March 4, 2025 • 46 mins
In a world where digital connections often come with emotional detachment, ghosting has become a prevalent topic. Lindsay McClain and Christopher Patchet, LCSW dive deep into the reasons behind ghosting, exploring personal anecdotes that range from humorous to heart-wrenching. With statistics revealing that a staggering percentage of young adults have experienced ghosting, the conversation expands beyond just dating into friendships and professional relationships.
Listeners will find insights into the psychological implications of being ghosted, alongside discussions about empathy and emotional communication. The hosts examine whether society's increasing reliance on technology is contributing to a decline in confrontation skills and curiosity about others' feelings.
This episode aims to challenge listeners to reflect on their relationship habits and consider the importance of open dialogue in fostering meaningful connections. Join us for this thought-provoking discussion filled with laughter, stories, and valuable takeaways. Don’t forget to subscribe and engage with your own ghosting experiences—we would love to hear from you!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people intotheir simplest ingredients.
I'm your host for this week,lindsay McLean, and with me is
my fantastic co-host.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Christopher Patchett, LCSW.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Have you ever ghosted somebody before?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yes, once.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Once you ghosted somebody.
And have you ever been ghosted?
Yes, once a million timesGhosted, yes, once.
Million time.
I was about to be like dang,I'm jealous.
Well, just so you know, you'renot alone in either of those.
(00:59):
So ghosting is the idea ofyou're talking to somebody,
you're seeing them, you'reinvolved in some way or another
Oftentimes it's in reference todating, but it actually doesn't
have to be.
It can be in any type ofsituation and you suddenly
decide to, without warning orexplanation, cut contact with
the person.
(01:19):
You're here one day, you'regone.
The next Ghosting.
I also stumbled.
While I was researching this, Istumbled across some other
really bizarre internet termsrelated to it, and my favorite
one was marling.
That's when an ex gets in touchwith you on Christmas out of
(01:42):
nowhere.
I thought that one wasfantastic.
I want us to use that one more.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
What would be the purpose of texting back on
Christmas?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Have you never had an ex message you out of nowhere
on Christmas, just being likeMerry Christmas?
We haven't talked in like ayear and the last time we talked
was when you messaged me MerryChristmas a year ago.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Okay, yeah, I've had that Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yep, yep, that's Marley, Apparently glad the
internet has come up with a termfor that.
So the the idea of ghosting hasbeen around for quite some time
.
Actually, it really appears tohave taken off in the early
2010s, which, conveniently, isright around the time that
(02:25):
dating apps started to becomereally popular.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I can see that.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, which makes sense.
I mean, it appears to have beenaround since before that, as
dating apps were as well, but Ithink it was the two of them,
kind of in connection, that thissuddenly became a thing.
Interestingly, though, as I wasresearching this, I was trying
to find some statistics about,like, how common this is, and in
(02:53):
2024, pew Research found that29% of adults had experienced
ghosting, although for thoseages 18 to 29, that figure
jumped to 42%.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
That actually felt low to me.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I was going to say that really sounds low.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah, usually we're like whoa, yeah, it makes sense,
like that's crazy or that's waytoo high, and now I'm just like
, I think it's more.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
So it was 41 for 18 to 29.
What was it for?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
for adults 29 and I'm assuming it didn't specify but
I'm assuming this is ghosting indating, not ghosting for for
other things yeah, that seemsreally really low I'm glad you
also agree with me on this.
But yeah, so, as I had said toyou, it's not just for dating.
(03:51):
You can ghost friends.
You'll also see it used inreference to like In the
workplace you can be ghosted bya prospective employer.
Again, it's anytime somebodythat's supposed to be talking
with you Just like boop, they'regone.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I was just thinking, again, it's anytime somebody
that's supposed to be talkingwith you, just like boop,
they're gone.
There's just things like I'venever been ghosted or ghosted a
friend.
When I think of ghosting afriend, I think of maybe a
one-time deal where it's justlike hey, do you want to go out?
Yeah, sure, and just kind ofskipping out.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
But I don't think of it as like ghosting a friendship
.
I have accidentally ghostedfriends and by accidentally I
mean it was I hate you all Moreso that it was like a friendship
and I forgot to respond back.
And then it hit the point whereit's like, well, now it's
really awkward to respond, Ifeel really bad and sometimes
(04:49):
you can come back from that andsometimes you're just like, oh
no, it's been like six monthsand I've never messaged this
person back and I feel reallybad about it and I just I don't
have an excuse.
I literally forgot, but nowI've been thinking about it but
I don't know how to address it.
That has happened a few times,I think.
In general, I've always justalmost every time I've been able
(05:11):
to come back and be like I'mreally sorry, I don't hate you,
I forgot and it's probablybecause I hate you and it's
probably because I hate you.
Yeah, that's actually.
I forgot that.
I hated you.
Hoo, hoo, oopsies.
So it's a very popular topic onthe internet these days, I
(05:32):
think again because it ishappening to so many people,
despite what Pew Research found.
Certainly, everyone who I knowhas experienced this in one way
or another.
I mean, I've been ghosted.
I have I ghosted one person fordating.
I will admit.
We'll talk about him later, butAh Ha Ha, man did not get a
(05:53):
response back.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Ah, ha, ha man.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
He ended every message that he sent me with Ah
Ha Ha.
Like every single message.
It was not a one-time thing.
Everything got ah ha ha At theend.
I don't even remember his realname, man.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I don't.
Even I, I don't remember acycles you don't name either.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
See stop girl.
Ah ha ha, man, psychos whodon't name either.
See sock girl.
Ahaha, man, like they.
Just they are ah yes, so yeah,people are are talking about it
a lot because it is happening alot, to varying degrees, and it
may just be a a low level, like,oh, we started talking and one
(06:42):
person stopped talking and itnever moved beyond the talking
stage.
It may also be that these werepeople who had been seeing each
other and sleeping with eachother for several months and
then one of them just disappears.
That is also ghosting.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So I have a rule you are allowed to ghost in the
first two weeks.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I think that's fair.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Because, yeah, I mean , that gives you that
opportunity to say like, yeah,I'm starting to get to know this
person and there's like nothingthat we have in common.
Yeah, I just really don't feellike telling them anything.
But after two weeks, like like,yeah, I, I think there's some
kind of explanation that'sneeded I think so too.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I think if you've met in person, especially if you've
slept together, you owe theother person an explanation for
why.
Um, and this was why, with ahha ha, man, I just I let it die
because we had never met, we hadjust been talking to me.
The conversation was horrific.
I don't know if he picked up onthat.
(07:52):
I mean, I think it's nice,obviously, to say something to
the other person, but sometimesthere's nothing just really big
that you want to point out, tobe like hey, I'm not feeling it,
not feeling big that you wantto point out to be like hey, I'm
not feeling it, I'm not feelingthe ah-ha-ha's.
Maybe don't do that anymore.
You kind of let it go.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I know I'm with you all the time.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Don't you dare.
But people are having thishappen to them after months of
seeing somebody.
It's not just a oh, we startedtalking and two days later the
person disappeared.
We've been seeing each other,we've been sleeping with each
other.
I've made it through severallevels of various interviews
(08:40):
with a company.
I've been friends with somebodyfor years and it's just poof
gone, nothing, no response likeradio silence.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
And so the internet has a lot of ideas about why
this might be.
Oh God, the internet with itswonderful wisdom.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Oh yeah, nothing to see here.
Everything's very factual, verycalm.
Ah, ha ha, you know we Don'tyou dare.
What if I saw a screenshot?
They'd all be in French so youcouldn't read it anyway.
But I'll have to look back andsee if I can find it.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Oh ho ho, that makes it even worse, so you couldn't
read it anyway, but I'll have tolook back and see if I can find
it.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
That makes it even worse.
Anyway, we start off on thenormal side of things of people
arguing that they actually careand they're trying not to cause
direct emotional pain, and soit's easier to just kind of be
like boop and disappear.
It may be because people arenot really feeling it with the
other person.
(09:52):
They may be angry at them.
That's a reason that was givensometimes is that somebody did
something and the other personwas like that's a no for me, dog
, I'm out.
It may be that there are nosocial consequences or
accountability to doing that topeople in this day and age.
It's also a possibility.
Or hear me out, hear me out.
(10:14):
Everyone who ghosts is actuallya covert, narcissistic,
stonewalling, emotional,passive-aggressive abuser
emotional passive-aggressiveabuser.
It's like Oprah with the carsand you get some narcissism and
(10:36):
you get some narcissism.
