April 22, 2025 • 52 mins
Luke Easterling, NFL Draft expert from Athlon Sports, provides deep insights on the Jaguars' options with the fifth overall pick in the 2025 NFL Draft and discusses key prospects who could transform the team.
• Jaguars should prioritize selecting a star player at pick #5 rather than trading down, since they already have ten total draft picks
• The elite tier of this draft class includes only three players: Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter, and Ashton Jeanty
• Ashton Jenty represents a special running back talent that could bring game-changing explosiveness the Jaguars currently lack
• Mason Graham is a top-10 talent but the interior defensive line class is deep enough to find similar value in rounds 2-3
• Tyler Warren offers George Kittle-like versatility and could be the tight end that transforms Jacksonville's offense
• Emeka Egbuka stands out as the most polished route runner in the draft who could perfectly complement Brian Thomas Jr.
• Tate Ratledge is unlikely to fall to the third round despite being a perfect fit for the Jaguars' offensive line needs
• Offensive line talent drops significantly after the first two rounds, making it crucial to address early if seeking an immediate starter
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Luke's 2025 NFL Mock Draft: Final 4-Round Projection for Draft Week
James Johnson and Phil Barrera bring you the best and most up to date Jacksonville Jaguars news. "Touchdown Jaguars!" is a tribute to the prospective ownership group "Touchdown Jacksonville!" In 1991, the NFL announced plans to add two expansion teams and "Touchdown Jacksonville!" announced its bid for a team, and Jacksonville was ultimately chosen as one of five finalists. In November 1993, the NFL owners voted 26–2 in favor of awarding the 30th franchise to Jacksonville. James and Phil have been fans of the franchise ever since and have had the honor (and sometimes dishonor) of covering the team professionally since 2017. The rest as they say, is history.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Still running.
And no, that's it.
No, no.
Touchdown Jacksonville 109yards.
Incredible, incredible Playaction.
Votals Upstairs Wide open.
(00:44):
Tommy Bohannon TouchdownJacksonville.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Looking for Jimmy in the end zone.
Touchdown Jaguars, touchdownJaguars, touchdown Jaguars.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast.
Here are your hosts, jamesJohnson and Phil Smith.
Hey everyone, phil Smith here.
Welcome back to another episodeof Touchdown Jaguars.
This week, for our finalepisode before the NFL Draft, we
had NFL Draft expert LukeEasterling on from Athlon Sports
to discuss where the Jaguarscould go in the upcoming 2025
(01:23):
NFL Draft.
Hope you enjoy the episode andmake sure you check out the show
notes for everything you needas far as Touchdown Jaguars
could go in the upcoming 2025NFL draft.
Hope you enjoy the episode andmake sure you check out the show
notes for everything you needas far as Touchdown Jaguars, as
well as all of Luke's work.
But without further ado, let'sget to our conversation with
Luke Easterling.
(01:45):
All right, touchdown Jaguarsaudience.
We have our Jay.
We've been talking about it formonths now.
We're going to get a guest.
We're going to get a guest.
Oh, finally, the week of thedraft.
That time has come and we'rethrilled to welcome in Luke
Easterling, nfl draft analystfor Athlon Sports, but also does
a whole bunch of other writingfor Athlon as well.
So make sure you check out theshow notes of this episode so
(02:05):
you can find all of his work aswell as his final four round
mock draft that dropped heretoday as we're recording, on the
afternoon of April 21st.
Luke, so happy to have you here.
We'll jump right into it.
Before we talk about the draftitself, we want to know what
your thoughts are on thedirection the Jags have gone in
the front office.
We've heard your thoughts inthe spaces on Liam Cohen, but
(02:26):
what about the young GM theyhired in, james Gladstone?
What are your thoughts on himas well?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, well, I mean anybody that's coming from an
organization that's done a goodbit of winning and done a good
bit of innovation in certainways, like they've done with the
Rams.
I think that was probably veryappealing to Shad Khan and
everybody making decisions therein Jacksonville and I think it
shows that you know this hashappened in the coaching ranks
too, where, like all the headcoaches and OCs and DCs are
(02:52):
starting to get younger andyounger and younger and, like
teams are being more bold intheir decision-making process
and bringing in some of thesepeople that you know are younger
and more inexperienced but theyclearly have their finger on
the pulse of the innovative sideof the way the game is being
played on both sides of the ball, and I think that's being
reflected in hires like JamesGladstone on the front office
(03:13):
side, where you've got thesepeople that have, you know,
don't have a ton of years ofexperience under their belt but
they have a keen understandingof the direction that the league
is going in all those differentways, and I think that's just
reflected in that hire.
So I think you know you'reseeing some similarities where
you know they're gettingcreative with not doing the top
30 visits like they did with theRams, and trying to find
(03:33):
creative ways to meet with theprospects instead and do it
different ways.
Everything I've heard from himsounds if I was a Jagu I'd be
I'd be excited about thedirection that things are going.
I think that again, it's justthere's a lot of trends
happening across the league, youknow, one of which my favorite
one is the fact that they'refinally letting all of these
(03:55):
incredible college quarterbacksstay as damn quarterbacks and
and not moving them to positionsthat that they haven't played,
and so there's so many ways inwhich NFL I feel like it's
finally getting out of their ownway and being like, oh, maybe
we should do this and stop justdoing things the way we always
have.
And I think that again isreflected in them being willing
to give younger guys like JamesGladstone a chance, and again,
(04:15):
he's going to have to go makehis hay with it, he's going to
have to make good decisions andthey're going to have players,
but I think the idea of givingsome of these innovative minds a
chance to see if they can hang,I like it.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, Jay, we're seeing more and more of these
younger guys like Luke talkedabout.
You know, just kind of layingin wait and learning and seeing
what works and, more importantly, what does not work.
And it's been very apparentwhat has not worked here over
the last few years, right, Jay?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
So you know, the youth movement is something
we've been calling for for quitesome time, for sure yeah, you
know we've had this discussionmany, many times and we might
even say that in the space withluke.
But I mean, like for thejaguars, it's not like doing
things the old school way andhaving these older gms has
worked for them, like their lasttwo, like higher ups, were
(05:04):
tomoughlin and Trent Baalke Likeout of that work for him.
You know, both of those bearshort term success and then,
right after they had success,everything went off the cliff.
So it's like why not trysomething new, you know, and
fresh and shy kind of kind of healluded to that when you know
they started this search.
It's like why not try somethingfresh and innovative?
(05:24):
Right, like we've been there,done that.
Let's go with the young kid,youngest GM in the league.
So, yeah, man, I mean, I likethat the NFL is like kind of
learning from its mistakes,because it didn't always be that
way, like they kept and it'sstill that way in some ways,
especially with quarterbacks.
Right, they can never figureout quarterbacks in this league,
(05:46):
but for the most part, though,like they are starting, we
starting to see like that youthmovement, them being more
willing to go the youthful routeand what have you.
But yeah, luke, my question is,man, you know there's a lot of
chatter and in terms of what thejazz are going to do and I even
saw Todd McShay say today likethe draft doesn't start until
(06:06):
pick five because everythingelse is pretty much known, like
those first four picks.
We know what's going to happenfor the most part Travis, hunter
, abdul Carter, right and so onand so forth.
So, that being said, you knowwhen you get to five, that's
when the draft is really goingto start and you know the Jazz
could trade out, could staythere.
You know, time will tell on it.
(06:27):
But my thoughts, well, I wantto ask about your thoughts on
Mason Graham, because there is alot of talk surrounding him
going top five, but a lot ofpeople also have their
reservations, like we've seenPete Prisco recently come out
and say, like you know, afterwatching some more film I don't
know, like at one point in timehe wanted Mason Graham and it's
(06:49):
like he's kind of not thereanymore and you see a lot of
that, just a lot of wavering, Iguess, faith in Mason Graham.
What are your thoughts on him asa prospect?
Is he the route to go with picknumber five?
And yeah, man, like what doesthe film say to you in terms of
what you've seen out of MasonGraham?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah.
So a couple of things on that.
I think you touched on the ideaof trading out real quick and I
think the thing for the Jags isthey need to.
They need star players.
They don't need more.
They've got 10 picks already.
They've got two thirds, twofourths, two sixths Like they've
got the ammo.
They've got two thirds, twofourths, two sixths.
They've got the ammo.
They're picking in the top five.
They need a top five player.
Go ahead and just take theplayer.
They're not one of those teams.
(07:33):
Like Minnesota or Washington,there's teams that are missing
those day two picks that theyneed to move around and recoup
those.
The Jags are not that team.
I think the Jags need as muchhigh-end talent as possible and
to me that means sticking andpicking at five.
That said at five, the thingI've said over the last couple
weeks about Mason Graham I thinkhe's a really good football
player.
I think he's top ten on myboard.
He's the best of a really deepclass of interior defensive
(07:55):
linemen in this class.
But to that end, I think theclass is so deep that if the
Jags are picking what is it?
37, 36, something like that atthe top of the second round, the
difference between Mason Grahamand the defensive lineman that
you can probably get there,whether it's Darius Alexander
from Toledo, tyleek Williamsfrom Ohio State, if you need
(08:16):
more of a nose, even guys likeTJ Sanders from South Carolina,
who I really like, the gapbetween Mason Graham and those
guys is just not that big to me.
I really don't think that ifyou're telling me I have to
spend the number five overallpick to get Mason Graham or I
can get any of those guys I justmentioned in the second round,
it makes me feel less inclinedto spend that elite pick on a
(08:37):
guy like Mason Graham and again,I think he's one of the top 10
players in this draft.
I just think that that tier ofprospects across all positions,
there's three elite guys in thisclass.
To me, it's Travis Hunter, it'sAbdul Carter and it's Ashton
Genting.
That's it.
That's that first tier ofprospect From four to like 35,
there's not a ton of movementthere.
(08:57):
There's really not a giantdifference between those guys,
and so I think for a team likeJacksonville I think that's why
you're here in the conversationabout ashton gentry at five
right now coming out of some ofthese, these insiders with a few
days left to go is that, if, ifthat intel is correct, if it's
coming from a genuine placewithin that building, I think,
(09:17):
if I, if I'm james gladstone, ifI'm liam cone, if I'm anybody
in that process, I'm lookingaround and i'm'm seeing who are
the difference makers in thisclass.
There's so few of them.
And if Ashton Gentry's on theboard when we pick, he's one of
those three guys that Imentioned.
He's one of those threesuperstar players Talk about the
value of the running backposition all day long, but he's
a special player and so I thinkhe is where that conversation
(09:40):
probably starts.
Tyler Warren is the other guythat I would put in that
conversation as guys that again,you cleared the path.
You got rid of Evan Ingram, soyou have an opening there.
I know Brenton Strange, recentsecond round pick, so I know
they liked him a good bit.
But Tyler Warren is one of thoseguys that I've had him mock to
the Jags for about a month now,just because I think that is a
pick where I could see LiamCohen getting involved in the
(10:01):
process and saying, man, justget me that guy, get me that guy
to help out Trevor Lawrence totransform the offense.
He can do everything.
He can play in line.
He can line up everywhere so hedoesn't give up anything in
terms of formations, bigphysical guy.
There's so many different waysthey could go.
Mason Graham has always feltlike the safe pick for them and
I just I hate the idea of safepicks because, a there's no such
(10:22):
thing and B I think on filmhe's a very, very good football
player.
I just don't see a massivedifference between him and the
next five or six defensivelinemen in this class and I
think there is a big differencebetween Ashton Genting and the
rest of the running back class,guys like Tyler Warren.
Maybe even Colston Loveland isclose to him for me, but that
next tier of tight ends is wayaway.
(10:43):
And again, I think if they'regoing to stick and pick at five,
which I think they should do,barring a really stupid trade
that could give them additionalresources, maybe in next year's
draft.
That's why I wouldn't beshocked to even see a guy like
Jenty, because he's, at the endof the day, he's one of the
three truly elite players inthis draft and I can't go wrong.
If I'm those guys building, ifI'm truly going to go best
(11:05):
player available, he's going tobe that guy man, phil.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
In a lot of ways luke sounds like me, right?
These are conversations me andyou have had right.
I went with tyreek williams inthe second round of my only mock
right because I didn't and Ieven said it in the last podcast
it was hard to leave masongraham there.
I traded back, actually, in mymock.
(11:29):
It was hard to leave masongraham there, but at the end of
the day I didn't see a bigdifference between ty league and
mason graham, and that'sexactly that.
He summed up my mindset of whatI was thinking, Phil, when I
made that mock draft.
So, that being said, man, youhit the nose on the head with
that in terms of how I felt.
And then the other thing youmentioned right was just the
(11:52):
fact that the Jaguars just needto take the best player there
right.
Trading back, even though I'vedone it and Phil has done it,
doesn't necessarily help them.
And the reason for that isbecause I've said this too is
when you look at the Jaguars,they're kind of in a weird space
where they're picking in thetop five but all of the premium
(12:13):
positions on their team aretaken care of.
It's kind of odd to see, right,you know, that's well, that's
the Trent Baalke effect right.
Leave it the Trent Baalkeeffect right.
Leave it for Trent Baalke toget a bunch of premium picks and
do nothing with it.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
How did we get here Right?
Gee, I wonder.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Right, there you go.
So, no, like they have thequarterback, right, they have.
