New Dad Chronicles | Mike’s Journey from Sports Journalism to Breaking Generational Cycles in Fatherhood - Touched Out! A Mental Health Podcast for Parents

Episode Transcript
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Carter (00:01):
We would like to acknowledge the traditional
custodians of this land.
We pay our respects to theElders past, present and
emerging, for they hold thememories, the traditions and the
culture of the Aboriginal andTorres Strait Islander people
across the nation.
Warning this podcast containsexplicit language and discusses

(00:22):
sensitive topics related tomental health childhood trauma,
birth trauma, abuse, miscarriageand suicide.
Listener discretion is advised.
If you find these subjectsdistressing or triggering, we
recommend taking caution andconsidering whether to proceed
with listening.
If you or someone you know isstruggling, please reach out to
a mental health professional ora trusted individual for support

(00:43):
.
Your well-being is our priority.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Touched Out podcast.
Today we have Mike, a32-year-old from Massachusetts.
Mike shares his journey frompregnancy to birth and the first
six months of fatherhood.
He talks about his experienceas a new father, the challenges
his wife faced during pregnancyand the overwhelming nature of
the early days.

(01:04):
Mark reflects on his initialstruggles in finding his role as
a father and the guilt he feltfor not being more present.
Mark has since found his rhythmand is fully committed to being
a good father.
The conversation also toucheson the importance of alone time
as a new family and thedisruption caused by
well-intentioned family membersstaying over.
Mark discusses how hispriorities shifted as he got

(01:24):
older and how he made thedecision to prioritise his
personal life over his dream jobin sports.

Mike (01:30):
Take some time, it's all right, you'll be fine.

(01:51):
The Touched Alpha Cast.
Take all night, you'll be fine,it's alright.
The Touchdown Podcast.

Carter (02:10):
Okay, so today we've got Michael, 32, from Massachusetts
.
Michael's married with one baby, six months old, baby Claire.
Welcome to the podcast, michael, thanks for joining me.

Mike (02:20):
Thanks for having me, Carter.

Carter (02:22):
Sweet, why don't you tell me a little bit about
yourself, a little bit aboutyour family and your history?

Mike (02:26):
Well, I was born May 12th 1991.
My parents' name?
I'll cut to the chase there.
All the dad jokes are strongwith me.
Yeah, I'm from Massachusetts mywhole life.
I was born May 12th 1991, onMother's Day.
My mother always likes to tellme born may 12th 91, on mother's

(02:47):
day.
My mother always likes to tellme, yeah, grew up a pretty, you
know, middle class ish life,some years better than others,
growing up, but never reallywanting for much.
My folks divorced when I wasfive, which is for the better.
That as, especially as I'vegotten older, I've realized that
the two of them being marriedwas just not.
They just weren't right foreach other.
But my stepfather is awesome.
So he's in my life, he's great.

(03:07):
You know I still communicatewith all three of my parents.
But yeah, you know, I'm surewe'll talk about my work,
history and parenting in a bit.
But I'm from Massachusetts.
My whole life has been in andaround New England.
I've traveled outside of NewEngland but in an overarching
sense everything has been NewEngland.
I do love it up here, and now Ihave my little one who

(03:28):
currently has a bottle of babyformula in her mouth in my left
arm.

Carter (03:32):
Awesome, and baby Claire is six months old.

Mike (03:35):
Yep, six months old this week.
She is a delight.
She has the grip strength of aweightlifter and I have a lot of
chest hair for her to yank at,and it is not pleasant when she
does oh yeah, god, they good atgrabbing hold of hair.

Carter (03:50):
My mustache has copped a beating over the last four
years from three differentchildren.

Mike (03:54):
Yeah, my yeah no, my, my beard just had a.
Just had an incident aboutthree hours ago where she just
latched onto it like a leech.
I was like I'm not getting off,you hurt me.
Yeah, that's okay, I love you,they love hair.

Carter (04:11):
My littlest one, salem, at the moment.
She's just started crawlinglast month, so she is very, very
much about just assaulting herolder two siblings at the moment
.

Mike (04:29):
She'll crawl up to them and climb up on their back and
just yank at their hair becauseboth of them have long hair.

Carter (04:32):
Yeah, I'm sure a lot of tears at the moment on account
of my littlest one.
She's an absolute terror.
Well, I mean, it is fun in away.
It is.
It's cool to see them interact,even though she's just just
absolutely torturing them andthey're and they're both.
They're both at the age wherethey can be like go away, salem,
we don't want to play with you,because they're just dirty on
her all the time yeah, well, Iget all this one's strength and

(04:53):
fury, although there isn't muchfury, but there is a lot of
strength so tell me a little bitabout your journey from from
pregnancy to birth to now, atsix months old well, I can only
speak of pregnancy secondhand.

Mike (05:06):
I cannot speak in the primary experience.
But my wife and I we gotmarried november of 2020, which
was a very interesting time toget married.
But we went there, we had alovely wedding and yes, yes,
I'll give you more milk, I know.
And so we were living at thetime in a suburb of Boston.
It was about we were about a 10minute drive from downtown, and

(05:29):
now we live out in Worcester,which is an hour west of Boston,
but the second biggest city inthe state.
It's about 200,000 people, so asizable community out here.
We moved out here for her jobshe works in hospitals.
She transferred to a differenthospital out here and we got our
house.
We got our dog, who I'm sureyou'll hear barking soon enough,

(05:50):
and then after that, you know,we had the house, we had the dog
.
Well, we wanted the kid.
My wife more than me, not that Ididn't want to be a parent, it
was just I.
I would always say to her itit's okay, clyde, it's okay,
don't eat your bit, don't eatyour bit.
Oh, here's to you.
I would always say to her I'dbe very content having zero to

(06:11):
two children, and that wasn't acoy way of saying I just want
one kid.
It was I could live a very rich, fulfilling life with you and
our series of dogs throughoutour marriage and I could live a
great life.
Or I could have, you know, oneor two kids, which is now more
team one than team two for bothof us, but I'm like I could have

(06:33):
a kid and live a great life.
You know, it's just.
Whatever one of those paths youchoose, the other door closes.

Carter (06:40):
So yeah, certainly yeah, so you know.
So you weren't closed off to it, but you'd be fulfilled either
way.

Mike (06:46):
Yeah, and she said she had wanted to know.
She knew she wanted to be amother.
So she was in, like she waslike five or six years old.
So also I, you know.
We met when we were 24.
I had a lot of growing up to do.
We got married.
We did all you know.
We got married.
We had a dog.
I was like you know what?
Yeah, like I felt good.

(07:06):
I had some family issues.
I was in therapy for threeyears at a time, which helped
immensely to get my headstraight, help figure things out
, because without that I wouldnot have been ready for a kid.
I was like, yeah, let's do this.
And so at the start of 20, westarted trying to conceive.
She got pregnant in march ish,and december 29th this barrel of

(07:26):
joy got evicted from her wombvia c-section because she wasn't
going to come out, she was justhanging in there.
And so, yeah, you know, thepregnancy was interesting for
you to watch it because themedically and you know, up until
the last couple of days when mywife was showing signs of
preeclampsia, up until that justshowed up the day before Claire

(07:50):
was born.
So the entire pregnancy,medically she was perfectly fine
.
All the metrics were good.
Claire was always growing at agood rate.
My wife was healthy, her bloodpressure was good, everything
was checked off.
Am I allowed to curse on thispodcast?
Oh, yeah, go hard.
She felt like fucking shit, man.
Like she felt so bad.

(08:11):
I remember she's, you know, itwasn't morning sickness, it was
around the clock sickness.
And at one point she just saysanyone who says pregnancy's
beautiful is fucking lying.
She, she was just miserable.
We were very excited,especially as Claire was, you
know, showing signs of beinghealthy and growing and
everything, but it was just, shewas so sore, she was so tired.

(08:36):
You know it was hard to see hergoing through that, but you
know it's worth it to have thisone who we love, and she said
the same.
However, she has gone very muchfrom I want a second kid to
yeah, no, like I don't want tobe fair enough.
Her exact line was well, I'dlove claire to have a sibling, I

(08:58):
do not want to experiencepregnancy in the first three
months ago yeah yeah, totallyfair

Carter (09:05):
um I don't know where.
I don't know where the idea,this universal idea of pregnancy
and birth being a beautiful,like little miracle, came from.
I would love to try to tracethe origins and punch that
fucking person in the facebecause it's bullshit god.

