UFOs Shut Down U.S Nuclear Missiles— Full Story from Robert Salas & Dave Schindele!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
H m hm.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
So we are going to start Welcome to Total Disclosure,
where we go beyond the veil of secrecy and into
the heart of the unexplained. Today we're honored to speak
with two retired Air Force officers whose experiences have become
central to the UFO and the UAP discussion. Captain Robert Salas,

(01:05):
stationed at Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana, Captain Dave
Chandell Shindley.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Station at Forget, the first E. Shin Now.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Station Air Force Base in North Dakota, where both were
entrusted with the control of nuclear missiles during the height
of the Cold War in the late nineteen sixties. Each
of these men were a part of something extraordinary, something
that not only challenged their understanding of reality, but also
left a profound mark on our nation's military history. Their

(01:47):
stories involved unidentified flying objects, sudden missile shutdowns, and a
wall of secretcy that has persisted for over five decades. Today,
delve into their experiences, the implication for national security, and
what these events could mean for humanity's future. This is

(02:08):
not science fiction. This is total disclosure. So I just
want each of you to briefly introduce your role and
responsibilities during your time in the Air Force, so we
could start with Captain Salas.

Speaker 4 (02:23):
Thank you, Tyler. I was stationed at mels From Air
Force Base starting in the summer of nineteen sixty six,
and after getting qualified as a two man crew, Colonel
Fred Mywold and I were crued up and assigned to
the four Missile squad four Nities Missial SQUADN and our

(02:50):
normal station was OSCAR Flight, which is the location of
what we called a launch control center or launch control facility,
and that facility was an underground capsule sixty feet underground
where we would spend a twenty four hour period on

(03:12):
alert status, meaning ready to launch missiles if given the
proper command.

Speaker 5 (03:21):
So if the President called in order to strike, you
were one of the men who.

Speaker 6 (03:26):
Would actually launch the missiles. Wow, that's correct.

Speaker 4 (03:31):
So on this one evening, March twenty fourth, nineteen sixty seven,
my commander was taking a rest break. We had a
little cat down there, and since one of us had
to be on alert at all times, he was taking
a rest break. I was in charge of the facility

(03:51):
and I remember getting a phone call from the upstairs
what we called a flight security controller who controlled the
security teams, security alert teams or SAT teams we call them,
that would respond to any security concerns. Right at any rate,

(04:14):
I get this call and he gives me this strange
commentary of he and the other guards looking at the
night sky was evening and seeing lights flying flying above us,
above our facility in a strange manner. They would be

(04:39):
going very fast, They heard no engine noise, They were
able to stop in mid air and reverse course. They
were able to make ninety degree turns. May sound familiar
from other reports. At any rate, he said, sir, these

(04:59):
are not aircraft. They're not aircraft. They don't behave like aircraft.
And he kept repeating that, and finally I said, you
mean like UFOs, because we had indeed seeing reports in
the local newspaper of people reporting UFO sightings in Great Falls, Montana,

(05:23):
where we lived. I was just joking, but he wasn't.
He was very serious about this report. He was a
bit concerned because of these lines didn't seem to go away,
they were just flying above them. And I said, okay,
let me know if something more interesting happens. Basically hung up,

(05:47):
but I took it as a serious call. It was
not a joke. So five minutes later he calls back,
and this time I can tell by his voice that
he's extremely frightened. He's shouting into the phone, he's babbling,
making no sense. I had to calm him down, and

(06:09):
when I was able to do that, he told me
that he had all the guards with their weapons drawn,
looking at this red orange light, a very bright light,
a large light, and at times it was pulsate. But

(06:33):
he said it's hovering above the front gate, and he
wanted me to tell him what to do. Of course,
I was no protocol. I was as shocked as he was.
But when he said that, I had no idea what
to tell him. But I did say, you know, ensure

(06:55):
the security of the facility. Really, that's what means. Any
means that's their duty, that's their job, not to allow,
not to allow anyone in that fenced area. I knew,
whatever you have to do, that's what I told him.
Then he said one of the guards got injured, and

(07:18):
he hung up the phone. I went over to talk
to my commander then, who was just getting up from
his rest break, just about to tell him about the
phone calls. When we get a large sounding clackes and
noise in the capsule, and that we know what that meant.
It meant that there was a problem with one of

(07:41):
the missiles. So we look over at our panel that
has the status of the missiles green for ready, ready
to launch and red.

Speaker 6 (07:51):
For can't launch, no GOAT. So one of them had turned.

Speaker 4 (07:58):
Red, and very quickly after that, all the rest of
them went down.

Speaker 5 (08:05):
I want to make a point here because most people
watching they don't understand this aspect of it.

Speaker 7 (08:13):
Now, each of these missiles.

Speaker 5 (08:15):
They are analog, not analog, but they aren't tied to
each other.

Speaker 7 (08:21):
Therefore, if one goes down, they're not all going to do.

Speaker 6 (08:23):
That's correct.

Speaker 8 (08:24):
It is simultaneously shut down up to twelve missiles, ten missiles.
You're shutting down one by one, you're not shutting one.

Speaker 7 (08:36):
That's correct, and it all goes down.

Speaker 6 (08:38):
That's correct.

