Episode 103: Lions/Jaguars Week 11/BYE Week Analysis - Still No Coaching Change

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This week, our conversation takes a hard look at the Jaguar's recent struggles, including the blowout loss to the Detroit Lions. We're not shying away from the tough topics, questioning the leadership choices made by Shad Khan and the looming uncertainty around Doug Pederson and Trent Baalke’s future roles. From discussing the team's troubling fundamentals, like tackling and game planning, to the curious case of Khan’s luxurious yet seemingly disconnected yacht, the narrative around the Jaguars' leadership is anything but smooth sailing.

Amidst these challenges, there’s a glimmer of hope as we celebrate Fred Taylor's Hall of Fame nomination. Reflecting on his career, we find moments of gratitude and humor, especially as Thanksgiving memories come into play. As we contemplate the Jaguars' draft position and their upcoming games against teams like the Jets and Raiders, we continue to hold out for brighter days with Trevor Lawrence leading the charge. It's a rollercoaster of emotions and opinions, and we’re here to ride it with you, sharing our perspectives and hoping for a turnaround in Jacksonville’s fortunes.

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James Johnson and Phil Barrera bring you the best and most up to date Jacksonville Jaguars news. "Touchdown Jaguars!" is a tribute to the prospective ownership group "Touchdown Jacksonville!" In 1991, the NFL announced plans to add two expansion teams and "Touchdown Jacksonville!" announced its bid for a team, and Jacksonville was ultimately chosen as one of five finalists. In November 1993, the NFL owners voted 26–2 in favor of awarding the 30th franchise to Jacksonville. James and Phil have been fans of the franchise ever since and have had the honor (and sometimes dishonor) of covering the team professionally since 2017. The rest as they say, is history.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Still running and a goal.
That's it.
Let's go.
Touchdown Jacksonville.
A hundred and nine yardsIncredible Play action.
Bortles Upstairs Wide open.
Tommy Bohannon TouchdownJacksonville.

(00:47):
Looking for Jimmy in the endzone.
Touchdown Jaguars.
Touchdown Jaguars.
Touchdown Jaguars.
Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguarspodcast.
Here are your hosts, jamesJohnson and Phil Smith.

(01:08):
Hey everyone, welcome back tothe Touchdown Jaguars podcast.
I am your co-host, phil Smith,and joining me, as always, is
your other co-host, jamesJohnson, and Jay back here with
it after a, I'll say, anunplanned week off, because we
were expecting something tohappen.
And here we are on the afternoonof November 27th and that thing

(01:31):
has not happened.
So we're going to discuss,maybe, why that didn't happen, a
unfortunate historical loss tothe Detroit Lions.
We'll briefly discuss that.
We're going to sprinkle inmaybe some good news there here
in this episode, but also justkind of try to talk about, like,
what is going on or the lack ofthings that are going on, I

(01:52):
guess I should say, within theorganization, and also look
ahead, because, hey, you know,it's the end of November, almost
early December, and we're, ofcourse, discussing the NFL draft
.
So that is where we shine asoffseason champions, repeat,
offseason champions.
It looks like we're heading tohere in this upcoming offseason

(02:13):
but, jay, going to be back herewith you.
I'm excited to hang out withyou and the fam for Thanksgiving
.
Hope you and everybodylistening had a good
Thanksgiving or is about to havea good Thanksgiving as well.
But regardless, man, I would bea lot more thankful if the
Jacksonville Jaguars were anygood at football this year.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, you said it, man, I wish they were as well.
But, yeah, happy Thanksgivingto everybody first and foremost,
and we should have this episodeout around the time of
Thanksgiving or maybe a littlebit after.
But nonetheless, happyThanksgiving to everybody and,
yeah, absolutely thankful to bein the booth with you one more

(02:52):
time and us to continue this.
It would be great, as you said,if JR Parks could just provide
us some kind of good news, somekind of ray of hope, right
Something, us some kind of goodnews, some kind of ray of hope,
right, something.
But maybe that's coming downthe road, so maybe our Christmas
wishes will be fulfilled, moreso than our Thanksgiving wishes.

(03:13):
We'll see in time, we'll tell.
But yeah, as you said, man, wewere kind of awaiting some news
in terms of you know and this isnot us getting insider
information or anything but justawaiting some news of you know
this is not us getting insiderinformation or anything, but
just awaiting some news of youknow somebody getting fired,
whether it was Doug or press orTrent Baalke, or all three or
two of the three, or one of thethree, you know something like

(03:35):
that or maybe even Ryan Nielsenyou could throw his name in
there because the defense hasbeen terrible as well.
But we didn't get that news andthat's just the journalism
world for you, right?
Like we as podcas.
But we didn't get that news,and that's just the journalism
world for you, right?
Like we as podcasters, we kindof just have to adapt and go
with the flow of the news flow,right?
I'll never forget when we wererecording a podcast and Jalen
Ramsey asked for a trade as wewere recording the podcast.

(03:58):
So that's just kind of theworld we live in as podcasters.
But nonetheless, man, I can'twait to talk about the subjects,
the topics at hand that we'lldiscuss and, as always, you all
know where to find us atsportsgrind underscore done.
At feel the Filipino, at TDJaguars pod and touchdown

(04:20):
Jaguars podcast dot com for ourofficial official site, which
you can find archived episodesand written content.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
So yeah, man, I'm ready to get to it, man yeah, as
everything jay mentioned is inthe link tree link in the show
notes of this episode.
You'll also find that link tocontinue using that promo code
touchdown jaguars uh, saveyourself 20 on seakeek on your
first purchase.
Maybe don't see a Jaguar game,go do something else.
Maybe go see the Orlando Magicthey're playing pretty well Some

(04:49):
comedy shows coming throughJacksonville, maybe something
other than the Jaguars.
But hey, you know, whatever aslong as you use that promo code,
we very much appreciate it.
But before we get into some ofmaybe the negative news, jay,
let's start on somethingpositive here, as fred taylor
has been named a semi-finalistfor the 2025 hall of fame class.
Perhaps this is the year as hewas announced as one of the 25

(05:12):
modern era semi-finalists.
This would be the sixthconsecutive class in which
taylor has been named asemi-finalist and, of course, he
advanced the round of 15 modernera finalist for the first time
last year.
Some of the other nominees areColts wide receiver Reggie Wayne
, former Rams and one-timeJaguar Torrey Holtz.

(05:33):
Dallas Cowboys safety DarrenWoodson.
Those are some of the namesthat you see here.
Within Fred Taylor's class, his11,695 career rushing yards, of
which 1,299 were compiled withthe Patriots between 2009 and
2010,.
Are 17th most in league history.

(05:54):
Every eligible running backahead of Fred Taylor on the list
is a Pro Football Hall of Famer.
So, jay we've talked about thisin the past Maybe his work with
Ryan Clark and the pivot willeventually help his case in
getting in.
But what do we think?
Because obviously we had towait a very long time, much

(06:16):
longer than we should have hadto wait for Tony Buscelli.
What do we think about Fred'scase here this season?
Some of the other names you seeon here Luke Keekly, first-time
semifinalist, eli Manning,antonio Gates, anquan Boldin,
jared Allen, steve Smith, sr.
So definitely some notablenames from our day Boy.

(06:37):
Talk about making us feel old,right, some of these names on
this list.
But what do you think about hischances this year?
Do you think this will finallybe it or will we still be
waiting?
Uh, maybe another, uh, anotheryear or two before freddie gets
in?

Speaker 2 (06:54):
um, I'm always amongst the skeptics when it
comes to getting into the profootball hall of fame, for the
simple fact of how long it tookbocelli to get in, which you
mentioned.
Now, as you said, now we're ina different era, though, than
most of that process we enduredwith Bocelli.
He didn't have a podcast tobolster his name into the

(07:14):
conversation.
Now, look, he does work for theJaguars and you know he is on
their weekly Jaguars weekly showon Monday.
But that's kind of differentfrom the pivot.
Like the pivot is somethingthat like they travel to
different facilities tointerview people and this is
really one of the best footballpodcasts out there, you know,

(07:37):
like arguably the best, and theyreally they really struck gold
between him and Ryan Clark andChanning as well.
They struck gold with that.
I'm so glad.
Like you know, you hate to seelike breakups, but when they
broke up from Brandon Marshall'spodcast and decided to do their
own thing, I think this waskind of what Fred had in mind.

