Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people intotheir simplest ingredients.
I'm your host for this week,lindsay McLean, and with me is
my fantastic co-host.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Christopher Patchett, LCSW.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I'm going to start us off by describing a person that
, unfortunately, we all have inour lives.
In fact, you may have severalof these people in your lives.
You may have several of thesepeople in your lives.
This is the person whoeverything sucks.
There is no silver lining inthe cloud.
(00:51):
It's lead and arsenic.
You mentioned something good.
They find the bad in it, orthey're always ready to point
out any failings that you mighthave in your plan.
You know who I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Okay, I'm curious where this is going, because,
yeah, well, I do know peoplelike that and I've been there
before.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, but in your daily life you've met this
person, yes, multiple times.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's also the second flavorof this, which is what I found
(01:41):
on the internet was sometimesbeing called a one-downer, and I
think that is the best nameever.
Into work or you're justhanging out, you know?
You mentioned like oh yeah, Iwas up really late last night
working.
I didn't get to sleep until 3am and instantly they've got to
hop on that train like oh, Iknow, yeah, I didn't get to
sleep until like 4 30.
This, this is not theshitlympics, calm down.
(02:01):
This is the person whoeverything is.
They've always got to be worsethan you.
That's a one down there and Ithought that was a.
We need to bring that out upand more.
I want to see this word usedmore.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I'm curious where this is going, because my mind
is going straight to depression.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
So close.
We are talking about negativitytoday and negative people,
which, obviously, if you aredepressed, you're probably going
to be pretty negative, but Ithink that there are a lot of
people who are simply justnegative people, like really,
really negative people, but arenot depressed.
(02:46):
Would you agree with that?
You look suspicious.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I am suspicious.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So and I'm very specifically not using the names
that are like really common forthis You'll hear about people
being called a negative Nancy, aDebbie Downer, and when you
look those up because I wantedto see where these names came
from, and there are definitelysome articles like stop using
women's names for this, andnormally I'm all about that shit
(03:14):
, but in this very specific caseI do want to say the women's
names being attached to it isnot necessarily meant to be a
negative thing against women.
Debbie Downer actually comesfrom an SNL sketch from 2004.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I could have sworn that that's been around a lot
longer than that.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
A lot of people say that.
So the idea of it somebodybeing a Downer has been around
for a while, but Debbie Downerwas a character who was created
for the sketch in 2004 by awoman, so that's where that term
comes from.
The negative Nancy, negativeNellie, negative Ned.
(03:55):
So see, we do have a man's namein there, if you want to focus
in on that one, that one's beenaround for quite some time and
the Nellie in this is notreferencing necessarily the
woman's name, nelly it comesfrom like horses.
You know, he's like whoa nelly.
If you have a nervous nelly,that is a horse.
That's like I don't know.
(04:15):
I don't trust this shit, likemost horses do.
Despite being very largeanimals, they're always like I
don't know man, I don't like it,and so that one has been around
since like the 1920s.
So okay the.
The use of women's names thereis not necessarily intentional,
so but I still think it's maybea better idea to not not quite
(04:39):
go down that the the negativenancy thing.
I don't know.
It's not meant to be negativeagainst women, but you can
either say like a one downer, orI've also heard people talk
about Eeyore syndrome.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
See, exactly like that.
But going back to my main pointhere is that there are a lot of
negative people in the world,without it being necessarily a
sign of depression You're like.
Well then, how are there somany negative people?
Humans are actually reallyhardwired to focus on the
(05:17):
negative, and there's what'scalled the negativity bias,
which I'm sure you know allabout.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Bias of five.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
For every positive thought we have, we have four
negative thoughts yep, and it'stheorized that this probably
developed to keep us safe, whichdoes make sense.
If you're living in a reallydangerous world, you're a little
caveman.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Remembering all the bad things that happened and
focusing in on those is probablya good way to stay alive I I
kind of as far as, likeevolution wise goes, like we we
had to think, like negative wehad to if, like, if we saw a
bear running towards us, wecouldn't be like, oh, here's a
bear who wants this maybe thisone's going to be okay.
(06:00):
No, we couldn't sit in ourcaves and hear the branch
snapping outside and be like, oh, it's probably just a wind.
It's fine yeah it's going to befine.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, no, it makes full sense why we developed this
way, but the problem is that wehave kept that up until the
modern age, like where we arenow.
And that makes sense too,because you think, well, not
that long ago, and there's stillplenty of places in the world
where you do have to be veryvigilant.
There's a lot out there thatcan kill you, and so having that
(06:35):
instinct to kind of remember isvery important.
But for many of us sitting hereat our little computer jobs in
2025, things can go bad.
I mean, as I'm sure you knowtoo, they know that if you get a
compliment and insult in oneday, you're more likely to focus
(06:55):
on the insult, like that's theone that you're going to
remember.
If you are presented with a listof traits about someone, the
negative ones will have a largereffect on how you perceive that
person.
So you can have like a whole 20traits.
This person is this and this,and this and this and this and
you're going.
Your mind focuses in on thosenegative ones and gives those
(07:20):
more weight than the positive.
Even if there are fewer of them, you give those a lot more
weight.
It has an effect on voting.
I know you're shocked to hearthis.
You are more motivated bynegative the info than positive,
and you are more motivated tovote against a candidate because
(07:41):
of negative information thanfor a candidate because of
positive information.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I'll buy that.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
I'd buy that too.
Looking at our currentpolitical situation, I 100% buy
it.
I think it was something likeoh my God, how have we gotten
here this?
As soon as I read that I waslike, oh yeah, yeah, that checks
out.
We know that bad news sellsmore than good.
Again, look at the internet.
(08:08):
This keeps being brought up.
People are like I don'tunderstand.
It's like it's right here.
We have studies that prove it,scientific studies made by
doctors who got their degreesnot from TikTok.
We use the good stuff here onthe toxic cooking show.
The other fun one I found onhere was that we underestimate
(08:31):
how frequently good thingshappen to us.
You're more likely to remembera negative thing, and I debated
if I wanted to ask you at thevery beginning of this you know,
tell me about your last, youknow encounter with somebody,
because typically, apparently,what people will do is that they
will.
There'll be like a negativething.
They're more likely to tell youa negative one, and I couldn't
(08:52):
decide if that was going tohappen with you or because
you're an excessively positiveperson.
Sometimes you were going totell me something good and then
you're going to ruin my example.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
The last encounter that I had with somebody was
probably with you.
That's when we recorded anepisode earlier and you're
fucking short.
I mean that's a huge, fuckingnegative.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Hey, I'm going to take all of your pots and pans
and put them on the bottom shelfjust for that.
Have fun getting them.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Fucking short people.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
You're just jealous of all of the space I have.
When I sit on an airplane seat,my knees don't touch the seat
in front of me.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I hate you.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
They never have, even in the smallest, tightest
airplane.
I got space.
See, it's all about finding thepositives.
So, trust me, there were a lotmore scientific studies that
have been done on this.
There's actually been a lot ofwork on the negativity bias,
(10:00):
which I find fascinating.
We've done a lot of work on it,but people don't actually know
about it, and so we're stillcircling around being like why
is this happening?
Why are people voting this way?
Why are people writing theseheadlines?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
We know why even though, even though things have
changed and and things like that, like I, I do think that having
having to remember likenegative things is still a
necessary type thing, even intoday's world.
I I think that there's abalance between the two.
(10:39):
But I mean, yeah, you know, Itell people about all the time
that I did an experiment onetime when I was living in New
York City, I drove an hour intowork and drove an hour home and
what I would do is I, for a week, I would listen to like the
(11:01):
radio, like news.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Oh God.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
And it was basically breaking down to this 45 minutes
of, you know, bad shithappening in the world, five
minutes of sports, five minutesof weather, five minutes of a
feel good story.
At the end, the world's largestcookie was just bait and shit
like that.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, that makes up for everything else that
happened.
