Episode 110: First-Round Focus - Six Prospects for the Jaguars - Touchdown Jaguars!

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:24):
Still running.
And no, that is a no no.
Touchdown Jacksonville 109yards Incredible Play action.
Portals Upstairs Wide open.

(00:45):
Tommy Bohannon, touchdownJacksonville.
Looking for Jimmy in the endzone.
Touchdown Jaguars.
Touchdown Jaguars.
Touchdown Jaguars.
Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguarspodcast.
Here are your hosts, jamesJohnson and Phil Smith.

(01:08):
Hey, everyone, welcome back tothe Touchdown Jaguars podcast.
I am your co-host, phil Smith,and joining me, as always, is
your other co-host, jamesJohnson.
Jay, good to be back here withyou after another hiatus here
over the last couple of weeks aswe kind of let everything play
out.
Of course, there has been somevery exciting news here in terms

(01:30):
of the Jacksonville Jaguars,but more importantly, jay, we
are recording here on theevening of March 3rd.
We've turned the corner intoMarch, which means we have draft
content.
So very excited to go over someprospects with you here today.
And also, because we haven'ttalked about it since the Super
Bowl, we'll also talk about, youknow, the Jacksonville Jaguars

(01:53):
new general manager.
It's been obviously a few weeksnow since that news came out
and we learned who will betaking over the front office and
who will be pairing with LiamCohen to kind of bring this new
vision of the JacksonvilleJaguars together.
So, jay, excited to touch onthat and also one of our
favorite times of the year.
Talk some draft prospects.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, man, it never gets old, right, although,
admittedly, if Trent Baalke wasstill here, we would have been
depressed and maybecontemplating ending the podcast
would have been depressed.
Um, and maybe contemplatingending the podcast, we we've had
that discussion before.
But, yeah, as you mentioned, itwas some.
You know, we got some greatnews with, uh, the hiring of a
new GM.
We'll talk about that and thathas reinvigorated us, you know,

(02:36):
if you will.
So it's giving us a another winand another, uh, more of a
desire to do this than wepreviously had with Trent Baalke
in the house.
So, yeah, man, as you said,like now, I'm excited for the
draft, man, even though you know, my job has, you know, kind of
kept me away from covering it asmuch as I, you know I normally

(02:57):
do, and all of that good stuffMissed the combine a good
majority of it, unfortunately,but nonetheless, man, I'm still
excited to talk about the newdirection we'll go in in terms
of our player acquisitions inthe draft.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Man, can't wait yeah, you know, obviously we did not
want the jaguars to once againbe picking this highly in the
draft, but you know, here we areoff-season champions.
Per usual, things are off to avery exciting start when you
talk about the new staff andthen, of course, the general
manager, which we'll touch onhere in just a moment.

(03:33):
So a lot more enthusiasm thanwe usually had around this time
of year, like you said, jay,when Trent Baalke was
unfortunately still around.
But before we dive into theepisode, I want to welcome back
to you listeners.
I know it's been about a monthsince we put out an episode.
Now that we have turned thecorner into the draft season and
free agency coming up as well,jay, we plan on putting out

(03:54):
episodes weekly once again, aswell as bringing in some guests
to have on to talk about thefree agency process as well as
the draft process.
So make sure you click theLinktree link in the show notes
of this episode and you'll findeverything you need in terms of
social media pages for both thepodcast as well as Jay and I's
personal accounts.
And make sure you check out thewebsite touchdownjaguarscom, as

(04:18):
I'm sure Jay will be updatingthat here over the next couple
of weeks with some draft contentfor you guys.
But, jay, let's start with thenews of the next general manager
for the Jacksonville Jaguars.
Again, this was all the wayback on February 21st, so a
couple weeks now removed fromJames Gladstone being hired on
to be the next general managerof the Jacksonville Jaguars.

(04:39):
In a statement Shad Khanreleased, he stated it is my
honor to introduce JamesGladstone as the new general
manager of the JacksonvilleJaguars.
James emerged as my choice andour choice following a
painstaking but energizinginterview process that left
nothing to doubt.
Every candidate delivered and Iam grateful to them all for

(04:59):
their preparation and time spentwith us this week in
Jacksonville.
In the end, we found James tobe a class ahead and exceptional
in every regard Vision, newideas, communication, chemistry
and a keen understanding of theleague and our team, to name a
few of many virtues he willbring immediately to the Jaguars
.
It's going to be fun watchingJames work with our football

(05:22):
leadership team of Liam Cohen,tony Buscelli and Tony Kahn, but
most of all, it will berewarding.
I am confident in that, ofcourse.
Gladstone had been with theRams for eight seasons and had
been the director of scoutingstrategy for the last four
seasons he worked very closelywith Rams GM Les Snead and
played a key role in the team'sdraft process, an area where LA

(05:44):
has found quite a bit of success, even at times with limited
draft picks.
And this is from the Jags wire,from Paul Brettel.
So, jay, full-on youth movementhere in Jacksonville very, very
much long overdue.
And this was a job.
If you had asked us and polleda lot of people about a month
ago, it seemed like this jobbelonged to Ian Cunningham,

(06:09):
right out of Chicago, but inthose weeks leading up to the
hire, james Gladstone closedthat gap and then eventually
overtook Cunningham.
So what was your initialreaction now that we're a couple
of weeks removed from it, andhow do you feel about the
prospect of James being the guyto lead this team going forward

(06:29):
in the front office?

Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, well, I'll start by saying this man, his
first name alone.
I mean, if you're basing it onmyself, you won't find any
harder worker.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
The second most talented James in Jacksonville.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
now, right, right right, there you go.
But one thing about, uh, peoplewith that first name, james,
they're, they're hard workers,man.
So, if I must say so myself,but, um, yeah, all of that said
man, um, I'm excited about itand although I would have been
happy with ian cunningham too,we had this discussion I wasn't
as high on Ian Cunningham assome others, right, so this

(07:07):
definitely doesn't bother me andI like the youth movement and
the youth aspect of it.
I know a lot of people andshout outs to Studge.
We talked about this in thespace with a few people.
I know a lot of people haveconcerns about the youth
movement and particularly hisage.
I think he's what, 34?
He's like you know, he's ourage, phil, so that's young for a

(07:29):
GM.
But that being said, I know youknow there's a lot of concerns
about the.
You know his age and what haveyou.
But I mean, as I said in thespace, it's not as if doing the
opposite work, right, we hadthese older, you know archaic
GMs and Trent Balky, and thenbefore that the EVP was Tom

(07:50):
Coughlin.
So it wasn't like that wasnecessarily working for us and
kind of as Shaw had said in hisstatement, or not even that
statement, but it was beforehand.
They need to try somethingdifferent, right and try
something, try and reinventthemselves or whatever the case
may be.
And I think this is a, you know, a step in the right direction

(08:12):
when considering what we weredoing, you know, wasn't working.
So I'm very excited abouthaving James in, I'm excited
about the young coaching staffand I mean, just when I look at
it overall, man, in terms ofgoing from James Gladstone to
Trent Baalke, it's so manythings we could get excited
about.
Right, phil?

(08:33):
I was pulling up my notes herethat I wrote for the spaces and
you know I have three bigtakeaways from it and I won't go
into them in depth or in deepdetail, but you know, one of
them was, you know, you look atthe Rams history as opposed to
our history Over there in LA.
They weren't scared to takerisks, right, it felt like Trent
Baalke, and one of the thingsthat ultimately made him that

(08:54):
got him fired was he was alittle bit risk adverse or he
was.
He was scared to take riskslike that.
We're talking about a Rams team, on the other hand, who didn't
have first round picks for years.
Right, and it actually workedtoo.
It wasn't like they werethrowing their first round of
picks away and it didn't work.
They got a Super Bowl out of it, right.
And then after that they builtup a bunch of draft picks and

(09:18):
they took that approach that youknow we took some years ago and
just took a whole boatload ofplayers to to revamp that roster
after they had to let go a lotof high-priced veterans and
stuff.
I'm excited about that aspectof it, right, we got a GM that
isn't scared to take risks and,yeah, I think down the road,
especially with this rosteralready having some pieces,

(09:40):
that'll be a very, very valuablething that we'll revisit
sometime soon because I thinkyou know that is something that
will help propel James to.
You know, propel this roster tothe next level is, you know,
when you add what he can bringto the table in terms of not
being scared to take risks, andadd that with the roster we

(10:00):
already have, that's when youstart getting closer to a Super
Bowl level and Super Bowlcaliber team.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, and when you talk about a team that had truly
reinvented itself after theywent all in for a Super Bowl,
right, when you're talking aboutthe Rams, gave up all their
draft capital and it paid off.
They got what they wanted outof Matthew Stafford and then to
now find themselves once againback in the position to win

(10:32):
another Super Bowl.
They've been talking about thisessentially this entire time,
while this whole MatthewStafford thing was kind of
unfolding over the last coupleweeks.
Jay, with the Rams, they werereally the only team that
challenged the PhiladelphiaEagles and they're probably the
only team in the NFC, outside ofa healthy Detroit Lions team,

