October 30, 2024 • 63 mins
Welcome to Episode 34 of Touched Out!: A Mental Health and Parenting Support Podcast!
In this episode, I sit down with Naomi, a passionate entrepreneur, mental health advocate, and mother, to explore her remarkable journey from a high-pressure finance career to building a life aligned with her values. Naomi shares how she embraced change amidst the chaos of pregnancy, COVID-19, and mental health challenges, creating opportunities for parents through her business ventures, including Our Gypsy Collection and a talent agency designed to provide flexible work.
Join us as Naomi opens up about:
- Leaving a Finance Career to Build a Life of Passion: Why she chose a spiritual, creative path over a corporate career and how her ventures reflect her personal growth.
- Navigating Mental Health Diagnoses: Her experiences with anxiety, OCD, ADHD, and major depressive disorder, and the challenges women face in receiving proper diagnosis and care.
- Motherhood Amidst Adversity: From pregnancy complications to the joy of motherhood, Naomi shares how she coped with fears of miscarriage and found strength through community.
- Mental Health Advocacy and Innovation: How Naomi is breaking stigmas with ideas like home birth-friendly Airbnbs and leading fundraisers for the Black Dog Institute.
Through her candid storytelling, Naomi reminds us of the importance of empathy, resilience, and supportive communities in managing life's toughest challenges. Whether you're navigating mental health struggles, balancing family life, or building a business, this episode offers insights and encouragement to keep moving forward.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
We would like to acknowledge the traditional
custodians of this land.
We pay our respects to theElders past, present and
emerging, for they hold thememories, the traditions and the
culture of the Aboriginal andTorres Strait Islander people
across the nation.
Warning this podcast containsexplicit language and discusses
(00:22):
sensitive topics related tomental health childhood trauma,
birth trauma, abuse, miscarriageand suicide.
Listener discretion is advised.
If you find these subjectsdistressing or triggering, we
recommend taking caution andconsidering whether to proceed
with listening.
If you or someone you know isstruggling, please reach out to
a mental health professional ora trusted individual for support
(00:43):
.
Your wellbeing is our priority.
G'day everyone.
Before we dive in, I wanted togive a quick update.
Some of you may have noticedI've been off social media
lately and new episodes havestopped.
I'm doing okay.
The podcast is still alive, butI've taken a step back from
social media to focus on mymental health, my family and my
career.
I don't have a set timeline formy return, but I'll release one
(01:07):
or two more episodes for 2024and that will be the conclusion
of season two.
After that, I'll take a shortbreak and be back with season
three in early 2025.
Also, I have some incrediblyexciting news.
Touched Out is a finalist in the2024 Australian Podcast Awards,
in both the parenting categoryand the editor's choice in
(01:28):
specialised podcasts category.
I'm truly honoured to berecognised alongside such
amazing creators.
Thank you to everyone who haslistened, rated, reviewed and
supported the show.
I couldn't have reached thispoint without you all.
Now let's get into today'sconversation with Naomi from
Romsey, an incredibleentrepreneur and mother who's
built multiple businesses whilenavigating mental health
(01:50):
challenges.
Her story is one of resilience,community support and balancing
life's many roles.
I hope you love it.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
It's been tough, so take a breath from everything
right here at home.
Take some time, it's alright.
You'll be fine after a touch ofa cat, it's alright.
(02:24):
The Touchdown Podcast.
Take all night, you'll be fine.
It's alright, the Touchdown.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Podcast.
Alright.
So today we've got Naomi fromRomsey.
How are you going, naomi?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I'm good.
I'm good, how are you?
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I'm well, thank you.
Thank you for joining me today.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
You're more than welcome, so we'll start off with
a little bit about yourself anda little bit about your family.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Okay, I'm 28.
I moved to Romsey when I wassix weeks pregnant, so that was
fun trying to move with morningsickness and, yeah, not ideal.
I have a few.
(03:16):
Well, I've got a couple ofbusinesses that I run from home
and I've got a 14 month olddaughter, and I've also got an
eight year old stepdaughter aswell.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Awesome, so you run multiple businesses from home
while being full-time mum.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
That must be a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
It is.
Yeah, it's definitely gettingharder the older she's getting,
obviously on the move a lot more, so it has its challenges.
But I really wanted somethingthat I could do without having
to leave her and without havingto put her into child care just
for my own anxiety.
So that's kind of where mysecond business has stemmed from
(03:51):
is trying to create somethingthat other mums or parents can
do the same thing, that they canstill earn an income whilst
being a parent.
Especially with the rising costof living, most people can't
afford not to work, so that'syeah, it's getting pretty crazy,
isn't it?
It's insane, absolutely insane.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So I know that you run one business, Our Gypsy
Collection.
Yes, do you want to tell me alittle bit about that.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, so I started that one.
It's been about five years andI was working in finance and I
was working from home and Ihated it.
I was crying every day.
I was a business developmentmanager and I had so much
anxiety around calling peoplenot cold calling, but trying to
(04:36):
build up relationships withpeople I knew nothing about and
so I thought I just want to dosomething that I enjoy every
single day, something that's notwork, and I grew up with
crystals and sort ofspirituality and I enjoy that
sort of thing.
So I just pretty much started.
(04:57):
I just started buying things, Istarted, I registered my
business, I did everything sortof within a day, which in
hindsight, was a mistake to doit that way, but-.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
The now or never kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
It was yeah, and it kind of it was never a full-time
thing, I was doing it on theside.
And then I started working as atravel agent and then it fell
to the side again and then COVIDhit and I picked it back up.
But then I went back to workand so it was kind of just off
on, off on.
And then I got pregnant and hadmy baby and now it's kind of
(05:32):
it's really picking back upagain and so that's yeah, that's
the scope of how that happenedand it's evolved.
I was sort of selling crystalsand now it's more crystal-based
products.
So I'm launching a crystaljewelry collection and do
candles and sell bohemianclothing as well.
So that's my product-basedbusiness.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Awesome.
And what are your otherbusinesses?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
So I have a talent agency slash virtual assistant
agency.
So that's kind of what's pickedup in the last few months and
that is where everything stemmedfrom, from me wanting to find
something that I could do fromhome or anywhere really, and
still be there for my daughter,and it's something that I want
to sort of, I guess, share withother people and sort of teach
(06:17):
them how they can do it as well.
Because it's yeah, it's beenamazing.
I did try to go back to work,not because I wanted to, because
we had to.
You know, interest rates weregoing through the roof and I was
on maternity leave and wedidn't expect, we didn't prepare
for it.
So I did start working casuallyand that was really hard because
I was breastfeeding, so youknow, I'm working, I'm pumping
(06:40):
before work, during work, afterwork, and just for a little bit
of money.
So it was really hard.
So then I started working forsomeone just doing a few hours a
day, just like email management, just really basic, and it kind
of grew and she liked what Iwas doing.
So she asked me to do morehours and more hours, and then
(07:03):
it got to a point where I'mdoing full-time hours, which is
great, and then she has quite alarge following on social media
and people were asking her whoshe uses to run her or to manage
her business, and she was kindenough to share my details,
along with a couple of otherpeople she works with, and
that's where it kind of took off.
(07:24):
But I didn't have anywhere todirect these people because I
was just doing it from my ownsort of personal page, and so I
thought maybe I could makesomething out of this.
And yeah, it's taken off.
I've got a lot of clientsstarting.
I'm able to charge more for mytime, which means that I can
(07:44):
work less hours, and I've gottwo of my sisters who are going
to be starting to do some workfor me as well, which it's
overwhelming because I haven'tplanned for it, but it's a good
overwhelming.
So my next step is to take thisand teach other people how to
do it, so that they don't haveto make that decision about
(08:06):
leaving their kids or beingstuck in a job that they hate.
So there's that business.
And then I haven't reallypicked this one up, but I have
registered a clothing line and Iregistered on my daughter's
first birthday, so it's going tobe for her.
So hopefully one day it'll bewomen's clothing, but hopefully
one day I can pass that down toher.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
So Very cool.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
A lot of fingers in different pies, huh.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Look at all beats working in finance.
I come from that world as well.
I did, you know, over a decadein call centers and in finance
roles, and it's just it's soulcrushing, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I was going to say it's soul destroying yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, I found myself like on the train every day,
just hoping that the train wouldfall off the track, just like
some shit would happen there.
I didn't have to go into thisfucking office again.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah Well, I mean, it wasn't until I was made
redundant from the first jobthat I got out of it, and then I
made my way back into it and Iwas like God, I've got to get
out of this because it'll justkeep happening.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
It's this weird black hole it pulls you in and it's
just horrible, horribleexperiences I actually, so I
left my finance job to work in aprison, which is just you know
like.
That says it all.
I'd rather go and risk my lifeand my health than write another
fucking finance report.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
That's so interesting .
I am so interested in that sideof things.
I dated someone who was aprison guard in a maximum
security prison, and it's justsome of the things you hear are
crazy.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I work in youth justice.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Okay, yeah, so it's different.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Different world, but definitely a lot more.
I'd say a lot more challengingbecause, from what I've heard,
adult correctional facilities,even though the dangers are a
lot higher, they happen a lotless because there's a little
bit more emotional regulation inadults.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
A bit more structure going on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
So it's a wild time, but I'm actually leaving that
space because we're closing downat the end of the year and I am
currently studying to become acounsellor.
So this podcast has kind of ledme on that journey.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
That's amazing.
That's so good.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
So we'll dive into your pastwith mental health and all of
the things surrounding that, ifyou're happy to do that.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Absolutely.
What do you want to know?
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Give me from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Okay.
So growing up I was veryparticular about things.
I would be very let's see, howcan I put this?
I was very particular, alwayson the go, loved a challenge,
and I loved school.
Growing up I was really, reallygood at school and it wasn't
(10:51):
until sort of grade six that myschool teacher, she, found a
program for high school to workin an accelerated program.
So what that was was doing sixyears of schooling in five.
So I finished year 12 when I was16.
And so I essentially got toskip a year.
It was just condensed,condensed down, and I guess the
(11:13):
first sign of actually realisingsomething was going on was
probably when my parentsdivorced.
I was about 12 or 13.
And the anxiety that I had whenI was little, it was just
maximized, it was just out ofcontrol.
I hated going to high school,which was completely different
for me.
I'd never experienced that,crying every day, just making
(11:34):
myself sick over it, and I spoketo several counselors and had
really bad experiences withcounselors.
I've just found that a lot ofthem were just very
surface-based.
They were just, they didn'tfeel like they cared.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
What was going on Really, yeah, exactly yeah, yeah
, I've found that with a lot ofcounsellors as well.
Yeah, just like tick and flick,like you're fine, off you go,
it's a lot of like let's talkabout your feelings, but not
let's fix how you're feeling, orlet's teach you how to fix your
feelings.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Exactly or find out what's really going on.
And I guess it was when I wasabout 15 that I started
experiencing extreme I guess OCDtendencies, like extreme.
I'd come home from school, haveto change my clothes, wouldn't
let people in my room, had tohave order, I was afraid of
(12:28):
germs, afraid of getting sick,afraid of things happening.
And I started seeing apsychiatrist and they diagnosed
obsessive compulsive disorderand major depressive disorder
and that was hard to sort ofaccept for me.
I didn't want to accept thatthere was something wrong with
me as a kid, like I just didn'tunderstand the label and I
(12:51):
didn't want a label.
And I internalized that I hidthat from everyone.
You know, going through highschool I hid it, I didn't want
to share it with anyone.
But then I got to year 12 and Idecided that I was sick of
hiding it and I was sick of youknow, sort of sheltering who I
was.
And so I shared it and you knowI'd had this class of people
(13:14):
that I'd gone the whole waythrough high school because we
were all in this acceleratedprogram and I've never really
talked about this.
But like I shared it with themand you know I thought these
people I've known them for fiveyears, six years.
You know a lot of them onsimilar journeys.
You know on the spectrum,things like that.
You know very intelligentpeople and it was the worst
(13:36):
thing I've ever done.
They made my life a living hell.
You know toying with me,touching my things on purpose.
I even had a teacher that wasteasing me and I was really
particular about like I didn'twant to use the laptops that we
had, like the shared laptops,and she called me out in front
of the class and wouldn't passmy.
So it was my final year ofschool and I stopped going to
(13:59):
her class because I didn't wantto be teased, and so she stopped
.
She wouldn't mark my work offeven though I'd done the work
because I didn't attend herclass.
And then there was times whereI, you know I would be sitting
alone because I, you know, Iisolated myself.
I'd sit alone and people wouldcome and just push my stuff off
the desk or, you know, come and,like you know, mess things up
(14:21):
for me, and that was really hardand I decided that I was like
you know, mess things up for me,and that was really hard and I
decided that I was like I'm notcoming back and that took a
little bit of time and it was areally internal battle because I
really wanted to finish highschool but I also didn't want to
be in front of these people.
So it took a bit of time and Iwent back.
I finished I was doing adiploma at the same time in
(14:42):
photography and so I finishedthat and I kind of just
distanced myself from everyoneand I started my first business
when I was six as a photographer.
And that was kind of my firstreal experiences with mental
health.
And I've been on medicationsince I was 15 for, like, my
antidepressants and you knowthere have been times where I've
(15:03):
tried to stop them and I'veended up in emergency, you know,
wanting to kill myself, andit's just been a really tricky
thing to deal with, especiallywhen people don't see that on
the outside.
