Episode 97: Texans/Jaguars Week 4 Analysis - Head Coaching Candidates for the Future - Touchdown Jaguars!

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast.
Here are your hosts, jamesJohnson and Phil Smith.
Hey, everyone, welcome back tothe Touchdown Jaguars podcast.
I am your co-host, phil Smith,and joining me, as always, is

(00:41):
your other co-host, jamesJohnson, and Jay.
We are sitting here on theevening of September 29th, a few
hours removed from theJacksonville Jaguars falling to
0-4 in the season, after yetanother loss to the Houston
Texans and a game that was inhand, a game that they had the
lead in the fourth quarter, amajority of the fourth quarter
actually, and, as they say, theysnatched defeat from the jaws

(01:04):
of victory.
And, jay, I think it was, maybeit's like a little bit over a
month ago, we sat here in thesechairs that we're sitting in now
and we predicted and hoped that, heading into next week's game
against the Indianapolis Coltsat home the homecoming game you
know they'll be decked out inthose fresh throwback uniforms.
There'll be throwbackmerchandise in the crowd,

(01:27):
everybody will be celebratingthe Jaguars legends that will be
on hand, hoping that they wouldbe bare minimum two and two
heading into that game.
Instead, we are still windlessheading into the month of
October, which is something wecertainly did not foresee.
But maybe we should have.
I don't know, maybe the signswere all there and once again

(01:50):
fell into the optimism trap thatis the Jacksonville Jaguars.
So, man, well, we're going to,of course, discuss the game
which, jay, you haven't seen allof.
I know you saw bits and pieces.
I was able to watch the entiregame here today and then we're
going to continue the discussionfrom last week where we talked
about general managers.
We're also going to talk aboutcoaches here today, as you can

(02:10):
probably see in the title ofthis episode.
And, yeah, I'm just sittinghere with I don't know apathy, I
guess, just not really knowinghow to feel.
I mean, the head coach doesn'treally seem to care, so if he
doesn't give a crap, then whyshould we?
We're definitely talking aboutthe current head coach of the
Jacksonville Jaguars and maybehow long we think he should

(02:31):
stick around.
But, yeah, jay, I'm interestedto see what kind of energy we
bring here today, because, yeah,I'm just at a loss of words at
this point Again, heading intoOctober, still winless,
certainly not where we thoughtwe would be.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, absolutely not where we thought we would be.
Yeah, absolutely not where wethought we'd be.
Even if you like the biggestcynic, right, you know, maybe
you could say we were a littlebit more optimistic than others.
But even if you were thebiggest cynic, right, you were
expecting a win or two at thispoint, right?
And yeah, yeah, someinteresting postgame activities
from Doug Peterson there, who isvisibly frustrated and feels

(03:13):
like you know he's he's kind ofthrowing people under the bus.
It's funny, you know what, phil,because I was saying this for
the week.
One loss, right, is that?
You know basically what he said.
You know the coaches can't goout there and make the plays for
them, but that does not meanthe coaches say it, right,
football is the ultimate game ofaccountability.

(03:35):
Ij, the podcaster can say that,right, because that's what
we're supposed to do here is becritical.
But, peterson, the coach can'tsay that publicly, right, you,
you go through that discussionin practice and you know all of
that good stuff, but to say itpublicly feels like you're
throwing your team under the bus.

(03:55):
And how do they respond to that?
Right?
You know I'm saying that isbound to cause some friction,
probably, if there isn't alreadyfriction within the locker room
, but you know how are theysupposed to respond to that and
how are they supposed to playfor you as a coach after
comments like that?
You know, it was interesting,to say the least.

(04:19):
But all of that said, we willget into some candidates that
would probably handle thissituation a little better than
Doug has.
Right, I will talk about that.
And, as you said, um, you knowyou did get to see the game, as
I didn't, I was at work.
But, uh, we'll go into a littlebit of the game.
I guess we'll follow the trendof last week, just kind of

(04:40):
briefly going into the game,because, like I mean, hey, what
can you say at this point?
Um, and then, as you said, man,we'll look to the future and
and getting a coach in here thatknows what to do way better
than Doug Peterson does.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
so let's get to it yeah, which shouldn't be that
hard at this point in terms ofhow Doug has come.
Just I don't, I don't even knowwhat to say about the state of
his, his attitude, the way thathe's feeling and you know
everyone's upset after a loss.
There is nothing wrong withthat and things obviously

(05:14):
haven't gone the way that any ofus thought they were going to
go, and you are allowed to beirritated.
But yeah, like you said, jay,there are just some things you
can think them when you're inthat kind of spotlight, but you
certainly cannot say them.
And Doug Peterson is out heregiving us absolute nonsense, and
we'll talk about that here injust a moment.
A shout out to my co-host fromthe Wait For it podcast, eric

(05:35):
Cerna, tagging us on a questionfrom Doug's presser today post
game.
And yeah, we'll talk about allthat here in just a moment
welcome in, yeah real quick,something real quick, man.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Uh, I want to hear your like, your thoughts on this
, uh, as well.
But, like, if you're doug, like, also part of this is, as you
said you're, it's okay to befrustrated we all are and you
know who would be morefrustrated than the head coach,
right?
The guy that spent all of thistime and effort into offensive

(06:08):
scheming and training camp andall of that, and it's just not
working out.
But one thing that came to mindthat I wanted to ask you too,
though, phil, if you're Doug,you got to be thinking about the
future in terms of, you know,finding work elsewhere, right, a
lot of times, what will happenis these coaches they'll end up.
You know finding work elsewhere, right, a lot of times, what
will happen is these coaches,they'll end up.

(06:28):
You know, getting fired andbeing a coordinator somewhere or
a consultant or something.
But, like, if you're Doug, thatprobably wasn't the smartest
thing to do, because you knowyou look at who he has ties to
and where he could go nextprobably the Chiefs, right,
being an Andy Reid disciple.
You know how does Andy and theother organizations look at that
and say like, hmm, like, do wewant to bring him back into the

(06:49):
mix.
You know what I'm saying.
So, like I wanted to ask you,like, is that something that you
you would have done, knowingthat, and not only that, but do
you think, like just how Doughas handled things in general
here, especially with the losing, do you think that we obviously
know he probably won't be ahead coach again, but do you

(07:11):
think, like this is going tohurt him in terms of looking for
work as a coordinator or withanother organization?

Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah, I think it could, because you know this is
now.
This will now be two places.
It could, because you know thisis now.
This will now be two placeswhere, for whatever reason, he
is just committed to his bestfriend, press taylor and this is
something that showed itself inphiladelphia and he didn't win
a super bowl here.
Yeah, he took us to thatamazing playoff run, but that

(07:39):
ain't no super bowl, right, andthey kicked him out of town
after winning a Super Bowl.
So if it's not Andy Reid andobviously you know they're
pretty set they're doing justfine without Doug Peterson right
now.
So why would you know, andy?

(08:00):
You know maybe something likeyou said, like a coordinator,
you know, or something like that, and I don't see because I
don't see Matt Nagy gettinganother head coaching job
elsewhere either.
So you know he's not going tobe like offensive coordinator so
they can bring him in likeconsultant, like you said, some
sort of position coach, I don'tknow.
But yeah, I mean, maybe ifyou're Doug Peterson, you just
don't necessarily care anymore.