Half the world is on fire, butwe just said a new Guinness Book
of World Records for our cookie.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
So if you're listening to non-stop 75%, the
world is going to shit, thenyeah, it's going to look pretty
fucking negative it is.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
It definitely is, and I feel for people who get kind
of caught up in this which willI'm sure we'll discuss more of
this in a bit because it is it'smore than just annoying when
you have somebody who's like, ohmy god the world, it's terrible
.
It's that, like it has somereally negative effects on your
health as well.
If you are somebody whonegative and this is why I'm
(12:02):
also making the distinctionbetween like being negative and
being depressed, because beingdepressed like that requires you
know, pretty, you should seesomebody, you should talk to
somebody, not through betterhelp, but go talk to somebody.
Being a negative person isprobably something that you're a
little bit more in control of,and, yes, we are hardwired to
(12:25):
think that way, but thereactually are studies that have
shown that you can rewire yourbrain to focus more on either
the negative or the positive.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Cognitive behavioral therapy.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yep, right there.
See, there's ways out of it.
Because if you were somebodywho's just sitting there like,
stewing in this negativity andalways being that person again,
not just no, I heard all thisnegative stuff on the news and
now I'm really worried.
But like you're the person whojust sees bad in everything,
you're the person who's alwaysyou know this sucks and that
(13:01):
sucks.
And you're French, for lack ofa better word.
It's true, it's so true, oh myGod, the French.
But being negative or angry canlead, of course, to fantastic
things like high blood pressure.
Angry can lead, of course, tofantastic things like high blood
(13:24):
pressure, stress, anxiety.
And we know that stress, itabsolutely like, fucks up your
hormones, your immune system,your brain.
It can mess with your heart,your digestive system, like.
Everything can get messed upbecause of stress.
And being negative causes youstress.
So it's not a direct, you know.
Oh, because you're negative,you know you're going to die of
a heart attack.
(13:44):
No, but, but, but but.
Study number one found thatpeople who were highly cynical
later in life had a greater riskof dementia.
Study number two found that themost cynical patients were the
most likely to have heartdisease.
And my favorite study, which Iwill explain, was done in
(14:10):
Chinese Americans who believedin Chinese astrology, and they
looked at those who hadbasically like bad combos.
So in Chinese astrology,certain years are associated
with certain diseases.
So if the year ends in likethis number, this number, you're
more likely to get tumors.
If it ends in this whatevernumber, you're more likely to
(14:32):
have lung problems or kidneyproblems or whatever.
And so they looked at peoplewho, again, believed in Chinese
astrology and things matched up.
So, for instance, you were bornin the year that was most
likely to have kidney problemsand you have kidney problems.
And they found that, whencompared with people who did not
(14:53):
believe in Chinese astrology,who also met those criteria, the
people who believed in it diedearlier, like 1.3 to 4.9 years
earlier, which I foundfascinating.
And you may be looking andyou're like what does this have
to do with negativity?
And they think that the peoplewho believed in it, because they
(15:14):
were primed to believe, like oh, because I'm born in a year
that ends in one, I'm morelikely to have bronchitis.
And then you get bronchitis.
You're like, well, that's that,and you don't do anything to
treat it, you don't dopreventative measures, like you
may just be like I'm going todie of lung cancer anyway.
So let me just smoke a six packa day, not six pack.
(15:39):
I mean for the hardcore smokers,I guess let me smoke six packs
of cigarettes a day.
That that was.
That was probably what washappening, so those people were
being more negative about it andthus they were more likely when
it happened they were like,yeah, bye world.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
So there's two things that kind of come to mind is
one I I kind of think of likeokay, so self-fulfilling
prophecy where if I have a jobinterview tomorrow and I say
there is no way in hell that I'mgoing to get this job, have a
(16:21):
job interview tomorrow and I saythere is no way in hell that
I'm going to get this job, thenI am going to not going to study
the company's mission, I'm notgoing to, you know, review, like
the, the different questionsthat they might ask.
And then the next day I wake upand my interview is at 10.
(16:42):
Well, I'm gonna sleep in untileight o'clock because fuck it,
I'm not gonna have to get toshop.
Anyhow, I'm not gonna do my hairup what hair?
I'm not gonna do my makeup, soso I go in.
I'm not gonna iron out my shirtand I'm gonna go in looking
like shit, and when they'reasking me questions, I'm just
like well.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
So of course I'm not going to get the job, because I
did everything possible not toget the job.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yep, yep, this is exactly that.
I think the two are likeheavily related.
And I think, even looking backat the other two studies where
it's like people who were reallycynical were more likely to
have dementia or heart disease,yeah, if you're really cynical
and you're hating on everybodyall the time, you may fulfill
that prophecy of like, oh,everything's terrible,
everything's bad.
(17:36):
I don't understand, I don'tknow, I don't trust you.
Yeah, now you've conditionedyour brain to be like I don't
know what's going on.
Whoopsies, you've like stressedyour heart out and your heart's
like bye, and then you're likesee, it happened.
No, you did this to yourself.
(18:03):
Yeah, so in your last little funbit of why negative people are
horrible people to be around, isthat this has a really big
effect on your job and yourfamily life, which I know is
shocking.
Nobody expected that.
But yeah, nobody likes workingwith or hanging out with
somebody who's really negativeall the time.
It disrupts, like if you'reworking in an office, it
(18:23):
disrupts the team dynamics andoffice culture.
There are all these articles onLinkedIn about this which I'm
not citing here because LinkedInis a special, special place.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
There's one more thing, and please tell me that
you've read this Man's Searchfor Meaning.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
No, I have not.
Who's it by?
Oh?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
my God, I'm going to have to talk to your parents.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Man's Search for Meaning.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
A Man's Search for Meaning Victor Finkel.
Yeah, you're looking up victore frankel yeah, so basically
what it is it's, it's a guy whowent through, uh, the holocaust
53 euros on amazon.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
What?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
should only be like I , I, oh, my god.
I've bought that book so manytimes.
I fucking love it.
I say that I love it as I'mgonna tell you, like the sad,
like I'm sure that one is beinglike shipped from the us.
That's the issue but it's, it'sbasically it's from a point of
view this guy, viktor Frankl.
(19:42):
He was a psychologist prior toWorld War II and once World War
II happened, the concentrationcamps ended up happening.
He was brought into one of theconcentration camps.
So he's looking at theconcentration camps through the
(20:03):
eyes of a psychologist and oneof the things that he had
mentioned was that he saw a lotof you know, like a huge
difference between like positivethinking and negative thinking.
So one of the one of theexamples I said was that there
(20:24):
was a guy in the concentrationcamp who had a, had a had a
dream that they were going to besaved on this certain date and
that the allies were going tocome in, that they were going to
come in and shut down theconcentration camp and save all
these men, women and children.
(20:44):
So he survived and he was sick,and he survived up until that
day and when nothing happened,the next day he ended up passing
away.
So it was basically this guywas living purely off of hope I
would believe it.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I mean, I, I found, I found I can get it for 11 euros
, so I will get it and read it,I promise get it, read it and
and, like I said, I'm gonna havea stern talk with your parents.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Mom, I know you listen to this get ready.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
How could you not have given me this book to read?
Horrible, but it is true.
I mean, that makes perfectsense to me that you, you find
this little bit of hope and youcling on to it and you're like,
yes, and then you know, whenpositive thing doesn't happen,
it's like, well, why?
Why keep?
And the same thing inversely,that if you're just focused on
(21:46):
the negative, like you said, theconfirmation bias that like,
then it happens.
Sorry, not confirmation bias,the self-fulfilling prophecy
that like, then now thishorrible thing happens to you.
And I also think that whenyou're so focused on being
negative, or when you allowyourself to just stick to the
negative, you don't changeanything, and that is bad.
(22:09):
I'm going to use the French asan example.
I said the French are terribleabout this.
And, oh my God, look, there aresome stereotypes that are
completely false.
