May 9, 2025 • 26 mins
Meet Ken and Wilda Hopper, founders of Bird's Eye Outfitters in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan. They aren’t just launching kayaks—they’re launching a movement to reconnect people with nature. From kayaking through the Soo Locks to snowshoeing by lantern light, their mission blends outdoor adventure with health and community connection.
- What it’s like to kayak through the Soo Locks (yes, it’s legal!)
- How Bird’s Eye is promoting mental and physical health through trail building and nutrition
- The hidden gems of Chippewa County for adventurers of all levels
Bird’s Eye Outfitters
107 E Portage Ave, Sault Ste. Marie, MI
Website: birdseyeoutfitters.com
Facebook: Facebook
Outhouse Consortium (nonprofit)
Website: outhouseconsortium.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (00:00):
We're always trying to celebrate the uniqueness
(00:01):
of this town What we want them tounderstand is that we've got freighters.
But we are way more than big boats.
We've got a playground up here.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (00:11):
And the great thing about bringing groups of people
together like hiking groups or, paddlegroups, whatever the case may be, is
that you bring people from differentareas that bring different experiences
and educate others to create newexperiences with what we have locally.
So you can celebrate what we have.
Cliff Duvernois (00:28):
Hello everyone.
Welcome back to Total Michigan, wherewe interview ordinary Michiganders
doing extraordinary things.
I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.
When people think of Sault Saint Marie,they think about freighters or locks.
But what if there's another side toMichigan's oldest city, one that's
filled with exploration and adventure?
Imagine kayaking through the Soo Locks,snowshoeing by lantern light, or even
(00:53):
paddle boarding past forested islands.
This isn't just tourism,it's an adventure.
And guiding people on that adventureare Ken and Wilda Hopper, the
duo Behind Bird's Eye Outfitterslocated in Sault Saint Marie.
Ken Wilda, how are you?
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (01:09):
wonderful.
Thank you.
Feeling great.
Excellent.
Yeah, doing great.
So, Ken, tell us a little bit aboutwhere you're from and where you grew up.
I am native to Sault Ste Marie.
I grew up here, born and raisedhere, moved away, went to college,
traveled a little bit, traveled a lot.
got a, where'd you go to college?
11 miles.
I went to Central Michigan University.
Oh, okay.
And they would expect me at thatpoint in time to say, fire up.
(01:30):
So fire up.
Nice.
well.
I know you got a love for nature andwe're definitely gonna explore that.
Wilda, why don't you tell us whereyou're from, where you grew up.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (01:37):
Okay, so well, born in New York City, Long Island,
and moved to Fort Myers, Florida.
Okay.
And then moved up to Michigan.
So through my college, I guess in my highschool years, I was a nanny up here, would
come up for the summers, fell in love withthis area, and, came to college up here.
So it was awesome.
So when you said did, do you got a nannyposition up here, were you looking to
(02:00):
come to the up or were you just no, Iwant the exact opposite of Long Island?
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye: No, actually no, actually. (02:04):
undefined
Okay.
So the nanny position came aboutbecause, I went to church with a couple
who had kids and they had a cabin uphere and needed someone to help out
with kids in the summer, so I wasabsolutely ready to adventure up north.
So
beautiful.
Yeah.
And then of course, I'm gonnaassume that you guys met here.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (02:27):
Yes.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (02:27):
Yep, we did.
How did you guys meet?
Not at Birdseye.
We created that.
Yes.
Yeah, we, we both worked for the sameorganization, Bay Mills Indian Community.
Okay.
which is 20 miles west of here.
I was running a Boys and Girls Cluband she was working in human resources.
And I don't know, somebodyprobably reported me to human
(02:47):
resources and No, I'm kidding.
I think we had an interactionabout, gymnastics program that
we wanted to start out there.
Okay.
So that was the first initial one.
And then I asked her ifshe wanted to buy my car.
And then, oh, there's a first date.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (03:00):
Yeah.
I worked with the legal departmentRisk manager management out there.
yeah, it was an interesting meetupand we just started chatting.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (03:09):
There you go.
She's very influential.
Cliff DuVernois (2): And the rest is history. (03:11):
undefined
The rest is history.
Yes.
So let's talk a little bit aboutthe creation of Bird's Eye.
What was your initialthought like coming into it?
What is Bird's Eye?
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (03:23):
Yes.
Wow.
That's a great question.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (03:26):
okay, here's something interesting.
So Ken did a lot of, west coastadventuring before I met him,
and I did a lot of East coastadventuring before I met him.
so when you're talking aboutadventuring, what does that mean?
So he, I think, I guess he can speak to his
experiences, but he went to Colorado,California, like hiking, I think
and all kinds of, fun outdoorsyadventures and was very, avid kayaker.
(03:51):
I've a lot of backpacking.
Yeah.
And I'm more of like paddle boardingand being on the beach and, the
Adirondacks like hiking the Adirondacks.
So I did a lot of east coastadventures through my, experiences
with college friends and Right family.
And so when we came together InSault Ste Marie, like one of the
things I know I noticed when I firstcame here is like there aren't a
(04:12):
lot of people like getting outside.
So a lot of people would talk aboutMarquette and Petoskey and all the
other places that they could go.
Or even like Sault Ontario, likein Canada cuz they're space is
incredible over there as well.
The realization was that people weren'tcomfortable getting outside on their
own and they didn't know what to do.
(04:34):
What to pack, how to experiencean outdoor adventure.
What do I, what kind of backpack?
What type of, gear do I have?
What type of, it would seem apparel.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (04:43):
What we learn through observation as well
as research is people as a whole areapprehensive, to participate in something
they are not familiar with, right?
So you've gotta find a wayto bridge that, that chasm.
So there is some handholding, butwe wanna see people take it upon
(05:04):
themselves to get the initiative to go.
And one thing that we found out thatwe'll probably delve into later is you
need the infrastructure in a community.
In order to have these outdooropportunities, not a lot of people
are into bush whacking, which isgoing in just, uncharted areas
of the woods where they have tofight through branches and whatnot.