(08:21):
You know, maybe he goes likethe college route or something
like that.
But there's going to be enoughevidence and sentiment out there
, both public and behind thescenes that we don't even see,
that when things start going thewrong way, doug Peterson, even
though he says I'll takeresponsibility, he's going to

(08:41):
lay the blame on top ofeverybody else.
And I can't remember who saidit I think it may have been Cap,
who mentioned it over onTwitter.
Yes, trevor Lawrence, he's notplaying up to the contract that
we gave him.
But you know what TrevorLawrence isn't doing?
He's not walking up to thepodium post-game pressers and
being a little baby about it andbaby, that's not the term I

(09:03):
want to use to describe Dougright now.
So at least Trevor Lawrence who, again we've talked about, who
has been prepped for this momentto be the face of a franchise
and knows he's going to be frontand center when it comes to any
type of blowback or when theteam starts losing.
He knows he is going to be atthe top of that list, at the top
of that list, but he's notgoing out in front of the media

(09:25):
and rolling his eyes, you know,and acting like everything else
is someone else's fault but his.
So, yeah, maybe he just doesn'tcare.
Maybe, again, like you said, heknows he has that security
elsewhere.
In terms of the Andy Rietri, I'msure he's got friends all over
the league, but, yeah, I'm sickand tired of him, man, it's time

(09:46):
for him to go.
And, uh, you know, I want toask you a question about how
long that should take and whenthat should take place.
If, uh, you know, if there isgoing to be a change, I'll.
I'll ask you about that alittle bit later, but really
quick though and I know we're afew minutes into the episode
that I want to shout out anybrand new listeners or returning
listeners to the podcast andmake sure you check out the link
tree link.
In the show notes of thisepisode you'll find social media

(10:07):
pages, the website touchdownjaguarscom, as well as the link
to download the cgap and use ourpromo code touchdown jaguars.
But yeah, jay, let's go aheadand get into this here.
As far as the game, um, what wecan discuss, like you said, you
didn't really get to see toomuch of it.
I know, know, you've seen bitsand pieces here and there, but I
want to make sure that we atleast discuss the game A small
bit for our listeners here, andthose of you that are listening,

(10:30):
of course, know at this pointthe Jacksonville Jaguars fell to
the Houston Texans 24-20 in agame that they were very
competitive in and we werethinking, okay, maybe a division
opponent was what they neededto get back on track.
They were targeting Brian ThomasJr quite a bit more, which is
something that I talked aboutearlier in the season, as well

(10:51):
as a bunch of other peoplewithin the fan base.
Trevor Lawrence 18 of 33, 169and two touchdowns.
Tank Bigsby had a great gameseven carries, 90 yards,
including that 58-yard run laterin the game I believe it was in
the third quarter whichultimately they could not
capitalize on.
We'll talk about that in just amoment.
Travis Etienne 11 carries, 50yards.

(11:12):
Btj 6 catches, 86 yards and atouchdown.
Christian Kirk 7 catches, 61yards and a touchdown as well,
and it really seemed like theywere focused on getting Brian
Thomas Jr and Christian Kirkinvolved early and often 21
targets between those twoplayers.
Defensively, ventrell Miller manI'm sure, jay, you saw people

(11:33):
talking about him on socialmedia.
What a great day for him andBuster Brown, monteric Brown,
also having a great day, and wesaw Ventrell Miller have a
really good preseason, have areally good camp, and that is
showing up when he gets hisopportunity.
Obviously, devin Lloyd was alate scratch, right before the
game we found out he wasn'tgoing to be playing.
Foye put on IR.
And then Monteric Brown, chadMumma, those guys taking

(11:56):
advantage of their opportunities, but ultimately it just did not
matter.
They could not make those stopstowards the end of the game.
Some play decisions forinstance not being able to get
into the end zone after that bigtank, bigsby run going forward
on fourth and goal and failingthe secondary couldn't stop Nico
Collins and listen, they'recompletely depleted.

(12:16):
But you know you hope that youhave a guy in Ryan Nielsen that
can at least scheme around that.
And it just did not seem tohappen.
That can at least scheme aroundthat.
And it just did not seem tohappen.
Cj Stroud 27-40, 345, and twotouchdowns.
They couldn't really get therunning game going.
Held them to under four yards acarry and just over 101 yards
total.
And yeah, daria Gumbawale, anold friend here of the

(12:37):
Jacksonville Jaguars, ended upscoring the go-ahead touchdown
with not much time left.
It was like under 30 seconds,something along those lines.
But Jay, touchdown with notmuch time left.
It was like under 30 seconds,something along those lines.
But Jay, again, I know youdidn't get to see all of the
game, but from what you haveseen, and what you've seen as
far as the discourse online,what are your initial thoughts
about this loss?
You know, once again a win thatgot away from them and

(12:57):
something they and and somethingthat could have turned around
possibly the momentum of theseason if they were able to get
a win against the Houston Texans.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, man, you would like to see and I did get to see
the parts where the Jaguarstook the lead and a little bit
of the game before heading intohalftime.
You would like to see themfinish that.
When they got the lead and theyjust weren't able to do it, a
lot of what I saw was theyreally struggled defensively, I

(13:31):
mean offensively.
They didn't score a lot ofpoints either, obviously, but
defensively, man, it felt likeevery time I was able to tune
into the game, right, that CJStroud, who I said was the best
quarterback in his draft.
Remember that, guys.
But every time CJ Strouddropped back into the pocket,
you know he was making acompletion at least eight yards

(13:52):
down the field.
Whatever the case may be atease, and you know I get it.
You know I kind of talked aboutthis last week, right, with
Tyson Campbell and Savage beingout, but having two key players
like that out of the gameshouldn't make a defense this
bad.
If you have the right schemeright, we've talked about it

(14:15):
before With the right scheme,you know you can throw a, even
though he's on injured reserve.
I'm just using him as anexample.
You could throw a Dewey wingguard in there for two games,
right, and get away with it andmake some wins with the right
scheme, or have some wins youcould throw you know this player
or that player that doesn'tstart in there for two games and
you know, get by with it and beokay, right.

(14:35):
But it seems like with thisscheme, if you miss one guy or
two guys, two of your starplayers, that's it.
You almost have no chance,right, and again, like the
completion just came at will.
And I think what little bit ofthe game I did see as well is
what helped the Jaguars stay inthis game was also the Texans

(14:57):
had a boatload of penalties too.
So the Texans didn't dothemselves any favors.
They kind of helped the Jagsthere and they still weren't
able to take advantage of it.
But overall, that's just how Ikind of felt, like I just got
tired of like when I waswatching the game, just seeing
how easy the completions wereand seeing how easy they let the
Texans offense off of the hook.

(15:17):
When the Texans offense, youknow had a self-inflecting wound
.
Whatever the case may be aholding call or illegal shift
they always let the Texans offthe hook, for the most part
defensively, as you said,ventrell Miller, which I put in
our text thread.
Ventrell Miller did look goodfrom the plays that I did see.

(15:38):
It's always good to see a youngtalent, even though he's a
former Gator.
I don't like to give them toomany props, but it's always good
to see a young player, at leastsomebody out there playing with
some fire and passion to makeyou look forward to the future,
because we're going to bewithout Foyer for a long time

(15:59):
and we just kind of are beat upon defense in general.
So I did like what I saw out ofhim and he'll be one of the
players that I'll be watchingheading forward Because, as you
said, we couldn't help butnotice him in the preseason.
We talked about him and nowit's translating.
And when you talk about thesehead coaches, they're going to
need a defense somebody for, orthey're going to need a leader,

(16:22):
somebody for the young crew torally around, because you know
they're probably going to haveto get younger With a new regime
.
You know they start cleaninghouse and Ventrell, you know,
has to be one of those guys youkind of put your eyes on.
It's like is he the leader ofthe new school for this team.
You know him and Jari and Jonesand so on and so forth.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
We'll see in time we'll yeah I'm glad you brought
up the penalties, jay.
Uh, 12 penalties for 93 yards,laramie tunsell committing a lot
of those on the houston texanside, and this is one of those
times I wish we had, like, oneof those espn researchers you
know what I mean.
Like I'd like to know what thepercentage is in terms of

(17:02):
winning percentage when a team'sopponent has that many
penalties for that many yards.
Like you said, houston wasgiving them opportunities and
they just could not takeadvantage of them.
I mean, listen, nico Collins isa great player to 12 catches,
151, like I said, in thattouchdown they're decimated.

(17:23):
But again, as far as thesecondary.
But, like you said, a coupleplayers out should not do that
to a defense when you'rescheming up against who is one
of the best quarterbacks in theleague in CJ Stroud.
So they certainly had theopportunity.
I did like that and a lot ofpeople liked that they were
targeting and getting BrianThomas Jr involved early.

(17:43):
Same thing with Christian Kirk.
Obviously he's gotten off to aslow start.
But one thing, jay, thattotally confuses me, and this is
mentioned.
You know we talked about thisbefore we got started.
A CBS article came out thismorning about what could happen
in terms of changes coming tothe Jaguars if they continue to
struggle and why it may bedifficult for them to get rid of
Doug Peterson and Press Taylor.

(18:04):
We'll talk about that maybe alittle bit later.
But heading into this game, theywere averaging 5.4 yards a
carry, third best in the leaguebehind the Ravens and the
Packers, but they had the fourthfewest rushing attempts in the
league.
Heading into this game Now,they ended up with 24 carries,
158 yards, averaging 6.6 yards acarry.
As a team, jay, tank Bigsby hada great game.

(18:27):
Travis Etienne, even though hewas a little banged up, still
came in and produced, and latein the game after that I've said
this in the group chat, jayafter that long run.
And then they tried to give Tankyou know those carries to try
and get in the end zone andfinish that drive off.
I don't know that.
We saw him after that, maybeonce, maybe twice, I don't know.