Mike (09:20):
I mean I, I excuse me I reckon I picture it somehow ties
back into some form of religion, because so many religions of
so many different backgrounds.
Like you know, the womanbecoming a mother is built into
the doctrine or the teachings insome way.

(09:41):
And pregnancy is such thisbeautiful thing.
I mean, you know, the virginbirth is like one of the pillars
of you know what he hates andit's like.

Carter (09:51):
It's kind of like theory .
I think it's theory versus prac.

Mike (09:54):
You know, in theory, pregnancy and child birth is a
beautiful thing, but in practiceit's very, very far from the
truth yeah, I remember there wasone day where, because we
weren't telling our folks untilshe was at 12 or 13 weeks to
make sure there was nomiscarriages or an ectopic or
something, because she hadfriends that had miscarried and

(10:15):
had had had a terminate birthfor an ectopic pregnancy.
So we waited and her mother wasby to spend the night.
I forget why, because again sheknows she was pregnant but she
was by.
She spent the night.
I forget why, because again sheknows she was pregnant but she
was by.
She spent the night.
And my wife had the worst boutof morning sickness ever and she
was just.
She texted me she's in thedownstairs bath, she's an
upstairs.
She texts me, I'm downstairs.
She says I'm super sick, justjust entertain her.

(10:38):
It's a lot like like talking toa child, like don't think about
the noise upstairs, look at me,look at my toys, don't think.
Don't think about your daughterupstairs, and so yeah, yeah, I
remember.

Carter (10:51):
I remember my parents being over for dinner one night
and I'm not sure which pregnancyit was one of the three,
obviously, but my wife wassitting down.
I think she'd cooked like herfavourite meal for dinner and
she was really, really excited.
My wife's an absolute gun inthe kitchen Like she is such a
good cook so she'd like spentall this time making everything

(11:12):
from scratch and she'd been inthe kitchen all day.
She was so excited for thismeal.
We sit down, she has one biteand starts dry reaching and then
like bolts to the toilet andthen spends the rest of dinner
in the bathroom.
And I just remember feeling sosad for her because she was so
excited for this meal and she'dbeen craving it for days and she
wanted to impress my family.
And then, yeah, she just satthere and spewed the entire time

(11:33):
.
Oh no, we all ate without her.

Mike (11:35):
Oh, no, yeah, I mean whenever my wife would brush her
teeth and brush like the backof her tongue.
She would vomit a little bit.
So that happened for like awhole year.
Uh, so that was.
She loved that.
She enjoyed that a lot.
But yeah, I mean, you know it'slike I said, I'm holding, I'm

(11:55):
holding the little one, I'll gether on camera in a minute here
for you, but you know it's, it'sworth it.
In the end she said she's likemy god.
And then, like you see peoplethat have, you know, you see
those reality shows where peoplehave like 12 or 15 kids or
something, and she's just like Idon't get it.
I don't understand how you dothat.

Carter (12:14):
Yeah, there are some people out there that have just
the most breezy pregnancies andbirths you know like, excuse me,
my sister-in-law I think hersecond baby was born in like
within half an hour, oh wow, ofgoing into labour and it was
just a breeze for her, whereasall three of our births have
just been like over a daymarathons that just end super

(12:36):
traumatically and horribly.
And I mean, everyone says afterour first birth, I don't know
how you went back a second time,let alone a third time.
Yeah, that's what happened withus.
We knew we always wantedmultiple kids and I guarantee
you, probably in the next like12 to 18 months, both you and
your wife will start probablybeing like, oh, maybe we could

(12:57):
have another one, because youstart forgetting a little bit
about the traumatic shit thatyou went through my wife is
excellent at holding a grudgeand she will hold a grudge
against that for better or worse.

Mike (13:10):
She's great at holding a grudge, um, but yeah no she went
into the hospital.

Carter (13:14):
There's nothing wrong with being one and done yeah,
she went to the hospital.

Mike (13:18):
I think 10 am on wednesday or like 9 am on wednesday, and
this one was born at around itwas born at 4 22 pm on thursday,
so and she went in, she got aroom around new and they had
they tried to induce her.
I say try, because they had allthese methods and nothing was
working and she was in so muchpain and agony and eventually,

(13:42):
like the doctor was basicallylike so your options are because
, well, first off, claire, notonly did her did her water never
break, but claire never dropped, she was just hanging out, she
just would still be in thereright now.
And so the doctor, you know shecouldn't tell us exactly what
to do, but she was like well,you could plan for a c-section

(14:03):
now.
We keep going and do aC-section tomorrow, or we do
this really risky thing andbreak your water.
Your daughter might die, but wecan try it.
So it was stupid idea Do thething now, do the thing.
After one more day of pain.
We chose to do the thing now.
I told them at like one o'clockand 422.
This one came out nine pounds,six ounces.

(14:25):
Yeah, it was.
It was a good time.
She was a chunky girl, right,little one.
She just stares at me like why,did you stop eating me Big
chunk?

Carter (14:33):
You're a big chunk.

Mike (14:35):
But yeah, she's great.

Carter (14:36):
Awesome.
And how did you find the firstkind of couple of days, couple
of weeks of being a father andbeing a new family?

Mike (14:45):
Well, the first few days, well, she was in the hospital
for four days, so those firstcouple of days was a lot of, you
know, dealing with nurses andall sorts of medical medical
folks who were great.
We had a great team.
Everything was super easy.
And you know, I was also havingto bounce back and forth to the
house a few times a day to letour dog out and deal with her.
Luckily, you know, it was lateDecember in Massachusetts.

(15:09):
That time of year you can getblizzards.
I mean, I've had, you know, afoot of snow that time of year.
Luckily it was in the.
You know, it was like springweather, it was just like it was
raining, which kind of stunk,but the weather was fine.
So we didn't have to deal withany snow, which was nice.

(15:30):
But yeah, you know, the firstfew days, I mean I, I could have
been there more, like I wasback here with the dog.
I even spent a few nights hereat the house and I went back in
the morning.
Not my, not certainly not mybest moment, in fact one of my
worst moments.
Uh, not just being like gosleep six hours at the hospital,
then come back and deal withthe dog would have been fine.
You know, I I do regret that.
I mean, I've definitely made upfor it because, like I, I love
this kid so much and I want tobe a good father, because my

(15:52):
father definitely was not thebest one.
Yes, flair, I'm trying to feedyou and then I try to hurt you
and then I just changed yourdiaper, but you're probably
sleeping right.
You're probably sleeping right,you're probably sleeping.
But so, yeah, those first fewdays were super chaotic and then

(16:13):
we had, you know, I wasbouncing around, like you know,
do I?
Where do I go?
And Christina, that's my wife'sname, christina she had a real
tearful exchange.
She was very sad, she feltalone, which is the last thing
you want to feel when you have atwo-day-old baby next to you.
And you know, it was a lot ofnew things and I mean that's
always going to be my bird andthe bear that you know I should
have been there more.
I'm definitely here now.

Carter (16:35):
You know we have a lot of people come through.
Do you feel like you weren'taround because you were having
trouble kind of knowing whatrole you needed to play, or did
you just kind of confused and abit overwhelmed?
So?

Mike (16:48):
you kind of took a step.
Yeah, I think it was a bit ofboth, because, like I know, for
me it's been just through mylife it's like I need an
objective somewhere or else Ican kind of.
I can kind of just kind offloat away and just kind of be
like whatever, and so you know,all I could do was sit there.
But what she wanted was justyou know me there, to know that

(17:11):
you know she's not alone here.
And because you know that firstday we went in I was in the hut
, we had someone come and sleepover and watch the dog.
It's OK.
It's OK, you're just over time.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
Turn the light.

Mike (17:25):
And so, yeah, I think it's okay, you're just over time,
turn the light and so, yeah, Ithink there was also confusion
as well, because you knoweverything is so new and yeah,
so you know, that's I and Ithink that is.
You know, there was some ofthat, you know.
And then, you know, towards theend of her stay I was staying
the nights we had a lot ofpeople come through too, not
spending nights, but we hadparents, you know, our parents,

(17:46):
my grandmother, some friends, mybrother, one of her sisters,
and so there was just so muchhappening and, looking back, I
just wish I probably I wish Ihad known how, how easy it
really was, you know, lookingback on it from from sitting
here with a six-month-old on myleg, but I fumbled that ball.
But since we've been home, I'mup with her.

