May 20, 2025 • 45 mins
We've all seen the ads - BetterHelp promises convenient therapy at your fingertips. But behind the slick marketing lies a company with deeply troubling business practices that every therapy-seeker should know about.
When Christopher Patchet, a licensed therapist, along with Lindsay McClane, looks on how BetterHelp operates. From selling sensitive user data to Facebook (resulting in a $7.8 million FTC fine) to allegedly creating fake profiles for real therapists without their consent, the revelations are genuinely shocking.
The toxic ingredients are plentiful: until 2017, BetterHelp didn't even require therapists to be licensed. The platform allegedly directed potential clients away from therapists they specifically sought out. Most disturbing is the revelation that BetterHelp notified Facebook each time users logged into their accounts or attended therapy sessions, creating a pipeline for targeted ads at vulnerable moments.
Despite knowing all this, many mental health influencers continue promoting BetterHelp to their followers. Even more telling: the company spent $8 million on podcast advertising in a single month - more than they paid in fines for violating user privacy.
This episode is just part one of our investigation. Next week, we'll explore how BetterHelp's practices harm both therapists and the clients who trust them with their mental health. If you've used online therapy services or considered them, this two-part series is essential listening that might change how you view digital mental healthcare forever.
https://www.socialworkers.org/News/News-Releases/ID/2613/Online-therapy-referral-company-that-used-deceptive-marketing-practices-is-no-longer-in-business
https://www.faithfulmind.org/listing/203185-Christopher-Patchet
https://www.hipaajournal.com/betterhelp-settlement-ftc-health-data-privacy/
https://vator.tv/2020-11-11-when-betterhelp-was-young-the-early-years/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people to theirsimplest ingredients.
I'm your host this week,christopher Patchett LCSW.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
And I'm Lindsay McLean.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I am going to start off this episode with a
disclaimer Ooh, this episode weare going to be talking about
things that are from my personalexperience, our personal
(00:50):
opinions.
You will be hearing the wordallegedly a lot for things that
haven't been proven yet.
And the reason why I amstarting off this episode with
that kind of disclaimer isbecause we are going to be
talking about BetterHelp.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Ah yes, Aren't these the people who go after anybody
who says anything that remotelylooks like shit about them on
the internet?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Hmm, that's always a good business model.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
BetterHelp has million, million dollar lawyers.
We have a dog for an EP.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I mean I will say maybe this would get us like
super famous.
Maybe we'd get like a lot morelisteners if we had to get into
like a legal battle.
Betterhelp, Just saying itmight be worth it.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I'm not going to try to go down that road.
I was about to say I don't livein the us, so that would be on
you.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Wow, wow, I'm just gonna throw you under the bus on
that one.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Be like bye I am going to start this with the
beginnings of BetterHelp.
No better way to start thebeginning of a show than the
beginning of how BetterHelp cameto be.
Betterhelp was founded and thisactually shocked me founded in
(02:18):
2013.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Whoa, we had online therapy when I still lived in
the US.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yes, yes what.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Damn.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So it was.
It was founded by Alon Mattis,who was trying to find therapy.
He he worked a lot, so his timeschedule was very, very kind of
just out there.
He didn't have like a nine tofive job, so therefore,
sometimes he would need therapyin the morning, sometimes in the
(02:52):
evening, and it's hard to finda therapist that does some
mornings, some evenings.
So his idea was that he wantedto create an online service for
therapy.
He partnered up with DannyBreitgarner and they started up
(03:15):
this small business of onlinetherapy BetterHelp it was.
Eventually, betterhelp wasacquired by Teladoc in 2015.
Teladoc bought BetterHelp for$3.5 million in cash and $1
(03:37):
million in a promissory note.
Betterhelp it continued.
It was growing pretty slow atfirst but as things kind of
picked up, there was a slightthing that happened in 2020 that
caused people not to go out toomuch.
(03:57):
I forget what it was.
It was.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I just remember being home a lot during that time.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, and maybe feeling the need for more
therapy than usual.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yeah, cause things were like really weird and
stressful, so maybe so so theypicked up, they picked up and
and definitely in 2020, they, Imean they went ballistic and I
mean that's when I rememberseeing stuff about them.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, was related to the pandemic and people being
like, oh my God.
And then suddenly BetterHelpwas like sponsoring stuff on
videos and you see peoplesuddenly like really talking
about going to therapy.
I don't think I ever saw likeany of my friends be like I'm
seeing a BetterHelp therapist,but clearly we suddenly realized
that maybe this was a thingthat we needed in our lives.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
So I do remember seeing BetterHelp advertisements
prior to 2020, nowhere near thepoint that we see it now, but
yeah, I do definitely rememberin 2020, I mean it was all over
the place.
Do definitely remember in 2020,I mean it was all over the
place.
So I mean, since the beginningof BetterHelp it's been a pretty
(05:14):
shady type of business.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Really.
Well, yeah, from my opinion, itwas a very shady company I
guess I'm also legitimatelysurprised that, like they didn't
at least start off kind of okaylike I get, when they got
bought out that maybe that wouldhave been like a downhill or
(05:38):
like when covid happened, theysaw easy money and jumped on it.
But I guess I'm also not toosurprised if they've just always
been allegedly a little bit onthe the sketchy side so.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
So, starting off, one of the things was is that up
until 2017, they you didn't haveto be a licensed therapist.
You didn't have to be licensedperiod are you serious?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
seriously are you telling me I missed my golden
opportunity to get on BetterHelpand be a fake therapist and
make money fuck?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
so 2017, they finally got caught out, and because
they were actually using theword get therapy online and for
them to be able to say the wordsget therapy online, you have to
have oh, what is it?
Oh, therapist.
What what now I?
(06:51):
I I'm giving better help thebenefit of the doubt that maybe
they might have used people whograduated college and just did
not have their their actuallicense as we had, or they were
in training to get their license.
But regardless, up until 2017,you did not have to have that
actual license in hand that ishorrifying yeah it's really,
(07:12):
really horrifying uh, well, youknow, and we start off
horrifying and uh, we it justgoes downhill from there, okay,
good uh, in, it just goesdownhill from there.
Okay, good In 2023,.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
They were called out by the Federal Trade Commission
for selling data to Facebook,snapchat, all these different
places?
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Wouldn't that be a violation of HIPAA?
Yeah, big time Ooh.
So they got fined $7.8 million.
Good, which is good.
I you know, I'm glad that theygot fined $7.8 million, okay.
So just to kind of put it toyou this way, me as a provider,
(08:20):
if I were to say, hey, lindsay,I'm working with this client.
If I were to say, hey, lindsay,I'm working with this client,
this is the person's informationand I start talking to you
about him or her or whatever,and the person that I'm talking
(08:42):
about finds out, or anybodyfinds out, as a matter of fact,
I can get reported, I will gethit with a HIPAA violation.
Get reported, I will get hitwith a hipaa violation and my
fine would be anywhere from 10000 to 100 000 and better help
paid how much?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
7.8 million dollars that doesn't feel like a lot.
That is for first events.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
And the thing is okay .
So with HIPAA it is very, veryand this is one of the biggest
reasons why I never use anyexamples for my practice on this
show is because of the factthat if you say one thing, that
let's say that I was talkingabout a situation, and even in
(09:29):
the situation the person's ableto pick up that oh shit, he's
talking about me.
They can, they can go off andthey can get me.
Yeah.
So I mean, even though I'm notgiving you any information of
this person, the fact that I'mgiving you information of what
is talked about in my sessions,I can get hit with a huge fine.
