April 9, 2025 • 53 mins
After escaping a controlling religious cult as a teenager, Lockie shares his journey of rebuilding his life, becoming a father to three children, and finding healing through therapy, art, and community.
• Growing up in a Christ-based cult that restricted medical care, education, and social connections
• Experiencing sexual abuse within the cult environment with ongoing court cases against other members
• Being disowned by his parents at age 17 when he questioned his faith
• Supporting himself through his final year of school while homeless and couch-surfing
• Becoming a father and struggling to create healthy parenting patterns without positive models
• Receiving ADHD and autism diagnoses as an adult after years of being told these conditions weren't real
• Finding unexpected healing through graffiti art and the community it provided
• Rebuilding a limited but meaningful relationship with his parents who remain in the cult
• Using therapy to process religious trauma and break generational cycles
• Balancing legal and illegal aspects of graffiti culture while finding creative expression
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
We would like to acknowledge the traditional
custodians of this land.
We pay our respects to theElders, past, present and
emerging, for they hold thememories, the traditions and the
culture of the Aboriginal andTorres Strait Islander people
across the nation.
And she was like smacked andtold not to cry, which is, you
know, a lot for a young teen tomentally.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It's a lot for anyone .
It's a lot for anyone, mate.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
When mommy was a little girl and mommy left her
dad, and when daddy was a boy,he got bullied really bad.
When mommy met daddy, they feltsomething neither had.
Then mommy became a mommy anddad became a dad.
Now you're screaming at yourbrother in his leg or underfoot.
We're trying to do the best wecan, but it's not very good.
Daddy's really sorry.
He didn't mean to shout.
(00:52):
We all get a little touchdown.
We all get a little.
We all get a little.
We all get a little touchdown.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
All right.
Today we have a good friend ofmine, Lockie.
Lockie is a father of threechildren and he resides in
Queensland.
How are you going today, lockie?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Not too bad mate, Not too bad at all.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Good to see you, mate .
It's been a hot minute sincewe've spoken somewhat face to
face.
Yeah, it really has, eh it has.
So, for the listeners out there, why don't we start off with a
little bit about yourself and alittle bit about your family?
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I guess normal 36-year-old dude.
Three kids five, seven and 13.
Technically Jaden's, notbiologically mine, but raised
him since he was one, I thinkone and a half.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, that's the 13-year-old.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Okay, yeah, so he considers you a dad.
All of that, yeah, Yep,beautiful.
Now you have a little bit of adifferent story.
You, from what I understand,were raised in for lack of a
better term a cult, Is thatright?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, I was Growing up I didn't really realise, but
obviously as you get older youstart to realise that sort of
thing, learn exactly what it was.
It kind of seemed like a, justa normal, I don't know church
when I was younger.
But as I got into early teens,started realizing how
(02:30):
controlling it was.
And then I think I also startedto not I don't know if it was
exactly the cult, but like Ididn't really have a lot of
faith in any religion, I sort ofcame to that decision and then
I learned the real harsh truthsof it by, like, when you stop
(02:53):
going, your whole family likedon't talk to you anymore,
completely kick you out.
Um yeah, it was uh kind ofinteresting so you were born
into the cult.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Your parents were already a part of it, yeah, and
they're still a part of it?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yes, they are.
I've only just sort of startedtalking to them again the last
few years, since I've had kidsand whatnot.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Okay, cool, We'll definitely get into more of that
, but I do want to kind of hearabout your experiences
throughout your childhood andearly teen years, whilst you
were still in the cult.
You know the things that youkind of saw and the things that
you had to endure.
So you said it was a religiouscult, so it was Christ-based.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yes yeah.
They were very much into thatyou had to be baptized, but not
like as a baby.
Like the Catholics do you sortof have to do that.
When you're about 13, 14, iswhen they kind of expect you to
do that and allegedly receivethe Holy Spirit and speak in
(04:06):
tongues and stuff okay, it's oneof those.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
One of those calls yeah, yeah rough it was.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It was because I never really I faked it, because
I felt pretty left out, traded,you know what I mean like I
couldn't understand why everyoneelse was and I wasn't.
But turns out everyone wasfaking it.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
From what I've heard talking to others that have left
um, so when, when growing up ina cult because it's it's very
much know all about devotingyour life to God and all of that
, there's really not much roomto have an upbringing where you
(04:51):
learn, like you know, scienceand other things that would
probably be really helpful inregards to, like, understanding
your own mental health andemotional intelligence your own
mental health and emotionalintelligence.
Did you grow up feeling anytype of mental health issues or
having any type of mental healthissues due to your surroundings
?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Yes.
So I always felt like I wasslightly different which I then
have learned out at a later ageand got diagnosed with ADHD and
autism, but they never in any ofthose mental health issues.
They didn't believe in anymedicines at all.
You weren't allowed to see amedical practitioner, you just
(05:32):
had to sort of pray about it andbe healed, which had some
interesting you know, thingslike I remember breaking my
ankle when I was a kid and Iwasn't allowed to go get a cast
or anything, I just had to sitthere and let it heal.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah right.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Like you were saying about science and stuff, yeah,
there were certain scienceclasses I couldn't take.
I wasn't allowed to do sexualed at school.
I wasn't allowed to do any ofthe religious educations, so I'd
just have to sort of sit off bymyself in the school library
whilst the other classes didwhat they had to do, which you
know can definitely make youfeel like an outcast.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, definitely.
So you went to a normal likeintegrated school.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, yeah, I went to a normal public school, but I
just wasn't allowed to sit insome of those classes.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
That would have been fucking hard, dude yeah yeah,
you would have grown up feelingreally insecure, like why am I
so different?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
and yeah, and having and already having that with the
adhd and, uh, autism and thenlike that on top and all the
outcasts sort of stuff that camewith it, like certain movies we
couldn't watch, you know, musicand books we weren't allowed to
read or watch.
They were very controlling.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, right, and what would happen if there was any
type of pushback or if you werefound to be breaking rules?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
So a lot of trouble and punishments.
When you were younger, as Isort of got into an early teen,
there was a lot of be like putout from the church so you'd
have to stay at home and not goto church for a few weeks or
whatever they deemed theirpunishment was, which now I
realise wasn't really apunishment, it was kind of a
(07:19):
holiday, a bit of a holiday.
I did play into that at about15, 16, you know I I sort of
openly admitted to doing thewrong thing to um get put out
before I built up the courage toleave anyway, just so that I
could stay at home and not go tomeetings and not get in trouble
by my parents like I was like,oh no, I was put out like well,
(07:42):
you know, what can you do?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
and did you yourself witness any type of like abuse
of power or violence towardsother members or children of
members, things like that?
Speaker 1 (07:53):
uh, yeah, there was um a bit of that and also abuse
there too.
I was uh sexually abused when Iwas a teenager there as well by
someone.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I mean I'm sorry to hear that that's fucking
horrible man.
But thank you for sharing.
Totally fine if you don't wantto kind of go into any more
detail of that.
I do understand that there fromthe research that I've done,
there was or is investigationsgoing of like pastors and things
like that who have been, whoare being investigated for
(08:26):
sexual abuse of minorsthroughout the years that the
cult has been active.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, I've seen some of that, and I know there's a
case going on at the moment withone of the guys I grew up with
that was only a couple of yearsolder than me.
That had also done a lot ofthat too.
There's a case going on in thecourts at the moment about him.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
It's really fucking angers me.
These people are put in thisposition of power and they say
that they're living through theword of God and yet they can
still commit such heinous andevil acts upon their fellow
humans.
Yes, commit such heinous andevil acts upon, you know, their
fellow humans.
Yeah, all for what?
All for what?
(09:07):
To get a golden ticket into thenext fucking life.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Which is sort of where I came to the realisation.
I was like, well, if that'swhere they're all going, I kind
of don't want to go.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, yeah, straight up.
If you're going to be in heaven, I don't fucking want to go.
Yeah, exactly right.
I in heaven, I don't fuckingwant to go.
Yeah, exactly right, I'll takemy son to the things, mate.
So you were 17, you said whenyou left the church Is that
right?
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, yeah, about 16, 17.
I finally built up the courageto leave.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
And how did that look ?
Did you go to your parentsfirst, or did you just kind of
bail out or run me through theexperience?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
So I tried to get kicked out and it kind of
backfired on me.
I went to the pastor in chargeand was like, look, this is
everything I've done, like youknow, having a girlfriend
drinking, smoking, all sorts ofstuff that wasn't allowed.
They never did any of that andI was hoping to get, like you
(10:13):
know, a big couple years ofbeing put out.
And he sort of went you candeal with it yourself and come
back when you're ready and I waslike, oh damn, that didn't kind
of work.
So then I went to my parents.
It took a while.
It was a pretty hard thing tobuild up the courage to do
because, like everyone thatyou've grown up with like just
(10:34):
excommunicates you, like itcompletely wipes you out.
And you know, the Geelong whereI grew up like it's not that
big of a town considering therewas, I think there's about 800
members of the church.
So I mean you couldn't walkthrough town without seeing a
few of them.
And knowing that, you know I'mgonna lose all my friends there,
(10:55):
everyone I'd grown up with myparents.
So it took a bit but I finallyjust uh, had had enough and had
it had enough, I'd been living adouble life at that point, like
playing along at church andpretending I was that person,
but also then going off withschoolmates and other things and
living a semi-normal life.
(11:16):
And, yeah, I just built up thecourage at about 16, 17 and was
just like I'm done with this andtold my parents I didn't want
to go anymore.
I didn't believe in God.
Done with this and told myparents I didn't want to go
anymore, I didn't believe in God, um, and they were basically
like they tried to, you know,talk me into staying.
But they were basically likeall right, if that's your
decision, there's the door.
Nice, knowing you.
Um, I had to move out and, um,get a job and pay for my last
(11:44):
year of school.
I was going to school and slepton a mate's couch and then
slowly built up a normal lifefrom there it's a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
It's a lot to uh protest a process for a 16 17
year old mate yeah, yeah, thatis.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
You know I I didn't process it the right way.