They think you're fine, youknow You're not showing it, so
there's nothing wrong.
(15:24):
That was my experience, I think.
Yeah, I really struggled withthat.
That was my first sort ofexperience with with mental
health.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, just goes to show that you know, even though
you've got these kids thatyou've been friends with for you
know half a decade, who alsohave a range of mental health
issues, still had this severelack of empathy towards you when
you were, you know, vulnerableand honest with them.
And it just goes to show howemotional intelligence really,
really doesn't mature.
(15:54):
Like all, teenagers areassholes.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Literally yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
And I bet that you know being grown up.
Some of them would look backnow and be like oh, why did I do
that?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
It doesn't make it okay, but yeah, I did actually
have someone reach out to me acouple of years after high
school and apologize for what heput me through, which meant a
lot because I and I, whenever Italk to people like you know
family, they're like it'sbecause you fight back.
They're not going to do it topeople who are that vulnerable
(16:30):
and crippled with anxiety on theoutside that they can see is
going to break them.
So it was kind of like ablessing and a curse in a way.
It was like you're strongenough to take this, so we're
going to do it to you.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
My experience is quite the opposite.
I didn't fight back and I gotit even worse.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Really, oh my God.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, I was bullied relentlessly all through school
until like the later years ofschool where I was just fed up
and I was like, fucking fightback.
And I started fighting back andit died down a little bit.
Yeah, yeah but yeah, for themost part.
Like I was very much a freezeor flee kind of person, not a
fight person.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's yeah, like you said, it's one of
those things where it's hardbecause, yeah, there was these
clear mental health issues withmajority of the people in that
class.
You know all high-functioningin that class, you know all high
functioning intelligent peoplewith.
You know below the surfacemental health issues and still
(17:33):
had, you know, had that.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
So yeah, do you?
Think in retrospect.
You think it could be like themprojecting as well.
It's like I don't want to dealwith my shit, so let's just
focus on her shit.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, I think so.
I think it's a defensemechanism and it's, you know, if
everyone's taking it out on her, they're not going to focus on
me.
So yeah, I think that that wasdefinitely the case.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
And the only way we can change that is just by
normalizing mental health moreand more, which you know, that's
the whole point of podcast,really.
So you've got your diagnosis,you've been on meds, you've
finished school, you've startedyour business.
What does your life over thoseyears look like, once you've
started your photographybusiness?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, I think it was really good for me to have that
creative outlet and I think thatI've always wanted to have and
I think a part of it was and Ithink that I've always wanted to
have and I think a part of itwas a bit of control.
I've always wanted to have thatcontrol of my own life and I
guess it was just that I didn'tknow how to run the business and
you've got a set of skills butthat doesn't necessarily
(18:39):
translate into an income.
So I started working inhospitality as a hotel
receptionist.
I moved my way up to hotelsupervisor, so I did that for a
couple of years and by that timeI was 18.
And I guess I've never been thetype to like, growing up, you
know, friends would go out toparties and drink and that
(19:03):
wasn't for me and I lost friendsover that because I chose to
study and I chose school, and soI grew up doing that.
And when I finished high school, the friends that I did have,
they were all older, so theywere all going out, they were
all going to clubs and pubs andI was 16.
So I kind of had that two yearsof just doing, you know, my
(19:25):
business stuff.
So when I was 18 or 19, I foundmy way into finance.
I had a friend who asked if Iwanted to work with her and so I
got into equipment finance orhospitality equipment finance,
and that's how I got in thefinance industry.
And I found that around sort of20, 20 years old that's when I
(19:46):
sort of let loose.
I guess I had my moment of Ididn't have that youth, I didn't
go out, I didn't experienceeverything.
So I went down a really darkpath of just, you know, from
Thursday night to Sunday night,just party, party, party, party,
and I didn't like who I was,but I couldn't stop and it was
(20:09):
just this cycle, this cycle, andI think it was a lot of hurt
that I had, you know, because Iwas being treated awful by
people, by men, but I kept goingback for more and more and more
, and I knew, I know, and I knewthat it was not how I wanted to
be treated and but I justdidn't know what to do, how to
(20:31):
fix it.
And so that happened for quitea few years until I got to the
point of I don't want to do thisanymore, I don't want to be
treated this way, I don't wantto hate myself, I don't want to
regret the things that I'm doing.
And so I found myself in arelationship, a long-term
relationship, and we moved intogether.
We got a couple of dogs andthings were good.
(20:55):
Things were going good untilone day they weren't going good
and he said that he didn't wantto be with me anymore and kind
of took me by surprise, kind ofblew my mind and I was back at
rock bottom.
I had this house, had two dogs,and I found myself I had to
move back home and start allover again, and so that was
(21:19):
really really hard yeah, reallyhard and I found myself back in
that pattern of going out againand sorry.
And I experienced somethingthat I've never really talked
about, but I and that was reallythat was, you know that was
tough because you know it was ona night out and the police, you
(21:42):
know you go down the route ofreporting it and it got to a
point of them saying look, it'sgoing to be your word against
his.
So it's up to you what you wantto do, but it's going to be two
years of hell, you know.
So what do you want to do?
Do you want to pursue it or doyou want to drop the case?
So that was really tough.
(22:03):
So I decided to drop the case,which that's hard, because then
you think and it's kind of likeno one believes you because you
know, and I guess, that I dideverything that I needed to do,
so that it's on record.
So if it does happen to someoneelse, then I've got a better
chance of something sort ofhappening.
But yeah, that was kind ofanother turning point in my life
(22:24):
.
And then I've got a betterchance of something sort of
happening.
But yeah, that was kind ofanother turning point in my life
.
And then I went overseas.
So I got a scholarship to go toIndia.
So I was in the financeindustry and we were helping
people over in India andvillages through microfinance so
women in particular helpingthem by giving them money for
them to start their business andthen give the money back and
(22:45):
then we'd give it to more people.
So I applied for a scholarshipand I got to go over there.
And that happened just before Igot to go.
So it was kind of it happenedat the right time.
I decided to extend the timeover there.
So I ended up going to India.
I went to Dubai, zambia,zimbabwe.
So I ended up going to India.
I went to Dubai, zambia,zimbabwe, egypt, and that was so
(23:07):
good for me.
I was on my own, you know.
Yeah, I think I was like 21 or20, 21, you know, mum didn't
want me to go to Africa bymyself, but it was the best
thing that I've ever done.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I came back, just get away from it.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
All it was so good yeah, it was so good just to be
on my own, because I'd neverreally been on my own and that's
kind of where my love fortravel stemmed from.
So when I got back and you know, I decided that I wanted to
pursue that.
So I ended up doing a diplomaof travel and tourism and
getting into travel agent workand I ended up meeting my now
(23:43):
partner in the finance industry,so before I left the finance
industry and yeah, so got intothat and then COVID hit.
So I was stood down for a yearand then got back.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Sorry, I missed all of that.
You completely froze.
So you met your partner in thefinance industry.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Yeah, so I met your partner in the finance industry.
Yeah, so I met my partner inthe finance industry before I
was made redundant.
And then I moved into being atravel agent.
So I finished my diploma oftravel and tourism and worked in
that industry.
And then COVID hit and I wasstood down for a year and that's
when I sort of focused more onmy business and then they stood
(24:26):
me back up.
So I went back into that anddecided I want to have a baby,
but I also have endometriosis,so I thought it was going to
take a really long time toconceive, which is what I was
told.
I'd had surgery to remove cystsand we fell pregnant.
So that was.
That was really good it was.
Yeah, it was a bit of asurprise, but yeah.
(24:47):
And then we built our house outin Romsey and we've been here
two years in November, but thenit wasn't until I had my
daughter that I went downanother path of diagnosis for my
mental health, because I justfound that something wasn't
quite right, and so I've justbeen diagnosed with ADHD as well
(25:07):
.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Hey, welcome to the club.
That's a whole new lane to bein, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Oh my God, but it makes sense for me, like I just
have so much more understandingabout who I am Like you said
before and I didn't want to jumpinto it too quickly, but like
my fingers in so many pies andlike just want to do everything
and like Just jump here, jumphere, jump here.
But like yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
There's just so so many people that are, you know,
25, 35 that are getting thesediagnoses, and there's so many
people out there that are justso dismissive of it because
they're like, oh, it's just afucking fad, it's just like the
new trend.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
And what they don't realize is it's not a trend.
And what they don't realise isit's not a trend it's a real
thing.
That's happening because we allfell through the cracks,
because we didn't fit thattypical mould of ADD or ADHD
back in the you know 90s andearly 2000s, where you know the
kids that had ADHD were likeflipping tables and bouncing off
the walls and telling teachersto go fuck themselves.
(26:09):
They didn't realise there'sdifferent types of ADHD.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, it's wild.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Well, congratulations .
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Thank you and it's like it was so nice to speak to
a psychiatrist and for him tosay like, especially, you know,
a lot of women fall through thecracks because it's all
internalized.
It's like you said, they don'tproject it, they're not, you
know, disruptive or they're not,you know, like flipping tables
and things like that.
So it was just, it was so nice,but again I did.
(26:40):
I was in a bit of denial atfirst because I didn't want to
have that stigma.
You hear ADHD and a lot ofpeople still think it's flipping
tables.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
It's telling teachers to go find something else.
This one's going to be too much.
Yeah, yeah, too much work, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Also, you know I'm just adding to.
You know I've got anxiety, ocd,mdd, adhd.
You're like I'm just rackingthem up.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, that's been a bit of a learning curve.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
The really cool thing about ADHD.
Sorry to butt in no you're allright.
Especially with diagnoses inwomen.
I found out that all of themarkers and the diagnosing
process for ADHD it's all gearedtowards men and that's why so
many women don't get diagnosedwith it.
So my wife has also beendiagnosed with ADHD last year or
(27:25):
start of this year maybe, butyou know she had all of those
diagnoses that you've had too.
You know she was diagnosedbipolar, not bipolar, sorry, bpd
bipolar.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yep, yep, what's Borderline personality disorder?
That's the one.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah, thank, you Sorry oh you're all right.
And there's so many cases ofmisdiagnosing BPD.
It's like textbook ADHD orautism as well.
It's wild.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
I'm really really interested in kind of like that
space when it comes topsychiatry Absolutely, and that
was something that when I wasyounger I sort of wanted.
I did consider that path goingdown, that you know because I
have had so many experiencesaround that.
But I just don't think that I'm, I don't think I'm in the right
head space for it and I don'tthink that I could counsel
people through it when I'mtrying to understand myself.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Well, I'm 36 and it's taken me this long to kind of
be like okay, well, it's time tofind a career that I actually
enjoy, instead of just going towork for a paycheck and finding
a job that will give me the mostmoney.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
It's scary, you know, especially with ADHD and my
inability to concentrate forlong periods of time, like going
back to school as a 36-year-oldwhile I'm working full-time
with three kids.
That's fucking scary.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah, that's a lot.
That is a lot Like.
Are you, if you don't mind measking, are you on medication
for it?
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah, yeah, I'm on Vivant 50 milligrams.
I'm just about to go up, though, because it's just it's not
doesn't have the same kick thatit did when I first went on it.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
That's where I'm in sort of a crossroad.
Because I'm still breastfeeding, I can't have the medication,
but I also don't want to takethat away from my daughter.
So I've been really there'sbeen this internal conflict
because I know that I'msuffering in other ways, because
I really do need it, but I alsodon't want to take that away
from her.
So I'm trying to hold out aslong as I can.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Just kind of suffering through it a little
bit longer.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Must be a hard space to live in.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah, it is yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
So I want to jump back a little bit and just talk
a little bit more about your OCD, because you're the first
person I've had on here with OCD, so it's not something that I
understand heaps about, like Ionly have like base knowledge
about it.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
So with your OCD, it was very kind of germ-focused.
Yes, like I don't Okay, yeah,it was very kind of germ focused
.
Yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Did you have like those textbook, like rituals,
like having to you know tap yourhead 10 times or else I was
going to die, or something likethat?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Not so much the rituals.
My ritual was hand washing.
There are a lot of forms of OCD.
You know a lot of people likeorder and I think that the term
ocd is used quite loosely withpeople they're like, oh, I'm so
ocd, but it goes deeper thanthat.
So there's lots of things thatcome to through ocd.
You know intrusive thoughts.
(30:23):
A lot of people with ocd havethoughts that they don't want to
have.
They can't help those thoughtsand they're not things that they
would necessarily act on, butthey just come into the mind.
You know things like hurtingother people, which you would
never do, but it's justsomething that's intrusive.
That's you know, that's sort of.
So you know, intrusive thoughtsare something that I've
experienced before, not all thetime Hand washing.
(30:46):
There are certain things that Ireally struggle with to touch
cash money.
So the thought process behindit is where's that money been?
How many people have touched it?
Like you think about thosethings, things like bins.
You know the germs there.
You know you're going to toucha bin but then you're going to
go and, I don't know, touch yourface or whatever it is.
(31:07):
So it's it's kind of like athought process back of of that
which has really, really, reallyimpacted my relationships and
that has been a key cause insome of my relationships
breaking down, because I knowit's irrational, I know that
it's not, you know, nothing sobad is going to happen from it,
but I just can't get past it andit's kind of, and for me like
(31:33):
growing up.
