January 7, 2025 • 55 mins
What if the perfect lives you see on Instagram are just a facade? On this eye-opening episode of the Toxic Cooking Show, we promise to help you uncover the truth behind social media's glamour and the unrealistic standards it sets. Join us, Christopher Patchet LCSW and Lindsay McClane, as we dissect how social media, particularly platforms like Instagram and Facebook, can warp our sense of reality. Together, we'll explore the psychological effects of constantly comparing ourselves to curated online personas and the isolation that can follow.
Our conversation takes a sobering turn as we highlight the pressures of adhering to fleeting trends and the pervasive influence of influencers on body image and personal expectations. With stories of seemingly glamorous lifestyles fueled by sponsorships, we reflect on the hidden financial stressors and sacrifices that may lie beneath. Drawing parallels between influencers and movie stars, we encourage listeners to keep a healthy perspective and avoid being swept away by the unattainable ideals that saturate their feeds.
As we navigate these murky waters, we touch on the implications of recent regulatory measures, like Australia's ban on social media for those under 16. Through personal anecdotes, we reminisce about life before the omnipresence of smartphones and stress the importance of educating both the young and the old about the potential pitfalls of excessive social media use. By promoting authentic content and healthier usage habits, we aim to foster a more grounded sense of self-worth and reality among our listeners.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people to theirsimplest ingredients.
I'm your host, christopherPatchett LCSW.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And I'm Lindsay McLean.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
There's something I've noticed a lot of my clients
kind of going through and Ithink that this would be a good
thing to kind of talk about.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Uh-oh.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
And it is ye olde social media.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
You know, I'm not surprised, I'm not surprised.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
It's a lot of times I hear people saying about how
they see on Facebook orInstagram, like everybody else
is getting married but me,everybody else is buying a house
but me, everybody else going onvacation but me they're having
kids, they're getting cute pets,they're redecorating the house
that they bought.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, it's all the like nice, cool, fun things.
Everyone's doing it, except me.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, this is kind of something that a lot of people
are facing.
They're looking on social mediaall the time and they're seeing
all these things that differentpeople are doing, and then
they're kind of making thatcomparison of themselves versus
other people.
So before I start, I'm going togive you some statistics.
(01:31):
On average, people arefollowing about 150 to 200
people on Instagram.
Also, people are followingabout 20 influencers on
Instagram.
10% of those people thatthey're following are
influencers.
Average time that somebodyspends on social media is two
(01:54):
hours what's that?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
I said I don't want to know this one it's actually
not as bad as I thought.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
It's only two hours and 23 minutes.
But out of 24 hours in the day.
I mean it's yeah, Well, sowe'll get to that.
We'll get to that, Okay.
But what is bad is the averageteenager, Gen Alpha.
They're spending about fourhours, 48 minutes, oh.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
No, no, yeah, almost five hours a day on social media
.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Oh God, we're fucked as a society.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Well, even us, even people, our age, oh yeah, okay,
so two hours and 23 minutes,just as you said.
Out of 24 hours, that's onetwelfth, a little over one
twelfth of our day is spent onsocial media.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
And that's you take out eight hours for sleep, eight
hours for working.
That gives us eight hours leftin the day.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
And you just spend a quarter of that over a quarter
of that.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, over a quarter of that is on social media.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, and obviously I know that that's not all one
chunk in the evening, like it'sbroken up, so it may be during
the day where it's like, well,I'm at work and I've got like a
little bit of downtime, so youknow, scroll 10 minutes here,
I'm on the train going to workand I'm scrolling there, but
even still that's a lot of time.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Right, and here's the thing, like we talked about
this before, and on average, you, how often are you actually
interacting with other peoplelike face to face?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I don't like this question because it calls me out
.
Um, I mean, I would say, acouple times a week I'll see, at
this point, like I'll see afriend or someone, and then I
have my kickboxing class andthen I have my old people
gardening club, but I work fromhome and I don't have meetings
(04:16):
or calls or anything withanybody, so like I can go a
whole day actually withoutactually seeing or like
interacting face to face withsomebody.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So, between kickboxing, between seeing, like
your friends, how much timewould you say that all together?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
In a week.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I mean kickboxing two hours, gardening club is
two-ish hours.
That one's a little bit lessface to face, because sometimes
you're just like plucking weedsin the ground.
But there are, there are peoplearound you, like physical
people around you, and then Idon't know, another couple of
hours so all together maybeabout seven, eight hours yeah
(05:00):
and that's about the same withme, like I'll.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
I'll kind of hang out with people, usually like on
Thursday nights and maybe Friday, saturday nights, and
altogether it's maybe six, sevenhours.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
And you figure two hours, 23 minutes per per day on
social media, that's 15 and ahalf hours per week.
So twice of our time is spent onsocial media as it is in real
life yeah, yeah, yeah so here,here's kind of the thing is that
(05:41):
you think about, just as I saidbefore, 10% of the people that
we're following are most likelyinfluencers.
Influencers they're gettingpaid to go out and take these
cool-ass shots and be able to goon vacation and go to different
(06:05):
places in the world, or evenjust renovate their home.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I think a lot of people kind of forget that a lot
of this is like you know.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Oh, then I partnered with the home depot and it's
like, yep, that's how you paidthat, like that's how this room
you were able to refurnish likethree rooms in a row, is that
the paint and the wood gotbankrolled, which is okay, but
like it's not, not, everyone cankeep doing this, house after
house after house and we'vetalked about this before with
(06:36):
like trad wives where they havelike 20,000 kids and still they
find time somehow to you know,bake and you know, do all these
things around the house andthings like that kind of chances
are that they're getting paidfor this a lot of money, and
(06:57):
what we don't see is the nannytaking over while trad wife is
writing out these scripts andthings like that.
So again, influencers, they're,they're being paid for this.
You know, whether it isvacation time, whether it is a
home run renovations, whether itis guarding, whether it's
(07:19):
cooking, they are literallygetting paid for this yeah, it
is their job right and onaverage you kind of figure.
It's kind of the same thing assaying, like how many movie
stars do you know personally?
Yeah and and how many peoplewould want to be a movie star.
So you I'm sure you know, andactually we both know, some
(07:46):
people who have tried to go intothe acting world and are stuck
where they were and in their 30sstill trying to break the
industry.
Yeah, seen a couple yeah, youknow, in all reality, not
(08:09):
everybody who wants to be amovie star is going to be a
movie star, just like anybodywho wants to be an influencer is
not going to be an influencer.
And even most of yourinfluencers quote, quote,
unquote are very low level, sothey're not even making money
off of it and they're putting alot of money into it so hoping
(08:35):
to have this lifted off theground.
But in the meantime, we'reseeing all these influencers,
we're seeing all the things thatpeople are doing, and we end up
looking at our lives and we'relike what the fuck am I doing?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
And even with our friends.
We see these people online andwe constantly see like
influencers that are doing allthese cool things, and then, on
top of that, our friends.
That's where the other half oflike, oh, I've seen my friends
doing this, I've seen my friendsdoing this, I've seen my
(09:13):
friends doing this and here'skind of the big part about that
is subtracting the 20influencers on our average
person.
That still leaves 180 peoplethat we're following, People
that we've either known for along time whether it's somebody
that we met on a date once andnever got to view their profile
(09:38):
again.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I think we all have a couple of those you just met at
some point.
They're hanging out on yourFacebook or Instagram
periodically.
You're like who are you?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
again.
Oh my God.
Yeah, I can't tell you how manytimes that has happened.
It's either somebody that Iknew in the Navy that they were
like in a completely differentdepartment, but since a lot of
their friends matched up with myfriends, they decided to add me
and I'm like okay.
(10:07):
I know we served in the Navytogether, but I probably talked
to you once 20 years ago Like hi.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah, this is why I keep a very tight lid on both my
Instagram and Facebook, likeI've gone through numerous
purges of both.
Just periodically go throughand you're like I never liked
you anyway, god.
I want you on here.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
So even even that 180 people that we have left, you
figure there there's 52 weeks ina, in a year.
Chances are that's going togive us about three, three
people per week.
So that that's three people perweek that that have their own
special week and you kind offigure how often it is that you
(10:56):
go on vacation.
You know, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I thought you were asking me and I was like I don't
go on vacation, I'm poor, Iokay.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Wait, wait, poor I.
Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait,wait, no, no, I don't want to
hear this shit from you becauseyou might not go on this like
luxury vacation, but you, youjust, uh, not too long ago, were
in a wedding in india, or Ibelieve, or no, okay, so the
last.
(11:27):
No, no, no you were at a uh, afriend's wedding, weren't you
not too long?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
ago.
That was a year and a half,okay.
So the last vacation I went onwas in August.
I went to go see a friend for along weekend.
Before that, the last likevacation I took was a year
previous.
I went to Germany for a coupleof days for a friend's wedding,
and then, a month or so beforethat, the wedding you're
(11:52):
thinking of is a friend who herhusband is Sri Lankan, and so we
were.
It was the Sri Lankan weddingand I was part of the like
bridesmaids, but that was herein France.
I didn't travel anywhere, okay,mates, but that was here in
France.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I didn't travel anywhere, okay, so, so things
like that, even that, okay, you,it was there in France and you
didn't travel anywhere, but itwas still like a huge event.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
So, whether it's vacation or whether it's a huge
event or whether it's somethingthat that you've done, you know,
if you are kind of seeing thison a day-to-day basis and you're
seeing that, oh well, thisperson went on vacation and I
think it can very quicklysnowball where it feels like
everybody is and everybody justwent on one which is like a
(12:41):
normal amount, or one or twolittle things here or there, but
because it's you've got 180 ofthese people, it's just like
everybody's going on vacation.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, you too, you were on vacation somewhere as
well at some point.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
You know and and this , this were kind of like that,
that whole thing that I was kindof saying about you were at a
friend's wedding.
That was a you know know a yearand a half ago, yeah, and so if
you, if you're seeing, ifyou're seeing, like you know,
somebody uh going to a wedding,and you're seeing that this
person over here is going onvacation and this person over
(13:19):
here just bought a house andthis person over here just got
married, this person over here Igot a, had a baby.