(09:54):
So, not even purposely doingsomething, I can get hit with a
huge fine BetterHelp.
On the other hand, theypurposely were selling
information to Facebook, toSnapchat, instagram.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I like Snapchat better.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
And it gets even worse.
How?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
do you get worse from selling people's personal
medical information to facebook?
Speaker 1 (10:29):
well.
So they not only were theyselling information to facebook,
but they were also anytime thatsomebody were to log into their
better help account, anytimethat they had a session, they
alerted facebook to let themknow.
And this way, when you weregoing on facebook afterwards and
(10:52):
it was like um, you would seean ad for like, hey, you got
anxiety, you know, or these are,uh, these are reasons, or these
are things to do when you haveanxiety and no oh.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Oh my God, that is such a violation of privacy on
every level, even if this wasnot like medical information.
The medical information makesit that much worse.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Well, I mean, the thing is that, yeah, the fact
that it's not medicalinformation is because now you
have somebody who Facebook nowknows that they're signing up
for anxiety.
Facebook now sees when they'relogging into their account,
facebook now sees when they'remost vulnerable.
(11:36):
And now Facebook is giving thisperson a chance who allegedly I
guess, just to save our ass,allegedly is thrown in Bill
Smith's anti-anxiety tricks.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Well, because I know that, having done some work on
Facebook ads in the past fordifferent companies I've worked
on, I know that you can kind ofgo through when you're running
an ad and you can pick, like,which interest groups to show it
to and they call it interests.
But if you look at some ofthese interests, this is not
somebody who has, like,professed an interest and, you
(12:14):
know, clicked I'm interested in.
Because I remember, because ofthe specific work I was doing, I
realized that you could targetpeople who were interested in
volunteering, in donations, inthat type of thing, and that's
not something you ever say onFacebook, that's something that
Facebook picks up about you andyour activity.
So I would imagine, if I everwent back into that, you
(12:37):
probably could find some peoplewho are interested in something
to do with mental health orwhatever.
I would bet that Facebook hasthat option and then advertisers
could use that to target peoplereally directly.
And then, yeah, facebook wouldlike super pinpoint you and be
like, hey, you're feeling likeshit right now and I know it.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that that's disgusting in
so many different ways.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Oh yeah, that's horrible.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So this started in 2018.
Mm-hmm, and they finally gotcalled out in 2023.
So only two years ago.
Oh my God, oh my.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
God, I mean, they were doing it for five years and
they were doing it during COVID.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
Oh, and I know they milked itduring covid allegedly, of
course, if they actually didthis well no, so they, they
actually have been, theyactually good I, I was saying
allegedly to save our assbecause of, like, what facebook
would be doing, uh, with thatinformation, right, and so you
(13:45):
know, but the actual act ofselling that information to
Facebook, we know that they'vedone that.
We, 100% we know they got, theywere caught out by the Federal
Trade Commission, they got finedby the Federal Trade Commission
and so I mean this is legit100%.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
No, allegedly this happened this is legit a hundred
percent?
No, allegedly this happens.
I have that much less respectfor the people who run multiple
better help ads on their YouTubechannels now.
You know, and and that was Iremember when, you and I, when
we first started talking aboutpodcasting it was one thing that
we said was like oh yeah, if weget cool enough to actually get
to run ads, there is onecompany that we will.
(14:25):
Was like oh yeah, if we getcool enough to actually get to
run ads, there is one companythat we will never run them for
better help yeah, oh god.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Second problem is and this is according to the
national nswa, which is theNational Social Workers of
America Association is basicallythe oversighting government
council for social workers ingeneral across the United States
(15:00):
.
So on the National SocialWorkers Association website, so
on the National Social WorkerAssociation website, they were
stating that there was a websitecalled CareDash.
So what CareDash did was, ifyou so, for me to be able to
(15:21):
practice therapy and to be ableto bill insurances and things
like that, I have to have an MPInumber.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
That MPI number.
It's public information.
If you looked up my name rightnow and Googled Christopher
Patchett MPI, you will see flatout my number.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Okay, and that's used to like taxes or to track your
degree.
That's used to actually chargethe insurance companies.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Okay, basically, that's my medical number, that's
my medical ID.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
So what Caradash was doing was they were going down
public information MPI number.
If you have an MPI number,caradash would take that
information and they made aprofile for you, which sounds
nice, you know.
Thank you, you made a profilefor me.
(16:23):
Yeah, yeah, I see that look, Isee that look.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I'm suspicious about this.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
You're like if this is coming up on the toxic
cooking show?
Like you know, this isdefinitely not a good profile.
So, so that much is.
So.
What would it end up happeningis, let's say, somebody you told
a friend of yours saying likehey, you're, you're having
(16:48):
anxiety.
You know, I, I know a reallygood therapist.
I saw blah, blah, blah andrecommended your, your friend,
to joe simon, whatever theperson be like okay, cool, you
know, and takes lindsey's adviceand looks up Joe whatever, and
they find the CareDash profilefor this person and they're like
(17:12):
cool, they click on the contactJoe whatever, and it will send
them to BetterHelp.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
So that much is 100% fact.
This point forward is allegedlyOkay.
So what would end up happeningis, let's say, somebody did look
me up and they just Googled myname.
They saw the CareDash profileand they said contact
(17:47):
Christopher patchett and sendthem to better help.
I, I did work for better helpfor a short amount of time, but
even before I'd worked for them,it would send them to better
help.
And if they try to book anappointment with christopher
patchett, oh shit, christ,christopher Patchett is
completely booked up here.
(18:09):
Why don't you try one of theseother therapists?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
That's a lie.
Yeah, how have they been ableto do that?
Allegedly, of course.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Shit practices.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, I mean, I guess people wouldn't know this.
It's not like you're clickingthrough eight different
therapists and you'd be like wow, everyone's magically booked up
whenever I try and do it thisway but not that way.
It wouldn't necessarily catchyour attention, but that does
mean that work that would havegone to you is being given to
somebody else, if that'sactually what's happening.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah, yeah and that, and that's the thing is that.
So now this person who wasrecommended, or who was given my
name for a recommendation,they're now saying, okay, well,
I guess he's booked up.
Like you know, like I'm, youknow, I'm not going to sit
around and wait for a therapistfor the next four or five months
.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, well, try one of these other people.
Yeah, might as well just tryone of these other people.
I'm really interested nowbecause I know that to a certain
extent, there have been issueswith people finding therapists
that have openings for them anddoctors who have openings for
them, and I have to wonder ifmaybe this was not part of it is
(19:27):
that people were looking themup and ending up like this and
accidentally being given notaccidentally being given or
finding information that wasmaybe not totally correct about
that person's availabilities,and that's why there's like
therapists are booked up formonths.
No, they aren't.
They have openings.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Oh God, yeah, yeah, yeah it's.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
That's slimy.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
It's slimy and we'll get deeper into this as we kind
of go on.
Oh no, so as far as far as uhkardash goes, kardash is no
longer.
Uh.
They were since national, uhsocial workers uh association
(20:20):
kind of mentioned about them andeverything like that.
I don't know if they got shutdown like by legal means, or if
they were just so if they maybeuh felt themselves to be in
danger yeah either way, it'ssuspicious yeah, so, uh, so I
(20:47):
mean care dash is no longer.
But so I was just curious and Ityped in my, or googled my name
and better help, lindsay, you'veknown me for 14 years, you old
(21:07):
fuck.