There are some stereotypes thathave a little grain of truth to
them.
You're like, yeah, I see wherethis came from.
And then there are somestereotypes that are completely
false.
There are some stereotypes thathave, like, a little grain of
truth to them.
You're like, yeah, I see wherethis came from.
And then there are some thatyou're like, oh no, this is not
a stereotype, this is a fact.
The French are negative,negative people.
(22:32):
Oh my God, if you are evertalking to somebody who's French
, very quickly the conversationwill turn to complaining.
And don't get me wrong, I lovea good bitch session.
I love leaving a 15-minutevoice message rant to my best
friend, but oftentimes with that, you know, there may be kind of
(22:54):
an element of me like workingthrough it and I'm going to do
something, or maybe I'mspecifically like complaining to
them and I want their help withit.
But I have noticed that withthe French, with basically no
exception, with very fewexceptions the only exceptions I
found are the ones who werelike I don't want to be here.
They will, they'll get intothis pattern where they will
(23:16):
just complain Everything is bad,my job is bad, my boss is bad,
my apartment is bad, andeventually you're like well, do
you want to do something aboutit?
Like you've been complainingabout this for a year.
You know, have you?
Have you talked to your boss?
No, no, no, no, it won't do anygood.
(23:36):
Okay, have you thought aboutlooking for another job?
No, there are no other jobs.
There's got to be something.
I mean, the Olympics were afantastic example of this.
So I live not far outside ofParis.
We of this.
So I live not far outside ofParis.
We had the Olympics here lastsummer, 2024.
(24:00):
And every Parisian, oh my God,they were complaining from like
dawn until dusk about howeverything was going to go wrong
.
The Metro isn't going to work,the this isn't going to work,
this is going to fail, that'snot going to work, this is going
to be awful.
I mean, if you listen to them,you would have been.
I would have understood if youwere like, yeah, there's
definitely going to be like 16terrorist attacks on the
(24:22):
Olympics, like during openingnight or something, and then the
entire city is just going to,you know, get hit by a nuclear
bomb and we're all going to die.
Like that's how dire it was.
And then, when that didn'thappen, when things actually
went really really well, justnothing, nothing was said.
Nobody ever came back and werelike, oh yeah, I thought it was
(24:43):
gonna be bad, but actually itwasn't.
That turned out really well.
No, they just they carried onwith their lives as if nothing
had happened.
But we spent months bitchingabout this and it means that
they don't do anything to changeit.
In this case, they complain,they complain, they complain,
but they're not willing to makeany change, even a small change
(25:05):
that would make a difference.
They instead choose to sitthere in their negativity not
depression, just negative.
Everything sucks, you suck, theweather sucks, dog sucks, just
all sucks.
Are you going to change it?
No, I'm just going to sit hereand complain.
I'm like right, that's whyyou're still at a job that you
(25:25):
don't like, living in anapartment that you don't like,
or, who knows, maybe if youactually turned around and
looked at it in a different way,you would realize that it's not
that bad.
You actually have somethingthat's nice.
You'll find the good in it.
Like, yeah, I have an apartmentNot everyone has one of those.
It has a balcony.
(25:45):
I'm really close to a Metroline, and this is this is what
they'll do if you point that out.
They're like, but it's not themetro line what my work is
located on.
Like, can you be happy foryourself for once?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
No, there's an experiment that I love doing
with people.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Ooh.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
And I love doing this with people and I, I, I love
doing this with people.
It's, uh, how often are youwrong?
And so, like, every time that Ihear somebody having this whole
thing of I know that this isgoing to happen, I know this is
going to happen, I know this isgoing to happen, I know this is
going to happen, I say, okay,between now and the next time
that we uh get together, I wantyou to, every time you say the
(26:32):
words I know that this is goingto happen, keep a mental tab of
it, uh, and then, when thesituation actually happens, keep
a tab of how often you're rightcompared to how often you're
wrong.
The most I've ever heard was avery weak as 20% right, and that
was one of these things wherehe even said that, oh, I'm right
(26:55):
20% of the times.
I was like, were you, let'slook, let's look at the time.
I want to see the numbers andand so he would tell me you know
the the things that that he wasright about, and I was like,
was that right or was that kindof close?
And I'm kind of close, I'm like, yeah, that that wasn't, that
(27:18):
wasn't right, that you were, youwere, uh, you know, 30% right
on that one.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
So yeah, that doesn't count.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
So that doesn't count as as you being right.
So I would say, for the mostpart, it's 10% to 15%, okay, but
the thing is that and I tellpeople all the time that it's
10% to 15% of being right, andin that 10% to 15% of being
(27:47):
right, that whole time that youare going into this, I know
that's it's going to happenYou're putting a hundred percent
of your emotions into it.
You know, if I were to say thatI know this girl that I'm going
to ask out, she's going to sayno, I'm going to feel rejected,
I'm going to feel sad, I'm goingto feel alone and I haven't
(28:09):
even asked her out.
And I'm creating all theseemotions and I say to people
like other than the weather whenwould you put 100% of your
trust and feelings intosomething that you're only 10%?
Right, when you say it likethat, your trust and feelings
(28:29):
into something that you're only?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
10%.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
right, If your job, when you say it like that you
know, if your job paid you for10% of your work, would you stay
at that job?
If your significant other wasloyal to you, 10% of the time
would you stay with that person,but yet you're going to put a
hundred percent of your emotionsinto a 10% chance of being
(28:52):
right.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I think that's a fantastic way to look at it,
because when you break it downlike that like yeah, would you
stay with somebody who's onlylawyer with you 10% of the time
no one in their right mind isgoing to be like oh yeah, that's
totally acceptable, that's agood thing.
Would you hire a consultant whoonly gave good advice 10% of
the time?
I wouldn't.
(29:16):
I don't think anybody wouldLike.
You know that.
But yeah, we get so called upin this idea of like, oh, but
that one time I was right, andso, therefore, and then you're
already focused in, you'realready just in the depths of
your misery, like the French,and everything sucks and
everything is terrible andthere's no possible way to
(29:36):
change it, even though it's notthis idea bad, but you have only
focused on that little bittynegative part.
You're like, yeah, whole citygone, we're all going to die.
I'm like did you though?
No, you didn't die.
(29:58):
You actually went down south forvacation during the Olympics.
You're fine, but you bitchedabout it the whole time and I
had to listen to it.
But you bitched about it thewhole time and I had to listen
to it.
You will hear people, likeforeigners who live here,
mention this about the French.
They're just really, reallynegative.
(30:21):
See, we all see it, we all knowthis.
So, when it comes to negativity, negative thoughts, focusing on
(30:51):
negative stuff not to put you,christopher Patchett, lcsw, on
the spot but what are somesuggestions that you might have
for people who are feeling verynegative or maybe have realized
that they're being supernegative or worried that they're
focusing too much on negativestuff?
What would be your suggestions?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
I, I seek therapy.
You know, if you are down tothat point where everything that
there is no positive outcome,uh, or there is no positive, uh,
anything, then you're seeing avery distorted way of life and
that's, you know, a therapist isthat's kind of one of the
(31:22):
things is being able to.
You know, just as you were kindof saying earlier that there is
a way to change that mindset,just as you were kind of saying
earlier that there is a way tochange that mindset, it's
basically, and one of the thingsI do specialize in is cognitive
behavioral therapy, which isthe whole idea of rewiring your
mind to be able to see.
And I always say, like, as faras cognitive behavioral therapy,
(31:47):
it's not positive thinking, youknow, it's realistic thinking,
and there is a differencebetween positive thinking,
negative thinking and realisticthinking.
Positive thinking is constantlygoing around saying that
everything is going to work out,everything is going to be
beautiful, blah, blah, blah.
