February 16, 2022 • 55 mins
Bay Area artist Karl X Hauser joins Jen for a conversation about his long career in art. Karl creates narrative drawings and sculptures that are quirky, playful but also a little dark. His characters spring from his imagination, and seem to be up to childlike antics, but always with a slightly sinister edge.
Working in materials such as cast metals, kiln formed glass, wire and nails, and keeping them in a raw unpolished state, Karl’s materials tamper any overly playful sense of innocence or purity. This contrast creates a yummy combination of slightly sinister and sweet, and encourages the viewer to ponder just a little longer.
Check out Karl's work on the gallery website:
https://jentough.gallery/collections/karl-x-hauser
On Karl's Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/karlxhauser/
On Karl's website:
https://www.karlxhauser.com/
Become a member of the Artist Alliance! We offer stay-in-place residencies, exhibitions where artists earn 100%, challenges, workshops and a friendly community of artists of all levels! Join today: https://artistalliancemembership.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jen Tough (00:00):
Welcome to Tough on Art, the podcast for artists
interested in ways to get aheadin today's art market.
I'm Jen Tough owner of Jen ToughGallery and the Artist Alliance
community.
Join me for some down to earth.
Talk about the best ways forartists to navigate this new and
different lands.
Hi everybody.
I'm Jen tough.
And today I'm super excited tobe speaking with bay area
(00:22):
artists, Karl X Hauser, Karlcreates narrative drawings and
sculptures that are quirkyplayful, and always a little bit
dark.
The characters he creates springfrom his imagination and seem to
be up to childlike antics, butalways with a slightly sinister
edge with titles that allude tothese adventures such as head on
(00:43):
wheels, rice cake version.
Describing a beast with threeheads waiting for your turn in
the hole.
That one cracks me up andcarsick his creation, spark,
curiosity, and joy to all lookat it.
He usually works in materials,such as cast metals, kiln formed
glass.
Wire and nails, and he keepsthem in a really raw unpolished
(01:05):
state, the materials, tamper,any overly playful sense of
innocence or purity.
And this contrast really createsa yummy combination of slightly
sinister and sweet andencourages everyone to ponder
and look just a little bit long.
So let's begin and thank you forjoining me.
So hi everybody.
This is Jen Tough.
(01:25):
I hope everyone's doing well.
And today I'm really excitedbecause I have Karl X Hauser
with me.
Karl is on my roster.
And currently right now you areaware Karl
Karlx (01:37):
San Mateo, California.
Jen Tough (01:39):
Nice.
And is your studio at home?
Karlx (01:43):
Yes, for now, it is probably for the foreseeable
future.
Yeah.
I mean, real estate inCalifornia is just ridiculous.
I've evicted.
I had two studios this year andI was evicted from both of them,
kind of like.
I, I took that to be a veryserious indication that I have
(02:05):
no business at this point,trying to be rent, some other
studio someplace else.
So I'm just confining myself tothe garage and backyard for the
most part.
And it's kind of, I don't know.
It's interesting in the sensethat on the one hand it's really
constrictive and limiting.
(02:28):
But but the flip side of that isI think for my speaking for
myself, a lot of my art artwork,this, some of the better things
that I've done, I think havecome out of being so restricted
and limited as to what I can do.
It's never been a deterrent forme, you know?
(02:48):
Always, you know, when I got outof art school, I, even, when I
was in art school, I knew I hada very tough row to hoe ahead of
me, you know, that it was goingto be really difficult to be an
artist.
Because I knew I wasn't going tomake any money at it, but I
still, that was the thing I wascalled to do.
So, you know, I took jobs mostlydoing trades, working in the
(03:12):
trades, doing constructionbecause it was working with my
hands building things, you know,it was, you know, as Terry Allen
said, it, it ain't art, but itain't bad.
So that's.
Yeah.
And I just kind of thought,well, you know, I just keep
(03:34):
plugging away.
I make art when I can and youknow, no good.
The other upside of that wasthat I had money, so I could
make art.
I had a steady income, was ableto, you know, you know, it was,
it was a good way to, to, to,for me to continue making art.
Jen Tough (03:51):
Yeah.
And that's always the hardestthing, isn't it?
I mean, you get out of schooland you, you know, you have to
find a way of making money thatisn't going to totally destroy
your creativity or burn you outcreatively.
So it sounds like you found agood solution because that's, I
think that's the first problemthat artists run into.
Right?
(04:11):
When you get out of school,you're like the big crushing
issue of making money.
And can I still keep making myart sounds like.
Karlx (04:20):
I had a conversation with a good friend of mine.
And she's we talked about this abit.
When she was first out ofschool, she had a job working at
a photo editing lab or some kindof photo lab where she was
basically looking at images allday.
And she said, I got to a pointwhere I had to quit because I
couldn't, I couldn't look atimages all day and then come
(04:41):
home and work on.
Yeah, just too much.
It was just too.
And that was always a way I feltin some ways, that's the way I
felt about working in thetrades.
You know, it wasn't art, but itwas an activity that I could do.
And it didn't seem to interferewith my art at all.
You know, it was in some ways itkind of augmented it a bit, you
know, it was like, you know,that, that, because when you're
(05:05):
working in the trades, there'salways this strict adherence to
craft.
Right.
And, and for me, when I, when Iwould come home and work on some
sculptures thing, it was alwayslike, Ooh, how crude can I make
this?
You know, it was like, that wasa real important drive for me.
So it was kind of, it was alsokind of a reaction against my,
(05:28):
my regular job, you know, it waskind of like, you know, it's
like, oh yeah, but, but, but theregular job, the working in the
trade.
Also really complimented thisstuff that I was doing because
not only did I want to make itcrude, but it also had to be
well crafted, crudeness the
Jen Tough (05:47):
right amount.
Yeah, totally.
Karlx (05:51):
It's still kind of impresses me to some degree
every once in a while, somebody,somebody will comment on how
well crafted my work looks and Ialways think, wow, really?
Jen Tough (06:05):
Yeah, well, it is well crafted and I, and I
totally know what you mean.
You have like a raw, there's arawness to your work, you know,
and, and you can see the you cansee the intention, but without
it being sort of overworked and,you know, slick, you know,
Karlx (06:20):
Yeah.
I mean, that's pretty much, Ithink that's pretty much what
I'm trying to aim for most ofthe time when I'm, when I'm
working on a piece is, you know,there's other factors that
factor into it.
It's kind of like, I thinksomebody was suddenly on the
artists Alliance group.
I can't remember exactly whatthey said.
They said something about.
(06:41):
I CA I, I should.
I think what I wanted to replyto them was that it's not about,
you know, they were asking if mywork rule was like self
portraits, you know?
And, and, and it's kind of,well, I don't think of them self
portraits so much, but they doexpress things that I feel like
there's a lot of self-expressionin that work.
(07:02):
I think not, not so much about.
It's not a self portrait per se,but you know, it's expressing
something that I'm feeling, Iguess.
Jen Tough (07:13):
So tell me about early days of Karl x
Karlx (07:17):
well, I, I grew up on a farm, very small farm in
Northwestern, Indiana.
And my, my great-grandfather wasthe one who actually worked the
farm.
I know you a draft.
Me and my, my two siblings.
So I got my, I got my startwith, with a hoe at a very young
(07:38):
age.
I always thought, oh, this is soI was driving a tractor when I
was six.
So I thought, well, it wasreally cool when I got to
school, I was thinking, oh, thisis really cool.
I can drive a tractor.
And it turns out, well, I'mgoing to a school in the country
just about every kid can drive atractor now.
So I kind of grew up, my motherwas a self-taught artist.
(08:06):
She didn't really like the ideaof me wanting to paint, even
though that's what she did.
And I wanted to do that too, butshe got she would always
encourage me to draw.
I was pretty good.
I was pretty fast style was apencil and she got me lots of
books.
I'm basically, it was kind of a.
She would, you know, I'd want toknow how to, how to, how to make
(08:27):
things look more realistic thanI was able to.
She would she'd go when shewould go to buy art supplies.
She'd give me a book on like howto draw perspective.
So, so there was a lot of thatkind of back to you know, I had
a lot of that kind of exposuretoo.
And they were really simple,pretty, pretty simple books in a
lot of ways, but you know, justlike, oh yeah, I can do this.
(08:49):
And it was, you know, So therewas a long struggle in art
school, especially not an artschool, but you know, growing up
in school to want to do things,draw things that looked
realistic.
I mean, everybody goes throughthat, I think, regardless of
what you end up finally doing, Ithink we all end up at some
(09:12):
point.
I realize all, I don't have todraw everything realistically,
you know, it can be moreexpressive or it can be more,
this can be abstract.
It can be, you know you know,and it took a long time for me
to, I think when it reallychanged when I got into high
school.
I had a pretty good art schoolor art teacher there.
(09:32):
I got, I just decided I neededto know more about art in
general.
So I would go to the library andcheck out books on art and art
history and kind of did a lotof.
Self-studying that way.
That's how I first found outabout Mark Rothko.
Well, when I was in high schooland I've always been a big fan
of his work, you know, reallyhis paintings are amazing, you
(09:55):
know, especially, I think thefirst time I ever saw a Rothko
was it was the art Institute wasat the art Institute of Chicago.
There was one of his paintingsthere and I was completely
stunned by it.
I was really unprepared for howit would look in.
And that was, that was verysignificant to me to know that,
(10:15):
you know, seeing a reproductionand seeing actual artwork were
completely differentexperiences.
And that really made a hugeimpact on me in that regard.
And I can remember lateractually, when I had the
opportunity to to go to the.
National gallery in DC.
(10:36):
And I, first thing I went tolook for where the Vermeers and
it was the same, same experiencethere.
I mean, I loved looking at theVermeers and reproductions, but
seeing the girl in the red hatwith your own eyes is
incredible.
You know, it's just, you know,reproductions just don't do it,
(10:59):
you know, and plus it's rightthere in front of you when it's,
Jen Tough (11:03):
so is this in high school when you got to do these
trips and you checked out these?
Karlx (11:08):
Yeah, the one I saw where it was in DC, it was when I was
in, I was in art school, highschool, high school was mostly,
you know, trying to go tomuseums.
I think I went to a few artgalleries.
I remember my high school artteacher encouraging me to go see
a.
I think it was a, it was a groupshow and one of the suburban
(11:30):
galleries.
And I was like, oh, this isreally, I was, you know, and it
was kind of more, that was insome ways, a little bit more
interesting to me because it waspeople, they weren't like big
famous artists.
Like they weren't museum people.
They were just people who were.
Like who I am now struggling toget their work out there in
(11:50):
front of eyeballs.
I think that was, that made animpression on me as well.
You know, the fact that therewas an, it was obviously a way
more contemporary than a lot ofthe stuff you would see in a
museum as well.
Jen Tough (12:06):
Right.
Yeah.
And those were the days too.
When I remember when my parents,I grew up in Columbus, Ohio, and
there was an art gallery, notfar from our house.
And they, you know, when theybought their house, when I was
like two or something, they wentto the art gallery to buy art.
You know, it's like such a,yeah.
It's such a different thing thannow.
So anyway, I can see why thatwould have an effect on you
(12:28):
going to that gallery localgallery.
So, so then you went to artschool.
Where did you go for yourundergrad?