(18:11):
I love handling her in theevenings.
She's just dancing on my legright now.
She's great enough.
And we always make sure tothank each other, tell each
other how much we appreciateeach other.
We've talked about it.
There's no ill will heldbecause I I, with my actions,
I've shown I actually am goingto be here, you know, through
these last six months and forthe next many decades of having

(18:33):
this one hopefully so you knowdefinitely stumbled out of the
blocks, but I've definitely gotup to speed and I feel pretty
good where I'm at right now yeah.

Carter (18:43):
So I don't think it's something that you should hold
against yourself.
I think it's probably a prettycommon thing in those early,
early days of being a first-timefather to kind of take a step
back and more wait for somecommands or some input from wife
or partner or whatever have you?

(19:04):
I know I definitely did and Iknow I definitely could have
been at the hospital a littlebit more with my wife and my kid
.
But I genuinely was kind ofjust on autopilot, just a
mixture of just being soexhausted, so overwhelmed and
just kind of not knowing what todo, how much I need to be
involved, because in my mind Iwas like, well, I'm just letting
mom and baby bond, becausethat's really, really important,

(19:27):
yeah, um, and then, yeah, Iwent through that guilt as well
of being like, well, you know, Ididn't bond.
Well, I mean I did bond withwith my babies in the first few
days, but not as much as I couldhave or should have, or you
know everything like that.
But I think, yeah, I think justbecause, uh, you know the old
caveman brain a little bit, wego into autopilot a bit and it's

(19:49):
kind of deer in headlights andnot too sure on what to do or
how to act with something so newand overwhelming.

Mike (19:55):
Yeah, you know, and you know, hey, claire, go watch your
video that you wrote somewhereBecause you can relax.
You have these videos you puton called Haybear, these sensory
videos.

Carter (20:10):
Oh yeah, yeah, Haybear is absolutely amazing, oh yeah.
She adores it.
They've been invaluable forwhen my little girl has to go in
the car.
She hates car rides so I putlike a clear plastic bag over
the back seat and put my oldphone in it with hay bear videos
on so she can watch not a bad.

(20:31):
Not a bad, take um but yeah,perfectly, yeah, no, she's
killing.

Mike (20:37):
Watch one of those.
She'll probably fall asleepsoon.
Oh yeah, you know.
Now that you know, we found amore of a rhythm.
The first, the, the first week,especially the first few days
after we got home, were real,especially the first day,
because her mom and sister werehere and so lovely people.
However, her sister has anallergy to our dog's dander, so

(20:59):
that was difficult, and hermother is a super sweet woman.
She's just very anxious andwants to make sure everyone and
everything is right all the time.
She was just on top ofeverything all the time.
So, yeah, it was hard.
It was hard for a few days.
Now she's coming again.

Carter (21:18):
The whole, you know family.
Staying with each other in thefirst few days is a blessing and
a curse, really, isn't it?
Because you've got all the helpthat you need and some, but
what you really need is justalone time with you and your new
family and just to kind of findyour own rhythm.
It's good intentions, but it'sdisruptive at the same time.

Mike (21:38):
Yeah, that's exactly what we said.
We just needed to find a rhythmthat works for us.
And my dog is coming in andI'll have both my kittens, you
know.
Yeah, we just needed to find arhythm that worked, you know,
for us.
You know, with the sleep andeverything I remember we're just
like taking like shifts andsleeping three or four hours

(22:01):
upstairs in bed.
That was a big thing to justdeal to have the bed, because we
just weren't staying downstairsin our living room with the
baths and that because our houseis quite small.
So.
But then we got a nice smallbass and that we could have
upstairs with her.
So we're upstairs more, she'ssleeping better.

Carter (22:20):
But yeah, those first, you know, few months are
certainly certainly interestingyeah very good, so we'll talk a
little bit about what you do fora living and your hobbies and
everything like that.
You're a very, very big sportsguy and you are a creative
writer for a lot of differentsports.
Why don't you tell me a littlebit about that and how that all

(22:40):
came about?
You've been in local sportsmedia since you were 16 years
old.

Mike (22:45):
Yeah Well, first off, can you see me right now?

Carter (22:48):
I cannot.

Mike (22:49):
Okay, because I don't know what the heck happened there.
I just had the app.
I don't know.

Carter (22:55):
I guess we're an audio podcast today.
Yeah, that's okay, I'm notstressed.

Mike (22:58):
All right.
Yeah, something happened when Iswitched my phone over.
But yeah, I was holding thebaby.
Yeah, no, I've always wanted towork in sports.
I reached out to my localnewspaper when I was 16.
They brought me in as an internand I stayed for a couple years
.
Then I went to college and Ijust kind of bounced around
places throughout New Englandand New Hampshire.

(23:20):
It's been great.
It's a fun life when you'rereally young and don't mind
working for pennies and can liveat home with your folks.
I loved it.
It's just that I got older andgot a significant other and
moved in with her and you knowyou have to decide.
You know where do yourpriorities lie.
And while sports are a big, bigpart of my life, I didn't want

(23:42):
them to be a big part of myprofessional life anymore.
And that was a bit hard,because that's been my dream
since I was like nine years oldand now I'm 24, 25, realizing I
have to change.
But it's been so much for thebetter.
I enjoy it what I do now, Ienjoy more and I'm home at night
.
You know I'm not.
I mean there were some days,you know, when the high schools

(24:04):
had their state tournaments andthe colleges had their
tournaments.
You know, in the month of Marchespecially, I'd be out 15, 16
straight nights at games, andall those games starting at six,
seven o'clock at night, and ifthere's a double header, the
second one's starting at eight.
So now I'm not getting hometill 11 or 11, 30, wash, rinse,
repeat, do it tomorrow, and soyou know it's.

(24:25):
You know it is a bit difficult.
A lot of the older relatives inmy family didn't understand why
, because they just look at itas oh, but it's your dream job.
And I'm like, yeah, making 60bucks, $70 a night, is not my
dream job.
That's not what I want to do.
So you know I pulled back.

(24:45):
I went more into marketing,writing more creative stuff, and
you know I've been able tobuild a nice little career for
myself.
And you know I'm home.
I'm home for this one.
I get to hold this one rightnow, here at you know, here in
the evening.
You know I don't have to worryabout.
Oh, I have a deadline, I haveto write this right now.
Oh, I have to do this.
Oh, my God, what about that?

(25:05):
You know, you know I'm, I can,I can exist.
I can exist.
I can be a husband, I could bea dad, I can be with my friends
and you know it doesn't mean I'mjust not a sports fan anymore.
You know, hell, I know you'rethe australian here, but later
this week I'll be the one wakingup early to watch the ashes
with some friends on discord,yeah.
And so, yeah, you know, one ofmy thing, one of you know, one

(25:29):
of my main creative outlets, isthat I have a blog where I'm
going to a from this like travelblog to this like personal
memoir, with basketball kind ofas the connecting thread through

(25:57):
it, and I enjoy it.
I get to be goofy, I get to.
I've written about spoons, I'vewritten about my love of french
fries, or you know some cookieI had at a bakery.
You know I don't need to beserious, but it's important to
me.
And, oh god, Claire, she justhead-butted me.
Oh, my goodness, baby skullsare so damn hard.
So damn hard.
Oh, they dance, aren't they?

(26:18):
But yeah.

Carter (26:20):
So your blog will plug it for you.
It's throughthecurtainblog Yep,and you are on a quest to see a
basketball game at 133 collegesin New England.
At the time of you submittingyour form, you were 43 in.
Yes, is that the same number?
Yeah?