Okay, you're, you're talkingabout five completely different
people and we end up trying tokind of combine them into a
person yeah and by a person Imean every other person.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
It's just the internet.
All of my friends.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Right, and that's the thing is that you're saying
that, okay, everybody's gettingmarried, but me, everybody's
having kids, but me, everybody'sdoing that, everybody,
everybody, everybody, everybody.
But the thing is is that wedon't see the other side of life
.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I was just about to say nobody.
Well, that's not true.
There are some people who putentirely too much information
online, and so you do know whenthey're getting a divorce and
you do know when they'refighting with their significant
other, but most people don't putthat on there, like you're only
putting the happy things, soyou never see the little daily
(14:29):
struggles going on their lifeand not only that, but okay, so
I know with me.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
As far as instagram, you know, and and this is yeah,
you're right as far as me oninstagram, last time I posted
something was I, I don't knowfucking months ago.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I was about to say when was the last time we just
send each other memes on there?
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, I mean me actuallyposting something.
I might post a picture of Molly.
I know like right now myFacebook picture is a picture of
Molly.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
As it should be.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
As it should be, as it should be, and I might post
on there either somethingwritten or a picture or whatever
, maybe two or three times ayear.
And if you're seeing this andagain, you have 180 people and
(15:25):
they're posting three, four,five times a year, a year, and
different people are going to gothrough different things at
different times.
So you might be seeing thisperson on vacation, this person
having a luxury meal, thisperson who just got proposed to
(15:49):
and that's going to be the lasttime that you see them posting
for a year or five, six monthsand this person next week now
this person's buying a house,and this person, you know, et
cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
I also think there's a tendency to like when things
are going really well, peoplepost a lot.
Which kind of makes it seemeven more present.
Is that one person is gettingmarried this year out of your
friend group, one single one,but she will not shut up about
it.
And so every time that you logon, it's new pictures, new this,
(16:26):
new that, all of these things.
We're looking at weddinginvitations here's the sign I'm
trying on dresses which of thesebridesmaids dresses should we
get?
We're doing floral, we'retrying the cake, the lead up to
the wedding, then the weddingitself, and for days afterward
they're posting photos.
Sometimes I've seen people who,for like months afterward,
(16:48):
continue to post photos fromtheir wedding and they're like
it's been six months.
I just want to, you know, thankso-and-so for doing the flowers
.
It's like please stop.
It was one wedding, one person,but yeah, it just.
It fills up your feed with likeeveryone's getting married
because she won't shut up aboutit not speaking from personal
(17:11):
experience or anything yeah, youjust see it on your feed
because melissa can't shut thefuck up about it.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Not that I'm thinking about anybody in particular no,
no, no, never Damn you, melissa.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
I'm so glad I don't have a friend named Melissa.
That bitch, she sold me out.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
But, yeah you know, we're taking in all these people
.
We're saying that everybody isdoing this except for us, and a
lot of times when I'm workingwith a client, it's going to
affect the way that we seethings.
It's going to affect the waythat we see things, so it's
going to affect the way that wesee ourselves.
And another thing is that we youknow, like I said, we don't see
(18:02):
the other half of things.
So the person who is constantlygoing on vacation, you know the
person who's going on four orfive, six vacations a year they
might be eating top ramen andliving in a studio apartment
because going on vacation tothem is extremely important,
(18:24):
which absolutely nothing wrongwith that.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
That's your choice.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's yourchoice.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, the person who bought a new house.
We don't know all the thingsthat they went through in order
to buy a new house.
When I was living in Brooklyn,to buy a condo was 600,000.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And if I see a friend of mine who lives down in
Kentucky buying a brand new bigass house, they're probably
paying like two 50.
But if I have it in my headthat you know like, oh my God,
they must be making so muchmoney, blah, blah, blah, and in
all reality they're, they'repaying.
You know like, oh my god, theymust be making so much money,
blah, blah, blah, and in allreality they're paying.
(19:14):
You know, a quarter of a condoin New York?
Yeah, we don't, are you?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
surprised they're that cheap in New York.
A whole condo.
This was yeah, I mean well, soit's a one bedroom condo oh,
okay, I was imagining like,because the condos I've seen it
was like suburban type ones andso they're bigger, they're for
like a family.
Okay, that makes more sense.
(19:44):
Yeah, carry on, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah, we're not talking luxury condos, we're
talking like you're starting at$600,000.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that sounds about right.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
But yeah, something in Kentucky or some shit like
that, you can buy a three-storyhouse for like $250, $300 or,
yeah, $300.
Brb over to Kentucky $250,$300,000, which is not even half
(20:21):
, or just half of a studioapartment in New York.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
And again, you know, if somebody, if you've seen
somebody who is constantlyhaving luxury foods, we don't
know their lifestyle, we don'tknow how much they're paying for
other things, we don't know howmuch they're making.
That's kind of.
One of the other things is thatwe look at ourselves and we're
like how are all these peopleaffording all these things?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Credit card debt.
I mean not all of them, butyeah, credit card debt.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
I mean not all of them, but, yeah, credit card
debt.
And again, we don't know whatthey're giving up in order to
have these things.
So I'm not going to be eatingTop Ramen every day for the rest
of my life just because I wantto go on vacation.
Yeah, the one vacation I do goon, that is probably the only
thing that I spend big money on.
(21:13):
Outside of that, nothing.
No, I'm not going to bespending a lot of money on on
other things, yeah, but you know, again, we, we kind of combine
all these people into one personand say like, oh, you know,
everybody's getting married,everybody's getting.
You know, the house,everybody's doing this,
everybody's doing that.
(21:33):
And then we're looking at ournine-to-five desk job and we're
like, and I'm just sitting heredoing jack shit, mm-hmm.
So another big thing that isreally affecting us and is body
image, yes, and so even MarkZuckeruckerberg changing
(21:54):
facebook to meta that that was ahuge part of that whole change
is just because of the fact thatzuckerberg finally admitted
that, yes, we're, we're pushingout these, these influencers and
everything like that.
And you know, especially liketeenagers are, you know,
especially like teenagers?
Are, you know, picking up onall this and they're kind of
(22:16):
making those comparisons.
So you know, one of thebeautiful things, have you ever
seen one of these?
It's like a model and she doeseverything in reverse.
So you know, I've seen thismaybe two or three times and I
give such props to these peoplewho do this and you see them,
(22:37):
they start off, they come off,they're, they're extremely
beautiful, like attractive asall hell.
You know.
A 10 out of 10 off all the yeahoh, yeah, yeah, so so they,
they're, they're, you know,taking off their, their, you
know all the extensions.
They're taking off all theextensions.
They're taking out the makeup,they're taking off the filters,
they're taking off all thesedifferent things and then, when
(23:00):
you get to see them for who theytruly are, yeah, they just look
normal.
Yeah, normal person.
It's funny, I, I remember, um,when I lived in la, and not
gonna say the person's name, butI remember that I uh this is
(23:22):
gonna tell you how long ago thiswas uh, I saw an ad on
craigslist when I was lookingfor a place to live, and so I
found this one ad and it was,you know, looking for a roommate
and must enjoy like music.
I was like cool, you know, Ilove music, that's me.
(23:44):
So I wrote to the person.
I said like you know, hey, youknow this and the other, and I'm
looking for a place to move.
You know, hey, you know this,that and the other, and I'm
looking for a place to move.
You know, june 1st or whatever.
And so, you know, the personreplied back and she's like yeah
, you know, come on over, we'llkind of just meet up and we'll
(24:05):
talk, hang out for a bit.
My husband is a musician, reallybig name, not huge name, but
like I mean people know.
And then she's like you know,like, and you know, I've worked
in adult uh videos, and so I waslike cool, like you know, like
(24:30):
can be, you know, possiblymoving in with a rock star and a
porno girl, and so I was justlike curiosity.
So I, you know, she told meboth the names.
I didn't hear them, either one,the rock star or the actress.
And so I was like, okay, youknow, let me look at these
people out.
And I saw the actress.
(24:50):
And you know like, oh, let melook at these people out.
And I saw the actress and likeoh my God, damn, damn, she's hot
.
So I went over there the nextday, knocked on the door and she
answered the door and I waslike I'm thinking in my head so
you're the maid, where are thesetwo?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Because she just looked so normal.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, I mean, she looked absolutely normal.
And this person she was, Ibelieve, very well known.
So when I looked her up online,there was endless amount of
pictures and forms andeverything talking about her.
Yeah, so she was pretty wellknown and, again, normal human
(25:41):
being.
And that's kind of the thing isthat if we're seeing these
influencers and we're seeing thebody image and things like that
and we're like, oh my God, lookat all body image and things
like that.
And we're like, oh my God, likeyou know, like look at all
these people and look at myself,here I am.
You know my hair is too thin,or you know like my face is too
(26:03):
pale, or you know like I'moverweight, or this, that or the
other.
And not only is that creatingsomething harsh for the person
viewing it about themselves, butalso puts in a lot of
expectations yeah, it does.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Because you see that and you're like, well, this is
what the gym girlies look like.
They've got, you know, the cutelittle matching sets.
They've got the perfectly donehair.
They're doing their littleexercises.
Their butt already looks nice.
Nothing is out of place.
Everything is perfect.
I can't achieve that.
Why would I go to the gym?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Right, yeah, and even the expectations of each other.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah, because then you see that.
So it's like well know, my, mygirlfriend should look like this
, because all the other, all thegirls I see on instagram look
like this, and not just fordudes, obviously.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
like it goes both ways, and even like within
genders, I think people canstart to be like well, this is
what you're supposed to looklike, and so anybody who doesn't
achieve that standard is sloppy, is lazy, doesn't care, etc
yeah, exactly like every girl inthe world should have, like you
know, uh, double d boobs, andevery guy in the world should be
(27:17):
cut, you know, abs out the ass,and so it puts a lot of
pressure on people as far aswhat they expect from themselves
and what they expect from otherpeople.
And the thing is is that youknow this is not a new problem.
You know we've.
(27:40):
I even remember in the 90s,growing up and hearing about
this on.
You know the models and thingslike that.