(18:48):
I feel like I'm being courteousby throwing two times out there
, but when they had theopportunity to kind of put the
game on ice, they went, I thinkshort run, incomplete pass,
incomplete pass and then puntand it took like 45 seconds off
the clock.
This is a running football team, jay right, we talked about it
a couple weeks ago like maybethey need to air it out a little

(19:14):
bit more, be a little bit morevertical.
They're a running football teamwith this tandem right With
Tank and ETN.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
That baffles me as to why you would go away from
something that was working sowell for pretty much the entire
game away from something thatwas working so well for pretty
much the entire game.
Yeah, it is confusing and youput all of this time and effort
this is what is even moreconfusing about it.
You put all of this time andeffort into, you know, doug
Peterson and the crew.
They were practically beggingTank Bigsby to take that next
step in training camp, right,because he kind of got off to a

(19:42):
slow start in training camp andyou would hear them mention him
in the press conferences and howmuch they needed out of him and
how much they needed him toimprove, and they don't utilize
him as they should.
I mean, that's always been athing with Doug Peterson
offenses right, me and you havetalked about this plenty of
times on this podcast is whatwon him the Super Bowl is he had

(20:03):
a bunch of running backs thathe could rely on throughout the
whole season.
It wasn't just one guy, it waslike two, three, four, five guys
that he could rely on.
That helped him get throughthose tough moments and it feels
like since he's come toJacksonville, he doesn't want to
rely on the run as much as heonce did.

(20:24):
He doesn't want to rely on therun as as much as he he once did
.
And it's puzzling and confusingto me, because the run game to
me is a key part, and we'll talkabout this with some of the you
know, head coaching candidateswho have a a a greater belief in
the run game.
But a key part of the run gameis establishing it, and what
have you can uh, what have youcan help your young quarterback

(20:45):
right that's what helps TrevorLawrence get out of that slump
of missing wide open receiversis establishing the run and what
have you.
So their lack of love for therun game has just been puzzling
just all together, like just theability to not utilize it as

(21:07):
much as they should, and also,again, like just it's crazy,
like they just put all of thistime and effort into just
wanting Tank Bixby to take thatnext step.
And now that we're here, it's adifferent story, all the more
of another reason for thiscoaching staff to be fired,
because nothing makes sense withthem at all yeah, I don't get

(21:28):
it, man, like you said, theyinvested this draft pick and
tank bigsby last year.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
He has a, admittedly, I think he would admit probably
not a very good year, and nowhe is looking like we got uh,
and obviously this is an extreme, but like we got a, you know,
obviously this is an extreme,but like we got a, you know a.
Fred Taylor, maurice Jones drewduo in the backfield and they
don't want to give him thefootball.
Seven carries, tank Bigsby, 11carries, travis, etn.

(21:53):
Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.
And, like you said, as far asTrevor, you know, missing those
passes and not trusting hisprotection, like why would he?
You know?
We talked about that in ourgroup chat today why would
Trevor believe in his protectionwhen he's, in the last couple
of years, just been gettingthrown around?
Because, like we talked aboutlast week, or like you talked
about last week, trambolke isincapable of putting together a

(22:18):
competent offensive line.
And I haven't seen the numberstoday.
I'll have to see what our buddy, dano Griffiths, has tweeted
out in terms of the offensiveline.
He may not have gotten to itquite yet, but he wasn't
necessarily running for his lifetoday, which is nice.
He was sacked once for 14 yards, but I do want to talk to you
about this, jay, because it'ssomething that obviously Jaguar

(22:39):
fans are very aware of, but itwas on full display in front of
a national well, not totallynational audience, but it was
brought up today by thecommentators.
This spin that Trevor Lawrencedoes to, I say to get out of
trouble, but it usually spinshimself into more trouble Is
Trevor Lawrence mechanically, Idon't want to say broken, but

(23:03):
has, because of, again, theoffensive line that we've
discussed and the coaching orlack thereof, has he regressed?
What is it about this spin thathe does that typically gets him
in more trouble than saves him?

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Oh yeah, he's absolutely regressed.
No ifs, ands or buts about it.
And typically what that spinmove is used for with
quarterbacks you'll see it allthe time, every quarterback uses
it.
But what they do is they'retrying to spin out of pressure
and by using that spin move,typically, if you spin the right
way, you put the defensive endor the defender that's trying to

(23:40):
tackle you in terrible positionto stop you.
You know, either you can spinout, maybe run the ball upfield,
or spin out by yourself somemore time, by, you know, evading
to the sideline and findingsomebody open.
But the purpose in that is todisposition or misposition a

(24:01):
defensive end or a defender thatis coming at you full speed
more than likely, and put themin a position where they are no
longer in your way in terms ofmaking that pass or sacking you.
But I guess, like with TrevorLawrence, his like, mechanically
he's just so out of sync andout of whack with where he was

(24:22):
in the beginning of the seasonand what he had worked on during
the preseason to where he'sjust utilizing it completely
wrong.
Now, admittedly I didn't seethe play that you're referring
to in this particular game, but,to make sense of it, that's
what that spin move is made todo.
If you turn on your favoritequarterback basically any
quarterback with mobility and alot of quarterbacks that don't

(24:44):
have mobility they especiallyhave to use because they're not
the fastest, so they have tofind quick ways to evade
pressure.
But if you turn on yourfavorite quarterback, you'll see
how that's supposed to beutilized to put a defender out
of position and get them out ofyour way.
But yeah, man, like he justdoesn't look like himself and

(25:07):
that's why, like I stress,people didn't understand when we
had that space as many, manyyears ago, why I stress that you
can't just give if you're shot.
You can't just give the keys toTrevor Lawrence's career to
anybody and by anybody I meantnot shot, but Trent Baalke
Because you need a GM thatunderstands the gravity of

(25:32):
building a good offensive linenot necessarily great, but a
good offensive line and, aswe've discussed, trent Baalke is
not good at that at all, that'snot a strength of his.
But you need a GM that canbuild a good enough offensive
line around your quarterbackthat doesn't put him in a
position where he's three yearsinto his career and is
struggling with mechanicsbecause he's sped up.

(25:53):
You know, that's a lot of whatled to his misfires is he's sped
up, he's throwing the ball alittle bit before he should or
he's putting a little bit toomuch mustard on it, because the
clock internally in his mind andthe you know, the strength
clock in his mind and the musclememory in his mind is thrown
off from being in dangerconstantly, and so sometimes

(26:15):
he'll see ghosts that aren'tthere.
You know we talked about thatin the past with plenty of
quarterbacks and you know he'sjust's just as a result.
He struggled, so we'll see ifthat's something he can get
corrected during the season.
It's kind of hard to correctduring the season, but we'll see
if he can.
Um, it's on the coaches to.
What you do to get aquarterback out of that rut is,

(26:37):
you know, find a way to get theminto a rhythm.
Find easy throws right.
Find a way to help them start arhythm.
Find easy throws right.
Find a way to help them startgames fast, which Trevor
Lawrence has actually saidhimself as well.
And once you get them in arhythm and you get them in a
situation where they'recompleting back-to-back passes,
then that muscle memory startsto even itself out and get back
to where it needs to be.

(26:58):
But again, can the coachingstaff do it?
It's hard to say right now,because they look like they need
to be fired the moment.
Well, they probably alreadylanded back home.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
Uh, they need to be fired like instantly, monday
preferably, but I don't thinkthat'll happen yeah, before we
transition into discussing thesecoaching candidates, jay, I do
want to take the time because itwas a request from once again,
as I mentioned, from our buddyEric, my co-host over at the
Way4 Podcast.
What do you think of?
Just as far as Doug's demeanor,his answer I think it is the

(27:34):
first time he acknowledged allseason that press is calling
plays Somebody pointed that outon Twitter as well plays
Somebody pointed that out onTwitter as well.
And again, more, it seems, moredeflection from him.
And you know the eye roll thepsst at the end of the press
conference as well.
It's just all nonsense andgarbage I don't want to see from
him anymore.
You know, like honeymoon's overDoug A couple years ago great,

(27:58):
like you said, jay, anybodycould have pulled us out of that
rut in terms of being at leastbetter than Urban Meyer.
That wasn't anything.
Necessarily I don't want to sayit wasn't hard to do.
Coaching football is hard, butanybody would have been an
improvement over Urban Meyer.
And now you're here pulling thesame crap because again, for
some reason, you're tied toPress Taylor and you're
committed to making sure thatyour buddy has a job, and I'm