Now that I look back, it wasthings like I had to have
everything had to be the numbereight.
You know I would have cerealand you know the Sultanas in my
cereal had to have eight.
If there was more than eight,get rid of them.
So those sorts of things youknow as a kid, you know walking
on a footpath, one foot in eachpath, you know don't step on the
(31:54):
lines.
So there are lots of forms ofOCD and a lot of people have.
You know I've got some friendswho have got severe fears around
toxins, like you know, thingsbeing toxic and chemicals.
That sort of thing doesn'tbother me as much.
It's more a cleanliness sort ofthing which is very difficult
(32:15):
to explain to people and forpeople to understand.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
So OCD, I know that it does have big roles with ADHD
and autism as well.
So with my ADHD and autism, theintrusive thoughts are
something that I haveexperienced, unfortunately and
you know there's this massivepush on TikTok at the moment
with you know I let my intrusivethoughts win and it's just like
(32:39):
pouring a bit of water out orsomething.
Oh, yeah.
And like there's this big pushfrom the community of ADHD
people and autistic people, it'slike you need to learn the
difference between impulsivethoughts and intrusive thoughts.
Yes, Like, intrusive thoughtsare fucking heinous.
They're horrible, horriblethings, Like the worst things
(33:01):
you could possibly think.
Just pop into your head andyou're like God damn it, no, no.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yes, and it's so hard because you want to like for me
.
I've had those thoughts and Iwant to share them with my
partner, but at same time I'mlike that's just take this shit
to my grave exactly, and it's so, so hard because, unless you've
experienced it, you know andthat's, and, like you said
before, like they are allconnected and I, my psychiatrist
(33:29):
, said that I do have a lot ofautistic tendencies and autism
does run within my family, sothat they all, they all tie in
together and it's so hard todifferentiate what's OCD, what's
, you know, the autism, what'sADHD.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
So yeah, it's really hard.
My, my wife, by chance, justone night we started talking
about intrusive thoughts andshe's like do you have them?
And I was like, yeah, all thetime, unfortunately.
And she's like, do you havethem?
And I was like, yeah, all thetime, unfortunately.
And she's like what type ofstuff?
Though?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
And I'm like, oh, it's such a hard thing to talk
about.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
And I was like you know what, like you're my person
and I trust you, so like wetalked out our intrusive
thoughts and it was a big loadoff my back.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
And for her to experience it.
It would be so nice to be ableto talk with someone without
judgment.
Yeah, and it's, it's so hard.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
I'm trying to sort of teach or inform my partner
without going into detail yeahjust so that he can understand
that the torment, because it'sit's torturous, it is yeah yeah,
just for anyone listening whodoesn't experience those types
of things, I won't divulge likemy intrusive thoughts, but to
give an example, you could justbe living your life doing
(34:41):
something as mundane as likewashing the dishes and then all
of a sudden in your mind it'llbe like just an image of you,
like having sex with your mother, or just something completely
and utterly disgusting, likeyour baby in some sort of sexual
position.
Yeah, and having those thoughtsmakes you feel like there's
(35:01):
something just innately wrongwith you, something that can't
be fixed Like full disclosure.
I have had those types ofthoughts before in some aspects
and I've had to sit there andlook in the mirror and be like
are you a fucking pedophile?
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, what's wrong with you?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Yeah, and I'm not a pedophile because I don't have
that attraction, like itrepulses me but unfortunately
those images pop into your headand there's nothing you can do
to stop it and it fucking sucks.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
So and the more you push them away, the more they
come back, and that's somethingthat I've learned through
therapy is to let them in sothat you can think it through as
hard as it is.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
But then it sort of helps them to go away.
But yeah, you're completelyright, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
It's really hard, it's sucky, yeah, and it's
something that all of us in thatcommunity can definitely
empathize with, because it's alllived experiences.
And unfortunately, you knowthere's people out there that
don't have those thoughts andwill instantly jump to judgment
because that's not the way theirbrain works.
(36:06):
They instantly think, well, I'mnot like that.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
So if you're like that, you're fucked.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
It's a pretty sucky kind of space to live in.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
It's really tricky so with your OCD over the years.
Have you found ways toalleviate those compulsions?
Is it something that's still apart of your everyday life?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Yeah, so it's definitely a part of my everyday
life.
The medication that I'm on,I've been on for about 10 years
and I'm on a very high dosage.
I'm on 200 milligrams, which isone of the higher dosage that
you can have.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
And what's that medication?
Do you mind me?
Speaker 2 (36:41):
asking Sertraline, so Zoloft.
So I did find it hard because Iwas worried about it.
When I was pregnant and beforeI was pregnant I did talk to a
psychiatrist and the doctorsbecause I was worried about how.
When I was pregnant and beforeI was pregnant I did talk to a
psychiatrist and the doctorsbecause I was worried about how
it would impact my pregnancy.
But there's been no studies toshow the effects because they
(37:02):
won't test it on a live sort ofpregnancy.
So I did reduce the medicationonce I was through my first
trimester to try and avoid orlower any risks of my baby
having withdrawals when she wasborn.
So that was really trickybecause I was kind of coming
down off a medication and also,you know, I wasn't drinking
(37:24):
energy drinks, which I wasdrinking a lot before I was
pregnant.
So that was really tricky.
So I did find that my OCDtendencies were increased and
when I'm stressed or when I'manxious I find that they come
out a lot more.
So I'll want to cleanexcessively.
Like you know, my partner couldlook at the house and go it's
clean, what's wrong?
And I'm looking at it, goingit's filthy, Like there's, you
(37:48):
know, there's stuff everywhereand there's like one thing on
the bench.
So that has definitely beensomething that I've noticed is,
you know, when I'm anxious itdoes present itself more, but I
have found coping mechanisms,and I guess a way that I've been
able to cope is to write thingsdown and create lists to sort
(38:08):
of try and get everything out ofmy head, which does create
anxiety for myself as well,because then I have all these
lists and I'm overwhelmed by thelist.
So I'm like, oh my God.
So that it's kind of like it'sit's more just managing and
trying to get through it.
It's not sort of likealleviating it.
I still have my things.
You know, no-goes is touchingmoney, like if I touch money I
(38:31):
have to wash my hands straightaway, or wet wipes or something
bins.
My partner puts the bins outfor me and then I make him wash
his hands as soon as he getsback inside.
So like there are things thatare like my go-tos and you know,
like public transport's anotherone.
I hate it, can't do it, and it'sjust trying to manage that the
(38:51):
best that I can.
But there's no fix for it andit's not something that I've
accepted, that I'm ever going tolive without, which is a really
big thing to sort of accept,because I don't want to live
like this.
I don't, you know, it's notsomething that I enjoy.
I think that the mental healthissues that I have have
definitely helped me be theperson I am and and you know,
(39:15):
especially when it comes to youknow my businesses and being
able to be empathetic towardsother people.
I think that they've definitelyhelped me, yeah, but they've
also hindered me as well.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, it's always thatdouble-edged sword, isn't it you
?
Know I wouldn't be the person Iam without these things, yeah,
but maybe that person withoutthose things would be happier,
but maybe more of an asshole.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
A bit more selfish you never know.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yeah, Like you could, I'd love to live just a day,
just a day without the stuff.
Yeah.
Just to see how it is, but Idon't think overall I'd like to
change anything, because it justI just am.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
And I think being me is good enough.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, like it's, it's,it's, it's got its, it's got its
blessings.
And you know, I think my mainconcern and my main thing is
trying to bring my daughter upwithout it impacting her too
much.
You know, I don't want it toaffect her and I've been doing
things and being exposed.
(40:15):
You know, exposure, therapy,things that I would never do
beforehand, that I am pushingmyself to do for my daughter.
You know, things like placentas.
To me that's just a big room ofgerms, a big germ fest, you know
, oh, yeah, God, yeah but youknow and you know taking her to
those and and I'm souncomfortable the whole time I'm
(40:36):
there and as soon as I leave Iwant to get changed and have a
shower, but I'm trying to pushthrough to do those things so
that she doesn't miss out um,yeah, yeah, that's a hard one
because we're we're we're notlike a germ, a germaphobe family
or anything like that, butwe're very much a stay-at-home
family and our kids do suffer alittle bit from it, you know.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
They're very much like let's go to the skate park
and like that means we have togo outside into the world and
that's a lot.
But you know we had my son'sbirthday at Jungle Kids in
Wallin.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Oh yes, yep, that's the play centre I went to.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Oh, in wallen.
Oh yes, yep, that's wherethat's the play center I went to
.
Oh okay, yeah, so we had hisbirthday last weekend, yeah and
god, it's just a big day itreally is like you get home and
you're like fuck and it's alwaysso packed there and it's so, so
packed, so stimulating like,overstimulating like yeah I get
that sensory overload.
There's things going here andscreaming and like, oh my god
yeah, we had like a bunch ofkids that weren't a part of our
(41:37):
party like coming in trying tosuss out our birthday cake and
we'd have parents like we'd haveto go find their parents for
them there's just so many peoplethat are just like run free
children, do what you want Iliterally had a kid climbing up
me, like this toddler climbingup me, and he was coughing in my
face and I'm sitting there likeoh no where's your mum?
(42:00):
Like where's your mum, but alsolike Throw him in the ball pit.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
I'm like get off me.
And I'm like my friend saysshe's like you always attract
them.
I'm like I don't know.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, it's a weird place that if you haven't been
there already.
There's a play center insunbury that's much bigger the
mcdonald's or something.
Yeah some weird mcdougall ormcdougall's yeah, mcdougall, yes
, yeah, much, much more spaceytry that out.
Hide in the corner by myself,my wife and I have actually
discussed opening a play centerfor ourselves that would be
(42:35):
amazing and, like we do, sensorydays for parents and kids have
some nice music going and thingslike that yeah but then also
like the fact that if we go toour own play center, I could
play in it at night time exactlyfucking cool, do like a, like
an, adults only night that wouldbe amazing.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
And Do like an adults only night, that would be
amazing.
And like our house is kind ofturned into a play centre.
We've got a mini jumping castle, a ball pit, a slide and swing
and I'm like you know what.
We don't need to go out, we canjust do it here.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Yeah, straight up, invite us over.
Exactly I keep planning onchanging our theatre room into a
sensory room.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
It's just money.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
I know that's what our theatre room is.
It's just turned into a yeah, aplay centre.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
So yet again I want to go back a little bit and talk
through your pregnancy and howthat was for you, like as far as
your health and your mentalhealth goes, and how was the
birth.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Fucking tough, to be honest, fucking tough, I bet
goes and how was the birth?
fucking tough, to be honest Ibet I was to start off with.
I was sick as a dog, like I wassick from the moment I found
out I was pregnant to when Igave birth.
So I was on medication for that.
And that was really trickybecause I was still working as a
travel agent and we werewearing masks because covid and
I was, you know, trying to youknow not gag, and I was, you
(43:53):
know, trying to you know not gag, and I was running out the back
vomiting between talking tocustomers and it was awful.
And at around 14 weeks I wokeup and I'd been bleeding and my
heart stopped.
I was like, oh shit, like I'mgoing to have a miscarriage.
And so we went to the hospitaland again COVID, so they
wouldn't let my partner comewith me.
(44:13):
So I sat in emergency for, Ithink, six hours bleeding,
bawling my eyes out, and mypartner, aidan, had to sit in
the cafe in the hospital, likehe was literally a room or so
away and I was just texting himyou know, updates.
And so I finally got to see adoctor and did an ultrasound and
they said that I'd had a whatwas it?
A hemorrhage in my placenta andusually it's trauma-based, so
(44:41):
they couldn't actually work outwhat it was.
Usually it's, you know, ifyou've been in a car accident or
you know you've fallen orsomething's actually hit you.
But I think it was because myplacenta was anterior, so it was
at the front.
So I was on bed rest for alittle bit and had to get some
follow-up scans and you knowthey had threatened miscarriage
on the, the documents, whichthat was triggering for me, like
(45:01):
I was.
Yeah, I was so, so scared andso we got through that.
And then I ended up with COVIDat about 20 weeks and I was
really, really sick.
So I had a blood pressuremonitor and oxygen reader that I
had to.
Every day the hospital wouldcall me and get my readings and,
you know, follow up ultrasounds.
(45:22):
So that was a lot and because Ihad COVID, my 20 week scan was
pushed out.
So it was about 22 weeks when Ihad my scan, which is like the
latest point that they can sortof, I think, terminate the
pregnancy if something's wrong,and we had my scan and then at
the end of the scan he's likeokay, we just need to double
back to the heart and have alook at the heart again.
(45:43):
I didn't get a good image.
I was like, okay, that's fine.
And then so he sat us down atthe end and said, look, we found
something that's not quiteright.
And I was like, what do youmean?
Like one of the arteries inyour baby's heart is going, it's
, it's, it's it's in the wronglocation or it's it's?
You know, there's something notright.
I can't tell you.
You need to see a cardiologist.
So you know, I left thatappointment absolutely bawling
(46:11):
my eyes out, and they made uswait.
They made us wait a month forthis appointment and that was
pure torture.
And we saw the cardiologist andthey sat down and they drew an
image of the heart and they drewan image of where all the
arteries were supposed to go.
And they drew where mydaughter's artery was, and so it
was on the right side, but ithad formed in a different
location, so it was doing whatit needed to do, but it was just
(46:31):
taking the longer route.
