February 21, 2025 • 38 mins
How did a dyslexic high school dropout become a successful inventor and entrepreneur? In this episode of Total Michigan, host Cliff DuVernois interviews Terry Duperon, founder of Duperon Corporation and Duperon Education. Terry shares his incredible story of overcoming severe dyslexia and other personal challenges to become a successful inventor and entrepreneur.
In this show, we discuss:
- Terry Duperon shares his inspiring journey from early struggles with dyslexia to founding a multi-million dollar company.
- Discussion of his educational ventures, including teaching entrepreneurship and starting Duperon Education and the One Degree Club.
- Insights into his philosophy on life and business, emphasizing the importance of taking the next clear step and leveraging personal strengths.
Links:
The Class: https://www.duperoneducation.com/the-class
One Degree: https://www.duperoneducation.com/one-degree
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Show Notes:
00:00 Reflecting on Past Challenges
01:35 Terry's Early Life and Education
02:40 Overcoming Dyslexia
03:59 First Patent and Mechanical Aptitude
05:05 Founding Duperon Corporation
06:54 Starting Duperon Education
10:48 The One Degree Club
19:46 Expanding International Footprint
20:08 The Value of Real-Time Learning
21:23 The One Degree Club and Startups
23:26 Purpose and Outcome of the Class
27:08 Personal Stories and T-isms
27:23 Take the Next Clear Step
31:43 Embracing the Present and Faith
37:02 Conclusion and Next Steps
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Terry Duperon (00:00):
I believe everything that happened in the past, including
(00:02):
this problem I had, that crisis was thebest thing that ever happened to me.
Changed the way I had my faith,it changed the way I do business.
I would never have the successif I had not gone through that.
So, I value the past.
Cliff Duvernois (00:15):
Hello, everyone.
And welcome back to total Michigan,where we interview ordinary Michiganders
doing some pretty extraordinary things.
I'm your host, Cliff DuVernois.
If you're saying to yourself,wow, things look different.
Well, I'm happy to report that we areactually filming this at our new studio.
That's what I'm calling it T for Terry.
We've got this wonderfulbuilding, this wonderful location.
(00:37):
And I foresee a lot of interviewsjust taking place here.
The show is growing.
And I'm just beyond excitedto make that happen.
And with that being said, I couldn'tthink of any better person to have on the
show to kick off this inaugural episode,the new things that are happening.
And there's definitely alot going on in his life.
(00:59):
He's actually been aprevious guest on the show.
That would be Terry Duperon.
He is the founder of the DuperonCorporation, as well as Duperon Education.
And if you want to get to know hisfull backstory, make sure to go back
and listen to episode 79 of the show.
We're actually going to do a quickrecap of that right now before
(01:19):
we jump into the meat of that.
But let's go ahead and get started.
Terry, how are you?
Terry Duperon (01:24):
I'm great so far.
Cliff Duvernois (01:26):
So far, yes.
It's been a while since youand I have sat down in front
of the microphones and chatted.
It is.
It's, it's always a newexperience when I do it.
Nice.
So Terry, let's explore yourbackstory just for a little bit.
Cause we got new listenershere, but talk to us a little
bit about where are you from?
Where did you grow up?
Terry Duperon (01:43):
I was raised on a farm in the Indian down, so I get them,
so I go to Michigan, Saginaw County,I, I grew up here till I was 18 got
married and, uh, moved not far away,but I moved to a different place.
But I went to school, a little,little school in Indian town,
a little, there was four in mygraduating class in the eighth grade.
Cliff Duvernois (02:05):
Now, was it, was it one of these schools where you had like
all the grades in the same classroom?
Okay.
All right.
Terry Duperon (02:10):
Well, we were bigger.
We had two rooms.
Two?
Big room and a little room.
Yeah.
We're coming up in the world.
And so you went from firstto fourth and then from fifth
to eighth in the other room.
that's where I got my education,which didn't go real well because
of the reading, writing problems.
then I went to Saginaw High.
Now this was about, thiswas in the fifties, right?
(02:31):
It would have been, uh,Oh, Lord, I was born in 43.
Cliff Duvernois (02:36):
So late 40s, early 50s?
Yeah.
Going to school?
Early 50s, yeah.
And when you talked before about thereading and writing problems, right?
And of course, people didn't knowthis at the time, but later on
you were diagnosed as dyslexic.
Terry Duperon (02:47):
Yeah.
and then I found out it's, apretty serious case because I,
I couldn't read and write and Ihave the attention span of a gnat.
I'm not coordinated, whichleaves a few fields out.
Athletic, it's not going to happenbecause of the coordination.
short in that story is that when Iwas in the, in the third grade, my
third grade teacher asked me to standup and read a first grade book, Dick
(03:10):
and Jane, and I couldn't read it.
I was in front of the class.
Everybody in my world's in that classroom.
I realized there'ssomething wrong with me.
I couldn't do what they could do.
That time, you're just not that smart.
Frank.
the first time I felt inferior, Igot sick to my stomach up there.
It was awful.
But in that, around that sametime, we, We studied inventors.
(03:31):
And they become my heroesbecause I believe they only did
one thing and they were rich.
So we're talking about,
Cliff Duvernois (03:35):
we're talking about inventors like Henry Ford.
Henry Ford,
Terry Duperon (03:38):
Edison.
Edison.
Yeah.
Whitney, that group.
And I was really impressed with that.
So I had this dream at that time at eightyears old, I was going to be an inventor
and make my living off my inventions.
The rest, I was flunking.
So that kept me going.
Um, So I spent a lot of time headedthat way, just tearing stuff apart,
trying to figure out how it works.
(03:59):
But when I was about 19, I got,my first patent and it said U.
S.
Patent Office, Terry Duperon Inventor.
Cliff Duvernois (04:06):
So if we break this down a little bit, just to go back
for there and give, give the audiencea little bit of a, of a clue, right.
You, you still struggle to readand write at this time, but you
still managed to get a patent.
Terry Duperon (04:17):
Yeah.
It's two different skills.
Yes.
and I had a mechanical aptitude, soI run with that aptitude, you know,
with that mechanical aptitude, Ilearned that success is nothing to do
what I'm not, run with what you got.
I had, I had that.
so when I got the patent, I rememberthe eighth grade, I remember making
this commitment to this dream of mine.
(04:38):
pretty unrealistic dreamif I told anybody I had it.
But it happened.
So then it become, how does athird grade boy cause that future?
then I decided it's got tobe in the way you, you think.
So I think whether you're successfulor not is all in the way you think.
I agree.
that led to do parent education.
Cliff Duvernois (04:58):
So before we jump into that real quick, just
to finish your story, okay.
Round it up.
you start finally, cause yougot more than one patent.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
One of your inventions actually takes off.
You have actually built a business.
Oh yeah.
Around, around that patent.
Right.
And at the time of the interview, if Iremember correctly, your company was set
to clear north of 20 million at that time.
Terry Duperon (05:19):
Yeah.
Now that's pushing
Cliff Duvernois (05:21):
50 seat.
That's awesome.
Terry Duperon (05:24):
Yeah.
Cliff Duvernois (05:25):
And these people growing up and I'm filling in your story a little
bit here, but a lot of people tellingyou, asking you why you were dumb,
you were stupid, why can't you read?
Yep.
But here you are, you've gone off andyou have somehow built this company.
You've got the rightgroup of people in place.
Now you employ dozens, 77.
People right now at 77 and these are,this is a combination of like really
(05:47):
smart engineers, engineers, projectmanagers, correctly, expensive people.
Yes.
Now for you yourself, cause you'rein your eighties now, you didn't
learn how to read until when?
Seven years ago, seven years ago.
I, uh, and you built all of that inspite of the fact that you've been right.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Terry Duperon (06:07):
So, seven years ago, I decided I would try to read, and I got
a book called Jesus Calling, and I wasgoing to spend a little spiritual time
in the morning, so I read one page.
And I really struggled to read that page.
So I read one page a day for seven years,same book, over and over and over again.
I still don't trust what Iread because I screw words up.
(06:29):
even when I think I have itmemorized, is the word close to that?
I mess it up.
. So, so I, I get enough out of it that,that I can read things to some degree,
but I, I don't read anything that Ihave to depend on without verifying
it, because you can put the wrongword in the sentence and it fits.
It's a whole different meaning.
(06:50):
Yes, that's true.
You know, anyways, I can read a bit.
Cliff Duvernois (06:54):
You were talking before about how you decided
to fire up Duperon education.
Yeah.
And I, I gotta say there's acertain irony here because you
are the high school dropout.
Yes.
You don't have a college degree,but you decided to start a school.
Terry Duperon (07:10):
Well, first I was asked by the Dean of Engineering
and Science at Saginaw Valley StateUniversity if I would, he knew I was
an entrepreneur, if I would talk, teachentrepreneurship to senior engineers.
Oh boy.
Yeah, what a challenge.
Joy.
it was an opportunity.
So I weigh everyopportunity by two things.
(07:30):
Number one, does this opportunitytake me closer to this man
God created or further away?
And I, I know who I am by thethings I love and care about
matter to me and make a difference.
