November 13, 2024 • 52 mins
Is Trevor Lawrence's injury the pivotal point that could redefine the Jacksonville Jaguars' season? Join us as we dissect the disappointing 12-7 loss to the Minnesota Vikings and navigate through the storm of rumors and frustrations hovering over the Jaguars. We scrutinize Trevor Lawrence's critical role and his absence, which left glaring holes in the offense, drawing inevitable parallels with other quarterbacks like Mac Jones. The episode takes a deep dive into Doug Pederson's controversial media moments and the defensive silver linings that emerged amidst the chaos.
Frustration is brewing in Jacksonville, and we're putting the spotlight on the leadership decisions that are igniting fan discontent. With General Manager Trent Baalke and Head Coach Doug Pederson under fire, we examine their impact on the team’s trajectory and fan engagement. As the Jaguars face off with the Detroit Lions, we ponder the implications of this game on future leadership decisions, including potential changes that could reshape the team’s front office and coaching staff. The stark contrast between the Jaguars' approach and the proactive strategies of the Chicago Bears highlights the need for strategic shifts in Jacksonville.
Explore with us the high-stakes world of NFL coaching opportunities, as we consider which teams might hold the most allure for aspiring head coaches—could Jacksonville’s talent pool offer a brighter future, or do the Chicago Bears present a more enticing challenge? We wrap up with a look ahead at the potential shake-ups in Jaguars leadership post-Lions game, contemplating whether swift changes could steer the franchise back on course. Through it all, we remain committed to bringing you the insights and analysis that matter most to Jaguars fans.
James Johnson and Phil Barrera bring you the best and most up to date Jacksonville Jaguars news. "Touchdown Jaguars!" is a tribute to the prospective ownership group "Touchdown Jacksonville!" In 1991, the NFL announced plans to add two expansion teams and "Touchdown Jacksonville!" announced its bid for a team, and Jacksonville was ultimately chosen as one of five finalists. In November 1993, the NFL owners voted 26–2 in favor of awarding the 30th franchise to Jacksonville. James and Phil have been fans of the franchise ever since and have had the honor (and sometimes dishonor) of covering the team professionally since 2017. The rest as they say, is history.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast.
Here are your hosts, jamesJohnson and Phil Smith.
Hey everyone, welcome back tothe Touchdown Jaguars podcast.
I am your co-host, phil Smith,and joining us, as always, is
(00:39):
your other co-host, jamesJohnson and Jay.
Here we are, episode 102 of theTouchdown Jaguars podcast, and
even though we are in our nextset of 100 episodes,
unfortunately the result for theJacksonville Jaguars has not
changed.
So, despite the loss anddespite things continuing to
just spiral out of control forthis team, it is good to be back
(01:01):
here with you, jay, as wemissed last week together
because I was doing sometraveling.
I was out in Dallas with myfamily and came home to the
Jaguars not doing a whole lotright, they can't move the ball
down the field.
Trevor Lawrence is hurt andthere's all these rumors
(01:21):
swirling about his camp andwhat's going on over there, and
there's all these rumorsswirling about his camp and
what's going on over there.
Doug Peterson thinks that he'sbetter than everybody in that
media room, brett Martineauincluded, and you know it's just
not getting any better and wegot to wonder how much worse
it's going to get before it doesget better.
So we are going to talk aboutsome of those things here in
(01:42):
today's episode we are alsogoing to, you know we'll
probably briefly discuss thegame, but more so just talk
about the state of the team.
We saw Austin Lane certainlyand understandably upset about
how Doug Peterson is respondingto Brenton Martin.
No, obviously they're theirco-hosts, their buddies and just
the fan base in general beingpretty sick of it.
(02:04):
So we're going to break allthat down here today in episode
102.
But you know, first andforemost, like I said, good to
be back here with you recordingthis evening.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, man, we're just counting down the days of, you
know, getting that notificationthat Doug Peterson is gone,
right, kind of like we werecounting down the days for Urban
Meyer on, right, kind of likewe were counting down the days
for Urban Meyer, but with Urban,I guess we didn't have a lot of
time to prepare for it, becausethe Josh Lambeau stuff kind of
came out of nowhere.
And then that's when werealized like, oh, this is a
(02:34):
possibility, right.
But I digress from my point.
Man, yeah, man can't wait todiscuss and break down the game
which was, you know it was aloss, but at least it was like
entertaining.
You know what I'm saying.
I think the last game before itwas pretty entertaining too
which I did the solo on.
So it wasn't a lot of scoringnecessarily, but it was
(02:57):
entertaining from a perspectiveof the defense at least showed
up, right, they, they hadmultiple picks from the
secondary.
So, um, you know, that'ssomething we haven't seen.
You know, this team hasn't beenable to like, really generate
picks in this ryan nielsendefense, and that was kind of a
thing with when he was with thefalcons too.
(03:18):
So, um, I think that's one ofthe more interesting takes from
it, uh, but nonetheless, youknow there's no moral victories
in football, but some, certainlysome interesting things to talk
about in terms of the game and,as you said, you know just some
of the rumblings and rumors.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, I mean it was entertaining in the sense that
you know they were in the gamelike they had a chance to win at
the end.
But I'll be honest with you,like just going through and
watching the condensed versionof the game, like I was
struggling.
I had to do it in two differentsittings because I was kind of
like falling asleep.
But you know that's, that iswhat it is, especially watching
(03:58):
Mac Jones play quarterback andSam Darnold.
Reverting to who Sam Darnoldmost likely is, I know people
were kind of like making a bigdeal about Doug Peterson being
asked like what do you think waslike key to the turnaround of
Sam Darnold?
And he said Justin Jefferson.
And listen, Justin Jeffersoncould make either one of us look
good at quarterback.
(04:19):
So you know, even though we'repretty frustrated with Doug, he
wasn't necessarily wrong, Right?
You know Jacksonville has beenpretty frustrated with Doug.
He wasn't necessarily wrong,right?
You know Jacksonville has beenin some of these games, just
like last week's game you talkedabout with Philly.
They had a chance to win thatgame.
They certainly could have wonthis one and, you know, chalk it
up to another instance wherethey just could not wrap things
up this past Sunday.
(04:39):
But we're going to dive intoall of that here in just a
moment.
I want to welcome in any brandnew and returning listeners to
the Touchdown Jaguars podcast,episode 102.
For those of you that are new,make sure you check the Linktree
link in the show notes of thisepisode.
You'll find everything you needas far as social media pages,
the website touchdownjaguarscom,as well as our promo code,
(05:00):
Touchdown Jaguars, so you cansave yourself $20 on your first
purchase with SeatGeek.
So, with all that being said,Jay, let's go ahead and just
dive right in.
We will start with the game, asthe Jaguars fell to the
Minnesota Vikings 12-7.
And that is not a baseballscore, that is a football score.
Four field goals for theMinnesota Vikings from a kicker
(05:21):
in, John Parker Romo, who Ibelieve had just been added to
the team the previous week.
I mean, they mentioned itenough on the damn telecast,
didn't they, that he had justwon a kicking competition, but
he ended up being the bigdifference for the Minnesota
Vikings.
The Jaguars held a lead, I wouldsay, for a good portion of this
(05:43):
game, into the fourth quarter,if I recall correctly right, Jay
, where they were up either 7-3or 7-6.
But it was just not a fun gameto watch from an offensive
standpoint, but we did see thedefense doing a lot of swarming.
You know, Justin Jefferson waspretty much held in check 5 for
48.
(06:03):
And Sam Darnold, like wealluded to, had a really rough
day 24 of 38, threeinterceptions.
Probably should have had four,but he certainly did not look
good.
Aaron Jones had a pretty decentday on the run 17 carries for 88
yards, but the sole touchdownwas scored on a Mack Jones
(06:24):
quarterback sneak down there atthe one.
So other than that, as far asoffense goes, like I said, not
really a whole lot to write homeabout, but we did see some
encouraging things defensively,Although I don't know how
encouraging things can really bewhen your team is two and eight
Right can really be when yourteam is two and eight right.
(06:45):
So, um, yeah, just kind of walkus through it, because you just
recently finished, uh, watchingthe condensed version as well.
What did you see?
What did you like?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
what didn't you like as far as the jaguars most
recent loss yeah, so well, firstand foremost, man, I think one
thing we need to get out of theway here let's kill the Matt
Jones noise, right, because alot of people were trying to,
you know, hype him up to besomebody who the Patriots
(07:16):
basically failed and you knowthey did, I'll admit that and
that he would just latch on withanother team and, you know,
take off, and a lot of peoplethought that would be the
Jacksonville Jaguars.
I mean, when, looking at thegame he was what?
14 to 22 for 111 yards.
It wasn't really impressive.
Had a couple of picks which youknow.
(07:36):
One of those picks was a playthat sparked the controversy of
Brent Martineau's question thatDoug, you know, gave him a
snooty answer on.
So we'll, I guess we'llprobably talk about that later
down the road.
But, yeah, let's let's kill theMac Jones noise because, as we
saw, a lot of people now oweTrevor Lawrence an apology and
(07:59):
it's clear as day that I thinksomebody put it might have been
John Shipley.
Um, I might, if I can recall.
I might be misquoting him, butsomebody said this.
But it's kind of clear thatTrevor Lawrence has kind of been
elevating the offense andthat's the biggest thing that
I'm happy about with this gameis that people saw and
(08:23):
especially the national analystssaw just how lethargic and just
how ineffective this offense iswithout Trevor Lawrence right,
and it also presented aopportunity for us not to hear a
lot of Trevor Lawrence, um, Iguess, uh hatred and and takes
from the national media as wellfor how he performed throughout
(08:47):
the week because obviously hedidn't play, or how he performed
on Sunday because obviously hedid not play.
So I think that's a bigtakeaway to take out of this is
that I feel like Trevor Lawrence, you know, has been carrying
this team a little bit nowlooking at how Matt Jones was
able to perform, bit now lookingat how Matt Jones was able to
(09:07):
perform, and I just hope he sitsfor the rest of the year at
this point and just protectshimself.
We don't know how severe theinjury is, but you know, the
further along we got throughoutthe weekend, you know it went
from kind of maybe he'll needsurgery, then it went to kind of
you know, surgery is underconsideration type of thing.
So we'll have to monitor thatheading forward.
(09:29):
And then, in terms of the restof the game, I think, just to
keep it brief, what it came downto is, while we were and I was
the person that said this thatyou know like the exciting part
of it was the defense gettingall the picks that they did
right.
But I think what ultimatelyhurt them and this game, make no
(09:53):
mistake about it, does not fallon the defense, but I think
what ultimately hurt them interms of when you look at it
from the defensive side since Ialready spent a lot of time
speaking on Mac Jones and theoffensive side is the center of
the field was open a lot.
And you know there were timeswhere, obviously, sam Darnold
should have come away out ofthis game with, you know, 24
(10:14):
points, 28 points, somethinglike that, but he would utilize
the middle of the field well andthen get to the end zone and
throw a pick or something crazyhappens.
So they killed us in the middleof the field.
I'll say that your guy, joshOliver, that you've been hyping
up for many, many years, tjHawkinson, doing his thing in
the middle, justin Jefferson,they held him in check for only
(10:38):
what?
Five catches for 48 yards, butI think he had a few in the
middle, if I can recall as welltoo.
So the middle of the defensewas kind of victimized.
And also, too, while Aaron Jonesdidn't get a lot of carries
right field, it felt like everytime that man touched the ball
he was getting five yards ormore.