Well, we hope they have thequarterback.
They paid him last year.
They have Brian Thomas Jr.
They have a premium, you know,draft pick there in him, pick
there in him.
And then they have thedefensive end positions as well.
(12:48):
So all of the premium positionson this team is set, you know,
essentially, but it's justeverything between those
positions that is not set right.
So, yeah, you're right, likewhen you say that they might
just need to stay there and pickthe player.
That's what the outlook oftheir roster looks like.
It's like, hey, we need to juststay here, add another player
with these premium guys.
We got to add another premiumtalent with it, whether it's
(13:10):
Jenty or whoever the case may be.
But yeah, I mean a lot ofthings you said there, luke,
like I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
A couple of specific things about Jenty and Tyleek
Williams real quick.
This whole you know idea that,oh, you can get running backs
later.
You can get running backs later.
Yeah, yeah, you can get runningbacks later.
You can get decent runningbacks later.
The Jaguars have decent runningbacks.
Tank Bigsby is all right.
Travis Etienne's all right.
I think they work well together.
Are either of those two guysscaring anybody on a regular
(13:42):
basis?
Are they superstar players?
No, and that's okay.
Again, you can get productiverunning back, especially in this
class loaded running back class.
I think there's going to bereally productive runners on the
board in the fourth round.
Do you want a special one?
Because if you want a specialone, you've got to take them
early.
You've got to take them at two,like Saquon Barkley.
You've got to take them ateight, like Bijan Robinson, At
12, like J.
That's where you have to draftthose guys If you want somebody
special, and we've seen how thespecial ones make a difference.
(14:06):
Derrick Henry, who was a secondround pick he was a little bit
of a unicorn in terms of hismeasurements so people didn't
really know what he could be,but that's why those guys got
paid.
Christian McCaffrey was a top10 pick.
Like those guys.
If you want the special ones,you gotta pay for them.
So if you're okay with, okay,you can wait until the third or
fourth round and that's fine.
If you want the guy that's goingto hurdle over people backwards
(14:27):
or turn three would-be tacklersinto a 60-yard touchdown 20
times a year, like Ashton Gentryjust did at Boise State, that's
worth the top five top ten pick.
It really is.
And Tyleek Williams is the guywho, whoever takes him in the
draft, their fans are going tobe like okay, it's kind of
boring, it's whatever.
Five years from now, every fanof that team is going to be like
(14:48):
hell, yeah, Ty Leak.
I'm so glad we took that guybecause he's going to make sure
that the other team can't runthe ball on you.
He's going to be the reasonevery offense is in third and
seven plus all the time, becausethey can't run the ball,
because that dude is eating updouble teams, that dude's
blowing up plays in thebackfield.
He's he's boring, he's not sexy, but he is the type of player
that a couple years down theroad you can be like man.
(15:08):
I'm so glad that guy's on myteam I agree.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
I agree.
I mean, that's the guy you wanteating double teams for mason
smith, right, they?
They have something there inmason smith, I believe at least
he just got a lot, yeah.
So like pairing him with withwith Mason sounds like a great
idea to me, and you're rightabout the whole thing.
Sometimes you have to askyourself and I struggle with
this personally to takingrunning backs in the first round
(15:33):
.
But I'm also, secondarily, aFalcons fan and I've watched
what B John Robinson has donefor them.
He's a walking first down,right, yeah, so there's that.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Every time those guys touch the ball, everybody else
who is opposed to them is like,ah, damn it, do it, don't, do it
, don't.
Uh, you're scared, you'refreaked out every time that guy
touches the ball.
Like those guys aren't in thefourth round, you're not going
to get those guys in the fourthround.
You're going to get guys likebrian robinson jr in washington
great, solid running back, gonnaget you my, uh, my buddy, doug
farrar, who works with me atathlon sports, told me today we
were doing our podcast and hewas like brian robinson is the
(16:07):
guy who, if you need four yards,he'll get you five.
If you need seven yards, he'llget you five.
Like that, those types ofrunning backs, they do grow on
trees, like they're everywhere.
Like you can get those guys,man, if you want the guy that.
Every time he touches the ball,everybody else is like, uh, I
don't know what he's going tolike, I'm scared about what's
about to happen.
Those guys don't come cheap.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
You're right, and I look at it from this perspective
, with like when Bijan touchesthe ball, even people that are
in position are out of position.
Like it's literally like it'sfunny.
To me when I watch him on filmit's like, yeah, that dude was
in position to make the play.
He still didn't make the play.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
It's so many times you can see that on film with
bijan, so for you to say guys,just like chasing him down, feel
like I had you.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I was there.
I was there, I knew where youwere going.
Yeah, a lot of good it did.
You guys see me?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I knew you were gonna be there.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
I knew you were gonna be there.
And then the last thing I'lladd is the last time the jaguars
took that kind of a gamble, ifyou want to call it that, it
paid dividends.
That was Leonard Fournette,right, and we you know to this
day.
You know, say what you wantabout Tom Coughlin and that
regime, but when they tookLeonard Fournette to help Blake
Bortles, they almost went to theSuper Bowl.
(17:16):
So that's a.
You make a good point there.
Like for me to sit here and saythat I'm scared to take a
running back that high is alittle crazy when looking at the
facts we just laid out.
Like you know, you might makeme a gentee guy by the end of
this, this podcast.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
I mean, and hey, and I think no offense to to Lenny,
you know I'm a Bucs guy and I'llbe, uh, I'll be indebted to uh
to Lenny, uh, till the day I diefor that Super Bowl run man.
But Ashton Gentee is a is abetter prospect all around as a
running back than LeonardFournette was coming out.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Wholeheartedly, 100%.
Yeah, easily, easily to me.
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, you touched on some things too that a lot of us
I think some people are alsohaving those discussions and
also us in the group chat, jay,when we're talking about Mason
Graham, because it does seemlike and listen, the Jaguars are
already not a topic ofdiscussion for national media
just because we're the Jaguars.
So it seems like Mason Grahamis just the plug in the plug in
(18:16):
guy for that number five pick.
So we can move on and you knowwe understand why they're in
that position not a whole lot toreally talk about, but we have
been seeing those lines move andwhen Vegas talks people listen.
So we've been hearing thechatter about Jenty.
So I'm glad we're getting a lotof this discussion now.
So you actually got a littlebit ahead of some of the
questions we had for Jenty, sothat worked out perfectly.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I was going to say, the more names I threw out there
, I was like, yeah, I think I'mprobably getting ahead of that.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
But isn't that rich though?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Isn't afterthought and like now that all the first
four picks feel like chalk, nowthey're becoming interesting to
the jacks like oh you're lovingme now, aren't you?
Yeah, I'm interesting to younow, huh yeah, what is it?
Speaker 1 (18:49):
schefter today said well, don't pay attention to
jacksonville, like I mean, wejust we've been here the whole
time.
Yeah, well, just hanging out.
But I want to stick withrunning back because even though
you still have mason grahamslotted to jacksonville at five,
you do have another guy that weare big fans of here in our
group and over here in thepodcast at pick 126 and RJ
Harvey.
(19:09):
So I was wondering if you couldtalk about him.
If we don't go the fast andgentry route which Jay and I are
both coming around to at picknumber five, but say they just
go with running back a littlebit later, can you talk a little
about RJ Harvey?
You know a guy that's just downthe road from us a guy, that's
just down the road from us.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
You know that I like a prospect if I'm willing to
talk up a ucf guy because I'm anusf grad so I hate ucf, uh,
with a passion.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
And so rj harvey, you know he's gotta have the goods.
If I'm if I'm gonna pump him up, but no, I I think I saw
somebody I can't remember who itwas that was like he could be
this year's bucky irving in.
That they're not necessarily thesame prospect where it's just
like that fourth round runningback that slips through the
cracks, that once you go back tothe film after he's taken
(19:51):
you're like, oh okay, there'ssomething there.
Because again it feels like UCFis kind of one of those
programs like the Jaguars, whereit's like nobody really thinks
about it a whole lot until it'stime to have you know, a Brandon
Marshall or a Dante Culpepperor you, you know somebody coming
out of that program.
They've had some good ones, butno, rj Harvey, I think, is just
a really well-rounded back whois tough between the tackles.
(20:11):
He can.
He can give you enoughexplosiveness.
He's probably not going to runaway from everybody at the next
level but he's got some wiggleand and again catches the ball
nicely out of the backfield.
Just does everything at a highenough level to where he is that
type of running back whereAshton Gentry is the cream of
the crop, you got to take him inthe top five to get him.
But if you want a thousand yardrusher who can be on the field
(20:31):
all three downs and fill anytype of role, rj Harvey checks
those boxes Like he can do allof those things at a high enough
level to be starting qualityand I think again the fact that
every time I do these three andfour round mock drafts, every
time I get to the end of a round, I'm like how in the world did
I not get these two or threeguys in there?
And it's always at particularpositions, and running back
continues to be one of them.
I routinely get into the fourthround and guys like Harvey,
(20:53):
guys like Dylan Sampson andOllie Gordon the second there's
so many running backs where I'mlike man, I've got, I like the
fit there.
Again, it's not that theJaguars need another body in
that room, necessarily, but withas many picks as they have, if
they stay at all of those spotswhich I don't necessarily expect
them to do it just becomesabout getting the best value at
(21:16):
whatever position you can, andthis running back class is just
so deep that I think that'sgoing to give a lot of teams, a
lot of guys on on third andfourth round where they're just
like man.
There's just far and away thebest player on the board is a
running back and Harvey's one ofthose guys yeah, I was actually
going to ask you about that,because I did.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
I think I heard field yates say today that he
actually believes the runningback class is a little bit
overrated, so do you disagreewith that?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
yeah, nah, I mean it just.
I guess that's in the eye ofthe beholder.
I guess it just depends on whatyou, what your expectations are
then to compare it to, to sayit's overrated, like I.
Just you know it's.
I'm not sure what the criteriaare, but I mean I can jump
through my rankings right here,let's.
Let's look at how I have themstacked here.
I've got 14 running backs witha fourth round grade or higher,
(22:01):
you know.
And even there's guys in thefifth round burchard smith from
smu, tosh brooks from uh, fromtexas tech.
I like a lot.
Um, there's so many guys that Ifeel like can be productive
runners at the next level.
And there's all different typestoo.
You got basialotin who's justlike absolute straight line,
like run through everybody andrun away from everybody else.
I think Devin Neal from Kansasis probably the most underrated
(22:22):
running back in this class.
I loved watching his tape.
Jaden Blue is going to be anasty weapon in the passing game
man Elite speed and just really, really natural as a receiver
out of the backfield can run afull route tree as a running
back it's my guy creates so manymatchup problems.
I know camp Scadaboo is a funguy for a lot of people.
He's going to be that thunderto the lightning, you know, in
some committee backfield and Ithink he's going to do really
(22:48):
well in that role.
Damian Martinez similar type ofguy, but no, I don't think that
group is like that in his owntier as the second best guy.
And then both the Ohio Stateguys Henderson and Judkins I
like a lot.
Caleb Johnson from Iowa Imentioned Dylan Sampson, but DJ
Giddens from Kansas State I meanthere's so many guys in that
group that all of them should begone in the top four rounds and
it's probably not going tohappen.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Yeah, that class is crazy loaded.
I have to go back and look andsee I think I just have two in
my top, like 32.
Yeah, between Amarion and Jenty.
But I'll have to go back andlook.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
But after that, you're right.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Yeah, that's where you see that like cluster of
running backs.
So, yeah, it makes sense, Ithink my question now.
So we were going to ask about,uh, warren, which you already
touched on a little bit.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
So what I'll ask Tyler Warren fan George Kittle
in Rob Gronkowski's body.
I'm not sure who doesn't wantthat yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I was telling Phil that in our last podcast.
I love that kid's film man.
It was times he was takingsnaps out of the backfield.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, wildcat quarterback 6'5", 260.
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Just doing it all.
Man and I love like Loveland islike one of my favorite
prospects in the whole draft,like literally one of my
favorite prospects in the wholedraft, like literally.
Like I almost I looked at mycomputer doc for like two
minutes Like I kind of want toput him above Warren.
But when you look at whatWarren does, like just in
totality, just how many thingshe can do, I was like, nah, I
(24:27):
can't do that.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
That's the thing.
That's the thing, thedifference between them.
They're 1A and 1B.
For me I like Warren more, justbecause I think he's more
complete.
And again, I think,particularly in today's NFL,
having a guy that can doeverything in the passing game
that he does and also be soeffective as a blocker and be
big enough to line him up inline, and you're not giving your
formations away.
A lot of these guys like KylePitts or somebody like if he's
(24:50):
on the field, if he's in line,you're probably play action,
you're probably throwing theball anyway, because that's not
what you're asking him to do.
Most of the time You're givingthings away with how you align
and the personnel you use.
Tyler Warren's out there.
He can be wherever he wants andyou still don't know what the
hell is going to happen.
Colston Loveland is much morein the brand of receiving
specialist, big, oversized slotreceiver.
Basically, it's not that he'snot willing in the running game,
(25:11):
it's just, you know he's ataller, you know, leaner guy, a
little more high cut.
He's not going to give you asmuch effectiveness in the
blocking game but man as a purepass catcher down the field.
Every DB is going to be toosmall and every linebacker is
not going to be athletic enoughto hang with them.
