Michigan's Rock and Roll Legends Museum: The Heart of Rock and Roll is still beatin'

Gary Johnson, a lifelong educator and music historian, is the founder of the Michigan Rock and Roll Legends Hall of Fame and the curator of a stunning exhibit at the Historical Museum of Bay County. From teaching Michigan’s first junior high rock history class to curating world-class displays, Gary's passion for rock and roll has inspired generations.

Key Topics Discussed:

• The founding and evolution of the Michigan Rock and Roll Legends Hall of Fame
• Iconic Michigan artists featured in the Hall of Fame, from Motown legends to garage rock icons
• How Gary designed and installed museum exhibits using original posters, memorabilia, and rare artifacts
• The deep connection between cars, music, and Michigan culture
• Behind-the-scenes stories like the infamous “Fake Zombies” scandal and the influence of Frankie Lymon on Motown artists

Exhibit Location:

Historical Museum of Bay County

Address: 321 Washington Avenue, Bay City, MI

(Located next to Bay City’s historic City Hall building)

Website:

www.michiganrockandrolllegends.com

Facebook: 

Michigan Rock and Roll Legends

Museum Website:

Historical Museum of Bay County 

Episode Transcript

Gary Johnson (00:00):
I think it just goes back to when I first became interested in rock and
roll I had the opportunity to see ElvisPresley's first national TV appearance.
What a mind blowing thing that was.
He was so different from the typicalsingers and entertainers you saw on

(00:21):
television during those years that itjust, it really piqued my interest.

Cliff Duvernois (00:28):
Hello everyone and welcome back to Total Michigan where
we interview ordinary Michigandersdoing extraordinary things.
I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.
Some people chase money.
Others chase fame.
But then there's those raresouls who chase something deeper.
And that would be passion.
Not just to keep it to themselves,no, but rather to share it, to light

(00:50):
a spark in someone else, to turn theirlove into a gift for the community.
Few things stir the soulquite like rock and roll.
It's raw, it's real.
And for decades it's been thebackbeat of Michigan's identity.
From Motown the metal.
Garage bands to global icons, our statehas shaped the soundtrack of generations.

(01:11):
Today, that spirit still pulses withevery note, every lyric, and every memory.
As Huey Lewis once sang, the heartof rock and roll is still beating.
And here in the mitten state,it's being kept alive by those
who love it enough to share it.
To help us explore this is Gary Johnson,founder of the Michigan Rock and Roll
Legends Hall of Fame, located in Bay City.

(01:31):
Gary, how are you?

Gary Johnson (01:33):
I'm great, Cliff.
Thank you so much for comingto the museum and doing a show
on, the Hall of Fame exhibit.

Cliff Duvernois (01:40):
So why don't you tell us what is the Michigan Rock
and Roll Legends Hall of Fame?

Gary Johnson (01:46):
it's basically a tribute to, The amazing legacy of, uh, Michigan's rock
and roll artists and their recordings.
right now, as of this year wehave 129 artists and individuals
that are in the Hall of Fame.
And we also have 160 recordings byMichigan artists that are enshrined

(02:14):
as legendary Michigan songs.

Cliff Duvernois (02:17):
Now when we're talking about.
Michigan Rock and roll.
We're talking about legends,we're talking about inductees.
Why don't you give us like a spatteringof names that people would recognize?

Gary Johnson (02:29):
of course we have, a whole bevy of the Motown artists,
that are known around the world.
We're talking.
Smokey Robinson and The Miracles, StevieWonder, Marvin Gaye, the Temptations,
the Four Tops, Mary Wells, Diana Ross,and The Supremes, Edwin Starr, the

(02:49):
Marvelettes, Martha and the Vandellas.
You can go on and onwith the Motown sound.
Uh, I think probably thatmight be the music genre that.
Most people around the worldassociate with Michigan, but on
the rock and roll side of things,of course we have Bob Seger.

Cliff Duvernois (03:09):
Yes.

Gary Johnson (03:09):
Probably the number one rock and roll guy in, the state of Michigan.
Mitch Rider in the DetroitWheels, grand Funk Railroad.
the mc five, the Stooges.
we have the White Stripes, the Amboy,Dukes, the rationals, SRC, all these
bands, Dick Wagner and the Frost.

(03:31):
many of these bands were reallybig in Michigan and were were
regional successes, maybe not somuch internationally, although I am.
I'm constantly amazed, Cliff, on thecontacts that the website, which is
www.michiganrockandrolllegends.com,

(03:52):
the visitors that we get all overthe world that are interested
in the history of Michigan rockand roll, it's mind blowing.

