Episode 114: An "Intangibly Rich" Draft

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Still ready.
And no, that is a no no.
Touchdown Jacksonville.
A hundred and nine yardsIncredible Play action.
Bortles Upstairs Wide open.

(00:44):
Tommy Bohannon, touchdownJacksonville.
Looking for Jimmy in the endzone.
Touchdown Jaguars.
Touchdown Jaguars.
Touchdown Jaguars.
Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguarspodcast.
Here are your hosts, jamesJohnson and Phil Smith.

(01:08):
Hey everyone, welcome back tothe Touchdown Jaguars podcast.
I'm your co-host, phil Smith,and joining me, as always, is
your other co-host, jamesJohnson, and Jay.
We are here after a crazy NFLdraft weekend and you know there
were plenty of scenarios in ourhead where we're like, yeah,
maybe they can pull this off,but is it gonna happen?

(01:31):
Probably not, and I think whatwe learned over this past
weekend, jay, that's the old way, that's the old guard.
We're in a new era here inJacksonville with Jimmy
Gladstone, jimmy G, the Jimmy Gwheeling and dealing over the
weekend and it resulted inTravis Hunter becoming a

(01:52):
Jacksonville Jaguar.
Of course, we're going to talkabout the NFL draft as a whole,
but, man, jay, it started offwith a bang and I am excited to
talk about it.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
No, yeah, man, like this is.
This is the stuff I was talkingabout, Right, when we, you know
, we got rid of Trent and got anew GM these are the scenarios I
talked about that we ordinarilywouldn't see, with Trent
trading up boldness, whichthey've been talking about right
out of the gate.
Fishing on James Gladstone'sfirst draft is the icing on the

(02:25):
cake, man.
Now, we had discussed in ourthread the possibility of
trading up right, but, as yousaid, like we didn't really like
think it would come intofruition, right, we just knew
that the Browns would beprobably smart enough to stand
pat where they were and take oneof the blue chippers right,
which we figured it wouldn't beJente, but it would be like

(02:48):
Carter or Hunter.
That being said, jamesGladstone, shout out to him for
calling them.
I think they said this had beenin the works.
They spoke with them and putthe deal in place on the 7th,
and so April the 7th.
So shout outs to him for doinghis homework, getting that done.
I think we're going to see theunfolding of that on the hunt.

(03:11):
They showed a little teaserabout that.
So, yeah, shout outs to themfor being prepared to have that
done.
And yeah, man, like just lookingat the compensation we gave up
which you know we'll talk aboutit later and how we feel about
it but knowing God's beautifulblue, green and white earth,

(03:32):
trent Baalke would have donethat right as soon as they would
have said first for return.
He would have probably had ananeurysm.
So I love this bold new stancethat the organization is taking
and you know they sawopportunity to come up to get a
blue chip player.
You know the draft wasn'tnecessarily one that was deep,

(03:53):
so when you put those two thingsinto, like your mindset, I
understand why they did it.
And yeah, we'll talk about thata little bit later.
Man, I'm very excited aboutthis pick man, to say the least.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah, trambalky would have been like, like okay, but
can you give me some sixths, canyou give me some six round
picks and then maybe we'll uh,we'll talk.
But yeah, we're gonna breakdown the nfl draft and, like I
said, what was a very, very uheventful weekend, and not just
for the jacksonville jaguars.
I do want to have aconversation, jay, uh, kind of
akin to what we had in our groupchat about Shador Sanders, just
for the sake of theconversation.

(04:30):
But let's focus on the Jaguarsfirst before we do so.
Welcome.
Thank you so much for all ofour returning and brand new
listeners to the show.
Make sure you check out theLinktree link in the show notes
of this episode to findeverything you need to keep up
with us over on social media, aswell as the website touchdown
jaguarscom.
And you can still use our promocode touchdown Jaguars over on

(04:50):
Seageek to save $20 on yourfirst purchase off of your first
purchase.
But yeah, let's just go, uh,let's just do a rundown here of
all the picks that the Jaguarsmade over the weekend, of course
, starting off with round one.
Pick two overall Travis Hunter,db, wide receiver out of
Colorado.
They didn't pick again untilthe third round picked 88 and 89

(05:12):
.
After another trade, caleb Brandsaw DB out of Tulane and then
Wyatt Milam, inside offensivelineman from West Virginia.
In the fourth round they wonBashaw Tutin, running back out
of Virginia Tech, a truespeedster.
Jack Kaiser, linebacker out ofNotre Dame, at pick 107.
And then in rounds six andseven they go Jalen McLeod,

(05:34):
linebacker out of Auburn, rayonLane safety out of Navy, jonah
Monheim center, from USC, andthen their final pick in the
seventh round, laquint Adam,another running back out of
Syracuse.
So, jay, let's start with roundone.
Uh, you know, we did not haveto wait very long.
We weren't really gonna have towait too long to begin with,
because they originally, ofcourse, held pick number five,

(05:56):
but rumblings throughout the daythat the Jaguars and the Browns
had been talking and that theJaguars were in were very much
interested in coming up.
Now I feel like a lot of timesrumors like this swirl in every
single draft and ultimately likenot very much happens, and this
year certainly was not the case.

(06:17):
So here's what happenedCleveland received the number
five pick, a second round pick,which was pick number 36, a
fourth round pick, which wasnumber 126, and then a 2026
first round pick from thejaguars and in return we
received, of course, that numbertwo pick, a fourth rounder pick
, number 104, and a sixth roundpick, pick 200, and that was

(06:40):
news that broke very early intothe draft.
I do.
They are a are a division rival, so of course, we love any
opportunity to have thespotlight taken away from the
Titans.
I do feel a little bit bad forthe kid in terms of Cam Ward,
because this is a huge moment tobe picked number one overall
for a guy that went through whathe went through in terms of Cam

(07:00):
Ward and being a zero starprospect.
You know I do feel a little badfor him in terms of getting
that moment taken away from him.
But again, it's the Titans, soit is what it is.
So Travis Hunter ends up beingthe pick number two overall and
Jay, very rarely and JamesGladstone talked about this in
his press conference very rarelydo you get to take a player
that can change the game offootball, and we very rarely see

(07:23):
trades of this magnitude for anon-quarterback right.
But Travis Hunter, I feel likeand a lot of people feel the
same way is a special case.
So take us back to Thursdaynight where we're hanging out.
I was actually recording for myother podcast, so things were
kind of hectic.
I was all over the place.
But news breaks the Jaguars aremoving up.
We're on the clock.

(07:44):
What?

Speaker 2 (07:46):
are your thoughts?
Yeah, I were.
I was getting settled stillwhile the news was coming in and
they were making um the pickfor cam, who, um, by the way, I
think after I watched him onfilm and put him on my big board
, I think the kid has sometalent you know you'll be
wanting to watch out for.
So I don't know that.
You know I rated him overShador and I think I had Cam at

(08:09):
nine, shador at 16 on the bigboard I posted.
So I didn't see like a bigtalent discrepancy or you know,
in terms of ranking him asprospects.
But yeah, he's going to beinteresting to watch man and, as
you said, like you hate to seethe spotlight get taken from him
but at the same time when yourealize he went to the Titans,
it's all good.
Like you get over that realquickly.

(08:32):
In terms of you know, the TravisHunter situation man like it
was, it was kind of euphoric manfrom the standpoint of you know
I put him as the number oneplayer on my big board.
So you know, from thatperspective I saw that we were
getting the top player who notonly that I felt was the best

(08:53):
player in the draft but a lot ofanalysts agreed with that right
.
So it was exciting for that andyou know, like I couldn't put
it into words at the time butnow I can.
It kind of feels like when wegot Jalen Ramsey right Two kind
of in some ways differentpersonalities but at the same
time two similar personalitiesright and of course they both

(09:16):
played a cornerback position.
I would probably say Jalen ismore outspoken than Travis in
terms of trash talk, but Travisisn't a guy that you're going to
go on the field and push overeither.
But now that I'm processing itnow, it feels very much like
we're getting a JalenRamsey-like superstar.