(10:52):
that probably goes, you know,blow for blow with Philadelphia
in terms of their roster.
And now they're very young, Imean, they're in a position
where you can let a Cooper Cupwalk, you know, because of Puka
Nakua, because of some of theother moves they've made and
because you've also drafted verywell on defense.
So you know, I know, obviouslyat the you know the Combine, he

(11:16):
looks looking very young upthere on the podium, but this is
a guy that can command a roomand also this new wave of young
guys that we're seeing here inthe league where, when teams are
going younger, we're seeing alot of success.
And, like we said, jacksonvillehas just been so overdue for

(11:37):
this type of youth movement.
They kept going back to whathas worked in the past, right to
what has worked in the past,right Going back to Tom Coughlin
or bringing in, you know, theolder coaches Doug Marones, the
Doug Pearsons, the retreads, youknow and now they've really
finally bought into hey, let'sget younger from top to bottom

(11:58):
and see what these, this newgeneration of football coaches
and front office guys, and seewhat they can do here.
So really, really excited aboutthat prospect.
And not only that, jay.
I mean the Rams.
If you kind of look at theirhistory, they're also not afraid
of draft day movement or justmoving draft compensation around

(12:20):
.
So, like, do you have anyanticipation that we'll?
We'll see some type of movementin the draft that is not just
moving back two picks to acquirea fourth or fifth round pick.
Like I think we might actuallysee genuine, meaningful draft
day movement from gladstone andand the people he brings in yeah
, I'm glad you mentioned that.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
I'm gonna going to circle back to that field
actually.
But real quick, something Iwanted to add to what you
mentioned in the youth movementand things of that nature GM,
real young GM, and then GusBradley as the coach.
But, as you mentioned, you'reright, for the most part they've
gone with what's worked in thepast.
They've gone with the olderguys.

(13:14):
But I think that's what scaresa lot of people about Gladstone
is how the Dave Caldwell thingwent, should I say.
And I'm here to tell peopleit's a lot different than it was
then.
Dave Caldwell was working witha bare roster, no talent at all.
He had to find all of thetalent to revamp that roster
through free agency and a draft.

(13:34):
Whatever the case may be, it'sa lot different.
Here we at least have pieces inplace and that's a lot of why
Gladstone was thrown at this job.
Right, les Snead recommendedhim for this job is because it
was a good place to go, becausethe roster wasn't bare.
He's coming into a situationwhere he has his two defensive
ends set, you know which.

(13:56):
That's rare for a GM to comeinto that situation.
He's coming into a situationwhere we believe quarterback is
set situation.
He's coming into a situationwhere we believe quarterback is
set.
He's coming into a situationwhere we believe that brian
thomas jr is a top.
Probably.
You know, if you ask most jazzfans or you know, ask most
people around the league.
In general, a top 10 widereceiver, typically a gm,

(14:20):
doesn't inherit that kind ofroster.
When it comes to the premiumpicks, all of the hard things to
find on a roster, all of thosethings are figured out Phil for
him.
So he just has to, you know,build a roster between that.
You know, get us right in thetrenches.
But the premium positions arefine.

(14:41):
Now you mentioned the draft andyou know them not being scared
to maneuver around the draft.
You're right, and I think thatI wouldn't be shocked if they
traded back from five, becauseliam cohen has kind of mentioned
it in the press conferences oryou know, just anytime he popped
up to do a cameo for tv, right,I think he spoke with pf, pro

(15:03):
Football Talk and Mike Florioand them during the combine,
right, and he was saying that,you know, if it wasn't them it
might have been NFL Network.
But he was saying that you knowyou can't rule out trading back
, you know, especially if theopportunity presents itself and
you can stockpile some morepicks.
And I'm just paraphrasing here.

(15:23):
But you know he was open to itis how I would put it.
It sounded.
He sounded very open to tradingback.
So no, I wouldn't be shocked atall, especially, you know, if
things don't go according toplan.
We keep hearing all this stuffabout hey, mason Graham will be
gone by pick number five.
Hey, you know some of theseother guys will be gone by pick
number five that we've mentioned, travis Hunter, which you know

(15:46):
we'll talk about that later.
So yeah, I mean I could seethem maneuvering back,
especially with the number fiveoverall pick going back and
maybe, you know, trading backinto that 10, 12, 11-ish range
somewhere in there, which I meanI would still be excited about
the draft if they did trade back.
It wouldn't change myexcitement about it.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
I mean we did it last year, right, and we were still
very excited and we were happywith the results and not to get
too far ahead of ourselves interms of just talking about, you
know, the draft and thepositioning and all that.
But I think it's really goingto depend on how these
quarterbacks fall.
So, and I think specificallyShador Sanders, I think Cam Ward
goes in the top two whether hegoes number one to Tennessee, or
if somebody trades up to jumpNew York to get him at number

(16:33):
one, or again if he just goesnumber two altogether.
I do think Tennessee is goingto take Abdul Carter.
Yeah, it's really going todepend on those quarterbacks,
because if we get to pick fiveand Shador is still on the board
, then I think that's where theythey really start fielding
calls pretty aggressively,because I think that's the guy

(16:54):
that you know a lot of peopleare going to keep an eye on to
see if he falls.
What do you think about that,jay?
Because that's what I'm hearinga lot in terms of a guy you
know, because the Raiders theRaiders would love to see him
drop down so they could take him.
So the concept of the Raidersswapping picks with Jacksonville
to get up one spot to preventsomeone else from getting him.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
Right, right, you make a good point, phil.
And coming out of the combine,I think it was Jocena Anderson,
and love her or hate her, uh,jocena anderson works hard,
right and um, she puts her heartand soul into her job.
And she was mentioning I thinkit was her that mentioned that
shador.
You know, coming out of thecombine, there are some teams

(17:39):
that this could just be teamsstirring the pot so he can fall
right.
You know, we see that all thetime too.
But coming out of the um thecombine, a lot of people feel
that, um, how he interviewedthat, he came off as a little, I
guess, like maybe arrogant orwhatever the case may be, and it
might scare some teams or whathave you and um, that then falls

(18:00):
into your formula right of howmany quarterbacks go in the top
four picks, so he could findhimself outside of it.
Maybe, possibly Then, as yousaid, the Jaguars get that call
from Oakland to ensure they getthe pick, because we've all
heard the rumors about how, youknow, tom Brady has worked with

(18:22):
Shador in the past and how helikes Shador and, by the way, I
like Shador as a prospect too,not that, you know, the
discussion is about him as aprospect but I like him
personally.
If I was a team I wouldn't bescared to draft him.
I've seen what he's done andturned, you know, multiple
programs around and you know hementioned that and rightfully so
.
But yeah, I can see where.
Yeah, oakland calls us and youknow we get a little small

(18:45):
fortune maybe to trade back onespot and they take Shador and
everybody's happy.
And you know we still can, youknow, get one of the guys we
like, depending on what'savailable.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, I think it's funny that people are surprised
that Shador Sanders is, you know, a little arrogant or confident
in his abilities, as if wedon't know who his Sanders is.
You know, a little arrogant orconfident in his abilities, as
if we don't know who his fatheris Right.
So I think that just kind ofcomes with the territory and
it's like what do you want, youknow?
Do you want your guy to beconfident in their abilities or

(19:19):
do you want them to be softspoken?
I mean, it's a tale as old astime when it comes to these
prospects, right, jay, so I.
Either way, it'd be good for usif, uh, you know, shador starts
falling a little bit down thedraft board yeah, phil,
especially at that position.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Right, you want confidence at that position,
especially with how young he'sgoing to be, coming into a
situation where he's going toprobably have to uplift a very
bad team.
Let's face it.
And I mean, like, if you're likea team for example, you look at
a draft for your team like theNew York Giants, right, or even

(19:56):
even the Jets, who are at seven,but more so the Giants, right,
that shouldn't scare you becauselook at what kind of media
market he's going to be dealingwith.
Right, you want that confidence.
You want that guy who can takethe arrows and the darts that
will be thrown at him at thatmedia market.
So, all of this talk about someteams being, you know, scared

(20:17):
away by how he interviewed Icertainly hope the New York
Giants aren't one of them,because they should be running
to the podium to get him becausehe has the personality and
mindset that's needed and, asyou said, of course Deion
Sanders is his father.
He has the mindset needed totake on that market and, you

(20:37):
know, flourish, you know thingsmight not go well that first
year, but everything that weheard, he has the confidence to
overcome that and overcomewhatever adversity is thrown at
him in year one and look, youknow, maybe you come out of that
with a Jalen Daniels like uhsituation, like what Jalen
Daniels did for the commanders.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
So time will tell and we'll see where he ultimately
ends up yeah, it's definitelygoing to be one of the top
stories of the draft season, so,and Jacksonville has quite a
few reasons to keep an eye onthat.
But let's move into our primarytopic here.
This evening, jay and if yousee it there in the title Jay
and I will both be selectingthree prospects that they would

(21:20):
like to see the JacksonvilleJaguars target, primarily at
pick number five, but, as you'llsee, with some of the other
selections or some of the otherplayers we have on here Also, if
you know there's some movement,you know there are some players
on these lists that we don'tnecessarily think should go as
high as number five, but wouldstill like to see the Jaguars

(21:41):
try and target them, you knowwhether it be via trading back
or something along those lines.
So, jay, I'll let you kick itoff here.
There will definitely be somenames that people are very
familiar with and also just somenames that, over the weekend at
the NFL Combine, madethemselves some money,
especially in the case of one ofthe guys that I will mention as

(22:03):
a unapologetic Homer to giveyou guys a little bit of a
teaser about what we're going totalk about.
I do want to ask you this, jay,because I believe I know the
answer to this, but just for ouraudience, how much weight do
you put into the underwearOlympics, as sometimes people
call it, when it comes to thecombine, because I know you as

(22:25):
much more of a film guy?
But what kind of things do youtry and take away from the draft
when it is I mean from thecombine when it is, you know, a
pretty controlled environment?
What kind of stock and value doyou put into this weekend?

