very quickly.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
Look, you know, yeah I was I didn't have no
or listen, there was no preparation in any run through
that I could tell. It was very There was no
run through for the event that I was participant of.
Or two. I know that they've made efforts to you know,
get the room. They screwed up the sound, but that's
understandable because of you know, technical difficulties happened under the

(01:03:13):
best circumstances. They happened just a while ago and on the show.
But but yeah, you know, I don't know what to
make of it. I don't know what the intent was.
I wasn't responsible for the organization. Generally speaking, I thought
the strategy behind it was strange. As a participant, I
was just seeing it, you know, because you have a
miss smash of here's a photo and here's Aliens and
all this crap, and then you know, a viy lobe

(01:03:35):
And he was very interesting to listen to. But he
went on quite a bit, and I was like, wow,
is he going I didn't know if I was risk
one for twenty you know, I thought everybody was gonna
be on for ten, twelve minutes, fifteen minutes, but he
went on at length and it was It was actually
very interesting, and I have you know, he's a very
interesting and a very charming person. You know so well.
I mean, maybe you.

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
Don't like him, but I didn't say that, didn't say okay,
I listen. I just had him here.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
He was just okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry.
I apologize. So I apologize to you and Dovulo, but
I have no discreditor. And also he's a very nice person,
so you know, so so I don't under I didn't
understand the strategy of the event, but it seemed to
be you know, typically a mishmash of ideas and people,

(01:04:19):
and uh that was it. And I actually left around
right after lou held the photo up. I for no
reason but coincidence, I took a break. There was a break,
and I got out of the room. I think I
might have left on cam. I don't know, because I
needed to catch a plane and frankly, I just wanted
to go. You know, I was tired. I was unhappy
with those people and the way it was organized and
all the stress and what they communicated to me the

(01:04:41):
week before on behalf of Lunatic, So I was just
not having it. And uh, I just rolled out, got
my suitcase, went to the airport. I had a beer
and worked on legal work. And then it got even
weirder on the plane, but you know, because of the
staff of the photo and some idiotic communications with those dummies.
So anyway, and there's all if necessary to come out,

(01:05:02):
but I don't care. I just I'm just I'm just
sick of these people. So so ultimately what happened was
is all of that ended, and I didn't know much
about it other than there was a you know, issue
of the photos. Now I can understand where UAPDF for example,
and you know, did not want to at the time,
uh issue any positive statement about Lou because maybe they

(01:05:24):
didn't agree with him putting up the photo, or it
was too impromptu, or it led to you know, you know,
they didn't like it. And I get it, and I
think Lou regretted showing it because he hadn't vetted it,
although his point again was it was an exemplar of anything.
He could have held up a rubber ducky and said, look,
here's a rubber ducky. Let's find out what it is.
You know, it was just meant in good spirit. But

(01:05:44):
it but but in this UFO world, everything you do
is micro you know, you're under a microscope, and unfortunately
it's very unfortunate. So so then this idea came about.
And again I was not part of the logistics of
it that they were. You know that they were going
to read do this skiff and that's fine, Okay, things
can be redone. Why not you know, sure, Okay, I

(01:06:07):
may not be able to attend it, but it doesn't
seem like a big deal or maybe I could have.
You know, I personally wasn't I was just thinking, I
don't know if I want to come back to sit
outside a room and just be around these lunatics. And
then at some point, and I don't know exactly when
it was, Luna said that these people have the skiff flu. Now,

(01:06:32):
Joe Mergia came up with something where I think he
said he had a post where he was very specific
about exactly what Luna said. But it was very clearly
that she was implying that Luelazondo was sick or avoidant
in some way. She didn't really mean really sick. You know,
if a person had been really sick, you wouldn't say, well,
he just got diagnosed with cancer. You know, he's got

(01:06:53):
skip blu. No, it was really intended to condemn him
for failing to appear at her beck and call with
three days notice. And I mean, what, That's not the
way it works. Maybe for you lunatics and UFO Land
you're like, you know, some unemployed idiot, and Oregon's like
I would have left everything, dropped everything, go get for God.

(01:07:16):
Is because I've been you know, go fuck yourselves. That's
not how it works. You've got to be real and
you're part of a professional institution, you know, I mean,
I mean you're part of an organization that supposed to
be the leadership of our country. That's not how you
coordinate meetings. I'm sorry if you don't know how to
do it. I have a paralegal who could do better
than you. Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
So you're saying that there was a lot of misconceptions
about how this has has gone down.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Not misconceptions displies, No, Yes, so they attributed. So she stupidly,
impulsively and incorrectly maligned lou and implied that he was
the one that caused this snaffho And then she on
rogan and did it again. She doubles down why attack

(01:08:04):
Luell was under the guys voluntarily come. He is a
volunteer witness, He's a volunteer coordinator. He's a volunteer of
all of this. He does not make money from this.
He does not even get his expenses repaid except into
you know, occasionally if an organization will will repay it. Okay,
But other than that, he does not profit from this.

(01:08:25):
So he is a volunteer to come before the Congress,
and she sent him under the bus. Never asked what
you know, never said anything about David Grush. Never if
you're implying that, you know, Christopher Mellon didn't show up,
I'm sorry, but you know he was probably not feeling
well too, and maybe legitimate, you know, a real issue, right,

(01:08:47):
And I don't I don't talk about the medical stuff.
I'm just saying people get sick, they get colds. You
know they're not feeling that well. That's life, right. So
they said that lou was the guy who was essentially
avoidant of testifying or giving information or participating in this gift.
Nothing could have been further from the truth. The date

(01:09:09):
they chose was extraordinarily inconvenience. It's not just flying from Wyoming.
He had a commitment. I think of that same near
that same time. You know he's been traveling, he's exhausted.
I mean, you cannot just tell people show up. I'm
the princess and that's what you need to do. That's wrong.

(01:09:30):
And then at that point, also let's get into two
other points. First of all, why should I have great
confidence you're going to not do it again? You did
it the first time. You didn't tell us The real reason,
which apparently was Dave Grush had some security clearance issue.
So well, did he get his security clearance fixed by
mid May? Then if he didn't, why did you cancel

(01:09:51):
in April? So nobody is asking these questions. They don't
hold themselves to account if the Office of Luna or
Burleson or any of those people who are responsible for
this had just come forward and said, look, we screwed up.
There were legislative considerations that were extremely important for us.
Some people are sick, you know, things get continued. We're sorry,

(01:10:14):
but we like these people. We will invite them back
at a time where it works out for everybody. We
apologize for a variety of snapfoos. Everything will be fine.
Let's do it again. Instead. Representative Luna on her own initiative,
comes out, comes out swinging at luel Azando for no
reason and if she has a reason, tell us but now.