And just as well as alwaysthinking negative, always
(32:12):
thinking positive, is going tocreate a lot of problems in life
.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
You know, we know that we live in a world where,
oh God, and we've talkedabout've talked about this we're
like advertisements onInstagram and and Facebook, and
you see, well, yeah, there's noway that somebody is going to
try to reap money off of peoplewho are looking for a job in
(32:46):
their last desperate attempt.
There's no way in how that, ifyou're constantly thinking
positive, you're not looking forthe warning signs, you're not
looking for the things that itcould be a scam, you're always
thinking positive about otherpeople, you're going to end up
(33:06):
being with other people that areharmful and toxic, because if
you're constantly looking at, ohwell, this person, they're with
me and they must love me.
So this must have been like aslip up or something like that,
and it's just like you don'twant to be overly positive, but,
again, you don't want to beoverly negative.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
That is very true.
Being too positive, that tooconfident, this is an upcoming
episode.
How much confidence, this istoo much confidence, but it can
absolutely like turn against you, just the same way.
As you know, we said that beingnegative to a certain extent,
you have to, you have to focuson the negative sometimes
(33:50):
because otherwise you're notgoing to see the problem.
Same thing for being toopositive, and so.
I have run into some stuff whenI was looking for this.
That was the like just thinkpositive, fake it till you make
it Everything's great.
And you're like oh, okay, thependulum has swung way too far
back in the opposite directionand this poor person is going to
(34:12):
run into these if the sameproblems, if they've been
thinking super negatively andnow they're like I must go
positive, that's going to endreally badly for them and then
they're going to go right backto being negative Cause they're
like see, I tried to be positiveand I got scammed.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
And, and you know I it's funny, I actually just
spoke to somebody about this andand they were saying about,
like cause, kind of behavioraltherapy, it, it looks at the
thoughts, it looks at like howthe thoughts affected our
emotions, and so somebody hadasked me there.
He said I, I I was trying to,you know, do the things that
(34:50):
that I need to do as far as like, looking at the thoughts and I
couldn't find any distortionsthat go with it and it's just,
it still makes me feel upset.
I'm like you know that's thething that you know it's not
again, you know it's notpositive thinking, because
you're not trying to find, youknow, something positive out of
(35:13):
this.
You're not trying to look at ormake a situation into a
positive that sometimes thingsjust are shit.
And that's okay, yeah, and it'sokay, yeah, and it's okay, you
know, like it's not always goingto be good in life, but at the
same time is, you know, notnearly as bad as what we make it
out to be wise words, dad, wisewords.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
So where do you see us going from here for the
negative Neds, debbie Downers,one Downers, eeyore, syndromes
of the world.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
I would say that getting therapy as a whole, even
if it is just, you know, quote,unquote their personality.
I love the saying if you tell alie enough times, it becomes
the truth.
So if you are constantly sayingthat the world is shit, that
(36:13):
the world is horrible, thatnothing ever goes right in life,
yeah, you might be saying thatjust kind of like as a general
statement now, but if you'resaying that day after day after
day, it's going to affect youand it's going to cause
depression, because who wants tolive in a world that is
absolute bullshit.
So I would say, if you arehaving these constant thoughts,
(36:39):
see a therapist.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
I would agree with that that therapy is usually the
answer for many of the thingswe talk about here.
I do also think that there's acertain level within this that
doesn't necessarily requiretherapy.
You would benefit from therapy,you would benefit from therapy,
(37:02):
but I think there are a lot ofpeople who could simply, with a
couple of tools maybe the rightbook or something, kind of catch
themselves before they get toofar into the swirling pool of
like everything sucks and I hatelife, and kind of pull yourself
back out and be like okay, Imean even stuff as little as I
remember, one time when I wasworking at camp, I had a group
of girls who I'm not sure whatwas going on with this group.
(37:24):
They were not having a goodtime and it was not their fault,
and we were headed down to thepetting zoo to clean up because
that was our chore for the day,and one of my kids, who was
usually like a happy little kid,was just not having fun.
These girls were like nine, 10,11.
And I told her what I had beentold, which was basically you
(37:47):
know, smile and you forceyourself to smile and that will
make you feel better.
Cause, she asked, she was likewhy are?
Why are you in a good mood?
And I was like well, cause, Ican't be mad, I'm in charge of
you guys, and that's not fair.
You haven't done anything thatyou know deserves my anger, so I
choose to do this.
And this is what I was told shewas like oh, a little bit later
(38:10):
I see this child like scoopinggoat poop, with this maniacal
smile on her face.
And she did come to meafterwards and she was like
you're right, that does make mefeel better.
And I was like, yeah, you cantrick your brain into stuff.
Now that only works to acertain level, after which
therapy.
But sometimes just tryingsomething like that can can get
(38:35):
you out, can stop it before itgets really bad, and maybe in
conjunction with something else.
But yeah, she was a fantasticlittle kid.
I hope she's doing well in life.
Where then would you put the,the one downers of the world, on
our scale of toxicity?
Are they a green potato whomake you sick if you eat it but
(38:59):
just scrape off that bit andyou're probably okay?
Are they a deathcap mushroom,50-50 chance of death or coma
even when cooked?
Or are they a delicious butdeadly last snack, especially
when mixed in with some limejello antifreeze?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I would say that this low-grade death cap, just
because of the fact that mostpeople are, are that's just part
of their personality, that theyare constantly having these
negative like always having tolook at things through a
negative scope, and it's justlike and there's going to be
(39:54):
some people who are just really,really involved into it and
really wrapped up into it, andthat can lead to severe mental
health issues.
So I think that that is goingto be kind of a.
(40:18):
I would say that, yeah, it'snot going to be that often that
people kind of go into thatmental health issue type thing,
but there's it's very, veryquickly can progress that way.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
I'm not going to lie.
I was in writing this week'sepisode, I wanted to find
something that was a greenpotato, because we've had a lot
of antifreeze recently and I waslike I need to, like, bring the
temperature down and talk aboutsome toxic, but not too toxic
stuff.
And I picked this and I startedwriting it.
I was like, oh dang, there'ssome bad things in here Again.
(40:52):
See the fact that it can createmajor health issues if you're
just a really negative person, areally negative person and, as
you said, there's the mentalhealth aspect of that, which is,
if you start down this path, itmay at first just be like oh,
you know, bob's a littlenegative, but okay.
And then 10, 15 years later,you're full on depression,
(41:14):
pessimist about everything,hating life, like unable to
function, rare for sure, but itis possible.
I think I'm still.
I'm going to give it threegreen potatoes.
In a desperate attempt to holdon to what I wanted in the face
(41:35):
of the evidence that I justpresented, Just because I think
that for many people again thiskind of like if you're, you know
, the Debbie Downer or the onedowner of the world there is
probably a lot that you could doon your own to reverse that, to
kind of stop being this type ofperson, without having to go to
(41:58):
a lot of therapy or withouthaving to spend a lot of time
and effort completely changinghow you think and how you do
things.
I think for many people just acouple of small fixes in their
life, if made and kept in place,would do a lot.
Because, again, we all like tocomplain, it's always good to
get out that rant session, butknowing when to stop Fucking
(42:19):
short people.
Fucking bald people Damn, butit's knowing when to stop and be
like okay, this is notproductive anymore, I need to go
get leg lengthening surgery andmove on with my life.
Nah, I'll just wear heels.
Actually I won't, I'd break myankle.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
I'd be really short in a wheelchair.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
so if you know any uh , super negative people or if
you have any other fantasticnames for negative people, feel
free to let us know.
You can write to us at toxic,at awesome life skillscom.
You can also find us onFacebook, on Instagram and on
(43:08):
blue sky you can write to usthere, very active on.
I'm active on all of those Idon't know what you're talking
about every day Posting memes.
That's me.
Yep, shut up.
Social media is hard.
Okay, I don't want to hear it.
(43:30):
It's true.
It's true, I took this onmyself.
Anyway, that's been the toxiccooking show this week.
We'll see you guys next week.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Bye, bye.