Speaker 8 (08:39):
So how calm had this ever happened before?

Speaker 6 (08:42):
No?

Speaker 4 (08:43):
I was stationed there for three years as a missile
launch officer, and before that happened, I think I had
once seen a missile go read no go, but it
was due to another issue, but never multiple.

Speaker 7 (09:02):
Okay, So what become what?

Speaker 9 (09:06):
What becomes the protocol at that point because you're there's
no textbook anymore, the textbook you had learned for protocols
and how to handle these kind of things.

Speaker 7 (09:17):
I mean, we're past that now, this is uncharted territory.
So what was your next one?

Speaker 4 (09:22):
Well, our next move was to querate the system. We
had something called vers I don't want not sure what
that means, but we were able to push a button
and it would give us an audio report on possible
failure mode. Okay, And in this case, and in each

(09:46):
of those ten missiles, we got the same report and
it was channels nine and twelve guidance and control system failure.
So that meant the guidance system was inoperative or not
working properly. Therefore, we couldn't proper We couldn't properly launch

(10:11):
missiles because they would have no valid information on the
targeting or how to guide themselves towards the target. Right,
we had an inertial guidance system. In other words, there
was no connection with some satellite that would help navigate

(10:32):
after launch. It had to do the calculation in flight
flight to make sure it was on target.

Speaker 7 (10:42):
So essentially, if anything happens, it's able to of course.

Speaker 6 (10:47):
Correct to some extent, and those are.

Speaker 7 (10:51):
The aspects that are being tampered with specifically.

Speaker 6 (10:55):
Yes, guidance in control.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
That's really specific, well.

Speaker 4 (11:03):
Not specific, but at least the general idea was the
guidance system was not operating properly, and that's why it
shut down.

Speaker 8 (11:12):
So if the president had called that your facility and
said we need to launch right now, right now.

Speaker 7 (11:20):
Could you have done it?

Speaker 6 (11:21):
No? No?

Speaker 8 (11:22):
Now do you would you consider that a threat to
national security?

Speaker 6 (11:27):
Well, it's certainly.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
We were debilitated or we were unable to perform our
function if you want to consider that a threat. But technically, yes, right,
we lost that capability. So but that's not the conclusion
I finally came to, and we can go into that later.

Speaker 6 (11:54):
But so the.

Speaker 4 (11:57):
Next thing we did, because we had two of the
launch facilities or the missiles had incursion lights. We had
lights that would are indicative of possibility that someone or
something or some thing was entering the launch facility where

(12:23):
the missiles were actually located. They were about a mile
or two or three away from where we were located.
The missiles were not right next to us another right,
they're dispersed.

Speaker 6 (12:37):
All over it an odd ring around us.

Speaker 4 (12:40):
Right, So I had to call upstairs and ask the
flatsherity to send teams out to those sites and check
on whether or not someone had entered that area. And
when they got out there, they saw these UFOs or

(13:03):
objects or bright lights hovering just above those facilities.

Speaker 9 (13:09):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (13:10):
And they were so frightened from the experience of the
first one that they saw that they didn't want to.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Go any further.

Speaker 4 (13:18):
I wouldn't either, and so that we were. They were
brought back, and in that process they lost radio contact
with us UH for some reason.

Speaker 6 (13:31):
At any rate, and.

Speaker 5 (13:32):
At any rate, I want to ask you this, You
did not know at the time when your event happens
that this is This may seem strange and it may
seem odd, but it's not.

Speaker 7 (13:49):
You're not the only nuclear facility that has this happened
that in that that form. There's other people that are
having similar experiences. But you guys are talking about it.

Speaker 4 (14:02):
Okay, So let me just continue with what happened next.
My commander called the wing command post at Maelstrom, which
monitored activities throughout the field of missiles, and reported our incident,

(14:22):
and they told him the same thing happened another launch
control center. And that's what he told me. When he
was finished with his phone call, he turned to me
and said the same thing happened at another site, and
I thought, you know, we're having this problem all over

(14:43):
the place and that evening. But I was labor later
able to realize that it happened. What he was referring
to was the Echo flight incident, which happened eight days
before our We had never been briefed on, by the way,

(15:04):
to answer your question, we were never told that there
had been previous incidents like ours with an object shutting
down missiles. That was, we were never briefed on something
like that. Absolutely, we should have.

Speaker 7 (15:21):
The lookout for these orange lights that can shut down
our new weapons.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
Of course, perhaps, yeah, so.

Speaker 7 (15:27):
I didn't know that. I did not know that that night.
Maybe I just glazed over that detail. I didn't know
that that night they had said this has happened before.

Speaker 6 (15:38):
That's what they told my commander.

Speaker 7 (15:40):
Okay, so when do you find out about Dave.

Speaker 4 (15:46):
Dave came forward all let hit him explain when he
did that, and then we made contact and talked and
he's he's come and tested fought with us at the
Press Club National Press Club in Washington. D c and

(16:07):
at other times. In twenty thirteen, I think he was
also there at the mock hearing that we had to
Steve Bassett set up.