(28:21):
sick of it.
So before we move on.
I do want to get your thoughtson how Doug ended that press
conference and just the way thathis attitude currently is when
it comes to interacting with thepress or answering any of these
questions.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah, as I said, you know, like me, james Johnson the
podcaster, and you, phil Smiththe podcaster, we can say that
the coaches can't go out thereand make the plays for the
players, right, again, likethat's kind of our job and
that's what comes with theterritory being critical, but
it's a way to do that.
As I said earlier, if you'rethe coach, you do that in

(28:55):
practice, right, not in thepublic.
And you know, we already knowthat Doug probably is out of
here, but if Sean Cunn everneeded an answer and ever needed
proof that he messed uptremendously as well in this
process, it was that moment ofseeing what Doug Peterson had to
say there.
And it's crazy because itwasn't that long ago that we

(29:17):
were in the press conference,right, or we weren't there, but
we, you know, saw the pressconference where we just thought
this weren't there, but we sawthe press conference where we
just thought this guy was thebest thing since sliced bread.
And man, did we get fooledthere?
Right, he had the mediaclapping for him when he
answered the question.
You remember he answered thequestion about who's going to
call the plays and, if I canrecall this correctly and

(29:39):
correct me if I'm wrong Phil.
He said me without hesitationor I will, or something like
that, without hesitation, andthe media like went to clapping
just immediately and look wherewe are now.
So to go from that guy that youknow looks like he had some
sense of a direction for hisquarterback and his team to
where he is now is just flat outdisappointing for his

(30:01):
quarterback and his team towhere he is now.
It's just flat outdisappointing.
And it is sad to be honest withyou.
But at the end of the day, likeDoug has nobody this is the key
to me Doug has nobody to be madwith but himself.
You know, some people will sayand this was the argument when
he took the job as well, jay,it's only 32 of these jobs

(30:22):
available.
You can't blame Doug for takingit, and my argument with that
was always you know why take ajob with Trent Baalke?
And also, too, why take a jobwith Trent Baalke if you aren't
going to come into thatsituation prepared to fight and
claw and scratch and do whateveris needed to get the weapons
around Trevor Lawrence and thepieces around Trevor Lawrence,

(30:43):
most notably the offensive linethat he needs?
Why take the job if you weren'tready to go to war with Trent
Baalke for those things.
I forgot it might have beenDilla or somebody who said this,
but if you're upset with thefact that Trent didn't put the
right amount of investments intothe offensive line, well, shot
con is always a owner that atleast you know.

(31:05):
As much as we criticize him, heshouldn't be hard to contact and
say hey, look, shot, we aregoing to be paying Trevor
Lawrence $200 million in thedraft.
I feel like we need to investin some protection for him.
And you know, while shot condoesn't know, know a lot about
football.
That's a great argument to make.
So, like Doug could be mad allhe wants about how things have

(31:31):
transpired, but he only hashimself to blame about taking a
job with Trent Baalke.
First and foremost, all theother coaches around the league
were smart enough to say I'llpass on that.
And now that things aren'tgoing his way, you know he's
taking it out the wrong way andsaying the wrong things.
But just know, at the end ofthe day, doug, you took this job

(31:51):
and you have to take theresponsibilities that come with
it.
And that's all I got to say onthat.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah, doug Peterson and Trambolke are snake oil
salesmen.
They're going to give us somesort of fraudulent cure and let
us know hey, I can fix this, Igot a way to make this better.
And that is who they are.
That is who they've been mostof their careers, or all their
careers in the case of Trambolke, and now we're paying the

(32:22):
consequences.
The franchise is paying theconsequences.
Trevor Lawrence is paying theconsequences.
Brian Thomas Jr, the promisingrookie, is paying the
consequences.
You and me, as the fan, myself,as well as everybody that sits
in my section as far as seasonticket holders, we're paying for
it.
And you're going to come outthere and roll your eyes and
shout out to Brent Martineau forasking an actual question and

(32:43):
checking you for something thatyou said.
You yourself said and used yourown quote against you, doug, so
you don't get to sit up thereand roll your eyes at Demetrius
and Ship and Mia and Brent andthose people that work their
tails off each and every day,that know that this fan base is
just doing everything they canto root for a winner.

(33:07):
And you saw how this fan basereacts a couple of years ago
when there's competency going onRight.
So back to back.
Nine and eight seasons GreatBack to back winning seasons
here in Jacksonville Fantastic,that's not enough anymore
seasons great back-to-backwinning seasons here in
jacksonville fantastic, that'snot enough anymore.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
It's just not so.
I don't want to hear it feelsomething too that I want to add
to it too.
Man, it's like how they didtheir best to like, you know, on
the surface, make it look likethey're seeing eye to eye.
And you know, I saw rightthrough it.
I saw right through it.
I saw right through it.
But in that episode of the Huntwhere they were drafting the
players, you know, obviously itgives you a visual of the front

(33:48):
office Shot Doug Trent, tonyKhan, all of them sitting
together as they make thesepicks.
And you know, I didn't see alook of for somebody who's
disappointed in how things havegone in terms of the talent that
have been brought in.
I didn't see somebody who youknow and I know people will say,

(34:10):
well, jay, he's not supposed toshow it on camera.
But when it came down to thatdiscussion that they showed in
the hunt for getting a secondround pick, doug was like, yeah,
let's do it.
Like.
I'm just paraphrasing here.
I'm not saying exactly what hesaid, but he didn't seem like a
I'll put it this way he didn'tseem like somebody who was upset
with that pick and somebody whowas trying to bang the table

(34:35):
for offensive linemen.
Now, maybe that happened behindthe scenes, but what I'm simply
trying to say is I just likehow they try to dress it up like
they're buddy-buddy and they'rehaving conversations in between
the pics of, like you know, oh,andy Reid text me trending.
He said that's a heck of a pic.
And you know, they just havinglike all of these casual
conversations, like they cooland close, like that and like

(34:57):
for me, I just saw through itand this is just kind of you
know, this one of those thingsthat falls on shotgun, like
people will tell you whateverthey need to say to get a job.
Yeah, I could get along withmanagement, I can get along with
this guy, I can get along withthat.
But you, as the owner, you haveto pay attention to the signs
and you have to fix that whenpeople weren't running to this

(35:22):
job opening despite having anumber one overall pick.
That's stuff you have to payattention to, right, and while
you know Sean Cohn is not, likesuper football, knowledgeable,
that's OK, I get it Like yourthing is automobile parts.
Right, you are big in theautomobile industry.
At least hire the right people,that can, you know, put the
right people together and putthe right people that won't

(35:43):
clash together and you won'thave to continue dealing with
this.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, and I'll say it .
You know, we said it before,I'll say it again Shad Khan,
bring in a brain trust man, puttogether a team to help you make
this decision.
Circe Vasselli, fred Taylorwhoever else they think should
be involved in this discussion.
Help Maurice Jones.
Drew, I'm sure he would love todo it.
So we did want to discuss kindof a little bit of the CBS

(36:08):
article here, jay, but I thinkwe should maybe leave that for
another time because we do wantto get into this list as far as
coaches that you would like tosee on the Jaguars radar.
Of course, he did the GM listlast week, so we want to follow
up with the coaches.
I do have a question for youbefore we get started are these
just five coaches as is, or didyou think about them in terms of

(36:28):
how they would pair with aspecific gm, or do you think any
of these coaches and gms couldbe plug and play and they would
work no matter what?
I'm interested to see, kind oflike, what your thought process
was when you put this listtogether.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
Well, some of them I did with having in mind a GM to
pair with them, but some of themI didn't have a GM in mind.
So really, the biggest theme ofthis list was really who can
help Trevor Lawrence the most,and some of which like who could
be a better leader, whichthat's what we were just
discussing, right, that Dougkind of hasn't been as of late.

(37:04):
Who could be a better leader to, you know, be able to tap into
this team's potential?

Speaker 1 (37:12):
Gotcha, okay, cool.
Well, hey, let's jump into it,right?
We're talking about the futureBecause, as far as what's going
on in the current day, man, itis not working.
So we want to give you guys anidea of maybe who to keep your
eye on.
So, if you missed last week'sepisode, jay gave the top five
general manager choices that weshould be keeping an eye on, and
this week, of course, as wementioned, we're going to be

(37:33):
doing the head coaches.
So did you have any honorablementions, jay, or do you just
want to kick it off with numberfive?