I mean, well, his average saysthat all he had 5.2 yards on the
(11:01):
day, but every time he touchedthe ball was an easy five, six,
seven yards, and not just him.
It felt like it was that wayfor um, the other running backs
as well, and sam donald.
When sam donald took off fromwithin the pocket, he got an
easy five, six, seven yards.
So I think when you look at the12 points that the vikers were
(11:23):
to get, that's what it boils nowto is the Jaguar struggle in
the passing game in the middleof the field and also just Aaron
Jones getting yards and chunks,although you know he kind of it
looks like he had a quiet day,but when he took it, when he did
touch the ball, he was prettyeffective with it.
And you know, when you got anoffense that only put up seven
(11:46):
points, that's all you need.
You know, even with the threepicks that Sam Darnold threw.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that, because the
person that did come outvictorious this weekend is
Trevor Lawrence, right, I mean,he has been making this offense
look better than it actually isand has been carrying this team
for essentially as long as wecan remember.
I mean, all the evidence wasthere, right, last season when
(12:15):
he went down with the injury,tries to play through it, and
then the team just isn't thesame, right?
I mean, we're a year removedfrom talking about the Jaguars
having the number one seed inthe AFC, and that wasn't on
accident, like Trevor wascooking.
And, yes, they were gettingcarved up by the backup
quarterback for the CincinnatiBengals, but that wasn't Trev's
(12:37):
fault.
He was going, you know, shotfor shot with Cincinnati the
name of that QB is escaping meright now, but it's not a
coincidence that when he wentdown, then the team went down.
As Trevor goes, they go.
One thing that's reallyfrustrating is something that
happened elsewhere in the leaguetoday.
(12:59):
I'm recording this on November12th, the evening of November
12th, and the Chicago Bearsfired their offensive
coordinator today.
Right, they stepped away fromShane Waldron and they are in a
somewhat similar position thanus as us.
Right, they bring in thisgenerational quarterback, who
(13:21):
some people say is agenerational quarterback.
You and I have obviously alwaysfelt a little indifferent
towards Caleb Williams, butthat's beside the point.
But they recognize that ShaneWaldron, that their offensive
coordinator, is bad for thedevelopment of their quarterback
.
Right, they were four and two,you know, one of those wins
(13:43):
against us, unfortunately.
But I think since then they'velost three straight and they
also have a you know, messysituation when it comes to their
head coach.
That guy's probably not going tobe there going forward.
But regardless, the Bearsidentified and understood that
their current situation atoffensive coordinator was not
(14:06):
good enough and actually couldbe hurting the development of
their star hopefully starquarterback and franchise and
future franchise.
Meanwhile you have dougpeterson over here pushing Press
Taylor around in a stroller andbringing him wherever he goes
(14:29):
and standing by this person andultimately it's going to cost
him another NFL job.
And he's in the press boxtalking to somebody who is
esteemed and who has doneeverything by the book and who
is just beloved by essentiallyeverybody in Brent Martin know
and he's talking down to himbecause he fell backwards into a
(14:49):
Super Bowl, because he had ageneral manager that carried and
called him all the way thereand Nick Foles won on a
generational run.
So even though the ChicagoBears like we kind of touched on
this a couple weeks ago, right,jay, we said would you rather
be an organization that's alwaysin the spotlight, which a big
market like Chicago is going tobe, or Jacksonville?
(15:10):
Even though the Bears are amess, at least they're doing
something that will hopefully befor the betterment of their
quarterback.
And you also touched on this acouple weeks ago as well.
If a general manager foundthemselves once again picking
first overall for the third timein five years in dallas, in la,
(15:34):
in baltimore, in new york, thepeople at espn and nfl network
would be throwing things at thewall, wondering how somebody
like that still has a job.
So Trambolke is also benefitingfrom Jacksonville being in a
small market because he gets tohide behind his mistakes year
(15:57):
after year after year after yearand somehow convince the Khans
that he is doing a good job.
Convince the Khans that he isdoing a good job.
So I hope that Shad Khan's youknow yacht, super yacht, being
in the in the St John's river isa precursor to both of them
being shown the door.
We don't ever want to campaignfor people losing their job,
(16:19):
losing their livelihood, butwhen you're effectively just
making things worse and going tohave this attitude, why do I
want you part of my organization?
I hope, I hope shot and TonyKhan are having those
conversations and seeing what isbeing said, I bet those two
have great respect for BrentMartino.
I bet they wouldn't talk to himlike that.
(16:39):
So I know I I stepped away fromtalking about the actual game,
but like, like, this is just sofrustrating.
And again, the game is boringanyway, so who cares?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
but seeing what the Bears did today frustrated me
even more about what we're notdoing here yeah, yeah, you
mentioned something there withyou know them, moving on from
Shane Waldron, that I want tokind of hit on too.
This is just, you know me beinga Bulldog fan, but Thomas Brown
will be the interim OCreplacing him.
(17:13):
So go Dogs right there.
So Thomas Brown will actuallyget a shot, and I think Thomas
Brown used to be an offensivecoordinator at one point in time
for the Panthers, like a yearor two ago.
He'll get a shot at, you know,helping maybe Caleb Williams get
things right over there.
And I know this is a Jaguarspodcast, but you know you did
(17:34):
mention the Shane Waldron thingand yeah, man, like everybody
already heard my take on thewhole situation with you know
what he said to the, not justBrent, but just to the media in
general.
And it is because you know it'sthe and I think T Witt kind of
(17:54):
said this and he said itperfectly Like he's probably
protecting his son at this point, because how Press Taylor looks
is a indictment on him as a,you know, as ultimately the guy
that has been his mentor.
So you know, I'm not sayingthat makes it right.
You know his attitude towardsthe media or what have you, but
(18:17):
I guess, like the way we shouldlook at it.
Is somebody kind of, as yousaid, feel coddling or whatever
the case may be his son, butstill, I mean, at the end of the
day, as I said in my tweet,first and foremost, you're a
grown man and you need to knowhow to talk to the other grown
people, first and foremost.
Secondly, brent Martin, though,to my knowledge and we've been
(18:42):
in the media room multiple timesat this point has always been
respectful, right, and hasalways not only done, been super
respectful, but you know, he,he and the rest of the media, to
my to my knowledge, again, wehaven't been in there like all
year, every year, but, um,they're, they've been very
(19:03):
respectful of coaches,boundaries and what have you,
and it's not like a media room,and that's the thing that that
irks me.
We're not talking about a lalike media room, right.
We're not talking about aphiladelphia like media room
where the writers and you knowthe beat writers and reporters
can get a little bit too pushyand like skip bayless isn't
(19:25):
standing outside of the lockerroom.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
You know what I mean.
Like we're talking about.
We're talking about, likestand-up people.
We're talking about, you know,mia, we're talking about john
shipley, uh, brent, you know,we're talking about all these
people who are good people andhe's talking to them like that.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Right, demetrius, so on and so forth.
It's not in a prime example ofthis.
It's not like the Joel and Bsituation, where a beat report
is mentioned in Joel and B's youknow people that have passed on
from his family which is reallyjust utterly just ridiculous.
Why would you do that?
First and foremost and you knowyou can't you can absolutely
(20:05):
understand where Joel and Bwould be upset with.
That is why I brought that up.
It's not anything like thatwhere it's a super messy media
room.
For the most part, fromeverything we've seen in the
encounters we've been in there,everybody was welcoming and, you
know, nobody really reallypushes the coaches like that.
And, as a matter of fact, foryears and years the big thing
(20:26):
has been, at least from thefans' perspective, is like you
guys didn't drill the coachenough.
You guys didn't drill Shaq Khanenough.
You guys didn't drill TrentBaalke enough when they took the
podium and the few times thatthey do take the podium, you
guys didn't ask the hard hittingquestions like you should.
So for Doug to kind of like youknow, lash out at the media
(20:48):
room in general, like that kindof struck a chord with me, as
you're also on Twitter and asyou said, you mentioned the same
thing that I mentioned.
Man, like you know, now he'strying to act like you know what
don't stink because hebasically, you know he took
advantage of a run where HowieRoseman drafted very well.
(21:09):
And now we're starting to seeand I was including me in this I
was fooled by what we saw overin Philadelphia and you all have
heard me talk about it foryears and years that 2017 team
and what they had and how wellthey executed things on offense.
I was fooled as well, but thefurther we get away from 2017
(21:33):
and that run, it's becomingabundantly clear that Howie
Roseman, in terms of what hedrafted and what he had in place
, carried Doug, and I thinkthat's kind of why Doug is upset
too.
He came here in a situationwillingly, by the way where he
joined Trent Baalke, who isnowhere near as good as Howie
(21:57):
Roseman, and, as a result, pressTaylor is suffering.
As a result, your otherassistants are suffering.
Right, you had to fire MikeCaldwell last year and you
probably didn't want to do that.
You had to, you know, fire someof his assistants.
You probably didn't want to dothat, but at the end of the day,
you willingly came toJacksonville, all right, and
(22:21):
when you came to Jacksonville,you should have known that that
was going to be.
Part of the territory is thatthey were going to have to fight
an uphill battle because TrentBaalke does not draft as well as
Howie Roseman Clear, cut anddry.
Howie Roseman is probably awhat?
Top seven GM, most people wouldsay, if some people will even
say top five that year, in 2017,he was drafting like maybe a
(22:44):
top four GM at that point.
And you came here with TrentBaalke, who doesn't draft nearly
as well, who will take fiveoff-ball linebackers in three or
four consecutive drafts.
That may not help the team inthe moments that they need them
the most.
Now, you know, obviously that'skind of helped now because the
(23:07):
defense was a little beat up, soit did help in this case.
But how is that helping TrevorLawrence, right, who is missing
games now and missed games lastyear?
How is that, um, you know,helping press taylor as well,
who you know you're defendingweek in and week out?
But you willingly walked intothis situation and you put press
(23:28):
in a terrible situation becauseyou put them in a situation
where the they don't have whatthey need in the trenches.
That's what it boils down to.
Phil howie roseman had the topoffensive line in football in
2017, uh, who he either draftedor got in free agency.
And you came here to TrentBaalke, who is probably arguably
a top bottom five drafter whenit comes to the offensive line,
(23:52):
and that's why Press Taylor isstruggling.
That's why anything thatthey've tried to concoct doesn't
go well offensively.
It's because they can't moveanybody off the ball on offense
and, arguably, in the defensivetrenches either, they can't get
in the backfield at times.
So, that being said, you know,when Doug lashes out at these
(24:13):
people, at the end of the day,he has to remember you asked for
this.
You joined Trent Baalke becausehe was probably one of the only
people that would, you know,come to this organization with
you being the GM and, at the endof the day, if you look at it
from that perspective, thatalone explains why he might be
mad at the questions that arecoming his way week in and week
(24:35):
out.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah, which is again ridiculous because, like you
keep saying, this is what youwanted.
You knew what went intopartnering with Trent Balke.
I'm sure he has feelers andfriends out there that are very
familiar with what went down inSan Francisco and in a way,
(24:57):
honestly, jay, these two weremeant for each other.
And like, in a way, honestly,jay, these two were meant for
each other.
Trent Bulkey is terrible at hisjob but sticks to his vision
and Doug Peterson has his son,press Taylor.
They both have their vices andthey both refuse to admit when
they've made a mistake or whenthey're wrong.
So in a way, you know what.
(25:18):
They're perfect for each other.