Cliff Duvernois (04:00):
It is.
And I definitely wanna make surewe take a moment to explore that.
But before we do, Gary,where are you from?
Where did you grow up?
I was born and I grew upin Bay City, Michigan.
Nice.
Now, did you spend allof your life in Bay City?
Have you traveled?
Did you go anywhere different?

Gary Johnson (04:18):
My wife Lynn and I currently live in Essex Valley,
which is right next door to Bay City.
I attended college, undergraduateat Central Michigan University.
Got my master's degree from MichiganState University in East Lansing.
I've been an educator.
All my life.
I taught, for 35 years, primarily atthe junior high level, and most of

(04:41):
those at Kramer Junior High Schoolin Essex v and that's where I, I
developed a, a rock and roll historyclass for junior high students,
which I believe is the first one.
It's a multimedia rockand roll history class.
I think it's the first one thatwas ever done at that level in
Michigan, following my retirement.

(05:04):
I spent 19 years teaching rock androll history classes or offering
rock and roll history classes throughthe OSHA Lifelong Learning Institute
at Saginaw Valley State College.
And, well, it's now SaginawValley State University.
since we spent a great deal of time inNew Jersey, I have often, I, I have also

(05:27):
offered a number of rock and roll classes.
At, Rutgers University Ollie Programand I had the opportunity of doing
one on, uh, Bruce Springsteen.
Okay.
In his hometown ofFreehold, New Jersey, which

Cliff Duvernois (05:42):
was pretty cool.
just to take a step back here,what was it about education that
attracted you to that field?

Gary Johnson (05:49):
well, I always liked y oung people, and I think that's
really important to be a teacher,especially at the lower levels.
I've always been interested in learningthings, so it seemed like an ideal match.
I, I was always interested in, athleticsand, and participated in sports on
many different levels over the years.

(06:09):
That gave me an opportunity to coachat the junior high level, which I
did for a number of years as well.
I guess that's about it.
It's been great.
I mean, my wife was also a teacher, we hadvacations off together and summer breaks.
Most of the time we were takingclasses at the university,
but we could do that together,

Cliff Duvernois (06:29):
you know, it was fun.
Yeah, it was great.
And then I guess the next questionis, is, and it almost seems to be
redundant, but I wanna explore thisa little bit more, because you really
have wrapped your passion into music.
I love music as well.
You will not see anything inmy house that looks like this.
So what was it that really piquedyour interest in music To go

(06:51):
about developing a class andcourse in, in multimedia and Yes.

Gary Johnson (06:57):
I think it just goes back to when I first became interested
in rock and roll this was when I wasnine years old I would've been the
early winter of 1956 and just by chanceI had the opportunity to see Elvis
Presley's first national TV appearance.

(07:19):
And Cliff, I can't tell youthere's a piece of history.
What a mind blowing thing that was.
He was so different from the typicalsingers and entertainers you saw on
television during those years that itjust, it really piqued my interest.
And from that point on, I, I went out andI, I'm sure probably my parents bought

(07:44):
me, my first Elvis Presley records.
They were at.
78s.,
Only had this little victrola,with a big steel spike needle.
Yep.
And that's when I, played myfirst rock and roll records.
And from that point on, uh, thatjust opened the door to a bunch
of other artists during that time,like Chuck Berry, Little Richard,

(08:07):
Jerry Lee Lewis, Buddy Holly and theCrickets, Ricky Nelson, Fatz Domino.
I mean, it was just like, holy cow.
it was just, it justopened up this whole world.
Yeah.
All of a sudden it kinda went fromblack and white to technicolor you
know, when it comes down to music.
Yeah.
just from that point on,it was kind of my thing.
I grew up in a familywhere no one played music.

(08:30):
And all my friends were kind of like me.
They were interested in playing baseballand basketball and football and so on.
So I.
rock and roll music and collectingrecords was kind of my thing.
And it was all the way through, collegeand, you know, I kinda went from 70 eights
to my parents buying me my first 45.

(08:52):
Yeah.
record player.
And then having that, throughouthigh school and then switching to.
Albums rather than 40 fives and concontinued collecting music in the form
of albums and then switching again whenCDs came in and took over from, vinyl

(09:13):
recordings and, till today where actuallyI belonged to a streaming service.
And so I now my phone is like the world's.
biggest or one of the world's biggestrecord collections just filled with
playlists of people I like to listen to.
it just never goes away.
It's a constant

Cliff Duvernois (09:32):
source of enjoyment for me.
Certainly.
Now, when you're teaching theseclasses right, and you're, you're
exposing essentially all these youngminds, to music, what was that like?
Watching their reaction when you'repulling out that vinyl album, putting
it down and saying, you know, here's,this song from Smokey Robinson.
Yeah.

