Episode 118: Saints / Jaguars Preseason Week 2 Analysis

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James Gladstone is reshaping the Jacksonville Jaguars with a bold mentality that fans haven't seen before in Jacksonville. The latest evidence? Trading center Luke Fortner for New Orleans Saints defensive tackle Khalen Saunders - bolstering the team's biggest roster weakness without surrendering draft capital.

This proactive approach marks a refreshing change from previous regimes that seemed content to enter the regular season with glaring weaknesses. Whether acquiring Travis Hunter with multiple first-round picks or making strategic trades, Gladstone is sending a clear message that contention drives many of his decisions.

Meanwhile, Trevor Lawrence looks increasingly comfortable in Liam Coen's offense, which features a heavy dose of the run game alongside quick reads in the passing game. After the first-team offense bounced back impressively from an early fumble against the Saints, there's growing optimism that Lawrence may have "all the answers" within this scheme. This was one of the many topics "Touchdown Jaguars!" host James Johnson discussed with special guest and former Jags Wire co-host Jacob DeLawrence.

The rookie running back duo of Bhayshul Tuten and LeQuint Allen continues to impress, potentially giving Jacksonville the deepest backfield in the AFC South. This remarkable depth provides valuable insurance during the grueling 17-game season and possibly offers a succession plan when Travis Etienne's contract expires.

As the preseason winds down, the Jaguars appear to have established a clearer identity than in previous years, though questions remain about the defense's readiness despite visible improvement from their first preseason game. With a division that appears winnable, the pieces may finally be falling into place for a legitimate playoff push. James and Jacob discussed all of this and more (like Ryan Clark's recent take on Hunter) in episode 117.

Want more Jaguars content? Visit touchdownjaguars.com and follow us on Twitter @TD_JaguarsPod for complete coverage throughout the season. 

Also, follow Jacob's work at Andscape.com, including his recent interview with AEW's Swerve Strickland.

Touchdown Jaguars Linktree

James Johnson and Phil Barrera bring you the best and most up to date Jacksonville Jaguars news. "Touchdown Jaguars!" is a tribute to the prospective ownership group "Touchdown Jacksonville!" In 1991, the NFL announced plans to add two expansion teams and "Touchdown Jacksonville!" announced its bid for a team, and Jacksonville was ultimately chosen as one of five finalists. In November 1993, the NFL owners voted 26–2 in favor of awarding the 30th franchise to Jacksonville. James and Phil have been fans of the franchise ever since and have had the honor (and sometimes dishonor) of covering the team professionally since 2017. The rest as they say, is history.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome to the New York City City of the New York
City City of the Still runningand go.
That's it and go.

(00:28):
Touchdown Jacksonville 109yards.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Incredible Play action Portals Upstairs Wide
open.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Tommy Bohannon Touchdown, jacksonville Looking
for Jimmy in the end zone.
Touchdown Jaguars.
Touchdown Jaguars.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Touchdown Jaguars.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Here are your hosts, james Johnson and Phil Smith.
All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Touchdown
Jaguars podcast.
I am your host for today, jamesJohnson, as Phil is feeling
under the weather today, so Itold him to you know, get better
and don't even worry about thisepisode.
And coincidentally, it feltlike it was maybe a call from

(01:33):
God or whatever.
I was texting back and forthwith an old friend of mine, who
you all may recognize from ourdays of doing this with Believe
and even before.
But Jacob DeLawrence, ladiesand gentlemen, will be co
-hosting with me today.
Of course, I'll let him plugall his handles and all that
good stuff.
Jacob has not been in thefootball industry for a while,

(01:56):
but it's all good.
He's been working on a lot ofwrestling content, which I'll
let him plug as well, man.
But for old time's sake, man, Iam glad to have you back.
It feels like Jaguars wire allover again, man, and I can't
wait to see where this episodegoes.
How are you doing, my brother?

Speaker 2 (02:16):
I'm back.
You know you really shouldn'tleave the back door cracked
because people like me will finda way to just seek in every so
often.
So that's right.
Have no fear, this is not 2018,2019.
No, no, you are in 2025.
We are back.
It is two-thirds of the unholyfootball apocalypse here and you

(02:40):
know, james reached out and waslike hey, dog, and I hit him up
.
I was like hey man, you know,if you ever need somebody to
come through, you know them soloepisodes be rough.
So I was like, if you needsomebody, and look at that, sure
enough, I'm here.
So, phil, relax, I'm sorry, I'mnot here to take your spot,
just fill it in.
Just a quick little drive-by.

(03:00):
Just you little drive-by.
Just you know, gotta check offthe box.
Like hey, I did some footballwork this year.
So hey, I'm good.
I appreciate you having me on,sir, as always, it is a
privilege and an honor to sithere and chop it up and talk
jags with you because, again,I've told you this before and I
will tell you this every time Isit down with you you are by far

(03:21):
one of the hardest working menin independent media.
Ain't no USA Today backing you.
Ain't no Believe.
There's no major podcastnetwork publication backing you.
You done took what we startedfrom Jags Wire to Believe to now
completely independent, andyou've turned it into a very

(03:41):
respectable news source for Jagsfans to get quality information
, unbiased, honest, calling aspade a spade.
And you have ripped your ass off, sir, and you deserve this.
So I am giving you your flowersbecause, while I may not have
been around for the last coupleyears of the ride I've been
watching, I still have a podcaston my feed.
Wasn't no unfollow?

(04:02):
Also, wasn't no falling outbetween me and him, just
schedules and life, and Ishifted one way in media, he
shifted the other, but I alwayssupport my brother.
So, sir, again, you deserveeverything.
You're a great human and I'mhappy to be in the saddle with
you for this one episode.
So let's do what we do best andpiss off Jaguar's Twitter.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Let's do it, and I appreciate it.
I really do, man, and I've saidthis many, many times man,
without you and Phil, my careerpath would be totally different.
No ifs, ands or buts, bro.
No, if I had met Phil at thattraining camp, I would have
never met you.
That would never have led to megetting into media like that

(04:43):
and pursuing media like that.
That veered us towards you.
We met you in the usa todaydays.
You held it down for me a lottoo.
Not just we.
We talk about just podcasts, wetalk about articles when your
boy went able when your boywasn't able to get content up,
you were my first go-to man.
You shout-outs to Coach NickTrist too, man, he helped me out

(05:04):
a bunch as well and Phil, man.
So again, my career path intothis independent path wouldn't
be what it is if it weren't fory'all.
So anytime we can link back upand do episodes, man, I'm always
game.
And yeah, as you said, man,there wasn't no falling out.
Man, we still brothers fromanother mother, right?

(05:26):
So it wasn't even that, it wasjust you know.
You know we get older, we moveon, we go to different endeavors
and what have you?
And that's what happened, man.
I left USA Today, but we alwaysmade it clear when we left you
at what.
Wherever we left usa today,believe we still gonna be in
contact with each other.
So we've kept to that andthat's what has produced this

(05:49):
episode is us keeping to ourwords.
So yeah, man, appreciate youcoming on.
Yeah, go ahead, man, plug someof your, your content.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Man, let everybody know what you've been working on
, man hey, well, I guess I don'treally want to plug myself like
that, but you know you can findme at anscapecom.
That is ESPN's black website.
Every month I drop a must buyfor shoes.
I just dropped August last week.
The link is in my Twitter feed.
I'm at underscore J Della.
Still ain't nothing changedthere.

(06:17):
I also sat down with former AEWworld champion and maybe soon
to be AEW unified champions.
Where is Strickland to talkabout his collab with Reebok?
The Answers 3.
That is also available onAnscapecom.
I occasionally pop through onWomen's WrestleTalk.
That is Monday, wednesdays andFridays.
On YouTube.

(06:37):
Just search Women's WrestleTalk6pm Eastern Catch a nice live
show.
So I'm here.
I'm there.
I do a little bit of everything, you know.
I just I try to keep myselfjust around enough so people
don't forget about me, and youknow, just let the work work and
speak for itself.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
Right, right, yeah, man, I love the swerve interview
, which I plugged well, it mightbe three times at this point
when you first put it out onyour birthday, and I think I
plugged it the third timesomewhere on my timeline.
So go feel free and look atthat, man.
And um, yeah, man, that was aninteresting collaboration, not
just you and swerve, but the,the collaboration with the

(07:18):
rebots, because you know me andyou be communicating about that
as well.
Like the shoes, I went andpicked up the bucks kicks as
well, so I might pick up theswerve joints as well.
I just like to collectcollaboration type stuff.
You know what?