Speaker 2 (22:40):
yeah, of course.
Yeah, you know me, I always goback to the eye in the sky, go
back to the film, right the sky,go back to the film, right.
But I think the purpose of thecombine, or one thing that it
really helps with, is, you know,it helps you realize you might
have missed something on filmand it gives you that alert to
go back.
I think that's like one of thekey aspects of the combine.

(23:01):
And also too, man, I think youknow the combine does hold some
value in terms of raising adraft stock.
A lot of people disagree withthat.
But, kind of going back to whatI was saying, sometimes you'll
see a guy in the underwearOlympics run a fast 40 or change
directions and the agilitydrills a little bit better than
you thought they could, and yougo back and look at that film

(23:22):
and you start wondering like,hey man, like we might need to
move this kid up on our draftboard.
You know so I think it does.
You know it's a, it's an eventthat, while a lot of people will
say you can't necessarilyimprove your stock in the
combine because the film isalready out there on you, I

(23:42):
disagree with that aspect of it.
But again, ultimately I'llalways be a film guy.
But it's been plenty of times,phil, where I saw a kid show out
at the Combine.
I go back and look at the filmof him right and it's like, oh
my God, you know what I'm saying, this kid might need to be shot
up on draft boards.

(24:03):
I'm going to watch him more.
It's been plenty of times whereI've looked back at somebody
who you know tested well at thecombine and that resulted in me
starting, you know, to put themin my mock drafts when they
previously weren't so.
You know, I guess that's whatI'll say about the combine.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
I'm curious on your opinion though.
Yeah, you know, in doing thispodcast with you for so long and
as somebody who didn't playfootball, you know I always
defer to you guys and you knowthe guests that we talk to when
it comes to just watching filmand what to look for.
I will also always be a youknow what does the tape say kind
of guy, but you also just can'thelp but be astounded by when

(24:44):
you just break this thing downto a who runs the fastest, who
jumps the fastest and whochanges direction the fastest.
There's just somethingfascinating about it when you
break it down to just the verybare bones of athleticism and
seeing some of these guys go outthere and perform the way that
they do.
I mean we're talking about likea Gunnar Helm who twisted his

(25:07):
ankle on a false start in the 40and still ran pretty well for a
tight end and then completedthe rest of his drills.
You know.
You're talking about like a,like you said, in terms of draft
stock, like how much can changeover the course of, you know, a
few seconds right, like in thecase of a guy we'll talk about
here in just a moment.
So I also still refer to thetape because it's like, how are

(25:32):
they when they're playingfootball, right?
Like that's the most basicquestion you can ask and get an
answer for, because you have thetape on these guys.
But again, there's justsomething really fascinating
about the week in Indianapolisand you know why it has become
such a, such a spectacle.
You know, I don't know that Iwould.
I think you would definitelytake the chance, but I don't

(25:53):
know that I would ever want togo just watch the combine.
I know you, you would eat thatup, but like I feel, like me, I
would get a little bored.
But it's just kind offascinating.
This has become such a such abig thing, and for good reason.
Because, like you said, youknow guys come out of here and
some of them lose themselvesquite a bit of money, but also
some of them gain themselvesquite a bit of money.

(26:15):
But you know, just curiousabout what your again, what's
your philosophy was for maybesome of our newer listeners.
But, jay, why don't you kick usoff?
Who is the third?
Third?
These aren't in.
I don't believe these are inany particular order.
I think we just both pickedthree players, but correct me if
I'm wrong, but who is um thirdon your list in terms of a
player that you'd like to seeJacksonville target here in the

(26:36):
upcoming draft in the firstround?

Speaker 2 (26:39):
yeah, I'll start with Mason Graham and uh, mason
Graham is a guy that you knowwhen you watch him on film and
when you watch us on film lastyear, you can't help but be
intrigued by him.
Because we were terrible interms of in the trenches and
getting what we needed to getdone.

(27:00):
Like last year was probably thehardest film to watch of our
defense that I've seen in quitesome time, if not the hardest.
Like it was worse than the GusBradley early in Gus Bradley's
days.
Like it was bad man.
Like because you knew whenpeople lined up, you know that
they were going to have ourtheir way with our defense.
And it was crazy because not toharp on Trent too much, because

(27:22):
that's in the past but it'scrazy because one of the things
I always hated and one of thethings that was always the most
disheartening about our defensefield is when you watch us on
the film.
If we were to stand our defenseup pound for pound against the
opposition on offense, we wouldtotally look like the more

(27:45):
dominant team in terms of height, weight and speed, because that
was Trent's thing.
We looked like a bunch of.
We looked like the Monstars outthere.
So when you line us up againstthe offensive side of the ball,
whoever we were playing.
A lot of times we would looklike we have the height, weight
and speed advantage, but when weget on the field it's the total

(28:06):
opposite and that really,really, really annoyed me.
And the reason I mention that isbecause you know, here you have
a guy that Trent Baalke mightnot even touch.
You know, in Mason Graham, whocould be a difference maker for
the defense, right?
I mean, he's got.
He has that wrestlingbackground we keep hearing about
and you can see it is evidentas clear as day on the film that

(28:29):
he has a wrestling background.
I like how he uses his handsand his upper body movement.
I like his ability.
If you pretty much put himone-on-one with somebody, he's
probably going to win thateasily with speed um alone if
you put him in a one-on-onesituation.
So many things to like aboutthis kid and I've only seen,

(28:50):
like you know about, three tapesof him.
It's like still a lot more thatI can watch on him.
But, um, I just love all ofthose things about him and how
he can disengage and I think pffyou could probably research
this film PFF had him down withlike a 90 plus against the run,
something we desperately needhere in Jacksonville, because,

(29:13):
man, did I get tired of seeingpeople have their way in the run
game with us on defense.
So yeah, he would bring so manyneeded things to our defense,
despite some you know know,there's been a few saying like
they think he's a little on thesmallish end, but I mean he's
fine to me.
Like I forgot what he weighedat the combine, but I think it

(29:33):
was over 310, right.
So I'm not like as worriedabout that as some people may be
.
I think it was priscoe who kindof mentioned the size, even
though I don't think priscoe'sworried about it either, but he
mentioned the size.
Uh, but though I don't thinkPrisco's worried about it either
, but he mentioned the size.
But yeah, would love to haveMason Graham and that tenacity
in this defense.
I mean looking at it from theJames Gladstone perspective,

(29:55):
right?
You coming off a team where youhad Aaron Donald for many, many
years, right?
So this kid will definitelyintrigue somebody like James
Gladstone, who we've heard ininterviews say he wants somebody
intangibly rich and all of thatgood stuff.
It feels like he might be amatch made in heaven when you
look at it from a GM perspectiveand what we have in Gladstone.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah, mason Graham, currently number four on DJ's
big board and, I believe, numberthree on Kuyper's for what that
is worth, six foot three, 320pounds.
He is primarily going to workout at his pro day on March 21st
for Michigan, but he did stilldo the bench press.
I believe he got 24 up for.

(30:41):
He repped 225 pounds 24 timesand you know he is almost
certainly a lock Jay for I meanbare minimum, I think top six.
I'd be surprised, I'd be very,very shocked, if he gets past
that and, yeah, I would love tosee him.
You know Mason and Mason Smith,you know the two, the two Masons

(31:03):
in the middle, and then JoshAllen and Trayvon Walker.
Uh, rushing the edges, I thinkthat would be, uh, that would be
great.
And and bring you back to thedays of, you know, obviously not
the same, but like having thosetwo guys in the middle you can
depend on, uh, similar to theStroud and Henderson days.
But Mason Graham would be apick that I would be very, very

(31:23):
excited about and I thinkprobably one of the more I don't
want to say safe picks, but Ithink the one that I would have
the least amount of.
Well, the second player isanother one second to another
player we'll talk about here injust a moment.
But one of the guys that theycould target and pick at number
five and have no movementwhatsoever, just stay, stand

(31:46):
packed at number five, and I'dbe like, yeah, that's perfectly
fine, I think I'd be okay withthat.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, me as well, man , Me as well, man Just watching
him on film and how hedisengaged.
And you know, I wish I wouldlove to have seen him in more
SEC competition, but nonetheless, that's OK that he wasn't.
I would be very excited aboutthat.
Yeah, and you know I would havea lot of confidence in that
pick as well if we made it.