(07:59):
Was this podcast with Ryan, whois a great speaker and also is
on ESPN?
Is this podcast with Ryan,who's a great speaker and also
is on ESPN, and sometimes youeven, I think once we seen him
pop up on first tape.
You know, one time you knowRyan would bring him in on first
take, or you know, put a wordin for him on first take, and I
think that does help him morethan Bocelli.
But I'm still a skeptic justbecause of how long it took

(08:20):
Bocelli to get in.
But look, as you said, man, whenyou look at the top 17 rushers,
well, there is one I'm thinkingthat isn't in there.
That's Frank Gore, because he'skind of younger than everybody
else, but he'll be in thereeventually too.
But yeah, aside from him andFrank Gore, and I think for a

(08:41):
little while maybe Franco Harriswasn't in there.
Rip, I know we don't like theSteelers here, but a great
running back, but for a littlewhile I think Franco Harris was
one of those top 15 rushers thatdidn't get in until a few years
back.
Maybe quote me if I'm wrong onthat field, We'll have to
research it.
But he's now, at the very least, he's now in there searching.

(09:07):
But he, he's now, at the veryleast he's now in there.
And um, yeah, man, like it'stime for Fred to get in.
Whether you know, I believe hewill or not, it's definitely
time for him to get in and gethis due.
He's a guy that, if it was up tome and you, we we do everything
in our power to make a case forhim to that committee, right?
I mean, you look at what he'sdone in terms of I once made a

(09:28):
USA Today article of the top Ithink it was about the top 15 or
20 Jaguars to ever play rightand Fred Taylor was at the top
of it.
It was a listicle article andthe reason for that was because,
to me, fred played in an erawhere it was very difficult to
play running back.
I know a lot of people throwtheir injuries out there and

(09:48):
this, that and the other, butFred Taylor played in the league
at a time when it was realdifficult and it wasn't a
running back by committee thingwhen he first came into the
league, right.
So you know you're dealing withall of the stuff like the kind
of hits that they were taking inand the kind of things they
were doing.
Then we'd almost like cringe atit or pass out looking at it in

(10:10):
this day and age.
And then, of course, the ruleshave changed over time, so it's
not as much of a context as itwas.
But yeah, man, like if you go tothe beginning part of his, you
know his heyday, you know whenhe was a rookie and his years
under Coughlin, his years underJack Del Rio, you look at that
film and you absolutely can't,like people, be astonished that

(10:33):
this man is not a Hall of FameJust looking at that film alone,
you know.
And then when Maurice JonesDrew came into the picture, that
even helped his career evenmore, that kind of prolonged it
his career even more.
That kind of prolonged it andwe saw some good things out of
Fred.
Then too, man, like some of hisbest runs came when MJ was
there because he was fresh andthat was kind of the new thing.
I know you remember that back inthe day feel like it started

(10:55):
with one team and then everybodyelse was like maybe we should
start keeping our running backsfresh, right, you remember the
Cowboys had uh, they had likethree guys.
It was Felix Jones and I thinkLord bless his soul Marion
Barber and a few others, andthen you know, every team had
one, you know a one to punchbasically is what I'm saying.
So, yeah, like Fred, the end ofFred's career was kind of

(11:18):
phenomenal too and you could usesome of that to make a case for
him as well.
Man, I just hope the man getsin there.
But I will be skeptical.
And to the voters startrespecting jazzville like they
should in terms of, at least interms of the old school jab wars
and not the modern jab war yeah, I agree, it is unfortunate.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Um, you know you kind of hope that we have turned a
little bit of a page withbaselli getting in, but yeah, I
mean, but all those things youmentioned as far as him being on
national media, him being frontand center quite a bit, you
know you hope that that willmake a difference, but you know
that remains to be seen.
He certainly belongs in andwill continue to bang the drum

(11:59):
for Fred's time in that goldjacket.
Listen to some of these othernames Jay, again, just feeling
so old.
Hines Ward he's a nine-timesemifinalist, but Ricky Waters,
marshall Yonda is a first-timesemifinalist.
I mentioned Eli Manning andLuke Kuechly.
Let's see if there are anyother first-time semifinalists.

(12:20):
I think that's it.
But again, some of these namesAnquan Bolden, willie Anderson
Come semi-finalists.
I think that's it.
But again, some of these namesanquan bolden, willie anderson,
come on.
Robert mathis like geez, itreally feels like we were just
watching this.
Uh, these guys play terrellsugs, our first time
semi-finalists.
Like man, it just goes by soquickly.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
But yeah, go ahead, jay yeah, I mean, it speaks
volumes that we're getting old.
But, man, the good thing in allof that is man.
When you reflect and when youmention all of those names, man,
we really watched a great eraof football.
It's crazy man.
Luke Keeley was as good of alinebacker as you'll find.

(12:59):
Steve Smith, not only did hetalk the talk but he backed it
up.
Man, like all of this stuff.
You see how kids make thesevideos all the time and put them
on Twitter or tick.
Well, they put them on TikTokof their favorite receiver.
You know, like Brian Thomas Jror whatever the case may be Like
, if they were doing that whenSteve Smith was a receiver, you

(13:22):
could really make those kind ofTikToks off of single games from
Steve Smith not just his career, but single games.
You can make a whole TikTokhighlight video of some of his
single games.
Man, I'll never forget.
You know he had a run in with us, right, phil Jaguars fans,
between him and Jalen Ramsey whothey're cool now, by the way

(13:42):
but him and Jalen Ramsey man,that was an epic way.
But him and Jalen Ramsey man,that was a epic showdown right
there between those two andSteve Smith.
You know he was older at thattime but still putting up good
numbers, respectable numbers.
You know he went with Carolina,he was with the Ravens, but
still a respectable receiverthat you had to be mindful of.
But yeah, man, like it.
That just shed some light on,like, what kind of era of

(14:05):
football we watch, man.
I'm glad we were a part of it,man, because, um, some of that
stuff that we saw from the guysyou mentioned won't be
duplicated, I don't think atleast question for you.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
We're kind of deviating from, uh, this episode
.
But I mean, let's be honest,the the jaguars are bad, so
let's, let's put this off aslong as we can.
I don't know how much you'vebeen keeping up with this Cam
Newton stuff, about him kind ofbeing.
It seems like he's a little bitlike exiled from the team when
it comes to the Panthers.
When you see some of histeammates on here, you know,
steve Smith, sr Luke Keekleyhave you been keeping up with

(14:47):
any of that?
And also, do you think Camnewton is a?
I don't know that he gets intothe hall of fame, but I feel
like he would be a guy thatcould get to this round of
players.
You know, I'm saying like modernday guys, what do you think
about that?
Uh, just to kind of get youryour thoughts on it, and also
just how, uh, you know we'vetalked about how tepper is
probably the worst owner in thenfl and him just kind of not
being involved with the panthersorganization, because I feel
like that's just a real bummer.
You know, like how much hemeant to not only the Panthers

(15:08):
but also just what he meant tothe league.
It seems like people haveforgotten about Cam Newton a lot
quicker than they should have,and he shouldn't have been
forgotten at all, in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Oh, it disgusts me, man.
I mean because you know I'm aride for any Georgia native
quarterback especially.
You know everybody heard merant for Trevor Lawrence and you
know Cam Noon's up there withhim.
You know what I'm saying Fromthe Atlanta area and the fact
that he doesn't get the respectthat he deserves.
Now, hall of Famer, I don'tknow about like Hall of Famer

(15:42):
level, but he still is.
Like I would say he's definitelyinfluential and iconic to the
game for sure, like a lot ofthese kids that we're seeing
today are kind of, you know,based off of Cam Newton, you
know, and they might not even.
The crazy part is they mightnot even know it, because I can
remember there were times, man,right, where I was watching Cam

(16:05):
Newton back in the day and thelinebackers that were hitting
Cam Newton were smaller than him, right, like it was crazy man,
like I don't think we ever seenanything like it at that time.
Nobody that could move like hecould, nobody that had the arm
strength that he could.
And I honestly think, like whatis he?
What?
He's our age, he's like what?
35 something.
I honestly think Cam Newtonshould be still in the lead

(16:28):
right now.
Obviously, the further alongthe way that you're from the
game, your skills kind ofdeteriorate.
He's been away from the game awhile, but I don't think he
should have been away from thegame in the first place.
Like you look at all of thesequarterbacks, bro, like, and you
can't tell me it wasn't a placetwo to three years ago, or even
you can argue maybe now, if hestill has his skill set, that

(16:49):
you can't argue that it's not aplace for cam newton on
somebody's team, at least as astarter.
You know what I'm saying.
So it really frustrates me thathe doesn't get the love and
respect he deserves.
Now I mean, I will say that ourstate, the state of Georgia,
certainly, like Cam Newton, cando no wrong to us.

