January 21, 2025 • 45 mins
Discover the surprising truth behind commonly misused mental health terms and unlock a new level of understanding. On this episode of the Toxic Cookie Show, we unravel the confusion surrounding words like "trauma," "OCD," and "PTSD" that have slipped into everyday chatter. These terms carry weighty clinical definitions from the DSM-5, often overshadowed by casual usage. We shed light on why calling a breakup "trauma" could be more harmful than helpful, and how genuine experiences of trauma are far from the ordinary challenges we face.
Join us as we dig into the world of mental health diagnoses, where misdiagnosis can lead to a maze of identity and treatment issues. Through personal stories, we highlight the tricky overlap between conditions like borderline personality disorder and depression, where similar symptoms can mislead even the best intentions. The temptation of self-diagnosis lurks online, offering quick but misguided labels that could fuel unnecessary anxiety. We emphasize the importance of professional diagnosis, pointing out potential life-altering consequences such as career limitations.
Finally, we address a growing problem: the internet's distortion of mental health conditions. From oversimplifying ADHD to trivializing OCD, the online portrayal often misses the mark. We underscore the risks of self-diagnosis and the potential harm in belittling serious conditions. By sharing personal anecdotes, we stress the necessity of professional help and advocate for thoughtful conversations about mental health. Tune in to understand the profound impact of words and the importance of accurate mental health discourse.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cookie Show, where we
break down toxic people to theirsimplest ingredients.
I'm your host, christopherPatchett LCSW.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And I'm Lindsay McLean.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Last week we talked about therapy speak.
We talked about people who usewords, boundaries, trigger,
warning and trauma and howthey're using it, completely
wrong, of course.
So I wanted to kind of takethis to the next level.
(00:49):
We left off last week and thisis kind of where we were kind of
talking about like trauma andpeople who say the words like
you know, like oh my God, likeJohnny football player, like
dumped me and you know I got somuch trauma from that it was so
traumatic I don't know if I'mever gonna be able to date again
(01:09):
.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
It's just like no, that's, or even worse, the
people who are just like, oh, mygod, this is, it's like so
traumatic.
Doing xyz and xyz is the mostnormal thing ever, but it's just
like, oh, this one time I wentand the server like didn't,
didn't give me something.
They put cilantro in my food.
I'm somebody who unfortunatelyhas the soap tasting cilantro
(01:33):
gene, which means that you know,it's that shit tastes
disgusting to me.
I always wondered why peopleliked it.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I was like, oh, but yeah, I've seen people use it
that way to me, like it was sotraumatic we, we left off with
people who use the, the wordtrigger, or the the words like
trauma and everything like thatand, as I was kind of saying
before, where if somebody hadgone through a relationship
where they were being lied toand now they're having like
(02:05):
episodes where they're in a newrelationship and they're
constantly fearing that the newperson is going to lie and
they're constantly looking forthat lie.
They're constantly trying tofigure out, like you know, like
listening to every single wordand saying, oh, that word didn't
match that one, so thereforeyou're lying.
Yes, okay, you're experiencinghypervigilance.
(02:25):
However, just havinghypervigilance alone does not
give you that traumaticexperience.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
No, because I imagine that for most diagnoses kind of
like when you get sick thereare multiple things that you
have to have for it to be XYZdisease.
It's very rarely just one thing.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Right based by diagnosis via the DSM, the
Diagnostic and StatisticalManual of Mental Disorders.
Fifth edition, tr.
When are they coming out withthe sixth one?
Well, they just came out withthe TR revision, so the fifth
(03:21):
one came out in 2012.
This one came out, I want tosay 2022.
I'm not going to look for thecopyright on this Not worth it
oh God, fucking MMXX.
(03:42):
Yeah, fuck off.
But yeah, you know, like youkind of hear people saying the
words, like you know, like, ohmy god, you know, like I I've
you know ptsd because I was liedto in my last relationship and
it's just like no, no, you donot.
So just going off of thedefinition of trauma itself
(04:05):
According to the DSMpost-traumatic stress disorder,
trauma itself is defined asexposure to actual or
threatening death, seriousinjuries or sexual violence in
one or more of the followingways.
So just off of that this iskind of why the DSM is the way
(04:27):
it is is there is a very cleardefinition of what trauma is,
and so then there's the it saysyou know it has to be
experienced in a certain manner.
One of the things is is if youexperience it within yourself or
(04:47):
if you're experiencing it firstresponders.
So, like you know, like a lotof people who go into buildings
where there's a lot of death orsomething like that, they're
able to experience like traumain that respect, somebody who
heard about it through somebodythat a loved one, so you mean
seeing it on the internet, viacarousel on instagram, of
(05:13):
somebody talking about theirtrauma?
that can't give me trauma no,because actually that that's uh.