(09:36):
And you know, I like thatbecause it hurt a lot of us when
we lost Jalen Ramsey right.
So I think, like I said, atthat time I couldn't process it.
But yeah, to be able to get asuperstar that magnitude and
also to, as I said, in regardsto the new regime, showing how
bold they will be.
Because you know, as you know,phil, like one thing that I

(09:59):
really hated about the TrentBaalke regime is just not just
the complacency but just howscared he was to trade up right.
We talked about the only onethat comes to mind in terms of
him trading up and beingsomewhat bold, was Calvin Ridley
right, but me and you have said, had the other team said, give

(10:21):
us a first round pick, thattrade wouldn't happen.
So the conversation was alwayslike well, when push comes to
shove and the team is in a placewhere they need just that one
more blue chip player or thatone last blue chip player to get
them over the top, is TrentBaalke the person that could get
us that blue chip player, and alot of times it takes a first

(10:43):
round pick to get that playersometimes right, and the answer
that I kept coming up with wasno, no, he wouldn't.
That being said, it's good tosee right off the bat.
In his first draft, jamesGladstone showed the boldness
and also too, I guess I'll talkabout the compensation we gave

(11:04):
up and what it costs to come up.
I'm okay with it, you know, andI'll flip this over to you and
ask if you're okay with it,because I'm of the mindset that
our division is like one of theweakest in football and it
wouldn't be surprising if we'repicking in the back half of the
first round next year.
Anyway, you know, and thatmight not even necessarily be

(11:26):
because we improved drastically,but because the Texans didn't
improve as much as they shouldhave.
You know it could be somethinglike that, but you know we could
very well be in a divisionwhere it's not very hard to win.
We already know the Titans.
They're rebuilding, right.

(11:46):
They have a rookie quarterbackin Cam Ward.
They're not going to be goodright off the bat, you would
think.
And then we already know theColts situation.
They can't even figure outtheir quarterback right now.
So we've had that conversationmany, many times because we're
Jaguars fans, when you don'thave a quarterback, you're
pretty much lost, unless youhave this elite defense like we

(12:13):
had in 2017.
So I can envision us overtakingthe Texans, right, and being
picking 20 or something laterthan that.
So I don't mind it one bit.
But, yeah, I want to know yourthoughts on how you feel about
the compensation giving up yeah,f them picks right.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
That's the the new mentality.
But no, I am okay with it aswell.
Like we said and like jamesladstone stated, that we already
discussed, you know, when youhave an opportunity to take a
guy like a travis hunter and youfeel like you know that
opportunity is within grasp,then you do it.
You know, and we're sick andtired of being complacent here

(12:49):
in Jacksonville could it notwork out?
Possibly could we be in asituation like you know, the
Panthers were, where they endedup also having the number one
pick again next year.
I guess it is possible becausewe're the Jacksonville Jaguars
and things just happen to us forsome reason.
But I also agree, I believethey could be competitive at the

(13:10):
very least in a division.
Like you said, that is reallykind of scrambling outside of
Houston, you know, and even theyhave issues when it comes to
specifically offensive line,like what are they going to do?
They picked up some reallysolid receivers, receivers that
we are fans of over there inHouston.
But also, you know, if theycan't stop Trayvon Walker and
Josh Hines Allen, then you knowwhat I like our chances.

(13:33):
So we'll see how that goes.
But yeah, I'm totally okay withit and also they reloaded a
little bit later with thosetwo-thirds and getting two third
round picks for next year ishuge and I think it also goes to
show you that they weren'tgoing to, you know, reach for
players that weren't necessarilyhiring their boards a little
bit later on in the draft aswell.

(13:53):
So they'll have the ammunitionto move and to maneuver back
into the first if they want to,if they identify that player, um
, in terms of like the back halfof the draft.
Obviously I don't know what thedraft class is going to look
like this year.
Nobody knows because I think amock draft at this time last

(14:13):
year you know the way too earlymocks had, like Carson Beck as a
top eight pick.
So no one knows what the hellis going to happen a year from
now when it comes to the NFLdraft.
So I'm totally OK with it andbelieve, at least from what I've
seen so far, that if they dosee an opportunity to move
around and maybe get back in andidentify a player that they
like, they'll be able to do so.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah, I agree too.
Yeah, you hit on something Iforgot to touch on.
Like you know, picking at five,you were kind of in a
compromising position, like you.
You know we had wrapped ourmind around and we're okay with
it, them taking gentee there.
But again, my argument wasalways is that the best use of
resources?
You know?

(14:55):
And obviously what we found outby the end of this draft, right
, phil, is that they, it wouldappear that at the very least
they might love what they haveat the top of their depth chart
at running back.
You know, we'll talk about thetwo pickups they got, obviously,
and they got some undraftedpeople probably too, but we'll

(15:16):
talk about what they got at therunning back position.
But what that says is that theylike their top two guys taint
bigsby and travis et and atleast enough, right?
So I mean and you know there'salways the argument that none of
them are anywhere close to onJente's level but yeah, I think,
like picking at five, like theyweren't going to be satisfied,

(15:39):
like fully satisfied with whatthey would end up with, right,
whether that was Graham who youknow they might've had some
concerns about, for whateverreason, people kept, you know,
magically mocking him to them,but their willingness to trade
up speaks otherwise.
Like that, there might've beensome concerns there.
Again, you know, when you talkabout Gentee, that's a great

(16:01):
pick and all, but is it the bestuse of resources, right,
picking a running back that high?
So, yeah, that's a good pointthat you make, man, they weren't
happy with necessarily pickingthat five.
Maybe, and I mean I like their,you know their boldness to move
up out of that spot.
And again, you know, kudos toJames Gladstone for realizing to

(16:25):
that.
And this probably comes frombeing with the Rams for so long.
Not only are we talking aboutnext year.
That pick may not be as high inthe order as we think it could
be, but what if the JacksonvilleJaguars aren't picking high for
a very long time becausethey're just good for a stretch
of three years or whatever?
I mean, I know that's crazy tosay because we're the

(16:47):
Jacksonville Jaguars, but that'sstuff that the Rams have had to
deal with.
Right, they were so good forsuch long stretches even though
they didn't have first roundpicks.
Even if they had the firstround picks, right, like they
would have been very in the backof the draft order.
You know they won the SuperBowl one year, who's to say?

(17:10):
We might not be picking in thetop 10 for years and years and
years to come, not just nextyear alone, but the years after
that.
If everything shakes out likeit should, it very well could be
that way.
Because, again, james Gladstonedidn't inherit this roster.
That was terrible.
He already has all of thepremium positions in place.
Because, again, james Gladstonedidn't inherit this roster.
That was terrible.
Right, he already has all ofthe premium positions in place.
That's why it's a shame thatTrent Baalke couldn't capitalize

(17:31):
on it.
Who in God's name would havetheir quarterback in place,
their two defensive ends inplace, and still be picking in
front of the draft order?
Like it makes no sense at all.
So James, on the flip side,understands that, like this
roster is good enough for me tobe good for three years or so,
we might not be picking in thefront of the draft order next

(17:53):
year or years prior to that,right.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
So when you feel like you are close and that was the
whole thing about the AshtonGentry pick is Ashton Gentry
like you, like we'll use examplefor like Saquon Barkley like,
yes, saquon Barkley was leadingthe Giants to the playoffs, uh,
when he was there, when he wasin New York, but they weren't

(18:21):
ever like legitimately SuperBowl contenders.
But when you move a SaquonBarkley to the Philadelphia
Eagles, all of a sudden, thatputs them over the top.
They were already a reallygreat team.
Now they are unquestionably thebest team in football.
I didn't feel like we were anAshton Gentry away from winning
a Super Bowl.
And also, with Ashton Gentry,could you be realistic with

(18:42):
yourself and say the Jaguars aregoing to win a Super Bowl
within the next five or sixyears, when a running back then,
at least by NFL standards, isessentially playing for a second
contract for a different team,right?
So we're talking about lookingthis far down, looking way ahead
.
Is Ashton Gentry even part ofthe team in 2030?
You know, whereas with theTravis, travis Hunter you want

(19:05):
that guy hopefully to be aroundfor 12 years.
So that's also another thingtoo that while we did talk
ourselves into the Gentee pick,it was like, yeah, but you know,
is that really going to put usover the top?
I don't know, not with the.
Uh, you know, and they probablywould have addressed receiver a
little bit later, in differentways, you know, as opposed to
getting Hunter early on.

(19:25):
But you know, and they probablywould have addressed receiver a
little bit later, in differentways, you know, as opposed to
getting Hunter early on.
But you know, who knows whatwould have happened.
But yeah, that's, that's why Iwas.
Another reason why it's like,okay, well, this is a guy that
you hope will be part of theculture, like, think about
coming into 2020, what?
Eight, 27, 28, when the newstadium is here.
You know, we're talking aboutTrevor Lawrence, brian Thomas Jr
, travis Hunter, trayvon Walker,probably Josh Hines-Allen in

(19:49):
another three years.
We're talking about a reallygreat core coming into a whole
new era of Jaguar football.
It starts with those guys andcertainly has continued with
Travis Hunter Very exciting.
I do want to ask Jay I lovedthat they put him on the phone
with both coordinators.
You know he talked about thatin the pre-draft process about

(20:11):
wanting to make sure he was ableto play both sides of the ball.
Love that.
What is your level of?
I don't want to say concern,but like what do you see him as
with us?
You know very, very early on.
Obviously we'll learn a lotonce they get to training camp
and all that.
What is your realisticexpectations for him to be able
to play both sides of the balleffectively here in Jacksonville

(20:32):
?