(17:10):
Like, if you say somethingwrong about Cam Newton in
Georgia you might get swung at,but unfortunately it's not like
that for just the generalculture of football.
You know he is forgotten andyou know, you see, like I'll
never forget.
Do you remember that YouTubevideo of the kids disrespecting
Cam Newton on the sideline?

(17:31):
That junk broke my heart, bro,because it's like Cam man.
He really put Black Quarter,but not he wasn't the sole
person to do it.
You know you got to go back asfar as like guys like Warren
Moon right and guys like thatbut Cam Newton really did create
this culture for Blackquarterbacks and a standard for

(17:51):
Black quarterbacks.
That I think goes unnoticed andyou can tell people, especially
from this generation, didn'twatch his career as much as they
should, and a lot of theseyoung cats I think they need to
go back and watch him because hewas a phenomenal player.
A lot of these young cats Ithink they need to go back and
watch him because he was aphenomenal player and I think
once people start to do that,he'll start to get the respect

(18:11):
that he deserves.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, and granted, you know I haven't listened to
the entirety of like his podcastor anything like that, just
seen like clips here and thereand you can just kind of see it
in his eyes, you can hear it inhis voice that you know he would
love to be involved with thePanthers specifically.
You know his voice that you knowhe would love to be involved
with the Panthers specifically.
You know, as an organization weobviously follow them pretty
closely, with them being oursister franchise essentially.
And, yeah, I absolutely agreewith you, he should given, like,

(18:32):
did y'all watch Tommy DeVitoplay quarterback over the
weekend?
Like you're telling me CamNewton couldn't do at least that
we have such poor quarterbackplay across the league and Cam
Newton can't get a spot.
So, um, yeah, I just wanted toget your two cents on that
because you know always been abig fan of his that it's a
bummer that they couldn't capoff that magical season with a

(18:54):
super bowl, especially whenyou're talking about guys like
not only him but also LukeKeekley.
Yeah, you know, just one ofthose guys, again, like a lot of
these guys we've just mentionedhere on this list as far as cam
newton goes, that will uh willalways be a uh kind of one of
those pillars when you talkabout our nfl fandom in those
early days.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Go ahead, jay yeah, and you know, like he's kind of
one of those guys that fits themold of fred taylor.
I don't think it'll his podcastwill help him like get like a
hall of fame look or anythinglike crazy like that, but it
will help the culture and itwould well.
It will help um youngergenerations to go back and look

(19:32):
at his stuff and like I think ifa lot of younger people 20 and
younger, 22, 25 and younger goback and look at cam newton man,
he'd be one of these guys wewere talking about actually
earlier when I was saying likehow the kids like to make TikTok
videos of their favorite Peoplewould actually be making
TikToks of like Cam Newton, likeback in the day.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Oh, I didn't know Cam Newton had this in his bag,
stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah, like all of a sudden acting like they knew Cam
Newton was like this greatness,right, cam Newton was in his
bag in this game against X, yand Z or Cam Newton was a beast
man, like.
I think like his podcast wasreally helping with that.
And I actually like the podcast.
I've only seen a few episodesof it but I like it.

(20:18):
I like how vocal and open he isand I also love or hate Stephen
A Smith and love or hate CamNewton as well.
I love that Stephen A Smith gaveCam Newton a platform to come
on first take too.
I think that'll help him aswell, because he's actually, if
you watch him on first take andI know first take can be hard to
watch but he's actually good atwhat he does in terms of the

(20:41):
podcast and format and thatfirst take, that first take
argument or debate type offormat and type of platform he's
actually good for it, man.
And you know he has the crazy,crazy fashion sense to go with
it too, man, that'll like alwaysmake him stick out.
So you know, I am happy that henow at least has a platform to

(21:02):
get his stuff off and put morepeople on game.
In terms of you know him as aperson and what he did back in
the day as a player.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah, I agree.
So appreciate y'all letting usgo on this Cam Newton tangent
here.
But the moral of the story isput Fred Taylor in, get him into
the hall, get him that goldjacket.
But, jay, let's go ahead andtalk about what we have been
putting off, and that is, ofcourse, the Jaguars historical
loss to the Detroit Lions, fiftytwo to six.
Their previous biggest lossalso came against the Detroit

(21:35):
Lions in their debut season,where they lost 44 to nothing.
Three decades ago is how longago that happened, jay.
We watch bits and pieces of thishere.
I have not gotten to watch thefull film.
I was in Orlando for mydaughter's birthday, so I was
just keeping track and honestlyhoping for an outcome like this

(21:55):
because of what was hopefullygoing to happen after the game
in the coming days, which hasnot happened yet, which we'll
discuss here in just a moment.
But you know, I did watch alittle bit of the film.
In the beginning they jumpedout to a commanding 3-0 lead and
then the Lions proceeded tooutscore them 52-3 after going

(22:18):
up 3-0.
So the Lions probably the bestteam in football right now.
I think that you have to lookat them as the favorites, right
up there With the Kansas CityChiefs, although the Eagles man
they could be dangerous you knowlike half of the Eagles roster
being a Georgia fan.
So they're starting to putthings together.
But what did you see here in theloss?

(22:38):
I mean, there really wasn't toomuch to write home about.
I don't know if you have thebox score up there in front of
you, but they did not look good.
It's a team that all season hasjust looked lost and
unfortunately hasn't been ableto put anything together.
And for the second week in arow, trevor Lawrence again in no
snaps, showing how valuable heis to this team.

(22:59):
So yeah, jay, what were yourtakeaways after this, this
blowout loss to the Lions?

Speaker 2 (23:06):
yeah, you mentioned the first thing that I was going
to mention there, um, aboutTrevor Lawrence man, one thing
that I did notice.
Like you said, I didn't see thewhole game, but, um, one thing
that I did notice is, um, youknow what a difference Trevor
Lawrence makes for this alreadynot great offense in terms of
the schematics of it.
Um, a lot of what I noticed isMatt Jones man.

(23:29):
When Matt Jones puts the ballin the air, the receivers don't
have a lot of opportunity to getyardage after the catch.
It was even one I saw where hethrew it to Evan Ingram and as
soon as Evan Ingram caught it,he got tattooed by Brian Branch,

(23:49):
who we were really high on andwanted to be a Jacksonville
Jaguar.
That's neither here nor there,but he got flat out tattooed by
Brian Branch.
And I remember watching thatplay and saying, like, you don't
really see that stuff withTrevor Lawrence, right, you
don't see our receivers takingthis kind of abuse that they
were taking with Trevor Lawrence.