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people intotheir simplest ingredients.
I'm your host for this week,lindsay McLean, and with me is
my fantastic co-host.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Christopher Patchett, LCSW.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I'm going to start us off by describing a person that
, unfortunately, we all have inour lives.
In fact, you may have severalof these people in your lives.
You may have several of thesepeople in your lives.
This is the person whoeverything sucks.
There is no silver lining inthe cloud.
(00:51):
It's lead and arsenic.
You mentioned something good.
They find the bad in it, orthey're always ready to point
out any failings that you mighthave in your plan.
You know who I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Okay, I'm curious where this is going, because,
yeah, well, I do know peoplelike that and I've been there
before.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, but in your daily life you've met this
person, yes, multiple times.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's also the second flavorof this, which is what I found
(01:41):
on the internet was sometimesbeing called a one-downer, and I
think that is the best nameever.
Into work or you're justhanging out, you know?
You mentioned like oh yeah, Iwas up really late last night
working.
I didn't get to sleep until 3am and instantly they've got to
hop on that train like oh, Iknow, yeah, I didn't get to
sleep until like 4 30.
This, this is not theshitlympics, calm down.
(02:01):
This is the person whoeverything is.
They've always got to be worsethan you.
That's a one down there and Ithought that was a.
We need to bring that out upand more.
I want to see this word usedmore.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I'm curious where this is going, because my mind
is going straight to depression.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
So close.
We are talking about negativitytoday and negative people,
which, obviously, if you aredepressed, you're probably going
to be pretty negative, but Ithink that there are a lot of
people who are simply justnegative people, like really,
really negative people, but arenot depressed.
(02:46):
Would you agree with that?
You look suspicious.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I am suspicious.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So and I'm very specifically not using the names
that are like really common forthis You'll hear about people
being called a negative Nancy, aDebbie Downer, and when you
look those up because I wantedto see where these names came
from, and there are definitelysome articles like stop using
women's names for this, andnormally I'm all about that shit
(03:14):
, but in this very specific caseI do want to say the women's
names being attached to it isnot necessarily meant to be a
negative thing against women.
Debbie Downer actually comesfrom an SNL sketch from 2004.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I could have sworn that that's been around a lot
longer than that.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
A lot of people say that.
So the idea of it somebodybeing a Downer has been around
for a while, but Debbie Downerwas a character who was created
for the sketch in 2004 by awoman, so that's where that term
comes from.
The negative Nancy, negativeNellie, negative Ned.
(03:55):
So see, we do have a man's namein there, if you want to focus
in on that one, that one's beenaround for quite some time and
the Nellie in this is notreferencing necessarily the
woman's name, nelly it comesfrom like horses.
You know, he's like whoa nelly.
If you have a nervous nelly,that is a horse.
That's like I don't know.
(04:15):
I don't trust this shit, likemost horses do.
Despite being very largeanimals, they're always like I
don't know man, I don't like it,and so that one has been around
since like the 1920s.
So okay the.
The use of women's names thereis not necessarily intentional,
so but I still think it's maybea better idea to not not quite
(04:39):
go down that the the negativenancy thing.
I don't know.
It's not meant to be negativeagainst women, but you can
either say like a one downer, orI've also heard people talk
about Eeyore syndrome.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
See, exactly like that.
But going back to my main pointhere is that there are a lot of
negative people in the world,without it being necessarily a
sign of depression You're like.
Well then, how are there somany negative people?
Humans are actually reallyhardwired to focus on the
(05:17):
negative, and there's what'scalled the negativity bias,
which I'm sure you know allabout.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Bias of five.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
For every positive thought we have, we have four
negative thoughts yep, and it'stheorized that this probably
developed to keep us safe, whichdoes make sense.
If you're living in a reallydangerous world, you're a little
caveman.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Remembering all the bad things that happened and
focusing in on those is probablya good way to stay alive I I
kind of as far as, likeevolution wise goes, like we we
had to think, like negative wehad to if, like, if we saw a
bear running towards us, wecouldn't be like, oh, here's a
bear who wants this maybe thisone's going to be okay.
(06:00):
No, we couldn't sit in ourcaves and hear the branch
snapping outside and be like, oh, it's probably just a wind.
It's fine yeah it's going to befine.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, no, it makes full sense why we developed this
way, but the problem is that wehave kept that up until the
modern age, like where we arenow.
And that makes sense too,because you think, well, not
that long ago, and there's stillplenty of places in the world
where you do have to be veryvigilant.
There's a lot out there thatcan kill you, and so having that
(06:35):
instinct to kind of remember isvery important.
But for many of us sitting hereat our little computer jobs in
2025, things can go bad.
I mean, as I'm sure you knowtoo, they know that if you get a
compliment and insult in oneday, you're more likely to focus
(06:55):
on the insult, like that's theone that you're going to
remember.
If you are presented with a listof traits about someone, the
negative ones will have a largereffect on how you perceive that
person.
So you can have like a whole 20traits.
This person is this and this,and this and this and this and
you're going.
Your mind focuses in on thosenegative ones and gives those
(07:20):
more weight than the positive.
Even if there are fewer of them, you give those a lot more
weight.
It has an effect on voting.
I know you're shocked to hearthis.
You are more motivated bynegative the info than positive,
and you are more motivated tovote against a candidate because
(07:41):
of negative information thanfor a candidate because of
positive information.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I'll buy that.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
I'd buy that too.
Looking at our currentpolitical situation, I 100% buy
it.
I think it was something likeoh my God, how have we gotten
here this?
As soon as I read that I waslike, oh yeah, yeah, that checks
out.
We know that bad news sellsmore than good.
Again, look at the internet.
(08:08):
This keeps being brought up.
People are like I don'tunderstand.
It's like it's right here.
We have studies that prove it,scientific studies made by
doctors who got their degreesnot from TikTok.
We use the good stuff here onthe toxic cooking show.
The other fun one I found onhere was that we underestimate
(08:31):
how frequently good thingshappen to us.
You're more likely to remembera negative thing, and I debated
if I wanted to ask you at thevery beginning of this you know,
tell me about your last, youknow encounter with somebody,
because typically, apparently,what people will do is that they
will.
There'll be like a negativething.
They're more likely to tell youa negative one, and I couldn't
(08:52):
decide if that was going tohappen with you or because
you're an excessively positiveperson.
Sometimes you were going totell me something good and then
you're going to ruin my example.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
The last encounter that I had with somebody was
probably with you.
That's when we recorded anepisode earlier and you're
fucking short.
I mean that's a huge, fuckingnegative.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Hey, I'm going to take all of your pots and pans
and put them on the bottom shelfjust for that.
Have fun getting them.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Fucking short people.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
You're just jealous of all of the space I have.
When I sit on an airplane seat,my knees don't touch the seat
in front of me.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I hate you.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
They never have, even in the smallest, tightest
airplane.
I got space.
See, it's all about finding thepositives.
So, trust me, there were a lotmore scientific studies that
have been done on this.
There's actually been a lot ofwork on the negativity bias,
(10:00):
which I find fascinating.
We've done a lot of work on it,but people don't actually know
about it, and so we're stillcircling around being like why
is this happening?
Why are people voting this way?
Why are people writing theseheadlines?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
We know why even though, even though things have
changed and and things like that, like I, I do think that having
having to remember likenegative things is still a
necessary type thing, even intoday's world.
I I think that there's abalance between the two.
(10:39):
But I mean, yeah, you know, Itell people about all the time
that I did an experiment onetime when I was living in New
York City, I drove an hour intowork and drove an hour home and
what I would do is I, for a week, I would listen to like the
(11:01):
radio, like news.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Oh God.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
And it was basically breaking down to this 45 minutes
of, you know, bad shithappening in the world, five
minutes of sports, five minutesof weather, five minutes of a
feel good story.
At the end, the world's largestcookie was just bait and shit
like that.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, that makes up for everything else that
happened.
