September 18, 2024 • 40 mins
Is the Jacksonville Jaguars’ season already in jeopardy after just two weeks? On this episode of the Touchdown Jaguars podcast, Phil Smith and James Johnson tackle the hard-hitting questions surrounding the team's disappointing 18-13 loss to the Cleveland Browns. With a seventh consecutive defeat in the books, we scrutinize Trevor Lawrence's unexpected struggles and the disheartened fan base’s growing concerns. As we sift through the wreckage of the game, the focus shifts to the team's lackluster performance and the worrisome signals from the players' body language, leaving us wondering if significant changes are needed to salvage the season.
We shine a spotlight on the Jaguars' offensive woes, questioning the underutilization of talents like Brian Thomas Jr. and the impact of Evan Engram's absence. Despite Monteric Brown and others making notable contributions on defense, the overall inconsistency and failure to adapt are glaring issues. Comparing Doug Pederson’s current struggles with his tenure in Philadelphia, we explore whether better support from the front office could turn the tide for the Jaguars. The broader implications of management’s role in the team’s performance are laid bare, challenging listeners to consider if leadership changes are essential for future success.
Finally, we dissect the Jaguars' failure to leverage their playmakers effectively, advocating for a more vertical passing game to unlock the team's potential. The ongoing issues with the offensive line, seemingly misaligned with Doug Pederson and GM Trent Baalke’s coaching philosophies, are another focal point. As we look ahead to a critical matchup against the Buffalo Bills, we express skepticism about the Jaguars' ability to resolve internal conflicts and poor leadership. However, amidst the turmoil, we hold on to a sliver of hope, believing that potential solutions could still emerge with the right adjustments. Join us for this comprehensive exploration of the Jaguars' current state and the possible paths forward.
James Johnson and Phil Barrera bring you the best and most up to date Jacksonville Jaguars news. "Touchdown Jaguars!" is a tribute to the prospective ownership group "Touchdown Jacksonville!" In 1991, the NFL announced plans to add two expansion teams and "Touchdown Jacksonville!" announced its bid for a team, and Jacksonville was ultimately chosen as one of five finalists. In November 1993, the NFL owners voted 26–2 in favor of awarding the 30th franchise to Jacksonville. James and Phil have been fans of the franchise ever since and have had the honor (and sometimes dishonor) of covering the team professionally since 2017. The rest as they say, is history.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Still running.
And no, that is a no no.
Touchdown Jacksonville.
A hundred and nine yardsIncredible, incredible Play
action Upstairs wide open.
(00:44):
Tommy Bohannon, touchdownJacksonville.
Looking for Jimmy in the endzone.
Touchdown Jaguars.
Touchdown Jaguars.
Touchdown Jaguars.
Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguarspodcast.
Here are your hosts, jamesJohnson and Phil Smith.
(01:06):
Hello everybody, welcome backto the Touchdown Jaguars podcast
.
I am your co-host, phil Smith,and joining me, as always, is
your other co-host, jamesJohnson and Jay.
We are recording this episode alittle bit later than we
typically would.
We're here on Monday night,september 16th, typically.
We of course like to record ourepisodes the evening after the
(01:26):
game, a little bit later than wetypically would.
We're here on Monday night,september 16th.
Typically.
We of course like to record ourepisodes the evening after the
game, but you know we actuallywill benefit a little bit here
from being more than 24 hoursremoved from the game.
So you know we've had someopportunity to take in what the
(01:51):
coaching staff has had to say,take taken what the players have
had to say.
So you know some things wedon't necessarily have full
access to whenever we do recordon Sunday night.
So hopefully that will bring usa little bit more of a fresh
perspective here as we will lookback at the Jaguars week two
loss to the Cleveland Browns intheir home opener, in a game,
jay, where you know, I think wehad this discussion like a
similar discussion last year,where I said, okay, let's talk
everybody down and we mentionedthis last week too, against
(02:12):
Miami.
Let's talk everybody off theledge and calm everybody down.
Well, we're already at thispoint now here in week two where
we're kind of running out ofanswers and running out of ways
to become like a voice of reasonor deliver a sense of calm over
the fan base, because I thinkwe're here as well, I think
(02:35):
we're right there with you guysand just based off of our
discussions in our text threadsand the pre-show and all that
stuff, jay, it's going to beinteresting to see how we can.
I don't want to say spin this,but like, what conclusions have
we come to in regards to thefuture of this team?
Still a lot of games to play,right, we're two games in, we
(02:57):
got 15 left and still plenty oftime to turn things around.
But that same old song anddance is getting old.
I think we're ready for a newsong, a new dance and, more
importantly, some new dancepartners.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
So very excited to have this discussion with you
today, but unfortunately we'llbe discussing yet another loss
yeah, yeah, and, as you said,man, um, it's going to be
interesting to see how weweather this right this time
around.
As you said, a lot of games areleft to be played, but I don't
(03:32):
know if that's necessarily agood thing.
That could mean we got a longseason ahead, which I'll explain
that a little bit later.
We'll get into that part alittle bit later, but I don't
know if that's a good thing inthis case.
We'll get into that part alittle bit later, but I don't
know if that's a good thing inthis case.
Normally it is right, becausethis time last year we at least
were healthy, right, and thisyear we're healthy too for the
(03:54):
most part.
We obviously lost Evan Ingramfor some games or some time, but
there were a lot of things thatwe can look at to make us
believe that things could turnaround.
After Sunday's game, however,man, we are coming off of what
like seven straight losses forthis team.
(04:15):
I believe I have to do myresearch on it.
So that's not good.
And yeah, as you have said,yeah, man, we are at this point
we're running out of answers, soI can't wait to, um, have this
discussion on the game.
I got some interesting stuff inmy notes here.
I didn't get to see the fullgame.
I've seen about four quartersand two minutes of it, so
(04:41):
there's a little bit left that Igotta see because, as you all
saw on Twitter, I was at workand before this episode I did a
speed run, so I typically liketo do a like all 22 look.
But we're gonna make it workwith what I have seen.
I think I've seen enough.
Needless to say, um, when youlook at this game, but uh, yeah,
(05:01):
man, this is going to be a veryinteresting one from us because
, as you said, like we normallyare good with talking people off
the ledge here.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
But uh, after a seven game loss, man, it's getting
really, really interesting inthe wrong ways in the uh
building over there at uh tiaabank road yeah, not only is it
seven losses in a row, jay, thelast win that they did have, if
I remember correctly if I sawthe same statistic that you saw
(05:32):
the quarterback was CJ Beathard.
So Trevor Lawrence himself ison a unprecedented losing streak
for him as far as his career,when you probably look back to,
of course, college definitelynever lost that much, and I'm
sure high school was more of thesame in terms of winning.
So, going to discuss all ofthat here today, I know we're
(05:53):
going to discuss a lot about thegame, but also maybe even what
changes need to be made, and Icannot believe we have to have
this discussion in week two.
Once again, things can turnaround very, very quickly, but I
don't know that we're going tosee that here, based off body
language, based off what peopleare saying, based off things
that we are hearing.
You know it's really tough togo off of.
(06:14):
You know hearsay, especiallywhen it comes to the NFL, but
you can certainly pick up onenergy and pick up on the vibe,
for lack of a better term.
So we're going to get into allof that here in just a moment.
We want to welcome in all of youreturning listeners as well as
brand new listeners to theTouchdown Jaguars podcast.
Make sure you click theLinktree link in the show notes
(06:34):
of this episode.
You'll find everything you needall of our social media pages,
which includes me and Jay'spersonal Twitter account, as
well as the Twitter account forTouchdown Jaguars.
You will also find a link tothe website, touchdownjaguarscom
, where we will intermittentlyput up different articles and
reports.
Well, Jay will get those upthere intermittently.
And, of course, you can goahead and download the SeatGeek
(06:55):
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Save yourself $20 on your firstSeatGeek purchase courtesy of
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Seatgeek will help you out andthey'll even make it easy for
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(07:17):
So make sure you use that promocode Touchdown Jaguars, and we
would very, very much appreciateit.
But, jay, let's go ahead anddive straight into this loss.
It was a very messy and rainyday down at Trevor Bank Field,
which it was known as yesterday,and I can tell you just as
somebody who was there in person, the weather matched the energy
(07:41):
.
It was on and off raining allday.
And I do want to, jay.
I'm just going to throw thisout here because it was probably
one of the even morefrustrating things than the team
that happened at the game.
I don't know, I know you hadmuted our group chat yesterday,
so I don't even know if you sawthis.
But the guy sitting next to meI don't care if I'm, I don't
(08:01):
care if this person finds thisor whatever, because your
behavior is is criminal the guysitting next to me, jay, for
pretty much the entire game andremember it was raining on and
off this entire game had hisshoes off barefoot the entire
game.
Disgusting behavior.
I don't care Like this isn'tthe beach, you know we're not
(08:23):
down at Jack's Beach or somenonsense like that.