Maybe they'll reunite somewherein the future and ruin another
football team, because I thinkwe talked about this like a
couple weeks ago, maybe likevery early into the season.
Like, is Doug Peterson going toget another head coaching job
again?
I don't think so.
Trent Balke, where is he goingto land ever again after all
this?
You know, like, if Trent Balkyand I think it was Hicken who
(25:43):
mentioned this on the on theradio if Trent Balky makes this
pick again, I'm 100% cancelingmy season tickets.
There's absolutely no way.
I'm barely going to any moregames this year.
Anyway, just so you guys know,and I'm sure you won't be
surprised, like I couldn't givemy tickets away this past Sunday
, no one wanted them.
I tried to give them away twoof them for free, and you know,
(26:03):
I'm sure a lot of that had to dowith, you know, trevor Lawrence
not playing, but I mean, it'sstill an NFL product, right,
it's still Justin Jefferson onthe other side which I in all in
all probably would have likedto see play, even though he
didn't have a very good game.
But like, this is the you know,whatever you know, whatever you
(26:24):
know, you know how they saythat, saying like the hottest
ticket in town, the jaguars arewhatever.
The opposite of that is nowright.
I'm not going to go to the gamein the first um against the
texans, that is, I'll be inorlando for a concert.
I probably won't be at a gameagain until the next throwback
game against the jets.
Uh, because I really enjoyseeing Aaron Rodgers lose.
So I hope they come out of thatgame with a dub.
(26:44):
But this team is just becoming.
As long as Doug Peterson andTrambolke are still part of this
organization, I really have nodesire to watch or support the
product that's on the field andreally at this point it's more
so a respect and a love for theplayers that are on this team
(27:06):
because I feel for them.
I know they're trying hard, butif Tramp Balki is still in
charge of putting this teamtogether and we still have a
number one overall pick where Ithink you could pencil in a top
three pick bare minimum, thenI'm out.
I don't care that this newstadium is coming in until Trent
Baalke is removed from hisposition.
(27:28):
Doug, I think, is out the doorsooner rather than later.
We'll talk about that here injust a moment.
But Trent Baalke's got to go andI really hope that ShotKhan and
Tony Khan have brought inwhoever.
It is some sort of trust We'vetalked about that a lot here
over the last couple weeks somesort of group that has spoken to
(27:50):
him, people that he trusts,people that he believes in, and
they all tell him hey, theseguys got to go, both of them.
It can't be a halfway fix, it'sgot to go all the way.
So we'll see what happens.
But yeah, yeah, you can mark itdown right here jay 9 32 pm,
eastern time.
November 12, 2024, if trentbulky is still picking for the
(28:12):
jaguars when the nfl draft rollsaround in april.
I'm done, man.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
I can't do it yeah, I mean, that's crossed my mind
too as well Like if Trent ispicking for this team and yeah,
it was Hicken that kind ofbrought that topic up but if
Trent is picking again, like youknow what I thought about, I
kind of, you know, I put this inour text thread, but it's like
we may need to go back to beinga general podcast, a general NFL
(28:38):
podcast, because I don't knowif I could cover the Jazz again
with Trent Baalke leading theway or steering the ship, and
that's concerning that.
You know, that is a thoughtprocess.
Now I will say this there is alot of people saying that you
know, go to the buildingroutinely, that they haven't had
(28:59):
any indication that Trent'ssafe, right, and it could be a
little bit of paranoia on ourpart as Jazz fans to think he'll
stick, because he's always beenable to stick and get in Sean
Conn's mind and Tony Conn's mindand somehow just pull a, I
guess, a little finger for thoseof you who watch Game of
Thrones and just kind ofmanipulate them.
(29:20):
So I guess, like you know, theJags fans are rightfully
paranoid.
But a lot of people that youknow report to the building are,
you know, saying like theydon't get any indication that
he's safe.
Now they're not saying thathe's gone either, but nobody's
getting an indication that he'ssafe.
And here we are.
This is what the middle ofNovember, you know.
(29:49):
I think that could be apositive sign and I think it
could also be a positive signthat and I would have to kind of
go back and see how the trendor the pattern is going in years
prior, but it may be it's apositive sign that we're not
hearing from Ian Rappaport interms of Trent's job status yet
in the, you know, jonathan Jonesof the world, and maybe it's a
little too early for that rightnow.
Again, I would have to go backto years prior to find out when
(30:10):
we started getting inklings thatTrent was safe or not.
But it's kind of been quiet ingeneral, aside from, you know,
we'll hear.
Of course, doug Peters is onthe hot seat because the
national media is big on sportsbetting and you know they always
bring up the topic of you knowwho's the odds-on favorite to be
fired next.
(30:30):
So that's kind of been a thing.
But you know, maybe thequietness and the
no-news-is-good-news thing couldbe applied for Trent Baalke too
.
But we'll see and time willtell.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah, time will tell.
Indeed, We'll talk about thathere in just a moment.
It really does bother me whenyou look at these losses too
aside from the Bills loss, whichwas just obviously a disaster
disaster I mean you're talkingabout, and the bears lost that,
that was a 19 point loss butyou're talking about losses by
three, five, four, three, five,five.
(31:06):
Like man, anything that couldgo wrong has gone wrong, and
that is a.
That's a um, you know acultural thing the Jaguars are
culturally associated withlosing.
That's what Trambulki and DougPeterson have put together here.
(31:27):
It is what it is.
They're going to get absolutelyjust railroaded by the Lions
this upcoming weekend.
I don't think there's any ifs,ands or buts about that.
I have been graciously acceptedto the Lions bandwagon via
Twitter, jay, we were talkingabout that over the weekend.
The Lions were my first NFLfandom.
(31:49):
I grew up in Michigan.
For about four years I went toelementary school there and
those were the rough years.
Man, those were the ScottMitchell, barry Sanders, herman
Moore, johnny Morton, like thoseare the guys.
John Hanson, I think, was thename of the kicker.
Those were the rough times inDetroit.
That's when I was a fan of theLions.
But then, of course, you know,the Jaguars showed up in 95 and
(32:11):
I kind of moved over to rootingfor them.
But I've always been a fan ofthe Lions in the background
rooting for them.
And now that they're in thisplace, you, you know, I'll
happily jump on that bandwagon,although I have also declared
that if they start losing gamesI'll hop out, I'll hop back off
the bandwagon for the sake ofthe team's success.
So that does lead us to thenext question here.
(32:32):
Jay, we want to talk about herein the episode is when do we
think this is?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
going yeah I wanted to add something real quick,
just get your opinion onsomething.
Yeah, all right.
So, yeah, um, so, real quick,feel, and you can let me know if
I'm missing any teams that cometo mind.
But uh, this is a idea thatpopped in my head in terms of a
topic I wanted to get youropinion on.
So, of course, obviously, theJags aren't the only team that
(32:59):
are going to be looking for acoach next year.
That being said, of the teamsthat are being mentioned for
openings head coach openings,you know your Saints of the
world, us, the Jets, the Cowboys, the Bears, Bears probably.
Yeah, bears, yeah, the Bears.
Who do you think has the mostappealing opportunity to go to
(33:21):
if you're a head coach?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I think it is probably Chicago because of
Caleb Williams and they do haveweapons there in place.
You just have to fix that teamfrom the inside out of that
(33:50):
franchise and those fans.
I think it's probably Chicago.
I think, if it's the rightperson, then the Cowboys job.
I mean, listen, that roster isa mess.
But I mean, people have beenthrowing out especially ESPN.
I think it was Jeff Satter, no,no, no, it was Rex Ryan was
throwing out Deion Sanders tothe Cowboys.
And listen, I'm not really aCowboys supporter or fan anymore
(34:11):
, but for the pure spectacle ofit, sign me up for Prime in
Dallas.
I think it would be a disaster.
Personally, and you think theCowboys are entertaining now,
imagine if Deion Sanders wastheir head coach.
But if I had to rank them, Ithink I would put Chicago first
and then, honestly, I would putJacksonville because of,
(34:35):
obviously, trevor.
But you know you're looking atBrian Thomas Jr, tank Bigsby,
you've got guys on the defensiveside and you have the number
one pick.
Most likely Jacksonville shouldbe up there and, like you've
talked about in the past, ahands off owner, jacksonville
should be up there.
But I think it will probably beChicago because of the people
being so enamored with CalebWilliams, even though you know,
(34:57):
like you have pointed out, therewere some things that were
concerning and lo and behold,those things are coming to light
.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (35:04):
to light.
What do you think?
You know this isn't biased, butI think it's us, and here's why
Chicago does make a compellingcase.
But I think what has hurtChicago and why they are where
they are now and this is juststuff you see in reports, right
and just within the social mediacommunity is I think Chicago
(35:27):
may be where they are becausethey don't like the pay head
coaches crazy money, right.
So, that being said, that kindof would give us more appeal
because obviously Sean Conn'sgot the wallet you know what I'm
saying and he doesn't mindspending.
I mean at least that we've seenhe doesn't mind spending.
(35:49):
So I think that will maybe giveus the nod Now in terms of not
roster wise, which is the pointyou were making.
I don't know, I still like usover them.
And a head coach, right, that'staken, that has at least a
(36:13):
decent to great players at thepremium positions, and what I
mean by that is you look atBrian Thomas Jr.
I think we all believe he'll bea number one and whatever coach
gets him will have the commonsense to utilize him and go to
him as much as they should, andthat'll change the trajectory of
his career.
(36:33):
You look at the other premiumpositions, you're set at
defensive end, right.
Josh Allen, joshua Hines Allen,who I know, you know I
critiqued a few weeks ago sayingthat he's kind of going silent.
But when I watched the tape alittle bit more and went back
and looked at him solely, he'sstill him.
(36:54):
Trayvon Walker is still doinggood things and you know the
light is being shined on him.
I know he had the boneheadedpenalty but you know, when it
comes to getting Doug out ofhere, I guess nobody really
cares because that's justhelping the case to get out.
But Trayvon Walker, he has alight shine on him because
obviously Aiden Hutchinson isinjured at the moment and now
(37:16):
people could kind of get to putthe lens on him, so to speak.
So he's answered the call forthe most part.
So that's three premiumpositions between Brian Thomas,
josh Hines-Allen and TrayvonWalker, arguably some of the
most important positions on thefield.
Then you come to Trevor Lawrence.
(37:39):
That would vary on how GMs feelabout him or how coaches feel
about him.
Time will tell on that, butmean, we seem to think and we
just mentioned that he haselevated the offense and they
look like just straight crapwhen he was gone.
So that would speak volumes forhim and what he's been able to
do, despite being handicapped byhis GM and head coach.
(38:01):
I would think there are atleast over you know, a handful
of coaches and GMs that wouldlike to work with Trevor
Lawrence and think he has theskill set that's needed.
And then also, too, one morepremium position, which we kind
of don't know what we havebecause he's always been injured
, but could be something special.
Tyson Campbell at cornerback,like how many positions or how
(38:25):
many opportunities?
Like how many positions or howmany opportunities, job
opportunities you've seen, thathave been available with that
much talent at the premiumpositions.
Now, everything else you got tofix probably Right, but the
premium positions is what getsyou through the storm.
That's what you build around,essentially, and you fill in the
(38:47):
rest around the premiumposition.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
So from that perspective, I gotta go with us
yeah, you know, if you want toput jacksonville at number one
over chicago like I'm certainlynot going to argue with you.
I think, in terms of a roster,if aaron rogers is gone, I would
also consider the jets job,because I think they do also.