(24:10):
And another thing you see isTrevor Lawrence puts them in
position where they can catchthe ball and do some damage
after the catch, especiallyBrian Thomas, right, we've seen
it plenty of times where BrianThomas has been streaking right
down the field, can catch it instride, not even break his
stride, can keep his speed at.
You know, whatever it is, heruns 22, 23 miles an hour, an

(24:30):
hour.
You know, it's so high up thereit's hard to track.
We need next gen stats to giveus a free account.
But, um, you know, he'll hitpeople in stride.
Or even when he's hittingpeople on lateral routes, when,
uh, trevor is hitting people onlateral routes, he's hitting
them in position to keep runningafter the catch or protect
themselves right, get down andnot like get blasted by a

(24:51):
linebacker or something likethat.
So that was a standout thingthat I saw there.
And then just the other thingwas just and we kind of say this
a lot, but it was really thecase in this game with the
fundamentals defensively.
I just saw a lot of terriblefundamentals defensively.
Man, like people tackling andnot wrapping up and bringing

(25:13):
their feet with them.
And you know Jameer Gibbs willrun for another five, six yards
and everybody in a moment knowthat you have to tackle Jameer
Gibbs with the proper techniqueor you're going to be in for a
long day, like it's football 101.
If you don't wrap up and bringyour feet.
He's going to keep going, maybeeven embarrass you even more
and take it for a touchdown.

(25:33):
I saw stuff like that.
I saw players not playing withtheir eyes right and not finding
the ball carrier.
I saw all of these out of whackmechanics, no communication,
and it just made me kind of justdisgusted in terms of you know,
this coaching staff reallypulled the wool over our eyes

(25:59):
Like they feel this coachingstaff is not doing this team any
justice and it feels like thiscoaching staff is real
fraudulent man and I've said itbefore with Doug and you know
his crew.
With Doug and you know his crew, what carried them that I
didn't realize and that we nowrealize is that you know they
had a phenomenal GM there.
He no longer has that.
With Trent Baalke and hisshowing, and you know Ryan

(26:20):
Nielsen pulled the wool over oureyes.
We were talking good thingsabout Ryan Nielsen at the
beginning of this year too, phil, I'm guilty of it, like we'll
admit we're wrong.
I was one of the people thatsaid it.
We see him in training campgiving people all the
instructions in these technicaldrills.
I know you can remember the onewith Trayvon Walker where he's

(26:42):
helping Trayvon Walker work onhis punch and force with the
punch.
We're sitting there looking atthat video thinking, yeah, man,
he's going to have these guysright.
And here we are.
Nobody can tackle, nobody canplay with their eyes, they're
not communicating, they can'tseem to get out of a rut, they
don't have the mental ability torecover from what happened in
Miami.
It's like ever since then it'sjust been straight downhill and

(27:06):
it just left me with a bad tastein my mouth and just calling
that coaching staff what it isand it's a fraudulent coaching
staff, man.
And I hate to say that aboutpeople that work hard.
But they really fooled us, man,they really did.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yeah, and listen, like blowouts happen in the
league.
You know that's just a thingthat is inevitable when it comes
to the NFL.
But in the way that the leagueyou know that that's just a
thing that is inevitable when itcomes to the NFL.
But in the way that the leagueis built I mean the Titans just
beat the Texans right I mean,granted, listen, a whole
conversation needs to be hadabout CJ Stroud and the Houston
Texans.
That a lot of people aren'tready for.

(27:43):
But we're not gonna.
You know, we're not gonna touchon that here.
As you know, we'll just comeoff as homers.
But in a league where parity issupposed to be a thing, you
shouldn't be losing by 46.
And yeah, you're absolutelyright.
We threw a lot of praise on RyanNielsen, as did his players.
Trayvon Walker was out there intraining camp and getting

(28:03):
prepped for the season, talkingabout how excited they were to
work under this scheme and underthis defensive coordinator, and
it just hasn't happened.
I mean, when you have two wetalked about this, I think, in
the episodes about whyJacksonville should be a very
appealing place when you havetwo bookends Trayvon Walker and

(28:26):
Josh Hines-Allen when you havethose two guys, when you bring
in a guy like Eric Armstead.
You know, when you have a guylike Foye, when Ventrell Miller
is still up, is progressing verywell, you know.
You guys know how we feel aboutTyson Campbell.
Obviously, andre Sisco has beena huge disappointment, but when
there's that type of talentlike you shouldn't be getting
blown out by 46 points.

(28:47):
Bare minimum.
You should be able to make itsomewhat competitive.
Now, I never thought we weregoing to win this game, but, man
, 46 points is unacceptable,which makes the non-decision all
the more baffling as to whathas not happened yet.
So I mean, it was all set upfor you, right?

(29:07):
We circled this date weeks agoas this would be the perfect
time.
This is when teams always do ityou head into the bye week, you
clean house and then you gofrom there and you reevaluate.
I'm not sure what the thoughtprocess is here.
Jay, we were actually at me andEric, my co-host for the
Way4Podcast, my other project.

(29:28):
We were down at a sip andstroll event in downtown
Jacksonville and it was calledPearls of the Orient.
It was put together by JaxFilipino.
Shout out to them Great time.
But across the river is ShadKhan's boat and I'm thinking,
man, I hope they're having theseconversations right now and I
just wanted to yell out and belike, hey, why haven't any of

(29:51):
these changes been made yet?
And here we are again, the daybefore Thanksgiving, and Doug
Peterson, trent Bulkey, allthese guys, press Taylor,
they're all still sitting intheir offices preparing for
Houston and we're over herescratching our heads.
I think there was a.

(30:11):
I can't remember who put outthe article.
I think, jay, you said it wasRapoport about how changes are
inevitable.
But to make changes right nowwould just be like shuffling
deck chairs in the Titanic, soit doesn't really have too much
impact right now.
What do you think?
Do you think it makes anydifference whether they were
they fired, doug, you know, youknow, a week ago, the day after

(30:33):
a blowout, or the day after theseason, and same thing with
trent bulky doesn't make anydifference.
Or do you think, shod?

Speaker 2 (30:39):
well, it seems like he's just willing to kind of
wait this thing out and make thechanges when the season is all
said and done well you, let metouch on something that you
touched on that was really on mymind literally when you said it
, right, and it's the wholething about shod khan's yacht.
And I want to get some off mychest with shod khan's yacht man
.
It looks really nuts for him tohave his boat parked in the st

(31:05):
john's river, a few blocks fromthe facility, and the Jaguars
continue to do the stuff thatthey do, especially after that
blowout loss put out a historicloss.
And you're just blocks awayfrom the facility, right, not
doing nothing, just havingcaviar with Tony on the pole.

(31:25):
Am I the only one that's notlooking at it and viewing that
as just insane?
Man Like you're just on avacation chilling on the St
John's River and your team isputting up just just terrible,
terrible showings on the field,the worst of the team's history,

(31:45):
like the team's history, notjust shot history, but we're
talking about, since anybodyelse has owned the Jacksonville
Jaguars man.
So that is frustrating man,because it's like, well, what
are you doing, man?
I mean now look, that's not tosay that the changes won't come
and that changes aren't down theroad, but that kind of just

(32:07):
irks me, man, just knowing thathe's right there, just blocks
away, just letting them dowhatever there at the road.
But that kind of just irks me,man, just knowing that he's
right there, just blocks away,just letting them do whatever
there at the facility.
Who knows what kind ofdiscussions were had during the
bye weekend this, that and theother.
But I do still think thatchanges are coming.
Because of the rap sheet article, it sounds like the sources and

(32:28):
the people in the building andthat's another thing that's
awkward about it is shot, keepsletting it go on longer, and
people are walking around thebuilding like ready for this to
be over, like they're literallyfrom that article.
It kind of felt like they'resaying come, take us out of our
misery, go ahead and fire us,man, let us go.
You know, that's what it feltlike to me personally.

(32:50):
I can't speak for you oranybody else, but yeah, it
sounds like they're ready to be,to have that cloud no longer
hanging over their heads anymore, and they're status pending
with the team.
Everybody know they're goingand they should be going, you
know I don't know if Shaw has itin his mind, because you know
he isn't a great owner when itcomes to football operations to.

(33:12):
You know, wait and see ifthings can get better.
But that being said, man, he'shoping for something that's not
going to happen.
We just talked about how thatdefense look.
Fundamentally, this team's notcrawling themselves out of a
hole.
You can go ahead and just killthat false hope right now and
start firing somebody.
Now.