Well, the thing is at that timereally I have to go out to
search for that there was somethings like MTV had House of
Fashion and things like that,but the majority of it was it
(28:04):
wasn't so much in your face.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, and I think with social media it's in your
face all the time and it movesso quickly.
You have these little trendsthat appear like mob wife,
mobster wife, whichever one itwas, that just appeared at some
point this year or last year, Idon't even remember, and it was
this trend in how you weresupposed to dress and then
(28:26):
instantly just kind of droppedoff again, but for a brief
period.
Do you even know what I'mtalking about?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Not a fucking clue.
I was just about to ask.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Exactly it was.
You know, like the if I saidlike a mobster's wife, you know
kind of the image you picture of, like the big fur coat, the
gold, like that kind of thing.
That was a very brief trendthat just like shot into outer
space and like came back downagain and people like I want to
do this.
But there's this expectationpeople saw and they're like,
(28:55):
well, I need, I need to do this,I need to get on trend.
And so you go out there, youbuy all this stuff off of
fucking timu and it's alreadycrap that you're getting and
let's not forget that people arebeing abused to make this stuff
for you and you wear it likethree times and the trend is
over and you eat it and you haveto go buy more stuff for the
(29:16):
next trend.
If you think that, like ifyou're trying to do that because
you think that it's important,because you see it on social
media and social media makes youfeel like you are missing out
If you're not doing this trend.
Everyone's on this trend,everyone's doing whatever nails,
everyone's doing whatevermakeup.
Only you aren't.
That is not true.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, yeah.
So you know social media is, isnot real life.
It's, unfortunately, and andthis is kind of the thing that I
was kind of saying about beforeis that on average, you know,
you and I both we were kind ofsaying that maybe interacting
with other people, we'respending seven hours a week as
(29:59):
opposed to 15 hours, so that'sdouble the time that we're
spending on social media than weare in real life than we are in
real life.
So 51% of the people that we'reseeing are, you know, these
(30:19):
chiseled out people, or peopleon vacation, or people who are
having great food, or people whoare having, you know, buying
the new house, or the people whoare just getting married.
And we look at our lives andwe're like I'm so fucking boring
, like you know, like.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, I don't have any of these things.
I'm, you know, falling behindLike something's wrong with me.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
So I've noticed this a lot with, I would say, 35 and
younger.
It is probably the majority ofwhat my clients have kind of
came up with, probably themajority of what my clients have
kind of came up with, and Imean even myself I recently had
(31:04):
to let go of social media as awhole because of the fact that
it was kind of driving me insanejust as well.
And I mean, that's kind of thething is that again we're
spending so much time on socialmedia that we're forgetting that
that's not the reality ofthings.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Well, I think that you know when you say 35 and
younger.
So I was born in 91, which wasthe year the Internet came out.
So, yes, we talk about you know, gen Z growing up with the
Internet and all of that.
But it actually started alittle bit before you know Gen Z
growing up with the internetand all of that.
But it actually started alittle bit before you know Gen Z
came along and the internet washere.
It was in homes, but I also hadthat as a millennial Like I
remember having a computer, likea household computer, and you
(31:45):
had dial up and you were gettingon.
So, like you know, we were thegroup, that kind of like.
Just as stuff was becomingrelevant to us, like things were
being created for us, like wewere the first wave to hit it.
Because what Facebook opened upto everyone in 2007, 2008,
(32:07):
somewhere around in there, Iknow I was in high school.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
I was going to say, I think Facebook.
Well, I mean, facebook wasthere.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
I was going to say I think Facebook Well, I mean
Facebook was there, but it wasonly for, like, college students
, and then at a certain point itopened up to like everyone.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
So it was 2008 when, when I joined Facebook.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
And I remember I was one of the last people to join
Facebook because of the factthat I was like MySpace forever.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
So 2007 sticks in my head as like when people started
to join, and I can't bebothered to look it up right now
to see if that's true or not.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
So as far as false information, I mean, I would
guess that 2007 is about thetime where it opened up, yeah,
but oh yeah, go on I was gonnasay definitely 2008, because
that was the year that I joinedyeah, and I remember my space
from like the beginning of highschool.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
That like that was because I had a my space.
Very briefly, and then I gotfacebook.
But like you think about youknow, high school is like when
you really start to middleschool is when you kind of
become aware in high school iswhen you're like really aware of
like all the people and things,and so we were the first kind
of generation to be goingthrough it at that time that 35
(33:26):
ish and younger that like wewere getting hit by that.
It's like facebook's here andinstagram is here and snapchat
and tick like, well, tick, tock.
We missed that's.
That's for the younger ones,but we've grown up with that and
so I'm not surprised that theseare the people who are having
the most kind of trouble pullingthemselves away and being like
(33:48):
this is not not reality.
What I'm seeing here is notreality.
I think older people didn'thave that, have a better chance
of kind of putting that bufferand being like I had life before
social media and so I can kindof see better maybe.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
So MySpace came out when I was 21.
Okay, 21, 22.
I think it came out 2001, 2002.
I was in the Navy when I firstjoined, so 2002 is when I was in
, so maybe 2001 is when itreally kind of opened up.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
So also at that time that when I would go on to
MySpace I actually had to go tothe V or the uh USO and use the
computer there.
And so you know, even evenpeople my age, where they were
(34:47):
21, 22, when it first came outyou weren't connected all the
time.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah, you weren't connected all the time.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, you weren't connected all the time, so you
actually had to physically havea desktop computer if people
know what that is anymore sothey would have to actually go
to a desktop computer and openup myspace and actually search
around on it.
And that meant that you had tosit there and actually sit and
(35:15):
look at this stuff.
You couldn't just be on thetrain, you couldn't be on, you
know, out in public or anythinglike that.
And yeah, just kind of how youwere saying that phones probably
like so it was 2008 when yeah,it was 2008 when the iphone
(35:37):
first came out, so that that wasyour first cell phone that you
could go online with yeah, ofcourse it takes a while to sort
of trickle down, because I don'tlike.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
When we were in college there were still a lot
of us who did not havesmartphones at the time, and it
was starting to become a bit ofan oddity then what, what kind
of fun did you have when, when Ifirst met you?
I.
I don't remember if I had it atthat very moment, but I know
that year was the year I hadthat little bitty phone that was
(36:10):
like maybe half the width of mypalm and it like the screen
flipped up.
You know, of course it was oneof those ones where you had to
like to type out the.
You know, it was like you clickthe numbers, you know one, two,
three times, and one, two, one,two, three, like yeah, yeah,
that's what I grew up with.
Like very briefly, I hit thatwhere I was like I have a phone
(36:31):
I can text, and it was only acouple of years.
Then we moved into twosmartphones, thank God.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
And so I remember my first smartphone was a
Blackberry and that was 2009.
Yeah, so by that time I wasalready 29.
So I had gone 29 years of mylife before social media became
a constant thing, so you know.
And then even thinking of likesocial media itself, okay, so
(37:03):
you had Facebook, and that wasabout an eight, until about 2008
when Twitter came out, and then2011 when Instagram came out,
and then 2018 is when TikTokcame out, but it didn't get
popular until 2020.
So I mean, all these things arerelatively new, only like 15
(37:23):
years.
So I mean, as time kind ofprogresses, the more and more
time that we're spending onsocial media and it kind of
shows with you know, just as Iwas, kind of progresses the more
and more time that we'respending on social media, and it
kind of shows with you know,just as I was kind of saying,
your alpha generation orgeneration alpha, is it gen
alpha?
Speaker 2 (37:40):
I think it's gen alpha.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Gen alpha.
So, as we see, with gen alphathey're spending 4.8 hours.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, because they've grown up fully connected, like
they have been born into a worldwhere everyone in the household
has a smartphone, has a laptopand there may be just additional
laptops and tablets floatingaround, like they may actually
have their very own tablets,like it's the baby's tablet.
Here you go, watch whatever itis Cocoa melon and be quiet.
(38:15):
Like it's not even.
Oh, you have to go to the TV.
You have to wait for, like,your program to come on or we
tape it.
No, it is here 24, seven access, all for you.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
So, as I said, you and I were, we're probably
seeing 51 of our our lifethrough social media.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
uh, jenna that makes me want to quit social media
generation alpha is probably god, 80, 90.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
If they're spending five hours a day, oh my gosh.
So, with all that said, wheredo we go from here?
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I mean, I think what you said earlier about
acknowledging that this is notreal life it is, in a way, we've
made it become real life, but Ithink that people need to do a
better job of really taking along look at because I see this
discussion going on, peoplesaying I just remember,
everything you see on socialmedia isn't real, and that is
(39:16):
true.
But I think we need to hammerthat point home, that it's not
real.
And that's not even talkingabout stuff like filters.
That's a whole other thing ofpeople using even dumb stuff
Like.
I've seen videos and thingsbeing like what X vacation spot
looks like on social media, whatit looks like in real life, and
(39:37):
of course, it looks waydifferent than what the travel
influencer is showing you, andnot just like fewer people.
But you know, of course they'vegot the, the retouched photos
and videos that are like sparklyand blue water and pristine
sand and it's like, oh, it maynot actually look that awesome.
I think we need to do, as asociety, a better job of
(39:59):
acknowledging that and drivingthat point home.
That's like this is not reallife.
It's actually not what you'reseeing.
There is just a part of lifeand that's okay.
But you can't assume that thisis everything, and then I think
we also probably need to do abetter job of enforcing rules.
(40:21):
So Australia passed a lawrecently that I don't know the
specifics on, but banning Ibelieve it's social media for
anyone 16 and under.
Had you seen that?
Speaker 1 (40:32):
No, I didn't see that .
Speaker 2 (40:34):
It just passed recently.
From when we're recording this,it passed like maybe a week or
so ago, and you know there's alot of people like, oh, that's
terrible.
You know, this is how kids aregetting information, this is how
they're staying abreast ontopics.
It's not.
Of course there are some kidswho are doing it.
(40:54):
Of course there are some kidswho are using it for good,
obviously, but the vast majorityof them no.
I would love to see more thingslike that being put in place.
Not necessarily we must ban allsocial media.
I don't think that's thecorrect response.