Oh God, yeah, I kept runninginto that and it goes really
deep.
I mean statistically,statistically, one of these
people out there who is out hereghosting people is a covert,
narcissistic, stonewalling,emotional, passive, aggressive
abuser, but like not everyone.
(11:00):
And then there's this likepanic associated with it too.
It's like, are we maybe as asociety, becoming less
empathetic?
The american psychologicalassociation actually has an
entire podcast episode that'stitled, speaking of psychology
the decline of empathy and therise of narcissism I think I I
(11:24):
actually will have to say, Ithink that's actually a sign of
empathy, because no, I mean.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
So, hear me out, hear me out you know like part of it
is that, because I know the onetime that I I ghosted somebody,
it was because I really didn'twant to.
Partly it was because I didn'twant to hear any like callback
and at the same time I didn'twant to hear that feeling bad.
So I knew what I was doing, orI knew what I, if I were to say
(11:56):
something that I would make theother person feel bad.
So at least there's that aspectof empathy that you know that
what the other person is goingto be going through, I mean the
way that you kind of go about itof like I don't want to make
this other person feel bad, sotherefore I'll just continue on
(12:17):
with my life.
It's probably not the nicestthing, but I don't think that is
a call of um anti-epathy and Iwould agree with that.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
I mean, on the one hand, if you have ever been
ghosted, you know the distressthat it causes.
I mean like, why is this personnot responding to me like come
on?
But I do mean again, that's whyI ghosted.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Ah, ha, ha man, I just I don't want to get into
that with you.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
No, I can't.
I'm just like remembering thosemessages, but now reading them
with like in the French accentMakes it 10 times worse.
Oh, no, him, yes.
(13:21):
Was it stuff that necessarilywould have made a big difference
in him looking for somebody todate?
Probably not.
It was probably not stuff thathe was going to be able to carry
over onto anything else or toany other women and be like
right, I'm going to remember notto do this or not to do that,
because some of it was justpersonal preference type thing.
I was like I don't want to getinto that.
(13:42):
And again, in that case we hadnever met in person, we had only
chatted online.
For for a little bit it's, itis sometimes just easier, even
though you know you should.
It's like it's going to turninto a whole thing.
It's going to end badly.
At least this way we can bothjust kind of like disappear into
(14:03):
the night and never think abouteach other again.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I wish oh God, I think I told you about the time
that the one time that I ghostedyeah, I did, I don't Did you
yeah.
So we talked online for alittle while we met up once she
was pretty fucking annoying,ouch and so she asked him on my
(14:35):
job and I showed her like mybusiness card.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Oh right, I remember this chick.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yep.
And so she took it, she lookedat it and then she put it in her
pocket.
I was like, oh, what are youdoing?
She's like uh, you know, uhlaughed like, made a joke,
laughed about it, and then thatwas that I ghosted her.
And like a month later, youknow I I get a phone call at my
(15:00):
office and pick it up and she'slike chris, like uh, yeah, she's
like hey, this is I forget hername.
And I was like oh, hey, hey,didn't we have a good time?
Like I, I thought that we werehaving a really good time blah,
blah, blah.
I'm like yeah, I got a client,gotta go.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Bye.
I mean, yeah, that's one ofthose was like ooh, you should
have gotten the message.
I mean, the one time that I gotghosted and that I confronted
the person about it, it had.
You know, we had met up acouple times, it had been fine,
but and then suddenly, out ofnowhere, he just stopped
(15:50):
responding and I waited about aweek and then finally was like
you know what, if you don't wantto meet again, that is okay.
But I think you owe me anexplanation about why, like, I
don't think it's cool that youjust you go from like yeah,
we're chatting, everything'sfine, to nothing.
And then he responded and hewas like well, it was just, you
(16:13):
know the I can't believe I'mputting this out on air, but
it's more a shame to him thananything.
He was like well, it was the.
The sex just wasn't what I wasexpecting.
And I was like was it because Imade you use protection?
He was like yeah, I was likewell, now, I don't feel bad at
(16:33):
all.
You and your four-year-olddaughter was that or five, I
can't remember.
You guys have fun, we'll not betalking to you ever again.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
You know what?
I think that that's a goodghost.
I think that that's a good,good ghost.
You know if, if that was thethe important thing to him, that
, um, yeah, that that deservesOkay cool, you know whatever.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, it was one of those.
As soon as he wrote that back,I was like oh, I know exactly
what this is in reference to.
And now, like all of myconflicted feelings gone,
Absolutely gone, oh God, I know.
(17:22):
But I think the issue probablyin general for most cases of
ghosting sure they're thenarcissist, Sure they're the
ones like this, where you'relike, oh, it's more so that
people probably don'tnecessarily have the ability to
effectively communicate what itis they want, Like I think
that's something that westruggle with in society right
(17:42):
now and, speaking of this week'sepisode, is brought to you by
the word apathetic.
That's right, kids, we have awhole new segment that I finally
remembered to add in.
So we had talked not too longago again about this idea that,
like, we need to be using theproper words to describe our
(18:05):
feelings, and just being like Ifeel sad, I feel mad, is not
necessarily the best use of ourlanguage.
It doesn't properly show all ofthe various emotions you can
have and it means that you'rereally limiting yourself to what
you can say and how you candescribe your feelings.
And so I had suggested to youPatches that we start adding in
(18:28):
a word of the week, each episodeto help remind all of us.
Either it's a brand new wordfor you congrats, you have a new
vocabulary word Either it'sjust a word you're like oh yeah,
I can use that to describe myfeelings.
And so this week's word isapathetic, which means
uninterested, detached,indifferent, you are meh, you do
(18:52):
not care.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, yeah, I'll agree with that.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
I thought it was also a good word to use for ghosting
.
I'm trying to think like is itreally apathy, or I would argue
that in many cases, there issome apathy.
You, you just don't care enough.
You're indifferent to the otherperson, to their, their
(19:24):
feelings, to what's going on.
Again, this is not the kind oflike the situation I think that
you and I have experienced wherewe're like, oh, this was bad,
like I think we all kind of know.
This is more in terms of likepeople who are maybe a little
bit further along in the process.
Again, you've, you've knownthis other person for a while
now and you just cut it off.
I think there is something tosay.
(19:45):
It's like you're, you'redetached from the situation,
like you don't have a lot offeelings.
If you can just be like yeah,like, yeah, I've.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I've been seeing you for two months and we've slept
together a couple times and I'mjust like yeah, bye yeah, I, I
think longer term like yeah,that's probably more apathetic
and I think, for the most of it,you know, kind of going back to
(20:13):
what I was saying before about,like you know, I do think that
you know there is a level ofempathy, realizing knowing that
what you're doing is going tocause the other person to feel.
I think one of the things thatwe do get confused with is
empathetic and sympathetic.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yes, there is a difference, which we're gonna be
talking about really, reallysoon.
But, yeah, I think there isoftentimes a level of empathy
that might come with ghosting.
I do think that in some cases,people are not feeling that
empathy at all, like we've lostthe touch of reality that says
(20:55):
like hey, there's another personat the other end of this and
again, you guys have been seeingeach other for a while, you
guys have been talking for awhile and you've just like nah,
there wasn't anything, anythingthat I could point out to you,
and be like I don't like this.
You said this thing right hereand that made me super
uncomfortable, and so I thinkthis is not going to work and
(21:17):
I'd like to end it Like youcouldn't even think of one thing
to point out to the person, tobe like no, you're just going to
disappear without sayinganything.
That, to me, says that you, toa certain extent, are apathetic
about whatever it is the, therelationship, all that I, I'm, I
(21:38):
don't know, I, I don't thinkthat again, I don't think that
is a sign of apathy.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Um, I would think of apathy as being like.
I would think that apathy wouldbe something like we didn't
talk that long.
I didn't't have any feelingsfor this person.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Therefore, they didn't have any feelings for me
you for a couple of months and Iam so detached from it that I
can just walk away To me.
That's not.
(22:16):
That means you weren't investedin relationship, like if you
can just walk away from it fromone day to the next without
saying to the person hey, threemonths of knowing you, um, I
realized that you, you're a Nazisupporter, and that's not okay
with me.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So I'd like for us to stop talking now you know, and
that's why I kind of say, likethe two-week rule.
I think that those first twoweeks said like, yeah, you
haven't developed anything, likeyou know.