So they said that if it was onthe opposite side it would be a
serious issue and she would mostlikely have something like Down
syndrome.
But being on the left side,then it is a small possibility
that she could have DeGeorgesyndrome, which is like, from my
understanding I think it's like, you know, learning
disabilities and sort of thing.
(46:52):
But they couldn't test it untilshe was born.
So that was quite frightening.
And towards the end of thepregnancy I was struggling.
I was I put on so much weight,like just fluid I think I put on
27 kilos or something and and Iwas just struggling, I was
crying every day.
You know, I lowered mymedication and I, just I was
(47:14):
crying every day.
You know, I lowered mymedication and I just I went to
the doctor, I went to myappointment.
I was like I just I need herout, I need to get her out.
And so they had booked me infor an induction.
The following night my watersbroke.
So I got up to go to the toiletand my waters broke, but I was
bleeding quite a lot.
So I called the hospital andthey said come straight,
straight in.
And so we went to the hospitaland I had this like this I spent
(47:36):
nine more, actually most of mylife.
I'd pictured how I wanted thisbirth to go.
You know, I just wanted thisreally beautiful, pain-free, in
the bath, just lovely, likeexperience, and I got everything
but that, of course so you andmy wife sound like the same
person, like you see me keepkind of chuckling to myself.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
It's just, the similarities are uncanny.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Well, I got to the hospital and they checked and
they found meconium in my waters, which meant that my baby had
done a poo, which they told methat they couldn't differentiate
whether it was just because shehad matured and it was her
first poo or it was because shewas distressed.
So they said I couldn't go homeand that they needed to start
(48:22):
me, like they needed to do aninduction to sort of get her out
, which meant that I wasn'tallowed to go in the bath
because my waters had broken.
And that was the first thingthat sort of was off the list.
I was like, okay, all right, Ireally wanted to go in the bath,
okay.
So they said, you can have ashower.
You know my waters are broken,covered in blood.
You know, have a shower beforewe start the induction.
(48:43):
But having a shower, I'm hookedup to all these monitors and
it's just like you know it wascontractions monitors.
I'm like this is not good.
So contractions monitors.
I'm like this is not good.
So then they started me on thedrip because I'd already had my
waters broken.
That was kind of the next thingand up until that point.
So I'd already been havingcontractions since like 8 pm the
(49:05):
night before and this was 6 amthe next day, and I was fine,
like the pain was fine, and thenthey put me on the drip and
things went from zero to ahundred, like it was awful, and
they had to keep turning up thedosage every half an hour and I
got to a point I think it waslike 11am, and I was like I'm
(49:25):
struggling, like get me the gas,get me something.
So I got the gas, get me theepidural.
So I had the epid epidural butI've got scoliosis in my back
and so they couldn't get it inthe right spot.
So that failed.
So they had to get their headanesthetist to come in and redo
that and so so they did that.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Have you heard my wife's birth story?
Speaker 2 (49:49):
I haven't.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
She's got a twisted spine as well.
Oh really, yeah, they had to doher epidural like six times.
Oh, my fucking God Her fuckingback was an absolute war ground,
sorry to interrupt.
It's just again moresimilarities you and her need to
be friends, mate.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
Yes, and it's so hard Like you're in absolutely
excruciating pain, yet you'relaying here, like you're sitting
here trying not to move.
So anyway, they put that in andthen I stopped progressing.
So I think they checked me like.
I think it was like a year.
I don't know a year, a couple ofhours later, and still hadn't
(50:32):
progressed.
And it got to a point where itwas like it was like 8.30 at
night and they're like we, oh,they needed to break my waters
again too.
So they broke it another twotimes and they said like if
you're not progressing, we needto do something.
And you know, at that point Iwas kind of like I was in
between.
I was like distraught becauseanything like I did not want to
have a cesarean.
(50:53):
That was the furthest thingthat I wanted.
But I kind of I was defeated, Iwas exhausted.
I'd been, you know, in labourfor like 18, 19 hours or
something like that.
And so I was like, okay, allright.
And then so they did the finalcheck and then he walked up to
the side of the bed and he'slike look.
And I was like, yeah, I'm goingto have a cesarean, aren't?
I Like, yeah, he's like, yeah,we need to do an emergency
cesarean, get her out, you know,because I'd also had to have
(51:17):
antibiotics because my watershad broken so long ago the risk
of infection and so they took mein for my emergency cesarean
and like, and like it's asurreal experience.
It's kind of you're in between.
It's like you're watching yourbody but you've got no control
over it and it's like yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
I don't even know how to explain it.
My wife had two caesareans andshe fucking hated them.
Like the first one she was likethe second.
She had to go under becausethey couldn't do the spinal
block.
None of the medication wasworking, oh shit.
But what she hated about thecaesareans for one was like
feeling like a failure, like herbody was made to make babies
(52:00):
but it couldn't push the babiesout.
So that was her biggest thing.
But the second biggest thingwas her not being in control of
her body.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
Yeah, and that sucked most of her.
Yeah, the feeling of being numband just just watching.
You know, someone you know pulla baby from you and and not
then they wouldn't, you know,let me watch, or anything like
that.
You know the sheets up, sort ofthing.
So I kept looking back at theclock just to see what time she
was going to be born.
And they pulled her out and shecried once and then she stopped
(52:29):
crying and I said like why isn'tshe crying?
And so they took her and theyhad to like work on her and I
was trying to look back over myshoulder but then I started like
just convulsing and I didn'tknow it at the time, but I was
hemorrhaging and and I washemorrhaging and I was just like
trying to listen to her crying.
(52:50):
So they worked on her and thenthey brought her over to me and
they put her down.
But then I was convulsing and Iwas vomiting and I couldn't
hold her.
So my partner took her and theywent and they worked on me and
you know I didn't get to do theskin-to-skin, I pretty much just
passed out after it all.
I was just so exhausted.
It was like 28 and a half hoursof labor and I could hear them
(53:16):
and I could hear them talkingand I could hear that he was
doing the skin to skin.
But I couldn't.
I was so tired, I couldn't openmy eyes.
And I just remember the nextmorning opening my eyes and
looking over the side and mypartner was asleep on the couch
and they let him stay.
I got an exemption because ofmy mental health and then my
daughter in the little you knowbassinet and I couldn't move,
(53:39):
you know I was in pain and hewas asleep.
So I literally got my phonebecause I didn't even remember
what we called her.
I didn't remember anything.
I got my phone and I like movedit and I took a photo, like I
zoomed in and took a photo ofthe little card that they put in
, just, and I like got my phone,I like zoomed in just to see
what her name was and herdetails.
And yeah, it was justincredible, like crazy, yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:01):
Do you feel like you've moved past all of that
trauma, or is that stuff thatyou still hold on to?
Speaker 2 (54:08):
I struggled a lot.
I went and had a session withthe hospital so they contacted
me to go through my birthbecause I didn't understand.
I didn't understand whyeverything happened.
I didn't understand, like shewasn't in distress, why did I
need to have an emergencycesarean?
Why did I need to have theinduction?
And they told me that she wasasynclitic.
(54:30):
I think it is.
So her head was tilted and itwas hitting my cervix, so it was
swelling her head and it wasswelling my cervix.
So the way they put it to me.
I couldn't have done anything.
Like she was that far into thepelvis that they couldn't see
that her neck, her head wastilted.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
So like her body was trying to push down but her neck
was twisting each time.
Speaker 2 (54:50):
Yeah, so it was just like just hitting me and so she
just wasn't progressing, likeshe was just hitting.
And so, look, I still have alot of issues around it and I
really, really, really hope thatI can do a natural birth the
next time around.
And I mean, I don't know thatthere was anything that I could
have done differently.
I don't know that there wasanything that I could have done
(55:11):
differently.
I don't know.
I'm in two minds.
I feel like I could have doneit, but they're telling me I
couldn't have, so I don't know.
The next birth I said I want todo it from home.
I want to have a home birth.
I want to have, you know,control over who's in my space.
Like I didn't get to labor athome.
I didn't get to labor at home.
I didn't get to, had no control, and for someone that has
obsessive compulsive disorder,having control is everything you
(55:36):
know, and so that's what Istruggle with, I think, is
having that taken away from me.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
Definitely, if there was one thing I could go back
and change with any of our birthstories, it would be to give my
wife the okay to do a homebirth.
That's my biggest regret.
She always wanted to do a homebirth and I was terrified of
that because I wasn't reallyeducated, especially just after
(56:05):
our first birth.
She also hemorrhaged and likebaby was born unresponsive and
there was a lot of traumasurrounding all of that.
So I was like to have thatgoing on in our home, away from
medical care and things likethat, like that's probably out
of the realm of possibility formy own comfort.
Speaker 2 (56:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:19):
And she went along with that, and that's something
that I regret and that'ssomething that I hold a lot of
guilt towards.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
But it's something that you don't know, you know
Exactly, and it's so hardbecause, and especially where we
live, we're not, you know, fiveminutes from a hospital, and
that's it does play on my mindand I think I would only do it
if I have, you know, an easierpregnancy.
We did have a lot ofcomplications, so, you know, in
that regard I'm thankful, but atthe same time I just feel like
(56:51):
I'm thankful but at the sametime I just feel like, yeah, a
lot was taken out of my handsand I do have the same concerns.
You know what happens if baby'sunresponsive or if I hemorrhage
.
You know it's 50 minutes to thenearest, you know, to the
hospital.
So it's, yeah, it's a lot toconsider, but people have been
doing it for, you know, hundredsand hundreds of years.
Speaker 1 (57:08):
So yeah, let's start a business together.
Mate, we'll start home birthAirbnbs.
Yeah, somewhere close to ahospital.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
Home births in the ranges.
Speaker 1 (57:21):
yeah, We'll buy an apartment and turn it into a
nice little birthing suite.
Beautiful, just close to ahospital, so people can have
their own space.
Speaker 2 (57:29):
They can have birthing baths outside, and, oh,
it'd be great.
That would be good, wouldn't it?
Speaker 1 (57:35):
Yeah.
So I mean, yeah, quite a storyand quite a birth story.
It's a lot of trauma and a lotof healing and learning every
day about yourself.
So, yeah, our stories aren'toverly dissimilar.
Speaker 2 (57:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:51):
After we've wrapped up, I'll send you through the
episode where my wife talksabout her birth, if you're
interested.
Speaker 2 (57:56):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (57:56):
You might find a little bit of healing in just
listening to other people gothrough similar things.
Speaker 2 (58:01):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
So before we wrap up, is there anything else you want
to throw out into the world?
You can plug your businessesonce more, real quick.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
Cool, all right.
So we've got our gypsycollection, then we've got your
ideal day agency and then we'vegot Elkie May, the label.
So they're my three babies, Ithink.
Just want to let everyone knowthat, be you like, be you
unapologetically, you knowpeople are going to not like who
you are.
Those people don't pay yourbills.
(58:30):
Those people aren't, you know,are going to not like who you
are.
Those people don't pay yourbills, those people aren't, you
know, living your life and Ithink you've got to do what's
best for you and that that canbe different for everyone.
You know my choice to stay homeand work from home and and try
to manage things that way.
It's not for everyone, you know, and that that's not me saying
that that's the right way to doit.
Like, if you want to go backinto the workforce and that's
what you want to do, do that.
(58:51):
But just don't let anyonedictate what you should do or
what you think is the rightthing, and just be kind to
people.
Like, just you know, I justwant to remove the stigma around
mental health, like, whetheryou know it or not and whether
you believe it, every singleperson I thoroughly believe on
this earth has some form ofmental illness or some form of
(59:13):
mental illness tendencies ortrauma or something, whether
they know it, whether it'ssubconscious, whether you know
it's diagnosed.
So I just feel like we need tobe kinder to people and be more
genuine.
Just yeah, I think that that'smy main thing.
My main thing, yeah, do you.
And more genuine, just yeah, Ithink that that's my main thing.
Speaker 1 (59:32):
My main thing?
Speaker 2 (59:32):
Yeah, do you, and you know.
Speaker 1 (59:34):
Do you Be kind?
Speaker 2 (59:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (59:37):
Have fun in life, but don't fuck up the fun of other
people.
Exactly, that's my mantra yeah,absolutely yeah absolutely
Awesome, yeah, so I mean, thestigma of mental health is
something that's ever changingin public and in our community,
and it's conversations like thisthat are definitely helping
move that along.
So I do appreciate your timetoday and I do appreciate your
(59:59):
vulnerability in speaking aboutyour experiences, because I can
guarantee you that there'ssomeone out there that's
experienced similar and willtake a lot from this
conversation.
Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
Yeah, so we're all in it to help each other.
Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
In October I am doing a fundraiser.
I'm walking 100 kilometers forthe Black Dog Institute to raise
money.
I love them and because you'realso local, I'll probably be in
contact with you.
See, if you want to go for awalk, I might try to get some of
the locals that I've had on thepodcast to get a little group
together maybe do a lap or twoaround Lancefield Park.
Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
That's the only way I'll exercise.
Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
With other people.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Yeah, that'll definitely be a cause I'm the
same.
Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
I'm literally a meter from my home gym and I look at
it every day and I'm like Ishould do something.
No, I gym and I look at itevery day and I'm like I should
do something.
Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
No, I'd rather eat instead.