(41:14):
To just ban it makes it thislike interesting thing of like
oh, I'm not supposed to have itnow, I really want it, but doing
stuff like really cracking downon kids using their phones in
schools.
You and I both grew up in atime where that was not okay.
Well, you were already out ofhigh school, but like I was in a
high school when people startedgetting cell phones, but it was
still oh, like, not everyonehad one.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
My high school for me was you couldn't have a beeper,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Look, I've been trying so hard not to say this
whole episode, but you're old,I'm sorry it had to come out.
I'm dating myself too, if itmakes you feel better.
But like I remember being inhigh school and somebody's cell
phone might go off, it's like,oh, you're not supposed to have
that.
But they weren't smartphonesfirst off.
(42:06):
Nobody had that and noteveryone had one, but we were
just starting to see it whereit's like all right, you're not
supposed to have it out, you'renot supposed to be like texting
anybody during class andteachers would take it from you.
And now I hear stories frompeople who I know, who are
teachers, and they're like it'sa problem because kids have
their phones and they're textingeach other, they're on social
(42:29):
media, they're doing everythingthey're not supposed to and when
you try and take it away fromthem they raise hell and you,
the teacher, can get in serioustrouble from the school Because
Kitty goes home to Mommy and islike they took my phone away
during class.
Never mind that the kid has thephone back now, nothing was
done to it, it was just takenaway because you were on your
(42:51):
phone during class and Mommy,dearest, goes to the school and
threatens to have everyone firedand mommy dearest goes to the
school and threatens to likehave everyone fired.
It's like you know.
I think we have to, as asociety, put our foot down on
that type of behavior and belike yeah, we're not putting up
with this anymore.
Like that's done, you're.
You're banned from havingphones during school.
Oh, you know what?
If my mom needs to get incontact, then she can do it the
(43:11):
way that she experienced itherself when she was a kid,
which is that she calls theschool and the school calls your
classroom and says can youplease send child xyz up to the
main office.
There you go, you can still getin contact with your kid.
Why do you need to be incontact with your kid during
school hours?
They're supposed to be studying, they're supposed to be
(43:32):
learning, not talking to you.
You're supposed to be at work I, I definitely agree like I.
I think that that's a hugeproblem right there yeah, just
just like cutting that out, likethat's just that many fewer
hours that kids can be on theirphones.
I think we need to do a betterjob of educating people.
(43:54):
This is what we always talkabout, isn't it?
The education aspect.
But like, making sure peopleactually know the harms that
social media can cause whenyou're consuming too much of it.
Like, especially parents, evenjust kids themselves, giving
them the tools to be like isthis what you want your life to
be?
No, then you know here, hereare the tools that you now need.
(44:14):
So we gave you the tools tolearn, like, what this can do
and why it's bad.
What are the tools that you nowneed?
We gave you the tools to learnwhat this can do and why it's
bad, what are the good parts,what are the bad parts.
And then here are some tools tohelp you cut down on your usage
.
If you say, I see it, maybe I'm16.
I don't have the ability toreally force myself to stop
looking.
(44:35):
What are some other ways thatwe can help those kids who say,
like I want to.
I'm just not sure how.
And not just kids, but everyone.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
I agree, I think.
I think the biggest thing is isbeing able to educate, and the
funny thing is is not only kids,but adults too.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Because, just as I was kind of saying that even
myself being 45, like I had to,I didn't delete all my social
media, I just delete the apps.
So that way I can't go onto it.
Yeah, but even being 45, itstill is going to affect you,
like you might realisticallyknow, and that's something that
(45:21):
we all go through.
Our brain goes into this wholelike well, realistically I know
blah, blah, blah, but I stillfeel it when you're seeing it
day in and day out.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
It gets a lot harder to remind yourself that it's not
real.
This is a filter.
This is like a snapshot of asingle day, a single hour in one
person's life.
It gets really hard to remindyourself.
Sometimes it's like it's biggerthan this.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
So, yeah, definitely kids.
I definitely think that adults,Like I said, the models I've
seen where they take off all thecrap and show that they are a
human being I think that thingslike that should be pushed more.
(46:16):
I think that things like thatshould be pushed more and
unfortunately Zuckerberg and allthose cronies are not going to
push those types of things.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
No, because they benefit from you spending as
much time on there as possible.
Because the more time you spendon social media, the more ads
you see and the more ads.
You see the more money theymake, so they have no incentive.
This is the same problem we raninto when I was talking about
the momfluencers there is noincentive on the part of social
media companies to actually puta stop to this bad behavior
(46:48):
because it hurts their bottomline.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Yeah, exactly.
But yeah, I definitely thinkthat I would love to see more of
the models kind of doing thingslike that.
I would love to see both menand women, Because, just as well
with men, the six-pack thatthey have rub a little bit of
(47:14):
oil, they're going to becomemore defined.
Pack that they have Rub alittle bit of oil, they're going
to become more defined.
So being able to say, okay,yeah, I work out fucking eight
hours a day as a job and my absare not nearly what you're
seeing in my pictures.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Yeah, even making note of this is a photo.
I believe France has a law thatyou have to note if a photo has
been retouched, like, use an ad, which of course it has it's an
advertisement.
So, you know, I'm not quitesure if it's a great idea in
theory, but it's always justlike this little bitty thing
down at the bottom.
It's like ah, it's beenretouched, but maybe we, you
(47:53):
know, do a better job of forcingthat, enforcing that, rather on
social media.
It's like, if you are aninfluence, if you make money off
of this, if you use a filter,if you're using AI, if you're
retouching stuff, now it doesn'tprevent people from doing as
you said.
You get a little pump going andyou oil yourself up and you get
the lighting just right.
(48:13):
There's only so much you canforce people to disclose, but at
the very least, it forcespeople to do the work, as
opposed to just, you know,popping six filters on and
taking a photo, cause you knowthe filters work with videos too
.
At this point, and.
I think a lot of people don'tknow that or aren't thinking
about that that you can actuallyhave a video of you actively
(48:36):
moving around doing stuff with afilter on that makes you look
perfect, you know, pulls in yourwaist or something like that
and I think we need to startforcing people to disclose that
publicly on the video.
Like something has to be likereally obvious.
I'm not saying you can't use AIfor these things, but if you
were going to make money off ofthis video, you have to disclose
(48:58):
it.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
I think that using AI has to bebecause, like there are, ai is
getting better.
You know it's you.
(49:21):
You see ai pictures from like ayear ago, even where you would
see somebody with like threenostrils, or you know they would
have one short arm, or you know, like something obvious yeah,
and now you have to like,especially for people,
especially if it's done withlike a good program.
You have to look yeah, yeah, youreally, I mean nowadays, yeah,
you really have to look, and thething is, is that I mean we're
(49:45):
talking, you know, a yearbetween then and now?
The super obvious to the youhave to look, give it another
year, it's gonna be next toimpossible yeah and so I I
definitely think that ai isdefinitely going to need to have
its own little thing yeah butwith all that being said, where
(50:10):
would you put this on our scaleof toxicity?
would you say that this is agreen potato, shave it off and
you'll be fine, but or would yousay that this is a death cap
mushroom where 50, 50 shotgetting killed, or antifreeze
where it's a delightful lastmeal?
Speaker 2 (50:30):
I will say that social media is a death cap
mushroom, because obviously wedidn't talk about here, because
we are the toxic cooking show.
We don't talk about good things, we only talk about the shitty
ones.
Social media can be used forgood, and social media is used
for good in many different cases.
(50:52):
I have seen so.
I have, like family and friendsin Western North Carolina, some
of whom were heavily affectedby Hurricane Helene, and I've
seen a lot of people posting andcontinuing to post stuff about
that, like getting resources out.
I mean some of them.
This was not somebody that Iknew well, but she lost her
(51:12):
house in the hurricane.
Like when the flooding happened, she lost everything and people
were helping you happened, shelost everything and people were
helping, you know, get her stuff.
There were others who were morefortunate but still like didn't
have running water for a monthand they were using social media
to get resources out to othersand to find resources to say,
(51:32):
okay, how do we get the stuffthat we need and how do we get
stuff to people?
You know we have what we need.
How do we get the stuff that weneed and how do we get stuff to
people?
We have what we need.
How do we continue to helpothers?
We see it used around the worldfor people sharing information.
That's why it often gets cut.
When there are social unrest.
That's happening because peoplewill share information about
hey, there's a protest here, heythere's this that's happening,
(51:53):
hey there's that.
So it can be very good, but itcan also be really, really,
really bad, and I think on adaily basis we see a lot of that
bad, like in your just ownpersonal scrolling.
Or it had been tinkered withwith AI and they're presenting
something that's just it's nottrue.
Or they're simply presentingit's like here's my happy,
(52:24):
wonderful life of me and myhusband and my two kids and it's
perfect.
Yeah, you guys scream at eachother every night before you go
to bed.
I just don't see that partbecause you're not posting it.
I just see the cute familyphotos and a couple of years.
All of a sudden, you're goingto change your name to your
first name and your middle nameand you're going to change your
profile photo and I'm going tohave to do a deep dive and be
like, oop, when did the divorcehappen?
So, yeah, I would say Death CatMushroom.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
I would agree with you 100% that, yes, there are
good things that come out ofsocial media, everything that
you kind of just said, thingsthat come out of social media,
everything that you kind of justsaid.
I think that also, social mediacan be used as a healthy thing,
because one of the things thatdoes happen to a lot of people
is that they feel accepted.
(53:10):
They see that other people aregoing through the same type of
struggles that they're goingthrough.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
Yep, you can find other people who are going
through the same thing.
You can connect with goingthrough Yep.
You can find other people whoare going through the same thing
.
You can connect with people inyour area if you've just moved,
if you have a specific hobbysocial media is a great way to
be like, hey, can I come too?
And people are like yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
But unfortunately, I think that the shit that we were
talking about today is mostlywhat's getting pushed.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:39):
But yeah, I think that social media, if it was
used in a positive way, it couldbe very positive Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
And so, with that being said, you should follow us
on all of our social media.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Thank you so much for listening.
Definitely should follow us onour social media.
Thank you so much for listening.