They want, recreational facilitiesprovided for them to get them
(05:28):
outside and get them Start off close.
Yes.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (05:29):
Start off small.
You start off small like in, yes.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (05:32):
in combination with the store, how were we gonna get there?
And so that's when we decidedto develop a non-for-profit.
That was to develop, maintain, andpromote non-motorized trails in our
area, whether they be water trails orcross country ski trails, or snowshoe
or hiking or biking or whatever it is.
So you're doing all those sports, right?
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (05:50):
Yeah.
And bring bringing groups of peopletogether that are like-minded to to
feed off of each other, to educateeach other, to help each other out.
You
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (05:57):
sure's strength and that's what we see.
So we started forming clubs too.
Like we've got a running club thatcomes outta here, hiking club.
We're gonna get anotherbiking, a paddling club.
Cause we're not all the same.
There are people that are more comfortabledoing these activities on their own.
But I think a majority of uslike to have a shared experience.
Let's go for a paddle.
(06:19):
And then afterwards,let's not just split off.
Let's go to Bird's Eye and have a beerand talk about, today's activities
or what we saw, look at our selfies.
Debrief,
right?
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (06:29):
Debrief.
And the great thing about bringing groupsof people together or bringing, like
sending it out there, that we're gonnahave hiking groups or running groups
or, Paddle groups, whatever the casemay be, is that you bring people from
different competencies, from differentareas that bring different experiences
and educate others to create newexperiences with what we have locally.
So you can celebrate what we have.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (06:50):
People have come out of the woodwork, like-minded
people that want, they see our passionand they wanna be involved in it and
share their knowledge with people too.
Cuz it isn't just Wilda andI, there's a show here, but it
takes a lot more people to have aparadigm shift within a community.
And I think we're, just inthe midst of it right now.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye: so definitely like hiking. (07:11):
undefined
So hiking and then in thewintertime organically that
transforms into snowshoeing.
So we, we've actually been doingfor the past like three years,
lantern lit, snowshoe hikes,which that brings families out.
That would be cool.
Oh yeah.
It brings, it's beautiful, bringsfamily, it brings families out, right?
yes.
It brings, it, it creates a nightfor an adventure with kids and people
(07:33):
are getting outdoors, they're moving.
I get that, that you wanna get peopleout and get them to experience nature
and that there was this, this void inSault Ste marie to make that happen.
But why is that important to you?
Why is it important for you toget people out health to enjoy it?
Health.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (07:51):
Health there.
Health in every aspect.
Mental health.
Spiritual emotional health?
physical health.
Yeah, physical health because we,so aside from just, bringing people
out on adventures and we actuallyalso, are certified to do standup
paddleboard lessons, kayak lessons.
Like we, we bring, we do hiking 1 0 1.
Aside from that, we also areunique in our area that we, offer
(08:14):
a lot of cleaner food options.
And by cleaner we mean likenon-dairy, non-gluten options,
things that people are looking for.
Foods that are highlynutrient dense, right?
That give you energy and, that arejust all around healthy for you.
We have that love, that passionfor health and wellness.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (08:32):
We want people to care about themselves and their physical
and mental and spiritual health and itisn't through just experimentation in
our experiences like we we researchedthese things like she is a volume of
knowledge when it comes to gut healthand how what goes into your body affects
all of everything that's connected.
(08:54):
And I,
which I imagine impacts your menu.
It does.
That's here.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
And I'm concerned about, Wilda and I havesix kids together, We're watching them,
we're gonna have a lot of grandkids.
Yes, you are.
Be fruitful and multiply.
Watching them grow up and thinking about yourself and
you're younger and the struggles they gothrough and watching them try to handle
(09:16):
life and everything that's thrown at 'em.
If you have a safe placethat you can go to.
there, there are research papers showingthat we're losing our connection with
nature and it's having some mentalhealth effects to us as a community
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (09:32):
and physical, like physical and mental.
Yeah.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (09:34):
We need to get people back in touch with something
that we need to be in touch with,like we, I'm an ecologist at heart.
It's all, everything working together.
there's a symbiosis that hasto happen and we're trying to
separate ourselves from that.
Why?
To make things convenient.
We don't, it, it's watching asunset or hiking to the woods and
(09:56):
not hearing the noise of a city is,it's, it's a spiritual experience,
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (10:02):
it's disconnecting from the things
that you don't have to always stayconnected to or be connected to.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (10:08):
We're disconnecting from mode, airplane mode,
disconnecting from the wrong things.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (10:11):
Yes.
Airplane mode.
Airplane mode.
This is what we need.
Airplane mode.
yes.
I love that.
I was just thinking,disconnect from your phone.
Connect with nature.
Yes.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (10:17):
Yes.
We're disconnecting with the wrong things.
That's my opinion, but, I thinkit's backed up with some research,
For our audience, we're gonna take aquick break to thank our sponsors, and
when we come back we're gonna talk toKen and Wila about how you can make the
most out of your experience with BirdEye.
We'll see you after the break.
Cliff Duvernois (10:34):
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Hello everyone and welcomeback to Total Michigan.
(11:35):
I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.
Today I'm sitting with Ken andWila Hopper from Bird's Eye
Outfitters in Sault Ste Marie.
And we are talking about all kindsof activities outdoors that they do.
Now, before you were mentioningabout kayaking and snowshoeing
and hiking and stuff.
One of the events that we did todaybefore we filmed this, is we went
(11:57):
kayaking through the Soo locks, whichI didn't even know you could do.
Oh yeah.
So kudos to that.
So talk to us, wheredid that idea come from?
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (12:05):
When I worked in Bay Mills, I would take
teenagers out that, on adventures.
And one of the trips, I found out thatthe Canadian lock took pleasure craft
through, and I just called over thereand said, can I bring a canoe through?
Yeah.
And so we had a fleet of canoes.
And where At the club, or Wecalled it Adventure camp at
(12:29):
that time, I think, wasn't it?
Okay.
So then, we left from the airporton the Canadian side and paddled
our canoes all along the coastline.
All the way to BellevuePark on the Canadian side.