Yeah, not about that life,that's it All right.
Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Well, thank you very much.
Naomi, Appreciate it.
And enjoy your day.
Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
You too Bye.
Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Bye, bye, bye.
Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
Bye, bye, bye, to make it so my life's a better
place.
If there's one thing I see,then your only thing is me Just
knowing that I'm trying to makea change.
(01:01:20):
Can I put it all on me,responsibilities, and all the
other nonsense coming byrepeatedly?
But there's one thing I knowit's knowing to let go.
Just knowing that I'm trying tomake a change, does it seem too
(01:01:44):
much just to ask for love?
Cause there's many things thatI do over, and I've got a lot,
but I won't give up On thosemany things that I do over.
We would like to acknowledge the traditional
custodians of this land.
We pay our respects to theElders past, present and
emerging, for they hold thememories, the traditions and the
culture of the Aboriginal andTorres Strait Islander people
across the nation.
Warning this podcast containsexplicit language and discusses
(00:22):
sensitive topics related tomental health childhood trauma,
birth trauma, abuse, miscarriageand suicide.
Listener discretion is advised.
If you find these subjectsdistressing or triggering, we
recommend taking caution andconsidering whether to proceed
with listening.
If you or someone you know isstruggling, please reach out to
a mental health professional ora trusted individual for support
(00:43):
.
Your wellbeing is our priority.
G'day everyone.
Before we dive in, I wanted togive a quick update.
Some of you may have noticedI've been off social media
lately and new episodes havestopped.
I'm doing okay.
The podcast is still alive, butI've taken a step back from
social media to focus on mymental health, my family and my
career.
I don't have a set timeline formy return, but I'll release one
(01:07):
or two more episodes for 2024and that will be the conclusion
of season two.
After that, I'll take a shortbreak and be back with season
three in early 2025.
Also, I have some incrediblyexciting news.
Touched Out is a finalist in the2024 Australian Podcast Awards,
in both the parenting categoryand the editor's choice in
(01:28):
specialised podcasts category.
I'm truly honoured to berecognised alongside such
amazing creators.
Thank you to everyone who haslistened, rated, reviewed and
supported the show.
I couldn't have reached thispoint without you all.
Now let's get into today'sconversation with Naomi from
Romsey, an incredibleentrepreneur and mother who's
built multiple businesses whilenavigating mental health
(01:50):
challenges.
Her story is one of resilience,community support and balancing
life's many roles.
I hope you love it.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
It's been tough, so take a breath from everything
right here at home.
Take some time, it's alright.
You'll be fine after a touch ofa cat, it's alright.
(02:24):
The Touchdown Podcast.
Take all night, you'll be fine.
It's alright, the Touchdown.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Podcast.
Alright.
So today we've got Naomi fromRomsey.
How are you going, naomi?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I'm good.
I'm good, how are you?
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I'm well, thank you.
Thank you for joining me today.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
You're more than welcome, so we'll start off with
a little bit about yourself anda little bit about your family.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Okay, I'm 28.
I moved to Romsey when I wassix weeks pregnant, so that was
fun trying to move with morningsickness and, yeah, not ideal.
I have a few.
(03:16):
Well, I've got a couple ofbusinesses that I run from home
and I've got a 14 month olddaughter, and I've also got an
eight year old stepdaughter aswell.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Awesome, so you run multiple businesses from home
while being full-time mum.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
That must be a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
It is.
Yeah, it's definitely gettingharder the older she's getting,
obviously on the move a lot more, so it has its challenges.
But I really wanted somethingthat I could do without having
to leave her and without havingto put her into child care just
for my own anxiety.
So that's kind of where mysecond business has stemmed from
(03:51):
is trying to create somethingthat other mums or parents can
do the same thing, that they canstill earn an income whilst
being a parent.
Especially with the rising costof living, most people can't
afford not to work, so that'syeah, it's getting pretty crazy,
isn't it?
It's insane, absolutely insane.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So I know that you run one business, Our Gypsy
Collection.
Yes, do you want to tell me alittle bit about that.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, so I started that one.
It's been about five years andI was working in finance and I
was working from home and Ihated it.
I was crying every day.
I was a business developmentmanager and I had so much
anxiety around calling peoplenot cold calling, but trying to
(04:36):
build up relationships withpeople I knew nothing about and
so I thought I just want to dosomething that I enjoy every
single day, something that's notwork, and I grew up with
crystals and sort ofspirituality and I enjoy that
sort of thing.
So I just pretty much started.
(04:57):
I just started buying things, Istarted, I registered my
business, I did everything sortof within a day, which in
hindsight, was a mistake to doit that way, but-.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
The now or never kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
It was yeah, and it kind of it was never a full-time
thing, I was doing it on theside.
And then I started working as atravel agent and then it fell
to the side again and then COVIDhit and I picked it back up.
But then I went back to workand so it was kind of just off
on, off on.
And then I got pregnant and hadmy baby and now it's kind of
(05:32):
it's really picking back upagain and so that's yeah, that's
the scope of how that happenedand it's evolved.
I was sort of selling crystalsand now it's more crystal-based
products.
So I'm launching a crystaljewelry collection and do
candles and sell bohemianclothing as well.
So that's my product-basedbusiness.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Awesome.
And what are your otherbusinesses?
Speaker 2 (05:55):
So I have a talent agency slash virtual assistant
agency.
So that's kind of what's pickedup in the last few months and
that is where everything stemmedfrom, from me wanting to find
something that I could do fromhome or anywhere really, and
still be there for my daughter,and it's something that I want
to sort of, I guess, share withother people and sort of teach
(06:17):
them how they can do it as well.
Because it's yeah, it's beenamazing.
I did try to go back to work,not because I wanted to, because
we had to.
You know, interest rates weregoing through the roof and I was
on maternity leave and wedidn't expect, we didn't prepare
for it.
So I did start working casuallyand that was really hard because
I was breastfeeding, so youknow, I'm working, I'm pumping
(06:40):
before work, during work, afterwork, and just for a little bit
of money.
So it was really hard.
So then I started working forsomeone just doing a few hours a
day, just like email management, just really basic, and it kind
of grew and she liked what Iwas doing.
So she asked me to do morehours and more hours, and then
(07:03):
it got to a point where I'mdoing full-time hours, which is
great, and then she has quite alarge following on social media
and people were asking her whoshe uses to run her or to manage
her business, and she was kindenough to share my details,
along with a couple of otherpeople she works with, and
that's where it kind of took off.
(07:24):
But I didn't have anywhere todirect these people because I
was just doing it from my ownsort of personal page, and so I
thought maybe I could makesomething out of this.
And yeah, it's taken off.
I've got a lot of clientsstarting.
I'm able to charge more for mytime, which means that I can
(07:44):
work less hours, and I've gottwo of my sisters who are going
to be starting to do some workfor me as well, which it's
overwhelming because I haven'tplanned for it, but it's a good
overwhelming.
So my next step is to take thisand teach other people how to
do it, so that they don't haveto make that decision about
(08:06):
leaving their kids or beingstuck in a job that they hate.
So there's that business.
And then I haven't reallypicked this one up, but I have
registered a clothing line and Iregistered on my daughter's
first birthday, so it's going tobe for her.
So hopefully one day it'll bewomen's clothing, but hopefully
one day I can pass that down toher.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
So Very cool.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
A lot of fingers in different pies, huh.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Look at all beats working in finance.
I come from that world as well.
I did, you know, over a decadein call centers and in finance
roles, and it's just it's soulcrushing, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I was going to say it's soul destroying yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, I found myself like on the train every day,
just hoping that the train wouldfall off the track, just like
some shit would happen there.
I didn't have to go into thisfucking office again.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah Well, I mean, it wasn't until I was made
redundant from the first jobthat I got out of it, and then I
made my way back into it and Iwas like God, I've got to get
out of this because it'll justkeep happening.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
It's this weird black hole it pulls you in and it's
just horrible, horribleexperiences I actually, so I
left my finance job to work in aprison, which is just you know
like.
That says it all.
I'd rather go and risk my lifeand my health than write another
fucking finance report.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
That's so interesting .
I am so interested in that sideof things.
I dated someone who was aprison guard in a maximum
security prison, and it's justsome of the things you hear are
crazy.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
I work in youth justice.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Okay, yeah, so it's different.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Different world, but definitely a lot more.
I'd say a lot more challengingbecause, from what I've heard,
adult correctional facilities,even though the dangers are a
lot higher, they happen a lotless because there's a little
bit more emotional regulation inadults.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
A bit more structure going on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
So it's a wild time, but I'm actually leaving that
space because we're closing downat the end of the year and I am
currently studying to become acounsellor.
So this podcast has kind of ledme on that journey.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
That's amazing.
That's so good.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, it's pretty cool.
So we'll dive into your pastwith mental health and all of
the things surrounding that, ifyou're happy to do that.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Absolutely.
What do you want to know?
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Give me from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Okay.
So growing up I was veryparticular about things.
I would be very let's see, howcan I put this?
I was very particular, alwayson the go, loved a challenge,
and I loved school.
Growing up I was really, reallygood at school and it wasn't
(10:51):
until sort of grade six that myschool teacher, she, found a
program for high school to workin an accelerated program.
So what that was was doing sixyears of schooling in five.
So I finished year 12 when I was16.
And so I essentially got toskip a year.
It was just condensed,condensed down, and I guess the
(11:13):
first sign of actually realisingsomething was going on was
probably when my parentsdivorced.
I was about 12 or 13.
And the anxiety that I had whenI was little, it was just
maximized, it was just out ofcontrol.
I hated going to high school,which was completely different
for me.
I'd never experienced that,crying every day, just making
(11:34):
myself sick over it, and I spoketo several counselors and had
really bad experiences withcounselors.
I've just found that a lot ofthem were just very
surface-based.
They were just, they didn'tfeel like they cared.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
What was going on Really, yeah, exactly yeah, yeah
, I've found that with a lot ofcounsellors as well.
Yeah, just like tick and flick,like you're fine, off you go,
it's a lot of like let's talkabout your feelings, but not
let's fix how you're feeling, orlet's teach you how to fix your
feelings.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Exactly or find out what's really going on.
And I guess it was when I wasabout 15 that I started
experiencing extreme I guess OCDtendencies, like extreme.
I'd come home from school, haveto change my clothes, wouldn't
let people in my room, had tohave order, I was afraid of
(12:28):
germs, afraid of getting sick,afraid of things happening.
And I started seeing apsychiatrist and they diagnosed
obsessive compulsive disorderand major depressive disorder
and that was hard to sort ofaccept for me.
I didn't want to accept thatthere was something wrong with
me as a kid, like I just didn'tunderstand the label and I
(12:51):
didn't want a label.
And I internalized that I hidthat from everyone.
You know, going through highschool I hid it, I didn't want
to share it with anyone.
But then I got to year 12 and Idecided that I was sick of
hiding it and I was sick of youknow, sort of sheltering who I
was.
And so I shared it and you knowI'd had this class of people
(13:14):
that I'd gone the whole waythrough high school because we
were all in this acceleratedprogram and I've never really
talked about this.
But like I shared it with themand you know I thought these
people I've known them for fiveyears, six years.
You know a lot of them onsimilar journeys.
You know on the spectrum,things like that.
You know very intelligentpeople and it was the worst
(13:36):
thing I've ever done.
They made my life a living hell.
You know toying with me,touching my things on purpose.
I even had a teacher that wasteasing me and I was really
particular about like I didn'twant to use the laptops that we
had, like the shared laptops,and she called me out in front
of the class and wouldn't passmy.
So it was my final year ofschool and I stopped going to
(13:59):
her class because I didn't wantto be teased, and so she stopped
.
She wouldn't mark my work offeven though I'd done the work
because I didn't attend herclass.
And then there was times whereI, you know I would be sitting
alone because I, you know, Iisolated myself.
I'd sit alone and people wouldcome and just push my stuff off
the desk or, you know, come and,like you know, mess things up
(14:21):
for me, and that was really hardand I decided that I was like
you know, mess things up for me,and that was really hard and I
decided that I was like I'm notcoming back and that took a
little bit of time and it was areally internal battle because I
really wanted to finish highschool but I also didn't want to
be in front of these people.
So it took a bit of time and Iwent back.
I finished I was doing adiploma at the same time in
(14:42):
photography and so I finishedthat and I kind of just
distanced myself from everyoneand I started my first business
when I was six as a photographer.
And that was kind of my firstreal experiences with mental
health.
And I've been on medicationsince I was 15 for, like, my
antidepressants and you knowthere have been times where I've
(15:03):
tried to stop them and I'veended up in emergency, you know,
wanting to kill myself, andit's just been a really tricky
thing to deal with, especiallywhen people don't see that on
the outside.
They think you're fine, youknow You're not showing it, so
there's nothing wrong.
(15:24):
That was my experience, I think.
Yeah, I really struggled withthat.
That was my first sort ofexperience with with mental
health.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, just goes to show that you know, even though
you've got these kids thatyou've been friends with for you
know half a decade, who alsohave a range of mental health
issues, still had this severelack of empathy towards you when
you were, you know, vulnerableand honest with them.
And it just goes to show howemotional intelligence really,
really doesn't mature.
(15:54):
Like all, teenagers areassholes.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Literally yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
And I bet that you know being grown up.