Speaker 10 (16:19):
Yeah, really so, Dave, can you can you tell me
what happened with you and how did you fit into
the the overall narrative.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
What I can tell you is that I was involved
with an incident, and I'll get into that a little
bit later, but first I wanted to describe a little
bit like sallasted regarding the layout of the facilities at
Minor Air Force Base. We had fifteen launch control centers

(16:52):
and one hundred and fifty nuclear tip missiles all together ICBMs,
and they were spread, uh probably fifty to seventy five
miles around the town of Minor at North Dakota. And
they still exist and they're still being manned today. Those
launch control centers launch control facilities, we call them facilities

(17:17):
for that the building's top side and LCCs our launch
control centers down below sixty feet below those buildings, and
each one of those launch control facilities, our launch control
centers were named with alphabet identifications from Alpha flight to

(17:44):
Oscar flight. And I was mostly involved with Kiyo Lima
MIC and November flights, and my normal normal duty station
was MIC flight. Well I listed I told you about
five flights that the seven forty second squadron maintained. There

(18:05):
were there also another two squadrons in what we call
the wing, which composed the alphabet blow Lima flight. So
there gives you a picture. And my instant that I
was involved with happened at November flight and which is

(18:30):
about thirty seven miles from Minor Air Force Base. And
so to go into this instant a little bit more,
my commander were designated to relieve replace the crew at
November flight. And this was on September twenty six, twenty fifth,

(18:54):
nineteen sixty six, which was about six months prior to
Robert Sallas's incident.

Speaker 6 (19:04):
WOW. And so.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
My commander and I Major Gordon toleroand traveled by vehicle
because it was the closest flight to the base. We
traveled by vehicle to November flight, and we talked a
little bit about this because we had a hint that
morning that something was going wrong, possibly going wrong in

(19:32):
November flight. The reason is is because I heard a
TV broadcast in may Not. I lived in may Not,
which was thirteen miles from the base. I heard a
TV cast that morning that said residence of Mohall, North
Dakota saw strange lights overnight west of town. Well, we

(19:53):
were going to November flight, like I said, and November
flight was three miles west of the town the MOHO.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
So you both you realize you both hear stories of sightings.

Speaker 7 (20:08):
Prior to your incidents.

Speaker 8 (20:11):
You're both hearing it happening in the town right before
it happens on the base.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
Well, I don't think mister Sallas. You can speak for yourself,
but I don't think he was aware of any incidents
at all around No, right in.

Speaker 7 (20:28):
Your respected areas, is what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
You both heard chatter that there were lights in the
sky and the towns people are seeing them, and then
it's like an omen and then it happens to the base.

Speaker 7 (20:39):
It's really weird.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
And you have to understand that my incident was that
my Air Force base in North Dakota, and his was
that Mells from their fourth base in Montana. So and
different time periods, and his was six months after mine.
So the m O is just.

Speaker 8 (20:57):
It seems that they're they're seen in large numbers by
townsfolk and then you know, the towns are in reference
to these nuclear sites, and then they make their way
to the nuclear sites.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
So well, evidently people in Mohoon or who saw the
evidence of these lights west of the town. So my
commander and I went through the town of Mohall on
the way to November Flight, and I don't recall seeing
a resident at all as we zipped through town. And

(21:32):
it was a Sunday morning, but it was about ten
thirty church time, ten thirty in the morning maybe, so yeah. Anyway,
a short time later we arrived at November Flight, got
the gate opened and went in and parked. My commander
immediately went to the security section of the flight of

(21:53):
the launch Patrol facility where the security guards were mostly stationed,
especially the FFC, the flight security controller. I went in
the back door of the building and was immediately met
by the site manager, who was a tech sergeant, and
he said, did you hear what happened overnight? And I

(22:16):
said no. We did get a briefing at a pre
departure crew briefing on base that morning where they said
that a few missiles and the November flight went off alert,
but they gave no indication of how many or what
the problem was or anything. We had no recently the
question what was going on? But after that pre departure

(22:41):
crew briefing, there are at least three crews that came
up to my commander and I and he said, they said,
did you hear what was describe on TV this morning?

Speaker 7 (22:51):
So there was a big buzz at the base.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
There must have been a buzz as some sort on
the base. But like I said, there's fifteen crews there
at the pre departure briefing, but three of them came
up to my commander and I said, did you hear
the TV broadcast this morning?

Speaker 4 (23:07):
And I'd like to make the point that you were
not briefed about UFO settings at the departure over no
numbers flight at the pre departure briefing.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
Right now, we're never brief except that a few missiles
that to fight went off where they're still investigating.

Speaker 4 (23:23):
But they were not brief You know, we saw UFOs
before they lost some of their missiles.

Speaker 7 (23:31):
So you get is it incomfidence or is it.

Speaker 6 (23:35):
No cover up? It's cover up?

Speaker 5 (23:38):
And you know with both I know you weren't on
I know you didn't see see like have the same experience.

Speaker 7 (23:47):
But you know, in talking to Bob and you know
him and I got to going to Congress.

Speaker 11 (23:54):
Together, he related it to it was a warning, not
a warning, but a message to the human rights.

Speaker 7 (24:05):
This isn't the way, This isn't how you should be using.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
This later on, especially in my case, it took a
while to come to the collusion. Why did they use
u FO or these objects take down the missiles? And
the only thing we could come up with is that
it was a warning, warning message shows and.