A lot of it, you know I gotinto some mischief and a couple
of addictions and those sorts ofthings.
But yeah, I guess I've come outthe other side pretty good, I
think.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
So I think we've known each other, I'd say for
the better part of a decade.
We met through mutual friends,yes, at some parties and whatnot
, where we were both up to somemischief.
And I just it was funny becauseI only found out, like maybe
what?
Two, three months ago?
You divulged to me that you hadan upbringing in a cult.
(12:36):
I would have never knownotherwise.
I was just always like thatLockie's just a bloody lovely
bloke.
He's got a good head on hisshoulders, he's approachable,
he'ske, he's got a good head onhis shoulders, he's approachable
, he's friendly, he'skind-hearted.
You know, like all of these,you know lovely, touchy-feely
things and then you know to findout you've had a pretty fucking
hard slog.
You know Not that people whohave had hard slogs
(13:00):
intrinsically are shit people ornot kind in any way,
intrinsically a shit people ornot kind in any way.
But I think it's a testament tothe hard work that you've put
into yourself.
After the fact of leaving thecult, yeah, definitely, you've
come out on the other side likeyou.
Just you're a fucking good dude.
So the um, so after you've,after you've left the cult,
(13:21):
you've, you've moved out of'house, you said you've gotten a
job paid for your last year ofschool.
You're just couch surfing onmates' couches, is that right?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Yeah, pretty much, until a few of us got a house
together.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Beautiful.
So you've been in share housesessentially since you were like
17?
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, pretty much.
Unless other than being inlong-term relationships?
Yeah, pretty much.
Unless other than being inlong-term relationships.
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, so you're now 36.
We're the same age.
So, essentially, 20-ish yearsafter life in a cult, run me
through those years from lifeafter cult, the beginning of
your life after the cult, to nowI don't remember the first few
(14:10):
years after it, honestly that'stotally fair.
I reckon there would have beena little bit of numbing of the
senses.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, yeah, definitely Absolutely.
And then, um, I don't know,just um working and, you know,
living life I moved.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Have you had many?
Have you had many differentcareers or have you kind of
stuck to the same industries orConstruction and civil mostly,
but I have had a lot ofdifferent jobs.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
but I think some of that plays into the ADHD and you
know, either getting bored orlosing interest, yeah.
Yeah definitely yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
So you've got three kids.
You said that your stepson,which we will just say is your
son, yeah 13.
And how old were your other two?
Sorry, five and seven.
Five and seven, okay.
So tell me about eight yearsago, when you first found out
(15:18):
that you were going to become afather.
Walk me through, uh, the waysin which your mental health and
your upbringing played a part inyour mind frame throughout that
time at the start.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I was kind of excited at first.
When I first found out I waslike, oh, this is a bit of a
shock, but all right.
Then I think I started gettingI read I didn't want you know it
(15:54):
really, want you know it really.
Uh, dawned on me like I didn'twant to have any of my
upbringing stuff put through onthem.
You know, I did get um a bitdepressed after we had a miles
um about just dealing with itall and the um, the stress of
not turning out like my parentsand that so it was just, it was
(16:17):
um, it's kind of like a fear offailure yes, yeah, yeah,
definitely.
Yeah, you know trying to uhbreak the cycles but, like you
know, uh out of like in yourhead you've sort of got how you
were brought up and how you wereparented as a kid and then
(16:38):
you're trying to like I know Iwas trying to fight a lot of
that and how they parented anddo it my own way, which was very
daunting.
Yeah, it took a lot to get usedto, but I think I've finally
sort of got the hang of it it's,um, it's.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
It's incredibly hard work when you yourself were
raised without the greatest ofrole models or the most
supportive of people in yourlife.
You're essentially writing abrand new book on parenting and
you have to write every pageevery day, and sometimes you
have to go back and scribbleshit out and rewrite whole
chapters, and it's just thisever-changing landscape of just
(17:18):
absolute fuckery.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
It really is, hey.
And like you catch yourself allthe time like going to say or
do something and you're like, ohwait, no, like that's not.
You know, that was just sort ofbred into me, but you know,
like that's what.
I was used to growing up andthen I don't want to be like
(17:41):
that.
So you've got to sort of catchyourself in the moment and stop.
Yeah, a lot of like takingmyself for a couple of minutes.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, I still do it as well, yeah yeah.
I still do it as well.
No one's perfect, but it's also.
It's really great that we'reable to be mindful enough to
kind of once we've, once thewords are out, there's no going
back.
But it's what you do in theaftermath.
It's like I shouldn't have saidthat.
I said that without thinking.
That's not what I actuallythink, that's not what I
(18:10):
actually feel.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Let me try that again and roll it back and I think
one of the big differences isI've had a lot of those
conversations with the kids andI've had a lot of conversations
where I'm like even just havingconversations because I don't,
my parents didn't really talkabout a lot like a lot of
emotion, a lot of anything like.
(18:32):
It was just, you know, hard andfast, this is how is.
But I know I've definitely hada lot of those conversations
with the kids and, you know,admitted, when I've, you know,
had a slip up or I shouldn'thave, you know, done this or
that or said this or whatever,yeah, definitely it's sad.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
It's sad to hear so many stories about people's you
know, especially people our ageand their parents just not being
emotionally available in anyway, shape or form.
And if you were to ask for themto be emotionally available, it
was turned down quite oftenwith with um, with argument or
(19:17):
violence.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
So if you were to approach your parents back then
to try to speak about emotionsor anything like that, were they
very just like dismissive.
Yeah, you know, go pray to God,you'll be okay, kind of.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah, definitely like that and didn't really talk
about a lot of stuff.
To be honest, it was, I realizeda few years ago it was mostly
like a lot of small talk aroundthe house.
There wasn't anything of depthand definitely no real emotions,
which I've had big, longconversations with my sister now
she left a few years ago.
(19:55):
We didn't really get alonggrowing up but I'm so glad of.
We've had some like made up andhad some like we've really got
along now we're really close andhad some big long conversations
about growing up and everythingwe went through like I know,
when I was running a muck andthen leaving she was copying a
lot of shit at home now we'retaking it out on her and that
(20:19):
sort of thing.
But we've had some, yeah, realbig conversations about how
there wasn't much emotion in thehouse and she was like I
remember she was telling me theother week about like she got in
trouble one day, like she gotsmacked because she was crying
and emotional and she was likesmacked and told not to cry,
which is, you know, a lot for ayoung teen to uh you know it's a
(20:45):
lot for anyone.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
It's a lot for anyone , mate yeah yeah, imagine
imagine as a 36 year old beingpunched in the face for crying
and saying that you're upset.
Could you imagine what youwould do now that you've had all
this lived experience?
Imagine someone being like stopfucking crying and hitting you.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, which is only going to make you cry.
More like realistically.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, you're not wrong.
It's like way to go.
Mum and dad make it about youand not me.
So you said your sister left afew years ago.
Yeah, did she reach out to you?
I'm guessing that you and herhad zero contact after you left.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
How long between you leaving and her contacting you
or you guys getting in contactwith each other?
Speaker 1 (21:40):
we'd said like little things, like you know, happy
birthday and whatever,throughout the years I guess,
but um, it was.
I left at 17, it's probably agood 10 or more years before we
really started talking.
There were some little bits,but then it was about five years
ago.
I think she finally left fouryears ago and um, that's, I
(22:01):
think it was when I firstactually was, when I first
started having kids.
That would have been about umseven years ago, when we had
miles.
That's when she sort of camearound and started talking to me
again too and was likecongratulations and stuff and
that sort of kicked it off, um,and then she said she wasn't,
you know, gonna go anymore andleft and um, uh, yeah, we've um.
(22:27):
And then I think she came up tosee me and that's when it
really started.
Like she came up to see me oncewe had miles and um, uh, yeah,
just sort of made up and startedcatching up from there.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
And is she your older sister or younger sister,
younger, younger, younger?
Okay, so did you.
After you learned that she hadleft the church, did you feel
like you needed to take on likea support role for her and guide
her through life post-cult?
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yes, yeah, I definitely did.
She didn't have a lot ofcontact with other people that
had left.
She was sort of doing her ownthing.
I guess that was kind of a goodthing in leaving, was that
other people that had beenthrough?
It and left that you'd knownfrom previously, obviously would
reach out and be like you know.
(23:21):
Are you okay?
Do you need anything?
so I knew I had to like sort ofsupport her and help her with
what I could.
She was doing pretty well andfocusing on her career and stuff
like that at the time, so shewas pretty good, but I was, yeah
, I reached out to her and, um,made sure she was okay and said
I'm always here and this is whatyou to expect, and you know,
(23:43):
these are some of the thingsyou're going to go through?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
yeah, definitely now.
You did mention before that youhave had some contact with your
parents in the last couple ofyears yeah that I think that
having kids sort of softenedthem up a bit.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
It's they're great with the kids.
We are still on sort of youknow, it's uh, still slightly
awkward and there's it's still alot of small talk.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I still don't have huge conversations with them,
but they've been great with thekids okay, so they so they they
actively are a part of yourkids' lives and your life to an
extent now, and they're still apart of the church.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yes, which is wild.
But they became a lot morelenient and I think they just
realised they were going to missout on the grandkids' lives.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Did you have trouble rectifying any sort of emotions
within yourself in allowing themto have a relationship with
your kids?
Speaker 1 (24:47):
A little bit, and I still do, but I'm just glad that
they're there for the kids.
I did also have a lot oftrouble with the fact that
they're better grandparents thanparents.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
It's always the case, I think.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, that really brought up some shit, yeah, but
no, they really are, are they'vereally been great.
And I remember when they firstso they first came up to
queensland when we had miles um,and one of the biggest shocks,
I think, for me was, um, theyrocked up at the house and dad's
(25:20):
like sat down on the couch andheld baby miles.
But mum realized straight away,or knew straight away, that you
know, jayden would be feelingleft out, being the bigger kid,
so like as soon as they walkedin the door I remember her
running off and like taking himand playing cars on the floor
with him and making sure he'snever felt left out or anything
(25:41):
like that.