So the uh fourth way is uhwitnessing in person the events
as it occurs.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, that all makes sense to me.
It's got to be very real andtangible to you.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Right, right, playing Call of Duty is not going to be
the thing that causes trauma.
No, at least according to theDSM, which, again, this is what
I am actually following theguidelines of.
A lot of times you'll hearpeople saying I have PTSD from a
(05:57):
bad breakup.
Well, okay, first off, you'renot even matching the first
qualification of PTSD, like, letalone, all the other things,
All the others yeah, so rightthere, that within itself, no,
you might be experiencing likedepression or sadness or things
(06:19):
like that, but you are notexperiencing trauma.
And then, on top of that, isthat?
So you know, just as I said,find what trauma?
Is it defined?
Who is able to experience this?
and then there's other thingswhere it it includes that you
have to experience one type oflike, uh, intrusive thoughts
(06:42):
okay and then it breaks downwhat exactly an intrusive
thought is and then again, justlike as the first part, then it
kind of gives different waysthat an intrusive thought can
happen.
The thing is is that it's notjust when you say like
post-traumatic stress disorder.
You know, it's not just of onesentence definition.
(07:05):
Yeah.
No, there are.
There are different, differentare.
There's the definition of whatthis is.
There is definitions of youknow what this is and how many
of these things you have toexperience in order to be able
to say that, yes, this is, youknow, ptsd and kind of thinking
of it like the user agreementsthat we all read so thoroughly.
(07:29):
Of course, you know, like you,you read, you know probably the,
the first, like you know,everybody's at one point said
you know what I, I really wantto know what's in this and you
know they, they try to read itand most of us will get to like
the third paragraph.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, and then you look at the little like how much
you have left, and you're likenah, but like we'll, we'll see
at the very beginning.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Like you know, this is how you, the user, and, and
and it's defining exactly whatthose words mean.
So this way, somebody whofinding a loophole of certain
words, so they definitely haveto define it in a very strict
manner.
(08:16):
So this way to close up anyloopholes.
Yep.
Same thing with the DSM is thatwe have like a very strict way
of diagnosing somebody thatisn't like oh yeah, you went
through like a horrible time.
Yeah, it was really scary.
Yeah, and the thing is, is thatokay, even in incidents where
(08:42):
somebody did go throughsomething extremely traumatizing
?
Okay, you experienced atraumatic event, you've covered
one part of it.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, you still have to have all the other follow-up.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, because the thing is again, we're all
completely different.
So somebody might have gonethrough an act of war and they
say to themselves they come backhome, they're completely fine,
they were able to separate thatwartime was wartime, Hometime is
(09:20):
hometown.
I mean, it's going to affectyou somewhat, you know, no
matter what, but you know itmight not be post-traumatic
stress disorder.
Yeah.
Because just experiencingtrauma itself is only one of the
many categories.
(09:41):
The same thing with this is onethat I hear so many fucking
times you're going to talk aboutocd.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yes, yes, yes, holy shit, yes I just like my socks
to be organized.
I have a little ocd yes, oh, mygod.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
And the thing is is that, okay, you know people?
Oh, you like your desk clean?
You have such ocd.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I like to organize my books this way.
I know it's a little ocd.
It's always like a cutesy thing.
That's the thing that gets metoo is it's like a little teehee
.
I just like it this way.
I'm a little.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, you know and again you know.
Okay, so being like extremelyanal about something is only one
of the things.
Yeah.
And the thing is is that peopledon't recognize all the other
things that kind of go into OCD,that what we see on TV, you
(10:52):
know, like the, the rituals, isonly a part of it, and and a lot
of times you can have OCDwithout having the virtual
itself.
But again, you know, like justhaving a neat desk is not OCD.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Liking things.
Organized is not OCD.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
There's a I won't share it here, but there was a
story my mom shared with us wayback in the day of a way, way,
way, way way old patient of herswho had OCD and hearing this
story, I mean it ruined thisman's life.
That was the thing.
Is you looked at like it wasn'ta cutesy?
I like to touch the door fivetimes.
It was.
He was spending hours a day onthis because he could not stop,
(11:40):
like he would start the thingand if anything got messed up
along the way he would have torestart it and so he couldn't
hold down a job.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
He couldn't do anything normal in life because
he was spending hours on right,right and, and then I'm
definitely gonna go into that alittle bit more later on, but
you know and and that's thething is like, okay, having an
organized desk is not ocd, but,like you know, and this is kind
of the thing, is that somebodywho does truly have ocd they're
(12:11):
gonna a nice, neat desk and onepiece of dirt that's on that
desk, oh shit.