Speaker 2 (20:34):
oh, yeah, I mean, I have concerns for sure, um,
about him being able to do it,but I think, um, they they have
a plan in place to minimizethose concerns.
Right, you know one thing thatPete Prisco saying we should
really start listening to PetePrisco.
I mean, we already did, youknow, we already had a great
deal of respect for Pete, but wereally should start listening

(20:56):
to Pete now because of how closehe is with Tony Bocelli.
You know one thing Pete wassaying is you know, from what he
hears, is they really want tohave him as an offensive weapon
that can maybe come in ondefense, on third downs or
crucial downs or something likethat.
So we're more so looking at areceiver than a cornerback.

(21:18):
Now, look, travis has a way ofgetting his way and not in a bad
way, like you know.
He's just a guy that he'sinfectious, you know, and he may
can get on the field more thanhe should, and you may could
talk Liam Cohen into getting himon the field more than he
should.
But I think, yeah, the primarygoal, and especially when you

(21:39):
look at the philosophy of thecoach, his mindset of Liam Cohen
being an offensive coordinatorat his heart, in his mind an
offensive mind.
I think when you trade upanyway and give up what they
gave up, their mindset isprobably like we got a premium
wide receiver to pair with BrianThomas Jr.

(22:02):
Now again and I'm writing thethe scout report and it might be
done today in terms of can hedo it?
You know, you certainly can'ttell him that he can't do it.
He believes he can.
But one thing that I noticedwhen I was writing the scout
report it never really dawned onme is he does have a little bit

(22:23):
of an injury history, right,and I've kind of mentioned this
in our thread as well, but itreally didn't like come into
like a full blown realizationuntil I was writing the scouting
report.
But he has a little bit of aninjury history and also one of
the things that I wrote on thescouting report is that he has a
frame to add mass, but hedoesn't have a lot of mass on

(22:45):
his frame right now.
So when you look at that andyou consider, like you know,
he's been through a few injurysituations and what have you
that you know, limiting whatyou're going to do with him on
defense might be smart, becauseright now I don't know that he
has the frame to withstand theNFL.

(23:06):
And look, man, we're talkingabout the NFL.
These owners are talking aboutadding an additional game
eventually, right, and youalready have players while he is
coming into the league.
He's new to the league, need Iremind you.
He's coming into the leaguesaying I want to play both sides
of the ball consensus.
And most players already in theleague are saying right now heck
, we're playing too many gamesas it is.

(23:28):
If we had it our way, we wouldhave one less game.
And basically the argument hasbeen like they're asking too
much out of us in terms of whatour bodies can take.
That's always been the battlebetween the NFLPA and the owners
, right?
So, that being said, like mostplayers in the league right now,

(23:50):
probably you know, when he isfully established in the league,
he'll tell them like man, hey,I know you have fun doing this
and everything, man, but justfor the wear and tear on your
body, you know, it might be wiseto just like stick to one side
of the ball or go with the planthat, like I said, that Pete
Prisco kind of mentioned, washaving him play predominantly

(24:12):
receiver, come in maybe on thirddowns or something, but even
that's kind of questionableearly in his career, at least
until I feel like he adds moremass to his frame.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, I didn't pay like a whole lot of attention to
colorado football, but I doremember him uh, you know,
missing some time.
So, when you talk about likethe amount of snaps that he was
playing in college, like it'sjust not going to be sustainable
in the nfl.
To the same, when we're talkingabout pure, just numbers, when
we're talking about how manysteps he could play in the in

(24:46):
the NFL, so definitely I'mexcited to see how they're able
to utilize him on both sides ofthe football.
But, yeah, when you're talkingabout like the elite of the
elite when it comes to athletes,you know like what is it?
Two percent of college playersever play professional football,
and then it's an even lowernumber than that that stick
around.

(25:06):
We're talking about the, thetop tier athletes and people
that also are very aware of whoyou are and what you represent
and how you're confident thatyou can play both sides of the
football.
Where there's going to be a guythat's playing safety or on the
opposite side of the ballplaying, uh, you know, wide

(25:26):
receiver or running back ortight end, that's going to be
like all right, well, let's showthis kid really what it's going
to be like if he wants to be onboth sides of the football.
So but in terms of just him asa person and what he adds to
this team and also thiscommunity, I mean just an
infectious guy when you talkabout his joy that he brings to
not just football but also lifeand I know there's going to be

(25:48):
conversations about thatrelationship and listen, we'll
let other people talk about thatwhat's going on with Travis
Hunter and his personal life?
But in terms of what we've seenfrom him, we talked about this
in the very first 2025 draftpreview episode.
We did, jay.
It told me everything I neededto know about Travis Hunter when
he brought that kid fromColorado State on.

(26:09):
After they kind of got into itand he got hurt in that game and
you know, the Colorado Statekid was getting like death
threats and stuff.
That told me all I needed toknow about Travis Hunter, the
person.
So all we need to do is put ittogether on the football field
and we're going to be in goodshape for sure.
But let's move on to the rest ofthe draft here.
Once again, they did not pickagain until pick 88 in the third

(26:34):
round, where they want DB again.
Jay, obviously one theme wedefinitely saw with three picks
in this draft is they are nothappy with secondary.
They are not happy with howthat group looks, and they
addressed it a couple differenttimes in this draft.
And the number 88 pick wasCaleb Ransaw DB out of Tulane a

(26:55):
guy, jay, that I know nothingabout, was not paying attention
to Tulane football whatsoever,and I don't think you were
either, but you have gotten achance to watch some film and do
a little bit of a breakdown onhim.
So what are the Jags getting as, at least as far as what you've
seen so far from Caleb Ransaw?

Speaker 2 (27:12):
yeah, I saw one tape of him against Navy and, um,
yeah, he's a guy that he was alittle bit taller than I thought
he was too.
When I like, looked at him and,of course, like immediately
what we found out.
Because everybody was like,whoa, what are we doing?
Another cornerback, right, weimmediately found out, like that
, james Gladstone, in his pressconference he was saying, yeah,

(27:33):
we're probably going to put thiskid at safety, where he's
better suited for his skill setis probably better suited for
the safety position.
You know, I did see a guy whoyou, you know, keeps his eyes on
the target, on his target forthe most part, which sometimes
can get you in trouble too,because football is a deceptive
game.

(27:53):
You can see one thing, but it'sactually something else.
But he, you know one thing Inoticed that he does keep his
eye on the backfield and what'sgoing on in the backfield.
And another thing that Inoticed I think actually they
might have mentioned this on oneof the scouting reports that he
tackles well as well.

(28:14):
So, you know, I love seeingthings like this, because this
is something that we talkedabout for four years with Trent
Baalke.
Every year he would watch thisteam miss tackles on film and
not go in the draft and addressit with people that could tackle
better.
It made no sense, right?
Like I literally got a tweet uplast year about in January like

(28:36):
Trent needs to be looking forsure tacklers and the tackling
didn't feel like it got worselast year.
You know what I'm saying.
So this is something obviouslyagain talking about stark
differences between this regimeand the past regime.
They recognize right off the batnot only that, what you
mentioned, that that secondarywas terrible, which you've heard
me say it, phil, I hatedwatching our defense on film.

(28:58):
It made me sick, it really did.
I mean our offense wasn't greateither, but the defense
especially just it really did.
I mean our offense wasn't greateither, but the defense
especially just disappointed me.
They realized that thatsecondary wasn't it right.
You know they got rid of guyslike Andre Sisco, right.
Then you get a young kid herein Ransaw.
They got rid of Ronald Darby,right.
That also shows theirdispleasure, not just the

(29:20):
additions they made in the draftfield, but them getting rid of
two guys that played a lot ofsnaps for us last year, you know
, and I don't want to say likegetting rid of them per se, but
not resigning Cisco, and I thinkthey flat out cut Darby, so
they got rid of him.
So yeah, that being said, manCaleb, I want to watch some more
film on him, but what I did seeis I do feel like they're right

(29:42):
to believe he has more of asafety skill set.
Now, I think I read on Twittertoo, where he transferred from a
school previously because hewas following the coaching staff
that was with that school thateventually became the coaching
staff of Tulane.
But when he was initially withthe first team that he was with
I think it was Ransaw that theywere talking about he was a

(30:04):
better scheme fit fit.
So a lot of people just feellike, schematically, in Tulane
he wasn't a good scheme fit andhad he been a good scheme fit,
he would have probably gone alot higher than he did.
But the Jacksonville Jaguars,you know, and James Gladstone
case saw through it and they sawlike, hey, you know this this
kid's playing out of, but he'llmake a darn good safety.