Karlx (12:35):
Well at first I didn't at first my father said, you're not
you, you know, he wanted me togo to school to be an engineer.
So he said, no, I'm not going togo to art school.
I'm not going to pay for that.
So I was like, you know, I spenta year working and trying to
(12:55):
save up money.
And I think at that point, butmy father, my father was so
desperate.
Cause I was on the first.
So he was really desperate forsome, for someone, one of his
children to go to go to schooland get a college degree.
And he was so distraught that,especially me, the firstborn, I
(13:17):
was just going to, you know,that my plan was, oh, I'm just
going to work and I'll make art.
And I did that for like a year.
And I realized that the art Iwas making wasn't I wasn't at
all happy with, I didn't knowwhat I was doing.
I wanted to know more.
I had saved up enough money.
My father by that point wasdesperate and he said, here's
(13:39):
what I'll do.
I'll pay for your first semesterof art school.
Great.
And so I did that and once I gotthere, I realized, oh, there's
there's money.
I can get, so I can continue.
And this was in the seventiesand I was going to, I went to
the, I ended up at the Heronschool of art in Indianapolis,
(14:01):
which is part of theIndianapolis Purdue, Indiana
Purdue university atIndianapolis.
This was a private art schoolthat got in, I think, in the
late sixties.
It was bought up by IndianaPurdue university and they, they
have a big con it's basically abig commuter school there in
(14:22):
Indianapolis.
And you know, they have otherschools there and the Heron
school of art is one of those.
And so I ended up there and thetuition was incredibly cheap.
It was, I think, six.
$600 a semester.
Jen Tough (14:37):
Oh my God really was that for like in-state students.
Did they have that kind of deal?
Karlx (14:44):
And it was, and you know, that was something I had
considered it.
When I went to high school, Iwas living in Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania, and I looked atart schools in Pennsylvania.
And even with me, and I onlypaid out of state tuition, I
think for one semester, becauseI had been working in Indiana
and living there independently.
So I was able to, after asemester, Can I get my tuition
(15:08):
cut in half.
And then I was getting at thattime, I think they were called
basic educational opportunitygrant.
There's like a thousand dollarsa year.
I could pay for a year's tuitionand had money left over.
So at a certain point.
(15:28):
Well, I was in art school and Ifell in with a guy who was
opening up a neon shop and hedecided to take me on as an
apprentice for whatever reason.
I'm not sure how I managed thatone, but, you know, I kind of
looked at it and thought, well,this is kind of an opportunity
for me to be able to.
(15:49):
Do stuff with my hands and makemoney.
So you know, I did, I made neonsigns and you know, that, that
was great.
Cause that guy got me into, youknow, for better or for worse
got me into the sign trade.
And you know, I did that forlike almost 20 years.
I think, you know, paid for artschool, paid for graduate
school, paid lot of stuff.
(16:11):
So, you know, and as well as didafford me some opportunities to
make some art.
So the problem I always had withit was people would always want
to call me a neon artist.
And I always know I'm an artist.
I'm not a, you know, I'm usingneon because I have access to
(16:34):
it.
That's it, you know, truth betold when you know, in the early
nineties I had a studio in SanFrancisco whenever I would do
open studios, people would comein, they'd look at them, they'd
look at the neon stuff.
They'd look at my drawings.
And inevitably somebody wouldturn to me and say, so you must
(16:56):
share the studio with somebody.
So, which do you do?
Do you do those the neon or thedrawings?
The drawings were so much moreexpressive.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, because itwas, you know, it was more
spontaneous.
In fact, I always think ofdrawing is a lot of ways, even
though I do finish w you know,it's always a finished piece,
(17:17):
the drawing itself.
I always think of them as, asthese intermediate steps, when I
get, when I'm working onsculpture, it's like, it's kind
of maddening in some ways.
Cause there's some times youjust can't go any further with
it.
You have to wait for things.
And so it would make me kind ofcrazy.
Okay, I'm going to just draw.
So, you know, it was, but it gotto a point for me with the neon,
(17:42):
I realized that a certain pointthat I had to quit doing neon
just as art, because.
Yeah, it was, it wasn't reallyexpressive enough for me.
It wasn't you know, it was, itwas, it was, it was, for me, it
was much too craft oriented andit was what I was always
struggling to get away from.
Was that, that sort of slickcraftiness of, of, of how some
(18:05):
things can be.
And for me, it really inhibitedthe expressiveness of my work.
So, you know, as, as time wentby, I became less and less drawn
to.
To wanting to work with neon.
And, you know, it was, it got toa point where it was like, okay,
I have to figure out how I'mgoing to put the wires in this,
(18:27):
how neon is going to Mount to itand all this stuff.
And I just kind of thought, why,why am I struggling so hard with
this?
Shouldn't be this hard.
Jen Tough (18:36):
I can see how that would be really hard to express
herself because the, the toolsseemed so limited.
You know what I mean?
Like what you can do,
Karlx (18:43):
but there's, but like I say too, there's this, you know,
the limitations also gives yousomething to push up against.
And it felt like in a certainsense that I had kind of pushed
as hard as I can and when, asfar as I could with it, you
know, and also, like I said,people kept calling me a neon
artist and it was making mecrazy.
So
Jen Tough (19:04):
yeah, I can totally see.
And it's kind of like,
Karlx (19:08):
I kind of did I kind of, I liked glasses and material and
I loved working with it.
The sign trades are really, Ithink are a difficult trade to
be in.
There was certainly for me atleast, I mean, I know a lot of
trades people.
I know a lot of.
A lot of other neon artists andthey're doing fantastic and I
(19:29):
applaud them and try to supportthem when I can, because I think
it's a, it's an interestingmedium, or just didn't seem like
it was for me.
So, I mean, I did what I did.
I felt like love the stuff I didwas really pretty good.
So, but that's, I needed to moveon from that.
So,
Jen Tough (19:50):
yeah.
So after you got your BFA, youwent to, did you take some time
off before you got your master'sor did you.
Karlx (19:58):
Went straight ahead and got my MFA.
Cause I just kinda figured well,though, and also the other thing
that that's interesting aboutmy, and this, I think this kind
of is played out throughout mywhole career as an artist, is
that I've always liked.
Playing around with differentmedia.
So when I was also, when I wasin undergraduate school, I was
(20:19):
exposed to a lot of stuff.
I was, I fronted a punk rockband.
I was the guy who was screaming,doing, you know, You know,
jumping around acting weirdwriting lyrics for these songs
and stuff like that.
It was, you know, so there's,there's always been a kind of a
(20:39):
performer part of me.
I think there's always been aperformer who lived in me
sometimes he, he creeps out.
So I'm always tempted insituations like this to, oh, I
should turn this into aperformance.
But I wisely refrained fromthat.
But anyway so I.
(21:01):
I got exposed to video art andundergraduate school as well.
We had no half inch studioequipment, so we didn't have any
PortaPacks we couldn't, which isthe thing I always wanted to do
is like walk around and recordthings.
And we didn't have that ability,but, you know, but it was,
again, it was those limitationspushed up against it's like
something sometimes comes out.
(21:22):
That's really good that, thatlimitation hadn't been there.
Yeah wouldn't have happened, youknow, so, so there was that.
And so when I was applying forgraduate schools you know, one
of the schools I applied to wasthe school, the art Institute of
Chicago.
And I was interested in theirvideo program that they had
there at that time.
It was pretty interesting.
(21:43):
And in the mid to lateseventies, People were doing
lots of stuff with Dan San Deanimage processor, which was, you
could take a black and whitevideo image and colorize it.
It was never really veryrealistic, but you can do other
things.
You can do compositing or whatwe would call Matting.
(22:04):
Now.
Then we called it Matting.
But now it's everybody thinks ofit in terms of composite.
And then you could do stuff likethat.
And it was always.
So, and that also involves someperformance as well.
So it was kind of like, Ithat's, what I ended up doing
was switching from being asculptor, primarily to going in
(22:25):
and getting an MFA and video andperformance art.
So, you know, the whole thing ofgoing to graduate school was I
kind of saw it as an opportunityto be, to get qualified, to
become a teacher and be able toteach.
You know, university or college.
And once I got there and had todo a little bit of it, I
(22:45):
realized I was not going to be avery good art teacher.
Well, I didn't particularly likehaving to do it.
And it was kind of also, therewas nobody there to give you
instructions on how to be ateacher.
Jen Tough (22:59):
Right.
Well, is that, I mean, that'ssort of seems universal for art
school, right?
Like there's not much aboutteaching and the right.
Karlx (23:10):
And then yeah.
And the way I looked at it was Ihad no, my sculpture teacher.
Oh, God, you know, may he restin peace?
He was here at Heron.
He was, he was a wonderful,wonderful man.
And and you know, and I thinkeverybody has at least, at least
(23:33):
one teacher that made a hugedifference, regardless of
wherever they are, whateverthey're doing in life.
There's always, at least oneteacher that was, that was It's
instrumental in getting themmotivated to do things.
And Gary Freeman was one ofthose guys.
He was, he was an amazing, Iremember one point I wasn't
(23:55):
doing, you know, he wasbasically a Foundry guy, which
where I got started with metalcasting and you know, and he.
But I was doing a bunch of workat a particular time where I
didn't have wasn't hardly evergoing into this Foundry to, to
work on things.
I was doing stuff in myapartment and stuff, and he
said, well, I need to see yourwork.
And he came over to theapartment to look at it.
(24:18):
I probably will, you know, beingthe nervous student that I was,
I'd just probably just talkedinsensitive incessantly.
Gary's kind of always very quietand a lot of ways.
And you finally, at one point hesaid, well, you know, I'm not
really sure what to tell youabout what you're doing here,
but, you know, I think you'rereally serious about it.
And I think you should keepdoing it.
(24:39):
It was, you know, like the thingthat, the best thing that
anybody could ever say to anyonein a critique yeah, it's not
wrong.
What you're doing.
I don't understand it.
But you seem to, you seem tohave, you seem to have it,
whatever it is, you seem to haveit and you should continue,
continue doing it.
(25:00):
And, and you know, it was, itwas that.
And also my friend, Sam, whoencouraged me to paint my
sculpture, those two guys werelike, Stellar in a lot of ways.
And it's like, how can I, howcan I even be half as good as
those people?
That was, those were my, mymodels.
And I knew that I couldn't benearly as good as either of
(25:23):
those two people.
So I decided it was probablywise for me to.
Not be a teacher.
So, you know, because we have,we've all had really bad
teachers.
I didn't want to be, I didn'twant to join those people at
(25:44):
all.
So I just kinda thought, youknow, but looking back on it, I
mean, that was my primarymotivation for going to art
school.
But looking back on it now, if Ihad to do it over, knowing what
I know now, I would still go toart school.
I would still do.
Video and performance stuff,even though I don't do, I mean,
I shoot video now and I kind ofplay with it, play around with
(26:04):
the idea of like, oh, maybe Icould turn this into some video
work.
It just, it just it's, it's oneof these things that I'd really
have to change, focus to dothat.
I feel right now, my focus ismostly toward the artwork that
I'm currently working.
I want to continue that with thesculpture and for me, that's,
(26:27):
that's, I really, I'm reallyenjoying where I am right now.
It's been a long time.
I've been making art for, youknow, some, you know, I kind of
considered my.