Some of them would look backnow and be like oh, why did I do
that?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
It doesn't make it okay, but yeah, I did actually
have someone reach out to me acouple of years after high
school and apologize for what heput me through, which meant a
lot because I and I, whenever Italk to people like you know
family, they're like it'sbecause you fight back.
They're not going to do it topeople who are that vulnerable
(16:30):
and crippled with anxiety on theoutside that they can see is
going to break them.
So it was kind of like ablessing and a curse in a way.
It was like you're strongenough to take this, so we're
going to do it to you.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
My experience is quite the opposite.
I didn't fight back and I gotit even worse.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Really, oh my God.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, I was bullied relentlessly all through school
until like the later years ofschool where I was just fed up
and I was like, fucking fightback.
And I started fighting back andit died down a little bit.
Yeah, yeah but yeah, for themost part.
Like I was very much a freezeor flee kind of person, not a
fight person.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's yeah, like you said, it's one of
those things where it's hardbecause, yeah, there was these
clear mental health issues withmajority of the people in that
class.
You know all high-functioningin that class, you know all high
functioning intelligent peoplewith.
You know below the surfacemental health issues and still
(17:33):
had, you know, had that.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
So yeah, do you?
Think in retrospect.
You think it could be like themprojecting as well.
It's like I don't want to dealwith my shit, so let's just
focus on her shit.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, I think so.
I think it's a defensemechanism and it's, you know, if
everyone's taking it out on her, they're not going to focus on
me.
So yeah, I think that that wasdefinitely the case.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
And the only way we can change that is just by
normalizing mental health moreand more, which you know, that's
the whole point of podcast,really.
So you've got your diagnosis,you've been on meds, you've
finished school, you've startedyour business.
What does your life over thoseyears look like, once you've
started your photographybusiness?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, I think it was really good for me to have that
creative outlet and I think thatI've always wanted to have and
I think a part of it was and Ithink that I've always wanted to
have and I think a part of itwas a bit of control.
I've always wanted to have thatcontrol of my own life and I
guess it was just that I didn'tknow how to run the business and
you've got a set of skills butthat doesn't necessarily
(18:39):
translate into an income.
So I started working inhospitality as a hotel
receptionist.
I moved my way up to hotelsupervisor, so I did that for a
couple of years and by that timeI was 18.
And I guess I've never been thetype to like, growing up, you
know, friends would go out toparties and drink and that
(19:03):
wasn't for me and I lost friendsover that because I chose to
study and I chose school, and soI grew up doing that.
And when I finished high school, the friends that I did have,
they were all older, so theywere all going out, they were
all going to clubs and pubs andI was 16.
So I kind of had that two yearsof just doing, you know, my
(19:25):
business stuff.
So when I was 18 or 19, I foundmy way into finance.
I had a friend who asked if Iwanted to work with her and so I
got into equipment finance orhospitality equipment finance,
and that's how I got in thefinance industry.
And I found that around sort of20, 20 years old that's when I
(19:46):
sort of let loose.
I guess I had my moment of Ididn't have that youth, I didn't
go out, I didn't experienceeverything.
So I went down a really darkpath of just, you know, from
Thursday night to Sunday night,just party, party, party, party,
and I didn't like who I was,but I couldn't stop and it was
(20:09):
just this cycle, this cycle, andI think it was a lot of hurt
that I had, you know, because Iwas being treated awful by
people, by men, but I kept goingback for more and more and more
, and I knew, I know, and I knewthat it was not how I wanted to
be treated and but I justdidn't know what to do, how to
(20:31):
fix it.
And so that happened for quitea few years until I got to the
point of I don't want to do thisanymore, I don't want to be
treated this way, I don't wantto hate myself, I don't want to
regret the things that I'm doing.
And so I found myself in arelationship, a long-term
relationship, and we moved intogether.
We got a couple of dogs andthings were good.
(20:55):
Things were going good untilone day they weren't going good
and he said that he didn't wantto be with me anymore and kind
of took me by surprise, kind ofblew my mind and I was back at
rock bottom.
I had this house, had two dogs,and I found myself I had to
move back home and start allover again, and so that was
(21:19):
really really hard yeah, reallyhard and I found myself back in
that pattern of going out againand sorry.
And I experienced somethingthat I've never really talked
about, but I and that was reallythat was, you know that was
tough because you know it was ona night out and the police, you
(21:42):
know you go down the route ofreporting it and it got to a
point of them saying look, it'sgoing to be your word against
his.
So it's up to you what you wantto do, but it's going to be two
years of hell, you know.
So what do you want to do?
Do you want to pursue it or doyou want to drop the case?
So that was really tough.
(22:03):
So I decided to drop the case,which that's hard, because then
you think and it's kind of likeno one believes you because you
know, and I guess, that I dideverything that I needed to do,
so that it's on record.
So if it does happen to someoneelse, then I've got a better
chance of something sort ofhappening.
But yeah, that was kind ofanother turning point in my life
(22:24):
.
And then I've got a betterchance of something sort of
happening.
But yeah, that was kind ofanother turning point in my life
.
And then I went overseas.
So I got a scholarship to go toIndia.
So I was in the financeindustry and we were helping
people over in India andvillages through microfinance so
women in particular helpingthem by giving them money for
them to start their business andthen give the money back and
(22:45):
then we'd give it to more people.
So I applied for a scholarshipand I got to go over there.
And that happened just before Igot to go.
So it was kind of it happenedat the right time.
I decided to extend the timeover there.
So I ended up going to India.
I went to Dubai, zambia,zimbabwe.
So I ended up going to India.
I went to Dubai, zambia,zimbabwe, egypt, and that was so
(23:07):
good for me.
I was on my own, you know.
Yeah, I think I was like 21 or20, 21, you know, mum didn't
want me to go to Africa bymyself, but it was the best
thing that I've ever done.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I came back, just get away from it.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
All it was so good yeah, it was so good just to be
on my own, because I'd neverreally been on my own and that's
kind of where my love fortravel stemmed from.
So when I got back and you know, I decided that I wanted to
pursue that.
So I ended up doing a diplomaof travel and tourism and
getting into travel agent workand I ended up meeting my now
(23:43):
partner in the finance industry,so before I left the finance
industry and yeah, so got intothat and then COVID hit.
So I was stood down for a yearand then got back.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Sorry, I missed all of that.
You completely froze.
So you met your partner in thefinance industry.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Yeah, so I met your partner in the finance industry.
Yeah, so I met my partner inthe finance industry before I
was made redundant.
And then I moved into being atravel agent.
So I finished my diploma oftravel and tourism and worked in
that industry.
And then COVID hit and I wasstood down for a year and that's
when I sort of focused more onmy business and then they stood
(24:26):
me back up.
So I went back into that anddecided I want to have a baby,
but I also have endometriosis,so I thought it was going to
take a really long time toconceive, which is what I was
told.
I'd had surgery to remove cystsand we fell pregnant.
So that was.
That was really good it was.
Yeah, it was a bit of asurprise, but yeah.
(24:47):
And then we built our house outin Romsey and we've been here
two years in November, but thenit wasn't until I had my
daughter that I went downanother path of diagnosis for my
mental health, because I justfound that something wasn't
quite right, and so I've justbeen diagnosed with ADHD as well
(25:07):
.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Hey, welcome to the club.
That's a whole new lane to bein, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Oh my God, but it makes sense for me, like I just
have so much more understandingabout who I am Like you said
before and I didn't want to jumpinto it too quickly, but like
my fingers in so many pies andlike just want to do everything
and like Just jump here, jumphere, jump here.
But like yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
There's just so so many people that are, you know,
25, 35 that are getting thesediagnoses, and there's so many
people out there that are justso dismissive of it because
they're like, oh, it's just afucking fad, it's just like the
new trend.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
And what they don't realize is it's not a trend.
And what they don't realise isit's not a trend it's a real
thing.
That's happening because we allfell through the cracks,
because we didn't fit thattypical mould of ADD or ADHD
back in the you know 90s andearly 2000s, where you know the
kids that had ADHD were likeflipping tables and bouncing off
the walls and telling teachersto go fuck themselves.
(26:09):
They didn't realise there'sdifferent types of ADHD.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, it's wild.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Well, congratulations .
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Thank you and it's like it was so nice to speak to
a psychiatrist and for him tosay like, especially, you know,
a lot of women fall through thecracks because it's all
internalized.
It's like you said, they don'tproject it, they're not, you
know, disruptive or they're not,you know, like flipping tables
and things like that.
So it was just, it was so nice,but again I did.
(26:40):
I was in a bit of denial atfirst because I didn't want to
have that stigma.
You hear ADHD and a lot ofpeople still think it's flipping
tables.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
It's telling teachers to go find something else.
This one's going to be too much.
Yeah, yeah, too much work, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Also, you know I'm just adding to.
You know I've got anxiety, ocd,mdd, adhd.
You're like I'm just rackingthem up.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, that's been a bit of a learning curve.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
The really cool thing about ADHD.
Sorry to butt in no you're allright.
Especially with diagnoses inwomen.
I found out that all of themarkers and the diagnosing
process for ADHD it's all gearedtowards men and that's why so
many women don't get diagnosedwith it.
So my wife has also beendiagnosed with ADHD last year or
(27:25):
start of this year maybe, butyou know she had all of those
diagnoses that you've had too.
You know she was diagnosedbipolar, not bipolar, sorry, bpd
bipolar.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yep, yep, what's Borderline personality disorder?
That's the one.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah, thank, you Sorry oh you're all right.
And there's so many cases ofmisdiagnosing BPD.
It's like textbook ADHD orautism as well.
It's wild.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
I'm really really interested in kind of like that
space when it comes topsychiatry Absolutely, and that
was something that when I wasyounger I sort of wanted.
I did consider that path goingdown, that you know because I
have had so many experiencesaround that.
But I just don't think that I'm, I don't think I'm in the right
head space for it and I don'tthink that I could counsel
people through it when I'mtrying to understand myself.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Well, I'm 36 and it's taken me this long to kind of
be like okay, well, it's time tofind a career that I actually
enjoy, instead of just going towork for a paycheck and finding
a job that will give me the mostmoney.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
It's scary, you know, especially with ADHD and my
inability to concentrate forlong periods of time, like going
back to school as a 36-year-oldwhile I'm working full-time
with three kids.
That's fucking scary.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah, that's a lot.
That is a lot Like.
Are you, if you don't mind measking, are you on medication
for it?
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Yeah, yeah, I'm on Vivant 50 milligrams.
I'm just about to go up, though, because it's just it's not
doesn't have the same kick thatit did when I first went on it.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
That's where I'm in sort of a crossroad.
Because I'm still breastfeeding, I can't have the medication,
but I also don't want to takethat away from my daughter.
So I've been really there'sbeen this internal conflict
because I know that I'msuffering in other ways, because
I really do need it, but I alsodon't want to take that away
from her.
So I'm trying to hold out aslong as I can.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Just kind of suffering through it a little
bit longer.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Must be a hard space to live in.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah, it is yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
So I want to jump back a little bit and just talk
a little bit more about your OCD, because you're the first
person I've had on here with OCD, so it's not something that I
understand heaps about, like Ionly have like base knowledge
about it.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
So with your OCD, it was very kind of germ-focused.
Yes, like I don't Okay, yeah,it was very kind of germ focused
.
Yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Did you have like those textbook, like rituals,
like having to you know tap yourhead 10 times or else I was
going to die, or something likethat?
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Not so much the rituals.
My ritual was hand washing.
There are a lot of forms of OCD.
You know a lot of people likeorder and I think that the term
ocd is used quite loosely withpeople they're like, oh, I'm so
ocd, but it goes deeper thanthat.
So there's lots of things thatcome to through ocd.
You know intrusive thoughts.
(30:23):
A lot of people with ocd havethoughts that they don't want to
have.
They can't help those thoughtsand they're not things that they
would necessarily act on, butthey just come into the mind.
You know things like hurtingother people, which you would
never do, but it's justsomething that's intrusive.
That's you know, that's sort of.
So you know, intrusive thoughtsare something that I've
experienced before, not all thetime Hand washing.
(30:46):
There are certain things that Ireally struggle with to touch
cash money.
So the thought process behindit is where's that money been?
How many people have touched it?
Like you think about thosethings, things like bins.
You know the germs there.
You know you're going to toucha bin but then you're going to
go and, I don't know, touch yourface or whatever it is.
(31:07):
So it's it's kind of like athought process back of of that
which has really, really, reallyimpacted my relationships and
that has been a key cause insome of my relationships
breaking down, because I knowit's irrational, I know that
it's not, you know, nothing sobad is going to happen from it,
but I just can't get past it andit's kind of, and for me like
(31:33):
growing up.
Now that I look back, it wasthings like I had to have
everything had to be the numbereight.
You know I would have cerealand you know the Sultanas in my
cereal had to have eight.
If there was more than eight,get rid of them.
So those sorts of things youknow as a kid, you know walking
on a footpath, one foot in eachpath, you know don't step on the
(31:54):
lines.
So there are lots of forms ofOCD and a lot of people have.
You know I've got some friendswho have got severe fears around
toxins, like you know, thingsbeing toxic and chemicals.
That sort of thing doesn'tbother me as much.
It's more a cleanliness sort ofthing which is very difficult
(32:15):
to explain to people and forpeople to understand.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
So OCD, I know that it does have big roles with ADHD
and autism as well.