And we started on the Canadianside, went through the lock, and
then it was a great experience.
And so we started looking at mapsand how we could leave from American
(12:49):
side and end up on the American side.
And then we brought some professionalsthat teach kayaking all over the world.
And they happen to bein Lansing, Michigan.
They're called the Power of Water.
Trey, shout out to Trey, right?
They came up trained guides andwent through the trip with us to,
to, see how it would work out.
(13:10):
And they brought some really trainedpeople and just really went through the
whole trip with a fine tooth comb andcame back with their recommendations and,
deemed it as a trip that would be doable.
And it ended up, you went on it today,it was a, and it was pretty incredible.
And I love kayaking, why don't you walk usthrough what the kayak trip would entail?
(13:30):
Like how do we go into the locks?
What are some things that youcan expect when you get in there?
Sure.
We'll get a booking and I'llpersonally reach out and say, weather
looks good, weather looks bad.
We err to the side of safety, Wildamentioned she was a risk manager in the
past and, we wanna keep people safe, yes.
So definitely.
Yeah.
Yes.
As you increase your skills inthe kayaking community, it becomes
(13:53):
a pretty small group of peoplethat talk about the industry.
There's kayaking businessesthat like to pump people
through and they get criticized.
And we're not one of those.
We look out for your safety.
So you know from, and weappreciate that at the start.
I'm saying, this iswhy we use these boats.
This is why you have to wear this.
This is what this is for.
And we go through a little one-on-onebefore we take anybody out.
(14:15):
And when I reach out, I ask if anybody hasany kayaking experience, usually via text.
And they'll feedback.
So this feedback for all
levels.
You don't even have tobe an experience guy.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (14:24):
Yeah, we, I think we prefer that you have some experience.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (14:27):
Some experience.
Okay.
Yeah.
you can see, so we're talkingabout, five miles, of paddling.
We could be out for three hoursdepending on the speed of the paddler.
there's been situations where I've notgone on a trip and, And I look at wind
speed and direction and the current ofthe water and how much the dams that
control the rapids are open, right?
(14:48):
So there's a lot into our decision making.
And ultimately, if we cancel a trip,you should be disappointed you didn't
get to go on the trip, but leastsome flexibility in your schedule.
Because from day to day in the UpperPeninsula or any Michigander knows
the weather can change on the weather.
Yeah.
Yes, definitely.
and it has.
So we launch off the kayaks.
(15:09):
We're out into the water.
Then when we come up to thelocks, what happens next?
The first part of the tour is the launch point.
And we talk about some, localhighlights, historical aspects,
and there's usually some bird life.
And I'm a bird nerd.
So when we first start out, I liketo talk about what's there and
history of the place, and then geta feel for the customer and how
(15:31):
comfortable they are in their kayak.
I'm not gonna take 'em out if they'renot 100% ready to go and comfortable.
Sure.
And then you're right after that,you're cutting across the face
of the locks, the American locks.
Sure.
And there's hazards.
There's boat traffic.
There's You, we don't play chicken withthousand foot freighters, cuz Yeah.
Let's not, you're not gonna win that one.
(15:52):
And then we approach the Canadian lock.
We call ahead, let 'emknow that we're coming.
and their lock system is notso much for commerce where
the American lock system is.
The Canadian lock system is forrecreational craft and people that
wanna travel from the upper riverto the lower river or vice versa.
So then we enter the canal,we let 'em know we're coming.
(16:13):
They give us feedback, say, okay, it'llbe whatever, 15 minutes to fill the lock.
And then we enter it.
And then we deck our boats together,tie off, and we lower 21 feet.
What did it take today, lake?
Eight minutes or something.
Yeah, it was super fast.
Yeah.
Cuz both
you talking about haveboth valves are working.
Yeah.
You're talking about goinginto the actual lock, right?
(16:33):
Yeah.
So they open up the doors, you go inside.
And then we get lowered down and
then, it's a great experience.
You, at one minute you're talkingto the guy on the edge of the lock
wall, and then the next minuteyou, because you're up high.
Yep.
So you can, then you can see themand then within, like you said,
it's, it felt like 10 minutes.
It, you could feel the level.
Yep.
going down inside the kayak
they pulled the plug out of the bathtub Yeah.
(16:54):
So to speak.
Yeah.
So then you're, you dropped downand, the 21 feet, it's 21 feet.
Yep.
It, so you're talking abouttwo different lake levels.
Lake Superior is 21 feet higherthan Lake here on Lake Michigan.
So then when we're on the lower river,you see the gates open up in front
of you and then everybody makes theuniversal sound that angels make, or we
(17:15):
assume they do cuz it happens on everytrip and it remained the case today.
So then we exit the lock andwe're still in, what would
be known as Canadian waters.
And we skirt the Canadian shorelineand then we cut across the base
of the rapids and you can feelthe force of the water when you're
(17:35):
cutting across it and it's just you.
You know how small you are.
And then we cut across there overto, the American side, going across
the lower part of the locks and wego by the, museum ship Valley Camp.
And so after the valley camp, we go infront of what would be the end of the
manmade canal that cuts through the city.
(17:56):
And so you've got a confluence of watersthere, the current that goes downstream
and the current that cuts in there.
And you've got swirling waters.
But this, hydroelectric plant thatwe have in town is very impressive.
It's a quarter milelong, hand cut sandstone.
At one point in time, the largesthydroelectric plant in the world, and
in the backdrop you've got Canada,Sugar Islands and it's a great backdrop.
(18:19):
It ends up being a really nice trip.
One of the things that I wouldlike to explore with you, you
mentioned before about nonprofit.
Why don't you talk to us aboutthis nonprofit, what it is,
what do you hope to do with it?
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (18:32):
Our nonprofit is called, Outhouse Consortium.
So OUT is an acronym forOutdoor Use of Trails.
And the reason why we put it together isbecause we wanted to create trail systems.
Like we have to like, help develop theinfrastructure so that we can really
promote the activities that we're wantingto have, like right in the Sault system.
(18:53):
So we did create a trail behind BuffaloWild Wings in our Ashman Creek area,
which is about 300 acres of land.