So, yeah, they really sort ofpulled together for the For the
grandkids.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
yeah, Well, I mean, that is nice.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It pisses me off for you.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Oh, yeah, yeah, but sorry, I'm getting through it
and going to therapy.
It is what it is.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah, so you're actively intherapy.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, okay, and how long have you been doing that?
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Three years ago, I think I realised two years ago.
It was when I worked out that Ihad, or started assuming that I
had, the ADHD and I went andgot the diagnosis for that and
found out it was ADHD and autismand then I started getting
therapy along the lines of thatand just trying to work
everything else out as well.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, ripper, so you do actively go, like on a
frequent basis, to therapy.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
It's.
I've been going out.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
It's every third week , I think I go and see a
therapist Beautiful.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
And do you feel like, from prior to beginning therapy
to now, do you feel like you'vecome a long way as far as your
own mental health and your ownunderstanding of yourself goes?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, I do it's still still.
You know, I don't think it'sever something that's gonna be
completely worked out or easy.
You know, there's definitelyweeks where you go in and go
through some stuff and thenyou're like you're a fucking
mess for the next week.
But yeah, no, I definitely, I'mdefinitely doing a lot better
(27:20):
after sort of sorting all thatout and starting to go to
therapy yeah, yeah, good, I'mglad to hear it.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
It's, um, it's.
It's quite odd because, as Isaid, we've been friends for
about a part of a decade, um,but with you being in queensland
and me being in victoria, wehaven't had a lot of kind of
face-to-face hangs.
You know, there's been a coupleof times where you've randomly
rocked up at the house, beinglike I'm from Victoria or like
(27:49):
parties and whatnot.
But I do have to tip my hat andcommend you because I have
definitely seen and noticed alot of personal growth just
based off like social media, andto see you in your current life
, thriving and happy and healthy, warms my heart, you too dude
(28:11):
you too.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Honestly, I've seen a huge growth in you, and
starting this was a big thingtoo and it was a big uh help for
me as well, I think.
Just, I think the whole um,mental health thing and how it's
being talked about and workedout a lot more now and a lot
more open is, uh, a huge thing,because it was definitely,
(28:33):
definitely not talked about oryou know this openly when we
were growing up, god no.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And look, we've still got a lot of a a lot of work to
do and a lot of change to getthrough, but I'm pretty chuffed
that I get to be kind of a partof it.
I remember talking to youbefore I launched the podcast
about it and about what I waswanting to do and how I was
wanting to do it.
And then we didn't talk for awhile and I'd started releasing
(29:01):
episodes and then I think youmessaged me being like I've been
listening to every episode andI just felt so fucking grateful,
you know I was so proud of youfor starting it.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
You know, I think we've both grown a lot since we
met, but from who we were whenwe met at parties um a long time
ago to now is a huge growth anda big growth.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, yeah, mate, we're not the dirty little
gremlins anymore.
Well, maybe not to the sameextent.
No very good.
So run me through what life iscurrently like for you.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I do understand that you have yourself a lovely
partner I do, I do a lovelypartner, I, I do, I do.
So, yeah, I've got a lovelypartner, um, who has been a huge
help as well and is extremelyum open and supportive in that
mental health uh uh field uhworking um constantly and
(30:08):
co-parenting that's a a fun newchallenge.
That's also taken some you knowgetting used to and I have to
go like that's a subject attherapy a bit as well, trying
not to bring my emotions intothe co-parenting.
You know what I mean.
Like you leave all that aboutand just do it for the kids yeah
(30:30):
, being cordial and whatnot yeah, which is like it isn't that
hard.
We're not, like you know, supernasty to each other or anything
like that, but there are.
You know.
There are moments where stuffcomes up and you have to sort of
block your emotions out andjust get through it yeah, so you
, you were with you, with yourkid's mum for quite a while.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
It was only maybe what.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Like two, three years ago, you guys separated uh,
yeah, so I was with her for 11,12 years and then about two
years ago we separated too, anda bit, I think Right about the
time I was going through thediscovering ADHD and that side
(31:13):
of it we both coincided.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Did one have anything to do with the other, or was it
just about the same time?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
No, it didn't really.
I it's funny.
I actually I realized due tosome memes actually, um, about
the adh, yeah, yeah, I I read ameme one day and I was like damn
, that's like that hits so hard.
And then I went to the page,basically went through the
(31:44):
entire page and was like everyone of these is like so close to
home, it's not funny.
And then I remember gettingonto YouTube.
I like started looking up somestuff and I got onto YouTube and
this uh lady on there that umtalks about adhd stuff.
I watched about four of hervideos and was just a blubbering
(32:04):
fucking mess and had never feltso understood before.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
So I got straight on, yeah, getting into a diagnosis.
It's funny because that'salmost the same way I started my
journey, like it was kind of itwas partly my son going through
his diagnosis for autism and mywife and I being, like you guys
are a little bit similar, but Iwas.
(32:29):
But I was also like there's noway I have fucking autism.
I'd know by now, like because Ihad a very, very limited
understanding of autism and justhow much of a fucking spectrum
it really is.
You know, yeah, but it wasTikTok.
There's an Australian TikTokernamed Kobe Watts and he posts
ADHD like funny clips andwhatnot.
(32:51):
Yeah, yeah.
I think George tagged me in oneof them and I saw it and I was
like holy shit, that is me.
And yeah, like not long after Iwas like, yeah, I got the ADHD
diagnosis.
And then then as everyone onhere knows, because I fucking
talk about it constantly notlong after that, was the autism
diagnosis yeah, it's uh, it's anincredible tool, social media,
(33:17):
in finding communities.
Yeah, and it pisses me off thatthere's a lot of people that are
turning their noses up at itand saying that being diagnosed
adhd and autistic or vice versais uh, is a fucking trend it's
it's not a trend.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
It's just that everyone now understands that
we're not alone that's exactlyit, and I remember seeing a post
one day about someone.
Someone had put a post upsaying, like you know, it never
used to be around and now it's atrend that everyone's jumping
on but it, I think it wasn'tlong after that I saw another
one that basically rebuttaledthat.
Where they were, like it hasbeen around forever.
(33:58):
Like your grandma having nofilter and saying stuff all the
time and you know you couldn'ttouch her stuff in her house, it
had to be a certain way.
And your grandpa, like having amodel train set and playing
with that for 30 hours a fuckingday, like yeah, it's always
been around, they just didn'tknow, or didn't you know?
Speaker 2 (34:17):
yeah, exactly right.
I um, I saw that was similar.
It was just like autism neverused to be a thing.
But you go to your family'shouse for a Friday dinner and
your dad tells you to get out ofthe same chair that he's been
sitting in for fucking 40 years.
And they have the same dinnerevery Friday night and he
watches his shows at the sametime and goes to bed at the same
time.
(34:38):
Yeah, 100%, 100% yeah yeah,been wearing the same slippers
for 30 years, yeah it's funny.
It's, it's autism now, but backthen it's just, he's just
particular.
Yes, yeah, just set, set in hisways.
That makes me laugh.
And, um, I mean looking backand I hope my father never
(35:01):
listens to this episode becauseI feel like he would be
mortified.
But the more I have lookedthrough the autistic lens of
life since my diagnosis, themore I kind of think, fuck, my
parents were definitely on thespectrum sister and I have had
(35:27):
big conversations about that.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I see a lot of um, adhd stuff in dad um, and it's
funny I'm in a group chat onFacebook with all their family,
like dad's family and stuff.
That side of the family.
A lot of them are in Englandand the UK and stuff, but they
had they're always like, oh,we're a quirky family.
And then a couple of weeks agoone of my cousins put in there
like all right, we always sayquirky, but you know, my son's
(35:48):
being diagnosed.
I've been diagnosed.
Like who's actually haddiagnoses and what are they?
And a whole bunch of the familyposted and they're all sort of
starting to get diagnosed withstuff at the moment and it runs
rampant through that side of thefamily.
But, um, my sister and I've hadbeen having big chats and my mom
is hard on the spectrum, likehard out on the spectrum.
(36:11):
Um, I remember like we weretalking about it and bringing up
stuff that you know we'dthought of or seen.
That fit into that and therewas always this running joke we
went and stayed at a holidayhouse years ago when we were
kids.
Under the fireplace they had astack of newspapers to like be
able to like start the fire withand they were all messy and mum
(36:35):
pulled them all out and fuckingput them all back in like super
neat and that was her favouriteday of the fucking holiday and
we always had the running.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
You put them in chronological order and then,
yeah, now you look back at itwith this and you're like, oh
okay, all right, I get where shewas going on that, yeah yeah,
my mom used to um habituallyclean my bedroom, and I always,
growing up, I always assumed itwas just to search my room for
drugs and alcohol and all thatsort of shit.
But yeah, I definitely thinkback now, and she always put
(37:06):
everything in the places thatshe wanted them to be put.
Yes, everything was curatedperfectly.
Yes, and then every six months,I could set my watch to it.
Every six months, she wouldrearrange my room, rearrange the
house, and that's just how shewas.
My room rearranged the house,and that's just how she was.
You know, also had a gamblingaddiction, which is pretty
(37:26):
rampant for someone that may ormay not have been on the
spectrum, or ADHD, impulsecontrol issues, addiction issues
, you know.
Yeah, it makes me sad a littlebit, because I wish that we
could go back in time and havethese resources available for
people from other generations.
Not only that, though, but theywould have to be open to such
(37:47):
things.
You couldn't go back too far,because if we had these
resources available, then halfthe population would end up with
a fucking lobotomy.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah, you're not wrong.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
And that's like the open things.
Another thing, like I knowdefinitely with the church cult,
I remember multiple talksactually from the platform that,
like ADHD didn't exist and theywere just disobedient and
needed to be punished andsmacked more.
So I think that was a big thingthat played into like it not
(38:21):
getting recognised or picked upin me as a kid.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah, it's funny.
You kind of look back todifferent kind of scenarios, or
what was that saying?
Idle hands are the devil's work, or something like that.
