July 15, 2025 • 58 mins
Gold diggers have become a hot topic online with self-proclaimed alpha males spreading panic about women supposedly out to bleed men dry of their money, but the truth is more complex than the stereotype.
• Historical context showing "gold digger" term originated in the 1920s during women's economic transition
• Exploring how economic inequality continues to shape dating expectations in different cultures
• First date spending pressures create impossible situations where men feel obligated yet suspicious
• Age-gap relationships blur the line between mutual understanding and gold digging behavior
• The destructive impact of assuming all women are after money creates toxic dating environments
• High-maintenance appearance can signal expensive taste but shouldn't automatically label someone
• Communication is essential before jumping to conclusions about someone's financial expectations
• True gold diggers who manipulate emotionally vulnerable people rank as "death cap mushroom" toxic
• Most people would be fine with simple, inexpensive first dates focused on genuine connection
Find us at toxic@awesomelifeskills.com or follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Bluesky.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people intotheir simplest ingredients.
I'm your host for this week,lindsay McLean, and with me is
my fantastic co-host.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Christopher Patchett, LCSW.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
This week's topic is all over the internet at the
moment and I'm sure you have runinto it both online and in the
real world Good old gold diggers.
I did not know that this was are-emerged topic online yeah,
yeah, right now it's getting alot of traction because there
(00:52):
are all of these wannabe alphaguys sitting there podcasting
not like us, of course talkingabout how I don't want no gold
digger females.
They're gonna bleed you dry.
Take everything you own, babes.
Do you even have a savingsaccount and a job?
Let's start with that first,and then we can, you know, then
(01:16):
we can think about gold diggers.
But yeah, there's, and we'lltalk about this.
There seems to be this likekind of panic going around right
now that you know successfulmen women are going to come and
take everything.
These women are gold diggers.
You must avoid them.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I'm interested to see where this goes.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
First, we have to start off with, obviously, an
explanation of what is a golddigger, and a gold digger is
somebody who dates or marriesfor money and not for love.
It can go both ways anyway.
Whatever in gender, it is notspecifically gendered.
Now, when you say gold digger,let's be honest a woman pops
(02:03):
into your mind no, that didn'thappen for me okay, pinocchio, I
see your nose like even fromhere, I'm surprised that you're
not able to itch the tip of mynose from where you're at I'm
waiting.
It's crossing the atlantic.
Give another couple seconds,it'll be like I'll hear like a
tap on my window and look in,there it'll be.
(02:25):
But yeah, in pop culture, like,or in current culture, we, when
we say gold digger, we almostalways mean a woman and kind of
true that form, the word or thename gold digger dates back to
the early 1900s and the firstquote unquote Gold Digger was
(02:46):
Peggy Hopkins Joyce.
She was a former showgirl whomarried and then divorced
millionaires yes, that is plural, and this was during the early
1920s and this is when you firstkind of start to see this
appear of when women did this.
They got this name gold digger.
And I do think it's important tonote the time because we have
(03:10):
previously talked about how inprevious generations it's been
very important for women to kindof quote unquote marry up.
You want to make sure that theman that you're marrying has
money, because that's what youwere very dependent on.
And that's not to say thatwomen haven't worked.
They have always worked, but itwas historically quite
(03:34):
important that your man had ajob and money, because once you
got married you tended to getpregnant pretty quickly and then
once you have kids you're athome until you have enough kids
that have a big enough age rangethat the oldest can take care
of the youngest, and or you've,you know, you're past your
(03:54):
childbearing years and then youmight reenter the workforce, but
you have this big chunk of timewhere you are making, as a
woman, little to no money likeactual money.
You're doing work, you're doinghousework, but no money comes
in, and we're seeing in the kindof late 1800s to early 1900s,
(04:14):
all of a sudden there are farmore women working outside of
the home.
There was this big kind of rusharound that time of women who
started getting factory jobs.
There was this big kind of rusharound that time of women who
started getting factory jobs,who started working as maids or
other things.
And, yes, a lot of that wasstill kind of the before you got
married versus after you'd hadall of your kids.
But more and more there werewomen who were just like I got
(04:35):
to work and so women were goingout there and women were doing
jobs, which means women wereearning money.
They were maybe not as relianton men for things.
However, it's no longer the1920s, even though sometimes it
feels like it politically, godno.
(04:57):
In today's Western society.
We have all sorts of fantasticthings like contraception, the
ability to get divorced and havesomeone pay you child support,
infant formula, outsidechildcare.
Now it will cost you both arms,a leg and half your nose, but
(05:18):
we do have that.
We're sort of kind of thinkingabout equal pay for equal work.
We're getting there Maybe.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Look, efforts have been made.
You know some countries havemade better efforts and more
efforts than other countries,but things do look better than
they did, say, 30, 40 years ago.
Okay, I'll agree.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, it's say 30, 40 years ago.
Okay, I'll agree.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah, it's.
You know it's all relative inthere it's like, yeah, could we
have done more and better?
Yes, have we still donesomething Also?
Yes, so we have a lot ofprotections now for women so
that they're not so forced to bedependent on men.
That doesn't mean it's alwayseasy, and you actually
specifically talked about thisin your episode.
(06:07):
I think it was unpacking thefinancial strain on women in the
workforce.
About how women tend to be injobs or jobs that have a lot of
women tend to be lower paid.
It's not that women are seekingout lower paid jobs, it's just
that as women gravitate towardscertain fields, the pay tends to
go down in them.
(06:28):
Yeah, this inequality where mentend to make more money, men
tend to be better offfinancially than women.
So even where I am here inFrance, if I was working a
(06:51):
normal job, not being afreelancer, if I got pregnant, I
get six months of maternityleave that is paid and I am
required to have my job when Icome back.
Even with that, there are stillpenalties that are going to hit
you when you have children as awoman, as anybody who has
(07:12):
children, but when you take timeoff more or less, and that does
put you behind in terms ofmoving forward for promotions
and other things, so you justmake less money in general, like
on the whole.
But I do think it is interestingto kind of come back to our
main point of gold diggers thatin countries and Europe is a
(07:36):
great example of this wherethere is a lot more like gender
parity, like there's a farsmaller difference in pay in
terms of, you know, access tostuff.
I'm thinking of countries like,you know, the nordic countries,
sweden's great example.
So countries like sweden havefantastic benefits to both women
and men when a family choosesto have kids.
(07:59):
You see a big differencebetween a country like, again,
the Nordics, or a country likeItaly or Greece, where there's a
far bigger pay gap andexpectation, and those countries
are far more likely to assumethat the man pays for everything
, the man is in charge of that,and so it kind of makes sense,
(08:20):
right.
And so it kind of makes senseright, like if you are coming
from a country that has, like,that big gap, you're going to
assume that the man takes careof everything, versus you're
coming from a country thatdoesn't have that big gap.
So it's more like ah, you alsomake good, like I make good
money and you make good money,so why does?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
only one of us have to splash out.
Yeah, yeah, I can.
I can see that.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, half the splash out.
Yeah, yeah, I can.
I can see that, yeah.
So let me ask you then, sincethe the us is kind of like a
weird mixture in there and thatyou know the we have a bigger
pay gap than certainly someeuropean countries, but perhaps
not as big as other, you know,southern european countries I'm
using europe as an examplebecause I think it's unfair to
compare us to other parts of theworld, necessarily, but have
(09:09):
you ever felt pressure to spenda lot on the first date?
yes how were you made to feelpressure to spend a lot of money
?
Like, were you specificallytold, were women like judgmental
um?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
I think.
I think a lot of it comes downto well, okay.
So I mean basically like okay,so go now on a date.
Usually, like the first date'sgonna be something like uh, like
a restaurant or a bar or youknow, like a restaurant getting
some drinks and everything likethat.
You're not going to sit thereand be like, hey, you can have
(09:51):
whatever you want, just as longas it's under like 20 bucks,
yeah, so, so she orderssomething and, uh, she gets.
Okay, she gets something to eatis up to like 25 hours,
whatever, okay, uh.
And then conversation's goinggood, you're having a good time,
(10:12):
and now, like you know, she'sordering drinks.
Hey, could you not get the the?
You know this, just stick withbeer.
You know, like uh so.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
So I mean, do we need the fancy cocktail?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
yeah, yeah so.
So it's basically like you havetwo options.
You can either sit there andaccept the you know like 200
bill, or you say, like you knowlike, hey, you know, excuse me,
can you just get the beerinstead of you know like.
And as a guy like, okay, as aguy like, maybe I could do that,
(10:54):
but at the same time, like if aguy were to say that to you,
how would you kind of take that?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah it's and I understand this.
Yeah it's and I understand this.
I think we'll probably get intothis later kind of the shame
that goes into it, and like thefeeling like you can't say no if
somebody's going for stuff,because it is weird, like if
you're standing there and you'reordering and if somebody,
anybody, the guy I'm on a datewith, even a friend, if I'm just
out with a friend and they madea comment about like oh wow,
(11:24):
that's expensive, or like maybedon't order that one, it's a lot
, I'd be like excuse you, yeah,you kind of lose either way.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Now, have you ever like, suggested a place or a
date or something, and the womansaid no and then followed it up
by being like no, but let's gohere.
You know, suggested someplacereally nice.
Has that ever happened?
not that I can think of that, no, I, I haven't gotten that okay,
(11:56):
I was just kind of curious ifthat, because I know that I have
heard online, seen stuff wherepeople have said you know, I
suggested that we go for coffeeand she was like, oh, coffee for
a first date, how dare you?
Personally, I haven't seen that.
Then again, we've alsoestablished that, like all of my
(12:17):
friends have morals and ethics,and so none of us are running
around being like oh yeah,cocktails and lobster.
And so none of us are runningaround being like oh yeah,
cocktails and lobster.
You know everyone lives withintheir means within my friend
circle, but that is obviouslynot the case for everyone.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, it's, you know.
And again this kind of comesdown to like there's no way in
hell that I would ever suggest,like Mickey D's as a first uh
date coffee.
I might suggest coffee as astart point and see how things
go.
Or, you know, I might do the,the you know let's, let's grab,
uh you know, some coffee and seehow things go.
Yeah, but then again, you know,like, if things are going good,
(13:03):
then yeah, then it might yeahbut you know, at least you know
that, uh, let's start withcoffee and see how that goes.
If things are going down prettyshitty, you know pretty quick,
then you can.
You know that's the time whereyou can be like yeah, it's um 7,
30 is getting kind of late here.
I got to go.
(13:24):
Yeah, I got to go pick up mydaughter from a doggy daycare.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
I eat my house.
Yeah, unfortunately, yourexperience, I think, seems to be
more common than I would liketo think it is.
I always want to believe thebest in people and yeah, I just
see it over and over again thatthere are a lot of women who do
just go out and assume that'slike, oh, I can, I can not,
(13:54):
maybe not necessarily havewhatever I want, but there's
this kind of like, oh, but youknow, you're paying for it and
so we're having a nice time and,yeah, I'll order a second drink
or something, I think, withoutalways thinking about the
consequences that that has forthe other person where, when
it's you, you may start to likementally, you're keeping count,
like if I go out with friends,you know, and people keep
(14:17):
ordering drinks, at a certainpoint, you know, I may look at
that and I'm like we have hitthe budget.