Definitely should follow us onour social media.
We don't have anything toxic.
No filters here.
Nope, we are on X, we are onTikTok.
We are on Facebook.
We are on Instagram.
Did I forget anything?
Speaker 2 (54:13):
There are five of them Threads.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
And we are on thread, so please feel free to follow
us and if you have any thingthat you want to add, please
feel free to write us at toxic,at awesome life skillscom, and
please rate and leave a commenton our, on our page.
(54:36):
Kind of getting the message outthere.
So thank you so much forlistening.
I've been Christopher Patchett,lcsw.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
And I've been Lindsay McLean.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
Bye, thank you.
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people to theirsimplest ingredients.
I'm your host, christopherPatchett LCSW.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And I'm Lindsay McLean.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
There's something I've noticed a lot of my clients
kind of going through and Ithink that this would be a good
thing to kind of talk about.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Uh-oh.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
And it is ye olde social media.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
You know, I'm not surprised, I'm not surprised.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
It's a lot of times I hear people saying about how
they see on Facebook orInstagram, like everybody else
is getting married but me,everybody else is buying a house
but me, everybody else going onvacation but me they're having
kids, they're getting cute pets,they're redecorating the house
that they bought.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, it's all the like nice, cool, fun things.
Everyone's doing it, except me.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, this is kind of something that a lot of people
are facing.
They're looking on social mediaall the time and they're seeing
all these things that differentpeople are doing, and then
they're kind of making thatcomparison of themselves versus
other people.
So before I start, I'm going togive you some statistics.
(01:31):
On average, people arefollowing about 150 to 200
people on Instagram.
Also, people are followingabout 20 influencers on
Instagram.
10% of those people thatthey're following are
influencers.
Average time that somebodyspends on social media is two
(01:54):
hours what's that?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
I said I don't want to know this one it's actually
not as bad as I thought.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
It's only two hours and 23 minutes.
But out of 24 hours in the day.
I mean it's yeah, Well, sowe'll get to that.
We'll get to that, Okay.
But what is bad is the averageteenager, Gen Alpha.
They're spending about fourhours, 48 minutes, oh.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
No, no, yeah, almost five hours a day on social media
.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Oh God, we're fucked as a society.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Well, even us, even people, our age, oh yeah, okay,
so two hours and 23 minutes,just as you said.
Out of 24 hours, that's onetwelfth, a little over one
twelfth of our day is spent onsocial media.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
And that's you take out eight hours for sleep, eight
hours for working.
That gives us eight hours leftin the day.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
And you just spend a quarter of that over a quarter
of that.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, over a quarter of that is on social media.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, and obviously I know that that's not all one
chunk in the evening, like it'sbroken up, so it may be during
the day where it's like, well,I'm at work and I've got like a
little bit of downtime, so youknow, scroll 10 minutes here,
I'm on the train going to workand I'm scrolling there, but
even still that's a lot of time.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Right, and here's the thing, like we talked about
this before, and on average, you, how often are you actually
interacting with other peoplelike face to face?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I don't like this question because it calls me out
.
Um, I mean, I would say, acouple times a week I'll see, at
this point, like I'll see afriend or someone, and then I
have my kickboxing class andthen I have my old people
gardening club, but I work fromhome and I don't have meetings
(04:16):
or calls or anything withanybody, so like I can go a
whole day actually withoutactually seeing or like
interacting face to face withsomebody.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So, between kickboxing, between seeing, like
your friends, how much timewould you say that all together?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
In a week.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I mean kickboxing two hours, gardening club is
two-ish hours.
That one's a little bit lessface to face, because sometimes
you're just like plucking weedsin the ground.
But there are, there are peoplearound you, like physical
people around you, and then Idon't know, another couple of
hours so all together maybeabout seven, eight hours yeah
(05:00):
and that's about the same withme, like I'll.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
I'll kind of hang out with people, usually like on
Thursday nights and maybe Friday, saturday nights, and
altogether it's maybe six, sevenhours.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
And you figure two hours, 23 minutes per per day on
social media, that's 15 and ahalf hours per week.
So twice of our time is spent onsocial media as it is in real
life yeah, yeah, yeah so here,here's kind of the thing is that
(05:41):
you think about, just as I saidbefore, 10% of the people that
we're following are most likelyinfluencers.
Influencers they're gettingpaid to go out and take these
cool-ass shots and be able to goon vacation and go to different
(06:05):
places in the world, or evenjust renovate their home.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
I think a lot of people kind of forget that a lot
of this is like you know.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Oh, then I partnered with the home depot and it's
like, yep, that's how you paidthat, like that's how this room
you were able to refurnish likethree rooms in a row, is that
the paint and the wood gotbankrolled, which is okay, but
like it's not, not, everyone cankeep doing this, house after
house after house and we'vetalked about this before with
(06:36):
like trad wives where they havelike 20,000 kids and still they
find time somehow to you know,bake and you know, do all these
things around the house andthings like that kind of chances
are that they're getting paidfor this a lot of money, and
(06:57):
what we don't see is the nannytaking over while trad wife is
writing out these scripts andthings like that.
So again, influencers, they're,they're being paid for this.
You know, whether it isvacation time, whether it is a
home run renovations, whether itis guarding, whether it's
(07:19):
cooking, they are literallygetting paid for this yeah, it
is their job right and onaverage you kind of figure.
It's kind of the same thing assaying, like how many movie
stars do you know personally?
Yeah and and how many peoplewould want to be a movie star.
So you I'm sure you know, andactually we both know, some
(07:46):
people who have tried to go intothe acting world and are stuck
where they were and in their 30sstill trying to break the
industry.
Yeah, seen a couple yeah, youknow, in all reality, not
(08:09):
everybody who wants to be amovie star is going to be a
movie star, just like anybodywho wants to be an influencer is
not going to be an influencer.
And even most of yourinfluencers quote, quote,
unquote are very low level, sothey're not even making money
off of it and they're putting alot of money into it so hoping
(08:35):
to have this lifted off theground.
But in the meantime, we'reseeing all these influencers,
we're seeing all the things thatpeople are doing, and we end up
looking at our lives and we'relike what the fuck am I doing?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
And even with our friends.
We see these people online andwe constantly see like
influencers that are doing allthese cool things, and then, on
top of that, our friends.
That's where the other half oflike, oh, I've seen my friends
doing this, I've seen my friendsdoing this, I've seen my
(09:13):
friends doing this and here'skind of the big part about that
is subtracting the 20influencers on our average
person.
That still leaves 180 peoplethat we're following, People
that we've either known for along time whether it's somebody
that we met on a date once andnever got to view their profile
(09:38):
again.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I think we all have a couple of those you just met at
some point.
They're hanging out on yourFacebook or Instagram
periodically.
You're like who are you?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
again.
Oh my God.
Yeah, I can't tell you how manytimes that has happened.
It's either somebody that Iknew in the Navy that they were
like in a completely differentdepartment, but since a lot of
their friends matched up with myfriends, they decided to add me
and I'm like okay.
(10:07):
I know we served in the Navytogether, but I probably talked
to you once 20 years ago Like hi.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah, this is why I keep a very tight lid on both my
Instagram and Facebook, likeI've gone through numerous
purges of both.
Just periodically go throughand you're like I never liked
you anyway, god.
I want you on here.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
So even even that 180 people that we have left, you
figure there there's 52 weeks ina, in a year.
Chances are that's going togive us about three, three
people per week.
So that that's three people perweek that that have their own
special week and you kind offigure how often it is that you
(10:56):
go on vacation.
You know, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I thought you were asking me and I was like I don't
go on vacation, I'm poor, Iokay.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Wait, wait, poor I.
Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait,wait, no, no, I don't want to
hear this shit from you becauseyou might not go on this like
luxury vacation, but you, youjust, uh, not too long ago, were
in a wedding in india, or Ibelieve, or no, okay, so the
last.
(11:27):
No, no, no you were at a uh, afriend's wedding, weren't you
not too long?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
ago.
That was a year and a half,okay.
So the last vacation I went onwas in August.
I went to go see a friend for along weekend.
Before that, the last likevacation I took was a year
previous.
I went to Germany for a coupleof days for a friend's wedding,
and then, a month or so beforethat, the wedding you're
(11:52):
thinking of is a friend who herhusband is Sri Lankan, and so we
were.
It was the Sri Lankan weddingand I was part of the like
bridesmaids, but that was herein France.
I didn't travel anywhere, okay,mates, but that was here in
France.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I didn't travel anywhere, okay, so, so things
like that, even that, okay, you,it was there in France and you
didn't travel anywhere, but itwas still like a huge event.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
So, whether it's vacation or whether it's a huge
event or whether it's somethingthat that you've done, you know,
if you are kind of seeing thison a day-to-day basis and you're
seeing that, oh well, thisperson went on vacation and I
think it can very quicklysnowball where it feels like
everybody is and everybody justwent on one which is like a
(12:41):
normal amount, or one or twolittle things here or there, but
because it's you've got 180 ofthese people, it's just like
everybody's going on vacation.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, you too, you were on vacation somewhere as
well at some point.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
You know and and this , this were kind of like that,
that whole thing that I was kindof saying about you were at a
friend's wedding.
That was a you know know a yearand a half ago, yeah, and so if
you, if you're seeing, ifyou're seeing, like you know,
somebody uh going to a wedding,and you're seeing that this
person over here is going onvacation and this person over
(13:19):
here just bought a house andthis person over here just got
married, this person over here Igot a, had a baby.
Okay, you're, you're talkingabout five completely different
people and we end up trying tokind of combine them into a
person yeah and by a person Imean every other person.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
It's just the internet.
All of my friends.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Right, and that's the thing is that you're saying
that, okay, everybody's gettingmarried, but me, everybody's
having kids, but me, everybody'sdoing that, everybody,
everybody, everybody, everybody.
But the thing is is that wedon't see the other side of life
.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I was just about to say nobody.
Well, that's not true.