Half the world is on fire, butwe just said a new Guinness Book
of World Records for our cookie.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
So if you're listening to non-stop 75%, the
world is going to shit, thenyeah, it's going to look pretty
fucking negative it is.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
It definitely is, and I feel for people who get kind
of caught up in this which willI'm sure we'll discuss more of
this in a bit because it is it'smore than just annoying when
you have somebody who's like, ohmy god the world, it's terrible
.
It's that, like it has somereally negative effects on your
health as well.
If you are somebody whonegative and this is why I'm
(12:02):
also making the distinctionbetween like being negative and
being depressed, because beingdepressed like that requires you
know, pretty, you should seesomebody, you should talk to
somebody, not through betterhelp, but go talk to somebody.
Being a negative person isprobably something that you're a
little bit more in control of,and, yes, we are hardwired to
(12:25):
think that way, but thereactually are studies that have
shown that you can rewire yourbrain to focus more on either
the negative or the positive.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Cognitive behavioral therapy.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yep, right there.
See, there's ways out of it.
Because if you were somebodywho's just sitting there like,
stewing in this negativity andalways being that person again,
not just no, I heard all thisnegative stuff on the news and
now I'm really worried.
But like you're the person whojust sees bad in everything,
you're the person who's alwaysyou know this sucks and that
(13:01):
sucks.
And you're French, for lack ofa better word.
It's true, it's so true, oh myGod, the French.
But being negative or angry canlead, of course, to fantastic
things like high blood pressure.
Angry can lead, of course, tofantastic things like high blood
(13:24):
pressure, stress, anxiety.
And we know that stress, itabsolutely like, fucks up your
hormones, your immune system,your brain.
It can mess with your heart,your digestive system, like.
Everything can get messed upbecause of stress.
And being negative causes youstress.
So it's not a direct, you know.
Oh, because you're negative,you know you're going to die of
a heart attack.
(13:44):
No, but, but, but but.
Study number one found thatpeople who were highly cynical
later in life had a greater riskof dementia.
Study number two found that themost cynical patients were the
most likely to have heartdisease.
And my favorite study, which Iwill explain, was done in
(14:10):
Chinese Americans who believedin Chinese astrology, and they
looked at those who hadbasically like bad combos.
So in Chinese astrology,certain years are associated
with certain diseases.
So if the year ends in likethis number, this number, you're
more likely to get tumors.
If it ends in this whatevernumber, you're more likely to
(14:32):
have lung problems or kidneyproblems or whatever.
And so they looked at peoplewho, again, believed in Chinese
astrology and things matched up.
So, for instance, you were bornin the year that was most
likely to have kidney problemsand you have kidney problems.
And they found that, whencompared with people who did not
(14:53):
believe in Chinese astrology,who also met those criteria, the
people who believed in it diedearlier, like 1.3 to 4.9 years
earlier, which I foundfascinating.
And you may be looking andyou're like what does this have
to do with negativity?
And they think that the peoplewho believed in it, because they
(15:14):
were primed to believe, like oh, because I'm born in a year
that ends in one, I'm morelikely to have bronchitis.
And then you get bronchitis.
You're like, well, that's that,and you don't do anything to
treat it, you don't dopreventative measures, like you
may just be like I'm going todie of lung cancer anyway.
So let me just smoke a six packa day, not six pack.
(15:39):
I mean for the hardcore smokers,I guess let me smoke six packs
of cigarettes a day.
That that was.
That was probably what washappening, so those people were
being more negative about it andthus they were more likely when
it happened they were like,yeah, bye world.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
So there's two things that kind of come to mind is
one I I kind of think of likeokay, so self-fulfilling
prophecy where if I have a jobinterview tomorrow and I say
there is no way in hell that I'mgoing to get this job, have a
(16:21):
job interview tomorrow and I saythere is no way in hell that
I'm going to get this job, thenI am going to not going to study
the company's mission, I'm notgoing to, you know, review, like
the, the different questionsthat they might ask.
And then the next day I wake upand my interview is at 10.
(16:42):
Well, I'm gonna sleep in untileight o'clock because fuck it,
I'm not gonna have to get toshop.
Anyhow, I'm not gonna do my hairup what hair?
I'm not gonna do my makeup, soso I go in.
I'm not gonna iron out my shirtand I'm gonna go in looking
like shit, and when they'reasking me questions, I'm just
like well.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
So of course I'm not going to get the job, because I
did everything possible not toget the job.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yep, yep, this is exactly that.
I think the two are likeheavily related.
And I think, even looking backat the other two studies where
it's like people who were reallycynical were more likely to
have dementia or heart disease,yeah, if you're really cynical
and you're hating on everybodyall the time, you may fulfill
that prophecy of like, oh,everything's terrible,
everything's bad.
(17:36):
I don't understand, I don'tknow, I don't trust you.
Yeah, now you've conditionedyour brain to be like I don't
know what's going on.
Whoopsies, you've like stressedyour heart out and your heart's
like bye, and then you're likesee, it happened.
No, you did this to yourself.
(18:03):
Yeah, so in your last little funbit of why negative people are
horrible people to be around, isthat this has a really big
effect on your job and yourfamily life, which I know is
shocking.
Nobody expected that.
But yeah, nobody likes workingwith or hanging out with
somebody who's really negativeall the time.
It disrupts, like if you'reworking in an office, it
(18:23):
disrupts the team dynamics andoffice culture.
There are all these articles onLinkedIn about this which I'm
not citing here because LinkedInis a special, special place.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
There's one more thing, and please tell me that
you've read this Man's Searchfor Meaning.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
No, I have not.
Who's it by?
Oh?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
my God, I'm going to have to talk to your parents.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Man's Search for Meaning.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
A Man's Search for Meaning Victor Finkel.
Yeah, you're looking up victore frankel yeah, so basically
what it is it's, it's a guy whowent through, uh, the holocaust
53 euros on amazon.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
What?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
should only be like I , I, oh, my god.
I've bought that book so manytimes.
I fucking love it.
I say that I love it as I'mgonna tell you, like the sad,
like I'm sure that one is beinglike shipped from the us.
That's the issue but it's, it'sbasically it's from a point of
view this guy, viktor Frankl.
(19:42):
He was a psychologist prior toWorld War II and once World War
II happened, the concentrationcamps ended up happening.
He was brought into one of theconcentration camps.
So he's looking at theconcentration camps through the
(20:03):
eyes of a psychologist and oneof the things that he had
mentioned was that he saw a lotof you know, like a huge
difference between like positivethinking and negative thinking.
So one of the one of theexamples I said was that there
(20:24):
was a guy in the concentrationcamp who had a, had a had a
dream that they were going to besaved on this certain date and
that the allies were going tocome in, that they were going to
come in and shut down theconcentration camp and save all
these men, women and children.
(20:44):
So he survived and he was sick,and he survived up until that
day and when nothing happened,the next day he ended up passing
away.
So it was basically this guywas living purely off of hope I
would believe it.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
I mean, I, I found, I found I can get it for 11 euros
, so I will get it and read it,I promise get it, read it and
and, like I said, I'm gonna havea stern talk with your parents.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Mom, I know you listen to this get ready.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
How could you not have given me this book to read?
Horrible, but it is true.
I mean, that makes perfectsense to me that you, you find
this little bit of hope and youcling on to it and you're like,
yes, and then you know, whenpositive thing doesn't happen,
it's like, well, why?
Why keep?
And the same thing inversely,that if you're just focused on
(21:46):
the negative, like you said, theconfirmation bias that like,
then it happens.
Sorry, not confirmation bias,the self-fulfilling prophecy
that like, then now thishorrible thing happens to you.
And I also think that whenyou're so focused on being
negative, or when you allowyourself to just stick to the
negative, you don't changeanything, and that is bad.
(22:09):
I'm going to use the French asan example.
I said the French are terribleabout this.
And, oh my God, look, there aresome stereotypes that are
completely false.