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yeah, honorable mentions, I had Mike Kafka, who
you know, a young, up-and-comingcoordinator.
It feels like Mike Kafka wasjust playing.
Not too young, that's how younghe is, he's like my age, he's
like 36, bro.
So Mike Kafka came to mind.
I think, if I'm not mistaken,he's with New York right now.
Joe Brady, who we saw with theBills do numbers on us last week

(38:04):
, and Clint Kubiak who, if I'mnot mistaken, he is with the New
Orleans Saints.
Obviously, his name precedesthe reputation of the Kubiak
family.
So, yeah, he's a guy that, ofcourse, was a part of Gary
Kubiak or has been knowledgeablewith Gary Kubiak building the
scheme that he built a long timeago.

(38:26):
So those were my honorablemention guys.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
Got it.
And then what about this?
As far as the opposite, justbefore we get started at number
five, any names you absolutelywant to stay away from?
Bill Belichick is on my list.
What about you?

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Yeah, bill, I don't want to say Bill Belichick is on
my list of people I want tostay away from, but he's
certainly not near the top of mylist and I certainly wouldn't
be like super gaga about it.
What excites me?
The only I'll say this, philwhat excites me about Bill
Belichick is us as media members.
Right, we get to share a mediaroom with the greatest in terms

(39:05):
of head coaching.
Now, bill Belichick the GM.
Get that guy away from my teamby all means.
But we'll be able to spend timein a media room with the
greatest head coaching footballever.
Does that not have some kind ofintrigue to it?
You know, I guess I could spinthat back to you, because he's
just an encyclopedia forfootball.

(39:26):
I know he's not the most like.
You know he sounds kind ofboring when you look at him or
you see him in press conferences, but just to be able to pick
his mind and speak with him issomething that I could tell my
kids forever.
I don't know how you would feelabout that aspect of it.
But then with that comes BillBelichick the GM, and that's a

(39:47):
no for me.
That's a no-G for me, as amatter of fact.
So I want to hear your take onthat.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah, well, I think the question you're asking me is
would I like to sit down andhave a conversation with Bill
Belichick, absolutely Any day ofthe week?
Set me on the opposite side ofa table with Bill Belichick, but
not as our head coach.
So that's where I'm at, because, again, not only just because
of the general manager stuff,but that is a big part of it

(40:14):
Right, and shout out to.
I do want to give a shout outto Robert Land.
Houston Sports Talk podcast hadme on last week and we talked
about Bill Belichick.
So if you want a little bitmore of my thoughts, you can
check out that, that video overon their YouTube page.
But yeah, if we're talking aboutjust sitting down and talking
football, picking his brain, notonly about football but also
life, sign me up every day ofthe week.
But in terms of the head coachof the Jacksonville Jaguars

(40:35):
going forward, no, that doesn'tintrigue me.
In terms of sitting in thepress box or sitting in the
press room and listening to BillBelichick give nothing answers
for 17 games a season, now, thatdoesn't interest me.
So that's how I feel about it.
Was there anybody else on yourlist that you'd want to stay
away?

Speaker 2 (40:54):
from.
That's the only one that comesto mind.
But yeah, and also, don't signme up for like I don't want what
comes with Bill Belichick interms.
I don't want like freaking JoshMcDaniels or.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
Matt.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Patricia here either.
Like that's a no for me as well, joe.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Judge yeah, we don't want those guys.
Right, right, we don't wantthose guys here, so, but yeah,
Jay, go ahead and kick us off.
Who is number five on your listfor head?

Speaker 2 (41:25):
coaching candidates that are on your radar to
replace Doug Peterson.
So on the bottom of my list Ihave Todd Munkin.
One thing that kind of stoodout to me in this search right
field was some of the guys thatgot head coaching interviews, or
, you know, they have ties tothe Jaguars, and Munkin was one
of them.
He used to be a receivers coachwith us.
Um, and this was a long timeago, but you know, me and Phil

(41:46):
were fans of the franchise thentoo, but under Jack Del Rio he
was a receivers coach and, um,I'm just real familiar with
Munkin from the standpoint ofyou know what he's done with
Georgia, won some nationalchampionships with us.
Go dogs, right, um.
So, like I, always have beenintrigued with offensive minds
that are not that far removedfrom college, because a lot of

(42:07):
what you're going to be dealingwith is young men that are
coming from college too.
Especially, again, if you'refiring your coach, you're
probably going to start a youthmovement and you need somebody
who can communicate, be thetotal exact opposite of Urban
Meyer, basically, who cancommunicate with the youth well,
and be the exact opposite ofTom Coughlin.
Right, that was his big thing.
He could never connect with theyouth Right.

(42:29):
And I think you know, with Monkbeing you know what, two years
removed from being at Georgiaand working with Carson Beck and
working with all of these youngplayers that are now in the NFL
, I think he could connect verywell with a young group of young
men and just tap in.
And he's very seasoned as anoffensive coordinator or just an

(42:51):
offensive assistant in the NFLas well.
I mean, I know you look at theRavens and say you know, at
times, especially this year,they haven't looked the greatest
, but he's kind of worked withwhat he's always had with Lamar
Jackson and you know he hadCarson back previously.
So it's like, hey, you give methe quarterback, I'll figure out
the risks, I'll put what needsto be put around them or I'll

(43:14):
confine the scheme to them andwe'll make it work.
So that's kind of like what youwould want if you're looking at
it from the perspective ofTrevor Lawrence.
And I mean, look, last year theRavens weren't that bad in
terms of offensively.
They ran the ball well.
I had to pull up theirstatistics but if I can recall
they ran the ball well.
That was kind of their strength.
And Lamar Jackson had a verygood season, right?

(43:36):
So he was, if I can recallright Phil, you could correct me
on this he was underconsideration for MVP again, I
think, but he didn't end upwinning it.
But all of that said Last year,yeah, last year he won MVP last
year.
There you go.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Well, my point made.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Okay, that further makes my point, right there.
This man helped lead LamarJackson to the MVP victory and,
yep, you're right, now that I'mthinking about it, he did win,
which you know.
You got to wonder.
Can he do the same for TrevorLawrence, right?
So Todd Munkin is on my listfor those reasons.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Yeah, at the time of recording right now, 9.30 pm,
the Ravens are up 21-3 on theBuffalo Bills.
The Buffalo Bills team thatjust put up almost a 60 piece
just a few days ago, right, andI think Munkin did an interview
for the Chargers and Panthersjob last year, if I'm
remembering correctly.
So, yeah, that he's a name thatcertainly is going to be

(44:34):
floating out there and you know,when you look at his trajectory
, jay, yeah, a head coachingspot is certainly next for him
and I would be very happy withthat.
I know Ravens fans kind of goback and forth on what Munkin
has been doing, at least earlyon in the season.
But you know, right now, I mean, you never count out the
Baltimore Ravens and you knowyou have taught me, jay, that

(44:58):
getting somebody from thatRavens tree, from that Baltimore
Ravens ecosystem, is never abad move.
So, yeah, I love this pick atnumber five for the possibility
as far as Munkin coming in andworking with Trevor.
For sure, who's number four onyour list?

Speaker 2 (45:17):
Yeah, so number four, I have Aaron Glenn, another guy
, for what I said with TyMunkken with ties to the Jaguars
, right, aaron Glenn.
I can remember going to gamesand watching Aaron Glenn play in
the Jaguars uniform.
So it feels is that you know,he's just a leader amongst men,

(45:45):
he can get men to just playtheir best and, that being said,
like again, that's what youlook for a leader, because we're
kind of not seeing that withDoug right now, Somebody who can
get the team to rally aroundthem.
But also to talking whendiscussing what you just said,
right about teams with goodecosystems, Right, a team with a

(46:07):
good ecosystem right now andthat has had a good ecosystem
for the last two years, is theDetroit Lions.
Right, and I think theJacksonville Jaguars should pay
close attention to that wholetree and that ecosystem because
they are very similar to theJacksonville Jaguars, where
their culture was just terriblein terms of winning and being

(46:29):
able to put together good teams.
What have you Lions fans willtell you better than anybody,
it's been rough and hard to be aLions fan.
You can argue they probablyhave had it, uh, tougher than us
, probably in terms of recenttimes but they figured it out
never, uh, we've never gone 0and 16.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
So yeah, the lions right, exactly, man.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
So, oh man, what a stain to have.
But, um, uh, that being said,taking somebody that has helped
shape a culture that waspreviously terrible into what it
is now is what the JacksonvilleJaguars should be looking at,
and Glenn isn't the only one.