Both of those guys are top 11on my board, so I'm with you,
and there will be teams thathave Loveland higher because of
(25:32):
what they need from the position.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Okay, so I'm not losing my marbles for almost
doing it.
Okay, okay.
That being said, Luke, couldyou talk about we'll switch it
up a little bit, because youtalked about Orrin Could you
talk about the tight end classin general, because you know
this is kudos to Phil on this,like Phil dug this one up.
But Harold Fanning is a guythat, like I, looked at his film
(25:57):
.
I mean, I've read that hedidn't have a great combine, but
I looked at his film I was like, yeah, this kid has some
potential.
Um, and there's a lot of otheryou know uh people in that down
the road, um, uh, helm, gunnerhelm, so on and so forth.
Could you talk about this classin general, because the jaguars
do need to like come out ofthis class with one tight end at
(26:18):
the very least right, okay, so.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
So if they don't take a tight end in the first round,
both of those top guys aregoing to be gone, I think.
I think 14 is the floor forboth of those guys.
They'll both be off the boardby by the end of the colts pick
at 14, you know, accounting forsome movement.
The next tier has two more guysin it Mason Taylor from LSU and
Elijah Arroyo from Miami.
I think both of those guys areprobably going to be top 50
(26:42):
picks, definitely gone by theend of the second round.
I think Taylor could even slideinto the back of the first
round, depending on the teamsthat end up in those slots.
Again, just fairly well-roundedguys.
Arroyo's got a little bit of aninjury history.
It gives him a little bit ofconcern there, but just really
well-rounded guys that catch theball well and will block enough
.
And you mentioned Harold FanninJr.
He's been one of my favoriteguys early on.
I got a chance to speak withhim during the season and
(27:05):
interview him and he's got areally unique story.
He was basically like atwo-star linebacker recruit that
nobody really cared to beinterested in.
I think he had.
You know, he had to work reallyhard to get his grades up, you
know to to qualify, and had tohave some people vouch for him
to get him in the program thereat Bowling Green and he he
rewarded them by staying theretoo.
(27:25):
A lot of people expected him tokind of enter the portal after
you know the 2023 season, causehe had a pretty decent year and
he was.
He was loyal to that programthat stood by him and ended up.
I mean, he led all of collegefootball in receiving last
season in the regular season Allof them receivers, everybody.
He put up ridiculous numbersand for anybody that wants to
come for him about level ofcompetition because he played in
(27:45):
the MAAC, go look at what hedid against Penn State and Texas
A&M, the two best teams heplayed.
He was one of the best playerson the field and he lit them up.
He put 100 on both teams, Ithink, and just was.
Again.
Go look at the big plays, theexplosive plays.
He made them against the bestcompetition he faced.
He's kind of an athleticoutlier.
(28:07):
The testing wasn't great.
But for anybody who's like, oh,he's kind of small, exact same
size as Brock Bowers, so I don'twant to hear it.
He's almost exactly the samesize as Bowers was at the
combine.
So I don't have a problem withhim.
I think he's a lot of fun.
Terrence Ferguson is a guy fromOregon that I think a lot of
teams are going to like Somesimilarities to Mike Gusecki in
(28:29):
Cincinnati in terms of his.
Again, he's just a pure passrushing.
You know, pass catching,specialist, matchup weapon in
the red zone.
You know matchup weapon in thered zone, you know, and
possession guy.
But he's really athletic.
I saw Daniel Jeremiah the otherday comp him to Loveland in a
lot of ways, where he'sbasically Colston Loveland light
.
I think he likes him a littlebit more than I do, but he's a
lot of fun.
You mentioned Gunnar Helm, whoI think is solid, but yeah, you
know, there's going to be acouple of guys in the first
round, a couple of guys in thesecond, a couple of guys in the
(28:51):
third and that are going to bereally productive pros at the
next level.
I think the the depth of thetight end class is pretty solid
yeah, I like that class as awhole man.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
And um, yeah, you, you hit the nail on the head
with um, with what you saidabout fanning cooking to uh
texas a&m.
That was the like the clip thatphil showed me, and I don me.
I won't call the DB's number orname out, but he cooked one DB
in one play twice, shook himtwice.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
You got to go home, then you got to go home and try
to go wrap on the day you getcooked twice.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
You just keep walking to the sideline.
That's what you do, hey, coachman.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
It's not my day.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Throwing the freshman Phil, just a coach man yeah,
it's not going to throw in thefreshman.
But yeah, Phil, you got thenext question.
Go ahead, man.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Really quick to kind of ask what the pairing could be
say if.
If Bretton Strange is going tobe the primary guy, do you have
any insight on what you think hecould be in terms of in Cohen's
scheme?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, I mean Cohen.
Cohen is a guy who likes tomove his tight ends around.
He had a really interestingtight end room in Tampa Bay last
year where they had Kate Ottenwho was kind of the move guy
that could do some certainthings.
Didn't have a ton of you know,a huge ceiling as an athlete,
but just a really reliable guy.
With his hands he can catch theball, he can move around and
line up wherever you need him toMade some really clutch catches
(30:14):
for them.
But they have a little bit ofeverything.
They got Payne Durham, who'slike a big physical target guy.
They drafted Devin Culp out ofWashington last year, who's like
the undersized pure speed guy,and they got Coe Keeft, which is
basically like a fullback thatthey line up all over the place
too.
So he had a bunch of differenttypes of guys and types of roles
.
So strange with his athleticprofile.
(30:35):
Coming out of Penn State, I feellike he's got enough size and
athleticism to do any of thoseroles at a high level and I
think that's what Liam's goingto have to figure out throughout
the offseason program.
It's like what can I put onthis kid's plate and see what he
can do at a high enough levelto let me know what we are going
to need to add to that, to thatroom.
(30:56):
And and I think that's going tobe the challenge for him is
figuring out how much.
How much is he going to be ableto do?
What are we going to be thenmissing?
And hopefully they've, you know, looked at some tape to try to
figure that out, going into thisdraft, to kind of know what
type of tight end they need.
Like Brenton Strange, as anathlete, I think he had some
moments last year, some flasheswhere you see OK, this is why
they probably felt comfortable.
(31:16):
Moving on from Evan Ingram, Seeif he can take that next step.
He's basically like the ParkerWashington of the tight end room
where he saw some of thoseflashes last year, and you're
like let's give this kid alittle more, let's put some more
on his plate Both Penn Stateguys, by the way.
But yeah, I'm interested to seehow, how liam cohen kind of
(31:38):
pushes the envelope with whathe's capable of in all those
different areas.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
The parker washington of the tight end room is spot
on.
That's like the perfect, theperfect way to explain brent.
Strange because, yeah, the youknow, the fan base certainly
wasn't really on board with himat first and then, you know, as
the season went on, things kindof started to change a little
bit.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
So obviously with him having a bigger role, uh, you
know, very interested to see, Ithink I think he's kind of a
prisoner of going a littleearlier than people thought to.
You know when, when you have aguy like that who is a second
round pick that a lot of peopledidn't expect to be a second
round pick, it's almost like weget in this and again I'm I'm
part of the problem, like I'mone of those media people that
has like a top 300 board thatgoes like just top to bottom
without any like indication oflike team fits and scheme fits
(32:22):
and everything like that.
So I'm even guilty of looking ata board and being like, oh, he
was number 76 on this board andhe went 48.
That's a, that's a reachsometimes, but sometimes not.
So I think, for I think forjags fans in particular, like
they were probably a little souron it because they didn't
expect him to be a second roundpick and so they're just like he
(32:43):
better be worth it.
It takes time, man.
It takes time for guys,especially like athletic types
that weren't as polished.
I'm excited to see, uh, what hedoes in this upcoming season,
but I think that's probably partof why the jaguars fans are
like have a little bit higherexpectations for him.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, and also take you back to that draft, Jay.
Remember we're mocking everyother tight end in the draft to
the Jaguars and everyone waslike who the hell is Brenton?
Strange?
So that was also that alsoplayed into it as well.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
So one guy haven't.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Googled.
Yet who is that I?
Who is that I didn't type himinto Twitter?
Hold on now.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Phil, I did tell everybody that that was the guy
that Todd McShay had mentionedin one of the conferences.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
So I was like wait, wait, hold up, hold up.
I have heard of this guy.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
He's like I tried, I tried.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, to kind of keep it in therealm of pass catchers, it
seems like your mindset is alsowhere ours is in terms of taking
a wide receiver early.
You have Luther Burton III atpick number 36 in round two, and
the pick right before that isJay's guy, emeko Igbuka, who's
going to Tennessee.
So I want to see if you cantalk about those two prospects.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
That's doubly bad.
That's doubly bad.
I gave him to the Titans rightahead of you guys, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah, and to the Titans right ahead of you guys,
sorry, yeah, there's been thatchatter from Mio O'Brien right,
jay that if Ibuka is availableat 36, they're going to sprint
to the podium and take him fromwhat she is hearing.
So talk about those two guysand what you see in them, and
also just kind of the widereceiver class in general.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yeah, I mean I gave him Luther Burton III because
it's just like it's crazy thathe would be on the board there
and I think that would usuallythey end up with a corner in
that spot because I like thecorner depth there.
But if, if any of those, ifburden or abuka again emeka
abuka is somehow underrated inthis class and I don't
understand why this is aprobably would have been a first
round pick last year, but justlike every other, you know
(34:31):
underclassmen on that team lastyear they were too pissed off by
how the season ended.
They all came back to win achampionship and they went and
did it.
But Ibuka was already like apolished pro-ready receiver last
year, like coming out of the2023 season.
He was ready to make animmediate impact.
So now he's got another year ofexperience, another year of
polish Just the most polishedpure route runner in the entire
receiver class Absolutely got afirst round grade from me, ahead
(34:53):
of guys like Matthew Golden,ahead of Luther Burden III.
Nabuca ended up in again one ofthe 24 first round grades I gave
out this year.
So I just at worst, he could beone of the best number two
receivers in the league as arookie and I think he's going to
be one of those guys that isjust going to play a long time
and play really, really damngood football for his entire
(35:15):
career.
And when we look back werealize, wow, there were some
flashier guys that you knowcreated some more explosive
plays, I guess.
But nobody from this class wasas consistently productive, and
productive right away.
Because, again, he's sopolished as a route runner and
has a great understanding of thegame.
I think he's going to make animmediate impact.
Just great hands, does all thelittle things well and most of
(35:37):
the big things as well, as youneed him to do, and just because
he doesn't run a 4-3.
But again, you look at a teamlike Jacksonville, that's
exactly the guy they need.
They have the splashy guy.
They've already got that guy.
Give me Emeka Ibuka all daylong.
I guess I wouldn't be shockedif he makes it to the second
(35:58):
round, just because there's only32 picks and and those guys who
aren't quite as flashy tend tofall sometimes.
But, man, it's just hard for meto believe that that that guy
with the experience he has, thepolish, he has, the well-rounded
skill set he has, if he doesn'tgo in the first round man.
What the what the hell are wedoing?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
So early on in this process, you know Jaguar fans
were pretty much, I'll say,penciling in, not maybe putting
it in pen, but Tedaro McMillanwas the guy to pair with BTJ.
What's your read on him?
Because again, we're alsoseeing, we're seeing a lot of
people talk about that him beingnow back in play for pick
number five.
(36:27):
Where does he fit in your talkabout like not, you know, going
safe is not how you want to go.
What's your thought on ifMcMillan were the pick number
five?
Where does he fit in your youtalked about like not, uh, you
know, going safe is not how youwant to go.
What's your thought on ifMcMillan were the pick in five?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I mean I wouldn't hate it.
Uh, again, it's.
It's he's number nine on myboard overall, so I haven't
bought into the whole.
There were, like it feels likethe last month, like before this
week, the last month was justlike this teardown McMillan
campaign where everybody's like,oh, he's gonna go 23rd to the
Packers and I'm like whathappened?
Like what did he lose a foot?
(36:57):
Like what are we talking about?
Like are we talking about thesame guy?
And so like the thing that I'veheard again from some of the
national guys is like somescouts have told them I'm not a
sources guy, I don't have scouts.
Scouts will talk to me.
That's not my game, I'm not,I'm not, I'm not that guy, but I
don't have scouts.
Scouts will talk to me.
That's not my game, I'm not,I'm not, I'm not that guy.
But I'll repeat what they toldthem, which is evidently that he
he's always on cruise control,right, he doesn't.
He likes like everything is soeffortless that it does Like he
(37:18):
kind of relies on the fact thathe's just bigger and more
athletic than everybody and likeI to you can't ignore that,
like that privilege is what itis Like.
But the thing to me is I comeback to the fact that there's
(37:39):
only so many human beings on theplanet that are that big and
that athletic that can play thewide receiver position.
And so you know, obviously I'ma Tampa guy.
I've watched Mike Evans for along time.
He's not Mike Evans, he's MikeEvans.
He's 20 pounds lighter thanMike Evans was coming out of
Texas A&M.
He's not nearly as physical,but he's also a better route
runner than Mike Evans wascoming out.
Mike Evans was, you know it washim and Johnny Manziel.
(38:00):
It was a lot of go that way,mike, and just be better than
everybody else.
And that worked really, reallywell for the Aggies for those
two seasons.
But you know, so he's.