So it's not really expectedthat a person should have like
any empathy or show at leastshow that empathy to the other
(22:54):
person versus you know like yeah, if you been together for a
couple months, uh, you slepttogether, and things like that.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Like yeah, that that's probably apathetic once
you kind of pass that, that twoweek mark there is also the
aspect of in today's society,because we have to a certain
extent, kind of gotten used tothis and are expecting it.
There aren't a lot of socialconsequences or accountability
(23:23):
for when people do this, and soI was genuinely curious this is,
for once, not me mocking howold you are.
I come to you a wise one wholived before the age of the
internet.
Was this a thing when you wereI mean, I know, by the time you
were in like high school, theinternet was a thing, but not to
(23:46):
the extent that it is nowadaysin our lives.
You've got your phone, you'reconnected all the time, you can
see that text message and youexpect people to respond
instantly.
Like you know, back in the daywhich I vaguely remember, when
people had limited text messagesand when texting cost you money
and so you would try, you'relike I can only respond after 9
PM, type shit Cause, like I usedup all my you know, I remember,
(24:10):
remember that, and so that wasa different time where I think
you might kind of I don't wantto say expect less of people,
but there's maybe a little morewiggle room, and I'm genuinely
curious if this idea of ghostingexisted for you guys.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I yeah, because we would call it getting stood up
True.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
But that would be more of a we were supposed to
meet and you didn't show up,type thing.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
And there was because I remember a girl that I dated
when I was 21, 22.
Yeah, 21.
So this is like early 2001-ish,and so internet wasn't a thing.
I met her.
(25:04):
She gave her my number, shegave me a call and we were
supposed to meet up and Iremember, like sitting there at
the restaurant waiting for herto meet up, and I remember, like
sitting there at the restaurantwaiting for her to come over
and I was there for a good like20 minutes.
I was like I got fucking stoodup, like this little fucking,
and then, like shortly after sheactually came up and we made a
(25:26):
joke after that, like becauseshe was always late, you know
there was real time and Emilytime.
Ah, yes, she was always late.
You know there was real timeand emily time.
Ah, yes, so, but yeah, you know, like I pretty much I remember
playing in my head that likeokay, well, you know, great, I'm
never gonna see this bitchagain.
Uh, god, good times, good times.
(25:47):
But yeah, I, I think that youknow you, you got stood up and
then it was just probably likeyou, you know, like chances are,
you probably just never heardfrom them again.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah, yeah, I'm not surprised.
I mean, obviously I know whatbeing stood up is.
I'm not surprised that, like,that has always kind of existed.
I do think, though, that, foronce, the Internet is correct in
saying that the Internet hasmade this problem worse.
In saying that the internet hasmade this problem worse, I do
(26:17):
think that, with the advent of,you know, social media and
dating apps and all of that thatyou're just, you're making that
many more connections withpeople, and so people feel maybe
less of a connection in general, like a deep connection, and so
you're like I can find somebodyelse on insert dating app here
if I wanted to.
So like, yeah, whatever.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Well, I mean, you also got to figure, like you
know, like where do we findpeople?
Prior to that, it was usuallysomebody that you went to school
with, or somebody that you wantto work with, or somebody that
a friend of a friend, so therereally wasn't the opportunity to
fully ghost them.
I remember just by with thisone girl.
(27:00):
It was a girl at a pearsonpagoda, so I mean, it was like
one of these things wherechances are I probably wouldn't
see her again unless I went tothe mall and started stalking
her ass.
But you know, you know I'm notexactly the being a not creep.
Yeah, being the not creep that Iam, I pretty much took it as
great.
Well, I'm never going to seethis chick again.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that just certainly I've
experienced that.
I think people have an excessof options nowadays and so it's
this, it doesn't matter, I cando whatever I want and I can
find somebody else, and I'm justI'm not feeling it.
I don't feel like respondingand instead of taking the time
(27:43):
to be like you know we've been,we've been talking for a little
bit, I'm going to tell you why.
Or even just be like hey, notreally feeling it, have a great
life and disappearing.
Same thing for being ghosted atwork.
I have seen more and morestories of people online
applying to jobs, and this isnot like cold applying to a job
(28:04):
where you never hear back fromthem and you're like, yeah, this
is.
I mean, I've definitelyexperienced this.
Companies have specificallysaid we're looking for somebody.
You apply.
They write back.
I mean, this happened to melast year.
There was a company that saidwe're looking for somebody.
I applied.
They said, yes, cool, and in myline of work, you always take a
translation test to prove thatyou can actually do the thing.
(28:25):
I did the translation test.
I sent it in.
They were like got it?
Never heard from them again.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I think work-wise, like that's always been a thing.
That's where the line.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Don't call us we'll call you came from, which you
know was basically, you know, Ididn't get the job, yeah, I've
just.
I've also seen people who havegone through like multiple
levels of interviews.
So it's like it's not just thiskind of one type thing, it's
like, yeah, there shouldn't bethat many of us that you have to
contact to be like, yes, we'reinterested or no, like we should
be down to a scant handful andthen they're just like, whoever
(29:04):
it is HR, the company just nevergets back to them and they're
left waiting, being like do Ikeep looking?
What do I do?
And I think that's that whole.
There are no socialconsequences, because what are
you going to do in thatsituation?
Nothing.
It looks worse on you to get onsocial media and be like don't
(29:27):
apply to company XYZ, they'regoing to ghost you.
You look like you're a soreloser.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, I am, oh God, company xyz, they're gonna ghost
you.
You look like you're a soreloser.
Yeah, I, I, oh god.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Well, fucking job hunting on online is is a total
bitch.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
You know it.
It used to be where you, you,they were actually looking for
somebody and that's when theypost it, because people would
actually have to show up andbring in their resume.
So it was do we have to do ordo?
Are we needing somebody to thepoint where we're ready to have
like 10, 100 people like show upwith the resume, or are we not
(30:07):
at that point yet?
Versus online, it's like we'regonna post this and just leave
it up there for the next likefive years, yeah we'll see what
we get.
Yeah, see what we get.
If we ever do have this opening, then you know we already have
the resumes.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Exactly.
But see, that is apathy, theydon't care, and it's the same
way that a lot of people aretreating dating.
And it's the same way that alot of people are treating
dating.
That's kind of like, yeah, I'vegot my profile on Tinder, on
Bumble, on Hinge, on whateverthe other ones are, I don't even
know.
There's so many of them at thispoint and they're just kind of
(30:44):
all there.
And if I see something reallycool, great, like what's this
option here?
Yeah, you're talking to me likemaybe Nah, don't really care,
and boom, ghosted, okay.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, I'll kind of sort of Do you buy?
Speaker 1 (31:06):
my apathetic argument .
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Sort of Kind, of sort of Sort.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Of Okay, I'll accept it Sort of Kind of, sort of Sort
of Okay.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
I'll accept it.
So where do you see us goingfrom here with ghosting?
I well so kind of going, ordepending on which one that
you're going with, because oneof the things that you kind of
said about, like you know, likewith friends, I think that with
(31:37):
friends it is kind of natural,because of the fact that it's
such a long period of time thatyou're with the person, that
it's not so much of a ghostingas in ghosting on purpose.
But you know our needs andwants change throughout our
lives.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
So yeah, I wouldn't call that ghosting, where you
just kind of drift apart.
I think in in this case, whenthey say ghosting friends, which
means, like you know, you and Iare chatting and then one day I
just stop responding to you forno reason that you know of see
now I.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I think that that's massively shitty like oh yeah
yeah, I mean, like after 14years, I think that if you were
to ghost me, I I would.
I would hope that there wouldbe some kind of explanation.
Uh, um, and, and if you daretry to do it out, you know, I
(32:30):
will fly my ass to Paris, paris.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
You can find Ah Ha Ha man and team up with him.
Come after me, but okay.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
So, yeah, I think, as far as the world of dating, I
think that, yeah, it's kind ofone of those things where, uh,
just kind of like how I wassaying, like even back in the
day, where, uh, the situationthat I was in, where chances are
I probably wouldn't be seeingthat person again, um, it's very
easy to just be like, well, youknow, like I'm never going to
(33:08):
see him again, so fuck him.
(33:29):
But yeah, I mean, even more sowith internet, because of the
fact that, like you know, youend up talking to you know five
different people and you're kindof picking and choosing from
there, you know, and and kind ofdoing the process of
elimination.
And yeah, I, I think that, asfar as dating goes, like that's
probably gonna continue to bejust as bad, if not worse.