(01:10:38):
And then of course she's like as dumb as a
rock and says, oh, well, you know I didn't put that.
It was Loue Alizondo, you idiot. So yeah, I'm not
having it with her.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
Yeah, I was insane because she made the comment about
and you know what, I don't defend one one person
or another, and I'm not that type of I don't
take sides, but I will say she mentioned okay, no,
he wanted to, like the person got skiff flu they
wanted to sell books but didn't come. I mean, you

(01:11:09):
could have only been talking about Elizondo. And actually, if
you watch Rogan's interview with Louelizondo, he repeatedly does say
and I will give him this, he repeatedly does not.

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
He says, I'm not here to promote the book. I'm
here to talk to you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
So I mean, I mean, look, you know, whenever you're
on national media, you are promoting something in your brand,
your books or something. I mean, let's not look lose
a good person. And you know, if I was on
Rogan and I had a book or a frying pan,
I'd probably be routing it. But you know, he's he's
he really is in there with the intent of telling
America this is an issue you need to pay attention to.
I'm only going to tell you up to a certain

(01:11:51):
point because I believe I have commitments to the government,
and if there's a relieve I will tell more than
I can. You know more, But that's it. He's just
that guy. He's not going to go he will not
break the rules to remake the rules. Sorry, you don't
like that, go find go find us Snowden to do that.
Who cares? But that's not him, so real simple anyway,
So she went out of her way to attack him. Now,

(01:12:14):
she is a politician, she's popular. She's always showing herself,
you know, with more with Trump or with more prominent people.
She's always a firebrand. She's always claiming, you know, Biden,
who's close to dead, is responsible for this, and Hillary
read this, and Obama this. Meanwhile, she's supposed to be
the get Epstein, We're going to change everything. Meanwhile she's like, oh,

(01:12:35):
I don't know Epstein's fine because no longer convenient. I
find she has absolutely no principles and I don't find
her very smart. So that's what she did. She did
the worst thing to try to ruin intentionally the life
of somebody who's just trying to help. I mean, my god,
how incompetent. But you know, frankly, because of what happened

(01:13:00):
in the week prior to the April twenty ninth thing,
I can tell you that somebody wanted Louel Azando to
be subpoenaed. I was literally told that he would you
know that he could get subpoena. That was like, who
gives a shit? I deal with subpoenas every day, you clowns.
So look, here's the reality. You know, there are some

(01:13:23):
really terrible people who have no courage. And by the way,
u APDF people, you didn't even come out and say
anything nice about lou You could have easily come out
and said, hey, this was a snaphoo. It wasn't Louela
Zondo's fault. But because they were trying to distance themselves
from the photograph, they were just like quiet as mice,

(01:13:44):
no support for him back, just just letting him hang
out to dry as if he had skiff flew. That
was disgusting. You have no courage, you have no principles.
I don't respect you.

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
Yeah, yeah, I think, well, thank you for clearing clearing
that up, because I mean, all.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
Right, well I'm done with it. But I will just
say this, Look, Loue Alizondo is more than willing to
present himself to Congress. Frankly, I would not advise him.
My personal advice and you know he's hearing it, and
he's heard it before, is that I would not do
anything with Luna that isn't public because I don't trust
her the way he's been treated, but he feels otherwise.

(01:14:25):
He is still willing to present himself to a skiff
to to to do so and to give to I
personally think he will come out of there and she'll
smash him anyway. She'll say he was unhelpful, didn't have
the information, was reticent. And remember he can't give anything
in a skiff until he is cleared by certain agencies.
Just because a member of Congress wants to know something

(01:14:47):
doesn't mean they can inferring the rights of the executive.
You know. You can't be like, uh, hi, I'm represent
I'm Florida woman representative. I want to know what who
are agents are in Poland? Coming here and give me
all the names of the agents in Poland. No, you
got to go to the CIA or to the you know,
whoever the hell you have to go to. You've got
to go to somebody.

Speaker 3 (01:15:08):
It doesn't give you a blanket need to know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Yeah, it doesn't give you the right to just know anything.
But you want to ask, you your paste? So if
she went ahead, so anyway, listen, bottom line comes down
to lou is always willing to go in a public setting.
If he wants to go on a skiff, I'm going
to accompany him. But make no mistake, I'm coming as
a lawyer. Subpoena all you want. I could care less

(01:15:31):
and challenge accepted lady, because you've done harm to people.
You're scared. You're scared. When I read and hear these
reports that the whistleblowers are rolling out not wanting to testify,
I'm like, of course not. I mean, based on our experience,
why would you. You'll be lambasted, You'll be set aside.
So of course it's it's a clown show. And she's
the head of the task force. Can you imagine such incompetency? Now,

(01:15:53):
this is I'm not. I'm not. I'm not the nice guy.
Lou is the nice guy. He'll always be the nice guy.
He's probably too nice for his own good. But I'm
not the nice guy. And people who know know that
when I'm not the nice guy, it's not nice.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
So understood, I mean, and listen, I I'd be if
I was in that position, and if if everything you know,
if that's exactly, if that's how it went down, I'd
be pissed too. And you and I was going to ask,
what you know if you had a whistleblower, and like
would you would you send them to Congress? Like would

(01:16:29):
you feel safe sending them to Congress? At this point
to Luna and I, I you answered obviously with the
with the no, it would have to be more public.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
So that that's so.

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):
I think. I think, Look, look what listen I made.
You know, I'm the I'm probably the I'm I don't
know if I'm the one who coached her and issuing
her first subpoena in this area. But if I have
good I think the task force should issue subpoenas. But
I think they should grab Colonel Now. I think they
should grab James Lakatski. I think they should. I think
they should grab other people. David Grush, I think they

(01:17:01):
should grab them all and do it.

Speaker 3 (01:17:04):
The forty hospital witnesses that the.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
One person they the one person they subpoena, is gonna
be the one person who's been coming to Congress for
seven years? You moron, I mean, what is wrong with you?
So look, you know, look that is weird. Actually that yeah,
of course it's weird. Why not look for behind the crevices?
Why not look behind the couch. Maybe that's what you
just can't It's incredible, it is so disappointing.

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
So I have you know ironic that you just brought.

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
So there's been online discussion, There's been discussion for quite
some time now, including you know, including lou to a
degree about this idea of the date, the year twenty
twenty seven, end of the world. And listen, I know

(01:17:58):
I want you to be able to rear back on
this one because there are people who are saying that
they're becoming concerned because people are telling them, you know,
that the world is going to end.

Speaker 3 (01:18:12):
Chris Bledsoe says that the you know, the the Sphinx and.

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
The ore Regulus are going to ligne and humans will
go through a transformation and.

Speaker 2 (01:18:25):
It's like a lot to show the leftovers or some.

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
Weird shit, right right, So there's been a lot of
this kind of stuff out there, and lately, you know,
it's kind of taking a turn towards like this apocalyptic scenario.

Speaker 3 (01:18:40):
What's going on?