So with my ADHD and autism, theintrusive thoughts are
something that I haveexperienced, unfortunately and
you know there's this massivepush on TikTok at the moment
with you know I let my intrusivethoughts win and it's just like
(32:39):
pouring a bit of water out orsomething.
Oh, yeah.
And like there's this big pushfrom the community of ADHD
people and autistic people, it'slike you need to learn the
difference between impulsivethoughts and intrusive thoughts.
Yes, Like, intrusive thoughtsare fucking heinous.
They're horrible, horriblethings, Like the worst things
(33:01):
you could possibly think.
Just pop into your head andyou're like God damn it, no, no.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Yes, and it's so hard because you want to like for me
.
I've had those thoughts and Iwant to share them with my
partner, but at same time I'mlike that's just take this shit
to my grave exactly, and it's so, so hard because, unless you've
experienced it, you know andthat's, and, like you said
before, like they are allconnected and I, my psychiatrist
(33:29):
, said that I do have a lot ofautistic tendencies and autism
does run within my family, sothat they all, they all tie in
together and it's so hard todifferentiate what's OCD, what's
, you know, the autism, what'sADHD.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
So yeah, it's really hard.
My, my wife, by chance, justone night we started talking
about intrusive thoughts andshe's like do you have them?
And I was like, yeah, all thetime, unfortunately.
And she's like, do you havethem?
And I was like, yeah, all thetime, unfortunately.
And she's like what type ofstuff?
Though?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
And I'm like, oh, it's such a hard thing to talk
about.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
And I was like you know what, like you're my person
and I trust you, so like wetalked out our intrusive
thoughts and it was a big loadoff my back.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
And for her to experience it.
It would be so nice to be ableto talk with someone without
judgment.
Yeah, and it's, it's so hard.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
I'm trying to sort of teach or inform my partner
without going into detail yeahjust so that he can understand
that the torment, because it'sit's torturous, it is yeah yeah,
just for anyone listening whodoesn't experience those types
of things, I won't divulge likemy intrusive thoughts, but to
give an example, you could justbe living your life doing
(34:41):
something as mundane as likewashing the dishes and then all
of a sudden in your mind it'llbe like just an image of you,
like having sex with your mother, or just something completely
and utterly disgusting, likeyour baby in some sort of sexual
position.
Yeah, and having those thoughtsmakes you feel like there's
(35:01):
something just innately wrongwith you, something that can't
be fixed Like full disclosure.
I have had those types ofthoughts before in some aspects
and I've had to sit there andlook in the mirror and be like
are you a fucking pedophile?
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, what's wrong with you?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Yeah, and I'm not a pedophile because I don't have
that attraction, like itrepulses me but unfortunately
those images pop into your headand there's nothing you can do
to stop it and it fucking sucks.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
So and the more you push them away, the more they
come back, and that's somethingthat I've learned through
therapy is to let them in sothat you can think it through as
hard as it is.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
But then it sort of helps them to go away.
But yeah, you're completelyright, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
It's really hard, it's sucky, yeah, and it's
something that all of us in thatcommunity can definitely
empathize with, because it's alllived experiences.
And unfortunately, you knowthere's people out there that
don't have those thoughts andwill instantly jump to judgment
because that's not the way theirbrain works.
(36:06):
They instantly think, well, I'mnot like that.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
So if you're like that, you're fucked.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
It's a pretty sucky kind of space to live in.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
It's really tricky so with your OCD over the years.
Have you found ways toalleviate those compulsions?
Is it something that's still apart of your everyday life?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Yeah, so it's definitely a part of my everyday
life.
The medication that I'm on,I've been on for about 10 years
and I'm on a very high dosage.
I'm on 200 milligrams, which isone of the higher dosage that
you can have.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
And what's that medication?
Do you mind me?
Speaker 2 (36:41):
asking Sertraline, so Zoloft.
So I did find it hard because Iwas worried about it.
When I was pregnant and beforeI was pregnant I did talk to a
psychiatrist and the doctorsbecause I was worried about how.
When I was pregnant and beforeI was pregnant I did talk to a
psychiatrist and the doctorsbecause I was worried about how
it would impact my pregnancy.
But there's been no studies toshow the effects because they
(37:02):
won't test it on a live sort ofpregnancy.
So I did reduce the medicationonce I was through my first
trimester to try and avoid orlower any risks of my baby
having withdrawals when she wasborn.
So that was really trickybecause I was kind of coming
down off a medication and also,you know, I wasn't drinking
(37:24):
energy drinks, which I wasdrinking a lot before I was
pregnant.
So that was really tricky.
So I did find that my OCDtendencies were increased and
when I'm stressed or when I'manxious I find that they come
out a lot more.
So I'll want to cleanexcessively.
Like you know, my partner couldlook at the house and go it's
clean, what's wrong?
And I'm looking at it, goingit's filthy, Like there's, you
(37:48):
know, there's stuff everywhereand there's like one thing on
the bench.
So that has definitely beensomething that I've noticed is,
you know, when I'm anxious itdoes present itself more, but I
have found coping mechanisms,and I guess a way that I've been
able to cope is to write thingsdown and create lists to sort
(38:08):
of try and get everything out ofmy head, which does create
anxiety for myself as well,because then I have all these
lists and I'm overwhelmed by thelist.
So I'm like, oh my God.
So that it's kind of like it'sit's more just managing and
trying to get through it.
It's not sort of likealleviating it.
I still have my things.
You know, no-goes is touchingmoney, like if I touch money I
(38:31):
have to wash my hands straightaway, or wet wipes or something
bins.
My partner puts the bins outfor me and then I make him wash
his hands as soon as he getsback inside.
So like there are things thatare like my go-tos and you know,
like public transport's anotherone.
I hate it, can't do it, and it'sjust trying to manage that the
(38:51):
best that I can.
But there's no fix for it andit's not something that I've
accepted, that I'm ever going tolive without, which is a really
big thing to sort of accept,because I don't want to live
like this.
I don't, you know, it's notsomething that I enjoy.
I think that the mental healthissues that I have have
definitely helped me be theperson I am and and you know,
(39:15):
especially when it comes to youknow my businesses and being
able to be empathetic towardsother people.
I think that they've definitelyhelped me, yeah, but they've
also hindered me as well.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, it's always thatdouble-edged sword, isn't it you
?
Know I wouldn't be the person Iam without these things, yeah,
but maybe that person withoutthose things would be happier,
but maybe more of an asshole.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
A bit more selfish you never know.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yeah, Like you could, I'd love to live just a day,
just a day without the stuff.
Yeah.
Just to see how it is, but Idon't think overall I'd like to
change anything, because it justI just am.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
And I think being me is good enough.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, like it's, it's,it's, it's got its, it's got its
blessings.
And you know, I think my mainconcern and my main thing is
trying to bring my daughter upwithout it impacting her too
much.
You know, I don't want it toaffect her and I've been doing
things and being exposed.
(40:15):
You know, exposure, therapy,things that I would never do
beforehand, that I am pushingmyself to do for my daughter.
You know, things like placentas.
To me that's just a big room ofgerms, a big germ fest, you know
, oh, yeah, God, yeah but youknow and you know taking her to
those and and I'm souncomfortable the whole time I'm
(40:36):
there and as soon as I leave Iwant to get changed and have a
shower, but I'm trying to pushthrough to do those things so
that she doesn't miss out um,yeah, yeah, that's a hard one
because we're we're we're notlike a germ, a germaphobe family
or anything like that, butwe're very much a stay-at-home
family and our kids do suffer alittle bit from it, you know.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
They're very much like let's go to the skate park
and like that means we have togo outside into the world and
that's a lot.
But you know we had my son'sbirthday at Jungle Kids in
Wallin.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
Oh yes, yep, that's the play centre I went to.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Oh, in wallen.
Oh yes, yep, that's wherethat's the play center I went to
.
Oh okay, yeah, so we had hisbirthday last weekend, yeah and
god, it's just a big day itreally is like you get home and
you're like fuck and it's alwaysso packed there and it's so, so
packed, so stimulating like,overstimulating like yeah I get
that sensory overload.
There's things going here andscreaming and like, oh my god
yeah, we had like a bunch ofkids that weren't a part of our
(41:37):
party like coming in trying tosuss out our birthday cake and
we'd have parents like we'd haveto go find their parents for
them there's just so many peoplethat are just like run free
children, do what you want Iliterally had a kid climbing up
me, like this toddler climbingup me, and he was coughing in my
face and I'm sitting there likeoh no where's your mum?
(42:00):
Like where's your mum, but alsolike Throw him in the ball pit.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
I'm like get off me.
And I'm like my friend saysshe's like you always attract
them.
I'm like I don't know.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, it's a weird place that if you haven't been
there already.
There's a play center insunbury that's much bigger the
mcdonald's or something.
Yeah some weird mcdougall ormcdougall's yeah, mcdougall, yes
, yeah, much, much more spaceytry that out.
Hide in the corner by myself,my wife and I have actually
discussed opening a play centerfor ourselves that would be
(42:35):
amazing and, like we do, sensorydays for parents and kids have
some nice music going and thingslike that yeah but then also
like the fact that if we go toour own play center, I could
play in it at night time exactlyfucking cool, do like a, like
an, adults only night that wouldbe amazing.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
And Do like an adults only night, that would be
amazing.
And like our house is kind ofturned into a play centre.
We've got a mini jumping castle, a ball pit, a slide and swing
and I'm like you know what.
We don't need to go out, we canjust do it here.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Yeah, straight up, invite us over.
Exactly I keep planning onchanging our theatre room into a
sensory room.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
It's just money.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
I know that's what our theatre room is.
It's just turned into a yeah, aplay centre.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
So yet again I want to go back a little bit and talk
through your pregnancy and howthat was for you, like as far as
your health and your mentalhealth goes, and how was the
birth.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Fucking tough, to be honest, fucking tough, I bet
goes and how was the birth?
fucking tough, to be honest Ibet I was to start off with.
I was sick as a dog, like I wassick from the moment I found
out I was pregnant to when Igave birth.
So I was on medication for that.
And that was really trickybecause I was still working as a
travel agent and we werewearing masks because covid and
I was, you know, trying to youknow not gag, and I was, you
(43:53):
know, trying to you know not gag, and I was running out the back
vomiting between talking tocustomers and it was awful.
And at around 14 weeks I wokeup and I'd been bleeding and my
heart stopped.
I was like, oh shit, like I'mgoing to have a miscarriage.
And so we went to the hospitaland again COVID, so they
wouldn't let my partner comewith me.
(44:13):
So I sat in emergency for, Ithink, six hours bleeding,
bawling my eyes out, and mypartner, aidan, had to sit in
the cafe in the hospital, likehe was literally a room or so
away and I was just texting himyou know, updates.
And so I finally got to see adoctor and did an ultrasound and
they said that I'd had a whatwas it?
A hemorrhage in my placenta andusually it's trauma-based, so
(44:41):
they couldn't actually work outwhat it was.
Usually it's, you know, ifyou've been in a car accident or
you know you've fallen orsomething's actually hit you.
But I think it was because myplacenta was anterior, so it was
at the front.
So I was on bed rest for alittle bit and had to get some
follow-up scans and you knowthey had threatened miscarriage
on the, the documents, whichthat was triggering for me, like
(45:01):
I was.
Yeah, I was so, so scared andso we got through that.
And then I ended up with COVIDat about 20 weeks and I was
really, really sick.
So I had a blood pressuremonitor and oxygen reader that I
had to.
Every day the hospital wouldcall me and get my readings and,
you know, follow up ultrasounds.
(45:22):
So that was a lot and because Ihad COVID, my 20 week scan was
pushed out.
So it was about 22 weeks when Ihad my scan, which is like the
latest point that they can sortof, I think, terminate the
pregnancy if something's wrong,and we had my scan and then at
the end of the scan he's likeokay, we just need to double
back to the heart and have alook at the heart again.
(45:43):
I didn't get a good image.
I was like, okay, that's fine.
And then so he sat us down atthe end and said, look, we found
something that's not quiteright.
And I was like, what do youmean?
Like one of the arteries inyour baby's heart is going, it's
, it's, it's it's in the wronglocation or it's it's?
You know, there's something notright.
I can't tell you.
You need to see a cardiologist.
So you know, I left thatappointment absolutely bawling
(46:11):
my eyes out, and they made uswait.
They made us wait a month forthis appointment and that was
pure torture.
And we saw the cardiologist andthey sat down and they drew an
image of the heart and they drewan image of where all the
arteries were supposed to go.
And they drew where mydaughter's artery was, and so it
was on the right side, but ithad formed in a different
location, so it was doing whatit needed to do, but it was just
(46:31):
taking the longer route.
So they said that if it was onthe opposite side it would be a
serious issue and she would mostlikely have something like Down
syndrome.
But being on the left side,then it is a small possibility
that she could have DeGeorgesyndrome, which is like, from my
understanding I think it's like, you know, learning
disabilities and sort of thing.
(46:52):
But they couldn't test it untilshe was born.
So that was quite frightening.
And towards the end of thepregnancy I was struggling.
I was I put on so much weight,like just fluid I think I put on
27 kilos or something and and Iwas just struggling, I was
crying every day.
You know, I lowered mymedication and I, just I was
(47:14):
crying every day.