Mike (26:41):
So I told my wife I wasn't going to do the community
colleges and there was onlygoing to be 114.
But I've decided I'm going toadd them, so now it's going to
be 133.
I also haven't told her that meand my friend Sean are probably
going to be 114, but I'vedecided I'm going to add them,
so now it's gonna be 133.
I also haven't told her that meand us, my friend sean, are
probably going to do one wherewe go to every college hockey
rink, so that's over 61.
I haven't told her I will.
Maybe, probably, but like also,this isn't something where I

(27:05):
need to get it done in the nextthree or four years, like I'm
going to be doing this in my 50sand 60s.
Just you, just you know as astill a fun thing to do and, to
you know, maintain relationshipswith friends and places and
stuff.
So I don't really have a bucketlist thing.
Yeah, you know it's.
It's a bucket list thing, youknow, and it's funny because the
first one I did was in FortKent, maine, which is literally

(27:27):
across the river from NewBrunswick, canada, like as north
as it gets in the United States, but not counting Alaska and so
I started there and I've been.
I've been to big arenas and bigcities.
I've been to tiny littlecolleges that'll probably be
closed in 10 years, but it'sbeen really fun.
I've gotten to go to some of myfriends.
It's just, I don't know, like atsome point we're all just going

(27:50):
to be dust.
You know when the sun's goingto engulf the earth.
We're going to be dust at somepoint.
So I'm here, I won this weirdlottery that's called life, so I
might as well do things that Ienjoy instead of, you know,
hustle culture 24 7, grind, setnonsense.
Like I'm going to do stuff thatI enjoy and hopefully do it
with friends and loved ones, andhopefully I it with friends and

(28:10):
loved ones.
Hopefully I'll take this littleone with me.
Well, she's gonna come with methis season to a few, whether
she knows it or not, but shewill be there.

Carter (28:19):
Oh, yeah, yeah I think that's something that could
really really grow into somebeautiful daddy daughter time oh
, I'd love that.

Mike (28:26):
Because also, after my, my folks got divorced.
When I would see my father, I'dsee him on the weekends and the
thing that stuck with us wassports.
So we do a bunch of sports allover, you know, northern
Massachusetts and Boston.
And this is me kind of takingthat ethos that was my childhood
and just dialing it up to thismaximum insane amount, driving

(28:49):
around all over the place.
Because because, also, I don'teven write about this, but my
stepfather and I are big carracing fans and now in the
summers we are trying to go toall the racetracks in in new
england.
That'll probably be done in acouple of years, but that's our
own thing, that we did and it'sjust, that's our time, just me
and him.
Um, yeah, yeah, because it'slike I want to, you know, do

(29:11):
things with the people I careabout.
You know, I'm not, I'm nottrying to get rich off this.
I don't monetize the blog.
You know, if someone came to meand was like I'll pay a hundred
grand a year to do it, yeah,I'll say yes.
But if someone's like I'm gonnapay some sponsorship and I want
, you know, for some, for, youknow, pennies or whatever and I
want creative, say, well, youcan get the hell out of here.

(29:32):
Oh, I don't care about themoney yeah, that's, that's
really good.

Carter (29:38):
So that kind of ties into you, you know, maintaining
your own personal identity,keeping your interests alive and
your friendships alive and howdo you think that plays a part
in your mental health journey asa new parent?

Mike (29:51):
yeah, you know, excuse me, you know I've I've even talked
with my wife about this and somefriends is that you know
maintaining my relationships,especially with my friends that
don't have kids, is veryimportant.
You know, with respect toeveryone know, some of you are
just going to kind of fade away.
I'm sorry, it's just how it is.

(30:13):
Oh no, no, no heart here.
But, like you know, there's oneset of siblings I basically
grew up with.
We went to grade schooltogether.
I'm very close with that wholefamily and you know, right now
none of them are married, Noneof them have kids.
One of them's talked abouthaving kids that I know of, so,
but that would still be in thefuture.

(30:33):
But even right now, you know,especially as Claire starts
growing up and having friends inschool, then their parents come
into the picture and everything.
You know these people that I'vebeen with.
You know one of those friends,one of the siblings.
He was the officiant of ourwedding.
So you know these are peopleI'm very close with.
And you know these are peopleI'm very close with.
And you know, even if it's thetype of thing where you know my,

(30:54):
you know we just chat on thephone a few times a year
something to maintain.
That is very important, becauseI remember my stepfather, whose
name is Bob.
He had a friend from school whowas also named Bob and they
wouldn't see each other much butthey would call each other
every year on each other'sbirthday and it was very
important.
They loved it.
And then Bob the other Bobpassed away and it really

(31:17):
affected my stepfather becausethat anchor point in his life
wasn't there anymore.
And he's of my three parents Ithink Bob's the youngest, he's
like 65, 66.
So they're getting older,they're going to start.
He just had a barrier closefriend of his two days ago who
died from kidney failure and soyou know, maintaining those

(31:40):
friendships is super importantbecause they're not forever and
I want to make them as close toforever as I can be and not lose
myself in being a parent.

Carter (31:50):
Yeah.

Mike (31:50):
You know.
And parent, yeah, you know.
And because you know, the thingthat I always talk about with
people is I have this wonderfullife and now I get to add this
fantastic little addition to it.
You know, because I remember mymother would always say, oh,
when you have a kid, your life'snever your own anymore, and I'd
always be like, fuck out ofhere, man.

(32:11):
Like I've lived for 30, youknow, 32 years, 31 I was 31.
So like I lived for 31 yearsbefore this one came into my
life.
Like that's a lot of me beingme.
Yeah, things are going tochange.
You know things will beamending and all that, but you
know, I've never felt like I'vehad to sacrifice anything
because these things that I'mdoing are things that I want to

(32:33):
do, so to spend more time withmy wife or my daughter, yeah,
what's up?
I do this for you.
I do this for you.
Please be quiet.

Carter (32:42):
I do this for you, I love it I love you, little one
and how about your wife does shemaintain a pretty pretty good
friendship group and and sociallife I mean she, she definitely
so.

Mike (32:53):
I mean I, I'm a a writer who works from home so I can be
very flexible.
She's a physical therapist whoworks in a hospital and works a
second shift and long hours, soshe doesn't get to do that as
much as she would like, but shedefinitely does, you know, and
yeah you know there's okay, morefeeding for the little.

(33:17):
And yeah, you know that'sanother thing.
You know she, you know she's ina a friend's wedding.
She goes spends a weekend forthe bachelorette party.
Okay, like, go be with thegirls, like, don't worry about
us, we'll be fine.
You know, go have.
You know, spend a day with mom.
To go spend a day with somefriends it's the same thing with
me.
Hey, go get out of here, go tothe race with ball.

(33:40):
And yeah, you know it's.
You know we're not keeping scoreof.
Well, you saw friends threetimes this month.
I've only seen them two timesthis month.
That's.
That's a that's a real bad wayto build a relationship.
But you know, we do our bestwith what we can to, you know,
maintain a social life.
And we've been together now.
We've been married two and ahalf years.

(34:02):
We've been together almosteight.
So a lot of people who are herfriends are my friends and
people who are my friends areour friends.
You know, we're all just kindof.
You get married, you build alife with someone and you start
to intertwine and mesh yourselfwith them as it goes, as it
should.
We're seeing some friends nextweek who just gave birth to her

(34:27):
son in May, first time seeingtheir new boy.
Some other friends in August ona of my fraternity brothers his
wife in August, who they justhad their son in October.
So you know, we're definitelynot party people, we're
definitely not going to the cluband the bar.
We didn't do that before.
So but you know, if sometimes,as I say, you know, you toss her
in the car and go somewhere,that's what we do, you know.

(34:47):
Say you know you toss her inthe car and go somewhere, that's
what we do, you know.
Oh, you know we have an off dayand Christine is like you know,
we need to get some errandsdone.
We're going to go have lunchwith someone.
Okay, well, claire will comewith us and if we have to change
her or something, it's fine.
It's not a big deal.

Carter (35:05):
It's always fun to hear like kind of those processes
with other parents, because mywife and I we're neurodivergent,
so being social and kind ofgoing out and doing errands and
all of that sort of thing, it'slike big deals to us.
It takes some like mentalpreparation, and then we know
that afterwards we're going tobe pretty depleted as far as,
like our social battery goes.

(35:26):
So this podcast in itself islike my biggest kind of social
outlet.
I mean, I have like one bestfriend who lives in a different
state.
He works in movies, so I seehim maybe twice a year.
We talk online a lot and we'lllike play some video games
online together every now andthen, but apart from that it's
pretty much like my wife's, mybest friend and our three kids.