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
Listen, I have heard all the dates. I mean, I
don't know all the dates. But first of all, let
me just point out for your audience a problem I have.
Let's say, somebody came to you and I said to you, hey,
you know I have some bad news. You know, something's
going to happen in twenty twenty seven. Or let's say

(01:19:03):
let's go back to nine to eleven. Right, let's say
somebody came up to the CIA or FBI and said, guys,
something is done right in this that analogy, right, But
let's say somebody came and said something's gonna happen, right,
wouldn't you want to know, like more precisely, you know,
somebody came up to me and said, hey, guys, we're
gonna have some terrors. They're gonna jump in some planes,

(01:19:24):
and we're gonna a lot of chatter. I would be like,
can you tell me at least if it's going to
be on a Tuesday. Can you tell me if it's
going to be on a federal holiday?

Speaker 1 (01:19:33):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
Do I have to do a guessing game? So this
idea of twenty twenty seven is so asinine? Or any
of these dates, whoever is the genius behind all of
these dates, or any single one of them, could you
be more precise? I assume if it is a comet,
a meteor, the sun blowing up, ghosts showing up in

(01:19:55):
our dimension whatever, you wouldn't know it would be. No, Oh,
it's to be August twelfth at two thirty two pm.
I guess I'll cancel my appointment, you know. And I
don't see any behaviors of anybody acting differently than they
should be, unless they anticipate living a long and prosperous life.
I just am finishing the build of a duplex, put

(01:20:15):
a metal roof on it so it could last one
hundred years or fifty years. I'm planning for next year.
I've set trial dates. Lou Alzando's up at a bar
and trying to do a business so he can help
the people in his community because it's a small town
and it needs more business and employment. None of these
people are acting like it's the end of the world,

(01:20:36):
So I don't know comes from. Certainly, I probably asked
people about various dates. I got to tell you there.
I will give to one thing, but one funny story
I had in somebody, and they didn't really I don't
remember they gave me a date, but I do remember
they were telling me some weird story about like a
blue planet with blue souls or I don't even know
what it was. It was super weird. The guy was

(01:20:57):
a nice guy. I'm not trying to be mean to him.
I'm just saying, you know, I've heard all these weird
stories and I don't put one bit of faith on them.
What's happened is, unfortunately, you know, there's a particular person,
a guy named Jonathan Davies. I believe he is a
lunat idiot of who's the head of Unhidden and has
a board member of Jay Stratton, who certainly hates me
for certain reasons. And uh, you know, so they yeah

(01:21:19):
and so and Jay, if you're out there, you know
what I mean. So I'm just telling you that these
lunatics go behind the scenes. And people have told me
many times that I've been discredited, said to be an
intelligence agent, said to be, you know, disingenuous. I need
to be, you know, I don't even know what the
rumors are. They're so weird. I'm an alien. I mean,

(01:21:40):
there's so these people are such nerds. I mean, sorry,
there's such nerds. I just can't help it. I don't
mind nerds, but but you know, I mean they're just weers.
They're trolls. They're disgusting, and so do I believe there's
any date of impending apocalypse. Please don't call I love.
I've had people call me in the nicest ways and
trying to ask the guys, is there something happening. There's

(01:22:00):
nothing happening that I know. I do think we have
to worry. I do think we have to worry about
a new COVID variant or you know, bird flu. I
think we have to worry about Putin deciding, you know,
he's the king of the world and destroying everything. I
have to worry about Taiwan, I have to. I think
we have to worry about Islami jihadism in Pakistan and
maybe a bomb going a rant or a dirty bomb.
I think we have to worry about genetically modified organisms. Perhaps,

(01:22:21):
you know, there's a lot of things we really have
to worry about prosaic and certainly the drones are very
very curious. I think we have to switch our immediate
attention to them. But I do not think there is
any apocalyptic event. I think that's garbage. But I would
just say that if there were an apocalyptic date, and
if anybody were spreading that rumor, and if that rumor
were presented to Congress, it would be colonel call now.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
Oh wow, Okay, so you are not messaging, you're not
talking about any dates.

Speaker 2 (01:22:53):
Let me be extraordinarily clear again. There is no date
I am aware of, right, no date, not even a
year that I have any reason to believe at all
there is any apocalyptic event forthcoming. Okay, none, zero, no,
no date, no doom. I know you like it because
it gives meaning to your lives or some fascination or

(01:23:17):
reified that the aliens are going to come and I'm
going to be transported to you know, to visit my
grandparents in the past or whatever the fuck you stupid thing.
But there is no dates of apocalypse, and I don't believe.
I don't believe in any of it. I think it's weird.
I'm not saying it's not possible, because I have to
accept there are always a possibility that maybe something could happen.

(01:23:38):
And so, for example, if doctor via Roell's work is
true that there are these transients, and you know, I mean,
I'm going to give it a possibility that you know,
that anything is possible, and we have had I mean, remember,
I don't know how long ago, but there was a
comment that hit of or yeah, a meteor com I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:23:54):
What it was hit Russia.

Speaker 2 (01:23:56):
Russia is not the Tungusta one, but it was the
other one that was you know, ten years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:24:01):
Or something like that. Yeah, there's video of it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:03):
Right, And I mean I'm sure, I wish I'm sure
if somebody wouldn't like to have known. I think people
got hurt, you know. But yeah, but so so there
are things like that that worry should worry us.

Speaker 1 (01:24:13):
Wouldn't that be a fucking wouldn't that be just the
most ironic. We're like, we're, you know, the New Year
twenty twenty seven hits and a month later, you know,
we find out like, oh shit, we're gonna get smacked
by the by this.

Speaker 2 (01:24:29):
You know, if you if you believe that, then please
sell me your stocks a ten percent of value and
we'll be well.

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
No, the irony is if it really did happen, and
it was, you know what I mean, and all of
a sudden, we're just like, ah, fuck, maybe we shouldn't
have uh maybe you know, maybe we shouldn't have willed
this into existence.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
Well I mean look, I mean, oh please, I think
that's all nonsense. I mean, look, if there's advanced species
out there coming to visit. I mean, why would you
come and just roy like the ants, you know, I
find it just phenomenally yeah, you know looks so you know,
if there's something, I mean, there could always be a
meteor comment, you know, whatever. These things are flying around.

(01:25:10):
We found one traversy and recently through the solar system
quite large. I don't think, you know, it's not coming
our way, but I mean I think there's a you know,
I think what's going on here is the psychology of
people want some doom to energate, you know, enervate them
and so on. But but you know, that's my hypothesis.

(01:25:33):
I don't see any reason to panic about anything. I
think these are just the rumor mill. And you know
they've always tried, you know, these lunatics online try to
malign me. They want me to stay quiet, but I've
you know, and honestly it's only because I've honored lou
who generally turns the other cheek, never says anything negative

(01:25:53):
about anyone. Even with Luna, he was quite respectful and
wanted to make peace, and he was just saying, look,
here's the truth he inadvertently released. But that's public stuff anyway,
it's silly, but but there is no piece to be had,
and uh because not at least at least I don't
see any indications from Representative Luna that she wants to

(01:26:18):
actually communicate directly. She's always like, my phone number is there?
It's like what I mean? I mean what you have?
You can get loose phone number in ten seconds, right?
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:26:30):
Well, I think there are bad actors in Congress because
I know that after the November hearing, I walked I
specifically walked one of the nuclear witnesses, Bob Sallie. I
walked him into Nancy Mays's office, who chaired that very
hearing that we both sat through, and she I have

(01:26:54):
her on camera saying that she was going to fight
for a UFO and nukes hearing, and the next week,
literally the next week, she's battling the trans community and
loses all credibility with normal people because no one wants

(01:27:15):
to engage her now. But I think that she was
I think that that hearing was a way to gather
certain it was a way to red team certain people.