(32:13):
It would be very little concernon my end if that's the
decision that they made to getGraham.
I mean, look, though a lot ofpeople are saying like he won't
be there, you know there's a lotof.
I think Mina Kimes and someothers, you know, mentioned that
he might not be there.
That wouldn't be shockingeither.
But I think, like we kind ofgot to, just as you mentioned

(32:34):
earlier, we kind of got tomonitor that quarterback market
right and what's the deal there,before we can kind of say
what'll happen.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah, the quarterbacks are always the
first dominoes to fall and youknow, who knows what's going to
happen with Jackson Dart maybefinding his way up pretty high.
I don't think he's going to goin the top 10.
But I mean, stranger thingshave happened.
They happen each and everysingle year.
But let's get to my first pickhere.
Jay, there is a little bit of atheme with a couple of my guys,

(33:06):
if you know anything about me,and let's go to the trenches
again, but on the opposite sideof the ball, and that is with
Kelvin Banks Jr.
Offensive lineman from Texas.
I'll just read the blurb herefrom Daniel Jeremiah, who has
him ranked as the number 24thprospect on his board.
Banks is a thick, sturdy lefttackle.
In pass protection he launchesout of his stance and shows the

(33:29):
ability to sink and bend hisknees.
He keeps his hands inside andis patient with his punch.
When he struggles it's becausehe sets up too deep or his feet
settle too early.
Both of these areas can becleaned up the run game.
He has the initial knockbackpower but he doesn't always
strain to drive, slash, finish.
He's nimble to adjust and pickoff defenders at the second

(33:50):
level and on the perimeter.
Some teams see him as more of aguard, but I believe he can
hold up a tackle.
Overall, banks has some thingsto clean up, but I like his core
foundation of strength andagility.
Now this is another.
This is one of those situationshere where I do believe that if
banks could be the pig youcould trade back and take
advantage of again a fallingshador sanders, maybe another

(34:12):
player that people want totarget, the like the defensive
end out of, uh, texas a&m, whosename is escaping me right now.
You know one of those guys thatpeople didn't think was going
to be there but people are goingto start scrambling to maybe
move up a little bit.
I know that Banks has kind ofdropped down on some draft
boards for some people againbecause he may be more of a
guard than an offensive tackle.

(34:34):
But you have heard over andover again, the one consistent
message from Leon Cohen and fromJames Gladstone is this is
about Trevor, protecting Trevor,getting him in the right
position and making sure that heis protected, and this is one
of the top guys.
I did see him struggle againstGeorgia twice, but again it was

(34:57):
Georgia, but they've investedthe money at Walker Little.
I think they're pretty happywith Anton Harrison for the time
being.
Slide Kelvin banks to the inside.
And you know, I know there'sthis thing about people not
being super high on peopletaking guards in the, you know,
super early in the draft.
But if you end up getting aguard, jay, that's around here,

(35:18):
that the sticks around for theentirety of Trevor Lawrence's
career, then that is an absolutewin.
I would be very happy withKelvin Banks as the pick if they
traded back a little bit, buthe is still another guy that I
would be pretty happy with himtaking a little bit later in the
draft.
And was it Kelvin Banks, jay,that the quote that you shared
with us in the group chat whosaid you know, if it came down

(35:38):
to being a backup as anoffensive tackle or playing as a
guard, he would absolutelyslide in the guard?
Was that Banks or was that the?
Was that Campbell?

Speaker 2 (35:48):
I don't think that was me that posted that.
It might have been on Twitter,but yeah, I'm not sure if that
was Banks or Campbell.
I'm not sure on it.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
I'll have to look it up, but I'll check.
I'll check on that.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, look it up, but uh, I'll check, I'll check on
that.
Yeah, well, I mean, what I'llsay about banks is you know
everybody keeps talking about injazz, in the jazz twitter realm
.
You know they want a peoplemover and you know somebody who
moves bodies and that's whatbanks does to me.
Now you mentioned a veryinteresting quote there from
daniel jeremiah.
When you read that blurb fromhis top prospect rankings about

(36:23):
his feet and I pulled it up aswell here where it says that
when he struggles it's becausehe sets his feet too deep.
It says when he struggles it'sbecause he sets up too deep or
his feet settle too early.
And it's funny that he mentionedthat, because one of the things
that I think kind of differshim from Campbell, if you're

(36:49):
looking at him as guards right,that is, is is defeat, right, so
it is.
I find it ironic that you knowDaniel J Meyer mentioned that as
well.
I do think Will Campbell mighthave him beat in that department
, but you know, that's OK,that's.
You know, nonetheless, man,he's a guy that every time I
watched him on film, for themost part, as you said, he

(37:09):
struggled with Georgia.
But I mean, like, as you said,phil, it's Georgia man and he
was dealing with, you know,people on the other side like
Jalen Walker you know what I'msaying Like one of the most
athletic people in the draft forcrying out loud Like I think we
can shoot him some bail.
But yeah, he's somebody who thepower shows up immediately.

(37:30):
I wouldn't mind having thatpower at guard personally,
especially when we keep havingthese conversations about one to
.
You know, provide better forTrevor Lawrence.
So I would absolutely be gaming.
He's one of those picks thatyou could probably trade back to
maybe 8, 9, 10-ish, maybe evenlater.
Maybe you can get some morepicks and you're also helping

(37:55):
out your quarterback and you'regetting some more power in the
run game too, for Travis Etienne, for Tank Bigsby.
So you're killing a lot ofbirds with one stone if you can
get him and you can trade back.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
Yeah, and we keep talking about how Liam Cohen is
just really going to unlock thefull potential of Travis Etienne
Tank Bigsby they're probablygoing to bring in another
running back in the draft or infree agency.
So getting the interior lockedin, I could definitely see them
prioritizing that.

(38:30):
And yeah, banks I think wouldbe an excellent addition to this
offensive line.
I do think it would be at guard, but then you know, if there is
an injury you could slide himout to one of those tackle spots
.
And you know we have definitelyseen that as a trend here in
Jacksonville in terms of havingoffensive linemen that can play
multiple positions.

(38:50):
So I was about to say that.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Phil.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
Yeah, I didn't mean to cut you off.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
Not even that, not even often, not even linemen.
But also what was?
What was the key thing Imentioned last year about Brian
Thomas Jr?
The first thing out of my mouthwhen we drafted him was the
ability, and it was becauseDaniel Jeremiah put me on game
when I asked him about this.
It was about his ability tohelp this team from many spots,

(39:18):
especially a team, right, thathad dealt with a lot of injuries
at receiver and look how ithelped us.
Right, because we, lo andbehold, you know, didn't want
this to happen, but we lostChristian Kirk, right, and you
know.
That being said, you know thething I kept harping on.
I didn't think it got mentionedas much as it should have,
aside from us and DJ.
But Brian Thomas Jr can helpyou from the slot, right.

(39:42):
You know.
His quote was he would give youdeath by slot fades.
So versatility, you know, inthis day and age, especially
with me you talked about thisbeforehand right, phil, on, you
know, on the side.
But with it being 17 games aseason, you know the season can
be rigorous, especially in thetrenches.

(40:03):
You're going to need thatperson that can kick out the
tackling.
Hey, you made a good pointthere, phil.
From the perspective of WalkerLittle's dealt with injuries too
right, so I would absolutely begame for that from that
perspective too.
You got somebody who can kickout to tackle in a pinch and you
know you're providing depth forthat offensive line, which is a

(40:25):
big.
It's not just that we needstarters field, we need depth on
the offensive line too, likedepth that can actually get us
through a game or two.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
Yeah, that has been something that this franchise
has been big on, no matter whowas in charge, no matter who the
general manager was, the headcoach was that they have always
found guys that can kind of movearound on the offensive line.
And you know, I think bankswould be a really good fit for
that.
But let's get to our next pickhere A J we'll.