(47:11):
We'll mention some others thatthey should be looking at there,
and I mentioned a GM candidate,ray Agnew, who would help as
well.
He was a guy that interviewed,I think, for two jobs, three
jobs last year.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Um, it's about time, and I think interviewed with the
falcons titans and chargerslooks like yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
So three jobs right, and I think he's learned a lot
from dan campbell too, right,another leader amongst men as
well.
So it wouldn't be the sexiestpick, admittedly, right, but I
think that the fan base wouldrally around a former Jaguar
right, and somebody who hasleadership skills.
I think, like the fans wouldn't, like in the initial stages,

(47:54):
may not be excited about it, butlook at it this way.
We were super excited, you know, when we thought we were going
to be able to get Byron Leftwichand bring him back.
You know I wouldn't be mad withbringing a defensive player
from our past back either,because I think you know,
eventually that is somethingthat the fan base can rally
around because they love theirJag alum.

(48:17):
So I don't know, that's maybethat's just me.
Again, I get it, it's not themost sexy as pig, but I'm
curious to know how you feelabout that selection.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Oh, yeah, I would be ecstatic about Aaron Glenn and,
like you said, didn't spend awhole lot of time here.
It was.
It was less than a seasontechnically, but in terms of a
guy that I grew up watching, youknow, I mean you're talking
about his Jets run and then towhere he is now, as far as in
the Detroit Lions organization,wasn't it last year's hard

(48:47):
knocks?
Jay with the Lions and he?
He was very much like front andcenter during the Lions hard
knocks and just seeing how heconnected with players and
showed emotion and got everybodyto rally and everything like
that Like that's exactly what weneed here when it comes to a
head coach only 52 years old, sodefinitely a younger guy,
former player, I mean, look atwhat the Houston Texans are

(49:08):
doing with Amiko Ryans, right?
I would be all for this.
So, yeah, I do agree.
I think people are going to bewanting an offensive head coach
to come in.
But as far as defensive choices, yeah, aaron Glenn would be on
my list as well.
So love that one for sure, justfor the, not only because I

(49:28):
think he's going to be a greathead coach someday, but in terms
of culture, yeah, aaron Glennwould certainly get the job done
, in my opinion as well.
So, jay, who do you have numberthree on your list?
As we continue, these are topfive coaches that Jay thinks the
Jaguars should consider interms of replacing Doug Peterson
.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Yeah, it wouldn't be a list without going with a hot
coaching candidate that helped arookie to have a phenomenal
season, right.
And so I'm going to go withBobby Slowick, who we just saw.
They didn't have quite the gamethey wanted offensively against
us, but again, that was a lotbecause of penalties, right.
But when you look at BobbySlowick and what he did with CJ

(50:10):
Stroud last year especially andjust how relaxed he got him to
be Because, remember, cj Stroudkind of started, you know,
things off a little bit slow andyou know then he got that chip
on his shoulder.
I think he even said this.
It was that JacksonvilleJaguars game where he felt like
the Jaguars didn't respect him,just based off of what they

(50:30):
showed and some of the thingsthey were saying in the press
conferences, and that put a chipon his shoulder.
And you know a part of whathelped him to make the game look
so easy, right, the game.
That's the thing about Stroud.
Man is.
Every time I watch him, evengoing back to the Ohio State
days, man is.
You know, the coaches that he'sbeen around have kind of helped

(50:51):
him a lot to make the game lookeasy, and Bobby Slowick has
done that on the professionallevel as well.
So you know, looking at whatthey had the successes
specifically they had last yearbecause I know this year they're
on a little bit of a slump andwhat he did for the young

(51:17):
quarterback and CJ Stroud, ofcourse that's intriguing
transition and speed up theprocess of building a team.
Bobby Sloak is a good answerbecause he knows the division
and that's what I was sayingwith Ed Dodds last week, right
with the GM candidate.
Bobby Sloak is familiar withall of the defenses in this
division.
He probably doesn't focus onthe offenses but he has some

(51:41):
familiarity with the personneland all of that in terms of
offensively around the leagueand whatnot.
So yeah, that is a guy that Ithink the transition would be
easy with the Texans.
Block it maybe, I don't know.
Again, like that just dependson what kind of organization
you're dealing with.
But I don't think theseorganizations like preventing
somebody from getting a job andfeeding their families,

(52:03):
organizations like preventingsomebody from getting a job and
feeding their families.
But all of that said, I wouldgo with Bobby Sloic as one of my
top guys.
Time will tell if theJacksonville Jaguars have been
paying attention to what theTexans are doing and plan on
interviewing him as a result.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Yeah, I just talked about a youth movement, bobby
Sloic, 37 years old, interviewedfor three positions last year,
maybe more the commanders,falcons and Seahawks.
Actually, no, he also didTennessee and Carolina.
So he was certainly makingthose rounds last year.
You know people understandablytaking notice after what CJ
Stroud and the Houston Texansdid last year.

(52:38):
So, yeah, definitely one ofthose hot commodities did last
year.
So, yeah, definitely one ofthose hot commodities.
I'm sure there's another nameon this list, jay.
That is another offensivecommodity when it comes to head
coaching positions but or headcoaching openings.
So, yeah, not surprised to seehim here on this list.
He has had a quite a rise.
He also spent time with the49ers, so you know I was just

(52:58):
about to say that, Phil Rightyeah, I left out.
The most important thing islearning from a Shanahan right
Spending time with Kyle Shanahanand we saw what the Texans did
to us here today, you know, andoptimizing their strengths and
trying to, you know, hide thoseweaknesses.
Now, you know, obviously comingoff all those penalties, that's

(53:19):
a little concerning, but youknow.
But those are things that canbe fixed over time.
They do have a penalty problemover there in Houston.
But, yeah, definitelyunderstand why Bobby Sloak would
be on your list and in the topthree.
So if ShotKhan's not payingattention, hopefully once again
he would bring in that generalmanager and that brain trust

(53:39):
that is paying attention towhat's happening right here in
the division.
So, jay, who do you have nexton your list as we get to the
top two?
Top two options to replace DougPeterson once Shad Khan
hopefully gives him the bootsooner rather than later.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Number two on your list and so this name, just for
the fact of who he was the coachfor, might make some people say
, oh, I don't know about that,but I like Mike Vrabel and I've
always liked Mike Vrabel fromthe sense of he's always that
guy at his age.

(54:17):
He's not an older head coach,he's not a younger head coach,
he's kind of in that middle ageof head coaches.
He's not an older head coach,he's not a younger head coach,
he's kind of in that middle ageof head coaches.
He's a guy that every time Isaw Mike Vrabel he was like one
to fill in terms of like, notnecessarily during the regular
season or whatever the case maybe, but for example, in the
offseason, when you're scoutingand all of that.
It was nothing for Mike Vrabelto jump on the field and do some

(54:40):
drills with one of these kidsat their pro day, right.
So again, that goes back towhat I was saying earlier with
my first candidate.
That's escaping my mind, butthat goes back to what I was
saying about like being able toconnect with a younger crowd.
Well, todd Monken was who I wasmentioning earlier.
Being able to connect with theyounger crowd, because you

(55:02):
probably again you're going tobe dealing with the youth
movement and also to like, evenfor the veteran players, he's
somebody that players can getbehind because, also, you know,
he has played in the game a longtime himself, right?
We all remember the days of himplaying with the Patriots.
I think he was actually draftedby the Steelers.
Correct me if I'm wrong aboutthat, phil, but he played for

(55:23):
the Patriots.
I think he was actually draftedby the Steelers.
Correct me if I'm wrong aboutit, phil, but he played for the
Patriots.
That's what we know him most,notably for playing linebacker,
and then sometimes he would comein as a tight end, like he made
a living off of that, evenscored some touchdowns.
So that just kind of shows youthe liveliness of him, right,
just again, as I was saying, hisability to connect with the
younger crowd and also, too,like one thing I noticed with

(55:49):
him is like every year that hewas there with the Titans, we
never could scratch the Titansoff as an easy win, right?
As a matter of fact, it was thatgame we always circled, that we
could either get sweeped bythem each year, right, or we
would split the series.
But even when they didn't havetalent, it still felt like Mike
Vrabel would get the most out ofthem and maximize them.
As you were saying in theearlier field with Bobby Sloan,

(56:10):
would maximize the talent he had, even when we were more
talented in them, and they wouldstill somehow find a way to win
right, and I think that's kindof the story of his career.
I don't know if the Titans havehad a lot of super talented
teams, but what he was able toget out of them during his run
there to me is kind offascinating.