Idle hands are the devil'splayground, something like that.
I'm just going to fact checkmyself Idle hands are the
devil's playthings?
Yeah, workshop, fuck them,something like that.
(38:47):
It's just ADHD.
It's not the devil, absolutely.
I just fidget a lot because Ilack a lot of dopamine.
Yeah, so we'll get back ontotrack, because that was a
massive, massive falling off thetrack, but anyway.
Yeah, that was a massive,massive falling off the track,
but anyway, yeah.
So current life I also want todiscuss your life as a
(39:09):
incredibly talented graffitiartist, which is also another
reason why we are going to bleepout your name and keep your
face off social media.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
So tell me a little bit about how that all started.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
As a kid I was obsessed, but obviously it was
heavily frowned upon.
I mean it still is in most ofsociety.
I just I don't know what it was.
It was the rawness and thecolours and craziness of it all.
(39:47):
I just was obsessed with mostlyyour big pieces too, not all
this little teenager tagging apersonal property fence or
anything like that, but justabsolutely smitten by it, never
really pursued it very hard as akid or a teen, because I think
also as a teen I sort of had alook into it and a lot of the
(40:10):
people I met were pretty shadycharacters, because it can draw
some of those sort of people.
But a fair few years ago wemoved back to Melbourne from
Queensland for a little bit andI was working in melbourne and
in the laneways all the timedelivering stuff in trucks and I
just it just kicked off againand that love for it came back
(40:32):
um and I started drawing andsketching at home, bits and
pieces.
Then we had the lockdowns and Ihad nothing to do but sit at
home and draw and sketch.
And I met.
I went to the paint shop topick up some stuff and just
paint a board at home and metthe guy that owned the paint
shop and was having a big chat.
I think I was like meant to goin there for like 10 minutes and
(40:54):
pick up some paint and I wasthere for like three hours.
We talked for quite some timeafter that like online and
whatever, and he took me out todo some stuff and meet a few of
the boys up here and it justtook off and it snowballed and
in the last three years I'vejust, yeah, gone crazy with it.
(41:16):
It's probably like it's a goodsource of dopamine and all that
sort of thing, but it's probablythe least harmful addiction I
could have or have had.
I guess you could say but yeah,it's just a lot of fun and I
just love creating stuff.
I love drawing constantly, Ilove coming up with stuff going
(41:37):
out.
There's a few big legal wallsup here, so we'll go and have
out.
There's a few big legal wallsup here so we'll go and have.
Or there's a couple that aren'texactly legal but like no one
really cares that.
It's the back of factories outin the middle of nowhere.
The blind eye, yeah yeah, yeahyeah, they don't.
As long as you're there and youdon't leave your rubbish and
don't cause them, you know,break their windows or do
anything stupid, they don't sortof care.
(41:59):
We just go out there andthere'll be like five, six,
seven dudes, ten dudes, andwe'll have big barbecues and
just paint all day and do stufflike that bit of a bit of a
family that you never, never had, hey, yeah definitely,
definitely and it's just, it'staken off.
I've done stuff I never thoughtI would like with it.
(42:22):
I've painted a couple of matesvans that like made camper vans
and toured around australia.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Come up with logos for a couple shops you did an
amazing sketch for my podcast,which I still to this day, um
you know, have saved on my phoneand my computer.
I fucking love it it.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
I felt so special.
Yeah, I loved doing that.
That was good fun.
Yeah, yeah, I was justlistening to you one day and I
was just fucking doodling andthen I was like, no, I'm going
to do this.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah, no, I loved it.
Man, I lit up so hard when yousent that through, like I like
ran into the bedroom whereGeorge was.
I was like babe, look, look,look look.
She was like she's always verykind of.
She doesn't show a lot ofemotion on the outside, she's
emotional to her core, but shedoesn't show a lot of emotion on
(43:12):
the outside, but she goesunless he's cottons.
He's a fucking wholesome guy.
That's what she said.
So have you personally ever hadany um run-ins with the law
whilst out painting?
Speaker 1 (43:28):
or anything yeah, yeah, none where I've been in
like court but yeah, definitely,but had had to leg it a few
times yes, yeah, and I had onethe other week where I got my
first train and I know thatmight be frowned upon by some
(43:48):
people, but I had to tick it offthe list and there was a lot of
security and whatnot there andwe had a big chase after that
but managed to get away.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Is that a part of the thrill, yes, or is that a part
that you don't like?
The chase.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
No, it can be daunting, but a lot of stress
and you're very, you know, sortof freaked out and whatever it's
the, there's a huge the rewardis worth the risk.
(44:27):
Yeah, there's a huge boost onceyou're gone and you got away and
you're home safe and likeyou've made it and all, like you
know a few of us on that oneand we're all like, once we'd
gotten away and sort of run off,we were like we did it, like we
did it, we got it.
It was a good one.
Like you know, yeah, there's abig adrenaline boost.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
The massive kind of two sides of graffiti and the
debate that happens is whetherit's art or not, and because of
the tagging culture versus thegraffiti like big pieces,
culture gets lumped all into theone category by people that
aren't a part of that culture.
(45:09):
I, for one, absolutely hatetagging.
I think it's gross and ugly andjust shit and it's just.
There's no artistic talent toit.
But graffitiing like big piecesand the artistic side of that I
think is really amazing and Iabsolutely love it.
Melbourne has some of the bestgraffiti in the world and I love
(45:32):
seeing, you know, beautifullydone graffiti on trains, but
it's the tagging on the insideof the trains that I fucking
hate.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
I'm not about that either yeah, so how, if, if you
were able to rewrite it and have, uh, you know the world
according to to Lockie, how doyou separate those things and
how do you kind of figure out atreaty with the police and
(46:02):
things like that?
You did mention that there aresome legal walls in Queensland.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Do you think there are?
There are, there's usually likeat least one in every town.
It is funny, everyone hates itwhen it's happening and it's
illegal.
But then a lot of artists havebecome quite popular and gotten
legal and get paid to do bigmurals and all that sort of
(46:27):
stuff and then it's celebratedand kind of romanticized about
when they were doing itillegally but at the time it's
like frowned upon and everyonehates it.
It's a very I don't know, it's avery odd thing to me.
I personally think the policehave a lot better things to
worry about than some dudespainting a fucking boring gray
(46:49):
wall on the highway a colorfulcolor, or you.
You know, the side of the trainlines is usually another one.
Like they're just boring graywalls, we're putting some color
on it, we're not hurting anyone.
You know I I get kind of firedup about that because there's
like what I think I read theother day there's like 4 000
(47:09):
plus untested rape kits sittingin the police stations in
queensland but they're fuckingchaining, chasing down a dude
that put some color on a wall.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Like yeah, I think they have bigger and better
things to worry about than thatbut yeah, it's like something
like something like what 12 12women have been murdered by
their partners in australia inthe last like three or four
months and they're chasingpeople just doing some fucking
art.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Yeah, and a lot of it is art.
A lot of it is art and you knowthey're really getting some
frustration out.
Maybe they're dealing with someof their you know shit that's
going on in their own lives.
Yeah, it's like illegal, butyou know they're going to put a
pretty picture on the side of ahighway or make your commute
(47:59):
brighter and, like you know,they're not really hurting
anyone.
They're not out dealing drugsor breaking into places or doing
other things that they could oryou know do at the time
smashing stuff up, that sort ofthing.
So I feel like it's prettyharmless for the most part and,
um, yeah, there's so much biggerthings to fucking worry about
(48:23):
yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
unfortunately, though , it generally comes down to the
uh, the shitty few who have toruin it for the others, right to
the shitty few who have to ruinit for the others, right yeah,
the ones that are out theredoing pieces that are offensive
or not needed to be put on awall, and then also probably
dealing drugs along with doingthat.
There is a bit of that All ofthat stuff.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
you know, it's definitely taken me some time to
weed out Like I'm veryselective about who I will hang
out with and who I willassociate with and who I uh want
to paint with and that sort ofthing.
There are obviously some prettylow-life characters that get
drawn to it, because it is kindof the uh underworld yeah scene
(49:09):
always happens with any any typeof counterculture.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
You always have that kind of scourge.
How do you, how do you solvethat?
Do you, do you think it wouldserve well to have some sort of
licensing process where youwould undergo like a police
check to obtain, like a graffitilicense?
Speaker 1 (49:38):
obtain like a graffiti license?
I'm not sure, yeah, and I alsothink kind of you know, maybe a
little bit of the draw is it's,you know, it is slightly illegal
, or it is, it's part of thepart of the thing.
It's not mainstream is what Ishould say actually, um, yeah,
yeah and that, but I don't know.
I don't know how they fix it, Ijust maybe.
I definitely think there shouldbe more legal walls and it
should be more encouraged.
(49:59):
There was a big one put in inBrisbane a little while ago.
It's a big waterway drain justnear the city with a big walking
path next to it.
It's been there forever andthey finally made it like.
It used to get painted all thetime anyway, but they finally
made it legal, which is great.
And you'll see you know somekids down there that are fucking
12 having a crack at it, andyou'll see dudes that are like
(50:21):
literally paid to paint otherplaces down there, like trying
out some new stuff.
So I definitely think thereshould be more of that, yeah,
and there should be more of thatand more you know spots that
are legal and you might, youknow, you might discourage it
from being them doing it in thewrong spots and that sort of
thing.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
Yeah, yeah.
I think that would be a goodstart to have more legal wars,
like I'm glad that there arealready legal wars happening.
Definitely needs to be more,though.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
There used to be a lot and then they sort of closed
them all down.
But there's still at least onein every town, I think, from the
best of my knowledge.
But, um, they definitely needto bring them back and do it
again.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
Bring up more.
Yeah, sweet.
Well, mate, I reckon that's uh,that's our time.
Thank you so much for sharingyour journey with me.
It's, um, not only will I, notonly do, I think the listeners
will enjoy hearing about yourjourney, but I really enjoyed
being able to get to know you ona more personal level after
(51:21):
many years of friendship.
Before we end it, is thereanything that you would like to
throw out into the world?