Speaker 8 (24:31):
What do you what do you what do you what
do you guys say to that there is so I mean,
why would they if it wasn't to give us a warning, right,
if it wasn't to take the matches out of the
baby's hands. Do you think that's why they're covering it

(24:54):
up or is it more along the lines of the
covering up because they don't want to show weakness.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
The Air Force has always said, like he said, ah,
eofos do not exist and they pose no threat to
national security.

Speaker 6 (25:12):
So the.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
Thing that comes to mind is that these things aren't
really prassing our BENTI on destruction, but they're there that
maybe to somehow send us a message and if they
take all the ten missiles out of the commission at
a certain launch facility, that's a big message that.

Speaker 5 (25:36):
It's saying, at any time, I can get here and
I can stop you, right, I can turn the switch
off like this.

Speaker 6 (25:45):
I don't think that's what I can conclude.

Speaker 7 (25:49):
So that's what i'd like to ask. So, Bob, what
as being on the facility?

Speaker 1 (25:54):
You know?

Speaker 6 (25:55):
So fun?

Speaker 7 (25:56):
Because we get two perspectives, right.

Speaker 4 (25:58):
Well, it's not two perspective I think, David, I agree
that these incidents were messages to us regarding our foolish
use of the weapons. I'm convinced that's oh well, at
least that's the conclusion I've drawn. But the point I

(26:19):
did want to make is they weren't trying to tell
us that we the visitors, can shut down your missiles
anytime we want, although they did demonstrate that, But I
don't think that's part of the message because that implies
that they would possibly stop a nuclear war if we

(26:46):
started down that path. So there's a subtle difference here that. Yeah, However,
some of the witnesses that I know that have not
come forward yet tell fantastics worries of another of an encounter.
I'll give you an example of fellow I call text.
It's not his real name.

Speaker 6 (27:08):
But he was.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
One of the men brought to one of the Echo
Flight missile launch facilities or the missile to bring it
back up on alert status. And so he was out
there with the security guard doing his job, going through
his procedures to bring the missile back up on alert.

(27:35):
And he had, of course, he had his manual right,
but he was going through his maintenance manuel and at
one point he heard the guard upstairs up top side
rattal the metal ladder that we had to go down
into that area and to get his attention. And the

(27:58):
guard point up into the sky and there's an orange
ball of light or an orange He described it as
a you know, relatively small like a basketball size, but
it was definitely there right above them. And so he

(28:19):
goes up and says, you know, report this, but I've
got to get back to work. I got to bring
the missile back up. That's important to do that quickly.

Speaker 7 (28:28):
So I'm sorry, is he repairing it from it going
down in the same fashion as it went down?

Speaker 4 (28:33):
Yes, yes, this is one of the Echo flight so
he's bringing it back exactly from the from the incident
that happened the previous evening.

Speaker 6 (28:43):
Oh my god, So he was there.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
He sees the object, the guard sees the object, the
guard reports it. He goes back down the ladder and
goes through his checklist again, his manual, and he's about
to bring the you know, started up again at a
certain particular point in the manual. This is his description

(29:11):
of his activity, all right, And he says, all of
a sudden, the missile shuts down for no reason, goes
goes down. Okay, So he starts over in his checklist, right,
gets to that same point, that same point in his checklist,

(29:35):
and the missile goes down again. And he said, during
this period he felt like there was a beam of
static electricity. He could feel it coming down the tube.
You know where he was from.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Apparently from this object.

Speaker 3 (30:08):
Connection a connection attention so weird and emergency has been reported.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
All walking walks snowwey exit and walked down to your.

Speaker 7 (30:20):
Side floor or meanwive?

Speaker 1 (30:22):
Does he go to this point using and I looked.

Speaker 7 (30:29):
Us he's going to We've been walking to the questions
attention glode, attention, attention.

Speaker 4 (30:39):
An emergency has been reported.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
I don't as snowway exit.

Speaker 7 (30:47):
Sorry, we just had a future tiler. We just had
that fire.

Speaker 12 (30:50):
Alarm, So as that part out, obviously we keep that
part where I look in because that was kind of funny.
All right, So, gentlemen, we just had a we're at
contact in the desert.

Speaker 7 (31:04):
You know, we don't have the shurecoat it.

Speaker 8 (31:05):
We had a fire alarm, so we did get a
little bit interrupted. Took a little pause, but we were
talking about this.

Speaker 7 (31:16):
We're talking about the gentleman that was working in.

Speaker 8 (31:20):
He was bringing the flight back on and it kept
going shutting back down at that exact same spot in
the checklist.

Speaker 7 (31:28):
So what happens.

Speaker 4 (31:31):
Next, Well, just to continue that story, he told me,
and by the way, this is a highly reliable individual.

Speaker 6 (31:45):
In fact, he was.

Speaker 4 (31:48):
Had a very high position when I spoke with him
in an aerospace firm. He's solid witness. But he cannot
come forward just yet. Maybe sometime in the future. But
to continue the story, he told me that he kept

(32:12):
this up for multiple times, trying to bring that missile
back up on alert because that was his assignment and
it was critical that he do that.

Speaker 6 (32:23):
And so he.