(33:54):
Um, job wise, just kind of howI was saying, uh, I think that
it is going to be just as bad,if not worse, because of your
you know, you see the same ad upfor, like you know, like years
on end and finally, after likefive years, you're like, well,
we got somebody you know and andI, I've actually gotten that
(34:18):
where I put in a resume and then, like you know years later like
I, I get like respond like youknow, like uh, hey, you know, we
checked out your resume and youknow you're.
You seem like.
It's like dude, I'm working.
I didn't have three years towait around for you to call me
(34:42):
up.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Oh, thank God, I've never had that happen.
I think the worst I had happenwas I applied to.
They specifically said we'vegot this opening, we're looking
for for somebody.
I applied six or seven monthslater.
They got I'd I'd forgottenabout it and they got back to me
and they're like hey, reallysorry that we're just now
(35:03):
getting back to you.
Um, we've actually filled theposition and I will admit I did
write an email back to themposition and I will admit I did
write an email back to them.
I was like good, because I'm notlooking for this work anymore.
You took half a year to getback to me, to remember to get
back to me.
Like at this point you might aswell have just left it.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
See, best of luck in the future see at least that,
like you know, is we forgot toget back to you, as opposed to
we held on to your resume fortwo years uh, yeah, that's worse
and now we're hoping to uh, youknow, do a interview with you.
It's like yeah no, yeah, no, butyeah I.
(35:50):
I think that jobs are going tobe just as bad, if not worse.
Only thing I can kind of seeremaining the same is friendship
, because if somebody is at thatpoint where they, just like you
, know, this friendship isn'tworking out and whatever they
would have done it regardless.
(36:11):
So I think once you kind of getpast that internet stage, that
that's where it's going to kindof start to decrease in the
numbers.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
I think so too.
I agree with you thatfriendship is kind of that weird
one out there where, becauseyou have those links to that
person, especially if you'vebeen friends for a while, it is
a lot harder for somebody totruly just be like Bye and
disappear.
Because you know where theylive, like you have all their
contact information, youprobably have friends in common
(36:46):
and for them to just completelydisappear.
I mean, the times that I haveaccidentally ghosted friends
these were not very closefriends and it was the type of
friendship was like oh you know,we met, we were living in one
place together for a while, andpeople are now living in
entirely separate countries atthis point, and so you've only
(37:07):
got that link online on WhatsApp, on Instagram, messenger, and
so when it gets broken, it's notthis like fuck.
That was my best friend of 10years who's now gone, and I used
to see him or her at leastthree times a week, and now
they've just they've disappeared.
It's really hard to do that,but yeah, for jobs and for
(37:30):
dating, I think it's.
It's gonna get worse for alittle bit.
I think people are waking up tothe fact though waking up is a
strong word, I think as more andmore people have it happen to
them, I think they're becomingmore aware of the pain and
distress it can cause tosomebody.
Where it's a oh, I was justtrying to be nice and I didn't
(37:54):
want to hurt anyone's feelingsso I stopped talking to you.
Well, when that happens to youthree times, then you're like,
oh, that's actually not fun andactually my feelings weren't
hurt.
My feelings were hurt even morebecause I don't have a reason
for why everyone stops talkingto me.
Like we start talking, we startdating, it's cool, and then the
person disappears.
(38:14):
I think that it's going to haveto get worse before it gets
better.
When people truly experience itthemselves and see what it's
like to be like, maybe this isnot a nice thing to do.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
I you know, when I I don't know, because like I think
to sock girl like I actuallyprobably would have had more
respect if she would haveghosted me as opposed to trying
to lie her way out of it.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Sot Girl was special because the lying was weird.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Or I mean yeah, and I think that you know there's
been other ones where I think Icould have dealt with the
ghosting better than you know,like I just didn't feel it, or
like you know some bullshit likethat.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
No for sure.
And again, when it's just atthe talking stage, when you
haven't met the person, whenit's within a couple days, yes,
it's nice, I think it is niceand we should all try and make
the effort to say to the otherperson hey, I'm just not feeling
it, and you know, leave then,because if they want to explode
at you, they end up looking bad.
(39:31):
In that case, if you have saidhey, I'm just I'm not feeling it
, and they write you back thislike long ass message being like
I can't believe you would saythat they look like the crazy
one, and so I think at the veryleast then you're protected and
you can point to that and belike I did the right thing.
But I don't think you have to.
It's nice, it's preferred, butyeah, when you're just in that
(39:59):
kind of talking stage and you'relike I don't want to continue
this.
So where would you placeghosting on our scale?
Oh, toxicity.
You think that it is a greenpotato.
It'll make you sick if you eatit, but just scrape off those
parts and you're good to go.
Is it a death cap mushroom witha 50, 50 chance of coma or
death?
Or is it a delicious but deadlylast snack, especially when
(40:22):
mixed with lime jello Antifreeze?
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Again, I would have to say high green potato,
because I think for the you knowand I'm curious what the
statistics are of the percentageof people who've gotten coasted
at what period because I Ithink that, again, like if
(40:48):
within the first two weeks I Ithink is 100 acceptable, I would
actually, if it was within thefirst two weeks, I would say
that that's just a regular,regular potato.
You know, like, like, yeah, butyeah, I mean, when you kind of
start throwing in like you knowlike months, or you know
sometimes even years, if it's asmall percentage, I would say
(41:12):
high green.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
I would agree with in a relationship.
I would love to know what thetimeframe was in there, because,
again, within the first coupleof weeks it's not really that
big of a deal If you have sleptwith this person, if you guys
have been talking for a while,even if, I think, even if you've
been talking for about like twoweeks or something and it's
(41:45):
been a very steady, like we'rehaving a good conversation,
we're there like people areresponding to messages, and then
suddenly you're just you'regone.
I think even that's kind oflike a.
At that point you owe the otherperson an explanation If things
have been very active.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah, because I kind of think after a week of if it
is a constant back and forth,after a week, if it's constant
back and forth for over a week,then you're starting to get that
whole thing of like, oh, thiscould go somewhere, you know,
like you know type thing andyeah, you know, like uh, to go
(42:30):
from text or texting back andforth like now you're.
Now you're starting to likekind of like, have your day
revolving around that you're thegood morning, beautiful, good
night, you know sweet dreamstext and things like that.
Uh, that you're the goodmorning, beautiful, good night,
you know sweet dreams text andthings like that.
Uh, that you're actually reallyreally shitty at I need.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Okay, you know what, you know what I'm gonna get on
telegram, because on telegramyou can like schedule a message.
And this is my issue is, Idon't remember at the right time
, but I'm gonna start sendingyou messages on telegram because
whenever I think about it I canjust schedule it to send, like
8 am your time and so, for thepeople who are listening to this
, just in case you're wondering,uh, about six months ago we did
(43:16):
a show about, like you know, Iforget exactly what the show was
on, but I was saying I don'tremember which episode it was
yeah, I forget what episode itwas, but I was saying about how
guys never get the good morningbeautiful text and things like
that.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
And then, you know, midget, short, fuck face over
here.
I was like oh well, you know,if you're so upset about the uh,
good morning beautiful, I'llstart doing it every morning,
just so you can see.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
How often have I done it?
Two, five times, six times?
Speaker 2 (43:48):
I think probably maybe five max, and that was six
months ago.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
To be fair, the day that episode came out and I
listened to it, I remembered tosend you one A couple days after
that.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
No, you sent it that one time and then it was like
then I'll say something likethis and then like, maybe, maybe
a week from now you'll send meanother one, Just because we're
actually talking about thistoday.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Fucking Lizzie.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah, sounds about, sounds about right.
Yeah, that's right.
I put all of you fuckinglindsey's together but which
spelling?
Speaker 1 (44:30):
I mean all there are a lot of different spellings.
All of them okay yeah, just justin general we're all cool, but
yeah, I think that in generalfor this it there's a very, very
small percentage of people whoare ghosting super late into a
relationship, a friendship.
(44:51):
All of that I think that partis probably not that common.
I would love to.
If I find information thatchanges, that I would love to
and I would be happy to changemy opinion.
But based on what I have seen,you don't have people that often
getting into committedrelationships and being like
boop gone.
(45:13):
I think it's far more often tohappen right at the beginning,
when it's not nearly as severe.
Yeah beginning when it's notnearly as severe If you have
ever been ghosted, if you haveever ghosted someone, especially
if you waited a really longtime.
We would love to hear from youbecause we want to know why you
(45:34):
can write to us at toxic, atawesome life skillscom.