I'm out for the night because Idon't want to spend more, you
know, but if somebody else waspaying, I don't think you always
do that and that's where wekind of like start slipping into
gold digger territory, I think.
And when you start getting intothat whole like I'm just going
(14:41):
out and you know, yeah, it'sokay if you order a second
cocktail, but your cocktails arelike 15 euros.
It's a lot of money.
And now you've got two people,you're paying for both of them
and you keep drinking them andyou go through them so fast.
You sure you don't want a glassof wine, really?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I'm aware that sounds very French.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
You're like, oh, a glass of wine.
But these are the type ofpeople who definitely are using
this and that is ultimate golddigger.
I think you were the one Idon't know if you brought it up
here or if this was just like aconversation.
We had the girl in New YorkCity who what was it?
She ate out every day of theyear for free by going on dates.
(15:27):
Yep, gold digger, a hundredpercent, like, how dare you?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
you know, but but kind of I remember we, it was on
an episode and and you know,this is where it becomes kind of
a problem is I know that youkind of said like you know, like
that's, that's sick anddisgusting, but at the same time
there's a part of me that'slike you get that girl like
(15:56):
there's also part of me when Isee somebody pull off like a
crazy bank heist, it's like fuckyeah, it's that same little bit
of my brain that's triggered.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
That's like I don't have the confidence to do that
or stupidity in some cases, butyou know you can look at the
other person and be like that'sone way to do it.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
You know what?
Okay, I'll give you thatbecause I think to like Luigi.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Exactly that's what I was thinking.
You look at that and you'relike, oh, oh God, but also Damn,
okay, see it's, it's that same,that same little part of your
brain, I mean it's.
It's still a problem, though,obviously, and somebody who is a
(16:45):
gold digger is a problem,because then what happens is
that this when stories like thatcome out, it puts everybody in
a bad light, like all women getput under this umbrella of like
oh, I saw this story about agirl who was just like eating
her way around New York city,and so now you know, if you're
(17:05):
dating in New York city, you maybe looking at it.
You're like shit, did I go on adate with her?
Like, have I ever matched withher?
Like, are there other women whoare going to see this?
And be like, ooh, that's a goodidea, and it just builds up
this huge amount of mistrustbecause you've seen it and now
it's there in your head and soyou're constantly watching for
(17:28):
anyone to maybe start to showthose signs.
And, like we talked about at thebeginning, there's this really
big push right now in the alphabro world of hating on gold
diggers, on gold diggers and anywoman who seems to potentially
(17:50):
be maybe sort of looking formoney is a gold digger.
You know you go out to eat andshe orders a drink.
That's a gold digger which iskind of in contrast to me, to
the whole like alpha thing oflike I'm a big bad protector who
has tons of money where mybitch is that, but not you,
because you're here for my money.
But why are no women flockingto me to hang out on my yacht
and spray champagne and danceand skimpy bikinis?
(18:11):
But how dare you expect me topay for our dates?
This is a flip flop.
Like I'm surprised you haven'trun into this.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
What, as far as like online, like yeah, I mean so,
like things that I have seen iswhere you are seeing girls who
are if he doesn't spend eighthundred dollars on the first
date, there's not gonna be asecond date.
Yeah, it's like eight hundreddollars, like fuck, like I want
(18:44):
eight hundred dollars you know,like I, I you know, I think the
most I've ever paid for a firstdate was two hundred dollars oh
my god yeah, yeah, and even thatI'm doing it wrong.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I think the most anybody ever paid for a first
date with me was like 50.
Was like 50.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Dang it and that was kind of that whole thing is that
we had like a really good time.
We were having goodconversations, everything like
that.
And then and she's orderingdrinks, but the drinks that
she's ordering are like theyweren't like the outrageous
drinks.
But the drinks that she'sordering are like you know they
weren't like the outrageousdrinks.
(19:26):
But drinks are expensive, youknow like.
You know a cocktail, yeah it's.
You know 15, 16 bucks.
You know she's not getting thetop shelf.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
You know $50 shot of tequila but you know still $15,
you know know times that by twois going to add up pretty
quickly yeah, and of course theextra thing with the cocktails
is that it's not like a beerthat you can slowly nurse, it's
you go through them fast?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
yeah.
So at the end of the ninth, uh,you know we made out and then,
you know, I walked her up to herdoor and then I went home
really liked her.
She said that she really likedme and then she ghosted me.
So from my perspective it's$200 to get ghosted.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, ew.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
No, that's a shitty thing to do.
I again, we've alreadyestablished the algorithm feeds
us very, very different things,but I have, in delving into
everyone's beloved manosphere,I've definitely run across these
dudes who are very upset aboutlike women just want me for my
money.
Women are only here for mymoney.
(20:45):
Now again, what money they havehas not been established, and a
lot of these dudes are kind ofbuying into it.
There are one or two at the topwho do have money, and so
that's a real thing.
But then it trickles down, andso you have guys who are
repeating this because they'veseen it online.
But, like I said before, do youeven have a job?
(21:07):
Do you have a savings account?
Are you putting aside money forretirement?
You haven't even gotten there.
So you have these guys whothey're nowhere near any of
these things.
They don't have a house, theydon't have a car, but they're
already worried about the womancoming, marrying them, having
(21:27):
their kids and then taking halfof everything that they own.
It's like we haven't even beenon a date yet, sir, Like you
haven't even gotten to thatpoint, Like, do you know
anything about me?
But you're already focused onlike you're going to come in and
take half of everything I own.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
So I have seen, like you know, like the clips of the,
the, the podcast of you knowthe guy who's like you know, uh,
girls don't deserve any of mymoney, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, and I hear it from uhsickens me to say this guy's
name people like Andrew Tate.
But the thing is, is that theway that you come across and
(22:14):
everything like that, that's allyou really are showing that you
have to offer?
Yeah, so you know, of course,if that is what you're
advertising as what you have tooffer, don't be surprised if
that is what she's looking forfrom you.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Exactly, and it can be mutually beneficial, and I
think that that kind of getsrolled into oh, she's a gold
digger, but you have some ofthese that it's like no, I think
everybody's on the same pageabout what's going on here,
everybody who's involved in it.
You know, you have these olderguys who looks no Money, yes,
(22:57):
and you'll see them with like areally hot young woman.
I mean, there's the case of umjordan hudson and bill belichick
.
Bella, is that how youpronounce his name?
I don't know.
He's, he's some football.
Is he the owner?
Speaker 2 (23:08):
or like, uh, some football something oh, is this
one that I I jealous, like superjealous of her.
Okay, maybe not.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
No, I don't think so.
So she's 24.
He's 73.
And people were, you know, allup in arms, kind of semi-rightly
so, about this relationship.
And people like, oh my God, youknow, she's only there for his
money and it's like he probablyknows that, like you look at
(23:37):
that type of thing, it's like Ithink at that point we're
probably both on the same pageabout what's going on.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
So this is the thing I will say, and so, like I don't
know that person that you'retalking about, but the first
thing that comes to mind is AnnaNicole Smith.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Same exact thing.
She was, you know, in her 20sand he was fucking in his 80s.
You could, yeah, probably notthe greatest looking guys.
You knew what she was there for, yeah, looking guys.
Uh, you knew you knew what shewas there for, yeah, but the
thing is is that I will say thatassuming that you're on the
(24:21):
same page is different thanknowing you're on the same page
and I would agree with that.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
That.
You know, we have no way ofknowing what these people are
doing their personal lives.
It may be like we had adiscussion about this and
everyone knows full damn well,like why I'm here and why you're
here.
Or it may just be kind ofassumed, and yeah, when it's
assumed it's like, well, surelyyou can see, yeah, but have we
actually said that?
Because then you fall into thatdeception category and that's
(24:47):
where things get really gross,like when you start lying to
people and being like, oh please, you know.
You know, I've just reallyenjoyed talking to you, it's
been really nice, would love tosee you again, knowing that you
don't actually want to see thisperson, knowing you have, you
know, no interest in, andactually like seeing them a
second time.
It's like you're just there forthe free mail or you're just
(25:09):
there to get your electricitybill paid, even though you're
five months pregnant.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Like I worked that one day.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
No.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Oh God.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I saw the perfect opening to squeeze that little
story in that you told me about.
I was like mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
opening to squeeze that little story in that you
told me about and I was like so,yeah, we, we demonize these
women for going for that.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
And again, we don't know if it's a you're lying and
telling this man that he's thelove of your life when secretly
you're just waiting from thekeel over dead so you can have
his money.
Wrong Gold digger, get out ofhere.
If you guys understand whateveryone gets out of this and
that has been spoken about Ithink that that makes you not a
(26:00):
gold digger necessarily, becauseyou've made it clear that
you're not trying to, you know,get a hold of this person's
money.
In a weird way, it's just like,yeah, I'm enjoying, I'm
enjoying you, you're enjoying me.
We're all on the same page.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
And so, like you know , especially like Anna Nicole
Smith, like after dude died,there was that whole court
battle, you know, with his kidsand things like that, and she
was coming out and you know,begging and pleading to the
courts that you know, this waspurely love, this was so you
(26:43):
know.
Again, I mean, could have been.
Maybe maybe he was the sweetesttalker on the face of the
planet.
If that was the case, I, he,should have wrote a book so
other guys would be able torealize what it is exactly, what
to say that women would be likeoh my God, that is the sweetest
(27:05):
, most loveliest thing I've everheard.
I personally don't believe thatshe, she was there for the love.
I would hope that he realizedwhat she was there for.
But again, like, unless that isactually like, hey, I'm here
(27:26):
for money, I don't love you, Idon't want anything, I'll, you
know, even if I'll give it up toyou, you can have your fun and
I can have my funds, but that'sas far as we're going to go.
Cool, both parties agree tothat.
Good, you know, more power toyou.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, yeah, we don't know.
There are certainly signs.
In a lot of these cases it'slike, ah, maybe not, maybe we
didn't actually talk about thisand maybe people thought other
things, who knows?
But this does have an effect onregular people.
When you see celebrities dothis, I think it has a big and a
(28:07):
negative effect on you know,you and me who are out there
trying to live our lives anddating.
Because you see that this is aquote unquote normal thing.
It's like, oh well, celebritiesdo it and somehow there, it's
okay when the old, rich dudegets the hot young woman, we
celebrate him for that.
So it's okay there.
(28:28):
And there are certainly circlesof women who celebrate the
woman who does that and it'slike, yes, queen, get yours.
But it leaves the normal peoplein a really weird lurch Because
then it puts all this pressure,I think, on men to not be stingy
on the first dates.
It's like, oh, you need to.
(28:48):
You know, spend money so youget the women, you keep her
attention, all of that, likeshow that you're worthwhile.