He has everybody who's comparinghim to Evans.
It's not really, they're justbig and and athletic and that's
not.
It's not a one-to-onecomparison.
But again, there's some thingsthat Mike did really well that
he's not quite there on andthere's some things that he does
(38:21):
well, you know, better thanMike did coming out.
I think Drake London is isprobably a better comp.
Drake wasn't quite as tall butthere's there some similarities
there.
There's smoothness, he's prettysmooth.
After the catch I could see thevision to pairing him with Brian
Thomas Jr and giving opposingdefenses a really, really
(38:44):
problematic decision to make,because you can't roll coverages
either way, and so somebody'sgoing to be one-on-one,
somebody's going to have amismatch.
It's either over the top orit's the fact that a guy like
McMillan is open even when he'scovered.
I mean, if you trot out thosetwo guys, week one, trevor
Lawrence is not going to be sadabout that whatsoever and, like
Jay said earlier, they paid himalready.
So this ship is going to godown or not.
With how Trevor Lawrenceperforms, I've got no problem.
(39:07):
It's the same reason we had theconversation about ashton
gentry and tyler warren at five.
The biggest reason is becausehow do we help this quarterback
that we've already invested into be the franchise guy?
How do we make sure that we hiton that?
Speaker 3 (39:19):
give him one of those guys, and mcmillan I would
absolutely put in thatconversation yeah, yeah, no, I,
I, so I don't have them as likerated as high as you do.
You said said top 10.
I think I got them rated like17th, so I mean it's not like
that big of a spread.
But yeah, I put them like 17thon my big board, I think like
(39:39):
the more I watch at Buka thoughI wasn't like in on his game
until like I really watched itand I almost put him first in
this class, like I almost puthim over Golden class, like I
almost put him over golden,which phil would hate it.
Phil's a texas guy, but I did.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
I put him over golden , sorry, phil.
Yeah, it is what it is, fine,um, but yeah, it's okay to be
wrong, nobody's yeah, no, noyeah, but no, you kind of um.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
You made some good points right about like he's.
I never seen him as mike evanseither.
Like mike evans ran like afreaking four, four, four, three
, by the way, coming out ofcollege.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
By the way, if I think it was four, five flat,
but he was six, five, two thirtyfive, like right.
He's basically a small tightend and ran like almost in the
four, four, like that's.
That's stupid, that's insane.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Yeah, like we had never seen anything like it at
that time.
You know, like not that big, atleast.
Um, so, yeah, that's.
It was like, wow, like thisguy's.
Something else man shout out tomike evans but yeah, man, like
this, this class does excite meas a whole.
Yeah, they definitely got toget a guy in the first three
rounds.
I would think, um, I don't knowabout you and phil on it, but
(40:50):
they need a number two besideBrian Thomas Jr.
He is currently not on thisteam.
But yeah, man, I appreciateyour insight on that man.
Phil, you got any otherquestions?
Speaker 1 (41:01):
No, we have one more that you have, that we have
listed here.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
Oh, I missed it.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
You wrote the questions I wrote the questions.
James is like I have anotherquestion.
You wrote the questions out.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, you'reright, and this is one of my
guys.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Man, how did I miss this?
Uh, but yeah, no.
Another position they need toaddress, like in the top three
rounds, luke, is offensive line.
I think they need to come outof this draft with a start in
offensive line.
I mean, now I know they gotthree guys in free agency, but
you know, I don't think they gotbut one starter of those three
guys out of free agency for thestarting offensive line.
(41:36):
That's makari.
Of course, like the money, whichisn't like crazy money, but
it's enough for you to say likethis guy has to start for at
least the first two years of hiscontract.
Makari is the only guy that Ican really like pencil in in
free agency that they got.
That should start right, andthen the other guys were already
on the team.
What are your thoughts on thisoverall?
(41:57):
Like offensive line class,because I think the Jaguars are
going to be in a position wherethey probably won't be able to
address it until like roundthree.
Basically, do you think likethere is depth there past round
two for them to be able to get astarter Like my guy that I keep
penciling in and a lot of Jazzfans keep penciling in and Phil
likes him too.
Tate Ratlidge from UGA.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
I knew it was going to be Tate Ratlidge.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
That's my guy man.
I like Tate man, but is it anyothers like in that range with
him that you can see them maybeget in like round three or four,
Because I mean that's kind oflike the round specialty.
By the way, talking about JamesGladstone and where he came
from, that's their hit range.
Is that third, fourth, fifthround, sometimes like Kyron
(42:43):
Williams, right, puka and someothers that are escaping my mind
right now.
But yeah, like, can they findlike some starters past round
two?
Speaker 2 (42:53):
I think it's going to be tough.
I'm not going to lie.
I think both the tackle and theinterior offensive line classes
I really like the guys that areprobably going to go in those
first two rounds and then itgets real skinny, real fast.
I think especially there's somedevelopmental guys I like in
that range but you're startingto get out of the range Again.
Tate Rattledge, for me, is atop 50 player in this draft.
(43:14):
I feel like I said this theother day to somebody.
I think we've gotten tooobsessed with versatility when
it comes to offensive linemennowadays that we don't see a
high quality starter staring usin the face when he's only
played one position.
My man, tate Rattledge, went tothe right guard spot and said
this is where I live.
I'm going to stay here forthree years and just play really
good football and do thisreally, really well.
(43:36):
And that's what he did.
And then he went to the combineand lit it up.
He is huge, he is athletic andhe is experienced against top
competition at that spot.
So if you want to be able toplug in a guy at right guard,
he's the guy, I agree.
I just don't.
I don't think that guy makes itto the third round.
The experience, the athleticismagain playing in the SEC.
I don't know that goes like youknow.
(43:58):
Jonas Savanea from Arizona isthe same way.
Donovan Jackson, ohio StateAgain I think those are round
two guys.
Gray Zabel could be a firstround guy, same with Tyler
Booker.
So Same with Tyler Booker.
So that's all your interiorguys and you're starting to get
into that.
Maybe it's Marcus Bowe fromPurdue who's played some tackle,
but I think he's probably acenter at the next level.
Jared Wilson, the center fromGeorgia, is probably going to go
(44:20):
earlier than a lot of peoplethink.
Jackson Slater from SacramentoState is that Now we're starting
to get into that Rams specialty, like middle round, small
school developmental type guythat I think would be really
good.
Jalen Rivers out of Miami, dylanFairchild from Georgia, miles
Frazier from LSU those are guysthat into the third and fourth
round now maybe you're hopingthey can start.
They've played at a high levelin big conferences but their
(44:44):
film in terms of what they bringto the table has some
inconsistencies that you wonderabout them being able to start
right away, which again gettinginto the fourth round and
expecting to get starters.
It doesn't happen very often,and so if they're not able to
get one of those guys and thetackle class is kind of the same
way there's some guys that Icould see getting to the third
or fourth round that have youknow Anthony Belton from North
Carolina State, emery Jones Jrfrom LSU who have some
(45:07):
experience.
But I really do feel like thereis a significant drop off after
the first two and a half roundsor so that if the jags don't
address that, it's probablygoing to be a later round
developmental guy that that'snot going to make an immediate
impact well, phil, we got tostop mocking tate to the jags in
the third round, so I justdon't see it happening and look
honestly, look at the otherteams too, especially look at
(45:29):
the teams picking on the backend of round two Baltimore,
houston.
So many teams that if he's onthe board when they're picking
and they haven't, then theydidn't go.
You know, interior in the firstround, which they're unlikely
to do.
He just fits way too many teamsin that range that I just the
idea that he would make it tothe third is is I.
I had to give up on that awhile ago too, because he was in
my third round in my box for awhile and then after the comment
(45:51):
I was like, ah, that's notgoing to happen.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
I mean, you're right, Like when I watched the film
like he doesn't feel like thirdround material, which is that's
still when you're talking aboutthird round players, you're
still talking about really goodplayers still but he doesn't
feel like he should go in thethird round.
I want to ask one more question.
This he should go in the thirdround.
I want to ask one more question.
This is a guy that you hit thenail on the head with the
comparison.
(46:14):
It came to my mind the daybefore you tweeted this.
I saw it Memboo man.
You compared him to TristanWirfs and I was saying that same
thing, like three days ago.
I was like I finally and I'mnot a comparison guy I'm
terrible, I hate him, I hate procomparisons.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
I I'm terrible, I hate them.
I hate pro comparisons.
I only say them when they jumpout at me.
I can't stand them.
I like stupid ones, likesomebody comped Cam Scadaboo to
Gimli from Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Like I was about that , like that's fine, right, that
could be a whole article.
You should definitely do that.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
That's what I mean.
Like, I like the silly comps.
We were talking about WillieLampkin from North Carolina, the
short offensive lineman, and Isaid he was like three Kirby
Puckets in a trench coatsideways Like.
Those are the comps I'm herefor.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Nick Emanwuri is Kawhi Leonard Like those are the
types of comps I'm here for.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
But no, I agree with you, man.
When I saw Membu play and again, this is high praise coming
from me you know I'm a Bucs guy.
I've watched all of TristanWirth's.
He is a Hall of Famer right now.
He is the only tackle in thehistory of the National Football
League to be a first-teamAll-Pro as a right tackle and
then switch to left tackle andbe first-team All-Pro as a left
tackle.
(47:22):
He's the only person to haveever done that.
That's insane.
So for me, to comp anybody tothat guy is high praise and I
think honestly that's why you'reseeing them start to get mocked
to the Raiders.
Because who's the GM in LasVegas now?
It's John Spitek, who spent allof he drafted Tristan Wurst.
He's part of that front office.
He knows what that type of guycan mean.
(47:43):
Armand Membu is the number fourplayer on my board.
He is the first guy after thatelite tier of those three guys
that I mentioned earlier.
First guy after that elite tierof those three guys that I
mentioned earlier, it's ArmandMbembe with four for me.
So that tells you what I thinkof him.
Everybody's going to be like oh, he's the right tackle.
Who cares?
Absolutely.
Elite athlete who is dominant,whose film is amazing.
Who put every SEC rusher in thedirt.
(48:04):
Who finishes man.
I love that dude.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
He's one of my favorite players in this draft.
Me too, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
I've been talking to us for a few weeks now.
Man, I would be totally okaywith it.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
I would be, I'd be, I'd be over the moon about you
cannot go wrong taking eliteoffensive linemen with rare
athleticism and really good tapein the sec I think I gotta do
that.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
Seven on my big board and I almost put him higher too
.
He was one of those guys Istruggle with with like loveland
and em like not putting themhigher than they were.
But so the reason like I Istarted to like become like hip
to him is I was watching JavonFoster last year.
Cause print ballkeeper draftedJavon Foster and you're like
(48:46):
let's look like he might noteven make the team We'll see no
disrespect to him.
But that being said, like when Iwas watching Foster last year,
I kept getting stuck on a dudeacross from him.
I was like who is this massivekid just like moving people
around like nobody could doanything with them.
And here we come, we rollaround.
I was telling Phil like lastmonth I was like Phil, I know
(49:09):
where I remember Mimble from.
He was the dude that I kepttalking about last year when I
was telling Phil like last monthI was like Phil, I know where I
remember Mimbo from.
He was the dude that I kepttalking about last year when I
was watching Foster and I keptgetting sidetracked from
watching Foster.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
So yeah, like he.
He's asked Trent if he thoughthe was picking.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
Mimbo.
You know what Did he watch?
The film backward Was hisscreen mirrored or something.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Was his face in the wrong way?
He thought he was getting 79?
.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
Shame on me and Phil, because we've shared a press
conference room with TrentBaalke and we should have asked
the right questions.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Hey, missed opportunities.
We've all had them.
Speaker 3 (49:44):
Right, right, but yeah, that's it, man, unless,
like I said, phil, I think yousaid you're good, you don't have
anything else, right?
Speaker 1 (49:50):
No, I think you said you're good, you don't have
anything else, right?
No, I think we're good, luke.
I guess the last thing I wantto ask you very important
question, alluding to thediscussion we were having before
we got on Are you a 2017 PowerRangers truther, like I am, and
saying that that was a goodmovie and they should have
gotten another shot?
Phenomenal movie.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Absolutely loved that movie.
Great reinvention, great newtwist on it.
I mean Daiquiri Montgomery wasfantastic, we have Brian
Cranston, elizabeth Banks weregreat I'd love and obviously the
cameos at the end were great.
No, that was fun, man, I agreeDiehard, diehard fan and I am
absolutely a truther on thatmovie.
It was a win.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
Perfect.
I don't even remember anythingelse we talked about.
But, luke, thank you so muchfor coming on here today, please
.
As I mentioned to everybody,the your final four round mock
draft dropped here today, april21st, but you also have some
stuff coming up leading up toThursday.
If you could, please leteverybody know where they can
find that, and everything willalso be linked in the show notes
of this episode.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
Yeah, man.
So the top 300 big board is up.
I've got uh links to a lot ofthe player scouting reports that
you'll find in the athlonsports uh nfl draft magazine
that we put out every year soyou can click on those player
names that that light up and youcan see the scouting reports on
those guys as well.
Same for the four round mockdraft.
Um, I'll have a final firstround mock draft thursday
morning, the morning that thedraft kicks off, which will
(51:07):
actually be like the only.
The only time I ever try to getthe picks right is that last
mock draft.