They also have a lot of reallygood guys at premium positions.
(39:10):
You're talking about Quincy andQuinnen Williams, right?
You still have Garrett Wilson,you still have Brees Hall, you
still have players that are onthe up and up.
Sauce Gardner she didn't evenmention him.
If Aaron Rodgers is gone, Ithink that could be a very
appealing destination for theright person.
You, you know, obviously, theNew York media, that market.
(39:30):
It takes a special, special guy, but I think you could probably
throw the Jets up there.
But yeah, I mean all thosepoints.
I think you're spot on.
So why wouldn't a Ben Johnsonwant to come down here?
Why would he want to go to anorganization like Chicago where
things are just an absolute mess, you know?
(39:51):
So come down here, have thequarterback and an incoming
number one overall pick.
Possibly that could be Travisfreaking Hunter.
Can you imagine what BenJohnson or the right offensive
minded coach could do withTravis Hunter?
Now you've come out and saidthat you'd probably put him at
DB.
But either way, you know, mikeRabel with Travis Hunter, right?
(40:13):
Aaron Glenn, aaron Glenn withTravis Hunter, come on.
So yeah, I'm not going to arguewith you too much there.
If you believe, or if otherpeople believe, that
Jacksonville would be on the topof people's lists for that.
But to kind of, we'll wrap upon this discussion, jacksonville
would be on the top of people'slists for that.
But to kind of we'll wrap up onthis discussion as we get to
(40:33):
the end of this episode, becausewe discussed it before we got
started.
When do you think this is goingto happen?
When things started to go south, we've circled the Lions game
11-17,.
This upcoming Sunday they'llhave the bye and then they'll
play Houston here at home onDecember 1st.
So you have that two-week span.
Is this it we expect?
(40:55):
Well, I'm maybe not speaking foryou, but I expect them to go to
Detroit, where they havehistorically played very poorly,
and the Lions just overcame afive-interception game by Jared
Goff against Houston and lookeddamn good doing it.
I think they're the mostcomplete team in football.
I don't know if you feel thesame way, but the Jaguars are
(41:16):
going to go up to Detroit, getabsolutely blown out of the
water and then we wait and see.
So when do we think this isgoing to happen, jay?
Is it going to happen the sameday?
Is he going to have thatconversation with Doug right
after the game?
Are they going to wait tillMonday?
How do we feel like this isgoing to play out?
Because the eyes of the fanbase will certainly be
(41:39):
refreshing Twitter, waiting forsome news if, and most likely
when, they do lose to Detroitthis upcoming Sunday.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Well, you, kind of mentioned something I didn't
even really think about untilyou said it.
Most likely, when they do loseto Detroit this upcoming Sunday
Well, you kind of mentionedsomething I didn't even really
think about until you said itthey have to travel to Detroit,
right, so that might delay it.
If they're going to fire him,that might delay it.
They might wait till they gethome and do it on Monday Because
you don't want another GusBradley situation, right, say
what you want about Gus thecoach, and you know how
(42:08):
successful he was and howsuccessful he's been at
Indianapolis as well.
But I think we all felt like wefelt about it.
Right.
Right, and maybe it's more tothe story than we think.
You know.
Who's to say Gus didn't saylike I want out before they got
in the air.
You know so, but I mean justthe whole, like looking at it
(42:31):
from the outside, in the way itwas presented to us, is that he
was fired before they got on aplane.
Right, and it didn't feel right.
And if that's what if again,keyword, if that's what happened
, you can't help but feel forGus, because he's a nice guy, by
(42:51):
the way.
Man, I took a picture with Gusat summer, like a training camp
one time, or whatever.
The case may be Cool as all getout, man, but yeah, I digress
from my point.
But yeah, with them having totravel back home, maybe that
might delay it a little bit.
If they're going to do it afterthe Lions game, and they might
wait till Monday, but I thinkthey do they should do it after
(43:15):
the Lions game and they mightwait till Monday, but I think
they do.
They should do it as soon aspossible, though, so you can
start getting the um, the nextyear interim head coach, ready,
and I mean I would say move onfrom Trent Baalke too, like I
mean it's nothing that importantthat needs to be done by a GM
at this point of the year.
I know we might have the firstoverall pick and all of that,
but those discussions of what todo with that, if you're going
to trade it away or havediscussions, you can have those
after the season, right?
That would be the mostappropriate time because
(43:37):
everybody would know theirstatus on the draft order, right
?
So I mean, I really think youcould fire Trent Baalke as well.
I don't know that they would,but I you could fire Trent
Baalke as well.
I don't know if that they would, but, um, I think that's more.
So the question is like do theyfire Trent as well?
Because I would and you can letEthan Waugh be your interim.
Now look what concerns me thatShotgun may fall in love with
(44:00):
Ethan Waugh, make him apermanent GM.
But you know, I again I canmake the case that you could
fire Trent Baalke too.
And, you know, make Ethan Waughthe interim GM, while you can
make Mike McCoy your interimhead coach, maybe, if that's the
route you want to go, or maybesomebody else on the staff.
But I think the question mightbe more so, not, doug, but
(44:22):
should they fire Trent after theLions game.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah, I mean, just make it a twofer, right.
I mean they're like I said,they're meant for each other
anyway they should.
You know they didn't come intogether but they should go out
together, right, like that wouldbe an all-time day on Jaguar
Twitter.
If they both get canned, thatwould be something else.
And, you know, take PressTaylor with you, that would be
(44:47):
something else.
And, you know, take PressTaylor with you, make sure that
he is also not left as part ofthe.
You know the remnants ofwhatever happens after this
upcoming game.
You know, I think it would be areally real disasters if they
won somehow.
I mean, listen, they've been inthese really close games with
top tier NFC teams.
Green Bay, Philly, I mean theVikings, I think, are fool's
(45:08):
gold.
I'm not because of Sam Darnold,but I mean they've been in some
of these games here lately withteams that are clearly better
than them.
So that would definitely be adisaster.
But yeah, I mean, why not?
Like you said, why not get ridof both?
I really don't think it reallyhelps anybody to keep Doug
(45:28):
around with just the discontenthe seems to have in the room now
.
He just doesn't seem like hewants to be here.
He has his attitude.
He doesn't want to answer anyquestions.
He thinks he's better thaneverybody else.
So why prolong it anymore,especially if they get blown out
by Detroit?
Go ahead, jay.
Yeah, I wouldn't say that.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
He seems like he doesn't want to be there.
I prolong it anymore,especially if they get blown out
by Detroit.
Go ahead, jay.
Yeah, I wouldn't say that.
He seems like he doesn't wantto be there.
He seems like he doesn't wantto man up and answer the
questions that need to beanswered after the game.
Sure, sure, yeah, yeah, as wesee the next Monday that he
comes back after the Sunday.
After they got their behindshanded to him, he's a little bit
(46:09):
more chipper on Monday than hewas on Sunday.
So I just think it's just the,just the stench of the game
that's wearing on him and, uh,you know, just not being able to
find the answers to make thoseclose games wins and you know,
it just kind of shows in the inthe press conference.
But yeah, I mean, you mentionedsomething that's interesting
with the the lions game.
(46:29):
I don't, you know, I don'tthink anybody expects us to beat
the lions, but I think onething that that you said that is
interesting.
It could be close, and thereason I say that is because,
like, the Jaguars got a littleand the lions have a little
animosity for each other.
You remember what was it lastyear when we went out there for
training camp Like it was alittle chippy man.
(46:52):
It was a little chippy and likeit wasn't getting crazy to the
point where people were throwinguppercuts or anything crazy
like that, but it was a few youknow scrums that had to be
broken up.
So I don't think the Jaguarstoo much care for the Lions, to
be honest with you, and we kindof saw it in that I think it was
the episode of the hunt or itmight have been sounds of the
(47:13):
game when we played them thatpreseason and you know you could
just kind of tell on the energyon the sideline that the
Jaguars was kind of they werekind of tired of the Lions in
that preseason game.
I think we might have won thatpreseason game but yeah, they
were kind of tired of them.
Like you could just feel itfrom the energy the coaches were
giving on the sideline Like andwhat they were saying about.
(47:35):
I think it was the defensiveline coach at the time.
I forgot his name but you knowhe's yelling get him off the
field in terms of get the Lionsoffense off of the field,
because I think we sackedsomebody at that time.
Again, it's preseason but thatdon't mean you can't be
energetic on the sidelines.
But yeah, I think like if theJaguars come out there with a
(47:57):
chip on their shoulder and justremember how much they didn't
like the Lions last year and howthings went in training camp,
they might come out there andput up a little bit more fight
than we're expecting, whichwould be interesting.
I guess that will further makethe point for a next coach to
kind of be enamored with them.
And now that I'm thinking aboutit, what time to look good
(48:18):
against a team than possibly infront of your future head coach
and ben johnson?
So maybe we should root for thejaguars to look pretty decent.
I don't know, ph, what youthink of that.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
There you go, the roles are reversed.
It's actually a interview forthe Jaguars, for Ben Johnson, as
opposed to vice versa.
Maybe Ben Johnson will seesomething out of well, we expect
, obviously, it to be Mac Jones,unfortunately, but you know,
seeing something in the teamthat he's like, you know what?
I can, I can turn this teamaround.
(48:51):
There's enough here, and he'lltalk about that in his opening
press conference after gettinghired, talking about how that
game was the game where hedecided Jacksonville is the
place for me, or Aaron Glenn.
You know we both, both thoseguys run our list.
Listen to that episode from afew months back, a few weeks ago
.
Maybe either one of those guyssees what happens this Sunday
(49:12):
and thinks to themselves youknow what?
This is a team, this is afranchise.
I can help turn around, as longas you know, I'm not paired
with Trent Balky.
So, yeah, who knows?
Yeah, but they have beenplaying well.
I do think this is one of thoseteams.
When you talk about the upperechelon of the NFL, you know the
Lions are definitely them, justlike I think Buffalo was.
But yeah, I think it couldprobably get pretty ugly, but
(49:36):
just because of how we playedagainst Detroit in Detroit.
But, yeah, they've beencompetitive in these games,
which is very frustrating, but,yeah, who knows how it could go
down.
But, jay, anything else youwant to mention here as we wrap
up this episode?
We're approaching an hour andyou know we were kind of just in
a in an idling stance here.
Right, we're out on the runway,we're waiting for things to
(49:59):
happen.
We're waiting to hear fromground control to give us
liftoff in terms of whatever thenext portion of the
Jacksonville Jaguars is going tobe, the next era.
Right, we hope that doesn'tinvolve Trent Baalke.
We're pretty sure it's notgoing to involve Doug Peterson.
We do know who is going to behere.
We just need to know who'sgoing to lead them, right?
Speaker 2 (50:22):
So anything else you want to mention before we wrap
up this week's episode?
Nah, man, again, as you said,man, kind of interesting episode
, none the least man.
Kind of interesting episode,none the least man.
And it's always as painful asit is to watch the Jaguars.
I don't take for grantedjumping in the booth with my
longtime friend to talk somefootball, and it helps also just
kind of, I guess, get over theloss as well, the fact that you
(50:42):
get to do it with your friends.
So, yeah, man, hopefully, man,we'll get that news that we want
.
As you said, we don'tnecessarily root for people to
lose their jobs, but we live ina world where, when you're bad
at your job, you know you got to.
I mean, we live in a societywhere you have to find somebody
better to do that job.
