August 22, 2025 • 30 mins
Redemption Hill Ranch is more than a farm — it’s a refuge where hurting hearts find hope. In this inspiring conversation, Sarah Buffman shares how God called her from city life to create a place where horses help people heal mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. From transforming the lives of struggling schoolchildren to helping adults rediscover their worth, Sarah reveals the powerful connection between horses, faith, and personal growth.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- How Sarah blends faith and equine therapy to help people overcome trauma and anxiety
- The surprising ways horses reflect our inner world
- A moving story of a child’s life transformed through horse therapy
- How COVID’s impact on mental health inspired new approaches in schools and communities
- Why healing is a process — and the role of resilience in lasting change
Resources & Links Mentioned in This Episode:
- Website: redemptionhillranch.org
- Facebook: Redemption Hill Ranch – Vassar
Address:
2265 Ringle Rd
Vassar, MI 48768
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sarah Buffman (00:00):
It's a God thing.
There's science behind how horsescan benefit the human brain.
With the chemicals of cortisolrelieving that stress hormone, they
can improve the levels of oxytocin.
They can make you feel happier.
They can help you breathe.
I don't know how to explain itother than God made them here.
He made them to be with us ina relationship in real time.
So we're not thinking about our worriesof what is to come, and we're not really
(00:22):
ruminating on the past because it'sjust so rewarding to be in relationship
with the horse and it feels good.
Cliff DuVernois (00:29):
Hello everyone and welcome back to Total Michigan, where
we interview Ordinary Michiganders who'sdoing some pretty extraordinary things.
I'm your host Cliff DuVernois So todayI'm back in the saddle, so to speak.
I'm actually out and about collectingmore stories of, ordinary people
doing extraordinary things.
And one of the things that popped up froma listener of the show sent me, and I
just had to be able to check this out.
(00:50):
We all know right now in the news thatmental health is a really big thing and
we're all looking for some kind of way,some kind of therapy, whatever that might
be, to be able to help not only adultsnavigate life, but our children as well.
And Covid seems to have justbrought out the worst in everybody,
(01:10):
and we're all struggling, alltrying to find that new footing.
And this particular placecaught my attention because yes.
It is a kind of therapy,but it's with horses.
I just love that concept 'causeI've always been a fan of horses.
And so to walk us through howexactly this works, we have Sarah
(01:31):
Buffin from Redemption Hill Ranch,located in Vassar, Michigan.
Mm-hmm Sarah, how are you?
Sarah Buffman (01:38):
Doing very well, thank you.
Cliff DuVernois (01:40):
Awesome.
So why don't you tell us whatis Redemption Hill Ranch?
Sarah Buffman (01:44):
Redemption Hill Ranch is a farm, 18 acres at the highest
point of Tuscola County where weaddress the mental health crisis
through relationship with horses.
And God, we noticed a struggle or aneed in our community and we thought
we can help fix that with the.
COVID pandemic.
A lot of people have struggled withself-esteem, with getting through tough
(02:08):
times with social skills, and when youbring people in to work with a horse,
you can teach them applicable lifeskills in a non-confrontational way
that even might be a little bit fun.
So we use clinical grade goalsand treatment modalities, or our
therapy with horses to help peoplebetter themselves in their lives.
Cliff DuVernois (02:29):
Okay, so there's a ton unpacked there
and I'm looking forward to it.
But first, before we dothat, let's take a step back.
Where are you from?
Where did you grow up?
Sarah Buffman (02:39):
A little bit of everywhere I was born, downstate in the Detroit area.
Was not a country girl oran animal person at all.
We moved around chasing myfather's goals and eventually
ended up in Midland, Michigan.
I struggled with some social skillsand getting along with other people, so
my mom thought I know how to fix that.
And she purchased our.
First horse together.
(02:59):
And from there we, developed ourhorsemanship journey and eventually
ended up at Redemption Hill Ranch outin Vassar, thanks to my husband who
answered God's call to move us to what wefeel sometimes is the middle of nowhere.
Cliff DuVernois (03:12):
So let's go back and, and unpack something right there.
'cause you mentioned somethingbefore about how you were having
a little bit of a struggle.
And your mom said, Hey, I know what to do.
Let's buy a horse.
Mm-hmm.
Um, probably not the firstthing I would think of.
Did she ever tell you howshe came up with that idea?
Sarah Buffman (03:28):
You know, that would be a really good thing to ask her, but
she always had a passion for horses.
and that was always somethingI dreamed of, like a goal.
a lot of people dream of being acelebrity, being a dancer, doing sports.
I didn't have any of thoseskills because we moved so much
and we're always on the go.
So.
Horses provide you with relationshipand you have to overcome your
(03:49):
fears and learn the strength withinyourself to be a good dancing partner.
Cliff DuVernois (03:54):
Right?
Sarah Buffman (03:54):
So I think that that was secretly the ingredient there is
she knew that something bigger than mecould help bring out the best in me.
Cliff DuVernois (04:02):
So as you're growing up, you know, you get into high
school, you're gonna have to eventuallywander out into the real world.
Did you go to school?
College did you study?
What, what happened after that?
Sarah Buffman (04:13):
I went to Dow High in Midland, Michigan.
Cliff DuVernois (04:16):
Okay.
Sarah Buffman (04:16):
From a private Lutheran school with eight students in my
eighth grade class to a public schoolwith 300 students right in my class.
Very overwhelming, especiallyfor someone who was already shy.
I made it through high school by the graceof God, and thanks to my relationship
with my first horse Zorra, I graduatedone of the best speakers in my class.
Cliff DuVernois (04:37):
Oh, incredible.
Mm-hmm.
Nice.
Sarah Buffman (04:39):
when I was working with Zorra, we boarded at a farm called,
Greystone Farm Arabians in Midland.
It was a huge Arabian farm with beautifulhorses and Esther Bennett, the owner
and breeder, had a program that wouldcome in from four H called the Proud
Equestrian Program, or Tall in the Saddle.
And so I would volunteer my time toset up the obstacles and the courses
(04:59):
for the lessons, and then I wouldhelp lead the horses for the students.
And I thought, this is pretty cool.
Maybe this could be somethingsomeday, but when I went into
college, I actually wanted to be aNational Geographic photographer.
Cliff DuVernois (05:11):
Oh, okay.
Sarah Buffman (05:11):
But I discovered the art was really intimidating.
'cause it's a big competition.
Cliff DuVernois (05:15):
Right.
Sarah Buffman (05:15):
So then, you know, in wisdom I decided to change to
medicine 'cause that's super wise.
And I wanted to be inphysical medicine and rehab.
Life, was kind of tumultuous at thattime with some family transitions.
And by the time I got to CentralMichigan University to pursue physical
medicine and rehab, it became adoctorate, which I could not afford.
Cliff DuVernois (05:37):
Wow.
Okay.
So I
Sarah Buffman (05:37):
found recreation therapy.
Which is a great middle ground becauseit's where physical medicine and
rehab, occupational therapy, and evenpsychiatry or traditional therapy meet,
it's a functional form of medicine thatbrings the fun to entice people and
to make their life more meaningful.
Cliff DuVernois (05:56):
So let's take a step back here.
'cause you were talking about.
How you went to college 'cause youwanted to become a National Geographic
photographer, and then you're like,wow, this is, you know, the competition.
And I gotta admit, it'sprobably pretty fierce.
But then you pivoted into medicine.
Mm-hmm.
So, talk to us, is there somethingthat has always intrigued you
(06:17):
about medicine just in general.
Sarah Buffman (06:19):
My mother is a lifetime nurse and growing up,
Cliff DuVernois (06:23):
there you go.
Sarah Buffman (06:24):
We didn't have cable.
And when we did get cable, Iwatched er all 14 seasons of it.
But I also grew up in my mom's, office.
Yeah.