Wow.
City owned property.
Yeah.
And we've, we partnered with LittleTraverses Conservancy to help us
secure some land within that areaso we can create trail systems.
(19:14):
Now the trail systems that we are gonnacreate, there are, are, we actually
have already created a couple of,hiking trails and we're looking to
create biking, a biking trail system.
And then we're also looking to createbike trails like within the city.
And then water trail systems withinour, or own our shores so that we
have, people can get out in safelyin different areas of the St.
(19:38):
Mary's river.
We already do guided trips like,around road, Rotary Island.
So Rotary Island Park.
There's a little cluster ofislands that are fantastic.
And one of the islandsis called Voyager Island.
And we actually created, helped tocreate a trail system on Voyager Island.
But you can only get there by Kayak.
(20:00):
Oh, wonderful.
It makes it, it makes it really, yeah.
Awesome and unique.
And yeah, that's, the,getting people moving
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye: The 300 acre project. (20:06):
undefined
It's just in creation.
But if we could paint a picture,we have, a company out of
Houghton called Rock Solid.
And Rock Solid.
We come to find out works allover the nation, and we walked
this property last week, soeverything's really fresh right now.
But they're gonna be doing our conceptualdrawings so that we can better communicate
(20:30):
to the public the potential of this pieceof property that is gonna serve as a hub.
So it's not only gonna berecreation, it's gonna be transit.
So you talk about benefits of trailsystems, and you're going back to talking
about mental health and physical healthand keeping people safe so they're not
on the shoulder of the road and theycan still get from point A to point B.
Beyond that, the recreational aspect is,walking with a guy, John from Rock Solid.
(20:55):
He is thinking that we'll probably endup with, over 10 miles of mountain bike
trail within our city limits Oh, wow.
With our university, asone of the trail heads.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (21:06):
So it's wild to know that you have that topography here
within the city, I would've never known,
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (21:12):
but it's fantastic.
we love, our situation.
We're always trying to celebratethe uniqueness of this town and
what we're, what we want people thatcome visit to, what we want them to
understand is that we've got freighters.
But we are way more than big boats.
We've got a playground up here.
We've got a national forestwith thousands of acres.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (21:34):
We are surrounded in Chippewa County.
We are surrounded byfantastic trail systems.
So it's not just likewithin the our city limit.
We've got like Round IslandPoint, which is just west of us.
that's like a short,like 10, 15 minute drive.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (21:48):
Bay Mills you've got to overlook for, yep.
Monaco, you're overlookingtwo inland lakes.
The, basically the funnel of where theeast end of Lake Superior is and the St.
Mary's river starts and you'relooking at, cliffsides of grow cap
over in Ontario from this overlookthat not many people know about.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (22:07):
So when we were talking about the,
lantern lit snowshoe hikes Yes.
Earlier.
So we started those to getpeople, to see the trail systems
within the Ashman Creek area.
So to promote that area.
So we actually, we createdour own trail system.
We blazed it.
This summer we'll have a trailheadup so that people can access it
(22:28):
or, A little more readily than justpointing at Yes, go it that way.
But that in and of itself, like the,the land snowshoe hikes are what helped
create awareness for what we have here.
So that gained a lot of momentumto the point where, the city
actually started paying attention.
And now they are huge advocatesand partners with our organization
(22:51):
to help make the Ashman Creekproject come to fruition.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (22:55):
I think, it's just a special group of people.
Our board is very involved, verydynamic, and they understand the
value of their volunteer time.
They know that it's going towardsa project that is A, feasible,
and B, pretty awesome, right?
We're moving forward and we'reseeing that progress in a shorter
(23:16):
timeframe than we expected.
Our purpose of this whole trailsystem and this effort at Ashman
Creek is to connect the community.
You can make a loop around thewhole city, eventually via hiking.
And then hop in a kayak andcomplete the loop on the St.
Mary's river.
And I do wanna circle back cuzyou, this caught my attention
when you said it, the biking part.
(23:39):
So is this something that you're currentlydoing or is it something that's like in
the works you're getting ready to release?
When is that?
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (23:44):
in our business, yeah, we we brought
in, Box Hole bike and ski.
So they are another businesswithin our business.
They have the same mindset as us.
So they actually jumped on our outhouseboard, and we're, they're gonna have
bikes that are gonna be available to rent.
They obviously, right now,as you look around our store,
(24:05):
they're selling their bikes.
Yes, they are.
We have bat bikes.
We have gravel grinders, mountainbikes, road bikes, kid chi, like kid.
Kid bikes.
family friendly.
Everything family friend friendly.
And then we're also going, we're,they're actually in partnership
with us to help create thesebike lanes and these bike routes.
And on top of that, we have thisSault area Arts Center who is looking
(24:27):
at getting these grant fundingsfor like asphalt art where we can
highlight the bicycle lanes and routes,locally so that it keeps people safe.
Because what we're seeing is as you'redriving down the road, you'll see,
vehicles like, like driving in bicyclelane areas and it's just, that's not safe.
we thought, how could we highlightthat these are biking, bicycle lanes.
(24:49):
And so Sault Area Art Center ispartnering with us and we will have
like asphalt art that will highlightour bicycle lanes to keep people
safe.
Ken Wila, I, we could talkabout this all afternoon.
So the question now I got for you isthat if somebody's listening to this
interview, they want to check outwhat it is that you're doing, check
out more about your business, maybethey're planning to trip up here to the
(25:11):
S and they want to connect with you,what's the best place to send them to?
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye: birds Eye Outfitters. (25:15):
undefined
Do com.
Yeah.
Birds happy.
and then we've, there's a websitefor the nonprofit as well.
It's outhouse consortium.org.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Otherwise, send 'em to 1 0 7East Portage Birdseye Outfitters.
Nice.
Nice.
You can't
miss it.
Yeah.
Downtown.
Perfect.
Ken Wila, thank you so much for takingtime to be with us today and talking
(25:35):
about the great things you're doing.
I love that kayak experience.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (25:38):
Great.
That is awesome.
Next time
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (25:41):
we're gonna do it on a paddle board.