Speaker 2 (07:30):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
So yeah, that might be on my radar as well, man, but
we're not here to talk aboutwrestling man.
We're here to talk about ourbeloved jacks, who were in a tie
game against the saints.
I guess we can't feel tooheartbroken about it because it
was preseason football Preseasonbut at the same time, man, a

(07:51):
lot of good came from it.
Some concerns as well, but Iwould say mostly more so good.
When you look at what the corepart of the preseason is, it's
about seeing what you can seeout of the starters.
So we'll talk about that alittle bit.
But before we get into the gameitself, let me plug these
handles real quick.
You can follow me at SportsGrind, underscore Dunn on

(08:13):
Twitter.
You can follow Phil at Phil theFilipino on Twitter and no, we
don't call it X and probablynever will.
You can follow the podcast atTD Jaguarswarspod touchdown.
Jadwars podcast is the websitewhere, um, we post written
content and what have you onthere?

(08:34):
You can find this podcast onany major platform.
If we're not on your favoriteplatform, let us know and we'll
get there.
But apple spotify the main ones.
You name it, we're there and um.
That being said, let's get intoday's episode.
We're kind of going tofreestyle it, which is never a
good thing when me and jacob gettogether, but we'll freestyle
it's.
Whatever man, you guys willstill love it because we always

(08:59):
make good content when we'retogether.
But let's start before the gameman, we had a trade after the
game and it just feels likeJames Gladstone was up in the
booth right Talking to MickeyLoomis and somehow they may have
had some trade discussionswhile they were watching the
game unfold.
Probably is what happened.
Right, if we had to guess.

(09:19):
And somehow or another, jamesGladstone probably said, hey,
we're looking for a DT.
Mickey Loomis was like, hey, weneed a center or a backup
center.
And we got a trade.
And now Kalen Saunders is aJacksonville Jaguar.
He will come here playdefensive tackle for us, a kid

(09:41):
that I remember from the combinebecause of his athleticism.
We all seen the viral backflipvideos him doing a backflip at
320 pounds and all thatcraziness.
So he was an athletic kid.
I remember watching him at thecombine, went to the Chiefs, got
two Super Bowl rings.
So that's significant right,bring some leadership into the

(10:02):
mix.
But yeah, we sent off what mostpeople would say was a failed
Trent Baalke pick right, jacob.
Um Luke Fortner right, who meand you have had our discussions
about Trent Baalke in spaces,right, and everybody know how I
feel about that guy but, andthey kind of know how you feel
about that guy too as well.

(10:23):
But that being said, we got atrade.
The Jaguars as I don't know ifyou heard one of our last
episodes, but me and Jamal StCyr from News 4 Jags we
discussed how, basically, whenyou look at the roster, what's
the weakness of the roster?
Defensive tackle was the numberone and that's where that's how

(10:44):
we got where we are today withthis trade.
We got somebody who could backup Devon Hamilton at the nose
tackle position, because it waslooking kind of suspect at the
nose tackle position and, yeah,we got a guy in Saunders.
Here, again, plenty ofexperience Should help us out at
the Jaguars' biggest positionto need.
Keep in mind, the Jaguars alsoare kind of down numbers there.

(11:05):
Mason Smith is trying to gethealthy and also Eric Armstead
is trying to get healthy.
They did like practice in somecapacity today, so that's good
news.
But, jacob, I'll start with you.
Man, like, what are yourthoughts on this trade?
Obviously, it's nothing major.
We didn't get like a starterper se, but like a starter per
se, but they definitely got somedepth at their weakest position

(11:25):
, I would say.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah, let's.
Let's be clear, we're makingthe trade, the second week of
preseason and the NFL seasonkicks off in 16 days from today,
as we're recording this.
So, like you're not going tomake a major blockbuster trade
unless you're the Washingtoncommanders or the Cincinnati
Bengals and you got one of yourdisgruntled people.
So, looking at this, like yousaid, it's a trade of need.

(11:48):
We need Def on the D-linebecause, like you said, mason
and Armstead have been out mostof camp.
They just out getting back topracticing.
And also the Saints needed aninsurance policy because they
lost their center to a Liz Frankinjury last year.
So you know those are a littletricky coming back.
So, hey, I need this, you needthis, I got what you need.

(12:11):
Let's just go and do this realquick.
Plus Kalon Sanders, he's in thelast year of his deals a $2.5
million cap it.
So if it doesn't work out, lethim go.
$2.5 million ain't nothingbecause nothing, because, one,
the salary cap's not real.
But two, two and a half mil,even if it was real, ain't gonna
hurt you like that.
So you're good there.

(12:31):
So, yeah, and like you said, hehas two Super Bowl rings.
You can argue well, he wasn't akey player on the defense.
It don't matter.
You sit in an environment likeKansas City and unless you are
just one of the most obtusepeople will use that word you
pick up something, you.

(12:51):
You can't help but be in aculture like that with Andy Reid
, patrick Mahomes, travis Kelsey, the Hunt family and like not
pick up some quality leadershipof like oh okay, this is what
it's like to win a divisionmultiple years in a row.
Basically, your season reallydoesn't start until the AFC

(13:12):
title game.
And then you got two SuperBowls out of it and, if I'm not
mistaken, he may have been onthe team that lost to the Bucs.
So you took three trips atleast Got two rings.
You contributed while you werethere yeah, I'll take that.
Yeah, come on.
And you only two and a half mil?
Yeah, come on.
Come on, we need someleadership in here.

(13:34):
It's a new regime inJacksonville again.
So like, let's bring in thatwinning culture.
Let's ask some depth to our oneof our weak spots.
He's also an insurance policy.
He put up relatively solidnumbers last year.
He had a calf injury, but Ithink he played in 13 games last
year.
He's only 29, so he's on theright side of 30, if you want to

(13:55):
look at it that way, he was athird-round pick, which means
you are expected to either startor contribute, and that's what
he's done in his two stops.
I don't see anything wrong withthis, unless, no, even, if he
flames out.
Okay, like you said, we moved acenter.
That was basically a failedball key pick, so at worst it's

(14:18):
a wash.
At best, hey, we got a soliddefensive lineman and we got
somebody with culture that knowshow to win.
I like it.
It's a smart move.
It is a very smart move for theJags.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
Yeah, some things I want to touch on.
Man First and foremost.
What a difference a year makes,right, because this is the
thing about where we would havebeen last year if Trent Baalke
was here After camp and duringcamp and all of that good stuff.
During the preseason, baalkewasn't trying to add no

(14:50):
additions to the team, even whenyou knew your weaknesses and
even when it was clear additionsneed to be made.
So, that being said, I want togive and look man.
It's his first year.
We'll see how it works out withJames Gladstone, but I just
love this new found ability tounderstand your weaknesses and

(15:11):
do something about it and notjust wait until the regular
season and just say, hey, whatwe have is what we have, and
let's just try.
To everybody out there likeTrent Baalke would.
I love the fact that Gladstoneyou know he did it in a creative
way Traded a failed balky pick.
We didn't have to give up apick for it, by the way, you
know, even though JamesGladstone is the king of F them
picks, right, and you know hecomes from that Rams culture of

(15:34):
F them picks type of thing, buthe found a creative way to get
it done.
Hey, we don't even give up apick.
We'll give you a center whowe're probably going to cut in
two weeks, right when thepreseason is over, because and
we'll talk about this JonahMonheim, the sixth round pick
that we got that James Gladstonegot this year, is playing quite

(15:55):
well for a sixth round pick,rookie right at center and guard
.
He's been playing both andthat's probably what led them to
this.
It's like we got our center ofthe future in this sixth round
pick, which is hard to to do.
You can hit on some positionsin the sixth round, but
offensive guard or center oralarming is pretty hard to do.
So we'll see, time will tell.

(16:15):
It's just two games into thiskid's career, two preseason
games, but he's looked reallygood.
But that was one thing I wantedto touch on and I think it's
telling also too, because Ithink it's a sign of how they
felt about the backups behindDevon Hamilton at nose tackle.
I don't think they're overlyimpressed with Jefferson.