What is it when I really, when Ifit, I got my MFA in 1981.
So I've been, I figured I'vebeen practicing as a
(26:49):
professional artist for like 40years now.
So, yeah.
And what's interesting to me isthat I feel like now I'm at a
point where it's not effortless,but I certainly don't require
any kind of inspiration.
I just it's I've been doing itfor such a long time.
(27:09):
It just seems to be a naturalact in a way for me, that's
that's exciting enough, youknow, that I can I, knowing that
I can just go out in the garageand pick up a piece of styrofoam
and start carving on it and go,oh yeah, this looks like
something.
Or maybe a carve on it.
And I throw it in a box with theother stuff that I don't know
(27:31):
what I want to do with, but.
It's there, you know, it's kindof how my process works these
days is that I just work onthings.
And at a certain point I'lllook, I'll tell, I'll pick up a
couple of different things andI'll look at them and I'll go,
oh, these need to go together.
And you know, and most of thematerials I'm working with these
(27:52):
days anyway, Mostly free, behonest.
I mean, I pay for, I pay for apox.
I use a lot of uProxy resonantand I pay for that and the
proxy's not cheap, but that's,that's, you know, a gallon of
poxy reservoir.
It lasts a long time for me.
(28:12):
So it's just, but the stuff thatI really use is wire, cardboard,
styrofoam, all of this stuff ispretty much free.
Jen Tough (28:23):
So, what is the, what's the attraction to those
types of materials besides thefree aspect?
Do you, do you like this?
Because they're kind of likehumble and you know, not complex
they're, you know, they're,they're, they're things that
people castaway you know, andyou're making something really
valuable out of, them.
Karlx (28:45):
One of the things that was this goes back to when I was
undergraduate school we did whatwas called direct burnout
styrofoam.
So we would get styrofoamcartons.
Gated.
And then we take it and bury itand sand, and we tamp the sand
sharp sand.
So it would lock, you know, wetamped it, vibrate the sand and
(29:05):
we'd keep heat up a cruciblealuminum pour it.
Right on top of the styrofoam.
Styrofoam just burns outinstantly.
And I'm bumping on stuffs.
We didn't, you know, this was inthe seventies and this is about
the time that.
Material safety data stuffbecame important, more important
than the art world.
Certainly, especially in artschool, we didn't know how toxic
(29:29):
it was to burn styrofoam.
And it smelled bad with a hugeclouds of black smoke.
We were in a Foundry regardlesswhat time of year it was.
We always had the doors open inthe place, but cigarettes smoked
cigarettes.
My instructor smoke cigarettes.
(29:49):
We'd be on pours.
We'd be, you know, usually thecourse took place in the
evening.
So, so we'd all be standingaround smoking and drinking
beer, you know?
Jen Tough (30:00):
Yeah, breathing in all the toxic
Karlx (30:02):
fumes and the worst part was wasn't so much.
I mean, it was bad when we weredoing actual.
But the worst part was probablywhen you were digging it out of
this, where you're digging yourwhen the sculpture was cooling
enough.
You could take it out of thesand because what would happen
is a lot of them really, I thinka lot of the really toxic stuff
stayed in the sand and thenyou'd be digging out your
(30:27):
sculpture from the sand.
You should get hit in the face.
I can remember my eyes tiering.
It was so nasty and you couldn'tsee it.
That was the other thing.
It wasn't like, you know, whenyou poured it, there was big
gusts of black smoke, you know,it's like, we knew that was
probably not good.
(30:47):
The invisible stuff that I kindof feel like, oh, I don't know.
I have some health issues thesedays.
And mostly my immune systemseems to want to kill me most of
the time and I can't help, butwonder did that factor into it
somehow, you know, just one ofthese things, it's like, you
know, I grew up, you know, Ispent nearly 40 years working in
(31:12):
various trades, you know, most,you know, being a carpenter
wasn't too bad.
I was, I always loved the smell.
Of sawdust thought that wasterrific.
It wasn't necessarily toxic.
I mean, carbon carpentry I wasdoing was more rough carpenter.
I did a lot of framing andremodeling and stuff, so it
(31:33):
wasn't so much that we were onwas doing well, you know,
working in a wood shop whereyou're dealing with.
You know, exotic woods hardwoodsand stuff, which can be really
bad for you.
So I saw it as fallout part.
Most of the stuff I was doingwas Redwood.
Probably the worst stuff waspressure treated lumber.
(31:56):
You know, it was supposed tokill things.
Jen Tough (31:58):
Yeah, exactly.
So tell me about why did youmove to California?
Tell me about that journey.
Karlx (32:05):
Well, I've been, I've been in Chicago for awhile after
graduate school and I had had, Iwas doing actually, I was kind
of working in a videopost-production house for a
little while.
It was a not-for-profit placefor independent producers.
Well, I was sort of theirtechnical director there, which
was once it was funny title.
(32:26):
So what I did, but anyway I got,got laid off from that job and I
was working, I was doing some AVstuff for SIGGRAPH, which is a
computer graphics, specialinterest group.
And this would have been in1985.
I worked the contracted me towork for them.
(32:48):
And they were doing theconference in San Francisco at
the Moscone center.
It was my first trip to SanFrancisco.
I had a good friend who was fromalso from the art Institute who
was originally.
I believe he was originally fromSan Rafael and gone to the art
Institute in San Francisco andthen the graduate stuff, school,
the art Institute in Chicago, hewas interested in moving back
(33:09):
south.
That was our plan was we weregoing to, I did the conference,
came back from that, and then Iwas like, I'm ready.
I'm done with.
I live next to an L.
That was okay.
In some ways I needed summers,summers were horrible.
(33:33):
Then I just decided, you know,months later I packed up and I
was out here in San Francisco.
So.
Things changed or quite a bit.
Also my wife, my current, mywife, who I knew who had started
dating before I moved to SanFrancisco, had moved to
(33:54):
Portland, Oregon at the sametime.
So we tried having a longdistance relationship for a
couple of years.
She ended up getting a job inSanta Barbara when I had gone to
visit her.
And she insisted that wecontinue seeing each other, that
we had to be married.
So I kind of, I went along withit.
We'd been married and weactually, it was yesterday was
(34:16):
our 35th wedding anniversary.
So it's been, it's been.
That's been a terrific ride.
There are parts of it that arewhy man, it's like, everybody's
married.
I'm sure.
There's really mostly, I thinkfor me, it's been really
terrific.
I've loved my wife terribly, soit's been really great.
(34:39):
She's been very supportive of myartwork thing.
I love most about that foraspect of supporting my artwork.
Tell me what kind of art Ishould make, but rather what she
does is she gives me ideas abouthow to come up with ideas, much
(34:59):
more ma Metta thing, you know,where it's kind of like lead to
give you ideas, but I'll giveyou ideas about how to have
ideas..
Way more important and orstrategic.
So initially I'm like everybodyelse, I can't do that.
I'm going to resist.
I'm going to resist.
She's right.
(35:20):
I should try this.
Jen Tough (35:22):
Is she a creative person
Karlx (35:24):
too?
She got her MFA at the school ofthe art institute.
I met her actually at the time,the very first time that I met
her, she.
In a relationship with one of myprofessors there to school.
Well, but also by the time, bythe time we connected up, they
(35:48):
had their relationship.
So it wasn't, it wasn't any bigwasn't any big thing about
nobody.
Nobody had a big fallout overany of this stuff.
People were surprised.
Janes 11 years older than me.
And I think that's, that'sprobably the thing that
surprised people more thananything else, our age
(36:08):
difference.
But 35 years later, we're stillhere.
How it's working, you know, it'sit's, it's great.
So I couldn't have asked for abetter partner in this.
Jen Tough (36:24):
Yeah, well, the mess.
What, what has, how has COVIDbeen for you?
Like the whole thing the lastcouple of years, how has that
Karlx (36:34):
good and bad?
Yeah, it's good in the sensethat I'm a shut in anyway.
So it's kind of like, oh, youmean I don't have to go out and
see people problem, but thenalso too, I do, but I do have to
say, I miss going to artopenings.
(36:54):
I missed, you know, like missthat part of it quite a bit.
But the other thing, the otherthing that's good about that as
well, as you know, now thatthere are some openings and
stuff like that, and people arestarting to come out more, you
know, it seems like most of thepeople that I know who are in
the art world more, they're alllike behind it.
I don't think, I don't think Iknow anybody.
(37:15):
Who's really vehemently againstvaccinations.
If they are, they keep it tothemselves in a mask for me.
Cause I have some health issues,especially in guarding my immune
system.
(37:36):
It's really important to methat, that, you know, I haven't
had a cold in two years.
And now cold calls can be justthe worst thing for me.
It's not just, it's, it'sreally, it can be really, really
rough when I, in the past, whenI would start to feel a cold
(37:57):
coming on, I would just stopwhatever I'm doing.
Go home, get into bed and then,you know, get sick.
But hopefully, usually it didn'tseem to be as bad as if I
decided, oh, I'm not reallygetting sick.
And I'm just going to powerthrough.
That was always a real mistakefor me.
So, you know, given the factthat, you know, when the whole
(38:20):
COVID thing started out, Iremember reading an article
written by a woman that had abone marrow transplant and she
was like saying you have, whenyou get a bone marrow
transplant, you end up with noimmune system.
No.
So she talked about the wholewhole hand-washing routine,
(38:40):
which I took very seriously.
If I couldn't remember when Iwashed my hands last, I would
wash my hands.
If I wanted to scratch my face,I would go wash my hands.
First, when you have no immunesystem, you get sick from
things.
If nobody's heard of..
You know, so it was kind of, Itook that part, that aspect of
(39:02):
it I've taken very seriously.
So I'm very, I've washed myhands almost way too much.
Probably.
I don't know.
I don't think you can.
Jen Tough (39:12):
So probably having the studio in the garage at home
is probably then, you know,probably a good thing.
Cause you've got everythinghome.
Karlx (39:26):
To storage spaces.
One, which pretty much containsmy whole sculpture studio as
well as a lot of old, older,large artworks that are just
being stored when it's notshipping container in San
Francisco, where I used to havea studio and I'm still renting
from the same guy who rented me,my studio, which is now in a
(39:48):
shipping container.
But can work there.
The, then I also have anotherstorage space.
It's a little bit closer tohome.
That I pretty much, it's prettymuch storage for my artwork at
this point.
In fact, I think I'm going to bemoving my flat file out of my
garage because it takes up waytoo much space.
Jen Tough (40:09):
Yeah.
Those things are huge.
Karlx (40:11):
And I think I can move that into the storage space with
all my other sculpture andstuff, and I'll know where all
my drawings are.
Stuff like that anywhere.
So and then I'll, that'll giveme a lot more, well, for me, a
lot more workspace now.
Jen Tough (40:26):
Yeah.
So in, in closing up andclosing, what, what are your
goals still?
What do you, what do you likefocusing on right now?
Or where do you want to go stillwith your work with the career?
What do you, what are youthinking.
Karlx (40:47):
I don't really, I've never, I've never really thought
of myself as having, I mean, Ido have an art career, but I
don't think about it that way.
You know, for me is it's artistshaving it's something that I
kinda, I have to do exercises alot of demons..
(41:12):
Through my psyche, which is Ifind to be great relief.
And so I just kind of, I mean, Idon't know, you know, I've got a
solo show coming.