(40:57):
We'll go snake draft here and Iwill go again, just because
I'll stick on theme and talkabout another Texas guy who, as
I talked about just a moment ago.
You know the NFL, the draftcombine, can make somebody a lot
of money, and Matthew Goldenmade himself a lot of money this

(41:18):
past weekend when he ran a fourto nine at the scouting combine
.
It was kind of funny becauseyou know my other guy, isaiah
Bond, who I'm still a big fan of.
He came into the combine sayinghe was going to break Xavier
Worthy's 40-yard dash record andhe did not come anywhere close.
Not only did he not comeanywhere close, his teammate,

(41:39):
the aforementioned MatthewGolden, outpaced him by quite a
significant amount.
And there are reports, jay, thatsome people think that Matthew
Golden could be the first widereceiver off the board.
Now we're going to mention acouple of receivers here in just
a moment, but I want to getyour thoughts Again.
When we talk about the combine,it's always something that's

(42:00):
very interesting when it comesto, uh, you know, just watching
these guys run in shorts.
But I mean, matthew golden alsohas game speed, like I know.
Obviously I watched a littlebit more of him than you did,
but uh, seeing him in thecollege football playoff and sec
championship game like this isa guy some people think he is.
I believe he was todd mcshay.
I saw him on instagram say thathe thinks Matthew Golden's the

(42:21):
best route runner in the class.
And if he were just six feet,you know, and a little bit
heavier, then he would be theundisputed number one wide
receiver in this class.
But because I believe he comesup at 511 and a little bit
smaller, that may may cause himto slip a little bit Still going
to be a first rounder, butmaybe not a top 10 guy.

(42:43):
So to be clear, I don't thinkthey should take Matthew Golden
at number five.
But if there were some movement, I mean, listen, you love to
see speed like this on thefootball field and then imagine
pairing him with BTJ.
Now we haven't seen TMAC run togive you guys a little
precursor.
We haven't seen him run the 40yet.
We'll see what happens there onhis pro day.

(43:07):
But, jay, what did you thinkabout Matthew Golden's
performance at the Combine andwhat do you know about him at
least going into this process.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah, golden is one of those prospects.
I have to lean on yourexpertise, for I haven't gone
that far down the receiverrabbit hole yet.
But what will say?
Because you know you mentionedhim and T-Mac right is, I have
my reservations about theJaguars drafting a receiver in

(43:33):
the first round and this issomething we mentioned in our
text thread for the simple factthat you know, we're kind of
dealing with the unknown withJames Gladstone, but at the same
time're kind of dealing withthe unknown with James Gladstone
.
But at the same time, whenyou're dealing with the unknown,
what have I always said, phil,about dealing with the unknown?
In football, you always go backto history.
When you don't know what inGod's name you're looking at, or

(43:54):
what to predict for the futurefor a GM or a team or offense or
a defense or a coordinator,whatever the case case may be.
When you're trying to projectwhat things will look like in
the future, you always go backto history.
And when you look at thehistory of the rams, right, they
haven't drafted a receiver inthe first round.

(44:16):
Now, admittedly, they a lot ofyears.
They didn't have a first roundpick when James Gladstone was
there, but they hadn't drafted areceiver um in the first round
while he was there at all.
You know they, I think theydrafted Atwell in the second
round, they got Cooper Cup inthe third round and then they
got uh, puka Nakua in the fifthround.

(44:37):
But you know, I think when welook at, look at James Gladstone
, history history says that he'scoming from an organization
that really believes they canfind receivers outside of round
one.
So that's something that's kindof been lingering in my head.
For, you know, the last day orso is like, could we see it
happen?
You know like where you knowthey might get this guy in the

(45:00):
second, third, fourth round thattakes off, which you know
Golden could slip to guy in thesecond, third, fourth round that
takes off, which you knowgolden could slip to us in the
second round.
Maybe we'll see.
I guess, like when you comingoff the combine that he's coming
off of that's probably unlikely, but if he does, you know like
could he be one of those,another one of those guys that
just you know gives jamesgladstone and that organization

(45:21):
of feathering their cap from theperspective, perspective of
their ability to find receiversoutside of round one.
But I'll watch some of Golden,as a matter of fact, when we get
off the podcast, since youmentioned him and I'll post
notes on Twitter about what Ithink of him, so he'll be the
next prospect I evaluate.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Yeah, to give you DJ's little blurb here, once
again from his big board.
Now, this is before the combine, so this was back as of the
let's see, I think February 24th.
But yeah, to give you what hehe wrote down for Golden, who is
his 22nd ranked prospect.
Golden has average size but heplays with tremendous polish

(45:58):
instincts and toughness.
He spends a lot of timeoperating out of the slot.
He can defeat press coveragewith quickness and or strength.
He understands how to temporoutes and sets up defenders
down the field.
He can change gears with whenthe ball goes up and he tracks
it naturally.
He does a nice job of stayinggrounded through the catch.
When working on crossers.
He has the utmost confidence inhis ball skills.

(46:20):
After the catch.
He is very strong and sturdy topull through tackles and he can
make defenders miss in space.
I love his temperament on thefield.
He plays with an edge.
Overall.
Golden doesn't have dynamictraits, but he's a natural
football player and aquarterback's best friend.
He's dependable and you knowwho doesn't like it.
What quarterback doesn't like adependable wide receiver, right

(46:42):
, jay, jay.
So I think he'd be also sayingyou know standing there that he
plays a lot out of the slot.
With the future of ChristianKirk up in the air, you know,
all the more reason.
I think Matthew Golden would bea solid target in the case that
they you know he does fall alittle bit and they find
themselves in the position totake him.

(47:03):
But let's get back to yoursecond selection here, jay.
Who do you have on your list?
Another prospect you'd like tosee the Jaguars target in round
one.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Yeah, we'll keep it in no particular order and we'll
keep it on topic what you said,right, or receiver, although
you know I said you know I don'tthink they go receiver,
although you know I said youknow I don't think they go
receiver.
But still, it's about who wewould like for the Jaguars to
draft and you know just, I guess, a personal type of thing.
But yeah, I went with TMAC andyou know TMAC.

(47:35):
When I think about, like thepossibilities of what him and
Brian Thomas can do and heactually talked about this at
the combine I feel like thatBrian Thomas is one of the the
top receivers in the league, topfive receivers and he would
love to work on the other sideof him.
So that's something to beexcited about.
You got a kid who wants to be aJaguar and wants to, you know,

(47:57):
join Brian Thomas Jr and learnfrom him.
Right, that's huge, that'salways huge.
But yeah, just when I thinkabout, like what they could do
in a Liam Cohen like offense,you know like the possibilities
are endless, right, I mean, youkind of talked about this
beforehand.
Like we talked about this backin January when we thought Balki

(48:18):
would still be here, thoughtbalky would still be here.
And you know we said you know,at least you know, if we do
decide to continue the podcast,at least if they choose cohen,
we'll have some kind of excitingoffense to look forward to and,
um, you know what he can dialup and and all of that good
stuff.
And that's where I'm at.

(48:38):
If they draft t-mac man like I,like, I mean, I'm already
excited without T-Mac, but ifthey can get T-Mac I would be
very, very elated about that,Even though, as you said, phil
T-Mac, of all these prospectsthat we're mentioning, kind of
scares me the most, you know.
But still, as you all know,being scared by a prospect has

(49:00):
never shied me away from sayingI would still take that kid
Right.
So T-Mac is in that boat.
He's a guy that, like when Iwatched him on film, I just
loved, like the body control forhis size Right, which I'm sure
we'll see that when he tests.
You know we'll get to witnessthat firsthand.
Real curious about that 40.
I wish he would have tested.

(49:21):
And, and you know, sometimeswith the combine man, I do
dislike not seeing these kidstesting.
You know, electing the past.
But look, you know theirmoney's on the line right and,
um, you know they have to makethe best decision that's best
for them financially, so youcan't be mad with that, but he's
one of those guys.
I really wish we could have sawit at combine, but still, you
know, when his pro day rollsaround we'll still, you know,

(49:44):
get to see it down the road,just not as early as we would
have liked.
This is a guy that you know workwith.
If I'm not mistaken, isn't JedFish, the coach over there at
Arizona field.
I don't know if you can lookthat up for me real quick Former
Jacksonville Jaguar guy and aguy that I think has ties to
Liam Cohen.
So they probably get some intelon him from that perspective.

(50:07):
But yeah, man, for those of youwho haven't seen T-Mac on film
yet, man, or even those of youwho have man go and watch his
body control at his size, man,it's insane.
And that's kind of one of thosethings that kind of, I guess,
intrigue people with BrianThomas, you know.
So that's one.
That's my number two on my list, phil.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
Yeah, I think he was there for what you're thinking
of.
He was there the last few yearsup until like 2023 or something
like that.
Brenton Brennan is their headcoach now, so but yeah, as far
as a team that goes, this is aprospect that I wasn't really
too familiar with until you knowthe season it ended and you
guys started talking to me abouthim.
Ranked 14th on Daniel Jeremiahis pre combine big board and

(50:55):
13th on Mel Kuypers.
Uh, here's what Daniel Jeremiahhad to say.
With him, mcmillan is a tallrangy receiver with a Drake
London like skillset primarilylines up outside, though he'll
take some reps in the slot.
He lacks ideal suddenness orburst in his release, but he's a
smooth, easy mover.
His tape is littered withcontested catches.
Some of that spawns from aninability to consistently create

(51:16):
separation, but it's alsobecause he's so comfortable
using his plus size to win 50-50balls.
He has outstanding body controland high point skills.
His catch radius is a realweapon in the red zone.
He's been productive after thecatch because of his strength
and physicality.
Overall, I thought London playedwith more urgency as a prospect
, but McMillan has the potentialto provide a similar impact at

(51:37):
the next level and, I think alot of Jaguar fans will be
locked into McMillan because ofthe, his ability to essentially
do what Gabe Davis was supposedto do, but much better and
obviously much younger.
So I would certainly be okaywith this pick as well.
Do you feel like and not onlybecause the you know, when you
look at the Rams draft strategy,do you think that five is too

(52:01):
high for for him, based off ofsome of the things that are
listed there from dj?
Or, again, is it really justgoing to depend on his pro day?