(35:47):
So hearing about parents thathave the get up and go to go out
and be as social as you andyour wife is like it exhausts me
hearing about it.

Mike (35:58):
Well, really it's me and I'm not speaking out of turn
because my wife would just siton the couch and watch every
episode of RuPaul's Drag Race atevery cooking show in the world
and just stay there.
She has flat said that to me.
So I get her out more and Iespecially like going to all
these games for work and stuff.
Like I'm just like I have thatget up and go.

(36:20):
I remember, you know that firstmonth or two I would constantly
say, hey, let's just go for adrive, let's just go to the mall
or something.
She would just say you can't goto the mall or something.
She would just say you can'tbecause I know you need to get
out, I'm fine.
Like don't say we, I'm fine andshe's right, you know.
I mean, there was one day shewas working, last month she was

(36:42):
working and I just tossed clairein the car.
I just wanted to get out of thehouse.
We went to a lacrosse gametogether and yeah, people are
like staring at me like you camewith an infant.
I'm like, yeah, I'm here for anhour and a half.
It's not that big of acommitment, like it's not like a
you know this whole big roadtrip and then I'm at the thing
for five hours like a wedding orsomething.

(37:03):
I'm just going to a game andthen I'm gonna stop and get a
drink and a drive-thru and gohome yeah but yeah, but yeah,
you know it's-.

Carter (37:10):
I would love to be more like that.
I would love to just like, ifmy kids say let's go to the park
, I have to kind of be likewe'll go to the park like next
weekend, Okay, and then I havelike a good couple of days to
mentally prepare myself To go tothe park and talk to other
families and you know, watch mykid eating dirt and watch my
other kid falling off a swingand like that.

(37:32):
That takes time for me tomentally prepare for that, just
because of how neurodivergent Iam yeah, I mean I have.

Mike (37:38):
I was diagnosed adhd when I was like seven, six, seven, I
don't know.
Yeah, oh, but like I understand, because there's there are some
days where it's like I'll beout with people and then
instantly I'm like I cannot bearound anyone right now.
I need to leave now.
I am going to have a panicattack right now?
I don't.
It doesn't happen often, butit's happened enough where I

(38:00):
don't can, because sometimes you, just you, just you're just
done like I like, I like all, Ilike all of you.
I just don't want to see youright now.
It's nothing personal, justdon't want to see you right now.
It's nothing personal.
I just don't want to see youright now.

Carter (38:12):
Yeah, it's all about that social battery and you know
, even with this podcast and howmuch this is in my control and
I can kind of schedule peoplewhen I want and kind of end the
episodes when I want, and it'svery much, I'm the master of my
own, I'm like the puppet masterof the podcast.
You know.
Yeah, even then I I find myself, just like in the hour leading

(38:37):
up to starting a recording, mymind's like, oh my god, like you
have to talk and be social whenall you want to do is sleep.
yeah, so it's very much like melike mental preparing myself and
it's like my social anxietykicks in and it's very fight or
flight for me yeah, I mean also,it is something that I
absolutely love.

Mike (38:56):
Yeah, you know, I mean for me, like I've done tv
broadcasting very low level withsports, so it's like I have
that and I call it my prowrestling character.
I'm a big wrestler, so I callit my pro wrestling character
and I can just kind of turn thatswitch on and then the game
ends and it's like okay, I'mgoing home, I'm saying I love
you to my wife and then we'rejust gonna watch drag race.

(39:17):
Oh, that's all we're doing.
Oh, you know, it's you know.
I also think it's also.
There's this weird thing, justkind of, especially in western
culture, where it's like it kindof goes back to that hustle and
grind mindset, where it's likeyou have to always be on, you
need to be doing every job, youneed to be, you have a building,
every connection, you need tobe networking every single day.

(39:38):
If you're not on a work phonecall for 23 hours a day, what
are you even doing?
And it's like I don't know.
Playing playstation like like Ijust I just want to play some
games by myself, like I'mstaring.
I have my old Super Nintendostaring at me.
I haven't used it.
In a few months Maybe I'll playsome.
But yeah, like I think, and thenalso with parents, I think,

(40:00):
especially with moms.
Especially with moms, it's likethere's this pressure to be
like, oh, everything is so greatand magical and amazing and
it's like, yeah, it's reallynice, but some sometimes it
sucks.
You know, like you know, whenyour dog, like last night, when
your dog keeps you up till 3, 15in the morning and I finally

(40:21):
get into bed and wakes up andstarts crying because he's
hungry 10 minutes later, likeyou know, that's not fun, but
it's just a part of it.
Yeah, those nights are tough.

Carter (40:30):
Yeah, you know, in the trenches nights I always say in
the trenches.
You know, like last week westarted my four-year-old girl is
mostly potty trained Like shestill has to wear nighttime
nappies though.
So we started trying to do thenighttime nappy free.
So we started trying to do thenighttime nappy free and you

(40:51):
know, I'd set an alarm for like10 pm to get her up and go to
the toilet and then, like 2 amto go to the toilet.
And you know, last week we hada night where she'd wet the bed
at around 2 am and then I hearher brother coughing down the
hallway and I go in to check onhim and he's spewed in the bed

(41:12):
and then, because he's spewed inthe bed, I'm like changing his
bed and changing her bed andthen through all of that, they
both were crying because theywere tired and that woke up the
10 month old and I have allthree kids up at 3am now and I'm
just exhausted and it's reallylike these in the trenches
moments where you just feel soso sad and so tired and you're
just like, oh, what is my life?

(41:33):
But then they wake up the nextmorning and they're like asking
for breakfast and being all cuteand asking for cuddles on the
couch and you're like, yeah,this is good, yeah, this is
what's up?

Mike (41:42):
Well, claire just fell asleep in my arm, so I'm feeling
pretty nice right now.

Carter (41:46):
Yeah.

Mike (41:46):
Yeah, but so, yeah, yeah, but so you know, like, but you
know there's that pressure toalways talk about how wonderful
and you know, overall, like youknow, it's like one of those do
you know those graphs you knowshowing, like you know, the
stock price of something?
Like it may trend up overall,but there are some days where,
oh, the stock lost 30 percent invalue and a week later it was

(42:08):
back up 50 percent.
So like, yeah, overall it goesup, but there were some of those
huge spikes down, like you hadlast last week, like I had last
night, like those days justhappen.
It's not.
I'm not saying, oh my god, Ihate my kid, I'm gonna go leave
them at an orphanage.
Just, shit happens.
You know we're pretty lucky thatespecially my wife has a lot of
her two of her childhoodfriends.

(42:29):
Both of them have a kid andboth have a second on the way.
One of her very good friends isgetting married this fall and
is going to be trying for kidsimmediately.
You know there's, so she hasyou know peers, people that
she's known for a long time, whoyou know have kids and she can,
you know, talk with andeverything so and they're very
welcoming and there's they'renot judgmental about.

(42:51):
Oh well, a real mom does thisnonsense, whatever that bs is.
You know for me with.
You know my friends with, likeyou know the guys I grew up with
as friends, like in one of myfraternity brothers from college
.
He, he's a dad from you know,he's the one I'm up with as
friends, like in one of myfraternity brothers from college
.
He, he's a dad from you know,he's the one I'm seeing later
this this summer but forprobably like a 10 month old at
the time.
But like the people I went tolike high school with and stuff

(43:12):
till I was friendly with hiskids, none of them have kids.
So I'm kind of, you know, inthat regard, like, yeah, I have
peers in other places, but youknow it's like you know I I'm
the first, so people will ask mea lot of stuff.
And the weirdest thing that'shappened especially happened the
first few months where, like, Iwas talking with someone and
they would always be like justin the flow of conversation yeah

(43:33):
, you know my work is crazy.
Like you know how awful mymanager is and everything.
It's just I'm just so tired andso exhausted with this.
Well, not as tired as you, Imean I'm nowhere near as tired
as you and I'd have to be likeit's okay, like work's hard,
society's hard, like you couldbe tired, it's okay.

Carter (43:54):
Like it's not a contest.
Everyone has that mental load.
Yeah, everyone has that mentalload, and it's funny to kind of
see people think differently ofyou because you're a dad.