You know, I lowered mymedication and I just I went to
the doctor, I went to myappointment.
I was like I just I need herout, I need to get her out.
And so they had booked me infor an induction.
The following night my watersbroke.
So I got up to go to the toiletand my waters broke, but I was
bleeding quite a lot.
So I called the hospital andthey said come straight,
straight in.
And so we went to the hospitaland I had this like this I spent
(47:36):
nine more, actually most of mylife.
I'd pictured how I wanted thisbirth to go.
You know, I just wanted thisreally beautiful, pain-free, in
the bath, just lovely, likeexperience, and I got everything
but that, of course so you andmy wife sound like the same
person, like you see me keepkind of chuckling to myself.
Speaker 1 (47:59):
It's just, the similarities are uncanny.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Well, I got to the hospital and they checked and
they found meconium in my waters, which meant that my baby had
done a poo, which they told methat they couldn't differentiate
whether it was just because shehad matured and it was her
first poo or it was because shewas distressed.
So they said I couldn't go homeand that they needed to start
(48:22):
me, like they needed to do aninduction to sort of get her out
, which meant that I wasn'tallowed to go in the bath
because my waters had broken.
And that was the first thingthat sort of was off the list.
I was like, okay, all right, Ireally wanted to go in the bath,
okay.
So they said, you can have ashower.
You know my waters are broken,covered in blood.
You know, have a shower beforewe start the induction.
(48:43):
But having a shower, I'm hookedup to all these monitors and
it's just like you know it wascontractions monitors.
I'm like this is not good.
So contractions monitors.
I'm like this is not good.
So then they started me on thedrip because I'd already had my
waters broken.
That was kind of the next thingand up until that point.
So I'd already been havingcontractions since like 8 pm the
(49:05):
night before and this was 6 amthe next day, and I was fine,
like the pain was fine, and thenthey put me on the drip and
things went from zero to ahundred, like it was awful, and
they had to keep turning up thedosage every half an hour and I
got to a point I think it waslike 11am, and I was like I'm
(49:25):
struggling, like get me the gas,get me something.
So I got the gas, get me theepidural.
So I had the epid epidural butI've got scoliosis in my back
and so they couldn't get it inthe right spot.
So that failed.
So they had to get their headanesthetist to come in and redo
that and so so they did that.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Have you heard my wife's birth story?
Speaker 2 (49:49):
I haven't.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
She's got a twisted spine as well.
Oh really, yeah, they had to doher epidural like six times.
Oh, my fucking God Her fuckingback was an absolute war ground,
sorry to interrupt.
It's just again moresimilarities you and her need to
be friends, mate.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
Yes, and it's so hard Like you're in absolutely
excruciating pain, yet you'relaying here, like you're sitting
here trying not to move.
So anyway, they put that in andthen I stopped progressing.
So I think they checked me like.
I think it was like a year.
I don't know a year, a couple ofhours later, and still hadn't
(50:32):
progressed.
And it got to a point where itwas like it was like 8.30 at
night and they're like we, oh,they needed to break my waters
again too.
So they broke it another twotimes and they said like if
you're not progressing, we needto do something.
And you know, at that point Iwas kind of like I was in
between.
I was like distraught becauseanything like I did not want to
have a cesarean.
(50:53):
That was the furthest thingthat I wanted.
But I kind of I was defeated, Iwas exhausted.
I'd been, you know, in labourfor like 18, 19 hours or
something like that.
And so I was like, okay, allright.
And then so they did the finalcheck and then he walked up to
the side of the bed and he'slike look.
And I was like, yeah, I'm goingto have a cesarean, aren't?
I Like, yeah, he's like, yeah,we need to do an emergency
cesarean, get her out, you know,because I'd also had to have
(51:17):
antibiotics because my watershad broken so long ago the risk
of infection and so they took mein for my emergency cesarean
and like, and like it's asurreal experience.
It's kind of you're in between.
It's like you're watching yourbody but you've got no control
over it and it's like yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
I don't even know how to explain it.
My wife had two caesareans andshe fucking hated them.
Like the first one she was likethe second.
She had to go under becausethey couldn't do the spinal
block.
None of the medication wasworking, oh shit.
But what she hated about thecaesareans for one was like
feeling like a failure, like herbody was made to make babies
(52:00):
but it couldn't push the babiesout.
So that was her biggest thing.
But the second biggest thingwas her not being in control of
her body.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
Yeah, and that sucked most of her.
Yeah, the feeling of being numband just just watching.
You know, someone you know pulla baby from you and and not
then they wouldn't, you know,let me watch, or anything like
that.
You know the sheets up, sort ofthing.
So I kept looking back at theclock just to see what time she
was going to be born.
And they pulled her out and shecried once and then she stopped
(52:29):
crying and I said like why isn'tshe crying?
And so they took her and theyhad to like work on her and I
was trying to look back over myshoulder but then I started like
just convulsing and I didn'tknow it at the time, but I was
hemorrhaging and and I washemorrhaging and I was just like
trying to listen to her crying.
(52:50):
So they worked on her and thenthey brought her over to me and
they put her down.
But then I was convulsing and Iwas vomiting and I couldn't
hold her.
So my partner took her and theywent and they worked on me and
you know I didn't get to do theskin-to-skin, I pretty much just
passed out after it all.
I was just so exhausted.
It was like 28 and a half hoursof labor and I could hear them
(53:16):
and I could hear them talkingand I could hear that he was
doing the skin to skin.
But I couldn't.
I was so tired, I couldn't openmy eyes.
And I just remember the nextmorning opening my eyes and
looking over the side and mypartner was asleep on the couch
and they let him stay.
I got an exemption because ofmy mental health and then my
daughter in the little you knowbassinet and I couldn't move,
(53:39):
you know I was in pain and hewas asleep.
So I literally got my phonebecause I didn't even remember
what we called her.
I didn't remember anything.
I got my phone and I like movedit and I took a photo, like I
zoomed in and took a photo ofthe little card that they put in
, just, and I like got my phone,I like zoomed in just to see
what her name was and herdetails.
And yeah, it was justincredible, like crazy, yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:01):
Do you feel like you've moved past all of that
trauma, or is that stuff thatyou still hold on to?
Speaker 2 (54:08):
I struggled a lot.
I went and had a session withthe hospital so they contacted
me to go through my birthbecause I didn't understand.
I didn't understand whyeverything happened.
I didn't understand, like shewasn't in distress, why did I
need to have an emergencycesarean?
Why did I need to have theinduction?
And they told me that she wasasynclitic.
(54:30):
I think it is.
So her head was tilted and itwas hitting my cervix, so it was
swelling her head and it wasswelling my cervix.
So the way they put it to me.
I couldn't have done anything.
Like she was that far into thepelvis that they couldn't see
that her neck, her head wastilted.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
So like her body was trying to push down but her neck
was twisting each time.
Speaker 2 (54:50):
Yeah, so it was just like just hitting me and so she
just wasn't progressing, likeshe was just hitting.
And so, look, I still have alot of issues around it and I
really, really, really hope thatI can do a natural birth the
next time around.
And I mean, I don't know thatthere was anything that I could
have done differently.
I don't know that there wasanything that I could have done
(55:11):
differently.
I don't know.
I'm in two minds.
I feel like I could have doneit, but they're telling me I
couldn't have, so I don't know.
The next birth I said I want todo it from home.
I want to have a home birth.
I want to have, you know,control over who's in my space.
Like I didn't get to labor athome.
I didn't get to labor at home.
I didn't get to, had no control, and for someone that has
obsessive compulsive disorder,having control is everything you
(55:36):
know, and so that's what Istruggle with, I think, is
having that taken away from me.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
Definitely, if there was one thing I could go back
and change with any of our birthstories, it would be to give my
wife the okay to do a homebirth.
That's my biggest regret.
She always wanted to do a homebirth and I was terrified of
that because I wasn't reallyeducated, especially just after
(56:05):
our first birth.
She also hemorrhaged and likebaby was born unresponsive and
there was a lot of traumasurrounding all of that.
So I was like to have thatgoing on in our home, away from
medical care and things likethat, like that's probably out
of the realm of possibility formy own comfort.
Speaker 2 (56:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:19):
And she went along with that, and that's something
that I regret and that'ssomething that I hold a lot of
guilt towards.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
But it's something that you don't know, you know
Exactly, and it's so hardbecause, and especially where we
live, we're not, you know, fiveminutes from a hospital, and
that's it does play on my mindand I think I would only do it
if I have, you know, an easierpregnancy.
We did have a lot ofcomplications, so, you know, in
that regard I'm thankful, but atthe same time I just feel like
(56:51):
I'm thankful but at the sametime I just feel like, yeah, a
lot was taken out of my handsand I do have the same concerns.
You know what happens if baby'sunresponsive or if I hemorrhage
.
You know it's 50 minutes to thenearest, you know, to the
hospital.
So it's, yeah, it's a lot toconsider, but people have been
doing it for, you know, hundredsand hundreds of years.
Speaker 1 (57:08):
So yeah, let's start a business together.
Mate, we'll start home birthAirbnbs.
Yeah, somewhere close to ahospital.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
Home births in the ranges.
Speaker 1 (57:21):
yeah, We'll buy an apartment and turn it into a
nice little birthing suite.
Beautiful, just close to ahospital, so people can have
their own space.
Speaker 2 (57:29):
They can have birthing baths outside, and, oh,
it'd be great.
That would be good, wouldn't it?
Speaker 1 (57:35):
Yeah.
So I mean, yeah, quite a storyand quite a birth story.
It's a lot of trauma and a lotof healing and learning every
day about yourself.
So, yeah, our stories aren'toverly dissimilar.
Speaker 2 (57:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:51):
After we've wrapped up, I'll send you through the
episode where my wife talksabout her birth, if you're
interested.
Speaker 2 (57:56):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (57:56):
You might find a little bit of healing in just
listening to other people gothrough similar things.
Speaker 2 (58:01):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
So before we wrap up, is there anything else you want
to throw out into the world?
You can plug your businessesonce more, real quick.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
Cool, all right.
So we've got our gypsycollection, then we've got your
ideal day agency and then we'vegot Elkie May, the label.
So they're my three babies, Ithink.
Just want to let everyone knowthat, be you like, be you
unapologetically, you knowpeople are going to not like who
you are.
Those people don't pay yourbills.
(58:30):
Those people aren't, you know,are going to not like who you
are.
Those people don't pay yourbills, those people aren't, you
know, living your life and Ithink you've got to do what's
best for you and that that canbe different for everyone.
You know my choice to stay homeand work from home and and try
to manage things that way.
It's not for everyone, you know, and that that's not me saying
that that's the right way to doit.
Like, if you want to go backinto the workforce and that's
what you want to do, do that.
(58:51):
But just don't let anyonedictate what you should do or
what you think is the rightthing, and just be kind to
people.
Like, just you know, I justwant to remove the stigma around
mental health, like, whetheryou know it or not and whether
you believe it, every singleperson I thoroughly believe on
this earth has some form ofmental illness or some form of
(59:13):
mental illness tendencies ortrauma or something, whether
they know it, whether it'ssubconscious, whether you know
it's diagnosed.
So I just feel like we need tobe kinder to people and be more
genuine.
Just yeah, I think that that'smy main thing.
My main thing, yeah, do you.
And more genuine, just yeah, Ithink that that's my main thing.
Speaker 1 (59:32):
My main thing?
Speaker 2 (59:32):
Yeah, do you, and you know.
Speaker 1 (59:34):
Do you Be kind?
Speaker 2 (59:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (59:37):
Have fun in life, but don't fuck up the fun of other
people.
Exactly, that's my mantra yeah,absolutely yeah absolutely
Awesome, yeah, so I mean, thestigma of mental health is
something that's ever changingin public and in our community,
and it's conversations like thisthat are definitely helping
move that along.
So I do appreciate your timetoday and I do appreciate your
(59:59):
vulnerability in speaking aboutyour experiences, because I can
guarantee you that there'ssomeone out there that's
experienced similar and willtake a lot from this
conversation.
Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
Yeah, so we're all in it to help each other.
Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
In October I am doing a fundraiser.
I'm walking 100 kilometers forthe Black Dog Institute to raise
money.
I love them and because you'realso local, I'll probably be in
contact with you.
See, if you want to go for awalk, I might try to get some of
the locals that I've had on thepodcast to get a little group
together maybe do a lap or twoaround Lancefield Park.
Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
That's the only way I'll exercise.
Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
With other people.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Yeah, that'll definitely be a cause I'm the
same.
Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
I'm literally a meter from my home gym and I look at
it every day and I'm like Ishould do something.
No, I gym and I look at itevery day and I'm like I should
do something.
Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
No, I'd rather eat instead.
Yeah, not about that life,that's it All right.
Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Well, thank you very much.
Naomi, Appreciate it.
And enjoy your day.
Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
You too Bye.
Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Bye, bye, bye.
Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
Bye, bye, bye, to make it so my life's a better
place.
If there's one thing I see,then your only thing is me Just
knowing that I'm trying to makea change.
(01:01:20):
Can I put it all on me,responsibilities, and all the
other nonsense coming byrepeatedly?
But there's one thing I knowit's knowing to let go.
Just knowing that I'm trying tomake a change, does it seem too
(01:01:44):
much just to ask for love?
Cause there's many things thatI do over, and I've got a lot,
but I won't give up On thosemany things that I do over.
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