Speaker 2 (52:09):
yeah, I'm glad you pulled, uh, you brought it up
about dj's blurb.
Yeah, that, and that's when Isay he scares me.
That's one of the things right,there is suddenness, right, and
we've seen in this league, ifyou don't have Sutton is
sometimes, you know, it don'twork out well for you as a
receiver.
So, uh, there's that and again,you know, this is kind of stuff

(52:29):
we might get to see during hispro day.
You know how he changesdirection, how you know how
quick and sudden he is out ofbreaks, all of that good stuff.
But, um, yeah, yeah, you'reright, phil, the Rams strategy
says that's not, you know, aroute they would go, in my
opinion.
Now, that's not to say theydon't like him and they don't

(52:50):
have him high on the board, andyou know, liam could very well
be very high on him.
But I, you know, just looking athistory and what history says
no, and also just looking intowhat they're inheriting.
Right, phil, we we mentioned itearlier, I mentioned it earlier
is what they're inheriting is ateam, that they are set at the

(53:12):
premium positions.
Right, they're set at receiver,at least not as a whole group,
but receiver in terms of yournumber one guy.
They're set at other premiumpositions edge rusher, probably
quarterback.
You know that, at least wethink they are.
But yeah, all of that beingsaid, man, like it's the.
What I mentioned in that wholesegment was like it's more so

(53:35):
with this team.
You got to build this team upin the trenches.
That's going to be JamesGladstone primary job here.
It's because they have theskill guys.
They just don't have the bigguys and the guys to get it done
in the trenches, and that's whyI say like that kind of veers
me even more towards, uh, aMason Graham or a Kelvin Banks

(53:58):
or another guy we'll mentionlater down the road as well.
It's not just the history fromthe Rams with receivers, but
also they've inherited a teamthat needs so much help in the
trenches and something that theyneed to attack with urgency for
the sake of Trevor Lawrence.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Yeah, they've made it very clear, as we already
mentioned, that this thing isgoing to run through Trev, but
the idea of pairing thepotential of a mcmillan with
brian thomas jr I'm sure isgoing to get quite a few people
very, very excited.
Uh, jay, let's get back to yournext prospect here, as we wrap
up this episode with my lastpick and yours.

(54:38):
Who do you have third on thislist of players that you'd like
to see the jaguars target in thefirst round?

Speaker 2 (54:46):
yeah, the last one is a guy that's gained steam in,
um, you know, the jags realm,whether it's twitter, whatever
the case may be but willcampbell, and I think mia
o'brien kind of ignited this,she started it, um, if I'm not
mistaken and if I'm creditingthe wrong person, forgive me
y'all, but you know, you know alot of people think that they
like will campbell fromSU andthey more so like him as a guard

(55:10):
.
Of course he plays tackle, havewatched a lot of film on him,
watched the South Carolina filmof him twice, maybe even three
times, and I watched his filmagainst Ole Miss as well, and
you know he's a guy.
Now, admittedly, if they passedon him, I don't think it's the

(55:30):
end of the world, like somepeople might think in terms of
fixing the offensive line,because I also, like you know,
as I mentioned Kelvin Banks wealready mentioned him, right,
tate Ratledge, right, and we allseen a viral clip of him Shout
outs to the Georgia Bulldogs GoDawgs.
Right, we've seen the clips ofhim running you, you know, one

(55:54):
of the fastest 40s, um, if notthe fastest one at the combine,
and that that mullet just goingin the wind, right, like I would
love tate ratlidge too, which Ishocker or surprise here.
I put him in a mock draft thatI recently did that I may or may
not post.
Um, I guess the combine kind ofscrewed it up so I might not
need to post that one, phil, butyou've seen it, phil, and
Boogie and Vez have seen it aswell.

(56:15):
But going back to the pointahead, the topic at hand, will
Campbell, one of the things thatcame out of the combine his arm
length right Like not to soundlike Trent Baalke here, but this
is something that matters atthe offensive tackle position,
not just like Trent but ingeneral.
And you know I forgot his armmeasurements, but somebody put

(56:36):
out a tweet and I don't know ifit was fact-checked or not, but
he would have the shortest armsof a tackle if he played tackle
in the league.
Aside from I think it's a kidfrom the Colts, it might've been
Reinhardt from the Colts.
That being said, a lot ofpeople are projecting him to be

(56:56):
a guard, and I can very well seeJames Gladstone viewing him as
a guard.
He is a guy that I will saythis.
I think it's some guards outthere that have showcased a
little bit more power than him,but at the same time, you know
he's playing tackle.
So you know, a lot of timesit's not about power, he's

(57:18):
relying on agility and you knowhe's dealing with as we've said
in the past feel like defensiveends and edge rushers, who are
arguably some of the mostathletic people on the planet,
not just in football.
So you know it's not sometimeswhen you're dealing with the
left tackle position, it's notreally about like you don't get
to see a prospect's power likeyou would like to, but I think

(57:41):
he would be just fine at guard.
All of that said, and he's aprospect that if they take him
at five, I totally understand it.
Some people will be likeCampbell at five and you're
going to put him at guard.
That's probably not the bestusage of your resources or a top
five pick, but we've seenTrevor Lawrence beat to a pulp.

(58:04):
I'm at a point where I'm justready to start protecting my
quarterback man and keeping himupright and if that requires a
fifth round, fifth overall pick,that's fine.
I mean, like you look at howguards can change the dynamic of
the run game and not only justthat, change things in terms of
protecting Trevor Lawrence,right, you look at guards who've

(58:25):
been taken early within the top10 picks, like Quentin Nelson,
right, and while the Colts havetheir share of issues, one thing
their quarterback hasn't had toworry about is getting the crap
knocked out of them from theinterior.
You know not, at least whenQuentin Nelson's, you know on
whoever he's on.
So you know I'm ready to havethat for my quarterback right,

(58:48):
and I think well, will Campbellwould provide that.
I think that's you know I'mready to have that for my
quarterback and I think, well,will Campbell would provide that
.
I think that's you know.
The Jaguars mindset.
And also, again, as we said,man, getting that run game going
that Liam Cohen justreinvigorated over there with
the Bucs Right, they were like28th in the run and then, you
know, liam gets there.
He puts emphasis on a run game.

(59:09):
They jumped to like top five,top four, something like that.
Will Campbell is the kind ofguy that I could see them
exactly looking at and sayinglike that kid's a guard.
He could do good things for usand he could change the dynamic
of this offense and for thatreason I put him on my list.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
Yeah well, campbell, a number 10 on Kuyper's
pre-combined big board andnumber eight on daniel
jeremiah's uh.
Daniel jeremiah said campbellhas ideal height, bulk and
athleticism for his position inpast pro.
He stays square, bends well andkeeps his hands in tight.
He will expose his chest attimes due to his lack of ideal

(59:48):
uh length, but he's able torecover after giving up some
initial ground.
He can slide and redirect withease.
He flashes the upper bodystrength to torque and control
defenders In the run game.
He can wash defenders on downblocks and he stays attached to
and through the whistle.
Some teams will be moreconcerned than others with his
lack of length, but I don't seeit as a major issue.
More concerned than others withhis lack of length, but I don't

(01:00:08):
see it as a major issue.
He is just scratching thesurface of his potential and
should start a tackle for adecade, provided he stays
healthy.
Again, I would be very happywith this selection, even at
number five, as opposed toKelvin Banks, where I think you
should trade back a little bitif that's a guy you were going
to target.
But yeah, I'm right there withyou, jay Campbell.