(09:52):
let's listen to it.

Gary Johnson (09:53):
It's unusual because, you know, growing up with
it, you think everybody knows,the names of artists and so on.
Yeah.
And they don't, you know, it's just like,wow, you're, you're opening a whole new
page and I can never, I'll never forget.
Playing them.
Frankie Val in the Four Seasons, whichwas one of the groups that I covered in

(10:14):
the history of rock and roll, and havingthem listen to Frankie Val's vocals and
actually the kids broke out laughing.
Yeah.
In class.
it was so unusual.
That sound was such a big soundwhen Lynn and I were in high school,
Guys singing in falsetto and so on.
but it was pretty foreign to thekids that I had in my music history

(10:35):
class at, Kramer Junior High School.
That's wonderful.
Now

Cliff Duvernois (10:40):
you've retired.
I.
Yes.
Okay.
And, well, I retired.
Retired, but, well, you'reretired from teaching.
Yeah, from, well even,well, I'm still doing that.
You know, it never goes away.
Let's fast forward now to early 2020s.
All of a sudden, for some reasonor another, you are starting
to put collections on display.

(11:02):
For people.
Right.
You were talking about, was it Scotty's?

Gary Johnson (11:05):
Well, it started out, at a classic car company called the
Bay City Motor Company, and I hadstarted the, I had started the webpage
and I thought, there it would be niceif there was some sort of physical
presence, so they sold classic cars.
So I went to their dealership.
And explored the idea, the relationshipbetween cars and rock and roll,

(11:29):
which, which is evident very big,especially during rock and roll's
first decade, and they had a showroom.
And I said, you want to giveme the walls to the showroom.
I'll put pictures and album covers anda little bit of memorabilia up here
and you can use that, and you put a,a Corvette sitting in the showroom.

(11:51):
You got all this rockand roll stuff around it.
It made for a real nice match.
Yeah.
So that went on for probably about 13years until they went out of business.
that's when.
I was given the opportunity ofmoving that display to Scotty
Sandbar, which is a music venueon the middle ground in Bay City.
probably the best, music venue we havein Bay City in terms of having a nice

(12:16):
stage and a dance floor and so on.
And Scotty says Liveentertainment every weekend there.
So it's really a nice match there,actually better than the car company.
So that's still

Cliff Duvernois (12:28):
going right now.
You made a comment before, and I wannamake sure we go back and hit on it.
You were talking about how it was ona website, so were you taking these
collectibles that you had, taking picturesof them, putting them online, talking
to 'em, because you made a referencebefore at the beginning of the interview
about people from around the world.
finding your website.

Gary Johnson (12:47):
Yeah, it was, primarily the website would've been the biographies
of all the artists that are Oh, okay.
The Hall of Fame.
So if you come here and you lookat a picture of Sonny Bono or of,
Mary Wells or whoever it might be,you could go to the website and.
Read their biography.
It also, it got me interested indigging into rock and roll stories.

(13:13):
mostly in Bay City, but alsoaround Michigan as well.
And I came up with some pretty interestingstuff that I'm very proud of, you know?
Right.
For example, one, uh, that Iworked very closely with a, writer.
Who at that time was based in New York.
His name was Daniel Ralston on, uh,an intriguing story that came out

(13:36):
of Bay City called The Fake Zombies.
And this was a promoter who had a companycalled, Delta Promotions in Bay City
who came up with the idea of putting.
Imposter groups out to playconcerts as some very well

(13:57):
known bands that had broken up.
Okay, like the zombies from England,like the animals from England.
And he even tried it with a groupcalled The Archies, which was really
a studio band portraying the, thefigures from the Archie comics.
And, uh, just an, a totally fantasticstory, that was turned into actually an

(14:19):
eight part podcast by Daniel Ralston thatwas just, on iHeartRadio this past year.

Cliff Duvernois (14:27):
And now at some point, because you talked before about you
having this small display, you were askedabout potentially having an exhibit here
at the historical museum in Bay City.
Right.
Talk to us about that.