Yeah, now I have to clean outthe entire um, the desk and the
floor that you know, maybesomething like you know dropped
on there and now the walls andnow like the cupboards now,
because it's not just a desk andnow like the cupboards now,
(12:32):
because it's not just a desk Now.
I see the entire room from topto bottom has to have like an
absolute, like cleanup.
Yeah, you know that cutesy likeum, oh, I have OCD, you know is
it's?
Yeah, you know you're not.
You're not even beginning.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
You have not scratched the surface.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, you have not.
You're not even beginning, youhave not scratched the surface.
Yeah, you have not.
You have not scratched thesurface.
And the thing is is that alsowith OCD?
Is that, and a lot of peopledon't realize this, is that it's
intrusive thoughts?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
I was just about to ask about that.
Yeah, go on.
I was just about to ask aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, go on.
So the rituals themselves iskind of the outcome of the
intrusive thoughts, and anintrusive thoughts could be
(13:32):
anything along the lines of ifthere's a piece of dirt on the
desk and I'm breathing innothing but like dirt, so
therefore I need to make surethat I rid the entire like room
that I'm in of any possible dirt.
Other intrusive thoughts couldbe along the lines of where if,
if I am driving and I have mywindow down, I am going to get
(13:55):
into an accident, okay, we allkind of have thoughts like that,
but the difference is is thatsomebody who has OCD is going to
have, like you know, like thisis life threatening.
Yeah, I remember, I rememberone of the things I used to do,
(14:16):
like back in my 20s, is I kindof had one of those things where
, like you know, like if I waswalking and the whole like step
on the crack type thing.
Oh yeah.
And the thing was is I would doit without even recognizing it.
And it was funny because Iactually had a friend who was
like dude, are you trying toavoid the cracks?
(14:37):
And I was like, and thenfinally it caught on.
I was like, oh shit, like yeah,I am, and what I would end up
having to do is I would actuallystep on the crack just to kind
of be able to be like, okay, youknow, like I did it, I don't
have to.
But the thing is, is that okay?
Yeah, was what I was doing kindof awkward or weird or
(15:00):
something like that?
Was I kind of going out of myway to make sure I didn't step
on a crack?
Yeah, do I have a OCD?
No, because if I would, youknow, like I said, to kind of
get myself out of my head, Istep on a crack.
(15:22):
There we go.
It's already done.
You know I can move on with myday.
Yeah, somebody with OCD there,that is a life threatening thing
.
You know, step on a crack,break your mother's back.
That is a true like.
That is an absolute belief,just as a kid believes Santa
Claus is real.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Santa is real.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
You have, you have.
You know things like that,People who use the word
depressed.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Oh, I'm feeling so depressed?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
no, you're not.
You had a couple bad days yeahI mean there are again there are
certain definitions of how longyou're or how long you've had
these type of thoughts.
What is actual depression?
Yeah.
What are the events that causedit?
(16:18):
What are the onset of when itstarted?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Out of curiosity, what does the DSM say for
depression?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
So, according to the DSM, you have to be able to
match with five or more symptomsin a two-week time period, so
you have to be able to displaythoughts and things like that.
Yeah, you know, like if youjust had a really bad day you
(16:49):
might display like five of them.
Yeah.
But it doesn't mean that you'reyou're a major depressive
disorder, you're having a reallyshitty day.
And the thing is also with,like all these diagnosis, is
that there are different levelsof this.
So, like, major depressivedisorder is going to be
(17:11):
different than depression itself, there's going to be different
levels.
Two weeks, I just kind of saidabout, that's for MDD, which is
major depressed disorder, andagain we have to make sure that
the client or the person thatwe're working with fits within
(17:33):
this category.
So one of the reasons why is alot of times some of those
things are going to follow youaround and just to kind of give
you an example, is I can tellyou from my own experience and I
(17:56):
had to go through a lot of shitto get this taken off but I was
at one point diagnosed withborderline personality disorder
and the thing is is becausethere are a lot of similar
traits.
So one of the things that Ishowed was, you know, isolation,
(18:19):
the fact of wanting to bearound other people, but you
know, kind of isolating myself.
Okay, that's going to be truein, you know, borderline
personality disorder, but alsothat's going to be true in
depression.
Yeah, borderline personalitydisorder, but also that's going
to be true in depression.
Yeah, you know, and and thething is is that I'm not going
(18:40):
to call the doctor out by name,but you know, there was maybe
five of us that were dischargedfrom the military for having
borderline personality disorder.
Borderline personality disorder, in all facts, is not going to
be that common of a thing.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, I was going to say that feels like a lot to
have it once within a smallgroup relative to the whole
population as a whole.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
That's a lot, and so you know again, that is why it's
very important because, know,if my insurance were to pick up
on that, or the fact that, uh,my discharge, and at the time I
I didn't think anything aboutthis because I was in my early
20s, I didn't know anythingabout like mental, mental
(19:25):
disorders.