(30:25):
So, yeah, I can't wait to see,like, what plans they have for
him in the future.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, obviously a need at safety and yeah, as you
mentioned and this is from thePFF report a very low missed
tackle percentage throughout hiscareer.
Strong run defender with goodplay, strength and um, yeah, I,
I was, like I said, not familiarwith caleb ransaw or tulane
football in terms of whatthey've done in the last few

(30:53):
years, but certainly a solidpick there, from what everybody
along with yourself is saying,jay, um.
And then they also picked atpick number 89, the, the very
next selection, I believe in atrade with Houston Don't quote
me on that if I'm if I'mincorrect, but I'm pretty sure
it was Houston.
But they want offensive line,jay.

(31:14):
When we spoke with Luke lastweek, you know we discussed, you
know, are they going to be ableto address offensive line
within those, those first threerounds and hopefully come away
with a starter, and he statedit's going to be difficult.
So there is some movement herewith them moving back up to pick
89 and taking Wyatt Milam fromWest Virginia, a guy PFF grade

(31:37):
91 last year and a guy who didnot allow any sacks last season
at left tackle.
So what do you think from whatyou've seen from Wyatt so far,
is this guy a future starter.
And what did you see when youput on the tape?

Speaker 2 (31:54):
I think so I believe he is a starter.
And I didn't go deep into theoffensive line class after that
big board I made.
I think I went into about 50players maybe.
So when you get into the thirdround it got a little bit murky.
So I had to watch him after wedrafted him.
Him and, um, yeah, no, I thinkyou know, because I was

(32:22):
concerned with what Luke saidabout there not being, um, the
potential to maybe grab somebodyin the third round that would
be a starter for this offensiveline, because I knew it was
going to come to that feeling.
Lo and behold, we were right.
They weren't able to address theoffensive line in the first two
rounds, partially because theytraded for Travis Hunter, which
you'll take that trade off, youknow, but at the same time, like
we're talking about keepingTrevor Lawrence upright, so it

(32:43):
is an important thing.
So, yeah, anyway.
That being said, yeah, I thinkwe got a starter because just
looking at, like, the PFF gradeswhich I went and watched film
afterwards, but looking at thePFF grades is, you know, he had
like a 91 in terms of hisoverall grade, if I'm not
mistaken.
As a matter of fact, I'll pullit up right here.

(33:04):
I got it in my, yeah, a 91overall grade, 89.2 in terms of
run blocking and then for passblocking he was a 92.5.
So, yeah, in terms of what Isaw on film, I saw a long arm,
long, just in general, like helooked like a Trent Baalke guy.

(33:26):
I hate to say that, but at thesame time I saw a guy that was,
you know, very strong in the rungame.
I saw a guy that would get flatout extensions on defensive
tackles, defensive ends.
Now, again, his snaps were atleft tackle and I noticed that
he did.
And after I noticed that I wentback and read the scouting

(33:48):
report after that that said thesame thing.
I noticed he seemed a littlebit heavy footed for playing
tackle, offensive tackle andthat's totally fine, right?
That's why they're moving himto guard, right?
He just doesn't have the feetto play tackle.
And, as we mentioned, phil, likewhen you're playing offensive
tackle, you're dealing with themost elite athletes in the game.

(34:08):
Arguably, you know you'retalking about these defensive
ends, like Josh Allen, andwhat's your guy named from the
Dallas Cowboys that's escapingme right now.
Defensive end Now, jesus, micahParsons, micah Parsons.
Yeah, I almost call him a carpart.
Micah Parsons.
Micah Parsons, you're dealingwith athletes like that

(34:29):
routinely, but you know that'sOK that he's heavy footed,
that's OK that he doesn't havethe footwork to play offensive
tackle because they're movinghim to guard.
Now look, if push came to shoveand you're in a pinch and
they've talked about this youmight put them at offensive
tackle for a game, right,depending on the opponent.
And that's one thing.
They kind of stress is likelet's get versatile guys as well

(34:50):
.
But going back to them playedguard at the senior bowl.
I think that caught a lot ofpeople's eyes.
I sent y'all a video of himgetting like super aggressive in
the practice drills with oneguy, like they were almost about
to fight, which you love to seein terms of a guard.
You know like it didn't get toocrazy.
Nobody threw any punches oranything.
But yeah, like I said, I saw astrong guard presence there.

(35:15):
Like I said, he got fullextensions with his long arm
lift.
It seems like he has long arms.
I'm going to pull up my notes,the rest of my notes here.
I did see him whiff quite a bitand I did see him he kind of
looks uncoordinated when hereached the second level in
terms of the linebackers.
So that's kind of one of thosethings you kind of see with some
players, offensive linemen whenthey're in space and they're

(35:37):
not in the phone booth or inclose quarter situations, they
kind of look lost and they whiffon linebackers and things like
that.
But again, with him playing atguard, he won't have to deal
with a lot of these things thatI'm mentioning.
Yeah, I mean, aside from all ofthat man, I just saw a powerful
player that we've long missed.
Man, I've talked about it for along time.
Man, god bless his soul.

(35:58):
Man, I miss the days where wehad Vince Manowai just moving
people at ease, right.
I miss the days where we hadguys like Tony Pashos moving
people with ease I'm probablyshowing my age here and all of
those guys and where MauriceJones, drew, just kind of had
his way with offenses and I seem, it seems like the Jacksonville

(36:20):
Jaguars, and especially LiamCohen, want to get back to that
and yeah, that's what they gothere with this kid.
Also, one more thing that Icouldn't help but notice in his
interview, you know, with themedia right off the bat he's
talking about.
I'm not letting anybody touchTrevor Lawrence, man, like right
off the bat.
I love that.
Again, it might take him alittle time to get adjusted to

(36:43):
the NFL game, but I think that'swhat training counts for and I
think we got our future startingguard.
I think he's probably going tostart week one at guard for us
and take the place of EzraCleveland.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, I'm coming out and saying I'm not going to let
anybody touch Trevor Lawrence.
That is a great way toappreciate yourself with your
new fan base, and yet he justlooks like a mauler man.
You know, from what I've seenand you know, all I can really
do on my end is you know, typehis name into Twitter, see what
comes up, see what people aresaying about him.
And one thing I know is that Idid see is that Texans fans

(37:17):
wanted him.
So suck it, houston.
That's certainly something thatmakes me very happy to make
sure that you guys didn't gethim.
But, yeah, I'm very excitedabout that pick and, again, the
potential to get a full-timestarter and a long-term starter
at guard in the third round isvery exciting as well.
Moving on into the fourth round,they had another two picks here

(37:40):
and relatively close together.
Once again, the running backwent.
This is where they went runningback and not any of the names
that, not a name that we hadbeen circling.
You know, of course, rj Harveywent before we had an
opportunity to take him.
That's the guy that we had beencircling for quite some time.
But Basial Tootin running backout of Virginia Tech at pick 104

(38:02):
, and then linebacker JackKaiser at pick 107 from Notre
Dame.
So talk about those two picksthere.
Jay Tootin is just a full-onspeedster, right, probably one
of the fastest players in thedraft, so where does he fit in?
We'll start there in terms ofthat running back room, and you
know what kind of impact do youthink it has, if any, on Travis

(38:24):
Etienne and Tank Bigsby?

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah, I mean I don't think like he's gonna push
either one of them likeimmediately.
I think he has a little bit ofwork to do in terms of just
being a flat out running back.
That can help this team.
I think I read this somewherethat they want to use him more
so for special teams things, forspecial teams usage.

(38:49):
That being said, when I watchedhim on film I think I seen two
tapes of him, two full tapes ofhim.
One thing I noticed is I thinkI've seen like two tapes of him,
like two full tapes of him.
One thing I noticed is, while hehas all of the speed in the
world, he's a little bit of aone cut person and he's not
going to like necessarily dodgea lot of people.
A lot of people think likespeed and explosiveness
translates to elusiveness.

(39:11):
Sometimes that's not the case.
I didn't see him in a situationwhere he was able to dodge a
lot of tackles.
Especially it was times inspace where they'll hit him on
like a zero route or somethingout in the flats and you know he
wasn't like necessarily makingpeople miss.
So I think he's a little bit ofa one cut guy from what I've
seen, and I think DanielJeremiah even said that too as

(39:34):
well when we drafted him.
You know how they put a littlegraphic up of what they do.
Well, and that was one of thethings that popped up and I
noticed that as well.
But, yeah, no, as you said,like explosive, explosiveness in
the, in a sense of straightline speed, is there.
He was what the fastest runningback, I think, in the combine,
if I'm not mistaken, if not him,it might be somebody else we
drafted, but one of the fastestrunning backs in the combine in

(39:55):
terms of this year.
If not, the fastest might besomebody else we drafted, but
one of the fastest running backsin the combine in terms of this
year, if not the fastest,definitely a guy that can help
him on special teams.
And I, you know, I wouldn't beshocked now, even though, like I
said, I don't know that he's athreat to Tank and ETN right now
.
But with the way that LiamCohen's mind works and the you

(40:17):
know offensive expertise that heoffers, I wouldn't be shocked
if you know they are trying towork him in and get some snaps
at running back and in thatbackfield, and you know we have
to account for this.
Travis Etienne could be gonenext year.
So you know you got to start,you know, maybe training
somebody to potentially take hisplace.