Speaker 2 (01:27:26):
Look, I don't know about that. You're welcome to have it.
I don't have any opinion about Mace I don't, and
that's fine. I mean, I you know, it's a mixed
issue on that. But all I can say is, you know,
the reality is is that lou is a good person,

(01:27:47):
happy to work with whoever wants to work with him.
You have to just be reasonable, provide regular notice. You know,
I suspect it, certainly. I would love is, you know,
him to be compensated at least for his expenses. But
you know he's eaten it before, as you can eat
it again, you know. But because he doesn't get a
congressional stipend to travel and live and all that crap,
go back and forth from Florida and cause chaos. But

(01:28:10):
I'm not here to roll over and say, uh, you
know that this is that this is an equal Uh
you know that this is just a snafoo, and it's
a you know, equally wrong by both sides. This is
one hundred percent wrong by Luna. She's in temperate, she
slams everybody. Her brand is to make everybody terrible, to

(01:28:31):
show herself with guns. It's just it is, it is
really unfortunate. And it's not because I hate Republicans. I'm
kind of a probably a Reagan Republican. I don't know
if there's probably seven of us left in the country. Yeah,
you know, so, uh you know. I I don't love

(01:28:51):
the Democrats and a lot of their policies, although I
do like some of them, of course. And but but regardless,
this has been a She is responsible. She has to
take responsibility. She's the head of the task force forever,
long of that lasts. And I to threaten a witness
with a subpoena, first of all, it's no threat. She

(01:29:12):
won't And I think she has very limited chances of
ascertaining anything because she is so she comes with such
bad will you know when you when you when you
bring people into a meeting, you don't threaten them to
bring them in. Do you understand this? I mean, does
nobody get it? You don't lambass people when you want
their cooperation. I no longer I don't care about Luna's

(01:29:36):
cooperation or thoughts or beliefs or anything else. I'm not
afraid of her. I don't respect her. I don't like
what she's done, and I tell it to her face.
And if we're in a public hearing, she's got me
to deal with too. So, uh you know, the reality
of it is this is absolute insanity, and it really
begs the question of what the hell is going on?
You know, clearly there is some situation happening with UAP,

(01:30:00):
the UFOs, possibly at HI. There's some there there. I
am that I am with you, you know, by a preponderance
of the evidence, fifty one percent, maybe even seventy percent.
All right, I'm with this idea that there's an investigation
that needs to be had, but it can't be with
these incompetent people, and Dave Grush is not one of

(01:30:22):
the people. I am sorry, Get lawyers, get assistant US attorneys,
get real attorneys to pursue and get subpoenas issued, and
hold a kind of a church commission or something where
where they can investigate the truth. It's not that I
don't think Dave Grush has told important truths, but my
experience with him behind the scenes has been very negative.

(01:30:45):
And I made that very clear, very clear. Don't ever
ever try to mess with me, and my.

Speaker 3 (01:30:55):
Client understood, understood.

Speaker 1 (01:30:57):
Yeah no, And I think that's I think, at least
the way you know you represent you, I think it's
I think you're you're you're.

Speaker 3 (01:31:08):
There's a big battle there. It's not a big battle.

Speaker 1 (01:31:10):
But it's a big it's it's it is a big
task to come into this and kind of be exposed
to all of it at hot at the one of
the highest levels. Again, he is a very well known person.
Do you remember do you remember I'm not sure if
he like if he filled you in on some of

(01:31:30):
the the post twenty seventeen stuff, but do you remember
to the Stars Academy?

Speaker 2 (01:31:37):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (01:31:37):
Okay, so I got a viewer not a viewer question,
but a viewer question. But in twenty seventeen, uh, Tom
DeLong stood on stage and said, we are going to
be building one of these things to entice investors. You know,

(01:31:59):
mister Ella's was a member of this organization. I'm not
saying that he is responsible. Have they encountered any issues
with the SEC about an effort like this? And what
does what do you think about the claims that this
was more of a techno scam.

Speaker 2 (01:32:20):
I have no opinion upond to the Stars Academy. I
don't know about their financial you know, whatever was going on,
I know I will say I Lou you know, left
became a part of that moved. His tenure there was
cut short. He suffered greatly. I don't think intentionally and

(01:32:41):
I don't know, but it was not a positive experience.
I mean, I don't think it was ultimately positive. Think
there were many good people. It just didn't work out.
And you know, that's all I know about it. I
don't know, you know, I've I've heard it. I was
watching somebody I don't recall who. It was a speech
by how put off somebody linked to it. I was like, okay,

(01:33:01):
you watch it. It was a it was okay, speech
about from twenty eighteen or something about the It mentioned
to the Stars Academy and some efforts that they were making.
I don't know what they're thinking was. I don't know
what it was about. I could just say that whatever
managerial fiduciary duties that were owed to that company and
its investors has zero to do with the Luella Zondo

(01:33:25):
so to that extent, I don't know. You know, he
was just an employee and you know, unfortunately when when
it collapsed, I think he suffered a lot. But other
than that, I don't really have any information.

Speaker 3 (01:33:39):
Okay of that.

Speaker 1 (01:33:40):
And then that's and that's absolutely fair. Beyond you know,
the legal and political battles. You know, what's the human
toll of working in the UFO disclosure space as an attorney,
and how is this journey affected you personally? What drives
you to keep pushing forward alongside LOO in such a

(01:34:00):
high stakes mission.

Speaker 2 (01:34:04):
I think that's I appreciate your question. I think that's
your characterization of it, and I understand why you frame
it that way. I'm a little different, you know. I'm
happy being an attorney, a litigator. I have investments, I
have properties, I have business partners wonderful. I have a
wonderful wife and family. I'm curious. I like to read.
I like to you know, do martial arts. You know

(01:34:25):
when I when my body allows it, I like, I
just want to kickboxing today. You know, got punched in
the face a couple of times. Yeah, so you know,
I love it. I'll watch the UFC tonight, you know,
and tough with them. You know, I'm gonna have fun.
I'm gonna go with Ddpchmives of Beast too. But I'm
gonna go, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:34:40):
But yeah, I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (01:34:43):
But but the bottom line is, no, there's so many
things to do in life. This is not my I
do not These UFO people all in some way see
themselves ending up is the architect of ufology or the
lawyer for ufology or this for that, I don't see
that at all. I think this is a government problem,

(01:35:04):
a scientific problem, a technical social problem, political problem, a
media problem. We need to approach it thoughtfully and resolve it.
So for me, you know, I'm going to go about
living my life. I'm happy to represent individuals as needed,
but I'm not going to compromise myself and my integrity
as an attorney as well as just as a human

(01:35:25):
being on the altar of aliens. If they want to
visit with me, I'm happy to do so. But the
only people, by the way, who bothered the hell out
of me in this field have been the people in it,
not the aliens. And you know, and to that extent,
I mean, you know, frankly, this is even though it

(01:35:47):
seems like the stakes are high, because you know, there's
an ontology and the science behind it that would have
tremendous implications for humanity. Again, I do not feel the
humans are particularly prepared. They're not good enough, I means,
are going to fix this. So I go back to
fix ourselves and learn the science and figure out what's
going on. It's pretty simple.