(01:00:29):
I think you can slot him in atguard and again fits the mold of
a guy who I think you couldmove around in terms of either
tackle or guard or, you know, ifthings don't work out with
Walker Little.
What was his deal?
Walker Little's deal was just awhat was like a two or three
year extension, right, so it'snot like we're locked into
Walker Little permanently forfor an extended amount of time.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
If you bring in a guy like campbell, he could very
well be the left tackle of thefuture yeah, yeah, and that
blurb you mentioned, you know,something that I saw too in
terms of what impresses me abouthim.
Yeah, the ability to slide andand, uh, redirect really stood
out.
Um on, that's definitelysomething that I agree with DJ

(01:01:12):
on.
And yeah, man, I would be againman with what I saw Trevor
Lawrence go through these lasttwo years.
Man, I'm ready, man, I'm readyto start investing high picks
into the you know, and not tosay Trent did it but didn't do
it, but I'm ready to, you know,to start investing, if it takes

(01:01:34):
it, top 15 picks in, you know,getting what we need for Trevor
Lawrence.
So, look, they take WillCampbell.
I'm all for it, especially whenconsidering Liam Cohen's
expertise with offensive lineand offensive lineman.
I really trust his decisionmaking there and his thought
process there.
And yeah, man, I'll be, I'll be, so game to get Will Campbell,

(01:01:58):
man.
So I don't know about you, man,but this draft can't get here
fast enough.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Yeah, this would, like I said, be a really, really
great pick for Trevor and forthe team overall.
But let's get to the last guy,jay.
We left him for last as we kindof wrap up this episode,
because I think it's probablythe most obvious guy on pretty
much everybody's list theJaguars draft position down the

(01:02:31):
stretch because you know wedidn't want to fall too far out
of the range of getting oneTravis Hunter, who I think, if
you ask a lot of people, draftexperts is the crown jewel of
this draft.
Now that's kind of shifting aswell to Abdul Carter from Penn
State.
We obviously didn't really talkabout pass rushers here in this
episode.
I'm sure that will probablycome out through this whole
process as we lead up to April.

(01:02:52):
But J Travis Hunter is theprize not for just Jacksonville
but for a lot of teams and Idon't know.
I mean you're looking at thefour teams that select before
Jacksonville Tennessee,cleveland, new York and New
England and you can make theargument that any of those teams
could take him before five andeach one of them would.

(01:03:14):
You know you'd be totally finewith them making that pick.
So we know what Travis Hunterbrings to the table.
I will read the Daniel Jeremiahblurb, which I think is the
longest one he has on here onhis big board.
Hunter is a lean athleticplaymaker who started on both
sides of the ball for theBuffaloes, winning the Heisman
Trophy in 2024.

(01:03:34):
He has a narrow frame and is avery smooth, flowing athlete.
On defense, he was muchimproved in 2024.
He didn't take as manyunnecessary risks at cornerback,
relying more on discipline andtechnique to stay in position.
He can locate the ball andpicked it off seven times over
the past two seasons.
On offense, he is creative inhis release to escape press.

(01:03:55):
As a receiver, he is constantlychanging gears to keep
cornerbacks off balance and henever wastes steps.
At the top of his route hedrops his weight and explodes
out of the break.
He has elite body control andhands.
He can pluck balls well outsidehis frame with grace and ease
After the catch.
He is silky, smooth and elusive.
He doesn't have elite top speed, but he's fast enough to not

(01:04:16):
get caught.
My only concern is the questionof how long will he be able to
physically hold up if hecontinues to play both wide
receiver and a cornerback fulltime at the professional level?
I believe there is a way forhim to make an impact on both
sides of the ball, but it willlikely require him majoring in
defense with a minor in offense.
So, jay, I don't know that theycan stand packed at five and

(01:04:38):
get him, although I have seenmock drafts where they get him
at number five.
Do you think that there is anypossibility of that happening?
Once again, I think it's goingto have to depend on those
quarterbacks, right?
So any realistic possibilitythat he is there at five and
they can take him without makingany moves.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Man, look, phil, we've seen it.
We've been doing this longenough to know that anything can
happen, right?
If you would have asked us many, many years ago if we would be
expecting Jalen Ramsey to bethere for the taking for us when
that happened, we would havecalled you crazy, right?
I don't think beforehand we hadJalen Ramsey falling to us in

(01:05:18):
any of the mock drafts wepreviously did or discussed, or
any discussions we hadpreviously.
If you would have told us wewould have got Josh Allen at
what it was like seven, eight,um.
When we got him back in what?
2017, whatever it was that wegot him as well, we would have
called you crazy.
We just sat there and literallyhe just fell in our laps.

(01:05:39):
Man, you just never know withthis league, especially when
you're dealing with a leaguethat's so infatuated and
rightfully so with fixing thequarterback position, um.
So if we roll around a draftday and he does fall to us, I
wouldn't be shocked.
I don't think it'll happen,though.
Kind of going back to thatconversation we had about the

(01:05:59):
combine, I didn't read anythingabout how he interviewed at the
combine, so I'm just gonna lethim say that he interviewed fine
, but I think like that's whatwill shoot his draft.
Well, what will prevent himfrom falling to us?
He probably interviewed so wellat the combine.
If I had to guess again, Ihaven't seen anything about how

(01:06:21):
he interviewed, but he probablyinterviewed so well.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
He's just a good kid, you know.
He's just he, he doeseverything the right way.
One thing that really stuck outto me was remember two years
ago where the Colorado State kid, you know, hit him.
There was a late hit and thatkid was getting like death
threats and stuff like that andTravis brought him on his

(01:06:46):
YouTube channel, the ColoradoState player, so they could show
that there was no hard feelingsLike right then.
And there I was like oh, thiskid's different.
That's the one thing that Ialways thought about and that
when I really recognized, likeoh, this is a, this is a special
person too.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
Right, exactly Phil, and he's a better man than me
because I don't think I couldhave did that.
I don't think I could havebrought Dool on, you know.
Oh man, I don't even want todiscuss how that would have went
if I had the athletic abilityand the teammates to fix that
situation.
That would have ended up with abig-time altercation on the

(01:07:28):
field, you know.
But all of that said man, yeah,you're right, he's just a good
kid and I would think heinterviewed.
Well, now, I did see, and Idon't know who this was.
It could have just, it mightnot have been anybody major.
But now that I'm thinking aboutit, I did see one person say
that owners might be concernedabout him having like a Jalen

(01:07:49):
Ramsey mentality in terms ofbeing kind of hard to deal with
from that perspective.
But I don't get that.
I don't get that inkling fromhim.
And, as you just said, I forgotall about that situation where
he had the situation with theColorado State kid and they
patched it up.
That speaks volumes about whatkind of a person you're dealing

(01:08:11):
with now as a, as a player.
Oh, man, if he's there, youknow, by all means run up to the
podium, throw the podium andjust announce the pick, you know
, to us because, um, I would, Iwould love to have him, man,
especially.
You know I've always said this.
We we've had this discussion inthe past.
Um, I've always said this.
You know, if he has to choose aposition to settle at, yeah,

(01:08:34):
I'm with Daniel, settle him atcornerback.
That'll be his primary positionin the league.
I think he's a phenomenalcornerback and when you look at
just how our cornerbacks haveperformed too, it's a big time
need there.
You know what I'm saying.
Like Tyson Campbell, you knowI'm a Georgia Bulldogs fan, but
I can admit that I don't thinkthey should have gave him that

(01:08:55):
contract.
They gave him and, lo andbehold, I was right about that.
Right, because he wasn'thealthy for some of the season,
right?
So he keeps having these softtissue issues and what have you?
And look man, I'm hopeful thatTyson will become a good player
one day.
But he has to show us thatright, he has to be available.
The best ability isavailability.

(01:09:16):
Right, and you know all of theconcerns I had about him are
kind of showing up when theygave him the contract at least.
Again, his potential is throughthe roof.
But you know they need aquarterback back.
I mean that secondary was.
We talked about earlier thisdefense and how they looked in
the trenches.
That secondary was hard towatch too.

(01:09:36):
It was god awful, like you know.
I could argue they should justgo ahead and replace the whole
secondary, but you know theycan't do that, obviously because
they got money tied to Tyson, alot of money.
They just got Savage last year,so it's probably some money
there tied into him Significantmoney as well.