And the other one, does it takeme closer to one of my dreams?
I have faith in dreams now becauseof my third grade dream happen.
I remember standing at the doorsaying, Terry, what are you doing here?
You don't know what a university does.
You don't know what a professor does.
(07:52):
You know, what makes you think youcan teach senior engineers anything?
But I remember, success hasnothing to do with what I'm not,
and never be the one that limitsis another phrase I hung on to.
So I'm not throwing me out before they do.
Good chance I'll get thrown out.
Because I have no idea what I'm doing.
But it fit me.
It fit who I am, where I wanted to go.
(08:13):
I wanted to grow thecompany 25 percent a year.
And I thought if I could teachpeople how to reinvent what they
do in themselves every year, youcould grow a company that fast.
So that, it was, it fit me, itfit where I wanted to go, it
fit who I am, the challenge did.
Whether I know how or not evidentlydoesn't seem to be in the equation.
So I went in there, screwed itup, I got, I panicked, tried to be
(08:38):
whatever I thought a professor was.
Put everybody in a coma in 10minutes, and I, I thought they're not
going to let me back, but they did.
So I asked a real teacher.
what's important when youteach anybody anything?
And she said that youknow where they're at.
So I started drawing on the board basedon let's figure out where they're at.
(09:00):
And then the class started to evolveand develop, the teaching aid developed.
And then after three years there,I thought if you're going to teach
it, you ought to be able to startyour own business, your own school.
So I started to do parent education.
There's the entrepreneur again.
Yeah.
So.
So now that's going on 20 some years.
How many students do you thinkhave gone through that program?
(09:21):
Oh, a couple thousand.
At least.
Yeah, there was six professorsfrom the university took this.
Cliff Duvernois (09:26):
Yeah, because it's been a collection, like you talk
about six professors university,but we're talking also like CEOs.
Oh, yeah.
Of, you know, big companies inthe area, we've had, professors
that have come through, but it'snot just, people that you might
think would be like overachievers.
Like in the first time that I tookthe class, you had somebody who
had a, like a lawn care business.
You know, you had an engineer that had apatent for a kitty litter box, you know?
(09:51):
Right.
So it literally was an eclecticmix of people and we all
got value from the class.
Terry Duperon (10:00):
what usually happens is when people come into the class,
they really don't know who theyare, where they're going, because
they just don't think about it.
You know, they're
Cliff Duvernois (10:07):
just busy.
Well, they're following the plan.
Terry Duperon (10:09):
Yeah.
Cliff Duvernois (10:10):
This is your life.
You work at a job for 40 yearsand then you retire and yeah.
Terry Duperon (10:15):
And everybody gets programmed and.
We all get programmed.
Yep.
And that's why there's not alot of entrepreneurs, because
we're not trained for that.
We're trained to, uh, help otherpeople achieve their dreams.
not your own.
Now the class, what I'm doing is expandingthat, where we can, I'm doing some
videos so other people can teach it.
(10:35):
Then, so I'm.
You're talking about an online version.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I don't have to be there.
So that's coming to play.
Cliff Duvernois (10:42):
So you have the class and the class is going on.
You've had students that aregoing through, you've got
this new project going on.
One of the things that happenednot too long after you and I had
our first interview back in theday was you started up One Degree.
Terry Duperon (10:58):
Yes, I, what I, what I got it, what I was doing before that is I
wanted to do startups, startup businesses.
And I was, now when you say do them, youwant to invest in them, invest in them.
Okay, I'm looking for an entrepreneuror want to be entrepreneur start with.
And I want to know the, I want to write,do another book, be my fifth book.
(11:20):
Can't read and write.
do books?
That's great.
So I, I want to do books.
The fifth, this fifth one is I wantto know why so many startups fail
and what can I put in place so theydon't fail and who's most likely to
succeed in the entrepreneur world.
(11:41):
Okay.
So I've got 12 startups right now.
I want to do 20 more.
And they're all different.
There's cafes and bakeriesand, gift shops and wood shops.
And, uh, just recently buyinga boat company and, uh,
three marketing companies.
They all different.
And what I do is, I'll pick the firstone I did was, Kay's Cafe in Frankenmuth.
(12:07):
The young girl is, 21 years old,out of culinary school, really
creative in the food she makes,wants to be in her own business.
So I'll use her as a first study.
It is a lot, I need togleam out a bit more.
So she asked me, she said,I found this little cafe.
So I said, I told you, ifyou wanted, we'll partner up.
(12:29):
So what that partner lookslike is I own 51 percent.
I buy the material.
she owns 49, and then theobjective is she buys me out.
I don't have a profit in this.
I'm, the study is my profit.
I do that for her, so I buy the equipmentand get her set up, and then she takes
it and makes her own wages, about twomonths in it, she says, I ate this.
(12:53):
This is the worst job I've ever had.
Because it's tough going fromemployee to business owner.
Oh my gosh.
she's young and I know thatwhere she's been trained.
If you look at our school system,failure is heavily punished.
Failure is not acceptable.
if you're in a second grade and youflunk, you don't get to third grade.
If you flunk a test, you get exposedto the class as being not smart enough.
(13:16):
Or you don't get your diploma,or you don't get your degree.
failure is heavily punished.
Right up to doctor's degrees.
So, she's coming out of a systemwhere failure is unacceptable.
And I'm putting her in a systemwhere failure is essential.
It's trial and error.
Because that's where youdo most of your learning.
Pretty much all of it.
(13:37):
You try things, they work, some don't.
two months into it, she don't knowhow many eggs to have, she don't
know how much help to have, andshe's making mistakes right and left.
she's feeling anxiety and overwhelmand depression, which I know she's
gonna, because there's this transition.
So I tell her, I'm her I'mher champion, her coach.
And I tell her that you're goingto wonder where the love of God
(14:00):
went here in the next few months.
So you are, have to make this transition.
You're gonna have to run the gauntlet.
I tell her, if you hold the course, you'llcome out of this wiser and stronger.
So she holds the course, andabout 11 months into it, she said,
You know, I'll make mistakes,but I think I can handle that.
(14:20):
And I got really excitedbecause she's making it.
She's got faith in herself, faith inthe endeavor, and faith in how do we
show itself, that she'll figure it out.
Then she started to grow.
She tried catering, which really expanded.
So the, One Degree Club isto help people like her.
The whole purpose of the OneDegree Club, let me first start
with the name, One Degree.
(14:42):
I've never met anybody inmy life that hasn't changed
my life at least one degree.
You're one of them changed my life.
Okay, so I, that's wherethe name come from.
And we're there to be champions,to have champions, and to be
mentors and to have mentors.
Because these startups or thesepeople trying something new,
we need champions and mentors.
(15:04):
And we need to be it, and weneed to mentor other people.
But you always have somethingto give and to learn.
So that's the purpose of OneDegree Club, to fill that gap.
That's what I'm trying to putin place so they don't fail.
They have the strength of peoplethey know that they can trust
and they develop relationships.
that's where that came from.
So we're still doing that, and thatseems to be doing alright right now.
(15:25):
And again,
Cliff Duvernois (15:26):
that's another program that's basically open to anyone.
Yeah.
You don't have to be a business owner.
You could be Yeah,everybody can come here.
Anybody can come and be a part of that.
Terry Duperon (15:34):
Yeah, and everybody has something to offer.
If you've lived any life at all,there are people that need you.
And then there's people you need.
So it's a matter of developing aculture that that's what it looks like.
And so that's new and it's coming along.
Cliff Duvernois (15:48):
The one thing I have to say I like about the One Degree event,
and this is something that I've seen atall of them, is we all start off with the
same question, what can I do to help you?
Terry Duperon (15:57):
Yeah.
Cliff Duvernois (15:58):
It's not a networking event where everybody is
saying, you walk in there and say,how can I get business from this?
Right.
How can I get a client from this?
Yeah.
Everybody walks in that room and says toeach other, what can I do to help you?
Terry Duperon (16:09):
Yeah.
And that's the objective.
And if we can create thatculture where that's just what
we do, that's the intent of it.
So now I got 12 startups and I want tohave a place for them to meet and to go.
Now, this building we're in,bought this just for startups.
So we're remodeling it, settingit all up for startup businesses.
(16:31):
So there's a lot of offices.
There's some lounge areas.
There's a hall for the One Degree Club.
And we're going to, we'regoing to do the classes here.
Great.
there's so much to learn, becauseevery business is different.
actually, what helps peopleis to be in their 30s, okay?
Because they've had enough mistakesin their life, enough failures
that, not scaring them so much.
(16:52):
But I think the reason that there's only7 percent of the country is, entrepreneurs
is because we're taught to fear failure.
So, the best gift I got from myschool years, I learned how to fail.
I don't like it, never feelsgood, but it doesn't, own me.
It doesn't control what I do.
I can accept failure, but I can'taccept not trying, you know.
(17:14):
Yes.
That's big.
So that's how I ended up in that class.
I walked in there because I'm not, I canhandle the humiliation of failure, but
I can't handle quitting before I try.