Like helping with the charts and seeingthe patients come in and greeting
them and filling in for the frontoffice staff when there was a need.
So I always saw the passion.
Yeah.
To care for others and help healtheir bodies and then eventually
(06:46):
their hearts, which my mom isa beautiful example of doing.
Cliff DuVernois (06:49):
Certainly.
Well, this is incredible.
So at some, at some point as you'regoing through this, you've decided on
recreation therapy, and I guess justtrying to connect the dots here, when
did you decide to start making horses?
A part of the therapy
Sarah Buffman (07:08):
horses were always my goal.
When I was going to be a physicaltherapist, I had friends who were
called over to Iraq and Iran whocame back completely changed.
I remember getting calls from themwhen they were overseas, struggling
with what they'd seen and what theyhad to experience, and I always had
the passion of how can I help them?
And at that time, my perception wasthat I could only help heal the body.
(07:31):
So what if I did physical medicineand rehab to help serve the
veterans coming back with limbs?
Amputated or blown off?
Yeah.
Or traumatic brain injuries.
when I.
Went into recreation therapybecause it was kind of my
settle degree at that point.
I tried to get into my internshipin physical medicine and rehab,
(07:51):
but nobody would take me.
And with the timeline I had, Iwas accepted into, white Pine at
HealthSource Saginaw for my internship,which is inpatient psychiatry.
And I spent my 16 weeks thereserving others, and I never left
for 10 years after that because.
Even if you have to heal the body, youstill have to heal the heart and the soul.
(08:14):
What's underneath?
Yes.
Cliff DuVernois (08:16):
Yes.
And then kinda like with yourstory, you started to form the idea
about having your own place, yourown ranch, with your own horses.
Is this something that youstarted when you were in Midland?
Sarah Buffman (08:35):
Yes.
Cliff DuVernois (08:35):
Okay.
We didn't
Sarah Buffman (08:36):
have a beautiful facility such as this.
I would have to operate outside, which weknow Michigan weather is not the best for.
so we had started our search to expandand have an arena because my goal was
to transition from the programs thatonly addressed the physical needs
to the spiritual, emotional needs.
Cliff DuVernois (08:53):
Right.
Sarah Buffman (08:54):
But we needed a place to do it.
And when we started searching,my husband found this place.
And even though he's not a veryoutspoken man, he was very persistent
that he felt that this is wherewe were supposed to be led.
And lo and behold, God providedus with a facility and a
community that really had a need.
Cliff DuVernois (09:10):
So now the city girl really has become a country girl.
Sarah Buffman (09:12):
Yes.
I crack myself up all the time.
I don't know if you've seenthe old show Green Acres.
Cliff DuVernois (09:17):
Yes.
Uh, but oh my goodness.
S we're the way back machine.
Sarah Buffman (09:20):
I sing that song to myself on the tractor all the time.
Nobody needs a gym whenthey live on a farm.
Yes.
But you learn how to fix itand you learn how to make it
work all the time on a farm.
And that's what I'm doing now, isI'm living outside taking care of
animals a hundred percent of my time.
As compared to city life, whichI think I would be bored with.
Cliff DuVernois (09:40):
I would have to agree with that.
Let's, let's talk a little bit moreabout how your journey has expanded.
'cause I, I really do want to dive moreinto the therapy and working with the
patients and, and how that model works.
But you were telling mebefore, uh, we turned the
microphones on, that you've also.
Your work has gotten you a littlebit of notoriety in the fact that
(10:02):
you're now a school counselor as well.
Sarah Buffman (10:04):
Mm-hmm.
Cliff DuVernois (10:04):
Talk to us about that.
Sarah Buffman (10:06):
Uh, the local school system was really struggling with the social and
emotional needs of their students, right?
And they were in the paper for staffquitting and people getting hurt.
So the school system asked me byconnections to come in and talk
about how I would fix it, andI just shared with them what I
would do in the hospital setting.
What skills would I teach, but in a waythat is understandable to early elementary
(10:30):
school students, which was the schoolthat they wanted to address the most.
They asked me to come in and help.
And so even though I am not a traditional,social worker, I can fill the need
because little kids don't wanna talkabout their feelings all the time, right?
They need to learn through experienceand interacting with other people.
So I get to serve as the CarrollCommunity School Student Success
(10:52):
Coordinator and helping teach theschools how to, or the students, how
to manage their emotions and how tomanage social interactions in a fun way.
Cliff DuVernois (11:02):
It seems like God really knew what he'd doing
when he sent you over this way,
Sarah Buffman (11:05):
that's for sure.
Cliff DuVernois (11:06):
And now it was with being a, a school counselor and you, you
made a little comment about this before.
I can imagine that what this school isexperiencing a lot of other schools.
Are experiencing as well.
And we kind of talked a little bitabout this at the beginning, but I know
like COVID seems to have really leftits mark on a lot of kids that are now
having to, you know, just get used towhatever this new normal happens to be.
(11:32):
Would you think thatthat's, that's a part of it.
That's something that's just systemicto all schools that are out there
Sarah Buffman (11:38):
systemic to society as a whole.
Oh, interesting.
Okay.
We went from being a people whocould go out and do things, and
we could have relationships topeople who had to stay home.
So what do you do when you stay home?
You have to entertain yourself, so.
While the internet is a wonderfulthing, it helped us connect
with people who were far away.
It also exposed us to ways of livingthat were not how God created us to be.
(12:00):
It didn't have the face-to-faceconversations In reality, it didn't have
us out using our body and our imaginationand our creativity in positive ways.
Right?
So schools struggle with that themost because there were children
who were raised during that era, andways of life changed during that era
that then transition them into the.
The functional setting of school.
(12:21):
So they didn't have the sameskills that we had pre pandemic.
the pandemic certainly only madethings worse that we already
had, but it was through a needor a necessity at that point.
Cliff DuVernois (12:31):
So now the need for any kind of mental health
therapy is even greater than ever.
Sarah Buffman (12:38):
Absolutely.
We have to learn whowe are as people again.
Cliff DuVernois (12:42):
For our audience, we're gonna take a quick
break and thank our sponsors.
Uh, once again, my name is CliffDuVernois and this is Total Michigan.
I'm sitting with Sarah Buffmanof Redemption Hill Ranch, located
in Vassar, Michigan, and wewill see you after the break.
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(13:06):
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Hello everyone.
Welcome back to Total Michiganwhere we interview Ordinary Michigan
is doing extraordinary things.
I'm your host, Clifton Manis.
Today we are talking with SarahBuffin of the Redemption Hill
(13:29):
Ranch, located in Vassar, Michigan.
And Sarah, before the break we weretalking about about what horse therapy is
and how you started your journey into it.
What I would like to do rightnow is I'd like to take a couple
minutes to talk about how.
Horses, having horses bea part of the therapy.
(13:49):
And you've mentioned also as wellthat God plays an aspect in this.
Why don't you talk to us about howall that marries together to create
this therapy that you're using here?
Sarah Buffman (14:01):
Okay.
That's a big topic andquestion, but I will do my best.
Cliff DuVernois (14:04):
We appreciate that.
Sarah Buffman (14:06):
To really address therapy and needs, especially with mental health,
we have to address who we are as people.
And again, we talked about how COVIDmade people kind of draw back and go into
themselves while using social media asan aspect to reach out to other people.
Then we saw that people werecomparing themselves to others,
(14:27):
and on social media, you reallyonly see the best of other people.
Cliff DuVernois (14:31):
That is so true.
Sarah Buffman (14:32):
So how do you compare your life to what you think is the
normal for somebody else when reallyit's all proctored and photoshopped?
You have to learn whoyou were created to be.
So with Redemption Hill Ranch, evenwith my practice at the hospital,
I teach people who they are inGod, who he created them to be and
who he is as a creator and master.
(14:54):
And part of that is throughwhat we see reflected in horses.
Horses are enormous animals.