And then when that doesn't,when nothing happens from that,
then there's a lot offrustration and then that can
very quickly when you knowyou're already feeling
frustrated that you've gone ondates and it hasn't gone
(29:10):
anywhere.
And you run into one of theseyou know and it hasn't gone
anywhere.
And you run into one of theseyou know tater tots on TikTok or
Instagram who's preaching aboutthe evils of the gold digger.
And you see news like thiswhere it's like oh yeah, you
know, she's definitely, she'sdefinitely here for the money.
Now is there something else wedon't know, but the money is a
(29:30):
reason.
I think that's where you getthese guys who are like really
angry at women and just like,well, I'm not gonna, I'm not
going to do anything.
I'm pretty sure I've told thestory on this podcast before,
but it is worth repeating.
I had a friend who met a guyonline.
They were talking about goingout on a date and he basically
(29:51):
made it clear to her.
It was just like oh yeah, likeyou know, I don't spend a lot of
money on the first day, I'm notgoing to do this or that.
And she was like yeah, it'sfine.
I suggested we go for coffee ora walk.
He's like I just want to makesure.
You went to Gold Digger and Ihad already suggested coffee or
a walk.
You could have chosen the freeoption, but you're so obsessed
(30:12):
with, like, avoiding the golddigger that now I don't want to
meet you.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah, like when you're, when you're so focused
on like I, you know, I've got,I've got to avoid the gold
diggers.
The gold diggers are out thereand they are out there.
There are these women andpotentially men who are simply
existing to like, hoover up asmuch of your money as they can.
But if you go into everypotential date or every meeting
(30:39):
being like what are you spendingmoney on?
Did you buy the cheapest option?
Did you buy the second cheek ofthis option?
Like what's going on here?
Oh, you ordered the, the thisversus the that, that's, you
know, two dollars more golddigger.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Then you're never gonna get anywhere you know, I,
I think and and oh, I, I hatethat we're getting or I'm gonna
get, uh political onto this, butI I think that that part of it
is.
We're seeing all the time, andyou know, as, as men, we're
seeing that a lot of theseChristian nationalists who are,
(31:18):
you know, very, very stern onyou know, like not working that
they want to be the trad wifetype thing and they're really
putting it out there and,unfortunately, in the past five
months, for, let's just say,some reason, they've been coming
out in in herds really pushingthis agenda of how the woman's
(31:44):
place is in the home, and you'rehearing this from women, just
as much as you know the thefucking tater tots yeah, and
that too.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
It just enforces the idea of like, oh, women don't
have any money, women don't doanything.
You have to, you know, spendall this money to do this, and
it it also tells women that'slike.
This is an a potentially anokay thing to do.
Men are supposed to take careof you.
Men are supposed to pay forthese things.
A real man would pay for all ofthis stuff in some cultures.
(32:13):
Yes, you know, I'm not gonnaargue.
If I were to go to russia, or ifI were russian living there,
there's a much higher likelihoodthat I would be making a lower
salary than many men, by abigger difference than you know
here in france or in the us.
I use russia as an examplebecause I've lived there before
it.
You acknowledge that this isexpected.
(32:35):
You, as the man, are probablygoing to have a lot more money
than I am.
So okay, but yeah, it's a weird.
I hate it.
From every direction people arebeing told this, but then, as
soon as they do it, it's like,oh, but you're wrong.
You expected the man to takecare of you, and then he did
(32:55):
take care of you, and somehowthat makes you a needy bitch.
It's set up to fail.
This is what I have discoveredis that this whole song and
dance is just like it's riggedso that women cannot win.
You're damned if you do, damnedif you don't.
The whole point is you, as thewoman, cannot win.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
You know it's funny when you're talking about like
Varsha, and I remember when Iwas dating a Varsha woman and
made many, many trips over there, one of the beautiful things
was that at the time it was like84 rubles to a dollar.
(33:44):
So it was like I remember, um, Iwas able to take this one girl
out on like I remember I wasable to take this one girl out
on.
Like you know, it was the SkyBar in Moscow and I mean it's a
very, like you know, luxury typerestaurant, slash bar.
We were able to have likedrinks, appetizers, dinner and
(34:10):
dessert and it cost me for bothof us 86 bucks, nice and and
spent the entire night therelike having drinks and
everything like that, had fancyfood and it would cost me half
as much as that one date that Iwent on that we went to the
local bar and and chainrestaurant, local bar and and
(34:39):
chain restaurant.
So and then it is.
It makes me laugh because Ithink of like this one thing
that a comedian once said that Ineed a girl who wants me for my
money and is really, really badat math yeah, there are
benefits, as I'm sure you'veseen, to dating somebody from a
culture where you've got afantastic exchange rate I need
(35:03):
to start doing that.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
You could just come over, see, there you go.
Problem solved, problem solved.
So where do you see us goingfrom here with gold?
What do you see?
(35:24):
The future of fighting?
Speaker 2 (35:25):
gold diggers.
I think in the U?
S is going to be more, more andmore of a battle, just because,
like I said, you know, if, ifyou, if you just saw it from
andrew tate, then you could justdisregard it.
But when you're hearing it fromtater tot and you know you're
hearing it from from womenthemselves, who reinforces it,
(35:49):
then you hear it from notstereotype kentucky bob who, uh,
you know, got played becauseyou know she wanted to go for
burger king instead ofmcdonald's, and and you know,
like, yeah, you know you'rehearing this from all over uh,
(36:10):
it gets down to the point where,if you're seeing more of how
women are just using men formoney and then also there are
women who do that and chancesare just just as easy as it is
for women to find men who areoverly aggressive, it is just as
(36:33):
easy for men to find women whoare looking for just money.
And so if you're dating, likeyou know, two or three women
like this yourself, it's veryeasy to kind of just say all
women want, you know, just money, yeah, and unfortunately that
that's, I know, we've talkedabout this before.
(36:54):
Like you know, just money, yeah, and unfortunately that's, I
know, we've talked about thisbefore, like you know, like the,
and we talked about, like howone of us wants to do an episode
on all men.
You know, I think that this is.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
I'm waiting for the right time to do it.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
I think this is the time, or I think this is the
problem.
All women type thing is thatonce we kind of go into that or
nothing thinking is then we haveto.
we look at, at, at the peoplearound us and you know, so, like
I, I could sit here and saylike, well, you know, I I've
dated or been with a couple ofwomen who just saw me as like a
(37:40):
giant walleye, and you know,that's true I do, unfortunately
but you know, if I sit here andsay that all women are doing
that, I would have to look atyou and say, like, well, either
I I could sit here and say, well, I know her parents and I know
(38:01):
that her parents raised herbetter than that, or I I would
have to sit here and think that,uh, after 15 years of
friendship, that she is stillwaiting for that perfect time to
like milk, a lot of money fromme.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
So you know I'm playing the long game here.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
I mean, there was a $2 that you borrowed from me
that you never paid back forlunch.
That one day I think Fucking.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Lindsay, the worst part is it may have happened.
I have no idea.
The worst part is it may havehappened.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
I have no idea but but yeah, you know that's going
to be that whole thing with thator nothing thinking.
Is you know, if you startseeing it all over the place and
then you start formulating thatare nothing thinking, you're
going to place that role ontoeverybody, and then maybe a
couple people that you got toknow really well, you're gonna
(39:06):
say, well, they're the oneexception and that's just
unhealthy to go into arelationship, just like you said
, with the one guy where he'slike, but yeah, you know, I, you
know, uh, I expect this becauseI don't want a gold digger.
Okay, well, you'll find out ifthey're a gold digger pretty
(39:26):
quickly.
Yeah, it should be prettyobvious you know and and and you
know, rather than sayingthey're looking for the, the,
the signs or whatever you know,like no, just you're going to
have to play it out.
If no, just you're going tohave to play it out.
If she is asking you to pay forher electricity bill and is
(39:49):
lying about being five monthspregnant, chances are, yeah,
she's a gold digger.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yeah, yeah, I would agree with you that I think it's
.
We've got a couple bad yearsahead of us as we work through
the process of this and peoplekind of try it and go down this
road until they realize thatthey're sitting at the dead end
and that they have to dosomething different.
I think that there are a couplethings that people could do
(40:21):
that I would love to see usdoing.
For instance, on women's side,all of my friends, all of them
who I have talked to, like anyof my female friends, have all
told me was that we're okay withhaving cheap dates.
Like there is nobody within myfriend circle who is like ew
(40:43):
coffee.
You know, the whole point of adate is that you get to know
somebody, you chat and if that'swhere it ends and you had a
fantastic time, cool, then we'llhave another date.
But I think that we are reallybad about expressing that to you
know, just in general, to belike, yes, this is okay.
(41:07):
General, to be like, yes, thisis okay.
You know, we're not allexpecting you to drop 50 euros
or $50 every time you go out ona date.
You know, kind of as theminimum.
I think there are a lot ofwomen who are perfectly fine
with you know you go to whateverfree thing your city is doing
that day.
You go to a museum that's freethat day, or you know something
like that that is very low cost.
I think we need to do a betterjob of being upfront and just
(41:29):
kind of in general talking aboutlike this is an okay date, so
that men don't feel shame aboutsuggesting that and that there's
not as like oh, if I say likewe should go for coffee, she's
gonna be like this man ain't gotno money.
It's like wow, this is a normalthing, you know.
And then once we kind of likebring that down, I think that
that will help on the men's sidethe men's side the men's side,
(41:54):
I'm gonna be mean for a second.
Okay, I have watched men in mylife, people who are my friends,
people I just kind of knew, sitthere and be like I don't want
a gold digger, as they areactively trying to get with the
woman whose entire body screamsI love money.
(42:18):
I just you know, look, I grewup in a household where my mom
almost never wore makeup.
I wear makeup like three timesa year.
I did not grow up with TV orteen magazines.
I still recognize when a womanis wearing makeup, when she's
had her hair done, when hernails are done.
That is something that can belearned for people to recognize.
(42:42):
And if you are the type of manwho says I love that stuff, I am
here for it, I want it, I knowwhat it entails, fantastic, go
for it.
If you were the type of man whosays that's not me, I am not
interested in that, and so I cantell by looking at you that
(43:02):
there's a very, very, very highlikelihood that your upkeep is
expensive.
And if your upkeep is expensive, you are probably going to
assume that I'm going to takesome of that.
That is probably not the personfor you If you go ahead and you
see that can probably assumethat, like, maybe this is not
(43:25):
the person for me and that maybemaybe we should have this
discussion early about what areour expectations in a
relationship.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Go on so I I'm gonna chime in on that one here.
I'm I'm sure you've seen thevideo where the girl is putting
on makeup and she's, you know,showing what products she's
using and then puts like alittle bit and then there's the
price, and then you know, likethe dress that she got for the
(43:55):
first date, you know.
Then she puts the grand total.
This is why I expect you knowlike, you know like so much from
you know from a guy, because myfirst date cost me $500.
