October 28, 2025 • 58 mins
Ever notice how a viral post can jump from your screen to your doorstep? We take you inside a series of jaw-dropping cases to map the blurry boundary between calling someone out and putting them in danger. From the Sniper Wolf vs Jack Films feud that moved from YouTube to a front porch, to a therapist’s flippant “trauma dump” TikTok that shattered trust, to a guy livestreaming smug politics in a company shirt and then blaming “the internet” for his firing—this episode pulls apart what counts as doxing, what counts as accountability, and why intent matters less than foreseeable harm.
As clinicians and creators, we unpack why geolocation breadcrumbs are scarier than you think, how parasocial fandoms escalate conflict, and what responsible exposure looks like when someone’s conduct is truly harmful. We also tackle the “fuck around and win” economy—where racist or fascist statements turn into lucrative crowdfunding—and offer clear tactics to avoid accidentally boosting bad actors. You’ll hear practical guidance: how to keep your home private, when to use HR, licensing boards, or law enforcement instead of your feed, and how to speak up without handing a mob a target.
The goal isn’t silence; it’s smarter guardrails. We argue for firm accountability that names behavior and cites sources, without publishing addresses or phone numbers that enable harassment. If you’ve ever wondered where your line is between necessary exposure and reckless doxing, this conversation gives you a workable test and a toolkit you can use today.
If this resonated, tap follow, share it with a friend who posts online, and leave a quick review—what’s your rule for calling someone out without crossing the line?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Hi, and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people to theirsimplest ingredients.
I'm your host, ChristopherPatchett, LCSW.
SPEAKER_02 (00:11):
And I'm Lindsay McLean.
SPEAKER_01 (00:15):
Miss Lindsay.
Today you texted me and you toldme that you were gonna be a
little late to the recording,and now I'm pissed.
I am furious.
And I am now gonna tell theentire podcast world to get on
(00:38):
your shit.
SPEAKER_04 (00:39):
What?
SPEAKER_01 (00:40):
I am gonna give out all of your social media, your
phone number, and where youlive.
SPEAKER_02 (00:47):
Don't you dox me?
Don't you fucking do it?
Don't you fucking do it?
I'll dox you right back.
I know how this works.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
So today's episode is about doxing.
SPEAKER_02 (01:06):
Ooh.
Yeah, that's pretty toxic.
SPEAKER_01 (01:10):
Yeah.
If you don't know what doxingis, doxing is basically when it
could be either a disagreementor somebody doesn't like your
views, or somebody doesn't it isjust hates you in in one form or
another.
SPEAKER_03 (01:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:31):
And gives out the person's address, their where
they work, or their their realnames, or or whoever, like gives
it out to Yeah, it's anypublicly identifiable
information about the person, Ithink.
SPEAKER_01 (01:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:47):
So you could you know be watching a video and be
like, that's ChristopherPatchett.
And that would technically beconsidered doxing.
Or it's I'm mad at my professor,so I Googled them and here's
their phone number.
SPEAKER_01 (02:03):
Yep.
Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
SPEAKER_02 (02:06):
Woo!
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
So I I kind of want to start off.
I'm gonna I'm gonna go down acouple stories here.
And one you might actually know.
Well, I I know that you knowprobably a couple of these at
least.
SPEAKER_02 (02:24):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
But I'm curious if you know SS Sniper Wolf.
SPEAKER_02 (02:29):
No, that doesn't sound familiar.
SPEAKER_01 (02:32):
Okay, how the fuck do I know this and you don't?
Like this is coming from thesame person who gave me shit for
not knowing uh uh PewDiePie.
SPEAKER_02 (02:41):
I you know what the best part was I was just
thinking of that example.
SPEAKER_01 (02:48):
Oh fucking fuck fuck.
SS Sniper Wolf, capital SCapital S Sniper Wolf.
It is sexy sexy sniper wolf.
Oh okay her real name is Ala SheLish and she does she started
(03:13):
off back in like 2012.
She was doing basically likeCall of Duty and things like
that, so she was like an onlinegamer, and she would uh go on
YouTube, and then when Twitchbecame popular, she started
gaming on that, and slowly shewent from an online gamer to
(03:38):
doing online content, onlinecontent with YouTube, and then
it was basically like reactionvideos.
SPEAKER_02 (03:50):
I yes, uh which um funnily enough, we will be
talking about next week.
Oh boy, yeah, you started downthis, and I was like, damn,
okay.
This now I don't have to talkabout some of this stuff in
mind.
SPEAKER_01 (04:08):
So so she got she got called out by this guy, he
does Jack Films, and his name isJack Douglas, so he would just
he started doing like callingSniper Wolf out on like
different things that she wasstealing content from other
people.
(04:28):
So I mean she would even go asfar as even the thumbnail clip
and the person beforehand wouldhave like a certain thumbnail
clip, and she would copy it likeexact.
SPEAKER_02 (04:42):
Oh wow, so like not even trying to hide or being
able like I just use this forinspiration.
SPEAKER_01 (04:47):
Yeah, exactly.
Like it was I it was it wasexact, and and the thing was is
that she got caught out for it,and then she would try to go off
about how oh no no no no, thisperson copied me, and it went
back and forth between Jack andSniper Wolf.
And so Jack actually did aseparate channel just really
(05:12):
targeting Sniper Wolf, where itwas JJ Jack Films.
SPEAKER_02 (05:17):
Nice.
SPEAKER_01 (05:21):
He would just he would start doing full videos of
showing the the differentthumbnails, the different
content that she was doing, evenlike going into like the
reaction videos, and it wasbasically it was reaction videos
where it wasn't even reactionvideos, it would just be like
(05:41):
30-second TikTok video, and herjust being like, Oh damn, wow.
SPEAKER_02 (05:49):
Oh, it's like the lowest of low quality reaction
videos where they're not evenadding anything useful to the
debate.
Heavy quotation marks here.
SPEAKER_01 (06:03):
So he started calling her out and really just
kind of like pressing into her,and so she she kept on fighting
about like how that her reactionvideos had something to it,
which if you really do watch hervideos, it is just yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (06:24):
He actually watch them after this.
SPEAKER_01 (06:28):
He actually did a bingo card uh of her reaction
videos where it would be likesomething along the lines of her
yelling about this and hersaying, oh wow, and her saying
don't do that, and he actuallywas able to fill out the uh the
form.
SPEAKER_02 (06:47):
That's never a good thing.
SPEAKER_01 (06:51):
So yeah, she she got pissed off because a lot of
people were getting on her assabout it, and so what better way
to get her or get Jack Filmsback than going to his house?
SS Sniper Wolf, she had 34million followers on YouTube.
Okay, and so I I don't knowexactly how many on Instagram,
(07:14):
but considering the fact that 34million on YouTube, I would
imagine that there was in themillions.
SPEAKER_02 (07:21):
Yeah, yeah, she clearly has a pretty solid
following or did at the time,right?
SPEAKER_01 (07:28):
She she went to his house, she filmed his house, and
she's she's live streaming it,and she's going out to his door,
she's knocking on his door andsaying, I want to talk to you,
you better come out and talk tome, blah blah blah, and she's
banging on his door andeverything like that.
SPEAKER_02 (07:47):
Very adult.
SPEAKER_01 (07:51):
So he ended up calling the police, and I don't
know if she got arrested or orif she was just told to go home,
but either which way, his housewas on video.
She she was filming leading outto his house, and and we've
talked about this before, wherethe the one guy who's able to
(08:14):
find where you are, you know,with people's permissions.
SPEAKER_02 (08:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:19):
And so like he'll do something where somebody will
send him a 15-second clip andsay, like, hey, guess where I
am, and just kind of like goback and forth and show like
their their their surrounding.
SPEAKER_02 (08:33):
Well, they're pretty amazing because sometimes they
even are just like in a randomparking lot and they're you know
moving the phone around.
They're like, Yeah, you know, Ihope that guy can figure out
where I am because I don't knowwhere I am.
And he he does.
He's like, Yep, you're righthere.
I can tell based on like thethis thing, the that thing, the
this sign, the angle of the sun.
It's pretty fantastic to watchhim work.
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
It is, it's it's actually it's it's fascinating,
but at the same time, it's alsocreepy as hell.
SPEAKER_02 (09:01):
It is.
I respect that he does it withpermission, but the problem is
is that then it puts this ideaout there for other people to
see, and they're like, Oh, Icould do that without
permission.
Hey.
SPEAKER_01 (09:25):
That himself and his wife are now worried about
people coming over because ofthis girl who is filming his
house, and there are people outthere that they're able to find
out their information and andliterally just be like, okay,
you know what?
Fuck it.
(09:45):
You know, like I I'm worshipingthe sniper wolf, and I I I I got
her back, and and I'm gonna gothere and do whatever.
SPEAKER_02 (09:55):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (09:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:57):
Yeah, now this information is like way easily
available for them because shewas filming.
I mean, she had to do some workto find it, but I think at this
point, you as a crazed followercould be mildly creepy and
figure it out, and then be supercreepy and actually use that
information.
SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
Yeah, it's I mean, for her, it probably wasn't all
that hard because I I'm surethat you know the YouTube
community has their their owncircle.
Mm-hmm.
And just finding out fromfriends of a friend or whatever,
and so she was able to probablyfind out like fairly easily, but
(10:36):
now she's posting on or she wasposted on her Instagram the the
whole video of her going up andbanging on this guy's door.
unknown (10:46):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
And the way that he actually found out about it was
that before she actually knockedon his door, he was streaming on
YouTube, and all of a sudden,like people were like writing in
saying, like, yo, dude, likeSniper Wolf is coming after you,
like she's posting, like can youimagine that?
SPEAKER_02 (11:08):
Like, you're in the middle of your job, and then
people are pinging you, like,somebody's coming to your house.
SPEAKER_01 (11:15):
Yeah, that that that's fucking crazy.
SPEAKER_02 (11:17):
Like, I mean, I'm glad people let him know, but
God, that's creepy.
SPEAKER_01 (11:23):
Yeah, yeah.
He's like, Oh shit, like, youknow, like should I stop or or
what's going on?
Like, how bad is it?
And people are like, Yeah, youknow, she's she's saying that
she's gonna like bang on yourdoor and all this.
So he literally had to stop hisdreaming and try to figure out
what the hell's going on.
SPEAKER_02 (11:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:43):
And when she's getting up to his door, like
knocking on the door, obviouslyhe's not gonna go outside and be
like, Oh, yes, let's have areasonable conversation here.
SPEAKER_02 (11:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because everyone's clearly in areasonable mood and doing
reasonable adult activitiesright now.
SPEAKER_01 (12:00):
So, yeah, I mean, he he's posted up online that he
didn't feel safe, that his hishis wife didn't feel safe there
anymore.
So I don't know if he moved orif he's still living there, and
because this happened back in2023.
SPEAKER_03 (12:18):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (12:18):
So I don't know if he moved or or what happened,
but but yeah, I mean, he was hesaid a couple times that he just
didn't feel safe at homeanymore.
SPEAKER_02 (12:27):
Uh rightly so, yeah.
God.