Every other one is just tryingto present as many different
scenarios as possible so thatfans are kind of ready for
everything.
But that last one on Thursdaymorning will just be the first
round.
That'll be me actually saying,hey, this is what I actually
think is going to happen tonight.
And then all through the draft,I'll be live grading every
(51:27):
first round pick onAthlonsportscom.
I have a ton of analysis.
Right after that I'll have aday two mock draft immediately
after the first round Bestavailable players.
Same for the fourth round onday three, and then we'll get
into the undrafted free agentsand before you know it, man.
You'll be seeing Arch Manningat the top of my 2026 mock draft
way too soon.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
There we go, luke Easterling of Athlon Sports.
Thank you so much for the timeand we hope to speak to you soon
.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Absolutely, man.
This was a blast.
This is.
We waited too long.
Let's do it again.
Thanks, luke.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Appreciate it.
Still running.
And no, that's it.
No, no.
Touchdown Jacksonville 109yards.
Incredible, incredible Playaction.
Votals Upstairs Wide open.
(00:44):
Tommy Bohannon TouchdownJacksonville.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Looking for Jimmy in the end zone.
Touchdown Jaguars, touchdownJaguars, touchdown Jaguars.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast.
Here are your hosts, jamesJohnson and Phil Smith.
Hey everyone, phil Smith here.
Welcome back to another episodeof Touchdown Jaguars.
This week, for our finalepisode before the NFL Draft, we
had NFL Draft expert LukeEasterling on from Athlon Sports
to discuss where the Jaguarscould go in the upcoming 2025
(01:23):
NFL Draft.
Hope you enjoy the episode andmake sure you check out the show
notes for everything you needas far as Touchdown Jaguars
could go in the upcoming 2025NFL draft.
Hope you enjoy the episode andmake sure you check out the show
notes for everything you needas far as Touchdown Jaguars, as
well as all of Luke's work.
But without further ado, let'sget to our conversation with
Luke Easterling.
(01:45):
All right, touchdown Jaguarsaudience.
We have our Jay.
We've been talking about it formonths now.
We're going to get a guest.
We're going to get a guest.
Oh, finally, the week of thedraft.
That time has come and we'rethrilled to welcome in Luke
Easterling, nfl draft analystfor Athlon Sports, but also does
a whole bunch of other writingfor Athlon as well.
So make sure you check out theshow notes of this episode so
(02:05):
you can find all of his work aswell as his final four round
mock draft that dropped heretoday as we're recording, on the
afternoon of April 21st.
Luke, so happy to have you here.
We'll jump right into it.
Before we talk about the draftitself, we want to know what
your thoughts are on thedirection the Jags have gone in
the front office.
We've heard your thoughts inthe spaces on Liam Cohen, but
(02:26):
what about the young GM theyhired in, james Gladstone?
What are your thoughts on himas well?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, well, I mean anybody that's coming from an
organization that's done a goodbit of winning and done a good
bit of innovation in certainways, like they've done with the
Rams.
I think that was probably veryappealing to Shad Khan and
everybody making decisions therein Jacksonville and I think it
shows that you know this hashappened in the coaching ranks
too, where, like all the headcoaches and OCs and DCs are
(02:52):
starting to get younger andyounger and younger and, like
teams are being more bold intheir decision-making process
and bringing in some of thesepeople that you know are younger
and more inexperienced but theyclearly have their finger on
the pulse of the innovative sideof the way the game is being
played on both sides of the ball, and I think that's being
reflected in hires like JamesGladstone on the front office
(03:13):
side, where you've got thesepeople that have, you know,
don't have a ton of years ofexperience under their belt but
they have a keen understandingof the direction that the league
is going in all those differentways, and I think that's just
reflected in that hire.
So I think you know you'reseeing some similarities where
you know they're gettingcreative with not doing the top
30 visits like they did with theRams, and trying to find
(03:33):
creative ways to meet with theprospects instead and do it
different ways.
Everything I've heard from himsounds if I was a Jagu I'd be
I'd be excited about thedirection that things are going.
I think that again, it's justthere's a lot of trends
happening across the league, youknow, one of which my favorite
one is the fact that they'refinally letting all of these
(03:55):
incredible college quarterbacksstay as damn quarterbacks and
and not moving them to positionsthat that they haven't played,
and so there's so many ways inwhich NFL I feel like it's
finally getting out of their ownway and being like, oh, maybe
we should do this and stop justdoing things the way we always
have.
And I think that again isreflected in them being willing
to give younger guys like JamesGladstone a chance, and again,
(04:15):
he's going to have to go makehis hay with it, he's going to
have to make good decisions andthey're going to have players,
but I think the idea of givingsome of these innovative minds a
chance to see if they can hang,I like it.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, Jay, we're seeing more and more of these
younger guys like Luke talkedabout.
You know, just kind of layingin wait and learning and seeing
what works and, more importantly, what does not work.
And it's been very apparentwhat has not worked here over
the last few years, right, Jay?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
So you know, the youth movement is something
we've been calling for for quitesome time, for sure yeah, you
know we've had this discussionmany, many times and we might
even say that in the space withluke.
But I mean, like for thejaguars, it's not like doing
things the old school way andhaving these older gms has
worked for them, like their lasttwo, like higher ups, were
(05:04):
tomoughlin and Trent Baalke Likeout of that work for him.
You know, both of those bearshort term success and then,
right after they had success,everything went off the cliff.
So it's like why not trysomething new, you know, and
fresh and shy kind of kind of healluded to that when you know
they started this search.
It's like why not try somethingfresh and innovative?
(05:24):
Right, like we've been there,done that.
Let's go with the young kid,youngest GM in the league.
So, yeah, man, I mean, I likethat the NFL is like kind of
learning from its mistakes,because it didn't always be that
way, like they kept and it'sstill that way in some ways,
especially with quarterbacks.
Right, they can never figureout quarterbacks in this league,
(05:46):
but for the most part, though,like they are starting, we
starting to see like that youthmovement, them being more
willing to go the youthful routeand what have you.
But yeah, luke, my question is,man, you know there's a lot of
chatter and in terms of what thejazz are going to do and I even
saw Todd McShay say today likethe draft doesn't start until
(06:06):
pick five because everythingelse is pretty much known, like
those first four picks.
We know what's going to happenfor the most part Travis, hunter
, abdul Carter, right and so onand so forth.
So, that being said, you knowwhen you get to five, that's
when the draft is really goingto start and you know the Jazz
could trade out, could staythere.
You know, time will tell on it.
(06:27):
But my thoughts, well, I wantto ask about your thoughts on
Mason Graham, because there is alot of talk surrounding him
going top five, but a lot ofpeople also have their
reservations, like we've seenPete Prisco recently come out
and say, like you know, afterwatching some more film I don't
know, like at one point in timehe wanted Mason Graham and it's
(06:49):
like he's kind of not thereanymore and you see a lot of
that, just a lot of wavering, Iguess, faith in Mason Graham.
What are your thoughts on him asa prospect?
Is he the route to go with picknumber five?
And yeah, man, like what doesthe film say to you in terms of
what you've seen out of MasonGraham?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah.
So a couple of things on that.
I think you touched on the ideaof trading out real quick and I
think the thing for the Jags isthey need to.
They need star players.
They don't need more.
They've got 10 picks already.
They've got two thirds, twofourths, two sixths Like they've
got the ammo.
They've got two thirds, twofourths, two sixths.
They've got the ammo.
They're picking in the top five.
They need a top five player.
Go ahead and just take theplayer.
They're not one of those teams.
(07:33):
Like Minnesota or Washington,there's teams that are missing
those day two picks that theyneed to move around and recoup
those.
The Jags are not that team.
I think the Jags need as muchhigh-end talent as possible and
to me that means sticking andpicking at five.
That said at five, the thingI've said over the last couple
weeks about Mason Graham I thinkhe's a really good football
player.
I think he's top ten on myboard.
He's the best of a really deepclass of interior defensive
(07:55):
linemen in this class.
But to that end, I think theclass is so deep that if the
Jags are picking what is it?
37, 36, something like that atthe top of the second round, the
difference between Mason Grahamand the defensive lineman that
you can probably get there,whether it's Darius Alexander
from Toledo, tyleek Williamsfrom Ohio State, if you need
(08:16):
more of a nose, even guys likeTJ Sanders from South Carolina,
who I really like, the gapbetween Mason Graham and those
guys is just not that big to me.
I really don't think that ifyou're telling me I have to
spend the number five overallpick to get Mason Graham or I
can get any of those guys I justmentioned in the second round,
it makes me feel less inclinedto spend that elite pick on a
(08:37):
guy like Mason Graham and again,I think he's one of the top 10
players in this draft.
I just think that that tier ofprospects across all positions,
there's three elite guys in thisclass.
To me, it's Travis Hunter, it'sAbdul Carter and it's Ashton
Genting.
That's it.
That's that first tier ofprospect From four to like 35,
there's not a ton of movementthere.
(08:57):
There's really not a giantdifference between those guys,
and so I think for a team likeJacksonville I think that's why
you're here in the conversationabout ashton gentry at five
right now coming out of some ofthese, these insiders with a few
days left to go is that, if, ifthat intel is correct, if it's
coming from a genuine placewithin that building, I think,
(09:17):
if I, if I'm james gladstone, ifI'm liam cone, if I'm anybody
in that process, I'm lookingaround and i'm'm seeing who are
the difference makers in thisclass.
There's so few of them.
And if Ashton Gentry's on theboard when we pick, he's one of
those three guys that Imentioned.
He's one of those threesuperstar players Talk about the
value of the running backposition all day long, but he's
a special player and so I thinkhe is where that conversation
(09:40):
probably starts.
Tyler Warren is the other guythat I would put in that
conversation as guys that again,you cleared the path.
You got rid of Evan Ingram, soyou have an opening there.
I know Brenton Strange, recentsecond round pick, so I know
they liked him a good bit.
But Tyler Warren is one of thoseguys that I've had him mock to
the Jags for about a month now,just because I think that is a
pick where I could see LiamCohen getting involved in the
(10:01):
process and saying, man, justget me that guy, get me that guy
to help out Trevor Lawrence totransform the offense.
He can do everything.
He can play in line.
He can line up everywhere so hedoesn't give up anything in
terms of formations, bigphysical guy.
There's so many different waysthey could go.
Mason Graham has always feltlike the safe pick for them and
I just I hate the idea of safepicks because, a there's no such
(10:22):
thing and B I think on filmhe's a very, very good football
player.
I just don't see a massivedifference between him and the
next five or six defensivelinemen in this class and I
think there is a big differencebetween Ashton Genting and the
rest of the running back class,guys like Tyler Warren.
Maybe even Colston Loveland isclose to him for me, but that
next tier of tight ends is wayaway.
(10:43):
And again, I think if they'regoing to stick and pick at five,
which I think they should do,barring a really stupid trade
that could give them additionalresources, maybe in next year's
draft.
That's why I wouldn't beshocked to even see a guy like
Jenty, because he's, at the endof the day, he's one of the
three truly elite players inthis draft and I can't go wrong.
If I'm those guys building, ifI'm truly going to go best
(11:05):
player available, he's going tobe that guy man, phil.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
In a lot of ways luke sounds like me, right?
These are conversations me andyou have had right.
I went with tyreek williams inthe second round of my only mock
right because I didn't and Ieven said it in the last podcast
it was hard to leave masongraham there.
I traded back, actually, in mymock.
(11:29):
It was hard to leave masongraham there, but at the end of
the day I didn't see a bigdifference between ty league and
mason graham, and that'sexactly that.
He summed up my mindset of whatI was thinking, Phil, when I
made that mock draft.
So, that being said, man, youhit the nose on the head with
that in terms of how I felt.
And then the other thing youmentioned right was just the
(11:52):
fact that the Jaguars just needto take the best player there
right.
Trading back, even though I'vedone it and Phil has done it,
doesn't necessarily help them.
And the reason for that isbecause I've said this too is
when you look at the Jaguars,they're kind of in a weird space
where they're picking in thetop five but all of the premium
(12:13):
positions on their team aretaken care of.
It's kind of odd to see, right,you know, that's well, that's
the Trent Baalke effect right.
Leave it the Trent Baalkeeffect right.
Leave it for Trent Baalke toget a bunch of premium picks and
do nothing with it.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
How did we get here Right?
Gee, I wonder.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Right, there you go.
So, no, like they have thequarterback, right, they have.
Well, we hope they have thequarterback.
They paid him last year.
They have Brian Thomas Jr.
They have a premium, you know,draft pick there in him, pick
there in him.
And then they have thedefensive end positions as well.
(12:48):
So all of the premium positionson this team is set, you know,
essentially, but it's justeverything between those
positions that is not set right.
So, yeah, you're right, likewhen you say that they might
just need to stay there and pickthe player.
That's what the outlook oftheir roster looks like.
It's like, hey, we need to juststay here, add another player
with these premium guys.
We got to add another premiumtalent with it, whether it's
(13:10):
Jenty or whoever the case may be.
But yeah, I mean a lot ofthings you said there, luke,
like I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
A couple of specific things about Jenty and Tyleek
Williams real quick.
This whole you know idea that,oh, you can get running backs
later.
You can get running backs later.
Yeah, yeah, you can get runningbacks later.
You can get decent runningbacks later.