Hey.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Just you wait.
There's something coming foryou soon about that.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
You're old too.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
So you've known me for 14 years.
How good of a Christian wouldyou say that I am?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
On a scale of one to 10, I would say you are a 0.
Yeah, not a Christian, buddhistatheist or Buddhist agnostic.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I consider myself to be a Buddhist agnostic.
Okay, so like, I definitelybelieve in the philosophy of
Buddhism, even though I don'tfucking really practice it,
because one of the things is isI shouldn't be cursing but I say
fuck that, but I do believe inthe philosophy of it.
(22:17):
I it's just as far as thereligious aspect of things.
I consider myself to be atheist, agnostic, whatever.
When I looked myself up ongoogle christopher patchett,
better help I saw a website,faithorg oh no looking for a
(22:37):
christian therapist contactchristopher patchett oh, no,
yeah, I mean it's.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
It's funny because it didn't happen and, like you
know, this has been okay.
But I am imagining it likesomebody who is christian and is
like actually trying to lookfor this and if they ended up
with you, oh, nobody would behappy you know, and that's the
thing, is that okay, I, I willnever claim to be a christian,
(23:10):
uh, therapist, there's nothingwrong with it.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
You know, like absolutely I, I'm all for it.
If somebody is that, ifsomebody is has that strong of a
belief in Christianity, thenchances are they're going to
want to talk to somebody whoshares those same values and
(23:34):
those same, that's fair.
Yeah, so you know a hundredpercent.
I agree with you.
Know anybody who's listening,you know if, if that is your
thing, more power to you, that.
Uh, but faithorg I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Oh no.
So I clicked on it and it tookme to BetterHelp Really yes, was
this when you still had yourBetterHelp page active, because
I know that you have stoppedworking for them.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Yeah, I know we're going to get into that.
Yeah, I mean, if you did thistoday, you would still see my
name.
And then my guess would be andagain this is 100% guessing that
the person would look me up.
They see faithorg, they go onto BetterHelp.
(24:34):
And again this is 100% guessingthat it would be the same thing
of well, christopher Patch iscompletely booked up right now.
Why don't you try?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
one of these other Christian therapists.
Although in this case thatwould be a good thing, this poor
soul who is looking forChristian therapy would not end
up with you.
Absolutely, I mean you know,and that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
But the thing is that hopefully they had let Better
help know that they were lookingfor a Christian therapist.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Well, yeah, cause if they're just like then saying,
oh, why don't you try thisperson, this person or that
person Clearly, if this isindeed the case, they haven't
done the background work.
To be like was the first personthe X, y, z that that person
like came in looking for, and sothen are these other people.
Because I would imagine onbetter help, like on your
profile, you had a way ofsetting, like what types of
(25:35):
therapy or specifics that you do.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Okay, and Christian therapy was not one of them.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Obviously, obviously.
Yeah, that doesn't bode, well,see we, we we, we take care of
problems that way.
There you go and then and thenalso with the the whole thing of
(26:02):
looking up my name Just ingeneral I also did see it was
health grade which actually hadmy profile from psychology today
.
When I worked for BetterHelp Ijust started doing private
(26:27):
practice therapy and I made aprofile on there.
I have a Psychology Todayprofile which I actually pay for
, and then the health grade.
I see they took the informationoff of my Psychology Today page
(26:48):
and same thing.
The moment that you go on thereyou read my profile and you say
, hey, I want to work with thisguy.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
And contact person and it will take you to better
help.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Interesting how every single site seems to lead to
BetterHelp.
It's suspicious.
I mean, we don't know ifBetterHelp is paying these
people and we're not going tomake that assumption.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
No, it's good to point out when things you know,
the math ain't math.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
And the math is not math in here.
Oh, I love it, do you?
And, and and on top of so, okay, so these were the, these were
the, the, the, the worst of theworst, of BetterHelp itself.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
So we're stealing people's private health
information and selling it toFacebook, and we are potentially
misdirecting people to othertherapists when they try and
look up someone specific.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
All right.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
That's pretty solidly shit.
So let's let's look at theiradvertising.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
So I hate their advertising.
I do not want to look at anymore of it.
Skip it whenever I see it oh mygod.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So yeah, I'm.
I would think by now you'veheard a better help, just just
for the fact that it has beenadvertised over and over again.
If you want to watch a youtubevideo, it seems like every
fucking yeah, oh my god, itnever ends podcasts, except for
(28:49):
this one, because, yeah, we willnever advertise for better help
.
We will never advertise forbetter help and I think after
this, uh, you know, we we'vekind of pulled away our um any
type of agreement with them.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, Uh.
So yeah, if you're listening tothis and all of a sudden you do
see that that this uh, you knowepisode gets pulled, better,
how probably offered us a fuckton of money, Billions we got it
After this we got to discusshow much we're willing to go for
.
Uh, so advertisementseverywhere, every fucking where.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
I want to know their advertising budget.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Well, so remember when I was saying about how they
got fined by the FTC?
Do you remember what thatnumber was?
Speaker 2 (29:49):
It's like seven something million, seven or
eight million.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah, 7.8 million.
Okay, so a loan in December of2023.
This is the same year that theygot that.
Fine, a loan One month.
And we're not talking aboutYouTube, we're not talking about
the money that was spent onInstagram, we're not.
(30:13):
This is just podcast loan.
Podcast One month $8 millionspent on advertisements.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Get out.
No wonder they're everywhere.
They literally are $8 millionin one month.
I mean, I know that podcastingis like a really big thing and
so, like there are tons ofpodcasts, you'd be hitting Damn.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I mean, I'm sure I don't know this for a fact.
I'm sure I'm almost positivethat I did hear it on Joe Rogan.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
They're turning the freaking frogs gay.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
No, joe Rogan.
He's oh God, he was frogs gayman.
No, that's Alex Jones.
Oh, okay, I thought it was JoeRogan.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
He's, oh God he's.
He was Frog's gay man.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
No, that's Alex Jones .
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Oh, okay, joe Rogan was the one who.
Why are you listening to JoeRogan?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Oh God.
Well, so he's actually.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I swear to God if you say, well, I don't agree with
everything he says, but some ofthe stuff I am going to punch
you through the screen.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
No, I do not listen to Joe Rogan.
So he was the one who was doingthe whole thing of back in 2020
of vaccinations, and he was thereason why a lot of artists is
pulled away from Spotify.
Do you remember that wholething?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
I do yeah, Cause I know I think he is still the top
podcaster.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yeah, he, he's, but yeah, yeah, so he actually has
been sponsored by better help.
So I'm sure just you know,considering the fact that he
gets millions of listeners perday.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
That's true that that's going to.
A couple of those celebrityendorsements would cost you big,
but still 8 million just forpodcasts.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yeah.
And they also blanket YouTube,like there are multiple
YouTubers across differentgenres who I have seen who have
done better help advertisementsacross different genres, who I
have seen who have done betterhelp advertisements, you know,
and the thing is, is it's it'sliterally there for a while.
If we were only by productsbased on what we've seen on
youtube, I would have said likea year ago, the only things in
(32:32):
the world that exist are betterhelp and the become a lord by
buying the Scotland or Scottishpiece of land or whatever the
fuck that was.
Oh God.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
I didn't get that one .
I definitely got better, Ithink, cause well and out myself
here, I use an ad blocker for alot of YouTube videos, not for
all of them, but for for themost part when I watch.
So I only see the ads where theperson, the host, is reading it
out.
And those were the ones.