I mean, nobody will havesympathy for us in our everyday
(51:03):
jobs if we got fired Right andthey would move on with life
right.
So, that being said, man, asalways, you, always, you guys
know where to find us atsportsgrind, underscore dunn, at
fieldofilipino, at tdjadwarspodand wwwtouchdownjadwarscom, if
(51:24):
you want to check out thewebsite.
Also, shout outs to our sponsorSeatGeek.
You can use our promotion code,touchdown Jaguars to get
yourself $20 off of your firstorder with them.
Seatgeek is your go-to placefor your ticketing needs,
whether that's in the sportsworld, or whether that's in the
(51:44):
music world in terms of concerts.
Whatever the case may be,whatever kind of event you're
looking for, they got youcovered Again.
Promotion code is TouchdownJaguars.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
Yep, all of that is in the Linktree link in the show
notes of each and every episode, so make sure you guys check
out all of that.
So, folks, once again, that ismy co-host, james Johnson.
I am Phil Smith, and do notforget to tune in to Touchdown
Jaguars for each and everyJaguar Touchdown, and we'll see
you next week.
Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast.
Here are your hosts, jamesJohnson and Phil Smith.
Hey everyone, welcome back tothe Touchdown Jaguars podcast.
I am your co-host, phil Smith,and joining us, as always, is
(00:39):
your other co-host, jamesJohnson and Jay.
Here we are, episode 102 of theTouchdown Jaguars podcast, and
even though we are in our nextset of 100 episodes,
unfortunately the result for theJacksonville Jaguars has not
changed.
So, despite the loss anddespite things continuing to
just spiral out of control forthis team, it is good to be back
(01:01):
here with you, jay, as wemissed last week together
because I was doing sometraveling.
I was out in Dallas with myfamily and came home to the
Jaguars not doing a whole lotright, they can't move the ball
down the field.
Trevor Lawrence is hurt andthere's all these rumors
(01:21):
swirling about his camp andwhat's going on over there, and
there's all these rumorsswirling about his camp and
what's going on over there.
Doug Peterson thinks that he'sbetter than everybody in that
media room, brett Martineauincluded, and you know it's just
not getting any better and wegot to wonder how much worse
it's going to get before it doesget better.
So we are going to talk aboutsome of those things here in
(01:42):
today's episode we are alsogoing to, you know we'll
probably briefly discuss thegame, but more so just talk
about the state of the team.
We saw Austin Lane certainlyand understandably upset about
how Doug Peterson is respondingto Brenton Martin.
No, obviously they're theirco-hosts, their buddies and just
the fan base in general beingpretty sick of it.
(02:04):
So we're going to break allthat down here today in episode
102.
But you know, first andforemost, like I said, good to
be back here with you recordingthis evening.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah, man, we're just counting down the days of, you
know, getting that notificationthat Doug Peterson is gone,
right, kind of like we werecounting down the days for Urban
Meyer on, right, kind of likewe were counting down the days
for Urban Meyer, but with Urban,I guess we didn't have a lot of
time to prepare for it, becausethe Josh Lambeau stuff kind of
came out of nowhere.
And then that's when werealized like, oh, this is a
(02:34):
possibility, right.
But I digress from my point.
Man, yeah, man can't wait todiscuss and break down the game
which was, you know it was aloss, but at least it was like
entertaining.
You know what I'm saying.
I think the last game before itwas pretty entertaining too
which I did the solo on.
So it wasn't a lot of scoringnecessarily, but it was
(02:57):
entertaining from a perspectiveof the defense at least showed
up, right, they, they hadmultiple picks from the
secondary.
So, um, you know, that'ssomething we haven't seen.
You know, this team hasn't beenable to like, really generate
picks in this ryan nielsendefense, and that was kind of a
thing with when he was with thefalcons too.
(03:18):
So, um, I think that's one ofthe more interesting takes from
it, uh, but nonetheless, youknow there's no moral victories
in football, but some, certainlysome interesting things to talk
about in terms of the game and,as you said, you know just some
of the rumblings and rumors.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, I mean it was entertaining in the sense that
you know they were in the gamelike they had a chance to win at
the end.
But I'll be honest with you,like just going through and
watching the condensed versionof the game, like I was
struggling.
I had to do it in two differentsittings because I was kind of
like falling asleep.
But you know that's, that iswhat it is, especially watching
(03:58):
Mac Jones play quarterback andSam Darnold.
Reverting to who Sam Darnoldmost likely is, I know people
were kind of like making a bigdeal about Doug Peterson being
asked like what do you think waslike key to the turnaround of
Sam Darnold?
And he said Justin Jefferson.
And listen, Justin Jeffersoncould make either one of us look
good at quarterback.
(04:19):
So you know, even though we'repretty frustrated with Doug, he
wasn't necessarily wrong, Right?
You know Jacksonville has beenpretty frustrated with Doug.
He wasn't necessarily wrong,right?
You know Jacksonville has beenin some of these games, just
like last week's game you talkedabout with Philly.
They had a chance to win thatgame.
They certainly could have wonthis one and, you know, chalk it
up to another instance wherethey just could not wrap things
up this past Sunday.
(04:39):
But we're going to dive intoall of that here in just a
moment.
I want to welcome in any brandnew and returning listeners to
the Touchdown Jaguars podcast,episode 102.
For those of you that are new,make sure you check the Linktree
link in the show notes of thisepisode.
You'll find everything you needas far as social media pages,
the website touchdownjaguarscom,as well as our promo code,
(05:00):
Touchdown Jaguars, so you cansave yourself $20 on your first
purchase with SeatGeek.
So, with all that being said,Jay, let's go ahead and just
dive right in.
We will start with the game, asthe Jaguars fell to the
Minnesota Vikings 12-7.
And that is not a baseballscore, that is a football score.
Four field goals for theMinnesota Vikings from a kicker
(05:21):
in, John Parker Romo, who Ibelieve had just been added to
the team the previous week.
I mean, they mentioned itenough on the damn telecast,
didn't they, that he had justwon a kicking competition, but
he ended up being the bigdifference for the Minnesota
Vikings.
The Jaguars held a lead, I wouldsay, for a good portion of this
(05:43):
game, into the fourth quarter,if I recall correctly right, Jay
, where they were up either 7-3or 7-6.
But it was just not a fun gameto watch from an offensive
standpoint, but we did see thedefense doing a lot of swarming.
You know, Justin Jefferson waspretty much held in check 5 for
48.
(06:03):
And Sam Darnold, like wealluded to, had a really rough
day 24 of 38, threeinterceptions.
Probably should have had four,but he certainly did not look
good.
Aaron Jones had a pretty decentday on the run 17 carries for 88
yards, but the sole touchdownwas scored on a Mack Jones
(06:24):
quarterback sneak down there atthe one.
So other than that, as far asoffense goes, like I said, not
really a whole lot to write homeabout, but we did see some
encouraging things defensively,Although I don't know how
encouraging things can really bewhen your team is two and eight
Right can really be when yourteam is two and eight right.
(06:45):
So, um, yeah, just kind of walkus through it, because you just
recently finished, uh, watchingthe condensed version as well.
What did you see?
What did you like?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
what didn't you like as far as the jaguars most
recent loss yeah, so well, firstand foremost, man, I think one
thing we need to get out of theway here let's kill the Matt
Jones noise, right, because alot of people were trying to,
you know, hype him up to besomebody who the Patriots
(07:16):
basically failed and you knowthey did, I'll admit that and
that he would just latch on withanother team and, you know,
take off, and a lot of peoplethought that would be the
Jacksonville Jaguars.
I mean, when, looking at thegame he was what?
14 to 22 for 111 yards.
It wasn't really impressive.
Had a couple of picks which youknow.
(07:36):
One of those picks was a playthat sparked the controversy of
Brent Martineau's question thatDoug, you know, gave him a
snooty answer on.
So we'll, I guess we'llprobably talk about that later
down the road.
But, yeah, let's let's kill theMac Jones noise because, as we
saw, a lot of people now oweTrevor Lawrence an apology and
(07:59):
it's clear as day that I thinksomebody put it might have been
John Shipley.
Um, I might, if I can recall.
I might be misquoting him, butsomebody said this.
But it's kind of clear thatTrevor Lawrence has kind of been
elevating the offense andthat's the biggest thing that
I'm happy about with this gameis that people saw and
(08:23):
especially the national analystssaw just how lethargic and just
how ineffective this offense iswithout Trevor Lawrence right,
and it also presented aopportunity for us not to hear a
lot of Trevor Lawrence, um, Iguess, uh hatred and and takes
from the national media as wellfor how he performed throughout
(08:47):
the week because obviously hedidn't play, or how he performed
on Sunday because obviously hedid not play.
So I think that's a bigtakeaway to take out of this is
that I feel like Trevor Lawrence, you know, has been carrying
this team a little bit nowlooking at how Matt Jones was
able to perform, bit now lookingat how Matt Jones was able to
(09:07):
perform, and I just hope he sitsfor the rest of the year at
this point and just protectshimself.
We don't know how severe theinjury is, but you know, the
further along we got throughoutthe weekend, you know it went
from kind of maybe he'll needsurgery, then it went to kind of
you know, surgery is underconsideration type of thing.
So we'll have to monitor thatheading forward.
(09:29):
And then, in terms of the restof the game, I think, just to
keep it brief, what it came downto is, while we were and I was
the person that said this thatyou know like the exciting part
of it was the defense gettingall the picks that they did
right.
But I think what ultimatelyhurt them and this game, make no
(09:53):
mistake about it, does not fallon the defense, but I think
what ultimately hurt them interms of when you look at it
from the defensive side since Ialready spent a lot of time
speaking on Mac Jones and theoffensive side is the center of
the field was open a lot.
And you know there were timeswhere, obviously, sam Darnold
should have come away out ofthis game with, you know, 24
(10:14):
points, 28 points, somethinglike that, but he would utilize
the middle of the field well andthen get to the end zone and
throw a pick or something crazyhappens.
So they killed us in the middleof the field.
I'll say that your guy, joshOliver, that you've been hyping
up for many, many years, tjHawkinson, doing his thing in
the middle, justin Jefferson,they held him in check for only
(10:38):
what?
Five catches for 48 yards, butI think he had a few in the
middle, if I can recall as welltoo.
So the middle of the defensewas kind of victimized.
And also, too, while Aaron Jonesdidn't get a lot of carries
right field, it felt like everytime that man touched the ball
he was getting five yards ormore.
I mean, well, his average saysthat all he had 5.2 yards on the
(11:01):
day, but every time he touchedthe ball was an easy five, six,
seven yards, and not just him.
It felt like it was that wayfor um, the other running backs
as well, and sam donald.
When sam donald took off fromwithin the pocket, he got an
easy five, six, seven yards.
So I think when you look at the12 points that the vikers were
(11:23):
to get, that's what it boils nowto is the Jaguar struggle in
the passing game in the middleof the field and also just Aaron
Jones getting yards and chunks,although you know he kind of it
looks like he had a quiet day,but when he took it, when he did
touch the ball, he was prettyeffective with it.
And you know, when you got anoffense that only put up seven
(11:46):
points, that's all you need.
You know, even with the threepicks that Sam Darnold threw.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that, because the
person that did come outvictorious this weekend is
Trevor Lawrence, right, I mean,he has been making this offense
look better than it actually isand has been carrying this team
for essentially as long as wecan remember.
I mean, all the evidence wasthere, right, last season when
(12:15):
he went down with the injury,tries to play through it, and
then the team just isn't thesame, right?