I mean, you get the evil little mini horseon occasion, but ours are about a thousand
pounds, which can be intimidating in size.
But even though they're huge andthey're powerful, they're also.
Very timid and scared, kindof like we are, that they
are, they're animals of prey.
(15:17):
They're the ones hunted.
They're the ones who always have tohave something watching their back.
So when we work with the horse, they'reobservant of everything that's going
on, even what's going on on the inside.
Horses can hear a human heartbeat fromfour feet away because they have to be
attuned to the heart rates of their herdmembers to know if there's an emergency.
(15:37):
So if we have an elevated heart rate,they're going to know that sometimes
before we do, and they're going toobserve our body signals and how we feel.
Before we even notice it.
So if we learn to pay attention toa horse and how they're reacting
in terms of how we are projectingourselves or what choices we're
making, we can learn self-controland a better version of ourselves.
(16:01):
We have three different horses who servecurrently as our therapeutic providers.
We have Christian, he's our old man.
He is Drooly and Slobbery, buthe just loves to be loved on.
He is slow and gentle and he canbreathe into your soul and he's
really good for handling grief.
And then we have Ollie, ourSure steady Rollie Polly guy.
(16:22):
He's safe for everybody and he brings alot of joy, but he's really good for those
people who aren't confident in themselves.
and then we have Alvin.
Our overreactive redhead, who's verymischievous and likes to take everything
apart, and he's good for those whoneed to learn that self-control and
self-regulation, whether it's throughanxiety or even sometimes anger, because
(16:42):
if you can take control of what's goingon in your thoughts and in your mind and
in your body, then you can have a horsethat would bend over backwards for you.
Cliff DuVernois (16:50):
I've heard of this.
Concept that when you're with ahorse, the horse kind of mirrors.
Sarah Buffman (16:55):
Mm-hmm.
The
Cliff DuVernois (16:56):
way you feel on the inside.
Mm-hmm.
This is kinda like whatyou're talking about here.
Absolutely.
Sarah Buffman (17:00):
Horses are a literal 100% real-time mirror.
What's going on in you and with you isgoing to be reflected in your horse, and
you can either choose to partner withyour horse in a kind, gentle fashion
through relationship, or you can useforce and fear, but you're still going
to see a different result either way.
(17:20):
So which one's gonna be more rewarding?
Probably the one that'sgenuine relationship.
Cliff DuVernois (17:24):
Yes.
Sarah Buffman (17:25):
Even if it's the ugly parts of yourself that you're showing them.
Cliff DuVernois (17:28):
Now, I could see somebody listening to the show right
Now, I gotta play a little bit ofdevil's advocate here and just say how
in the world does, because I understand,you got the horses, and they've all
got their different personalities.
But how in the world.
Am I supposed to come here?
If I got, like you were talkingabout grief, for example,
let's run with that one there.
(17:49):
I'm experiencing a lot of grief.
How in the world is a horsegonna help me with grief?
Sarah Buffman (17:54):
That's a very good question.
It's a God thing.
Horses.
Cliff DuVernois (17:58):
I love that.
Sarah Buffman (17:59):
It really is, and I can't honestly explain it.
There's science behind how horsescan benefit the human brain.
With the chemicals of cortisolrelieving that stress hormone, they
can improve the levels of oxytocin.
They can make you feel happier.
They can help you breathe.
They can slow your heart ratein conjunction with themself.
(18:19):
I don't know how to explain itother than God made them here.
They made, they made them present.
He made them to be with us ina relationship in real time.
So we're not thinking about our worriesof what is to come, and we're not really
ruminating on the past because it'sjust so rewarding to be in relationship
with the horse and it feels good.
It feels good on your fingertips.
Right?
It feels good when they breatheonto your face because Christian
(18:42):
will put his muzzle right up toyour face and he'll breathe deeply.
And it's kind of like a littlemassage or a song or a whisper,
Cliff DuVernois (18:48):
right?
Sarah Buffman (18:50):
It's like a warm hug.
Kind of like Olaf.
I like warm hugs somewhere,but it's from a horse.
Cliff DuVernois (18:56):
Because when you talk about now with, you know,
the horses, it's not just stayingthere and petting the horse.
'cause you had me in the arena.
Mm-hmm.
I had the horse, I was walkingwith the horse sometimes with
the bridal, sometimes I wasn't.
you had me using one of the combs.
On the horse, walking aroundcones and everything else.
So it's literally, I amworking with the horse.
(19:18):
There's this thousand pound creature thatis walking next to me the whole time.
Sarah Buffman (19:23):
Yes.
It's not all about anexistential experience.
It's not something that'sunachievable or understandable.
It's about learning a skillor focusing on one thing.
And again, I keep using theword relationship because
that's really what it is.
Here at Redemption Hill,we focus on horsemanship.
Horsemanship leads us to the otherthings like discovering who God created
(19:44):
us to be and discovering our strengthsand how we overcome our weaknesses.
Cliff DuVernois (19:48):
Right?
But
Sarah Buffman (19:48):
you do it through walking with a horse.
So when participants come, they learnhow to go put a halter on their horse.
They learn how to walk with their horseon the ground, how to brush a horse,
how to care for their horse's wounds.
And then if they go so far,they can learn how to ride.
They can learn how to ground drive.
They can learn how toprepare them for a show.
We use skills that are appealingand applicable to the rest of life.
(20:14):
Like think of your four H kids.
How many of them end up with great valuesbecause you're learning to care for and
pay attention to something outside of you,
Cliff DuVernois (20:21):
correct.
Sarah Buffman (20:22):
Which then mirrors the inside of you and
the value that God placed there.
Cliff DuVernois (20:26):
It's not an emphasis on screen time.
Sarah Buffman (20:28):
No.
Cliff DuVernois (20:29):
It's the emphasis now is on the outside of you.
And we kind of discussed this beforethe microphones came on about.
When you have that horse and you arein charge of it, when you're walking
around the arena, that horse isfollowing you, maybe not in charge of it.
Leader, right?
You're leading that horse.
So where's the horse gonna go?
How is the horse going to act?
(20:51):
That is all something that hasto come from the inside out.
Yes.
As far as as a person goes.
So if you want the horse to turnto the left or turn to the right
or follow you or walk fast or walkslow, that's all coming from inside.
So you're now, you're having to thinkabout something greater than yourself.
Sarah Buffman (21:06):
Exactly.
It's all about what our insides producein other people or other beings.
And God gave us dominion over animals,but how does he expect us to do it?
Love with respect.
With dignity and kindness,
Cliff DuVernois (21:21):
which is the second greatest commandment.
Sarah Buffman (21:23):
Love God and love others.
Cliff DuVernois (21:24):
There you go.
And what I would like to do now is, youmentioned this before and this story
has really captured my heart on a verypersonal level, is when we talk about
people, we really haven't delineateda difference so much between adults.
Versus children.
Mm-hmm.
What I would like to do is, youwere telling me before the story
(21:45):
about, uh, a child that you wereworking with from your school that
was almost kicked out of school.
Give us a little bit about thatbackstory and then we'll just kind
of expand from there and just howthe therapy is is impacting her.
Sarah Buffman (22:00):
One of Redemption Hill's Specialties is serving children, and it's
not so much through just bringing them outto have a fun experience and a fun time.
It's taking the children who feellike they've been rejected from the
rest of the world or don't fit in,and giving them a place where they're
loved, unconditionally seen and heard.
I had a f.
Student of mine who had a seriousbackground of abuse and neglect.
(22:23):
She was pushed out of her mother's homeand her father's home, and she was living
with another family member who may ormay not wanted to have custody of her.
This child was full of fear.
Full of anxiety and uncertainty and doubt,and that resulted in fear of other people
because when you're scared, how do youprotect yourself, especially when you feel
(22:43):
like you have nobody watching your back.