Yes, paddle board.
Definitely have to do that.
For our audience, you can alwaysroll on over to total michigan.com.
Click on Ken and Wilder'sinterview and you'll get all the
links that they mentioned above.
We'll see you next week when we haveanother story of a, ordinary Michiganders
doing some pretty extraordinary things.
We'll see you then.
We're always trying to celebrate the uniqueness
(00:01):
of this town What we want them tounderstand is that we've got freighters.
But we are way more than big boats.
We've got a playground up here.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (00:11):
And the great thing about bringing groups of people
together like hiking groups or, paddlegroups, whatever the case may be, is
that you bring people from differentareas that bring different experiences
and educate others to create newexperiences with what we have locally.
So you can celebrate what we have.
Cliff Duvernois (00:28):
Hello everyone.
Welcome back to Total Michigan, wherewe interview ordinary Michiganders
doing extraordinary things.
I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.
When people think of Sault Saint Marie,they think about freighters or locks.
But what if there's another side toMichigan's oldest city, one that's
filled with exploration and adventure?
Imagine kayaking through the Soo Locks,snowshoeing by lantern light, or even
(00:53):
paddle boarding past forested islands.
This isn't just tourism,it's an adventure.
And guiding people on that adventureare Ken and Wilda Hopper, the
duo Behind Bird's Eye Outfitterslocated in Sault Saint Marie.
Ken Wilda, how are you?
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (01:09):
wonderful.
Thank you.
Feeling great.
Excellent.
Yeah, doing great.
So, Ken, tell us a little bit aboutwhere you're from and where you grew up.
I am native to Sault Ste Marie.
I grew up here, born and raisedhere, moved away, went to college,
traveled a little bit, traveled a lot.
got a, where'd you go to college?
11 miles.
I went to Central Michigan University.
Oh, okay.
And they would expect me at thatpoint in time to say, fire up.
(01:30):
So fire up.
Nice.
well.
I know you got a love for nature andwe're definitely gonna explore that.
Wilda, why don't you tell us whereyou're from, where you grew up.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (01:37):
Okay, so well, born in New York City, Long Island,
and moved to Fort Myers, Florida.
Okay.
And then moved up to Michigan.
So through my college, I guess in my highschool years, I was a nanny up here, would
come up for the summers, fell in love withthis area, and, came to college up here.
So it was awesome.
So when you said did, do you got a nannyposition up here, were you looking to
(02:00):
come to the up or were you just no, Iwant the exact opposite of Long Island?
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye: No, actually no, actually. (02:04):
undefined
Okay.
So the nanny position came aboutbecause, I went to church with a couple
who had kids and they had a cabin uphere and needed someone to help out
with kids in the summer, so I wasabsolutely ready to adventure up north.
So
beautiful.
Yeah.
And then of course, I'm gonnaassume that you guys met here.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (02:27):
Yes.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (02:27):
Yep, we did.
How did you guys meet?
Not at Birdseye.
We created that.
Yes.
Yeah, we, we both worked for the sameorganization, Bay Mills Indian Community.
Okay.
which is 20 miles west of here.
I was running a Boys and Girls Cluband she was working in human resources.
And I don't know, somebodyprobably reported me to human
(02:47):
resources and No, I'm kidding.
I think we had an interactionabout, gymnastics program that
we wanted to start out there.
Okay.
So that was the first initial one.
And then I asked her ifshe wanted to buy my car.
And then, oh, there's a first date.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (03:00):
Yeah.
I worked with the legal departmentRisk manager management out there.
yeah, it was an interesting meetupand we just started chatting.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (03:09):
There you go.
She's very influential.
Cliff DuVernois (2): And the rest is history. (03:11):
undefined
The rest is history.
Yes.
So let's talk a little bit aboutthe creation of Bird's Eye.
What was your initialthought like coming into it?
What is Bird's Eye?
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (03:23):
Yes.
Wow.
That's a great question.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (03:26):
okay, here's something interesting.
So Ken did a lot of, west coastadventuring before I met him,
and I did a lot of East coastadventuring before I met him.
so when you're talking aboutadventuring, what does that mean?
So he, I think, I guess he can speak to his
experiences, but he went to Colorado,California, like hiking, I think
and all kinds of, fun outdoorsyadventures and was very, avid kayaker.
(03:51):
I've a lot of backpacking.
Yeah.
And I'm more of like paddle boardingand being on the beach and, the
Adirondacks like hiking the Adirondacks.
So I did a lot of east coastadventures through my, experiences
with college friends and Right family.
And so when we came together InSault Ste Marie, like one of the
things I know I noticed when I firstcame here is like there aren't a
(04:12):
lot of people like getting outside.
So a lot of people would talk aboutMarquette and Petoskey and all the
other places that they could go.
Or even like Sault Ontario, likein Canada cuz they're space is
incredible over there as well.
The realization was that people weren'tcomfortable getting outside on their
own and they didn't know what to do.
(04:34):
What to pack, how to experiencean outdoor adventure.
What do I, what kind of backpack?
What type of, gear do I have?
What type of, it would seem apparel.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (04:43):
What we learn through observation as well
as research is people as a whole areapprehensive, to participate in something
they are not familiar with, right?
So you've gotta find a wayto bridge that, that chasm.
So there is some handholding, butwe wanna see people take it upon
(05:04):
themselves to get the initiative to go.
And one thing that we found out thatwe'll probably delve into later is you
need the infrastructure in a community.
In order to have these outdooropportunities, not a lot of people
are into bush whacking, which isgoing in just, uncharted areas
of the woods where they have tofight through branches and whatnot.
They want, recreational facilitiesprovided for them to get them
(05:28):
outside and get them Start off close.
Yes.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (05:29):
Start off small.
You start off small like in, yes.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (05:32):
in combination with the store, how were we gonna get there?
And so that's when we decidedto develop a non-for-profit.
That was to develop, maintain, andpromote non-motorized trails in our
area, whether they be water trails orcross country ski trails, or snowshoe
or hiking or biking or whatever it is.
So you're doing all those sports, right?