That was like you were gettingtons of better help.
Also, weird games, but you knowwhat I'll take the games.
(33:12):
I'll take June's Journey anyday over the better help one.
Please make it stop.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
No, and oh god, the uh, no, the uh, the scottish
lord thing that that was thesame thing where it was who's
being read out in the middle,yeah, you know, like right in
the middle, you know uh, andjust to give you a second, you
know to.
You know, let's bring you to oursponsor today, you know, and it
was uh, but yeah that it seemedlike there for for about a
(33:41):
month or two.
Those were like the only twothings that were ever like being
like advertised oh, I also gethello fresh a lot online, so
much hello fresh yeah, I've beenseeing that a little bit here.
So yeah, so in one month theywere able to.
They paid more for a podcastthan they did to selling off
(34:05):
information of.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
We can only we can only guesstimate, like tens,
probably hundreds of thousandsof people, probably even
millions I mean, you imagine,most people have facebook yeah
whether they use it actively ornot, and I think people don't
also don't realize that facebookhas the ability to track you
across other websites and suchtoo.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
So like facebook, then having this access on top
of all of that or like thatinformation going back and forth
, really really not good yeah,yeah, and then, and considering
the fact that that this was allgoing, that that whole thing was
going on during the whole likepandemic yeah, you were
definitely talking aboutmillions of people and again,
per person, per incident, very,very, very least I would get
(34:54):
$10,000, fine, after probablythe second, third, fourth, fifth
, billionth fucking uh timedoing it wrong.
It would probably be a hell ofa lot more.
Yeah, oh, so there's twoinfluencers that that I kind of
want to bring to to everybody'sattention.
(35:15):
So there is one influencer well, not an influencer.
He does little sketches on oninstagram, so he goes by the
name boston be a man, and it'svery, very tongue-in-cheek.
So I'm gonna play one of hisnormal little sketches If you
(35:40):
can't fix something chuck afucking wrench across the room.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Be a man.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
So okay, if you can't fix something, chuck a wrench
across the room.
Be a man Very tongue-in-cheek.
Hopefully people pick that upand realize that that's satire.
That itire that is again verytongue-in-cheek is not meant to
be real, and hopefully peopleare picking up that the other
(36:10):
guys in the room are laughing,which is scary within itself
yeah, personally I look at thattype of thing.
It's like no jokes here so thatwas, that was b-man.
Uh, that, that's his normal gigokay I want to now so shit,
(36:33):
boomer jokes yeah, pretty muchOkay, so I'm going to play for
you his advertisement for BetterHelp.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Okay, Sad don't be.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Be a man.
So do you hear that Sad, don'tbe Be a man?
And then it says underneath itbetter help right, I just, I
just won't be sad, then right,but then I wouldn't need better
help, right so I mean it's oh,my god, it's okay, uh, again,
you know, if you realize thatit's tongue-in-cheek, that it's
(37:19):
sarcasm or it's satire, then thefact that BetterHelp quickly
comes up on the screen, get helpwith BetterHelp at the very end
.
I mean, if they are picking outthat it is tongue-in-cheek,
(37:41):
that's not going to look likeit's uh, real or meaningful,
like no, you also have notconvinced me that this is like a
trustworthy.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
If this is how you advertise and obviously I'm
clearly not the target audience,I fully acknowledge that.
But I'm just saying like if Iran across that video I'd be
like what is this like?
Speaker 1 (38:02):
this doesn't seem legit yeah, and and then, if you
, I guess it isn't so and if youdon't pick it up, that it's
satire the fact that that betterhelp is promote or being
promoted through.
If you're feeling sad, throw awrench, like as a therapist like
(38:27):
I, I I would never send thatmixed message.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
That, um no because people you know a lot of jokes
and and stereotypes and stufflike that.
The reason they're funny isthat there's an element of truth
to them to a certain extent,and so people tell that joke is
like a ha ha, this is what youshould do.
It's not funny, though, becausepeople actually do do it, and
it's not cool to be in thatsituation where you have a
(38:55):
partner who's like threateningviolence to you.
It's you can try and like, putit like oh, this is, this is
funny, this is a joke.
Who's like threatening violenceto you.
It's you can try and like putit as like oh, this is, this is
funny, this is a joke.
It's not a joke.
We don't joke about that.
It's a lot of stuff we can jokeabout.
Yeah, not this.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
So then and then there, there's another
influencer that I.
I actually really respected herup until the fact that I saw
her promoting for BetterHelp.
So she has her doctorate.
She is a mental healthprofessional.
(39:32):
She goes by the name TruthDoctor, doctor, she herself.
She has overcome borderlinepersonality disorder, which is a
very difficult disorder to have.
So the fact that she's beenable to overcome it and the fact
that she is promoting awarenessfor it, bravo.
(39:55):
And again, I followed her.
I thought that she was prettyamazing.
But the thing that as soon as Istarted seeing her having
advertisements for BetterHelpbut as a mental health
professional, I would hope thatsomebody would actually do a
(40:21):
little bit of research because,again, this is not like brand
new things that have been goingon.
We go back to, like I said,2017 that it came out.
You didn't even have to be alicensed therapist at the time.
We see that the NSWA has kindof called better help out on
(40:43):
that as well.
You see that the FTC has calledout better help on that.
I personally would not want topromote something like that,
seeing that, again, the ftcruling, that was only two years
(41:03):
ago.
I would like to see a lot moretime, especially when you're
talking about hipaa violationsthere's also the fact that this
is your field, like I get it.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
You're a diy youtuber and better help comes to you
and it's like hey, I'll give youthis money if you promote me.
Right, you're not going to lookinto it as much, it's not what
you do.
So I have a little bit moregrace for that type of person
who's like eh, okay, withinreason, of course, but for
somebody like this, I'm like youshould have been far more aware
(41:36):
of what was going on and youabsolutely should have looked
into and you should be lookinginto any company who sponsors
you.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Right.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
I do expect that.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
And the thing is, you know, so she has a huge
following on TikTok andInstagram and things like that,
so she is making money throughboth of those platforms.
Through both of those platformsshe also does a podcast, which
I don't know how big that is,but she may or may not be
getting revenue through there.
She's so.
She's also a doctorate inpsychology, so I'm sure she's
(42:12):
seeing clients on a one-on-onebasis and she's getting plenty
of revenue through there.
I've seen her advertising herown program of, you know, like
hey, like let's venture off, andand you know, we're going to go
here and then we're going tolearn more about this, and it
was, I mean, way out of my pricerange.
But I'm guessing and and againthis, I don't have anything to
(42:38):
prove it that she is making somerevenue off of that trip.
So I mean, you know, it's notthat she's a starving fresh out
of college thrown into the field.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Struggling to survive , taking anything she can get,
exactly.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
You know she's very subtle.
She's been doing this for years.
Exactly, you know she's verysubtle, she's been doing this
for years.
She's, I'm sure, making verywell, at least a good living,
and she's promoting this, soit's.
I think that is veryirresponsible, considering the
(43:17):
fact that she should A what'sgoing to what better help has
done and what better help does,not only to the therapist, but
also what they do with the, theclients, and how, how.
That is dangerous for bothsides, and we'll definitely talk
(43:45):
about that next week.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
You're going to leave us on the cliffhanger.
There is so much shit on betterhelp that we have to do two
parts.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yes, yes, indeed, I am shot.
So I there there.