So she would lash out with a lotof violence, and in second grade,
she was almost removed from theschool system because it was hard
to keep her and her peers safe.
But God put a call in my heart.
To trust and bring back?
No, just to
Cliff DuVernois (22:59):
go back here, the thing, the story that stands out to me was when
you said she pulled a toilet off the wall.
Sarah Buffman (23:04):
Toilet off the wall
Cliff DuVernois (23:05):
in second grade.
Sarah Buffman (23:06):
Mm-hmm.
Cliff DuVernois (23:07):
Okay.
Yeah.
Continue
Sarah Buffman (23:10):
trusted God to bring her out here and Christian.
Our gentle friend who speaksdeep or speaks to the deep
hurts of our soul, chose her.
It's like he literally suckedher in with his tiny nostril
that's been reconstructed.
Cliff DuVernois (23:23):
So it's kinda like a little bit of an interview, right?
She comes here and she spends alittle bit of time with the horses,
and what you're looking for is this.
There's some kind of a chemistrybetween her and one of the horses
that you have in this case.
Sarah Buffman (23:35):
The horse chose her.
It was Christian.
Cliff DuVernois (23:37):
Okay?
Sarah Buffman (23:37):
Sometimes you choose a horse based on the skill you wanna
achieve, and sometimes you haveto go based on the a relationship
connection between the two.
And this gentle horse spoke to thosedeep places of hurt in her soul, and
he has been her place of confidence.
So this girl.
Who, I don't even knowhow much she weighs.
Not very much comes out and shelearns that she can be a partner
(23:59):
to a thousand pound animal, andthat thousand pound being respects
her enough to keep her safe.
Even in the moments where sometimes hegets scared and then they can work through
new skills that sometimes are reallyfrustrating, and then she can learn how
to care for something that is much bigger.
Herself.
So after learning how to care for athousand pound horse and overcoming the
(24:21):
fears of what if they step on my toe?
What if they take offwith me in the arena?
What if, oh my goodness, all the what ifs.
She can then learn to work witha hundred pound peer at school,
Cliff DuVernois (24:32):
right?
Sarah Buffman (24:32):
Or a 200 pound adult who has to put down
boundaries that she doesn't like.
It makes us more ready to acceptwhat's going on in the world when
we discover what God put in us inthe first place here in the barn.
Cliff DuVernois (24:45):
So now, how long have you been working with her now?
Sarah Buffman (24:48):
She's been coming to the barn since October.
Okay.
Of 2024.
Cliff DuVernois (24:52):
And now what?
What personally have you noticedin her being the school success?
Sarah Buffman (24:58):
Coordinator.
Cliff DuVernois (24:59):
Coordinator, thank you.
Sarah Buffman (25:00):
A made up a made up title to make me fit.
we've noticed that she'smore willing to listen.
She's more willing to breathethrough and work through hard times.
She now has friends.
Oh, incredible.
Who used to be her enemies?
When somebody or something scaresher or makes her upset, she's more
willing to say, I forgive you.
(25:21):
There was, a night when one of herabusers had passed, and it's strange
for a child because sometimes whenthe abuser is also your caregiver, you
don't know how you should feel, right?
'cause you should love them.
Also they've broken your trust.
And so everybody was expectingthis big meltdown from her.
And she walked into thebarn and went to Christian.
(25:44):
And when, others had said, anticipatea problem, she just melted into him.
And then she took him into thearena and started grooming.
And she started chatting.
And what came out of hermouth was, I forgive her.
Learning that she could had value inherself outside of the other experiences,
and that this horse sees value andbeauty in her because she doesn't
(26:06):
provide for this horse, like she doesn'ttake care of it on a daily basis.
She doesn't have to bribe him with treats.
He just wants to spend time withher that taught her that God.
Gave her value.
And when you can see your value, you thenunderstand who you were created to be,
even with the mistakes of a fallen world.
So she forgave that person and now wesee that she cares more for other people.
(26:29):
She's always been a caring person.
But it's interesting when we have amoment where somebody's frustrating
her or somebody else is makinga bad decision, and she'll say.
I used to struggle with that.
Maybe you should try this instead.
Right, right.
And I always wanna say,are you the therapist here?
Cliff DuVernois (26:47):
The thing I have to, I wanna circle back on, 'cause you, you
mentioned, you made a comment about howyou started working with her in October
and as of this recording that wouldput that approximately nine, 10 months
ago into the past, this is a process.
Mm-hmm.
This isn't something where it's,you know, pop a pill or read a book
or learn some kind of a framework.
(27:07):
This is process of in this particularcase, the child learning about
themselves, but also learning aboutthe horse and then how the two of them
work together and, and come together.
And you made this brief commentabout the skills that you now learn
because you're taking care of thishorse that you're now in charge of.
Sarah Buffman (27:27):
Yeah, it's not gonna say that there's not gonna be
moments where you slip backwards,and that's the whole point of growth.
It's like going on a new diet, right?
You're gonna be so enthusiastic andyou're gonna be making improvements,
and you're gonna be making gains,and then there's gonna be one time
when you get really frustrated andyou slip up and you make a mistake,
Cliff DuVernois (27:43):
right?
Sarah Buffman (27:44):
Or it's gonna be the same with working out.
You're gonna get so tired from workingout that you're gonna give up at one
point and then you're gonna backslide,
Cliff DuVernois (27:50):
right?
Sarah Buffman (27:51):
So growth is always a process.
Mm-hmm.
And it takes time.
And when people don't give it time, thenyou're setting yourself up for failure.
Cliff DuVernois (27:59):
Right.
Sarah Buffman (28:00):
But part of the beauty of Redemption Hill is when you learn
relationship and you learn who youare on the inside, it sets you up with
the skills and the strength to endureall that comes along, especially the
moments that would have set you back.
Now with this person inparticular, this child.
(28:20):
There were moments that werere-traumatizing for her,
Cliff DuVernois (28:23):
right?
Sarah Buffman (28:23):
And we take standardized assessments of self-esteem and
resilience at the start and at 12 weeks.
And so far, every participantwho's in our program has made gains
in self-esteem and resilience.
While this student did not,she didn't slide backwards.
And honestly, some of the thingsshe went through during her time
with us over the past nine or10 months could have been very.
(28:47):
Very bad.
So we're proud that we gave her theskills to endure and to continue on.
That's what resilience is all about,the ability to overcome hardship.
Cliff DuVernois (28:59):
Sarah, if somebody is listening to this and they
want to check out more about you.
The horse therapy.
Maybe they even know of somebodywho could be, of who, who needs
this, who could benefit from this.
How can they find you?
What's the best way to connect with you?
Sarah Buffman (29:17):
Our website, redemption Hill ranch.org
has all of our information about thetwo programs we offer our horsemanship
program and our decompression sessions.
It helps you meet the herdwith little bios on each horse.
It helps you learn what it takesto be a part of our program.
As far as cost orscholarship opportunities.
(29:38):
We wanna make sure that everybodyhas the opportunity no matter what.
More importantly, there'slinks to our socials on there.
We are on Facebook andInstagram, which are updated
more regularly than the website.
Mm-hmm.
So you can find us atRedemption Hill Ranch.
You might have to put Vassar inthere to find us on Facebook.
but we hope you'll share it.
At the very least.
Hop on there, check outFacebook, see what we're posting.
(29:59):
Sometimes there's thecrazy antics of the horses.
Sometimes there's life lessons that can belearned even from the tractor seat, right.
Doing hay.
Cliff DuVernois (30:08):
Green Acres.
Sarah Buffman (30:09):
Green Acres is the place to be.
Cliff DuVernois (30:11):
Sarah, thank you so much for taking time to chat with us today.
I have thoroughly enjoyed this.
This place is just beautiful.
I love spending time with your horses.
So thank you so much for openingup your doors to us today.
Sarah Buffman (30:23):
Thank you for the opportunity and for joining us.