(40:38):
And you got to also factor thisin too.
I mean, last year we witnessedLiam he didn't make the draft
decision, but they got BuckyIrvin what third round, fourth
round, something like that andhe's one of the best running
backs in the league right now.
So I wouldn't be shocked ifLiam could get this kid where he
needs to be faster than I canproject him to get there.

(41:00):
But yeah, he was a guy that,like I said, he was just more so
a one-cut guy, but somebody Idid feel like could probably
help them, more so on specialteams than on offense for the
time being yeah, I think more ofa complimentary piece than
anything and also possiblyanother special teams guy that
we could see that back there.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
I think I saw some clips of him doing some punt
returning.
What do you think this means?
You know, just becauseselfishly, you know, since I'm a
Texas fan they took KeelanRobinson in the fifth round last
year.
We didn't really see him toomuch in 2024.
Do you believe he's probablythe odd man out?
I really don't see themcarrying four running backs,
right um, not necessarily.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
Um, I have to look and see how many running backs
that temple kept.
But I mean, in this day and age, like I don't think it's absurd
to keep four running backs onthe roster when you're playing
17 games.
Right, we kind of had thatconversation with doug peterson.
You know how he kind of, whenhe won the super, that's how he
won it with a committee ofrunning backs.
Right, you're going to endureinjuries at that position, right

(42:06):
, you know, we've seen it.
You know, and people, you'rejust going to have it.
It's so physical of a positionit's going to happen.
So, no, not necessarily.
And you know, one thing I kindof mentioned last year, phil,
when we implemented the newkickoff rule, is you need more
than one returner.
You know what I'm saying Withhow they do things in today's

(42:26):
day and age, at least in myopinion, and also too, you know,
maybe you know you want to get,you want to kind of work Parker
Washington out of that return arole, because you might need
him more as a receiver.
We'll see, time will tell.
So maybe this has more so to dowith that than maybe trying to
get Keelan Robinson out.
But you know, we always hearthe whole mantra of you know,

(42:49):
this regime doesn't owe anythingto the past regime and you know
none of these guys.
They have to make a commitmentto none of these guys.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
But no, I don't think necessarily it is a threat to
Keelan Robinson.
Yeah, good point, you know, andthey can also find ways to keep
him around if they don't wantto carry him on the main roster.
You know practice squad and allof that as well.
I do want to talk about somebreaking news that just came
through.
Shout out to Boogie for sendingthis in the group chat.
The Jaguars did just sign freeagent defensive end Emmanuel
Ogbach to a one-year deal, sothey are loading up on depth at

(43:23):
the defensive end position.
So, Jay, what do you thinkabout that?
I don't really think theyaddressed edge in the draft.
So this is a depth move andalso a good veteran guy.
What are your thoughts on this?

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yeah, that took me by surprise.
That's what I get for nottaking, uh, a look at the thread
here and there, man.
But uh, I mean, I like hearingabout, like, and I've never been
like a big agba guy, right, butmaking this kind of move after
the draft, like you can'tcomplain about that at all,
right?
Um, because what it says injames gladstone I'm not shocked
by it, because james gladstoneactually kind of mentioned this

(43:59):
in the press conference theydidn't address defensive line
like they wanted to in the draft, right, and he said like, hey,
we can look at some of theseundrafted kids.
I think they got about 20undrafted kids.
We can maybe address it in thatway, or we can look to some
veterans, right.
So, yeah, this could be a movethat works out.
I mean, we've seen it where Ithink, like late free agency

(44:22):
pickups have helped this team.
Right, one that comes to mindwas I'm blanking on him, he's
with the Titans right now thathe said he built Jack.
Oh the mayor, yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Not Calais Campbell Arden Key.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
Yeah, arden Key, right, right, Arden Key, that
was one of the biggest latepickups we ever had, right, like
the one season that it was here.
So, yeah, no, no.
That being said, man, I likethis in a sense that it kind of
shows that you know this teamagain, this regime thinks so
much differently than the lastregime.
Right, like, hey, we didn't getwhat we needed in the draft

(45:01):
necessarily, and that'ssometimes that's how the draft
shakes out, right, you don'taddress everything you need.
Okay, let's pivot.
Let's go get a guy, a veteranguy, here, because chances are
the undrafted guys that youlooked at probably won't make
the team.
Let's go get a veteran guy at akey position for us.
By the way, you know like aposition that's going to get a
veteran guy at a key positionfor us.
By the way, you know, like aposition that's, you know,

(45:21):
essentially, probably I'll haveto see what they're going to do
with them and what they'll playthem, but you would think like
he's probably going to come inand a role behind Josh Hines,
allen and maybe Trayvon WalkerAgain, time will tell on that,
but you know you're getting aveteran guy as opposed to a
young guy behind them and thatcan help tremendously.
Again, the example that comesto mind where it really worked

(45:41):
out for us is Arden Key, and wehad a pretty good all around
rotation as a result of gettinga veteran there, as opposed to
trying to rely on some kid thatis an undrafted free agent or a
late round pick.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
Yeah, adding that depth, like you said right after
the draft love it andaddressing a need, uh, that they
literally just talked about thetransparency between this
regime and the previous one isis insane like it's.
It's crazy to think thatliterally just three months ago
we were in hell.
And look at us today we gottravis hunter on our roster and
they're making moves that youknow, know the day after the NFL

(46:19):
draft.
And so crazy, crazy work, man.
What about the other fourthround pick here where they went
linebacker, they addresslinebacker and back to back
picks, albeit fourth round andsixth round, but yeah, notre
Dame linebacker, jack Kaiser.
What do you think about thatselection?
What have you seen so far?

Speaker 2 (46:36):
Yeah, man, jack is a guy.
Um, I noticed that theathleticism is lacking.
That's okay.
We're talking about fourthround picks here, right, like I
didn't expect to go out thereand see freaking ray lewis or
nothing like that, you know.
But, um, the athleticism wasn'tthere necessarily.
But what I do like about him andwe've talked about this in the

(46:57):
podcast and I can see why JamesGladstone went this direction
too now that I'm like thinkingabout it, phil, it's one thing I
noticed as a downhill runnerand a downhill linebacker.
Uh, it's kind of where heflourished.
It was a lot of times where, um, he was pretty good at taking
on blocks or avoiding them.
When it comes to downhillsituations and getting to the

(47:18):
backfield or the running back,avoiding blocks, shedding blocks
or whatever the case may be,getting skinny and making a play
on the ball carrier If it's arunning back quarterback, the
reason that's important becausePhil is and you heard me mention
this in the thread and onTwitter is times where we'll
flat out see Devin Lloyd like,avoid contact in those

(47:42):
situations, right, and a playwill end up going for more
yardage than it should.
So here you have a guy inKaiser.
I guess what I'm saying is alittle bit opposite than him in
downhill situations.
So, that being said, I canunderstand that pick, and then I
can also understand it from thestandpoint of this too, phil
and I only seen one film, onepiece of film on him, and it was

(48:05):
also, coincidentally, it wasagainst Navy as well.
But he, you know you look atthe intangibles right, and this
is going to be a recurring themeright On this podcast, because
that's what you know JamesGladstone is into, but
intangibly rich, that he isRight.
And Mia even said that she puthim in one hour mock drafts
because of that or one of hermock drafts I think it was her

(48:28):
first mock draft on 1010XL.
She's like, yeah, this kid isexactly that.
And you know, while we're atthat subject, phil, I want to
talk about that too.
This whole mantra, you know,and I've even saw I forgot who
it was.
Somebody said they were kind oftired about hearing the phrase
already intangibly rich and this, that and the other.
I want to talk about that withyou real quick, phil.