Speaker 1 (01:36:05):
Yeah, maybe instead of looking we need to start looking
in right.

Speaker 2 (01:36:10):
Look in, be a better person, tell the truth, Stop
letting the jackasses out their control. Who you talk to,
what your narrative is, what you say, Stop judging people
so quickly, Stop telling people that they're going to subpoena them,
you knit with, you know, just be a decent human being.
There are some decent human beings, but there's few and

(01:36:31):
far between, unfortunately, and there's a lot of people who
compromise their ethics and will not tell truth to power.
Despite being educated and having read all the right books,
they will not do so because fundamentally they want something
out of this, because they have some sort of hollow emptiness.
I come in with the full life, I leave with
the full life. So I'll represent the people who want

(01:36:52):
representation in whatever way. When there's an actual legal issue
in front of me, I'll attack it as I need to.
And to the sense that representative of Luna, you know,
has has has created a legal issue, well, she's going
to get one back. And I'm going to say, if
you're going to subpoena lou there are other people.

Speaker 1 (01:37:09):
To subpoena as well, like and you named so like
I said, let's go Jim Lekatski, who open I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:37:17):
By the way, the only reason I say James I
heard him on webinars, But I never aways like, why
isn't everybody like going, wait, hey, dude, come back, you
know get it's a poena Luna. Why don't you ask
the guy who said he went inside of there was
something about being inside of the UFO that.

Speaker 3 (01:37:33):
Somebody got I'm fucking talking about They're not.

Speaker 2 (01:37:37):
I have a plenty of other people I can point too,
but I don't know these people and what they did
and you know, in reality, and and what their roles are.
And uh, I'm sure there's bunches of people that would
be better, you know who where you could actually learn
information at an operational level. However, I think all of them,
if they are part of the national security in any way,
need to get clearance. And if not that you have

(01:37:58):
a you're going to have a battle between the Congress
and the executive. But you know, to Congress saying appropriately, hey,
we want these people to tell us their truth, the
executives saying no, that's executive privilege. The unitary executive don't
get to learn that, and then we have to have
that that that debate, and and and by the way,

(01:38:21):
I mean, you know, nobody holds Congress has done jack
Ship and Luna. You've done nothing except threating. Louel was
on it with the sub poenut, you know, I mean,
this is insane. How are we going to get to
the bottom of this? Use your power for good? This
is not the good. You've just decided to lambast somebody
because you were on Joe Rogan and poor Joe Rogan.
I mean, you know, he's got all his curiosities. You know,

(01:38:42):
he doesn't know and and he entertains these people, you know, and.

Speaker 1 (01:38:48):
Obviously she's easy on the eyes and definitely Congress favor it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:54):
You know, it really grosses me out when people are like,
oh god, you know, because I heard people say, oh,
she's so pretty, she's so pretty. I mean, was in
a room if there were people telling me how attractive
she was and she I'm sure she loves to hear it.

Speaker 1 (01:39:05):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
But you're not there as the maximum representative.

Speaker 3 (01:39:09):
Of You're there as the representative of Florida.

Speaker 2 (01:39:12):
Not right. You're there to be a decent human being
and stop stop punishing everybody who has a different view
of life. I don't agree with Biden particularly, or a
Hillary or I like Obama, but you know, I don't
agree with some of the dude with many of the
Democrat platforms, but I'm not going to impose upon them
some that they're terrible people. You know, maybe maybe they were.

(01:39:34):
There could be, you know, wrongs that were done, but
this is not the way to proceed, and not to
do it to people you're inviting to an event to
give you information to help you do whatever it is
you believe your job is. I don't know what she
thinks her job is. She's taking on a wide compass.
So far, I don't know that what she's resolved. Maybe
she has had some successes. I'm I'm not particularly I'm

(01:39:58):
not as fat. I like JFK's ideas and his speeches,
and you know, he's handsome and it was the Camelot
and all that. I love that, And if and if
he was assassinated by CIA or something like that, that's
extraordinarily unfortunate and important to the historical record. All that
said is true. But you know, the UAP issue to
me and the drone issue are right now and they've

(01:40:21):
been set on the back burner, and you've ambassador the
people who came willingly on their own dime, often to
to do the right thing for your own publicity benefit.
I will see you soon.

Speaker 3 (01:40:37):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:40:39):
One last thing, because I I, uh, we overshot the
time here, sure, but I'm having such a good time.

Speaker 3 (01:40:47):
I mean, you're this is wonderful.

Speaker 1 (01:40:49):
But you know, she she also made a claim and
I don't want to make this about Luna, I really don't,
but since it's here, I mean, she made a claim
about interdimensional beings in the same breath as this whole
skiff flute thing, and she said she has seen she
saw evidence that that suggested that these things are interdimensional.

(01:41:16):
If she has that kind of evidence somewhere, how do we,
the people or someone like yourself, who is you know,
biting at the champion, how do we get that stuff out?
I mean, you can't just go on an internationally syndicated,
the biggest podcast in the world and say you have
you've seen evidence of interdimensional beings that operate out of

(01:41:39):
outside of space in time and then just move on.
I mean, that's a fucking huge claim.

Speaker 2 (01:41:47):
Is there a way these interdimensional beings can take her
with them. You know. Look, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:41:58):
I would hate to be I would hate to be
an attorney fighting you in a courtroom.

Speaker 2 (01:42:08):
Generally speaking with the posing counsel. I'm very very polite,
and we try to work together when I can, if
they're reasonable. That's the best way to do it. And
we're here to fight for truth, not for just fighting
for our egos or whatever it happens to be. There's
a bit of that, of course, but that's not why. Look,
I don't know what she's talking about interdimensional beings. I
don't think she could, you know, I don't. I have

(01:42:29):
no interest. I mean, that's an interesting idea. She's prone
to provocative claims. She finds herself as an attention seeking person.
Whatever evidence. I mean. That rule to require is you know,
some significant understanding. I have no all knowledge of that.
If there are interdimensional beings, I don't know really what
good that does it. I'm not you know, I've only exist,

(01:42:50):
you know, I exist in the four dimensions right now,
and that's it. So that's all that I know. Not
against the possibility, and it's very interesting, but I do
not try her to transmit, you know, whether there were
jelly beans and a jelly you know, in a jar.
You know, I have no interest in what she has
to say. I don't believe any of it. Wherever her
sources are probably in an office next door or something,

(01:43:14):
who knows, and I have just no I just I
just can't take her seriously. Again, she could have a
secret for all the UFOs, you know, somewhere in Florida.
There's a lot of weird people there. But you know,
but I don't accredit that with anything. You know, It's
funny because you know, in the UFO world, they're like,
oh God, don't piss her off. Don't piss her off.
It's like, you guys have no standards. You're willing to

(01:43:37):
let yourselves go to compromise any principle you're afraid, and
it's it's it's it's ridiculous. And because she's attractive, or
because she's outspoken, or because she's on your side.