There is a lot of things, thatthat there are problems as far
as the way that better help isat least to me as a therapist
and and again, we're gonna haveto do the whole allegedly and
(44:13):
everything like that, because,um, we don't want a letter of
cease and desist that they arevery, very, very well known for,
and then also how it is verydamaging for the most important
person, which is the clientsthemselves.
And we'll also do where do wego from here?
(44:38):
And we'll rate BetterHelp onour tale of toxicity next week.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
I already know what I'm going to rate them Spoiler.
Green potato Of course Half agreen potato.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
So join us next week when I go into further details
of how this is very damaging.
Follow us on.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
We've got Facebook, instagram and Blue Sky are the
sort of active ones.
They will be active.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
And you can always contact us at toxic at awesome
life skillscom, and lookingforward to seeing you next week.
My name is Christopher Patchett.
I am LCSW.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
And I've been Lindsay McLean.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Bye.
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people to theirsimplest ingredients.
I'm your host this week,christopher Patchett LCSW.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
And I'm Lindsay McLean.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I am going to start off this episode with a
disclaimer Ooh, this episode weare going to be talking about
things that are from my personalexperience, our personal
(00:50):
opinions.
You will be hearing the wordallegedly a lot for things that
haven't been proven yet.
And the reason why I amstarting off this episode with
that kind of disclaimer isbecause we are going to be
talking about BetterHelp.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Ah yes, Aren't these the people who go after anybody
who says anything that remotelylooks like shit about them on
the internet?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Hmm, that's always a good business model.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
BetterHelp has million, million dollar lawyers.
We have a dog for an EP.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I mean I will say maybe this would get us like
super famous.
Maybe we'd get like a lot morelisteners if we had to get into
like a legal battle.
Betterhelp, Just saying itmight be worth it.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I'm not going to try to go down that road.
I was about to say I don't livein the us, so that would be on
you.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Wow, wow, I'm just gonna throw you under the bus on
that one.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Be like bye I am going to start this with the
beginnings of BetterHelp.
No better way to start thebeginning of a show than the
beginning of how BetterHelp cameto be.
Betterhelp was founded and thisactually shocked me founded in
(02:18):
2013.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Whoa, we had online therapy when I still lived in
the US.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yes, yes what.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Damn.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So it was.
It was founded by Alon Mattis,who was trying to find therapy.
He he worked a lot, so his timeschedule was very, very kind of
just out there.
He didn't have like a nine tofive job, so therefore,
sometimes he would need therapyin the morning, sometimes in the
(02:52):
evening, and it's hard to finda therapist that does some
mornings, some evenings.
So his idea was that he wantedto create an online service for
therapy.
He partnered up with DannyBreitgarner and they started up
(03:15):
this small business of onlinetherapy BetterHelp it was.
Eventually, betterhelp wasacquired by Teladoc in 2015.
Teladoc bought BetterHelp for$3.5 million in cash and $1
(03:37):
million in a promissory note.
Betterhelp it continued.
It was growing pretty slow atfirst but as things kind of
picked up, there was a slightthing that happened in 2020 that
caused people not to go out toomuch.
(03:57):
I forget what it was.
It was.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I just remember being home a lot during that time.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, and maybe feeling the need for more
therapy than usual.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yeah, cause things were like really weird and
stressful, so maybe so so theypicked up, they picked up and
and definitely in 2020, they, Imean they went ballistic and I
mean that's when I rememberseeing stuff about them.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Yeah, was related to the pandemic and people being
like, oh my God.
And then suddenly BetterHelpwas like sponsoring stuff on
videos and you see peoplesuddenly like really talking
about going to therapy.
I don't think I ever saw likeany of my friends be like I'm
seeing a BetterHelp therapist,but clearly we suddenly realized
that maybe this was a thingthat we needed in our lives.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
So I do remember seeing BetterHelp advertisements
prior to 2020, nowhere near thepoint that we see it now, but
yeah, I do definitely rememberin 2020, I mean it was all over
the place.
Do definitely remember in 2020,I mean it was all over the
place.
So I mean, since the beginningof BetterHelp it's been a pretty
(05:14):
shady type of business.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Really.
Well, yeah, from my opinion, itwas a very shady company I
guess I'm also legitimatelysurprised that, like they didn't
at least start off kind of okaylike I get, when they got
bought out that maybe that wouldhave been like a downhill or
(05:38):
like when covid happened, theysaw easy money and jumped on it.
But I guess I'm also not toosurprised if they've just always
been allegedly a little bit onthe the sketchy side so.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
So, starting off, one of the things was is that up
until 2017, they you didn't haveto be a licensed therapist.
You didn't have to be licensedperiod are you serious?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
seriously are you telling me I missed my golden
opportunity to get on BetterHelpand be a fake therapist and
make money fuck?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
so 2017, they finally got caught out, and because
they were actually using theword get therapy online and for
them to be able to say the wordsget therapy online, you have to
have oh, what is it?
Oh, therapist.
What what now I?
(06:51):
I I'm giving better help thebenefit of the doubt that maybe
they might have used people whograduated college and just did
not have their their actuallicense as we had, or they were
in training to get their license.
But regardless, up until 2017,you did not have to have that
actual license in hand that ishorrifying yeah it's really,
(07:12):
really horrifying uh, well, youknow, and we start off
horrifying and uh, we it justgoes downhill from there, okay,
good uh, in, it just goesdownhill from there.
Okay, good In 2023,.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
They were called out by the Federal Trade Commission
for selling data to Facebook,snapchat, all these different
places?
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Wouldn't that be a violation of HIPAA?
Yeah, big time Ooh.
So they got fined $7.8 million.
Good, which is good.
I you know, I'm glad that theygot fined $7.8 million, okay.
So just to kind of put it toyou this way, me as a provider,
(08:20):
if I were to say, hey, lindsay,I'm working with this client.
If I were to say, hey, lindsay,I'm working with this client,
this is the person's informationand I start talking to you
about him or her or whatever,and the person that I'm talking
(08:42):
about finds out, or anybodyfinds out, as a matter of fact,
I can get reported, I will gethit with a HIPAA violation.
Get reported, I will get hitwith a hipaa violation and my
fine would be anywhere from 10000 to 100 000 and better help
paid how much?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
7.8 million dollars that doesn't feel like a lot.
That is for first events.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
And the thing is okay .
So with HIPAA it is very, veryand this is one of the biggest
reasons why I never use anyexamples for my practice on this
show is because of the factthat if you say one thing, that
let's say that I was talkingabout a situation, and even in
(09:29):
the situation the person's ableto pick up that oh shit, he's
talking about me.
They can, they can go off andthey can get me.
Yeah.
So I mean, even though I'm notgiving you any information of
this person, the fact that I'mgiving you information of what
is talked about in my sessions,I can get hit with a huge fine.
(09:54):
So, not even purposely doingsomething, I can get hit with a
huge fine BetterHelp.
On the other hand, theypurposely were selling
information to Facebook, toSnapchat, instagram.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I like Snapchat better.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
And it gets even worse.
How?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
do you get worse from selling people's personal
medical information to facebook?
Speaker 1 (10:29):
well.
So they not only were theyselling information to facebook,
but they were also anytime thatsomebody were to log into their
better help account, anytimethat they had a session, they
alerted facebook to let themknow.
And this way, when you weregoing on facebook afterwards and
(10:52):
it was like um, you would seean ad for like, hey, you got
anxiety, you know, or these are,uh, these are reasons, or these
are things to do when you haveanxiety and no oh.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Oh my God, that is such a violation of privacy on
every level, even if this wasnot like medical information.