There are some people who putentirely too much information
online, and so you do know whenthey're getting a divorce and
you do know when they'refighting with their significant
other, but most people don't putthat on there, like you're only
putting the happy things, soyou never see the little daily
(14:29):
struggles going on their lifeand not only that, but okay, so
I know with me.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
As far as instagram, you know, and and this is yeah,
you're right as far as me oninstagram, last time I posted
something was I, I don't knowfucking months ago.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
I was about to say when was the last time we just
send each other memes on there?
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, I mean me actuallyposting something.
I might post a picture of Molly.
I know like right now myFacebook picture is a picture of
Molly.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
As it should be.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
As it should be, as it should be, and I might post
on there either somethingwritten or a picture or whatever
, maybe two or three times ayear.
And if you're seeing this andagain, you have 180 people and
(15:25):
they're posting three, four,five times a year, a year, and
different people are going to gothrough different things at
different times.
So you might be seeing thisperson on vacation, this person
having a luxury meal, thisperson who just got proposed to
(15:49):
and that's going to be the lasttime that you see them posting
for a year or five, six monthsand this person next week now
this person's buying a house,and this person, you know, et
cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
I also think there's a tendency to like when things
are going really well, peoplepost a lot.
Which kind of makes it seemeven more present.
Is that one person is gettingmarried this year out of your
friend group, one single one,but she will not shut up about
it.
And so every time that you logon, it's new pictures, new this,
(16:26):
new that, all of these things.
We're looking at weddinginvitations here's the sign I'm
trying on dresses which of thesebridesmaids dresses should we
get?
We're doing floral, we'retrying the cake, the lead up to
the wedding, then the weddingitself, and for days afterward
they're posting photos.
Sometimes I've seen people who,for like months afterward,
(16:48):
continue to post photos fromtheir wedding and they're like
it's been six months.
I just want to, you know, thankso-and-so for doing the flowers
.
It's like please stop.
It was one wedding, one person,but yeah, it just.
It fills up your feed with likeeveryone's getting married
because she won't shut up aboutit not speaking from personal
(17:11):
experience or anything yeah, youjust see it on your feed
because melissa can't shut thefuck up about it.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Not that I'm thinking about anybody in particular no,
no, no, never Damn you, melissa.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
I'm so glad I don't have a friend named Melissa.
That bitch, she sold me out.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
But, yeah you know, we're taking in all these people
.
We're saying that everybody isdoing this except for us, and a
lot of times when I'm workingwith a client, it's going to
affect the way that we seethings.
It's going to affect the waythat we see things, so it's
going to affect the way that wesee ourselves.
And another thing is that we youknow, like I said, we don't see
(18:02):
the other half of things.
So the person who is constantlygoing on vacation, you know the
person who's going on four orfive, six vacations a year they
might be eating top ramen andliving in a studio apartment
because going on vacation tothem is extremely important,
(18:24):
which absolutely nothing wrongwith that.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
That's your choice.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's yourchoice.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, the person who bought a new house.
We don't know all the thingsthat they went through in order
to buy a new house.
When I was living in Brooklyn,to buy a condo was 600,000.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And if I see a friend of mine who lives down in
Kentucky buying a brand new bigass house, they're probably
paying like two 50.
But if I have it in my headthat you know like, oh my God,
they must be making so muchmoney, blah, blah, blah, and in
all reality they're, they'repaying.
You know like, oh my god, theymust be making so much money,
blah, blah, blah, and in allreality they're paying.
(19:14):
You know, a quarter of a condoin New York?
Yeah, we don't, are you?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
surprised they're that cheap in New York.
A whole condo.
This was yeah, I mean well, soit's a one bedroom condo oh,
okay, I was imagining like,because the condos I've seen it
was like suburban type ones andso they're bigger, they're for
like a family.
Okay, that makes more sense.
(19:44):
Yeah, carry on, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah, we're not talking luxury condos, we're
talking like you're starting at$600,000.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that sounds about right.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
But yeah, something in Kentucky or some shit like
that, you can buy a three-storyhouse for like $250, $300 or,
yeah, $300.
Brb over to Kentucky $250,$300,000, which is not even half
(20:21):
, or just half of a studioapartment in New York.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
And again, you know, if somebody, if you've seen
somebody who is constantlyhaving luxury foods, we don't
know their lifestyle, we don'tknow how much they're paying for
other things, we don't know howmuch they're making.
That's kind of.
One of the other things is thatwe look at ourselves and we're
like how are all these peopleaffording all these things?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Credit card debt.
I mean not all of them, butyeah, credit card debt.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
I mean not all of them, but, yeah, credit card
debt.
And again, we don't know whatthey're giving up in order to
have these things.
So I'm not going to be eatingTop Ramen every day for the rest
of my life just because I wantto go on vacation.
Yeah, the one vacation I do goon, that is probably the only
thing that I spend big money on.
(21:13):
Outside of that, nothing.
No, I'm not going to bespending a lot of money on on
other things, yeah, but you know, again, we, we kind of combine
all these people into one personand say like, oh, you know,
everybody's getting married,everybody's getting.
You know, the house,everybody's doing this,
everybody's doing that.
(21:33):
And then we're looking at ournine-to-five desk job and we're
like, and I'm just sitting heredoing jack shit, mm-hmm.
So another big thing that isreally affecting us and is body
image, yes, and so even MarkZuckeruckerberg changing
(21:54):
facebook to meta that that was ahuge part of that whole change
is just because of the fact thatzuckerberg finally admitted
that, yes, we're, we're pushingout these, these influencers and
everything like that.
And you know, especially liketeenagers are, you know,
especially like teenagers?
Are, you know, picking up onall this and they're kind of
(22:16):
making those comparisons.
So you know, one of thebeautiful things, have you ever
seen one of these?
It's like a model and she doeseverything in reverse.
So you know, I've seen thismaybe two or three times and I
give such props to these peoplewho do this and you see them,
(22:37):
they start off, they come off,they're, they're extremely
beautiful, like attractive asall hell.
You know.
A 10 out of 10 off all the yeahoh, yeah, yeah, so so they,
they're, they're, you know,taking off their, their, you
know all the extensions.
They're taking off all theextensions.
They're taking out the makeup,they're taking off the filters,
they're taking off all thesedifferent things and then, when
(23:00):
you get to see them for who theytruly are, yeah, they just look
normal.
Yeah, normal person.
It's funny, I, I remember, um,when I lived in la, and not
gonna say the person's name, butI remember that I uh this is
(23:22):
gonna tell you how long ago thiswas uh, I saw an ad on
craigslist when I was lookingfor a place to live, and so I
found this one ad and it was,you know, looking for a roommate
and must enjoy like music.
I was like cool, you know, Ilove music, that's me.
(23:44):
So I wrote to the person.
I said like you know, hey, youknow this and the other, and I'm
looking for a place to move.
You know, hey, you know this,that and the other, and I'm
looking for a place to move.
You know, june 1st or whatever.
And so, you know, the personreplied back and she's like yeah
, you know, come on over, we'llkind of just meet up and we'll
(24:05):
talk, hang out for a bit.
My husband is a musician, reallybig name, not huge name, but
like I mean people know.
And then she's like you know,like, and you know, I've worked
in adult uh videos, and so I waslike cool, like you know, like
(24:30):
can be, you know, possiblymoving in with a rock star and a
porno girl, and so I was justlike curiosity.
So I, you know, she told meboth the names.
I didn't hear them, either one,the rock star or the actress.
And so I was like, okay, youknow, let me look at these
people out.
And I saw the actress.
(24:50):
And you know like, oh, let melook at these people out.
And I saw the actress and likeoh my God, damn, damn, she's hot
.
So I went over there the nextday, knocked on the door and she
answered the door and I waslike I'm thinking in my head so
you're the maid, where are thesetwo?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Because she just looked so normal.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, I mean, she looked absolutely normal.
And this person she was, Ibelieve, very well known.
So when I looked her up online,there was endless amount of
pictures and forms andeverything talking about her.
Yeah, so she was pretty wellknown and, again, normal human
(25:41):
being.
And that's kind of the thing isthat if we're seeing these
influencers and we're seeing thebody image and things like that
and we're like, oh my God, lookat all body image and things
like that.
And we're like, oh my God, likeyou know, like look at all
these people and look at myself,here I am.
You know my hair is too thin,or you know like my face is too
(26:03):
pale, or you know like I'moverweight, or this, that or the
other.
And not only is that creatingsomething harsh for the person
viewing it about themselves, butalso puts in a lot of
expectations yeah, it does.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Because you see that and you're like, well, this is
what the gym girlies look like.
They've got, you know, the cutelittle matching sets.
They've got the perfectly donehair.
They're doing their littleexercises.
Their butt already looks nice.
Nothing is out of place.
Everything is perfect.
I can't achieve that.
Why would I go to the gym?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Right, yeah, and even the expectations of each other.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah, because then you see that.
So it's like well know, my, mygirlfriend should look like this
, because all the other, all thegirls I see on instagram look
like this, and not just fordudes, obviously.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
like it goes both ways, and even like within
genders, I think people canstart to be like well, this is
what you're supposed to looklike, and so anybody who doesn't
achieve that standard is sloppy, is lazy, doesn't care, etc
yeah, exactly like every girl inthe world should have, like you
know, uh, double d boobs, andevery guy in the world should be
(27:17):
cut, you know, abs out the ass,and so it puts a lot of
pressure on people as far aswhat they expect from themselves
and what they expect from otherpeople.
And the thing is is that youknow this is not a new problem.
You know we've.
(27:40):
I even remember in the 90s,growing up and hearing about
this on.
You know the models and thingslike that.
Well, the thing is at that timereally I have to go out to
search for that there was somethings like MTV had House of
Fashion and things like that,but the majority of it was it
(28:04):
wasn't so much in your face.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, and I think with social media it's in your
face all the time and it movesso quickly.
You have these little trendsthat appear like mob wife,
mobster wife, whichever one itwas, that just appeared at some
point this year or last year, Idon't even remember, and it was
this trend in how you weresupposed to dress and then
(28:26):
instantly just kind of droppedoff again, but for a brief
period.
Do you even know what I'mtalking about?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Not a fucking clue.
I was just about to ask.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Exactly it was.
You know, like the if I saidlike a mobster's wife, you know
kind of the image you picture of, like the big fur coat, the
gold, like that kind of thing.