You can also find us on unknownsocial media definitely
Facebook, definitely Instagram,maybe blue sky.
Definitely Facebook, definitelyInstagram, maybe Blue Sky.
We'll think about itTechnically X, but that place is
ugh these days.
So, we're trying not to go onthere, but yeah, we would love
(45:57):
to hear from you.
Don't forget to rate the show,of course, that helps us reach
more people.
Send it to friends, that alsohelps us, and until next week.
This has been the Toxic CookingShow.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Bye.
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people intotheir simplest ingredients.
I'm your host for this week,lindsay McLean, and with me is
my fantastic co-host.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Christopher Patchett, LCSW.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Have you ever ghosted somebody before?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yes, once.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Once you ghosted somebody.
And have you ever been ghosted?
Yes, once a million timesGhosted, yes, once.
Million time.
I was about to be like dang,I'm jealous.
Well, just so you know, you'renot alone in either of those.
(00:59):
So ghosting is the idea ofyou're talking to somebody,
you're seeing them, you'reinvolved in some way or another
Oftentimes it's in reference todating, but it actually doesn't
have to be.
It can be in any type ofsituation and you suddenly
decide to, without warning orexplanation, cut contact with
the person.
(01:19):
You're here one day, you'regone.
The next Ghosting.
I also stumbled.
While I was researching this, Istumbled across some other
really bizarre internet termsrelated to it, and my favorite
one was marling.
That's when an ex gets in touchwith you on Christmas out of
(01:42):
nowhere.
I thought that one wasfantastic.
I want us to use that one more.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
What would be the purpose of texting back on
Christmas?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Have you never had an ex message you out of nowhere
on Christmas, just being likeMerry Christmas?
We haven't talked in like ayear and the last time we talked
was when you messaged me MerryChristmas a year ago.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Okay, yeah, I've had that Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yep, yep, that's Marley, Apparently glad the
internet has come up with a termfor that.
So the the idea of ghosting hasbeen around for quite some time
.
Actually, it really appears tohave taken off in the early
2010s, which, conveniently, isright around the time that
(02:25):
dating apps started to becomereally popular.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I can see that.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, which makes sense.
I mean, it appears to have beenaround since before that, as
dating apps were as well, but Ithink it was the two of them,
kind of in connection, that thissuddenly became a thing.
Interestingly, though, as I wasresearching this, I was trying
to find some statistics about,like, how common this is, and in
(02:53):
2024, pew Research found that29% of adults had experienced
ghosting, although for thoseages 18 to 29, that figure
jumped to 42%.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
That actually felt low to me.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I was going to say that really sounds low.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah, usually we're like whoa, yeah, it makes sense,
like that's crazy or that's waytoo high, and now I'm just like
, I think it's more.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
So it was 41 for 18 to 29.
What was it for?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
for adults 29 and I'm assuming it didn't specify but
I'm assuming this is ghosting indating, not ghosting for for
other things yeah, that seemsreally really low I'm glad you
also agree with me on this.
But yeah, so, as I had said toyou, it's not just for dating.
(03:51):
You can ghost friends.
You'll also see it used inreference to like In the
workplace you can be ghosted bya prospective employer.
Again, it's anytime somebodythat's supposed to be talking
with you Just like boop, they'regone.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I was just thinking, again, it's anytime somebody
that's supposed to be talkingwith you, just like boop,
they're gone.
There's just things like I'venever been ghosted or ghosted a
friend.
When I think of ghosting afriend, I think of maybe a
one-time deal where it's justlike hey, do you want to go out?
Yeah, sure, and just kind ofskipping out.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
But I don't think of it as like ghosting a friendship
.
I have accidentally ghostedfriends and by accidentally I
mean it was I hate you all Moreso that it was like a friendship
and I forgot to respond back.
And then it hit the point whereit's like, well, now it's
really awkward to respond, Ifeel really bad and sometimes
(04:49):
you can come back from that andsometimes you're just like, oh
no, it's been like six monthsand I've never messaged this
person back and I feel reallybad about it and I just I don't
have an excuse.
I literally forgot, but nowI've been thinking about it but
I don't know how to address it.
That has happened a few times,I think.
In general, I've always justalmost every time I've been able
(05:11):
to come back and be like I'mreally sorry, I don't hate you,
I forgot and it's probablybecause I hate you and it's
probably because I hate you.
Yeah, that's actually.
I forgot that.
I hated you.
Hoo, hoo, oopsies.
So it's a very popular topic onthe internet these days, I
(05:32):
think again because it ishappening to so many people,
despite what Pew Research found.
Certainly, everyone who I knowhas experienced this in one way
or another.
I mean, I've been ghosted.
I have I ghosted one person fordating.
I will admit.
We'll talk about him later, butAh Ha Ha, man did not get a
(05:53):
response back.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Ah, ha, ha man.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
He ended every message that he sent me with Ah
Ha Ha.
Like every single message.
It was not a one-time thing.
Everything got ah ha ha At theend.
I don't even remember his realname, man.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I don't.
Even I, I don't remember acycles you don't name either.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
See stop girl.
Ah ha ha, man, psychos whodon't name either.
See sock girl.
Ahaha, man, like they.
Just they are ah yes, so yeah,people are are talking about it
a lot because it is happening alot, to varying degrees, and it
may just be a a low level, like,oh, we started talking and one
(06:42):
person stopped talking and itnever moved beyond the talking
stage.
It may also be that these werepeople who had been seeing each
other and sleeping with eachother for several months and
then one of them just disappears.
That is also ghosting.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So I have a rule you are allowed to ghost in the
first two weeks.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I think that's fair.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Because, yeah, I mean , that gives you that
opportunity to say like, yeah,I'm starting to get to know this
person and there's like nothingthat we have in common.
Yeah, I just really don't feellike telling them anything.
But after two weeks, like like,yeah, I, I think there's some
kind of explanation that'sneeded I think so too.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I think if you've met in person, especially if you've
slept together, you owe theother person an explanation for
why.
Um, and this was why, with ahha ha, man, I just I let it die
because we had never met, we hadjust been talking to me.
The conversation was horrific.
I don't know if he picked up onthat.
(07:52):
I mean, I think it's nice,obviously, to say something to
the other person, but sometimesthere's nothing just really big
that you want to point out, tobe like hey, I'm not feeling it,
not feeling big that you wantto point out to be like hey, I'm
not feeling it, I'm not feelingthe ah-ha-ha's.
Maybe don't do that anymore.
You kind of let it go.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I know I'm with you all the time.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Don't you dare.
But people are having thishappen to them after months of
seeing somebody.
It's not just a oh, we startedtalking and two days later the
person disappeared.
We've been seeing each other,we've been sleeping with each
other.
I've made it through severallevels of various interviews
(08:40):
with a company.
I've been friends with somebodyfor years and it's just poof
gone, nothing, no response likeradio silence.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
And so the internet has a lot of ideas about why
this might be.
Oh God, the internet with itswonderful wisdom.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Oh yeah, nothing to see here.
Everything's very factual, verycalm.
Ah, ha ha, you know we Don'tyou dare.
What if I saw a screenshot?
They'd all be in French so youcouldn't read it anyway.
But I'll have to look back andsee if I can find it.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Oh ho ho, that makes it even worse, so you couldn't
read it anyway, but I'll have tolook back and see if I can find
it.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
That makes it even worse.
Anyway, we start off on thenormal side of things of people
arguing that they actually careand they're trying not to cause
direct emotional pain, and soit's easier to just kind of be
like boop and disappear.
It may be because people arenot really feeling it with the
other person.
(09:52):
They may be angry at them.
That's a reason that was givensometimes is that somebody did
something and the other personwas like that's a no for me, dog
, I'm out.
It may be that there are nosocial consequences or
accountability to doing that topeople in this day and age.
It's also a possibility.
Or hear me out, hear me out.
(10:14):
Everyone who ghosts is actuallya covert, narcissistic,
stonewalling, emotional,passive-aggressive abuser
emotional passive-aggressiveabuser.
It's like Oprah with the carsand you get some narcissism and
(10:36):
you get some narcissism.
Oh God, yeah, I kept runninginto that and it goes really
deep.
I mean statistically,statistically, one of these
people out there who is out hereghosting people is a covert,
narcissistic, stonewalling,emotional, passive, aggressive
abuser, but like not everyone.
(11:00):
And then there's this likepanic associated with it too.
It's like, are we maybe as asociety, becoming less
empathetic?