(16:35):
Another Trent Baalke pick Right, and it was some undrafted kids
behind Jefferson.
So like I don't think they likewhat they saw from that
standpoint.
But all of that said, as yousaid, he's coming from a winning
culture, andy Reed.
So there's that, but real quick, I do want to ask this because
we haven't really gotten toreally discuss this with you in

(16:58):
an outsider's perspective.
Jacob, while we're speaking onGladstone, what's your thoughts
on him?
Because I know in the spacesyou talked about Liam Cohen,
right, and your thoughts on him,but at that time Gladstone
hadn't been hired.
What's your thoughts on him?
And the Jaguars going thisyoung route with a 35 year, this

(17:18):
dude like the GM, like it's ourage, bro, like which is young
for a GM.
What do you think that's crazy,right, it's crazy to think me
and you could be in a GM chairone day, bro.
What do you think of hisaddition, and you know what he
brings to the table and theculture that he comes from, and

(17:39):
just your thoughts about him ingeneral.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah, he's 35, 36.
And I'm just like you know, ifI'd have went left a couple
times in my life, maybe I'd bethere too, but no, but, um, yeah
, I gave my thoughts to liam inthe whole, not hiring for one
person, hire for the whole 54,not one.
But as far as glass stone goes,so far, so good.

(18:04):
And let's be clear, I'm notgoing to say that the bar was in
hell inheriting it from trentbalky.
But you were definitely sittingin purgatory because, while to
give balky his credit, balky wasgreat at finding something in
the fourth round, the fifthround, the sixth round, round,

(18:24):
the sixth round.
Maybe get a seventh round inhere.
Might pick up an undrafted freeagent every now and then.
He was great in the laterrounds.
The problem is you missed earlyand often.
Gladstone only has one draftunder his belt.
But I'll tell you this much Idon't think the old regime would
have had the nerve to swing.
Hey, you know what?

(18:45):
Take our first this year andour first next year.
Give me the unicorn, give meTravis Hunter, and let me figure
this out.
Give me Travis Hunter Becausethat's a ballsy pick, like that
is saying that you know what manBump that first-round pick.
It's going to be in the teensor the low 20s, because we
actually going to win thedivision, we going to be good.

(19:10):
And yeah, that's where he camefrom.
He came from the Rams.
The Rams are the masters of,like you said, man, f-bill picks
.
Literally, we'll deal withtomorrow, when tomorrow gets
here.
That's a tomorrow problem.
Right now I am trying to win.
We are close to winning now.
So of course, that's what heknows.
It's a gunslinger, it's agambler mentality.
We'll see how it pans out intwo, three years, after he gets
a couple more drafts under hisbelt.
Maybe he can, maybe will anddeal and go make a big trade at

(19:33):
some point.
But I like what he's doing sofar.
It's smart.
You're looking at your roster.
This is a smart trade, like Isaid, and it shows that he's
willing to do what's necessary,because what he's doing and I'm
sure Liam Cohen has a hand inthis too but what they're doing
now is A-Dot 16, ain't no moreexcuses.

(19:56):
All y'all.
Ain't no more excuses.
The other, josh Allen, allenHines, I'm sorry, ain't no more
excuses.
Right, we giving y'all anythingy'all can ask for.
We plugging in, we coveringholes.
We'll figure out what we goingto do with this unicorn.
But like you got BTJ, you gottank, you got ETN.

(20:18):
For now, like we, we sureenough the old line we got a six
rounder.
Like you said also, the man isplaying two positions in the NFL
.
Like we want to talk aboutTravis playing offense and
defense.
Yeah, that's nice and that'sfascinating and we'll get into
that.
But to be able to play alongthat O-line, I don't think

(20:38):
people understand how difficultof a thing that is.
So that Gladstone was able tofind a kid that could play
center and also slide the guardif you need to, or vice versa.
And from what we've seen, he'sholding up pretty well.
You can argue his preseason,yeah, yeah, that's great.
Guess what?
Some people look like complete,absolute crap in preseason two

(21:00):
and they live on practice squad.
So like we'll take this as like, oh, we're not saying he's
gonna start or contribute, buthe, there's something there.
So so far I'm I'm impressedwith glass stone.
It's it's a night and daydifference on what was there
before.
We'll see how these, we'll seehow this pans out, because at
some point you gotta hit andonly time will tell if he hits

(21:25):
on some of these moves anddecisions and also you gotta win
as a team.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
So we'll see yeah, yeah, and I don't want to veer
too far from the game, but whilewe have you, man like this is
what always happened, man weveer away from the actual what
we need to get on to.
But since you mentioned some ofthis stuff, right, yeah, with
jonah monheim, right, um, right,like not, this is not them
necessarily saying he's thestarter now, but, you know, prop

(21:50):
, maybe in a year or two.
Now, something that youmentioned I want to talk with
you about was the Travis trade.
Of course, to you know, give upwhat we gave up and what have
you, and you're absolutely right, that's.
That's a night and daydifference from Trent Baalke
Anytime.
Somebody said to Trent Baalkethe cost is a first round pick.
He's hanging up on you, pointblank, period.

(22:12):
He's hanging up Anytime.
That that's all it take toscare Trent away.
Hey, yeah, you want to make atrade, first round pick, trent
hanging up on you instantly.
Never would have done that.
He never would have done that.
And what I like about thatdecision to trade up for Travis
too is you know, know, basically, how they came to that

(22:33):
agreement or to that.
That situation was while theywere sitting at five.
Basically the big three, whichwould be Tony Bocelli, the EVP,
james Gladstone and Cohen.
They it sounds like they reallycouldn't.
It sounds like they reallycouldn't decide on one person

(22:56):
that they could all collectivelyvote on to take at number five,
right.
So they were like you know what, let's move up.
I tell you what, let's give upa first round pick.
Let's get the best player inthe draft.
We can all agree that that'sthe right decision to make,
right, which we'll see and timewill tell.
We'll talk about Travis alittle bit later, but we'll see
if that move pans out.
But I just like that mindset,man.

(23:16):
We would have never.
If Trent was here, we wouldn'tbe thinking about trading up to
get Travis Hunter.
It wouldn't even be a thoughtprocess at all.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Here's the biggest difference.
And again, not to dance on thegrave of Trent Baalke, but this
was the biggest difference.
And again not to dance on thegrave of Trent Balky.
But this was during the Jags'podcast days.
Taven Bryan you took him in thesame draft that Lamar Jackson
went eight picks later, if I'mnot mistaken.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
That was TC, though.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, but still.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
That's a part of our history, right.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
You get the point that's a part of our history,
right.
You get the point that, like,even that feels like a bulky
thing by the fact that I wouldattribute it to bulky.
But that's the point I'm making.
Is you have these moments whereyou right there, like you said,
first round, nah click.
Second round, click Third.
I'll listen, then click, butlike, none of this would have

(24:13):
happened to any prior regime.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Yeah, I agree, and it brings excitement to the table.
When you got a GM that don'tcare about picks.
You know what I'm saying.
And look, I believe in buildingthrough the draft.
I believe you believe inbuilding through the draft, but
when you're as close as we are,right, you already paid your
quarterback what you paid him.
You already paid Josh HinesAllen what you paid him.
That's an indication thatyou're knocking on the door,

(24:37):
that you're close.
And, that being said, this newregime has taken that approach
of like, hey, we like what'shere, we just want to add on to
it and we'll see where it goes.
But it was always just.
I just wanted to get your takeon that, because we never have
had an outsider's perspective onthat, aside from Stodge in the
spaces and like I think you camein and you spoke about Liam in

(24:58):
the space, but not reallyGladstone.
So, that being said, we'll getinto the game.
As I mentioned, jaguars Saints,we went down to New Orleans.
It ended up being a tieno-transcript, aside from the

(25:41):
Trevor Lawrence trip situationwhere he I think it was Ezra
Cleveland stepped on his footand we fumbled on the first
drive.
Aside from that, the first teamoffense showed us everything we
needed to show, and not onlythat, but basically they built
upon what we saw last week.
So it's like consistency.

(26:02):
We're starting to see, which iskind of odd for our offense.
I know it's just a preseason,but to see our offense function
consistently, it's like whoa man, like what.
What am I watching Is this?
Is this the new Jaguars?
Knock on wood here?
Let me knock on this dress overhere.
But I like what I saw out ofthe first team offense Offensive

(26:25):
line kept Trevor clean.
Right, that's the most importantpart.
A lot of these guys that youmentioned that we brought in had
to play as well Fred Johnson,some others.
They had to play as well.
So I like what I saw out of theoffensive line Also, too.
What I really liked about it isafter the fumble on the first

(26:45):
drive, right, as Jazz fans, weare programmed rightacob to
start panicking.
The sky is falling.
We finna just screw this wholegame up and we're finna look
like straight up, pure donkey,you know what.
But on the next drive it's likethey it.
It never happened.
The phone will never happen.