I mean, we're a year removedfrom talking about the Jaguars
having the number one seed inthe AFC, and that wasn't on
accident, like Trevor wascooking.
And, yes, they were gettingcarved up by the backup
quarterback for the CincinnatiBengals, but that wasn't Trev's
(12:37):
fault.
He was going, you know, shotfor shot with Cincinnati the
name of that QB is escaping meright now, but it's not a
coincidence that when he wentdown, then the team went down.
As Trevor goes, they go.
One thing that's reallyfrustrating is something that
happened elsewhere in the leaguetoday.
(12:59):
I'm recording this on November12th, the evening of November
12th, and the Chicago Bearsfired their offensive
coordinator today.
Right, they stepped away fromShane Waldron and they are in a
somewhat similar position thanus as us.
Right, they bring in thisgenerational quarterback, who
(13:21):
some people say is agenerational quarterback.
You and I have obviously alwaysfelt a little indifferent
towards Caleb Williams, butthat's beside the point.
But they recognize that ShaneWaldron, that their offensive
coordinator, is bad for thedevelopment of their quarterback
.
Right, they were four and two,you know, one of those wins
(13:43):
against us, unfortunately.
But I think since then they'velost three straight and they
also have a you know, messysituation when it comes to their
head coach.
That guy's probably not going tobe there going forward.
But regardless, the Bearsidentified and understood that
their current situation atoffensive coordinator was not
(14:06):
good enough and actually couldbe hurting the development of
their star hopefully starquarterback and franchise and
future franchise.
Meanwhile you have dougpeterson over here pushing Press
Taylor around in a stroller andbringing him wherever he goes
(14:29):
and standing by this person andultimately it's going to cost
him another NFL job.
And he's in the press boxtalking to somebody who is
esteemed and who has doneeverything by the book and who
is just beloved by essentiallyeverybody in Brent Martin know
and he's talking down to himbecause he fell backwards into a
(14:49):
Super Bowl, because he had ageneral manager that carried and
called him all the way thereand Nick Foles won on a
generational run.
So even though the ChicagoBears like we kind of touched on
this a couple weeks ago, right,jay, we said would you rather
be an organization that's alwaysin the spotlight, which a big
market like Chicago is going tobe, or Jacksonville?
(15:10):
Even though the Bears are amess, at least they're doing
something that will hopefully befor the betterment of their
quarterback.
And you also touched on this acouple weeks ago as well.
If a general manager foundthemselves once again picking
first overall for the third timein five years in dallas, in la,
(15:34):
in baltimore, in new york, thepeople at espn and nfl network
would be throwing things at thewall, wondering how somebody
like that still has a job.
So Trambolke is also benefitingfrom Jacksonville being in a
small market because he gets tohide behind his mistakes year
(15:57):
after year after year after yearand somehow convince the Khans
that he is doing a good job.
Convince the Khans that he isdoing a good job.
So I hope that Shad Khan's youknow yacht, super yacht, being
in the in the St John's river isa precursor to both of them
being shown the door.
We don't ever want to campaignfor people losing their job,
(16:19):
losing their livelihood, butwhen you're effectively just
making things worse and going tohave this attitude, why do I
want you part of my organization?
I hope, I hope shot and TonyKhan are having those
conversations and seeing what isbeing said, I bet those two
have great respect for BrentMartino.
I bet they wouldn't talk to himlike that.
(16:39):
So I know I I stepped away fromtalking about the actual game,
but like, like, this is just sofrustrating.
And again, the game is boringanyway, so who cares?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
but seeing what the Bears did today frustrated me
even more about what we're notdoing here yeah, yeah, you
mentioned something there withyou know them, moving on from
Shane Waldron, that I want tokind of hit on too.
This is just, you know me beinga Bulldog fan, but Thomas Brown
will be the interim OCreplacing him.
(17:13):
So go Dogs right there.
So Thomas Brown will actuallyget a shot, and I think Thomas
Brown used to be an offensivecoordinator at one point in time
for the Panthers, like a yearor two ago.
He'll get a shot at, you know,helping maybe Caleb Williams get
things right over there.
And I know this is a Jaguarspodcast, but you know you did
(17:34):
mention the Shane Waldron thingand yeah, man, like everybody
already heard my take on thewhole situation with you know
what he said to the, not justBrent, but just to the media in
general.
And it is because you know it'sthe and I think T Witt kind of
(17:54):
said this and he said itperfectly Like he's probably
protecting his son at this point, because how Press Taylor looks
is a indictment on him as a,you know, as ultimately the guy
that has been his mentor.
So you know, I'm not sayingthat makes it right.
You know his attitude towardsthe media or what have you, but
(18:17):
I guess, like the way we shouldlook at it.
Is somebody kind of, as yousaid, feel coddling or whatever
the case may be his son, butstill, I mean, at the end of the
day, as I said in my tweet,first and foremost, you're a
grown man and you need to knowhow to talk to the other grown
people, first and foremost.
Secondly, brent Martin, though,to my knowledge and we've been
(18:42):
in the media room multiple timesat this point has always been
respectful, right, and hasalways not only done, been super
respectful, but you know, he,he and the rest of the media, to
my to my knowledge, again, wehaven't been in there like all
year, every year, but, um,they're, they've been very
(19:03):
respectful of coaches,boundaries and what have you,
and it's not like a media room,and that's the thing that that
irks me.
We're not talking about a lalike media room, right.
We're not talking about aphiladelphia like media room
where the writers and you knowthe beat writers and reporters
can get a little bit too pushyand like skip bayless isn't
(19:25):
standing outside of the lockerroom.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
You know what I mean.
Like we're talking about.
We're talking about, likestand-up people.
We're talking about, you know,mia, we're talking about john
shipley, uh, brent, you know,we're talking about all these
people who are good people andhe's talking to them like that.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Right, demetrius, so on and so forth.
It's not in a prime example ofthis.
It's not like the Joel and Bsituation, where a beat report
is mentioned in Joel and B's youknow people that have passed on
from his family which is reallyjust utterly just ridiculous.
Why would you do that?
First and foremost and you knowyou can't you can absolutely
(20:05):
understand where Joel and Bwould be upset with.
That is why I brought that up.
It's not anything like thatwhere it's a super messy media
room.
For the most part, fromeverything we've seen in the
encounters we've been in there,everybody was welcoming and, you
know, nobody really reallypushes the coaches like that.
And, as a matter of fact, foryears and years the big thing
(20:26):
has been, at least from thefans' perspective, is like you
guys didn't drill the coachenough.
You guys didn't drill Shaq Khanenough.
You guys didn't drill TrentBaalke enough when they took the
podium and the few times thatthey do take the podium, you
guys didn't ask the hard hittingquestions like you should.
So for Doug to kind of like youknow, lash out at the media
(20:48):
room in general, like that kindof struck a chord with me, as
you're also on Twitter and asyou said, you mentioned the same
thing that I mentioned.
Man, like you know, now he'strying to act like you know what
don't stink because hebasically, you know he took
advantage of a run where HowieRoseman drafted very well.
(21:09):
And now we're starting to seeand I was including me in this I
was fooled by what we saw overin Philadelphia and you all have
heard me talk about it foryears and years that 2017 team
and what they had and how wellthey executed things on offense.
I was fooled as well, but thefurther we get away from 2017
(21:33):
and that run, it's becomingabundantly clear that Howie
Roseman, in terms of what hedrafted and what he had in place
, carried Doug, and I thinkthat's kind of why Doug is upset
too.
He came here in a situationwillingly, by the way where he
joined Trent Baalke, who isnowhere near as good as Howie
(21:57):
Roseman, and, as a result, pressTaylor is suffering.
As a result, your otherassistants are suffering.
Right, you had to fire MikeCaldwell last year and you
probably didn't want to do that.
You had to, you know, fire someof his assistants.
You probably didn't want to dothat, but at the end of the day,
you willingly came toJacksonville, all right, and
(22:21):
when you came to Jacksonville,you should have known that that
was going to be.
Part of the territory is thatthey were going to have to fight
an uphill battle because TrentBaalke does not draft as well as
Howie Roseman Clear, cut anddry.
Howie Roseman is probably awhat?
Top seven GM, most people wouldsay, if some people will even
say top five that year, in 2017,he was drafting like maybe a
(22:44):
top four GM at that point.
And you came here with TrentBaalke, who doesn't draft nearly
as well, who will take fiveoff-ball linebackers in three or
four consecutive drafts.
That may not help the team inthe moments that they need them
the most.
Now, you know, obviously that'skind of helped now because the
(23:07):
defense was a little beat up, soit did help in this case.
But how is that helping TrevorLawrence, right, who is missing
games now and missed games lastyear?
How is that, um, you know,helping press taylor as well,
who you know you're defendingweek in and week out?
But you willingly walked intothis situation and you put press
(23:28):
in a terrible situation becauseyou put them in a situation
where the they don't have whatthey need in the trenches.
That's what it boils down to.
Phil howie roseman had the topoffensive line in football in
2017, uh, who he either draftedor got in free agency.
And you came here to TrentBaalke, who is probably arguably
a top bottom five drafter whenit comes to the offensive line,
(23:52):
and that's why Press Taylor isstruggling.
That's why anything thatthey've tried to concoct doesn't
go well offensively.
It's because they can't moveanybody off the ball on offense
and, arguably, in the defensivetrenches either, they can't get
in the backfield at times.
So, that being said, you know,when Doug lashes out at these
(24:13):
people, at the end of the day,he has to remember you asked for
this.
You joined Trent Baalke becausehe was probably one of the only
people that would, you know,come to this organization with
you being the GM and, at the endof the day, if you look at it
from that perspective, thatalone explains why he might be
mad at the questions that arecoming his way week in and week
(24:35):
out.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yeah, which is again ridiculous because, like you
keep saying, this is what youwanted.
You knew what went intopartnering with Trent Balke.
I'm sure he has feelers andfriends out there that are very
familiar with what went down inSan Francisco and in a way,
(24:57):
honestly, jay, these two weremeant for each other.
And like, in a way, honestly,jay, these two were meant for
each other.
Trent Bulkey is terrible at hisjob but sticks to his vision
and Doug Peterson has his son,press Taylor.
They both have their vices andthey both refuse to admit when
they've made a mistake or whenthey're wrong.
So in a way, you know what.
(25:18):
They're perfect for each other.
Maybe they'll reunite somewherein the future and ruin another
football team, because I thinkwe talked about this like a
couple weeks ago, maybe likevery early into the season.
Like, is Doug Peterson going toget another head coaching job
again?
I don't think so.
Trent Balke, where is he goingto land ever again after all
this?
You know, like, if Trent Balkyand I think it was Hicken who
(25:43):
mentioned this on the on theradio if Trent Balky makes this
pick again, I'm 100% cancelingmy season tickets.
There's absolutely no way.
I'm barely going to any moregames this year.
Anyway, just so you guys know,and I'm sure you won't be
surprised, like I couldn't givemy tickets away this past Sunday
, no one wanted them.
I tried to give them away twoof them for free, and you know,
(26:03):
I'm sure a lot of that had to dowith, you know, trevor Lawrence
not playing, but I mean, it'sstill an NFL product, right,
it's still Justin Jefferson onthe other side which I in all in
all probably would have likedto see play, even though he
didn't have a very good game.
But like, this is the you know,whatever you know, whatever you
(26:24):
know, you know how they saythat, saying like the hottest
ticket in town, the jaguars arewhatever.