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
It doesn't just have to be like you know, like
doxing, just as we were kind ofsaying, it doesn't just have to
be like giving out addresses oranything like that.
I I think in that case, withwith Jack Douglas, uh, yes, that
was definitely going way toofar.
But some of these other ones area little bit more questionable
(12:55):
of how far is too far.
And we'll kind of go into thatlike when when we come into like
where do we go from here?
unknown (13:03):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (13:04):
But I'm sure I I know for a fact you've
definitely heard this becauseI'm sure I've talked about this
with you before.
So, a therapist by the nameEileen Glantz, she had a
business called PsyquestTherapy.
SPEAKER_02 (13:19):
This does sound familiar, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (13:22):
And and so she did this uh TikTok video, and it was
the soundtrack of you know, HolySpirit, you know, pray for me,
Holy Spirit, pray for me.
And and the caption was when aclient trauma dumps on the first
session.
SPEAKER_02 (13:40):
Ah, joyful.
Yes, this this does soundfamiliar with us talking about
like maybe not the type of thingwe should be putting online.
SPEAKER_01 (13:53):
Yeah, I mean, that's well, so first off, I mean, not
not just only not the thing thatyou should be putting up online,
but not the thing that if you'rea therapist that you should even
be thinking.
SPEAKER_02 (14:08):
No, and you can be you can be a little frustrated
and a little bit exasperatedthat you're like, okay, that was
our first session, and I got allthis information.
But if your reaction is thisstrong, then maybe this is not
the profession for you.
(14:29):
Because I would imagine thatthat's not a bizarre or uncommon
occurrence that you have peoplewho come and on their first
session, they're just like withall of this stuff.
It's like, oh my god, slow down.
Please one thing at a time,that's so I can help you.
SPEAKER_01 (14:46):
You gotta figure that a lot of so one of the
biggest things with therapy isis the fact that a lot of people
just they're not being hurt.
And now they're coming to aperson where they feel safe,
that they feel like, okay, youknow what, I've been bottling
this shit up for like years.
And and especially like I I workas a trauma therapist, so I
(15:10):
mean, you know, you're you'retalking about like especially
when I was working withveterans, you're talking about
people who've been holding uptrauma for 10, 15, 20 years.
SPEAKER_03 (15:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:22):
And finally coming to a place where they're like,
okay, thank God I can finallylike let it all out.
And you know, they they'vethey've never gone through
therapy before.
You know, they they they don'tknow what you know.
A lot of times I I can't tellyou how many times where I've
met somebody for the first timeand they'll say something along
(15:43):
the lines of, hey, this is thefirst time of doing therapy,
like I don't even know where tobegin.
SPEAKER_03 (15:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:48):
So, you know, some people like don't they'll just
kind of be like, I don't evenknow where to begin.
Some people they'll come in andthey'll just be like, Okay,
here's the past 20 years of mylife, uh, and I just need to get
the fuck out.
And you know, as far as like uhme being a therapist, like yes,
(16:09):
I I I'm supposed to ask aboutyour background, I'm supposed to
ask about like your parents, I'msupposed to act about ask about
you growing up.
Do you do drugs?
Do you do you know, like, etc.,etc.?
But you know, there are timeswhere the the sessions can go
off course.
And you know, I'm not gonna sitthere, especially if somebody
(16:32):
does have that 20 years pinnedup trauma, to be like, yeah,
look, that's great andeverything, but let's get back
to your parents, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:44):
Not not helpful, right?
You let it go, you see where itgoes, and then you know, maybe
next session we kind of uh workoff of that, or maybe slip in
some more other questions.
It's fine.
SPEAKER_01 (16:59):
Yeah, I I mean there were times where I might have to
extend the first session to likethree or four.
And just just because again, I Iwant the person to be able to
have that place to come to thatthey're able to let things off
their chest, and uh at the sametime, like these are things that
(17:19):
yes, we're gonna go over at somepoint, but you know, again, if
you've been holding it in for15, 20 years or more, then you
know, it's it's it's it's a bombthat's going off.
And good.
You know, I'd rather you I'drather that bomb to be going off
in front of me than coming outin anger on the streets.
SPEAKER_02 (17:44):
No, and exactly, and at least this way it may give
you some ideas about things tobe like, okay, we're just gonna
let you keep going for now, butmaking a big star next to this
point that like we need to comeback to this at some point, type
thing, and giving them that safespace to be like, okay, I can
just talk through my feelingsand talk through this, and
(18:04):
there's no one interrupting mewith questions or trying to
snare me someplace I can justwork through it mentally and get
it off my chest.
SPEAKER_01 (18:12):
Yeah, it it's and and so tick tock people are
using it.
Two things I I kind of think ofis this person thrown out there
about you know, like when a whena client trauma dumps on the
first session, one what ifthat's one of her or what if her
(18:32):
client who did that actually sawthat?
SPEAKER_02 (18:36):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (18:39):
And then two, like therapy is is still like a very,
very semi-taboo thing.
So it's not nearly what it wasbefore, but it is still nowhere
near what it where it should be.
You know, I mean, we we'vetalked about this before of like
how back in the 90s, if somebodywent into therapy, it was like,
(19:00):
oh shit, what the fuck do theydo?
unknown (19:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:04):
Versus where nowadays people are just kind of
like, oh yeah, you know, Italked to my therapist about
blah blah blah.
But it is still on that verge ofbecoming more normalized.
So you have half the people whoare very open and like, yeah,
you know, I'm going to therapy,blah, blah, blah.
And there's some people who arelike, man, I don't want to be
(19:25):
seen as being fucked up.
I'm gonna keep that to myself.
And then they see this andthey're like, ooh, maybe like
I'm being judged at my session.
SPEAKER_02 (19:41):
Yeah, I think you have to know that depending on
your profession, like there aresome professions where you could
absolutely make fun of yourclient like that.
And I don't think it would be abig problem where you know, if
you're doing design, you're youknow, creative designer, you
design logos, and you make onelike, you know, when you meet
(20:04):
the client for the first timeand like they have too many
ideas and you're making fun ofthem for that.
That, you know, we can all lookat that and be like, ah, that's
fine.
This is funny, ha ha ha.
But you have to understand whenyou're working with something
serious like this, that this isa population that does need to
be protected a little bit, andthere are a few more, you know,
(20:26):
rules about what we do and don'ttalk about online.
I would be mortified if I foundout that my therapist had done
this.
Even if it wasn't about me.
Even if I just, you know, lookedup this therapist and I was
like, you know, I know that I'mseeing them and I know I didn't
trauma dump, but I saw thisvideo, I would be mortified.
(20:50):
It's like, what else are youmaking videos about?
SPEAKER_01 (20:53):
Yeah, yeah.
It's yeah, it it's it's you'reyou're you're pushing away a
large population, not just yourown clients, but anybody who's
seen this.
SPEAKER_02 (21:04):
Yeah.
And for what, a few laughs?
It's not that funny.
Like in this sense, again, theperson designing logos, we can
laugh at that, but this thisversion is not laughing.
Nobody's laughing at that, orshould be.
SPEAKER_01 (21:20):
Right.
So, you know, and and actually,myself included on this one,
there was a bunch of therapiststhat were like, hey, look, you
know, like this is a safe placethat you know we're not here
judging you.
So a lot of us we had to go outthere and and basically damage
(21:40):
control, yeah, putting out thefire that this person created.
And so a lot of people calledher out.
That her business, because itwas an LLC side quest therapy,
and so she got she got calledout.
She had to take or she deletedher TikTok account.
(22:02):
Apparently, her her business shehad to leave that.
Now, I did when I was doingresearch, I still saw her that
she is still doing therapy, butshe doesn't have like a TikTok
account or anything like that.
So hopefully she learned to shutthe fuck up.
(22:23):
And actually, maybe this mighthave been something to have
corrected her.
SPEAKER_02 (22:30):
I'd like to hope so that this was a learning
opportunity, as opposed to nowshe's running around bitter and
is like, ah, I got canceled onthe internet because people
don't, you know, nobody can takea laugh these days.
SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
Right, right.
And and I I I I hope so as well.
Which actually, I I love thatthat you you said that because
you're the next person that Iwant to talk about.
Uh oh.
This is another TikTok video.
And right now in the UnitedStates, yeah, people are very,
(23:11):
very, very divided of where weare politically.
And one of the things that thathas been kind of a hot topic
here lately is immigration, ice,and everything like that.
There is a TikToker.
I was trying to find this guy'sname.
(23:31):
I know I saw you knoworiginally, and this was one of
the things that that made mewant to look into doxing.
But I could I couldn't find itagain.
He does have another TikTok.
We'll go into that in a second,but his TikTok TikTok name was
Try Again Liberals.
SPEAKER_02 (23:53):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (23:55):
And so what he did is he posted that he was in a
Mexican restaurant, and he said,Guess what?
And like all whispering, guesswhat?
I'm in a Mexican restaurant,salsa and chips.
All right, liberals freaked out.
(24:18):
So he he's basically because allof his all of his content is of
how ICE is doing a great job andhow he wants to see more people
deport it.
SPEAKER_02 (24:29):
And ah, okay, and here he is, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
So he's kind of doing the whole like ha ha ha,
look at me, I'm in a Mexicanrestaurant.
Uh, even though I want to seeeverybody in this restaurant
deport it, is stupid.
You know, you you you're you'rebeing a fucking dumbass, and and
and dumbasses again do dumbassthings.
(24:55):
One of the beautiful things wasis that apparently he went into
this restaurant, probably rightaround the time that he got off
work or something, because hewas wearing the company shirt.
And even better to find out thatthe company is owned by his
brother.
(25:16):
And when people saw this, theystarted calling up the company,
they started showing you knowthe company owner of like this
video, start doxing the thecompany, like you know, like one
star, blah blah blah, this,that, and the other.
So you were saying a little bitearlier, like hopefully, with
(25:38):
the the therapist that hopefullythis was like a lesson learned
that we were kind of sayingabout hopefully this is one of
those things where she goesaround and says about how like
maybe I probably shouldn't saythings like that, and is now
being decent therapist at thevery least.
(25:59):
So this guy that I was justsaying about, where he had
posted on he was at a Mexicanrestaurant, even though he wants
to see half the or you know,half the staff report it.
This so he lost his job, andhere is his response.
SPEAKER_00 (26:18):
You know, I can't believe this fucking happened.
You fucking people messaging myfreaking employer, calling him
Well, you finally did it.
You got me fired.
Don't you feel good aboutyourself?
No, me and my pregnant wife.
I don't know what we're gonnado.
We lost our medical We losteverything because you disagree
(26:41):
with me.
Fuck you.
SPEAKER_02 (26:46):
I'm gonna disagree with him on that one and be like
you did this to yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (26:50):
Yeah, you know, uh so this is the thing that that
that really makes me laugh isthat you know, you did this to
me because you disagreed withme.
SPEAKER_02 (26:59):
I mean, I understand that yes, this probably does
count as doxing because youfound this information that is
publicly available.
But I also think that if you'regoing to fuck around, don't be
surprised when you find out.