Mike (44:09):
So they think you know you're worse off because of
fatherhood or motherhood or just, you know, being a parent.
Yeah, I mean I think, like Isaid, it's, it's great, you know
, I love it.
I'm sure you know you talkabout how much you love it, talk
about get those little cuddles,even after a night sick, and
you know, but like I'm still me,you know, I I've never had this
moment of, you know, wow, lookat you know, I mean, I've had
moments that I can't believe I,I I made this kid.

(44:29):
I've had moments of just thisdeep, deep love, like what you
call sleep on my chest.
You know, at the same time,like I've never had this,
everything's different for me.
It is, you know, a big addition, a little more responsibility.
But you know, I think for us, Ithink I think because we just
have the one kid, even thoughour dog just turned two a week
ago.
She is 65 pounds, she's asweetheart, but, boy, howdy she

(44:54):
could be a nightmare, like lastnight.
But there's times where, likeright now, the dog's sleeping
upstairs, so there could just bedays where it's like I'll just
look at my wife, I'm like you goupstairs to sleep, don't worry
about an alarm, I can take careof her.
And then it goes the other way.
I know with three kids it's abit more herding sheep sometimes

(45:16):
from what I've seen with peoplewith multiple kids.
But either way, the only wayout is through.
We're not better people fordoing it.
You know like and any guy canbe a dad.
Give him about 15 minutes orless.
They could very easily startthe path of becoming a dad, a
father.
But to be a good dad.
So being a father, that's easy,being a good dad, that's hard

(45:39):
and that takes time and mistakesand learning from your mistakes
, and so you know I was talkingabout.
I made one right out the gateon the night.
If she was born, and you know,you just try and learn and grow
from it.

Carter (45:50):
But I'm not better or worse than anybody, it's
definitely a big differencebetween being a father and being
a dad.

Mike (45:56):
I think yeah yeah, I mean the thing that also I've gotten
lit up on online a few times forsaying this is that in the big
scheme of things, I don't thinkbeing a good dad is that hard,
but the things you need to do tobe a good dad.
If you break those rules, youcan never fix it.
You know once you break likeyou have to, you know build

(46:17):
trust and maintain trust withyour child.
I've seen this like my ownfather broke my trust.
It's never been the same and itnever will be the same.
Same way you have to validateyour kid.
You need to actively listen,you need to be there, not just
physically be there, but bethere, be there and you need to
try.
I talked about my father asecond ago.
I didn't see him for two years,a couple years back, because a

(46:42):
lot of oppressed anger andmemories came out and I came
back to being invalidated andhaving my trust broken time and
time again In a lot of smallways, but they keep doing it,
small ways a lot of the time.
A lot of times it adds up andso you know those things.
It's not a long list, but ifyou break one of those rules,
you can try and glue that, pulland glue it back together.

(47:04):
You know, repair it.
Maybe it could be kind of likewhat it was.
It'll never be as strong as itwas, so yeah, there's always
going to be that crack thereunderneath the repairing.

Carter (47:15):
It's always going to be that crack.
Yeah, I think I think, as faras you know, being a parent goes
, just being emotionallyavailable and showing up is the
most important part.
Yeah, you know that was.
You just have to try toremember that their world
experience may be different toyours, but they're kids, you
know they're seeing the worldthrough an entirely different
lens to you, so you need to tryto understand that and try to be

(47:39):
there for that.
To understand that and try tobe there for that while they ask
a thousand questions a day andyou have, you know, been at your
customer service job for 12hours talking to people all
fucking day, and then you've gota thousand questions coming
home and you're just so mentallydrained that you want to tell
them to shut up.
But that's not the way to do it.
You know that they're justtrying to converse with you.
Who's?
You know, the most importantthing in their life is their

(48:01):
parents.
Yeah, and for you to kind of belike, oh, you know, I'm really,
really tired, I'm at my witsend, I don't want to have to
deal with this and then yousilence them by, like, placing
them down in front of a screenor something like they pick up
on that, but that makes themfeel unwanted and that makes
that invalidates theirexperience as a new human, and

(48:23):
that's, that's pretty sucky.
Yeah, I'm, I'm guilty of it.
You know everyone has theirthreshold and I'm not shaming a
parent in any way, shape or form, because I think it is
important for kids to learn andunderstand that they aren't
always going to be the maincharacter.
But at the same time, you knowyou need to find some form of
balance where it maybe favorsthem a little bit more than you
yeah, you know, because, likeand like you talk about

(48:43):
validating, that was like such abig thing that led to the
fallout with my father.

Mike (48:47):
You know, I've just recently reconciled to a point
in the last year when this onecame into the picture because
and the reason I did that wasbecause I wasn't going to ask my
mom who, while my folks aredivorced, they still keep in
contact.
They folks are divorced, theystill keep in contact.
They're on, you know, they'reon cordial terms.

(49:07):
I wasn't going to want, Iwasn't going to, it wasn't fair
to ask them to lie about theexistence of my daughter and I
wasn't going to ask them to dothat.
And also, like, I had to justforgive myself for being so
angry, because having a kidtakes up a lot of emotional and
mental bandwidth and all thisanger I was holding on to was
taking up a lot of emotional andmental bandwidth.
Something had to give andclaire won very easily.
But, yeah, like, so much of myfather was just invalidating.
You know, like, you're like,like, and again it would

(49:30):
manifest in small ways, but I'ma big believer in you.
You learn everything you needto know about someone on the
fringes, you know when they'reat a big event and they're at
their, at their best.
They know people are watching.
You learn nothing about someone, but when they're in private,
that's when you see everythingbetter for good or good or for

(49:50):
bad, and so like, like anexample to that to show like
what happened with my father andalso what I plan to not do with
this one.
So in massachusetts everyfebruary there's a hockey
tournament called the Bean Pop,which is the four big colleges
in Boston have this tournament.
It's very.
They've been doing it for like70 years.
It's a huge deal in the city.

(50:11):
It's one of my favorite localsporting events and as a kid I
always wanted to go but I nevercould because they play it on
the first two Mondays inFebruary and he would always say
we can't because it's a schoolnight, which, as a child, felt
like a fair answer.
So then I went to college,which was I went to college in
Rhode Island, but I was stillclose enough where I could get

(50:31):
to Boston, you know, for anevent like that.
And so I would ask him again,and now it was.
Well, you know, there's a lotof distance, you know.
Know, I don't want you drivinghome so late at night.
And I'm like, I'm 21, 22 yearsold, I can handle a one hour
drive at night and so then Igraduate college and I asked
again well, now he can't do itbecause it's a work night and

(50:54):
the line just can't move.
So eventually I said, fuck this.
I asked my stepfather and he'slike, okay, okay, what went with
him?
Yeah, yeah, and so it was likeit was those little things that
built up over 25 odd years.
It led to be exploded at myfather years ago, I mean, among
other things, you know, amonghim being a very loud supporter

(51:18):
of donald trump.
Along with him, just he wentinto my like find my student
loan information, my financialinformation, behind my back.
That was breaking trust and itwas all these things that piled
up and you know.
So then he's all sad I haven'tseen him in two years.
It's like, you know, I tried mybest.
It's like you didn't try at all, like well, what did you want
me to do?
I was telling you like very, invery simple language, what I

(51:42):
wanted you to do.
This wasn't, you know, thiswasn't a math test.
And so you know he, you knowit's about making the time, you
know, did he have to go everysingle year that I wanted to go?
No, but if you just gone once,just once, it would have been
completely different.
So you know, with this one mygoal is to just you know, maybe
we can't go all the time, butespecially that first time they

(52:05):
ask you go, because if they'reasking that matters yes, I think
it's really, really there'slike this recurring theme,
especially with all of the menthat I've had on the podcast,
all of the dads.

Carter (52:17):
It seems that their parenting styles have formed in
spite of the way that they wereparented by their fathers Excuse
me and I think that that'sreally, really like a massive,
massive turning point in society.
You know, I myself became afather, scared that I was going
to make the same mistakes thatmy father did.
And you know, while I'm notgoing to sit here and, you know,

(52:38):
bash on my father, hedefinitely has admitted himself
that he wasn't a great father,he wasn't there for us enough
and he had some issues withinhimself that he projected onto,
you know, his wife, my motherand us kids.
But I think, you know, goinginto me becoming a father, I was
very much like I'm going toparent in the style that's
opposite to my father, to makesure that my kids kind of grow

(53:00):
up the way I wish I grew up.
And I feel that that's a really, really common theme in the
dads that I have interviewed forthe podcast.
So it seems like it's auniversal language of you know,
if you've got a father thatwasn't emotionally available and
you yourself become a father.
It creates a little bit ofanxiety and a little bit of
trepidation when it comes tobecoming a father yourself and

(53:21):
the style in which you're goingto parent.