That was a very brief trendthat just like shot into outer
space and like came back downagain and people like I want to
do this.
But there's this expectationpeople saw and they're like,
(28:55):
well, I need, I need to do this,I need to get on trend.
And so you go out there, youbuy all this stuff off of
fucking timu and it's alreadycrap that you're getting and
let's not forget that people arebeing abused to make this stuff
for you and you wear it likethree times and the trend is
over and you eat it and you haveto go buy more stuff for the
(29:16):
next trend.
If you think that, like ifyou're trying to do that because
you think that it's important,because you see it on social
media and social media makes youfeel like you are missing out
If you're not doing this trend.
Everyone's on this trend,everyone's doing whatever nails,
everyone's doing whatevermakeup.
Only you aren't.
That is not true.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, yeah.
So you know social media is, isnot real life.
It's, unfortunately, and andthis is kind of the thing that I
was kind of saying about beforeis that on average, you know,
you and I both we were kind ofsaying that maybe interacting
with other people, we'respending seven hours a week as
(29:59):
opposed to 15 hours, so that'sdouble the time that we're
spending on social media than weare in real life than we are in
real life.
So 51% of the people that we'reseeing are, you know, these
(30:19):
chiseled out people, or peopleon vacation, or people who are
having great food, or people whoare having, you know, buying
the new house, or the people whoare just getting married.
And we look at our lives andwe're like I'm so fucking boring
, like you know, like.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, I don't have any of these things.
I'm, you know, falling behindLike something's wrong with me.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
So I've noticed this a lot with, I would say, 35 and
younger.
It is probably the majority ofwhat my clients have kind of
came up with, probably themajority of what my clients have
kind of came up with, and Imean even myself I recently had
(31:04):
to let go of social media as awhole because of the fact that
it was kind of driving me insanejust as well.
And I mean, that's kind of thething is that again we're
spending so much time on socialmedia that we're forgetting that
that's not the reality ofthings.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Well, I think that you know when you say 35 and
younger.
So I was born in 91, which wasthe year the Internet came out.
So, yes, we talk about you know, gen Z growing up with the
Internet and all of that.
But it actually started alittle bit before you know Gen Z
growing up with the internetand all of that.
But it actually started alittle bit before you know Gen Z
came along and the internet washere.
It was in homes, but I also hadthat as a millennial Like I
remember having a computer, likea household computer, and you
(31:45):
had dial up and you were gettingon.
So, like you know, we were thegroup, that kind of like.
Just as stuff was becomingrelevant to us, like things were
being created for us, like wewere the first wave to hit it.
Because what Facebook opened upto everyone in 2007, 2008,
(32:07):
somewhere around in there, Iknow I was in high school.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
I was going to say, I think Facebook.
Well, I mean, facebook wasthere.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
I was going to say I think Facebook Well, I mean
Facebook was there, but it wasonly for, like, college students
, and then at a certain point itopened up to like everyone.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
So it was 2008 when, when I joined Facebook.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
And I remember I was one of the last people to join
Facebook because of the factthat I was like MySpace forever.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
So 2007 sticks in my head as like when people started
to join, and I can't bebothered to look it up right now
to see if that's true or not.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
So as far as false information, I mean, I would
guess that 2007 is about thetime where it opened up, yeah,
but oh yeah, go on I was gonnasay definitely 2008, because
that was the year that I joinedyeah, and I remember my space
from like the beginning of highschool.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
That like that was because I had a my space.
Very briefly, and then I gotfacebook.
But like you think about youknow, high school is like when
you really start to middleschool is when you kind of
become aware in high school iswhen you're like really aware of
like all the people and things,and so we were the first kind
of generation to be goingthrough it at that time that 35
(33:26):
ish and younger that like wewere getting hit by that.
It's like facebook's here andinstagram is here and snapchat
and tick like, well, tick, tock.
We missed that's.
That's for the younger ones,but we've grown up with that and
so I'm not surprised that theseare the people who are having
the most kind of trouble pullingthemselves away and being like
(33:48):
this is not not reality.
What I'm seeing here is notreality.
I think older people didn'thave that, have a better chance
of kind of putting that bufferand being like I had life before
social media and so I can kindof see better maybe.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
So MySpace came out when I was 21.
Okay, 21, 22.
I think it came out 2001, 2002.
I was in the Navy when I firstjoined, so 2002 is when I was in
, so maybe 2001 is when itreally kind of opened up.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
So also at that time that when I would go on to
MySpace I actually had to go tothe V or the uh USO and use the
computer there.
And so you know, even evenpeople my age, where they were
(34:47):
21, 22, when it first came outyou weren't connected all the
time.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Yeah, you weren't connected all the time.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, you weren't connected all the time, so you
actually had to physically havea desktop computer if people
know what that is anymore sothey would have to actually go
to a desktop computer and openup myspace and actually search
around on it.
And that meant that you had tosit there and actually sit and
(35:15):
look at this stuff.
You couldn't just be on thetrain, you couldn't be on, you
know, out in public or anythinglike that.
And yeah, just kind of how youwere saying that phones probably
like so it was 2008 when yeah,it was 2008 when the iphone
(35:37):
first came out, so that that wasyour first cell phone that you
could go online with yeah, ofcourse it takes a while to sort
of trickle down, because I don'tlike.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
When we were in college there were still a lot
of us who did not havesmartphones at the time, and it
was starting to become a bit ofan oddity then what, what kind
of fun did you have when, when Ifirst met you?
I.
I don't remember if I had it atthat very moment, but I know
that year was the year I hadthat little bitty phone that was
(36:10):
like maybe half the width of mypalm and it like the screen
flipped up.
You know, of course it was oneof those ones where you had to
like to type out the.
You know, it was like you clickthe numbers, you know one, two,
three times, and one, two, one,two, three, like yeah, yeah,
that's what I grew up with.
Like very briefly, I hit thatwhere I was like I have a phone
(36:31):
I can text, and it was only acouple of years.
Then we moved into twosmartphones, thank God.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
And so I remember my first smartphone was a
Blackberry and that was 2009.
Yeah, so by that time I wasalready 29.
So I had gone 29 years of mylife before social media became
a constant thing, so you know.
And then even thinking of likesocial media itself, okay, so
(37:03):
you had Facebook, and that wasabout an eight, until about 2008
when Twitter came out, and then2011 when Instagram came out,
and then 2018 is when TikTokcame out, but it didn't get
popular until 2020.
So I mean, all these things arerelatively new, only like 15
(37:23):
years.
So I mean, as time kind ofprogresses, the more and more
time that we're spending onsocial media and it kind of
shows with you know, just as Iwas, kind of progresses the more
and more time that we'respending on social media, and it
kind of shows with you know,just as I was kind of saying,
your alpha generation orgeneration alpha, is it gen
alpha?
Speaker 2 (37:40):
I think it's gen alpha.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Gen alpha.
So, as we see, with gen alphathey're spending 4.8 hours.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, because they've grown up fully connected, like
they have been born into a worldwhere everyone in the household
has a smartphone, has a laptopand there may be just additional
laptops and tablets floatingaround, like they may actually
have their very own tablets,like it's the baby's tablet.
Here you go, watch whatever itis Cocoa melon and be quiet.
(38:15):
Like it's not even.
Oh, you have to go to the TV.
You have to wait for, like,your program to come on or we
tape it.
No, it is here 24, seven access, all for you.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
So, as I said, you and I were, we're probably
seeing 51 of our our lifethrough social media.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
uh, jenna that makes me want to quit social media
generation alpha is probably god, 80, 90.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
If they're spending five hours a day, oh my gosh.
So, with all that said, wheredo we go from here?
Speaker 2 (38:55):
I mean, I think what you said earlier about
acknowledging that this is notreal life it is, in a way, we've
made it become real life, but Ithink that people need to do a
better job of really taking along look at because I see this
discussion going on, peoplesaying I just remember,
everything you see on socialmedia isn't real, and that is
(39:16):
true.
But I think we need to hammerthat point home, that it's not
real.
And that's not even talkingabout stuff like filters.
That's a whole other thing ofpeople using even dumb stuff
Like.
I've seen videos and thingsbeing like what X vacation spot
looks like on social media, whatit looks like in real life, and
(39:37):
of course, it looks waydifferent than what the travel
influencer is showing you, andnot just like fewer people.
But you know, of course they'vegot the, the retouched photos
and videos that are like sparklyand blue water and pristine
sand and it's like, oh, it maynot actually look that awesome.
I think we need to do, as asociety, a better job of
(39:59):
acknowledging that and drivingthat point home.
That's like this is not reallife.
It's actually not what you'reseeing.
There is just a part of lifeand that's okay.
But you can't assume that thisis everything, and then I think
we also probably need to do abetter job of enforcing rules.
(40:21):
So Australia passed a lawrecently that I don't know the
specifics on, but banning Ibelieve it's social media for
anyone 16 and under.
Had you seen that?
Speaker 1 (40:32):
No, I didn't see that .
Speaker 2 (40:34):
It just passed recently.
From when we're recording this,it passed like maybe a week or
so ago, and you know there's alot of people like, oh, that's
terrible.
You know, this is how kids aregetting information, this is how
they're staying abreast ontopics.
It's not.
Of course there are some kidswho are doing it.
(40:54):
Of course there are some kidswho are using it for good,
obviously, but the vast majorityof them no.
I would love to see more thingslike that being put in place.
Not necessarily we must ban allsocial media.
I don't think that's thecorrect response.
(41:14):
To just ban it makes it thislike interesting thing of like
oh, I'm not supposed to have itnow, I really want it, but doing
stuff like really cracking downon kids using their phones in
schools.
You and I both grew up in atime where that was not okay.
Well, you were already out ofhigh school, but like I was in a
high school when people startedgetting cell phones, but it was
still oh, like, not everyonehad one.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
My high school for me was you couldn't have a beeper,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Look, I've been trying so hard not to say this
whole episode, but you're old,I'm sorry it had to come out.
I'm dating myself too, if itmakes you feel better.
But like I remember being inhigh school and somebody's cell
phone might go off, it's like,oh, you're not supposed to have
that.