The Jaguars have decent runningbacks.
Tank Bigsby is all right.
Travis Etienne's all right.
I think they work well together.
Are either of those two guysscaring anybody on a regular
(13:42):
basis?
Are they superstar players?
No, and that's okay.
Again, you can get productiverunning back, especially in this
class loaded running back class.
I think there's going to bereally productive runners on the
board in the fourth round.
Do you want a special one?
Because if you want a specialone, you've got to take them
early.
You've got to take them at two,like Saquon Barkley.
You've got to take them ateight, like Bijan Robinson, At
12, like J.
That's where you have to draftthose guys If you want somebody
special, and we've seen how thespecial ones make a difference.
(14:06):
Derrick Henry, who was a secondround pick he was a little bit
of a unicorn in terms of hismeasurements so people didn't
really know what he could be,but that's why those guys got
paid.
Christian McCaffrey was a top10 pick.
Like those guys.
If you want the special ones,you gotta pay for them.
So if you're okay with, okay,you can wait until the third or
fourth round and that's fine.
If you want the guy that's goingto hurdle over people backwards
(14:27):
or turn three would-be tacklersinto a 60-yard touchdown 20
times a year, like Ashton Gentryjust did at Boise State, that's
worth the top five top ten pick.
It really is.
And Tyleek Williams is the guywho, whoever takes him in the
draft, their fans are going tobe like okay, it's kind of
boring, it's whatever.
Five years from now, every fanof that team is going to be like
(14:48):
hell, yeah, Ty Leak.
I'm so glad we took that guybecause he's going to make sure
that the other team can't runthe ball on you.
He's going to be the reasonevery offense is in third and
seven plus all the time, becausethey can't run the ball,
because that dude is eating updouble teams, that dude's
blowing up plays in thebackfield.
He's he's boring, he's not sexy, but he is the type of player
that a couple years down theroad you can be like man.
(15:08):
I'm so glad that guy's on myteam I agree.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
I agree.
I mean, that's the guy you wanteating double teams for mason
smith, right, they?
They have something there inmason smith, I believe at least
he just got a lot, yeah.
So like pairing him with withwith Mason sounds like a great
idea to me, and you're rightabout the whole thing.
Sometimes you have to askyourself and I struggle with
this personally to takingrunning backs in the first round
(15:33):
.
But I'm also, secondarily, aFalcons fan and I've watched
what B John Robinson has donefor them.
He's a walking first down,right, yeah, so there's that.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Every time those guys touch the ball, everybody else
who is opposed to them is like,ah, damn it, do it, don't, do it
, don't.
Uh, you're scared, you'refreaked out every time that guy
touches the ball.
Like those guys aren't in thefourth round, you're not going
to get those guys in the fourthround.
You're going to get guys likebrian robinson jr in washington
great, solid running back, gonnaget you my, uh, my buddy, doug
farrar, who works with me atathlon sports, told me today we
were doing our podcast and hewas like brian robinson is the
(16:07):
guy who, if you need four yards,he'll get you five.
If you need seven yards, he'llget you five.
Like that, those types ofrunning backs, they do grow on
trees, like they're everywhere.
Like you can get those guys,man, if you want the guy that.
Every time he touches the ball,everybody else is like, uh, I
don't know what he's going tolike, I'm scared about what's
about to happen.
Those guys don't come cheap.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
You're right, and I look at it from this perspective
, with like when Bijan touchesthe ball, even people that are
in position are out of position.
Like it's literally like it'sfunny.
To me when I watch him on filmit's like, yeah, that dude was
in position to make the play.
He still didn't make the play.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
It's so many times you can see that on film with
bijan, so for you to say guys,just like chasing him down, feel
like I had you.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I was there.
I was there, I knew where youwere going.
Yeah, a lot of good it did.
You guys see me?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I knew you were gonna be there.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
I knew you were gonna be there.
And then the last thing I'lladd is the last time the jaguars
took that kind of a gamble, ifyou want to call it that, it
paid dividends.
That was Leonard Fournette,right, and we you know to this
day.
You know, say what you wantabout Tom Coughlin and that
regime, but when they tookLeonard Fournette to help Blake
Bortles, they almost went to theSuper Bowl.
(17:16):
So that's a.
You make a good point there.
Like for me to sit here and saythat I'm scared to take a
running back that high is alittle crazy when looking at the
facts we just laid out.
Like you know, you might makeme a gentee guy by the end of
this, this podcast.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
I mean, and hey, and I think no offense to to Lenny,
you know I'm a Bucs guy and I'llbe, uh, I'll be indebted to uh
to Lenny, uh, till the day I diefor that Super Bowl run man.
But Ashton Gentee is a is abetter prospect all around as a
running back than LeonardFournette was coming out.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Wholeheartedly, 100%.
Yeah, easily, easily to me.
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, you touched on some things too that a lot of us
I think some people are alsohaving those discussions and
also us in the group chat, jay,when we're talking about Mason
Graham, because it does seemlike and listen, the Jaguars are
already not a topic ofdiscussion for national media
just because we're the Jaguars.
So it seems like Mason Grahamis just the plug in the plug in
(18:16):
guy for that number five pick.
So we can move on and you knowwe understand why they're in
that position not a whole lot toreally talk about, but we have
been seeing those lines move andwhen Vegas talks people listen.
So we've been hearing thechatter about Jenty.
So I'm glad we're getting a lotof this discussion now.
So you actually got a littlebit ahead of some of the
questions we had for Jenty, sothat worked out perfectly.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I was going to say, the more names I threw out there
, I was like, yeah, I think I'mprobably getting ahead of that.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
But isn't that rich though?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Isn't afterthought and like now that all the first
four picks feel like chalk, nowthey're becoming interesting to
the jacks like oh you're lovingme now, aren't you?
Yeah, I'm interesting to younow, huh yeah, what is it?
Speaker 1 (18:49):
schefter today said well, don't pay attention to
jacksonville, like I mean, wejust we've been here the whole
time.
Yeah, well, just hanging out.
But I want to stick withrunning back because even though
you still have mason grahamslotted to jacksonville at five,
you do have another guy that weare big fans of here in our
group and over here in thepodcast at pick 126 and RJ
Harvey.
(19:09):
So I was wondering if you couldtalk about him.
If we don't go the fast andgentry route which Jay and I are
both coming around to at picknumber five, but say they just
go with running back a littlebit later, can you talk a little
about RJ Harvey?
You know a guy that's just downthe road from us a guy, that's
just down the road from us.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
You know that I like a prospect if I'm willing to
talk up a ucf guy because I'm anusf grad so I hate ucf, uh,
with a passion.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
And so rj harvey, you know he's gotta have the goods.
If I'm if I'm gonna pump him up, but no, I I think I saw
somebody I can't remember who itwas that was like he could be
this year's bucky irving in.
That they're not necessarily thesame prospect where it's just
like that fourth round runningback that slips through the
cracks, that once you go back tothe film after he's taken
(19:51):
you're like, oh okay, there'ssomething there.
Because again it feels like UCFis kind of one of those
programs like the Jaguars, whereit's like nobody really thinks
about it a whole lot until it'stime to have you know, a Brandon
Marshall or a Dante Culpepperor you, you know somebody coming
out of that program.
They've had some good ones, butno, rj Harvey, I think, is just
a really well-rounded back whois tough between the tackles.
(20:11):
He can.
He can give you enoughexplosiveness.
He's probably not going to runaway from everybody at the next
level but he's got some wiggleand and again catches the ball
nicely out of the backfield.
Just does everything at a highenough level to where he is that
type of running back whereAshton Gentry is the cream of
the crop, you got to take him inthe top five to get him.
But if you want a thousand yardrusher who can be on the field
(20:31):
all three downs and fill anytype of role, rj Harvey checks
those boxes Like he can do allof those things at a high enough
level to be starting qualityand I think again the fact that
every time I do these three andfour round mock drafts, every
time I get to the end of a round, I'm like how in the world did
I not get these two or threeguys in there?
And it's always at particularpositions, and running back
continues to be one of them.
I routinely get into the fourthround and guys like Harvey,
(20:53):
guys like Dylan Sampson andOllie Gordon the second there's
so many running backs where I'mlike man, I've got, I like the
fit there.
Again, it's not that theJaguars need another body in
that room, necessarily, but withas many picks as they have, if
they stay at all of those spotswhich I don't necessarily expect
them to do it just becomesabout getting the best value at
(21:16):
whatever position you can, andthis running back class is just
so deep that I think that'sgoing to give a lot of teams, a
lot of guys on on third andfourth round where they're just
like man.
There's just far and away thebest player on the board is a
running back and Harvey's one ofthose guys yeah, I was actually
going to ask you about that,because I did.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
I think I heard field yates say today that he
actually believes the runningback class is a little bit
overrated, so do you disagreewith that?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
yeah, nah, I mean it just.
I guess that's in the eye ofthe beholder.
I guess it just depends on whatyou, what your expectations are
then to compare it to, to sayit's overrated, like I.
Just you know it's.
I'm not sure what the criteriaare, but I mean I can jump
through my rankings right here,let's.
Let's look at how I have themstacked here.
I've got 14 running backs witha fourth round grade or higher,
(22:01):
you know.
And even there's guys in thefifth round burchard smith from
smu, tosh brooks from uh, fromtexas tech.
I like a lot.
Um, there's so many guys that Ifeel like can be productive
runners at the next level.
And there's all different typestoo.
You got basialotin who's justlike absolute straight line,
like run through everybody andrun away from everybody else.
I think Devin Neal from Kansasis probably the most underrated
(22:22):
running back in this class.
I loved watching his tape.
Jaden Blue is going to be anasty weapon in the passing game
man Elite speed and just really, really natural as a receiver
out of the backfield can run afull route tree as a running
back it's my guy creates so manymatchup problems.
I know camp Scadaboo is a funguy for a lot of people.
He's going to be that thunderto the lightning, you know, in
some committee backfield and Ithink he's going to do really
(22:48):
well in that role.
Damian Martinez similar type ofguy, but no, I don't think that
group is like that in his owntier as the second best guy.
And then both the Ohio Stateguys Henderson and Judkins I
like a lot.
Caleb Johnson from Iowa Imentioned Dylan Sampson, but DJ
Giddens from Kansas State I meanthere's so many guys in that
group that all of them should begone in the top four rounds and
it's probably not going tohappen.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Yeah, that class is crazy loaded.
I have to go back and look andsee I think I just have two in
my top, like 32.
Yeah, between Amarion and Jenty.
But I'll have to go back andlook.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
But after that, you're right.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
Yeah, that's where you see that like cluster of
running backs.
So, yeah, it makes sense, Ithink my question now.
So we were going to ask about,uh, warren, which you already
touched on a little bit.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
So what I'll ask Tyler Warren fan George Kittle
in Rob Gronkowski's body.
I'm not sure who doesn't wantthat yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I was telling Phil that in our last podcast.
I love that kid's film man.
It was times he was takingsnaps out of the backfield.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, wildcat quarterback 6'5", 260.
Let's go.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Just doing it all.
Man and I love like Loveland islike one of my favorite
prospects in the whole draft,like literally one of my
favorite prospects in the wholedraft, like literally.
Like I almost I looked at mycomputer doc for like two
minutes Like I kind of want toput him above Warren.
But when you look at whatWarren does, like just in
totality, just how many thingshe can do, I was like, nah, I
(24:27):
can't do that.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
That's the thing.
That's the thing, thedifference between them.
They're 1A and 1B.
For me I like Warren more, justbecause I think he's more
complete.
And again, I think,particularly in today's NFL,
having a guy that can doeverything in the passing game
that he does and also be soeffective as a blocker and be
big enough to line him up inline, and you're not giving your
formations away.
A lot of these guys like KylePitts or somebody like if he's
(24:50):
on the field, if he's in line,you're probably play action,
you're probably throwing theball anyway, because that's not
what you're asking him to do.
Most of the time You're givingthings away with how you align
and the personnel you use.
Tyler Warren's out there.
He can be wherever he wants andyou still don't know what the
hell is going to happen.
Colston Loveland is much morein the brand of receiving
specialist, big, oversized slotreceiver.
Basically, it's not that he'snot willing in the running game,
(25:11):
it's just, you know he's ataller, you know, leaner guy, a
little more high cut.
He's not going to give you asmuch effectiveness in the
blocking game but man as a purepass catcher down the field.
Every DB is going to be toosmall and every linebacker is
not going to be athletic enoughto hang with them.
Both of those guys are top 11on my board, so I'm with you,
and there will be teams thathave Loveland higher because of
(25:32):
what they need from the position.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Okay, so I'm not losing my marbles for almost
doing it.
Okay, okay.
That being said, Luke, couldyou talk about we'll switch it
up a little bit, because youtalked about Orrin Could you
talk about the tight end classin general, because you know
this is kudos to Phil on this,like Phil dug this one up.
But Harold Fanning is a guythat, like I, looked at his film
(25:57):
.
I mean, I've read that hedidn't have a great combine, but
I looked at his film I was like, yeah, this kid has some
potential.
Um, and there's a lot of otheryou know uh people in that down
the road, um, uh, helm, gunnerhelm, so on and so forth.
Could you talk about this classin general, because the jaguars
do need to like come out ofthis class with one tight end at
(26:18):
the very least right, okay, so.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
So if they don't take a tight end in the first round,
both of those top guys aregoing to be gone, I think.