And somebody stepped in I wasthe guy who broke everything
down.
Okay, you know, you got thisfor this much, you use this much
(44:19):
of it, so that's, you know,bringing it down from $90 to 53
cents.
You know like, and by the endof the, the, the, you know, a
thing is like the, the outfitthat you got for the first date
you're going to be able to wearthat you know, multiple times
and you know you really don'thave to go out that far.
So the cost of your, from youraspect, is as good as a
(44:43):
mcdonald's, cheaper cheeseburger, french fries and large coke so
I have a problem with thatbreakdown.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
I mean, I I agree that you can't be like, oh well,
I bought this foundation.
The foundation was 30,therefore you have to spend 30.
Like, you can use thatfoundation so many times.
But breaking it down like thatand being like, oh, you're only
worth that's, that's a.
That's a gross comparison onboth sides.
To be like, well, I spent thismuch to look like this.
I'm talking about more ingeneral, that you can look at
(45:12):
people and make some educatedguesses about what are their
expectations.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Well.
So I don't think that that thatvideo was saying that you're
worth a cheeseburger, and Ithink it was just him kind of
putting a flip on him, becauseshe was saying that I put this
much money into my makeup, whichcame up to 500.
Therefore, you, you pay 500 fora day, and he was kind of
(45:42):
saying both gross in it.
Yeah, I, I think he was kind ofsaying I think they're both
gross in it.
Yeah, I think he was justbasically saying if you want to
go by that logic, you should.
You know, this is what youactually pay for.
So we can go out for, like acheeseburger, large fries and
large Coke.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Yeah, there's something about it still sits
weird with me.
I don't like her version either.
To be clear, like again, youcan't just like run around and
be like, oh, I bought theseshoes and I may wear them every
day, but like, because I worethem today, I'm worth this much.
That's not how it works.
That's not how dating works.
That's not how we like pricestuff.
(46:18):
Again, I'm talking about likegeneral appearances.
You can get a vibe fromsomebody Like I can look at men,
you know if we're going to flipit and you look at it, it's
like you, you live an expensivelife, you like really nice
things.
Okay, that's fine.
That is personally notsomething that I'm really
(46:39):
interested in.
I don't necessarily want thedude who's running around like
flaunting his riches interestedin.
I don't necessarily want thedude who's running around like
flaunting his riches, so I'm notgoing to go for that type of
guy.
I'm talking about men who are,you know, sitting here and
telling me actively, telling meI don't want a gold digger, and
then going for the woman who hasa much higher likelihood of
being a gold digger.
Do you see what I mean?
Speaker 2 (47:02):
it's.
And again, this is where I kindof break off from you is that
you know, like, unless they aredoing something outlandishly
obvious, like showing up in aporsche, you know, okay, you,
you can see what the theexpectations are and things like
that girl who likes to wear alot of makeup.
(47:22):
You know, okay, she likes towear a lot of makeup.
You know, okay, she likes towear a lot of makeup.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
There's different styles.
This is the problem with men isthat there's a lot of makeup
for the female gaze and there'sa lot of makeup for the male
gaze and there's all sorts ofin-betweens, and when you get to
a lot of makeup for the malegaze, she's got something that
she's looking for more oftenthan not.
She's got something that she'slooking for more often than not.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
It's your wallet, it's.
But but the solely kind of putthings just based on looks.
I think that again you're kindof hitting down a dangerous path
now, because night and I, andagain this is kind of going down
that path of, well, look whatshe was wearing, she was asking
for it.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
And that's why I said this is kind of going down that
path of, well, look what shewas wearing, she was asking for
it and that's why I said this isthat that is just a sign to you
that maybe you need to have aconversation sooner rather than
later about whateverexpectations from a relationship
that's not a like oh, I seeyou're wearing a lot of makeup.
Therefore you're a gold digger.
Therefore you're going to stealoff my money.
Therefore, fuck you, becausethat's that's wrong.
When you make an assumption,finish the sentence with me.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
You make an ass out of you and me yeah, but you know
, and that's that's kind of whatI'm saying is that okay, you
know, you shouldn't assume atall, like you know you shouldn't
say that just because of whatshe's wearing, that a guy should
expect that she's going to be agold digger, okay, you know, if
(48:51):
she likes to, you know, wearthis.
Certain we can kind of looselyuh assume, but again, that if,
if you do feel that, hey, youknow, she seems or she looks
(49:18):
like the type of person thatthat's, um, you know, going just
for the money, that's when youmake that, that conversation
just as well's, when you makethat conversation Just as well
as having that conversationwhere, if, based on what a
girl's wearing, you canabsolutely positively cannot
assume that she just wants it,and that's the thing it's like
(49:43):
having that discussion.
Do you enjoy having sex?
Are you fine with having sex onthe first date?
Do you want to have sex with me?
Okay, again, that's theconversation that has to be done
.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, and that's what I'm saying, for this is that
this is not an immediate turnoff.
I think men need to do a betterjob of kind of watching for the
signs up front to instead ofletting it get so far.
Because if you see this girl,you're talking with her, you
know things seem to be goingreally well, you're getting
these.
They're not red flags, butthey're beige flags.
(50:16):
You're just like, hmm, okay,it's something to keep in the
back of your mind, to keep inthe back of your mind so that if
she then suggests, oh, I knowthis, like really fancy cocktail
place, maybe now's a reallygood time to have that
discussion, just to make sure,because, who knows, maybe she's
going to come out and be like,oh no, oh no, sweetie, I'm
(50:39):
paying for you, I'm CEO of mycompany, like it's my treat, and
you can be like okay, cool, I'mglad we had this discussion.
It's just about payingattention to these things, so
that you don't end up you knowthree dates in and you're like
how did I, how did I get here?
Because you didn't payattention to the information
(51:00):
around you.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
I'm still going with the.
This is discussion that has tobe talked about yeah, it's a
discussion.
It should always be adiscussion but but yeah, I think
that if you're, if you're youknow, even with, like, the
science, okay you know.
If if she says about the, thefancy cocktail, and you know as
(51:23):
a guy that there's no way in howthat you can afford this, or
that this is going out of yourbudget, you know and you say
that you say oh no, this is likeas on my budget I.
and if she does say, like youknow, like, uh, well, I'm
looking for a guy with, you know, more money than that there,
that Now you have thatconversation.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
I think we're saying the same thing just in different
ways.
So from what I'm hearing fromyou is that I'm hearing hold
that assumption in the back ofyour head, then have the
conversation.
I'm saying don't assume period,but still have that
conversation.
I'm saying don't assume period,but still have that
conversation.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
I'm saying that the conversation is going to happen
one way or another.
I think if you were gettingsigns that maybe point towards
this could be an issue, and ifthis is something that is very
important to you, theconversation needs to happen
sooner.
I also live in a place where Ihave never paid for a first date
, but France is kind of iffy onthat in terms of like, it would
(52:30):
not be strange if I was singleand I went out on a date and the
guy assumed that we were goingto split it.
It's a little bit of adifferent mindset here.
Anyway, I'm sure we'll pick atthis one later.
(52:50):
On our scale of toxicity, wherewould you rate gold diggers and
gold diggers being women who areintentionally just seeking out,
or not just women, a person whois seeking out another person
not romantically, not becausethey care about them, but
literally just for the money?
Would you say that they are agreen potato?
You can just peel off the greenpart, you'll be fine to eat it.
(53:12):
Are they a death cap mushroom50 50 chance of death?
Or are they a delicious butdeadly last snack when mixed
with lime jello antifreeze?
Speaker 2 (53:25):
I would say that this is like a dead center, uh,
death cap, uh, I think that ifthis is something that is
discussed like and is agreedupon by both parties, that fine.
You know, like, if this is, youknow, how you want to define
your really or define arelationship, I, I, I don't
(53:48):
think that, um, anybody can sayyes or no to that, but but again
, I think that a lot of times,and then that the gold digger is
not as obvious as you know,like, hey, this, you know, like
(54:09):
I expect blah, blah, blah.
I think the gold digger is, youknow, especially nowadays, is
becoming more of the five monthpregnant girl of you know like,
hey, you know like shit's reallygoing down and my life is going
to shit and I just need twohundred dollars to pay off my
(54:30):
electricity, so that way.
But I really want to be withyou and you know, like blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, and youknow, you know, I, I said no to
that and, um, you know, and andthis is where I was kind of
saying to you, is that, evenwith that that saying no, she
(54:52):
kept on talking to me.
And you know, like really tryingand we've talked about this
before we're really trying todraw the guy in, and especially
a guy with a lot of empathy, andtrying to find that one thing
where, hey, oh, your, your daddied of cancer.
My dad's going through cancerright now and he was a vietnam
(55:14):
veteran and the va is not payingfor his medication, and and
again, you know, once they kindof find that that one thing,
that yeah, just like twist theknife in.
Speaker 1 (55:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
Is really twisting the knife in.
That's where it can be deadly,because they are not happy with
just that $100 that you gavethem to quote-unquote pay for.
The medication is then oh, andI need this, and I need this,
and I need this.
Oh, you're fucking broke, fuckyou, I'm out.
And that's where need this?
Oh, you're fucking broke, fuckyou, I'm out.
And that's where you know, likenow you're leaving this guy in
(55:47):
the dirt.
Thankfully I haven't gone downthis road.
Of all, women are blah, blah,blah.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
Thankfully I have too many people in my life that, as
small as they may be, Bite yourankles.
Speaker 2 (56:05):
I I've had a lot of positive women in my life that I
you know.
Again I, I can't do that wholething.
Of all women are like this,except for this person, except
for this person's, except for mysister, except for lindsey, uh,
but everybody else in the world, you know, like no I would
agree with you that this is thisis a great death cap.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
Uh, because it can be bad.
I think there are a lot of kindof low level gold diggers out
there, like like this type ofperson who's just kind of
running around on the internetchatting to people trying to see
what she can get, and that thatis a problem that there are
these people.
It is a problem that there arewomen or men who go out on dates
(56:52):
just for the food, for thedrinks, whatever, knowing that
they have no interest in theperson, knowing that they're not
even really trying to, but it'sjust like oh, yeah, you know,
it's, it's fun.
I have heard people say thatbefore.
Oh's just like, oh, yeah, it'sfun.
I have heard people say thatbefore.
Oh, I just went on a datebecause it's fun.
Okay, well, if you're justhaving fun, do you want to pay
for your half of it?
On the other hand, I think thata lot of what we call gold
(57:17):
diggers are not necessarily golddiggers because, as you said,
if everyone's on the same pageabout this, I don't think that's
a problem.
If we've had a discussion andI'm here for your money, and you
know that I'm here for yourmoney and I know that you know
and we have specificallydiscussed that.
I'm mildly judging you guys.
(57:37):
But okay, you can have thatLike I'm not mad about it, can
have that like I'm not mad aboutit, and I don't think that that
is a problem when everyone is,everyone is in agreement and I
think that there's probably alot more of that than we're
aware of where people do know,like, why you're here and are
(57:58):
okay with that, and then, justlooking in from the outside,
people like, oh my god, she's agold digger, she's just there
for his money.