Cliff DuVernois (30:26):
For our audience, you can always go to total michigan.com.
Click on Sarah's interview,and get the links and all the
information that she mentioned above.
We will see you next time when we talkto another ordinary Michigander doing
some pretty extraordinary things.
We'll see you then.
I.
It's a God thing.
There's science behind how horsescan benefit the human brain.
With the chemicals of cortisolrelieving that stress hormone, they
can improve the levels of oxytocin.
They can make you feel happier.
They can help you breathe.
I don't know how to explain itother than God made them here.
He made them to be with us ina relationship in real time.
So we're not thinking about our worriesof what is to come, and we're not really
(00:22):
ruminating on the past because it'sjust so rewarding to be in relationship
with the horse and it feels good.
Cliff DuVernois (00:29):
Hello everyone and welcome back to Total Michigan, where
we interview Ordinary Michiganders who'sdoing some pretty extraordinary things.
I'm your host Cliff DuVernois So todayI'm back in the saddle, so to speak.
I'm actually out and about collectingmore stories of, ordinary people
doing extraordinary things.
And one of the things that popped up froma listener of the show sent me, and I
just had to be able to check this out.
(00:50):
We all know right now in the news thatmental health is a really big thing and
we're all looking for some kind of way,some kind of therapy, whatever that might
be, to be able to help not only adultsnavigate life, but our children as well.
And Covid seems to have justbrought out the worst in everybody,
(01:10):
and we're all struggling, alltrying to find that new footing.
And this particular placecaught my attention because yes.
It is a kind of therapy,but it's with horses.
I just love that concept 'causeI've always been a fan of horses.
And so to walk us through howexactly this works, we have Sarah
(01:31):
Buffin from Redemption Hill Ranch,located in Vassar, Michigan.
Mm-hmm Sarah, how are you?
Sarah Buffman (01:38):
Doing very well, thank you.
Cliff DuVernois (01:40):
Awesome.
So why don't you tell us whatis Redemption Hill Ranch?
Sarah Buffman (01:44):
Redemption Hill Ranch is a farm, 18 acres at the highest
point of Tuscola County where weaddress the mental health crisis
through relationship with horses.
And God, we noticed a struggle or aneed in our community and we thought
we can help fix that with the.
COVID pandemic.
A lot of people have struggled withself-esteem, with getting through tough
(02:08):
times with social skills, and when youbring people in to work with a horse,
you can teach them applicable lifeskills in a non-confrontational way
that even might be a little bit fun.
So we use clinical grade goalsand treatment modalities, or our
therapy with horses to help peoplebetter themselves in their lives.
Cliff DuVernois (02:29):
Okay, so there's a ton unpacked there
and I'm looking forward to it.
But first, before we dothat, let's take a step back.
Where are you from?
Where did you grow up?
Sarah Buffman (02:39):
A little bit of everywhere I was born, downstate in the Detroit area.
Was not a country girl oran animal person at all.
We moved around chasing myfather's goals and eventually
ended up in Midland, Michigan.
I struggled with some social skillsand getting along with other people, so
my mom thought I know how to fix that.
And she purchased our.
First horse together.
(02:59):
And from there we, developed ourhorsemanship journey and eventually
ended up at Redemption Hill Ranch outin Vassar, thanks to my husband who
answered God's call to move us to what wefeel sometimes is the middle of nowhere.
Cliff DuVernois (03:12):
So let's go back and, and unpack something right there.
'cause you mentioned somethingbefore about how you were having
a little bit of a struggle.
And your mom said, Hey, I know what to do.
Let's buy a horse.
Mm-hmm.
Um, probably not the firstthing I would think of.
Did she ever tell you howshe came up with that idea?
Sarah Buffman (03:28):
You know, that would be a really good thing to ask her, but
she always had a passion for horses.
and that was always somethingI dreamed of, like a goal.
a lot of people dream of being acelebrity, being a dancer, doing sports.
I didn't have any of thoseskills because we moved so much
and we're always on the go.
So.
Horses provide you with relationshipand you have to overcome your
(03:49):
fears and learn the strength withinyourself to be a good dancing partner.
Cliff DuVernois (03:54):
Right?
Sarah Buffman (03:54):
So I think that that was secretly the ingredient there is
she knew that something bigger than mecould help bring out the best in me.
Cliff DuVernois (04:02):
So as you're growing up, you know, you get into high
school, you're gonna have to eventuallywander out into the real world.
Did you go to school?
College did you study?
What, what happened after that?
Sarah Buffman (04:13):
I went to Dow High in Midland, Michigan.
Cliff DuVernois (04:16):
Okay.
Sarah Buffman (04:16):
From a private Lutheran school with eight students in my
eighth grade class to a public schoolwith 300 students right in my class.
Very overwhelming, especiallyfor someone who was already shy.
I made it through high school by the graceof God, and thanks to my relationship
with my first horse Zorra, I graduatedone of the best speakers in my class.
Cliff DuVernois (04:37):
Oh, incredible.
Mm-hmm.
Nice.
Sarah Buffman (04:39):
when I was working with Zorra, we boarded at a farm called,
Greystone Farm Arabians in Midland.
It was a huge Arabian farm with beautifulhorses and Esther Bennett, the owner
and breeder, had a program that wouldcome in from four H called the Proud
Equestrian Program, or Tall in the Saddle.
And so I would volunteer my time toset up the obstacles and the courses
(04:59):
for the lessons, and then I wouldhelp lead the horses for the students.
And I thought, this is pretty cool.
Maybe this could be somethingsomeday, but when I went into
college, I actually wanted to be aNational Geographic photographer.
Cliff DuVernois (05:11):
Oh, okay.
Sarah Buffman (05:11):
But I discovered the art was really intimidating.
'cause it's a big competition.
Cliff DuVernois (05:15):
Right.
Sarah Buffman (05:15):
So then, you know, in wisdom I decided to change to
medicine 'cause that's super wise.
And I wanted to be inphysical medicine and rehab.
Life, was kind of tumultuous at thattime with some family transitions.
And by the time I got to CentralMichigan University to pursue physical
medicine and rehab, it became adoctorate, which I could not afford.
Cliff DuVernois (05:37):
Wow.
Okay.
So I
Sarah Buffman (05:37):
found recreation therapy.
Which is a great middle ground becauseit's where physical medicine and
rehab, occupational therapy, and evenpsychiatry or traditional therapy meet,
it's a functional form of medicine thatbrings the fun to entice people and
to make their life more meaningful.
Cliff DuVernois (05:56):
So let's take a step back here.
'cause you were talking about.
How you went to college 'cause youwanted to become a National Geographic
photographer, and then you're like,wow, this is, you know, the competition.
And I gotta admit, it'sprobably pretty fierce.
But then you pivoted into medicine.
Mm-hmm.
So, talk to us, is there somethingthat has always intrigued you
(06:17):
about medicine just in general.
Sarah Buffman (06:19):
My mother is a lifetime nurse and growing up,
Cliff DuVernois (06:23):
there you go.
Sarah Buffman (06:24):
We didn't have cable.
And when we did get cable, Iwatched er all 14 seasons of it.
But I also grew up in my mom's, office.
Yeah.
Like helping with the charts and seeingthe patients come in and greeting
them and filling in for the frontoffice staff when there was a need.
So I always saw the passion.
Yeah.
To care for others and help healtheir bodies and then eventually
(06:46):
their hearts, which my mom isa beautiful example of doing.
Cliff DuVernois (06:49):
Certainly.
Well, this is incredible.
So at some, at some point as you'regoing through this, you've decided on
recreation therapy, and I guess justtrying to connect the dots here, when
did you decide to start making horses?
A part of the therapy
Sarah Buffman (07:08):
horses were always my goal.
When I was going to be a physicaltherapist, I had friends who were
called over to Iraq and Iran whocame back completely changed.