Any?
Speaker 1 (51:28):
thoughts for the listeners.
I'm not off the top of my head,just keep putting out
everything that you're doing andputting out all those companies
that you talk about, like Pandaand all that sort of stuff.
Those things need to be morerecognised and more out there in
people's knowledge.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
Ripper.
Well, thanks very much, brother.
You have a great day.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
You too mate.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Cheers bye.
We would like to acknowledge the traditional
custodians of this land.
We pay our respects to theElders, past, present and
emerging, for they hold thememories, the traditions and the
culture of the Aboriginal andTorres Strait Islander people
across the nation.
And she was like smacked andtold not to cry, which is, you
know, a lot for a young teen tomentally.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It's a lot for anyone .
It's a lot for anyone, mate.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
When mommy was a little girl and mommy left her
dad, and when daddy was a boy,he got bullied really bad.
When mommy met daddy, they feltsomething neither had.
Then mommy became a mommy anddad became a dad.
Now you're screaming at yourbrother in his leg or underfoot.
We're trying to do the best wecan, but it's not very good.
Daddy's really sorry.
He didn't mean to shout.
(00:52):
We all get a little touchdown.
We all get a little.
We all get a little.
We all get a little touchdown.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
All right.
Today we have a good friend ofmine, Lockie.
Lockie is a father of threechildren and he resides in
Queensland.
How are you going today, lockie?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Not too bad mate, Not too bad at all.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Good to see you, mate .
It's been a hot minute sincewe've spoken somewhat face to
face.
Yeah, it really has, eh it has.
So, for the listeners out there, why don't we start off with a
little bit about yourself and alittle bit about your family?
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I guess normal 36-year-old dude.
Three kids five, seven and 13.
Technically Jaden's, notbiologically mine, but raised
him since he was one, I thinkone and a half.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, that's the 13-year-old.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Okay, yeah, so he considers you a dad.
All of that, yeah, Yep,beautiful.
Now you have a little bit of adifferent story.
You, from what I understand,were raised in for lack of a
better term a cult, Is thatright?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, I was Growing up I didn't really realise, but
obviously as you get older youstart to realise that sort of
thing, learn exactly what it was.
It kind of seemed like a, justa normal, I don't know church
when I was younger.
But as I got into early teens,started realizing how
(02:30):
controlling it was.
And then I think I also startedto not I don't know if it was
exactly the cult, but like Ididn't really have a lot of
faith in any religion, I sort ofcame to that decision and then
I learned the real harsh truthsof it by, like, when you stop
(02:53):
going, your whole family likedon't talk to you anymore,
completely kick you out.
Um yeah, it was uh kind ofinteresting so you were born
into the cult.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Your parents were already a part of it, yeah, and
they're still a part of it?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yes, they are.
I've only just sort of startedtalking to them again the last
few years, since I've had kidsand whatnot.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Okay, cool, We'll definitely get into more of that
, but I do want to kind of hearabout your experiences
throughout your childhood andearly teen years, whilst you
were still in the cult.
You know the things that youkind of saw and the things that
you had to endure.
So you said it was a religiouscult, so it was Christ-based.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yes yeah.
They were very much into thatyou had to be baptized, but not
like as a baby.
Like the Catholics do you sortof have to do that.
When you're about 13, 14, iswhen they kind of expect you to
do that and allegedly receivethe Holy Spirit and speak in
(04:06):
tongues and stuff okay, it's oneof those.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
One of those calls yeah, yeah rough it was.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
It was because I never really I faked it, because
I felt pretty left out, traded,you know what I mean like I
couldn't understand why everyoneelse was and I wasn't.
But turns out everyone wasfaking it.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
From what I've heard talking to others that have left
um, so when, when growing up ina cult because it's it's very
much know all about devotingyour life to God and all of that
, there's really not much roomto have an upbringing where you
(04:51):
learn, like you know, scienceand other things that would
probably be really helpful inregards to, like, understanding
your own mental health andemotional intelligence your own
mental health and emotionalintelligence.
Did you grow up feeling anytype of mental health issues or
having any type of mental healthissues due to your surroundings
?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Yes.
So I always felt like I wasslightly different which I then
have learned out at a later ageand got diagnosed with ADHD and
autism, but they never in any ofthose mental health issues.
They didn't believe in anymedicines at all.
You weren't allowed to see amedical practitioner, you just
(05:32):
had to sort of pray about it andbe healed, which had some
interesting you know, thingslike I remember breaking my
ankle when I was a kid and Iwasn't allowed to go get a cast
or anything, I just had to sitthere and let it heal.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah right.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Like you were saying about science and stuff, yeah,
there were certain scienceclasses I couldn't take.
I wasn't allowed to do sexualed at school.
I wasn't allowed to do any ofthe religious educations, so I'd
just have to sort of sit off bymyself in the school library
whilst the other classes didwhat they had to do, which you
know can definitely make youfeel like an outcast.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, definitely.
So you went to a normal likeintegrated school.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, yeah, I went to a normal public school, but I
just wasn't allowed to sit insome of those classes.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
That would have been fucking hard, dude yeah yeah,
you would have grown up feelingreally insecure, like why am I
so different?
Speaker 1 (06:28):
and yeah, and having and already having that with the
adhd and, uh, autism and thenlike that on top and all the
outcasts sort of stuff that camewith it, like certain movies we
couldn't watch, you know, musicand books we weren't allowed to
read or watch.
They were very controlling.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, right, and what would happen if there was any
type of pushback or if you werefound to be breaking rules?
Speaker 1 (06:57):
So a lot of trouble and punishments.
When you were younger, as Isort of got into an early teen,
there was a lot of be like putout from the church so you'd
have to stay at home and not goto church for a few weeks or
whatever they deemed theirpunishment was, which now I
realise wasn't really apunishment, it was kind of a
(07:19):
holiday, a bit of a holiday.
I did play into that at about15, 16, you know I I sort of
openly admitted to doing thewrong thing to um get put out
before I built up the courage toleave anyway, just so that I
could stay at home and not go tomeetings and not get in trouble
by my parents like I was like,oh no, I was put out like well,
(07:42):
you know, what can you do?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
and did you yourself witness any type of like abuse
of power or violence towardsother members or children of
members, things like that?
Speaker 1 (07:53):
uh, yeah, there was um a bit of that and also abuse
there too.
I was uh sexually abused when Iwas a teenager there as well by
someone.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I mean I'm sorry to hear that that's fucking
horrible man.
But thank you for sharing.
Totally fine if you don't wantto kind of go into any more
detail of that.
I do understand that there fromthe research that I've done,
there was or is investigationsgoing of like pastors and things
like that who have been, whoare being investigated for
(08:26):
sexual abuse of minorsthroughout the years that the
cult has been active.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, I've seen some of that, and I know there's a
case going on at the moment withone of the guys I grew up with
that was only a couple of yearsolder than me.
That had also done a lot ofthat too.
There's a case going on in thecourts at the moment about him.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
It's really fucking angers me.
These people are put in thisposition of power and they say
that they're living through theword of God and yet they can
still commit such heinous andevil acts upon their fellow
humans.
Yes, commit such heinous andevil acts upon, you know, their
fellow humans.
Yeah, all for what?
All for what?
(09:07):
To get a golden ticket into thenext fucking life.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Which is sort of where I came to the realisation.
I was like, well, if that'swhere they're all going, I kind
of don't want to go.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, yeah, straight up.
If you're going to be in heaven, I don't fucking want to go.
Yeah, exactly right.
I in heaven, I don't fuckingwant to go.
Yeah, exactly right, I'll takemy son to the things, mate.
So you were 17, you said whenyou left the church Is that
right?
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, yeah, about 16, 17.
I finally built up the courageto leave.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
And how did that look ?
Did you go to your parentsfirst, or did you just kind of
bail out or run me through theexperience?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
So I tried to get kicked out and it kind of
backfired on me.
I went to the pastor in chargeand was like, look, this is
everything I've done, like youknow, having a girlfriend
drinking, smoking, all sorts ofstuff that wasn't allowed.
They never did any of that andI was hoping to get, like you
(10:13):
know, a big couple years ofbeing put out.
And he sort of went you candeal with it yourself and come
back when you're ready and I waslike, oh damn, that didn't kind
of work.
So then I went to my parents.
It took a while.
It was a pretty hard thing tobuild up the courage to do
because, like everyone thatyou've grown up with like just
(10:34):
excommunicates you, like itcompletely wipes you out.
And you know, the Geelong whereI grew up like it's not that
big of a town considering therewas, I think there's about 800
members of the church.
So I mean you couldn't walkthrough town without seeing a
few of them.
And knowing that, you know I'mgonna lose all my friends there,
(10:55):
everyone I'd grown up with myparents.
So it took a bit but I finallyjust uh, had had enough and had
it had enough, I'd been living adouble life at that point, like
playing along at church andpretending I was that person,
but also then going off withschoolmates and other things and
living a semi-normal life.
(11:16):
And, yeah, I just built up thecourage at about 16, 17 and was
just like I'm done with this andtold my parents I didn't want
to go anymore.
I didn't believe in God.
Done with this and told myparents I didn't want to go
anymore, I didn't believe in God, um, and they were basically
like they tried to, you know,talk me into staying.
But they were basically likeall right, if that's your
decision, there's the door.
Nice, knowing you.
Um, I had to move out and, um,get a job and pay for my last
(11:44):
year of school.
I was going to school and slepton a mate's couch and then
slowly built up a normal lifefrom there it's a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
It's a lot to uh protest a process for a 16 17
year old mate yeah, yeah, thatis.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
You know I I didn't process it the right way.
A lot of it, you know I gotinto some mischief and a couple
of addictions and those sorts ofthings.
But yeah, I guess I've come outthe other side pretty good, I
think.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
So I think we've known each other, I'd say for
the better part of a decade.
We met through mutual friends,yes, at some parties and whatnot
, where we were both up to somemischief.
And I just it was funny becauseI only found out, like maybe
what?
Two, three months ago?
You divulged to me that you hadan upbringing in a cult.