(27:05):
They went right back andstarted driving right back like
it was nothing, and I thinkthat's a testament of Liam's
scheme for Trevor, which I wantto hear your take on this too,
by the way.
But Trevor said back in trainingcamp that he feels like this
offense has all the answersRight and I can tell and I told
Phil this last week I can tellthat he truly believes that,

(27:29):
because in a lot of those thirddown situations he sat in the
pocket, was cool as a cucumberand would hit Brenton Strange
for a third down conversion andit's like man, like everything
was there mechanically,everything was there in terms of
the pass protection, like youcould really tell he believes
that even in third downsituations that they can

(27:50):
overcome whatever.
That wasn't the case with DougPeterson right, it felt like the
goal with Doug Peterson'soffense and Phil has said this
was just hope that TrevorLawrence could overcome a
deficit and get us out of secondand long, because normally
we'll be in second and long likesecond and 13, something crazy
like that man.
But yeah, what was yourassessment of not just Lawrence

(28:14):
and the offensive line, but justin general?
What was your assessment ofwhen the first teamers were out
there?
For me, my assessment was thatit does feel like they truly
have an identity, which theydidn't have and they feel like
this offense does present all ofthe answers and them coming
back from that fumble like theydid and just going down the
field with ease and scoring waskind of a testament to that.

(28:36):
Now we were playing the Saints,but what were your thoughts on
the first team offense?

Speaker 2 (28:42):
We were playing the Saints.
Yeah, yeah, that's true, but Imean it looked good, they look
solid and it's preseason.
I am not going to put that muchstock in the preseason, I'm
sorry.
Like this is one of those.
Let's just get the rest out,let's get some reps in and in
the case of trevor and company,it's a brand new system, guys.

(29:04):
So, yeah, we need to play, weneed to look.
The only thing I'm taking fromthis is that we seem to have a
base level grasp of the offense,because anything you run in
preseason is more or lessvanilla.
Like we'll throw some chocolatechips in there, maybe in like
week three, if the starters playa good bit of preseason, but

(29:25):
like it's pretty vanilla, wejust make sure do you feel like
they have an identity too aswell, like because that was the
big thing they didn't have anidentity last year?

Speaker 1 (29:36):
Do you see like some kind of shades of an identity
now?

Speaker 2 (29:40):
I do.
I see that this is going to bean offense where you got to make
decisions quick and be on timeand like I will say that Prez
Taylor, he wanted more of the.
Let me see if I can hit youwith a big one.
It's either a big one or acheck down.
Was basically Prez One of thetwo?
Like, oh crap, btj is not open?

(30:00):
All right, etn, five yard checkdown to the flats.
But like this is like, hey,let's make these reads quick and
just make a smart read.
And I like it.
Again, trevor, I think is 14 to19,.
14 to 17 so far this preseasonLooking real clean, efficient.
Again, vanilla.
But there is an identity and,more importantly, we're going to

(30:22):
run the ball is what it lookslike now.
And Tampa Bay had a pretty goodrushing attack last year.
Bucky Irving and company yeah,everybody's looking at oh Baker
threw for 4,000, 71% completionpass and everything and it's
like, yeah, that looks great.
But also they ran the ballreally, really well in Tampa.
So you got Tank Bisbee, you gotEtienne, you got a couple

(30:48):
behind them that look prettygood.
I think they're going to runthe ball and here's the
important thing they ran theball no matter what O-line unit
was in there.
So we got an identity of quickreads make a decision, trevor.
And I think that's whenTrevor's at his best is when he
can just 1-2, go, 1-2, go 1-2, 3, go, get it out, get it moving.
And also we got a run game.

(31:10):
Now he had a run game inClemson.
That's why he looked sodangerous in Clemson.
He had a ready game with themtoo.
So it's like you can't just pinyour ears back Now.
Once everybody realized, oh, wecan pin our ears back and go at
Trevor.
You saw what happened.
And, like you said, also, thefumble didn't just doom

(31:33):
everything, because what wasthat?
That's the miami game last year, first game of the season, if
I'm not mistaken.
What happened there?
After a fumble?
No wills just came all the wayoff.
So I like it.
There's the identity.
Like you said we, we havesomething here.
I don't expect most of thestars to play in week three of
the preseason.
I'm not sure if an announcementhas been made yet that I've
seen.
So I feel good.
Let's see how it looks likeweek one, when the bullets

(31:55):
become live and they're nolonger rubber bullets.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, I agree with a lot of what you said.
As you said, like we could seean identity from the standpoint
that they want to run the ball,clearly, and the tea leaves were
there, right, they drafted tworunning backs and in addition to
the two they have right, whichwe'll talk about them as well.
But when you look at TampaBay's offense you know it was
clear like okay, that's kind ofa Liam Cohen thing, he wants to

(32:21):
run the ball to help hisquarterback out, so on and so
forth.
Um, so, yeah, you right, like Isee a similar identity as that
you see as well, is let's getthese quick reads out, let's
avoid being in second down in 10plus, and the rest will will
fix itself pretty much.

(32:42):
And also, too, again, I see aquarterback in Trevor Lawrence
who is just very, very calmbecause of that, is just very,
very calm because of that,because of the quick reads,
because of not being in thirdand 15 or whatever the case may
be.
I see a very cool, calm andcollected Trevor Lawrence from
that standpoint because he wasin a few third downs again and

(33:03):
he did the same thing he didlast week go straight to Brenton
Strange in the middle of thefield.
Right, that's another key partthat the world ain't talking
about right now is that thisJaguars regime love Brenton
Strange in the middle of thefield.
Right, that's another key partthat the world ain't talking
about right now is that thisJaguars, which ain't love
Brenton Strange, and I think he,you know, like, you'll never,
as a tight end, you'll neverlike, have crazy stats in a Liam
Cohen system, but I think he'sgoing to be a great safety valve

(33:25):
for Trevor Lawrence and I think, like he's an underrated
athlete, because what we knewBrenton Strange for was his
physicality and ability to block.
But Liam Cohen is untappingsome potential in him that I
don't even think Doug Peterson,who was, you know, pretty good
with tight ends too, wasuntapping as well.
So it'll be interesting to see,you know, where they go with

(33:45):
him.
But it makes so much sense,right, jacob, when you see how
much they go to him as a safetyvalve and why they got rid of
Evan Ingram.
Everybody was like why wouldthe Jazz trade Evan Ingram?
He was obviously, you know, oneof their top offensive weapons
because they had a vision thatwe're seeing unfold, albeit
through some simple plays.
They had a vision for BrentonStrange who they drafted not too

(34:09):
long ago.
So there's that In terms of thestats.
Now I'll just run through thestats for some of the starters.
As you mentioned, trevorLawrence had a good day 8 of 10,
76 yards.
He did have the fumble throughone touchdown to Parker
Washington, another player who Iwant to you know we'll talk
about him in a little bit aswell here, jacob but Parker

(34:32):
Washington, with the touchdown,just got some yards after the
catch.
You know they couldn't bringhim down.
He was right there near thegoal line.
But another guy who people weresaying like oh, he's just a
practice player, like he onlyshows his practice, and lo and
behold, looks like ParkerWashington.
Heard y'all whispers and allthat good stuff, and he's been
great this preseason, by the way.
But he got the touchdown forthe Jacksonville Jaguars and

(34:55):
basial two and scored the otherone, if I'm not mistaken.
So yeah, real quick.
I just want to hear, before wego on the defensive side of
things, jacob, here, what areyour thoughts on not just Parker
Washington and BTJ, but theskill weapons for this group.
How do you think they'll panout?
Because we talked about the rungame, obviously, but what do

(35:18):
you think this receiving corewill look like and what are your
thoughts on them?

Speaker 2 (35:22):
All right.
So you got BTJ, receiver one.
No ifs, ands or buts about it.
You got the unicorn, travishunter you're likely receiver
two.
And then deami brown justcoming here in free agency.
So him and parker washingtonare basically on the same
playing field like you.
Hey, you're both essentiallynew here.