The medical information makesit that much worse.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Well, I mean, the thing is that, yeah, the fact
that it's not medicalinformation is because now you
have somebody who Facebook nowknows that they're signing up
for anxiety.
Facebook now sees when they'relogging into their account,
facebook now sees when they'remost vulnerable.
(11:36):
And now Facebook is giving thisperson a chance who allegedly I
guess, just to save our ass,allegedly is thrown in Bill
Smith's anti-anxiety tricks.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Well, because I know that, having done some work on
Facebook ads in the past fordifferent companies I've worked
on, I know that you can kind ofgo through when you're running
an ad and you can pick, like,which interest groups to show it
to and they call it interests.
But if you look at some ofthese interests, this is not
somebody who has, like,professed an interest and, you
(12:14):
know, clicked I'm interested in.
Because I remember, because ofthe specific work I was doing, I
realized that you could targetpeople who were interested in
volunteering, in donations, inthat type of thing, and that's
not something you ever say onFacebook, that's something that
Facebook picks up about you andyour activity.
So I would imagine, if I everwent back into that, you
(12:37):
probably could find some peoplewho are interested in something
to do with mental health orwhatever.
I would bet that Facebook hasthat option and then advertisers
could use that to target peoplereally directly.
And then, yeah, facebook wouldlike super pinpoint you and be
like, hey, you're feeling likeshit right now and I know it.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that that's disgusting in
so many different ways.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Oh yeah, that's horrible.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So this started in 2018.
Mm-hmm, and they finally gotcalled out in 2023.
So only two years ago.
Oh my God, oh my.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
God, I mean, they were doing it for five years and
they were doing it during COVID.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
Oh, and I know they milked itduring covid allegedly, of
course, if they actually didthis well no, so they, they
actually have been, theyactually good I, I was saying
allegedly to save our assbecause of, like, what facebook
would be doing, uh, with thatinformation, right, and so you
(13:45):
know, but the actual act ofselling that information to
Facebook, we know that they'vedone that.
We, 100% we know they got, theywere caught out by the Federal
Trade Commission, they got finedby the Federal Trade Commission
and so I mean this is legit100%.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
No, allegedly this happened this is legit a hundred
percent?
No, allegedly this happens.
I have that much less respectfor the people who run multiple
better help ads on their YouTubechannels now.
You know, and and that was Iremember when, you and I, when
we first started talking aboutpodcasting it was one thing that
we said was like oh yeah, if weget cool enough to actually get
to run ads, there is onecompany that we will.
(14:25):
Was like oh yeah, if we getcool enough to actually get to
run ads, there is one companythat we will never run them for
better help yeah, oh god.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Second problem is and this is according to the
national nswa, which is theNational Social Workers of
America Association is basicallythe oversighting government
council for social workers ingeneral across the United States
(15:00):
.
So on the National SocialWorkers Association website, so
on the National Social WorkerAssociation website, they were
stating that there was a websitecalled CareDash.
So what CareDash did was, ifyou so, for me to be able to
(15:21):
practice therapy and to be ableto bill insurances and things
like that, I have to have an MPInumber.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
That MPI number.
It's public information.
If you looked up my name rightnow and Googled Christopher
Patchett MPI, you will see flatout my number.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Okay, and that's used to like taxes or to track your
degree.
That's used to actually chargethe insurance companies.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Okay, basically, that's my medical number, that's
my medical ID.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
So what Caradash was doing was they were going down
public information MPI number.
If you have an MPI number,caradash would take that
information and they made aprofile for you, which sounds
nice, you know.
Thank you, you made a profilefor me.
(16:23):
Yeah, yeah, I see that look, Isee that look.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I'm suspicious about this.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
You're like if this is coming up on the toxic
cooking show?
Like you know, this isdefinitely not a good profile.
So, so that much is.
So.
What would it end up happeningis, let's say, somebody you told
a friend of yours saying likehey, you're, you're having
(16:48):
anxiety.
You know, I, I know a reallygood therapist.
I saw blah, blah, blah andrecommended your, your friend,
to joe simon, whatever theperson be like okay, cool, you
know, and takes lindsey's adviceand looks up Joe whatever, and
they find the CareDash profilefor this person and they're like
(17:12):
cool, they click on the contactJoe whatever, and it will send
them to BetterHelp.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
So that much is 100% fact.
This point forward is allegedlyOkay.
So what would end up happeningis, let's say, somebody did look
me up and they just Googled myname.
They saw the CareDash profileand they said contact
(17:47):
Christopher patchett and sendthem to better help.
I, I did work for better helpfor a short amount of time, but
even before I'd worked for them,it would send them to better
help.
And if they try to book anappointment with christopher
patchett, oh shit, christ,christopher Patchett is
completely booked up here.
(18:09):
Why don't you try one of theseother therapists?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
That's a lie.
Yeah, how have they been ableto do that?
Allegedly, of course.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Shit practices.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah, I mean, I guess people wouldn't know this.
It's not like you're clickingthrough eight different
therapists and you'd be like wow, everyone's magically booked up
whenever I try and do it thisway but not that way.
It wouldn't necessarily catchyour attention, but that does
mean that work that would havegone to you is being given to
somebody else, if that'sactually what's happening.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah, yeah and that, and that's the thing is that.
So now this person who wasrecommended, or who was given my
name for a recommendation,they're now saying, okay, well,
I guess he's booked up.
Like you know, like I'm, youknow, I'm not going to sit
around and wait for a therapistfor the next four or five months
.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah, well, try one of these other people.
Yeah, might as well just tryone of these other people.
I'm really interested nowbecause I know that to a certain
extent, there have been issueswith people finding therapists
that have openings for them anddoctors who have openings for
them, and I have to wonder ifmaybe this was not part of it is
(19:27):
that people were looking themup and ending up like this and
accidentally being given notaccidentally being given or
finding information that wasmaybe not totally correct about
that person's availabilities,and that's why there's like
therapists are booked up formonths.
No, they aren't.
They have openings.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Oh God, yeah, yeah, yeah it's.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
That's slimy.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
It's slimy and we'll get deeper into this as we kind
of go on.
Oh no, so as far as far as uhkardash goes, kardash is no
longer.
Uh.
They were since national, uhsocial workers uh association
(20:20):
kind of mentioned about them andeverything like that.
I don't know if they got shutdown like by legal means, or if
they were just so if they maybeuh felt themselves to be in
danger yeah either way, it'ssuspicious yeah, so, uh, so I
(20:47):
mean care dash is no longer.
But so I was just curious and Ityped in my, or googled my name
and better help, lindsay, you'veknown me for 14 years, you old
(21:07):
fuck.
Hey.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Just you wait.
There's something coming foryou soon about that.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
You're old too.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
So you've known me for 14 years.
How good of a Christian wouldyou say that I am?
Speaker 2 (21:41):
On a scale of one to 10, I would say you are a 0.
Yeah, not a Christian, buddhistatheist or Buddhist agnostic.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I consider myself to be a Buddhist agnostic.
Okay, so like, I definitelybelieve in the philosophy of
Buddhism, even though I don'tfucking really practice it,
because one of the things is isI shouldn't be cursing but I say
fuck that, but I do believe inthe philosophy of it.
(22:17):
I it's just as far as thereligious aspect of things.
I consider myself to be atheist, agnostic, whatever.
When I looked myself up ongoogle christopher patchett,
better help I saw a website,faithorg oh no looking for a
(22:37):
christian therapist contactchristopher patchett oh, no,
yeah, I mean it's.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
It's funny because it didn't happen and, like you
know, this has been okay.