Sometime this year, probablylate summer, early fall.
I've got a solo show is atransmission gallery.
(41:33):
Yes.
I think the Pence gallery isdoing its annual emerging
artists thing.
And I'll try to apply for that.
I do like applying for shows andtrying to get into them.
I'm not really sure how thingsare going to play out.
I mean, just.
You know, I just kind offigured, well, you know, what's
(41:55):
worked.
I always think of you know, I'vealways been, I think I've been a
lucky person in terms of artcareer stuff, and I'm kind of
thinking that's going tocontinue going forward.
And what I mean by lucky is whenit got your can't remember it, I
don't know if it was Seneca whomight've said this, but, you
know, luck is just nothing morethan being prepared.
An.
You know, so it's kind of like,and I remember somebody asked me
(42:18):
once how I got, how I was ableto get representation at
transmission gallery.
And I basically said it wasbasically just luck.
Really.
It was I'd happened to meetBrian Cameron, the, one of the
co-owners of the gallery.
He looked at my work.
He liked it.
He didn't really say much aboutit at all.
(42:38):
And then I kind of went to thegallery a few times, met the
manager there and they said, oh,we have Brian or Cameron talked
to us about, about your work.
W we, we, we really like yourwork.
We'd like to see more of it.
And so, you know, I talked tothem and then they said, we'd
like to offer you a solo showand, and representation.
And that was like, great.
(42:59):
But this guy was when he wasasking me about it.
And I said, you know, basicallythat's what happened.
But part of it was too, I wasreally prepared for that
opportunity.
I have a large body of work,which was exactly, you know,
whether I know how much of itwas really good.
How much is mediocre and howmuch of it was bad?
I don't know.
(43:19):
I don't, I don't make thosejudgements because every time I
think something's really good.
Those are the things that peopleseem to gloss over.
Jen Tough (43:27):
Yeah.
Isn't that weird?
I find that with a lot ofartists.
Karlx (43:31):
And so I just kind of go, well, you know, it is what it
is.
It's like people are going tomake their own decisions about
it.
So basically but that was theopportunity.
That was the opportunity, but Iwas really well-prepared.
I was really well-prepared.
I had a lot of large body ofwork.
In fact, Ruth Santee, the otherowner of the gallery.
(43:51):
First thing that she said to me,she asked me was, are you
prolific?
I don't know.
I don't know how to answer thatquestion because that, that
requires me to compare myself toothers.
And to me that I started to dothat.
Everything just turns to shit,you know?
(44:12):
Just goes to shit.
Cause I had this one friend, Idon't know how she can be as
prolific as she is.
She's just, I I'm in awe of her,you know?
And I there's another sculptor.
I know who's the same way.
And I'm like, how did these, Imean, I know I have a lot of
free time.
I, I was forced into retirementearly because I.
(44:36):
Really bad shoulder and I had tohave it replaced.
And once my shoulder wasreplaced, I wasn't able to do
construction work.
That was it.
So I went on to just, I was ondisability for a number of years
now.
Now I'm just retired.
So, cause I'm old enough to beretired now, but you know, all
of a sudden it was thisopportunity.
(44:57):
It's like, wow, I can make hardfull time.
Now this is this.
Yeah.
So, you know, I still can't keepup with these people and it's
amazing to me.
I mean, so when Ruth asked methat question, I was kind of
taken aback a bit because I'mthinking, I don't know how to
answer that question.
(45:17):
You know, I really don't.
All I know is I just it'sprobably this Midwest.
Work ethic thing.
I just think, you know, you justput your head down and do the
work.
You don't think about it.
You just do the work.
Jen Tough (45:30):
Yeah.
Very, very, yes, it's true.
There's that ethic in theMidwest for sure.
Definitely.
I mean, I can say that frombeing raised in the Midwest,
everyone's just no nonsense, youknow, no nonsense, just
Karlx (45:43):
work I mess around and just do the work.
And I've always felt a reallystrong kinship to the harry who.
Know, you know, from most ofthose people were, have been
students at school, the artInstitute.
So I was like, yeah.
And I felt really close and Ifelt a very close affinity.
Those artists, you know, and arekind of tried to, you know, even
(46:05):
though I was mostly doing, whenI was at the art Institute and
in Chicago, it was mostly doingvideo on performance work.
There was still some kind of,for me, I could.
Sort of kinship there becausemy, my performances were not
really serious.
Lot.
My like my artwork is kind ofthere's there.
You could look at it and you cansee that there's some serious
stuff going on in there, butthere's also a bit of comic
(46:27):
relief, you know, because ifit's too serious, it's
depressing.
Jen Tough (46:34):
It's not fun.
It's not fun to make.
It's
Karlx (46:36):
not fun to me, even though when I'm making a lot of
this stuff, I can feel those alot of depression.
There's this other part of methat has to go, I need some
relief from this, you know?
So what can I do to kind of, infact, that was a criticism.
I got more than a few timesabout some of the videos stuff
(46:57):
that I did when I was ingraduate schools, you know, it's
like, well, this is going alongbeing really sort of serious and
dramatic.
And then you did this.
And it was not, and it was, itwasn't serious anymore.
It's like, can't you ever beserious?
So, yeah, kind of, but that's,that's just how, I mean, so
(47:22):
going forward, that's kind of, Ithink that's kind of where I'm
trying to head is like, how do Ikeep, how do I keep with the
sculpture?
I think, how do I keep.
How do I keep that, that sort oftension going, you know, between
the serious, the serious side ofit on the more goofy side, you
(47:46):
know?
So that, for me, I think that's.
That's pretty much.
I think how I want to thinkabout things going forward is
just trying to figure out moreof that, trying to figure out, I
mean, I'd like doing figurativework.
Trying to figure out differentways of expressing the figure is
(48:07):
a real challenge for me that Ireally kind of like a bit, I
think it's, you know, I look ata lot of outsider art.
It's where I'm really at rightnow, these days looking at
outsider art Just that kind ofstuff is really inspirational to
me because it's like thesepeople, maybe I always also try
(48:28):
to think of my work a little bitas someone's who's who's, you
know, trying to be an outsider,but informed, but being informed
by my art school training.
Right.
So it's kind of like, you know,I understand how color works.
I understand that, you know, forme, the most interesting blacks
(48:48):
are the ones where you don't useblack at all.
When you're mixing colors, it'slike, how can you make black?
I mean, I think it might've beenvan Gogh who had like a whole
huge number of ways of makingblack without using black, you
know?
So the color aspect of it.
It was really important.
(49:09):
Interesting to me.
I just, I, so I don't know whereit's going is your guess is as
good as mine.
I can pretty much say itprobably still be fairly
figurative.
You know, as much as Iappreciate abstract works, I
(49:29):
really like abstract work quitea bit, especially sculpture.
I just don't feel.
Confident or comfortable enoughto do it for myself.
So, you know, I'll stay, youknow, I'll stay the course with
what I'm with what I'm good at,I think, which is my weird
(49:51):
figure figurations and semirealistic.
I don't know how to describe itreally.
You know, it's just, my stuff iskind of.
It's not very realistic, but Iliked the idea that it's looks
somewhat haphazard and some werepoorly formed and put together
(50:12):
strange ways stuff, stuff lookslike it's going to fall over.
I, you know, for me, that's,that's, that's all that tension
in there.
You know, that, that tension iswhat's.
What for me is, what's reallyinteresting, you know, so.
So, yeah, I guess maybe goingforward, I'm going to try to
press that tension is as hard asI push on that as much as I can.
Jen Tough (50:38):
And that's what draws people to the work too.
I think,
Karlx (50:41):
I think so too.
I mean, it's just, you know,it's kind of one dimensional if
there's just, if you only havea, but if you have a and B and
they seem to be opposing a bit,it's like way, way more
interesting, you know, it'slike, why is that there?
How is it.
Really shouldn't be, or, youknow, I don't know.
Jen Tough (51:04):
Yeah, yeah.
Your work.
Definitely.
I can see that in your work forsure.
And, and the, definitely theinspiration as well from you
know, more outsider artists,because that's where that
realness comes in.
You know that raw realness andthen, but then you have the art
school you know, backgroundinforming it, that kind of
education that you can examinethe A and the B right with,
(51:28):
without it losing its you know,appeal it's it's it's realness,
you know, Yeah.
Karlx (51:35):
And the color stuff for me, the thing that I'd like and
most about the work that I'mdoing now for up until just a
few, couple of years ago, I wasdoing a lot of metal casting
because I had access to where Icould, I could do work in a
Foundry.
You can do most of the workyourself.
You save a huge amount of costson labor.
I just recently finished up on acommission that I wasn't able
(51:58):
to.
I basically, all I did was makethe waxes for it.
And I took it to an art, localart Foundry.
They cast it for me.
They have a service called castand blast where they cast the
things that sandblast partsgiven back to you.
And then you get welding andpatination are all lift up to
you.
During that process pretty well.
I think in the future goingforward, what I would like to
(52:19):
try to do if I'm going to bedoing more casting is to be a
little bit more strategic aboutit in some ways, by taking, by
doing small maquettes models,having them scanned in
three-dimension.
Laser scan have the, and then,and then what's nice about that
is you can scale.
(52:39):
It makes it really easy to scaleup.
So that's kind of my, my, mynext project that I would really
like to try to work on.
I'm not sure how I'll get to itfinancially is to, is to take a
small sculpture and get itscanned, blow it up, have it
printed.
(53:00):
Take it to a Foundry and have itcast.
So that would be a really cool,that would be very much fun,
very expensive undertaking, but,you know, so it's something
there that's on the, always onthe back burner, because that's
going to be an easy thing thatfor me to do, to come up with,
come up with a small, smallsculpture.
(53:22):
That'll be, that's like, that's,that'll be a walk in the park,
you know?
So, you know, the thing I likedabout casting and working in a
Foundry was I was kind of freedof, you know, I was allowed to
be able to just.
I would just, I have a hugelibrary of molds.
So I would cast lots of waxesfrom those molds.
(53:44):
And then I would sit around andplay, be like playing with
tinker toys in a way, you know,cut things up, waxes, wonderful
medium to work in.
glue them to solder themtogether, do all kinds of
strange things.
And if I didn't like it couldjust go right back into the wax
pot and melt down and use itover again.
So it's a wonderful process thatpart of it for after that point,
(54:10):
it gets to be real seriouslabor.
Jen Tough (54:13):
Yeah, I can imagine.
Karlx (54:14):
And it's hard work.
There's nothing about wax workis probably the easiest or mold,
some mold, some aspects of moldmaking and the wax work are
probably the easiest things andfoundery, in terms of, of having
to do physical stuff, you know,when you start making ceramic
shells, There's that thenthere's the actual pouring of
(54:36):
the metal.
There's the divesting of theshells.
It gets to be heavy and hot andI kind of feel like I'm so out
of it these days, I have not hadto do physical labor now.
I don't know, seven, eight yearsor something like that.
So I feel like I'm really out ofit.
Jen Tough (54:55):
Yeah.
I bet.
Yeah.
It's definitely a lot of workfor sure.
Well, Karl, thank you so muchfor,
Karlx (55:04):
thank you.
I appreciate this.
This is so great to be able totalk to you and you know, it was
a great opportunity.
So thank you.
I've enjoyed spending the lasthour with you.