There are some stereotypes thathave a little grain of truth to
them.
You're like, yeah, I see wherethis came from.
And then there are somestereotypes that are completely
false.
There are some stereotypes thathave, like, a little grain of
truth to them.
You're like, yeah, I see wherethis came from.
And then there are some thatyou're like, oh no, this is not
a stereotype, this is a fact.
The French are negative,negative people.
(22:32):
Oh my God, if you are evertalking to somebody who's French
, very quickly the conversationwill turn to complaining.
And don't get me wrong, I lovea good bitch session.
I love leaving a 15-minutevoice message rant to my best
friend, but oftentimes with that, you know, there may be kind of
(22:54):
an element of me like workingthrough it and I'm going to do
something, or maybe I'mspecifically like complaining to
them and I want their help withit.
But I have noticed that withthe French, with basically no
exception, with very fewexceptions the only exceptions I
found are the ones who werelike I don't want to be here.
They will, they'll get intothis pattern where they will
(23:16):
just complain Everything is bad,my job is bad, my boss is bad,
my apartment is bad, andeventually you're like well, do
you want to do something aboutit?
Like you've been complainingabout this for a year.
You know, have you?
Have you talked to your boss?
No, no, no, no, it won't do anygood.
(23:36):
Okay, have you thought aboutlooking for another job?
No, there are no other jobs.
There's got to be something.
I mean, the Olympics were afantastic example of this.
So I live not far outside ofParis.
We of this.
So I live not far outside ofParis.
We had the Olympics here lastsummer, 2024.
(24:00):
And every Parisian, oh my God,they were complaining from like
dawn until dusk about howeverything was going to go wrong
.
The Metro isn't going to work,the this isn't going to work,
this is going to fail, that'snot going to work, this is going
to be awful.
I mean, if you listen to them,you would have been.
I would have understood if youwere like, yeah, there's
definitely going to be like 16terrorist attacks on the
(24:22):
Olympics, like during openingnight or something, and then the
entire city is just going to,you know, get hit by a nuclear
bomb and we're all going to die.
Like that's how dire it was.
And then, when that didn'thappen, when things actually
went really really well, justnothing, nothing was said.
Nobody ever came back and werelike, oh yeah, I thought it was
(24:43):
gonna be bad, but actually itwasn't.
That turned out really well.
No, they just they carried onwith their lives as if nothing
had happened.
But we spent months bitchingabout this and it means that
they don't do anything to changeit.
In this case, they complain,they complain, they complain,
but they're not willing to makeany change, even a small change
(25:05):
that would make a difference.
They instead choose to sitthere in their negativity not
depression, just negative.
Everything sucks, you suck, theweather sucks, dog sucks, just
all sucks.
Are you going to change it?
No, I'm just going to sit hereand complain.
I'm like right, that's whyyou're still at a job that you
(25:25):
don't like, living in anapartment that you don't like,
or, who knows, maybe if youactually turned around and
looked at it in a different way,you would realize that it's not
that bad.
You actually have somethingthat's nice.
You'll find the good in it.
Like, yeah, I have an apartmentNot everyone has one of those.
It has a balcony.
(25:45):
I'm really close to a Metroline, and this is this is what
they'll do if you point that out.
They're like, but it's not themetro line what my work is
located on.
Like, can you be happy foryourself for once?
Speaker 2 (26:00):
No, there's an experiment that I love doing
with people.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Ooh.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
And I love doing this with people and I, I, I love
doing this with people.
It's, uh, how often are youwrong?
And so, like, every time that Ihear somebody having this whole
thing of I know that this isgoing to happen, I know this is
going to happen, I know this isgoing to happen, I know this is
going to happen, I say, okay,between now and the next time
that we uh get together, I wantyou to, every time you say the
(26:32):
words I know that this is goingto happen, keep a mental tab of
it, uh, and then, when thesituation actually happens, keep
a tab of how often you're rightcompared to how often you're
wrong.
The most I've ever heard was avery weak as 20% right, and that
was one of these things wherehe even said that, oh, I'm right
(26:55):
20% of the times.
I was like, were you, let'slook, let's look at the time.
I want to see the numbers andand so he would tell me you know
the the things that that he wasright about, and I was like,
was that right or was that kindof close?
And I'm kind of close, I'm like, yeah, that that wasn't, that
(27:18):
wasn't right, that you were, youwere, uh, you know, 30% right
on that one.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
So yeah, that doesn't count.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
So that doesn't count as as you being right.
So I would say, for the mostpart, it's 10% to 15%, okay, but
the thing is that and I tellpeople all the time that it's
10% to 15% of being right, andin that 10% to 15% of being
(27:47):
right, that whole time that youare going into this, I know
that's it's going to happenYou're putting a hundred percent
of your emotions into it.
You know, if I were to say thatI know this girl that I'm going
to ask out, she's going to sayno, I'm going to feel rejected,
I'm going to feel sad, I'm goingto feel alone and I haven't
(28:09):
even asked her out.
And I'm creating all theseemotions and I say to people
like other than the weather whenwould you put 100% of your
trust and feelings intosomething that you're only 10%?
Right, when you say it likethat, your trust and feelings
(28:29):
into something that you're only?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
10%.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
right, If your job, when you say it like that you
know, if your job paid you for10% of your work, would you stay
at that job?
If your significant other wasloyal to you, 10% of the time
would you stay with that person,but yet you're going to put a
hundred percent of your emotionsinto a 10% chance of being
(28:52):
right.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I think that's a fantastic way to look at it,
because when you break it downlike that like yeah, would you
stay with somebody who's onlylawyer with you 10% of the time
no one in their right mind isgoing to be like oh yeah, that's
totally acceptable, that's agood thing.
Would you hire a consultant whoonly gave good advice 10% of
the time?
I wouldn't.
(29:16):
I don't think anybody wouldLike.
You know that.
But yeah, we get so called upin this idea of like, oh, but
that one time I was right, andso, therefore, and then you're
already focused in, you'realready just in the depths of
your misery, like the French,and everything sucks and
everything is terrible andthere's no possible way to
(29:36):
change it, even though it's notthis idea bad, but you have only
focused on that little bittynegative part.
You're like, yeah, whole citygone, we're all going to die.
I'm like did you though?
No, you didn't die.
(29:58):
You actually went down south forvacation during the Olympics.
You're fine, but you bitchedabout it the whole time and I
had to listen to it.
But you bitched about it thewhole time and I had to listen
to it.
You will hear people, likeforeigners who live here,
mention this about the French.
They're just really, reallynegative.
(30:21):
See, we all see it, we all knowthis.
So, when it comes to negativity, negative thoughts, focusing on
(30:51):
negative stuff not to put you,christopher Patchett, lcsw, on
the spot but what are somesuggestions that you might have
for people who are feeling verynegative or maybe have realized
that they're being supernegative or worried that they're
focusing too much on negativestuff?
What would be your suggestions?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
I, I seek therapy.
You know, if you are down tothat point where everything that
there is no positive outcome,uh, or there is no positive, uh,
anything, then you're seeing avery distorted way of life and
that's, you know, a therapist isthat's kind of one of the
(31:22):
things is being able to.
You know, just as you were kindof saying earlier that there is
a way to change that mindset,just as you were kind of saying
earlier that there is a way tochange that mindset, it's
basically, and one of the thingsI do specialize in is cognitive
behavioral therapy, which isthe whole idea of rewiring your
mind to be able to see.
And I always say, like, as faras cognitive behavioral therapy,
(31:47):
it's not positive thinking, youknow, it's realistic thinking,
and there is a differencebetween positive thinking,
negative thinking and realisticthinking.
Positive thinking is constantlygoing around saying that
everything is going to work out,everything is going to be
beautiful, blah, blah, blah.