But I am imagining it likesomebody who is christian and is
like actually trying to lookfor this and if they ended up
with you, oh, nobody would behappy you know, and that's the
thing, is that okay, I, I willnever claim to be a christian,
(23:10):
uh, therapist, there's nothingwrong with it.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
You know, like absolutely I, I'm all for it.
If somebody is that, ifsomebody is has that strong of a
belief in Christianity, thenchances are they're going to
want to talk to somebody whoshares those same values and
(23:34):
those same, that's fair.
Yeah, so you know a hundredpercent.
I agree with you.
Know anybody who's listening,you know if, if that is your
thing, more power to you, that.
Uh, but faithorg I wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Oh no.
So I clicked on it and it tookme to BetterHelp Really yes, was
this when you still had yourBetterHelp page active, because
I know that you have stoppedworking for them.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Yeah, I know we're going to get into that.
Yeah, I mean, if you did thistoday, you would still see my
name.
And then my guess would be andagain this is 100% guessing that
the person would look me up.
They see faithorg, they go onto BetterHelp.
(24:34):
And again this is 100% guessingthat it would be the same thing
of well, christopher Patch iscompletely booked up right now.
Why don't you try?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
one of these other Christian therapists.
Although in this case thatwould be a good thing, this poor
soul who is looking forChristian therapy would not end
up with you.
Absolutely, I mean you know,and that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
But the thing is that hopefully they had let Better
help know that they were lookingfor a Christian therapist.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Well, yeah, cause if they're just like then saying,
oh, why don't you try thisperson, this person or that
person Clearly, if this isindeed the case, they haven't
done the background work.
To be like was the first personthe X, y, z that that person
like came in looking for, and sothen are these other people.
Because I would imagine onbetter help, like on your
profile, you had a way ofsetting, like what types of
(25:35):
therapy or specifics that you do.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Okay, and Christian therapy was not one of them.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Obviously, obviously.
Yeah, that doesn't bode, well,see we, we we, we take care of
problems that way.
There you go and then and thenalso with the the whole thing of
(26:02):
looking up my name Just ingeneral I also did see it was
health grade which actually hadmy profile from psychology today
.
When I worked for BetterHelp Ijust started doing private
(26:27):
practice therapy and I made aprofile on there.
I have a Psychology Todayprofile which I actually pay for
, and then the health grade.
I see they took the informationoff of my Psychology Today page
(26:48):
and same thing.
The moment that you go on thereyou read my profile and you say
, hey, I want to work with thisguy.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
And contact person and it will take you to better
help.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Interesting how every single site seems to lead to
BetterHelp.
It's suspicious.
I mean, we don't know ifBetterHelp is paying these
people and we're not going tomake that assumption.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
No, it's good to point out when things you know,
the math ain't math.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
And the math is not math in here.
Oh, I love it, do you?
And, and and on top of so, okay, so these were the, these were
the, the, the, the worst of theworst, of BetterHelp itself.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
So we're stealing people's private health
information and selling it toFacebook, and we are potentially
misdirecting people to othertherapists when they try and
look up someone specific.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
All right.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
That's pretty solidly shit.
So let's let's look at theiradvertising.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
So I hate their advertising.
I do not want to look at anymore of it.
Skip it whenever I see it oh mygod.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So yeah, I'm.
I would think by now you'veheard a better help, just just
for the fact that it has beenadvertised over and over again.
If you want to watch a youtubevideo, it seems like every
fucking yeah, oh my god, itnever ends podcasts, except for
(28:49):
this one, because, yeah, we willnever advertise for better help
.
We will never advertise forbetter help and I think after
this, uh, you know, we we'vekind of pulled away our um any
type of agreement with them.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, Uh.
So yeah, if you're listening tothis and all of a sudden you do
see that that this uh, you knowepisode gets pulled, better,
how probably offered us a fuckton of money, Billions we got it
After this we got to discusshow much we're willing to go for
.
Uh, so advertisementseverywhere, every fucking where.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
I want to know their advertising budget.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Well, so remember when I was saying about how they
got fined by the FTC?
Do you remember what thatnumber was?
Speaker 2 (29:49):
It's like seven something million, seven or
eight million.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah, 7.8 million.
Okay, so a loan in December of2023.
This is the same year that theygot that.
Fine, a loan One month.
And we're not talking aboutYouTube, we're not talking about
the money that was spent onInstagram, we're not.
(30:13):
This is just podcast loan.
Podcast One month $8 millionspent on advertisements.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Get out.
No wonder they're everywhere.
They literally are $8 millionin one month.
I mean, I know that podcastingis like a really big thing and
so, like there are tons ofpodcasts, you'd be hitting Damn.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
I mean, I'm sure I don't know this for a fact.
I'm sure I'm almost positivethat I did hear it on Joe Rogan.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
They're turning the freaking frogs gay.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
No, joe Rogan.
He's oh God, he was frogs gayman.
No, that's Alex Jones.
Oh, okay, I thought it was JoeRogan.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
He's, oh God he's.
He was Frog's gay man.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
No, that's Alex Jones .
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Oh, okay, joe Rogan was the one who.
Why are you listening to JoeRogan?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Oh God.
Well, so he's actually.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I swear to God if you say, well, I don't agree with
everything he says, but some ofthe stuff I am going to punch
you through the screen.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
No, I do not listen to Joe Rogan.
So he was the one who was doingthe whole thing of back in 2020
of vaccinations, and he was thereason why a lot of artists is
pulled away from Spotify.
Do you remember that wholething?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
I do yeah, Cause I know I think he is still the top
podcaster.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yeah, he, he's, but yeah, yeah, so he actually has
been sponsored by better help.
So I'm sure just you know,considering the fact that he
gets millions of listeners perday.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
That's true that that's going to.
A couple of those celebrityendorsements would cost you big,
but still 8 million just forpodcasts.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yeah.
And they also blanket YouTube,like there are multiple
YouTubers across differentgenres who I have seen who have
done better help advertisementsacross different genres, who I
have seen who have done betterhelp advertisements, you know,
and the thing is, is it's it'sliterally there for a while.
If we were only by productsbased on what we've seen on
youtube, I would have said likea year ago, the only things in
(32:32):
the world that exist are betterhelp and the become a lord by
buying the Scotland or Scottishpiece of land or whatever the
fuck that was.
Oh God.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
I didn't get that one .
I definitely got better, Ithink, cause well and out myself
here, I use an ad blocker for alot of YouTube videos, not for
all of them, but for for themost part when I watch.
So I only see the ads where theperson, the host, is reading it
out.
And those were the ones.
That was like you were gettingtons of better help.
Also, weird games, but you knowwhat I'll take the games.
(33:12):
I'll take June's Journey anyday over the better help one.
Please make it stop.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
No, and oh god, the uh, no, the uh, the scottish
lord thing that that was thesame thing where it was who's
being read out in the middle,yeah, you know, like right in
the middle, you know uh, andjust to give you a second, you
know to.
You know, let's bring you to oursponsor today, you know, and it
was uh, but yeah that it seemedlike there for for about a
(33:41):
month or two.
Those were like the only twothings that were ever like being
like advertised oh, I also gethello fresh a lot online, so
much hello fresh yeah, I've beenseeing that a little bit here.
So yeah, so in one month theywere able to.