It's been really nice and.
Yeah.
I mean, take care and have funand, and we'll chat soon.
All right.
Jen Tough (55:21):
All right.
Karlx (55:21):
Good talking to you.
Jen Tough (55:22):
Thanks Karl.
Thank you so much for listeningand supporting this podcast.
Your support means everything.
If you'd like to learn moreabout the Artist Alliance
community, send me a question orlearn about other events or
projects coming up, please visitmy website at
www.Jentough.gallery.
See you next time.
Welcome to Tough on Art, the podcast for artists
interested in ways to get aheadin today's art market.
I'm Jen Tough owner of Jen ToughGallery and the Artist Alliance
community.
Join me for some down to earth.
Talk about the best ways forartists to navigate this new and
different lands.
Hi everybody.
I'm Jen tough.
And today I'm super excited tobe speaking with bay area
(00:22):
artists, Karl X Hauser, Karlcreates narrative drawings and
sculptures that are quirkyplayful, and always a little bit
dark.
The characters he creates springfrom his imagination and seem to
be up to childlike antics, butalways with a slightly sinister
edge with titles that allude tothese adventures such as head on
(00:43):
wheels, rice cake version.
Describing a beast with threeheads waiting for your turn in
the hole.
That one cracks me up andcarsick his creation, spark,
curiosity, and joy to all lookat it.
He usually works in materials,such as cast metals, kiln formed
glass.
Wire and nails, and he keepsthem in a really raw unpolished
(01:05):
state, the materials, tamper,any overly playful sense of
innocence or purity.
And this contrast really createsa yummy combination of slightly
sinister and sweet andencourages everyone to ponder
and look just a little bit long.
So let's begin and thank you forjoining me.
So hi everybody.
This is Jen Tough.
(01:25):
I hope everyone's doing well.
And today I'm really excitedbecause I have Karl X Hauser
with me.
Karl is on my roster.
And currently right now you areaware Karl
Karlx (01:37):
San Mateo, California.
Jen Tough (01:39):
Nice.
And is your studio at home?
Karlx (01:43):
Yes, for now, it is probably for the foreseeable
future.
Yeah.
I mean, real estate inCalifornia is just ridiculous.
I've evicted.
I had two studios this year andI was evicted from both of them,
kind of like.
I, I took that to be a veryserious indication that I have
(02:05):
no business at this point,trying to be rent, some other
studio someplace else.
So I'm just confining myself tothe garage and backyard for the
most part.
And it's kind of, I don't know.
It's interesting in the sensethat on the one hand it's really
constrictive and limiting.
(02:28):
But but the flip side of that isI think for my speaking for
myself, a lot of my art artwork,this, some of the better things
that I've done, I think havecome out of being so restricted
and limited as to what I can do.
It's never been a deterrent forme, you know?
(02:48):
Always, you know, when I got outof art school, I, even, when I
was in art school, I knew I hada very tough row to hoe ahead of
me, you know, that it was goingto be really difficult to be an
artist.
Because I knew I wasn't going tomake any money at it, but I
still, that was the thing I wascalled to do.
So, you know, I took jobs mostlydoing trades, working in the
(03:12):
trades, doing constructionbecause it was working with my
hands building things, you know,it was, you know, as Terry Allen
said, it, it ain't art, but itain't bad.
So that's.
Yeah.
And I just kind of thought,well, you know, I just keep
(03:34):
plugging away.
I make art when I can and youknow, no good.
The other upside of that wasthat I had money, so I could
make art.
I had a steady income, was ableto, you know, you know, it was,
it was a good way to, to, to,for me to continue making art.
Jen Tough (03:51):
Yeah.
And that's always the hardestthing, isn't it?
I mean, you get out of schooland you, you know, you have to
find a way of making money thatisn't going to totally destroy
your creativity or burn you outcreatively.
So it sounds like you found agood solution because that's, I
think that's the first problemthat artists run into.
Right?
(04:11):
When you get out of school,you're like the big crushing
issue of making money.
And can I still keep making myart sounds like.
Karlx (04:20):
I had a conversation with a good friend of mine.
And she's we talked about this abit.
When she was first out ofschool, she had a job working at
a photo editing lab or some kindof photo lab where she was
basically looking at images allday.
And she said, I got to a pointwhere I had to quit because I
couldn't, I couldn't look atimages all day and then come
(04:41):
home and work on.
Yeah, just too much.
It was just too.
And that was always a way I feltin some ways, that's the way I
felt about working in thetrades.
You know, it wasn't art, but itwas an activity that I could do.
And it didn't seem to interferewith my art at all.
You know, it was in some ways itkind of augmented it a bit, you
know, it was like, you know,that, that, because when you're
(05:05):
working in the trades, there'salways this strict adherence to
craft.
Right.
And, and for me, when I, when Iwould come home and work on some
sculptures thing, it was alwayslike, Ooh, how crude can I make
this?
You know, it was like, that wasa real important drive for me.
So it was kind of, it was alsokind of a reaction against my,
(05:28):
my regular job, you know, it waskind of like, you know, it's
like, oh yeah, but, but, but theregular job, the working in the
trade.
Also really complimented thisstuff that I was doing because
not only did I want to make itcrude, but it also had to be
well crafted, crudeness the
Jen Tough (05:47):
right amount.
Yeah, totally.
Karlx (05:51):
It's still kind of impresses me to some degree
every once in a while, somebody,somebody will comment on how
well crafted my work looks and Ialways think, wow, really?
Jen Tough (06:05):
Yeah, well, it is well crafted and I, and I
totally know what you mean.
You have like a raw, there's arawness to your work, you know,
and, and you can see the you cansee the intention, but without
it being sort of overworked and,you know, slick, you know,
Karlx (06:20):
Yeah.
I mean, that's pretty much, Ithink that's pretty much what
I'm trying to aim for most ofthe time when I'm, when I'm
working on a piece is, you know,there's other factors that
factor into it.
It's kind of like, I thinksomebody was suddenly on the
artists Alliance group.
I can't remember exactly whatthey said.
They said something about.
(06:41):
I CA I, I should.
I think what I wanted to replyto them was that it's not about,
you know, they were asking if mywork rule was like self
portraits, you know?
And, and, and it's kind of,well, I don't think of them self
portraits so much, but they doexpress things that I feel like
there's a lot of self-expressionin that work.
(07:02):
I think not, not so much about.
It's not a self portrait per se,but you know, it's expressing
something that I'm feeling, Iguess.
Jen Tough (07:13):
So tell me about early days of Karl x
Karlx (07:17):
well, I, I grew up on a farm, very small farm in
Northwestern, Indiana.
And my, my great-grandfather wasthe one who actually worked the
farm.
I know you a draft.
Me and my, my two siblings.
So I got my, I got my startwith, with a hoe at a very young
(07:38):
age.
I always thought, oh, this is soI was driving a tractor when I
was six.
So I thought, well, it wasreally cool when I got to
school, I was thinking, oh, thisis really cool.
I can drive a tractor.
And it turns out, well, I'mgoing to a school in the country
just about every kid can drive atractor now.
So I kind of grew up, my motherwas a self-taught artist.
(08:06):
She didn't really like the ideaof me wanting to paint, even
though that's what she did.
And I wanted to do that too, butshe got she would always
encourage me to draw.
I was pretty good.
I was pretty fast style was apencil and she got me lots of
books.
I'm basically, it was kind of a.
She would, you know, I'd want toknow how to, how to, how to make
(08:27):
things look more realistic thanI was able to.
She would she'd go when shewould go to buy art supplies.
She'd give me a book on like howto draw perspective.
So, so there was a lot of thatkind of back to you know, I had
a lot of that kind of exposuretoo.
And they were really simple,pretty, pretty simple books in a
lot of ways, but you know, justlike, oh yeah, I can do this.
(08:49):
And it was, you know, So therewas a long struggle in art
school, especially not an artschool, but you know, growing up
in school to want to do things,draw things that looked
realistic.
I mean, everybody goes throughthat, I think, regardless of
what you end up finally doing, Ithink we all end up at some
(09:12):
point.
I realize all, I don't have todraw everything realistically,
you know, it can be moreexpressive or it can be more,
this can be abstract.
It can be, you know you know,and it took a long time for me
to, I think when it reallychanged when I got into high
school.
I had a pretty good art schoolor art teacher there.
(09:32):
I got, I just decided I neededto know more about art in
general.
So I would go to the library andcheck out books on art and art
history and kind of did a lotof.
Self-studying that way.
That's how I first found outabout Mark Rothko.
Well, when I was in high schooland I've always been a big fan
of his work, you know, reallyhis paintings are amazing, you
(09:55):
know, especially, I think thefirst time I ever saw a Rothko
was it was the art Institute wasat the art Institute of Chicago.
There was one of his paintingsthere and I was completely
stunned by it.
I was really unprepared for howit would look in.
And that was, that was verysignificant to me to know that,
(10:15):
you know, seeing a reproductionand seeing actual artwork were
completely differentexperiences.
And that really made a hugeimpact on me in that regard.
And I can remember lateractually, when I had the
opportunity to to go to the.
National gallery in DC.
(10:36):
And I, first thing I went tolook for where the Vermeers and
it was the same, same experiencethere.
I mean, I loved looking at theVermeers and reproductions, but
seeing the girl in the red hatwith your own eyes is
incredible.
You know, it's just, you know,reproductions just don't do it,
(10:59):
you know, and plus it's rightthere in front of you when it's,
Jen Tough (11:03):
so is this in high school when you got to do these
trips and you checked out these?
Karlx (11:08):
Yeah, the one I saw where it was in DC, it was when I was
in, I was in art school, highschool, high school was mostly,
you know, trying to go tomuseums.
I think I went to a few artgalleries.
I remember my high school artteacher encouraging me to go see
a.
I think it was a, it was a groupshow and one of the suburban
(11:30):
galleries.
And I was like, oh, this isreally, I was, you know, and it
was kind of more, that was insome ways, a little bit more
interesting to me because it waspeople, they weren't like big
famous artists.
Like they weren't museum people.
They were just people who were.
Like who I am now struggling toget their work out there in
(11:50):
front of eyeballs.
I think that was, that made animpression on me as well.
You know, the fact that therewas an, it was obviously a way
more contemporary than a lot ofthe stuff you would see in a
museum as well.
Jen Tough (12:06):
Right.
Yeah.
And those were the days too.
When I remember when my parents,I grew up in Columbus, Ohio, and
there was an art gallery, notfar from our house.
And they, you know, when theybought their house, when I was
like two or something, they wentto the art gallery to buy art.
You know, it's like such a,yeah.
It's such a different thing thannow.
So anyway, I can see why thatwould have an effect on you
(12:28):
going to that gallery localgallery.
So, so then you went to artschool.
Where did you go for yourundergrad?
Karlx (12:35):
Well at first I didn't at first my father said, you're not
you, you know, he wanted me togo to school to be an engineer.
So he said, no, I'm not going togo to art school.
I'm not going to pay for that.
So I was like, you know, I spenta year working and trying to
(12:55):
save up money.
And I think at that point, butmy father, my father was so
desperate.
Cause I was on the first.
So he was really desperate forsome, for someone, one of his
children to go to go to schooland get a college degree.