Gary Johnson (14:41):
It was pretty scary.
I had never really curatedanything before, and now you're
talking about a very large space.
So that's going to involve, not only thepictures of the inductees and the list
of the songs, which really doesn't takeup all that much space, but you have

(15:02):
to find some other things that would beinteresting enough for people coming to
the museum to capture their attention.
So that started, quite a search for thingsour centerpiece right here is the Frankie,
the original Frankie Lyman tombstone.
As well as, contacting collectorsand poster artists and, also,

(15:24):
painters and so on that could.
Come up with something thatwould be intriguing for people
that are visiting the museum.
It took a lot of work,I'll tell you, Cliff.
But it was, it was very much acollaboration and I very much enjoyed
working with the people in the galleriesthat participated in doing the framing,

(15:45):
the sign companies that designed all thegreat signage that we have in the Hall of
fame, the individual artists and so on.
And also, The poster artistslike, Dennis Warren, who we talked
about who contributed so manyof his works here to the museum.
It was fun.
It was a lot of work anda very big challenge.
I think the biggest challengeI ever undertook in my life.

Cliff Duvernois (16:08):
For our audience, we're gonna take a quick
break and thank our sponsors.
When we come back.
Uh, Gary's gonna walk us througha couple of those challenges.
What you can expect when you come hereand see the rock and roll exhibit, and
also how you can find this great place.
Once again, my name is Cliffwith this with Botto, Michigan.
I'm talking to Gary Johnson, who isthe founder of the Michigan Rock and
Roll Legends, Hall of Fame, as well asthe curator of this fantastic exhibit.

(16:30):
And we will see you after the break.
Are you enjoying this episode?
Well, I can tell youthere's a lot more to come.
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(16:51):
Just go over to TotalMichigan.
com, enter your email address today.
Hello everyone.
Welcome back to Total Michigan, wherewe interview ordinary Michiganders
doing some pretty extraordinary things.
I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.
Today we're talking with GaryJohnson, the founder of the Michigan
Rock and Roll Legends Hall of Fame.
We are sitting in this beautiful exhibit.

(17:13):
I can tell you that the volume of work.
That has must have gone intothis and setting this up.
Display.
I mean, we're talking multiplelevels that are in this building.
It's absolutely extraordinary.
It's absolutely beautiful.
Before the break, you made a commentabout like some of the challenges
that you had to go through.
I'd like to explore some of thosechallenges of putting this together.

Gary Johnson (17:35):
One of them obviously is framing everything.
So we have some veryvaluable posters here.
in order to display them, they hadto be framed and, They also had to
be attached to the wall in a certainway so that they were museums.
Safe that we can't have somebodyjust going and lifting one of these

(17:57):
things and heading out the door.
So that took a lot of timeand a lot of planning.
Exactly, how we would, display the postersin an attractive way and, you know, it was
quite a bit of work involved and gettingthe frames done and up on the walls.
so that was a big challenge.
also, the guitars that we have here.

(18:19):
Were loaned to us by concertpromoter, Chad Cunningham.
Chad, and the foresight, I guess,to purchase a guitar every time.
One of these big name acts likethe Beach Boys or, uh, Alice
Cooper, you know, various peoplethat would come, and perform and
have them autograph the guitars.

(18:40):
Chad had these displayed in hisoffices at Prime Brothers Furniture
and he was kind enough to loanus these to put up on the walls.
So again, thinking about how couldwe display these things safely and
securely on the walls, in the museum.
And it's just you got these barewalls and you're trying to visualize

(19:02):
how are we gonna display thesethings in an attractive way, for
the patrons that come to the museum.
Yet another challenge.
we had the original cement blocksthat had the hand prints and the.
the autographs of the Bay CityRollers when they came to Bay City
in 1977, and how do we display these?

(19:27):
Right?
And, Miles Ruski of Ruski signscame up with that kind of unique
idea of displaying them on thewall, that we have in the hallway.
Miles also came up with the idea ofthe signs, that, Explain the story of
the original Frankie Lyman tombstone.
We have a tombstone, but just tohave a tombstone sitting there

(19:50):
in the middle of the room withouttelling the story right, which is
absolutely one of the most fabulous.
And interesting rock androll stories of all time.
you know, we had to comeup with a way of doing it.
So we, miles came up with a certainkind of design for the signs that looked
like wings almost, where we could tellFrankie's story as well as the story of

(20:13):
the trial and the tombstone and the greatinfluence that Frankie Lyman and the
teenagers had on Motown, Motown artists.
Very, very much.
I.
Like Smokey Robinson,Diana Ross, and so on.
Very influenced by the fact that youhave this teenage boy singing songs.

(20:33):
And if you look at the Jackson five,the way they originally came out in
1969, in 1970, they are like a carboncopy of Frankie Lyman and the teenagers.
You had Michael, the little tyke witha great voice and all the dance moves
just like Frankie Lyman was with the.