Yeah,
Cliff Duvernois (17:29):
and what you're talking about there, and I've seen this so much
is, and I, I've even been guilty of thismyself on times, you don't even want to
try because you're afraid you've alreadyconvinced yourself you're going to fail.
Terry Duperon (17:40):
Yeah.
Cliff Duvernois (17:40):
So if I already know I'm going to fail, why even try?
Terry Duperon (17:44):
Yeah, where I have a good chance of failure
and I'm going to give it a shot.
And I'm finding out that if you don't bethe one that limits you, very little does.
I mean, there's a university settingwhere I'm totally on and not equipped for.
But they kept me.
I learned and I learned and I learned.
I'm starting to, in studying what makes,what's chara some of the characteristics
(18:06):
of who's most likely to succeed.
And this is simplification of it.
Some people have at it withoutknowing what they're doing because
they believe they'll figure it out.
Okay, those are also ourleaders in a company.
It's just the differencebetween a good leader and an
entrepreneur is the amount of risk.
But a good leader is risking, he'srisking embarrassment, he's risking,
(18:30):
he's leading, he can do things wrong.
an entrepreneur willjust do it from nothing.
Okay, and start with nothing.
Where a good, leader in the company,there's something to start with.
So there's a difference, but a lotof the characteristics are the same.
Now the, so I've been looking at DuParentCorporation, looking at its leaders.
(18:51):
And I'm trying to figure outwhy this seems to work well.
for example, we have, Mike,who is project manager.
We want to go into international,we want to go into Mexico.
Well, we thought couldspeak Spanish, he can't.
But anyways, he wanted to step upto work on the international side.
(19:12):
Now, Mike has no training.
No school.
He's not, did not, don't went to college.
Never read a book oninternational marketing.
He's our international marketingguy, because he'll just have at it.
Okay, what the advantage of just havingat it is, knowing what you're doing, is
that everything you touch is real time.
So he's talking to aninternational customer.
(19:36):
Now, not a book he read five years ago.
Okay.
He's talking to him now.
He's learning from thatcustomer right now.
So everything he learns is in real time.
So now he's got to work, he's workingon a job in Baghdad and so now he's
got to work with the World Bank.
He didn't know the World Bank.
But he starts calling around,he starts calling all the
(19:57):
agencies that will help us here.
Now he's learning theWorld Bank as it is today.
In present time.
So everything he learns is real time.
That's what makes him so valuable.
He's put us in Columbia, Peru,Baghdad, Italy, New Zealand, Australia.
They come to my mind right now.
Cliff Duvernois (20:18):
And for somebody who doesn't have, yes,
never, doesn't have his degree.
He doesn't have his degree ininternational marketing, no experience
in international marketing, butyet he's really done a wonderful
job of expanding your footprint.
Terry Duperon (20:30):
Amazing job because everything he learns
is now it's in the present.
So to me, that person that will justhave at it, that knows he will figure
it out, I'm making a lot of noise here.
The person that'll justhave at it is so valuable.
Because of the way he learns in real time.
(20:51):
There's and he, now that helearns it, he can apply it.
Okay.
We just talked to Israel, I mean, he'sgot people coming from everywhere.
so the, how's a guy that don'tknow what he's doing do that?
There's a certain characteristicsof people who excel.
you gotta have them same talents.
You gotta be able to just have at itwithout knowing what you're doing.
Cause you know you'll figure it out.
(21:12):
Cause you started a new business.
And when you start a business,there ain't much you know about it.
That's true.
a few things and the restis learned on the job.
You know, the rest is learnedtrial and error by mistakes.
The One Degree Club is to supportanybody who wants to do anything.
And that they get to know each other.
And you'll find people you trust and youwant to work with and, so it's social
(21:33):
enough to just get to know each other.
And then pick the peopleyou feel confident in.
I want to do more startupsof all different kinds.
Because the description I give youabout a really early startup and
the fear of failure and then someof the things I could put in place
about that was to be a mentor.
As we go more and more,there's more and more startups.
(21:57):
They're all different.
They all need different things.
So I'm trying to pin down what that is.
What works when you put it inplace, so it's all trial and error.
And so some of it's working, someof it I don't understand yet.
So I think this is going tobe, two million dollar study
by the time I get done with it.
(22:19):
To learn exactly what it is I want toknow, but I think it'll be a good book.
I think it would be a valuable bookto people who deal with leaders to
know what works and what don't work.
And so I think hopefully I'llmake it up with the book.
Cliff Duvernois (22:34):
Hopefully so.
for audience, we're going to take aquick break and thank our sponsors.
Once again, today we're talkingwith Terry Duperon of the Duperon
Corporation, as well as Duperon Education.
And we will see you after the break.
Are you enjoying this episode?
Well, I can tell youthere's a lot more to come.
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(22:57):
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Hello, everyone.
Welcome back to Total Michigan, wherewe interview ordinary Michiganders
doing some pretty extraordinary things.
I'm your host, Cliff DuVernois.
(23:17):
Today, we are joined by Terry Duperon,founder of Duperon Education, Duperon
Corporation, all around nice guy.
Well, thank you.
Yes.
Before the break, we were talking about.
About the class and putting togetherthe class and how you really don't
have any real formal training anddoing this, but you did put it
together and the class really is.
I recommend anybody who's listening tothis to definitely sign up for the class.
(23:40):
If you haven't done it really isgood and it really is worthwhile.
What I would like to do is I wouldlike to first off talk a little
bit about the purpose of the class.
Right.
What is the outcome?
Like somebody signs up for theclass and they walk away from it.
what is it that you'rehoping that they get from it?
Terry Duperon (23:59):
I hope they get a little better look at who they
are and where they want to go.
when I talk about dreams, a dreamis just hope for a better future.
Or a future that you would like.
And then the class is in,how do you cause that?
What skills do you need to cause that?
So the focus is, figure out who you are,where you want to go, and I can show you
ways to cause, a way to cause it, andnot the way, because everybody will do
(24:24):
their own version of that, but a way.
But the class is not set up to saveanybody's soul, or to, it doesn't have
that purpose, it, it isn't there to, Fixanybody, because I don't know anybody
broken, you know, it's just take a lookat this and see if it works for you.
See if it betters you.
So I get a lot of people comeback and say, change your life
(24:45):
and not, I never asked them, well,how did it change their life?
Because it seems like I'd be putting themon the spot, but, Oh, I think you should.
Cliff Duvernois (24:54):
Should do that study probably.
If they're going to make that boldof a statement, the class changed
their life, you should ask how.
In what
Terry Duperon (25:00):
way?
I should.
I have not.
It seems like when somebody says that,it's like a nice thing to say, and I
don't want to put them on the spot,but maybe I should follow up on that.
Oh, you should definitelyput them on the spot.
Cliff Duvernois (25:13):
I say that because when we're talking about Like people
taking the class and a lot of them comein and they don't know the direction
that they're heading or, or whatever.
Some of the things that I foundinteresting when I took the class,
like I talked about before aboutthe first time that I took it
was literally about the show.
Terry Duperon (25:30):
Yeah.
Right.
Cliff Duvernois (25:30):
And the direction I wanted to go.
And I had some ideas that I, I reallywanted to explore, but I wasn't exactly
sure what had happened, but there was ayoung lady sitting in the classroom and
hers was, I think it was a trip to Paris.
Okay, that was like, that was like herdream and she revealed that in class.
So it's not necessarily, it has to bebusiness centric, you know, it's what is
(25:52):
next for you, whether that's taking thatEuropean vacation, you've always dreamed
of, maybe it is starting this, maybeit's starting a nonprofit, who knows?
So it just seemed like there was alot of, there's a lot of different
people with different dreams.
That come in there thatyour class accommodates.
Terry Duperon (26:07):
And some of them figure out how they're going to do it.
I had a professor in a class who wantedto take students to Africa, to Ghana,
because she was connected to Ghana, toanother professor at the university.
that was her dream, but she didn'tsee any way she could possibly
do that, because it costs a lot.
So I said, How manystudents you want to take?
(26:30):
And she said, I don't know, 12.
I said, well, what would it cost for planetickets, you know, 10 days in Africa?
She says, it probably costs 4, 000.
I says, I'll buy two students.
Okay, now you got two students.
All you have to do is find somebodyelse, sponsor the rest of them.
And she did it.
Yeah, she did it.
She built it up.
(26:51):
And she's taken several times, severalyears now, she's taken students.
She's in a world where thatentrepreneurship is, a foreign
language in the education system.
Because you teach what youlearned and you spit it out and
teach it again to somebody else.
I've seen it happen in the class.
Cliff Duvernois (27:10):
I want to explore, because I love these things.
People that know you call them T isms.
Terry Duperon (27:14):
Yeah.
Cliff Duvernois (27:15):
These little sayings that you use and you've put,
you put out about four or five ofthem today during this interview.
But the one that I love the most.
Personally, that really resonateswith me is Take the Next Clear Step.
Yeah.
Yes.
So talk to us a little bitabout what that meeting is.
Where did that even come from?
Terry Duperon (27:34):
I have, I had, I built a business doing up to 5 million
projects and then I lost everything Ihad plus a million bucks I didn't have.
So that's a hot spot.