And if you have made a name foryourself making really hateful
(27:20):
videos on anything, and you havea recognizable face and you go
out in public wearing yourcompany's branded clothing, it's
the same way that, like, youknow, Nike or whoever will pull
a sponsorship from somebodywho's acting crazy because
(27:40):
they're like, yo, we don't wantto be associated with that.
Because all everyone else seesis hey, there's somebody in a
McDonald's uniform acting thefuck up.
What's going on here?
And people will focus, peoplewill notice a McDonald's
uniform, and McDonald's doesn'twant to be connected with that,
and so they're gonna say no,bye.
(28:00):
That's the that's the same thingas Nike, and that's the same
thing that's happened here, isthat you are giving your
employer potential bad publicitybecause you've made hateful
videos.
So, yeah, there there areconsequences to to doing that.
SPEAKER_01 (28:14):
And the thing is, is that okay, let's just say that
in his puny little mind thatthis is not a thing of hate,
that this is you know the theAmerican, you know, blah blah
blah bullshit.
Yeah, okay, fine, you're allowedto have that opinion.
(28:37):
And the thing is, okay, I don'tlike cats.
SPEAKER_02 (28:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:44):
Now I can go off and make videos about how dogs are
better than cats, that I'm not acat fan, that dog everybody
should have dogs, and catsshouldn't be in anybody's home.
But you know, there is a linethere, you know, like if if I
(29:08):
was supporting, you know, uhkill shelters.
SPEAKER_02 (29:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:12):
Or yeah, you know, like uh things like that, or or
kind of going off about howdoing doing harmful things to
cats.
SPEAKER_02 (29:22):
Yeah, laughing at videos of dogs attacking cats or
things like that, and postingthat publicly for people to see
with your face attached to it.
You're allowed to have thosebeliefs, and I'm allowed to not
support you.
And as your employer, I'mallowed to say that's not
something I want people toassociate my company with.
SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
Right.
And and the thing is, is like,you know, as long as I keep it
within a certain boundary, likeagain, posting videos about dogs
and how much I love dogs, andsaying that this is why dogs are
better than cats.
I'm not gonna lose my business.
I'm not going to get fired.
SPEAKER_02 (30:05):
No, because if you were reasonable, even if
somebody was like, you manster,and tried to report you to your
company, A, self-employed, butyou want to speak to the
manager, they're right here.
But you know, if you wereworking for somebody, that's the
type of thing that you couldvery easily be like, oh no, I
can show you my videos that Imake.
I can show you right here thistype of thing because you know
(30:28):
that there is nothing wrong thatyou have said.
And I would imagine that whathappened here was yes, that
video was not offensive, butclearly people went and reported
it, and clearly it came up thatthere were other videos that
were potentially really, reallyoffensive.
And so, yeah, I'm sure hisemployer was like, you know, I
don't think this is working.
SPEAKER_01 (30:48):
Right.
So, so it's not nobody got himfired except for himself.
SPEAKER_02 (30:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
He could have gone off about how much he supports
Trump and ICE and everythinglike that, and it would have
been fine.
But the fact that he wanted togo that extra step and really
just kind of rub it intopeople's faces.
SPEAKER_02 (31:12):
Yeah.
Like it's also, and you neverknow, and we're we'll we'll talk
about this next week.
Instead of at some point in thefuture, haha, I have a date for
it.
For once.
SPEAKER_01 (31:23):
I was gonna say, I I love the fact that it's actually
like next week instead of we'reone of these days we have to.
SPEAKER_02 (31:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you know, you never know whois actually seeing that.
It could have literally been hisemployer who stumbled across it.
No, I don't think so in thiscase, but you don't know.
It might not even be thatsomebody reports you, it might
be that your employer realizesyou are doing something that is
against company policy, that isharmful to the company's image,
(31:51):
is just plain stupid while againwearing company clothing or
repping the company brand in oneway or another.
It could be them, just on theirown, who's like, wait a second.
SPEAKER_01 (32:06):
So final thing I kind of want to go on is fuck
around and get rewarded.
SPEAKER_02 (32:14):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01 (32:16):
I know I know for a fact that you've heard this one,
Kyle Vertonhouse.
SPEAKER_02 (32:21):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
Okay, just to just to kind of give a brief story
for people who don't remember orname doesn't sound familiar or
whatever.
Basically, during the whole2020, Black Life Matters,
protest, and things like that.
Some of them did get violent,yes.
So, what this kid did, he was 17at the time and went into a
(32:48):
city, I think drove for or hadhis mom drive him for three
hours to the city with anassault rifle and basically put
himself into a predicament wherehe knew he was going to get
attacked and shot somebody.
Uh so okay.
(33:09):
Whether or not you agree ordisagree with the Second
Amendment, stand your ground,and everything like that, it was
still stupid.
It was dumb as fuck.
SPEAKER_02 (33:19):
It was because he intentionally put himself in
that situation, and there'sobviously a huge difference
between I have ended up in thissituation that I did not want to
be in, and I did everything toavoid, and I see no other
option, and so I shoot you.
And somebody who specificallyseeks out that space to create
(33:43):
that problem, and then be like,Oh no, guess I have to shoot
you.
SPEAKER_01 (33:51):
So he put him in put himself in that position and
ended up killing somebody andwhen all or the this mean
headline news, and he set up agive send go, which is basically
(34:11):
a go fund me.
That that's veryChristian-based.
SPEAKER_02 (34:19):
Yes, because he has definitely lived a very
Christian life by doing this.
SPEAKER_01 (34:24):
Right, right.
And and you know, I this this isnot the podcast for this, but
Christian nationalists is athing.
SPEAKER_02 (34:35):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
So the people who are going to go to a give send
go are going to definitely beslightly to the right.
SPEAKER_02 (34:49):
Just a little.
SPEAKER_01 (34:51):
Just a little.
And so he raised five hundredand eighty-four thousand dollars
for uh lawyer fees andeverything like that.
Going even better.
Like, okay, so let's say withwith Kyle, we are able to say
(35:16):
that okay, he was justpracticing his second amendment.
SPEAKER_03 (35:20):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01 (35:21):
That okay, you know what?
Fine.
If you want to think that way,fine, whatever.
So looking at Shiloh Hendricks,this happened back in June of
this year.
She was she was recorded by thiskid's father, who apparently
(35:44):
what had happened was thislittle five-year-old went into
her diaper bag and and tooksomething of her kids.
Okay.
Kid is five years old.
SPEAKER_02 (35:55):
Doesn't know what she doesn't understand the
concept of stealing necessarilyyet.
SPEAKER_01 (36:02):
So she turned around, she called him the the
N-word.
SPEAKER_02 (36:06):
Oh.
SPEAKER_01 (36:07):
Okay.
So this kid's father picked uphis phone and followed her and
said, you know, like, why thefuck would you say something
like that?
You know, like, uh, and she'slike, oh, you know, he he went
in my bag and blah blah blah.
He's like, does that does thatconstitute for saying that word?
And she's like, well, if he'sgonna act like a I'm gonna call
(36:31):
him, hmm.
unknown (36:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (36:34):
There's so much wrong with that statement.
SPEAKER_01 (36:36):
Yeah, yeah, and and she so she doubled down on film.
So this is not he said, shesaid.
This is literally straight inthe recording, okay.
This video went viral, and allof a sudden now she's I'm so
(36:57):
scared.
I I don't, you know, like uhbeing threatened and things like
that.
I I can't go home and blah blahblah blah blah.
Goes on to give send go andraises eight hundred thousand
dollars.
SPEAKER_02 (37:12):
What the fuck?
I want eight hundred thousanddollars for being a dick.
What I've picked the wrongprofession.
Wait.
SPEAKER_01 (37:26):
So, okay, you know what?
She's just practicing her firstamendment.
SPEAKER_04 (37:32):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (37:33):
Final case I want to kind of bring up.
Uh so I I told you like a littlewhile ago to check out this
show, it is on YouTube.
It was Jubilee's 20 versus one.
And I I said that you know thiswas really, really scary, and
(37:54):
I'm sure knowing you, definitelychecked it out.
SPEAKER_02 (37:59):
I have seen clips from it.
Maybe not that specific one, butI do know the concept.
Did I click the link you sentme?
No.
But I still love you.
SPEAKER_01 (38:14):
Because I know you so well that that you are
definitely the type of personthat, oh shit, somebody says I
have to check something out.
I'm gonna do it right away.
SPEAKER_02 (38:24):
Always.
SPEAKER_01 (38:28):
Let's see.
Basically, what it was in thisepisode that came out on July
20th had this guy who is areporter, and it was one pre or
one progressive versus 20 farright wings.
(38:50):
Just so you get like a littlebit of a background of what it
is, and and so basically the theone person he's sitting in the
center of the the room, and thenhe's surrounded by 20 people of
opposing opinions.
And basically, he'll make astatement.
The statement in this case isthat Donald Trump is uh defying
(39:14):
the constitution, and whoeverruns up and touches the chair
first, that that's the personthat's again debate.
SPEAKER_03 (39:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:20):
I don't care.
SPEAKER_05 (39:21):
I frankly don't care being called a Nazi.
I didn't say that.
I didn't actually say that.
I said, are you a fan of theNazis?
Well, they persecuted the churcha little bit.
I'm not a fan of that, but whatabout the persecution of the
Jews?
Well, I mean, I I certainlydon't support anyone's human
dignity being assaulted.
I'm a Catholic.
But you don't condemn Nazipersecution of the Jews.
I I think that there was alittle bit of persecution.
(39:46):
Hey, what can I say?
I think you can say I'm afascist.
SPEAKER_01 (39:50):
Yeah, I am.
So I I I played the full thingfor you.
And and I I'm definitely gonnabe cutting that down to a
smaller clip.
But you you heard what he said.
You know, this is Connor Estellesaying that he's proud to be a
(40:11):
fascist and he laughs about it.
SPEAKER_02 (40:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (40:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (40:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (40:21):
And and big surprise, he went, he himself
went to this.
He himself said all thisbullshit.
Nobody doxed him.
It was it's a very popularYouTube thing, and he he let he
(40:44):
gave said it out in public hisname.
SPEAKER_02 (40:47):
Now, if somebody were to go and look him up and
publish on the end, be like, heyguys, look, here's his address.
That is doxing, but he hasfreely given his name, and if I
choose to look him up andcontact his employer, I I I
don't think that qualifies asdoxing.
SPEAKER_01 (41:09):
Well, so his employer saw that.
SPEAKER_02 (41:14):
Also another big shocker.
SPEAKER_01 (41:19):
He goes on to give some go.
And he was originally sayingthat I'd lost my job because of
my beliefs and asking for15,000, and he within a couple
days he was already at 34,000.
SPEAKER_02 (41:38):
You know, I I do want to take a little bit of
it's not pleasure, is the wrongword, but comfort in the fact
that it's not like these peoplewere going to give that money to
a good cause.
Like this did not come out oftheir gee, should I donate this
to Goodwill or you know, thelocal food pantry or something
(42:01):
like that.
I will take that tiny bit ofcomfort in the sheer amount of
money these people are able toraise.
SPEAKER_01 (42:10):
Yeah, it's but you know, it's it's it's scary to
think that people are that happyof of what he said to send them
money.