You're at a football game,there's other people around you,
keep your freaking shoes on andfreaking is what I edited
myself to say instead of what Iwant to say, which I did say
over on my Twitter account Setthe whole tone.
I think, jay, I'm going toblame that guy for exposing his
(08:44):
disgusting feet and making mesit next to him for the entire
game.
I'm going to blame the loss onhim.
I hope I don't see him at allfor the remainder of the season.
But as far as the football goes, the Jaguars lost 18-13 to the
Cleveland Browns, who were alsocoming in with a whole lot of
(09:05):
questions when it comes to theirteam, especially when it came
to their quarterback right, whoI will not mention by name.
But yeah, it was a tale of twohalves once again and a shout
out to our buddy Eric, who kindof mentioned this like it was
kind of a reverse of whathappened in Miami last week.
So in the first halfJacksonvilleville was firing on
all cylinders and then theydisappeared.
(09:26):
In the second half Well, thisone they carried over that
negative momentum from thesecond half in Miami into the
first half here at home and thenthey started showing at least
some signs of life.
In the second half, trevorLawrence statistically not a lot
to write home about 14 of 30,220 yards, sacked four times.
Travis Etienne really struggledto get going 13 carries, 52
(09:49):
yards.
He did get into the end zoneonce.
Brian Thomas Jr two catches, 94yards.
It really seems like when youhave what appears to be a rising
star at wide receiver, maybeyou should target him more than
four times.
We'll get into that a littlebit later.
Brenton Strange seemed to be afocal point of the offense
because of the Evan Ingraminjury.
(10:10):
So Eric again mentioned this.
You know, you really got towonder how much of the offense
was going to run through EvanIngram yesterday because Brenton
Strange ended up with sixtargets.
Probably not something theywanted to happen.
Um, so they've a complete lackof ability to shift their game
plan right before the game began.
(10:30):
Gabe Davis three catches, 43yards.
Uh, defensive side of things,monteric Brown led the way with
11 solo tackles and a couple ofuh.
Well, he doesn't have any, hedidn't.
He wasn't credited for anypasses defensed here, uh, but he
did have a couple of reallysolid plays.
As far as on the brown side ofthings we're talking about,
maury cooper really held tonothing.
Three catches at 11 yards bytarik brown was a big part of
(10:51):
that.
Devin lloyd and foyer luaconalso had eight total tackles.
Foyer and josh hines allenshared a sack on the cleveland
quarterback as well.
So, man Jay, there's just somany things that went wrong that
were just ugly and I don't evenknow really where to start.
(11:14):
So I guess we'll, you know what.
I'll take that back.
We'll start in the first half,where we had to watch an offense
that's just anemic, you know,absolutely no rhythm, no sense
of game plan, it seemed, and nosense of urgency.
And I really don't know what todo with that, because if
(11:36):
they're doing something wrong,right, we have something to talk
about.
If something is just bad, ifsomeone is playing just poorly,
we can talk about that.
But when everybody collectivelyjust looks like either they'd
rather be somewhere else or theydon't know where they're
supposed to be, I don't evenknow what to do with that, jay.
So you try and make sense of it.
I guess I'm going to sit backand see if you can see where you
(11:58):
want to start, because I knowyou have notes and I know it's
pretty fresh in your mind.
What in the world is going onhere?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
right, yeah, man, um, so in terms of what happened on
the field, it was just you lookat the offense, they were
lifeless man in the first halfand then in the second half you
can see them get a little bit ofjuice, you can see them catch
their win.
But you know, in this leagueyou have to play four full
quarters to win a game.
But that's what it comes downto in terms of the game itself
is, the offense was lifeless andthey just look out of place and
(12:30):
out of sync and disjoin it thatwhole first half.
Now I attribute me personally,me, and you talked about this
before the podcast.
I think the reason for that andwe've seen this issue with them
in the past too, where theykind of start off sluggish
offensively as well so it's notsomething we're just seeing, you
know, it's not something thatwe're new to, but I think a lot
(12:52):
of it is just the simple factthat when you, when you look at
this offense and it beinglifeless, a lot of it is because
they don't have an identity.
Right, and I know we lost EvanIngram just before the game, but
that shouldn't have necessarilyput the team in a position
where they couldn't score enoughpoints to beat this Browns team
(13:15):
.
They're not the greatestoffensively.
We saw what they did last week.
You watched the Cowboys.
Obviously you watched that game, but it shouldn't have been a
difficult task to score morethan this Browns offense, but
they just simply don't have anidentity to score more than this
Browns offense, but they justsimply don't have an identity.
And I think a big part of thatis because you know, when you
look back at when Doug hadsuccess offensively, his teams
(13:36):
had an identity right.
With Philadelphia in 2017, histeam had an identity, and a big
part of that, too, was he hadsomebody to help him establish
that identity, which was HowieRoseman, who you could argue is
a top five to seven GM somepeople would put him even higher
than that but one of the betterGMs in football to help him
(13:58):
establish that identity right,and I don't think he has that
here in Trent.
So, in a nutshell, he doesn'thave the crutch that he had in
Philadelphia and we've seen itproof that Trent isn't the guy
to help, or at least give Dougthe pieces to establish an
identity, and this is not thisplacing the blame on Doug.
(14:18):
I want them both out of here tobe quite frank with you.
But proof of that is just lookat how they've handled things
with that offensive line Right,and just look at what they put
into it and the resources theyput into it.
Guys like Ezra Cleveland thatthey traded for hasn't worked
out.
(14:38):
They put money into the team interms or the unit in terms of
free agency, with guys likeBrandon Scherf who hasn't worked
out and Mitch Morris who is,who is mid, but he's okay, I
guess.
And then they've also put draftpicks into the team as well.
When you look at Anton Harrison, who is a pretty good tackle
he's been struggling a littlebit lately but he's a pretty
(14:58):
good tackle.
And also they drafted WalkerLittle also his struggle.
They've also tried to resign.
Guys right like that sure fallsin that category.
They altered his contract thisyear and cam robinson, who
looked, didn't look great at allin this last game at all.
So you know, trent, to hiscredit, has tried to fix this
(15:20):
offensive line, which would helpthis team get an identity, but
he's failed massively.
And, that being said, that hastrickled down to Doug Peterson
not being able to establish anidentity because he doesn't have
the physicality on theoffensive line to do so, and
that trickled down to TrevorLawrence and so on and so forth.
So I think me personally and Iwould like to know your thoughts
(15:42):
on the field.
I think that's what it is.
It's just that Doug doesn'thave the crutch he had in
Philadelphia in the GM, that's,you know, above him, and it's a
trickle effect.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
It's affecting the whole team yeah, and you can
certainly say quite a bit aboutthe Eagles in terms of how they
are right now.
But I mean one thing is hasstayed pretty consistent and
they've been competitive andthey've had one of the top
rosters in the NFL in the lastfew years.
Now whether or not that'stranslated to complete success,
(16:17):
that can be debated.
I mean, they went to a SuperBowl.
That certainly cannot beunderstated.
But now there does seem toappear to be some sort of rift
within that front office,although adding Saquon Barkley
has been obviously a you know, ahuge plus for them.
They're playing right nowcurrently beating the Falcons
seven to three in the secondquarter, so we'll see if they
start off two and oh, but no,you're right, doug Peterson
(16:40):
appears to need, from theinformation we have now, he
needs that elite teammate in thefront office to offset his
weaknesses elsewhere, and TrentBaalke is not capable of doing
that.
Or there's some sort ofdisconnect, which is something
we've seen on social mediafloating around here today.
There's some sort ofdisagreement going on in there.
(17:03):
The players look more irritatedthan they have ever been.
I'm actually going to ask youabout that here in just a moment
, jay.
So if Doug Peterson and listen.
We're going to give credit toDoug Peterson for riding the
ship that you know, coming inand inheriting one of the
biggest messes in NFL historythat Urban Meyer left here.
(17:24):
He's going to always get creditfor that.
And what seems to be moreapparent to us and more apparent
to the fan base is now we needsomebody to come in and finish
the job.
Hey, pat on the back.
Great job, doug.
Thanks for coming in and savingus, but we need someone to take
over.
(17:45):
From this point on, what do youget?
What do you make of the?
The body language and thefrustration we've seen from not
only Trevor, but it seems likemaybe even other people in the
locker room.
Travis Etienne seemed prettyirritated, but I can tell you
just as being there in person,jay and I don't know if this
translated on the broadcastyou'll have to let me know if
you noticed anything.
(18:05):
Trevor was pissed off man.
He certainly was mad in thepress conference after the game,
but he definitely was mad onthe field, and I don't know if
he's mad at his teammates or Idon't know if he's mad at his
coaches or a combination of both, but the body language is not
good and I'm not saying this ina negative way.
I'm saying I would also feelthis way if I were Trevor
Lawrence.
So what do you make of what'sgoing on here?
(18:26):
Because it's one thing again.
Make of what's going on here?