Cliff Duvernois (27:44):
Yeah.
You're looking at bankruptcy, right?
Terry Duperon (27:46):
Yeah.
Well, I didn't have enoughmoney to go bankrupt.
Cliff Duvernois (27:49):
So you got plenty
Terry Duperon (27:50):
to go.
uh, the thing that saved me, I wasso poor, I owed a million dollars
on a hundred thousand dollar house.
So, nobody sues you.
But they try.
So, I spent a really rough year.
Well, anyways, I fight the good fight.
I'm going to, I get subpoenas every day.
I'm in court all the time.
And I can't pay them.
They should be upset.
So I'm the bad guy.
(28:11):
I can't, you know, I'm thevillain here in this story.
So, I fight the goodfight for about a year.
And then I just fell apart.
And I retreated to bed.
The End.
And I just lay there.
And I, I remember, I pray, okay.
I'm telling God I got nothing.
I don't have another idea.
(28:32):
I have no idea how I'llget out of this mess.
I have no idea, if I got up, Iwouldn't know what, what I should do.
You know, so I just lay here.
And all that muddle and confusion,this one clear thought shows up, and
it was do only what's clear, So, Ithought, probably clear to get my butt
out of bed, been a while, I'll do that.
(28:55):
And it's clear to take a shower,it's been a while, I do that.
Clear to go to the office, answerthe phone, I answer the phone.
I owe this person in Californiaservice on the machine.
So, I tell them my situation.
And he said, and I said, I, Ican't, I would, I feel I owe you.
But I'm not in a position to do it becauseof the problems I'm having right now.
(29:17):
But I do owe you that service.
And he says, if you give me themen and equipment and the cranes
and stuff you need to do it, Iwill find a way to get there.
So that was clear, clear to say that.
I get on a plane, I got a, it waslike a 120 flight there and back,
and I'm staying in flop housesbecause I, again, I didn't owe any.
(29:40):
They gimme the crew.
I provided, I did what myresponsibility was, flew back.
So all I did is start oneclear thought at a time.
So I started to live that every day.
Not, I didn't mastermindmy way out of that.
I just did the next clear step.
That was when I was 53, I think,And I've been doing it ever since.
(30:02):
Here's where this endsup in my belief system.
I believe everything that happenedin the past, including this problem
I had, that crisis was the bestthing that ever happened to me.
Changed the way I had my faith,it changed the way I do business.
I would never have the successif I had not gone through that.
So, I value the past.
So, I look at all the events in thepast, and there's a lot of things
(30:26):
that did not go well as gifts.
Because I think wisdom is, It's goodjudgment learned from bad judgment.
So all of these things, I like that.
Is that another T ism?
It should be, right?
But all of those things in the past giveme some wisdom, some, and it has a value.
(30:46):
And not only that, I think Godturns things into being from that
to something really good for you.
So you get wisdom and you get.
this gift, okay?
So I think that anything Isay about the future is BS.
I mean, I made it up.
You know, I can say I'm going to gohome, kiss the wife, have supper,
I may not get across that street.
(31:07):
Yet, I would think Ican predict the future.
I can't.
So where it boils down where I amtoday and have been for quite a
while, by the way, three years later,I didn't even have a car payment.
I did not mastermind my way out of that.
I just kept taking the next clear step.
I continue to do this, the next clearstep, and I, it, I value the past as
(31:30):
a gift it gives, so I don't regretit, and I can't undo it anyhow, so,
I don't go into the future becauseit's made up, you know, I can make
any story I want, it doesn't matter.
it's the future.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
I know it.
all I have is the present, So now, Iwas an atheist for a long time, and
as I started to find God, which is along story, I started to, let's see,
(31:50):
I'm going to backtrack a little bit.
Somebody told me that I had a teacher anda guide, a Holy Spirit, you know, and I'm
developing a relationship with my Creator,little at a time, slow process for me.
So I say, all right, I'llaccept that possibility that
I have a teacher and a guide.
Well, it's got to talk to me.
So I'm saying, how woulda Holy Spirit talk to me?
(32:10):
And I thought it would be clear.
I'm the author of MuddledConfusion, that would be clear.
So I know what I know, I trust myown mind, I take the next clear step.
I don't know when I getguidance, but I'm open to it.
I've been doing thatnow for a lot of years.
This interview today isbecause it's a clear step.
(32:32):
I have no idea what's going tohappen next, where this is going
to go, nor do I want to find out.
I don't, because youcan't, you can't find out.
You're guessing.
So it's all I can do, knowwhat I know, take the next
step, put my toe in the water.
I have enough faith to do that.
I have enough trust in mycreator to not ask for two steps.
Because for some reason, it'snever been a fortune teller for me.
(32:55):
And I suck at being a fortune teller.
I'm always wrong.
So I quit doing that.
So I just live in this justone clear step at a time.
Very freeing.
Brings a lot of peace.
All of that has been a real gift to me.
So now I live a lifewhere I just love my life.
I'm at peace.
Not always.
I get days.
I get days I don't like me, let alone you.
(33:18):
I don't like nobody, but I,you know, we're just human.
As long as we're human, we have that.
Cliff Duvernois (33:24):
Now when you're designing the class and you're putting it together.
You know, the lecture notes, whatever.
Actually, I don't even thinkyou really have lecture notes.
No, but, I don't have no notes.
Yeah, no notes.
You just stand up thereand talk, which is great.
What gave you the idea to sprinkling?
Because you got a wholebunch of these T isms.
We could probably spend, I don't know, thenext four or five episodes just covering
(33:45):
all the different T isms that you have.
But what made you decide to bakethese T isms into your class?
Terry Duperon (33:51):
I was doing a, a class at Saginaw Valley.
We're going to dosomething to put it online.
And I was talking to the peoplethat do that at Saginaw Valley.
So we put a class together.
And they get, they get full classes, itseems, no matter what you're teaching.
So, pretty soon I got a full class.
So I'm teaching the class.
And this lady's writingdown everything I say.
(34:14):
And then she handed me thiswhole list of comments I made,
and she called them theisms.
And so that's where that came from.
She was writing them down.
And then, we took, we decidedto go through it and, uh, see
why I'm saying those things.
I, cause I, I, I don't have, you know,I hate to talk too much about spiritual
things because I never read the Bible.
(34:37):
Okay, so everybody knows more about thatthan I do, I tell stories to make a point.
Most of the stories are from personalexperience, because I have no choice.
I don't have anything else.
So if the story I tell doesn'twork, I don't have anything else.
Okay.
I can't quote a book.
(34:57):
Okay.
I can't.
I can quote somebody that I heard,but most of them is personal stories.
Mm hmm.
You know, so the class consistsof a lot of those stories.
Each, in, to the class, each step hasmethod in the madness, Because one of the
things I find out in the class is thatpeople are really hard on themselves.
(35:18):
They find all kinds of faultin themselves, and they
judge themselves harshly.
to get them to see who they are,I got to get them to, in the first
three sessions, I got to get themto see them, because I'm going to
show them how to see opportunities.
Because I see so many, Ican't possibly do them all.
(35:38):
I have to pick and choose.
Well, opportunities are just raw.
So what I'm trying to do is thefirst question you should ask when
you see an opportunity, does it takeme, take it, take me closer to me?
Does it fit this man or this woman?
So I'm realizing they find somuch fault with that person.
I don't really see them.
I, uh, have experience with that,so I try and apply it to the class.
(36:01):
So I ask questions like, write downfive strengths and five weaknesses, and
you got to get up and talk about it.
for one thing, I want to talkabout something personal that
matters to them, to share withthe class, because class bonds.
Yes, they do.
And another thing is, when they get alldone, I just tell them, Cross off the
weaknesses you got here on your strengths,you didn't get here on your weakness.
(36:23):
The more time you spend withyour weakness, the less time you
got to go with your strengths.
I'm trying to shift just alittle bit, a little bit.
And I tell stories aboutmy own personal experience.
And I tell about I, I was married,had five kids, divorced, single parent
with five kids for 2, 000 years.
(36:45):
And I know it feels like it sometimes.
Yes.
I got way, way big challenge.
Men aren't good at that, but they,nobody died, so I did all right.
That's my, that's my measure.
So I get married again,have two more kids.
But,
Cliff Duvernois (37:02):
so Terry, why don't you tell us real quick?
What's next?
What is that next clear step?
Terry Duperon (37:10):
I won't know it till I see it.
It's not clear.
I don't do it.
It's clear.
I do it.
This is my next clear step.
I'm living it.
Do I know why this is so?
I don't know.
Cliff Duvernois (37:22):
just real quick, Terry, uh, for our audience,
if they want to check out.
One degree.
Terry Duperon (37:28):
Yeah.
Cliff Duvernois (37:29):
If they want to check out the class, where's the
best place for them to do that?
Terry Duperon (37:33):
Call Cindy.
Call Cindy.
Yes.
Cindy's my assistant, and uh, she canread and write, and she can keep notes.
So, see, I, I heavily rely on her,but she is, fills in those spots.
Cliff Duvernois (37:47):
For our audience, we'll have those links all
in the show notes down below.