They paid more for a podcastthan they did to selling off
(34:05):
information of.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
We can only we can only guesstimate, like tens,
probably hundreds of thousandsof people, probably even
millions I mean, you imagine,most people have facebook yeah
whether they use it actively ornot, and I think people don't
also don't realize that facebookhas the ability to track you
across other websites and suchtoo.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
So like facebook, then having this access on top
of all of that or like thatinformation going back and forth
, really really not good yeah,yeah, and then, and considering
the fact that that this was allgoing, that that whole thing was
going on during the whole likepandemic yeah, you were
definitely talking aboutmillions of people and again,
per person, per incident, very,very, very least I would get
(34:54):
$10,000, fine, after probablythe second, third, fourth, fifth
, billionth fucking uh timedoing it wrong.
It would probably be a hell ofa lot more.
Yeah, oh, so there's twoinfluencers that that I kind of
want to bring to to everybody'sattention.
(35:15):
So there is one influencer well, not an influencer.
He does little sketches on oninstagram, so he goes by the
name boston be a man, and it'svery, very tongue-in-cheek.
So I'm gonna play one of hisnormal little sketches If you
(35:40):
can't fix something chuck afucking wrench across the room.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Be a man.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
So okay, if you can't fix something, chuck a wrench
across the room.
Be a man Very tongue-in-cheek.
Hopefully people pick that upand realize that that's satire.
That itire that is again verytongue-in-cheek is not meant to
be real, and hopefully peopleare picking up that the other
(36:10):
guys in the room are laughing,which is scary within itself
yeah, personally I look at thattype of thing.
It's like no jokes here so thatwas, that was b-man.
Uh, that, that's his normal gigokay I want to now so shit,
(36:33):
boomer jokes yeah, pretty muchOkay, so I'm going to play for
you his advertisement for BetterHelp.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Okay, Sad don't be.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Be a man.
So do you hear that Sad, don'tbe Be a man?
And then it says underneath itbetter help right, I just, I
just won't be sad, then right,but then I wouldn't need better
help, right so I mean it's oh,my god, it's okay, uh, again,
you know, if you realize thatit's tongue-in-cheek, that it's
(37:19):
sarcasm or it's satire, then thefact that BetterHelp quickly
comes up on the screen, get helpwith BetterHelp at the very end
.
I mean, if they are picking outthat it is tongue-in-cheek,
(37:41):
that's not going to look likeit's uh, real or meaningful,
like no, you also have notconvinced me that this is like a
trustworthy.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
If this is how you advertise and obviously I'm
clearly not the target audience,I fully acknowledge that.
But I'm just saying like if Iran across that video I'd be
like what is this like?
Speaker 1 (38:02):
this doesn't seem legit yeah, and and then, if you
, I guess it isn't so and if youdon't pick it up, that it's
satire the fact that that betterhelp is promote or being
promoted through.
If you're feeling sad, throw awrench, like as a therapist like
(38:27):
I, I I would never send thatmixed message.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
That, um no because people you know a lot of jokes
and and stereotypes and stufflike that.
The reason they're funny isthat there's an element of truth
to them to a certain extent,and so people tell that joke is
like a ha ha, this is what youshould do.
It's not funny, though, becausepeople actually do do it, and
it's not cool to be in thatsituation where you have a
(38:55):
partner who's like threateningviolence to you.
It's you can try and like, putit like oh, this is, this is
funny, this is a joke.
Who's like threatening violenceto you.
It's you can try and like putit as like oh, this is, this is
funny, this is a joke.
It's not a joke.
We don't joke about that.
It's a lot of stuff we can jokeabout.
Yeah, not this.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
So then and then there, there's another
influencer that I.
I actually really respected herup until the fact that I saw
her promoting for BetterHelp.
So she has her doctorate.
She is a mental healthprofessional.
(39:32):
She goes by the name TruthDoctor, doctor, she herself.
She has overcome borderlinepersonality disorder, which is a
very difficult disorder to have.
So the fact that she's beenable to overcome it and the fact
that she is promoting awarenessfor it, bravo.
(39:55):
And again, I followed her.
I thought that she was prettyamazing.
But the thing that as soon as Istarted seeing her having
advertisements for BetterHelpbut as a mental health
professional, I would hope thatsomebody would actually do a
(40:21):
little bit of research because,again, this is not like brand
new things that have been goingon.
We go back to, like I said,2017 that it came out.
You didn't even have to be alicensed therapist at the time.
We see that the NSWA has kindof called better help out on
(40:43):
that as well.
You see that the FTC has calledout better help on that.
I personally would not want topromote something like that,
seeing that, again, the ftcruling, that was only two years
(41:03):
ago.
I would like to see a lot moretime, especially when you're
talking about hipaa violationsthere's also the fact that this
is your field, like I get it.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
You're a diy youtuber and better help comes to you
and it's like hey, I'll give youthis money if you promote me.
Right, you're not going to lookinto it as much, it's not what
you do.
So I have a little bit moregrace for that type of person
who's like eh, okay, withinreason, of course, but for
somebody like this, I'm like youshould have been far more aware
(41:36):
of what was going on and youabsolutely should have looked
into and you should be lookinginto any company who sponsors
you.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Right.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
I do expect that.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
And the thing is, you know, so she has a huge
following on TikTok andInstagram and things like that,
so she is making money throughboth of those platforms.
Through both of those platformsshe also does a podcast, which
I don't know how big that is,but she may or may not be
getting revenue through there.
She's so.
She's also a doctorate inpsychology, so I'm sure she's
(42:12):
seeing clients on a one-on-onebasis and she's getting plenty
of revenue through there.
I've seen her advertising herown program of, you know, like
hey, like let's venture off, andand you know, we're going to go
here and then we're going tolearn more about this, and it
was, I mean, way out of my pricerange.
But I'm guessing and and againthis, I don't have anything to
(42:38):
prove it that she is making somerevenue off of that trip.
So I mean, you know, it's notthat she's a starving fresh out
of college thrown into the field.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Struggling to survive , taking anything she can get,
exactly.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
You know she's very subtle.
She's been doing this for years.
Exactly, you know she's verysubtle, she's been doing this
for years.
She's, I'm sure, making verywell, at least a good living,
and she's promoting this, soit's.
I think that is veryirresponsible, considering the
(43:17):
fact that she should A what'sgoing to what better help has
done and what better help does,not only to the therapist, but
also what they do with the, theclients, and how, how.
That is dangerous for bothsides, and we'll definitely talk
(43:45):
about that next week.
Speaker 2 (43:46):
You're going to leave us on the cliffhanger.
There is so much shit on betterhelp that we have to do two
parts.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yes, yes, indeed, I am shot.
So I there there.
There is a lot of things, thatthat there are problems as far
as the way that better help isat least to me as a therapist
and and again, we're gonna haveto do the whole allegedly and
(44:13):
everything like that, because,um, we don't want a letter of
cease and desist that they arevery, very, very well known for,
and then also how it is verydamaging for the most important
person, which is the clientsthemselves.
And we'll also do where do wego from here?
(44:38):
And we'll rate BetterHelp onour tale of toxicity next week.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
I already know what I'm going to rate them Spoiler.
Green potato Of course Half agreen potato.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
So join us next week when I go into further details
of how this is very damaging.
Follow us on.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
We've got Facebook, instagram and Blue Sky are the
sort of active ones.
They will be active.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
And you can always contact us at toxic at awesome
life skillscom, and lookingforward to seeing you next week.
My name is Christopher Patchett.
I am LCSW.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
And I've been Lindsay McLean.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Bye.
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