(35:43):
Let's see how this works.
But uh, to paraphrase my homiemartin z, john Johnson, parker
Washington heard y'all talkingand he took that personal.
Heard y'all talking and he waslike all right, I'm going to
show y'all what to do, so we'llsee.
We'll see.
It's an interesting battle forreceiver three.
But you have Strange as yourtight end Tank and ET into your

(36:07):
backfield BTJ, travis Hunter.
You got weapons Trevor.
You got what looks like a solidO-line.
Now We'll figure out receiverthree, receiver four Again, like
I said, gladstone and Liam arelike hey, here's everything,

(36:28):
it's on you because we paid you,so we're stuck with you for a
little bit.
But once we get to a pointwhere that cap hit is manageable
because, if I'm not mistaken,trevor has a no trade clause so
they can't trade a weather'spermission but once that cap hit
is manageable, I'm not sayingbut let's not act like it's not

(36:49):
a possibility.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, I mean.
Well, here's the thing, though.
Obviously, they came herebecause they love Trevor,
obviously, let's make that clear.
Okay, gladstone took this jobbecause it wasn't and we see
this a lot with GMs it wasn't asituation where you go in there
with a cupboard, his bear right,and he saw the potential in

(37:12):
Trevor.
Long Same thing with Liam Cohen.
He came here because, you know,they feel like I would think
they feel like they could hitthe ground running with Trevor.
But yeah, as you said, though,you know you always have to have
that thought in the back ofyour head what if it don't work
out?
You know what I'm saying?
Like he probably would be gonebefore them.
They just got here, right, sohe would probably be gone before

(37:35):
them.
But, um, yeah, man, like interms of what you were saying
about the, the skill group, Iwill say this I think diami
brown is gonna take off for thisteam, by the way, like because
he's looked great in in practiceagain.
But you know, obviously he hasto see the field and be healthy.
He played in that first gameand he had a pretty good end
around route, which I thinkwe'll see a lot of that with him

(37:57):
.
But I mean like what a what agood problem to have.
Like we really like having aproblem of De'Ami Brown being
number three and ParkerWashington being number four and
battling it out and both ofthem look pretty dang good bro.
Like and we've never reallybeen able to really say that
about the third wide receiver orfourth wide receiver under

(38:20):
Trent Baalke's regime like whata great problem to have, man.
And I think like more so, thequestion is more so, who is
receiver number five?
You know, and do you take sixreceivers on to the main roster
with you?
Like that's more so thequestion that may need to be
answered week three, by the way,we'll see and time will tell.
I think they stick with five.

(38:41):
You put Joshua Cephas atreceiver number five and call it
a day, but they may stick Irwinin there because of his punt
return ability.
We'll see that.
That's a question that theyprobably are going into week
three looking to find out theanswer for.
Um.
Also, you mentioned about theMiami Dolphins thing.
Um, I think what they probablywill do is they'll play the

(39:03):
starters in practice against theDolphins to get them some good
reps against.
You know, some high levelcompetition, but in terms of the
game and I don't have an insidesource on this or anything.
But when they get into the gameI think they'll just play the
backups, you know, and just keepeverybody from getting hurt in
that regard.
But yeah, that's our thoughtson the first team offense.

(39:25):
What were your thoughts on thefirst team defense?
Way better outing than lastweek, I'll say that for sure,
because like we were looking alittle sketchy last week we
couldn't stop nobody on thirddown.
Now again it's the Saints.
Got to take it with a grain ofsalt and that offense does look

(39:48):
bad.
But what were your thoughts onthe jump that they made from the
defense first-team defense fromweek one to week two?

Speaker 2 (39:56):
I mean, yeah, like you said, it's the Saints, so
I'm a great.
Just on a curve and you know,you look good.
I think this is just more soyou're getting comfortable in
the system.
You're getting comfortable inthe scheme, the verbiage knowing
oh okay, I'm supposed to behere, we should have this Now.
I know you'll be here so Idon't have to worry about it.

(40:17):
It's just comfort, like theseare the things that you're
expecting to see week two in thepreseason under a brand new
system.
So let's just you know, see howthis looks and we're
progressing fine.
Again, I'm not putting thatmuch stock in any of this
because, again, one, you'rerunning a vanilla defense, but
you're looking better.
You're keeping the lowly Saintsin check, so like good job, but

(40:41):
also like Saints.
So it's as expected.
Basically is the way I couldjust describe it.
It's like I need progression, Ineed to see that you can do
your job and now you're gettinga little more comfortable in the
system.
So, yeah, I'm good with how thefirst team defense is looking.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, I agree, you know it's always good to see
your defense make you know thempunt.
It wasn't just the first teamdefense, by the way, but they
punted the ball's.
See the first one, two, three,three drives.
Um, at the first two drivesexcuse me, first two drives they

(41:18):
punted the ball.
The Saints did.
They got a field goal on thethird drive.
So, yeah, the the defenselooked way better.
Um, they didn't give up thecrucial third downs like they
were last week.
Um, pass rush was a little bitbetter.
But again, like I don't reallywant to talk too much about the
defense because it is the saints, uh, but at the same time, you

(41:40):
know, still having that sense ofprogress does help them
mentally from where they werelast week.
Um, so we'll see and we'll.
We'll see, like, if they evenplay against the Miami dolphins
and if the dolphins even playtheir starters.
But yeah, let's hope that thisis trending towards that defense

(42:01):
, because a lot of people feellike that defense might not be
that great this year, andrightfully so.
You know, I can understand that.
But let's hope that this is, ifthis is the last time we see
the first team defense, this isthe step that can get them into
the regular season.
You know, running like a welloiled machine, of course.

(42:22):
Again, as I said, I think thefirst teamers will play in
practice against the Dolphinsand that'll get the first team
defense and reps against somesome notable players out there
on the Dolphins and that'll getthe first-team defense, some
reps against some notableplayers out there on the
Dolphins end.
But I think, that being said,this could be the start.
This game could be the start ofthat defense finding their
footing under new defensivecoordinator Anthony Campanile,

(42:46):
who you know.
Again, I like what I've seenfrom him when he was with the
Packers and what have you.
But we'll see in time, we'lltell, because I do have concerns
that this defense.
Personally, I think they mightstruggle in the beginning of the
season and start to find theirfoot midway through the season.
I hope I'm wrong on that, but Ithink this game could be

(43:07):
something that gets them goingin the right direction.
To where they avoid thatstruggle in the beginning of the
regular season.
We'll see and time will tell.
Now what I will say is you know, I think that Sanders trade
kind of confirms the concerns wehave about them in the middle,
you know, and stopping the runand the interior Popping the run

(43:29):
and the interior.
We'll see where they play him.
He'd probably be a backup toDevon Hamilton, but I do think
that kind of does show that theyhad concerns about what they
saw against the run, these firsttwo weeks at least.
Them getting Saunders, we'llsee.
But all of that said man, I amexcited to watch this defense,

(43:49):
but that interior scares me, me.
I like the addition of saundersI hope we can get.
The key is hopefully to getmason smith and armstead back so
we can get that push in theinterior and we can get off to a
better start than you know I'mhoping we get off to.
But we'll see and time willtell on that.
Jacob, um, were there any otheradditional takes you wanted to

(44:10):
add?
Well, no, yeah, actually I dowant to mention, um, some
standouts that caught my eye,aside from the starters.
Um, as you kind of mentionedand alluded to, uh, basial,
tooting, the fourth round rookierunning back that we got
continues to look good.
He got a touchdown man.
Uh, continues to look good, hegot a touchdown man.
Continues to impress, secondweek with him coming away out of

(44:33):
the game with a touchdown.
Also.
Laquint Allen, the seventhround rookie running back as
well, looked good as well, so Iwas impressed with what I saw
out of them.
I'm very excited about thisrunning back group, jacob, in
terms of just them as a group.
Even and I doubt they trade ETN, but even with factoring in the

(44:57):
fact that they probably aregoing to let Tank and ETN lead
the way, I'm still excited aboutthose two young rookies.
Man, I want to know yourthoughts on them and, like, do
you see, like what kind of roleyou see out of those two the two
youngsters, because obviouslywe know what we got in the
veterans but the two youngstersand how you felt about how they
looked in these last two weeks.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, they are looking really, really good.
If we're going to be honest,that is probably the deepest
unit on this team, on both sidesof the ball.
I say it's probably the runningback position and as far as,
what do I see out of them?
I got to say that it'llprobably be running back three.