Terry.
It's been great having you on the show.
We need to do this more often.
Terry Duperon (37:53):
anytime you want.
Cliff Duvernois (37:55):
As long as it's the next clear step,
Terry Duperon (37:56):
right?
Exactly.
So you got a chance.
Cause you didn't scare me too bad.
Cliff Duvernois (38:02):
Well, not like last time.
I think last time you were terrified.
So I think so too.
But you did great.
And, uh, for audience.
Yeah.
Like I said, you can get all thelinks to The Class, One Degree,
if you're wanting to check thatout in the show notes down below.
We'll see you next time when wetalk to another Michigander doing
some pretty extraordinary things.
We'll see you then.
I believe everything that happened in the past, including
(00:02):
this problem I had, that crisis was thebest thing that ever happened to me.
Changed the way I had my faith,it changed the way I do business.
I would never have the successif I had not gone through that.
So, I value the past.
Cliff Duvernois (00:15):
Hello, everyone.
And welcome back to total Michigan,where we interview ordinary Michiganders
doing some pretty extraordinary things.
I'm your host, Cliff DuVernois.
If you're saying to yourself,wow, things look different.
Well, I'm happy to report that we areactually filming this at our new studio.
That's what I'm calling it T for Terry.
We've got this wonderfulbuilding, this wonderful location.
(00:37):
And I foresee a lot of interviewsjust taking place here.
The show is growing.
And I'm just beyond excitedto make that happen.
And with that being said, I couldn'tthink of any better person to have on the
show to kick off this inaugural episode,the new things that are happening.
And there's definitely alot going on in his life.
(00:59):
He's actually been aprevious guest on the show.
That would be Terry Duperon.
He is the founder of the DuperonCorporation, as well as Duperon Education.
And if you want to get to know hisfull backstory, make sure to go back
and listen to episode 79 of the show.
We're actually going to do a quickrecap of that right now before
(01:19):
we jump into the meat of that.
But let's go ahead and get started.
Terry, how are you?
Terry Duperon (01:24):
I'm great so far.
Cliff Duvernois (01:26):
So far, yes.
It's been a while since youand I have sat down in front
of the microphones and chatted.
It is.
It's, it's always a newexperience when I do it.
Nice.
So Terry, let's explore yourbackstory just for a little bit.
Cause we got new listenershere, but talk to us a little
bit about where are you from?
Where did you grow up?
Terry Duperon (01:43):
I was raised on a farm in the Indian down, so I get them,
so I go to Michigan, Saginaw County,I, I grew up here till I was 18 got
married and, uh, moved not far away,but I moved to a different place.
But I went to school, a little,little school in Indian town,
a little, there was four in mygraduating class in the eighth grade.
Cliff Duvernois (02:05):
Now, was it, was it one of these schools where you had like
all the grades in the same classroom?
Okay.
All right.
Terry Duperon (02:10):
Well, we were bigger.
We had two rooms.
Two?
Big room and a little room.
Yeah.
We're coming up in the world.
And so you went from firstto fourth and then from fifth
to eighth in the other room.
that's where I got my education,which didn't go real well because
of the reading, writing problems.
then I went to Saginaw High.
Now this was about, thiswas in the fifties, right?
(02:31):
It would have been, uh,Oh, Lord, I was born in 43.
Cliff Duvernois (02:36):
So late 40s, early 50s?
Yeah.
Going to school?
Early 50s, yeah.
And when you talked before about thereading and writing problems, right?
And of course, people didn't knowthis at the time, but later on
you were diagnosed as dyslexic.
Terry Duperon (02:47):
Yeah.
and then I found out it's, apretty serious case because I,
I couldn't read and write and Ihave the attention span of a gnat.
I'm not coordinated, whichleaves a few fields out.
Athletic, it's not going to happenbecause of the coordination.
short in that story is that when Iwas in the, in the third grade, my
third grade teacher asked me to standup and read a first grade book, Dick
(03:10):
and Jane, and I couldn't read it.
I was in front of the class.
Everybody in my world's in that classroom.
I realized there'ssomething wrong with me.
I couldn't do what they could do.
That time, you're just not that smart.
Frank.
the first time I felt inferior, Igot sick to my stomach up there.
It was awful.
But in that, around that sametime, we, We studied inventors.
(03:31):
And they become my heroesbecause I believe they only did
one thing and they were rich.
So we're talking about,
Cliff Duvernois (03:35):
we're talking about inventors like Henry Ford.
Henry Ford,
Terry Duperon (03:38):
Edison.
Edison.
Yeah.
Whitney, that group.
And I was really impressed with that.
So I had this dream at that time at eightyears old, I was going to be an inventor
and make my living off my inventions.
The rest, I was flunking.
So that kept me going.
Um, So I spent a lot of time headedthat way, just tearing stuff apart,
trying to figure out how it works.
(03:59):
But when I was about 19, I got,my first patent and it said U.
S.
Patent Office, Terry Duperon Inventor.
Cliff Duvernois (04:06):
So if we break this down a little bit, just to go back
for there and give, give the audiencea little bit of a, of a clue, right.
You, you still struggle to readand write at this time, but you
still managed to get a patent.
Terry Duperon (04:17):
Yeah.
It's two different skills.
Yes.
and I had a mechanical aptitude, soI run with that aptitude, you know,
with that mechanical aptitude, Ilearned that success is nothing to do
what I'm not, run with what you got.
I had, I had that.
so when I got the patent, I rememberthe eighth grade, I remember making
this commitment to this dream of mine.
(04:38):
pretty unrealistic dreamif I told anybody I had it.
But it happened.
So then it become, how does athird grade boy cause that future?
then I decided it's got tobe in the way you, you think.
So I think whether you're successfulor not is all in the way you think.
I agree.
that led to do parent education.
Cliff Duvernois (04:58):
So before we jump into that real quick, just
to finish your story, okay.
Round it up.
you start finally, cause yougot more than one patent.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
One of your inventions actually takes off.
You have actually built a business.
Oh yeah.
Around, around that patent.
Right.
And at the time of the interview, if Iremember correctly, your company was set
to clear north of 20 million at that time.
Terry Duperon (05:19):
Yeah.
Now that's pushing
Cliff Duvernois (05:21):
50 seat.
That's awesome.
Terry Duperon (05:24):
Yeah.
Cliff Duvernois (05:25):
And these people growing up and I'm filling in your story a little
bit here, but a lot of people tellingyou, asking you why you were dumb,
you were stupid, why can't you read?
Yep.
But here you are, you've gone off andyou have somehow built this company.
You've got the rightgroup of people in place.
Now you employ dozens, 77.
People right now at 77 and these are,this is a combination of like really
(05:47):
smart engineers, engineers, projectmanagers, correctly, expensive people.
Yes.
Now for you yourself, cause you'rein your eighties now, you didn't
learn how to read until when?
Seven years ago, seven years ago.
I, uh, and you built all of that inspite of the fact that you've been right.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Terry Duperon (06:07):
So, seven years ago, I decided I would try to read, and I got
a book called Jesus Calling, and I wasgoing to spend a little spiritual time
in the morning, so I read one page.
And I really struggled to read that page.
So I read one page a day for seven years,same book, over and over and over again.
I still don't trust what Iread because I screw words up.
(06:29):
even when I think I have itmemorized, is the word close to that?
I mess it up.
. So, so I, I get enough out of it that,that I can read things to some degree,
but I, I don't read anything that Ihave to depend on without verifying
it, because you can put the wrongword in the sentence and it fits.
It's a whole different meaning.
(06:50):
Yes, that's true.
You know, anyways, I can read a bit.
Cliff Duvernois (06:54):
You were talking before about how you decided
to fire up Duperon education.
Yeah.
And I, I gotta say there's acertain irony here because you
are the high school dropout.
Yes.
You don't have a college degree,but you decided to start a school.
Terry Duperon (07:10):
Well, first I was asked by the Dean of Engineering
and Science at Saginaw Valley StateUniversity if I would, he knew I was
an entrepreneur, if I would talk, teachentrepreneurship to senior engineers.
Oh boy.
Yeah, what a challenge.
Joy.
it was an opportunity.
So I weigh everyopportunity by two things.
(07:30):
Number one, does this opportunitytake me closer to this man
God created or further away?
And I, I know who I am by thethings I love and care about
matter to me and make a difference.
And the other one, does it takeme closer to one of my dreams?
I have faith in dreams now becauseof my third grade dream happen.
I remember standing at the doorsaying, Terry, what are you doing here?
You don't know what a university does.
You don't know what a professor does.
(07:52):
You know, what makes you think youcan teach senior engineers anything?
But I remember, success hasnothing to do with what I'm not,
and never be the one that limitsis another phrase I hung on to.
So I'm not throwing me out before they do.
Good chance I'll get thrown out.
Because I have no idea what I'm doing.
But it fit me.
It fit who I am, where I wanted to go.
(08:13):
I wanted to grow thecompany 25 percent a year.
And I thought if I could teachpeople how to reinvent what they
do in themselves every year, youcould grow a company that fast.
So that, it was, it fit me, itfit where I wanted to go, it
fit who I am, the challenge did.