But they weren't smartphonesfirst off.
(42:06):
Nobody had that and noteveryone had one, but we were
just starting to see it whereit's like all right, you're not
supposed to have it out, you'renot supposed to be like texting
anybody during class andteachers would take it from you.
And now I hear stories frompeople who I know, who are
teachers, and they're like it'sa problem because kids have
their phones and they're textingeach other, they're on social
(42:29):
media, they're doing everythingthey're not supposed to and when
you try and take it away fromthem they raise hell and you,
the teacher, can get in serioustrouble from the school Because
Kitty goes home to Mommy and islike they took my phone away
during class.
Never mind that the kid has thephone back now, nothing was
done to it, it was just takenaway because you were on your
(42:51):
phone during class and Mommy,dearest, goes to the school and
threatens to have everyone firedand mommy dearest goes to the
school and threatens to likehave everyone fired.
It's like you know.
I think we have to, as asociety, put our foot down on
that type of behavior and belike yeah, we're not putting up
with this anymore.
Like that's done, you're.
You're banned from havingphones during school.
Oh, you know what?
If my mom needs to get incontact, then she can do it the
(43:11):
way that she experienced itherself when she was a kid,
which is that she calls theschool and the school calls your
classroom and says can youplease send child xyz up to the
main office.
There you go, you can still getin contact with your kid.
Why do you need to be incontact with your kid during
school hours?
They're supposed to be studying, they're supposed to be
(43:32):
learning, not talking to you.
You're supposed to be at work I, I definitely agree like I.
I think that that's a hugeproblem right there yeah, just
just like cutting that out, likethat's just that many fewer
hours that kids can be on theirphones.
I think we need to do a betterjob of educating people.
(43:54):
This is what we always talkabout, isn't it?
The education aspect.
But like, making sure peopleactually know the harms that
social media can cause whenyou're consuming too much of it.
Like, especially parents, evenjust kids themselves, giving
them the tools to be like isthis what you want your life to
be?
No, then you know here, hereare the tools that you now need.
(44:14):
So we gave you the tools tolearn, like, what this can do
and why it's bad.
What are the tools that you nowneed?
We gave you the tools to learnwhat this can do and why it's
bad, what are the good parts,what are the bad parts.
And then here are some tools tohelp you cut down on your usage
.
If you say, I see it, maybe I'm16.
I don't have the ability toreally force myself to stop
looking.
(44:35):
What are some other ways thatwe can help those kids who say,
like I want to.
I'm just not sure how.
And not just kids, but everyone.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
I agree, I think.
I think the biggest thing is isbeing able to educate, and the
funny thing is is not only kids,but adults too.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Because, just as I was kind of saying that even
myself being 45, like I had to,I didn't delete all my social
media, I just delete the apps.
So that way I can't go onto it.
Yeah, but even being 45, itstill is going to affect you,
like you might realisticallyknow, and that's something that
(45:21):
we all go through.
Our brain goes into this wholelike well, realistically I know
blah, blah, blah, but I stillfeel it when you're seeing it
day in and day out.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
It gets a lot harder to remind yourself that it's not
real.
This is a filter.
This is like a snapshot of asingle day, a single hour in one
person's life.
It gets really hard to remindyourself.
Sometimes it's like it's biggerthan this.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
So, yeah, definitely kids.
I definitely think that adults,Like I said, the models I've
seen where they take off all thecrap and show that they are a
human being I think that thingslike that should be pushed more.
(46:16):
I think that things like thatshould be pushed more and
unfortunately Zuckerberg and allthose cronies are not going to
push those types of things.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
No, because they benefit from you spending as
much time on there as possible.
Because the more time you spendon social media, the more ads
you see and the more ads.
You see the more money theymake, so they have no incentive.
This is the same problem we raninto when I was talking about
the momfluencers there is noincentive on the part of social
media companies to actually puta stop to this bad behavior
(46:48):
because it hurts their bottomline.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Yeah, exactly.
But yeah, I definitely thinkthat I would love to see more of
the models kind of doing thingslike that.
I would love to see both menand women, Because, just as well
with men, the six-pack thatthey have rub a little bit of
(47:14):
oil, they're going to becomemore defined.
Pack that they have Rub alittle bit of oil, they're going
to become more defined.
So being able to say, okay,yeah, I work out fucking eight
hours a day as a job and my absare not nearly what you're
seeing in my pictures.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Yeah, even making note of this is a photo.
I believe France has a law thatyou have to note if a photo has
been retouched, like, use an ad, which of course it has it's an
advertisement.
So, you know, I'm not quitesure if it's a great idea in
theory, but it's always justlike this little bitty thing
down at the bottom.
It's like ah, it's beenretouched, but maybe we, you
(47:53):
know, do a better job of forcingthat, enforcing that, rather on
social media.
It's like, if you are aninfluence, if you make money off
of this, if you use a filter,if you're using AI, if you're
retouching stuff, now it doesn'tprevent people from doing as
you said.
You get a little pump going andyou oil yourself up and you get
the lighting just right.
(48:13):
There's only so much you canforce people to disclose, but at
the very least, it forcespeople to do the work, as
opposed to just, you know,popping six filters on and
taking a photo, cause you knowthe filters work with videos too
.
At this point, and.
I think a lot of people don'tknow that or aren't thinking
about that that you can actuallyhave a video of you actively
(48:36):
moving around doing stuff with afilter on that makes you look
perfect, you know, pulls in yourwaist or something like that
and I think we need to startforcing people to disclose that
publicly on the video.
Like something has to be likereally obvious.
I'm not saying you can't use AIfor these things, but if you
were going to make money off ofthis video, you have to disclose
(48:58):
it.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
I think that using AI has to bebecause, like there are, ai is
getting better.
You know it's you.
(49:21):
You see ai pictures from like ayear ago, even where you would
see somebody with like threenostrils, or you know they would
have one short arm, or you know, like something obvious yeah,
and now you have to like,especially for people,
especially if it's done withlike a good program.
You have to look yeah, yeah, youreally, I mean nowadays, yeah,
you really have to look, and thething is, is that I mean we're
(49:45):
talking, you know, a yearbetween then and now?
The super obvious to the youhave to look, give it another
year, it's gonna be next toimpossible yeah and so I I
definitely think that ai isdefinitely going to need to have
its own little thing yeah butwith all that being said, where
(50:10):
would you put this on our scaleof toxicity?
would you say that this is agreen potato, shave it off and
you'll be fine, but or would yousay that this is a death cap
mushroom where 50, 50 shotgetting killed, or antifreeze
where it's a delightful lastmeal?
Speaker 2 (50:30):
I will say that social media is a death cap
mushroom, because obviously wedidn't talk about here, because
we are the toxic cooking show.
We don't talk about good things, we only talk about the shitty
ones.
Social media can be used forgood, and social media is used
for good in many different cases.
(50:52):
I have seen so.
I have, like family and friendsin Western North Carolina, some
of whom were heavily affectedby Hurricane Helene, and I've
seen a lot of people posting andcontinuing to post stuff about
that, like getting resources out.
I mean some of them.
This was not somebody that Iknew well, but she lost her
(51:12):
house in the hurricane.
Like when the flooding happened, she lost everything and people
were helping you happened, shelost everything and people were
helping, you know, get her stuff.
There were others who were morefortunate but still like didn't
have running water for a monthand they were using social media
to get resources out to othersand to find resources to say,
(51:32):
okay, how do we get the stuffthat we need and how do we get
stuff to people?
You know we have what we need.
How do we get the stuff that weneed and how do we get stuff to
people?
We have what we need.
How do we continue to helpothers?
We see it used around the worldfor people sharing information.
That's why it often gets cut.
When there are social unrest.
That's happening because peoplewill share information about
hey, there's a protest here, heythere's this that's happening,
(51:53):
hey there's that.
So it can be very good, but itcan also be really, really,
really bad, and I think on adaily basis we see a lot of that
bad, like in your just ownpersonal scrolling.
Or it had been tinkered withwith AI and they're presenting
something that's just it's nottrue.
Or they're simply presentingit's like here's my happy,
(52:24):
wonderful life of me and myhusband and my two kids and it's
perfect.
Yeah, you guys scream at eachother every night before you go
to bed.
I just don't see that partbecause you're not posting it.
I just see the cute familyphotos and a couple of years.
All of a sudden, you're goingto change your name to your
first name and your middle nameand you're going to change your
profile photo and I'm going tohave to do a deep dive and be
like, oop, when did the divorcehappen?
So, yeah, I would say Death CatMushroom.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
I would agree with you 100% that, yes, there are
good things that come out ofsocial media, everything that
you kind of just said, thingsthat come out of social media,
everything that you kind of justsaid.
I think that also, social mediacan be used as a healthy thing,
because one of the things thatdoes happen to a lot of people
is that they feel accepted.
(53:10):
They see that other people aregoing through the same type of
struggles that they're goingthrough.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
Yep, you can find other people who are going
through the same thing.
You can connect with goingthrough Yep.
You can find other people whoare going through the same thing
.
You can connect with people inyour area if you've just moved,
if you have a specific hobbysocial media is a great way to
be like, hey, can I come too?
And people are like yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
But unfortunately, I think that the shit that we were
talking about today is mostlywhat's getting pushed.
Speaker 2 (53:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:39):
But yeah, I think that social media, if it was
used in a positive way, it couldbe very positive Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
And so, with that being said, you should follow us
on all of our social media.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Thank you so much for listening.
Definitely should follow us onour social media.
Thank you so much for listening.
Definitely should follow us onour social media.
We don't have anything toxic.
No filters here.
Nope, we are on X, we are onTikTok.
We are on Facebook.
We are on Instagram.
Did I forget anything?
Speaker 2 (54:13):
There are five of them Threads.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
And we are on thread, so please feel free to follow
us and if you have any thingthat you want to add, please
feel free to write us at toxic,at awesome life skillscom, and
please rate and leave a commenton our, on our page.
(54:36):
Kind of getting the message outthere.
So thank you so much forlistening.
I've been Christopher Patchett,lcsw.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
And I've been Lindsay McLean.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
Bye, thank you.
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