(45:42):
They'll probably get thosespare.
Maybe a third down rep here, ormaybe we'll throw a special
package in get a breather, athird down rep here, or maybe
we'll throw a special package inget a breather.
But it's interesting because youhave four what looks like
serviceable to really goodoptions.
Do you carry all four into theregular season, like I know you

(46:02):
just drafted two of them, but doyou carry all four?
Maybe you work one in thespecial teams that want to be a
runner.
Let one be a return man.
But I think the bright spot isit's a good problem to have,
because if Tank or ETN go downfor one, four games, five games,
not wishing injury on anybodyby any means, but if you happen

(46:24):
to lose one of them for astretch, I think we've seen in
these two preseason games wehave one, if not two,
backsseason games.
We have one, if not two, backsthat can easily slide right in.
So it's a good problem to havewe got Duff.
I just expect them to get inwhere they fit in and, you know,
play their roles and be readyto go.
I'm not expecting significantcarries and touches for them,

(46:47):
but I expect when they do gettheir moments they're going to
make the most of them andthey'll make everybody that
hasn't been paying attention go.
Oh, where'd he come from?
Oh, okay, gladstone can go findsome talent in the draft.
Okay, we got promised Now wemight not have to pay Trevor or
Tank.
I'm sorry, travis or Tank Mightnot have to pay one of those

(47:09):
now.
Potentially, if we get intothat situation because, as we
all know, running back is stillthe most disrespected position
where it's like ah, what are you27 looking for contract number
two?
I don't know, dog, I ain'treally trying to pay you 13 mil
a year.
I just go get somebody out thedraft.
You know, start back over.
Unless you're a safe one aDerrick Henry you know those are

(47:29):
back over.
Unless you're a safe one, aDerrick Henry, you know those
are a few farting in between.
So it gives you options and itgives you something for the now.
Worst comes to worst and itgives you something for the
future, which is not somethingthis team has had in the past,
in the prior regimes.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Yeah, I think with ETN we've discussed this, like
me and Phil have.
But just I'm saying it to you,I think, with ETN that of course
he on the last year his deal.
You know the tea leaves arekind of at first I didn't, I
didn't want to believe it, butthe tea leaves are there.

(48:06):
They drafted these two runningbacks to be a succession plan
for ETN.
I think Allen especially mightbe the one they view to replace
ETN, but Basialtoon is making avery hard conversation for him
to be the one because like he'sgot the physicality, he's got
the explosiveness, like it wasone play right where it was

(48:31):
fourth and one, I think, orthird and one.
They stopped him behind theline.
He kept his legs turning andgot the first down, like it
would have, you know, if theystopped him where the initial
contact was made, that wouldhave been a loss or no game man.
But like Tootin is reallyreally I was really higher on
Allen and Tootin before this,but after watching Tootin these

(48:52):
last two weeks, man, like theymight have struck gold with that
.
Which should we be surprised?
Because obviously Liam Cohenknows how to find him right with
Bucky Irvin' and the otherrunning back from the Bucs is
escaping me right now, butobviously they know how to find
running backs without spending athird round pick or higher on

(49:13):
it.
But yeah, man, I think, likeyou know, they just got a plan
in place for when etn theyprobably I doubt they resign
them.
Uh, when etn's last year is up,this year you know they'll just
.
It's next man up, bigs, believethe way.
Basial two and number twobehind him and I think Allen
like I think his niche and meand Jamal talked about this

(49:35):
might be third downs because heis the better pass protector out
of all of them, arguably youknow that's crazy because he a
rookie, but he's arguably thebest pass protector out of all
of them.
I like what I saw out of him,not just in pass protection but
just catching the ball as well,and he's sneaky fast too.
But I think, like the niche forhim and the idea with him is he

(49:58):
might be a third down guy butyeah, man, as you said, deepest
position on the team.
It does get me real excitedabout what the future holds, and
not even the future, but theregular season holds for these
guys kind of mentioned it too,like is it a bad thing to have
four guys in a 17 year season.
You know 17 game season, right,like we forget man.

(50:20):
And then the owners are tryingto add more, by the way, which
that's another story for anothertime.
But 17 games is kind ofrigorous for a running back,
right, and we saw last year Tankand Etienne got injured.
So is drafting these two kidsthe wrong thing to do, like, I
know it's an easy position tohit on, but it's double dipping
and running back for your firstdraft class If you, james

(50:42):
Glasson, was that a bad idea?
I think not and I think we'llsee these kids.
You know they'll have to stepin, you know, for a game or two,
if an injury occurs, and we'llknock on wood.
We don't want that to happen,but you know it kind of feels
like it's the inevitable withhow long the seasons are, like
your running back, one and twogenerally miss a game or two.
It is what it is and I thinkthose two kids have shown that

(51:04):
they will be ready, albeit again, the preseason.
I think they'll be ready tostep up when that time comes in
terms of, you know, if we'redealing with injuries at the
running back position, all right.
So I guess, jacob, you want toget into the Ryan Clark thing?

Speaker 2 (51:22):
yeah, we can go ahead and talk about that real quick.
I'm sure that's what everybodyis coming to us for.
So basically the whole contextof what Ryan Clark said because
we love to just see headlinesand, you know, go off of that is
basically Travis Hunter has toplay both sides of the ball at a
high clip on both sides, whichis fair in like because you gave

(51:45):
up two first round picks forhim.
You gave up this year's pickand you gave up next year's, so
essentially you gave up twoplayers for one, but what you
were hoping is that you gave uptwo players to get two players
in one.
So I get it.
I see where he's coming fromwith that premise.
And Orlowski was like well, ifhe catches 50-something balls

(52:11):
and has like 2,000 yards andlike seven touchdowns, you know,
if Trevor Lawrence looks likeTrevor Lawrence, like we thought
he would be, then it'sabsolutely worth it to an extent
.
Because let me ask you aquestion Would Travis Hunter, if
he was strictly a receiver orstrictly a corner, would he have

(52:32):
been the first receiver orcorner taken?
Because I can make a verystrong argument that I don't
think he's cornerback one I'msorry, receiver one
necessarily'm sorry receiver onenecessarily Cornerback probably
, but I don't know if he's thefirst receiver off the board.
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
You probably heard me say this I always thought he
was a better cornerback thanwide receiver.
Anyway, he's a phenomenalcornerback to me, like amazing,
fantastic cornerback.
Phenomenal cornerback to me,like amazing, fantastic
cornerback.
The ability to just contort hisbody and you know, either
intercept or break up passesthat nobody else can.
He's like Mr Fantastic, shoutout to the Fantastic Four, like

(53:14):
Mr Fantastic, how he can contorthis body and like reach around
receivers and what have you.
But yeah, I mean, like when youlook at Travis Hunter, the
receiver, and comparing him tothat receiver class, no, I don't
think he would have been widereceiver one, I probably would.
I'll be more inclined to takehim as cornerback One of the
class that we just had over widereceiver one.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Yeah, because I just had to go pull up the first
round.
You had a Ted McMillan fromArizona who many people
considered receiver one.
You had to do let's see whoelse from receiver we had.
He may uh.
Ibuka from Ohio State went.
Matthew Golden also went in thefirst round and let's not
forget this, if there was not apending sexual assault charge,

(54:02):
isaiah Bond was likely a firstround pick and likely top 15,
top 10 pick as well.
And I don't see Travis beingbetter than two of those three
head and shoulders wise, whereit's like a consensus.
And again, this is no knock ontravis sunner.

(54:23):
I love travis sunner.
I think he's an amazing player,amazing human being, from what
I've seen.
Like the man just went to class, got his degree and then went
to football and went home, likethat's it.
Like man just wants to footballand go home and fish, that's it
, perfect, love it.
It's just you got to remembercoming out of high school.

(54:43):
No one played in the country buthe came out as a corner.
He was a shut down, locked down, eliminated side of a field
corner.
He went to Jackson State.
He was a corner and he shutdown a whole entire side and
then he got some reps in atreceiver at Jackson State and
then go to Colorado.

(55:03):
You expand the role.
But you think about his Heismanseason.
Most of those plays that youthink about were him as a corner
, him causing a fumble in OT,him breaking up passes to win
games, him coming with I believeit was a ucf game, like three
o'clock in the afternoon on fox.
Him making a pick on a sidelinefrom nowhere that like I still

(55:27):
don't know how he picked it as acorner, corner one, absolutely.
I just don't know if you take acorner that high in the draft so
I get where ryan clark iscoming from.
Like you now have to play bothsides to make this worthwhile
because, bro, we just gave uptwo picks.
We didn't completely mortgagethe future for you, but we need
you to do something, and theconversation dove into.