And he was so distraught that,especially me, the firstborn, I
(13:17):
was just going to, you know,that my plan was, oh, I'm just
going to work and I'll make art.
And I did that for like a year.
And I realized that the art Iwas making wasn't I wasn't at
all happy with, I didn't knowwhat I was doing.
I wanted to know more.
I had saved up enough money.
My father by that point wasdesperate and he said, here's
(13:39):
what I'll do.
I'll pay for your first semesterof art school.
Great.
And so I did that and once I gotthere, I realized, oh, there's
there's money.
I can get, so I can continue.
And this was in the seventiesand I was going to, I went to
the, I ended up at the Heronschool of art in Indianapolis,
(14:01):
which is part of theIndianapolis Purdue, Indiana
Purdue university atIndianapolis.
This was a private art schoolthat got in, I think, in the
late sixties.
It was bought up by IndianaPurdue university and they, they
have a big con it's basically abig commuter school there in
(14:22):
Indianapolis.
And you know, they have otherschools there and the Heron
school of art is one of those.
And so I ended up there and thetuition was incredibly cheap.
It was, I think, six.
$600 a semester.
Jen Tough (14:37):
Oh my God really was that for like in-state students.
Did they have that kind of deal?
Karlx (14:44):
And it was, and you know, that was something I had
considered it.
When I went to high school, Iwas living in Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania, and I looked atart schools in Pennsylvania.
And even with me, and I onlypaid out of state tuition, I
think for one semester, becauseI had been working in Indiana
and living there independently.
So I was able to, after asemester, Can I get my tuition
(15:08):
cut in half.
And then I was getting at thattime, I think they were called
basic educational opportunitygrant.
There's like a thousand dollarsa year.
I could pay for a year's tuitionand had money left over.
So at a certain point.
(15:28):
Well, I was in art school and Ifell in with a guy who was
opening up a neon shop and hedecided to take me on as an
apprentice for whatever reason.
I'm not sure how I managed thatone, but, you know, I kind of
looked at it and thought, well,this is kind of an opportunity
for me to be able to.
(15:49):
Do stuff with my hands and makemoney.
So you know, I did, I made neonsigns and you know, that, that
was great.
Cause that guy got me into, youknow, for better or for worse
got me into the sign trade.
And you know, I did that forlike almost 20 years.
I think, you know, paid for artschool, paid for graduate
school, paid lot of stuff.
(16:11):
So, you know, and as well as didafford me some opportunities to
make some art.
So the problem I always had withit was people would always want
to call me a neon artist.
And I always know I'm an artist.
I'm not a, you know, I'm usingneon because I have access to
(16:34):
it.
That's it, you know, truth betold when you know, in the early
nineties I had a studio in SanFrancisco whenever I would do
open studios, people would comein, they'd look at them, they'd
look at the neon stuff.
They'd look at my drawings.
And inevitably somebody wouldturn to me and say, so you must
(16:56):
share the studio with somebody.
So, which do you do?
Do you do those the neon or thedrawings?
The drawings were so much moreexpressive.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, because itwas, you know, it was more
spontaneous.
In fact, I always think ofdrawing is a lot of ways, even
though I do finish w you know,it's always a finished piece,
(17:17):
the drawing itself.
I always think of them as, asthese intermediate steps, when I
get, when I'm working onsculpture, it's like, it's kind
of maddening in some ways.
Cause there's some times youjust can't go any further with
it.
You have to wait for things.
And so it would make me kind ofcrazy.
Okay, I'm going to just draw.
So, you know, it was, but it gotto a point for me with the neon,
(17:42):
I realized that a certain pointthat I had to quit doing neon
just as art, because.
Yeah, it was, it wasn't reallyexpressive enough for me.
It wasn't you know, it was, itwas, it was, it was, for me, it
was much too craft oriented andit was what I was always
struggling to get away from.
Was that, that sort of slickcraftiness of, of, of how some
(18:05):
things can be.
And for me, it really inhibitedthe expressiveness of my work.
So, you know, as, as time wentby, I became less and less drawn
to.
To wanting to work with neon.
And, you know, it was, it got toa point where it was like, okay,
I have to figure out how I'mgoing to put the wires in this,
(18:27):
how neon is going to Mount to itand all this stuff.
And I just kind of thought, why,why am I struggling so hard with
this?
Shouldn't be this hard.
Jen Tough (18:36):
I can see how that would be really hard to express
herself because the, the toolsseemed so limited.
You know what I mean?
Like what you can do,
Karlx (18:43):
but there's, but like I say too, there's this, you know,
the limitations also gives yousomething to push up against.
And it felt like in a certainsense that I had kind of pushed
as hard as I can and when, asfar as I could with it, you
know, and also, like I said,people kept calling me a neon
artist and it was making mecrazy.
So
Jen Tough (19:04):
yeah, I can totally see.
And it's kind of like,
Karlx (19:08):
I kind of did I kind of, I liked glasses and material and
I loved working with it.
The sign trades are really, Ithink are a difficult trade to
be in.
There was certainly for me atleast, I mean, I know a lot of
trades people.
I know a lot of.
A lot of other neon artists andthey're doing fantastic and I
(19:29):
applaud them and try to supportthem when I can, because I think
it's a, it's an interestingmedium, or just didn't seem like
it was for me.
So, I mean, I did what I did.
I felt like love the stuff I didwas really pretty good.
So, but that's, I needed to moveon from that.
So,
Jen Tough (19:50):
yeah.
So after you got your BFA, youwent to, did you take some time
off before you got your master'sor did you.
Karlx (19:58):
Went straight ahead and got my MFA.
Cause I just kinda figured well,though, and also the other thing
that that's interesting aboutmy, and this, I think this kind
of is played out throughout mywhole career as an artist, is
that I've always liked.
Playing around with differentmedia.
So when I was also, when I wasin undergraduate school, I was
(20:19):
exposed to a lot of stuff.
I was, I fronted a punk rockband.
I was the guy who was screaming,doing, you know, You know,
jumping around acting weirdwriting lyrics for these songs
and stuff like that.
It was, you know, so there's,there's always been a kind of a
(20:39):
performer part of me.
I think there's always been aperformer who lived in me
sometimes he, he creeps out.
So I'm always tempted insituations like this to, oh, I
should turn this into aperformance.
But I wisely refrained fromthat.
But anyway so I.
(21:01):
I got exposed to video art andundergraduate school as well.
We had no half inch studioequipment, so we didn't have any
PortaPacks we couldn't, which isthe thing I always wanted to do
is like walk around and recordthings.
And we didn't have that ability,but, you know, but it was,
again, it was those limitationspushed up against it's like
something sometimes comes out.
(21:22):
That's really good that, thatlimitation hadn't been there.
Yeah wouldn't have happened, youknow, so, so there was that.
And so when I was applying forgraduate schools you know, one
of the schools I applied to wasthe school, the art Institute of
Chicago.
And I was interested in theirvideo program that they had
there at that time.
It was pretty interesting.
(21:43):
And in the mid to lateseventies, People were doing
lots of stuff with Dan San Deanimage processor, which was, you
could take a black and whitevideo image and colorize it.
It was never really veryrealistic, but you can do other
things.
You can do compositing or whatwe would call Matting.
(22:04):
Now.
Then we called it Matting.
But now it's everybody thinks ofit in terms of composite.
And then you could do stuff likethat.
And it was always.
So, and that also involves someperformance as well.
So it was kind of like, Ithat's, what I ended up doing
was switching from being asculptor, primarily to going in
(22:25):
and getting an MFA and video andperformance art.
So, you know, the whole thing ofgoing to graduate school was I
kind of saw it as an opportunityto be, to get qualified, to
become a teacher and be able toteach.
You know, university or college.
And once I got there and had todo a little bit of it, I
(22:45):
realized I was not going to be avery good art teacher.
Well, I didn't particularly likehaving to do it.
And it was kind of also, therewas nobody there to give you
instructions on how to be ateacher.
Jen Tough (22:59):
Right.
Well, is that, I mean, that'ssort of seems universal for art
school, right?
Like there's not much aboutteaching and the right.
Karlx (23:10):
And then yeah.
And the way I looked at it was Ihad no, my sculpture teacher.
Oh, God, you know, may he restin peace?
He was here at Heron.
He was, he was a wonderful,wonderful man.
And and you know, and I thinkeverybody has at least, at least
(23:33):
one teacher that made a hugedifference, regardless of
wherever they are, whateverthey're doing in life.
There's always, at least oneteacher that was, that was It's
instrumental in getting themmotivated to do things.
And Gary Freeman was one ofthose guys.
He was, he was an amazing, Iremember one point I wasn't
(23:55):
doing, you know, he wasbasically a Foundry guy, which
where I got started with metalcasting and you know, and he.
But I was doing a bunch of workat a particular time where I
didn't have wasn't hardly evergoing into this Foundry to, to
work on things.
I was doing stuff in myapartment and stuff, and he
said, well, I need to see yourwork.
And he came over to theapartment to look at it.
(24:18):
I probably will, you know, beingthe nervous student that I was,
I'd just probably just talkedinsensitive incessantly.
Gary's kind of always very quietand a lot of ways.
And you finally, at one point hesaid, well, you know, I'm not
really sure what to tell youabout what you're doing here,
but, you know, I think you'rereally serious about it.
And I think you should keepdoing it.
(24:39):
It was, you know, like the thingthat, the best thing that
anybody could ever say to anyonein a critique yeah, it's not
wrong.
What you're doing.
I don't understand it.
But you seem to, you seem tohave, you seem to have it,
whatever it is, you seem to haveit and you should continue,
continue doing it.
(25:00):
And, and you know, it was, itwas that.
And also my friend, Sam, whoencouraged me to paint my
sculpture, those two guys werelike, Stellar in a lot of ways.
And it's like, how can I, howcan I even be half as good as
those people?
That was, those were my, mymodels.
And I knew that I couldn't benearly as good as either of
(25:23):
those two people.
So I decided it was probablywise for me to.
Not be a teacher.
So, you know, because we have,we've all had really bad
teachers.
I didn't want to be, I didn'twant to join those people at
(25:44):
all.
So I just kinda thought, youknow, but looking back on it, I
mean, that was my primarymotivation for going to art
school.
But looking back on it now, if Ihad to do it over, knowing what
I know now, I would still go toart school.
I would still do.
Video and performance stuff,even though I don't do, I mean,
I shoot video now and I kind ofplay with it, play around with
(26:04):
the idea of like, oh, maybe Icould turn this into some video
work.
It just, it just it's, it's oneof these things that I'd really
have to change, focus to dothat.
I feel right now, my focus ismostly toward the artwork that
I'm currently working.
I want to continue that with thesculpture and for me, that's,
(26:27):
that's, I really, I'm reallyenjoying where I am right now.
It's been a long time.
I've been making art for, youknow, some, you know, I kind of
considered my.
What is it when I really, when Ifit, I got my MFA in 1981.
So I've been, I figured I'vebeen practicing as a
(26:49):
professional artist for like 40years now.
So, yeah.
And what's interesting to me isthat I feel like now I'm at a
point where it's not effortless,but I certainly don't require
any kind of inspiration.
I just it's I've been doing itfor such a long time.
(27:09):
It just seems to be a naturalact in a way for me, that's
that's exciting enough, youknow, that I can I, knowing that
I can just go out in the garageand pick up a piece of styrofoam
and start carving on it and go,oh yeah, this looks like
something.