So, with all of that being said,doxing, people losing their jobs
(42:35):
over things, people who are youknow getting called out, and
then also people who are fuckingaround and and winning.
SPEAKER_02 (42:44):
So I will say for some of these people, the the
fuck around and win, my hope isthat the win is temporary.
I mean, obviously, you know,34k, that that does make a big
difference.
That does help out a lot.
My hope is that he's unable toturn that into other stuff.
(43:05):
And that this this is not along-term solution for him to
mooch off of others.
For doxing, I think we need tobe smart about like I think
there is a time and placeactually for when you should
publish people's informationonline, like if you identify
somebody.
Is that time because you're madat them?
(43:26):
No.
Is it to you know, send yourfollowers to harass them?
No.
Does it sometimes serve apurpose to identify people who
are misbehaving and have themface at least some type of
consequence for theirmisbehavior?
(43:50):
Yeah.
I mean, I would also like topoint out, too, that for these
final ones that you mentioned,it's it's on the edge of doxing.
Because again, doxing issupposed to be you publish
personal like information thatcan be used to identify a person
online.
If you don't publish it, I don'tthink that that doesn't qualify
(44:13):
as doxing.
So these people who try, like,oh, I got doxed, like the people
hate me.
Yeah, maybe they do hate you,probably for a good reason.
But you went out and be public,we went out in public and
misbehaved.
So yeah, people figured out whoyou are.
Public shaming serves a purpose,and I think we need to, as a
(44:37):
society, get better aboutidentifying when is a good time
to publicly shame, kind of likein instances where you see
somebody, you know, mockingsomebody or straight up saying,
like, yeah, I'm a fascist, I amall for it.
Like dictatorship, autocracy,here we come, baby, woo-hoo.
Yeah, you shouldn't be allowedto run around like that.
(44:59):
But doxing people, like in thefirst scenario that you gave,
yeah, where it's like, this ispersonal beef that we have with
each other, that I I view as ahuge, huge no no.
Because again, that is actuallydoxing.
And you have exposed somebodywho didn't actually do anything
bad.
(45:20):
You can disagree with himcalling you out for copying
people, you're allowed to dothat.
But to show up at his houseuninvited, and he's unaware that
you have his information, he orshe doesn't matter, and you show
up there, especially livestreaming it to all of your
followers.
Hell no.
SPEAKER_01 (45:41):
Yeah, I I I agree.
I think that I think that doxingas far as like how far somebody
goes, I don't think that anybodyshould be threatened.
I don't think that anybodyshould be, you know, in fear of
their actual lives.
(46:03):
But again, you know, there thereis that line of okay, you know,
the the the the therapist whotrauma dumping, like if nothing
were to happen and she keeps onspewing this type of shit,
again, you're you're destroyinga whole industry.
SPEAKER_02 (46:20):
And you could theoretically say, Hey, I think
that was me.
Now, would you be able to proveit in a court of law, like in
that case?
It would be pretty hard becauseshe could say, Oh no, I just
happened to make that videothen.
But it would look very, verysuspicious if you that morning
had had your first session withher, and you know, you're aware
(46:41):
that you kind of got there andyou were just like, Oh god, I've
been holding this in here, hereit all is, and then that
afternoon you see that she'sposted that video, you could
kind of make a connection and belike, I think you're talking
about me, and I think that's notokay.
SPEAKER_01 (46:58):
And you know, like as far as like the the the last
three, like I I think that youknow, and I I think that this is
one of the things for for allthis, is that you know, the the
whole fuck around and find outyou are allowed to say whatever
the fuck you want to, you areallowed to you know be I'm
(47:19):
allowed to not have you in mycompany.
There's gonna be consequencesexactly.
And and so like I think withlike the first case where with
sniper wolf, like okay, that waspersonal beef.
There's a huge differencebetween making other people as a
(47:40):
whole feel uncomfortable.
So, like, I mean, the rest ofthese with the the therapist,
the try-again liberal, you havesomebody who's out there
shooting people, you havesomebody out there who is trying
to uh get a whole groupgenocide, another person who is
(48:01):
taking things back to the 1920s,those people are are a different
story where they're they'rethey're trying to affect other
people versus Jack Films who wasgoing for one person in
particular.
Okay.
One person in particular, takethem to court.
(48:21):
If you really felt that he wascalling you out and and ruining
your life, yeah, he's slanderingyour reputation.
SPEAKER_02 (48:29):
If you think you can, then yeah, see him in
court.
Like let it be settled there.
But you didn't.
You showed up to his house.
SPEAKER_01 (48:42):
And so on on our scale of toxicity, where where
would you put this?
Would you put this as a greenpotato where you shave off the
green and you're able to eat thepotato?
Would you put this as a deathcapmushroom where you have a 50-50
shot of dying?
Or would you say that this is alime jello with antifreeze?
(49:05):
It's a life for last meal?
SPEAKER_02 (49:06):
I I know the answer should be antifreeze.
Right.
Like we're talking about doxing.
Doxing is bad, and somethingthat you know I think is the
issue here is that you may putthat information out with good
intentions, even for a badperson.
You may put that information outand be like, hey, I uncovered
this Nazi, like it's it's Bob.
(49:29):
But the internet does not havegood intentions, and something
you have to be aware about isthat you may have put that
information out, like, to behelpful and to help identify
this bad person, but people maynot act like adults around the
information.
See as a sniper wolf, like didnot act like an adult about
this, and you now lose controland you don't know who is going
(49:55):
to get that information.
And again, even if Bob's a Nazi,Bob does not deserve to have
some somebody show up at hishouse and shoot him and murder
him, like out of the blue,because you know, they saw this,
like, oh, it's this guy, andthen they looked him up in the
phone book and then drove there.
Does he deserve the rottenprison?
Yes, yes, he does.
(50:17):
You're gonna be a Nazi.
I guess I would have to say, andI I do actually want to give a
big thank you to my sister, whotook one for the team and looked
up how much antifes it takes tokill somebody, like the real NVP
(50:39):
here.
And the deal is without gettinginto all of it, it it depends
obviously on your size.
Uh, it also depends if you'vebeen drinking alcohol.
If you've been drinking alcohol,that will save you.
So I guess I'm gonna say thatdoxing is our our previous one
was you know, you made limejello and you like swirled the
(51:00):
spoon in there that had been anantifreeze.
Um, and the new updated, moreclinically accurate version is
this is jello, lime jello withantifreeze in it, but you have
had like eight shots of tequila,so you were partially protected
from it.
So like low antifreeze.
SPEAKER_01 (51:21):
I'm actually gonna have to.
SPEAKER_02 (51:23):
Ooh, wow.
SPEAKER_01 (51:24):
I'm gonna say death cap.
So I think that this is one ofthose things where it depends.
Because like how far you go withit.
So I mean, if you go if if youget the person fired, now
they're gonna be struggling, andthings like that by because of
the the actions that they do,that's one thing.
(51:49):
So it and it and it's just likeany other job where if I were to
if I were to go to work atMickey D's and I punch my
coworker in the face.
SPEAKER_02 (52:02):
Yeah, I hope so.
SPEAKER_01 (52:03):
So obviously I'm getting.
SPEAKER_02 (52:04):
Now, if you don't want to get fired, try Waho
instead.
They'll keep you on.
Wahoes.
SPEAKER_01 (52:12):
Waho?
SPEAKER_02 (52:14):
You are safe.
You can punch all the coworkersand customers you want.
SPEAKER_01 (52:24):
Uh so so yeah, I think that actions do deserve
consequences.
I don't think those consequencesshould be a fear of your life.
But at the same time, I thinkthat you also have to really,
you know, find a ground.
So, like, just as we were kindof saying before, or as you were
(52:46):
saying before, that how far doesthat line go, or how long does
that line last?
So looking at the the therapistI was talking about before, when
I looked her up by name, youstill saw the the the whole
video of the trauma dumping, butit was a little bit lower on the
Google scale now that it wasbeen two almost three years.
(53:10):
Somebody like the ConnorEstelle, his name is gonna be
all over the place for a goodlong while.
But again, I think that ifyou're if you're talking about
genocide, then yeah, youprobably should have your name
related to that for the case.
SPEAKER_02 (53:25):
I guess again, the thing with doxing is that you
were publishing this informationwithout the person's agreement,
and that's where it gets weird,is that these people, you know,
kind of in conventional speak,they dox themselves.
They published identifiableinformation about themselves
without their own permission.
(53:47):
And that that's a hundredpercent like I don't feel bad
for you.
Where I do feel bad about is ifsomebody says, Hey, here's this
person, and you put thatinformation out, and even if
again, you're doing it with thebest of intentions, and this is
why I think there's why doxingis so bad, you can have the
purest intentions, like for thistherapist, and you put it out
there, and you're like, Hey, shesaid this, and that's like super
(54:10):
not okay, and here's why.
And you mention her name, likeher real government name, and
somebody then in a state of mindthat's like really upset,
because you know, this may besomebody who needs to be in
therapy or is in therapy and isnot doing too hot, and they see
your video and they're like, yo,fuck this woman.
(54:30):
And they go and buy a gun andand go shoot her.
That is a very real thing thatyou have to think about, like
when you dox somebody, that youdon't control that information
that you're putting out there.
And you again, you did it withpure intentions.
You wanted people to know here'swho she is, here's what she
said, here's why that's wrong.
But you don't know how peoplewill use that.
(54:53):
And that's not yourresponsibility and your fault,
but you do have to keep that inthe back of your head that,
like, what is the worst casescenario?
Death.
SPEAKER_01 (55:04):
But even like the the last three, like, I would
still call that doxing justbecause of the fact that you
know, like the the SiloHendricks, it's not like she
went out there and said, Hi, I'mMiss Hendrix, and I'm a racist,
you know, calling afive-year-old with the N-word.
People or the video went viral,and somebody was able to say,
(55:24):
Oh, I know.
SPEAKER_02 (55:25):
That's true, yeah, that is doxing.
SPEAKER_01 (55:27):
And then gave out her public information.
The same thing with Connor, heonly gave his first name.
Somebody was able to look him upand give out his last name.
Rittenhouse, I mean, yeah, thenews kind of doxed him, but you
know, it is still like it's notlike the the the last three were
(55:49):
like, you know what?
I want everybody to know thatthat's true.
SPEAKER_02 (55:54):
I guess the difference really comes down to
like, you know, how misbehavingis your misbehavior.
Because once it crosses thatline of like, I love fascism,
yay! Oh, you get what you got.
Like, I don't I don't feel bad,you lost your job.
When it's a hey, you made avideo about me that I'm really
uncomfortable with and I'mreally mad, and you know, I'm
(56:17):
gonna like publish this aboutyou to shame you, and something
bad happens, then it's a littlebit different because it's like
I feel like we maybe could havehandled this better.
Again, I still think it's not afull for me, it's not a full-on
antiphrase because I think ithas some uses.
(56:38):
I think public shaming is a goodthing sometimes.
But I think we do just it canturn deadly, and we do have
instances of it turning deadly,and I think that's something you
have to keep in mind at alltimes, like when you decide am I
going to do this or not, andthat's why I give it that that
ranking.