Because it's one thing again tohave lack of identity, but lack
of chemistry is something thatwe didn't think was going to be
a problem, especially from whatwe've seen in the offseason and
training camp and the preseason.
You know it's easy for thingsto look good before the games
start counting.
So did any of that translate onthe broadcast when you were
re-watching the game?
Because this is something fromtrev that we have not seen and
(18:49):
you know, eventually, thoselosses and losing, especially
from a guy who is a nationalchampion, who has always been a
winner, those things catch up toyou and those and trevor
certainly not uh, he certainlydoesn't seem to be okay with it
and obviously none of us wouldexpect him to be yeah, well, the
first thing I'll say is thewhole thing that you mentioned
(19:10):
about giving Doug a pat on theback for what he did after the
Urban Meyer situation.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
But like, at the same time, man, that to me doesn't
do much because you came into asituation that was the worst in
the league, right, like prettymuch anybody we hired was going
to be able to look way morecompetent than Urban Meyer.
Now, granted, they went to theplayoffs, so you know, you can't
(19:36):
act like that didn't happen,right, and act as if we weren't,
you know, very excited to seethis team in the playoffs.
But all I'm saying is like, howhard was it to look better than
Urban Meyer, who was probablythe worst head coaching hire in
football history?
Yeah, now, going to what youwere saying about the player
body language, yeah, it didtranslate on the tape as well,
(19:57):
right, because to me it lookedlike in that first half the
offense just woke up out of bedand didn't want to be there,
right, or they were just gettingup out of the bed, whatever the
case may be.
Meanwhile it looked like theBrowns defense was just surging
with energy, right, and ourenergy was not matching the
Browns defense on offense.
(20:19):
Right, it was players that justlook like I don't even want to
say people didn't look like theydidn't know where they were
supposed to be and what have you, but it just looked like they
just weren't willing to matchthe energy from the Browns
defense.
You know it was blocks beingmissed and the Browns just
sniffing out things well beforewe could develop it offensively,
(20:42):
and it just was annoying to me.
I almost wanted to just skip tothe second half because they
look so disjointed and sodisinterested and just so not
willing to match the Brownsenergy on defense, and maybe you
know that is because when youtalk about that and you have
(21:03):
that discussion, you have to askyourself, like why does this
team, why does this unit looklike they don't want to be there
?
And you know, maybe they too arefed up with the offensive
scheme and play calling and whathave you?
You know, um, and again, that'sall the more reason to get Doug
out of there.
And again, I think it should bea package deal.
Trent needs to go with them.
(21:24):
But you know, maybe they too arefrustrated with the schematics,
right, and they feel like theyaren't being put out there to do
what they do best.
I guess you know one thingabout that is you can't hide it
for long, as we saw with the ETNyou know ETN's comments More is
(21:45):
going to come out if that's thecase, and it's going to be an
interesting next few weeksbecause eventually in this day
and age, the players are goingto discuss, uh, to vent their
frustration, as as trevor did,which we already mentioned as
well.
So trevor and etn are alreadytwo who are two leaders for this
team, by the way that have kindof vented their frustration.
(22:07):
But it's not going to stopthere if they can't get this
fixed and we'll see more playerscome out to um also vent their
frustration.
So yeah, I will say that thesepressers not necessarily the
ones that's in front of thewhole media room, but the locker
room pressers and those in themedia room are going to be very
interested in heading forward.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, right, if it's not one of them like Eric
Armstead is one example they'llgo on a friend's podcast, right?
Some one of their formerteammates around the league has
a podcast, because everybodydoes now, Right?
So if any of y'all want to comeon to Touchdown Jaguars podcast
podcast, the invitation isalways open.
(22:50):
So, yeah, you're so right,we're gonna find out.
Listen.
They got the bills on mondaynight football and they have
been a better road team,especially last year.
So we'll see what happens.
And we talked about it in ourpreview episode for the season.
You know they play pretty wellagainst buffalo.
Who knows, they might take thatopportunity to suddenly show up
on a primetime stage.
(23:11):
I don't know that that's goingto happen.
I don't know that.
We feel like that's going tohappen, but we'll see.
You know you're coming back,you do the turnaround and you're
0-3.
All of a sudden and you know,the Texans are just continuing
to run away with the divisionand all of a sudden, like you
said, the chatter outside of thelocker room will get pretty
loud.
So I'm very interested to seehow that goes, because it's not
(23:36):
like they're getting blown outeither, it's just they're losing
in ugly fashion.
Right, like the game, like youcould easily think about the
timeline, jay, where the Jaguarsare actually 2-0 right now.
You know that timeline existssomewhere and it's not that far
from reality.
They lose to the Dolphins bythree.
They lose to the Browns by five.
(23:57):
You know, in a game where theBrowns didn't play particularly
well, they went two for 14 onthird down.
Right, I mean they went threefor three on fourth down, but
still like two for 14 on thirddown in the second half couldn't
really get anything going.
They got five total points andtwo of those points were on that
just awful safety.
And you know, when you lookback on that and you see Mitch
(24:19):
Morse and Ezra Cleveland beingbeat on when they're double
teaming a guy, the interiorlineman, they can't stop the
rush.
Anton Harrison's tripping overTravis Etienne Cam Robinson is
getting bullied by Miles Garrett.
Plenty of instances where hegot away with holding and
Garrett still got home.
(24:40):
You know, it's one thing, again,to be losing, but it's another
to be losing this way when, likeyou said, the team just looks
lost and they're wanderingaimlessly through these games
this way, when, like you said,the team just looks lost and
they're wandering aimlesslythrough these games and there's
not really anything to kind oflook forward to, other than a
couple of things, and one ofthose things certainly is Brian
(25:02):
Thomas Jr.
And I don't know if it's assimple as this, jay, because I
do want to ask you about this.
Somebody had pointed out onSunday, uh, on sunday, malik
neighbors, who was the giantsentire offense had 18 targets,
10 catches.
Brian thomas jr had fourtargets.
Um, obviously he was the onethat helped get the offense
going with trev on the deep balland he had another catch there
(25:26):
on that final drive to try, andyou know, before the Hail Mary
to Bretton Strange, is it assimple as targeting Brian Thomas
Jr more Because he seems to beup for this challenge and even
though, yes, we know that he'sgoing to have growing pains and
I think he did have a drop thatwould have gone for quite a few
yards on a slant, I think it wasin like the third quarter Do
(25:48):
you need to target this guy moreBecause he seems like he's more
than capable?
And what are the few brightspots on your offense right now?
So what's going on?
We talked about scheme, wetalked about play calling.
Why aren't they dialing it upto BTJ more, if you even have a
some sort of if you can evenbreak it down into some sort of
logic as to yeah, well, I wantto talk on something you
(26:15):
mentioned earlier and you weresaying you know, like the losses
aren't like massive losses.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
And you're right, like they aren't massive losses.
And you know, one or two playschanges things right in each of
these games, which is a signthat they have the talent.
Right, they're not talentless.
We've seen that in the past too.
We've seen a bunch of GusBradley teams that couldn't
compete with anybody.
So they're not talentlessless.
(26:45):
That's not bringing silverlining, but what I'm simply
saying is, um, they are a teamthat has the talent, which makes
it even more frustrating.
Right, we actually have some ofthe pieces in place now.
We're not oozing with talentlike the 49ers and some of these
other teams, but that kind ofcorrelates.
Long story short, the reason Imentioned that is that
correlates with exactly whatTravis Etienne said after the
(27:06):
presser I mean after the gamewas to the hell with talent.
We can have all the talent wewant is deeper than that.
Right, you hit the nail on thehead on exactly what he was
talking about when he said thehell with talent.
So it's deeper than that.
You know, you can't likeeverybody in the NFL to some
degree and again, unless you'retalking about one of those Gus
(27:28):
Bradley teams back.
They had some talent to somedegree.
Right again, you know, it'sabout putting people in the best
position to flourish and thrive, which is what you're getting
at with Brian Thomas, and it'sabout executing.
That's another term that TravisEtienne mentioned as well.
So it was a lack of executiongoing on too, despite all of the
(27:49):
talent they had.
It was a lack of execution Interms of what you were saying
about Brian Thomas.
Should they target him more?
What you were saying aboutBrian Thomas, should they target
him more?
I think they they should.
I don't know if that's like.
The answer to all theirproblems, necessarily, is
targeting Brian Thomas, but me,being a fan of slinging the ball
(28:09):
and being a fan of high-poweredoffense, I would love to see
him get the ball way more thanhe's getting and get more
opportunity than he's receiving,because, as you said, he is a
gamer man and he's special.
Like he's coming along wayfaster than any of us thought.
Right, and that's a good thingto see, but too bad, they're not
(28:30):
getting the ball to him.
So that's another reason that,like, I'm frustrated with Doug.
Now what I will say.
We talked about this last weekright for the Miami game.
Phil, I don't know that givingBrian Thomas the ball more in
the second half of last week'sgame would have made a
difference.