Speaker 1 (01:43:48):
I will say that I do. I do agree with
you there. You know, for for ninety plus years, the
government was the enemy, let's say, quote unquote, and now
all of a sudden, you know, we we have a
couple representatives, a couple senators, a couple people in government

(01:44:11):
that are showing interests, and now all of a sudden
we hang on their every breadth, their every word. When
it's the same government, it's the same.

Speaker 2 (01:44:21):
Look bird, look. Look. First of all, Eric Burlston is
a gentleman and a nice person. He's tried to mediate this,
and to his credit, I'm glad for that. I don't
think it'll work good. But he's a great guy. Timber Chat,
I think as well. So you know, he's interested in this.
It seems like from his heart, you know, that's where
this interest comes from. I believe mister Garcia. I've never

(01:44:41):
represented Garcia, I've never met him, but I believe I've
heard good things that he's you know, has good intentions.
You know. There are senators too. Booker I think is
interested in some ways. Certainly it's a state, you know,
New Jersey. I don't know, you know, I wish. I
think there's a degree of real interest. But the politicians
don't have to be our enemies. But neither should we.

(01:45:02):
You know, count how to them and kneel before them
as if they're just all powerful. And the people who
are part of the orbs as I will call them,
are constantly using their proximity without being lobby ast somehow
to Congress people to secure notoriety funding whatever. Well, sorry,
there's a degree to which that does seem like drifting, okay,

(01:45:26):
and yeah, yeah, so no, I do think that there
needs to be an organization to effectively lobby. And I
think lobbying is when it's registered and appropriate, correct, so
that you know, so that Congress becomes informed and interested.
I'm not against any of them, but the representatives serve us.

(01:45:46):
Stop being so weak that you you know, get a
broader constituency, do the poor go talk to other representatives
who are curious about this from a religious perspective, a
personal perspective. You know, there's five hundred and thirty five
of them. I'm sure some of them have been abducted
by aliens but won't say it or whatever, you know
what I mean, like like, there's got to be somebody
out there. You know, we need better people and more

(01:46:07):
of them, and it needs to be bipartisan. It can't
be continually with just the Republicans. They haven't been successful.
They can't find Epstein's murder, you know, despite whatever I mean,
they can't find his collaborators. They can't do you know. Look,
I mean it's all nonsense, so correctly, Yeah, they need
to get by. The ufology needs a broader set of

(01:46:28):
representatives and senators who are interested in it. I don't
believe that the UAP Disclosure Act, you know that everybody's like,
oh gosh, you got to support it, you got to
support it. I talked to people who are like, you
got to support it. Him like who wrote it? They're like,
we have no idea it was call him now with
some help from who knows who? And you know, and
he's been operating behind the scenes. I see guy that

(01:46:51):
he is. He's I had a terrible set of experiences
with him.

Speaker 1 (01:46:55):
I was going to say, do you think this is
he's problematics.

Speaker 2 (01:47:01):
I absolutely think he's problematic and.

Speaker 3 (01:47:04):
The topic where it's going or you.

Speaker 2 (01:47:06):
Know, he's a very intelligent person, right, and so I
hold you, if you're intelligent like that to a higher
not lower standard. Okay, you have a better standard. And
unfortunately I think he's you know, I don't know why.
For example, you know, rather than saying, let's as a

(01:47:29):
community look at legislation, and first of all, there should
be investigation before legislation, and we haven't even done any investigation.
They've not issued one suboena in Congress except for Louelli
Zonda apparently, and then they're going in passing legislation. Are
you insane? Right? Don't do that. There should be a
public and community investigation prior to passing legislation that is

(01:47:53):
appropriate to what is discovered according to the facts. This
is government one oh one, unless yes, you have private
interests guiding themselves to some nirvana which you know, please support,
please support, support. No, it should be public, The drafting
should be public, the people should be public, the upologies community.

(01:48:17):
We should say we collaborate together on a piece of
legislation that we think will hit the low hanging fruit
and gives us the best chance of either having people
who are whistleblowers or what do you want to call them,
or government people or non government people be securing their property,
provide testimony under oath, and help us determine and also
fund the science to see if there are things that

(01:48:38):
have been excluded. You know, I'm you know from our understanding,
whether in physics or astronomy, it doesn't mean this is
what should happen, and it should be done openly, but
not in secret five oh one C three, sending memos
back and forth. I have seen them, so that you
can sneak in the door and then go tell a congressman,

(01:49:01):
just put this in, you know, and do this. And
they don't know the topic, they don't have the legislative
staff who are familiar with it, so they're just they're like,
who's this? What's this? Okay? Yeah, drones? Sure you know.
Now this isn't exactly the wrong way to do things,
informed and educated and open, you know, why are we
a try? Why do you? Why do you and I'm

(01:49:23):
telling you I've seen this so many times? Why do
you allow you? Demand government transparency, Demand that the government
tell you about your UFO? Where are the aliens? Who
knows what? And then the process to do that is hidden?
It is absurd. Bring it to the community forefront. Bring

(01:49:44):
it draft legislation together in a a in a congress,
you know, in a like a constitutional congress, we'll call
it a constitutional UFO congress, where legislation is proposed, voted upon, suggested,
And then you take it as a community and you say, Congress,
this is what we're looking to do. Would you do it? Instead?
It's drafted behind the scenes by people with selfish interests

(01:50:06):
aligned to take through eminent domain. Perhaps at least some
people fear their property and their understanding and what they've
worked towards.

Speaker 1 (01:50:14):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:50:15):
And plus the government, if there were UFOs, has every
right to day to walk in and take it. It's
not for absence of legislation, it's absence for willpower. So
I'm telling you my truth as I understand it. I
could be wrong. If you've change, I'm willing to change
my mind. But I do not see goodwill.

Speaker 3 (01:50:33):
Have you seen?

Speaker 1 (01:50:35):
Were you in attendance at south By Southwest for that?

Speaker 3 (01:50:39):
The screening of I was not? No no, So you
didn't see the film yet?

Speaker 2 (01:50:44):
No, no, no, But the trailer was really phenomenal.

Speaker 3 (01:50:46):
Yeah, I was gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:50:48):
I haven't saying it either, but I know that people
are talking about it and saying that, you know, it
could bring a general public uh like fever pitch, you know,
and generate interests and listen.

Speaker 3 (01:51:08):
I hope it.

Speaker 1 (01:51:09):
I hope it does, but it's also calling for that
mass amnesty, and I.