(20:53):
Majors.
Yeah.
It just, uh, you know, it wasgreat stuff and it's singular.
All that, you know, is, is part and parcel

Cliff Duvernois (21:00):
of, putting something like this together.
Sure.
Because one of the things thatI really wanna highlight as I'm
sitting here, because this feelsmore like modern pop culture art.
Than anything, but just to highlightthe fact these are original posters.
Yes.
These are not something that you foundonline and printed out in nice color.

(21:23):
These are like, and some of theseposters in here I could imagine
are probably 60, 70 years old.
Yeah.
That and

Gary Johnson (21:30):
you know, we came by these in, in interesting ways.
actually the.
Iggy and the Stooges posterthat is, in the, stairwell.
And this was a poster that was putout, by Electra Records when they
released their first album in 1969.
a woman in California had that posterthat had been rolled up in her closet

(21:56):
for, well, would've been over 50 years.
She heard about what we were doing.
Actually mailed me that poster.
Oh wow.
And we were able to, with the skill ofre Golden and Golden Gallery, to take
most of the wrinkles out of that posterand frame it and put it up on the wall.

(22:19):
That posters probably were over $2,000.
just to give you an idea of what we'vegot, and, you know, we have several
posters autographed by Carl Lundgren,another, Michigan Rock and Roll Legends
Hall of Fame, inductee poster artist.
we've got autograph posters byhim, by Gary Grimshaw as well.

(22:41):
you know, some pretty good stuff here.

Cliff Duvernois (22:43):
It is.
And this, this really highlights apocket of time where when artists would
come out with an album, number one.
The album itself was a work of art.
Yes.
Right.
It, it wasn't just a pictureof the band sitting there.
That seems to be like every albumout today is just a picture of, of
a singer or the band, but a lot ofthe times it was its own art and it

(23:04):
would come with things like posters,

Gary Johnson (23:06):
yeah.

Cliff Duvernois (23:07):
Et cetera, that you could hang on your wall.
Yes.
That these people, for some reasonor another kept very safe and secure,
and now we get to enjoy it today.

Gary Johnson (23:15):
Yes.
And you know, and that's one of the,the things I was saddest about, I guess,
when vinyl albums originally were, I.
Kind of taken over by the CDis the loss of the album art.
Now albums are coming back,but it's not quite the same.
Right.
And they don't sell enough, I think,to really spend a great deal of

(23:38):
money on the album art anymore.
But, yeah, that, that'spretty fascinating.
The album art and thephotography, that was part of it.
And of course, as I showed you earlier,we had a Bay City native, Tom Burt.
A friend of mine who sadly passedaway probably 20 some years ago,
but Tom, did a lot of album covers.

(23:59):
He, he was a.
A man who made his fortune shootingphotographs of cars in those glossy
books that would be in the dealerships.
But his passion was music and he almost byaccident, got into shooting album covers
for people like Ringo Starr and Bob SegerNeil Diamond, Gordon Lightfoot, It's

(24:22):
pretty amazing what he did over the years.

Cliff Duvernois (24:25):
Gary, if somebody is listening to this, they
wanna come and check this out.
'cause this is, this is ever growing.
This is, this is organic and I'm lovingthis, but they wanna come check this out.
Where can they find you?
How can they find you?

Gary Johnson (24:38):
Well, the museum, the Historical Museum of Bay County is
located at 3 21 Washington Avenue, rightnext to Bay City's Missi most historic
building, the city hall building.
And the, by the way, the museum doesoffer tours of City Hall, which is
pretty fascinating in its own right.

(24:58):
the museum has its own website.
Just Historical Museum of Bay Countyalso, I have a great deal of information,
photographs, videos, what have you aboutMichigan Rock and Roll and the museum at
my website at www dot Michigan Rock androle legends spelled out completely com.

Cliff Duvernois (25:23):
Uh, Gary, thank you so much for taking
time to chat with us today.
Really do appreciate it.

Gary Johnson (25:27):
Well, thank you Cliff.
It was so great meeting you andI'm so happy that, uh, Total
Michigan was interested enough inthe museum and the display to have
you come here and talk with me.

Cliff Duvernois (25:37):
No, this is, this completely.
Blew away my expectations whenI walked through the door.
So it's a credit to what youand your team have done here.
Well, thank you very much.
We always love to hear stuff like that.
For our audience, you can alwaysroll in over to total michigan.com
and click on Gary's interview and, uh,get the links, that he mentioned above.
We will see you next time when wetalk to another Michigander, doing
some pretty extraordinary things.

(25:59):
We'll see you then.