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (05:50):
Yeah.
And bring bringing groups of peopletogether that are like-minded to to
feed off of each other, to educateeach other, to help each other out.
You
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (05:57):
sure's strength and that's what we see.
So we started forming clubs too.
Like we've got a running club thatcomes outta here, hiking club.
We're gonna get anotherbiking, a paddling club.
Cause we're not all the same.
There are people that are more comfortabledoing these activities on their own.
But I think a majority of uslike to have a shared experience.
Let's go for a paddle.
(06:19):
And then afterwards,let's not just split off.
Let's go to Bird's Eye and have a beerand talk about, today's activities
or what we saw, look at our selfies.
Debrief,
right?
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (06:29):
Debrief.
And the great thing about bringing groupsof people together or bringing, like
sending it out there, that we're gonnahave hiking groups or running groups
or, Paddle groups, whatever the casemay be, is that you bring people from
different competencies, from differentareas that bring different experiences
and educate others to create newexperiences with what we have locally.
So you can celebrate what we have.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (06:50):
People have come out of the woodwork, like-minded
people that want, they see our passionand they wanna be involved in it and
share their knowledge with people too.
Cuz it isn't just Wilda andI, there's a show here, but it
takes a lot more people to have aparadigm shift within a community.
And I think we're, just inthe midst of it right now.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye: so definitely like hiking. (07:11):
undefined
So hiking and then in thewintertime organically that
transforms into snowshoeing.
So we, we've actually been doingfor the past like three years,
lantern lit, snowshoe hikes,which that brings families out.
That would be cool.
Oh yeah.
It brings, it's beautiful, bringsfamily, it brings families out, right?
yes.
It brings, it, it creates a nightfor an adventure with kids and people
(07:33):
are getting outdoors, they're moving.
I get that, that you wanna get peopleout and get them to experience nature
and that there was this, this void inSault Ste marie to make that happen.
But why is that important to you?
Why is it important for you toget people out health to enjoy it?
Health.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (07:51):
Health there.
Health in every aspect.
Mental health.
Spiritual emotional health?
physical health.
Yeah, physical health because we,so aside from just, bringing people
out on adventures and we actuallyalso, are certified to do standup
paddleboard lessons, kayak lessons.
Like we, we bring, we do hiking 1 0 1.
Aside from that, we also areunique in our area that we, offer
(08:14):
a lot of cleaner food options.
And by cleaner we mean likenon-dairy, non-gluten options,
things that people are looking for.
Foods that are highlynutrient dense, right?
That give you energy and, that arejust all around healthy for you.
We have that love, that passionfor health and wellness.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (08:32):
We want people to care about themselves and their physical
and mental and spiritual health and itisn't through just experimentation in
our experiences like we we researchedthese things like she is a volume of
knowledge when it comes to gut healthand how what goes into your body affects
all of everything that's connected.
(08:54):
And I,
which I imagine impacts your menu.
It does.
That's here.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
And I'm concerned about, Wilda and I havesix kids together, We're watching them,
we're gonna have a lot of grandkids.
Yes, you are.
Be fruitful and multiply.
Watching them grow up and thinking about yourself and
you're younger and the struggles they gothrough and watching them try to handle
(09:16):
life and everything that's thrown at 'em.
If you have a safe placethat you can go to.
there, there are research papers showingthat we're losing our connection with
nature and it's having some mentalhealth effects to us as a community
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (09:32):
and physical, like physical and mental.
Yeah.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (09:34):
We need to get people back in touch with something
that we need to be in touch with,like we, I'm an ecologist at heart.
It's all, everything working together.
there's a symbiosis that hasto happen and we're trying to
separate ourselves from that.
Why?
To make things convenient.
We don't, it, it's watching asunset or hiking to the woods and
(09:56):
not hearing the noise of a city is,it's, it's a spiritual experience,
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (10:02):
it's disconnecting from the things
that you don't have to always stayconnected to or be connected to.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (10:08):
We're disconnecting from mode, airplane mode,
disconnecting from the wrong things.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (10:11):
Yes.
Airplane mode.
Airplane mode.
This is what we need.
Airplane mode.
yes.
I love that.
I was just thinking,disconnect from your phone.
Connect with nature.
Yes.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (10:17):
Yes.
We're disconnecting with the wrong things.
That's my opinion, but, I thinkit's backed up with some research,
For our audience, we're gonna take aquick break to thank our sponsors, and
when we come back we're gonna talk toKen and Wila about how you can make the
most out of your experience with BirdEye.
We'll see you after the break.
Cliff Duvernois (10:34):
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(10:54):
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Hello everyone and welcomeback to Total Michigan.
(11:35):
I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.
Today I'm sitting with Ken andWila Hopper from Bird's Eye
Outfitters in Sault Ste Marie.
And we are talking about all kindsof activities outdoors that they do.
Now, before you were mentioningabout kayaking and snowshoeing
and hiking and stuff.
One of the events that we did todaybefore we filmed this, is we went
(11:57):
kayaking through the Soo locks, whichI didn't even know you could do.
Oh yeah.
So kudos to that.
So talk to us, wheredid that idea come from?
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (12:05):
When I worked in Bay Mills, I would take
teenagers out that, on adventures.
And one of the trips, I found out thatthe Canadian lock took pleasure craft
through, and I just called over thereand said, can I bring a canoe through?
Yeah.
And so we had a fleet of canoes.
And where At the club, or Wecalled it Adventure camp at
(12:29):
that time, I think, wasn't it?
Okay.
So then, we left from the airporton the Canadian side and paddled
our canoes all along the coastline.
All the way to BellevuePark on the Canadian side.
And we started on the Canadianside, went through the lock, and
then it was a great experience.
And so we started looking at mapsand how we could leave from American
(12:49):
side and end up on the American side.
And then we brought some professionalsthat teach kayaking all over the world.
And they happen to bein Lansing, Michigan.
They're called the Power of Water.
Trey, shout out to Trey, right?
They came up trained guides andwent through the trip with us to,
to, see how it would work out.