The american psychologicalassociation actually has an
entire podcast episode that'stitled, speaking of psychology
the decline of empathy and therise of narcissism I think I I
(11:24):
actually will have to say, Ithink that's actually a sign of
empathy, because no, I mean.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
So, hear me out, hear me out you know like part of it
is that, because I know the onetime that I I ghosted somebody,
it was because I really didn'twant to.
Partly it was because I didn'twant to hear any like callback
and at the same time I didn'twant to hear that feeling bad.
So I knew what I was doing, orI knew what I, if I were to say
(11:56):
something that I would make theother person feel bad.
So at least there's that aspectof empathy that you know that
what the other person is goingto be going through, I mean the
way that you kind of go about itof like I don't want to make
this other person feel bad, sotherefore I'll just continue on
(12:17):
with my life.
It's probably not the nicestthing, but I don't think that is
a call of um anti-epathy and Iwould agree with that.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
I mean, on the one hand, if you have ever been
ghosted, you know the distressthat it causes.
I mean like, why is this personnot responding to me like come
on?
But I do mean again, that's whyI ghosted.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Ah, ha, ha man, I just I don't want to get into
that with you.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
No, I can't.
I'm just like remembering thosemessages, but now reading them
with like in the French accentMakes it 10 times worse.
Oh, no, him, yes.
(13:21):
Was it stuff that necessarilywould have made a big difference
in him looking for somebody todate?
Probably not.
It was probably not stuff thathe was going to be able to carry
over onto anything else or toany other women and be like
right, I'm going to remember notto do this or not to do that,
because some of it was justpersonal preference type thing.
I was like I don't want to getinto that.
(13:42):
And again, in that case we hadnever met in person, we had only
chatted online.
For for a little bit it's, itis sometimes just easier, even
though you know you should.
It's like it's going to turninto a whole thing.
It's going to end badly.
At least this way we can bothjust kind of like disappear into
(14:03):
the night and never think abouteach other again.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I wish oh God, I think I told you about the time
that the one time that I ghostedyeah, I did, I don't Did you
yeah.
So we talked online for alittle while we met up once she
was pretty fucking annoying,ouch and so she asked him on my
(14:35):
job and I showed her like mybusiness card.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Oh right, I remember this chick.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yep.
And so she took it, she lookedat it and then she put it in her
pocket.
I was like, oh, what are youdoing?
She's like uh, you know, uhlaughed like, made a joke,
laughed about it, and then thatwas that I ghosted her.
And like a month later, youknow I I get a phone call at my
(15:00):
office and pick it up and she'slike chris, like uh, yeah, she's
like hey, this is I forget hername.
And I was like oh, hey, hey,didn't we have a good time?
Like I, I thought that we werehaving a really good time blah,
blah, blah.
I'm like yeah, I got a client,gotta go.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Bye.
I mean, yeah, that's one ofthose was like ooh, you should
have gotten the message.
I mean, the one time that I gotghosted and that I confronted
the person about it, it had.
You know, we had met up acouple times, it had been fine,
but and then suddenly, out ofnowhere, he just stopped
(15:50):
responding and I waited about aweek and then finally was like
you know what, if you don't wantto meet again, that is okay.
But I think you owe me anexplanation about why, like, I
don't think it's cool that youjust you go from like yeah,
we're chatting, everything'sfine, to nothing.
And then he responded and hewas like well, it was just, you
(16:13):
know the I can't believe I'mputting this out on air, but
it's more a shame to him thananything.
He was like well, it was the.
The sex just wasn't what I wasexpecting.
And I was like was it because Imade you use protection?
He was like yeah, I was likewell, now, I don't feel bad at
(16:33):
all.
You and your four-year-olddaughter was that or five, I
can't remember.
You guys have fun, we'll not betalking to you ever again.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
You know what?
I think that that's a goodghost.
I think that that's a good,good ghost.
You know if, if that was thethe important thing to him, that
, um, yeah, that that deservesOkay cool, you know whatever.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, it was one of those.
As soon as he wrote that back,I was like oh, I know exactly
what this is in reference to.
And now, like all of myconflicted feelings gone,
Absolutely gone, oh God, I know.
(17:22):
But I think the issue probablyin general for most cases of
ghosting sure they're thenarcissist, Sure they're the
ones like this, where you'relike, oh, it's more so that
people probably don'tnecessarily have the ability to
effectively communicate what itis they want, Like I think
that's something that westruggle with in society right
(17:42):
now and, speaking of this week'sepisode, is brought to you by
the word apathetic.
That's right, kids, we have awhole new segment that I finally
remembered to add in.
So we had talked not too longago again about this idea that,
like, we need to be using theproper words to describe our
(18:05):
feelings, and just being like Ifeel sad, I feel mad, is not
necessarily the best use of ourlanguage.
It doesn't properly show all ofthe various emotions you can
have and it means that you'rereally limiting yourself to what
you can say and how you candescribe your feelings.
And so I had suggested to youPatches that we start adding in
(18:28):
a word of the week, each episodeto help remind all of us.
Either it's a brand new wordfor you congrats, you have a new
vocabulary word Either it'sjust a word you're like oh yeah,
I can use that to describe myfeelings.
And so this week's word isapathetic, which means
uninterested, detached,indifferent, you are meh, you do
(18:52):
not care.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, yeah, I'll agree with that.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
I thought it was also a good word to use for ghosting
.
I'm trying to think like is itreally apathy, or I would argue
that in many cases, there issome apathy.
You, you just don't care enough.
You're indifferent to the otherperson, to their, their
(19:24):
feelings, to what's going on.
Again, this is not the kind oflike the situation I think that
you and I have experienced wherewe're like, oh, this was bad,
like I think we all kind of know.
This is more in terms of likepeople who are maybe a little
bit further along in the process.
Again, you've, you've knownthis other person for a while
now and you just cut it off.
I think there is something tosay.
(19:45):
It's like you're, you'redetached from the situation,
like you don't have a lot offeelings.
If you can just be like yeah,like, yeah, I've.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I've been seeing you for two months and we've slept
together a couple times and I'mjust like yeah, bye yeah, I, I
think longer term like yeah,that's probably more apathetic
and I think, for the most of it,you know, kind of going back to
(20:13):
what I was saying before about,like you know, I do think that
you know there is a level ofempathy, realizing knowing that
what you're doing is going tocause the other person to feel.
I think one of the things thatwe do get confused with is
empathetic and sympathetic.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yes, there is a difference, which we're gonna be
talking about really, reallysoon.
But, yeah, I think there isoftentimes a level of empathy
that might come with ghosting.
I do think that in some cases,people are not feeling that
empathy at all, like we've lostthe touch of reality that says
(20:55):
like hey, there's another personat the other end of this and
again, you guys have been seeingeach other for a while, you
guys have been talking for awhile and you've just like nah,
there wasn't anything, anythingthat I could point out to you,
and be like I don't like this.
You said this thing right hereand that made me super
uncomfortable, and so I thinkthis is not going to work and
(21:17):
I'd like to end it Like youcouldn't even think of one thing
to point out to the person, tobe like no, you're just going to
disappear without sayinganything.
That, to me, says that you, toa certain extent, are apathetic
about whatever it is the, therelationship, all that I, I'm, I
(21:38):
don't know, I, I don't thinkthat again, I don't think that
is a sign of apathy.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Um, I would think of apathy as being like.
I would think that apathy wouldbe something like we didn't
talk that long.
I didn't't have any feelingsfor this person.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Therefore, they didn't have any feelings for me
you for a couple of months and Iam so detached from it that I
can just walk away To me.
That's not.
(22:16):
That means you weren't investedin relationship, like if you
can just walk away from it fromone day to the next without
saying to the person hey, threemonths of knowing you, um, I
realized that you, you're a Nazisupporter, and that's not okay
with me.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
So I'd like for us to stop talking now you know, and
that's why I kind of say, likethe two-week rule.
I think that those first twoweeks said like, yeah, you
haven't developed anything, likeyou know.
So it's not really expectedthat a person should have like
any empathy or show at leastshow that empathy to the other
(22:54):
person versus you know like yeah, if you been together for a
couple months, uh, you slepttogether, and things like that.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Like yeah, that that's probably apathetic once
you kind of pass that, that twoweek mark there is also the
aspect of in today's society,because we have to a certain
extent, kind of gotten used tothis and are expecting it.
There aren't a lot of socialconsequences or accountability
(23:23):
for when people do this, and soI was genuinely curious this is,
for once, not me mocking howold you are.