(48:49):
I don't mind how many timeswe've heard this, and the reason
I don't mind it is because,essentially, what they're saying
, they're asking for each player, is for the player, and he said
this many, many times Gladstonehas.
They're asking for each playerto come in and be themselves.
But also, too, I think whatpeople are missing is when you
have a group of 53 players whoare all being themselves, they

(49:14):
all excel, you know, atsomething.
You know, not in all cases, butin a lot of cases, this guy
might excel at somethingdifferent than the next guy.
This guy might excel atsomething different than the
next guy.
So when they're all coming inand being themselves, they're
essentially making a completeteam.
You know, and I think thatthat's huge, but I think it's

(49:35):
also huge that we keep hearingthis about that and being
intangibly rich, because I justthat that's huge, but I think
it's also huge that we keephearing this about that and
being intangibly rich, because Ijust love that.
There's communication,transparency and, first and
foremost and the most importantthing, phil, an identity.
Finally, an identity.
We went through three years withDoug Peterson, where we
couldn't get in Brent Martineaumentioned this too Peterson

(49:59):
where we couldn't get, and BrentMartineau mentioned this too we
couldn't get Doug to say whatour identity was because we
didn't have one, first andforemost, for three years.
We couldn't get that out ofTrent for three years and that's
a long time to go withoutlooking at an organization and
saying what is that organization, what do they do, what's their
identity?
So for me, to hear what JamesGladstone has said these what

(50:19):
last three months, andrepeatedly say it, I don't mind
it at all, because we wentthrough four years three well,
yeah, four years when youinclude Balki and Urban four
years of not having an identity,not having a clue what we were.
And now to hear it so muchthroughout these three months is
kind of refreshing to me.
And you know, maybe down theroad it'll wear on me and it'll

(50:42):
annoy me to hear it, you know,and especially when things
aren't going good.
But right now I love it fromthat perspective because we
didn't know what we were forfour years.
Now we do.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Yeah, I agree.
If you look back at the last,you know, at the Doug Peterson
era, and you try to identifywhat that team, what the
identity of that team was, Idon't really know what that
answer is, other than TrevorLawrence trying to do whatever
he possibly could on one side ofthe ball and Josh Heinz Allen

(51:14):
trying to do the same, andTrayvon Walker we'll throw him
in there as well, because it wasalways what took up all the
headlines was who's calling theplays?
Who's calling the plays?
When are we going to get thisdefensive coordinator out here,
when you know we're?
We're excited about the newdefensive coordinator?
Oh no, he's bad too.
Uh, you know what the hellhappened with Andre Sisko and

(51:36):
Devin Lloyd and all these guysdefensively specifically, like
we were trending upward rightand then fell off a cliff.
Like that's what the identityof the team was, was you know
2022 was.
We were trending upward.
We have that incredible run andyou go into the season, you're
in contention for the number oneseed and Trevor goes down and

(51:57):
it all falls apart.
You know the really good teamscan weather that storm and Doug
Peterson could not and TrentBulkey could not.
So that was what the identityof this team is.
So I don't want to hear it.
Who's the?
Who is the poster child ofintangibly rich Travis Hunter?
That's why Travis Hunter ishere in Jacksonville.
Did you see him, with his goofysmile, putting on that helmet?

(52:20):
That wasn't meant for him, bythe way, that was just a prop
helmet did you see him howexcited he was to come to
Jacksonville?
Of all places and you know themedia is not happy about this
they are not happy that he is inJacksonville, just like they
weren't happy that TrevorLawrence ended up in
Jacksonville.
So that's why they want MasonGraham to come to Jacksonville,
because you don't have to talkabout Mason Graham, but now you

(52:42):
got to talk about Travis Hunterand you have to talk about
Trevor Lawrence and a new headcoach in this new regime, and
they're not happy about it.
So that's what I have to sayabout it yeah, yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Yeah, the phrase you said about travis hunter being
the poster child for intangiblyrich, yeah, that's it right
there, right, that's so on onbrand, but yeah, I mean, I love
having an identity, like youknow.
I mean you I kind of mentionedthis to boogie in the thread,
right, right Of, like you know,boogie was like I don't get what
the hype is around, like peoplelike Jalen Walker, and I was

(53:22):
like I'll tell you what the hypeis around.
Jalen Walker, if you look atthe Rams roster, they're made up
of a bunch of intangibly richJalen Walker, like people you
know, and like that's theiridentity.
That's what the fascination iswith him, is not just this.

(53:44):
All the time, the intangibles gooutside of their performance on
the field, but how do theythink in pressure situations and
what have you?
It's other things that go intothat.
That being said, man, yeah, man, I don't mind.
Like they can say it as manytimes as they want, man, I don't
mind it because I finally knowwhat this team is and even if

(54:05):
we're not that, I know wherethey're trying to get to in
terms of which would be wherethe Rams are.
Essentially, I know wherethey're trying to get to, even
if they don't get there thisyear, I know the identity that
they want to have, even if theydon't get there this year.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
I know the identity that they want to have, right,
yeah, I agree.
And to bring it back to JackKaiser, yeah, in terms of what
I've seen, just a very little, Ido see that.
You know that concern when itcomes to the athleticism.
But also just see a guy Italked about this in our mock,
the only mock that we did hereon the podcast, bringing in guys
from winning cultures and NotreDame is certainly that Colorado

(54:42):
, varying levels of success, butTravis Hunter still a winner.
Um, and you guys, you know,talking about West Virginia,
virginia Tech, big name schools,you know.
And also, again, we don't haveuh too much to uh in terms of a
report yet from a guy they tookin the sixth round, rayon Lane.
You know, a Navy kid coming toa Navy town.
I think there's something to besaid about that.
The other linebacker they tookAuburn, usc, syracuse, you know,

(55:05):
and while these schools haven'tnecessarily outside of, like
Notre Dame, they're notnecessarily competing for
championships, these are stillbig-time historical universities
when it comes to football.
So I think there's something,uh, that is uh, there's
definitely something to be saidabout that.
To lane, obviously a bit of anoutlier.
But, like you said, if calebbransaw is playing for uh, you
know, if he goes to floridastate, you know he's we're

(55:28):
probably having a differentconversation about him.
But to round out the draft here,jay, I know you haven't gotten
to the sixth and seventh roundguys uh, jaylen mcleod from
Auburn A lot of people seem tobe surprised he was still
available in round six.
Rayon Lane, like I just talkedabout.
Safety from Navy, seems like hemight be a really solid special
teams guy.
Jonah Monheim from USC he is acenter.

(55:50):
And then LaQuint Allen runningback out of Syracuse.
I know you haven't gotten achance to really do any kind of
deep dive into these guys, butdo you have anything you want to
add on as we get to, uh, youknow, towards the end of this
episode?

Speaker 2 (56:00):
yeah, I'm real curious about um jonah because,
as everybody know, I'm not aluke fortner guy and, uh, the
sooner we can pack him up thebetter, um, even though, look,
um liam cohen does have ties tohim.
He coached luke fortner incollege, so you know they might
think more highly of him than wedo, but, yeah him, I want to
definitely watch some of ummcleod for the simple fact that,

(56:24):
um, you know, auburn is one ofour um biggest rivals, and when
I say our, I mean the georgiabulldogs, the south's oldest
rivalry, and uh, yeah, he was aguy that I didn't get to like
study, because you know thatthat rivalry at for the time
being and this is no disrespectto Auburn it's not like what it
used to be right Down to thewire type rivalry where it goes
down to like literally the lastsnap.

(56:45):
So I want to check him outbecause, yeah, I mean we do need
some help on that edge, youknow, I mean, I know they got
Ogba, obviously, we just talkedabout that, but still, you
always want to have that youngpass rusher in the waiting right
, phil, every roster needs it,because it's going to come a
time where you might have tolean on him?

(57:08):
Josh Allen might we saw lastyear, was it last year?
Josh Hines Allen dealt with someconcussions right, had to exit
the game and the pass rush justlooked just terrible when he was
gone.
I mean, the only person we hadthat could really generate pass
rush was Trayvon, so he'll be aninteresting one to watch.
And the Navy kid is Lane right.

(57:31):
His last name, phil, you said.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
Yes, it is Rayon Lane .

Speaker 2 (57:35):
Yeah, I want to check him out too as well, because,
again, you know just kind ofgoing back to what I was saying
about Caleb Ransaw is you know,the secondary was despicable to
look at, man, and I want as manyof these kids, including the

(58:01):
undrafted guys, I want to see asmany of these guys competing
for roster spots, because youknow what Trent Baalke built,
isn't it in that secondary, youknow?
So I'll be watching these kidsover the next probably day or so
.
Like I said, I got the TravisHunter scouting report that I'm
working on right now, which isessentially done.
I might post that tonight, thenI can move on to some of these
late round kids and see whatthey're working with.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
Yeah, and then the Jaguars did add 20 undrafted
free agents here.
I know, jay, you kind of took alook at the list.
Nobody really stood out, notseeing any names that we were
discussing in terms of the draftprocess here.
I won't name all of these, butthere are a few receivers on
here.
I see a quarterback, somedefensive linemen, offensive

(58:40):
linemen as well.
So if you want to check outthose names, head on over to
social media and you can checkthat out.
But overall, really reallyexciting and optimistic draft.
Of course, all that starts withthe trade in the beginning with
Travis Hunter.
I believe the response from themainstream media has been
pretty solid as well.