I think 14 is the floor forboth of those guys.
They'll both be off the boardby by the end of the colts pick
at 14, you know, accounting forsome movement.
The next tier has two more guysin it Mason Taylor from LSU and
Elijah Arroyo from Miami.
I think both of those guys areprobably going to be top 50
(26:42):
picks, definitely gone by theend of the second round.
I think Taylor could even slideinto the back of the first
round, depending on the teamsthat end up in those slots.
Again, just fairly well-roundedguys.
Arroyo's got a little bit of aninjury history.
It gives him a little bit ofconcern there, but just really
well-rounded guys that catch theball well and will block enough
.
And you mentioned Harold FanninJr.
He's been one of my favoriteguys early on.
I got a chance to speak withhim during the season and
(27:05):
interview him and he's got areally unique story.
He was basically like atwo-star linebacker recruit that
nobody really cared to beinterested in.
I think he had.
You know, he had to work reallyhard to get his grades up, you
know to to qualify, and had tohave some people vouch for him
to get him in the program thereat Bowling Green and he he
rewarded them by staying theretoo.
(27:25):
A lot of people expected him tokind of enter the portal after
you know the 2023 season, causehe had a pretty decent year and
he was.
He was loyal to that programthat stood by him and ended up.
I mean, he led all of collegefootball in receiving last
season in the regular season Allof them receivers, everybody.
He put up ridiculous numbersand for anybody that wants to
come for him about level ofcompetition because he played in
(27:45):
the MAAC, go look at what hedid against Penn State and Texas
A&M, the two best teams heplayed.
He was one of the best playerson the field and he lit them up.
He put 100 on both teams, Ithink, and just was.
Again.
Go look at the big plays, theexplosive plays.
He made them against the bestcompetition he faced.
He's kind of an athleticoutlier.
(28:07):
The testing wasn't great.
But for anybody who's like, oh,he's kind of small, exact same
size as Brock Bowers, so I don'twant to hear it.
He's almost exactly the samesize as Bowers was at the
combine.
So I don't have a problem withhim.
I think he's a lot of fun.
Terrence Ferguson is a guy fromOregon that I think a lot of
teams are going to like Somesimilarities to Mike Gusecki in
(28:29):
Cincinnati in terms of his.
Again, he's just a pure passrushing.
You know, pass catching,specialist, matchup weapon in
the red zone.
You know matchup weapon in thered zone, you know, and
possession guy.
But he's really athletic.
I saw Daniel Jeremiah the otherday comp him to Loveland in a
lot of ways, where he'sbasically Colston Loveland light
.
I think he likes him a littlebit more than I do, but he's a
lot of fun.
You mentioned Gunnar Helm, whoI think is solid, but yeah, you
know, there's going to be acouple of guys in the first
round, a couple of guys in thesecond, a couple of guys in the
(28:51):
third and that are going to bereally productive pros at the
next level.
I think the the depth of thetight end class is pretty solid
yeah, I like that class as awhole man.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
And um, yeah, you, you hit the nail on the head
with um, with what you saidabout fanning cooking to uh
texas a&m.
That was the like the clip thatphil showed me, and I don me.
I won't call the DB's number orname out, but he cooked one DB
in one play twice, shook himtwice.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
You got to go home, then you got to go home and try
to go wrap on the day you getcooked twice.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
You just keep walking to the sideline.
That's what you do, hey, coachman.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
It's not my day.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Throwing the freshman Phil, just a coach man yeah,
it's not going to throw in thefreshman.
But yeah, Phil, you got thenext question.
Go ahead, man.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Really quick to kind of ask what the pairing could be
say if.
If Bretton Strange is going tobe the primary guy, do you have
any insight on what you think hecould be in terms of in Cohen's
scheme?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, I mean Cohen.
Cohen is a guy who likes tomove his tight ends around.
He had a really interestingtight end room in Tampa Bay last
year where they had Kate Ottenwho was kind of the move guy
that could do some certainthings.
Didn't have a ton of you know,a huge ceiling as an athlete,
but just a really reliable guy.
With his hands he can catch theball, he can move around and
line up wherever you need him toMade some really clutch catches
(30:14):
for them.
But they have a little bit ofeverything.
They got Payne Durham, who'slike a big physical target guy.
They drafted Devin Culp out ofWashington last year, who's like
the undersized pure speed guy,and they got Coe Keeft, which is
basically like a fullback thatthey line up all over the place
too.
So he had a bunch of differenttypes of guys and types of roles
.
So strange with his athleticprofile.
(30:35):
Coming out of Penn State, I feellike he's got enough size and
athleticism to do any of thoseroles at a high level and I
think that's what Liam's goingto have to figure out throughout
the offseason program.
It's like what can I put onthis kid's plate and see what he
can do at a high enough levelto let me know what we are going
to need to add to that, to thatroom.
(30:56):
And and I think that's going tobe the challenge for him is
figuring out how much.
How much is he going to be ableto do?
What are we going to be thenmissing?
And hopefully they've, you know, looked at some tape to try to
figure that out, going into thisdraft, to kind of know what
type of tight end they need.
Like Brenton Strange, as anathlete, I think he had some
moments last year, some flasheswhere you see OK, this is why
they probably felt comfortable.
(31:16):
Moving on from Evan Ingram, Seeif he can take that next step.
He's basically like the ParkerWashington of the tight end room
where he saw some of thoseflashes last year, and you're
like let's give this kid alittle more, let's put some more
on his plate Both Penn Stateguys, by the way.
But yeah, I'm interested to seehow, how liam cohen kind of
(31:38):
pushes the envelope with whathe's capable of in all those
different areas.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
The parker washington of the tight end room is spot
on.
That's like the perfect, theperfect way to explain brent.
Strange because, yeah, the youknow, the fan base certainly
wasn't really on board with himat first and then, you know, as
the season went on, things kindof started to change a little
bit.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
So obviously with him having a bigger role, uh, you
know, very interested to see, Ithink I think he's kind of a
prisoner of going a littleearlier than people thought to.
You know when, when you have aguy like that who is a second
round pick that a lot of peopledidn't expect to be a second
round pick, it's almost like weget in this and again I'm I'm
part of the problem, like I'mone of those media people that
has like a top 300 board thatgoes like just top to bottom
without any like indication oflike team fits and scheme fits
(32:22):
and everything like that.
So I'm even guilty of looking ata board and being like, oh, he
was number 76 on this board andhe went 48.
That's a, that's a reachsometimes, but sometimes not.
So I think, for I think forjags fans in particular, like
they were probably a little souron it because they didn't
expect him to be a second roundpick and so they're just like he
(32:43):
better be worth it.
It takes time, man.
It takes time for guys,especially like athletic types
that weren't as polished.
I'm excited to see, uh, what hedoes in this upcoming season,
but I think that's probably partof why the jaguars fans are
like have a little bit higherexpectations for him.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yeah, and also take you back to that draft, Jay.
Remember we're mocking everyother tight end in the draft to
the Jaguars and everyone waslike who the hell is Brenton?
Strange?
So that was also that alsoplayed into it as well.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
So one guy haven't.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Googled.
Yet who is that I?
Who is that I didn't type himinto Twitter?
Hold on now.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Phil, I did tell everybody that that was the guy
that Todd McShay had mentionedin one of the conferences.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
So I was like wait, wait, hold up, hold up.
I have heard of this guy.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
He's like I tried, I tried.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, to kind of keep it in therealm of pass catchers, it
seems like your mindset is alsowhere ours is in terms of taking
a wide receiver early.
You have Luther Burton III atpick number 36 in round two, and
the pick right before that isJay's guy, emeko Igbuka, who's
going to Tennessee.
So I want to see if you cantalk about those two prospects.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
That's doubly bad.
That's doubly bad.
I gave him to the Titans rightahead of you guys, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah, and to the Titans right ahead of you guys,
sorry, yeah, there's been thatchatter from Mio O'Brien right,
jay that if Ibuka is availableat 36, they're going to sprint
to the podium and take him fromwhat she is hearing.
So talk about those two guysand what you see in them, and
also just kind of the widereceiver class in general.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yeah, I mean I gave him Luther Burton III because
it's just like it's crazy thathe would be on the board there
and I think that would usuallythey end up with a corner in
that spot because I like thecorner depth there.
But if, if any of those, ifburden or abuka again emeka
abuka is somehow underrated inthis class and I don't
understand why this is aprobably would have been a first
round pick last year, but justlike every other, you know
(34:31):
underclassmen on that team lastyear they were too pissed off by
how the season ended.
They all came back to win achampionship and they went and
did it.
But Ibuka was already like apolished pro-ready receiver last
year, like coming out of the2023 season.
He was ready to make animmediate impact.
So now he's got another year ofexperience, another year of
polish Just the most polishedpure route runner in the entire
receiver class Absolutely got afirst round grade from me, ahead
(34:53):
of guys like Matthew Golden,ahead of Luther Burden III.
Nabuca ended up in again one ofthe 24 first round grades I gave
out this year.
So I just at worst, he could beone of the best number two
receivers in the league as arookie and I think he's going to
be one of those guys that isjust going to play a long time
and play really, really damngood football for his entire
(35:15):
career.
And when we look back werealize, wow, there were some
flashier guys that you knowcreated some more explosive
plays, I guess.
But nobody from this class wasas consistently productive, and
productive right away.
Because, again, he's sopolished as a route runner and
has a great understanding of thegame.
I think he's going to make animmediate impact.
Just great hands, does all thelittle things well and most of
(35:37):
the big things as well, as youneed him to do, and just because
he doesn't run a 4-3.
But again, you look at a teamlike Jacksonville, that's
exactly the guy they need.
They have the splashy guy.
They've already got that guy.
Give me Emeka Ibuka all daylong.
I guess I wouldn't be shockedif he makes it to the second
(35:58):
round, just because there's only32 picks and and those guys who
aren't quite as flashy tend tofall sometimes.
But, man, it's just hard for meto believe that that that guy
with the experience he has, thepolish, he has, the well-rounded
skill set he has, if he doesn'tgo in the first round man.
What the what the hell are wedoing?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
So early on in this process, you know Jaguar fans
were pretty much, I'll say,penciling in, not maybe putting
it in pen, but Tedaro McMillanwas the guy to pair with BTJ.
What's your read on him?
Because again, we're alsoseeing, we're seeing a lot of
people talk about that him beingnow back in play for pick
number five.
(36:27):
Where does he fit in your talkabout like not, you know, going
safe is not how you want to go.
What's your thought on ifMcMillan were the pick number
five?
Where does he fit in your youtalked about like not, uh, you
know, going safe is not how youwant to go.
What's your thought on ifMcMillan were the pick in five?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I mean I wouldn't hate it.
Uh, again, it's.
It's he's number nine on myboard overall, so I haven't
bought into the whole.
There were, like it feels likethe last month, like before this
week, the last month was justlike this teardown McMillan
campaign where everybody's like,oh, he's gonna go 23rd to the
Packers and I'm like whathappened?
Like what did he lose a foot?
(36:57):
Like what are we talking about?
Like are we talking about thesame guy?
And so like the thing that I'veheard again from some of the
national guys is like somescouts have told them I'm not a
sources guy, I don't have scouts.
Scouts will talk to me.
That's not my game, I'm not,I'm not, I'm not that guy, but I
don't have scouts.
Scouts will talk to me.
That's not my game, I'm not,I'm not, I'm not that guy.
But I'll repeat what they toldthem, which is evidently that he
he's always on cruise control,right, he doesn't.
He likes like everything is soeffortless that it does Like he
(37:18):
kind of relies on the fact thathe's just bigger and more
athletic than everybody and likeI to you can't ignore that,
like that privilege is what itis Like.
But the thing to me is I comeback to the fact that there's
(37:39):
only so many human beings on theplanet that are that big and
that athletic that can play thewide receiver position.
And so you know, obviously I'ma Tampa guy.
I've watched Mike Evans for along time.
He's not Mike Evans, he's MikeEvans.
He's 20 pounds lighter thanMike Evans was coming out of
Texas A&M.
He's not nearly as physical,but he's also a better route
runner than Mike Evans wascoming out.
Mike Evans was, you know it washim and Johnny Manziel.
(38:00):
It was a lot of go that way,mike, and just be better than
everybody else.
And that worked really, reallywell for the Aggies for those
two seasons.
But you know, so he's.
He has everybody who's comparinghim to Evans.
It's not really, they're justbig and and athletic and that's
not.
It's not a one-to-onecomparison.
But again, there's some thingsthat Mike did really well that
he's not quite there on andthere's some things that he does
(38:21):
well, you know, better thanMike did coming out.
I think Drake London is isprobably a better comp.
Drake wasn't quite as tall butthere's there some similarities
there.
There's smoothness, he's prettysmooth.
After the catch I could see thevision to pairing him with Brian
Thomas Jr and giving opposingdefenses a really, really
(38:44):
problematic decision to make,because you can't roll coverages
either way, and so somebody'sgoing to be one-on-one,
somebody's going to have amismatch.
It's either over the top orit's the fact that a guy like
McMillan is open even when he'scovered.
I mean, if you trot out thosetwo guys, week one, trevor
Lawrence is not going to be sadabout that whatsoever and, like
Jay said earlier, they paid himalready.