I think, ultimately, what madethe difference for that game was
ETN fumbling the ball and themomentum just shift.
(28:52):
But I think if they walk in theend zone and they're in the ETN
run the game, you know.
So it wouldn't have necessarilybeen a need to get Bryant
Thomas more involved, but thatstill doesn't take from the fact
that I would love to see himget the ball more and you know,
as you said, he absolutely isone of the bright spots heading
(29:14):
forward that we can at least ifwe have a crappy season, you
know at least we'll have acrappy season.
You know at least we'll have apro bowl.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
At this rate we'll have a pro bowl caliber receiver
right right and man, he almostbroke that tackle on that deep
ball to get that touchdown aswell.
Um, yeah, so when you talkabout bright spots, at least we
have btj and yeah, it's just.
It's so frustrating to be inthis situation again when, like
(29:41):
you said, the team is talented,they've got playmakers.
I I want to address something.
I want to ask you something, um, that I also saw on twitter is
do you think this team has theability to be more of a vertical
passing team?
Obviously they have travis etndefinitely think he's one of the
best runners in the league.
But do they have the Etienne?
Definitely think he's one ofthe best runners in the league,
but do they have the ability tobe more of a vertical offense?
(30:02):
Because of Gabe Davis, becauseof Brian Thomas Jr, obviously
Evan Ingram when he gets back.
We haven't even discussedwhat's going on with Christian
Kirk or lack thereof, but dothey have that ability?
Do they have the capability toopen up this offense a little
bit more and maybe avoid thoseslow starts where they go run,
(30:22):
run and then you know incomplete, pass three and out?
Do you even think the teampossesses the dna to play that
way?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
well, I think that's what they had in mind, phil.
I mean because you look at youlook at gabe dav, you look at
BTJ like both of these young menhave made a living off of
passes that are deeper than 10yards, right, like that's what
people know them for.
So I think that's what they hadin mind.
(30:50):
They've just been inconsistentwith putting game plans together
where those two areconsistently used, right, right,
and that those two are a partof their identity consistently,
which is just baffling andpuzzling to me, because
obviously you know this offseason for you to get two
players of their caliber, withtheir skill sets, you were
(31:13):
basically all but saying, hey,we need to be more vertical, and
the fact that we aren't morevertical is puzzling.
Again, another reason I won'tdug out of here, man, is because
, obviously, it was clear whatyou guys had in mind, but you're
not falling through with it interms of now that we're here in
the regular season.
And one other thing I wanted totouch on, to feel that just
(31:36):
kind of frustrates me with thisoffense too, man, going back to
that offensive line.
And again, another reason Iwant Doug and Trent Balky out of
here is when you look at thatoffensive line too.
Man, like if you were to lookat Doug's background right and
you were to look at TrentBalkke's background and who they
(31:57):
learned from Right and Itweeted about this earlier Doug
is a disciple of Andy Reid Rightand Trent Baalke is a disciple
of Bill Parcells.
When you look at that part ofwho they are and who they're
supposed to be in their DNA as aGM and as a head coach DNA as a
(32:22):
GM and as a head coach thoseare two trees that believe
deeply in having physicaloffensive lines, and the fact
that we don't have that is justpuzzling to me.
Like if you were to think ofDoug Peterson and you were to
think of Trent Baalke, just ifyou had a clean slate no roster
built, the first thing thatwould come to your mind right,
based on their DNA and who theylearn from and who they're
disciples of you would say, oh,these are two guys you know.
(32:45):
Just based off of their youknow who they work with in the
past they probably want aphysical offensive line and we
have anything but that Right,and I think that's a key reason
of why they don't go to thoseguys on the outside a lot.
It's like.
I don't know if they trusttheir line to be consistent to
do that.
But that's one of the morefrustrating parts about this
whole thing is that Trent andDoug aren't making this team one
(33:12):
that are connected with theirroots, and here we are, as a
result, struggling.
We're at 0-2, and we're aboutto go and face a Bills team on
Monday Night Football whohopefully don't blow us out of
the water.
Hopefully we can get stuffstraight.
But if I told you all I thoughtthat this team could figure it
out and those two could figureit out and come together and
(33:34):
rally the offense, I'd be lyingto you.
Really, at this moment I don'thave confidence that anybody
could put their egos asidewithin that staff and that front
office to make things happen,positive things happen against
the Buffalo Bills.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
And the Bills have started off 2-0.
They just blew out the teamthat you lost to right in week
one in the Miami Dolphins andlisten, that game was well out
of hand before the unfortunateTua injury.
And then they're also comingoff of a long, you know, extra
rest.
You know they haven't played agame in 10 days once Monday
(34:13):
night comes around.
So a Bills team that seems tohave kind of figured it out in
terms of just playing boringfootball right, no, stefan Diggs
, but they just hand the balloff to James Cook and Josh Allen
is Josh Allen when he needs tobe right.
That's a dangerous team.
And you know, I almost went withJosh Allen for my MVP pick, jay
(34:34):
, and for some reason I wentwith Joe Burrow instead.
And here we are now.
So, yeah, man, it is afrustrating time because, like
you said, with other episodesafter losses where we've just
gotten the brakes beaten off ofthem, right, like I said,
there's something you can pointto right, or it's one of those
(34:56):
teams that just isn't talentedenough.
But that's not the case here.
They've got talent all over theroster, but we have a front
office, including the owner, whohave shown consistent
incompetence.
And here we are again comingoff an offseason where you paid
your franchise quarterback, youpaid your franchise pass rusher,
(35:18):
you paid your what, hopefully,is your franchise DB, just not
the starter that you wanted.
Now, to be fair, I think yousaid this, jay.
I think you foretold an 0-2start for the season, if I
recall correctly, and then goinginto Buffalo and then winning
these next two Buffalo and Indy.
So technically they're onschedule for you.
(35:40):
So many things still have timeto turn around, so we'll see.
But right now I'll tell youthis I feel pretty stupid for
saying this team can go 11-6.
I didn't expect them to comeout and look so lifeless.
So maybe that's on me, butaccording to your predictions,
jay, this team's right onschedule.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, they are, and you know, that's the beautiful
thing about football, right?
Things can change in a drop ofa dime.
As I just said, I'm notconfident that it will, because
there's too many like egos inthe way, and just how Doug just
looked in the press conference,like you know, he just don't
belong.
You know what I'm saying.
But things can change, you knowI hopefully they put their egos
(36:26):
aside and they do some soulsearching.
That's what they need to do.
It's a shame we're saying thisweek too, but they do some soul
searching and go to their roots,as I was mentioning, right,
finding out who they really are,going back to what made them
who they are, in terms of, youknow, doug and Trent, and also
to this offense.
Again, like when you look atwhen they did have success, it
(36:49):
was because Trevor Lawrence wasballing out, right, you know.
So that can you know.
That can apply what I just saidto the offense as well.
And them going back to whatthey can do and establishing
their identity.
But time will tell.
If they do that, I would loveto look stupid, you know, and
for them to prove me wrong interms of me saying that I don't
think they can overcome this andwhere they are now.
(37:12):
But a win against the Billscertainly would change things.
Right, like we're having awhole nother conversation if we
win against this Bills team,right, and we're like, okay,
maybe everybody can coexist,maybe with some deep soul
searching, this team can notjust win against a good team but
build from this win against theBills and, you know, make it a
(37:35):
streak, because I mean, afterthat's a, it's room to make a
streak, right.
Yeah, the texans are probably ateam that most people would say
would beat the jaguars, but Idon't think, like you know, the
jaguars play their game and playto their potential.
That is out of the realm ofpossibilities that they can't
beat the texans.
And then you, you go to london,right, which those should be,
(37:58):
should be key word should beright, minus all the turmoil
that's going on.
But the london games, thoseshould be two wins against, you
know, a team that's gonna, twoteams that's gonna have to
travel there, that aren't usedto making that trip with
quarterbacks that aren't great.
So, uh, yeah, we'll see in timewe'll tell um, they can turn it
(38:19):
around, but I don't have a lotof confidence that they will
yeah, right now, you, you justcan't have confidence in them
until they give you a reason tobelieve it's.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
It stinks, man.
It it really does, andhopefully we'll see if we're
having a different conversationnext Tuesday when we record for
the Monday night episode.
But I don't know, man.
Is there anything else you wantto discuss throughout there
from your notes?
I'm sure you'll have a lot forus during the week via your
(38:52):
Twitter page and, of course,through the podcast Twitter page
.
But anything else you want tomention before we get out of
here and focus on Monday NightFootball, because they're going
to need a lot of focus on theirend and a lot of soul-searching
to find their way and win inprimetime Nah, that's it man.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Yeah, I've exerted a lot of energy on this team and
I've got to exert some more intowatching the All-22, so I'm
good.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yeah, we'll see what comes out of that.
And uh, be make sure that youuh you follow us on social media
and keep up with everythingthroughout the week that you
need to know.