I remember getting calls from themwhen they were overseas, struggling
with what they'd seen and what theyhad to experience, and I always had
the passion of how can I help them?
And at that time, my perception wasthat I could only help heal the body.
(07:31):
So what if I did physical medicineand rehab to help serve the
veterans coming back with limbs?
Amputated or blown off?
Yeah.
Or traumatic brain injuries.
when I.
Went into recreation therapybecause it was kind of my
settle degree at that point.
I tried to get into my internshipin physical medicine and rehab,
(07:51):
but nobody would take me.
And with the timeline I had, Iwas accepted into, white Pine at
HealthSource Saginaw for my internship,which is inpatient psychiatry.
And I spent my 16 weeks thereserving others, and I never left
for 10 years after that because.
Even if you have to heal the body, youstill have to heal the heart and the soul.
(08:14):
What's underneath?
Yes.
Cliff DuVernois (08:16):
Yes.
And then kinda like with yourstory, you started to form the idea
about having your own place, yourown ranch, with your own horses.
Is this something that youstarted when you were in Midland?
Sarah Buffman (08:35):
Yes.
Cliff DuVernois (08:35):
Okay.
We didn't
Sarah Buffman (08:36):
have a beautiful facility such as this.
I would have to operate outside, which weknow Michigan weather is not the best for.
so we had started our search to expandand have an arena because my goal was
to transition from the programs thatonly addressed the physical needs
to the spiritual, emotional needs.
Cliff DuVernois (08:53):
Right.
Sarah Buffman (08:54):
But we needed a place to do it.
And when we started searching,my husband found this place.
And even though he's not a veryoutspoken man, he was very persistent
that he felt that this is wherewe were supposed to be led.
And lo and behold, God providedus with a facility and a
community that really had a need.
Cliff DuVernois (09:10):
So now the city girl really has become a country girl.
Sarah Buffman (09:12):
Yes.
I crack myself up all the time.
I don't know if you've seenthe old show Green Acres.
Cliff DuVernois (09:17):
Yes.
Uh, but oh my goodness.
S we're the way back machine.
Sarah Buffman (09:20):
I sing that song to myself on the tractor all the time.
Nobody needs a gym whenthey live on a farm.
Yes.
But you learn how to fix itand you learn how to make it
work all the time on a farm.
And that's what I'm doing now, isI'm living outside taking care of
animals a hundred percent of my time.
As compared to city life, whichI think I would be bored with.
Cliff DuVernois (09:40):
I would have to agree with that.
Let's, let's talk a little bit moreabout how your journey has expanded.
'cause I, I really do want to dive moreinto the therapy and working with the
patients and, and how that model works.
But you were telling mebefore, uh, we turned the
microphones on, that you've also.
Your work has gotten you a littlebit of notoriety in the fact that
(10:02):
you're now a school counselor as well.
Sarah Buffman (10:04):
Mm-hmm.
Cliff DuVernois (10:04):
Talk to us about that.
Sarah Buffman (10:06):
Uh, the local school system was really struggling with the social and
emotional needs of their students, right?
And they were in the paper for staffquitting and people getting hurt.
So the school system asked me byconnections to come in and talk
about how I would fix it, andI just shared with them what I
would do in the hospital setting.
What skills would I teach, but in a waythat is understandable to early elementary
(10:30):
school students, which was the schoolthat they wanted to address the most.
They asked me to come in and help.
And so even though I am not a traditional,social worker, I can fill the need
because little kids don't wanna talkabout their feelings all the time, right?
They need to learn through experienceand interacting with other people.
So I get to serve as the CarrollCommunity School Student Success
(10:52):
Coordinator and helping teach theschools how to, or the students, how
to manage their emotions and how tomanage social interactions in a fun way.
Cliff DuVernois (11:02):
It seems like God really knew what he'd doing
when he sent you over this way,
Sarah Buffman (11:05):
that's for sure.
Cliff DuVernois (11:06):
And now it was with being a, a school counselor and you, you
made a little comment about this before.
I can imagine that what this school isexperiencing a lot of other schools.
Are experiencing as well.
And we kind of talked a little bitabout this at the beginning, but I know
like COVID seems to have really leftits mark on a lot of kids that are now
having to, you know, just get used towhatever this new normal happens to be.
(11:32):
Would you think thatthat's, that's a part of it.
That's something that's just systemicto all schools that are out there
Sarah Buffman (11:38):
systemic to society as a whole.
Oh, interesting.
Okay.
We went from being a people whocould go out and do things, and
we could have relationships topeople who had to stay home.
So what do you do when you stay home?
You have to entertain yourself, so.
While the internet is a wonderfulthing, it helped us connect
with people who were far away.
It also exposed us to ways of livingthat were not how God created us to be.
(12:00):
It didn't have the face-to-faceconversations In reality, it didn't have
us out using our body and our imaginationand our creativity in positive ways.
Right?
So schools struggle with that themost because there were children
who were raised during that era, andways of life changed during that era
that then transition them into the.
The functional setting of school.
(12:21):
So they didn't have the sameskills that we had pre pandemic.
the pandemic certainly only madethings worse that we already
had, but it was through a needor a necessity at that point.
Cliff DuVernois (12:31):
So now the need for any kind of mental health
therapy is even greater than ever.
Sarah Buffman (12:38):
Absolutely.
We have to learn whowe are as people again.
Cliff DuVernois (12:42):
For our audience, we're gonna take a quick
break and thank our sponsors.
Uh, once again, my name is CliffDuVernois and this is Total Michigan.
I'm sitting with Sarah Buffmanof Redemption Hill Ranch, located
in Vassar, Michigan, and wewill see you after the break.
Are you enjoying this episode?
Well, I can tell youthere's a lot more to come.
Jump over to TotalMichigan.
com, enter your email address,and get on our mailing list.
(13:06):
You'll get a list of the topfive episodes for the show.
Along with that, you'll getall kinds of behind the scenes
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Just go over to TotalMichigan.
com, enter your email address today.
Hello everyone.
Welcome back to Total Michiganwhere we interview Ordinary Michigan
is doing extraordinary things.
I'm your host, Clifton Manis.
Today we are talking with SarahBuffin of the Redemption Hill
(13:29):
Ranch, located in Vassar, Michigan.
And Sarah, before the break we weretalking about about what horse therapy is
and how you started your journey into it.
What I would like to do rightnow is I'd like to take a couple
minutes to talk about how.
Horses, having horses bea part of the therapy.
(13:49):
And you've mentioned also as wellthat God plays an aspect in this.
Why don't you talk to us about howall that marries together to create
this therapy that you're using here?
Sarah Buffman (14:01):
Okay.
That's a big topic andquestion, but I will do my best.
Cliff DuVernois (14:04):
We appreciate that.
Sarah Buffman (14:06):
To really address therapy and needs, especially with mental health,
we have to address who we are as people.
And again, we talked about how COVIDmade people kind of draw back and go into
themselves while using social media asan aspect to reach out to other people.
Then we saw that people werecomparing themselves to others,
(14:27):
and on social media, you reallyonly see the best of other people.
Cliff DuVernois (14:31):
That is so true.
Sarah Buffman (14:32):
So how do you compare your life to what you think is the
normal for somebody else when reallyit's all proctored and photoshopped?
You have to learn whoyou were created to be.
So with Redemption Hill Ranch, evenwith my practice at the hospital,
I teach people who they are inGod, who he created them to be and
who he is as a creator and master.
(14:54):
And part of that is throughwhat we see reflected in horses.
Horses are enormous animals.
I mean, you get the evil little mini horseon occasion, but ours are about a thousand
pounds, which can be intimidating in size.
But even though they're huge andthey're powerful, they're also.
Very timid and scared, kindof like we are, that they
are, they're animals of prey.
(15:17):
They're the ones hunted.