(12:36):
I would have never knownotherwise.
I was just always like thatLockie's just a bloody lovely
bloke.
He's got a good head on hisshoulders, he's approachable,
he'ske, he's got a good head onhis shoulders, he's approachable
, he's friendly, he'skind-hearted.
You know, like all of these,you know lovely, touchy-feely
things and then you know to findout you've had a pretty fucking
hard slog.
You know Not that people whohave had hard slogs
(13:00):
intrinsically are shit people ornot kind in any way,
intrinsically a shit people ornot kind in any way.
But I think it's a testament tothe hard work that you've put
into yourself.
After the fact of leaving thecult, yeah, definitely, you've
come out on the other side likeyou.
Just you're a fucking good dude.
So the um, so after you've,after you've left the cult,
(13:21):
you've, you've moved out of'house, you said you've gotten a
job paid for your last year ofschool.
You're just couch surfing onmates' couches, is that right?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Yeah, pretty much, until a few of us got a house
together.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Beautiful.
So you've been in share housesessentially since you were like
17?
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, pretty much.
Unless other than being inlong-term relationships?
Yeah, pretty much.
Unless other than being inlong-term relationships.
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, so you're now 36.
We're the same age.
So, essentially, 20-ish yearsafter life in a cult, run me
through those years from lifeafter cult, the beginning of
your life after the cult, to nowI don't remember the first few
(14:10):
years after it, honestly that'stotally fair.
I reckon there would have beena little bit of numbing of the
senses.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, yeah, definitely Absolutely.
And then, um, I don't know,just um working and, you know,
living life I moved.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Have you had many?
Have you had many differentcareers or have you kind of
stuck to the same industries orConstruction and civil mostly,
but I have had a lot ofdifferent jobs.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
but I think some of that plays into the ADHD and you
know, either getting bored orlosing interest, yeah.
Yeah definitely yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
So you've got three kids.
You said that your stepson,which we will just say is your
son, yeah 13.
And how old were your other two?
Sorry, five and seven.
Five and seven, okay.
So tell me about eight yearsago, when you first found out
(15:18):
that you were going to become afather.
Walk me through, uh, the waysin which your mental health and
your upbringing played a part inyour mind frame throughout that
time at the start.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I was kind of excited at first.
When I first found out I waslike, oh, this is a bit of a
shock, but all right.
Then I think I started gettingI read I didn't want you know it
(15:54):
really, want you know it really.
Uh, dawned on me like I didn'twant to have any of my
upbringing stuff put through onthem.
You know, I did get um a bitdepressed after we had a miles
um about just dealing with itall and the um, the stress of
not turning out like my parentsand that so it was just, it was
(16:17):
um, it's kind of like a fear offailure yes, yeah, yeah,
definitely.
Yeah, you know trying to uhbreak the cycles but, like you
know, uh out of like in yourhead you've sort of got how you
were brought up and how you wereparented as a kid and then
(16:38):
you're trying to like I know Iwas trying to fight a lot of
that and how they parented anddo it my own way, which was very
daunting.
Yeah, it took a lot to get usedto, but I think I've finally
sort of got the hang of it it's,um, it's.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
It's incredibly hard work when you yourself were
raised without the greatest ofrole models or the most
supportive of people in yourlife.
You're essentially writing abrand new book on parenting and
you have to write every pageevery day, and sometimes you
have to go back and scribbleshit out and rewrite whole
chapters, and it's just thisever-changing landscape of just
(17:18):
absolute fuckery.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
It really is, hey.
And like you catch yourself allthe time like going to say or
do something and you're like, ohwait, no, like that's not.
You know, that was just sort ofbred into me, but you know,
like that's what.
I was used to growing up andthen I don't want to be like
(17:41):
that.
So you've got to sort of catchyourself in the moment and stop.
Yeah, a lot of like takingmyself for a couple of minutes.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, I still do it as well, yeah yeah.
I still do it as well.
No one's perfect, but it's also.
It's really great that we'reable to be mindful enough to
kind of once we've, once thewords are out, there's no going
back.
But it's what you do in theaftermath.
It's like I shouldn't have saidthat.
I said that without thinking.
That's not what I actuallythink, that's not what I
(18:10):
actually feel.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Let me try that again and roll it back and I think
one of the big differences isI've had a lot of those
conversations with the kids andI've had a lot of conversations
where I'm like even just havingconversations because I don't,
my parents didn't really talkabout a lot like a lot of
emotion, a lot of anything like.
(18:32):
It was just, you know, hard andfast, this is how is.
But I know I've definitely hada lot of those conversations
with the kids and, you know,admitted, when I've, you know,
had a slip up or I shouldn'thave, you know, done this or
that or said this or whatever,yeah, definitely it's sad.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
It's sad to hear so many stories about people's you
know, especially people our ageand their parents just not being
emotionally available in anyway, shape or form.
And if you were to ask for themto be emotionally available, it
was turned down quite oftenwith with um, with argument or
(19:17):
violence.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
So if you were to approach your parents back then
to try to speak about emotionsor anything like that, were they
very just like dismissive.
Yeah, you know, go pray to God,you'll be okay, kind of.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah, definitely like that and didn't really talk
about a lot of stuff.
To be honest, it was, I realizeda few years ago it was mostly
like a lot of small talk aroundthe house.
There wasn't anything of depthand definitely no real emotions,
which I've had big, longconversations with my sister now
she left a few years ago.
(19:55):
We didn't really get alonggrowing up but I'm so glad of.
We've had some like made up andhad some like we've really got
along now we're really close andhad some big long conversations
about growing up and everythingwe went through like I know,
when I was running a muck andthen leaving she was copying a
lot of shit at home now we'retaking it out on her and that
(20:19):
sort of thing.
But we've had some, yeah, realbig conversations about how
there wasn't much emotion in thehouse and she was like I
remember she was telling me theother week about like she got in
trouble one day, like she gotsmacked because she was crying
and emotional and she was likesmacked and told not to cry,
which is, you know, a lot for ayoung teen to uh you know it's a
(20:45):
lot for anyone.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
It's a lot for anyone , mate yeah yeah, imagine
imagine as a 36 year old beingpunched in the face for crying
and saying that you're upset.
Could you imagine what youwould do now that you've had all
this lived experience?
Imagine someone being like stopfucking crying and hitting you.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, which is only going to make you cry.
More like realistically.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yeah, you're not wrong.
It's like way to go.
Mum and dad make it about youand not me.
So you said your sister left afew years ago.
Yeah, did she reach out to you?
I'm guessing that you and herhad zero contact after you left.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
How long between you leaving and her contacting you
or you guys getting in contactwith each other?
Speaker 1 (21:40):
we'd said like little things, like you know, happy
birthday and whatever,throughout the years I guess,
but um, it was.
I left at 17, it's probably agood 10 or more years before we
really started talking.
There were some little bits,but then it was about five years
ago.
I think she finally left fouryears ago and um, that's, I
(22:01):
think it was when I firstactually was, when I first
started having kids.
That would have been about umseven years ago, when we had
miles.
That's when she sort of camearound and started talking to me
again too and was likecongratulations and stuff and
that sort of kicked it off, um,and then she said she wasn't,
you know, gonna go anymore andleft and um, uh, yeah, we've um.
(22:27):
And then I think she came up tosee me and that's when it
really started.
Like she came up to see me oncewe had miles and um, uh, yeah,
just sort of made up and startedcatching up from there.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
And is she your older sister or younger sister,
younger, younger, younger?
Okay, so did you.
After you learned that she hadleft the church, did you feel
like you needed to take on likea support role for her and guide
her through life post-cult?
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yes, yeah, I definitely did.
She didn't have a lot ofcontact with other people that
had left.
She was sort of doing her ownthing.
I guess that was kind of a goodthing in leaving, was that
other people that had beenthrough?
It and left that you'd knownfrom previously, obviously would
reach out and be like you know.
(23:21):
Are you okay?
Do you need anything?
so I knew I had to like sort ofsupport her and help her with
what I could.
She was doing pretty well andfocusing on her career and stuff
like that at the time, so shewas pretty good, but I was, yeah
, I reached out to her and, um,made sure she was okay and said
I'm always here and this is whatyou to expect, and you know,
(23:43):
these are some of the thingsyou're going to go through?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
yeah, definitely now.
You did mention before that youhave had some contact with your
parents in the last couple ofyears yeah that I think that
having kids sort of softenedthem up a bit.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
It's they're great with the kids.
We are still on sort of youknow, it's uh, still slightly
awkward and there's it's still alot of small talk.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I still don't have huge conversations with them,
but they've been great with thekids okay, so they so they they
actively are a part of yourkids' lives and your life to an
extent now, and they're still apart of the church.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yes, which is wild.
But they became a lot morelenient and I think they just
realised they were going to missout on the grandkids' lives.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Did you have trouble rectifying any sort of emotions
within yourself in allowing themto have a relationship with
your kids?
Speaker 1 (24:47):
A little bit, and I still do, but I'm just glad that
they're there for the kids.
I did also have a lot oftrouble with the fact that
they're better grandparents thanparents.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
It's always the case, I think.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, that really brought up some shit, yeah, but
no, they really are, are they'vereally been great.
And I remember when they firstso they first came up to
queensland when we had miles um,and one of the biggest shocks,
I think, for me was, um, theyrocked up at the house and dad's
(25:20):
like sat down on the couch andheld baby miles.
But mum realized straight away,or knew straight away, that you
know, jayden would be feelingleft out, being the bigger kid,
so like as soon as they walkedin the door I remember her
running off and like taking himand playing cars on the floor
with him and making sure he'snever felt left out or anything
(25:41):
like that.
So, yeah, they really sort ofpulled together for the For the
grandkids.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
yeah, Well, I mean, that is nice.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It pisses me off for you.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Oh, yeah, yeah, but sorry, I'm getting through it
and going to therapy.
It is what it is.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah, so you're actively intherapy.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, okay, and how long have you been doing that?
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Three years ago, I think I realised two years ago.