I come to you a wise one wholived before the age of the
internet.
Was this a thing when you wereI mean, I know, by the time you
were in like high school, theinternet was a thing, but not to
(23:46):
the extent that it is nowadaysin our lives.
You've got your phone, you'reconnected all the time, you can
see that text message and youexpect people to respond
instantly.
Like you know, back in the daywhich I vaguely remember, when
people had limited text messagesand when texting cost you money
and so you would try, you'relike I can only respond after 9
PM, type shit Cause, like I usedup all my you know, I remember,
(24:10):
remember that, and so that wasa different time where I think
you might kind of I don't wantto say expect less of people,
but there's maybe a little morewiggle room, and I'm genuinely
curious if this idea of ghostingexisted for you guys.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I yeah, because we would call it getting stood up
True.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
But that would be more of a we were supposed to
meet and you didn't show up,type thing.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
And there was because I remember a girl that I dated
when I was 21, 22.
Yeah, 21.
So this is like early 2001-ish,and so internet wasn't a thing.
I met her.
(25:04):
She gave her my number, shegave me a call and we were
supposed to meet up and Iremember, like sitting there at
the restaurant waiting for herto meet up, and I remember, like
sitting there at the restaurantwaiting for her to come over
and I was there for a good like20 minutes.
I was like I got fucking stoodup, like this little fucking,
and then, like shortly after sheactually came up and we made a
(25:26):
joke after that, like becauseshe was always late, you know
there was real time and Emilytime.
Ah, yes, she was always late.
You know there was real timeand emily time.
Ah, yes, so, but yeah, you know, like I pretty much I remember
playing in my head that likeokay, well, you know, great, I'm
never gonna see this bitchagain.
Uh, god, good times, good times.
(25:47):
But yeah, I, I think that youknow you, you got stood up and
then it was just probably likeyou, you know, like chances are,
you probably just never heardfrom them again.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah, yeah, I'm not surprised.
I mean, obviously I know whatbeing stood up is.
I'm not surprised that, like,that has always kind of existed.
I do think, though, that, foronce, the Internet is correct in
saying that the Internet hasmade this problem worse.
In saying that the internet hasmade this problem worse, I do
(26:17):
think that, with the advent of,you know, social media and
dating apps and all of that thatyou're just, you're making that
many more connections withpeople, and so people feel maybe
less of a connection in general, like a deep connection, and so
you're like I can find somebodyelse on insert dating app here
if I wanted to.
So like, yeah, whatever.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Well, I mean, you also got to figure, like you
know, like where do we findpeople?
Prior to that, it was usuallysomebody that you went to school
with, or somebody that you wantto work with, or somebody that
a friend of a friend, so therereally wasn't the opportunity to
fully ghost them.
I remember just by with thisone girl.
(27:00):
It was a girl at a pearsonpagoda, so I mean, it was like
one of these things wherechances are I probably wouldn't
see her again unless I went tothe mall and started stalking
her ass.
But you know, you know I'm notexactly the being a not creep.
Yeah, being the not creep that Iam, I pretty much took it as
great.
Well, I'm never going to seethis chick again.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that just certainly I've
experienced that.
I think people have an excessof options nowadays and so it's
this, it doesn't matter, I cando whatever I want and I can
find somebody else, and I'm justI'm not feeling it.
I don't feel like respondingand instead of taking the time
(27:43):
to be like you know we've been,we've been talking for a little
bit, I'm going to tell you why.
Or even just be like hey, notreally feeling it, have a great
life and disappearing.
Same thing for being ghosted atwork.
I have seen more and morestories of people online
applying to jobs, and this isnot like cold applying to a job
(28:04):
where you never hear back fromthem and you're like, yeah, this
is.
I mean, I've definitelyexperienced this.
Companies have specificallysaid we're looking for somebody.
You apply.
They write back.
I mean, this happened to melast year.
There was a company that saidwe're looking for somebody.
I applied.
They said, yes, cool, and in myline of work, you always take a
translation test to prove thatyou can actually do the thing.
(28:25):
I did the translation test.
I sent it in.
They were like got it?
Never heard from them again.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
I think work-wise, like that's always been a thing.
That's where the line.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Don't call us we'll call you came from, which you
know was basically, you know, Ididn't get the job, yeah, I've
just.
I've also seen people who havegone through like multiple
levels of interviews.
So it's like it's not just thiskind of one type thing, it's
like, yeah, there shouldn't bethat many of us that you have to
contact to be like, yes, we'reinterested or no, like we should
be down to a scant handful andthen they're just like, whoever
(29:04):
it is HR, the company just nevergets back to them and they're
left waiting, being like do Ikeep looking?
What do I do?
And I think that's that whole.
There are no socialconsequences, because what are
you going to do in thatsituation?
Nothing.
It looks worse on you to get onsocial media and be like don't
(29:27):
apply to company XYZ, they'regoing to ghost you.
You look like you're a soreloser.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, I am, oh God, company xyz, they're gonna ghost
you.
You look like you're a soreloser.
Yeah, I, I, oh god.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Well, fucking job hunting on online is is a total
bitch.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
You know it.
It used to be where you, you,they were actually looking for
somebody and that's when theypost it, because people would
actually have to show up andbring in their resume.
So it was do we have to do ordo?
Are we needing somebody to thepoint where we're ready to have
like 10, 100 people like show upwith the resume, or are we not
(30:07):
at that point yet?
Versus online, it's like we'regonna post this and just leave
it up there for the next likefive years, yeah we'll see what
we get.
Yeah, see what we get.
If we ever do have this opening, then you know we already have
the resumes.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Exactly.
But see, that is apathy, theydon't care, and it's the same
way that a lot of people aretreating dating.
And it's the same way that alot of people are treating
dating.
That's kind of like, yeah, I'vegot my profile on Tinder, on
Bumble, on Hinge, on whateverthe other ones are, I don't even
know.
There's so many of them at thispoint and they're just kind of
(30:44):
all there.
And if I see something reallycool, great, like what's this
option here?
Yeah, you're talking to me likemaybe Nah, don't really care,
and boom, ghosted, okay.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, I'll kind of sort of Do you buy?
Speaker 1 (31:06):
my apathetic argument .
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Sort of Kind, of sort of Sort.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Of Okay, I'll accept it Sort of Kind of, sort of Sort
of Okay.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
I'll accept it.
So where do you see us goingfrom here with ghosting?
I well so kind of going, ordepending on which one that
you're going with, because oneof the things that you kind of
said about, like you know, likewith friends, I think that with
(31:37):
friends it is kind of natural,because of the fact that it's
such a long period of time thatyou're with the person, that
it's not so much of a ghostingas in ghosting on purpose.
But you know our needs andwants change throughout our
lives.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
So yeah, I wouldn't call that ghosting, where you
just kind of drift apart.
I think in in this case, whenthey say ghosting friends, which
means, like you know, you and Iare chatting and then one day I
just stop responding to you forno reason that you know of see
now I.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I think that that's massively shitty like oh yeah
yeah, I mean, like after 14years, I think that if you were
to ghost me, I I would.
I would hope that there wouldbe some kind of explanation.
Uh, um, and, and if you daretry to do it out, you know, I
(32:30):
will fly my ass to Paris, paris.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
You can find Ah Ha Ha man and team up with him.
Come after me, but okay.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
So, yeah, I think, as far as the world of dating, I
think that, yeah, it's kind ofone of those things where, uh,
just kind of like how I wassaying, like even back in the
day, where, uh, the situationthat I was in, where chances are
I probably wouldn't be seeingthat person again, um, it's very
easy to just be like, well, youknow, like I'm never going to
(33:08):
see him again, so fuck him.
(33:29):
But yeah, I mean, even more sowith internet, because of the
fact that, like you know, youend up talking to you know five
different people and you're kindof picking and choosing from
there, you know, and and kind ofdoing the process of
elimination.
And yeah, I, I think that, asfar as dating goes, like that's
probably gonna continue to bejust as bad, if not worse.
(33:54):
Um, job wise, just kind of howI was saying, uh, I think that
it is going to be just as bad,if not worse, because of your
you know, you see the same ad upfor, like you know, like years
on end and finally, after likefive years, you're like, well,
we got somebody you know and andI, I've actually gotten that
(34:18):
where I put in a resume and then, like you know years later like
I, I get like respond like youknow, like uh, hey, you know, we
checked out your resume and youknow you're.
You seem like.
It's like dude, I'm working.
I didn't have three years towait around for you to call me
(34:42):
up.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Oh, thank God, I've never had that happen.