Speaker 3 (01:51:14):
Just don't think that that's the way to go.

Speaker 2 (01:51:16):
I'm sorry, I've not seen the movie, so I don't
know that it makes it all. Yeah, you know, I
just saw the trailer and thought it was really cool.

Speaker 3 (01:51:23):
Yeah, no, it does look good.

Speaker 2 (01:51:25):
Aside from being night for the trailer, that's it. You know,
I'm looking at when it gets out awesome. And I
do think it could make a really big impact. You know,
it's rare that a documentary really loves the needle in
the popular culture. But there were some like bullying for Columbine,
I think, and uh, you know Faarnheit and like there
were some in the past and this could do the same.

(01:51:46):
And I'm you know, I think we need more media.
You know, I'm a big fan. I mean, it's that
kind of silly. But you know, I've been watching The
Resident Alien.

Speaker 1 (01:51:54):
Sh I literally just watched the last episode of season four.

Speaker 2 (01:52:00):
Are the only person the people who I like. I
like the actor Alan whatever, the main act alien. The alien.

Speaker 3 (01:52:07):
So good.

Speaker 2 (01:52:08):
Yeah, he's super awesome. And then the sheriff is fun.
And the other sheriff that have a female character. There's
two people, they're all they're all cool. It's so much
a fan and other great actors because they make me
believe it, you know, but of some of the whininess
on the show. But de bite that it's a wonderful
show and it's fun, and so more media, you know,

(01:52:29):
whether it's science fiction, more books and more science itself, right,
and more consideration and more respect should be accorded. You
can't just dismiss things. Not everybody could be telling a
lie and creating confabulations. People might be mistaken. It's possible
on things, but overall, I think the body of evidence
says we should take this seriously. The problem is is

(01:52:49):
we're stuck with the stigma, which has probably been engineered
to a large extent. There's also most of us have
not had personal experience with alien I never worry about
being acted. I hope they do at some point take
me because I can't stand all these people here, and
everybody says, oh god, it could be terrible. It's like
nothing could be worse than what I see with people.

(01:53:10):
So I say the Bay basis like literal people's problems.
So I'm very positive towards I personally. You know, if
there is intelligent life and it's come to visit us,
I do hope we you know, I don't know how
they would communicate with us, because you know, it's hard
to understand the mind of something else. But whatever it is,
I think it's interesting and I think we should be

(01:53:32):
positive towards it. And I'm not saying it's all good.
I don't know. You know, they could come here and
you know, want to turn us into a parking lot,
like you know, Douglas Adams and the hitchhikers or whatever
it was. I forget what it was, but you know,
they could be wanting to do something weird. But I
personally don't see it. I'm a fan of the optimism,
and I think we can fix our political institutions. But

(01:53:54):
the internal deceit and corruptions and coercion and all this
garbage for such an abstract topic is bizarre to me.
And we should just get to nuts and bolts, treat
each other recently well, do things collaboratively. Maybe have that
Constitutional Congress for some bill that could be presented. You know,
there's also uh Sehn Munger, a lawyer. He had the

(01:54:18):
oh gosh, the Registrate Registry Act, and I thought that
was good. I'm open to that as an idea, but
people have suppressed it, by the way. They've totally told
you know, I'll just say people suppress it even you know,
they try to you know, they just they can't can't
help but but but want to please certain people or
be afraid of certain people, and that's why that those

(01:54:39):
other alternative voices get suppressed. It's disgusting. I find it
reprehensible if so.

Speaker 1 (01:54:47):
Like what we'll end here. But and I really again,
I thank you for time. And you know i'd love
to have I'd fly Lou here to bost.

Speaker 2 (01:54:56):
Sorry, buddy, I you know you could. No, every everybody
wants to go.

Speaker 1 (01:55:02):
Yeah, not asking you, I'm saying, unlike Congress, I would,
I would pay for his expenses.

Speaker 3 (01:55:10):
So Lou, if you do see this, I'd love that.
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:55:12):
I don't think what's preventing him from going from Congress
is you know a t I don't. I'm just saying,
you know, and I appreciate you offering to to to
host him. A very generous person with his time and and.

Speaker 3 (01:55:25):
Uh yeah, I really liked his UH.

Speaker 1 (01:55:29):
I think that's the last conversation I watched of his
UH was when he did Chris Ramsey.

Speaker 3 (01:55:33):
I thought it was really well done and really really fun.

Speaker 1 (01:55:36):
But so if if if if there's a whistleblower out there,
if there's someone who's worked in some sort of legacy
program and they they want to be represented by someone
who's going to have their best interest at heart. Uh
would you be at there? You know, would you take

(01:55:58):
their case? Would you take them on?

Speaker 2 (01:56:01):
I mean, I don't know, because I would have to
evaluate it. You know, I only have so much time.
But not just that, you know, you have to have both,
you know. I believe in disclosure as a whole, and
so I do think that anybody, you know, I'd have
to find somebody whose interest is obviously towards disclosure. That said,
I would imagine that I would also want people who

(01:56:24):
have a respect for any security that might be associated,
you know. I mean, if you want to run to
you know, Russia and disclose there, I'm not going to
help you commit any kind of crime, and you know,
and I'm going to protect you and your personal issue
interest rather. But yes, I mean, if people feel that
they need legal representation, whether for myself or certainly from

(01:56:45):
other people, go get it. And you know, and if
you think you can't afford it, well I am pro
bono and always happy to do that kind of thing.
And I've talked to many people in the community and
not in often sometimes in you know, legal ways, sometimes not,
but you know, I'm always happy to help. So, you know,

(01:57:05):
for people who are who really feel they're in a bind,
and I've talked to some and I've helped them as
i can. I don't think the threat is from death threats.
I don't think the threat is from legal prescriptions. Although
those with commitments to the government should take them seriously,
because like you should take any promise seriously. You know,

(01:57:26):
even if you disagree with it, you have to take
it seriously, and then you deal with it through the
proper channels, and then you attend to things. This is
the way a system is designed to work. Going around
the system to fix it breaks the system. It is
the problem. So unfortunately, Congress right now is the red block.
It's part of the system that has inhibited this or
at least not taking it as seriously as it could.

(01:57:47):
But you can see why. So as long as you're
coming in good faith and you want to do something positive,
and you really have a legal issue, and you can
tolerate the fact that you know, I'm not everybody's cup
of tea over my client. I'm going to go and
help you up to what you want. But once it

(01:58:08):
crosses a line. I do take this as you know,
I take my role as a lawyer seriously. I'm not
a public spokesperson. I don't speak for Loue Alizondo. I
don't necessarily agree with him on everything under the sun.
He likes one things I like different. You know, he's
a good person. I don't want. I am not. I
am not a puppet or a spokesperson, and I don't

(01:58:29):
care to be associated with people because they're UFO glitterati.
I just don't give a damn about that. So I'm
here to do legal work when and where necessary in
limited moments, and you know, that's it. So, you know,
unfortunately I've been called back up. I feel like you
know the movies where you know the ex soldier you know,

(01:58:52):
is like in a cabin in the woods, and then
all of a sudden the car drives up and it's
like you got to come back, you know, Zach, and
you know, help with this nonsense. I'm like, how did
this even happen? So fucking crazy, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:59:08):
How did I end up here?