Or maybe a carve on it.
And I throw it in a box with theother stuff that I don't know
(27:31):
what I want to do with, but.
It's there, you know, it's kindof how my process works these
days is that I just work onthings.
And at a certain point I'lllook, I'll tell, I'll pick up a
couple of different things andI'll look at them and I'll go,
oh, these need to go together.
And you know, and most of thematerials I'm working with these
(27:52):
days anyway, Mostly free, behonest.
I mean, I pay for, I pay for apox.
I use a lot of uProxy resonantand I pay for that and the
proxy's not cheap, but that's,that's, you know, a gallon of
poxy reservoir.
It lasts a long time for me.
(28:12):
So it's just, but the stuff thatI really use is wire, cardboard,
styrofoam, all of this stuff ispretty much free.
Jen Tough (28:23):
So, what is the, what's the attraction to those
types of materials besides thefree aspect?
Do you, do you like this?
Because they're kind of likehumble and you know, not complex
they're, you know, they're,they're, they're things that
people castaway you know, andyou're making something really
valuable out of, them.
Karlx (28:45):
One of the things that was this goes back to when I was
undergraduate school we did whatwas called direct burnout
styrofoam.
So we would get styrofoamcartons.
Gated.
And then we take it and bury itand sand, and we tamp the sand
sharp sand.
So it would lock, you know, wetamped it, vibrate the sand and
(29:05):
we'd keep heat up a cruciblealuminum pour it.
Right on top of the styrofoam.
Styrofoam just burns outinstantly.
And I'm bumping on stuffs.
We didn't, you know, this was inthe seventies and this is about
the time that.
Material safety data stuffbecame important, more important
than the art world.
Certainly, especially in artschool, we didn't know how toxic
(29:29):
it was to burn styrofoam.
And it smelled bad with a hugeclouds of black smoke.
We were in a Foundry regardlesswhat time of year it was.
We always had the doors open inthe place, but cigarettes smoked
cigarettes.
My instructor smoke cigarettes.
(29:49):
We'd be on pours.
We'd be, you know, usually thecourse took place in the
evening.
So, so we'd all be standingaround smoking and drinking
beer, you know?
Jen Tough (30:00):
Yeah, breathing in all the toxic
Karlx (30:02):
fumes and the worst part was wasn't so much.
I mean, it was bad when we weredoing actual.
But the worst part was probablywhen you were digging it out of
this, where you're digging yourwhen the sculpture was cooling
enough.
You could take it out of thesand because what would happen
is a lot of them really, I thinka lot of the really toxic stuff
stayed in the sand and thenyou'd be digging out your
(30:27):
sculpture from the sand.
You should get hit in the face.
I can remember my eyes tiering.
It was so nasty and you couldn'tsee it.
That was the other thing.
It wasn't like, you know, whenyou poured it, there was big
gusts of black smoke, you know,it's like, we knew that was
probably not good.
(30:47):
The invisible stuff that I kindof feel like, oh, I don't know.
I have some health issues thesedays.
And mostly my immune systemseems to want to kill me most of
the time and I can't help, butwonder did that factor into it
somehow, you know, just one ofthese things, it's like, you
know, I grew up, you know, Ispent nearly 40 years working in
(31:12):
various trades, you know, most,you know, being a carpenter
wasn't too bad.
I was, I always loved the smell.
Of sawdust thought that wasterrific.
It wasn't necessarily toxic.
I mean, carbon carpentry I wasdoing was more rough carpenter.
I did a lot of framing andremodeling and stuff, so it
(31:33):
wasn't so much that we were onwas doing well, you know,
working in a wood shop whereyou're dealing with.
You know, exotic woods hardwoodsand stuff, which can be really
bad for you.
So I saw it as fallout part.
Most of the stuff I was doingwas Redwood.
Probably the worst stuff waspressure treated lumber.
(31:56):
You know, it was supposed tokill things.
Jen Tough (31:58):
Yeah, exactly.
So tell me about why did youmove to California?
Tell me about that journey.
Karlx (32:05):
Well, I've been, I've been in Chicago for awhile after
graduate school and I had had, Iwas doing actually, I was kind
of working in a videopost-production house for a
little while.
It was a not-for-profit placefor independent producers.
Well, I was sort of theirtechnical director there, which
was once it was funny title.
(32:26):
So what I did, but anyway I got,got laid off from that job and I
was working, I was doing some AVstuff for SIGGRAPH, which is a
computer graphics, specialinterest group.
And this would have been in1985.
I worked the contracted me towork for them.
(32:48):
And they were doing theconference in San Francisco at
the Moscone center.
It was my first trip to SanFrancisco.
I had a good friend who was fromalso from the art Institute who
was originally.
I believe he was originally fromSan Rafael and gone to the art
Institute in San Francisco andthen the graduate stuff, school,
the art Institute in Chicago, hewas interested in moving back
(33:09):
south.
That was our plan was we weregoing to, I did the conference,
came back from that, and then Iwas like, I'm ready.
I'm done with.
I live next to an L.
That was okay.
In some ways I needed summers,summers were horrible.
(33:33):
Then I just decided, you know,months later I packed up and I
was out here in San Francisco.
So.
Things changed or quite a bit.
Also my wife, my current, mywife, who I knew who had started
dating before I moved to SanFrancisco, had moved to
(33:54):
Portland, Oregon at the sametime.
So we tried having a longdistance relationship for a
couple of years.
She ended up getting a job inSanta Barbara when I had gone to
visit her.
And she insisted that wecontinue seeing each other, that
we had to be married.
So I kind of, I went along withit.
We'd been married and weactually, it was yesterday was
(34:16):
our 35th wedding anniversary.
So it's been, it's been.
That's been a terrific ride.
There are parts of it that arewhy man, it's like, everybody's
married.
I'm sure.
There's really mostly, I thinkfor me, it's been really
terrific.
I've loved my wife terribly, soit's been really great.
(34:39):
She's been very supportive of myartwork thing.
I love most about that foraspect of supporting my artwork.
Tell me what kind of art Ishould make, but rather what she
does is she gives me ideas abouthow to come up with ideas, much
(34:59):
more ma Metta thing, you know,where it's kind of like lead to
give you ideas, but I'll giveyou ideas about how to have
ideas..
Way more important and orstrategic.
So initially I'm like everybodyelse, I can't do that.
I'm going to resist.
I'm going to resist.
She's right.
(35:20):
I should try this.
Jen Tough (35:22):
Is she a creative person
Karlx (35:24):
too?
She got her MFA at the school ofthe art institute.
I met her actually at the time,the very first time that I met
her, she.
In a relationship with one of myprofessors there to school.
Well, but also by the time, bythe time we connected up, they
(35:48):
had their relationship.
So it wasn't, it wasn't any bigwasn't any big thing about
nobody.
Nobody had a big fallout overany of this stuff.
People were surprised.
Janes 11 years older than me.
And I think that's, that'sprobably the thing that
surprised people more thananything else, our age
(36:08):
difference.
But 35 years later, we're stillhere.
How it's working, you know, it'sit's, it's great.
So I couldn't have asked for abetter partner in this.
Jen Tough (36:24):
Yeah, well, the mess.
What, what has, how has COVIDbeen for you?
Like the whole thing the lastcouple of years, how has that
Karlx (36:34):
good and bad?
Yeah, it's good in the sensethat I'm a shut in anyway.
So it's kind of like, oh, youmean I don't have to go out and
see people problem, but thenalso too, I do, but I do have to
say, I miss going to artopenings.
(36:54):
I missed, you know, like missthat part of it quite a bit.
But the other thing, the otherthing that's good about that as
well, as you know, now thatthere are some openings and
stuff like that, and people arestarting to come out more, you
know, it seems like most of thepeople that I know who are in
the art world more, they're alllike behind it.
I don't think, I don't think Iknow anybody.
(37:15):
Who's really vehemently againstvaccinations.
If they are, they keep it tothemselves in a mask for me.
Cause I have some health issues,especially in guarding my immune
system.
(37:36):
It's really important to methat, that, you know, I haven't
had a cold in two years.
And now cold calls can be justthe worst thing for me.
It's not just, it's, it'sreally, it can be really, really
rough when I, in the past, whenI would start to feel a cold
(37:57):
coming on, I would just stopwhatever I'm doing.
Go home, get into bed and then,you know, get sick.
But hopefully, usually it didn'tseem to be as bad as if I
decided, oh, I'm not reallygetting sick.
And I'm just going to powerthrough.
That was always a real mistakefor me.
So, you know, given the factthat, you know, when the whole
(38:20):
COVID thing started out, Iremember reading an article
written by a woman that had abone marrow transplant and she
was like saying you have, whenyou get a bone marrow
transplant, you end up with noimmune system.
No.
So she talked about the wholewhole hand-washing routine,
(38:40):
which I took very seriously.
If I couldn't remember when Iwashed my hands last, I would
wash my hands.
If I wanted to scratch my face,I would go wash my hands.
First, when you have no immunesystem, you get sick from
things.
If nobody's heard of..
You know, so it was kind of, Itook that part, that aspect of
(39:02):
it I've taken very seriously.
So I'm very, I've washed myhands almost way too much.
Probably.
I don't know.
I don't think you can.
Jen Tough (39:12):
So probably having the studio in the garage at home
is probably then, you know,probably a good thing.
Cause you've got everythinghome.
Karlx (39:26):
To storage spaces.
One, which pretty much containsmy whole sculpture studio as
well as a lot of old, older,large artworks that are just
being stored when it's notshipping container in San
Francisco, where I used to havea studio and I'm still renting
from the same guy who rented me,my studio, which is now in a
(39:48):
shipping container.
But can work there.
The, then I also have anotherstorage space.
It's a little bit closer tohome.
That I pretty much, it's prettymuch storage for my artwork at
this point.
In fact, I think I'm going to bemoving my flat file out of my
garage because it takes up waytoo much space.
Jen Tough (40:09):
Yeah.
Those things are huge.
Karlx (40:11):
And I think I can move that into the storage space with
all my other sculpture andstuff, and I'll know where all
my drawings are.
Stuff like that anywhere.
So and then I'll, that'll giveme a lot more, well, for me, a
lot more workspace now.
Jen Tough (40:26):
Yeah.
So in, in closing up andclosing, what, what are your
goals still?
What do you, what do you likefocusing on right now?
Or where do you want to go stillwith your work with the career?
What do you, what are youthinking.
Karlx (40:47):
I don't really, I've never, I've never really thought
of myself as having, I mean, Ido have an art career, but I
don't think about it that way.
You know, for me is it's artistshaving it's something that I
kinda, I have to do exercises alot of demons..
(41:12):
Through my psyche, which is Ifind to be great relief.
And so I just kind of, I mean, Idon't know, you know, I've got a
solo show coming.
Sometime this year, probablylate summer, early fall.
I've got a solo show is atransmission gallery.
(41:33):
Yes.
I think the Pence gallery isdoing its annual emerging
artists thing.
And I'll try to apply for that.
I do like applying for shows andtrying to get into them.
I'm not really sure how thingsare going to play out.
I mean, just.
You know, I just kind offigured, well, you know, what's
(41:55):
worked.
I always think of you know, I'vealways been, I think I've been a
lucky person in terms of artcareer stuff, and I'm kind of
thinking that's going tocontinue going forward.