(13:10):
And they brought some really trainedpeople and just really went through the
whole trip with a fine tooth comb andcame back with their recommendations and,
deemed it as a trip that would be doable.
And it ended up, you went on it today,it was a, and it was pretty incredible.
And I love kayaking, why don't you walk usthrough what the kayak trip would entail?
(13:30):
Like how do we go into the locks?
What are some things that youcan expect when you get in there?
Sure.
We'll get a booking and I'llpersonally reach out and say, weather
looks good, weather looks bad.
We err to the side of safety, Wildamentioned she was a risk manager in the
past and, we wanna keep people safe, yes.
So definitely.
Yeah.
Yes.
As you increase your skills inthe kayaking community, it becomes
(13:53):
a pretty small group of peoplethat talk about the industry.
There's kayaking businessesthat like to pump people
through and they get criticized.
And we're not one of those.
We look out for your safety.
So you know from, and weappreciate that at the start.
I'm saying, this iswhy we use these boats.
This is why you have to wear this.
This is what this is for.
And we go through a little one-on-onebefore we take anybody out.
(14:15):
And when I reach out, I ask if anybody hasany kayaking experience, usually via text.
And they'll feedback.
So this feedback for all
levels.
You don't even have tobe an experience guy.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (14:24):
Yeah, we, I think we prefer that you have some experience.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (14:27):
Some experience.
Okay.
Yeah.
you can see, so we're talkingabout, five miles, of paddling.
We could be out for three hoursdepending on the speed of the paddler.
there's been situations where I've notgone on a trip and, And I look at wind
speed and direction and the current ofthe water and how much the dams that
control the rapids are open, right?
(14:48):
So there's a lot into our decision making.
And ultimately, if we cancel a trip,you should be disappointed you didn't
get to go on the trip, but leastsome flexibility in your schedule.
Because from day to day in the UpperPeninsula or any Michigander knows
the weather can change on the weather.
Yeah.
Yes, definitely.
and it has.
So we launch off the kayaks.
(15:09):
We're out into the water.
Then when we come up to thelocks, what happens next?
The first part of the tour is the launch point.
And we talk about some, localhighlights, historical aspects,
and there's usually some bird life.
And I'm a bird nerd.
So when we first start out, I liketo talk about what's there and
history of the place, and then geta feel for the customer and how
(15:31):
comfortable they are in their kayak.
I'm not gonna take 'em out if they'renot 100% ready to go and comfortable.
Sure.
And then you're right after that,you're cutting across the face
of the locks, the American locks.
Sure.
And there's hazards.
There's boat traffic.
There's You, we don't play chicken withthousand foot freighters, cuz Yeah.
Let's not, you're not gonna win that one.
(15:52):
And then we approach the Canadian lock.
We call ahead, let 'emknow that we're coming.
and their lock system is notso much for commerce where
the American lock system is.
The Canadian lock system is forrecreational craft and people that
wanna travel from the upper riverto the lower river or vice versa.
So then we enter the canal,we let 'em know we're coming.
(16:13):
They give us feedback, say, okay, it'llbe whatever, 15 minutes to fill the lock.
And then we enter it.
And then we deck our boats together,tie off, and we lower 21 feet.
What did it take today, lake?
Eight minutes or something.
Yeah, it was super fast.
Yeah.
Cuz both
you talking about haveboth valves are working.
Yeah.
You're talking about goinginto the actual lock, right?
(16:33):
Yeah.
So they open up the doors, you go inside.
And then we get lowered down and
then, it's a great experience.
You, at one minute you're talkingto the guy on the edge of the lock
wall, and then the next minuteyou, because you're up high.
Yep.
So you can, then you can see themand then within, like you said,
it's, it felt like 10 minutes.
It, you could feel the level.
Yep.
going down inside the kayak
they pulled the plug out of the bathtub Yeah.
(16:54):
So to speak.
Yeah.
So then you're, you dropped downand, the 21 feet, it's 21 feet.
Yep.
It, so you're talking abouttwo different lake levels.
Lake Superior is 21 feet higherthan Lake here on Lake Michigan.
So then when we're on the lower river,you see the gates open up in front
of you and then everybody makes theuniversal sound that angels make, or we
(17:15):
assume they do cuz it happens on everytrip and it remained the case today.
So then we exit the lock andwe're still in, what would
be known as Canadian waters.
And we skirt the Canadian shorelineand then we cut across the base
of the rapids and you can feelthe force of the water when you're
(17:35):
cutting across it and it's just you.
You know how small you are.
And then we cut across there overto, the American side, going across
the lower part of the locks and wego by the, museum ship Valley Camp.
And so after the valley camp, we go infront of what would be the end of the
manmade canal that cuts through the city.
(17:56):
And so you've got a confluence of watersthere, the current that goes downstream
and the current that cuts in there.
And you've got swirling waters.
But this, hydroelectric plant thatwe have in town is very impressive.
It's a quarter milelong, hand cut sandstone.
At one point in time, the largesthydroelectric plant in the world, and
in the backdrop you've got Canada,Sugar Islands and it's a great backdrop.
(18:19):
It ends up being a really nice trip.
One of the things that I wouldlike to explore with you, you
mentioned before about nonprofit.
Why don't you talk to us aboutthis nonprofit, what it is,
what do you hope to do with it?
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (18:32):
Our nonprofit is called, Outhouse Consortium.
So OUT is an acronym forOutdoor Use of Trails.
And the reason why we put it together isbecause we wanted to create trail systems.
Like we have to like, help develop theinfrastructure so that we can really
promote the activities that we're wantingto have, like right in the Sault system.
(18:53):
So we did create a trail behind BuffaloWild Wings in our Ashman Creek area,
which is about 300 acres of land.
Wow.
City owned property.
Yeah.
And we've, we partnered with LittleTraverses Conservancy to help us
secure some land within that areaso we can create trail systems.
(19:14):
Now the trail systems that we are gonnacreate, there are, are, we actually
have already created a couple of,hiking trails and we're looking to
create biking, a biking trail system.
And then we're also looking to createbike trails like within the city.