So I was like, okay, doctorknows what he's doing.
I'm just gonna like go with thedoctor and you know, when I
first went to the VA, being ableto continue with psychiatric
services, the doctor there waslike, okay, I can tell you flat
(19:45):
off, flat out, I would haveknown if you had a borderline
personality disorder within thefirst 10 minutes.
You do not have borderlinepersonality disorder and I mean,
again, you know like that'sgoing to affect, like you know,
like you know that's why it isvery precise in the DSM is
(20:05):
because that is going to beaffecting the way that the other
person feels.
Yeah, and the thing is is thatI never heard of a borderline
personality disorder prior tothis happening.
And the thing is is that once Igot the diagnosis, I looked
online and we all know how goodthe internet is.
(20:27):
Oh, yeah, always truthful,always truthful.
Yeah, again, I, I didn'trealize what I know about mental
disorders at the time and Ilooked at probably wikipedia if
that was around or somethinglike that at the time and I was
like, yeah, you know, I can kindof see how this, you know like,
(20:48):
would fit me.
Yeah, this I could kind of see,and, and the thing is, is that
there is a difference between,yeah, it could kind of, but no,
if you actually look at thesedefinitions, it's going to.
It's going to affect the waythat I treat my treatment plans,
it's going to affect the waythat I work with the client and
(21:11):
things like that.
It's also going to affect theway that the client sees
themselves, because, again, I'mnot the first one, nor am I
going to be the last one, whosaid, oh wow, here's a new
diagnosis.
Instead of really talking to mydoctor about it, I'm going to
ask Dr Wikipedia.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, yeah, the doctor said it, so it must be
true.
I mean, we would like to allbelieve that because you know
paying them all of our money.
But yeah, I mean I'm sure thereare tons of people who do just
kind of like sure, this is menow.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Why wouldn't it be?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
And that's the thing is that these diagnosis like if
I were to accidentally diagnosesomebody with a borderline
personality disorder and let'ssay that they are, I don't know,
25, I might have ruined thatperson's chance of going into
the military as opposed to theyhave slight depression, yeah,
(22:15):
mild depression or somethinglike that where, okay, you know
what, you have mild depression.
Get a waiver from apsychiatrist saying that that
was one episode and that youknow you're not prone for this
happening again.
But this was single episode.
No, we'll let you into themilitary.
Yeah.
Borderline personality disorder.
It's a personality, apersonality disorder yeah, you
(22:37):
ain't coming in so you know thatthat's kind of the thing is
that again, you really have tobe careful of the way you know,
like the way that I diagnosesomebody because it is going to
affect their lives, and justlike me being careful the the
way, like you know, I diagnosedsomebody the way they diagnose
themselves.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I thought Dr Instagram was always on my side
with truthful information,helpful links that definitely
aren't scams to take thesesupplements.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
And and and you kind of you of you covered this last
week and I do want to bring thisup again.
You know, and we see all thetime on Instagram and things
like that you know, do you haveTX arms?
You know like, do you like togo to sleep like this?
Speaker 2 (23:28):
You must have.
There's this like bucket listof all these possible like
horrific things.
Sometimes you know how you goon webmd when you're you've got
like a couple symptoms andcancer is always on and I get it
.
I get why it's on there, becauseit's just picking up these,
like you've said, these sixsymptoms, technically, this type
(23:50):
of cancer.
You know it's got a whole bunchof other symptoms too, but
these six symptoms, like, are apart of that.
I feel like sometimes thesepeople have just done that,
where it's like every possiblething that might be somewhat
related but there's noadditional information about
like.
Here's what's definitelyrelated, here's what's a little
(24:11):
bit related and here's what'slike very, very tangentially
related, very, very tangentiallyrelated.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
It's definitely going to affect the way that the
person goes in for treatment andthings like that it's hard as a
therapist, how many times thatI've had a new client coming
into my first session and youknow I'll say like you know,
like, you know like, so you knowwhat brings you in.
Well, you know, um, I, I haveadhd, okay, cool.
(24:46):
Like, uh, you know were you,were you formally diagnosed?
Like you know, like, uh, no, Isaw on instagram.
Like you know, like, if I'mlike oh fuck oh, my god, this
this is our favorite catchphrase.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
A future episode that I want to do, maybe sooner
rather than later, but aboutthat specifically ADHD and
autism that there is so muchrandom crap on the internet
about them that you very quicklybecome inundated with it.
Like, if you watch two videos,you're just like you're
constantly receiving more andthe stuff that people are
(25:24):
listing is, you know, and maybeit's true, maybe, maybe it's
absolutely true that, like, ifyou like sour candy, that you're
more likely to like really sourthings if you have adhd.