And just as well as alwaysthinking negative, always
(32:12):
thinking positive, is going tocreate a lot of problems in life
.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
You know, we know that we live in a world where,
oh God, and we've talkedabout've talked about this we're
like advertisements onInstagram and and Facebook, and
you see, well, yeah, there's noway that somebody is going to
try to reap money off of peoplewho are looking for a job in
(32:46):
their last desperate attempt.
There's no way in how that, ifyou're constantly thinking
positive, you're not looking forthe warning signs, you're not
looking for the things that itcould be a scam, you're always
thinking positive about otherpeople, you're going to end up
(33:06):
being with other people that areharmful and toxic, because if
you're constantly looking at, ohwell, this person, they're with
me and they must love me.
So this must have been like aslip up or something like that,
and it's just like you don'twant to be overly positive, but,
again, you don't want to beoverly negative.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
That is very true.
Being too positive, that tooconfident, this is an upcoming
episode.
How much confidence, this istoo much confidence, but it can
absolutely like turn against you, just the same way.
As you know, we said that beingnegative to a certain extent,
you have to, you have to focuson the negative sometimes
(33:50):
because otherwise you're notgoing to see the problem.
Same thing for being toopositive, and so.
I have run into some stuff whenI was looking for this.
That was the like just thinkpositive, fake it till you make
it Everything's great.
And you're like oh, okay, thependulum has swung way too far
back in the opposite directionand this poor person is going to
(34:12):
run into these if the sameproblems, if they've been
thinking super negatively andnow they're like I must go
positive, that's going to endreally badly for them and then
they're going to go right backto being negative Cause they're
like see, I tried to be positiveand I got scammed.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
And, and you know I it's funny, I actually just
spoke to somebody about this andand they were saying about,
like cause, kind of behavioraltherapy, it, it looks at the
thoughts, it looks at like howthe thoughts affected our
emotions, and so somebody hadasked me there.
He said I, I I was trying to,you know, do the things that
(34:50):
that I need to do as far as like, looking at the thoughts and I
couldn't find any distortionsthat go with it and it's just,
it still makes me feel upset.
I'm like you know that's thething that you know it's not
again, you know it's notpositive thinking, because
you're not trying to find, youknow, something positive out of
(35:13):
this.
You're not trying to look at ormake a situation into a
positive that sometimes thingsjust are shit.
And that's okay, yeah, and it'sokay, yeah, and it's okay, you
know, like it's not always goingto be good in life, but at the
same time is, you know, notnearly as bad as what we make it
out to be wise words, dad, wisewords.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
So where do you see us going from here for the
negative Neds, debbie Downers,one Downers, eeyore, syndromes
of the world.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
I would say that getting therapy as a whole, even
if it is just, you know, quote,unquote their personality.
I love the saying if you tell alie enough times, it becomes
the truth.
So if you are constantly sayingthat the world is shit, that
(36:13):
the world is horrible, thatnothing ever goes right in life,
yeah, you might be saying thatjust kind of like as a general
statement now, but if you'resaying that day after day after
day, it's going to affect youand it's going to cause
depression, because who wants tolive in a world that is
absolute bullshit.
So I would say, if you arehaving these constant thoughts,
(36:39):
see a therapist.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
I would agree with that that therapy is usually the
answer for many of the thingswe talk about here.
I do also think that there's acertain level within this that
doesn't necessarily requiretherapy.
You would benefit from therapy,you would benefit from therapy,
(37:02):
but I think there are a lot ofpeople who could simply, with a
couple of tools maybe the rightbook or something, kind of catch
themselves before they get toofar into the swirling pool of
like everything sucks and I hatelife, and kind of pull yourself
back out and be like okay, Imean even stuff as little as I
remember, one time when I wasworking at camp, I had a group
of girls who I'm not sure whatwas going on with this group.
(37:24):
They were not having a goodtime and it was not their fault,
and we were headed down to thepetting zoo to clean up because
that was our chore for the day,and one of my kids, who was
usually like a happy little kid,was just not having fun.
These girls were like nine, 10,11.
And I told her what I had beentold, which was basically you
(37:47):
know, smile and you forceyourself to smile and that will
make you feel better.
Cause, she asked, she was likewhy are?
Why are you in a good mood?
And I was like well, cause, Ican't be mad, I'm in charge of
you guys, and that's not fair.
You haven't done anything thatyou know deserves my anger, so I
choose to do this.
And this is what I was told shewas like oh, a little bit later
(38:10):
I see this child like scoopinggoat poop, with this maniacal
smile on her face.
And she did come to meafterwards and she was like
you're right, that does make mefeel better.
And I was like, yeah, you cantrick your brain into stuff.
Now that only works to acertain level, after which
therapy.
But sometimes just tryingsomething like that can can get
(38:35):
you out, can stop it before itgets really bad, and maybe in
conjunction with something else.
But yeah, she was a fantasticlittle kid.
I hope she's doing well in life.
Where then would you put the,the one downers of the world, on
our scale of toxicity?
Are they a green potato whomake you sick if you eat it but
(38:59):
just scrape off that bit andyou're probably okay?
Are they a deathcap mushroom,50-50 chance of death or coma
even when cooked?
Or are they a delicious butdeadly last snack, especially
when mixed in with some limejello antifreeze?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I would say that this low-grade death cap, just
because of the fact that mostpeople are, are that's just part
of their personality, that theyare constantly having these
negative like always having tolook at things through a
negative scope, and it's justlike and there's going to be
(39:54):
some people who are just really,really involved into it and
really wrapped up into it, andthat can lead to severe mental
health issues.
So I think that that is goingto be kind of a.
(40:18):
I would say that, yeah, it'snot going to be that often that
people kind of go into thatmental health issue type thing,
but there's it's very, veryquickly can progress that way.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
I'm not going to lie.
I was in writing this week'sepisode, I wanted to find
something that was a greenpotato, because we've had a lot
of antifreeze recently and I waslike I need to, like, bring the
temperature down and talk aboutsome toxic, but not too toxic
stuff.
And I picked this and I startedwriting it.
I was like, oh dang, there'ssome bad things in here Again.
(40:52):
See the fact that it can createmajor health issues if you're
just a really negative person, areally negative person and, as
you said, there's the mentalhealth aspect of that, which is,
if you start down this path, itmay at first just be like oh,
you know, bob's a littlenegative, but okay.
And then 10, 15 years later,you're full on depression,
(41:14):
pessimist about everything,hating life, like unable to
function, rare for sure, but itis possible.
I think I'm still.
I'm going to give it threegreen potatoes.
In a desperate attempt to holdon to what I wanted in the face
(41:35):
of the evidence that I justpresented, Just because I think
that for many people again thiskind of like if you're, you know
, the Debbie Downer or the onedowner of the world there is
probably a lot that you could doon your own to reverse that, to
kind of stop being this type ofperson, without having to go to
(41:58):
a lot of therapy or withouthaving to spend a lot of time
and effort completely changinghow you think and how you do
things.
I think for many people just acouple of small fixes in their
life, if made and kept in place,would do a lot.
Because, again, we all like tocomplain, it's always good to
get out that rant session, butknowing when to stop Fucking
(42:19):
short people.
Fucking bald people Damn, butit's knowing when to stop and be
like okay, this is notproductive anymore, I need to go
get leg lengthening surgery andmove on with my life.
Nah, I'll just wear heels.
Actually I won't, I'd break myankle.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
I'd be really short in a wheelchair.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
so if you know any uh , super negative people or if
you have any other fantasticnames for negative people, feel
free to let us know.
You can write to us at toxic,at awesome life skillscom.
You can also find us onFacebook, on Instagram and on
(43:08):
blue sky you can write to usthere, very active on.
I'm active on all of those Idon't know what you're talking
about every day Posting memes.
That's me.
Yep, shut up.
Social media is hard.
Okay, I don't want to hear it.
(43:30):
It's true.
It's true, I took this onmyself.
Anyway, that's been the toxiccooking show this week.
We'll see you guys next week.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Bye, bye.
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