It was when I worked out that Ihad, or started assuming that I
had, the ADHD and I went andgot the diagnosis for that and
found out it was ADHD and autismand then I started getting
therapy along the lines of thatand just trying to work
everything else out as well.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, ripper, so you do actively go, like on a
frequent basis, to therapy.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
It's.
I've been going out.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
It's every third week , I think I go and see a
therapist Beautiful.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
And do you feel like, from prior to beginning therapy
to now, do you feel like you'vecome a long way as far as your
own mental health and your ownunderstanding of yourself goes?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, I do it's still still.
You know, I don't think it'sever something that's gonna be
completely worked out or easy.
You know, there's definitelyweeks where you go in and go
through some stuff and thenyou're like you're a fucking
mess for the next week.
But yeah, no, I definitely, I'mdefinitely doing a lot better
(27:20):
after sort of sorting all thatout and starting to go to
therapy yeah, yeah, good, I'mglad to hear it.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
It's, um, it's.
It's quite odd because, as Isaid, we've been friends for
about a part of a decade, um,but with you being in queensland
and me being in victoria, wehaven't had a lot of kind of
face-to-face hangs.
You know, there's been a coupleof times where you've randomly
rocked up at the house, beinglike I'm from Victoria or like
(27:49):
parties and whatnot.
But I do have to tip my hat andcommend you because I have
definitely seen and noticed alot of personal growth just
based off like social media, andto see you in your current life
, thriving and happy and healthy, warms my heart, you too dude
(28:11):
you too.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Honestly, I've seen a huge growth in you, and
starting this was a big thingtoo and it was a big uh help for
me as well, I think.
Just, I think the whole um,mental health thing and how it's
being talked about and workedout a lot more now and a lot
more open is, uh, a huge thing,because it was definitely,
(28:33):
definitely not talked about oryou know this openly when we
were growing up, god no.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And look, we've still got a lot of a a lot of work to
do and a lot of change to getthrough, but I'm pretty chuffed
that I get to be kind of a partof it.
I remember talking to youbefore I launched the podcast
about it and about what I waswanting to do and how I was
wanting to do it.
And then we didn't talk for awhile and I'd started releasing
(29:01):
episodes and then I think youmessaged me being like I've been
listening to every episode andI just felt so fucking grateful,
you know I was so proud of youfor starting it.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
You know, I think we've both grown a lot since we
met, but from who we were whenwe met at parties um a long time
ago to now is a huge growth anda big growth.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, yeah, mate, we're not the dirty little
gremlins anymore.
Well, maybe not to the sameextent.
No very good.
So run me through what life iscurrently like for you.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I do understand that you have yourself a lovely
partner I do, I do a lovelypartner, I, I do, I do.
So, yeah, I've got a lovelypartner, um, who has been a huge
help as well and is extremelyum open and supportive in that
mental health uh uh field uhworking um constantly and
(30:08):
co-parenting that's a a fun newchallenge.
That's also taken some you knowgetting used to and I have to
go like that's a subject attherapy a bit as well, trying
not to bring my emotions intothe co-parenting.
You know what I mean.
Like you leave all that aboutand just do it for the kids yeah
(30:30):
, being cordial and whatnot yeah, which is like it isn't that
hard.
We're not, like you know, supernasty to each other or anything
like that, but there are.
You know.
There are moments where stuffcomes up and you have to sort of
block your emotions out andjust get through it yeah, so you
, you were with you, with yourkid's mum for quite a while.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
It was only maybe what.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Like two, three years ago, you guys separated uh,
yeah, so I was with her for 11,12 years and then about two
years ago we separated too, anda bit, I think Right about the
time I was going through thediscovering ADHD and that side
(31:13):
of it we both coincided.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Did one have anything to do with the other, or was it
just about the same time?
Speaker 1 (31:22):
No, it didn't really.
I it's funny.
I actually I realized due tosome memes actually, um, about
the adh, yeah, yeah, I I read ameme one day and I was like damn
, that's like that hits so hard.
And then I went to the page,basically went through the
(31:44):
entire page and was like everyone of these is like so close to
home, it's not funny.
And then I remember gettingonto YouTube.
I like started looking up somestuff and I got onto YouTube and
this uh lady on there that umtalks about adhd stuff.
I watched about four of hervideos and was just a blubbering
(32:04):
fucking mess and had never feltso understood before.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
So I got straight on, yeah, getting into a diagnosis.
It's funny because that'salmost the same way I started my
journey, like it was kind of itwas partly my son going through
his diagnosis for autism and mywife and I being, like you guys
are a little bit similar, but Iwas.
(32:29):
But I was also like there's noway I have fucking autism.
I'd know by now, like because Ihad a very, very limited
understanding of autism and justhow much of a fucking spectrum
it really is.
You know, yeah, but it wasTikTok.
There's an Australian TikTokernamed Kobe Watts and he posts
ADHD like funny clips andwhatnot.
(32:51):
Yeah, yeah.
I think George tagged me in oneof them and I saw it and I was
like holy shit, that is me.
And yeah, like not long after Iwas like, yeah, I got the ADHD
diagnosis.
And then then as everyone onhere knows, because I fucking
talk about it constantly notlong after that, was the autism
diagnosis yeah, it's uh, it's anincredible tool, social media,
(33:17):
in finding communities.
Yeah, and it pisses me off thatthere's a lot of people that are
turning their noses up at itand saying that being diagnosed
adhd and autistic or vice versais uh, is a fucking trend it's
it's not a trend.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
It's just that everyone now understands that
we're not alone that's exactlyit, and I remember seeing a post
one day about someone.
Someone had put a post upsaying, like you know, it never
used to be around and now it's atrend that everyone's jumping
on but it, I think it wasn'tlong after that I saw another
one that basically rebuttaledthat.
Where they were, like it hasbeen around forever.
(33:58):
Like your grandma having nofilter and saying stuff all the
time and you know you couldn'ttouch her stuff in her house, it
had to be a certain way.
And your grandpa, like having amodel train set and playing
with that for 30 hours a fuckingday, like yeah, it's always
been around, they just didn'tknow, or didn't you know?
Speaker 2 (34:17):
yeah, exactly right.
I um, I saw that was similar.
It was just like autism neverused to be a thing.
But you go to your family'shouse for a Friday dinner and
your dad tells you to get out ofthe same chair that he's been
sitting in for fucking 40 years.
And they have the same dinnerevery Friday night and he
watches his shows at the sametime and goes to bed at the same
time.
(34:38):
Yeah, 100%, 100% yeah yeah,been wearing the same slippers
for 30 years, yeah it's funny.
It's, it's autism now, but backthen it's just, he's just
particular.
Yes, yeah, just set, set in hisways.
That makes me laugh.
And, um, I mean looking backand I hope my father never
(35:01):
listens to this episode becauseI feel like he would be
mortified.
But the more I have lookedthrough the autistic lens of
life since my diagnosis, themore I kind of think, fuck, my
parents were definitely on thespectrum sister and I have had
(35:27):
big conversations about that.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I see a lot of um, adhd stuff in dad um, and it's
funny I'm in a group chat onFacebook with all their family,
like dad's family and stuff.
That side of the family.
A lot of them are in Englandand the UK and stuff, but they
had they're always like, oh,we're a quirky family.
And then a couple of weeks agoone of my cousins put in there
like all right, we always sayquirky, but you know, my son's
(35:48):
being diagnosed.
I've been diagnosed.
Like who's actually haddiagnoses and what are they?
And a whole bunch of the familyposted and they're all sort of
starting to get diagnosed withstuff at the moment and it runs
rampant through that side of thefamily.
But, um, my sister and I've hadbeen having big chats and my mom
is hard on the spectrum, likehard out on the spectrum.
(36:11):
Um, I remember like we weretalking about it and bringing up
stuff that you know we'dthought of or seen.
That fit into that and therewas always this running joke we
went and stayed at a holidayhouse years ago when we were
kids.
Under the fireplace they had astack of newspapers to like be
able to like start the fire withand they were all messy and mum
(36:35):
pulled them all out and fuckingput them all back in like super
neat and that was her favouriteday of the fucking holiday and
we always had the running.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
You put them in chronological order and then,
yeah, now you look back at itwith this and you're like, oh
okay, all right, I get where shewas going on that, yeah yeah,
my mom used to um habituallyclean my bedroom, and I always,
growing up, I always assumed itwas just to search my room for
drugs and alcohol and all thatsort of shit.
But yeah, I definitely thinkback now, and she always put
(37:06):
everything in the places thatshe wanted them to be put.
Yes, everything was curatedperfectly.
Yes, and then every six months,I could set my watch to it.
Every six months, she wouldrearrange my room, rearrange the
house, and that's just how shewas.
My room rearranged the house,and that's just how she was.
You know, also had a gamblingaddiction, which is pretty
(37:26):
rampant for someone that may ormay not have been on the
spectrum, or ADHD, impulsecontrol issues, addiction issues
, you know.
Yeah, it makes me sad a littlebit, because I wish that we
could go back in time and havethese resources available for
people from other generations.
Not only that, though, but theywould have to be open to such
(37:47):
things.
You couldn't go back too far,because if we had these
resources available, then halfthe population would end up with
a fucking lobotomy.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah, you're not wrong.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
And that's like the open things.
Another thing, like I knowdefinitely with the church cult,
I remember multiple talksactually from the platform that,
like ADHD didn't exist and theywere just disobedient and
needed to be punished andsmacked more.
So I think that was a big thingthat played into like it not
(38:21):
getting recognised or picked upin me as a kid.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah, it's funny.
You kind of look back todifferent kind of scenarios, or
what was that saying?
Idle hands are the devil's work, or something like that.
Idle hands are the devil'splayground, something like that.
I'm just going to fact checkmyself Idle hands are the
devil's playthings?
Yeah, workshop, fuck them,something like that.
(38:47):
It's just ADHD.
It's not the devil, absolutely.
I just fidget a lot because Ilack a lot of dopamine.
Yeah, so we'll get back ontotrack, because that was a
massive, massive falling off thetrack, but anyway.