As far as I know, that has notbeen proven.
Correct me if I'm wrong on that?
no, I don't know well theinternet has told me that if you
(25:47):
like sour candy, you have adhd.
So you know, hard fact rightthere I actually.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I just saw one, maybe a day or two ago, and it was um
are you addicted to porn?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
you have adhd and it's just like, like, no, like,
no I mean, and this is, oh, thisis we'll get into it later, but
I want to touch on it nowbecause it's such a sore point
for me.
The way stuff is framed on theinternet is what just pisses me
(26:27):
off so much.
Again, it's this framing of.
It's an absolute that if you door like X, you have Y.
As opposed to saying.
As opposed to saying hey, theremay be some correlations
between people who have ADHD aremore likely to become addicted
to things.
They have that addictivepersonality, and so if you
(26:51):
actually have ADHD, you may bemore likely than the general
population to experience this,but it's never framed that way.
It's just hey, do you likelistening to the same song over
and over again?
Adhd I think a lot of peoplelike that, and that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Is that like if?
If somebody's coming into myoffice for the first time and
they're adamant about havingADHD because of what they saw
online, I, as a therapist, youknow I will try to talk to them.
You know I will never.
You know, I wouldn't give themthe formal diagnosis.
(27:32):
Well, first off, I really can't, because any neurological
disorders has to be diagnosed bya doctor.
Yeah, but even if somebody wereto come in and say, like I have
a major depressive disorder andtheir girlfriend broke up with
them a week ago and they've beendepressed for the past week,
(27:52):
okay, you know, no, because theDSM says these symptoms have to
be there for at least two weeks,I might say something like the
good old handy adjustmentdisorder at first.
And if the person, like you know, like the next week, they might
come in and say, like you know,like, yeah, you know, like I
(28:14):
really kind of sat there and Ireally thought about things and
you know, I started hanging outwith.
I really kind of sat there andI really thought about things
and, and you know, I startedhanging out with friends, I'm
starting to feel better.
Okay, you know, like, let's gowith that.
But if I, if I'm sitting thereand trying to work with somebody
by using tools that I would forsomebody with adh when they
just have a porn addiction?
(28:35):
Yeah, it's not something.
I'm going to have two completelydifferent treatment plans based
off of that, but what if theyhave a porn addiction and they
like sour candy?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Then that's double ADHD.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
The last thing I really do want to kind of touch
on this is the dangers of thisand the reason why we talked
about how people might hear thisdiagnosis and then they'll
they'll kind of go intoWikipedia and shit like that and
really kind of take on that,that diagnosis.
The thing is is that it alsoreally softens the blow of what
(29:16):
these diagnoses are.
Because, just as I was kind ofsaying before about ocd you know
we were both saying about thisis that you know you having a
clean desk, you spending 10 or10 minutes a day, you know
making sure that your desk isorganized, you don't have ocd
and you don't realize the shitthat you know, as you were kind
(29:37):
of saying, the person whose lifeis completely ruined because
the stream of their OCD.
You're not talking about a 10minute cleanup.
Again, you are talking from topto bottom.
You're bleaching things, peoplewho I've heard stories of
(29:58):
people with such raw skinbecause they have to sit there
yeah.
And the effect that it has onsomebody who does have this
actual diagnosis, somebody withPTSD who can't even go to a
restaurant unless they aresitting against a wall because
(30:20):
they are so hypervigilant thatthey do not feel safe in any
public setting and it's hard forthem between the car to the
restaurant itself becausethere's a wide open space that
they're living in a very,extremely harsh life.
Now there is treatment for forthese things, you know, is not
(30:44):
the ruin of their life oranything like that.
But the thing is is that evenfor a time period of six months
a year, some people I mean Ican't tell you how many Vietnam
veterans that I had seen thathave gone through this for 30
years of their lives or more and, you know, really had a
(31:06):
horrible time that they weren'table to enjoy time with their
family because the intrusivethoughts are so bad that they're
constantly having to work onChristmas, because if they have
time to settle down, their mindstarts racing onto traumatic
events that happened in the past.
(31:27):
Yeah.
That's kind of the thing is thatOCD, ptsd, these things are not
like these cutesy like you know, like instagram cutesy type
things.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
But I always picture it with the um, like little
pastel background and the kindof like a little bit of a curly
font.
There may be some flowers onthere.
That's what I associate with.
These was just like makes iteven worse.
It's like you're giving, it'slike it's cutesy, it's calm,
it's cute.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Look, we're trying to talk about it, and then it's
just filled with falseinformation yeah no and, and
that's the thing is that youknow like it definitely needs to
be out there.
You know and, and you know thisis one of the the you know
reasons why, like you know likesomething like this, where being
(32:16):
able to hear, like you knowlike what exactly you know.