You can find everything youneed in the link tree link in
the show notes of this episode.
Uh, personal twitter accountsfor j and I, as well as the
touchdown jaguars twitter pageand the touchdown jagu website.
Make sure you follow that aswell and leave a five-star
(39:43):
review for the podcast onSpotify, apple Podcasts,
wherever you can.
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show.
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Folks, thank you so much forjoining us this week.
Go out and do something thatbrings you joy, that takes your
(40:04):
mind off of the JacksonvilleJaguars.
If you are in the North Floridaarea, I do implore you to come
down to Ocala Comic-Con, down inOcala, florida, about a two
hour drive from Jacksonville,and come say hi to myself as
well as my wait for it.
Podcast co-host Eric Cerna willbe down there hanging out with
everybody and should be a really, really fun time.
So no Jaguar game on Sunday.
(40:25):
So if you want to come down andyou know, and indulge in some
pop culture stuff as well as seesome really great artists and
vendors, that'll be a good placeto spend your weekend.
But, folks, that is my co-host,james Johnson.
I am Phil Smith, and do notforget to tune in to Touchdown
Jaguars for every Jaguartouchdown and we'll see you next
week, duval.
Still running.
And no, that is a no no.
Touchdown Jacksonville.
A hundred and nine yardsIncredible, incredible Play
action Upstairs wide open.
(00:44):
Tommy Bohannon, touchdownJacksonville.
Looking for Jimmy in the endzone.
Touchdown Jaguars.
Touchdown Jaguars.
Touchdown Jaguars.
Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguarspodcast.
Here are your hosts, jamesJohnson and Phil Smith.
(01:06):
Hello everybody, welcome backto the Touchdown Jaguars podcast
.
I am your co-host, phil Smith,and joining me, as always, is
your other co-host, jamesJohnson and Jay.
We are recording this episode alittle bit later than we
typically would.
We're here on Monday night,september 16th, typically.
We of course like to record ourepisodes the evening after the
(01:26):
game, a little bit later than wetypically would.
We're here on Monday night,september 16th.
Typically.
We of course like to record ourepisodes the evening after the
game, but you know we actuallywill benefit a little bit here
from being more than 24 hoursremoved from the game.
So you know we've had someopportunity to take in what the
(01:51):
coaching staff has had to say,take taken what the players have
had to say.
So you know some things wedon't necessarily have full
access to whenever we do recordon Sunday night.
So hopefully that will bring usa little bit more of a fresh
perspective here as we will lookback at the Jaguars week two
loss to the Cleveland Browns intheir home opener, in a game,
jay, where you know, I think wehad this discussion like a
similar discussion last year,where I said, okay, let's talk
everybody down and we mentionedthis last week too, against
(02:12):
Miami.
Let's talk everybody off theledge and calm everybody down.
Well, we're already at thispoint now here in week two where
we're kind of running out ofanswers and running out of ways
to become like a voice of reasonor deliver a sense of calm over
the fan base, because I thinkwe're here as well, I think
(02:35):
we're right there with you guysand just based off of our
discussions in our text threadsand the pre-show and all that
stuff, jay, it's going to beinteresting to see how we can.
I don't want to say spin this,but like, what conclusions have
we come to in regards to thefuture of this team?
Still a lot of games to play,right, we're two games in, we
(02:57):
got 15 left and still plenty oftime to turn things around.
But that same old song anddance is getting old.
I think we're ready for a newsong, a new dance and, more
importantly, some new dancepartners.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
So very excited to have this discussion with you
today, but unfortunately we'llbe discussing yet another loss
yeah, yeah, and, as you said,man, um, it's going to be
interesting to see how weweather this right this time
around.
As you said, a lot of games areleft to be played, but I don't
(03:32):
know if that's necessarily agood thing.
That could mean we got a longseason ahead, which I'll explain
that a little bit later.
We'll get into that part alittle bit later, but I don't
know if that's a good thing inthis case.
We'll get into that part alittle bit later, but I don't
know if that's a good thing inthis case.
Normally it is right, becausethis time last year we at least
were healthy, right, and thisyear we're healthy too for the
(03:54):
most part.
We obviously lost Evan Ingramfor some games or some time, but
there were a lot of things thatwe can look at to make us
believe that things could turnaround.
After Sunday's game, however,man, we are coming off of what
like seven straight losses forthis team.
(04:15):
I believe I have to do myresearch on it.
So that's not good.
And yeah, as you have said,yeah, man, we are at this point
we're running out of answers, soI can't wait to, um, have this
discussion on the game.
I got some interesting stuff inmy notes here.
I didn't get to see the fullgame.
I've seen about four quartersand two minutes of it, so
(04:41):
there's a little bit left that Igotta see because, as you all
saw on Twitter, I was at workand before this episode I did a
speed run, so I typically liketo do a like all 22 look.
But we're gonna make it workwith what I have seen.
I think I've seen enough.
Needless to say, um, when youlook at this game, but uh, yeah,
(05:01):
man, this is going to be a veryinteresting one from us because
, as you said, like we normallyare good with talking people off
the ledge here.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
But uh, after a seven game loss, man, it's getting
really, really interesting inthe wrong ways in the uh
building over there at uh tiaabank road yeah, not only is it
seven losses in a row, jay, thelast win that they did have, if
I remember correctly if I sawthe same statistic that you saw
(05:32):
the quarterback was CJ Beathard.
So Trevor Lawrence himself ison a unprecedented losing streak
for him as far as his career,when you probably look back to,
of course, college definitelynever lost that much, and I'm
sure high school was more of thesame in terms of winning.
So, going to discuss all ofthat here today, I know we're
(05:53):
going to discuss a lot about thegame, but also maybe even what
changes need to be made, and Icannot believe we have to have
this discussion in week two.
Once again, things can turnaround very, very quickly, but I
don't know that we're going tosee that here, based off body
language, based off what peopleare saying, based off things
that we are hearing.
You know it's really tough togo off of.
(06:14):
You know hearsay, especiallywhen it comes to the NFL, but
you can certainly pick up onenergy and pick up on the vibe,
for lack of a better term.
So we're going to get into allof that here in just a moment.
We want to welcome in all of youreturning listeners as well as
brand new listeners to theTouchdown Jaguars podcast.
Make sure you click theLinktree link in the show notes
(06:34):
of this episode.
You'll find everything you needall of our social media pages,
which includes me and Jay'spersonal Twitter account, as
well as the Twitter account forTouchdown Jaguars.
You will also find a link tothe website, touchdownjaguarscom
, where we will intermittentlyput up different articles and
reports.
Well, Jay will get those upthere intermittently.
And, of course, you can goahead and download the SeatGeek
(06:55):
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(07:17):
So make sure you use that promocode Touchdown Jaguars, and we
would very, very much appreciateit.
But, jay, let's go ahead anddive straight into this loss.
It was a very messy and rainyday down at Trevor Bank Field,
which it was known as yesterday,and I can tell you just as
somebody who was there in person, the weather matched the energy
(07:41):
.
It was on and off raining allday.
And I do want to, jay.
I'm just going to throw thisout here because it was probably
one of the even morefrustrating things than the team
that happened at the game.
I don't know, I know you hadmuted our group chat yesterday,
so I don't even know if you sawthis.
But the guy sitting next to meI don't care if I'm, I don't
(08:01):
care if this person finds thisor whatever, because your
behavior is is criminal the guysitting next to me, jay, for
pretty much the entire game andremember it was raining on and
off this entire game had hisshoes off barefoot the entire
game.
Disgusting behavior.
I don't care Like this isn'tthe beach, you know we're not
(08:23):
down at Jack's Beach or somenonsense like that.
You're at a football game,there's other people around you,
keep your freaking shoes on andfreaking is what I edited
myself to say instead of what Iwant to say, which I did say
over on my Twitter account Setthe whole tone.
I think, jay, I'm going toblame that guy for exposing his
(08:44):
disgusting feet and making mesit next to him for the entire
game.
I'm going to blame the loss onhim.
I hope I don't see him at allfor the remainder of the season.
But as far as the football goes, the Jaguars lost 18-13 to the
Cleveland Browns, who were alsocoming in with a whole lot of
(09:05):
questions when it comes to theirteam, especially when it came
to their quarterback right, whoI will not mention by name.
But yeah, it was a tale of twohalves once again and a shout
out to our buddy Eric, who kindof mentioned this like it was
kind of a reverse of whathappened in Miami last week.
So in the first halfJacksonvilleville was firing on
all cylinders and then theydisappeared.
(09:26):
In the second half Well, thisone they carried over that
negative momentum from thesecond half in Miami into the
first half here at home and thenthey started showing at least
some signs of life.
In the second half, trevorLawrence statistically not a lot
to write home about 14 of 30,220 yards, sacked four times.
Travis Etienne really struggledto get going 13 carries, 52
(09:49):
yards.
He did get into the end zoneonce.
Brian Thomas Jr two catches, 94yards.