The opposite of that is nowright.
I'm not going to go to the gamein the first um against the
texans, that is, I'll be inorlando for a concert.
I probably won't be at a gameagain until the next throwback
game against the jets.
Uh, because I really enjoyseeing Aaron Rodgers lose.
So I hope they come out of thatgame with a dub.
(26:44):
But this team is just becoming.
As long as Doug Peterson andTrambolke are still part of this
organization, I really have nodesire to watch or support the
product that's on the field andreally at this point it's more
so a respect and a love for theplayers that are on this team
(27:06):
because I feel for them.
I know they're trying hard, butif Tramp Balki is still in
charge of putting this teamtogether and we still have a
number one overall pick where Ithink you could pencil in a top
three pick bare minimum, thenI'm out.
I don't care that this newstadium is coming in until Trent
Baalke is removed from hisposition.
(27:28):
Doug, I think, is out the doorsooner rather than later.
We'll talk about that here injust a moment.
But Trent Baalke's got to go andI really hope that ShotKhan and
Tony Khan have brought inwhoever.
It is some sort of trust We'vetalked about that a lot here
over the last couple weeks somesort of group that has spoken to
(27:50):
him, people that he trusts,people that he believes in, and
they all tell him hey, theseguys got to go, both of them.
It can't be a halfway fix, it'sgot to go all the way.
So we'll see what happens.
But yeah, yeah, you can mark itdown right here jay 9 32 pm,
eastern time.
November 12, 2024, if trentbulky is still picking for the
(28:12):
jaguars when the nfl draft rollsaround in april.
I'm done, man.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
I can't do it yeah, I mean, that's crossed my mind
too as well Like if Trent ispicking for this team and yeah,
it was Hicken that kind ofbrought that topic up but if
Trent is picking again, like youknow what I thought about, I
kind of, you know, I put this inour text thread, but it's like
we may need to go back to beinga general podcast, a general NFL
(28:38):
podcast, because I don't knowif I could cover the Jazz again
with Trent Baalke leading theway or steering the ship, and
that's concerning that.
You know, that is a thoughtprocess.
Now I will say this there is alot of people saying that you
know, go to the buildingroutinely, that they haven't had
(28:59):
any indication that Trent'ssafe, right, and it could be a
little bit of paranoia on ourpart as Jazz fans to think he'll
stick, because he's always beenable to stick and get in Sean
Conn's mind and Tony Conn's mindand somehow just pull a, I
guess, a little finger for thoseof you who watch Game of
Thrones and just kind ofmanipulate them.
(29:20):
So I guess, like you know, theJags fans are rightfully
paranoid.
But a lot of people that youknow report to the building are,
you know, saying like theydon't get any indication that
he's safe.
Now they're not saying thathe's gone either, but nobody's
getting an indication that he'ssafe.
And here we are.
This is what the middle ofNovember, you know.
(29:49):
I think that could be apositive sign and I think it
could also be a positive signthat and I would have to kind of
go back and see how the trendor the pattern is going in years
prior, but it may be it's apositive sign that we're not
hearing from Ian Rappaport interms of Trent's job status yet
in the, you know, jonathan Jonesof the world, and maybe it's a
little too early for that rightnow.
Again, I would have to go backto years prior to find out when
(30:10):
we started getting inklings thatTrent was safe or not.
But it's kind of been quiet ingeneral, aside from, you know,
we'll hear.
Of course, doug Peters is onthe hot seat because the
national media is big on sportsbetting and you know they always
bring up the topic of you knowwho's the odds-on favorite to be
fired next.
(30:30):
So that's kind of been a thing.
But you know, maybe thequietness and the
no-news-is-good-news thing couldbe applied for Trent Baalke too
.
But we'll see and time willtell.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah, time will tell.
Indeed, We'll talk about thathere in just a moment.
It really does bother me whenyou look at these losses too
aside from the Bills loss, whichwas just obviously a disaster
disaster I mean you're talkingabout, and the bears lost that,
that was a 19 point loss butyou're talking about losses by
three, five, four, three, five,five.
(31:06):
Like man, anything that couldgo wrong has gone wrong, and
that is a.
That's a um, you know acultural thing the Jaguars are
culturally associated withlosing.
That's what Trambulki and DougPeterson have put together here.
(31:27):
It is what it is.
They're going to get absolutelyjust railroaded by the Lions
this upcoming weekend.
I don't think there's any ifs,ands or buts about that.
I have been graciously acceptedto the Lions bandwagon via
Twitter, jay, we were talkingabout that over the weekend.
The Lions were my first NFLfandom.
(31:49):
I grew up in Michigan.
For about four years I went toelementary school there and
those were the rough years.
Man, those were the ScottMitchell, barry Sanders, herman
Moore, johnny Morton, like thoseare the guys.
John Hanson, I think, was thename of the kicker.
Those were the rough times inDetroit.
That's when I was a fan of theLions.
But then, of course, you know,the Jaguars showed up in 95 and
(32:11):
I kind of moved over to rootingfor them.
But I've always been a fan ofthe Lions in the background
rooting for them.
And now that they're in thisplace, you, you know, I'll
happily jump on that bandwagon,although I have also declared
that if they start losing gamesI'll hop out, I'll hop back off
the bandwagon for the sake ofthe team's success.
So that does lead us to thenext question here.
(32:32):
Jay, we want to talk about herein the episode is when do we
think this is?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
going yeah I wanted to add something real quick,
just get your opinion onsomething.
Yeah, all right.
So, yeah, um, so, real quick,feel, and you can let me know if
I'm missing any teams that cometo mind.
But uh, this is a idea thatpopped in my head in terms of a
topic I wanted to get youropinion on.
So, of course, obviously, theJags aren't the only team that
(32:59):
are going to be looking for acoach next year.
That being said, of the teamsthat are being mentioned for
openings head coach openings,you know your Saints of the
world, us, the Jets, the Cowboys, the Bears, Bears probably.
Yeah, bears, yeah, the Bears.
Who do you think has the mostappealing opportunity to go to
(33:21):
if you're a head coach?
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I think it is probably Chicago because of
Caleb Williams and they do haveweapons there in place.
You just have to fix that teamfrom the inside out of that
(33:50):
franchise and those fans.
I think it's probably Chicago.
I think, if it's the rightperson, then the Cowboys job.
I mean, listen, that roster isa mess.
But I mean, people have beenthrowing out especially ESPN.
I think it was Jeff Satter, no,no, no, it was Rex Ryan was
throwing out Deion Sanders tothe Cowboys.
And listen, I'm not really aCowboys supporter or fan anymore
(34:11):
, but for the pure spectacle ofit, sign me up for Prime in
Dallas.
I think it would be a disaster.
Personally, and you think theCowboys are entertaining now,
imagine if Deion Sanders wastheir head coach.
But if I had to rank them, Ithink I would put Chicago first
and then, honestly, I would putJacksonville because of,
(34:35):
obviously, trevor.
But you know you're looking atBrian Thomas Jr, tank Bigsby,
you've got guys on the defensiveside and you have the number
one pick.
Most likely Jacksonville shouldbe up there and, like you've
talked about in the past, ahands off owner, jacksonville
should be up there.
But I think it will probably beChicago because of the people
being so enamored with CalebWilliams, even though you know,
(34:57):
like you have pointed out, therewere some things that were
concerning and lo and behold,those things are coming to light
.
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (35:04):
to light.
What do you think?
You know this isn't biased, butI think it's us, and here's why
Chicago does make a compellingcase.
But I think what has hurtChicago and why they are where
they are now and this is juststuff you see in reports, right
and just within the social mediacommunity is I think Chicago
(35:27):
may be where they are becausethey don't like the pay head
coaches crazy money, right.
So, that being said, that kindof would give us more appeal
because obviously Sean Conn'sgot the wallet you know what I'm
saying and he doesn't mindspending.
I mean at least that we've seenhe doesn't mind spending.
(35:49):
So I think that will maybe giveus the nod Now in terms of not
roster wise, which is the pointyou were making.
I don't know, I still like usover them.
And a head coach, right, that'staken, that has at least a
(36:13):
decent to great players at thepremium positions, and what I
mean by that is you look atBrian Thomas Jr.
I think we all believe he'll bea number one and whatever coach
gets him will have the commonsense to utilize him and go to
him as much as they should, andthat'll change the trajectory of
his career.
(36:33):
You look at the other premiumpositions, you're set at
defensive end, right.
Josh Allen, joshua Hines Allen,who I know, you know I
critiqued a few weeks ago sayingthat he's kind of going silent.
But when I watched the tape alittle bit more and went back
and looked at him solely, he'sstill him.
(36:54):
Trayvon Walker is still doinggood things and you know the
light is being shined on him.
I know he had the boneheadedpenalty but you know, when it
comes to getting Doug out ofhere, I guess nobody really
cares because that's justhelping the case to get out.
But Trayvon Walker, he has alight shine on him because
obviously Aiden Hutchinson isinjured at the moment and now
(37:16):
people could kind of get to putthe lens on him, so to speak.
So he's answered the call forthe most part.
So that's three premiumpositions between Brian Thomas,
josh Hines-Allen and TrayvonWalker, arguably some of the
most important positions on thefield.
Then you come to Trevor Lawrence.
(37:39):
That would vary on how GMs feelabout him or how coaches feel
about him.
Time will tell on that, butmean, we seem to think and we
just mentioned that he haselevated the offense and they
look like just straight crapwhen he was gone.
So that would speak volumes forhim and what he's been able to
do, despite being handicapped byhis GM and head coach.
(38:01):
I would think there are atleast over you know, a handful
of coaches and GMs that wouldlike to work with Trevor
Lawrence and think he has theskill set that's needed.
And then also, too, one morepremium position, which we kind
of don't know what we havebecause he's always been injured
, but could be something special.
Tyson Campbell at cornerback,like how many positions or how
(38:25):
many opportunities?
Like how many positions or howmany opportunities, job
opportunities you've seen, thathave been available with that
much talent at the premiumpositions.
Now, everything else you got tofix probably Right, but the
premium positions is what getsyou through the storm.
That's what you build around,essentially, and you fill in the
(38:47):
rest around the premiumposition.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
So from that perspective, I gotta go with us
yeah, you know, if you want toput jacksonville at number one
over chicago like I'm certainlynot going to argue with you.
I think, in terms of a roster,if aaron rogers is gone, I would
also consider the jets job,because I think they do also.
They also have a lot of reallygood guys at premium positions.
(39:10):
You're talking about Quincy andQuinnen Williams, right?
You still have Garrett Wilson,you still have Brees Hall, you
still have players that are onthe up and up.
Sauce Gardner she didn't evenmention him.
If Aaron Rodgers is gone, Ithink that could be a very
appealing destination for theright person.
You, you know, obviously, theNew York media, that market.
(39:30):
It takes a special, special guy, but I think you could probably
throw the Jets up there.
But yeah, I mean all thosepoints.
I think you're spot on.
So why wouldn't a Ben Johnsonwant to come down here?
Why would he want to go to anorganization like Chicago where
things are just an absolute mess, you know?
(39:51):
So come down here, have thequarterback and an incoming
number one overall pick.
Possibly that could be Travisfreaking Hunter.
Can you imagine what BenJohnson or the right offensive
minded coach could do withTravis Hunter?
Now you've come out and saidthat you'd probably put him at
DB.
But either way, you know, mikeRabel with Travis Hunter, right?