Speaker 4 (32:26):
Kept going back to the checklist and each time he
got to the point of this one part of the checklist,
the missile would shut down again while the object was
still above him, and he had a conclusion. He concluded

(32:48):
something about that until the object that was above him
left and it was going on and he can no
longer feel this beam of static electricity coming down at him,
that he was able to bring the missile back up

(33:11):
on alert status. What he concluded was whatever intelligence is
operating these vehicles, they knew exactly precisely how the missiles
systems worked to the you know, detail of of knowing

(33:34):
where he was in his checklist and what to do
to shut the missile down at that point.

Speaker 8 (33:42):
So then whoever it is, whoever they are, they have
an intricate and complex knowledge of.

Speaker 4 (33:50):
Our ye and we're talking about a very highly intelligent
and witness those technology the.

Speaker 6 (34:02):
Very well. And uh yes.

Speaker 8 (34:06):
So in your case was anything can you can you
recall anything like this happening as well at at your Air.

Speaker 7 (34:16):
Force base after the incident.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
Nothing nobody was talking at all on BAIS about UFOs.

Speaker 8 (34:24):
So it was a completely different kind of mindset. It
was a completely different response at each base.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yes, but let me continue with my story here. I
entered the back door of the facility, met the site
manager tech sergeant, and he, like I said, he asked
me if I heard what happened over that. Well, no,
I really didn't, but I told you the story. What
what about the TV news news and the and the

(34:57):
three crews that came up to me and said did
you hear what happened? But regarding the news, this was
on the mind of Major Gordon Tolerant and I as
we traveled to days and like I said, he entered
the security center, I entered the back door and met
the tech sergeant and he then took me to the

(35:18):
west windows of the day room of the facility and
looking out at the security fence, he pointed out there
that there was an object covering out there overnight, just
beyond the security fence and holding his arms out like that.

Speaker 6 (35:37):
You know.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
I estimated maybe the object was eighty to one hundred,
but why I don't know, but that's the way it
appeared in And so I said, tell me more about
the object. Was it a helicopter? And it was something
I shouldn't said, because he looked a little irritated. Helicopters

(35:59):
don't don't fly to the launch control facilities at night,
and if they do fly in, they land on the
main road, Infants Road anyway. So what the object looked like, Well,
it had bright flashing lights, and that's all he could.
He couldn't adequately describe the object. They weren't like beacon

(36:24):
lights of airplanes, which usually have red, green, and maybe
white light flashing.

Speaker 7 (36:30):
Light alternating antly.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
But this was a bright flashing lights across the with
the thing. And he had trouble determining a structure behind
this nebulous glow or flashing glow or whatever it was.
He couldn't really describe it, but he thought he could
see He thought he could see a structure or a

(36:54):
long structure which looked like maybe the edges of a
saucer or something. So, but it was hovering above the ground.
It hadn't landed. Then after a few minutes that started
hovering and moving to the north of the building, to
the north side where the main security fanpas was, and

(37:19):
the people from the security center of the facility could
see this object where they couldn't see it before. And
it hovered there for a long time, and all eight people,
the six security guards and the cook and the same
manager saw this object covering there next to the main gate,

(37:44):
but it was partly blocked from the security center. Only
a portion, a small portion of the object could not
be seen because it was blocked by the garage Facilita
garage that was next to the near the main gate.
They looked at this thing and they were really frightened.
And and the site manager and the security guards that

(38:08):
were centered around me and describing this the since that
you could tell by their motion and their voices and
in their faces that it was very, very frightening, and
they gave me no doubt that they had seen something
that was something they had never seen before.

Speaker 7 (38:32):
So again you can.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
When Bob discusses the frantic call down to the launch
control center from the Launch Control facility officers, that same
freight is in.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
Is displayed by the other security people and the and
the and the senior airman.

Speaker 8 (38:55):
Can I ask you both the questions, is there any
possibility that this is our government doing this to us
and red teeming us too with some form of next.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
Level There's no way because the wing on base of
one hundred and fifty missiles, they had a quota meet
of ninety five up time for the missiles, and they
didn't dare take any missiles down on purpose just to

(39:34):
because they had to meet this quota every month or
I'll say it would get demerits or whatever was that.

Speaker 8 (39:42):
So so there's a little detail, but it's one that
it adds to that luck.

Speaker 7 (39:47):
So again, are you under this impressions?

Speaker 6 (39:49):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (39:50):
So I absolutely agree that if the Air Force had
done some sort of exercise, they wouldn't have used operational
missiles to do it. These missiles were on alert status.

Speaker 6 (40:09):
Meaning they were ready to go, and.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
All the way up the line, didn't you talk to
your squad and commanderise?

Speaker 4 (40:22):
And when I returned to Mels from Air Force Base
that morning, we were ordered to go to the squad
and commander's office.

Speaker 6 (40:28):
The first, very first.

Speaker 4 (40:30):
Thing I asked him was was this some sort of
Air Force exercise like a readiness exercise or something like that?
And he was white is a sheet, I'm telling you,
he was just white is a sheet and said absolutely not.
And I said, well, do you know what was going on?

Speaker 6 (40:53):
What happened?