(33:33):
I kind of understand the aspectof not firing Doug because of
how the team is structured as acoaching staff.
If you fire Doug and press,who's going to call plays?
You know what I'm saying and Iknow that irks people and it

(33:56):
simply shouldn't be that way.
It should be somebody who's asecondary play caller and I
think that used to be Jim BobCooter, who's not there anymore.
But you know, most teams shouldhave that backup play caller in
mind because you just never knowwhat'll happen, right, you know
you never know when change willcome and you know maybe a
family emergency pops off orsomething where your OC has to
take care of something or youryour OC is, you know, has some

(34:18):
kind of thing that would justkeep them from being able to be
at the facility for a game orsomething right like that.
You need to have a backup planand they clearly don't right,
they clearly don't trust in thequarterback coach, mike McCoy,
to make the play calls, which isinsane.
He was a former head coach.
It's like what do you do then?
Right, I mean, obviously youknow you probably helped Trevor

(34:41):
Lawrence with his mechanics andall of that, but, um, for you to
not have the ability to playcall plays is insane.
So I understand that aspect,though, of him not firing Dubb
and leaving Trevor Lawrence inlimbo with the play calling
situation.
But at the very least, man, youcould fire Trent Baalke.

(35:02):
Here is why they talked aboutthis all the offseason last
offseason, not just offseasonlast offseason how they wanted
to bolster the front office.
They said they wanted to get anEVP.
They didn't do that.
That kind of shows theincompetence Right, and they
just went ahead and just hiredan assistant general manager
instead, which was Ethan Waugh.
In doing that, you havesomebody in-house where you know

(35:27):
for this this next month and ahalf and then December, ethan
Waugh can handle things.
If you fire Trent Baalke fromtoday all the way until the end
of the season, like what ofsignificance will he have to do
between then and now?
I know we're looking at havingthe first overall pick, but
nobody's going to be callingasking about the first overall

(35:48):
pick yet because it's not set instone.
Like literally all the GM hasto do at this point and this is
not me like kind ofunderestimating what a GM does,
but really right now all thereis left for the GM to do for the
Jacksonville Jaguars is toscout and that's pretty much it.
Ethan Wall can do that.
He can send people on scoutingassignments.

(36:10):
In terms of the regional scoutsand all of that stuff, he could
do that.
You don't need Trent in thebuilding at all.
Like, at the very least, getTrent out of there.
That speaks volumes to theother GMs that might be looking
for him to come to Jacksonville.
You know it sends a message tothem and it also cools down the
fan base if you fire and I put atweet out about this field if

(36:32):
you fire.
I think if he fired TrentBaalke and kept Doug, we could
live with Doug and press for therest of the year.
That would really cool the fanbase down and we'll be all right
until January, when you know.
Of course, then you could fire,pressing the whole rest of the
staff and Doug as well.
No-transcript within the nextfew weeks is get at least get

(37:17):
trent out of there I'll be coolif they could do that and into
the rest of the season yeah, Iagree.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
I mean, give the fan base something to rejoice in now
.
I mean shod khan.
We've praised him quite a biton this podcast, like he is not
a unintelligent man.
Right, you don't get to whereyou are by making a bunch of
mistakes and bad decisions, butwhen it comes to the

(37:45):
jacksonville jaguars and thefootball side of things, he has
made a lot of mistakes and itwould just be one of the easiest
things to do now for him to saywe're relieving Trent of his
duties, we thank him for histime and for his efforts here
with Jacksonville.
We're going to look forward tomoving in a new direction come
the end of the season.

(38:07):
Like you said, what is there forhim to do right now?
I certainly don't want himgoing to him and his staff going
to, you know, colorado Buffalogames and scouting Travis Hunter
.
I don't want his team doingthat.
I don't want him having hiseyes on whoever that top
prospect.
Maybe we're going to talk aboutthe draft here in just a moment
, but, yeah, bare minimum.
Yeah, that's a great point thatyou can get rid of Trent with

(38:30):
very little impact to the team,if any, right now.
So the fact that that hasn'thappened yet I think is why
people are a little concerned.
Have you seen anything aboutthat report where maybe he's in
Shad Khan's ear telling him thathe can deliver Bill Belichick?
Do you think there's anycredence to that happening?

Speaker 2 (38:52):
well, you know, diana Rossini came out to kind of
like shed some light on that andshe said that and I think Diana
used to cover a quote.
You might can research this,but I think she used to cover
the Patriots at one point intime.
But, uh, diana Rossini she'snow with the Patriots at one
point in time, but Diana Rossini, she's now with the Athletic.
I think she used to be withESPN, because I remember seeing

(39:13):
her on TV a lot, but she cameout to say that if they brought
in Belichick that he wouldn't beinterested in keeping Trent.
I mean, and how realistic isthat?
If Trent believes BillBelichick wants to keep him with
the ego that Bill Belichick hasand the ego that Trent has,

(39:34):
then Trent doesn't belongnowhere near a football
organization if he honestlybelieves their egos could
coexist.
I know, you know Trent did workwith Belichick some many, many
years ago, but still it makesabsolutely no sense for him to
believe that his ego andBelichick egos could coexist.

(39:55):
It was one more thing that Ialso wanted to mention.
To circle back around, a shotCon firing Trent Baalke or
firing somebody is.
You know, as I say, I feel Conis just avoiding the inevitable,
and I tweeted about this aswell.
From the perspective of this,this is why Shaq Khan can't keep

(40:17):
anybody and he has to firepeople.
In my opinion, obviously, it'shis team.
He can do what he wants, butthis is why he has to fire both
Balki and Press Taylor, and it'sbecause of what he did in the
beginning of the offseason.
You know how the old saying goes.
You know you shouldn't havesaid that.
You stuck your foot in yourmouth, right?

(40:38):
That old saying that's beenaround for long before me and
you were born.
Well, sean Cullen did exactlythat when he stood up at that
podium and put in an episode ofthe hunt for many millions of
people to see, put hisexpectations out there on video
by him saying hey, you know,this is the best team we've ever

(41:00):
had and my expectations arehigh.
The moment he did that, he put alot on the organization's plate
, a lot on the front officeplate, a lot on the players
plate, a lot on the coaches, thecoaching staff plate, and the
importance of that is when yousay something like that, phil,
and the results are what theyare.

(41:21):
You know we we lost arguablythe worst.
You know we had the worst lossin history and the rest of the
results we've seen this yearworst, you know, we had the
worst loss in history and therest of the results we've seen
this year.
For you to say that see thoseresults and not do anything
about it, nobody's going to takeyou at your word anymore as an
owner, not your current regime,not any people coming looking to

(41:42):
come in and be your GM of thefuture as well, because you're
out here spewing stuff thatyou're not going to hold to.
Basically, you know you're not.
You basically not holdinganybody accountable, so you
can't say that and then, at thesame time, not fire anybody,
like he needs to fire everybodyafter saying that.
So, in my opinion, like I thinkwhen he said that and them not

(42:03):
delivering, they really havethem looking real bad and I
think that's gonna.
You know you owners have an egotoo.
I think that's going to.
You know owners have an ego too.
I think that's going to hurthis ego and I believe that
that's why he ultimately has tofire Trent and Doug is because
they they really got him outhere looking crazy.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
Yeah, well, speaking of crazy, we have to discuss
this Florida Times Union articlethat came up yesterday and
listen, you know, working withyou all these years and also
just very briefly dipping mytoes into it.
We know that journalism is verydifficult.
We know that these people putin a lot of work.
We talk about a lot of.