(59:00):
In terms of draft grades.
We won't really know what thegrade for this draft is going to
be until two or three yearsdown the road, but NFLcom, a-usa
Today B+, new York Post, espn,cbs Sports all with a B, pff, a
B+.
So all really really positivefeedback when it comes to their
moves and it seems like peopleare optimistic about what the

(59:25):
future looks like when it comesto these draft picks.
But, jay, we'll wrap up here injust a moment.
I do just want to talk to youabout this Shador Sanders thing,
because it was the story of theweekend.
Now, first off, what I'll tellyou guys for some of you that
may not be on social media asmuch, which good for you.
That is a solid, solid, healthychoice.
But first off, if you weren'tfollowing this, shador Sanders

(59:48):
got prank called on the night ofthe draft.
I believe it was in on day twoNow.
Shador Sanders had a cell phoneonly for NFL front offices, so
when he got drafted they wouldcall that number.
He got a phone call fromsomebody who claimed to be, I
believe, the GM for the Giants.

(01:00:09):
I'm not 100% sure, but a videocame out of that prank call and
it was from a student at theUniversity of Ole Miss prank
call and it was from a studentat the university of, so from
old miss.
And in that video, jacksulbrich, who is the son of
falcons defensive coordinator,jeff ulbrich, is in the video
and he has come out andapologized.
It turns out he is the one wholeaked that phone number and

(01:00:33):
that's how they were able tomake that phone call.
And that was was making roundsand he made a you know, a BS
apology on social media.
The Falcons have now released astatement as well, and the
whole Shador thing already wasjust very strange and kind of
fishy to watch.
You know, when it comes tosports I tend to stray away from

(01:00:55):
conspiracy theories, justbecause a lot of it is just is a
lot of nonsense.
It is sometimes fun if it'sharmless to look into, but this
whole Shador thing, jay, kind ofrubbed me the wrong way and I
want you to talk about a littlebit.
You know what you said and whenwe were talking with our buddy
Josh about why this may havehappened, because to me me as

(01:01:17):
somebody who did not watch a lotof Colorado football, all I can
really do is, during this draftprocess, I hear that he is a
kid that is very accurate butdoes not have the strongest arm
but is a.
He's won wherever he has gone,despite the lack of a running
game, despite the lack of anoffensive line, um, but at the

(01:01:38):
end of the day he is DeionSanders' son.
So what happened here, do youthink in your mind?
I also hear that you know he'snot working out for certain
teams.
He didn't work out of thesenior bowl, the shrine, and you
know the shrine, uh bowl.
He didn't work out of thecombine.
You know all of this stuff I'mjust collecting and sitting back
and wondering what the hellhappened.

(01:01:58):
So what do you think happenedand do you have any comments
about you know this?
This BS prank phone call he gotas well, because that's just
nasty work.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
Yeah, so, and yeah, we're still getting the facts on
this because they're coming in.
But yeah, I pulled up SportingNews here, a tweet from them,
very reputable company.
Right, it was not just yourdoor, Tyler Warren, Tyler Warren
yeah.
Yeah, got a call Kyle McCord,who we mocked Kyle McCord to.

(01:02:29):
He's from Syracuse, thequarterback, and a gentleman
named Chase Lunt.
I'm not familiar with him, butanother prospect and some
anonymous, undrafted free agentstoo as well.
It says here.
So yeah, man, like a whole listof kids were getting these
calls, just you know, becausesome kid from again and I got to

(01:02:50):
see the details on it and readup on it Some kid got a whole
piece of electronic that heshouldn't have his hand on.
I guess they said that he mayhave gotten it off his dad's
iPad or iPad or something likethat, these numbers.
So again I got to look at thefacts and see how he got it.
But yeah, this kid just doingtoo much Right and just ruining

(01:03:12):
what is supposed to be a greatmoment in these individuals.
Life should do his life Right.
You know what I'm saying.
And Tyler Warren's life, whoTyler was going to go with like
top 10, we thought you know whatI'm saying, just ruining these
moments for these people whoworked so hard for so many, many
years to get there Right.
So, like I mean, I get it.

(01:03:34):
I don't know how old this kidis.
Some people might be like, oh,it's a young kid, but still, man
.
Like, coming from a footballfamily, as this kid has, you
should understand the value inthese moments for these
individuals and this is notsomething to make fun of or put
them on high alert for.

(01:03:54):
Whatever the case may be, youknow what I'm saying.
Coming from a football family,you should have the decency and
the knowledge to know that thatwasn't cool, right?
So there's that.
I think I got a message herejust saying that the coach won't
receive any disciplinary actionfor from Adam Schefter.
I I have to pull out that tweet.

(01:04:15):
You know how the alert justpops up on the front screen of
your phone so I can like touchit in time to see.
But it looks like he won't getdisciplined for it.
But NFL will like re-evaluatetheir protocols for how they
acquire these numbers for theseplayers and what happened.

(01:04:35):
But yeah, in terms of the ShadorSanders situation, yeah, like
we talked about it in the threadand, um, you know one thing I
will say like.
So I started the conversationoff in the thread by saying this
I think that part of it was youknow, I can remember two years
ago, right, phil Deion Sandersshowing up on different podcasts

(01:04:55):
I can't remember what podcastthey might have been on Barstool
or whatever the case may be.
You know, just saying like hey,like we might have to pull an
Eli and if this team wants todraft him, you know we might
have to do this or whatever thecase may be.
And also, too, something thatalso stood out to me was Deion.
Two years ago, when people werelike Shador should enter the

(01:05:16):
draft, he'll be a top 10 pick.
You know, deion kind of wasanswering that for him and
Shiloh Shiloh is the kid thatplays safety, that's Deion's
other son and Deion would answerit like for them, like no, you
guys aren't going to the draftyet.
Like you're staying here.
And like I always like.
One thing I will say about thatis like, as grown men, let them

(01:05:36):
kind of make their own decisionand be their own voice, right,
and if Shador doesn't want toplay for a certain team, let him
be the one to do that.
And also, too, you want to dothat kind of stuff behind closed
doors.
You don't want your fatherbeing out there on a podcast,
kind of like trying to strongarm you to whatever team he
wants you to go to, like.
So I think that part of itrubbed the NFL wrong.

(01:05:59):
Now, as I said, I don't thinkthe NFL is validated by how they
did Shador at all.
And that's the next point Iwant to make as well, and I said
we literally just said this inthe last podcast with Lou
Easterly the NFL has aquarterback problem.

(01:06:19):
Part of the quarterback problemis the egos and the decision
makers that make the decisionson bringing in these players.
They have egos.
That's part of the problem.
That being said, with thequarterback problem that the NFL
has, so many teams have badquarterbacks and bad quarterback
rooms and don't have an answerat that position, to the point

(01:06:41):
where I do not understand howShador Sanders lasted past round
two.
Now, sure, I can get it, hewouldn't get drafted in round
one, I can understand that.
But after round two it startedto get a little bit ridiculous.
And you've seen my big board.
I had him 16th on my big board,right, and we're talking about
a kid, two years.
These talent evaluators can saywhat they want, right, phil, but

(01:07:04):
we're talking about a kid herewho has stepped his game up on
every level.
They went from Jackson Stateand this includes Travis too,
travis Hunter, because hefollowed them on this path.
They went from going to JacksonState and basically being
unbeatable there to going to theDivision I level and while the

(01:07:25):
success wasn't initial, theyeventually became a successful
team on the Division I level.
They have elevated themselvesShador, shiloh, travis, hunter,
coach, deion Sanders.
They have elevated their levelof play on every level that
they've been to, whether it'sDivision I or anything below
that.
And when you see a quarterbackthat is able to do that in

(01:07:47):
Shador Sanders elevate his playfrom going to Jackson State to
playing Division I prospects atColorado right that to me spoke
volumes about his field and thatalone was, you know, like that
and you know just the wholesituation.
As I said with you know Deionkind of trying to maybe

(01:08:07):
strong-arm his sons to whateverteam he wanted them to go to.
That can be thrown out of thewindow when considering how bad
these teams are at thequarterback position.
That's stuff that if I'm a GMI'm overlooking.
I don't care what Deion saidtwo years ago.
I don't care if he tried tostrong arm his son to a certain
team.
Now, the competitive side of it, not competing in the senior

(01:08:29):
bowl and things of that naturethat's worth knocking him for,
because what you want to see isa quarterback that is
competitive in terms of wantingto face every level of high
competition that he can, butstill that doesn't excuse him
not going, at the very least, atthe second round.