Speaker 4 (40:56):
Do you know anything about what happened? And he said no,
I know nothing about what happened or why. This is
very uncommon, absolutely this never happened about this.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
All right, right now.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Especially with ten missiles going off alert.

Speaker 4 (41:16):
And plus we have the telegram that I received in
the Free Information Act that states specifically the fact, and
this was from SAC Headquarters, Strategic are Command headquarters, this
telegram to other missile bases and headquarters, and it said

(41:38):
in that telegram specifically, in i'll paraphrase, the fact that
we have no knowledge of how this could happen or
worse to that effect is of grave concern to this command.
They use those words grave concern. They wouldn't have used

(42:01):
those words if this was some kind of an Air
Force exercise. Plus, as Dave said, we would have gotten
some sort of feedback on how we perform if it
were an exercise. Right, we never got feedback.

Speaker 7 (42:17):
Okay, now, okay, So a telegram.

Speaker 4 (42:20):
Does go out after after the echo flight incident to
the echo flight.

Speaker 8 (42:25):
Now there, Now it's getting to the point where maybe
it is getting repeated, and you know, someone starting to
up like, hey, this.

Speaker 7 (42:34):
Is a grave So now they start.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Well do you know if that goes anywhere?

Speaker 3 (42:39):
Well, what do you mean that telegram.

Speaker 7 (42:43):
That you avoid?

Speaker 8 (42:44):
What was the I mean this is now documented that right,
So you would, you would expect this.

Speaker 7 (42:52):
Is something that eventually is going to be investigated.

Speaker 13 (42:56):
It just must have known about it, absolutely, And they'll
get into that they knew about the incident, that might
not and there wasn't just one, but anyway, they knew
about that incident of that Dave knew about it, miight not.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
And why would Sack six months later write a telegram
that said, we don't know, we can't explain, or we
we need a full investigation of how this could happen.
They even listed specific names of Boeing engineers that they

(43:38):
wanted as a part of this investigation. They called for
a complete and total collection of information and for the
Air Force at Melstrom to do a thorough investigation. Does

(43:59):
it happen, Absolutely, it happens. I've even got the name
of the report that they finally issued. However, it is classified.
We tried to get a hold of that report and
they would not release it to us, but the US
Congress could ask for it and maybe it would be
released to them. That report exists, its absolutely, it exists.

(44:27):
I've got documentation that shows the title, date whatever of
this report on the Echo flight shutdown.

Speaker 8 (44:37):
So if Congress were to have the right clearances, like
you know, Eric Burlison, You know, these people could go
after that document as proof that this needs to be
because if it happened in the sixties, it's probably still happening.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
And absolutely something is pushing on.

Speaker 8 (45:00):
That we can't explain. I want to ask you, guys,
after you have your incidents, does the phenomena follow you?
It's been reported you don't have to go into details
about anything, but is it is it safe?

Speaker 7 (45:15):
You know, people want to know.

Speaker 8 (45:19):
Why why you, guys, why you Why were you at
You know, a lot a lot of people wonder these
things like were you chosen to be a part of
this in some grand design? And did the Does the
phenomena follow you through the rest of your life?

Speaker 6 (45:35):
Well?

Speaker 4 (45:36):
Uh, I know for a fact that it made me
committed to get to the truth of what happened in
my case, and that's and I couldn't wait to disclose
it to the public, the public. I'm absolutely behind revealing

(45:58):
everything I know to the public. And that's what I
do when I thought I was able to do it
and continue to do it even though I am still
technically under this NDA. However, are given a complete report
to the old Domain Anomaly Resolution Office two and a

(46:22):
half hours speaking to them, showing them all the evidence
I had documented, and they told me I did a
great job not to worry about my NDA, but now
my story.

Speaker 6 (46:40):
Is a historical.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
Document for their purposes of documenting the phenomenon. They told
me that in writing, and so since Congress set up ERROW,
they should have access to this documentation. I gave them
the whole thing, all the documents. I had my presentation,

(47:08):
PowerPoint presentation, the audio tapes I have of the witnesses
both at Echo Flight and in my case, I've got
audio tapes of what the kind of investigator when he
interviewed based UFO officer Colonel Chase where he denied everything.

Speaker 8 (47:36):
Right, So these there's a paper trail out there is
absolutely And we walked into Mason's office and briefed her.

Speaker 7 (47:46):
Yes, so we know it was the day of the
November year. You know it was on their mind and
in that.

Speaker 8 (47:53):
In that meeting, she expressed a desire to do it
and t you know we use these.

Speaker 7 (48:02):
Words here UFOs and Newkes in.

Speaker 8 (48:07):
A hearing, right, and would you both testify under oath
to Congress.

Speaker 7 (48:15):
About what happened?

Speaker 3 (48:17):
Yes, I certainly right.

Speaker 8 (48:21):
And have they Has there any been since, you know,
in the last year, with all these missile blows coming forward,
with the UFO topics seemingly coming to the mainstream narrative,
has Congress showed any recent interest in having you.

Speaker 7 (48:40):
Justify?

Speaker 4 (48:41):
I have not been contacted to do so. Uh, even
though I've reached out to not only represented Mace again,
but other members of this coalition, this U a P
congressional coalition. I've reached out to other members. I've sent messages.