Whether I know how or not evidentlydoesn't seem to be in the equation.
So I went in there, screwed itup, I got, I panicked, tried to be
(08:38):
whatever I thought a professor was.
Put everybody in a coma in 10minutes, and I, I thought they're not
going to let me back, but they did.
So I asked a real teacher.
what's important when youteach anybody anything?
And she said that youknow where they're at.
So I started drawing on the board basedon let's figure out where they're at.
(09:00):
And then the class started to evolveand develop, the teaching aid developed.
And then after three years there,I thought if you're going to teach
it, you ought to be able to startyour own business, your own school.
So I started to do parent education.
There's the entrepreneur again.
Yeah.
So.
So now that's going on 20 some years.
How many students do you thinkhave gone through that program?
(09:21):
Oh, a couple thousand.
At least.
Yeah, there was six professorsfrom the university took this.
Cliff Duvernois (09:26):
Yeah, because it's been a collection, like you talk
about six professors university,but we're talking also like CEOs.
Oh, yeah.
Of, you know, big companies inthe area, we've had, professors
that have come through, but it'snot just, people that you might
think would be like overachievers.
Like in the first time that I tookthe class, you had somebody who
had a, like a lawn care business.
You know, you had an engineer that had apatent for a kitty litter box, you know?
(09:51):
Right.
So it literally was an eclecticmix of people and we all
got value from the class.
Terry Duperon (10:00):
what usually happens is when people come into the class,
they really don't know who theyare, where they're going, because
they just don't think about it.
You know, they're
Cliff Duvernois (10:07):
just busy.
Well, they're following the plan.
Terry Duperon (10:09):
Yeah.
Cliff Duvernois (10:10):
This is your life.
You work at a job for 40 yearsand then you retire and yeah.
Terry Duperon (10:15):
And everybody gets programmed and.
We all get programmed.
Yep.
And that's why there's not alot of entrepreneurs, because
we're not trained for that.
We're trained to, uh, help otherpeople achieve their dreams.
not your own.
Now the class, what I'm doing is expandingthat, where we can, I'm doing some
videos so other people can teach it.
(10:35):
Then, so I'm.
You're talking about an online version.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I don't have to be there.
So that's coming to play.
Cliff Duvernois (10:42):
So you have the class and the class is going on.
You've had students that aregoing through, you've got
this new project going on.
One of the things that happenednot too long after you and I had
our first interview back in theday was you started up One Degree.
Terry Duperon (10:58):
Yes, I, what I, what I got it, what I was doing before that is I
wanted to do startups, startup businesses.
And I was, now when you say do them, youwant to invest in them, invest in them.
Okay, I'm looking for an entrepreneuror want to be entrepreneur start with.
And I want to know the, I want to write,do another book, be my fifth book.
(11:20):
Can't read and write.
do books?
That's great.
So I, I want to do books.
The fifth, this fifth one is I wantto know why so many startups fail
and what can I put in place so theydon't fail and who's most likely to
succeed in the entrepreneur world.
(11:41):
Okay.
So I've got 12 startups right now.
I want to do 20 more.
And they're all different.
There's cafes and bakeriesand, gift shops and wood shops.
And, uh, just recently buyinga boat company and, uh,
three marketing companies.
They all different.
And what I do is, I'll pick the firstone I did was, Kay's Cafe in Frankenmuth.
(12:07):
The young girl is, 21 years old,out of culinary school, really
creative in the food she makes,wants to be in her own business.
So I'll use her as a first study.
It is a lot, I need togleam out a bit more.
So she asked me, she said,I found this little cafe.
So I said, I told you, ifyou wanted, we'll partner up.
(12:29):
So what that partner lookslike is I own 51 percent.
I buy the material.
she owns 49, and then theobjective is she buys me out.
I don't have a profit in this.
I'm, the study is my profit.
I do that for her, so I buy the equipmentand get her set up, and then she takes
it and makes her own wages, about twomonths in it, she says, I ate this.
(12:53):
This is the worst job I've ever had.
Because it's tough going fromemployee to business owner.
Oh my gosh.
she's young and I know thatwhere she's been trained.
If you look at our school system,failure is heavily punished.
Failure is not acceptable.
if you're in a second grade and youflunk, you don't get to third grade.
If you flunk a test, you get exposedto the class as being not smart enough.
(13:16):
Or you don't get your diploma,or you don't get your degree.
failure is heavily punished.
Right up to doctor's degrees.
So, she's coming out of a systemwhere failure is unacceptable.
And I'm putting her in a systemwhere failure is essential.
It's trial and error.
Because that's where youdo most of your learning.
Pretty much all of it.
(13:37):
You try things, they work, some don't.
two months into it, she don't knowhow many eggs to have, she don't
know how much help to have, andshe's making mistakes right and left.
she's feeling anxiety and overwhelmand depression, which I know she's
gonna, because there's this transition.
So I tell her, I'm her I'mher champion, her coach.
And I tell her that you're goingto wonder where the love of God
(14:00):
went here in the next few months.
So you are, have to make this transition.
You're gonna have to run the gauntlet.
I tell her, if you hold the course, you'llcome out of this wiser and stronger.
So she holds the course, andabout 11 months into it, she said,
You know, I'll make mistakes,but I think I can handle that.
(14:20):
And I got really excitedbecause she's making it.
She's got faith in herself, faith inthe endeavor, and faith in how do we
show itself, that she'll figure it out.
Then she started to grow.
She tried catering, which really expanded.
So the, One Degree Club isto help people like her.
The whole purpose of the OneDegree Club, let me first start
with the name, One Degree.
(14:42):
I've never met anybody inmy life that hasn't changed
my life at least one degree.
You're one of them changed my life.
Okay, so I, that's wherethe name come from.
And we're there to be champions,to have champions, and to be
mentors and to have mentors.
Because these startups or thesepeople trying something new,
we need champions and mentors.
(15:04):
And we need to be it, and weneed to mentor other people.
But you always have somethingto give and to learn.
So that's the purpose of OneDegree Club, to fill that gap.
That's what I'm trying to putin place so they don't fail.
They have the strength of peoplethey know that they can trust
and they develop relationships.
that's where that came from.
So we're still doing that, and thatseems to be doing alright right now.
(15:25):
And again,
Cliff Duvernois (15:26):
that's another program that's basically open to anyone.
Yeah.
You don't have to be a business owner.
You could be Yeah,everybody can come here.
Anybody can come and be a part of that.
Terry Duperon (15:34):
Yeah, and everybody has something to offer.
If you've lived any life at all,there are people that need you.
And then there's people you need.
So it's a matter of developing aculture that that's what it looks like.
And so that's new and it's coming along.
Cliff Duvernois (15:48):
The one thing I have to say I like about the One Degree event,
and this is something that I've seen atall of them, is we all start off with the
same question, what can I do to help you?
Terry Duperon (15:57):
Yeah.
Cliff Duvernois (15:58):
It's not a networking event where everybody is
saying, you walk in there and say,how can I get business from this?
Right.
How can I get a client from this?
Yeah.
Everybody walks in that room and says toeach other, what can I do to help you?
Terry Duperon (16:09):
Yeah.
And that's the objective.
And if we can create thatculture where that's just what
we do, that's the intent of it.
So now I got 12 startups and I want tohave a place for them to meet and to go.
Now, this building we're in,bought this just for startups.
So we're remodeling it, settingit all up for startup businesses.
(16:31):
So there's a lot of offices.
There's some lounge areas.
There's a hall for the One Degree Club.
And we're going to, we'regoing to do the classes here.
Great.
there's so much to learn, becauseevery business is different.
actually, what helps peopleis to be in their 30s, okay?
Because they've had enough mistakesin their life, enough failures
that, not scaring them so much.
(16:52):
But I think the reason that there's only7 percent of the country is, entrepreneurs
is because we're taught to fear failure.
So, the best gift I got from myschool years, I learned how to fail.
I don't like it, never feelsgood, but it doesn't, own me.
It doesn't control what I do.
I can accept failure, but I can'taccept not trying, you know.
(17:14):
Yes.
That's big.
So that's how I ended up in that class.
I walked in there because I'm not, I canhandle the humiliation of failure, but
I can't handle quitting before I try.
Yeah,
Cliff Duvernois (17:29):
and what you're talking about there, and I've seen this so much
is, and I, I've even been guilty of thismyself on times, you don't even want to
try because you're afraid you've alreadyconvinced yourself you're going to fail.
Terry Duperon (17:40):
Yeah.
Cliff Duvernois (17:40):
So if I already know I'm going to fail, why even try?
Terry Duperon (17:44):
Yeah, where I have a good chance of failure
and I'm going to give it a shot.
And I'm finding out that if you don't bethe one that limits you, very little does.
I mean, there's a university settingwhere I'm totally on and not equipped for.
But they kept me.
I learned and I learned and I learned.
I'm starting to, in studying what makes,what's chara some of the characteristics
(18:06):
of who's most likely to succeed.
And this is simplification of it.
Some people have at it withoutknowing what they're doing because
they believe they'll figure it out.
Okay, those are also ourleaders in a company.