(42:40):
You know, a lot of the peoplethat we admire obviously are
very hard-working journalists.
So this is no personal shot totim walters.
I've never heard of him.
He probably is some sort ofcontributor with usa today.
Slash the times union.
Um, I did look up.
You know he does have a fewother nfl and jaguar related
articles, but the title of thisarticle is obviously what

(43:03):
brought a lot of attention topeople, uh, over on social media
.
The jacksonville jaguar shouldnot fire doug peterson.
No, really, here's why, and youknow he brings up a lot of
things such as you know it's notlike doug peterson has
forgotten how to coach brings uphow you know the team was eight
and three at one point untiluntil he says a the Christian

(43:25):
Kirk injury seemed to signal thedeath knell, when that's not
true.
It was the Trevor Lawrenceankle injury, even though he
played through it, but that isneither here nor there.
But you know mentions that hedeserves some patience and
deserves an opportunity tocontinue coaching the team with

(43:45):
a new general manager.
Look, we're not going to.
We've talked about dougpeterson's super bowl win with
philadelphia.
We've discussed how he wasobviously greatly, greatly
greatly benefited from thestrong team building that exists

(44:09):
within Philadelphia.
I mean, look at them now again.
Earlier in the year they starttwo and two.
People are wondering what thehell is going on.
And now they're eight and twoProbably one of the best teams
in the NFL.
But here it is.
Yeah, as I say to the star,it's not like he's forgotten how
to coach.
He's still a very good coach,is he?
But he needs upgrades allaround him.
He's not going to make thoseupgrades because he again

(44:36):
carries press Taylor around in ababy Bjorn and coddles him
everywhere he goes.
A good head coaches are hard tofind.
Yes, true, hiring a 72-year-old,bill Belichick isn't the answer
Correct.
Luring Detroit Lions offensivecoordinator Ben Johnson is
unlikely.
Don't agree with him there.
There will be much moreattractive jobs for him to take

(44:57):
out there.
Also, an argument can be madeand you did make that argument
last week or a couple weeks ago.
Hiring someone unproven isn'twhat this team needs at this
moment in time.
Unless the Jags are dead set onpushing all their chips in for
Mike Rabel, they should cleanhouse.
But keep Doug Peterson.
He brings a much-neededstability.
He shouldn't be judged by thisone season.

(45:20):
He should get some leewaybecause of some unfortunate
injuries to key players and hehasn't forgotten how to coach.
Um, this obviously was doingnumbers in our group chat last
night, so I want to discuss ithere.
On the episode j, it'sobviously garnered quite the
response, uh, amongst the jaguarfan base.

(45:42):
So so again, nothing personalto Tim Walters.
Probably a very oh, tim Walters, sorry, nothing personal to Tim
Walters.
Probably a fine and decenthuman being.
But what the hell is he talkingabout here, jay?

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Tim on a journalist, a journalist tip man.
You could have saved that, tim.
You're probably the veteranjournalist over me, but from a
younger journalist to ajournalist, a veteran one, you
could have really saved that one, because it did come off as if
he hasn't watched the Jaguarsgame.
First and foremost, right thestability part.

(46:20):
Right, really, has he broughtstability?
I?
I mean, mike Caldwell was atrain wreck at defensive
coordinator.
We had to change coordinatorsafter two years at the defensive
coordinator position, um, andthen that's when we bring in an
even worse defensive coordinatorthan Ryan Nielsen.
We didn't even know it couldget worse, right, phil?

(46:41):
When we fired Mike Caldwell itwas like how, how much worse can
it get?
And the crazy part about it waswith with Caldwell it sounded
like the players kind of werecalling him out where, like a
lot of in practice, they kind oflike had to figure stuff out
their own under Caldwell.
I think it was an article thatcame out about that and, um,

(47:02):
yeah, that just kind of likeraised a lot of questions.
And then we went to Nielsen andit got worse.
Man, did God prove us wrong onthat about?
Hey, it can't get worse.
But so the stability part makesno sense, right?
Also, we lost Jim Bob Cooter tothe Colts I believe it was that
we lost him too.
That's part of what's notstable about the current group

(47:24):
offensively.
That's why press taylor'sprobably struggling.
It's because he doesn't havethat veteran guy with him to
help him.
Because, as we saw, when jimbob hooter was here, we were
just fine as an offense right.
Um, and that was kind of ourargument too with bringing in
frank right remember when we'rehaving that conversation, phil,
bring in frank right, a veteranplay caller who has played in
the NFL, like Doug has played inthe NFL to help a young Press

(47:49):
Taylor right.
Because it baffles me when Isee these articles, I'm going to
veer away from Tim's and go toanother one where they're
listing Press Taylor as a futurehead coach or a coach to watch
type of thing of thing.
It's like, have you seen thisman call plays, right?
Like they put this on NFLnetwork, like as a future coach
to watch or offensive mind towatch or something like that.

(48:12):
But I digress from my point.
Look, tim, what Doug Petersonhas done to Trevor Lawrence's
career is malpractice man likeit.
He really hasn't helped TrevorLawrence like we thought he
should, making him learn fromPress Taylor this long and not
make any changes?
And for all we know, changesstill might not have been made.

(48:33):
I know Doug went out and saidhey, I made some in-house
changes.
Can we really believe that DougWhatever man, what he's done
for Trevor Lawrence's career,he's derailed Trevor Lawrence's
career by by pairing him withPress Taylor for the amount of
time that he has, you know, Ibelieve Trevor Lawrence still

(48:54):
isn't broken and does have anopportunity to be a good
quarterback, but I also dobelieve that Press Taylor has
derailed his projection and andkind of veered him off of his
path a little bit for sure.
So, yeah, this article madeabsolutely no sense, man.
And my last thing is this man,like he mentions that you know

(49:14):
Doug Peterson is a good headcoach, all of this, and you know
you can't find stability.
But what about this, tim?
What if Doug Peterson isn'thead coach material?
He's just a guy that got lucky,got paired up with the Eagles
and Howie Roseman and a good GMthere and overachieved?

(49:34):
What if that's what it is?
What if?
What if Doug Peterson?
I'll put it this way, this isthe easy way to put this, phil
what if Doug Peterson is just areally good offensive
coordinator and nothing more,and I believe that's what he is.
I believe he can go with AndyReid, with the Chiefs, and win a
Super Bowl right now.
But if you made him function onhis own as a head coach, on his

(49:58):
own, I don't believe he'll everbe able to get back to where he
was able to get back to withthe Philadelphia Eagles.
I think that was just somethingthat happened because of the
support and cash he had in termsof Howie Roseman.
So that's the question I raisedwhat if Doug Peterson is at
best, a very good offensivecoordinator and, as we've said,

(50:18):
pulled the wool over our eyes?

Speaker 1 (50:21):
Let me ask you this, just to play into this scenario
with tim's thoughts here sayeverything is relatively the
same right now.
Say the jaguars are two andeight, you know, and um, after
the loss to detroit, dougpeterson had come out and stated
he had finally released orrelieved press taylor.
No, I know it would have to bea firing if.
If he came out and stated hehad finally released or relieved

(50:44):
Press Taylor Now I know itwould have to be a firing If he
came out and said he has firedPress Taylor and released him
from the organization.
Would that make any type ofdifference in terms of what Tim
is saying here, like, do yougive Doug a little bit more time
?
I don't think so.
People can't see, but you'renodding your head.
I agree with you, but do youthink that would make any
difference in giving Doug alittle bit more runway with this

(51:07):
thing?

Speaker 2 (51:08):
For me it wouldn't.
No, it's a little too late forthat, and here's why.
So this is to make a comparisonof it feel, of how good coaches
function and smart coachesfunction.
So this guy that we've beenpraising for a very, very long
time, and Dan Campbell, we justpraise this team because they
beat the brakes off of us in ahistoric win or gave us a

(51:30):
historic loss.
Dan Campbell, in his first yearwith the Detroit Lions he had
Anthony Lynn, was his offensivecoordinator his first year with
the Lions, and it didn't takevery long for Dan Campbell to
realize that year, his firstyear as a head coach, to realize
, hey, something's not right.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
Started one and eight .
Right, I think they started oneand eight, something like that.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Exactly.
Something's not right.
I got to get rid of this guy.
I have to.
I respect him, love what he'sdone for me and all of that good
stuff, but it's not clicking.
It's not clicking for theoffense.
It's not working.
He fired Anthony Lynn withinbefore the season could end his
first season could end and lookhow that turned that franchise

(52:16):
around for the better.
Those are the kind of coachesthat know how to make the right
decisions at the right time andthat turn things around.
And the crazy part about it washe had a guy in ben johnson
waiting in the wings that hadalready been with the lions
organization, you know, foryears before dan campbell came.