Like you know like somethinglike this, where being able to
hear, like you know like whatexactly you know happens and you
know like, yes, if you arefeeling like that you've gone
through a traumatic event, cool,see a therapist.
Yeah.
If you do feel that the breakupwith Johnny football player was
a traumatic event.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
And you just cannot get past it.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, see a therapist , but don't give yourself that
label yet.
Yeah.
So, with that being said, wheredo you think we should go from
here?
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I mean, our longtime favorite education got to edify
the peoples.
That's what this stuff means.
And I think for this type ofthing, for actual diagnoses as
opposed to therapy speak, it isall the more important to
actually call people out and belike that is incorrect, like
(33:18):
right here, what you're saying,like even if it's just calling
somebody out in the moment andthey're like hi, I'm just a
little OCD.
It's like with racism We'vetalked about this before they
can be really uncomfortable.
So just call someone out and belike that is really
inappropriate to say Don't do it, and it kills the mood, and
then you know nobody wants tohang out with you, blah, blah,
blah.
But and it kills the mood, andthen you know nobody wants to
(33:43):
hang out with you, blah, blah,blah.
But I think that it should becalling people out, like if you
are hanging out with a group ofpeople and somebody does kind of
make a little comment aboutlike oh yeah, you know, I'm just
a little OCD, say something,just point at me, like that's
not actually what that means, doyou know?
Like, do you know that is avery real diagnosis that has
very, very real effects onsomebody's life in a negative
way this is not fun and games.
(34:05):
this is not cutesy, like maybedon't refer to and we're all
guilty of it.
You know we've all done it likeit used to be a thing.
I get it.
There's no need to punishyourself for that now, but do
better and when you see otherpeople who haven't learned that,
call them out.
I honestly I wish that therewould be maybe some more.
(34:26):
You know, social media is adouble-edged sword, because on
the one hand, I appreciate thatwe're putting information out
about these things, cause Ithink that there are times that
people will see this and we'llget into this at some point,
that you may see something andyou're like, oh shit, that's me.
I didn't realize that this wasa thing.
You know, I've beenexperiencing this my whole life
(34:47):
and I never had a word for itbecause I just thought it was
normal, I thought it was a meproblem.
And now I realize that, likethere's a name for it and I can
get help for this thing that Ihave or that I'm experiencing,
and so I don't want to say like,oh, we should never post about
it on the internet, because thatis absolutely not true.
But I would love to see peoplepost less, maybe unless you have
(35:10):
really gone through it, likeunless you are somebody who has
actually been diagnosed withsomething, or unless you were a
qualified and ethical therapistyou know.
I'd love to see that kind of goaway to decrease the amount of
fluffified information, if I may, where it's stuff that, like it
(35:33):
may be true, there may be likea base of truth somewhere deep
in there, but you've just likepuffed it up beyond recognition
to create something that's likeexciting and cool and, like you
know, a list of 10 things thatpeople with OCD do, a list of 10
things like that ADHD.
(35:53):
Again, it was just like kind ofrandom stuff and maybe it's
true, maybe it's not, but it'svery easy for anyone to see
themselves within that Be likeit's me.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
I have OCD, I don't I , so I don't want to say educate
ourselves, because that's kindof the thing that got us here.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
We were trying to educate ourselves and we
miseducated.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I think that.
So there is a reason why I donot work on my car.
Yeah, and there is a reason whyI will not work on somebody
else's car.
If you want to lose a car, thequickest way to lose a car is
(36:47):
asking me to work on it if youwant to lose your plants, the
quickest way is to ask patchesto water them yeah, there,
there's a reason why I I don'twork on my car or work on other
people's cars is because I don'tknow shit about cars.
Yeah, somebody you know might Imight be in the car with
somebody and they're like, hey,do you hear a noise?
(37:09):
And I'm like, yeah, maybe youshould get get that checked out.
Okay, we know that there's aproblem.
Let's take it to a mechanic andlet's have the mechanic
actually say what the problem is.
And that's the same thing withthis.
Is that okay?
If there are things that aregoing on in your life that
(37:30):
you're having a hard time with,and everything like that, okay,
you're recognizing the problem.
Or a friend might be able tosay, hey, it sounds like you're
really having a hard time inlife, like, maybe you should see
somebody, but it's not up tothe friend to be like, hey,
(37:50):
you're, you're fucking, you know, really depressed.
Like, no, you know, your friendfriend is not, is not a mental
health provider they're not yourmental health provider I hope
anyway oh my god, yes, I, I'veyou know.
(38:15):
So just just for the audienceout there, please, please,
please.
Anybody who works in any typeof healthcare.
I've heard stories from nursesas well, like you know.