Yeah, that was a massive,massive falling off the track,
but anyway, yeah.
So current life I also want todiscuss your life as a
(39:09):
incredibly talented graffitiartist, which is also another
reason why we are going to bleepout your name and keep your
face off social media.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
So tell me a little bit about how that all started.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
As a kid I was obsessed, but obviously it was
heavily frowned upon.
I mean it still is in most ofsociety.
I just I don't know what it was.
It was the rawness and thecolours and craziness of it all.
(39:47):
I just was obsessed with mostlyyour big pieces too, not all
this little teenager tagging apersonal property fence or
anything like that, but justabsolutely smitten by it, never
really pursued it very hard as akid or a teen, because I think
also as a teen I sort of had alook into it and a lot of the
(40:10):
people I met were pretty shadycharacters, because it can draw
some of those sort of people.
But a fair few years ago wemoved back to Melbourne from
Queensland for a little bit andI was working in melbourne and
in the laneways all the timedelivering stuff in trucks and I
just it just kicked off againand that love for it came back
(40:32):
um and I started drawing andsketching at home, bits and
pieces.
Then we had the lockdowns and Ihad nothing to do but sit at
home and draw and sketch.
And I met.
I went to the paint shop topick up some stuff and just
paint a board at home and metthe guy that owned the paint
shop and was having a big chat.
I think I was like meant to goin there for like 10 minutes and
(40:54):
pick up some paint and I wasthere for like three hours.
We talked for quite some timeafter that like online and
whatever, and he took me out todo some stuff and meet a few of
the boys up here and it justtook off and it snowballed and
in the last three years I'vejust, yeah, gone crazy with it.
(41:16):
It's probably like it's a goodsource of dopamine and all that
sort of thing, but it's probablythe least harmful addiction I
could have or have had.
I guess you could say but yeah,it's just a lot of fun and I
just love creating stuff.
I love drawing constantly, Ilove coming up with stuff going
(41:37):
out.
There's a few big legal wallsup here, so we'll go and have
out.
There's a few big legal wallsup here so we'll go and have.
Or there's a couple that aren'texactly legal but like no one
really cares that.
It's the back of factories outin the middle of nowhere.
The blind eye, yeah yeah, yeahyeah, they don't.
As long as you're there and youdon't leave your rubbish and
don't cause them, you know,break their windows or do
anything stupid, they don't sortof care.
(41:59):
We just go out there andthere'll be like five, six,
seven dudes, ten dudes, andwe'll have big barbecues and
just paint all day and do stufflike that bit of a bit of a
family that you never, never had, hey, yeah definitely,
definitely and it's just, it'staken off.
I've done stuff I never thoughtI would like with it.
(42:22):
I've painted a couple of matesvans that like made camper vans
and toured around australia.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Come up with logos for a couple shops you did an
amazing sketch for my podcast,which I still to this day, um
you know, have saved on my phoneand my computer.
I fucking love it it.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
I felt so special.
Yeah, I loved doing that.
That was good fun.
Yeah, yeah, I was justlistening to you one day and I
was just fucking doodling andthen I was like, no, I'm going
to do this.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah, no, I loved it.
Man, I lit up so hard when yousent that through, like I like
ran into the bedroom whereGeorge was.
I was like babe, look, look,look look.
She was like she's always verykind of.
She doesn't show a lot ofemotion on the outside, she's
emotional to her core, but shedoesn't show a lot of emotion on
(43:12):
the outside, but she goesunless he's cottons.
He's a fucking wholesome guy.
That's what she said.
So have you personally ever hadany um run-ins with the law
whilst out painting?
Speaker 1 (43:28):
or anything yeah, yeah, none where I've been in
like court but yeah, definitely,but had had to leg it a few
times yes, yeah, and I had onethe other week where I got my
first train and I know thatmight be frowned upon by some
(43:48):
people, but I had to tick it offthe list and there was a lot of
security and whatnot there andwe had a big chase after that
but managed to get away.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Is that a part of the thrill, yes, or is that a part
that you don't like?
The chase.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
No, it can be daunting, but a lot of stress
and you're very, you know, sortof freaked out and whatever it's
the, there's a huge the rewardis worth the risk.
(44:27):
Yeah, there's a huge boost onceyou're gone and you got away and
you're home safe and likeyou've made it and all, like you
know a few of us on that oneand we're all like, once we'd
gotten away and sort of run off,we were like we did it, like we
did it, we got it.
It was a good one.
Like you know, yeah, there's abig adrenaline boost.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
The massive kind of two sides of graffiti and the
debate that happens is whetherit's art or not, and because of
the tagging culture versus thegraffiti like big pieces,
culture gets lumped all into theone category by people that
aren't a part of that culture.
(45:09):
I, for one, absolutely hatetagging.
I think it's gross and ugly andjust shit and it's just.
There's no artistic talent toit.
But graffitiing like big piecesand the artistic side of that I
think is really amazing and Iabsolutely love it.
Melbourne has some of the bestgraffiti in the world and I love
(45:32):
seeing, you know, beautifullydone graffiti on trains, but
it's the tagging on the insideof the trains that I fucking
hate.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
I'm not about that either yeah, so how, if, if you
were able to rewrite it and have, uh, you know the world
according to to Lockie, how doyou separate those things and
how do you kind of figure out atreaty with the police and
(46:02):
things like that?
You did mention that there aresome legal walls in Queensland.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Do you think there are?
There are, there's usually likeat least one in every town.
It is funny, everyone hates itwhen it's happening and it's
illegal.
But then a lot of artists havebecome quite popular and gotten
legal and get paid to do bigmurals and all that sort of
(46:27):
stuff and then it's celebratedand kind of romanticized about
when they were doing itillegally but at the time it's
like frowned upon and everyonehates it.
It's a very I don't know, it's avery odd thing to me.
I personally think the policehave a lot better things to
worry about than some dudespainting a fucking boring gray
(46:49):
wall on the highway a colorfulcolor, or you.
You know, the side of the trainlines is usually another one.
Like they're just boring graywalls, we're putting some color
on it, we're not hurting anyone.
You know I I get kind of firedup about that because there's
like what I think I read theother day there's like 4 000
(47:09):
plus untested rape kits sittingin the police stations in
queensland but they're fuckingchaining, chasing down a dude
that put some color on a wall.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Like yeah, I think they have bigger and better
things to worry about than thatbut yeah, it's like something
like something like what 12 12women have been murdered by
their partners in australia inthe last like three or four
months and they're chasingpeople just doing some fucking
art.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Yeah, and a lot of it is art.
A lot of it is art and you knowthey're really getting some
frustration out.
Maybe they're dealing with someof their you know shit that's
going on in their own lives.
Yeah, it's like illegal, butyou know they're going to put a
pretty picture on the side of ahighway or make your commute
(47:59):
brighter and, like you know,they're not really hurting
anyone.
They're not out dealing drugsor breaking into places or doing
other things that they could oryou know do at the time
smashing stuff up, that sort ofthing.
So I feel like it's prettyharmless for the most part and,
um, yeah, there's so much biggerthings to fucking worry about
(48:23):
yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
unfortunately, though , it generally comes down to the
uh, the shitty few who have toruin it for the others, right to
the shitty few who have to ruinit for the others, right yeah,
the ones that are out theredoing pieces that are offensive
or not needed to be put on awall, and then also probably
dealing drugs along with doingthat.
There is a bit of that All ofthat stuff.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
you know, it's definitely taken me some time to
weed out Like I'm veryselective about who I will hang
out with and who I willassociate with and who I uh want
to paint with and that sort ofthing.
There are obviously some prettylow-life characters that get
drawn to it, because it is kindof the uh underworld yeah scene
(49:09):
always happens with any any typeof counterculture.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
You always have that kind of scourge.
How do you, how do you solvethat?
Do you, do you think it wouldserve well to have some sort of
licensing process where youwould undergo like a police
check to obtain, like a graffitilicense?
Speaker 1 (49:38):
obtain like a graffiti license?
I'm not sure, yeah, and I alsothink kind of you know, maybe a
little bit of the draw is it's,you know, it is slightly illegal
, or it is, it's part of thepart of the thing.
It's not mainstream is what Ishould say actually, um, yeah,
yeah and that, but I don't know.
I don't know how they fix it, Ijust maybe.
I definitely think there shouldbe more legal walls and it
should be more encouraged.
(49:59):
There was a big one put in inBrisbane a little while ago.
It's a big waterway drain justnear the city with a big walking
path next to it.
It's been there forever andthey finally made it like.
It used to get painted all thetime anyway, but they finally
made it legal, which is great.
And you'll see you know somekids down there that are fucking
12 having a crack at it, andyou'll see dudes that are like
(50:21):
literally paid to paint otherplaces down there, like trying
out some new stuff.
So I definitely think thereshould be more of that, yeah,
and there should be more of thatand more you know spots that
are legal and you might, youknow, you might discourage it
from being them doing it in thewrong spots and that sort of
thing.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
Yeah, yeah.
I think that would be a goodstart to have more legal wars,
like I'm glad that there arealready legal wars happening.
Definitely needs to be more,though.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
There used to be a lot and then they sort of closed
them all down.
But there's still at least onein every town, I think, from the
best of my knowledge.
But, um, they definitely needto bring them back and do it
again.
Speaker 2 (50:58):
Bring up more.
Yeah, sweet.
Well, mate, I reckon that's uh,that's our time.
Thank you so much for sharingyour journey with me.
It's, um, not only will I, notonly do, I think the listeners
will enjoy hearing about yourjourney, but I really enjoyed
being able to get to know you ona more personal level after
(51:21):
many years of friendship.
Before we end it, is thereanything that you would like to
throw out into the world?
Any?
Speaker 1 (51:28):
thoughts for the listeners.
I'm not off the top of my head,just keep putting out
everything that you're doing andputting out all those companies
that you talk about, like Pandaand all that sort of stuff.
Those things need to be morerecognised and more out there in
people's knowledge.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
Ripper.
Well, thanks very much, brother.
You have a great day.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
You too mate.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Cheers bye.
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