(01:10:05):
But you know like it made me.
I was so disgusted with what Isaw out of that secondary that I
, you know, if it was me, I'd betrying to replace the whole
secondary.
That being said, I like TravisHunter as a cornerback prospect.
I like Travis Hunter as acornerback prospect, love him as
a receiver prospect too, but Ithink he could really help us
tremendously patch up a need atcornerback.
Because you know we've seen youknow somebody who I've tried to
praise and give a shot and youknow be hopeful on Monteric
Brown get too many shots outthere right because of injuries

(01:10:26):
and it hasn't gone great.
We've seen all these othercornerbacks out there get
attempts and shots at and thenjust fail at it as well, not to
say that they aren't goodcornerbacks from the perspective
of your number.
You know three to four or fiveguys, but in terms of stepping
in as a starter, they fellmiserably at it, you know, and

(01:10:46):
it hasn't been great.
But yeah, um, as, as danieljeremiah mentioned, you know,
always has his eyes on the ballwhen it's up in the air, which
you know, and it hasn't beengreat.
But yeah, um, as, as danieljeremiah mentioned, you know,
always has his eyes on the ballwhen it's up in the air, which
you know.
That's been something thatwe've griped about with tyson
right.
So from that perspective, he'sthe exact opposite of tyson with
locating the ball.
Um, and you know the, the bodycontrol, the athletic ability to

(01:11:07):
just do both things play bothreceiver and cornerback.
You know that speeds volumesabout him.
Again, yeah, he'll have to belimited to very little offensive
snaps on the offensive side ofthe ball, but that excites me
too, like the few offensiveplays he's out there.
I'm excited about what Liam candial up for him when he is out

(01:11:27):
there offensively, if they dothat, if they choose to, and I
think that would kind of besomething Liam had to fight with
himself internally with, like,do I put this kid out there and
risk him getting hurt on offense, or would the payoff be worth
it Would he could provide to usin offense or on offense.
But yeah, man, I love TravisHunter, the cornerback, and I

(01:11:49):
would be more than happy if hefell to us.
And don't rule it out, phil, toanswer your question, do not
rule it out because theJacksonville Jaguars have had
significant luck, great luckwhen it comes to a prospect
falling to them in the top sevenor so picks.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
That shouldn't be there yeah, that is absolutely
true proof of concept right herein the building.
So stranger things havehappened in the draft.
And, yeah, to add him to yourfranchise again.
I know the term generationaltalent, generational athlete has
kind of fallen out ofpopularity here in the last few

(01:12:25):
years.
People don't like to throw thataround as much, but Travis
Hunter is one of those guys.
Again, what he does for you inthe football field and, I think,
what he does for you in thecommunity.
I will say there is one thing,jay, that he did over the
weekend and you can attest tothis as a big baseball fan.
He did say that what he does ismore difficult than what Shohei

(01:12:45):
Itani does over there with theDodgers, and that is just untrue
for those of us and for thoseof you listeners that have
played baseball or even justwatch baseball.
You know that hitting abaseball is probably the most
difficult thing to do in sports,and then also turning around
and being a top tier pitcher.
I don't know that we're goingto see that again anytime soon

(01:13:07):
in baseball.
So, travis, respectfully, thatis incorrect.
I want to know if you're goingto see that again anytime soon
in baseball.
So, travis, respectfully, thatis incorrect.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
I want to know if you're on the same page, jay
absolutely, of course, hittingthe ball was the first thing
that came out of like.
To my mind, it's like no travis, you don't know how hard it is
to hit a baseball and if youdon't, please go to somebody's
batting cage and quickly findout.
Um, and I mean, even youmentioned the pitching too.

(01:13:33):
Man, like I know they didn'tuse him a lot as a pitcher, if
at all.
Last year the Dodgers did, butwhen he was a pitcher, when he
was pitching with the angelsdude, he was smoking people
throwing straight gas.
Man, like he was a legitpitcher.
So to say, you can match whatthat man did as a, you know, a

(01:13:54):
two-sided athlete, offensive and, um, you know, offensive.
Well, yeah, offensive and adefensive athlete for the
baseball, for the diamond, um,side of things is that's kind of
insane travis, but I like yourconfidence, I like confidence,
so he's not lacking there.

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
Listen, man, I just saw Paul Skeens throw a nasty
cutter in spring training.
So when Travis Hunter can dothat, then he can let me know,
because yeah, it's not evenclose, travis, you know what.
Yeah, it's, it's not even close, travis, you know what.
That statement, just rightthere, should have him fall to

(01:14:38):
at least number five in thedraft.

Speaker 2 (01:14:38):
I think he needs to be, he needs to be reprimanded
for that and no one Right.
That's his punishment.
That's his punishment.
Any team in the top four passon Travis Hunter for that
statement alone for that take.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
Yeah, no, undraftable before number five.
So, jay, those are some picksor some players here that we
would love to see the teamtarget, you know, maybe not
necessarily at number five as wementioned, but just kind of in
the first round.
In general, as we'll kind ofwrap up this episode, we're
running a little bit longer thanwe wanted to here, but again we

(01:15:10):
had a lot to catch up on andalso I wanted to talk about
these players To end the episode, to kind of wrap up here, I
want you to talk about what wediscussed before we started
recording and also what hereported himself.
This player at the Combine ishe did not meet with the Jaguars
.
It seems like Jacksonville's notinterested in Will Johnson.
I mean, I'm wondering, maybepeople were expecting us to

(01:15:33):
mention him here in this episodecornerback out of Michigan, and
it seems like you know,obviously the saying is where
there's smoke, there's fire.
There seems to be not even anytype of kindling or even small
embers about the Jaguars beinginterested in Will Johnson.
What do you, what did you thinkabout that?

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
Yeah, man, as we discussed beforehand, that threw
a fork in my whole like listhere, because I love Will
Johnson.
Y'all heard me talking abouthim in the thread and what he
would offer at the cornerbackposition and he didn't work out
at the combine.
So I don't know, you know, ifthat hurt him as well.
Um, normally that doesn't hurta prospect, but I don't know,

(01:16:13):
maybe it was.
You know, something that wassaid in interviews that that
hurt him.
Whatever the case may be, butyeah, that's a red flag man
because, as we mentioned um andI'm I'm blanking on his name the
jaguars have a coach in housethat they brought into the staff
that worked at michigan, right?
Um, and, that being said, likeit's a red flag from the

(01:16:34):
perspective of you know, somepeople will be like, oh, maybe
they don't want to tilt theiryou know their hat to what they
might do, or you know, maybethey're trying to remain low-key
, like they did with BlakeBortles.
Remember we were real low-keyand discreet about drafting
Blake Bortles and showinginterest in him.
The only thing that kind ofindicated we would do it was Gus
Bradley shaking his hand at thecombine, but nobody put it

(01:16:57):
together then, or I think it wasthe combine or his pro day.
It might have been his pro day,but I digress from the point.
But I don't think it's asituation like that where
they're trying to, you know, notshow interest in him.
They'd like throw teams off,because I mean, eventually, with
where the Jaguars are.
You know, you're still gonnahave an opportunity to meet with

(01:17:20):
them, whether it's, you know,not necessarily at the combine,
but you can also meet with themin terms of one of your
in-person interviews at thefacility or whatever the case
may be.
So yeah, man, I thought thatwas a very interesting situation
.
I'll say that they didn'tinterview him and you know I
would love to be a fly on thewall in the war room as to like

(01:17:42):
why, or if he's on the draftboard, or he's lower on a draft
board than he should be, becausethat is an intriguing situation
when looking at it from theperspective of his ability at
the cornerback position, and thejaguars need at the cornerback
position.

Speaker 1 (01:17:59):
That definitely raised my antennas when it, you
know, when that news came outyeah, you know, just hearing his
name consistently uh, you know,through draft twitter and
obviously, and also on jaguarTwitter in terms of a guy that
we'd like to see them target,just doesn't seem like there is
any type of traction there.
Plenty of time left, obviously,before the draft and things

(01:18:24):
could happen.
Who knows what happens when itcomes to these pro days and free
agency and all that kind ofstuff.
So just a very interestingthing.
I felt like it was a good ideato close out on if people were
surprised to hear us not mentionhim in this list.
But, jay, I'm sure we're goingto have a lot more to discuss in

(01:18:44):
terms of, also, free agency.
We didn't even start off withfree agency.
That's how excited we are aboutthis draft, but I'm sure we'll
have some lists coming out herein the next few weeks in terms
of content.
But is there anything elseyou'd like to mention before we
wrap up here?
As we gear up to get back to,you know, the weekly format, as
much as we possibly can?
Again, there will be noshortage of content to discuss.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
So anything else you want to mention to our audience
before we get out of here fortonight?
Nah, nothing else, man.
This was a great episode.
Man, it's good to get back intodraft content.
It's always exciting, butespecially now that Trent's gone
and we got a new regime to lookforward to and like we're kind
of in the dark right, we're kindof left guessing and assuming,
you know, with this new regime.
So, yeah, man, like I thinkthis was a great episode.
I enjoyed this one man, and Ican't wait to talk free agency.

(01:19:36):
I forgot to mention, you knowand plug everything earlier in
the podcast.
I'll do it now.
Of course, you can follow us interms of our website,
wwwtouchdownjadwarscom.
We'll get written content up onthere eventually.
Of course, Phil will have itall linked so you all will have

(01:19:57):
a link to go to and check thatout.
But yeah, man, great episode,Can't wait to get back to it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:04):
Absolutely Everything you need is in the Linktree
link in the show notes of thisand every single episode, so
make sure you keep up with us onsocial media, as we will keep
you guys up to date witheverything.
Jacksonville Jaguars.
But folks, that is my co-host,james Johnson.
I am Phil Smith, and do notforget to tune in to Touchdown
Jaguars for each and everyJaguar Touchdown and we will see

(01:20:25):
you next time.

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Episode 110: First-Round Focus - Six Prospects for the Jaguars

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 110: First-Round Focus - Six Prospects for the Jaguars