Yeah, he knows, that's why hehas her there.
So, yeah, a solid death cap.
If you have ever had experiencewith a gold digger or being a
gold digger, if you want to outyourself, you can write to us at
(58:19):
toxic at awesome life skillsdot com.
You can also find us onFacebook, instagram and blue sky
, and we will see you guys nextweek.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
Bye, thank you.
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people intotheir simplest ingredients.
I'm your host for this week,lindsay McLean, and with me is
my fantastic co-host.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Christopher Patchett, LCSW.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
This week's topic is all over the internet at the
moment and I'm sure you have runinto it both online and in the
real world Good old gold diggers.
I did not know that this was are-emerged topic online yeah,
yeah, right now it's getting alot of traction because there
(00:52):
are all of these wannabe alphaguys sitting there podcasting
not like us, of course talkingabout how I don't want no gold
digger females.
They're gonna bleed you dry.
Take everything you own, babes.
Do you even have a savingsaccount and a job?
Let's start with that first,and then we can, you know, then
(01:16):
we can think about gold diggers.
But yeah, there's, and we'lltalk about this.
There seems to be this likekind of panic going around right
now that you know successfulmen women are going to come and
take everything.
These women are gold diggers.
You must avoid them.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I'm interested to see where this goes.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
First, we have to start off with, obviously, an
explanation of what is a golddigger, and a gold digger is
somebody who dates or marriesfor money and not for love.
It can go both ways anyway.
Whatever in gender, it is notspecifically gendered.
Now, when you say gold digger,let's be honest a woman pops
(02:03):
into your mind no, that didn'thappen for me okay, pinocchio, I
see your nose like even fromhere, I'm surprised that you're
not able to itch the tip of mynose from where you're at I'm
waiting.
It's crossing the atlantic.
Give another couple seconds,it'll be like I'll hear like a
tap on my window and look in,there it'll be.
(02:25):
But yeah, in pop culture, like,or in current culture, we, when
we say gold digger, we almostalways mean a woman and kind of
true that form, the word or thename gold digger dates back to
the early 1900s and the firstquote unquote Gold Digger was
(02:46):
Peggy Hopkins Joyce.
She was a former showgirl whomarried and then divorced
millionaires yes, that is plural, and this was during the early
1920s and this is when you firstkind of start to see this
appear of when women did this.
They got this name gold digger.
And I do think it's important tonote the time because we have
(03:10):
previously talked about how inprevious generations it's been
very important for women to kindof quote unquote marry up.
You want to make sure that theman that you're marrying has
money, because that's what youwere very dependent on.
And that's not to say thatwomen haven't worked.
They have always worked, but itwas historically quite
(03:34):
important that your man had ajob and money, because once you
got married you tended to getpregnant pretty quickly and then
once you have kids you're athome until you have enough kids
that have a big enough age rangethat the oldest can take care
of the youngest, and or you've,you know, you're past your
(03:54):
childbearing years and then youmight reenter the workforce, but
you have this big chunk of timewhere you are making, as a
woman, little to no money likeactual money.
You're doing work, you're doinghousework, but no money comes
in, and we're seeing in the kindof late 1800s to early 1900s,
(04:14):
all of a sudden there are farmore women working outside of
the home.
There was this big kind of rusharound that time of women who
started getting factory jobs.
There was this big kind of rusharound that time of women who
started getting factory jobs,who started working as maids or
other things.
And, yes, a lot of that wasstill kind of the before you got
married versus after you'd hadall of your kids.
But more and more there werewomen who were just like I got
(04:35):
to work and so women were goingout there and women were doing
jobs, which means women wereearning money.
They were maybe not as relianton men for things.
However, it's no longer the1920s, even though sometimes it
feels like it politically, godno.
(04:57):
In today's Western society.
We have all sorts of fantasticthings like contraception, the
ability to get divorced and havesomeone pay you child support,
infant formula, outsidechildcare.
Now it will cost you both arms,a leg and half your nose, but
(05:18):
we do have that.
We're sort of kind of thinkingabout equal pay for equal work.
We're getting there Maybe.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Look, efforts have been made.
You know some countries havemade better efforts and more
efforts than other countries,but things do look better than
they did, say, 30, 40 years ago.
Okay, I'll agree.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, it's say 30, 40 years ago.
Okay, I'll agree.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah, it's.
You know it's all relative inthere it's like, yeah, could we
have done more and better?
Yes, have we still donesomething Also?
Yes, so we have a lot ofprotections now for women so
that they're not so forced to bedependent on men.
That doesn't mean it's alwayseasy, and you actually
specifically talked about thisin your episode.
(06:07):
I think it was unpacking thefinancial strain on women in the
workforce.
About how women tend to be injobs or jobs that have a lot of
women tend to be lower paid.
It's not that women are seekingout lower paid jobs, it's just
that as women gravitate towardscertain fields, the pay tends to
go down in them.
(06:28):
Yeah, this inequality where mentend to make more money, men
tend to be better offfinancially than women.
So even where I am here inFrance, if I was working a
(06:51):
normal job, not being afreelancer, if I got pregnant, I
get six months of maternityleave that is paid and I am
required to have my job when Icome back.
Even with that, there are stillpenalties that are going to hit
you when you have children as awoman, as anybody who has
(07:12):
children, but when you take timeoff more or less, and that does
put you behind in terms ofmoving forward for promotions
and other things, so you justmake less money in general, like
on the whole.
But I do think it is interestingto kind of come back to our
main point of gold diggers thatin countries and Europe is a
(07:36):
great example of this wherethere is a lot more like gender
parity, like there's a farsmaller difference in pay in
terms of, you know, access tostuff.
I'm thinking of countries like,you know, the nordic countries,
sweden's great example.
So countries like sweden havefantastic benefits to both women
and men when a family choosesto have kids.
(07:59):
You see a big differencebetween a country like, again,
the Nordics, or a country likeItaly or Greece, where there's a
far bigger pay gap andexpectation, and those countries
are far more likely to assumethat the man pays for everything
, the man is in charge of that,and so it kind of makes sense,
(08:20):
right.
And so it kind of makes senseright, like if you are coming
from a country that has, like,that big gap, you're going to
assume that the man takes careof everything, versus you're
coming from a country thatdoesn't have that big gap.
So it's more like ah, you alsomake good, like I make good
money and you make good money,so why does?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
only one of us have to splash out.
Yeah, yeah, I can.
I can see that.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, half the splash out.
Yeah, yeah, I can.
I can see that, yeah.
So let me ask you then, sincethe the us is kind of like a
weird mixture in there and thatyou know the we have a bigger
pay gap than certainly someeuropean countries, but perhaps
not as big as other, you know,southern european countries I'm
using europe as an examplebecause I think it's unfair to
compare us to other parts of theworld, necessarily, but have
(09:09):
you ever felt pressure to spenda lot on the first date?
yes how were you made to feelpressure to spend a lot of money
?
Like, were you specificallytold, were women like judgmental
um?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
I think.
I think a lot of it comes downto well, okay.
So I mean basically like okay,so go now on a date.
Usually, like the first date'sgonna be something like uh, like
a restaurant or a bar or youknow, like a restaurant getting
some drinks and everything likethat.
You're not going to sit thereand be like, hey, you can have
(09:51):
whatever you want, just as longas it's under like 20 bucks,
yeah, so, so she orderssomething and, uh, she gets.
Okay, she gets something to eatis up to like 25 hours,
whatever, okay, uh.
And then conversation's goinggood, you're having a good time,
(10:12):
and now, like you know, she'sordering drinks.
Hey, could you not get the the?
You know this, just stick withbeer.
You know, like uh so.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
So I mean, do we need the fancy cocktail?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
yeah, yeah so.
So it's basically like you havetwo options.
You can either sit there andaccept the you know like 200
bill, or you say, like you knowlike, hey, you know, excuse me,
can you just get the beerinstead of you know like.
And as a guy like, okay, as aguy like, maybe I could do that,
(10:54):
but at the same time, like if aguy were to say that to you,
how would you kind of take that?
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah it's and I understand this.
Yeah it's and I understand this.
I think we'll probably get intothis later kind of the shame
that goes into it, and like thefeeling like you can't say no if
somebody's going for stuff,because it is weird, like if
you're standing there and you'reordering and if somebody,
anybody, the guy I'm on a datewith, even a friend, if I'm just
out with a friend and they madea comment about like oh wow,
(11:24):
that's expensive, or like maybedon't order that one, it's a lot
, I'd be like excuse you, yeah,you kind of lose either way.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Now, have you ever like, suggested a place or a
date or something, and the womansaid no and then followed it up
by being like no, but let's gohere.
You know, suggested someplacereally nice.
Has that ever happened?
not that I can think of that, no, I, I haven't gotten that okay,
(11:56):
I was just kind of curious ifthat, because I know that I have
heard online, seen stuff wherepeople have said you know, I
suggested that we go for coffeeand she was like, oh, coffee for
a first date, how dare you?
Personally, I haven't seen that.
Then again, we've alsoestablished that, like all of my
(12:17):
friends have morals and ethics,and so none of us are running
around being like oh yeah,cocktails and lobster.
And so none of us are runningaround being like oh yeah,
cocktails and lobster.
You know everyone lives withintheir means within my friend
circle, but that is obviouslynot the case for everyone.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, it's, you know.
And again this kind of comesdown to like there's no way in
hell that I would ever suggest,like Mickey D's as a first uh
date coffee.
I might suggest coffee as astart point and see how things
go.
Or, you know, I might do the,the you know let's, let's grab,
uh you know, some coffee and seehow things go.
Yeah, but then again, you know,like, if things are going good,
(13:03):
then yeah, then it might yeahbut you know, at least you know
that, uh, let's start withcoffee and see how that goes.
If things are going down prettyshitty, you know pretty quick,
then you can.
You know that's the time whereyou can be like yeah, it's um 7,
30 is getting kind of late here.
I got to go.
(13:24):
Yeah, I got to go pick up mydaughter from a doggy daycare.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
I eat my house.
Yeah, unfortunately, yourexperience, I think, seems to be
more common than I would liketo think it is.
I always want to believe thebest in people and yeah, I just
see it over and over again thatthere are a lot of women who do
just go out and assume that'slike, oh, I can, I can not,
(13:54):
maybe not necessarily havewhatever I want, but there's
this kind of like, oh, but youknow, you're paying for it and
so we're having a nice time and,yeah, I'll order a second drink
or something, I think, withoutalways thinking about the
consequences that that has forthe other person where, when
it's you, you may start to likementally, you're keeping count,
like if I go out with friends,you know, and people keep
(14:17):
ordering drinks, at a certainpoint, you know, I may look at
that and I'm like we have hitthe budget.
I'm out for the night because Idon't want to spend more, you
know, but if somebody else waspaying, I don't think you always
do that and that's where wekind of like start slipping into
gold digger territory, I think.