It really seems like when youhave what appears to be a rising
star at wide receiver, maybeyou should target him more than
four times.
We'll get into that a littlebit later.
Brenton Strange seemed to be afocal point of the offense
because of the Evan Ingraminjury.
(10:10):
So Eric again mentioned this.
You know, you really got towonder how much of the offense
was going to run through EvanIngram yesterday because Brenton
Strange ended up with sixtargets.
Probably not something theywanted to happen.
Um, so they've a complete lackof ability to shift their game
plan right before the game began.
(10:30):
Gabe Davis three catches, 43yards.
Uh, defensive side of things,monteric Brown led the way with
11 solo tackles and a couple ofuh.
Well, he doesn't have any, hedidn't.
He wasn't credited for anypasses defensed here, uh, but he
did have a couple of reallysolid plays.
As far as on the brown side ofthings we're talking about,
maury cooper really held tonothing.
Three catches at 11 yards bytarik brown was a big part of
(10:51):
that.
Devin lloyd and foyer luaconalso had eight total tackles.
Foyer and josh hines allenshared a sack on the cleveland
quarterback as well.
So, man Jay, there's just somany things that went wrong that
were just ugly and I don't evenknow really where to start.
(11:14):
So I guess we'll, you know what.
I'll take that back.
We'll start in the first half,where we had to watch an offense
that's just anemic, you know,absolutely no rhythm, no sense
of game plan, it seemed, and nosense of urgency.
And I really don't know what todo with that, because if
(11:36):
they're doing something wrong,right, we have something to talk
about.
If something is just bad, ifsomeone is playing just poorly,
we can talk about that.
But when everybody collectivelyjust looks like either they'd
rather be somewhere else or theydon't know where they're
supposed to be, I don't evenknow what to do with that, jay.
So you try and make sense of it.
I guess I'm going to sit backand see if you can see where you
(11:58):
want to start, because I knowyou have notes and I know it's
pretty fresh in your mind.
What in the world is going onhere?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
right, yeah, man, um, so in terms of what happened on
the field, it was just you lookat the offense, they were
lifeless man in the first halfand then in the second half you
can see them get a little bit ofjuice, you can see them catch
their win.
But you know, in this leagueyou have to play four full
quarters to win a game.
But that's what it comes downto in terms of the game itself
is, the offense was lifeless andthey just look out of place and
(12:30):
out of sync and disjoin it thatwhole first half.
Now I attribute me personally,me, and you talked about this
before the podcast.
I think the reason for that andwe've seen this issue with them
in the past too, where theykind of start off sluggish
offensively as well so it's notsomething we're just seeing, you
know, it's not something thatwe're new to, but I think a lot
(12:52):
of it is just the simple factthat when you, when you look at
this offense and it beinglifeless, a lot of it is because
they don't have an identity.
Right, and I know we lost EvanIngram just before the game, but
that shouldn't have necessarilyput the team in a position
where they couldn't score enoughpoints to beat this Browns team
(13:15):
.
They're not the greatestoffensively.
We saw what they did last week.
You watched the Cowboys.
Obviously you watched that game, but it shouldn't have been a
difficult task to score morethan this Browns offense, but
they just simply don't have anidentity to score more than this
Browns offense, but they justsimply don't have an identity.
And I think a big part of thatis because you know, when you
look back at when Doug hadsuccess offensively, his teams
(13:36):
had an identity right.
With Philadelphia in 2017, histeam had an identity, and a big
part of that, too, was he hadsomebody to help him establish
that identity, which was HowieRoseman, who you could argue is
a top five to seven GM somepeople would put him even higher
than that but one of the betterGMs in football to help him
(13:58):
establish that identity right,and I don't think he has that
here in Trent.
So, in a nutshell, he doesn'thave the crutch that he had in
Philadelphia and we've seen itproof that Trent isn't the guy
to help, or at least give Dougthe pieces to establish an
identity, and this is not thisplacing the blame on Doug.
(14:18):
I want them both out of here tobe quite frank with you.
But proof of that is just lookat how they've handled things
with that offensive line Right,and just look at what they put
into it and the resources theyput into it.
Guys like Ezra Cleveland thatthey traded for hasn't worked
out.
(14:38):
They put money into the team interms or the unit in terms of
free agency, with guys likeBrandon Scherf who hasn't worked
out and Mitch Morris who is,who is mid, but he's okay, I
guess.
And then they've also put draftpicks into the team as well.
When you look at Anton Harrison, who is a pretty good tackle
he's been struggling a littlebit lately but he's a pretty
(14:58):
good tackle.
And also they drafted WalkerLittle also his struggle.
They've also tried to resign.
Guys right like that sure fallsin that category.
They altered his contract thisyear and cam robinson, who
looked, didn't look great at allin this last game at all.
So you know, trent, to hiscredit, has tried to fix this
(15:20):
offensive line, which would helpthis team get an identity, but
he's failed massively.
And, that being said, that hastrickled down to Doug Peterson
not being able to establish anidentity because he doesn't have
the physicality on theoffensive line to do so, and
that trickled down to TrevorLawrence and so on and so forth.
So I think me personally and Iwould like to know your thoughts
(15:42):
on the field.
I think that's what it is.
It's just that Doug doesn'thave the crutch he had in
Philadelphia in the GM, that's,you know, above him, and it's a
trickle effect.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
It's affecting the whole team yeah, and you can
certainly say quite a bit aboutthe Eagles in terms of how they
are right now.
But I mean one thing is hasstayed pretty consistent and
they've been competitive andthey've had one of the top
rosters in the NFL in the lastfew years.
Now whether or not that'stranslated to complete success,
(16:17):
that can be debated.
I mean, they went to a SuperBowl.
That certainly cannot beunderstated.
But now there does seem toappear to be some sort of rift
within that front office,although adding Saquon Barkley
has been obviously a you know, ahuge plus for them.
They're playing right nowcurrently beating the Falcons
seven to three in the secondquarter, so we'll see if they
start off two and oh, but no,you're right, doug Peterson
(16:40):
appears to need, from theinformation we have now, he
needs that elite teammate in thefront office to offset his
weaknesses elsewhere, and TrentBaalke is not capable of doing
that.
Or there's some sort ofdisconnect, which is something
we've seen on social mediafloating around here today.
There's some sort ofdisagreement going on in there.
(17:03):
The players look more irritatedthan they have ever been.
I'm actually going to ask youabout that here in just a moment
, jay.
So if Doug Peterson and listen.
We're going to give credit toDoug Peterson for riding the
ship that you know, coming inand inheriting one of the
biggest messes in NFL historythat Urban Meyer left here.
(17:24):
He's going to always get creditfor that.
And what seems to be moreapparent to us and more apparent
to the fan base is now we needsomebody to come in and finish
the job.
Hey, pat on the back.
Great job, doug.
Thanks for coming in and savingus, but we need someone to take
over.
(17:45):
From this point on, what do youget?
What do you make of the?
The body language and thefrustration we've seen from not
only Trevor, but it seems likemaybe even other people in the
locker room.
Travis Etienne seemed prettyirritated, but I can tell you
just as being there in person,jay and I don't know if this
translated on the broadcastyou'll have to let me know if
you noticed anything.
(18:05):
Trevor was pissed off man.
He certainly was mad in thepress conference after the game,
but he definitely was mad onthe field, and I don't know if
he's mad at his teammates or Idon't know if he's mad at his
coaches or a combination of both, but the body language is not
good and I'm not saying this ina negative way.
I'm saying I would also feelthis way if I were Trevor
Lawrence.
So what do you make of what'sgoing on here?
(18:26):
Because it's one thing again.
Make of what's going on here?
Because it's one thing again tohave lack of identity, but lack
of chemistry is something thatwe didn't think was going to be
a problem, especially from whatwe've seen in the offseason and
training camp and the preseason.
You know it's easy for thingsto look good before the games
start counting.
So did any of that translate onthe broadcast when you were
re-watching the game?
Because this is something fromtrev that we have not seen and
(18:49):
you know, eventually, thoselosses and losing, especially
from a guy who is a nationalchampion, who has always been a
winner, those things catch up toyou and those and trevor
certainly not uh, he certainlydoesn't seem to be okay with it
and obviously none of us wouldexpect him to be yeah, well, the
first thing I'll say is thewhole thing that you mentioned
(19:10):
about giving Doug a pat on theback for what he did after the
Urban Meyer situation.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
But like, at the same time, man, that to me doesn't
do much because you came into asituation that was the worst in
the league, right, like prettymuch anybody we hired was going
to be able to look way morecompetent than Urban Meyer.
Now, granted, they went to theplayoffs, so you know, you can't
(19:36):
act like that didn't happen,right, and act as if we weren't,
you know, very excited to seethis team in the playoffs.
But all I'm saying is like, howhard was it to look better than
Urban Meyer, who was probablythe worst head coaching hire in
football history?