SPEAKER_01 (56:59):
So if you have any differences of opinions and want
to dox Lindsay or Christopher,you it feels weird to say your
full name like that.
Please feel free to write us attoxic at awesome lifespills.com,
(57:23):
or you can find us on Blue Sky,TikTok, X, Facebook.
Well, it's still up there.
SPEAKER_02 (57:31):
Oh, that's true, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (57:33):
And please follow us.
And until next time, I've beenChristopher Patchett, LCSW.
SPEAKER_02 (57:39):
And I've been Lindsay McLean.
SPEAKER_01 (57:41):
Bye.
SPEAKER_02 (57:43):
Bye.
Hi, and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people to theirsimplest ingredients.
I'm your host, ChristopherPatchett, LCSW.
SPEAKER_02 (00:11):
And I'm Lindsay McLean.
SPEAKER_01 (00:15):
Miss Lindsay.
Today you texted me and you toldme that you were gonna be a
little late to the recording,and now I'm pissed.
I am furious.
And I am now gonna tell theentire podcast world to get on
(00:38):
your shit.
SPEAKER_04 (00:39):
What?
SPEAKER_01 (00:40):
I am gonna give out all of your social media, your
phone number, and where youlive.
SPEAKER_02 (00:47):
Don't you dox me?
Don't you fucking do it?
Don't you fucking do it?
I'll dox you right back.
I know how this works.
SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
So today's episode is about doxing.
SPEAKER_02 (01:06):
Ooh.
Yeah, that's pretty toxic.
SPEAKER_01 (01:10):
Yeah.
If you don't know what doxingis, doxing is basically when it
could be either a disagreementor somebody doesn't like your
views, or somebody doesn't it isjust hates you in in one form or
another.
SPEAKER_03 (01:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:31):
And gives out the person's address, their where
they work, or their their realnames, or or whoever, like gives
it out to Yeah, it's anypublicly identifiable
information about the person, Ithink.
SPEAKER_01 (01:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:47):
So you could you know be watching a video and be
like, that's ChristopherPatchett.
And that would technically beconsidered doxing.
Or it's I'm mad at my professor,so I Googled them and here's
their phone number.
SPEAKER_01 (02:03):
Yep.
Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
SPEAKER_02 (02:06):
Woo!
SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
So I I kind of want to start off.
I'm gonna I'm gonna go down acouple stories here.
And one you might actually know.
Well, I I know that you knowprobably a couple of these at
least.
SPEAKER_02 (02:24):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
But I'm curious if you know SS Sniper Wolf.
SPEAKER_02 (02:29):
No, that doesn't sound familiar.
SPEAKER_01 (02:32):
Okay, how the fuck do I know this and you don't?
Like this is coming from thesame person who gave me shit for
not knowing uh uh PewDiePie.
SPEAKER_02 (02:41):
I you know what the best part was I was just
thinking of that example.
SPEAKER_01 (02:48):
Oh fucking fuck fuck.
SS Sniper Wolf, capital SCapital S Sniper Wolf.
It is sexy sexy sniper wolf.
Oh okay her real name is Ala SheLish and she does she started
(03:13):
off back in like 2012.
She was doing basically likeCall of Duty and things like
that, so she was like an onlinegamer, and she would uh go on
YouTube, and then when Twitchbecame popular, she started
gaming on that, and slowly shewent from an online gamer to
(03:38):
doing online content, onlinecontent with YouTube, and then
it was basically like reactionvideos.
SPEAKER_02 (03:50):
I yes, uh which um funnily enough, we will be
talking about next week.
Oh boy, yeah, you started downthis, and I was like, damn,
okay.
This now I don't have to talkabout some of this stuff in
mind.
SPEAKER_01 (04:08):
So so she got she got called out by this guy, he
does Jack Films, and his name isJack Douglas, so he would just
he started doing like callingSniper Wolf out on like
different things that she wasstealing content from other
people.
(04:28):
So I mean she would even go asfar as even the thumbnail clip
and the person beforehand wouldhave like a certain thumbnail
clip, and she would copy it likeexact.
SPEAKER_02 (04:42):
Oh wow, so like not even trying to hide or being
able like I just use this forinspiration.
SPEAKER_01 (04:47):
Yeah, exactly.
Like it was I it was it wasexact, and and the thing was is
that she got caught out for it,and then she would try to go off
about how oh no no no no, thisperson copied me, and it went
back and forth between Jack andSniper Wolf.
And so Jack actually did aseparate channel just really
(05:12):
targeting Sniper Wolf, where itwas JJ Jack Films.
SPEAKER_02 (05:17):
Nice.
SPEAKER_01 (05:21):
He would just he would start doing full videos of
showing the the differentthumbnails, the different
content that she was doing, evenlike going into like the
reaction videos, and it wasbasically it was reaction videos
where it wasn't even reactionvideos, it would just be like
(05:41):
30-second TikTok video, and herjust being like, Oh damn, wow.
SPEAKER_02 (05:49):
Oh, it's like the lowest of low quality reaction
videos where they're not evenadding anything useful to the
debate.
Heavy quotation marks here.
SPEAKER_01 (06:03):
So he started calling her out and really just
kind of like pressing into her,and so she she kept on fighting
about like how that her reactionvideos had something to it,
which if you really do watch hervideos, it is just yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (06:24):
He actually watch them after this.
SPEAKER_01 (06:28):
He actually did a bingo card uh of her reaction
videos where it would be likesomething along the lines of her
yelling about this and hersaying, oh wow, and her saying
don't do that, and he actuallywas able to fill out the uh the
form.
SPEAKER_02 (06:47):
That's never a good thing.
SPEAKER_01 (06:51):
So yeah, she she got pissed off because a lot of
people were getting on her assabout it, and so what better way
to get her or get Jack Filmsback than going to his house?
SS Sniper Wolf, she had 34million followers on YouTube.
Okay, and so I I don't knowexactly how many on Instagram,
(07:14):
but considering the fact that 34million on YouTube, I would
imagine that there was in themillions.
SPEAKER_02 (07:21):
Yeah, yeah, she clearly has a pretty solid
following or did at the time,right?
SPEAKER_01 (07:28):
She she went to his house, she filmed his house, and
she's she's live streaming it,and she's going out to his door,
she's knocking on his door andsaying, I want to talk to you,
you better come out and talk tome, blah blah blah, and she's
banging on his door andeverything like that.
SPEAKER_02 (07:47):
Very adult.
SPEAKER_01 (07:51):
So he ended up calling the police, and I don't
know if she got arrested or orif she was just told to go home,
but either which way, his housewas on video.
She she was filming leading outto his house, and and we've
talked about this before, wherethe the one guy who's able to
(08:14):
find where you are, you know,with people's permissions.
SPEAKER_02 (08:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:19):
And so like he'll do something where somebody will
send him a 15-second clip andsay, like, hey, guess where I
am, and just kind of like goback and forth and show like
their their their surrounding.
SPEAKER_02 (08:33):
Well, they're pretty amazing because sometimes they
even are just like in a randomparking lot and they're you know
moving the phone around.
They're like, Yeah, you know, Ihope that guy can figure out
where I am because I don't knowwhere I am.
And he he does.
He's like, Yep, you're righthere.
I can tell based on like thethis thing, the that thing, the
this sign, the angle of the sun.
It's pretty fantastic to watchhim work.
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
It is, it's it's actually it's it's fascinating,
but at the same time, it's alsocreepy as hell.
SPEAKER_02 (09:01):
It is.
I respect that he does it withpermission, but the problem is
is that then it puts this ideaout there for other people to
see, and they're like, Oh, Icould do that without
permission.
Hey.
SPEAKER_01 (09:25):
That himself and his wife are now worried about
people coming over because ofthis girl who is filming his
house, and there are people outthere that they're able to find
out their information and andliterally just be like, okay,
you know what?
Fuck it.
(09:45):
You know, like I I'm worshipingthe sniper wolf, and I I I I got
her back, and and I'm gonna gothere and do whatever.
SPEAKER_02 (09:55):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (09:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:57):
Yeah, now this information is like way easily
available for them because shewas filming.
I mean, she had to do some workto find it, but I think at this
point, you as a crazed followercould be mildly creepy and
figure it out, and then be supercreepy and actually use that
information.
SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
Yeah, it's I mean, for her, it probably wasn't all
that hard because I I'm surethat you know the YouTube
community has their their owncircle.
Mm-hmm.
And just finding out fromfriends of a friend or whatever,
and so she was able to probablyfind out like fairly easily, but
(10:36):
now she's posting on or she wasposted on her Instagram the the
whole video of her going up andbanging on this guy's door.
unknown (10:46):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
And the way that he actually found out about it was
that before she actually knockedon his door, he was streaming on
YouTube, and all of a sudden,like people were like writing in
saying, like, yo, dude, likeSniper Wolf is coming after you,
like she's posting, like can youimagine that?
SPEAKER_02 (11:08):
Like, you're in the middle of your job, and then
people are pinging you, like,somebody's coming to your house.
SPEAKER_01 (11:15):
Yeah, that that that's fucking crazy.
SPEAKER_02 (11:17):
Like, I mean, I'm glad people let him know, but
God, that's creepy.
SPEAKER_01 (11:23):
Yeah, yeah.
He's like, Oh shit, like, youknow, like should I stop or or
what's going on?
Like, how bad is it?
And people are like, Yeah, youknow, she's she's saying that
she's gonna like bang on yourdoor and all this.
So he literally had to stop hisdreaming and try to figure out
what the hell's going on.
SPEAKER_02 (11:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:43):
And when she's getting up to his door, like
knocking on the door, obviouslyhe's not gonna go outside and be
like, Oh, yes, let's have areasonable conversation here.
SPEAKER_02 (11:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because everyone's clearly in areasonable mood and doing
reasonable adult activitiesright now.
SPEAKER_01 (12:00):
So, yeah, I mean, he he's posted up online that he
didn't feel safe, that his hishis wife didn't feel safe there
anymore.
So I don't know if he moved orif he's still living there, and
because this happened back in2023.
SPEAKER_03 (12:18):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (12:18):
So I don't know if he moved or or what happened,
but but yeah, I mean, he was hesaid a couple times that he just
didn't feel safe at homeanymore.
SPEAKER_02 (12:27):
Uh rightly so, yeah.
God.
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
It doesn't just have to be like you know, like
doxing, just as we were kind ofsaying, it doesn't just have to
be like giving out addresses oranything like that.
I I think in that case, withwith Jack Douglas, uh, yes, that
was definitely going way toofar.
But some of these other ones area little bit more questionable
(12:55):
of how far is too far.
And we'll kind of go into thatlike when when we come into like
where do we go from here?
unknown (13:03):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (13:04):
But I'm sure I I know for a fact you've
definitely heard this becauseI'm sure I've talked about this
with you before.
So, a therapist by the nameEileen Glantz, she had a
business called PsyquestTherapy.
SPEAKER_02 (13:19):
This does sound familiar, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (13:22):
And and so she did this uh TikTok video, and it was
the soundtrack of you know, HolySpirit, you know, pray for me,
Holy Spirit, pray for me.