And when you start getting intothat whole like I'm just going
(14:41):
out and you know, yeah, it'sokay if you order a second
cocktail, but your cocktails arelike 15 euros.
It's a lot of money.
And now you've got two people,you're paying for both of them
and you keep drinking them andyou go through them so fast.
You sure you don't want a glassof wine, really?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I'm aware that sounds very French.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
You're like, oh, a glass of wine.
But these are the type ofpeople who definitely are using
this and that is ultimate golddigger.
I think you were the one Idon't know if you brought it up
here or if this was just like aconversation.
We had the girl in New YorkCity who what was it?
She ate out every day of theyear for free by going on dates.
(15:27):
Yep, gold digger, a hundredpercent, like, how dare you?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
you know, but but kind of I remember we, it was on
an episode and and you know,this is where it becomes kind of
a problem is I know that youkind of said like you know, like
that's, that's sick anddisgusting, but at the same time
there's a part of me that'slike you get that girl like
(15:56):
there's also part of me when Isee somebody pull off like a
crazy bank heist, it's like fuckyeah, it's that same little bit
of my brain that's triggered.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
That's like I don't have the confidence to do that
or stupidity in some cases, butyou know you can look at the
other person and be like that'sone way to do it.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
You know what?
Okay, I'll give you thatbecause I think to like Luigi.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Exactly that's what I was thinking.
You look at that and you'relike, oh, oh God, but also Damn,
okay, see it's, it's that same,that same little part of your
brain, I mean it's.
It's still a problem, though,obviously, and somebody who is a
(16:45):
gold digger is a problem,because then what happens is
that this when stories like thatcome out, it puts everybody in
a bad light, like all women getput under this umbrella of like
oh, I saw this story about agirl who was just like eating
her way around New York city,and so now you know, if you're
(17:05):
dating in New York city, you maybe looking at it.
You're like shit, did I go on adate with her?
Like, have I ever matched withher?
Like, are there other women whoare going to see this?
And be like, ooh, that's a goodidea, and it just builds up
this huge amount of mistrustbecause you've seen it and now
it's there in your head and soyou're constantly watching for
(17:28):
anyone to maybe start to showthose signs.
And, like we talked about at thebeginning, there's this really
big push right now in the alphabro world of hating on gold
diggers, on gold diggers and anywoman who seems to potentially
(17:50):
be maybe sort of looking formoney is a gold digger.
You know you go out to eat andshe orders a drink.
That's a gold digger which iskind of in contrast to me, to
the whole like alpha thing oflike I'm a big bad protector who
has tons of money where mybitch is that, but not you,
because you're here for my money.
But why are no women flockingto me to hang out on my yacht
and spray champagne and danceand skimpy bikinis?
(18:11):
But how dare you expect me topay for our dates?
This is a flip flop.
Like I'm surprised you haven'trun into this.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
What, as far as like online, like yeah, I mean so,
like things that I have seen iswhere you are seeing girls who
are if he doesn't spend eighthundred dollars on the first
date, there's not gonna be asecond date.
Yeah, it's like eight hundreddollars, like fuck, like I want
(18:44):
eight hundred dollars you know,like I, I you know, I think the
most I've ever paid for a firstdate was two hundred dollars oh
my god yeah, yeah, and even thatI'm doing it wrong.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I think the most anybody ever paid for a first
date with me was like 50.
Was like 50.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Dang it and that was kind of that whole thing is that
we had like a really good time.
We were having goodconversations, everything like
that.
And then and she's orderingdrinks, but the drinks that
she's ordering are like theyweren't like the outrageous
drinks.
But the drinks that she'sordering are like you know they
weren't like the outrageousdrinks.
(19:26):
But drinks are expensive, youknow like.
You know a cocktail, yeah it's.
You know 15, 16 bucks.
You know she's not getting thetop shelf.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
You know $50 shot of tequila but you know still $15,
you know know times that by twois going to add up pretty
quickly yeah, and of course theextra thing with the cocktails
is that it's not like a beerthat you can slowly nurse, it's
you go through them fast?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
yeah.
So at the end of the ninth, uh,you know we made out and then,
you know, I walked her up to herdoor and then I went home
really liked her.
She said that she really likedme and then she ghosted me.
So from my perspective it's$200 to get ghosted.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, ew.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
No, that's a shitty thing to do.
I again, we've alreadyestablished the algorithm feeds
us very, very different things,but I have, in delving into
everyone's beloved manosphere,I've definitely run across these
dudes who are very upset aboutlike women just want me for my
money.
Women are only here for mymoney.
(20:45):
Now again, what money they havehas not been established, and a
lot of these dudes are kind ofbuying into it.
There are one or two at the topwho do have money, and so
that's a real thing.
But then it trickles down, andso you have guys who are
repeating this because they'veseen it online.
But, like I said before, do youeven have a job?
(21:07):
Do you have a savings account?
Are you putting aside money forretirement?
You haven't even gotten there.
So you have these guys whothey're nowhere near any of
these things.
They don't have a house, theydon't have a car, but they're
already worried about the womancoming, marrying them, having
(21:27):
their kids and then taking halfof everything that they own.
It's like we haven't even beenon a date yet, sir, Like you
haven't even gotten to thatpoint, Like, do you know
anything about me?
But you're already focused onlike you're going to come in and
take half of everything I own.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
So I have seen, like you know, like the clips of the,
the, the podcast of you knowthe guy who's like you know, uh,
girls don't deserve any of mymoney, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, and I hear it from uhsickens me to say this guy's
name people like Andrew Tate.
But the thing is, is that theway that you come across and
(22:14):
everything like that, that's allyou really are showing that you
have to offer?
Yeah, so you know, of course,if that is what you're
advertising as what you have tooffer, don't be surprised if
that is what she's looking forfrom you.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Exactly, and it can be mutually beneficial, and I
think that that kind of getsrolled into oh, she's a gold
digger, but you have some ofthese that it's like no, I think
everybody's on the same pageabout what's going on here,
everybody who's involved in it.
You know, you have these olderguys who looks no Money, yes,
(22:57):
and you'll see them with like areally hot young woman.
I mean, there's the case of umjordan hudson and bill belichick
.
Bella, is that how youpronounce his name?
I don't know.
He's, he's some football.
Is he the owner?
Speaker 2 (23:08):
or like, uh, some football something oh, is this
one that I I jealous, like superjealous of her.
Okay, maybe not.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
No, I don't think so.
So she's 24.
He's 73.
And people were, you know, allup in arms, kind of semi-rightly
so, about this relationship.
And people like, oh my God, youknow, she's only there for his
money and it's like he probablyknows that, like you look at
(23:37):
that type of thing, it's like Ithink at that point we're
probably both on the same pageabout what's going on.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
So this is the thing I will say, and so, like I don't
know that person that you'retalking about, but the first
thing that comes to mind is AnnaNicole Smith.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Same exact thing.
She was, you know, in her 20sand he was fucking in his 80s.
You could, yeah, probably notthe greatest looking guys.
You knew what she was there for, yeah, looking guys.
Uh, you knew you knew what shewas there for, yeah, but the
thing is is that I will say thatassuming that you're on the
(24:21):
same page is different thanknowing you're on the same page
and I would agree with that.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
That.
You know, we have no way ofknowing what these people are
doing their personal lives.
It may be like we had adiscussion about this and
everyone knows full damn well,like why I'm here and why you're
here.
Or it may just be kind ofassumed, and yeah, when it's
assumed it's like, well, surelyyou can see, yeah, but have we
actually said that?
Because then you fall into thatdeception category and that's
(24:47):
where things get really gross,like when you start lying to
people and being like, oh please, you know.
You know, I've just reallyenjoyed talking to you, it's
been really nice, would love tosee you again, knowing that you
don't actually want to see thisperson, knowing you have, you
know, no interest in, andactually like seeing them a
second time.
It's like you're just there forthe free mail or you're just
(25:09):
there to get your electricitybill paid, even though you're
five months pregnant.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Like I worked that one day.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
No.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Oh God.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I saw the perfect opening to squeeze that little
story in that you told me about.
I was like mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
opening to squeeze that little story in that you
told me about and I was like so,yeah, we, we demonize these
women for going for that.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
And again, we don't know if it's a you're lying and
telling this man that he's thelove of your life when secretly
you're just waiting from thekeel over dead so you can have
his money.
Wrong Gold digger, get out ofhere.
If you guys understand whateveryone gets out of this and
that has been spoken about Ithink that that makes you not a
(26:00):
gold digger necessarily, becauseyou've made it clear that
you're not trying to, you know,get a hold of this person's
money.
In a weird way, it's just like,yeah, I'm enjoying, I'm
enjoying you, you're enjoying me.
We're all on the same page.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
And so, like you know , especially like Anna Nicole
Smith, like after dude died,there was that whole court
battle, you know, with his kidsand things like that, and she
was coming out and you know,begging and pleading to the
courts that you know, this waspurely love, this was so you
(26:43):
know.
Again, I mean, could have been.
Maybe maybe he was the sweetesttalker on the face of the
planet.
If that was the case, I, he,should have wrote a book so
other guys would be able torealize what it is exactly, what
to say that women would be likeoh my God, that is the sweetest
(27:05):
, most loveliest thing I've everheard.
I personally don't believe thatshe, she was there for the love.
I would hope that he realizedwhat she was there for.
But again, like, unless that isactually like, hey, I'm here
(27:26):
for money, I don't love you, Idon't want anything, I'll, you
know, even if I'll give it up toyou, you can have your fun and
I can have my funds, but that'sas far as we're going to go.
Cool, both parties agree tothat.
Good, you know, more power toyou.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, yeah, we don't know.
There are certainly signs.
In a lot of these cases it'slike, ah, maybe not, maybe we
didn't actually talk about thisand maybe people thought other
things, who knows?
But this does have an effect onregular people.
When you see celebrities dothis, I think it has a big and a
(28:07):
negative effect on you know,you and me who are out there
trying to live our lives anddating.
Because you see that this is aquote unquote normal thing.
It's like, oh well, celebritiesdo it and somehow there, it's
okay when the old, rich dudegets the hot young woman, we
celebrate him for that.
So it's okay there.
(28:28):
And there are certainly circlesof women who celebrate the
woman who does that and it'slike, yes, queen, get yours.
But it leaves the normal peoplein a really weird lurch Because
then it puts all this pressure,I think, on men to not be stingy
on the first dates.
It's like, oh, you need to.
(28:48):
You know, spend money so youget the women, you keep her
attention, all of that, likeshow that you're worthwhile.
And then when that doesn't,when nothing happens from that,
then there's a lot offrustration and then that can
very quickly when you knowyou're already feeling
frustrated that you've gone ondates and it hasn't gone
(29:10):
anywhere.
And you run into one of theseyou know and it hasn't gone
anywhere.
And you run into one of theseyou know tater tots on TikTok or
Instagram who's preaching aboutthe evils of the gold digger.