(52:36):
By the way, people forget thatpart.
Ben johnson was already therebut he and dan campbell knew
each other because I I wouldknow studying coaching trees.
He and dan campbell knew eachother because I would know
studying coaching trees.
He and Dan Campbell knew eachother from years and years and
years of working together atMiami with the Dolphins.
So Dan Campbell actually cameinto the organization after Ben

(52:57):
Johnson and he saw the potentialin Ben and he saw like how long
Ben had been with the Dolphinsand how long he had been with
the Lions gave him anopportunity of a lifetime, and
Ben Johnson has a little backsense and of course, you know it
helps that they got Jared Goffeventually down the road as well
.
I don't think they started withJared Goff when he first got
there.
When Dan Campbell first gotthere, I think they traded for

(53:19):
him in like year two orsomething.
But you know, I'm just sayingjust to put things into
perspective and compare it.
Right is you have a guy thatwanted to do what was best for
the team and put, you know, theresponsibility of doing what's
best for the team and DanCampbell by firing Anthony Lynn,
while you have Doug Petersonwho selfishly hangs on to Press

(53:42):
Taylor who he believes is his,you know, understudy or protégé,
or whatever the case may be.
When you look at those twodifferent perspectives right
there, that alone speaks volumesas to why Doug Peterson no,
it's a little too late for that.
You should have did that maybelast year.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
You know, maybe I'll give him some some runway if he
did last year, but nah, it's toolate now yeah, I agree, the
time to make that change wouldhave been at the end of last
season, acknowledging yourmistake.
Like you said, dan campbell,it's so frustrating whenever we
play the lions too, or justwatching the lions in general,
because that is who jacksonvilleshould be like.

(54:19):
They had these turnarounds atvery similar times, right with
dan campbell and then bringingdoug peterson in.
Both of them make thepostseason.
Obviously the lions have had alittle bit more success getting
to the nfc championship game.
But you know, with the way thatobviously traven walker, aiden
hutchinson are tied together,you know you're talking about a
former number one overall pickin jared goff.
Now I think you know we wewould agree that talent wise

(54:40):
trevor lawrence is is a betterquarterback than Jared Goff.
But hey, jared Goff's been to aSuper Bowl, he's been to
multiple NFC Championship games,he is a winner and we'll
hopefully see that this year.
I definitely am rooting forthem for the remainder of the
season.
But it's always so frustratingwatching the Lions and seeing
how well they have handledthings, especially when you talk

(55:01):
about a team.
The Lions may be the only otherteam in the league.
I think maybe you could maybethrow the Browns in there, but I
think I mentioned this beforethe Lions are probably the only
other team in the league thathave been managed worse than the
Jaguars prior to the currentregime season.
When you talk about the yearsof ineptitude, mishandling not

(55:24):
only a guy like calvin johnsonbut also barry sanders like
mishandling top I think argumentcan be made top 25 players in
nfl history.
You've had two of them on yourteam and they totally mismanaged
them, and to see how they'vemade that turnaround now, um,
it's disheartening.
Uh, great for Lions fans andagain I've mentioned this before

(55:44):
, they were my first NFL fandom,but it's very, very
disheartening to watch on ourside of things.
Anything else you want tomention, jay, on the coaching
side and in terms of that,before we talk about our very
last topic and wrap up for theweek, nah, man, that's.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
That's all I got to say.
Man, this has been a greatepisode, went a lot better than
we thought.
We came into it thinking wewere going to discuss a historic
loss and it went way betterthan expected.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
But nothing else to add, man, yeah, I'm sure we will
.
Well, I know for a fact we'llcontinue to have these
discussions here as far ascoaching over the last five
weeks of the season.
But to pivot to the finaldiscussion, we're going to have
here speaking on the last fiveweeks of the season.
But to pivot to the finaldiscussion, we're going to have
here speaking on the last fiveweeks of the season.
Jay, as of right now correct meif I'm wrong the Jaguars still
hold the number one overall pickin terms of the draft order,

(56:34):
even though they do share thesame record with the Giants and
the Las Vegas Raiders.
Now they have an opportunityhere because they play a couple
of the teams that are currentlypicking within the top seven.
So we play Las Vegas, we playTennessee again, uh, twice.
Actually, we play Tennesseetwice, right, yeah, they play
Tennessee twice and they alsoplay the jets.

(56:56):
Those teams two and nine, acouple of them are three and
eight, and you brought up a.
An interesting conversation isis is there an opportunity here
for the jaguars to playthemselves out of the number one
overall pick?
Now, listen, obviously we knowwhat our track record is against
tennessee, no matter what therosters look like, uh, when they

(57:19):
played houston fairly wellearlier in the year in a game
they probably should have wonNow.
Granted, all of this is coupledwith an asterisk, because if
I'm Trevor Lawrence, I certainlywant to shut it down for the
year.
I know he has been practicing,but there are winnable games on
this schedule, especially whenyou look at the Jets and the

(57:41):
Raiders.
I mean honestly, four out ofthese five games are winnable,
right, jay?
And even Houston is kind of ina weird spot right now.
At seven and five, they all ofa sudden find themselves in a
divisional, maybe, race withIndianapolis, who has started to
look a little bit better.

(58:01):
So what do we think here?
Because obviously we've circledTravis Hunter and we've already
started pairing him with TrevorLawrence, with Brian Thomas Jr
or, if you want to put him inthe defensive side, pairing him
with Tyson Campbell.
Are you a little worried here?
They may rattle off somevictories and find themselves
maybe even picking outside ofthe top five, because if you

(58:23):
beat some of these teams, youhold that tiebreaker and all of
a sudden you're no longerpicking number one.
What's your level of concernhere that they could fall into
some victories?
All of the new york jets acouple years ago when they had a
chance to take trevor lawrenceand you know, frank gore became
the legend here in jacksonvilleright, right, and they still

(58:45):
need to build that statue forthem, right?

Speaker 2 (58:48):
um, I would say out of 10, about a 4.5.
Just looking at, um, what I sawtoday, for example, when I was
watching us against the lionsjust the tackling mechanics that
we like, we're fundamentallyjust screwed up.
And when you're fundamentallyscrewed up like that, you leave
the window open for a lot oflosses.

(59:09):
And another thing, too, is youknow, the Jaguars don't know how
to win.
Right, the Jaguars can verywell have the lead at some point
in the first or fourth quarterof these games that you
mentioned, and my probability ofthem losing the game is 85,
because they done it time andtime again under Doug Peterson
this year.
It's been time like we reallyshould have a better record than

(59:31):
we do feel, and part of thereason that we don't is because
we, we give up the last drive.
Basically, you know what I'msaying, like that's what it
comes down to.
So you know when I look at itfrom that perspective.
And the terrible tacklingmechanics, right, and look, they
said they made some tweets herewithin the coaching staff and
some changes.
We'll see if they really make adifference.

(59:53):
But between the tackling issues, between the lack of
communication, uh, between justwhere our defense ranks in
general, I would say I put it ata 4.5 in terms of where my
concern lies.
But I think in all honesty wecan secure that pick.

(01:00:15):
I never felt.
I mean, I may have said it afew times in the podcast and
predictions, but I never feelgood playing the Titans, you
know.
And then you got Calvin Ridleykind of kind of showing up a
little bit now you know what I'msaying like and he's definitely
you know how players say oh Idon't look at tweets, this.
That he definitely looks at thetweets and it's something

(01:00:36):
definitely fueling him for thetwo games we played him.
So I wouldn't be, I wouldn't beshocked if he was the player
that did numbers on us, which ishow our look is going.
The Texans although, as you said, they're kind of in that weird
area right now they're still,even with CJ Stroud, not looking
the best they still are capableof beating us.

(01:00:57):
So I wouldn't really worryabout that one turning into
anything.
The only ones you really worryabout is like maybe that Raiders
one because they're down tolike their third quarterback,
desmond Ritter.
We could win that one perhaps.
But the other games I don'treally see any wins, even with
the Jets and Aaron Rodgers.
You know Aaron Rodgers is nolonger the guy that we've grown

(01:01:19):
to watch over the years, buthe's still good enough to beat
us right, so I I think we stillcan secure it.
I'm not concerned that wedropped the ball on this yeah, I
definitely am not too worriedabout them.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Uh, winning those titans games.
Like you said, calvin reallycertainly pays attention to what
has been said and, uh, you knowI'm sure arden key is in his.
Arden key is still on the.
Uh, the titans, right?
Uh, it's.
We don't really hear that namevery often but you know I'm sure
they bond over.
Uh, you know their time here injacksonville.
Um, the raiders, I definitelydon't think we are very good.