Mike (53:23):
Yeah for sure, because also, like going back another
generation, like my father'sfather, my grandfather just a.
You know, I will never say thatmy father was.
My dad was a horrible man,because he isn't.
He's just emotionallyunavailable.
You know he's not.
I'm not going to call him agood person, but he's certainly
not an evil, malicious person.

(53:44):
My grandfather was.
He's still alive, and I sayregrettably, still alive, and I
have no shame in saying that.
You know he threw my fatherdown flights of stairs when he
was a kid.
I remember I went, we went to govisit my grandfather when I was
in Florida when I was 14 or 15.
I've always been overweight,I'm a big dude.
He lived in Florida when I waslike 14 or 15.
I've always been overweight,I'm a big dude.
And he had a scale in thekitchen and he was always

(54:06):
twisting my arm about my weight.
Why don't you step on the scaleand things like that.
But so like I feel like for myfather being better than my
grandfather, so for my dad to bebetter than my grandfather.
It was like don't physicallyabuse your kid.
And my father never did, youknow.
You know that was never.
That was never a thing I meanhe used to.
Honestly he didn't.
He rarely raised his voice.

(54:26):
You know so.
But you know, like you know itcomes down to you don't know
what you don't know.
But also you know when I wasjust you know, because it's like
if it's one of those thingswhere he would have, you know,
just act like I said, if he hadgone to that hockey tournament
one time, if he had made anattempt to apologize for that

(54:50):
when I was, very in simplelanguage, telling him he had
invalidated one time, it wouldhave gone so far.
So when he apologizes forsomething now, my thought
process goes okay, yeah, butwhat is this?
This?
Because I've just been beatendown by all of his half measures
throughout the years.
But again, yeah, he was betterthan his father.

(55:11):
So you know, I'm trying to bebetter than him.
You know he loves his littlegranddaughter, love his little
granddaughter.
So you know, you know is.
Am I going to have clairearound her regularly?
Probably not, because, like Istill, I still don't trust him
in a lot of ways.
You know he's he has a longhistory of making some very

(55:33):
casual sexist remarks.
He just made one a few days agoand I just hung up the phone.
Yeah, when he was playing rapeapologist for conor mcgreg, a
UFC fighter, and I was like,would you say that?
I said why don't you come hereand say that in front of your
granddaughter?
He said well, I would never saythat in front of her.
Oh, so you're not going tostand up for what you're saying
here?
I said okay, we're done.

(55:54):
He did send it that locker roomtalk pisses me off doesn't it?

Carter (55:58):
Yeah, like the whole.
Yeah, I mean even just casuallysaying sexist or racist things.
You know, I grew up in ahousehold around my father who
was quite casually racist and,you know, would always tell
racist jokes and never still tothis day, doesn't find anything
wrong with them.
Yeah, grew up with a bestfriend who was like an active

(56:29):
skinhead and he was like mybrother.
We were best friends for over adecade.
I was the best man at hiswedding, I was godfather to his
child and it took me a long timeto realize just how toxic and
bad all of that stuff was.
You know, I always kind of cameat it from an angle of like, you
know, if it's a joke itshouldn't matter and that's such
a wrong way of seeing the world, like you need to step outside
of that and realize you know,I'm a white person and I can sit

(56:50):
there and be like, well, theycould say that about my race and
that's totally fine, I wouldn'tbe offended.
But then when you kind of lookinto it in the history and how
bloody privileged it is to justsay those types of things, you
realize how toxic it is and howoffensive it could be.
And you know some people justdon't have that empathy and
never will.
And you know, for me being likethat for so many years, even

(57:12):
though it was a learned behaviorand there was a certain level
of indoctrination to it, I'llalways hold just such a massive
amount of guilt for the thingsthat I said, even in a joking
manner, and there was never anymaliciousness behind it, and I'm
not a racist person and it'sjust yucky, it's just really
yucky.

Mike (57:30):
I remember on on a discord I'm with we were talking about
that I said I'm I'm not a bigot,but I've definitely said things
and propagated up bigotedbeliefs at institutions when I
was younger.
100%, I know that I did,especially when I was a kid in
school.
When someone thought somethingwas dumb, it was oh, that's gay.

(57:53):
That was just what it was 20years ago, 15 years ago.

Carter (57:58):
Gay or retarded sorry to say the hard R word.

Mike (58:02):
Those are the two we no longer use in our lives, but we
definitely used them growing up.
Oh yeah, there to say the hardR word.

Carter (58:02):
Those are the two we no longer use in our lives, but we
definitely used them growing up.
Oh yeah, there was nothingwrong with them then 100%.

Mike (58:09):
You know, and you know I talk a lot about my father here,
but I've gotten stuff like thatfrom my mother and even my
stepfather too.
You know, like it's just likeokay, but why Like?
Why to any of this?
It's not you know.
And I have to check myselfBecause, like I mean, yes,

(58:31):
anyone looks at me, they see awhite person.
I'm Jewish.
There's a hell of a lot ofpeople in this world that would
not call me a white person, so Icall myself a white, passing
Jew, because there's just somuch history behind all of that,
especially specifically here inthe Northeast United States
where I live, and that oldhistory, you know, never really
goes away.
But so you know, I know that inone aspect I am privileged,

(58:54):
another aspect I'm not.
And so it's like you know, Ialways need to be checking
myself and also for me, ifsomeone says something that
makes them, if I say somethingor do something that makes
someone feel uncomfortable.
You know, when someone comes atme with, hey, this kind of makes
me uncomfortable, this or thatI'm a defensive person, like I
will get defensive at firstpretty much every time.

(59:16):
That's going to be my default,every time I that I just like my
mother in that regard.
I will be like like wait aminute.
But then eventually I say, well, now hold on, let me.
I kind of I try to externalizeit and say, if I'm in their
shoes, to hear me say thatthat's not right.
And it's not hard for me to,for me to not say this word or
to change this behavior, it'snot difficult.

(59:38):
So if it makes the peoplearound me more comfortable, why
wouldn't I do it like that's thething for me is like it's not
hard.
You know.
Like you know I'm, I'm not atrans person.
I trans rights are human rights.
I'm still not a trans person.
However, their lives and theirneed to affirm their gender me

(59:59):
personally, in my small slice ofthe world it doesn't affect me
good, bad or anything but it'svery important for someone who's
transitioning.
Okay, so I'm not going to.
It's not hard for me to justlet them live their life.
So many people like politiciansand whatnot, won't let them
live their lives.
I'm like they ain't.
If they're a shitty person andharassing me and my daughter,

(01:00:23):
well, okay, they're a shittyperson.
I'm going to deal with a shittymotherfucker how I have to, no
matter who they are.
But if someone's just livingtheir life loving who they love,
there's no issue.
And where it's people searchingfor a problem.
And so you know, if I can, inany small way, create a safe
space or be a good example forsomeone you know, then I'm going

(01:00:45):
to do it.
I don't think it's thatdifficult, yeah.

Carter (01:00:47):
And those love lessons translate to being a parent as
well.
I think the biggest, the mostimportant things is being a
parent.
Not only being a parent, butbeing just a decent human being
is 100% validating otherpeople's experiences, being
emotionally present, advocatingfor the downtrodden.
You know everyone talks aboutfreedom of speech and how
important freedom of speech is,and to an extent, I believe that

(01:01:10):
freedom of speech is such animportant, incredible thing.
But when you are using freedomof speech to push people down
instead of bring people up, it'snot freedom of speech anymore,
it's just you being a cunt.
Yeah, I don't, and we need tofight against that yeah, I guess
it's not.

Mike (01:01:28):
I don't, like I said, I don't think it's that difficult.