And you see news like thiswhere it's like oh yeah, you
know, she's definitely, she'sdefinitely here for the money.
Now is there something else wedon't know, but the money is a
(29:30):
reason.
I think that's where you getthese guys who are like really
angry at women and just like,well, I'm not gonna, I'm not
going to do anything.
I'm pretty sure I've told thestory on this podcast before,
but it is worth repeating.
I had a friend who met a guyonline.
They were talking about goingout on a date and he basically
(29:51):
made it clear to her.
It was just like oh yeah, likeyou know, I don't spend a lot of
money on the first day, I'm notgoing to do this or that.
And she was like yeah, it'sfine.
I suggested we go for coffee ora walk.
He's like I just want to makesure.
You went to Gold Digger and Ihad already suggested coffee or
a walk.
You could have chosen the freeoption, but you're so obsessed
(30:12):
with, like, avoiding the golddigger that now I don't want to
meet you.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah, like when you're, when you're so focused
on like I, you know, I've got,I've got to avoid the gold
diggers.
The gold diggers are out thereand they are out there.
There are these women andpotentially men who are simply
existing to like, hoover up asmuch of your money as they can.
But if you go into everypotential date or every meeting
(30:39):
being like what are you spendingmoney on?
Did you buy the cheapest option?
Did you buy the second cheek ofthis option?
Like what's going on here?
Oh, you ordered the, the thisversus the that, that's, you
know, two dollars more golddigger.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Then you're never gonna get anywhere you know, I,
I think and and oh, I, I hatethat we're getting or I'm gonna
get, uh political onto this, butI I think that that part of it
is.
We're seeing all the time, andyou know, as, as men, we're
seeing that a lot of theseChristian nationalists who are,
(31:18):
you know, very, very stern onyou know, like not working that
they want to be the trad wifetype thing and they're really
putting it out there and,unfortunately, in the past five
months, for, let's just say,some reason, they've been coming
out in in herds really pushingthis agenda of how the woman's
(31:44):
place is in the home, and you'rehearing this from women, just
as much as you know the thefucking tater tots yeah, and
that too.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
It just enforces the idea of like, oh, women don't
have any money, women don't doanything.
You have to, you know, spendall this money to do this, and
it it also tells women that'slike.
This is an a potentially anokay thing to do.
Men are supposed to take careof you.
Men are supposed to pay forthese things.
A real man would pay for all ofthis stuff in some cultures.
(32:13):
Yes, you know, I'm not gonnaargue.
If I were to go to russia, or ifI were russian living there,
there's a much higher likelihoodthat I would be making a lower
salary than many men, by abigger difference than you know
here in france or in the us.
I use russia as an examplebecause I've lived there before
it.
You acknowledge that this isexpected.
(32:35):
You, as the man, are probablygoing to have a lot more money
than I am.
So okay, but yeah, it's a weird.
I hate it.
From every direction people arebeing told this, but then, as
soon as they do it, it's like,oh, but you're wrong.
You expected the man to takecare of you, and then he did
(32:55):
take care of you, and somehowthat makes you a needy bitch.
It's set up to fail.
This is what I have discoveredis that this whole song and
dance is just like it's riggedso that women cannot win.
You're damned if you do, damnedif you don't.
The whole point is you, as thewoman, cannot win.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
You know it's funny when you're talking about like
Varsha, and I remember when Iwas dating a Varsha woman and
made many, many trips over there, one of the beautiful things
was that at the time it was like84 rubles to a dollar.
(33:44):
So it was like I remember, um, Iwas able to take this one girl
out on like I remember I wasable to take this one girl out
on.
Like you know, it was the SkyBar in Moscow and I mean it's a
very, like you know, luxury typerestaurant, slash bar.
We were able to have likedrinks, appetizers, dinner and
(34:10):
dessert and it cost me for bothof us 86 bucks, nice and and
spent the entire night therelike having drinks and
everything like that, had fancyfood and it would cost me half
as much as that one date that Iwent on that we went to the
local bar and and chainrestaurant, local bar and and
(34:39):
chain restaurant.
So and then it is.
It makes me laugh because Ithink of like this one thing
that a comedian once said that Ineed a girl who wants me for my
money and is really, really badat math yeah, there are
benefits, as I'm sure you'veseen, to dating somebody from a
culture where you've got afantastic exchange rate I need
(35:03):
to start doing that.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
You could just come over, see, there you go.
Problem solved, problem solved.
So where do you see us goingfrom here with gold?
What do you see?
(35:24):
The future of fighting?
Speaker 2 (35:25):
gold diggers.
I think in the U?
S is going to be more, more andmore of a battle, just because,
like I said, you know, if, ifyou, if you just saw it from
andrew tate, then you could justdisregard it.
But when you're hearing it fromtater tot and you know you're
hearing it from from womenthemselves, who reinforces it,
(35:49):
then you hear it from notstereotype kentucky bob who, uh,
you know, got played becauseyou know she wanted to go for
burger king instead ofmcdonald's, and and you know,
like, yeah, you know you'rehearing this from all over uh,
(36:10):
it gets down to the point where,if you're seeing more of how
women are just using men formoney and then also there are
women who do that and chancesare just just as easy as it is
for women to find men who areoverly aggressive, it is just as
(36:33):
easy for men to find women whoare looking for just money.
And so if you're dating, likeyou know, two or three women
like this yourself, it's veryeasy to kind of just say all
women want, you know, just money, yeah, and unfortunately that
that's, I know, we've talkedabout this before.
(36:54):
Like you know, just money, yeah, and unfortunately that's, I
know, we've talked about thisbefore, like you know, like the,
and we talked about, like howone of us wants to do an episode
on all men.
You know, I think that this is.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
I'm waiting for the right time to do it.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
I think this is the time, or I think this is the
problem.
All women type thing is thatonce we kind of go into that or
nothing thinking is then we haveto.
we look at, at, at the peoplearound us and you know, so, like
I, I could sit here and saylike, well, you know, I I've
dated or been with a couple ofwomen who just saw me as like a
(37:40):
giant walleye, and you know,that's true I do, unfortunately
but you know, if I sit here andsay that all women are doing
that, I would have to look atyou and say, like, well, either
I I could sit here and say, well, I know her parents and I know
(38:01):
that her parents raised herbetter than that, or I I would
have to sit here and think that,uh, after 15 years of
friendship, that she is stillwaiting for that perfect time to
like milk, a lot of money fromme.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
So you know I'm playing the long game here.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
I mean, there was a $2 that you borrowed from me
that you never paid back forlunch.
That one day I think Fucking.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Lindsay, the worst part is it may have happened.
I have no idea.
The worst part is it may havehappened.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
I have no idea but but yeah, you know that's going
to be that whole thing with thator nothing thinking.
Is you know, if you startseeing it all over the place and
then you start formulating thatare nothing thinking, you're
going to place that role ontoeverybody, and then maybe a
couple people that you got toknow really well, you're gonna
(39:06):
say, well, they're the oneexception and that's just
unhealthy to go into arelationship, just like you said
, with the one guy where he'slike, but yeah, you know, I, you
know, uh, I expect this becauseI don't want a gold digger.
Okay, well, you'll find out ifthey're a gold digger pretty
(39:26):
quickly.
Yeah, it should be prettyobvious you know and and and you
know, rather than sayingthey're looking for the, the,
the signs or whatever you know,like no, just you're going to
have to play it out.
If no, just you're going tohave to play it out.
If she is asking you to pay forher electricity bill and is
(39:49):
lying about being five monthspregnant, chances are, yeah,
she's a gold digger.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yeah, yeah, I would agree with you that I think it's
.
We've got a couple bad yearsahead of us as we work through
the process of this and peoplekind of try it and go down this
road until they realize thatthey're sitting at the dead end
and that they have to dosomething different.
I think that there are a couplethings that people could do
(40:21):
that I would love to see usdoing.
For instance, on women's side,all of my friends, all of them
who I have talked to, like anyof my female friends, have all
told me was that we're okay withhaving cheap dates.
Like there is nobody within myfriend circle who is like ew
(40:43):
coffee.
You know, the whole point of adate is that you get to know
somebody, you chat and if that'swhere it ends and you had a
fantastic time, cool, then we'llhave another date.
But I think that we are reallybad about expressing that to you
know, just in general, to belike, yes, this is okay.
(41:07):
General, to be like, yes, thisis okay.
You know, we're not allexpecting you to drop 50 euros
or $50 every time you go out ona date.
You know, kind of as theminimum.
I think there are a lot ofwomen who are perfectly fine
with you know you go to whateverfree thing your city is doing
that day.
You go to a museum that's freethat day, or you know something
like that that is very low cost.
I think we need to do a betterjob of being upfront and just
(41:29):
kind of in general talking aboutlike this is an okay date, so
that men don't feel shame aboutsuggesting that and that there's
not as like oh, if I say likewe should go for coffee, she's
gonna be like this man ain't gotno money.
It's like wow, this is a normalthing, you know.
And then once we kind of likebring that down, I think that
that will help on the men's sidethe men's side the men's side,
(41:54):
I'm gonna be mean for a second.
Okay, I have watched men in mylife, people who are my friends,
people I just kind of knew, sitthere and be like I don't want
a gold digger, as they areactively trying to get with the
woman whose entire body screamsI love money.
(42:18):
I just you know, look, I grewup in a household where my mom
almost never wore makeup.
I wear makeup like three timesa year.
I did not grow up with TV orteen magazines.
I still recognize when a womanis wearing makeup, when she's
had her hair done, when hernails are done.
That is something that can belearned for people to recognize.
(42:42):
And if you are the type of manwho says I love that stuff, I am
here for it, I want it, I knowwhat it entails, fantastic, go
for it.
If you were the type of man whosays that's not me, I am not
interested in that, and so I cantell by looking at you that
(43:02):
there's a very, very, very highlikelihood that your upkeep is
expensive.
And if your upkeep is expensive, you are probably going to
assume that I'm going to takesome of that.
That is probably not the personfor you If you go ahead and you
see that can probably assumethat, like, maybe this is not
(43:25):
the person for me and that maybemaybe we should have this
discussion early about what areour expectations in a
relationship.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Go on so I I'm gonna chime in on that one here.
I'm I'm sure you've seen thevideo where the girl is putting
on makeup and she's, you know,showing what products she's
using and then puts like alittle bit and then there's the
price, and then you know, likethe dress that she got for the
(43:55):
first date, you know.
Then she puts the grand total.
This is why I expect you knowlike, you know like so much from
you know from a guy, because myfirst date cost me $500.
And somebody stepped in I wasthe guy who broke everything
down.
Okay, you know, you got thisfor this much, you use this much
(44:19):
of it, so that's, you know,bringing it down from $90 to 53
cents.
You know like, and by the endof the, the, the, you know, a
thing is like the, the outfitthat you got for the first date
you're going to be able to wearthat you know, multiple times
and you know you really don'thave to go out that far.