They're the ones who always have tohave something watching their back.
So when we work with the horse, they'reobservant of everything that's going
on, even what's going on on the inside.
Horses can hear a human heartbeat fromfour feet away because they have to be
attuned to the heart rates of their herdmembers to know if there's an emergency.
(15:37):
So if we have an elevated heart rate,they're going to know that sometimes
before we do, and they're going toobserve our body signals and how we feel.
Before we even notice it.
So if we learn to pay attention toa horse and how they're reacting
in terms of how we are projectingourselves or what choices we're
making, we can learn self-controland a better version of ourselves.
(16:01):
We have three different horses who servecurrently as our therapeutic providers.
We have Christian, he's our old man.
He is Drooly and Slobbery, buthe just loves to be loved on.
He is slow and gentle and he canbreathe into your soul and he's
really good for handling grief.
And then we have Ollie, ourSure steady Rollie Polly guy.
(16:22):
He's safe for everybody and he brings alot of joy, but he's really good for those
people who aren't confident in themselves.
and then we have Alvin.
Our overreactive redhead, who's verymischievous and likes to take everything
apart, and he's good for those whoneed to learn that self-control and
self-regulation, whether it's throughanxiety or even sometimes anger, because
(16:42):
if you can take control of what's goingon in your thoughts and in your mind and
in your body, then you can have a horsethat would bend over backwards for you.
Cliff DuVernois (16:50):
I've heard of this.
Concept that when you're with ahorse, the horse kind of mirrors.
Sarah Buffman (16:55):
Mm-hmm.
The
Cliff DuVernois (16:56):
way you feel on the inside.
Mm-hmm.
This is kinda like whatyou're talking about here.
Absolutely.
Sarah Buffman (17:00):
Horses are a literal 100% real-time mirror.
What's going on in you and with you isgoing to be reflected in your horse, and
you can either choose to partner withyour horse in a kind, gentle fashion
through relationship, or you can useforce and fear, but you're still going
to see a different result either way.
(17:20):
So which one's gonna be more rewarding?
Probably the one that'sgenuine relationship.
Cliff DuVernois (17:24):
Yes.
Sarah Buffman (17:25):
Even if it's the ugly parts of yourself that you're showing them.
Cliff DuVernois (17:28):
Now, I could see somebody listening to the show right
Now, I gotta play a little bit ofdevil's advocate here and just say how
in the world does, because I understand,you got the horses, and they've all
got their different personalities.
But how in the world.
Am I supposed to come here?
If I got, like you were talkingabout grief, for example,
let's run with that one there.
(17:49):
I'm experiencing a lot of grief.
How in the world is a horsegonna help me with grief?
Sarah Buffman (17:54):
That's a very good question.
It's a God thing.
Horses.
Cliff DuVernois (17:58):
I love that.
Sarah Buffman (17:59):
It really is, and I can't honestly explain it.
There's science behind how horsescan benefit the human brain.
With the chemicals of cortisolrelieving that stress hormone, they
can improve the levels of oxytocin.
They can make you feel happier.
They can help you breathe.
They can slow your heart ratein conjunction with themself.
(18:19):
I don't know how to explain itother than God made them here.
They made, they made them present.
He made them to be with us ina relationship in real time.
So we're not thinking about our worriesof what is to come, and we're not really
ruminating on the past because it'sjust so rewarding to be in relationship
with the horse and it feels good.
It feels good on your fingertips.
Right?
It feels good when they breatheonto your face because Christian
(18:42):
will put his muzzle right up toyour face and he'll breathe deeply.
And it's kind of like a littlemassage or a song or a whisper,
Cliff DuVernois (18:48):
right?
Sarah Buffman (18:50):
It's like a warm hug.
Kind of like Olaf.
I like warm hugs somewhere,but it's from a horse.
Cliff DuVernois (18:56):
Because when you talk about now with, you know,
the horses, it's not just stayingthere and petting the horse.
'cause you had me in the arena.
Mm-hmm.
I had the horse, I was walkingwith the horse sometimes with
the bridal, sometimes I wasn't.
you had me using one of the combs.
On the horse, walking aroundcones and everything else.
So it's literally, I amworking with the horse.
(19:18):
There's this thousand pound creature thatis walking next to me the whole time.
Sarah Buffman (19:23):
Yes.
It's not all about anexistential experience.
It's not something that'sunachievable or understandable.
It's about learning a skillor focusing on one thing.
And again, I keep using theword relationship because
that's really what it is.
Here at Redemption Hill,we focus on horsemanship.
Horsemanship leads us to the otherthings like discovering who God created
(19:44):
us to be and discovering our strengthsand how we overcome our weaknesses.
Cliff DuVernois (19:48):
Right?
But
Sarah Buffman (19:48):
you do it through walking with a horse.
So when participants come, they learnhow to go put a halter on their horse.
They learn how to walk with their horseon the ground, how to brush a horse,
how to care for their horse's wounds.
And then if they go so far,they can learn how to ride.
They can learn how to ground drive.
They can learn how toprepare them for a show.
We use skills that are appealingand applicable to the rest of life.
(20:14):
Like think of your four H kids.
How many of them end up with great valuesbecause you're learning to care for and
pay attention to something outside of you,
Cliff DuVernois (20:21):
correct.
Sarah Buffman (20:22):
Which then mirrors the inside of you and
the value that God placed there.
Cliff DuVernois (20:26):
It's not an emphasis on screen time.
Sarah Buffman (20:28):
No.
Cliff DuVernois (20:29):
It's the emphasis now is on the outside of you.
And we kind of discussed this beforethe microphones came on about.
When you have that horse and you arein charge of it, when you're walking
around the arena, that horse isfollowing you, maybe not in charge of it.
Leader, right?
You're leading that horse.
So where's the horse gonna go?
How is the horse going to act?
(20:51):
That is all something that hasto come from the inside out.
Yes.
As far as as a person goes.
So if you want the horse to turnto the left or turn to the right
or follow you or walk fast or walkslow, that's all coming from inside.
So you're now, you're having to thinkabout something greater than yourself.
Sarah Buffman (21:06):
Exactly.
It's all about what our insides producein other people or other beings.
And God gave us dominion over animals,but how does he expect us to do it?
Love with respect.
With dignity and kindness,
Cliff DuVernois (21:21):
which is the second greatest commandment.
Sarah Buffman (21:23):
Love God and love others.
Cliff DuVernois (21:24):
There you go.
And what I would like to do now is, youmentioned this before and this story
has really captured my heart on a verypersonal level, is when we talk about
people, we really haven't delineateda difference so much between adults.
Versus children.
Mm-hmm.
What I would like to do is, youwere telling me before the story
(21:45):
about, uh, a child that you wereworking with from your school that
was almost kicked out of school.
Give us a little bit about thatbackstory and then we'll just kind
of expand from there and just howthe therapy is is impacting her.
Sarah Buffman (22:00):
One of Redemption Hill's Specialties is serving children, and it's
not so much through just bringing them outto have a fun experience and a fun time.
It's taking the children who feellike they've been rejected from the
rest of the world or don't fit in,and giving them a place where they're
loved, unconditionally seen and heard.
I had a f.
Student of mine who had a seriousbackground of abuse and neglect.
(22:23):
She was pushed out of her mother's homeand her father's home, and she was living
with another family member who may ormay not wanted to have custody of her.
This child was full of fear.
Full of anxiety and uncertainty and doubt,and that resulted in fear of other people
because when you're scared, how do youprotect yourself, especially when you feel
(22:43):
like you have nobody watching your back.
So she would lash out with a lotof violence, and in second grade,
she was almost removed from theschool system because it was hard
to keep her and her peers safe.
But God put a call in my heart.
To trust and bring back?
No, just to
Cliff DuVernois (22:59):
go back here, the thing, the story that stands out to me was when
you said she pulled a toilet off the wall.