Oh, you're a nurse.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Check this out.
I have a big I have.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
I have a big thing on my fucking chest, you know,
check it out and it's like dude.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
No we're not on the clock, like we're not here
trying to live my life.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
I don't want to look at your butt and and, yeah, same
thing, like you know, like I'mthere is.
There is a difference betweenme talking to you as a friend,
as a person, for an hour versusme talking to somebody for an
hour in an office setting.
Yeah, you know, I'm not lookingto diagnose you, so therefore
(39:05):
do not ask, like you know, likehey, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, because I will tell youthe same thing is go see
somebody.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
And not me.
I don't want to know yourlife's problems and not me.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
I don't want to know your life's problems.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
So so yeah, I think that you know partial education
and ideally I will say maybe, ifpossible, avoid greater
assistance.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yep, that is definitely a episode that will a
hard time.
You should do that.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
You should not go to Dr Instagram or Dr TikTok.
Those are fake doctorates.
They were plagiarized andwritten by AI.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
So, with that being said, where would you put this
on our scale of toxicity?
Would you say that this is agreen potato where you can just
shave off the green and eat therest?
Is this a death cap mushroomwhere it's a 50-50 shot of dying
from it?
Or is it antifreeze?
A delightful last meal lastmeal.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
I am going to say that this, in particular,
misdiagnosing people ordiagnosing yourself from random
crap that you've seen online,just use misusing actual terms
like this I would say that thisis actually antifreeze.
I know we said said death cap,like low death cap for therapy
speak, and while these two arevery, very similar which is why
we decided to do them back toback that to me has much less of
(41:09):
a potential negative effect onyour life and the people's lives
around you versus you knowagain, somebody who has actual
OCD or actual PTSD and who maybeis now not receiving the care
you know, because we had a timewhen, like, these things didn't
(41:30):
exist and it's just you makingthis shit up in your head, like
get back to work.
And then we were like, oh hey,maybe, maybe there are problems
here that we should address sothat people can live happy,
fulfilled lives.
And now I feel like we're kindof coming back up the other side
.
It's like, because everyone hasit now it doesn't mean anything
, and so it means that somebodywho has actually experienced
(41:51):
such stress that they have ptsdis now being lumped potentially
into the same category assomebody who had a super sad,
bad day, and that's not helpfulfor either of them, and it
potentially means that theperson who has real PTSD is now
mocked and shamed for whatthey're going through and the
way that they act, and theydon't receive the care, and so
(42:13):
we're right back to step one ofpeople who spend decades of
their lives traumatized realtraumatized.
I think it can have really,really, really negative effects.
It doesn't always, of course,but it has such a high potential
that I think we really need tobe careful to stop completely
(42:36):
misusing terms like real hard,clinical terms in places that
they just don't need to be.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Yeah, I mean yeah, I would say, you said it perfectly
, I agree, I think that this isdefinitely an antifreeze.
Where again, no, I agree, Ithink that this is definitely an
(43:23):
antifreeze.
Where again you on Instagramand is viewing out, most people
are going to be like that'sreally, you're traumatized by
that.
And then again somebody whoactually has gone through drama
they're picking up that.
Well, I've seen on Instagram,they're picking up that.
(43:46):
Well, I've seen on Instagram 20people who are traumatized by a
breakup or something like that.
And here comes, you're notreally that traumatized.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yeah, everyone's a little traumatized this day.
Absolutely the fuck.
Not that phrase.
Everyone's a little XYZ, I meanfor many reasons, but also I
mean just goes to show that likeit's been so overused that that
person who says that has seenit everywhere.
And so now, when somebody whodoes come to them, who really
(44:11):
does have ADHD, autism, ptsd,ocd, any of these things,
they're just like, just likewhatevs.
Everyone's a little bit this,everyone has it these days.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
They shouldn't if you have any stories, please feel
free to write us at toxic atawesome life skillscom.
Follow us on our social mediaFacebook, instagram, twitter,
tiktok and threads and if youlike this episode, please give
(44:45):
us a five star.
It really helps us getourselves out there and
everything like that.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Also send it to your friends.
If you've ever heard themmisuse one of these terms pro
tip, just like.
Drop this like a little deadmouse in front of them.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Like here you go but thank you so much for listening.
We will see you next week.
I've been christopher patchettlcsw and I've been lindsey
mclean bye you.
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cookie Show, where we
break down toxic people to theirsimplest ingredients.
I'm your host, christopherPatchett LCSW.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
And I'm Lindsay McLean.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Last week we talked about therapy speak.
We talked about people who usewords, boundaries, trigger,
warning and trauma and howthey're using it, completely
wrong, of course.
So I wanted to kind of takethis to the next level.