It's just the differencebetween a good leader and an
entrepreneur is the amount of risk.
But a good leader is risking, he'srisking embarrassment, he's risking,
(18:30):
he's leading, he can do things wrong.
an entrepreneur willjust do it from nothing.
Okay, and start with nothing.
Where a good, leader in the company,there's something to start with.
So there's a difference, but a lotof the characteristics are the same.
Now the, so I've been looking at DuParentCorporation, looking at its leaders.
(18:51):
And I'm trying to figure outwhy this seems to work well.
for example, we have, Mike,who is project manager.
We want to go into international,we want to go into Mexico.
Well, we thought couldspeak Spanish, he can't.
But anyways, he wanted to step upto work on the international side.
(19:12):
Now, Mike has no training.
No school.
He's not, did not, don't went to college.
Never read a book oninternational marketing.
He's our international marketingguy, because he'll just have at it.
Okay, what the advantage of just havingat it is, knowing what you're doing, is
that everything you touch is real time.
So he's talking to aninternational customer.
(19:36):
Now, not a book he read five years ago.
Okay.
He's talking to him now.
He's learning from thatcustomer right now.
So everything he learns is in real time.
So now he's got to work, he's workingon a job in Baghdad and so now he's
got to work with the World Bank.
He didn't know the World Bank.
But he starts calling around,he starts calling all the
(19:57):
agencies that will help us here.
Now he's learning theWorld Bank as it is today.
In present time.
So everything he learns is real time.
That's what makes him so valuable.
He's put us in Columbia, Peru,Baghdad, Italy, New Zealand, Australia.
They come to my mind right now.
Cliff Duvernois (20:18):
And for somebody who doesn't have, yes,
never, doesn't have his degree.
He doesn't have his degree ininternational marketing, no experience
in international marketing, butyet he's really done a wonderful
job of expanding your footprint.
Terry Duperon (20:30):
Amazing job because everything he learns
is now it's in the present.
So to me, that person that will justhave at it, that knows he will figure
it out, I'm making a lot of noise here.
The person that'll justhave at it is so valuable.
Because of the way he learns in real time.
(20:51):
There's and he, now that helearns it, he can apply it.
Okay.
We just talked to Israel, I mean, he'sgot people coming from everywhere.
so the, how's a guy that don'tknow what he's doing do that?
There's a certain characteristicsof people who excel.
you gotta have them same talents.
You gotta be able to just have at itwithout knowing what you're doing.
Cause you know you'll figure it out.
(21:12):
Cause you started a new business.
And when you start a business,there ain't much you know about it.
That's true.
a few things and the restis learned on the job.
You know, the rest is learnedtrial and error by mistakes.
The One Degree Club is to supportanybody who wants to do anything.
And that they get to know each other.
And you'll find people you trust and youwant to work with and, so it's social
(21:33):
enough to just get to know each other.
And then pick the peopleyou feel confident in.
I want to do more startupsof all different kinds.
Because the description I give youabout a really early startup and
the fear of failure and then someof the things I could put in place
about that was to be a mentor.
As we go more and more,there's more and more startups.
(21:57):
They're all different.
They all need different things.
So I'm trying to pin down what that is.
What works when you put it inplace, so it's all trial and error.
And so some of it's working, someof it I don't understand yet.
So I think this is going tobe, two million dollar study
by the time I get done with it.
(22:19):
To learn exactly what it is I want toknow, but I think it'll be a good book.
I think it would be a valuable bookto people who deal with leaders to
know what works and what don't work.
And so I think hopefully I'llmake it up with the book.
Cliff Duvernois (22:34):
Hopefully so.
for audience, we're going to take aquick break and thank our sponsors.
Once again, today we're talkingwith Terry Duperon of the Duperon
Corporation, as well as Duperon Education.
And we will see you after the break.
Are you enjoying this episode?
Well, I can tell youthere's a lot more to come.
Jump over to TotalMichigan.
com, enter your email address,and get on our mailing list.
(22:57):
You'll get a list of the topfive episodes for the show.
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com, enter your email address today.
Hello, everyone.
Welcome back to Total Michigan, wherewe interview ordinary Michiganders
doing some pretty extraordinary things.
I'm your host, Cliff DuVernois.
(23:17):
Today, we are joined by Terry Duperon,founder of Duperon Education, Duperon
Corporation, all around nice guy.
Well, thank you.
Yes.
Before the break, we were talking about.
About the class and putting togetherthe class and how you really don't
have any real formal training anddoing this, but you did put it
together and the class really is.
I recommend anybody who's listening tothis to definitely sign up for the class.
(23:40):
If you haven't done it really isgood and it really is worthwhile.
What I would like to do is I wouldlike to first off talk a little
bit about the purpose of the class.
Right.
What is the outcome?
Like somebody signs up for theclass and they walk away from it.
what is it that you'rehoping that they get from it?
Terry Duperon (23:59):
I hope they get a little better look at who they
are and where they want to go.
when I talk about dreams, a dreamis just hope for a better future.
Or a future that you would like.
And then the class is in,how do you cause that?
What skills do you need to cause that?
So the focus is, figure out who you are,where you want to go, and I can show you
ways to cause, a way to cause it, andnot the way, because everybody will do
(24:24):
their own version of that, but a way.
But the class is not set up to saveanybody's soul, or to, it doesn't have
that purpose, it, it isn't there to, Fixanybody, because I don't know anybody
broken, you know, it's just take a lookat this and see if it works for you.
See if it betters you.
So I get a lot of people comeback and say, change your life
(24:45):
and not, I never asked them, well,how did it change their life?
Because it seems like I'd be putting themon the spot, but, Oh, I think you should.
Cliff Duvernois (24:54):
Should do that study probably.
If they're going to make that boldof a statement, the class changed
their life, you should ask how.
In what
Terry Duperon (25:00):
way?
I should.
I have not.
It seems like when somebody says that,it's like a nice thing to say, and I
don't want to put them on the spot,but maybe I should follow up on that.
Oh, you should definitelyput them on the spot.
Cliff Duvernois (25:13):
I say that because when we're talking about Like people
taking the class and a lot of them comein and they don't know the direction
that they're heading or, or whatever.
Some of the things that I foundinteresting when I took the class,
like I talked about before aboutthe first time that I took it
was literally about the show.
Terry Duperon (25:30):
Yeah.
Right.
Cliff Duvernois (25:30):
And the direction I wanted to go.
And I had some ideas that I, I reallywanted to explore, but I wasn't exactly
sure what had happened, but there was ayoung lady sitting in the classroom and
hers was, I think it was a trip to Paris.
Okay, that was like, that was like herdream and she revealed that in class.
So it's not necessarily, it has to bebusiness centric, you know, it's what is
(25:52):
next for you, whether that's taking thatEuropean vacation, you've always dreamed
of, maybe it is starting this, maybeit's starting a nonprofit, who knows?
So it just seemed like there was alot of, there's a lot of different
people with different dreams.
That come in there thatyour class accommodates.
Terry Duperon (26:07):
And some of them figure out how they're going to do it.
I had a professor in a class who wantedto take students to Africa, to Ghana,
because she was connected to Ghana, toanother professor at the university.
that was her dream, but she didn'tsee any way she could possibly
do that, because it costs a lot.
So I said, How manystudents you want to take?
(26:30):
And she said, I don't know, 12.
I said, well, what would it cost for planetickets, you know, 10 days in Africa?
She says, it probably costs 4, 000.
I says, I'll buy two students.
Okay, now you got two students.
All you have to do is find somebodyelse, sponsor the rest of them.
And she did it.
Yeah, she did it.
She built it up.
(26:51):
And she's taken several times, severalyears now, she's taken students.
She's in a world where thatentrepreneurship is, a foreign
language in the education system.
Because you teach what youlearned and you spit it out and
teach it again to somebody else.
I've seen it happen in the class.
Cliff Duvernois (27:10):
I want to explore, because I love these things.
People that know you call them T isms.
Terry Duperon (27:14):
Yeah.
Cliff Duvernois (27:15):
These little sayings that you use and you've put,
you put out about four or five ofthem today during this interview.
But the one that I love the most.
Personally, that really resonateswith me is Take the Next Clear Step.
Yeah.
Yes.
So talk to us a little bitabout what that meeting is.
Where did that even come from?
Terry Duperon (27:34):
I have, I had, I built a business doing up to 5 million
projects and then I lost everything Ihad plus a million bucks I didn't have.
So that's a hot spot.
Cliff Duvernois (27:44):
Yeah.
You're looking at bankruptcy, right?
Terry Duperon (27:46):
Yeah.
Well, I didn't have enoughmoney to go bankrupt.
Cliff Duvernois (27:49):
So you got plenty
Terry Duperon (27:50):
to go.
uh, the thing that saved me, I wasso poor, I owed a million dollars
on a hundred thousand dollar house.
So, nobody sues you.
But they try.
So, I spent a really rough year.
Well, anyways, I fight the good fight.
I'm going to, I get subpoenas every day.
I'm in court all the time.
And I can't pay them.
They should be upset.
So I'm the bad guy.