So this ship is going to godown or not.
With how Trevor Lawrenceperforms, I've got no problem.
(39:07):
It's the same reason we had theconversation about ashton
gentry and tyler warren at five.
The biggest reason is becausehow do we help this quarterback
that we've already invested into be the franchise guy?
How do we make sure that we hiton that?
Speaker 3 (39:19):
give him one of those guys, and mcmillan I would
absolutely put in thatconversation yeah, yeah, no, I,
I, so I don't have them as likerated as high as you do.
You said said top 10.
I think I got them rated like17th, so I mean it's not like
that big of a spread.
But yeah, I put them like 17thon my big board, I think like
(39:39):
the more I watch at Buka thoughI wasn't like in on his game
until like I really watched itand I almost put him first in
this class, like I almost puthim over Golden class, like I
almost put him over golden,which phil would hate it.
Phil's a texas guy, but I did.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
I put him over golden , sorry, phil.
Yeah, it is what it is, fine,um, but yeah, it's okay to be
wrong, nobody's yeah, no, noyeah, but no, you kind of um.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
You made some good points right about like he's.
I never seen him as mike evanseither.
Like mike evans ran like afreaking four, four, four, three
, by the way, coming out ofcollege.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
By the way, if I think it was four, five flat,
but he was six, five, two thirtyfive, like right.
He's basically a small tightend and ran like almost in the
four, four, like that's.
That's stupid, that's insane.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Yeah, like we had never seen anything like it at
that time.
You know, like not that big, atleast.
Um, so, yeah, that's.
It was like, wow, like thisguy's.
Something else man shout out tomike evans but yeah, man, like
this, this class does excite meas a whole.
Yeah, they definitely got toget a guy in the first three
rounds.
I would think, um, I don't knowabout you and phil on it, but
(40:50):
they need a number two besideBrian Thomas Jr.
He is currently not on thisteam.
But yeah, man, I appreciateyour insight on that man.
Phil, you got any otherquestions?
Speaker 1 (41:01):
No, we have one more that you have, that we have
listed here.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
Oh, I missed it.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
You wrote the questions I wrote the questions.
James is like I have anotherquestion.
You wrote the questions out.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, you'reright, and this is one of my
guys.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Man, how did I miss this?
Uh, but yeah, no.
Another position they need toaddress, like in the top three
rounds, luke, is offensive line.
I think they need to come outof this draft with a start in
offensive line.
I mean, now I know they gotthree guys in free agency, but
you know, I don't think they gotbut one starter of those three
guys out of free agency for thestarting offensive line.
(41:36):
That's makari.
Of course, like the money, whichisn't like crazy money, but
it's enough for you to say likethis guy has to start for at
least the first two years of hiscontract.
Makari is the only guy that Ican really like pencil in in
free agency that they got.
That should start right, andthen the other guys were already
on the team.
What are your thoughts on thisoverall?
(41:57):
Like offensive line class,because I think the Jaguars are
going to be in a position wherethey probably won't be able to
address it until like roundthree.
Basically, do you think likethere is depth there past round
two for them to be able to get astarter Like my guy that I keep
penciling in and a lot of Jazzfans keep penciling in and Phil
likes him too.
Tate Ratlidge from UGA.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
I knew it was going to be Tate Ratlidge.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
That's my guy man.
I like Tate man, but is it anyothers like in that range with
him that you can see them maybeget in like round three or four,
Because I mean that's kind oflike the round specialty.
By the way, talking about JamesGladstone and where he came
from, that's their hit range.
Is that third, fourth, fifthround, sometimes like Kyron
(42:43):
Williams, right, puka and someothers that are escaping my mind
right now.
But yeah, like, can they findlike some starters past round
two?
Speaker 2 (42:53):
I think it's going to be tough.
I'm not going to lie.
I think both the tackle and theinterior offensive line classes
I really like the guys that areprobably going to go in those
first two rounds and then itgets real skinny, real fast.
I think especially there's somedevelopmental guys I like in
that range but you're startingto get out of the range Again.
Tate Rattledge, for me, is atop 50 player in this draft.
(43:14):
I feel like I said this theother day to somebody.
I think we've gotten tooobsessed with versatility when
it comes to offensive linemennowadays that we don't see a
high quality starter staring usin the face when he's only
played one position.
My man, tate Rattledge, went tothe right guard spot and said
this is where I live.
I'm going to stay here forthree years and just play really
good football and do thisreally, really well.
(43:36):
And that's what he did.
And then he went to the combineand lit it up.
He is huge, he is athletic andhe is experienced against top
competition at that spot.
So if you want to be able toplug in a guy at right guard,
he's the guy, I agree.
I just don't.
I don't think that guy makes itto the third round.
The experience, the athleticismagain playing in the SEC.
I don't know that goes like youknow.
(43:58):
Jonas Savanea from Arizona isthe same way.
Donovan Jackson, ohio StateAgain I think those are round
two guys.
Gray Zabel could be a firstround guy, same with Tyler
Booker.
So Same with Tyler Booker.
So that's all your interiorguys and you're starting to get
into that.
Maybe it's Marcus Bowe fromPurdue who's played some tackle,
but I think he's probably acenter at the next level.
Jared Wilson, the center fromGeorgia, is probably going to go
(44:20):
earlier than a lot of peoplethink.
Jackson Slater from SacramentoState is that Now we're starting
to get into that Rams specialty, like middle round, small
school developmental type guythat I think would be really
good.
Jalen Rivers out of Miami, dylanFairchild from Georgia, miles
Frazier from LSU those are guysthat into the third and fourth
round now maybe you're hopingthey can start.
They've played at a high levelin big conferences but their
(44:44):
film in terms of what they bringto the table has some
inconsistencies that you wonderabout them being able to start
right away, which again gettinginto the fourth round and
expecting to get starters.
It doesn't happen very often,and so if they're not able to
get one of those guys and thetackle class is kind of the same
way there's some guys that Icould see getting to the third
or fourth round that have youknow Anthony Belton from North
Carolina State, emery Jones Jrfrom LSU who have some
(45:07):
experience.
But I really do feel like thereis a significant drop off after
the first two and a half roundsor so that if the jags don't
address that, it's probablygoing to be a later round
developmental guy that that'snot going to make an immediate
impact well, phil, we got tostop mocking tate to the jags in
the third round, so I justdon't see it happening and look
honestly, look at the otherteams too, especially look at
(45:29):
the teams picking on the backend of round two Baltimore,
houston.
So many teams that if he's onthe board when they're picking
and they haven't, then theydidn't go.
You know, interior in the firstround, which they're unlikely
to do.
He just fits way too many teamsin that range that I just the
idea that he would make it tothe third is is I.
I had to give up on that awhile ago too, because he was in
my third round in my box for awhile and then after the comment
(45:51):
I was like, ah, that's notgoing to happen.
Speaker 3 (45:54):
I mean, you're right, Like when I watched the film
like he doesn't feel like thirdround material, which is that's
still when you're talking aboutthird round players, you're
still talking about really goodplayers still but he doesn't
feel like he should go in thethird round.
I want to ask one more question.
This he should go in the thirdround.
I want to ask one more question.
This is a guy that you hit thenail on the head with the
comparison.
(46:14):
It came to my mind the daybefore you tweeted this.
I saw it Memboo man.
You compared him to TristanWirfs and I was saying that same
thing, like three days ago.
I was like I finally and I'mnot a comparison guy I'm
terrible, I hate him, I hate procomparisons.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
I I'm terrible, I hate them.
I hate pro comparisons.
I only say them when they jumpout at me.
I can't stand them.
I like stupid ones, likesomebody comped Cam Scadaboo to
Gimli from Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Like I was about that , like that's fine, right, that
could be a whole article.
You should definitely do that.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
That's what I mean.
Like, I like the silly comps.
We were talking about WillieLampkin from North Carolina, the
short offensive lineman, and Isaid he was like three Kirby
Puckets in a trench coatsideways Like.
Those are the comps I'm herefor.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Nick Emanwuri is Kawhi Leonard Like those are the
types of comps I'm here for.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
But no, I agree with you, man.
When I saw Membu play and again, this is high praise coming
from me you know I'm a Bucs guy.
I've watched all of TristanWirth's.
He is a Hall of Famer right now.
He is the only tackle in thehistory of the National Football
League to be a first-teamAll-Pro as a right tackle and
then switch to left tackle andbe first-team All-Pro as a left
tackle.
(47:22):
He's the only person to haveever done that.
That's insane.
So for me, to comp anybody tothat guy is high praise and I
think honestly that's why you'reseeing them start to get mocked
to the Raiders.
Because who's the GM in LasVegas now?
It's John Spitek, who spent allof he drafted Tristan Wurst.
He's part of that front office.
He knows what that type of guycan mean.
(47:43):
Armand Membu is the number fourplayer on my board.
He is the first guy after thatelite tier of those three guys
that I mentioned earlier.
First guy after that elite tierof those three guys that I
mentioned earlier, it's ArmandMbembe with four for me.
So that tells you what I thinkof him.
Everybody's going to be like oh, he's the right tackle.
Who cares?
Absolutely.
Elite athlete who is dominant,whose film is amazing.
Who put every SEC rusher in thedirt.
(48:04):
Who finishes man.
I love that dude.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
He's one of my favorite players in this draft.
Me too, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
I've been talking to us for a few weeks now.
Man, I would be totally okaywith it.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
I would be, I'd be, I'd be over the moon about you
cannot go wrong taking eliteoffensive linemen with rare
athleticism and really good tapein the sec I think I gotta do
that.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
Seven on my big board and I almost put him higher too
.
He was one of those guys Istruggle with with like loveland
and em like not putting themhigher than they were.
But so the reason like I Istarted to like become like hip
to him is I was watching JavonFoster last year.
Cause print ballkeeper draftedJavon Foster and you're like
(48:46):
let's look like he might noteven make the team We'll see no
disrespect to him.
But that being said, like when Iwas watching Foster last year,
I kept getting stuck on a dudeacross from him.
I was like who is this massivekid just like moving people
around like nobody could doanything with them.
And here we come, we rollaround.
I was telling Phil like lastmonth I was like Phil, I know
(49:09):
where I remember Mimble from.
He was the dude that I kepttalking about last year when I
was telling Phil like last monthI was like Phil, I know where I
remember Mimbo from.
He was the dude that I kepttalking about last year when I
was watching Foster and I keptgetting sidetracked from
watching Foster.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
So yeah, like he.
He's asked Trent if he thoughthe was picking.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
Mimbo.
You know what Did he watch?
The film backward Was hisscreen mirrored or something.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Was his face in the wrong way?
He thought he was getting 79?
.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
Shame on me and Phil, because we've shared a press
conference room with TrentBaalke and we should have asked
the right questions.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
Hey, missed opportunities.
We've all had them.
Speaker 3 (49:44):
Right, right, but yeah, that's it, man, unless,
like I said, phil, I think yousaid you're good, you don't have
anything else, right?
Speaker 1 (49:50):
No, I think you said you're good, you don't have
anything else, right?
No, I think we're good, luke.
I guess the last thing I wantto ask you very important
question, alluding to thediscussion we were having before
we got on Are you a 2017 PowerRangers truther, like I am, and
saying that that was a goodmovie and they should have
gotten another shot?
Phenomenal movie.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Absolutely loved that movie.
Great reinvention, great newtwist on it.
I mean Daiquiri Montgomery wasfantastic, we have Brian
Cranston, elizabeth Banks weregreat I'd love and obviously the
cameos at the end were great.
No, that was fun, man, I agreeDiehard, diehard fan and I am
absolutely a truther on thatmovie.
It was a win.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
Perfect.
I don't even remember anythingelse we talked about.
But, luke, thank you so muchfor coming on here today, please
.
As I mentioned to everybody,the your final four round mock
draft dropped here today, april21st, but you also have some
stuff coming up leading up toThursday.
If you could, please leteverybody know where they can
find that, and everything willalso be linked in the show notes
of this episode.
Speaker 2 (50:47):
Yeah, man.
So the top 300 big board is up.
I've got uh links to a lot ofthe player scouting reports that
you'll find in the athlonsports uh nfl draft magazine
that we put out every year soyou can click on those player
names that that light up and youcan see the scouting reports on
those guys as well.
Same for the four round mockdraft.
Um, I'll have a final firstround mock draft thursday
morning, the morning that thedraft kicks off, which will
(51:07):
actually be like the only.
The only time I ever try to getthe picks right is that last
mock draft.
Every other one is just tryingto present as many different
scenarios as possible so thatfans are kind of ready for
everything.
But that last one on Thursdaymorning will just be the first
round.
That'll be me actually saying,hey, this is what I actually
think is going to happen tonight.
And then all through the draft,I'll be live grading every
(51:27):
first round pick onAthlonsportscom.
I have a ton of analysis.
Right after that I'll have aday two mock draft immediately
after the first round Bestavailable players.
Same for the fourth round onday three, and then we'll get
into the undrafted free agentsand before you know it, man.
You'll be seeing Arch Manningat the top of my 2026 mock draft
way too soon.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
There we go, luke Easterling of Athlon Sports.
Thank you so much for the timeand we hope to speak to you soon
.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Absolutely, man.
This was a blast.
This is.
We waited too long.
Let's do it again.
Thanks, luke.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Appreciate it.
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