Yeah, now, going to what youwere saying about the player
body language, yeah, it didtranslate on the tape as well,
(19:57):
right, because to me it lookedlike in that first half the
offense just woke up out of bedand didn't want to be there,
right, or they were just gettingup out of the bed, whatever the
case may be.
Meanwhile it looked like theBrowns defense was just surging
with energy, right, and ourenergy was not matching the
Browns defense on offense.
(20:19):
Right, it was players that justlook like I don't even want to
say people didn't look like theydidn't know where they were
supposed to be and what have you, but it just looked like they
just weren't willing to matchthe energy from the Browns
defense.
You know it was blocks beingmissed and the Browns just
sniffing out things well beforewe could develop it offensively,
(20:42):
and it just was annoying to me.
I almost wanted to just skip tothe second half because they
look so disjointed and sodisinterested and just so not
willing to match the Brownsenergy on defense, and maybe you
know that is because when youtalk about that and you have
(21:03):
that discussion, you have to askyourself, like why does this
team, why does this unit looklike they don't want to be there
?
And you know, maybe they too arefed up with the offensive
scheme and play calling and whathave you?
You know, um, and again, that'sall the more reason to get Doug
out of there.
And again, I think it should bea package deal.
Trent needs to go with them.
(21:24):
But you know, maybe they too arefrustrated with the schematics,
right, and they feel like theyaren't being put out there to do
what they do best.
I guess you know one thingabout that is you can't hide it
for long, as we saw with the ETNyou know ETN's comments More is
(21:45):
going to come out if that's thecase, and it's going to be an
interesting next few weeksbecause eventually in this day
and age, the players are goingto discuss, uh, to vent their
frustration, as as trevor did,which we already mentioned as
well.
So trevor and etn are alreadytwo who are two leaders for this
team, by the way that have kindof vented their frustration.
(22:07):
But it's not going to stopthere if they can't get this
fixed and we'll see more playerscome out to um also vent their
frustration.
So yeah, I will say that thesepressers not necessarily the
ones that's in front of thewhole media room, but the locker
room pressers and those in themedia room are going to be very
interested in heading forward.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, right, if it's not one of them like Eric
Armstead is one example they'llgo on a friend's podcast, right?
Some one of their formerteammates around the league has
a podcast, because everybodydoes now, Right?
So if any of y'all want to comeon to Touchdown Jaguars podcast
podcast, the invitation isalways open.
(22:50):
So, yeah, you're so right,we're gonna find out.
Listen.
They got the bills on mondaynight football and they have
been a better road team,especially last year.
So we'll see what happens.
And we talked about it in ourpreview episode for the season.
You know they play pretty wellagainst buffalo.
Who knows, they might take thatopportunity to suddenly show up
on a primetime stage.
(23:11):
I don't know that that's goingto happen.
I don't know that.
We feel like that's going tohappen, but we'll see.
You know you're coming back,you do the turnaround and you're
0-3.
All of a sudden and you know,the Texans are just continuing
to run away with the divisionand all of a sudden, like you
said, the chatter outside of thelocker room will get pretty
loud.
So I'm very interested to seehow that goes, because it's not
(23:36):
like they're getting blown outeither, it's just they're losing
in ugly fashion.
Right, like the game, like youcould easily think about the
timeline, jay, where the Jaguarsare actually 2-0 right now.
You know that timeline existssomewhere and it's not that far
from reality.
They lose to the Dolphins bythree.
They lose to the Browns by five.
(23:57):
You know, in a game where theBrowns didn't play particularly
well, they went two for 14 onthird down.
Right, I mean they went threefor three on fourth down, but
still like two for 14 on thirddown in the second half couldn't
really get anything going.
They got five total points andtwo of those points were on that
just awful safety.
And you know, when you lookback on that and you see Mitch
(24:19):
Morse and Ezra Cleveland beingbeat on when they're double
teaming a guy, the interiorlineman, they can't stop the
rush.
Anton Harrison's tripping overTravis Etienne Cam Robinson is
getting bullied by Miles Garrett.
Plenty of instances where hegot away with holding and
Garrett still got home.
(24:40):
You know, it's one thing, again,to be losing, but it's another
to be losing this way when, likeyou said, the team just looks
lost and they're wanderingaimlessly through these games
this way, when, like you said,the team just looks lost and
they're wandering aimlesslythrough these games and there's
not really anything to kind oflook forward to, other than a
couple of things, and one ofthose things certainly is Brian
(25:02):
Thomas Jr.
And I don't know if it's assimple as this, jay, because I
do want to ask you about this.
Somebody had pointed out onSunday, uh, on sunday, malik
neighbors, who was the giantsentire offense had 18 targets,
10 catches.
Brian thomas jr had fourtargets.
Um, obviously he was the onethat helped get the offense
going with trev on the deep balland he had another catch there
(25:26):
on that final drive to try, andyou know, before the Hail Mary
to Bretton Strange, is it assimple as targeting Brian Thomas
Jr more Because he seems to beup for this challenge and even
though, yes, we know that he'sgoing to have growing pains and
I think he did have a drop thatwould have gone for quite a few
yards on a slant, I think it wasin like the third quarter Do
(25:48):
you need to target this guy moreBecause he seems like he's more
than capable?
And what are the few brightspots on your offense right now?
So what's going on?
We talked about scheme, wetalked about play calling.
Why aren't they dialing it upto BTJ more, if you even have a
some sort of if you can evenbreak it down into some sort of
logic as to yeah, well, I wantto talk on something you
(26:15):
mentioned earlier and you weresaying you know, like the losses
aren't like massive losses.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
And you're right, like they aren't massive losses.
And you know, one or two playschanges things right in each of
these games, which is a signthat they have the talent.
Right, they're not talentless.
We've seen that in the past too.
We've seen a bunch of GusBradley teams that couldn't
compete with anybody.
So they're not talentlessless.
(26:45):
That's not bringing silverlining, but what I'm simply
saying is, um, they are a teamthat has the talent, which makes
it even more frustrating.
Right, we actually have some ofthe pieces in place now.
We're not oozing with talentlike the 49ers and some of these
other teams, but that kind ofcorrelates.
Long story short, the reason Imentioned that is that
correlates with exactly whatTravis Etienne said after the
(27:06):
presser I mean after the gamewas to the hell with talent.
We can have all the talent wewant is deeper than that.
Right, you hit the nail on thehead on exactly what he was
talking about when he said thehell with talent.
So it's deeper than that.
You know, you can't likeeverybody in the NFL to some
degree and again, unless you'retalking about one of those Gus
(27:28):
Bradley teams back.
They had some talent to somedegree.
Right again, you know, it'sabout putting people in the best
position to flourish and thrive, which is what you're getting
at with Brian Thomas, and it'sabout executing.
That's another term that TravisEtienne mentioned as well.
So it was a lack of executiongoing on too, despite all of the
(27:49):
talent they had.
It was a lack of execution Interms of what you were saying
about Brian Thomas.
Should they target him more?
What you were saying aboutBrian Thomas, should they target
him more?
I think they they should.
I don't know if that's like.
The answer to all theirproblems, necessarily, is
targeting Brian Thomas, but me,being a fan of slinging the ball
(28:09):
and being a fan of high-poweredoffense, I would love to see
him get the ball way more thanhe's getting and get more
opportunity than he's receiving,because, as you said, he is a
gamer man and he's special.
Like he's coming along wayfaster than any of us thought.
Right, and that's a good thingto see, but too bad, they're not
(28:30):
getting the ball to him.
So that's another reason that,like, I'm frustrated with Doug.
Now what I will say.
We talked about this last weekright for the Miami game.
Phil, I don't know that givingBrian Thomas the ball more in
the second half of last week'sgame would have made a
difference.
I think, ultimately, what madethe difference for that game was
ETN fumbling the ball and themomentum just shift.
(28:52):
But I think if they walk in theend zone and they're in the ETN
run the game, you know.
So it wouldn't have necessarilybeen a need to get Bryant
Thomas more involved, but thatstill doesn't take from the fact
that I would love to see himget the ball more and you know,
as you said, he absolutely isone of the bright spots heading
(29:14):
forward that we can at least ifwe have a crappy season, you
know at least we'll have acrappy season.
You know at least we'll have apro bowl.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
At this rate we'll have a pro bowl caliber receiver
right right and man, he almostbroke that tackle on that deep
ball to get that touchdown aswell.
Um, yeah, so when you talkabout bright spots, at least we
have btj and yeah, it's just.
It's so frustrating to be inthis situation again when, like
(29:41):
you said, the team is talented,they've got playmakers.
I I want to address something.
I want to ask you something, um, that I also saw on twitter is
do you think this team has theability to be more of a vertical
passing team?
Obviously they have travis etndefinitely think he's one of the
best runners in the league.
But do they have the Etienne?
Definitely think he's one ofthe best runners in the league,
but do they have the ability tobe more of a vertical offense?
(30:02):
Because of Gabe Davis, becauseof Brian Thomas Jr, obviously
Evan Ingram when he gets back.