And then water trail systems withinour, or own our shores so that we
have, people can get out in safelyin different areas of the St.
(19:38):
Mary's river.
We already do guided trips like,around road, Rotary Island.
So Rotary Island Park.
There's a little cluster ofislands that are fantastic.
And one of the islandsis called Voyager Island.
And we actually created, helped tocreate a trail system on Voyager Island.
But you can only get there by Kayak.
(20:00):
Oh, wonderful.
It makes it, it makes it really, yeah.
Awesome and unique.
And yeah, that's, the,getting people moving
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye: The 300 acre project. (20:06):
undefined
It's just in creation.
But if we could paint a picture,we have, a company out of
Houghton called Rock Solid.
And Rock Solid.
We come to find out works allover the nation, and we walked
this property last week, soeverything's really fresh right now.
But they're gonna be doing our conceptualdrawings so that we can better communicate
(20:30):
to the public the potential of this pieceof property that is gonna serve as a hub.
So it's not only gonna berecreation, it's gonna be transit.
So you talk about benefits of trailsystems, and you're going back to talking
about mental health and physical healthand keeping people safe so they're not
on the shoulder of the road and theycan still get from point A to point B.
Beyond that, the recreational aspect is,walking with a guy, John from Rock Solid.
(20:55):
He is thinking that we'll probably endup with, over 10 miles of mountain bike
trail within our city limits Oh, wow.
With our university, asone of the trail heads.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (21:06):
So it's wild to know that you have that topography here
within the city, I would've never known,
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (21:12):
but it's fantastic.
we love, our situation.
We're always trying to celebratethe uniqueness of this town and
what we're, what we want people thatcome visit to, what we want them to
understand is that we've got freighters.
But we are way more than big boats.
We've got a playground up here.
We've got a national forestwith thousands of acres.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (21:34):
We are surrounded in Chippewa County.
We are surrounded byfantastic trail systems.
So it's not just likewithin the our city limit.
We've got like Round IslandPoint, which is just west of us.
that's like a short,like 10, 15 minute drive.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (21:48):
Bay Mills you've got to overlook for, yep.
Monaco, you're overlookingtwo inland lakes.
The, basically the funnel of where theeast end of Lake Superior is and the St.
Mary's river starts and you'relooking at, cliffsides of grow cap
over in Ontario from this overlookthat not many people know about.
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (22:07):
So when we were talking about the,
lantern lit snowshoe hikes Yes.
Earlier.
So we started those to getpeople, to see the trail systems
within the Ashman Creek area.
So to promote that area.
So we actually, we createdour own trail system.
We blazed it.
This summer we'll have a trailheadup so that people can access it
(22:28):
or, A little more readily than justpointing at Yes, go it that way.
But that in and of itself, like the,the land snowshoe hikes are what helped
create awareness for what we have here.
So that gained a lot of momentumto the point where, the city
actually started paying attention.
And now they are huge advocatesand partners with our organization
(22:51):
to help make the Ashman Creekproject come to fruition.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (22:55):
I think, it's just a special group of people.
Our board is very involved, verydynamic, and they understand the
value of their volunteer time.
They know that it's going towardsa project that is A, feasible,
and B, pretty awesome, right?
We're moving forward and we'reseeing that progress in a shorter
(23:16):
timeframe than we expected.
Our purpose of this whole trailsystem and this effort at Ashman
Creek is to connect the community.
You can make a loop around thewhole city, eventually via hiking.
And then hop in a kayak andcomplete the loop on the St.
Mary's river.
And I do wanna circle back cuzyou, this caught my attention
when you said it, the biking part.
(23:39):
So is this something that you're currentlydoing or is it something that's like in
the works you're getting ready to release?
When is that?
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (23:44):
in our business, yeah, we we brought
in, Box Hole bike and ski.
So they are another businesswithin our business.
They have the same mindset as us.
So they actually jumped on our outhouseboard, and we're, they're gonna have
bikes that are gonna be available to rent.
They obviously, right now,as you look around our store,
(24:05):
they're selling their bikes.
Yes, they are.
We have bat bikes.
We have gravel grinders, mountainbikes, road bikes, kid chi, like kid.
Kid bikes.
family friendly.
Everything family friend friendly.
And then we're also going, we're,they're actually in partnership
with us to help create thesebike lanes and these bike routes.
And on top of that, we have thisSault area Arts Center who is looking
(24:27):
at getting these grant fundingsfor like asphalt art where we can
highlight the bicycle lanes and routes,locally so that it keeps people safe.
Because what we're seeing is as you'redriving down the road, you'll see,
vehicles like, like driving in bicyclelane areas and it's just, that's not safe.
we thought, how could we highlightthat these are biking, bicycle lanes.
(24:49):
And so Sault Area Art Center ispartnering with us and we will have
like asphalt art that will highlightour bicycle lanes to keep people
safe.
Ken Wila, I, we could talkabout this all afternoon.
So the question now I got for you isthat if somebody's listening to this
interview, they want to check outwhat it is that you're doing, check
out more about your business, maybethey're planning to trip up here to the
(25:11):
S and they want to connect with you,what's the best place to send them to?
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye: birds Eye Outfitters. (25:15):
undefined
Do com.
Yeah.
Birds happy.
and then we've, there's a websitefor the nonprofit as well.
It's outhouse consortium.org.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Otherwise, send 'em to 1 0 7East Portage Birdseye Outfitters.
Nice.
Nice.
You can't
miss it.
Yeah.
Downtown.
Perfect.
Ken Wila, thank you so much for takingtime to be with us today and talking
(25:35):
about the great things you're doing.
I love that kayak experience.
Ken Hopper, Birds Eye (25:38):
Great.
That is awesome.
Next time
Wilda Hopper, Birds Eye (25:41):
we're gonna do it on a paddle board.
Yes, paddle board.
Definitely have to do that.
For our audience, you can alwaysroll on over to total michigan.com.
Click on Ken and Wilder'sinterview and you'll get all the
links that they mentioned above.
We'll see you next week when we haveanother story of a, ordinary Michiganders
doing some pretty extraordinary things.
We'll see you then.
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