(49:06):
I have asked mister Bassett to provide them with AFFI
davits of some of my supporting witnesses, myself included, and
they have that documentation. A lot of the Congress individuals
have some of my documentation and certainly.

Speaker 6 (49:29):
Yeah, So.

Speaker 4 (49:33):
I don't understand, except I have a theory about why
they haven't proceeded yet with extending invitations to people like
Dave and myself.

Speaker 6 (49:44):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (49:44):
And that is the do O D to our Defense
annually provides the public and Congress a statement about the
nuclear capability and states categorically that nuclear deterrence is the

(50:07):
basis of our national security. They use those words. They
do not want, they do not want people like us,
I think, making statements that would indicate some unknown objects
have the ability to shut down our nuclear capability at will,

(50:30):
and they could know nothing about that. They don't they
don't have the answers to stop that.

Speaker 7 (50:38):
So they don't want they don't want even the inkling.

Speaker 4 (50:41):
Of They don't want to hear the discussion had had
in public, no period.

Speaker 8 (50:46):
They don't want people that's questioning our our ability because
you know, if you really think about it, you know, citizens,
citizens and government and military. There's this this you know
is well handshake. We'll pay our taxes and follow the
laws and you protect us.

Speaker 7 (51:06):
And you know, put the laws in a place. So
if you can't protect us from whoever they are.

Speaker 8 (51:15):
Well why should I pannade taxes? So it's this construct
that we make with the government, is we do as
a give and take and we are.

Speaker 7 (51:26):
In charge of the government.

Speaker 4 (51:28):
Then another thing the public should expect, and that is
they should expect visibility of what our government is doing.
Absolutely that they are doing and they are informing us
of how they're performing as our government. And from what

(51:52):
we're hearing now from whistleblowers is that they're actually developed
or have developed weapons to shoot down these objects, to
destroy them, and basically declaring in secrecy, without public knowledge,
that they are an enemy. Yes, that needs to be destroyed.

Speaker 7 (52:16):
Yes, And there are people there.

Speaker 4 (52:18):
And they've made this decision without public input, without public disclosure.

Speaker 7 (52:25):
And we've seen how that happens with things like Vietnam.

Speaker 6 (52:28):
Yeah, exactly how.

Speaker 8 (52:29):
That turns out. It's the government isn't going to be
on the right side of this, And I don't think
that's why.

Speaker 7 (52:36):
I don't think a disclosure is around any corner the
way people want it to be. Where a president comes
out and.

Speaker 8 (52:45):
Are us for one hundred years, eighty years, hundred years,
what's what's really going on? There's too many there's too
many one ifs, there's too many fingers to point and
lies told for.

Speaker 4 (53:00):
For whether whatever has been done in the past does
not give them a license to continue to lie to
us about something like this. And the public has a
right to demand the truth right of their government. That's
the way democracy is supposed to work.

Speaker 8 (53:23):
Right, So in that in that terms, in those terms,
I think the public pressure is mounting. And you know,
gods like yourselves who you know, correct me if I'm wrong,
But you.

Speaker 7 (53:37):
Guys have to report if you took Thailand.

Speaker 8 (53:39):
All right, you're very mentally sound when you're doing your
job back in the day.

Speaker 6 (53:46):
No, that's not correct.

Speaker 7 (53:48):
So they always say that in these interviews. They say
the report if they think.

Speaker 4 (53:53):
Thil if they saw one of us becoming an alcoholic,
for example, and couldn't you know, function without a drink
in the capsule, then that's a different story. But you well,
we don't know. I don't know how much I was monitored.

(54:14):
I think I was. They kept tabs on us in
their own way, but they didn't, uh, you know, bring
us in for a check up every now and then
or anything like that, or or checked our metal. Uh
you know, we had mental issues.

Speaker 7 (54:29):
That actually is a lot scarier.

Speaker 8 (54:31):
Though I wish I could continue believing they they did
do checks every once in a while.

Speaker 7 (54:38):
But anyway, we'll skip back that far.

Speaker 4 (54:40):
That's that's frightening, since I just put a point on
here that they do have something called a.

Speaker 6 (54:51):
What was it called uh.

Speaker 4 (54:54):
A program where they checked uh it was a reliability
check on into visuals.

Speaker 6 (55:02):
The nuclear in the nuclear jobs.

Speaker 7 (55:07):
That's good.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
Yeah, So has the phenomenon followed you in your life?

Speaker 3 (55:13):
No? I never got to finish my story. And that's
very important for some things that you need to know,
needs to know about, and why not agree with everything
Robert Sallis has said, and it's uh, it's stuff that
people need to know. But the people I was talking

(55:35):
to top side, they are very frightened of what they saw.
And the last thing what they saw was this object
shooting up off the ground off the the hover maneuver
behind the main gate. This thing shot up within the
second and disappeared. It was gone. Talk about defining the

(55:58):
laws of physics, This thing really did. And that is
what gave them the impression that this object was not
man made, that it was interplanetary or something. It was
an object they had never seen before. They had never
seen this thing operate like I did. It was just gone.