We haven't even discussedwhat's going on with Christian
Kirk or lack thereof, but dothey have that ability?
Do they have the capability toopen up this offense a little
bit more and maybe avoid thoseslow starts where they go run,
(30:22):
run and then you know incomplete, pass three and out?
Do you even think the teampossesses the dna to play that
way?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
well, I think that's what they had in mind, phil.
I mean because you look at youlook at gabe dav, you look at
BTJ like both of these young menhave made a living off of
passes that are deeper than 10yards, right, like that's what
people know them for.
So I think that's what they hadin mind.
(30:50):
They've just been inconsistentwith putting game plans together
where those two areconsistently used, right, right,
and that those two are a partof their identity consistently,
which is just baffling andpuzzling to me, because
obviously you know this offseason for you to get two
players of their caliber, withtheir skill sets, you were
(31:13):
basically all but saying, hey,we need to be more vertical, and
the fact that we aren't morevertical is puzzling.
Again, another reason I won'tdug out of here, man, is because
, obviously, it was clear whatyou guys had in mind, but you're
not falling through with it interms of now that we're here in
the regular season.
And one other thing I wanted totouch on, to feel that just
(31:36):
kind of frustrates me with thisoffense too, man, going back to
that offensive line.
And again, another reason Iwant Doug and Trent Balky out of
here is when you look at thatoffensive line too.
Man, like if you were to lookat Doug's background right and
you were to look at TrentBalkke's background and who they
(31:57):
learned from Right and Itweeted about this earlier Doug
is a disciple of Andy Reid Rightand Trent Baalke is a disciple
of Bill Parcells.
When you look at that part ofwho they are and who they're
supposed to be in their DNA as aGM and as a head coach DNA as a
(32:22):
GM and as a head coach thoseare two trees that believe
deeply in having physicaloffensive lines, and the fact
that we don't have that is justpuzzling to me.
Like if you were to think ofDoug Peterson and you were to
think of Trent Baalke, just ifyou had a clean slate no roster
built, the first thing thatwould come to your mind right,
based on their DNA and who theylearn from and who they're
disciples of you would say, oh,these are two guys you know.
(32:45):
Just based off of their youknow who they work with in the
past they probably want aphysical offensive line and we
have anything but that Right,and I think that's a key reason
of why they don't go to thoseguys on the outside a lot.
It's like.
I don't know if they trusttheir line to be consistent to
do that.
But that's one of the morefrustrating parts about this
whole thing is that Trent andDoug aren't making this team one
(33:12):
that are connected with theirroots, and here we are, as a
result, struggling.
We're at 0-2, and we're aboutto go and face a Bills team on
Monday Night Football whohopefully don't blow us out of
the water.
Hopefully we can get stuffstraight.
But if I told you all I thoughtthat this team could figure it
out and those two could figureit out and come together and
(33:34):
rally the offense, I'd be lyingto you.
Really, at this moment I don'thave confidence that anybody
could put their egos asidewithin that staff and that front
office to make things happen,positive things happen against
the Buffalo Bills.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
And the Bills have started off 2-0.
They just blew out the teamthat you lost to right in week
one in the Miami Dolphins andlisten, that game was well out
of hand before the unfortunateTua injury.
And then they're also comingoff of a long, you know, extra
rest.
You know they haven't played agame in 10 days once Monday
(34:13):
night comes around.
So a Bills team that seems tohave kind of figured it out in
terms of just playing boringfootball right, no, stefan Diggs
, but they just hand the balloff to James Cook and Josh Allen
is Josh Allen when he needs tobe right.
That's a dangerous team.
And you know, I almost went withJosh Allen for my MVP pick, jay
(34:34):
, and for some reason I wentwith Joe Burrow instead.
And here we are now.
So, yeah, man, it is afrustrating time because, like
you said, with other episodesafter losses where we've just
gotten the brakes beaten off ofthem, right, like I said,
there's something you can pointto right, or it's one of those
(34:56):
teams that just isn't talentedenough.
But that's not the case here.
They've got talent all over theroster, but we have a front
office, including the owner, whohave shown consistent
incompetence.
And here we are again comingoff an offseason where you paid
your franchise quarterback, youpaid your franchise pass rusher,
(35:18):
you paid your what, hopefully,is your franchise DB, just not
the starter that you wanted.
Now, to be fair, I think yousaid this, jay.
I think you foretold an 0-2start for the season, if I
recall correctly, and then goinginto Buffalo and then winning
these next two Buffalo and Indy.
So technically they're onschedule for you.
(35:40):
So many things still have timeto turn around, so we'll see.
But right now I'll tell youthis I feel pretty stupid for
saying this team can go 11-6.
I didn't expect them to comeout and look so lifeless.
So maybe that's on me, butaccording to your predictions,
jay, this team's right onschedule.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, they are, and you know, that's the beautiful
thing about football, right?
Things can change in a drop ofa dime.
As I just said, I'm notconfident that it will, because
there's too many like egos inthe way, and just how Doug just
looked in the press conference,like you know, he just don't
belong.
You know what I'm saying.
But things can change, you knowI hopefully they put their egos
(36:26):
aside and they do some soulsearching.
That's what they need to do.
It's a shame we're saying thisweek too, but they do some soul
searching and go to their roots,as I was mentioning, right,
finding out who they really are,going back to what made them
who they are, in terms of, youknow, doug and Trent, and also
to this offense.
Again, like when you look atwhen they did have success, it
(36:49):
was because Trevor Lawrence wasballing out, right, you know.
So that can you know.
That can apply what I just saidto the offense as well.
And them going back to whatthey can do and establishing
their identity.
But time will tell.
If they do that, I would loveto look stupid, you know, and
for them to prove me wrong interms of me saying that I don't
think they can overcome this andwhere they are now.
(37:12):
But a win against the Billscertainly would change things.
Right, like we're having awhole nother conversation if we
win against this Bills team,right, and we're like, okay,
maybe everybody can coexist,maybe with some deep soul
searching, this team can notjust win against a good team but
build from this win against theBills and, you know, make it a
(37:35):
streak, because I mean, afterthat's a, it's room to make a
streak, right.
Yeah, the texans are probably ateam that most people would say
would beat the jaguars, but Idon't think, like you know, the
jaguars play their game and playto their potential.
That is out of the realm ofpossibilities that they can't
beat the texans.
And then you, you go to london,right, which those should be,
(37:58):
should be key word should beright, minus all the turmoil
that's going on.
But the london games, thoseshould be two wins against, you
know, a team that's gonna, twoteams that's gonna have to
travel there, that aren't usedto making that trip with
quarterbacks that aren't great.
So, uh, yeah, we'll see in timewe'll tell um, they can turn it
(38:19):
around, but I don't have a lotof confidence that they will
yeah, right now, you, you justcan't have confidence in them
until they give you a reason tobelieve it's.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
It stinks, man.
It it really does, andhopefully we'll see if we're
having a different conversationnext Tuesday when we record for
the Monday night episode.
But I don't know, man.
Is there anything else you wantto discuss throughout there
from your notes?
I'm sure you'll have a lot forus during the week via your
(38:52):
Twitter page and, of course,through the podcast Twitter page
.
But anything else you want tomention before we get out of
here and focus on Monday NightFootball, because they're going
to need a lot of focus on theirend and a lot of soul-searching
to find their way and win inprimetime Nah, that's it man.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Yeah, I've exerted a lot of energy on this team and
I've got to exert some more intowatching the All-22, so I'm
good.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yeah, we'll see what comes out of that.
And uh, be make sure that youuh you follow us on social media
and keep up with everythingthroughout the week that you
need to know.
You can find everything youneed in the link tree link in
the show notes of this episode.
Uh, personal twitter accountsfor j and I, as well as the
touchdown jaguars twitter pageand the touchdown jagu website.
Make sure you follow that aswell and leave a five-star
(39:43):
review for the podcast onSpotify, apple Podcasts,
wherever you can.
All of that is incrediblybeneficial for the health of the
show.
And, of course, make sure youdownload the SeatGeek app.
Use that promo code TouchdownJaguars.
Save yourself $20 on your firstSeatGeek purchase.
Folks, thank you so much forjoining us this week.
Go out and do something thatbrings you joy, that takes your
(40:04):
mind off of the JacksonvilleJaguars.
If you are in the North Floridaarea, I do implore you to come
down to Ocala Comic-Con, down inOcala, florida, about a two
hour drive from Jacksonville,and come say hi to myself as
well as my wait for it.
Podcast co-host Eric Cerna willbe down there hanging out with
everybody and should be a really, really fun time.
So no Jaguar game on Sunday.
(40:25):
So if you want to come down andyou know, and indulge in some
pop culture stuff as well as seesome really great artists and
vendors, that'll be a good placeto spend your weekend.
But, folks, that is my co-host,james Johnson.
I am Phil Smith, and do notforget to tune in to Touchdown
Jaguars for every Jaguartouchdown and we'll see you next
week, duval.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!