Carter (01:01:31):
You know, like my wife and I even had the conversation,
you know, if claire wants totransition when she's older, we
both just said okay like wesupport our job, like whatever,
whatever this one does, like wehave, oh yep, my four-year-old
girl comes home, tells me thatshe's got a girlfriend or a
boyfriend, or she loves bothgirls and boys, and like I don't

(01:01:51):
act any way about it, I don'tmake a big deal of it, I'm like
that's cool you know, whateverlike, whatever you want,
whatever makes you happy andlike we have talked to her about
.
You know, know, trans and gayand lesbian and pansexual and
asexual and everything like that.
You know my wife, her name'sGeorgia, she goes by George, she

(01:02:12):
goes by she, her or they, them,whichever.
She's not stressed about it.
But you know she doesn't seeherself as a female.
She's feminine presenting butnot feminine in soul.
So she doesn't put like a hardand fast label on it, she's just
more comfortable being calledGeorge.
But you know she's notrejecting her femininity in any

(01:02:35):
way.

Mike (01:02:36):
Yeah, I mean I'm pansexual and it's like I'm he, him and
it's like but I, I mean call mewhenever you want.
I mean there's been times wherein conversation my wife has
even started calling me likegirl you know that's how it is,
or something like that, and shewas like why did I do that?
I'm like it's okay.
Like you know, sometimes I wantto get my girl out, it's fine
yeah you know, like you know,I'm.

(01:02:58):
You know, I just use this as oneexample, but I'm the one who
pushes to go get manicures andpedicures, not her.

Carter (01:03:04):
Oh man, I love a good mani-pedi.
It's one of my favorite thingsto do with my wife.

Mike (01:03:08):
It's so nice.
My toenails are currently likea deep, rich purple.
I paint the toenails in thesummer, I do the fingers in the
winter.
But yeah, like you know, mypronouns are go and say that,
but it's not for, for me it'snot, it's not, it's not
something that defines.
I know for some people it's avery important thing and if that

(01:03:29):
is like, I want to make sure Iget it right.
You know I don't want to, youknow, dead name you or misgender
you, because I've decided thatI'm not going to listen to
anyone and me being me is moreimportant than you in any way.
No, dick move, I try to not dodick.
Yeah, so you know, I just wantto show by example.
You know how to be a goodperson to my daughter here.

(01:03:51):
That's not to say that I don'thave a mean street gig, because
my wife definitely knows that Ido and I've worked on it a lot
in therapy.

Carter (01:04:00):
So you actively go to therapy.

Mike (01:04:02):
Yeah, I mean I haven't gone in a few months, but yeah,
I went to the therapist.
I'm trying to get back withthem now.
With them they they'retransitioning, change the
pronouns, see, it's all tyingtogether right now and I'm
trying to get back to see them.
Sent them an email a few daysago.
So so good, so great to helpget my mind right.
Yeah, you know, I'm on lexapro.
That's definitely helped helphave the good brain meds.

(01:04:24):
But yeah, like you know, I needto make sure you know, like I
tell people, you know well, yourkids you're high, your top
priority, and I'm like not evenclose, no way, I am my top
priority.
Always in the ground cut if Iam not at my best, if my head's
not right, if my mind and myspirit and my body isn't right,
that my marriage isn't right, mymarriage isn't right, my

(01:04:46):
parenting isn't right.
Now the whole house of cards isfalling down.
So you know, it's superimportant to me to make sure I'm
at my best, because this onewho's totally asleep in my arm
needs me to be at my best.

Carter (01:04:57):
Yeah, yeah.
So you know that life balanceis just paramount.
And it, yeah, yeah.
So you know life, that lifebalance is just as paramount.
And it's so easy to putyourself in your own needs by
the wayside for other people.
But you know your, your focusand and kind of those life goals
start to wane when one of thosebuckets starts to deplete and
be empty.

Mike (01:05:16):
Yeah, you know, my wife even noticed a few days ago she
was, she was home from work orit was a weekend or something.
I had a few short nights sleepand I was, I kept pushing, I was
keep pushing and I woke up oneday at like it was like a
weekend.
I woke up at like 6 30 to letthe dog out and she just looks
at me and just says, just goupstairs, said I'm sorry about
it's, fine, I'm okay, goupstairs.

(01:05:37):
And then I didn't realize thatI woke up at like 11, like five
hours straight straight sleep.
You know, after you know an upand down night of sleep and I
just felt so good.
So you know it's, I look out forher, she looks out for me, we
both look out for those littlebundle of joy.
You know, like we're notkeeping score.
That's another thing.
Don't keep score.

(01:05:58):
Try, listen, and those fallinto place and you can do the
fun stuff.
Like you know, I took her to gosee pro wrestling with me a few
weeks ago.
Yeah, so you know I have theselittle headphones I put on her
ears.
It's great, but yeah, likemaybe it's gonna live our lives
awesome.

Carter (01:06:14):
I think that's probably a good point to wrap up.
Is there anything further youwant to add before we, before we
end the call, or anything youwant to throw out into the world
?
You can definitely plug yourblog again, or anything that
you're doing creatively.

Mike (01:06:27):
Yeah, well, first off, thank you for having me on.
I'd love to be back on in thefuture, of course.
Yeah, you know.
Yes, please read through thecurtainblog.
Please read my journeys throughNew England college basketball.
It's so much fun.
If you're from New England, youcan contact me through the
website.
Maybe we can go to a gametogether.
If you're cool pretty mucheveryone.
If you want to go see low-levelcollege basketball, you're

(01:06:49):
going to be cool in my book.
And that just leads to a point.
Whenever I do a podcast, Ialways say support your local,
whether it's your localindependent wrestling promotion,
that local coffee or sandwichshop that you love, that little
local rock and roll club, thatmusic club that always has the
cool fun underground shows.
Always support your local,especially in a world where just

(01:07:09):
so much of everything keepsconsolidating until fewer and
fewer companies, until Disneyowns everything.
Support your local as long asyou can, as strongly as you can,
so that the whole world isn'tjust Starbucks, walmart and
McDonald's Awesome.

Carter (01:07:23):
All right, well, and McDonald's Awesome All right,
Well.
Thank you so much for joiningme today, Michael.
It's been great talking to you,Thank you.
I think you're the first parentI've had on.
That's got an incredibly kindof different life to me as far
as like being social and keepingyour passions alive and things
like that.
I very much made parenting mypassion and it's awesome to hear

(01:07:43):
how our lives intersect and howwe've got similarities even
though we're from two completelydifferent worlds.
I think that's one of the mostmagic parts of this podcast.

Mike (01:07:52):
Yeah, Like you know, there's no wrong or right way to
be a dad.
Well, there's a wrong way.
There is a wrong way.
There is definitely a wrong way.

Carter (01:08:01):
It's as long as it works for you and your family.

Mike (01:08:03):
Yeah, you know there's.
You know, like, one of myfriends lives in Manhattan.
He has a new, you know, has anew bit in Manhattan.
I can't imagine having to hairinto New York City and what
that's like.

Carter (01:08:15):
Yeah, definitely.

Mike (01:08:16):
Yeah, you know it's.
There's no, you know onecorrect way to pair it, and as
long as it works for you, itworks for you, and right now I
must be doing something goodbecause she's still asleep.

Carter (01:08:25):
Awesome.
Well, thank you for joining meand thank Baby Claire for
joining me and making minimalnoise and allowing Daddy to do
the podcast.

Mike (01:08:32):
I really appreciate it mate.

Carter (01:08:34):
Thanks so much, carter.
No worries, bye-bye, take care.

Speaker 4 (01:08:38):
I wake up it's another day.
I try and find a way To make itso my life's a better place.
If there's one thing I see,then your only thing is me.
Just knowing that I'm trying tomake a change.
Can I put it all on me,responsibilities and all the

(01:09:07):
other nonsense coming byrepeatedly?
There's one thing I know it'sknowing to let go.
Just knowing that I'm trying tomake a change.
Does it seem too much Just toask for love?
Cause there's many things thatI do over, and I've got a lot,

(01:09:35):
but I won't give up On thosemany things that I do over.

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New Dad Chronicles | Mike’s Journey from Sports Journalism to Breaking Generational Cycles in Fatherhood

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}New Dad Chronicles | Mike’s Journey from Sports Journalism to Breaking Generational Cycles in Fatherhood