And and the caption was when aclient trauma dumps on the first
session.
SPEAKER_02 (13:40):
Ah, joyful.
Yes, this this does soundfamiliar with us talking about
like maybe not the type of thingwe should be putting online.
SPEAKER_01 (13:53):
Yeah, I mean, that's well, so first off, I mean, not
not just only not the thing thatyou should be putting up online,
but not the thing that if you'rea therapist that you should even
be thinking.
SPEAKER_02 (14:08):
No, and you can be you can be a little frustrated
and a little bit exasperatedthat you're like, okay, that was
our first session, and I got allthis information.
But if your reaction is thisstrong, then maybe this is not
the profession for you.
(14:29):
Because I would imagine thatthat's not a bizarre or uncommon
occurrence that you have peoplewho come and on their first
session, they're just like withall of this stuff.
It's like, oh my god, slow down.
Please one thing at a time,that's so I can help you.
SPEAKER_01 (14:46):
You gotta figure that a lot of so one of the
biggest things with therapy isis the fact that a lot of people
just they're not being hurt.
And now they're coming to aperson where they feel safe,
that they feel like, okay, youknow what, I've been bottling
this shit up for like years.
And and especially like I I workas a trauma therapist, so I
(15:10):
mean, you know, you're you'retalking about like especially
when I was working withveterans, you're talking about
people who've been holding uptrauma for 10, 15, 20 years.
SPEAKER_03 (15:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:22):
And finally coming to a place where they're like,
okay, thank God I can finallylike let it all out.
And you know, they they'vethey've never gone through
therapy before.
You know, they they they don'tknow what you know.
A lot of times I I can't tellyou how many times where I've
met somebody for the first timeand they'll say something along
(15:43):
the lines of, hey, this is thefirst time of doing therapy,
like I don't even know where tobegin.
SPEAKER_03 (15:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:48):
So, you know, some people like don't they'll just
kind of be like, I don't evenknow where to begin.
Some people they'll come in andthey'll just be like, Okay,
here's the past 20 years of mylife, uh, and I just need to get
the fuck out.
And you know, as far as like uhme being a therapist, like yes,
(16:09):
I I I'm supposed to ask aboutyour background, I'm supposed to
ask about like your parents, I'msupposed to act about ask about
you growing up.
Do you do drugs?
Do you do you know, like, etc.,etc.?
But you know, there are timeswhere the the sessions can go
off course.
And you know, I'm not gonna sitthere, especially if somebody
(16:32):
does have that 20 years pinnedup trauma, to be like, yeah,
look, that's great andeverything, but let's get back
to your parents, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:44):
Not not helpful, right?
You let it go, you see where itgoes, and then you know, maybe
next session we kind of uh workoff of that, or maybe slip in
some more other questions.
It's fine.
SPEAKER_01 (16:59):
Yeah, I I mean there were times where I might have to
extend the first session to likethree or four.
And just just because again, I Iwant the person to be able to
have that place to come to thatthey're able to let things off
their chest, and uh at the sametime, like these are things that
(17:19):
yes, we're gonna go over at somepoint, but you know, again, if
you've been holding it in for15, 20 years or more, then you
know, it's it's it's it's a bombthat's going off.
And good.
You know, I'd rather you I'drather that bomb to be going off
in front of me than coming outin anger on the streets.
SPEAKER_02 (17:44):
No, and exactly, and at least this way it may give
you some ideas about things tobe like, okay, we're just gonna
let you keep going for now, butmaking a big star next to this
point that like we need to comeback to this at some point, type
thing, and giving them that safespace to be like, okay, I can
just talk through my feelingsand talk through this, and
(18:04):
there's no one interrupting mewith questions or trying to
snare me someplace I can justwork through it mentally and get
it off my chest.
SPEAKER_01 (18:12):
Yeah, it it's and and so tick tock people are
using it.
Two things I I kind of think ofis this person thrown out there
about you know, like when a whena client trauma dumps on the
first session, one what ifthat's one of her or what if her
(18:32):
client who did that actually sawthat?
SPEAKER_02 (18:36):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (18:39):
And then two, like therapy is is still like a very,
very semi-taboo thing.
So it's not nearly what it wasbefore, but it is still nowhere
near what it where it should be.
You know, I mean, we we'vetalked about this before of like
how back in the 90s, if somebodywent into therapy, it was like,
(19:00):
oh shit, what the fuck do theydo?
unknown (19:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:04):
Versus where nowadays people are just kind of
like, oh yeah, you know, Italked to my therapist about
blah blah blah.
But it is still on that verge ofbecoming more normalized.
So you have half the people whoare very open and like, yeah,
you know, I'm going to therapy,blah, blah, blah.
And there's some people who arelike, man, I don't want to be
(19:25):
seen as being fucked up.
I'm gonna keep that to myself.
And then they see this andthey're like, ooh, maybe like
I'm being judged at my session.
SPEAKER_02 (19:41):
Yeah, I think you have to know that depending on
your profession, like there aresome professions where you could
absolutely make fun of yourclient like that.
And I don't think it would be abig problem where you know, if
you're doing design, you're youknow, creative designer, you
design logos, and you make onelike, you know, when you meet
(20:04):
the client for the first timeand like they have too many
ideas and you're making fun ofthem for that.
That, you know, we can all lookat that and be like, ah, that's
fine.
This is funny, ha ha ha.
But you have to understand whenyou're working with something
serious like this, that this isa population that does need to
be protected a little bit, andthere are a few more, you know,
(20:26):
rules about what we do and don'ttalk about online.
I would be mortified if I foundout that my therapist had done
this.
Even if it wasn't about me.
Even if I just, you know, lookedup this therapist and I was
like, you know, I know that I'mseeing them and I know I didn't
trauma dump, but I saw thisvideo, I would be mortified.
(20:50):
It's like, what else are youmaking videos about?
SPEAKER_01 (20:53):
Yeah, yeah.
It's yeah, it it's it's you'reyou're you're pushing away a
large population, not just yourown clients, but anybody who's
seen this.
SPEAKER_02 (21:04):
Yeah.
And for what, a few laughs?
It's not that funny.
Like in this sense, again, theperson designing logos, we can
laugh at that, but this thisversion is not laughing.
Nobody's laughing at that, orshould be.
SPEAKER_01 (21:20):
Right.
So, you know, and and actually,myself included on this one,
there was a bunch of therapiststhat were like, hey, look, you
know, like this is a safe placethat you know we're not here
judging you.
So a lot of us we had to go outthere and and basically damage
(21:40):
control, yeah, putting out thefire that this person created.
And so a lot of people calledher out.
That her business, because itwas an LLC side quest therapy,
and so she got she got calledout.
She had to take or she deletedher TikTok account.
(22:02):
Apparently, her her business shehad to leave that.
Now, I did when I was doingresearch, I still saw her that
she is still doing therapy, butshe doesn't have like a TikTok
account or anything like that.
So hopefully she learned to shutthe fuck up.
(22:23):
And actually, maybe this mighthave been something to have
corrected her.
SPEAKER_02 (22:30):
I'd like to hope so that this was a learning
opportunity, as opposed to nowshe's running around bitter and
is like, ah, I got canceled onthe internet because people
don't, you know, nobody can takea laugh these days.
SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
Right, right.
And and I I I I hope so as well.
Which actually, I I love thatthat you you said that because
you're the next person that Iwant to talk about.
Uh oh.
This is another TikTok video.
And right now in the UnitedStates, yeah, people are very,
(23:11):
very, very divided of where weare politically.
And one of the things that thathas been kind of a hot topic
here lately is immigration, ice,and everything like that.
There is a TikToker.
I was trying to find this guy'sname.
(23:31):
I know I saw you knoworiginally, and this was one of
the things that that made mewant to look into doxing.
But I could I couldn't find itagain.
He does have another TikTok.
We'll go into that in a second,but his TikTok TikTok name was
Try Again Liberals.
SPEAKER_02 (23:53):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (23:55):
And so what he did is he posted that he was in a
Mexican restaurant, and he said,Guess what?
And like all whispering, guesswhat?
I'm in a Mexican restaurant,salsa and chips.
All right, liberals freaked out.
(24:18):
So he he's basically because allof his all of his content is of
how ICE is doing a great job andhow he wants to see more people
deport it.
SPEAKER_02 (24:29):
And ah, okay, and here he is, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
So he's kind of doing the whole like ha ha ha,
look at me, I'm in a Mexicanrestaurant.
Uh, even though I want to seeeverybody in this restaurant
deport it, is stupid.
You know, you you you're you'rebeing a fucking dumbass, and and
and dumbasses again do dumbassthings.
(24:55):
One of the beautiful things wasis that apparently he went into
this restaurant, probably rightaround the time that he got off
work or something, because hewas wearing the company shirt.
And even better to find out thatthe company is owned by his
brother.
(25:16):
And when people saw this, theystarted calling up the company,
they started showing you knowthe company owner of like this
video, start doxing the thecompany, like you know, like one
star, blah blah blah, this,that, and the other.
So you were saying a little bitearlier, like hopefully, with
(25:38):
the the therapist that hopefullythis was like a lesson learned
that we were kind of sayingabout hopefully this is one of
those things where she goesaround and says about how like
maybe I probably shouldn't saythings like that, and is now
being decent therapist at thevery least.
(25:59):
So this guy that I was justsaying about, where he had
posted on he was at a Mexicanrestaurant, even though he wants
to see half the or you know,half the staff report it.
This so he lost his job, andhere is his response.
SPEAKER_00 (26:18):
You know, I can't believe this fucking happened.
You fucking people messaging myfreaking employer, calling him
Well, you finally did it.
You got me fired.
Don't you feel good aboutyourself?
No, me and my pregnant wife.
I don't know what we're gonnado.
We lost our medical We losteverything because you disagree
(26:41):
with me.
Fuck you.
SPEAKER_02 (26:46):
I'm gonna disagree with him on that one and be like
you did this to yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (26:50):
Yeah, you know, uh so this is the thing that that
that really makes me laugh isthat you know, you did this to
me because you disagreed withme.
SPEAKER_02 (26:59):
I mean, I understand that yes, this probably does
count as doxing because youfound this information that is
publicly available.
But I also think that if you'regoing to fuck around, don't be
surprised when you find out.
And if you have made a name foryourself making really hateful
(27:20):
videos on anything, and you havea recognizable face and you go
out in public wearing yourcompany's branded clothing, it's
the same way that, like, youknow, Nike or whoever will pull
a sponsorship from somebodywho's acting crazy because
(27:40):
they're like, yo, we don't wantto be associated with that.
Because all everyone else seesis hey, there's somebody in a
McDonald's uniform acting thefuck up.
What's going on here?
And people will focus, peoplewill notice a McDonald's
uniform, and McDonald's doesn'twant to be connected with that,
and so they're gonna say no,bye.
(28:00):
That's the that's the same thingas Nike, and that's the same
thing that's happened here, isthat you are giving your
employer potential bad publicitybecause you've made hateful
videos.
So, yeah, there there areconsequences to to doing that.