(56:31):
I think they overachieved withhim.
I don't think they were ultratalented and he got them into
the playoffs.
They didn't really make noisein the playoffs, but he got them
at least there.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
So that's another intriguing element with him and
again, like I said, with slow it, he's familiar with the afc
south yeah, like you said, Idon't think people are going to
be super ecstatic about thisoption, especially given you
know some of the up-and-comingnames that are on this list, but
still, I mean he's still under50.
That's crazy, 49 years old.
Mike ravel and yeah, looking athis tenure there in Tennessee,

(57:04):
he won 54 and 45, 2 and 3 in thepostseason.
But I mean, you're talkingabout three straight postseason
appearances 2019, they went 9and 7 and were in the AFC
Championship game.
Of course, they lost to theKansas City Chiefs, but I'm
looking at that.
I mean, those were the RyanTannehill days and you know, and
obviously Derek Henry was there, but I think that was maybe a

(57:26):
rookie, aj Brown back then.
But yeah, I mean we talked toall of our our Titans friends
and whenever they come onto theshow, you know they had always
spoken very glowingly about MikeVrabel.
I'm pretty sure the owner ofthe Titans was a big fan of his.
And then, obviously, those lastcouple of seasons got rough,
you know, seven and 10, six and11.

(57:46):
The thing with me for MikeVrabel Jay is I think he's going
to be number one on a lot ofother teams lists and you know,
obviously the Cowboys are goingto be thrown out there when it
comes to whatever's going tohappen with Jerry, but I think
Mike Vrabel would be a greatpick here.
We keep using the word cultureand listen to Tennessee Titans.
Were they going to be like thesexiest team to watch?

(58:09):
No, but they were going to win.
They were going to win gamesand they were going to be
competitive and that's what theywere during Mike Vrabel's
tenure.
So still also very young guy,former player Again, we've seen
a lot of those on this too.
So, yeah, I'm OK with MikeVrabel being on this list.
I might switch him and Slowikor maybe have him a little bit

(58:29):
further down in the list.
Maybe go Vrabel, glenn and thenSlowik, but I'm certainly OK
with him being on the list forsure.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
Right, yeah, we talk about Belichick and you know
people wanting him.
People should want theBelichick and you know people
wanting him.
People should want theBelichick disciple.
Not Belichick and I'm nottalking about McDaniels or I'm
not talking about Patricia, I'mtalking about Vrabel is the one
that people should be looking at.
He played for Belichick, shouldI say.
I don't think he ever coachedunder him, but that's the one

(58:57):
people should be looking at.
So I love Vrabel here, as theycall him, and yeah, you said he
would be on the top of the listfor a lot of people.
One thing that Jazz got goingin their favor again.
He's familiar with thisdivision.
He probably will think he canhit the ground running in terms
of already knowing what's goingon in the division.

(59:17):
And also, too, would he beintrigued by having a better
quarterback than Ryan Tannehilland Trevor Lawrence?
Well, that depends on ifcoaches and GMs feel if Trevor
Lawrence has been ruined.
But if he thinks of TrevorLawrence highly as the Clemson
guy that we saw in Clemson andthe national champion, then he
probably would be intrigued bythis team.

(59:38):
But we'll see and time willtell.
I'll go right ahead into thenumber one coaching candidate
for me and that's Ben Johnsonfrom the Lions.
I already spoke glowingly aboutthe Lions organization, right,
and I would love ideally for youknow it'd be Ray Agnew,
probably as the GM.
He brings in Ben Johnson andBen Johnson like maybe brings in

(01:00:01):
Mark Brunel as the offensivecoordinator because they work
together in Detroit.
You know, maybe that's wishfulthinking, but just going back to
what I was saying about theLions organization, he's a guy.
He's actually a holdover frombefore, when Dan Campbell was
there.
So he saw like the worst of theLions, like not necessarily

(01:00:24):
like the Lions that went 0-16,but he saw some bad Lions team.
He was like a, he was like anoffensive assistant before Dan
Campbell came there and DanCampbell liked him so much he
was like you know what?
I want to keep him Right.
And when coach Lynn, anthonyLynn, was fired as Dan
Campbell's offensive coordinator, I think that's when they moved

(01:00:45):
him up and he's hit the groundrunning and I think the key with
him is that again he's cateredthe offense to Jared Goff.
We're talking about a guy whowas a cast off and people
probably felt like, felt like uh, jared golf's career is over.
They willingly traded for him,brought him in and they have

(01:01:07):
been killing it ever since withhim and I think what has helped
them to have success with golfis just like they're very kind
of like they're close to balance.
They might be a little bit morepass heavy now than they were,
but they for the most partthey've been close to balance
and that's what you want to helpa quarterback.
That's what has elevated JaredGoff, that's what would elevate

(01:01:28):
Trevor Lawrence is being closerto balance.
Right At one point in time theywere almost dead like 50-50 run
pass ratio.
I think they're like 47-53 nowin terms of run to pass ratio.
So they're a little bit morerun heavy now.
But all of that said man, it'sjust that balance he would bring
to Trevor Lawrence.

(01:01:48):
And also too, just like whenyou watch the Lions, one thing
about them is they're physical,the exact opposite of this
offense.
And I think if you put thatphysical offensive line in front
of Trevor where the run gamecould come easier, if you put
that physical offensive line infront of Trevor where the run
game could come easier, he couldsee a career resurgence, like

(01:02:08):
Jared Goff has seen, and hecould get back closer to the
Trevor we saw back when we madethat playoff run.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Yeah, ben Johnson was one of those names that seemed
like just an absolute slam dunkin terms of getting a head
coaching job.
Last season for the last cycle,the hiring cycle, I think he
interviewed with seattle,atlanta, carolina and the
chargers and then he withdrewhis name from consideration
after taking any more interviews.

(01:02:35):
And I remember there there wasa little bit of like controversy
is too strong of a word butthere's like a little bit of
like controversy is too strongof a word but there's like a
little bit of like pushback onBen Johnson's attitude in terms
of getting another opportunityin the future, that kind of rub
people the wrong way.
Do you remember that, jay, interms of him withdrawing his
name and deciding to stick withDetroit?

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Yeah, I remember that .
Well, I think, like what Iremember is, it was a rumor out
there that he wanted a lot ofmoney, right?
And he's going to you know thathe was super picky about like
what situation that he wanted tobe a part of.
While he did interview for manyjobs, it felt, like you know
just from the reports, that hewould be picky on which one of
those jobs he would actuallyaccept if it was given to him.

(01:03:18):
But I mean, I don't mind apicky candidate and I don't
blame him for being pickybecause, you know, one minute we
talked about this with Ed Doddsand him being picky, right With
the GM search.
One minute, these owners, youknow they love you and then the
next minute they're trying toget you up out of there.
Right, chad Cunn loved UrbanMeyer, which rightfully so.

(01:03:39):
He should have packed him up,as he did, right.
But you know, like I don'tblame coaches for wanting
security at all.
So for a picky candidate, a GMor head coach, the Jacksonville
Jaguars seem like a good spotbecause again you got an owner
who's going to be hands off.
He's going to stay out of theway.

(01:04:00):
We know that for a fact.
He's going to stay out of theway.
We know that for a fact.
He's going to stay out of theway, love it or hate it.
And, um, you know, again youhave a quarterback.
If he thought jared goff wasfixable, then I don't see why he
don't think trevor lawrence isfixable.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
That could be intriguing to him as well do you
share any of the concern thatsome people uh, as far as like
the, the national media has gonethat the Lions have taken maybe
a little bit of a step back asfar as offensively I mean
they've still got a winningrecord.
They play tomorrow night at thetime of recording but some
people think that Jared Goff hastaken a little bit of a step
back here this year as well asthe offense just in general.

(01:04:36):
I mean they're still playingwinning football.
I'm not too concerned about it.
But do you share any of thoseconcerns when it comes to what
the Lions look like this year?

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
No, because it wasn't that long ago.
I was on PFF, I think it waslast week.
The Lions, yeah, while theywere struggling, they were the
number one ranked offensive lineat the time of that writing
that I saw last week they hadthe best offensive line in
football.
Sign me up for that any day ofthe week, because if you give
Trevor Lawrence the offensiveline, the rest will fix itself

(01:05:06):
right.
The run game will fix him andyou know there's more
opportunities in terms of thepassing game as well.
So no, I don't, just for thesimple fact that you know well,
if the offensive line issomething that he emphasizes,
then the rest will sort itselfout, in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
Yeah, I agree, ben Johnson is at the top of my list
as well, and then, like I said,I'd probably go Slowik, then
Aaron Glenn and then Mike Vrabel, like you have on your list as
well.
I just want to throw this nameout there, because Boogie
brought it up in our group chatCliff Kingsbury.
What are the thoughts there?