(55:49):
Well, if trevor looks good andryan clark, to his credit, said
thing that I think a lot ofpeople need to realize trevor
lawrence ain't nothing to dowith what Travis Hunter looks
like.
Don't try to attach Travis toTrevor or vice versa for Trevor

(56:11):
to look good, because I thinksomebody I think Rosario
mentioned that.
Like if Travis plays defenseand gets six picks and catches
50 and Trevor Lawrence stinksHunter, oh, as Dan Oloski, and
he's like well, what Travis diddoesn't matter.
And Ryan Clark immediately goesno, no, trevor Lawrence is
responsible for Trevor Lawrence.
What Travis Hunter did in thatsituation matters, but he's like

(56:32):
.
The matter is he played bothsides enough.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
So yeah, if he does it, if he ends up becoming
primarily receiver two, thenit's not going to feel like it
was worth it so I think this, Ithink the lack of success will
for the jacksonville jaguarsorganization will kind of help

(56:56):
the jacksonville jaguars on howthey feel about the travis
hunter pick.
Right, jac?
And what I mean by this is ifthe Jaguars offense looks great
and they're clicking, chancesare it's going to be because
Travis Hunter and TrevorLawrence are doing their thing,
and what have you, and we'll endup in the playoffs.
If we end up in the playoffs,jazz fans aren't going to care
that we gave up that first roundpick because we've had such a

(57:18):
lack of success over time.
Now the national perceptionmight be different.
Right, they still can say like,hey, you gave up too much.
Um, you know, there still was alot to pay, but for us we've
had such a lack of success.
I think if our offensecontinues down the path that
they are and again, it's thepreseason, so we can't put too

(57:38):
much into that but if theycontinue down the path that
they're going and they continueto look like they're looking,
and if Travis Hunter is a keycontributor to that on the
offensive side and you knowwhatever he could contribute on
the defensive side, you know Idon't think we're gonna care
that we gave up that first roundpick and I think that's James
Gladstone's mindset too is likenobody's gonna care if the

(58:01):
Jaguars are winning and go tothe playoffs and consistently go
to the playoffs.
We're not going to care aboutthat first round pick because
it'll be a top 20 pick, whateverthe case may be.
But also something too worthmentioning too as well, jacob, I
think, is, while a lot ofnational pundits get caught up

(58:23):
on what we gave up for him andthat additional first round pick
that we gave up for him, Ithink James Gladstone mindset is
you know, even if Travisdoesn't work out as much as we
think he will and he's still anokay player to great player and
not elite player I can stillcompensate for it in another way

(58:45):
.
I can pick up with that firstround pick that we would have
had.
Instead of having that firstround pick, we could pick up a
marquee free agent next year.
That'll make up for that,because I looked at the salary
cap, we're looking pretty goodnext year.
Salary cap wise I think we'retop 10.
So maybe james gladstone'smindset is like, even if it
doesn't work out where he'selite right, that first round

(59:08):
pick, we can overcompensate forthat by getting a top tier free
agent next year and you knownobody.
I don't want to say he wouldcover it up, but again, I don't
think it'll be as noticeablewith the way that James
Gladstone operates and we see,like we mentioned earlier, how
the Rams operate.
I really don't think it's goingto be that noticeable.

(59:30):
Like who was noticing when theRams was missing out on all the
first round picks?
They had right.
It kind of went under the radarbecause they were constantly
knocking on the door to go tothe Super Bowl or making noise
in the playoffs.
And I think James Gladstonethinks in a similar way.
We're going to be contendersfor a long time, constantly

(59:51):
knocking on the door for a SuperBowl.
Whether that happens or not,time will tell.
But if that's the case and theyoperate like the Rams, nobody
in Jacksonville is going to careabout that first round pick.
We gave up and we might give upsome more heading forward.
You know what I'm saying,depending on how things go.
But that's just me.
That's just me.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
All right, so fair points.
But let's put some context tothis.
Those picks that the Rams gaveup were for finishing pieces,
were for established names.
We'll throw a pick to get a VonMiller.
We'll give up this to get anOBJ, to get a Jalen Ramsey.
These were finishing pieces andthings.

(01:00:31):
So let's just add that context.
But I see where you're comingfrom with the principle and the
argument of it.
Very solid point.
However, let's do this.
Let's say Travis Hunter catches60 passes, thousand yards, five
touchdowns.
On the flip side, on thedefensive side, let's say he

(01:00:55):
comes away with four picks, aforced fumble and like 10 pass
breakups, and we'll say about 20tackles.
It's about a solid season as acorner, right.
But let's say the team goes 5and 13, 6 and, I'm sorry, 5 and
12, 6 and 11, maybe at best 7, 7, seven wins, eight wins, do

(01:01:22):
eight and nine.
Then what Then?
How do you feel?
Do you feel like you wastedthat pick?
Are you now looking aroundTravis and going?
He did his job.
16, btj, etn, heinz Allen, restof y'all.
What's going on here?
How do you look at it then?

(01:01:44):
Do you feel like you stillwasted the number two pick?
Because who would?
And here's the other thing totake in consideration.
With this and like again, we'rein that part of the year where
you got to talk about somethingon TV for ESPN for 10 plus hours
, the year where you got to talkabout something on TV for ESPN
for 10 plus hours a day.
You got to talk about something.

(01:02:05):
So let's keep that in mind.
We're preseason.
But my main thing is if TravisHunter again, 1,100 yards, seven
touchdowns, 50-some catches,four picks, a forced fumble,
some pass breakups and like 20tackles, is that worth it In the
immediate?
Like long run?
Yeah, he could be a gold jacket, be great for the Jags,

(01:02:27):
ultimate time, all pro and yeahyou'll say it's worth it.
But year one you get thosenumbers, is it worth it?

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
Yeah, well, with the records you mentioned.
Yeah, you got to feel like nah,if they end up with one of the
records, but that's the thing Idon't feel like.
If he put up the numbers yougave me, I think they went in
the division.
And another factor that'sfactoring into this for me as
well too, jacob, is the jaguarscan afford to make a gamble like

(01:02:57):
that and it working becausethey are in a weak division too.
By the way, I'm not super highon the Texas because of their
offensive line.
We'll see what they look like,but I'm not super high on them.
I think this gamble, ultimately, if he put up those numbers and
granted everybody stay healthytoo, he put up those numbers, I

(01:03:20):
think we're in the playoffshonestly.
But no, now, in the situationyou mentioned, if we come away
again and I already said this ifwe come away with seven wins to
less, then it kind of feel likea waste.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
And I put those win totals because you can have
great numbers and they're emptystats, like empty calories, like
empty stats is the thing.
And again, this isn't to wishor foreshadow anything negative
toward Travis.
This is let's explore allpossibilities and, realistically

(01:03:55):
speaking, we'll probably fallsomewhere in that bubble, maybe
a little closer to 10 wins,maybe a little lower on his
numbers, but that's probably theparameters we're falling in,
given off of the talent we'veseen what we've seen.
This is a safe bet.
And yeah, it's a two-teamdivision.
Like let's keep it above.
Colts are a dumpster fire.

(01:04:17):
Almost Like you got DanielJones, unlessy dimes can turn
back the clock.
Or like I figure it out, youdon't know what they're doing
with anthony richardson, like heis now the backup and I saw
something I was like he'syounger than uh, chador, he's

(01:04:37):
younger than bo nicks, he'syounger than a bunch of people
and it's like, yeah, he only hadlike 40 starts between high
school and getting to the pros,but still so, that's Indy.
The Titans have a decent tovery good defense, depending
upon the day.
But that offensive side of theball look, ken Ward, like you,

(01:04:58):
look great.
You are arguably the leasttalked about number one pick
ever, which is a good thing foryou.
No expectations, fly underneaththe radar, do your job, but
that Titans offense is not goingto be great.
The Titans are not.
Six wins is the ceiling for theTitans.
So yeah, it's you and theTexans.
And the Texans have a top 10defense.
That is very scary when it'sclicking.

(01:05:19):
Just ask the Chargers andthey're like yeah, you're right,
that O-line isn't great inHouston, especially after you
got rid of Tussle, and like whatare we doing here?
But also they're kings of thedivision.
Like.
There was a window where thiswas supposed to be Trevor and
Jacksonville and Houston hired anew head coach in D'Amico Ryans

(01:05:45):
and when he got a quarterbackand then immediately when he got
a defensive signal callercaptain on the field and Will
Anderson, so like, and they tookit by storm they grabbed the
division by the horns and saidit's ours now.
So until you prove me otherwise, jacksonville and yes, I know
those Jacksonville-Houston gamesare always a toss-up, no matter

(01:06:07):
how good or how bad one end is,they're always dogfights.
I have to lean toward Houston,not to say Jacksonville can't
get in as a wild cardpotentially because AFC East is
the Bills and maybe the Patriots, afc North should be the Ravens
, and maybe you get the Bengalsor the Steelers, depending upon

(01:06:31):
which one, if the Bengals canfigure out defense and the
Steelers can figure out offense.
And then you got AFC West,which, honestly, all four of
those teams are going to beabove 500 and going to be
probably close to 10 wins.
So you could sneak in.
You could sneak in as the Jags,as a wild card, but I'm just

(01:06:52):
looking at this like all right,you missed the playoffs.
You end up in that 7-9 winbracket, which means you're
probably picking 10 to 15-ish,10 to 20, give or take.
Is it worth it?