So the cost of your, from youraspect, is as good as a
(44:43):
mcdonald's, cheaper cheeseburger, french fries and large coke so
I have a problem with thatbreakdown.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
I mean, I I agree that you can't be like, oh well,
I bought this foundation.
The foundation was 30,therefore you have to spend 30.
Like, you can use thatfoundation so many times.
But breaking it down like thatand being like, oh, you're only
worth that's, that's a.
That's a gross comparison onboth sides.
To be like, well, I spent thismuch to look like this.
I'm talking about more ingeneral, that you can look at
(45:12):
people and make some educatedguesses about what are their
expectations.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Well.
So I don't think that that thatvideo was saying that you're
worth a cheeseburger, and Ithink it was just him kind of
putting a flip on him, becauseshe was saying that I put this
much money into my makeup, whichcame up to 500.
Therefore, you, you pay 500 fora day, and he was kind of
(45:42):
saying both gross in it.
Yeah, I, I think he was kind ofsaying I think they're both
gross in it.
Yeah, I think he was justbasically saying if you want to
go by that logic, you should.
You know, this is what youactually pay for.
So we can go out for, like acheeseburger, large fries and
large Coke.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Yeah, there's something about it still sits
weird with me.
I don't like her version either.
To be clear, like again, youcan't just like run around and
be like, oh, I bought theseshoes and I may wear them every
day, but like, because I worethem today, I'm worth this much.
That's not how it works.
That's not how dating works.
That's not how we like pricestuff.
(46:18):
Again, I'm talking about likegeneral appearances.
You can get a vibe fromsomebody Like I can look at men,
you know if we're going to flipit and you look at it, it's
like you, you live an expensivelife, you like really nice
things.
Okay, that's fine.
That is personally notsomething that I'm really
(46:39):
interested in.
I don't necessarily want thedude who's running around like
flaunting his riches interestedin.
I don't necessarily want thedude who's running around like
flaunting his riches, so I'm notgoing to go for that type of
guy.
I'm talking about men who are,you know, sitting here and
telling me actively, telling meI don't want a gold digger, and
then going for the woman who hasa much higher likelihood of
being a gold digger.
Do you see what I mean?
Speaker 2 (47:02):
it's.
And again, this is where I kindof break off from you is that
you know, like, unless they aredoing something outlandishly
obvious, like showing up in aporsche, you know, okay, you,
you can see what the theexpectations are and things like
that girl who likes to wear alot of makeup.
(47:22):
You know, okay, she likes towear a lot of makeup.
You know, okay, she likes towear a lot of makeup.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
There's different styles.
This is the problem with men isthat there's a lot of makeup
for the female gaze and there'sa lot of makeup for the male
gaze and there's all sorts ofin-betweens, and when you get to
a lot of makeup for the malegaze, she's got something that
she's looking for more oftenthan not.
She's got something that she'slooking for more often than not.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
It's your wallet, it's.
But but the solely kind of putthings just based on looks.
I think that again you're kindof hitting down a dangerous path
now, because night and I, andagain this is kind of going down
that path of, well, look whatshe was wearing, she was asking
for it.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
And that's why I said this is kind of going down that
path of, well, look what shewas wearing, she was asking for
it and that's why I said this isthat that is just a sign to you
that maybe you need to have aconversation sooner rather than
later about whateverexpectations from a relationship
that's not a like oh, I seeyou're wearing a lot of makeup.
Therefore you're a gold digger.
Therefore you're going to stealoff my money.
Therefore, fuck you, becausethat's that's wrong.
When you make an assumption,finish the sentence with me.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
You make an ass out of you and me yeah, but you know
, and that's that's kind of whatI'm saying is that okay, you
know, you shouldn't assume atall, like you know you shouldn't
say that just because of whatshe's wearing, that a guy should
expect that she's going to be agold digger, okay, you know, if
(48:51):
she likes to, you know, wearthis.
Certain we can kind of looselyuh assume, but again, that if,
if you do feel that, hey, youknow, she seems or she looks
(49:18):
like the type of person thatthat's, um, you know, going just
for the money, that's when youmake that, that conversation
just as well's, when you makethat conversation Just as well
as having that conversationwhere, if, based on what a
girl's wearing, you canabsolutely positively cannot
assume that she just wants it,and that's the thing it's like
(49:43):
having that discussion.
Do you enjoy having sex?
Are you fine with having sex onthe first date?
Do you want to have sex with me?
Okay, again, that's theconversation that has to be done
.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, and that's what I'm saying, for this is that
this is not an immediate turnoff.
I think men need to do a betterjob of kind of watching for the
signs up front to instead ofletting it get so far.
Because if you see this girl,you're talking with her, you
know things seem to be goingreally well, you're getting
these.
They're not red flags, butthey're beige flags.
(50:16):
You're just like, hmm, okay,it's something to keep in the
back of your mind, to keep inthe back of your mind so that if
she then suggests, oh, I knowthis, like really fancy cocktail
place, maybe now's a reallygood time to have that
discussion, just to make sure,because, who knows, maybe she's
going to come out and be like,oh no, oh no, sweetie, I'm
(50:39):
paying for you, I'm CEO of mycompany, like it's my treat, and
you can be like okay, cool, I'mglad we had this discussion.
It's just about payingattention to these things, so
that you don't end up you knowthree dates in and you're like
how did I, how did I get here?
Because you didn't payattention to the information
(51:00):
around you.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
I'm still going with the.
This is discussion that has tobe talked about yeah, it's a
discussion.
It should always be adiscussion but but yeah, I think
that if you're, if you're youknow, even with, like, the
science, okay you know.
If if she says about the, thefancy cocktail, and you know as
(51:23):
a guy that there's no way in howthat you can afford this, or
that this is going out of yourbudget, you know and you say
that you say oh no, this is likeas on my budget I.
and if she does say, like youknow, like, uh, well, I'm
looking for a guy with, you know, more money than that there,
that Now you have thatconversation.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
I think we're saying the same thing just in different
ways.
So from what I'm hearing fromyou is that I'm hearing hold
that assumption in the back ofyour head, then have the
conversation.
I'm saying don't assume period,but still have that
conversation.
I'm saying don't assume period,but still have that
conversation.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
I'm saying that the conversation is going to happen
one way or another.
I think if you were gettingsigns that maybe point towards
this could be an issue, and ifthis is something that is very
important to you, theconversation needs to happen
sooner.
I also live in a place where Ihave never paid for a first date
, but France is kind of iffy onthat in terms of like, it would
(52:30):
not be strange if I was singleand I went out on a date and the
guy assumed that we were goingto split it.
It's a little bit of adifferent mindset here.
Anyway, I'm sure we'll pick atthis one later.
(52:50):
On our scale of toxicity, wherewould you rate gold diggers and
gold diggers being women who areintentionally just seeking out,
or not just women, a person whois seeking out another person
not romantically, not becausethey care about them, but
literally just for the money?
Would you say that they are agreen potato?
You can just peel off the greenpart, you'll be fine to eat it.
(53:12):
Are they a death cap mushroom50 50 chance of death?
Or are they a delicious butdeadly last snack when mixed
with lime jello antifreeze?
Speaker 2 (53:25):
I would say that this is like a dead center, uh,
death cap, uh, I think that ifthis is something that is
discussed like and is agreedupon by both parties, that fine.
You know, like, if this is, youknow, how you want to define
your really or define arelationship, I, I, I don't
(53:48):
think that, um, anybody can sayyes or no to that, but but again
, I think that a lot of times,and then that the gold digger is
not as obvious as you know,like, hey, this, you know, like
(54:09):
I expect blah, blah, blah.
I think the gold digger is, youknow, especially nowadays, is
becoming more of the five monthpregnant girl of you know like,
hey, you know like shit's reallygoing down and my life is going
to shit and I just need twohundred dollars to pay off my
(54:30):
electricity, so that way.
But I really want to be withyou and you know, like blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, and youknow, you know, I, I said no to
that and, um, you know, and andthis is where I was kind of
saying to you, is that, evenwith that that saying no, she
(54:52):
kept on talking to me.
And you know, like really tryingand we've talked about this
before we're really trying todraw the guy in, and especially
a guy with a lot of empathy, andtrying to find that one thing
where, hey, oh, your, your daddied of cancer.
My dad's going through cancerright now and he was a vietnam
(55:14):
veteran and the va is not payingfor his medication, and and
again, you know, once they kindof find that that one thing,
that yeah, just like twist theknife in.
Speaker 1 (55:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
Is really twisting the knife in.
That's where it can be deadly,because they are not happy with
just that $100 that you gavethem to quote-unquote pay for.
The medication is then oh, andI need this, and I need this,
and I need this.
Oh, you're fucking broke, fuckyou, I'm out.
And that's where need this?
Oh, you're fucking broke, fuckyou, I'm out.
And that's where you know, likenow you're leaving this guy in
(55:47):
the dirt.
Thankfully I haven't gone downthis road.
Of all, women are blah, blah,blah.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
Thankfully I have too many people in my life that, as
small as they may be, Bite yourankles.
Speaker 2 (56:05):
I I've had a lot of positive women in my life that I
you know.
Again I, I can't do that wholething.
Of all women are like this,except for this person, except
for this person's, except for mysister, except for lindsey, uh,
but everybody else in the world, you know, like no I would
agree with you that this is thisis a great death cap.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
Uh, because it can be bad.
I think there are a lot of kindof low level gold diggers out
there, like like this type ofperson who's just kind of
running around on the internetchatting to people trying to see
what she can get, and that thatis a problem that there are
these people.
It is a problem that there arewomen or men who go out on dates
(56:52):
just for the food, for thedrinks, whatever, knowing that
they have no interest in theperson, knowing that they're not
even really trying to, but it'sjust like oh, yeah, you know,
it's, it's fun.
I have heard people say thatbefore.
Oh's just like, oh, yeah, it'sfun.
I have heard people say thatbefore.
Oh, I just went on a datebecause it's fun.
Okay, well, if you're justhaving fun, do you want to pay
for your half of it?
On the other hand, I think thata lot of what we call gold
(57:17):
diggers are not necessarily golddiggers because, as you said,
if everyone's on the same pageabout this, I don't think that's
a problem.
If we've had a discussion andI'm here for your money, and you
know that I'm here for yourmoney and I know that you know
and we have specificallydiscussed that.
I'm mildly judging you guys.
(57:37):
But okay, you can have thatLike I'm not mad about it, can
have that like I'm not mad aboutit, and I don't think that that
is a problem when everyone is,everyone is in agreement and I
think that there's probably alot more of that than we're
aware of where people do know,like, why you're here and are
(57:58):
okay with that, and then, justlooking in from the outside,
people like, oh my god, she's agold digger, she's just there
for his money.
Yeah, he knows, that's why hehas her there.
So, yeah, a solid death cap.
If you have ever had experiencewith a gold digger or being a
gold digger, if you want to outyourself, you can write to us at
(58:19):
toxic at awesome life skillsdot com.
You can also find us onFacebook, instagram and blue sky
, and we will see you guys nextweek.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
Bye, thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!