(01:08:50):
Maybe that can knock him out ofthe first round, but not the
second round.
The very least at the secondround, maybe that can knock him
out of the first round, but notthe second round.
So, that being said, man like Ithink this kid is somebody who's
going to come into the leaguemotivated and also to feel I
think this kid and I hope hedoes this because, as I said,
the NFL is an ego driven leaguethat has a quarterback problem
that can't fix it, and a lot ofit is they're getting on in

(01:09:12):
their own way.
I hope this kid proves a lot ofGMs wrong and I hope this kid
puts these GMs in a predicamentwhere their owners are saying
like well, he was there for usto take in round one, round two,
you didn't take him, and nowhe's on the other side of the
field literally kicking outbehind.
Take him in now he's on theother side of the field
literally kicking out behind,and I wouldn't doubt that he has

(01:09:35):
.
He's a Sanders kid.
I don't doubt that he has theability to do that one day.
I think the talent is there.
As you said, the arm strength,you know, not the greatest, but
we've seen plenty ofquarterbacks get away with not
having good arm strength KirkCousins, so on and so forth.
I think they've inserted abattery into this kid's back to

(01:09:56):
the point where I think he'sgoing to make some people pay,
and when I say pay, notnecessarily us we didn't need a
quarterback but the team thatdid.
He's going to make these teamspay and I am going to be eating
it up.
It's going to be box office TVfor me if he does it.
Man, I'm rooting for the kidand, um, I'm happy that he did
get drafted, you know, albeitit's not as high as it should

(01:10:16):
have been.
But I do think like he's in asituation, too, where Joe Flacco
isn't going to be there thatlong.
I think Joe Flacco they signedJoe Flacco right, phil.
It's going to be there thatlong and he knows that, and he's
going to dedicate his time andefforts into unseating Joe
Flacco.
And in a few years, I thinkthis kid is going to dedicate
his time and efforts intounseating Joe Flacco, and in a
few years I think this kid isgoing to be something special

(01:10:37):
and, by the way, he went to avery good offensive line.
I do like that part of it.
Kevin Stefanski is going toreally help this kid get where
he needs to get, and people aregoing to have to pay for it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
Yeah, where you lose me in terms of like some of
these teams if they try toexplain this away, is when you
know the Browns themselves takeDylan Gabriel before Shador
Sanders or Tyler Shuck.
I don't care that Tyler Shuckhad this rise during the draft.
The film speaks for itself.
You're not going to convince methat the Saints are OK with

(01:11:11):
going into their season withTyler Shuck, spencer Rattler and
Derek Carr.
You're just not going toconvince me of that In a
division that is winnable.
When you talk about the NFCSouth and putting Shador like a
lot of comparisons with ShadorSanders and I don't think he's
going to be this good, but a lotof comparisons were with Drew
Brees, like not the strongestarm but got to play in a dome

(01:11:32):
four games out of the year, youknow when you talk about Atlanta
and New Orleans and that workedout for him really, really well
, so I will also be rooting forShador.
The whole Deion stuff likepeople wondering is would you
bring in Shador?
And then, all of a sudden, deionis also, you know, speaking on
your franchise while notactually being there.

(01:11:53):
Well, if that's the case, thenthat's your problem, that's your
fault that your front officeand your coaching staff isn't
strong-willed enough to keepthat away from their locker room
, to keep that away from theirteam.
So you think that Mike Tomlinwas going to allow Deion
Sanders' talk to overtake hislocker room?
You think Cameron Hayward or TJWatt or those guys were going

(01:12:13):
to allow Deion whatever DeionSanders talk to overtake his
locker room?
You think Cameron Hayward or TJWatt or those guys were going
to allow Deion whatever DeionSanders was saying to affect
them?
No, so the Steelers,specifically, I think definitely
should have taken him andinstead you're waiting around
for what Aaron Rodgers andyou're going to throw Mason
Rudolph out there week one, giveme a break.
So yeah, we just had to discussthat because obviously it was

(01:12:34):
the biggest story of the weekend.
You know.
Also hearing that the leaguewas sending the Sanders family a
message like all that just isnonsense to me.
I don't like it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
Yeah, I feel like man .
You look at those quarterbacksthat went before Shador man.
And again, I had.
I had a man as a first roundgraded pick.
I had him 16th on my big board.
You know, the only quarterbackI had above him was Cam Ward.
That's the only one Iunderstood right I mean
rightfully.
So.
You know, I just said Cam Ward,albeit with the tights, I think
he's going to be a goodquarterback one day, not

(01:13:07):
necessarily off the rip, but oneday.
But all of these quarterbacks,like you said, tyler Shook, like
all of these guys going aheadof him, like it was really a
slap in the face.
It was getting ridiculous right, and it was getting to a point
where you know it kind of.
You know, if we didn't have ourconnection to the Jaguars, it
was kind of hard to watch thedraft at that point.

(01:13:28):
Obviously, you know we want toknow who we're getting and we
kind of want to monitor ourdivision rivals and stuff.
But, like you know what I'msaying, if I was a casual fan,
seeing that would have made meturn off the draft personally,
just how they, how they did thekid man and all of these
quarterbacks that went over him.
But that being said, man, I dothink he's in a situation where

(01:13:52):
he, you know, eventually he canfind his way on the field.
I hope the Browns do right byhim.
That's another thing you haveto watch out for.
I hope the Browns do right byhim, because they do have a
loaded quarterback room.
But, you know, I do like theaspect of him getting to learn
from a Kevin Stefanski who whata year ago was the coach of the

(01:14:14):
year right, Phil, if I'm notmistaken.
So there's that, and it's asituation worth monitoring ahead
and forward for sure, man.

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
Yeah, he will certainly have the opportunity
to compete for that starting job.
He's definitely better thanDylan Gabriel.
I mean, granted, I didn't watchreally any Dylan Gabriel film,
but I have a lot of confidencein saying that because you and
plenty of other people had afirst-round grade on Shador
Sanders that he could be better,and should be better, than Joe
Flacco and Dylan Gabriel.

(01:14:44):
So, and then, of course, youknow the other quarterbacks they
have in that room in Cleveland.
But, Jay, this was anothergreat episode.
We are excited about what comesnext and we'll wait to see when
the rookies report and keeptrack of that.
And with James Gladstone inthis front office, who knows
what's going to happen next?
I mean, they're out heresigning Emmanuel Ogba a day

(01:15:07):
after the draft man.
They are certainly not contentto just sit still and let things
happen, but we will certainlykeep an eye on that.
Anything else you want tomention to our audience before
we wrap up and start focusing onthe next one?

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
No, man, just an exciting time to be a Jags fan,
man.
I'm glad that again, like meand you said, we were at a point
where we didn't know if we'd berecording this show.
Now it's a joy to record again,right, until they started
losing.
But yeah, man, like this newregime is definitely inserted a
battery into the back of thispodcast, man, and I can't wait

(01:15:45):
to see where these kids go, man,because you look at it, I mean
like, from a name standpoint,it's not like this, like flashy
draft, aside from the TravisHunter pick, obviously, but
everything else isn't like superflashy, but yet we're talking
about how excited we are to seethese kids and how they'll be
incorporated into the roster,man.
So, yeah, like you said, man,rookie camp, I can't wait.

(01:16:08):
Again, a lot of these are namesthat we didn't even study
initially, right, and I'm stillexcited.
And a lot of these are namesthat we didn't even study
initially, right, and I'm stillexcited.
That speaks volumes about whatthe Jaguars have done here and
James Gladstone have done.
So be on the lookout for that.
Like I said, the scout reportis on the way.
Travis Hunter should get thatout today and, yeah, we got much
, much more on the horizon.

(01:16:28):
Man Can't wait.
Man Guess all of that, you nameit.
But yeah, man, another greatepisode and, uh, yeah, I hope to
have many, many more on thisclass yeah, so make sure you
keep up with the show.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
click the link tree link in the show notes of this
and every single episode.
You'll find the websitetouchdown jaguarscom.
You'll find where you canlocate all of our social media
pages, both personal and thesocial media for the podcast.
And, of course, make sure youhead on over to Apple Podcasts,
spotify.
Leave us five-star reviews.
That is so helpful andbeneficial to the show.

(01:17:01):
We appreciate everybody thathas done so so far already.
But, folks, that is my co-host,james Johnson, and I am Phil
Smith and don't forget to tunein to Touchdown Jaguars for each
and every Jaguar touchdown, anddon't forget to tune in to
Touchdown Jaguars for each andevery Jaguar Touchdown, and we
will see you next time.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 114: An "Intangibly Rich" Draft

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

All Episodes

Episode 114: An "Intangibly Rich" Draft

Stuff You Should Know