(40:13):
Aaron Glenn, aaron Glenn withTravis Hunter, come on.
So yeah, I'm not going to arguewith you too much there.
If you believe, or if otherpeople believe, that
Jacksonville would be on the topof people's lists for that.
But to kind of, we'll wrap upon this discussion, jacksonville
would be on the top of people'slists for that.
But to kind of we'll wrap up onthis discussion as we get to
(40:33):
the end of this episode, becausewe discussed it before we got
started.
When do you think this is goingto happen?
When things started to go south, we've circled the Lions game
11-17,.
This upcoming Sunday they'llhave the bye and then they'll
play Houston here at home onDecember 1st.
So you have that two-week span.
Is this it we expect?
(40:55):
Well, I'm maybe not speaking foryou, but I expect them to go to
Detroit, where they havehistorically played very poorly,
and the Lions just overcame afive-interception game by Jared
Goff against Houston and lookeddamn good doing it.
I think they're the mostcomplete team in football.
I don't know if you feel thesame way, but the Jaguars are
(41:16):
going to go up to Detroit, getabsolutely blown out of the
water and then we wait and see.
So when do we think this isgoing to happen, jay?
Is it going to happen the sameday?
Is he going to have thatconversation with Doug right
after the game?
Are they going to wait tillMonday?
How do we feel like this isgoing to play out?
Because the eyes of the fanbase will certainly be
(41:39):
refreshing Twitter, waiting forsome news if, and most likely
when, they do lose to Detroitthis upcoming Sunday.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Well, you, kind of mentioned something I didn't
even really think about untilyou said it.
Most likely, when they do loseto Detroit this upcoming Sunday
Well, you kind of mentionedsomething I didn't even really
think about until you said itthey have to travel to Detroit,
right, so that might delay it.
If they're going to fire him,that might delay it.
They might wait till they gethome and do it on Monday Because
you don't want another GusBradley situation, right, say
what you want about Gus thecoach, and you know how
(42:08):
successful he was and howsuccessful he's been at
Indianapolis as well.
But I think we all felt like wefelt about it.
Right.
Right, and maybe it's more tothe story than we think.
You know.
Who's to say Gus didn't saylike I want out before they got
in the air.
You know so, but I mean justthe whole, like looking at it
(42:31):
from the outside, in the way itwas presented to us, is that he
was fired before they got on aplane.
Right, and it didn't feel right.
And if that's what if again,keyword, if that's what happened
, you can't help but feel forGus, because he's a nice guy, by
(42:51):
the way.
Man, I took a picture with Gusat summer, like a training camp
one time, or whatever.
The case may be Cool as all getout, man, but yeah, I digress
from my point.
But yeah, with them having totravel back home, maybe that
might delay it a little bit.
If they're going to do it afterthe Lions game, and they might
wait till Monday, but I thinkthey do they should do it after
(43:15):
the Lions game and they mightwait till Monday, but I think
they do.
They should do it as soon aspossible, though, so you can
start getting the um, the nextyear interim head coach, ready,
and I mean I would say move onfrom Trent Baalke too, like I
mean it's nothing that importantthat needs to be done by a GM
at this point of the year.
I know we might have the firstoverall pick and all of that,
but those discussions of what todo with that, if you're going
to trade it away or havediscussions, you can have those
after the season, right?
That would be the mostappropriate time because
(43:37):
everybody would know theirstatus on the draft order, right
?
So I mean, I really think youcould fire Trent Baalke as well.
I don't know that they would,but I you could fire Trent
Baalke as well.
I don't know if that they would, but, um, I think that's more.
So the question is like do theyfire Trent as well?
Because I would and you can letEthan Waugh be your interim.
Now look what concerns me thatShotgun may fall in love with
(44:00):
Ethan Waugh, make him apermanent GM.
But you know, I again I canmake the case that you could
fire Trent Baalke too.
And, you know, make Ethan Waughthe interim GM, while you can
make Mike McCoy your interimhead coach, maybe, if that's the
route you want to go, or maybesomebody else on the staff.
But I think the question mightbe more so, not, doug, but
(44:22):
should they fire Trent after theLions game.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah, I mean, just make it a twofer, right.
I mean they're like I said,they're meant for each other
anyway they should.
You know they didn't come intogether but they should go out
together, right, like that wouldbe an all-time day on Jaguar
Twitter.
If they both get canned, thatwould be something else.
And, you know, take PressTaylor with you, that would be
(44:47):
something else.
And, you know, take PressTaylor with you, make sure that
he is also not left as part ofthe.
You know the remnants ofwhatever happens after this
upcoming game.
You know, I think it would be areally real disasters if they
won somehow.
I mean, listen, they've been inthese really close games with
top tier NFC teams.
Green Bay, Philly, I mean theVikings, I think, are fool's
(45:08):
gold.
I'm not because of Sam Darnold,but I mean they've been in some
of these games here lately withteams that are clearly better
than them.
So that would definitely be adisaster.
But yeah, I mean, why not?
Like you said, why not get ridof both?
I really don't think it reallyhelps anybody to keep Doug
(45:28):
around with just the discontenthe seems to have in the room now
.
He just doesn't seem like hewants to be here.
He has his attitude.
He doesn't want to answer anyquestions.
He thinks he's better thaneverybody else.
So why prolong it anymore,especially if they get blown out
by Detroit?
Go ahead, jay.
Yeah, I wouldn't say that.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
He seems like he doesn't want to be there.
I prolong it anymore,especially if they get blown out
by Detroit.
Go ahead, jay.
Yeah, I wouldn't say that.
He seems like he doesn't wantto be there.
He seems like he doesn't wantto man up and answer the
questions that need to beanswered after the game.
Sure, sure, yeah, yeah, as wesee the next Monday that he
comes back after the Sunday.
After they got their behindshanded to him, he's a little bit
(46:09):
more chipper on Monday than hewas on Sunday.
So I just think it's just the,just the stench of the game
that's wearing on him and, uh,you know, just not being able to
find the answers to make thoseclose games wins and you know,
it just kind of shows in the inthe press conference.
But yeah, I mean, you mentionedsomething that's interesting
with the the lions game.
(46:29):
I don't, you know, I don'tthink anybody expects us to beat
the lions, but I think onething that that you said that is
interesting.
It could be close, and thereason I say that is because,
like, the Jaguars got a littleand the lions have a little
animosity for each other.
You remember what was it lastyear when we went out there for
training camp Like it was alittle chippy man.
(46:52):
It was a little chippy and likeit wasn't getting crazy to the
point where people were throwinguppercuts or anything crazy
like that, but it was a few youknow scrums that had to be
broken up.
So I don't think the Jaguarstoo much care for the Lions, to
be honest with you, and we kindof saw it in that I think it was
the episode of the hunt or itmight have been sounds of the
(47:13):
game when we played them thatpreseason and you know you could
just kind of tell on the energyon the sideline that the
Jaguars was kind of they werekind of tired of the Lions in
that preseason game.
I think we might have won thatpreseason game but yeah, they
were kind of tired of them.
Like you could just feel itfrom the energy the coaches were
giving on the sideline Like andwhat they were saying about.
(47:35):
I think it was the defensiveline coach at the time.
I forgot his name but you knowhe's yelling get him off the
field in terms of get the Lionsoffense off of the field,
because I think we sackedsomebody at that time.
Again, it's preseason but thatdon't mean you can't be
energetic on the sidelines.
But yeah, I think like if theJaguars come out there with a
(47:57):
chip on their shoulder and justremember how much they didn't
like the Lions last year and howthings went in training camp,
they might come out there andput up a little bit more fight
than we're expecting, whichwould be interesting.
I guess that will further makethe point for a next coach to
kind of be enamored with them.
And now that I'm thinking aboutit, what time to look good
(48:18):
against a team than possibly infront of your future head coach
and ben johnson?
So maybe we should root for thejaguars to look pretty decent.
I don't know, ph, what youthink of that.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
There you go, the roles are reversed.
It's actually a interview forthe Jaguars, for Ben Johnson, as
opposed to vice versa.
Maybe Ben Johnson will seesomething out of well, we expect
, obviously, it to be Mac Jones,unfortunately, but you know,
seeing something in the teamthat he's like, you know what?
I can, I can turn this teamaround.
(48:51):
There's enough here, and he'lltalk about that in his opening
press conference after gettinghired, talking about how that
game was the game where hedecided Jacksonville is the
place for me, or Aaron Glenn.
You know we both, both thoseguys run our list.
Listen to that episode from afew months back, a few weeks ago
.
Maybe either one of those guyssees what happens this Sunday
(49:12):
and thinks to themselves youknow what?
This is a team, this is afranchise.
I can help turn around, as longas you know, I'm not paired
with Trent Balky.
So, yeah, who knows?
Yeah, but they have beenplaying well.
I do think this is one of thoseteams.
When you talk about the upperechelon of the NFL, you know the
Lions are definitely them, justlike I think Buffalo was.
But yeah, I think it couldprobably get pretty ugly, but
(49:36):
just because of how we playedagainst Detroit in Detroit.
But, yeah, they've beencompetitive in these games,
which is very frustrating, but,yeah, who knows how it could go
down.
But, jay, anything else youwant to mention here as we wrap
up this episode?
We're approaching an hour andyou know we were kind of just in
a in an idling stance here.
Right, we're out on the runway,we're waiting for things to
(49:59):
happen.
We're waiting to hear fromground control to give us
liftoff in terms of whatever thenext portion of the
Jacksonville Jaguars is going tobe, the next era.
Right, we hope that doesn'tinvolve Trent Baalke.
We're pretty sure it's notgoing to involve Doug Peterson.
We do know who is going to behere.
We just need to know who'sgoing to lead them, right?
Speaker 2 (50:22):
So anything else you want to mention before we wrap
up this week's episode?
Nah, man, again, as you said,man, kind of interesting episode
, none the least man.
Kind of interesting episode,none the least man.
And it's always as painful asit is to watch the Jaguars.
I don't take for grantedjumping in the booth with my
longtime friend to talk somefootball, and it helps also just
kind of, I guess, get over theloss as well, the fact that you
(50:42):
get to do it with your friends.
So, yeah, man, hopefully, man,we'll get that news that we want
.
As you said, we don'tnecessarily root for people to
lose their jobs, but we live ina world where, when you're bad
at your job, you know you got to.
I mean, we live in a societywhere you have to find somebody
better to do that job.
I mean, nobody will havesympathy for us in our everyday
(51:03):
jobs if we got fired Right andthey would move on with life
right.
So, that being said, man, asalways, you, always, you guys
know where to find us atsportsgrind, underscore dunn, at
fieldofilipino, at tdjadwarspodand wwwtouchdownjadwarscom, if
(51:24):
you want to check out thewebsite.
Also, shout outs to our sponsorSeatGeek.
You can use our promotion code,touchdown Jaguars to get
yourself $20 off of your firstorder with them.
Seatgeek is your go-to placefor your ticketing needs,
whether that's in the sportsworld, or whether that's in the
(51:44):
music world in terms of concerts.
Whatever the case may be,whatever kind of event you're
looking for, they got youcovered Again.
Promotion code is TouchdownJaguars.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
Yep, all of that is in the Linktree link in the show
notes of each and every episode, so make sure you guys check
out all of that.
So, folks, once again, that ismy co-host, james Johnson.
I am Phil Smith, and do notforget to tune in to Touchdown
Jaguars for each and everyJaguar Touchdown, and we'll see
you next week.
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