Sarah Buffman (23:04):
Toilet off the wall
Cliff DuVernois (23:05):
in second grade.
Sarah Buffman (23:06):
Mm-hmm.
Cliff DuVernois (23:07):
Okay.
Yeah.
Continue
Sarah Buffman (23:10):
trusted God to bring her out here and Christian.
Our gentle friend who speaksdeep or speaks to the deep
hurts of our soul, chose her.
It's like he literally suckedher in with his tiny nostril
that's been reconstructed.
Cliff DuVernois (23:23):
So it's kinda like a little bit of an interview, right?
She comes here and she spends alittle bit of time with the horses,
and what you're looking for is this.
There's some kind of a chemistrybetween her and one of the horses
that you have in this case.
Sarah Buffman (23:35):
The horse chose her.
It was Christian.
Cliff DuVernois (23:37):
Okay?
Sarah Buffman (23:37):
Sometimes you choose a horse based on the skill you wanna
achieve, and sometimes you haveto go based on the a relationship
connection between the two.
And this gentle horse spoke to thosedeep places of hurt in her soul, and
he has been her place of confidence.
So this girl.
Who, I don't even knowhow much she weighs.
Not very much comes out and shelearns that she can be a partner
(23:59):
to a thousand pound animal, andthat thousand pound being respects
her enough to keep her safe.
Even in the moments where sometimes hegets scared and then they can work through
new skills that sometimes are reallyfrustrating, and then she can learn how
to care for something that is much bigger.
Herself.
So after learning how to care for athousand pound horse and overcoming the
(24:21):
fears of what if they step on my toe?
What if they take offwith me in the arena?
What if, oh my goodness, all the what ifs.
She can then learn to work witha hundred pound peer at school,
Cliff DuVernois (24:32):
right?
Sarah Buffman (24:32):
Or a 200 pound adult who has to put down
boundaries that she doesn't like.
It makes us more ready to acceptwhat's going on in the world when
we discover what God put in us inthe first place here in the barn.
Cliff DuVernois (24:45):
So now, how long have you been working with her now?
Sarah Buffman (24:48):
She's been coming to the barn since October.
Okay.
Of 2024.
Cliff DuVernois (24:52):
And now what?
What personally have you noticedin her being the school success?
Sarah Buffman (24:58):
Coordinator.
Cliff DuVernois (24:59):
Coordinator, thank you.
Sarah Buffman (25:00):
A made up a made up title to make me fit.
we've noticed that she'smore willing to listen.
She's more willing to breathethrough and work through hard times.
She now has friends.
Oh, incredible.
Who used to be her enemies?
When somebody or something scaresher or makes her upset, she's more
willing to say, I forgive you.
(25:21):
There was, a night when one of herabusers had passed, and it's strange
for a child because sometimes whenthe abuser is also your caregiver, you
don't know how you should feel, right?
'cause you should love them.
Also they've broken your trust.
And so everybody was expectingthis big meltdown from her.
And she walked into thebarn and went to Christian.
(25:44):
And when, others had said, anticipatea problem, she just melted into him.
And then she took him into thearena and started grooming.
And she started chatting.
And what came out of hermouth was, I forgive her.
Learning that she could had value inherself outside of the other experiences,
and that this horse sees value andbeauty in her because she doesn't
(26:06):
provide for this horse, like she doesn'ttake care of it on a daily basis.
She doesn't have to bribe him with treats.
He just wants to spend time withher that taught her that God.
Gave her value.
And when you can see your value, you thenunderstand who you were created to be,
even with the mistakes of a fallen world.
So she forgave that person and now wesee that she cares more for other people.
(26:29):
She's always been a caring person.
But it's interesting when we have amoment where somebody's frustrating
her or somebody else is makinga bad decision, and she'll say.
I used to struggle with that.
Maybe you should try this instead.
Right, right.
And I always wanna say,are you the therapist here?
Cliff DuVernois (26:47):
The thing I have to, I wanna circle back on, 'cause you, you
mentioned, you made a comment about howyou started working with her in October
and as of this recording that wouldput that approximately nine, 10 months
ago into the past, this is a process.
Mm-hmm.
This isn't something where it's,you know, pop a pill or read a book
or learn some kind of a framework.
(27:07):
This is process of in this particularcase, the child learning about
themselves, but also learning aboutthe horse and then how the two of them
work together and, and come together.
And you made this brief commentabout the skills that you now learn
because you're taking care of thishorse that you're now in charge of.
Sarah Buffman (27:27):
Yeah, it's not gonna say that there's not gonna be
moments where you slip backwards,and that's the whole point of growth.
It's like going on a new diet, right?
You're gonna be so enthusiastic andyou're gonna be making improvements,
and you're gonna be making gains,and then there's gonna be one time
when you get really frustrated andyou slip up and you make a mistake,
Cliff DuVernois (27:43):
right?
Sarah Buffman (27:44):
Or it's gonna be the same with working out.
You're gonna get so tired from workingout that you're gonna give up at one
point and then you're gonna backslide,
Cliff DuVernois (27:50):
right?
Sarah Buffman (27:51):
So growth is always a process.
Mm-hmm.
And it takes time.
And when people don't give it time, thenyou're setting yourself up for failure.
Cliff DuVernois (27:59):
Right.
Sarah Buffman (28:00):
But part of the beauty of Redemption Hill is when you learn
relationship and you learn who youare on the inside, it sets you up with
the skills and the strength to endureall that comes along, especially the
moments that would have set you back.
Now with this person inparticular, this child.
(28:20):
There were moments that werere-traumatizing for her,
Cliff DuVernois (28:23):
right?
Sarah Buffman (28:23):
And we take standardized assessments of self-esteem and
resilience at the start and at 12 weeks.
And so far, every participantwho's in our program has made gains
in self-esteem and resilience.
While this student did not,she didn't slide backwards.
And honestly, some of the thingsshe went through during her time
with us over the past nine or10 months could have been very.
(28:47):
Very bad.
So we're proud that we gave her theskills to endure and to continue on.
That's what resilience is all about,the ability to overcome hardship.
Cliff DuVernois (28:59):
Sarah, if somebody is listening to this and they
want to check out more about you.
The horse therapy.
Maybe they even know of somebodywho could be, of who, who needs
this, who could benefit from this.
How can they find you?
What's the best way to connect with you?
Sarah Buffman (29:17):
Our website, redemption Hill ranch.org
has all of our information about thetwo programs we offer our horsemanship
program and our decompression sessions.
It helps you meet the herdwith little bios on each horse.
It helps you learn what it takesto be a part of our program.
As far as cost orscholarship opportunities.
(29:38):
We wanna make sure that everybodyhas the opportunity no matter what.
More importantly, there'slinks to our socials on there.
We are on Facebook andInstagram, which are updated
more regularly than the website.
Mm-hmm.
So you can find us atRedemption Hill Ranch.
You might have to put Vassar inthere to find us on Facebook.
but we hope you'll share it.
At the very least.
Hop on there, check outFacebook, see what we're posting.
(29:59):
Sometimes there's thecrazy antics of the horses.
Sometimes there's life lessons that can belearned even from the tractor seat, right.
Doing hay.
Cliff DuVernois (30:08):
Green Acres.
Sarah Buffman (30:09):
Green Acres is the place to be.
Cliff DuVernois (30:11):
Sarah, thank you so much for taking time to chat with us today.
I have thoroughly enjoyed this.
This place is just beautiful.
I love spending time with your horses.
So thank you so much for openingup your doors to us today.
Sarah Buffman (30:23):
Thank you for the opportunity and for joining us.
Cliff DuVernois (30:26):
For our audience, you can always go to total michigan.com.
Click on Sarah's interview,and get the links and all the
information that she mentioned above.
We will see you next time when we talkto another ordinary Michigander doing
some pretty extraordinary things.
We'll see you then.
I.
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