(28:11):
I can't, you know, I'm thevillain here in this story.
So, I fight the goodfight for about a year.
And then I just fell apart.
And I retreated to bed.
The End.
And I just lay there.
And I, I remember, I pray, okay.
I'm telling God I got nothing.
I don't have another idea.
(28:32):
I have no idea how I'llget out of this mess.
I have no idea, if I got up, Iwouldn't know what, what I should do.
You know, so I just lay here.
And all that muddle and confusion,this one clear thought shows up, and
it was do only what's clear, So, Ithought, probably clear to get my butt
out of bed, been a while, I'll do that.
(28:55):
And it's clear to take a shower,it's been a while, I do that.
Clear to go to the office, answerthe phone, I answer the phone.
I owe this person in Californiaservice on the machine.
So, I tell them my situation.
And he said, and I said, I, Ican't, I would, I feel I owe you.
But I'm not in a position to do it becauseof the problems I'm having right now.
(29:17):
But I do owe you that service.
And he says, if you give me themen and equipment and the cranes
and stuff you need to do it, Iwill find a way to get there.
So that was clear, clear to say that.
I get on a plane, I got a, it waslike a 120 flight there and back,
and I'm staying in flop housesbecause I, again, I didn't owe any.
(29:40):
They gimme the crew.
I provided, I did what myresponsibility was, flew back.
So all I did is start oneclear thought at a time.
So I started to live that every day.
Not, I didn't mastermindmy way out of that.
I just did the next clear step.
That was when I was 53, I think,And I've been doing it ever since.
(30:02):
Here's where this endsup in my belief system.
I believe everything that happenedin the past, including this problem
I had, that crisis was the bestthing that ever happened to me.
Changed the way I had my faith,it changed the way I do business.
I would never have the successif I had not gone through that.
So, I value the past.
So, I look at all the events in thepast, and there's a lot of things
(30:26):
that did not go well as gifts.
Because I think wisdom is, It's goodjudgment learned from bad judgment.
So all of these things, I like that.
Is that another T ism?
It should be, right?
But all of those things in the past giveme some wisdom, some, and it has a value.
(30:46):
And not only that, I think Godturns things into being from that
to something really good for you.
So you get wisdom and you get.
this gift, okay?
So I think that anything Isay about the future is BS.
I mean, I made it up.
You know, I can say I'm going to gohome, kiss the wife, have supper,
I may not get across that street.
(31:07):
Yet, I would think Ican predict the future.
I can't.
So where it boils down where I amtoday and have been for quite a
while, by the way, three years later,I didn't even have a car payment.
I did not mastermind my way out of that.
I just kept taking the next clear step.
I continue to do this, the next clearstep, and I, it, I value the past as
(31:30):
a gift it gives, so I don't regretit, and I can't undo it anyhow, so,
I don't go into the future becauseit's made up, you know, I can make
any story I want, it doesn't matter.
it's the future.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
I know it.
all I have is the present, So now, Iwas an atheist for a long time, and
as I started to find God, which is along story, I started to, let's see,
(31:50):
I'm going to backtrack a little bit.
Somebody told me that I had a teacher anda guide, a Holy Spirit, you know, and I'm
developing a relationship with my Creator,little at a time, slow process for me.
So I say, all right, I'llaccept that possibility that
I have a teacher and a guide.
Well, it's got to talk to me.
So I'm saying, how woulda Holy Spirit talk to me?
(32:10):
And I thought it would be clear.
I'm the author of MuddledConfusion, that would be clear.
So I know what I know, I trust myown mind, I take the next clear step.
I don't know when I getguidance, but I'm open to it.
I've been doing thatnow for a lot of years.
This interview today isbecause it's a clear step.
(32:32):
I have no idea what's going tohappen next, where this is going
to go, nor do I want to find out.
I don't, because youcan't, you can't find out.
You're guessing.
So it's all I can do, knowwhat I know, take the next
step, put my toe in the water.
I have enough faith to do that.
I have enough trust in mycreator to not ask for two steps.
Because for some reason, it'snever been a fortune teller for me.
(32:55):
And I suck at being a fortune teller.
I'm always wrong.
So I quit doing that.
So I just live in this justone clear step at a time.
Very freeing.
Brings a lot of peace.
All of that has been a real gift to me.
So now I live a lifewhere I just love my life.
I'm at peace.
Not always.
I get days.
I get days I don't like me, let alone you.
(33:18):
I don't like nobody, but I,you know, we're just human.
As long as we're human, we have that.
Cliff Duvernois (33:24):
Now when you're designing the class and you're putting it together.
You know, the lecture notes, whatever.
Actually, I don't even thinkyou really have lecture notes.
No, but, I don't have no notes.
Yeah, no notes.
You just stand up thereand talk, which is great.
What gave you the idea to sprinkling?
Because you got a wholebunch of these T isms.
We could probably spend, I don't know, thenext four or five episodes just covering
(33:45):
all the different T isms that you have.
But what made you decide to bakethese T isms into your class?
Terry Duperon (33:51):
I was doing a, a class at Saginaw Valley.
We're going to dosomething to put it online.
And I was talking to the peoplethat do that at Saginaw Valley.
So we put a class together.
And they get, they get full classes, itseems, no matter what you're teaching.
So, pretty soon I got a full class.
So I'm teaching the class.
And this lady's writingdown everything I say.
(34:14):
And then she handed me thiswhole list of comments I made,
and she called them theisms.
And so that's where that came from.
She was writing them down.
And then, we took, we decidedto go through it and, uh, see
why I'm saying those things.
I, cause I, I, I don't have, you know,I hate to talk too much about spiritual
things because I never read the Bible.
(34:37):
Okay, so everybody knows more about thatthan I do, I tell stories to make a point.
Most of the stories are from personalexperience, because I have no choice.
I don't have anything else.
So if the story I tell doesn'twork, I don't have anything else.
Okay.
I can't quote a book.
(34:57):
Okay.
I can't.
I can quote somebody that I heard,but most of them is personal stories.
Mm hmm.
You know, so the class consistsof a lot of those stories.
Each, in, to the class, each step hasmethod in the madness, Because one of the
things I find out in the class is thatpeople are really hard on themselves.
(35:18):
They find all kinds of faultin themselves, and they
judge themselves harshly.
to get them to see who they are,I got to get them to, in the first
three sessions, I got to get themto see them, because I'm going to
show them how to see opportunities.
Because I see so many, Ican't possibly do them all.
(35:38):
I have to pick and choose.
Well, opportunities are just raw.
So what I'm trying to do is thefirst question you should ask when
you see an opportunity, does it takeme, take it, take me closer to me?
Does it fit this man or this woman?
So I'm realizing they find somuch fault with that person.
I don't really see them.
I, uh, have experience with that,so I try and apply it to the class.
(36:01):
So I ask questions like, write downfive strengths and five weaknesses, and
you got to get up and talk about it.
for one thing, I want to talkabout something personal that
matters to them, to share withthe class, because class bonds.
Yes, they do.
And another thing is, when they get alldone, I just tell them, Cross off the
weaknesses you got here on your strengths,you didn't get here on your weakness.
(36:23):
The more time you spend withyour weakness, the less time you
got to go with your strengths.
I'm trying to shift just alittle bit, a little bit.
And I tell stories aboutmy own personal experience.
And I tell about I, I was married,had five kids, divorced, single parent
with five kids for 2, 000 years.
(36:45):
And I know it feels like it sometimes.
Yes.
I got way, way big challenge.
Men aren't good at that, but they,nobody died, so I did all right.
That's my, that's my measure.
So I get married again,have two more kids.
But,
Cliff Duvernois (37:02):
so Terry, why don't you tell us real quick?
What's next?
What is that next clear step?
Terry Duperon (37:10):
I won't know it till I see it.
It's not clear.
I don't do it.
It's clear.
I do it.
This is my next clear step.
I'm living it.
Do I know why this is so?
I don't know.
Cliff Duvernois (37:22):
just real quick, Terry, uh, for our audience,
if they want to check out.
One degree.
Terry Duperon (37:28):
Yeah.
Cliff Duvernois (37:29):
If they want to check out the class, where's the
best place for them to do that?
Terry Duperon (37:33):
Call Cindy.
Call Cindy.
Yes.
Cindy's my assistant, and uh, she canread and write, and she can keep notes.
So, see, I, I heavily rely on her,but she is, fills in those spots.
Cliff Duvernois (37:47):
For our audience, we'll have those links all
in the show notes down below.
Terry.
It's been great having you on the show.
We need to do this more often.
Terry Duperon (37:53):
anytime you want.
Cliff Duvernois (37:55):
As long as it's the next clear step,
Terry Duperon (37:56):
right?
Exactly.
So you got a chance.
Cause you didn't scare me too bad.
Cliff Duvernois (38:02):
Well, not like last time.
I think last time you were terrified.
So I think so too.
But you did great.
And, uh, for audience.
Yeah.
Like I said, you can get all thelinks to The Class, One Degree,
if you're wanting to check thatout in the show notes down below.
We'll see you next time when wetalk to another Michigander doing
some pretty extraordinary things.
We'll see you then.
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