SPEAKER_01 (28:14):
And the thing is, is that okay, let's just say that
in his puny little mind thatthis is not a thing of hate,
that this is you know the theAmerican, you know, blah blah
blah bullshit.
Yeah, okay, fine, you're allowedto have that opinion.
(28:37):
And the thing is, okay, I don'tlike cats.
SPEAKER_02 (28:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:44):
Now I can go off and make videos about how dogs are
better than cats, that I'm not acat fan, that dog everybody
should have dogs, and catsshouldn't be in anybody's home.
But you know, there is a linethere, you know, like if if I
(29:08):
was supporting, you know, uhkill shelters.
SPEAKER_02 (29:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:12):
Or yeah, you know, like uh things like that, or or
kind of going off about howdoing doing harmful things to
cats.
SPEAKER_02 (29:22):
Yeah, laughing at videos of dogs attacking cats or
things like that, and postingthat publicly for people to see
with your face attached to it.
You're allowed to have thosebeliefs, and I'm allowed to not
support you.
And as your employer, I'mallowed to say that's not
something I want people toassociate my company with.
SPEAKER_01 (29:43):
Right.
And and the thing is, is like,you know, as long as I keep it
within a certain boundary, likeagain, posting videos about dogs
and how much I love dogs, andsaying that this is why dogs are
better than cats.
I'm not gonna lose my business.
I'm not going to get fired.
SPEAKER_02 (30:05):
No, because if you were reasonable, even if
somebody was like, you manster,and tried to report you to your
company, A, self-employed, butyou want to speak to the
manager, they're right here.
But you know, if you wereworking for somebody, that's the
type of thing that you couldvery easily be like, oh no, I
can show you my videos that Imake.
I can show you right here thistype of thing because you know
(30:28):
that there is nothing wrong thatyou have said.
And I would imagine that whathappened here was yes, that
video was not offensive, butclearly people went and reported
it, and clearly it came up thatthere were other videos that
were potentially really, reallyoffensive.
And so, yeah, I'm sure hisemployer was like, you know, I
don't think this is working.
SPEAKER_01 (30:48):
Right.
So, so it's not nobody got himfired except for himself.
SPEAKER_02 (30:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
He could have gone off about how much he supports
Trump and ICE and everythinglike that, and it would have
been fine.
But the fact that he wanted togo that extra step and really
just kind of rub it intopeople's faces.
SPEAKER_02 (31:12):
Yeah.
Like it's also, and you neverknow, and we're we'll we'll talk
about this next week.
Instead of at some point in thefuture, haha, I have a date for
it.
For once.
SPEAKER_01 (31:23):
I was gonna say, I I love the fact that it's actually
like next week instead of we'reone of these days we have to.
SPEAKER_02 (31:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you know, you never know whois actually seeing that.
It could have literally been hisemployer who stumbled across it.
No, I don't think so in thiscase, but you don't know.
It might not even be thatsomebody reports you, it might
be that your employer realizesyou are doing something that is
against company policy, that isharmful to the company's image,
(31:51):
is just plain stupid while againwearing company clothing or
repping the company brand in oneway or another.
It could be them, just on theirown, who's like, wait a second.
SPEAKER_01 (32:06):
So final thing I kind of want to go on is fuck
around and get rewarded.
SPEAKER_02 (32:14):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01 (32:16):
I know I know for a fact that you've heard this one,
Kyle Vertonhouse.
SPEAKER_02 (32:21):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
Okay, just to just to kind of give a brief story
for people who don't remember orname doesn't sound familiar or
whatever.
Basically, during the whole2020, Black Life Matters,
protest, and things like that.
Some of them did get violent,yes.
So, what this kid did, he was 17at the time and went into a
(32:48):
city, I think drove for or hadhis mom drive him for three
hours to the city with anassault rifle and basically put
himself into a predicament wherehe knew he was going to get
attacked and shot somebody.
Uh so okay.
(33:09):
Whether or not you agree ordisagree with the Second
Amendment, stand your ground,and everything like that, it was
still stupid.
It was dumb as fuck.
SPEAKER_02 (33:19):
It was because he intentionally put himself in
that situation, and there'sobviously a huge difference
between I have ended up in thissituation that I did not want to
be in, and I did everything toavoid, and I see no other
option, and so I shoot you.
And somebody who specificallyseeks out that space to create
(33:43):
that problem, and then be like,Oh no, guess I have to shoot
you.
SPEAKER_01 (33:51):
So he put him in put himself in that position and
ended up killing somebody andwhen all or the this mean
headline news, and he set up agive send go, which is basically
(34:11):
a go fund me.
That that's veryChristian-based.
SPEAKER_02 (34:19):
Yes, because he has definitely lived a very
Christian life by doing this.
SPEAKER_01 (34:24):
Right, right.
And and you know, I this this isnot the podcast for this, but
Christian nationalists is athing.
SPEAKER_02 (34:35):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
So the people who are going to go to a give send
go are going to definitely beslightly to the right.
SPEAKER_02 (34:49):
Just a little.
SPEAKER_01 (34:51):
Just a little.
And so he raised five hundredand eighty-four thousand dollars
for uh lawyer fees andeverything like that.
Going even better.
Like, okay, so let's say withwith Kyle, we are able to say
(35:16):
that okay, he was justpracticing his second amendment.
SPEAKER_03 (35:20):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01 (35:21):
That okay, you know what?
Fine.
If you want to think that way,fine, whatever.
So looking at Shiloh Hendricks,this happened back in June of
this year.
She was she was recorded by thiskid's father, who apparently
(35:44):
what had happened was thislittle five-year-old went into
her diaper bag and and tooksomething of her kids.
Okay.
Kid is five years old.
SPEAKER_02 (35:55):
Doesn't know what she doesn't understand the
concept of stealing necessarilyyet.
SPEAKER_01 (36:02):
So she turned around, she called him the the
N-word.
SPEAKER_02 (36:06):
Oh.
SPEAKER_01 (36:07):
Okay.
So this kid's father picked uphis phone and followed her and
said, you know, like, why thefuck would you say something
like that?
You know, like, uh, and she'slike, oh, you know, he he went
in my bag and blah blah blah.
He's like, does that does thatconstitute for saying that word?
And she's like, well, if he'sgonna act like a I'm gonna call
(36:31):
him, hmm.
unknown (36:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (36:34):
There's so much wrong with that statement.
SPEAKER_01 (36:36):
Yeah, yeah, and and she so she doubled down on film.
So this is not he said, shesaid.
This is literally straight inthe recording, okay.
This video went viral, and allof a sudden now she's I'm so
(36:57):
scared.
I I don't, you know, like uhbeing threatened and things like
that.
I I can't go home and blah blahblah blah blah.
Goes on to give send go andraises eight hundred thousand
dollars.
SPEAKER_02 (37:12):
What the fuck?
I want eight hundred thousanddollars for being a dick.
What I've picked the wrongprofession.
Wait.
SPEAKER_01 (37:26):
So, okay, you know what?
She's just practicing her firstamendment.
SPEAKER_04 (37:32):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (37:33):
Final case I want to kind of bring up.
Uh so I I told you like a littlewhile ago to check out this
show, it is on YouTube.
It was Jubilee's 20 versus one.
And I I said that you know thiswas really, really scary, and
(37:54):
I'm sure knowing you, definitelychecked it out.
SPEAKER_02 (37:59):
I have seen clips from it.
Maybe not that specific one, butI do know the concept.
Did I click the link you sentme?
No.
But I still love you.
SPEAKER_01 (38:14):
Because I know you so well that that you are
definitely the type of personthat, oh shit, somebody says I
have to check something out.
I'm gonna do it right away.
SPEAKER_02 (38:24):
Always.
SPEAKER_01 (38:28):
Let's see.
Basically, what it was in thisepisode that came out on July
20th had this guy who is areporter, and it was one pre or
one progressive versus 20 farright wings.
(38:50):
Just so you get like a littlebit of a background of what it
is, and and so basically the theone person he's sitting in the
center of the the room, and thenhe's surrounded by 20 people of
opposing opinions.
And basically, he'll make astatement.
The statement in this case isthat Donald Trump is uh defying
(39:14):
the constitution, and whoeverruns up and touches the chair
first, that that's the personthat's again debate.
SPEAKER_03 (39:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:20):
I don't care.
SPEAKER_05 (39:21):
I frankly don't care being called a Nazi.
I didn't say that.
I didn't actually say that.
I said, are you a fan of theNazis?
Well, they persecuted the churcha little bit.
I'm not a fan of that, but whatabout the persecution of the
Jews?
Well, I mean, I I certainlydon't support anyone's human
dignity being assaulted.
I'm a Catholic.
But you don't condemn Nazipersecution of the Jews.
I I think that there was alittle bit of persecution.
(39:46):
Hey, what can I say?
I think you can say I'm afascist.
SPEAKER_01 (39:50):
Yeah, I am.
So I I I played the full thingfor you.
And and I I'm definitely gonnabe cutting that down to a
smaller clip.
But you you heard what he said.
You know, this is Connor Estellesaying that he's proud to be a
(40:11):
fascist and he laughs about it.
SPEAKER_02 (40:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (40:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (40:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (40:21):
And and big surprise, he went, he himself
went to this.
He himself said all thisbullshit.
Nobody doxed him.
It was it's a very popularYouTube thing, and he he let he
(40:44):
gave said it out in public hisname.
SPEAKER_02 (40:47):
Now, if somebody were to go and look him up and
publish on the end, be like, heyguys, look, here's his address.
That is doxing, but he hasfreely given his name, and if I
choose to look him up andcontact his employer, I I I
don't think that qualifies asdoxing.
SPEAKER_01 (41:09):
Well, so his employer saw that.
SPEAKER_02 (41:14):
Also another big shocker.
SPEAKER_01 (41:19):
He goes on to give some go.
And he was originally sayingthat I'd lost my job because of
my beliefs and asking for15,000, and he within a couple
days he was already at 34,000.
SPEAKER_02 (41:38):
You know, I I do want to take a little bit of
it's not pleasure, is the wrongword, but comfort in the fact
that it's not like these peoplewere going to give that money to
a good cause.
Like this did not come out oftheir gee, should I donate this
to Goodwill or you know, thelocal food pantry or something
(42:01):
like that.
I will take that tiny bit ofcomfort in the sheer amount of
money these people are able toraise.
SPEAKER_01 (42:10):
Yeah, it's but you know, it's it's it's scary to
think that people are that happyof of what he said to send them
money.
So, with all of that being said,doxing, people losing their jobs
(42:35):
over things, people who are youknow getting called out, and
then also people who are fuckingaround and and winning.
SPEAKER_02 (42:44):
So I will say for some of these people, the the
fuck around and win, my hope isthat the win is temporary.
I mean, obviously, you know,34k, that that does make a big
difference.
That does help out a lot.
My hope is that he's unable toturn that into other stuff.
(43:05):
And that this this is not along-term solution for him to
mooch off of others.
For doxing, I think we need tobe smart about like I think
there is a time and placeactually for when you should
publish people's informationonline, like if you identify
somebody.
Is that time because you're madat them?
(43:26):
No.