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
Yeah, no, all valid points, man, all valid points, I
think.
In the end I think it will payoff.
But hey, I've been wrong, right, both of us have been wrong and
both of us have been massivelywrong at times.
So we'll see, man, and timewill tell on that.
But I thought it was aninteresting conversation, man,

(01:07:29):
and yeah, I mean, like you said,you do have to find something
to fill in the time with.
So I guess we can't reallyblame them for like bringing up
that conversation because it isa valid, like that's a
legitimate I'd rather listen tothat than the other bs that they
be talking about on there likeit's a legitimate conversation
to have right, it's not as hotof a take as it seems like.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
If you just look at the headline, like I let me
google it again because what itpulls up is kind of hilarious.
It literally is what is travishunter, a quote, waste.
And waste is in all caps of anumber two pick.
And then it's like, oh, youcan't call him a waste.
It's like bro, it's week threeof the preseason now.

(01:08:11):
Like we haven't played anymeaningful society in a whole
have to like stop being soheadline clickbaity driven and
actually put back nuance andattention into things and read

(01:08:33):
stuff, actually listen and hearthings out.
Like yes, like I joked with youwhen you texted me.
I was like, yeah, let me comethrough and spit some hot takes
for old time's sake, becausesomebody will hear this.
And just hear the one thingthat I say.
That's like oh, oh, he's tryingto be funny or he's trying to
make.
And it's like no, listen to theother three sentences after

(01:08:54):
that.
Like we need to bring backnuance to sports discussion and
just in general, like let'sbring back the actual thought
out, the understanding, and likenot just the clicky, ooh, hot
take, headlining barbershop talk, water cooler, gotta get my jab

(01:09:15):
in bit like no, we used to be aproper country with these
things.

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
Yeah, no, no, you're right, You're right.
Somewhere down the line webecame so reactive to titles and
not the context of things.
But you know, here we are, man.
But, yeah, man, it was good tohave you back man and a great
conversation.
We definitely got to bring youin more, man and a great

(01:09:42):
conversation.
We definitely got to bring youin more.
Any other closing remarks youwant to make or want to plug
anything before we go ahead andhead on out?

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
No man.
Like I said, I just want to saythank you again.
I appreciate you letting meshare your platform and the
stage with you.
Again, I say this and Icontinually mean this, and you
know I mean this you are mybrother from another mother.
Like we said before, it isalways going to be love here.
You are basically like familyto me.
So again, I thank you.
You are again one of thehardest working men in

(01:10:11):
independent media Period.
Point blank Hands down.
I will put you up againstalmost anybody that doesn't have
a machine backing them upagainst almost anybody that
doesn't have a machine backingthem.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
Again, bro, I appreciate it, I feel like it
too, man.
Like in terms.
I'm not talking about like in aboastful way, but I'm tired as
all.
Get out bro.

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
Yeah, like the man's Twitter handle is sportsgrind
underscore Don.
No, he literally grinds Likethe man works for this because
to take something, and yeah, youcan use to believe in the USA
Today backings and all that, andlike that'll get you a fan base
off the ground to start forthose that like the work that we
did before, but to keep it inthe build and just to see it

(01:10:51):
elevate and grow bit by bit.
Every soft, and I'm justlooking at things.
I'm like, all right, now he'sdoing TikToks, he's growing the
audience here.
Looking at things, I'm like,all right, now he's doing
tiktoks, he's growing theaudience here.
I'm like, oh, him and phil arein the press box getting press
passes.
As an independent media, it'snot an easy thing to do.
Like I am proud of you boys,absolutely.

(01:11:12):
And again I'm here.
This might sound like overkillto whoever's listening to it.
I'm trying trying to blow smokeup.
No, this is genuine.
I am proud of you boys.
I am happy that I was a part ofthis a long time ago and I'm
happy to still see y'all working.
Anytime you can't find Phil getssick, staj can't slide in,

(01:11:34):
whatever reason you needsomebody, just text me.
If I can make it work.
I will pull up for you.
You one of those folks that,hey, yeah, I got some time.
I hey, man, I might have 15, 20minutes, but I can give you
those 15 20 so that way youdon't do a whole episode by
yourself.
But again, thank you.
I appreciate it.
As far as me, find me ontwitter at underscore jdella,
that's j-d-e-l-a.

(01:11:55):
You can find my writings andmusings over at inscapecom.
August of Must Spy Guide isavailable and live now.
It should be one of my mostrecent tweets on Twitter.
It's right there.
I might retweet it again.
I'm sure James will probablygive it a push again too, which
I greatly appreciate.
Everything, sir, and yeah,that's it, man.
Thank you, I could do this allnight with you.

(01:12:17):
This felt good, felt great tobe back.
I could do this all night withyou.
This felt good, felt great tobe back.
Did you miss me, guys?
Did you miss me?
Don't, don't lower the show'srating just because I came back
for an episode.
Like, keep these boys at fivestars, they deserve this.
Just just hate on me on thecomments for this one episode.
But did you miss me?
Did you miss me?
You might get a little bit moreof me now no-transcript.

Speaker 1 (01:13:02):
It was times where me and you were talking about
Swerve back in Lucha Underground.
Now you interviewing the dude.
You know what I'm saying.
Like it's crazy to see thingscoming full circle.
But, um, you know, for you tosay what you said about me, I
feel like the grind and um andyou already had this before you
met me, but I felt like some ofit rubbed off on you as well,

(01:13:27):
and to see what you're doing,man, that makes me feel like I'm
doing things right as well.
So, that being said, man,appreciate the kind words, man,
love the content you're puttingout.
Can't wait.
You whispered some names thatyou might be able to work with
in the future that I'm and I'mgonna stick with you on this too
.
I'm gonna stay with you on it.
If they don't happen, I'm gonnaget at you, be like hey, you

(01:13:48):
said you was, you was going todo this interview with such and
such.
Go ahead and you know, get upon it, man.
You got some interviews thatyou say you got in the in the
woodworks, that we, wedefinitely want to hear.
Wrestling-related interviews,man, some names that people have
seen on both you and mytimeline and Phil's timeline.
So whenever they're completed,shoot me the link.

(01:14:10):
Of course I'm going to post it.
Facebook, you know me, I don'tcare.
Facebook, and now Instagram gota retweet button, so that's
even more dangerous.
Facebook, you name it, I gotyou my man.
And yeah, man, appreciate youcoming on.
Man, it was good to have youback.
I am sportsgrind underscoredone.
You can follow him at Jadela onTwitter.
We'll link all of his stuff aswell.

(01:14:32):
Also, websitetouchdownjadwarscom you can find
our archive episodes andwritten content on there.
Phil is at Phil, the Filipinoat TD Jaguars pod is where you
can find us on Twitter.
Again, we'll never call it X,but all of that said, until next
time, everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
Real quick, real quick, real quick.
One last thing before we getout of here.
I'll be remiss to not give Philcongratulations on landing.
I believe this may be his firstvoice acting gig One of his
first, definitely.
I saw the post today onInstagram.
Salute, sir, congrats, greatwork.
I remember when you made thepost like I want to get into

(01:15:11):
voice acting.
Congratulations on landing yourfirst role, sir.
Again, I am proud of you, justlike I am proud of James Yep,
wait for it podcast.
Y'all boys have been grindingand doing everything from the
bottom with no backing.
So, phil, congrats on the firstrole of Minnie.

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
It's just a start for you, sir.
Yeah, shout outs to Phil andcongrats on that man.
I retweeted that.
Feel free to check out.
And it's just one part of it.
Of course, the rest is comingout later of the project that
he's voice acting on.
So, yeah, shout outs to Phil.
Like Jacob said and you'reright, we would be remiss, not
to mention the work that he'sputting in We'll wait for it and

(01:15:51):
also that he is putting in withhis voice acting endeavors.
So, all of that said, I'm JamesJohnson.
He is Jacob DeLawrence.
All of that said, I'm JamesJohnson.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
He is Jacob DeLawrence, and until next time
we are signing out and lookforward for more episodes from
the two of us as well.
Down the road, everybody takecare.