And what I mean by lucky is whenit got your can't remember it, I
don't know if it was Seneca whomight've said this, but, you
know, luck is just nothing morethan being prepared.
An.
You know, so it's kind of like,and I remember somebody asked me
(42:18):
once how I got, how I was ableto get representation at
transmission gallery.
And I basically said it wasbasically just luck.
Really.
It was I'd happened to meetBrian Cameron, the, one of the
co-owners of the gallery.
He looked at my work.
He liked it.
He didn't really say much aboutit at all.
(42:38):
And then I kind of went to thegallery a few times, met the
manager there and they said, oh,we have Brian or Cameron talked
to us about, about your work.
W we, we, we really like yourwork.
We'd like to see more of it.
And so, you know, I talked tothem and then they said, we'd
like to offer you a solo showand, and representation.
And that was like, great.
(42:59):
But this guy was when he wasasking me about it.
And I said, you know, basicallythat's what happened.
But part of it was too, I wasreally prepared for that
opportunity.
I have a large body of work,which was exactly, you know,
whether I know how much of itwas really good.
How much is mediocre and howmuch of it was bad?
I don't know.
(43:19):
I don't, I don't make thosejudgements because every time I
think something's really good.
Those are the things that peopleseem to gloss over.
Jen Tough (43:27):
Yeah.
Isn't that weird?
I find that with a lot ofartists.
Karlx (43:31):
And so I just kind of go, well, you know, it is what it
is.
It's like people are going tomake their own decisions about
it.
So basically but that was theopportunity.
That was the opportunity, but Iwas really well-prepared.
I was really well-prepared.
I had a lot of large body ofwork.
In fact, Ruth Santee, the otherowner of the gallery.
(43:51):
First thing that she said to me,she asked me was, are you
prolific?
I don't know.
I don't know how to answer thatquestion because that, that
requires me to compare myself toothers.
And to me that I started to dothat.
Everything just turns to shit,you know?
(44:12):
Just goes to shit.
Cause I had this one friend, Idon't know how she can be as
prolific as she is.
She's just, I I'm in awe of her,you know?
And I there's another sculptor.
I know who's the same way.
And I'm like, how did these, Imean, I know I have a lot of
free time.
I, I was forced into retirementearly because I.
(44:36):
Really bad shoulder and I had tohave it replaced.
And once my shoulder wasreplaced, I wasn't able to do
construction work.
That was it.
So I went on to just, I was ondisability for a number of years
now.
Now I'm just retired.
So, cause I'm old enough to beretired now, but you know, all
of a sudden it was thisopportunity.
(44:57):
It's like, wow, I can make hardfull time.
Now this is this.
Yeah.
So, you know, I still can't keepup with these people and it's
amazing to me.
I mean, so when Ruth asked methat question, I was kind of
taken aback a bit because I'mthinking, I don't know how to
answer that question.
(45:17):
You know, I really don't.
All I know is I just it'sprobably this Midwest.
Work ethic thing.
I just think, you know, you justput your head down and do the
work.
You don't think about it.
You just do the work.
Jen Tough (45:30):
Yeah.
Very, very, yes, it's true.
There's that ethic in theMidwest for sure.
Definitely.
I mean, I can say that frombeing raised in the Midwest,
everyone's just no nonsense, youknow, no nonsense, just
Karlx (45:43):
work I mess around and just do the work.
And I've always felt a reallystrong kinship to the harry who.
Know, you know, from most ofthose people were, have been
students at school, the artInstitute.
So I was like, yeah.
And I felt really close and Ifelt a very close affinity.
Those artists, you know, and arekind of tried to, you know, even
(46:05):
though I was mostly doing, whenI was at the art Institute and
in Chicago, it was mostly doingvideo on performance work.
There was still some kind of,for me, I could.
Sort of kinship there becausemy, my performances were not
really serious.
Lot.
My like my artwork is kind ofthere's there.
You could look at it and you cansee that there's some serious
stuff going on in there, butthere's also a bit of comic
(46:27):
relief, you know, because ifit's too serious, it's
depressing.
Jen Tough (46:34):
It's not fun.
It's not fun to make.
It's
Karlx (46:36):
not fun to me, even though when I'm making a lot of
this stuff, I can feel those alot of depression.
There's this other part of methat has to go, I need some
relief from this, you know?
So what can I do to kind of, infact, that was a criticism.
I got more than a few timesabout some of the videos stuff
(46:57):
that I did when I was ingraduate schools, you know, it's
like, well, this is going alongbeing really sort of serious and
dramatic.
And then you did this.
And it was not, and it was, itwasn't serious anymore.
It's like, can't you ever beserious?
So, yeah, kind of, but that's,that's just how, I mean, so
(47:22):
going forward, that's kind of, Ithink that's kind of where I'm
trying to head is like, how do Ikeep, how do I keep with the
sculpture?
I think, how do I keep.
How do I keep that, that sort oftension going, you know, between
the serious, the serious side ofit on the more goofy side, you
(47:46):
know?
So that, for me, I think that's.
That's pretty much.
I think how I want to thinkabout things going forward is
just trying to figure out moreof that, trying to figure out, I
mean, I'd like doing figurativework.
Trying to figure out differentways of expressing the figure is
(48:07):
a real challenge for me that Ireally kind of like a bit, I
think it's, you know, I look ata lot of outsider art.
It's where I'm really at rightnow, these days looking at
outsider art Just that kind ofstuff is really inspirational to
me because it's like thesepeople, maybe I always also try
(48:28):
to think of my work a little bitas someone's who's who's, you
know, trying to be an outsider,but informed, but being informed
by my art school training.
Right.
So it's kind of like, you know,I understand how color works.
I understand that, you know, forme, the most interesting blacks
(48:48):
are the ones where you don't useblack at all.
When you're mixing colors, it'slike, how can you make black?
I mean, I think it might've beenvan Gogh who had like a whole
huge number of ways of makingblack without using black, you
know?
So the color aspect of it.
It was really important.
(49:09):
Interesting to me.
I just, I, so I don't know whereit's going is your guess is as
good as mine.
I can pretty much say itprobably still be fairly
figurative.
You know, as much as Iappreciate abstract works, I
(49:29):
really like abstract work quitea bit, especially sculpture.
I just don't feel.
Confident or comfortable enoughto do it for myself.
So, you know, I'll stay, youknow, I'll stay the course with
what I'm with what I'm good at,I think, which is my weird
(49:51):
figure figurations and semirealistic.
I don't know how to describe itreally.
You know, it's just, my stuff iskind of.
It's not very realistic, but Iliked the idea that it's looks
somewhat haphazard and some werepoorly formed and put together
(50:12):
strange ways stuff, stuff lookslike it's going to fall over.
I, you know, for me, that's,that's, that's all that tension
in there.
You know, that, that tension iswhat's.
What for me is, what's reallyinteresting, you know, so.
So, yeah, I guess maybe goingforward, I'm going to try to
press that tension is as hard asI push on that as much as I can.
Jen Tough (50:38):
And that's what draws people to the work too.
I think,
Karlx (50:41):
I think so too.
I mean, it's just, you know,it's kind of one dimensional if
there's just, if you only havea, but if you have a and B and
they seem to be opposing a bit,it's like way, way more
interesting, you know, it'slike, why is that there?
How is it.
Really shouldn't be, or, youknow, I don't know.
Jen Tough (51:04):
Yeah, yeah.
Your work.
Definitely.
I can see that in your work forsure.
And, and the, definitely theinspiration as well from you
know, more outsider artists,because that's where that
realness comes in.
You know that raw realness andthen, but then you have the art
school you know, backgroundinforming it, that kind of
education that you can examinethe A and the B right with,
(51:28):
without it losing its you know,appeal it's it's it's realness,
you know, Yeah.
Karlx (51:35):
And the color stuff for me, the thing that I'd like and
most about the work that I'mdoing now for up until just a
few, couple of years ago, I wasdoing a lot of metal casting
because I had access to where Icould, I could do work in a
Foundry.
You can do most of the workyourself.
You save a huge amount of costson labor.
I just recently finished up on acommission that I wasn't able
(51:58):
to.
I basically, all I did was makethe waxes for it.
And I took it to an art, localart Foundry.
They cast it for me.
They have a service called castand blast where they cast the
things that sandblast partsgiven back to you.
And then you get welding andpatination are all lift up to
you.
During that process pretty well.
I think in the future goingforward, what I would like to
(52:19):
try to do if I'm going to bedoing more casting is to be a
little bit more strategic aboutit in some ways, by taking, by
doing small maquettes models,having them scanned in
three-dimension.
Laser scan have the, and then,and then what's nice about that
is you can scale.
(52:39):
It makes it really easy to scaleup.
So that's kind of my, my, mynext project that I would really
like to try to work on.
I'm not sure how I'll get to itfinancially is to, is to take a
small sculpture and get itscanned, blow it up, have it
printed.
(53:00):
Take it to a Foundry and have itcast.
So that would be a really cool,that would be very much fun,
very expensive undertaking, but,you know, so it's something
there that's on the, always onthe back burner, because that's
going to be an easy thing thatfor me to do, to come up with,
come up with a small, smallsculpture.
(53:22):
That'll be, that's like, that's,that'll be a walk in the park,
you know?
So, you know, the thing I likedabout casting and working in a
Foundry was I was kind of freedof, you know, I was allowed to
be able to just.
I would just, I have a hugelibrary of molds.
So I would cast lots of waxesfrom those molds.
(53:44):
And then I would sit around andplay, be like playing with
tinker toys in a way, you know,cut things up, waxes, wonderful
medium to work in.
glue them to solder themtogether, do all kinds of
strange things.
And if I didn't like it couldjust go right back into the wax
pot and melt down and use itover again.
So it's a wonderful process thatpart of it for after that point,
(54:10):
it gets to be real seriouslabor.
Jen Tough (54:13):
Yeah, I can imagine.
Karlx (54:14):
And it's hard work.
There's nothing about wax workis probably the easiest or mold,
some mold, some aspects of moldmaking and the wax work are
probably the easiest things andfoundery, in terms of, of having
to do physical stuff, you know,when you start making ceramic
shells, There's that thenthere's the actual pouring of
(54:36):
the metal.
There's the divesting of theshells.
It gets to be heavy and hot andI kind of feel like I'm so out
of it these days, I have not hadto do physical labor now.
I don't know, seven, eight yearsor something like that.
So I feel like I'm really out ofit.
Jen Tough (54:55):
Yeah.
I bet.
Yeah.
It's definitely a lot of workfor sure.
Well, Karl, thank you so muchfor,
Karlx (55:04):
thank you.
I appreciate this.
This is so great to be able totalk to you and you know, it was
a great opportunity.
So thank you.
I've enjoyed spending the lasthour with you.
It's been really nice and.
Yeah.
I mean, take care and have funand, and we'll chat soon.
All right.
Jen Tough (55:21):
All right.
Karlx (55:21):
Good talking to you.
Jen Tough (55:22):
Thanks Karl.
Thank you so much for listeningand supporting this podcast.
Your support means everything.
If you'd like to learn moreabout the Artist Alliance
community, send me a question orlearn about other events or
projects coming up, please visitmy website at
www.Jentough.gallery.
See you next time.
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