(01:01:57):
Um, that would be one thatmaybe I would circle.
Um, gardner minshu, I believe,is also out for the remainder of
the year, from what I recall.
But the Jets are in shambles.
They may even man.
Wouldn't it be something ifthey shut down Aaron Rodgers for
the year and just admit theirmistake?
Who knows what's going tohappen there?

(01:02:17):
Honestly, the most Jaguar thingto happen and the most Texans
thing to happen would be forthem to win this weekend here at
home against a, a good team,and then, you know, lose those

(01:02:46):
remaining games to secure theirspot.
So I'm not too concerned rightnow about anybody but Las Vegas,
because I think they could winthat game in Las Vegas.
But the rest of the teams, Ican see them, I could definitely
see them winning.
I mean, the jets are bad buttheir their roster on paper is
still pretty solid, like I couldsee, you know, garrett wilson,

(01:03:09):
breeze hall, coming in andhaving a game um against them
here at home.
So definitely a littleconcerned, but I would also put
it at like a five out of tenright now.
So we will see.
Is there any order of thoseteams when you look at, like the
Giants in Las Vegas?
I mean because they may goquarterback, so you may only

(01:03:29):
have to secure the number twooverall pick because I can see
Vegas or the Giants going ShadorSanders at number one.
I don't think Shador Sandersand a lot of people have said
this I don't think he's the bestplayer in the draft, but
obviously a quarterback is goingto be top priority for those
two teams.
Do you think they would be okayif they were to pick two or

(01:03:50):
even three?

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
yeah.
So I heated up the good oldtankaduncom to look at the draft
order.
So, uh, yeah, looking at it.
Yeah, new york and las vegas,those are two teams that, if
they jump ahead of you in thedraft order, yeah, I think we're
good there in terms of them nottaking a quarterback.
What you have to kind of beconcerned with is do they trade

(01:04:14):
out of those picks which I don'tthink they would, by the way,
because you know you have a newcoach in Antonio Pierce in Las
Vegas who probably is going tobang the table to get a
quarterback because he knows howimportant that is for his
career and stay in there.
Because we already have said,you know how coaches,

(01:04:36):
african-american coaches andjust coaches, minority coaches
don't have a lot of leeway whenit comes to these job
opportunities.
So when you're in the front ofthe draft order, you kind of, if
you're one of those coaches,you kind of have to prance on
that opportunity to get aquarterback.
So I don't I'm not concernedthat they would trade back the
Giants.
They just let go of DanielJones, right, and you would

(01:04:59):
think Joe Sheen is going.
If he's, he's going to stay theGM, I think.
But I think Joe Sheen isdefinitely going to get that
talk from the Giants owner Likehey, you got this year to clean
it up, buddy, and if you don't,we're letting you go.
So I can see them drafting aquarterback, even though when

(01:05:20):
you're in that weird area whereyou got one year to fix it,
sometimes you want to hinge ongetting a veteran quarterback.
So you got to kind of worryabout it with the Giants, but I
still think they get a rookie,or what they could do is get a
rookie and a veteran Right andthat way that'll help you secure
the short term and long termfuture.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
You know what's crazy , though, about the Giants and
getting a veteran Jay.
They have one.
They have Drew Locke, andthey're not playing him.
I forgot about him, I forgotbro, and they played Tommy
Cutlets.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Right.
So yeah, that would would youmention.
In that field I think theydefinitely would probably get a
rookie.
I mean, I know they've done italready, been there, done it
with Daniel Jones.
But I think and then likeanother thing to factor in,
what's their salary cap lookinglike?
They probably might have to geta rookie if they're not in
great cap shape.

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
Just paid Brian Burns in that trade, so, yeah, they
probably have some MalikNeighbors is also on a rookie
contract, so that helps too.
And that was the whole thingabout yeah, yeah, they probably
have some Malik neighbors isalso on a rookie contract, so
that helps too.
So, and they didn't.
And that was the whole thingabout them not resigning.
Saquon right is they wanted tosave some money, so they
probably got some leeway, youknow.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
Right To play devil's advocate here, or just my cure?
Well, I'll just say this mycuriosity, Pete what's the free
agent list looking like forquarterbacks?
Do you like?
Off the top of your mind?

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
I can pull it up.
Hold on here.
Uh, let's see here upcomingfree agents.
Well, um, oh, you know what.
That's 2024, so let me pull upnext year.
Sam darnold that's basicallythe only justin fields, and
maybe you know Russell Wilson,if those two hit the market

(01:07:07):
again.
You know Other than that,you're looking at names like
Zach Wilson, trey Lance Jameis,winston Mac Jones so not really
a lot of names on here.
Jimmy Garoppolo yeah, not a lotof notable names on here.
Marcus Mariota the typical guysyou see on this list.

(01:07:28):
Jacoby Brissett Start gettingnames like that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
A lot of those names scream get one of those top
veterans you named and still getthe rookie.
I think as long as those twoteams are ahead of us, we're
good.
I wish that would kind of befun from the perspective of like
beating the Texans and it notreally costing you anything.

(01:07:52):
Like you said Right, like Iwould like to shut them up.
You know what would be great,honestly and this is just
selfishly.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
You know, what would be hilarious is if the colts and
anthony richardson win thisdivision and we get to shove it
in boogie's face and we're noteven he has made us anthony
richardson fans and you know,and you know how we feel about
gators and I ultimately don'tthink that anthony richardson is
going to be very good, but Ithink it would be hilarious to
watch anthony richardson and thecolts win this division and

(01:08:21):
steal it from up under theHouston Texans.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
We've always said it, phil His talent scares us, and
I don't mean like scares us interms of what he could.
It scares us from thisperspective.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
I think his ceiling, I think, is like isn't too high,
but he can make theprerequisite plays every once in
a while to beat you.
I think that's what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
Right, yeah, he could be a.
He could be an issue for theJaguars.
I'll put it that way.
That's where his talent scaresus.
He could really.
If he put it all together, hecould be an issue for the
Jaguars.
So yeah, man, I mean, yeah, wecould kind of show that would be
dope, but we'll see.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
And for Caleb Williams and the Bears to keep
losing and for AnthonyRichardson to be in the playoffs
.
He would.
He would lose it.
What a Christmas it would be.
But yeah, anything else youwant to mention on this episode
as we wrap up again thispre-holiday episode, this will
probably come out on the Fridayafter Thanksgiving.
I'm going to try and get itedited as soon as possible.
But anything else you want tomention before we wrap up and

(01:09:25):
then focus on the next game, Iguess, and see what changes, if
any, are going to be made beforethe season is actually over.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
Nah, nothing else to add.
Man, a good quality episodewent way better than I thought.
As I said earlier, man, Ithought I was going to kind of
be miserable during this episode, but it kind of went in a
different direction from that.
But yeah, all of that said man.
Um, as you all know, in everyepisode you know where to find
us at sportsground, underscoredunn, at field of filipino, all

(01:09:57):
on twitter.
Uh, we might migrate to bluesky.
That's another thing.
Like people need to come upwith a concrete date for us all
to go to blue sky.
Like, come up with a date.
Uh, those are already set up.
So if y'all want to follow us,it's the same thing as on
twitter.
Um, wwwtouchdownjadwarscom isthe official site and, of course

(01:10:19):
, you can go ahead and check outour sponsor seat geek.
Get yourself some tickets towhatever sports event or event.
You need to get tickets to useour promotion code touchdown
Jaguars.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
That's right, and everything once again is in the
link tree, link in the shownotes of each and every episode.
But, folks, that is my cohost,james Johnson.
I am Phil Smith.
Do not forget to tune intotouchdown Jaguars for each and
every Jaguar touchdown and we'llsee you next time.
Happy Thanksgiving, happyHolidays.