Speaker 2 (01:59:10):
How did I end up back? Looking? Hear the people
you know, like you guys are insane and and it's
just such a but it does explain the state of
our country almost in some respects if we can't with
such a weird issue, frankly, for the average person proceed
in a thoughtful, kind, deliberative, open, positive way and instead

(01:59:32):
choose and again, you know, I'm not gonna be that way.
If you know, if they're not gonna be that way,
they're gonna get mean Ivan. And now they're getting mean
Ivan and it's not gonna it's not gonna be nice.

Speaker 1 (01:59:46):
Uh oh so yeah, so I uh wow, this was
This was a very very, very fun conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:59:52):
I really want to say thank you for doing it.
Thank you for clearing up some of that stuff. I'd
love to love to talk in.

Speaker 1 (01:59:59):
The future about, you know, some geo more maybe more
geopolitical stuff.

Speaker 3 (02:00:03):
And sure I broaden our horizon here.

Speaker 1 (02:00:06):
Sure you know where where could people find uh what
the what the latest is on on Ivan?

Speaker 2 (02:00:12):
And look, I'm always I'm on Twitter and I even
handled ESQ. Some lunatics I don't know who they were,
took my old one, which is I've an underscore handle.
I don't care though, I mean, you know, if this
one goes down, I'll do another one. It's like this.
You know, I don't know who took it down. I
don't really care. I'll just start a new one.

Speaker 1 (02:00:30):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:00:31):
I tweet a lot about different thoughts, and sometimes they're
funny and sometimes they're silly, and sometimes they're about law,
and sometimes they're about this stupidity. But no, I really
just leave you. I'll please you. Also, you know, I
have an email I even handle e s Q at
proton dot emmy or whatever that you can reach me
out if you have a real thing. But please don't
email me like is there an apocalypse and pending? You know,

(02:00:54):
are you a lizard? You morons? I don't have time
for that, you dummies.

Speaker 3 (02:00:59):
And if I was a lizard, I'm not going to
tell you on it evil.

Speaker 2 (02:01:03):
Oh no, no, no, I'm like, oh no, I would definitely
tell you. I would definitely tell you because I'm very
direct and transparent. Maybe you know, at fifty four, I'm
not here. I'm not pining to be somebody else. I
am who I am, flaws, good things, bad things, and
so you get what you get. And yeah, you know,

(02:01:25):
so you can reach out to me. And you know,
I tweet about people, people say things. Please what one
thing that's annoying for the ex people, Twitter people, whatever
you call because when you just say something stupid like
short and stupid like Lou suck. So I hate them.
It's like, this is not your personal therapy session, you morons,
like you know, I'm not your I'm not your therapist.
I don't want to hear what you think of Lou,

(02:01:46):
what you think of this, what you think of me,
Like it's annoying. I just have to then, do you know.
I just look past it. And I don't block people
usually unless they start dominating the conversation in an appropriate way.
But I'll block people if I have to do. I
just don't like to. It's not my principle. I have
a principle of open discussion, just like I'm doing here
when other people would not. But but you know, so,

(02:02:09):
so talk to me if you want, if you have
something interesting. I don't have the time to look at everything,
but I will say, you know, I found interesting things,
interesting articles, videos, nice people, nice comments. There was great
people in the community. And I really hope the scientific
types still continue despite the consternations of this to to
to do their best. So I hope the science goes on.
I hope we can reframe the politics to one of

(02:02:30):
coordination decency. I don't believe it's likely. Frankly, knowing the players,
knowing the knowing the politicians, at least some of them.
I think we're And the sad part is, honestly, by
having you know, not done the right thing for lou
and you know him sort of going off into the wilderness.

(02:02:52):
You know it gonna have it's gonna be tougher than
it would before. He's a great voice for the community,
for the public at least. Granted, you get things wrong,
yes so do I, so do we all. But but
he brought attention to an issue that took seven years
to get to Congress. And unfortunately he's not had you know,
much of you know, other other people, and there really

(02:03:15):
disturbing and strange ways and one a couple of one
of the last points, I'll go find people a decent character,
and it's not just their public character. What you hear,
you know, what you actually know. If you know I've
had personal experiences with people. I don't base this on supposition.
I've had personal experiences. So what I'm saying I don't
like somebody, it's probably a damn good personal reason. For it.

Speaker 1 (02:03:39):
Bear that in mind, right right, Yeah, no, as as
I would expect. You know, I really really want to
say thank you again for doing this, like.

Speaker 2 (02:03:49):
Thank you so much. Appreciate it, have your audience, have
a great weekend with the left of it. For me,
it's probably just work, but I appreciate you all. And
you know, please please do good in your world, whether
the el enter here or not. You know, whether it's
taking your kids out, watching a great movie, treating yourself
to something and taking a walk, doing the thing you
were supposed to do, reading something new.

Speaker 1 (02:04:09):
Just don't sit on X all day in spaces and
talk about It's.

Speaker 2 (02:04:13):
Hard not to get it's hard not to get into
it and be you know, oh god, this person bad
and these perp. But I talked to most I talk
to most people. Most people, even the bad people in
the community, the evildoers, I'll still talk to them sometimes
to hear their thinking. And you know, I say, look,
I'm just extraordinarily transparent. And people don't like that because
they want to be all secret inside guru people. And

(02:04:35):
you can just go fuck off.

Speaker 1 (02:04:37):
You know.

Speaker 3 (02:04:37):
Everyone wants to be the quarterback.

Speaker 2 (02:04:39):
And I'm not. I'm not interested in being a quarterback.
I'm not even necessarily interested in being on the team.
I'm interested in doing good work, and I wish everybody
luck in this journey towards whatever is up there here
in the spaces, in the interdimensional spaces of Luna's head.

Speaker 3 (02:04:56):
One last one. I love it. I love it.

Speaker 1 (02:04:59):
Thank you, I thank you so much for vieeir Man,
thank so. All right, So with everyone else, guys, make
sure if you're watching, like share subscribe. It really does
help the channel and it helps with what we do
here getting seen by a broader audience. I never ask
I don't sell merchandise or anything like that, so that's

(02:05:21):
all we ask for is like share, subscribe, And if
you're listening in the future on one of the great
podcast platforms, follow the show and leave a review. It's
free and it takes twenty seconds. All right, we'll see
you next time. Oh oh, I have a great conversation
coming out with riswan Furk. Edited by Cari Kyrie Lindsay.

(02:05:44):
It is fucking It plays like a movie from what
I've seen, and I can't wait for that to come out.
It's the first episode in studio with a guest, so
should be fun.

Speaker 3 (02:05:55):
All right, see you next time. I think everything at
everything today not to take I have to.

Speaker 1 (02:06:05):
I think the conting that thing, and then I thin

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