(56:21):
When my commander and I went down after receiving our
thirty eight revolvers which I issued at that time, and
we strapped them on and took the elevator down sixty feet,
opened two blast doors to get into the capsule, and
when we walked into the capsule, we saw the launch
control console at the far end of the room had

(56:44):
all red lights. All ten missiles were off alert and unlaunchable.
We had never seen anything like that before. Sometimes we'd
go to a capsule and maybe maybe we'd see one
or two missiles off alert, but they were scheduled periodic maintenance.

(57:06):
It was normal. That's why they they you couldn't get
one hundred percent up time for the missiles, and that's
why they also struggled to keep those maintenance periods as
short as possible and those missiles operating like they should
to get the ninety five percent up time right. We

(57:31):
then turned to the crew and went to the crew
changeover procedures, which was opening the safe next to launch
control console and inventoring the go code and the keys
to launch the missiles. When the crew changeover was complete.
In that regard, we questioned the crew extensively about what

(57:54):
had happened and how all those missiles went off alert.
We discussed the E M F pulses and so forth
and so on, but we realized that there had to
been some sort of signal from that UFO to the
to the to each one of the missiles, to the

(58:17):
equipment in the launch control center and to those hardened tables.
We couldn't come to any decision at all, and how
that could have happened. It was beyond the realm of
physics that we knew, and it was questionable whether scientists

(58:38):
could ever figure this out with the physics that we had.

Speaker 8 (58:42):
So you guys are actively thinking about how such a
thing could actually happen, right, No conceivable you know, adversary
that that would be able, that you guys know.

Speaker 7 (58:54):
Or anyway that you really know how such a thing
could occur.

Speaker 3 (58:59):
Yescuse actually talk.

Speaker 7 (59:02):
The conclusion was unidentified.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
Yeah, and to us it was shocking. Uh, we just
could not fathom what had happened because we didn't know.
We heard about sauces we mentioned before, but not in
connection with the Air Force or any of the job
that we were doing.

Speaker 6 (59:26):
And that.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
Do you think that now the Air Force has been
notoriously quiet? So the Navy has talked, you know, the Navy.

Speaker 7 (59:36):
Release the video.

Speaker 3 (59:37):
Let me get into that. The crew left and when
they arrived on base, they were ordered to sign a
non disclosure agreement. Both the commander of that crew, who
by the way, is still living, and the deputy the

(59:58):
crew commander is still living. I talked to him in
twenty fourteen, and I recognized him right away. It was
at an Air Force reunion. It was the second time
I'd seen him for many, many years, but I recognized
him because I made it a point too, because he

(01:00:19):
was from from the different different squadron. He was from
the seventh fortieth Squadron I blocked at the seven forty
second squadron that had the five launch control centers. He
was never questioned by the Air Force about what happened.
As soon as he signed his non the scroos agreement,
excuse him deputy likewise, was not questioned. Were you questioned

(01:00:45):
at all by the Air Force?

Speaker 4 (01:00:47):
Not at all? And the same thing happened to me.
After I signed my non disclosure agreement, I was excused
from his office, the scorner commander's office, and left. They
never asked a question about experience, what happened?

Speaker 6 (01:01:08):
Did it happen?

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
The same thing with the crew that we relieved. They
were asked any questions at all. They were excused also
after then disclosure agreement. My commander and I when we
left the next day went to base. It is like
nothing ever happened, because my commander received a call overnight

(01:01:30):
from the Air Force Office of Specialness Investigations telling us
to keep our mouths shut. We are told, as far
as you're concerned, it never happened, and keep your mouth
shut for as long as you live.

Speaker 4 (01:01:43):
Okay, let's congesture a little bit here. Why do you
think Air Force never queried or asked us questions about
our experience?

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
What does that tell you?

Speaker 6 (01:01:57):
What does that tell you?

Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
Number one? UFOs definitely exists. Number two and the second
one was that this happened many times.

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
That's exactly what I was getting at. The Air Force
did not need to ask me what happens because or
any of us they already knew because this has happened
many times before.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
For January twenty six, twenty five, nineteen sixty six.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Yeap, guys, you're blowing my mind.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
But I don't even know.

Speaker 8 (01:02:32):
What to say to that, because we have the energy
on waiting outside now.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
And okay, just so again, will.

Speaker 4 (01:02:40):
You if I.

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
Will definitely testify, yes.

Speaker 7 (01:02:45):
Absolutely what happens, I'll call you.

Speaker 6 (01:02:50):
Well.

Speaker 4 (01:02:51):
I will continue to present my evidence in any way
I can uh, in podcasts and in speeches like this
at the conventions, and in other ways my writings. I
will continue to press the government to push agencies like
the Air Force to come up with the truth and

(01:03:16):
with the help of mister Danny Sheehan and others. Yes, uh,
maybe we can get some action.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
We'll get this done.

Speaker 8 (01:03:24):
Thank you, gentlemen for joining me at in the desert
I want to see.

Speaker 7 (01:03:28):
Thank you. Thanks really great friends, and continue doing what you're.

Speaker 4 (01:03:32):
Doing to get good all right, thank you.

Speaker 6 (01:03:39):
Thanks.

Speaker 3 (01:03:40):
Two men rotated every twenty four hours.

Speaker 6 (01:03:43):
Keep around the clock bit

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