I think the worst I had happenwas I applied to.
They specifically said we'vegot this opening, we're looking
for for somebody.
I applied six or seven monthslater.
They got I'd I'd forgottenabout it and they got back to me
and they're like hey, reallysorry that we're just now
(35:03):
getting back to you.
Um, we've actually filled theposition and I will admit I did
write an email back to themposition and I will admit I did
write an email back to them.
I was like good, because I'm notlooking for this work anymore.
You took half a year to getback to me, to remember to get
back to me.
Like at this point you might aswell have just left it.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
See, best of luck in the future see at least that,
like you know, is we forgot toget back to you, as opposed to
we held on to your resume fortwo years uh, yeah, that's worse
and now we're hoping to uh, youknow, do a interview with you.
It's like yeah no, yeah, no, butyeah I.
(35:50):
I think that jobs are going tobe just as bad, if not worse.
Only thing I can kind of seeremaining the same is friendship
, because if somebody is at thatpoint where they, just like you
, know, this friendship isn'tworking out and whatever they
would have done it regardless.
(36:11):
So I think once you kind of getpast that internet stage, that
that's where it's going to kindof start to decrease in the
numbers.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
I think so too.
I agree with you thatfriendship is kind of that weird
one out there where, becauseyou have those links to that
person, especially if you'vebeen friends for a while, it is
a lot harder for somebody totruly just be like Bye and
disappear.
Because you know where theylive, like you have all their
contact information, youprobably have friends in common
(36:46):
and for them to just completelydisappear.
I mean, the times that I haveaccidentally ghosted friends
these were not very closefriends and it was the type of
friendship was like oh you know,we met, we were living in one
place together for a while, andpeople are now living in
entirely separate countries atthis point, and so you've only
(37:07):
got that link online on WhatsApp, on Instagram, messenger, and
so when it gets broken, it's notthis like fuck.
That was my best friend of 10years who's now gone, and I used
to see him or her at leastthree times a week, and now
they've just they've disappeared.
It's really hard to do that,but yeah, for jobs and for
(37:30):
dating, I think it's.
It's gonna get worse for alittle bit.
I think people are waking up tothe fact though waking up is a
strong word, I think as more andmore people have it happen to
them, I think they're becomingmore aware of the pain and
distress it can cause tosomebody.
Where it's a oh, I was justtrying to be nice and I didn't
(37:54):
want to hurt anyone's feelingsso I stopped talking to you.
Well, when that happens to youthree times, then you're like,
oh, that's actually not fun andactually my feelings weren't
hurt.
My feelings were hurt even morebecause I don't have a reason
for why everyone stops talkingto me.
Like we start talking, we startdating, it's cool, and then the
person disappears.
(38:14):
I think that it's going to haveto get worse before it gets
better.
When people truly experience itthemselves and see what it's
like to be like, maybe this isnot a nice thing to do.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
I you know, when I I don't know, because like I think
to sock girl like I actuallyprobably would have had more
respect if she would haveghosted me as opposed to trying
to lie her way out of it.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
Sot Girl was special because the lying was weird.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Or I mean yeah, and I think that you know there's
been other ones where I think Icould have dealt with the
ghosting better than you know,like I just didn't feel it, or
like you know some bullshit likethat.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
No for sure.
And again, when it's just atthe talking stage, when you
haven't met the person, whenit's within a couple days, yes,
it's nice, I think it is niceand we should all try and make
the effort to say to the otherperson hey, I'm just not feeling
it, and you know, leave then,because if they want to explode
at you, they end up looking bad.
(39:31):
In that case, if you have saidhey, I'm just I'm not feeling it
, and they write you back thislike long ass message being like
I can't believe you would saythat they look like the crazy
one, and so I think at the veryleast then you're protected and
you can point to that and belike I did the right thing.
But I don't think you have to.
It's nice, it's preferred, butyeah, when you're just in that
(39:59):
kind of talking stage and you'relike I don't want to continue
this.
So where would you placeghosting on our scale?
Oh, toxicity.
You think that it is a greenpotato.
It'll make you sick if you eatit, but just scrape off those
parts and you're good to go.
Is it a death cap mushroom witha 50, 50 chance of coma or
death?
Or is it a delicious but deadlylast snack, especially when
(40:22):
mixed with lime jello Antifreeze?
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Again, I would have to say high green potato,
because I think for the you knowand I'm curious what the
statistics are of the percentageof people who've gotten coasted
at what period because I Ithink that, again, like if
(40:48):
within the first two weeks I Ithink is 100 acceptable, I would
actually, if it was within thefirst two weeks, I would say
that that's just a regular,regular potato.
You know, like, like, yeah, butyeah, I mean, when you kind of
start throwing in like you knowlike months, or you know
sometimes even years, if it's asmall percentage, I would say
(41:12):
high green.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
I would agree with in a relationship.
I would love to know what thetimeframe was in there, because,
again, within the first coupleof weeks it's not really that
big of a deal If you have sleptwith this person, if you guys
have been talking for a while,even if, I think, even if you've
been talking for about like twoweeks or something and it's
(41:45):
been a very steady, like we'rehaving a good conversation,
we're there like people areresponding to messages, and then
suddenly you're just you'regone.
I think even that's kind oflike a.
At that point you owe the otherperson an explanation If things
have been very active.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yeah, because I kind of think after a week of if it
is a constant back and forth,after a week, if it's constant
back and forth for over a week,then you're starting to get that
whole thing of like, oh, thiscould go somewhere, you know,
like you know type thing andyeah, you know, like uh, to go
(42:30):
from text or texting back andforth like now you're.
Now you're starting to likekind of like, have your day
revolving around that you're thegood morning, beautiful, good
night, you know sweet dreamstext and things like that.
Uh, that you're the goodmorning, beautiful, good night,
you know sweet dreams text andthings like that.
Uh, that you're actually reallyreally shitty at I need.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Okay, you know what, you know what I'm gonna get on
telegram, because on telegramyou can like schedule a message.
And this is my issue is, Idon't remember at the right time
, but I'm gonna start sendingyou messages on telegram because
whenever I think about it I canjust schedule it to send, like
8 am your time and so, for thepeople who are listening to this
, just in case you're wondering,uh, about six months ago we did
(43:16):
a show about, like you know, Iforget exactly what the show was
on, but I was saying I don'tremember which episode it was
yeah, I forget what episode itwas, but I was saying about how
guys never get the good morningbeautiful text and things like
that.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
And then, you know, midget, short, fuck face over
here.
I was like oh well, you know,if you're so upset about the uh,
good morning beautiful, I'llstart doing it every morning,
just so you can see.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
How often have I done it?
Two, five times, six times?
Speaker 2 (43:48):
I think probably maybe five max, and that was six
months ago.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
To be fair, the day that episode came out and I
listened to it, I remembered tosend you one A couple days after
that.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
No, you sent it that one time and then it was like
then I'll say something likethis and then like, maybe, maybe
a week from now you'll send meanother one, Just because we're
actually talking about thistoday.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Fucking Lizzie.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah, sounds about, sounds about right.
Yeah, that's right.
I put all of you fuckinglindsey's together but which
spelling?
Speaker 1 (44:30):
I mean all there are a lot of different spellings.
All of them okay yeah, just justin general we're all cool, but
yeah, I think that in generalfor this it there's a very, very
small percentage of people whoare ghosting super late into a
relationship, a friendship.
(44:51):
All of that I think that partis probably not that common.
I would love to.
If I find information thatchanges, that I would love to
and I would be happy to changemy opinion.
But based on what I have seen,you don't have people that often
getting into committedrelationships and being like
boop gone.
(45:13):
I think it's far more often tohappen right at the beginning,
when it's not nearly as severe.
Yeah beginning when it's notnearly as severe If you have
ever been ghosted, if you haveever ghosted someone, especially
if you waited a really longtime.
We would love to hear from youbecause we want to know why you
(45:34):
can write to us at toxic, atawesome life skillscom.
You can also find us on unknownsocial media definitely
Facebook, definitely Instagram,maybe blue sky.
Definitely Facebook, definitelyInstagram, maybe Blue Sky.
We'll think about itTechnically X, but that place is
ugh these days.
So, we're trying not to go onthere, but yeah, we would love
(45:57):
to hear from you.
Don't forget to rate the show,of course, that helps us reach
more people.
Send it to friends, that alsohelps us, and until next week.
This has been the Toxic CookingShow.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Bye.
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