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
no, I'm good on that Boogie.
You're my nephew and all but um.
I don't know Cliff Kingsbury,now look, I would like Kingsbury
, I kind of would be open to him.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Let him cook a little bit.
Right in Washington they got agood thing going like.
Give him a couple years maybeyeah, no, I would like Kingsbury
.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
I kind of would be open to him.
Let him cook a little bit rightin Washington.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
I think they got a good kid going Like give him a
couple years maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Yeah, no, I would take him as an OC.
Maybe as an OC, but I don'tknow, man, I just think
sometimes you could be too youngfor the game and I think that's
kind of what showed in Arizona,and I don't know if he's ready
just yet.
Like, if anything, it wasprobably a sign that they
brought him into the league alittle too soon.

(01:06:25):
But look he, you know he'scooking over there in Washington
and also to a lot of times whatwe'll see with these coaches is
, when they go to another teamand they get to focus on that
offensive coordinator level,defensive coordinator level,
they learn a lot about theirsecond tenure as a head coach.
So let's, let's pump the brakeson it, let's see what he learns

(01:06:47):
from that Washington groupbefore we start pumping the
whole Cliff Kingsbury for headcoach thing again yeah, I agree,
I wanted to get your yourthoughts on that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
You know, boogie and overreacting, that definitely
never happens.
He'll never listen to thisepisode, so he'll have no idea
that we said that about him.
But really great list, jay.
I'm interested to see maybe,what names emerge as the season
goes on as well.
Um, as obviously there areteams that are certainly
overachieving.
Uh, that happens every season,and there'll be some names that
are thrown out there when itcomes to the head coaching mix.

(01:07:19):
Uh, last thing I'll ask youbefore we wrap up this episode
when does that change need tohappen?
Now?
Like I said, in a perfect worldI think this change would
happen tomorrow morning.
We would get noticed that DougPeterson and Trent Baalke have
both been let go.
At what point do you make thismove?
Do you wait to the bye week?
Do you wait till you get backfrom London?
Depending on how things gothere At this point, who knows

(01:07:44):
how the Colts game is gonnaunfold next week?
That's certainly not a gimme.
I know we got that winningstreak against the Colts here at
home, but Joe Flacco doesn'tcare about that.
Joe Flacco doesn't give a damnabout any streak when he comes
to play, as we saw him.
I believe they they won today,didn't they the Colts over the
Steelers, or did the Steelersmake that comeback?
Let me check.
Yeah, no, they won.
So Joe Flacco came in and ledthem to victory.

(01:08:07):
So when do you think thatchange should be made?
As far as letting Doug go, doyou let him finish out the
season?
Does it get so bad that youcan't ignore it anymore?

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
What's the time frame you're looking at in your
opinion.
Yeah, what I will say I know.
Earlier I was saying like, hey,shod, fire them as soon as they
get off the plane, right, butat the same time with with shod
man, you, you don't want shod tolike fall in love with a guy
you know for sticking aroundwith him too much.
Like doug could go on a littlerun, and it's hard to see them

(01:08:41):
going on a run, I get it, butthey can go on a little run and
shot might be like, hey, wemight want to keep you.
I don't know.
I'm joking partially a littlebit there, but I mean, yeah,
with the three games that'scoming up, they are winnable.
You know, joe Flacco did win agame against us last year, so
there's that.

(01:09:02):
But the Colts will never makeme believe and I'm a
non-believer in this Jaguarsteam, but the Colts will never
make me believe that they canbeat the Jaguars in Jacksonville
.
Like just literally nothingthey've tried works when they go
to Jacksonville, so that's awin.
And then you got to worry abouttwo teams flying to London and
playing us.
Like those are winnable gamestoo, so they could go on a

(01:09:25):
little winning streak regardlessof how the season go, I say
fire everybody.
But I am not as big as others onlike firing Doug too soon.
Right, and a lot of it too islike that article that we
mentioned.
Man is like.
I don't want to put Trevor in abad position either as well,

(01:09:46):
like for the rest of the season,because it sounds like Mike
McCoy don't really have hishands in play, calling like that
even though he used to be aformer head coach.
I just don't want to put Trevorin a compromising position and
if that just means holding on toDoug for the sake of just like
putting you know, not puttingTrevor out there with just like
just straight up unorganizedchaos, then I'm cool with you

(01:10:08):
know keeping him as long aspossible.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
Personally, yeah, you're definitely right, because
, especially going over toLondon, you know they always
seem to like put a couple winstogether and then come back here
with a little bit of momentumand you know who knows what
could happen.
What I would circle here is um,you know they play at detroit
november 17th and that's headinginto their bye week.

(01:10:31):
They get blown out.
Look at these, the stretch ofgames here, right when they come
back.
We talked about this in ourseason review episode green bay,
philly, minnesota, detroit.
That's another losing streakthat I could easily see,
especially the way the Vikingsare playing right now we just
talked about.
The Lions Packers are a littlebit up and down.

(01:10:51):
I think that's probably becauseof the Jordan Love injury, even
though he's playing, but he'sprobably not 100%.
And the Eagles who knows whatEagles team you'll get on Sunday
Night Football right, I thinkthat's Sunday night football.
But yeah, they could go onanother losing streak heading
into the buy and that could bethe opportunity, you know, and
who knows, if we get, how manymore of these Doug Peterson

(01:11:13):
press conferences are we goingto get before shotgun just says
enough is enough, you know.
So I definitely don't think.
I don't want it to happen toosoon, but there is an
opportunity right after the byewhere you know you got five
weeks left.
Let Mike McCoy come in and dowhat he needs to do to finish
out the season and kind of gofrom there.
So yeah, November 18th is thedate to circle guys.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
Yeah, that's a good time to feel because you know
you start giving people fillersin terms of you know who may
want the job, right, so you canbe on the radar of these
candidates all the way inNovember Not that you can
interview them during the season, but you know their agents can
start doing the homework and allof that good stuff.
Ok, let me do some digging onthis Jacksonville situation and

(01:12:01):
the ownership there and theorganization and what have you,
and they'll be well prepared toyou know, relay that information
to you know, their clients, thehead coaching candidates, and
yeah, I mean that'll get,that'll put them ahead of the
curve by doing it around thattime and, as I said, you also
don't want to do it too sooneither.
So that feels like a good, thatfeels like a reasonable time to

(01:12:26):
do it in terms of not doing ittoo soon but getting some
fillers on you know those whomay want the job.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think the only really toughthing would be for us is we have
to deal with this for anotherone, two, three, four, five, six
, seven, almost two months.
So we'll see if we make it,guys.
We'll see how it goes.
But, jay, anything else youwant to mention as we wrap up
this episode?
Another great episode.
Glad we were able to work outat least some of the technical
issues we've been having.
But we appreciate y'all rockingwith us as we navigate this

(01:12:57):
season.
We're all in this together,guys and man, it's certainly not
going the way that we wanted,but at least we get to share
this space with y'all.
We appreciate the downloads andthe listens.
Jay, anything else you want tomention to our audience before
we wrap up and focus on thehomecoming game?
I guess man those Isn't it?
Tom Coughlin that's beinginducted next Sunday.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
Tom Coughlin, the coach, not the executive,
necessarily, but Tom Coughlin,the coach, deserves better.
In terms of the team that isreturning to Duval County next
weekend, man TC, probably sickto his stomach watching this
team.
But yeah, man, oh man, like youfeel for TC there.
But all of that said, no, notmuch to add there, as you said,

(01:13:40):
we're all in it together.
Man, glad we could do thisepisode, start getting everybody
ready for the future.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
You all know where to find us in the content
touchdownjadwarscom, atsportsgrind underscore done on
twitter, and at phil, thefilipino, on twitter yep,
everything you need in the linktree link of the show notes of
this episode, our social media,as well as the social media
pages for the podcast.
And do not forget to check outthe website touchdownjaguarscom.
Along with downloading thatSeatGeek app, Save yourself $20

(01:14:10):
on your first purchase with thepromo code touchdownjaguars.
Folks, that is my co-host,James Johnson.
I am Phil Smith.
Don't forget to continue totune in to Touchdown Jaguars for
every Jaguar touchdown and wewill see you next week.

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Episode 97: Texans/Jaguars Week 4 Analysis - Head Coaching Candidates for the Future

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 97: Texans/Jaguars Week 4 Analysis - Head Coaching Candidates for the Future