Is it to you know, send yourfollowers to harass them?
No.
Does it sometimes serve apurpose to identify people who
are misbehaving and have themface at least some type of
consequence for theirmisbehavior?
(43:50):
Yeah.
I mean, I would also like topoint out, too, that for these
final ones that you mentioned,it's it's on the edge of doxing.
Because again, doxing issupposed to be you publish
personal like information thatcan be used to identify a person
online.
If you don't publish it, I don'tthink that that doesn't qualify
(44:13):
as doxing.
So these people who try, like,oh, I got doxed, like the people
hate me.
Yeah, maybe they do hate you,probably for a good reason.
But you went out and be public,we went out in public and
misbehaved.
So yeah, people figured out whoyou are.
Public shaming serves a purpose,and I think we need to, as a
(44:37):
society, get better aboutidentifying when is a good time
to publicly shame, kind of likein instances where you see
somebody, you know, mockingsomebody or straight up saying,
like, yeah, I'm a fascist, I amall for it.
Like dictatorship, autocracy,here we come, baby, woo-hoo.
Yeah, you shouldn't be allowedto run around like that.
(44:59):
But doxing people, like in thefirst scenario that you gave,
yeah, where it's like, this ispersonal beef that we have with
each other, that I I view as ahuge, huge no no.
Because again, that is actuallydoxing.
And you have exposed somebodywho didn't actually do anything
bad.
(45:20):
You can disagree with himcalling you out for copying
people, you're allowed to dothat.
But to show up at his houseuninvited, and he's unaware that
you have his information, he orshe doesn't matter, and you show
up there, especially livestreaming it to all of your
followers.
Hell no.
SPEAKER_01 (45:41):
Yeah, I I I agree.
I think that I think that doxingas far as like how far somebody
goes, I don't think that anybodyshould be threatened.
I don't think that anybodyshould be, you know, in fear of
their actual lives.
(46:03):
But again, you know, there thereis that line of okay, you know,
the the the the therapist whotrauma dumping, like if nothing
were to happen and she keeps onspewing this type of shit,
again, you're you're destroyinga whole industry.
SPEAKER_02 (46:20):
And you could theoretically say, Hey, I think
that was me.
Now, would you be able to proveit in a court of law, like in
that case?
It would be pretty hard becauseshe could say, Oh no, I just
happened to make that videothen.
But it would look very, verysuspicious if you that morning
had had your first session withher, and you know, you're aware
(46:41):
that you kind of got there andyou were just like, Oh god, I've
been holding this in here, hereit all is, and then that
afternoon you see that she'sposted that video, you could
kind of make a connection and belike, I think you're talking
about me, and I think that's notokay.
SPEAKER_01 (46:58):
And you know, like as far as like the the the last
three, like I I think that youknow, and I I think that this is
one of the things for for allthis, is that you know, the the
whole fuck around and find outyou are allowed to say whatever
the fuck you want to, you areallowed to you know be I'm
(47:19):
allowed to not have you in mycompany.
There's gonna be consequencesexactly.
And and so like I think withlike the first case where with
sniper wolf, like okay, that waspersonal beef.
There's a huge differencebetween making other people as a
(47:40):
whole feel uncomfortable.
So, like, I mean, the rest ofthese with the the therapist,
the try-again liberal, you havesomebody who's out there
shooting people, you havesomebody out there who is trying
to uh get a whole groupgenocide, another person who is
(48:01):
taking things back to the 1920s,those people are are a different
story where they're they'rethey're trying to affect other
people versus Jack Films who wasgoing for one person in
particular.
Okay.
One person in particular, takethem to court.
(48:21):
If you really felt that he wascalling you out and and ruining
your life, yeah, he's slanderingyour reputation.
SPEAKER_02 (48:29):
If you think you can, then yeah, see him in
court.
Like let it be settled there.
But you didn't.
You showed up to his house.
SPEAKER_01 (48:42):
And so on on our scale of toxicity, where where
would you put this?
Would you put this as a greenpotato where you shave off the
green and you're able to eat thepotato?
Would you put this as a deathcapmushroom where you have a 50-50
shot of dying?
Or would you say that this is alime jello with antifreeze?
(49:05):
It's a life for last meal?
SPEAKER_02 (49:06):
I I know the answer should be antifreeze.
Right.
Like we're talking about doxing.
Doxing is bad, and somethingthat you know I think is the
issue here is that you may putthat information out with good
intentions, even for a badperson.
You may put that information outand be like, hey, I uncovered
this Nazi, like it's it's Bob.
(49:29):
But the internet does not havegood intentions, and something
you have to be aware about isthat you may have put that
information out, like, to behelpful and to help identify
this bad person, but people maynot act like adults around the
information.
See as a sniper wolf, like didnot act like an adult about
this, and you now lose controland you don't know who is going
(49:55):
to get that information.
And again, even if Bob's a Nazi,Bob does not deserve to have
some somebody show up at hishouse and shoot him and murder
him, like out of the blue,because you know, they saw this,
like, oh, it's this guy, andthen they looked him up in the
phone book and then drove there.
Does he deserve the rottenprison?
Yes, yes, he does.
(50:17):
You're gonna be a Nazi.
I guess I would have to say, andI I do actually want to give a
big thank you to my sister, whotook one for the team and looked
up how much antifes it takes tokill somebody, like the real NVP
(50:39):
here.
And the deal is without gettinginto all of it, it it depends
obviously on your size.
Uh, it also depends if you'vebeen drinking alcohol.
If you've been drinking alcohol,that will save you.
So I guess I'm gonna say thatdoxing is our our previous one
was you know, you made limejello and you like swirled the
(51:00):
spoon in there that had been anantifreeze.
Um, and the new updated, moreclinically accurate version is
this is jello, lime jello withantifreeze in it, but you have
had like eight shots of tequila,so you were partially protected
from it.
So like low antifreeze.
SPEAKER_01 (51:21):
I'm actually gonna have to.
SPEAKER_02 (51:23):
Ooh, wow.
SPEAKER_01 (51:24):
I'm gonna say death cap.
So I think that this is one ofthose things where it depends.
Because like how far you go withit.
So I mean, if you go if if youget the person fired, now
they're gonna be struggling, andthings like that by because of
the the actions that they do,that's one thing.
(51:49):
So it and it and it's just likeany other job where if I were to
if I were to go to work atMickey D's and I punch my
coworker in the face.
SPEAKER_02 (52:02):
Yeah, I hope so.
SPEAKER_01 (52:03):
So obviously I'm getting.
SPEAKER_02 (52:04):
Now, if you don't want to get fired, try Waho
instead.
They'll keep you on.
Wahoes.
SPEAKER_01 (52:12):
Waho?
SPEAKER_02 (52:14):
You are safe.
You can punch all the coworkersand customers you want.
SPEAKER_01 (52:24):
Uh so so yeah, I think that actions do deserve
consequences.
I don't think those consequencesshould be a fear of your life.
But at the same time, I thinkthat you also have to really,
you know, find a ground.
So, like, just as we were kindof saying before, or as you were
(52:46):
saying before, that how far doesthat line go, or how long does
that line last?
So looking at the the therapistI was talking about before, when
I looked her up by name, youstill saw the the the whole
video of the trauma dumping, butit was a little bit lower on the
Google scale now that it wasbeen two almost three years.
(53:10):
Somebody like the ConnorEstelle, his name is gonna be
all over the place for a goodlong while.
But again, I think that ifyou're if you're talking about
genocide, then yeah, youprobably should have your name
related to that for the case.
SPEAKER_02 (53:25):
I guess again, the thing with doxing is that you
were publishing this informationwithout the person's agreement,
and that's where it gets weird,is that these people, you know,
kind of in conventional speak,they dox themselves.
They published identifiableinformation about themselves
without their own permission.
(53:47):
And that that's a hundredpercent like I don't feel bad
for you.
Where I do feel bad about is ifsomebody says, Hey, here's this
person, and you put thatinformation out, and even if
again, you're doing it with thebest of intentions, and this is
why I think there's why doxingis so bad, you can have the
purest intentions, like for thistherapist, and you put it out
there, and you're like, Hey, shesaid this, and that's like super
(54:10):
not okay, and here's why.
And you mention her name, likeher real government name, and
somebody then in a state of mindthat's like really upset,
because you know, this may besomebody who needs to be in
therapy or is in therapy and isnot doing too hot, and they see
your video and they're like, yo,fuck this woman.
(54:30):
And they go and buy a gun andand go shoot her.
That is a very real thing thatyou have to think about, like
when you dox somebody, that youdon't control that information
that you're putting out there.
And you again, you did it withpure intentions.
You wanted people to know here'swho she is, here's what she
said, here's why that's wrong.
But you don't know how peoplewill use that.
(54:53):
And that's not yourresponsibility and your fault,
but you do have to keep that inthe back of your head that,
like, what is the worst casescenario?
Death.
SPEAKER_01 (55:04):
But even like the the last three, like, I would
still call that doxing justbecause of the fact that you
know, like the the SiloHendricks, it's not like she
went out there and said, Hi, I'mMiss Hendrix, and I'm a racist,
you know, calling afive-year-old with the N-word.
People or the video went viral,and somebody was able to say,
(55:24):
Oh, I know.
SPEAKER_02 (55:25):
That's true, yeah, that is doxing.
SPEAKER_01 (55:27):
And then gave out her public information.
The same thing with Connor, heonly gave his first name.
Somebody was able to look him upand give out his last name.
Rittenhouse, I mean, yeah, thenews kind of doxed him, but you
know, it is still like it's notlike the the the last three were
(55:49):
like, you know what?
I want everybody to know thatthat's true.
SPEAKER_02 (55:54):
I guess the difference really comes down to
like, you know, how misbehavingis your misbehavior.
Because once it crosses thatline of like, I love fascism,
yay! Oh, you get what you got.
Like, I don't I don't feel bad,you lost your job.
When it's a hey, you made avideo about me that I'm really
uncomfortable with and I'mreally mad, and you know, I'm
(56:17):
gonna like publish this aboutyou to shame you, and something
bad happens, then it's a littlebit different because it's like
I feel like we maybe could havehandled this better.
Again, I still think it's not afull for me, it's not a full-on
antiphrase because I think ithas some uses.
(56:38):
I think public shaming is a goodthing sometimes.
But I think we do just it canturn deadly, and we do have
instances of it turning deadly,and I think that's something you
have to keep in mind at alltimes, like when you decide am I
going to do this or not, andthat's why I give it that that
ranking.
SPEAKER_01 (56:59):
So if you have any differences of opinions and want
to dox Lindsay or Christopher,you it feels weird to say your
full name like that.
Please feel free to write us attoxic at awesome lifespills.com,
(57:23):
or you can find us on Blue Sky,TikTok, X, Facebook.
Well, it's still up there.
SPEAKER_02 (57:31):
Oh, that's true, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (57:33):
And please follow us.
And until next time, I've beenChristopher Patchett, LCSW.
SPEAKER_02 (57:39):
And I've been Lindsay McLean.
SPEAKER_01 (57:41):
Bye.
SPEAKER_02 (57:43):
Bye.
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