(00:49):
We left off last week and thisis kind of where we were kind of
talking about like trauma andpeople who say the words like
you know, like oh my God, likeJohnny football player, like
dumped me and you know I got somuch trauma from that it was so
traumatic I don't know if I'mever gonna be able to date again
(01:09):
.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
It's just like no, that's, or even worse, the
people who are just like, oh, mygod, this is, it's like so
traumatic.
Doing xyz and xyz is the mostnormal thing ever, but it's just
like, oh, this one time I wentand the server like didn't,
didn't give me something.
They put cilantro in my food.
I'm somebody who unfortunatelyhas the soap tasting cilantro
(01:33):
gene, which means that you know,it's that shit tastes
disgusting to me.
I always wondered why peopleliked it.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I was like, oh, but yeah, I've seen people use it
that way to me, like it was sotraumatic we, we left off with
people who use the, the wordtrigger, or the the words like
trauma and everything like thatand, as I was kind of saying
before, where if somebody hadgone through a relationship
where they were being lied toand now they're having like
(02:05):
episodes where they're in a newrelationship and they're
constantly fearing that the newperson is going to lie and
they're constantly looking forthat lie.
They're constantly trying tofigure out, like you know, like
listening to every single wordand saying, oh, that word didn't
match that one, so thereforeyou're lying.
Yes, okay, you're experiencinghypervigilance.
(02:25):
However, just havinghypervigilance alone does not
give you that traumaticexperience.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
No, because I imagine that for most diagnoses kind of
like when you get sick thereare multiple things that you
have to have for it to be XYZdisease.
It's very rarely just one thing.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Right based by diagnosis via the DSM, the
Diagnostic and StatisticalManual of Mental Disorders.
Fifth edition, tr.
When are they coming out withthe sixth one?
Well, they just came out withthe TR revision, so the fifth
(03:21):
one came out in 2012.
This one came out, I want tosay 2022.
I'm not going to look for thecopyright on this Not worth it
oh God, fucking MMXX.
(03:42):
Yeah, fuck off.
But yeah, you know, like youkind of hear people saying the
words, like you know, like, ohmy god, you know, like I I've
you know ptsd because I was liedto in my last relationship and
it's just like no, no, you donot.
So just going off of thedefinition of trauma itself
(04:05):
According to the DSMpost-traumatic stress disorder,
trauma itself is defined asexposure to actual or
threatening death, seriousinjuries or sexual violence in
one or more of the followingways.
So just off of that this iskind of why the DSM is the way
(04:27):
it is is there is a very cleardefinition of what trauma is,
and so then there's the it saysyou know it has to be
experienced in a certain manner.
One of the things is is if youexperience it within yourself or
(04:47):
if you're experiencing it firstresponders.
So, like you know, like a lotof people who go into buildings
where there's a lot of death orsomething like that, they're
able to experience like traumain that respect, somebody who
heard about it through somebodythat a loved one, so you mean
seeing it on the internet, viacarousel on instagram, of
(05:13):
somebody talking about theirtrauma?
that can't give me trauma no,because actually that that's uh.
So the uh fourth way is uhwitnessing in person the events
as it occurs.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, that all makes sense to me.
It's got to be very real andtangible to you.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Right, right, playing Call of Duty is not going to be
the thing that causes trauma.
No, at least according to theDSM, which, again, this is what
I am actually following theguidelines of.
A lot of times you'll hearpeople saying I have PTSD from a
(05:57):
bad breakup.
Well, okay, first off, you'renot even matching the first
qualification of PTSD, like, letalone, all the other things,
All the others yeah, so rightthere, that within itself, no,
you might be experiencing likedepression or sadness or things
(06:19):
like that, but you are notexperiencing trauma.
And then, on top of that, isthat?
So you know, just as I said,find what trauma?
Is it defined?
Who is able to experience this?
and then there's other thingswhere it it includes that you
have to experience one type oflike, uh, intrusive thoughts
(06:42):
okay and then it breaks downwhat exactly an intrusive
thought is and then again, justlike as the first part, then it
kind of gives different waysthat an intrusive thought can
happen.
The thing is is that it's notjust when you say like
post-traumatic stress disorder.
You know, it's not just of onesentence definition.
(07:05):
Yeah.
No, there are.
There are different, differentare.
There's the definition of whatthis is.
There is definitions of youknow what this is and how many
of these things you have toexperience in order to be able
to say that, yes, this is, youknow, ptsd and kind of thinking
of it like the user agreementsthat we all read so thoroughly.
(07:29):
Of course, you know, like you,you read, you know probably the,
the first, like you know,everybody's at one point said
you know what I, I really wantto know what's in this and you
know they, they try to read itand most of us will get to like
the third paragraph.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, and then you look at the little like how much
you have left, and you're likenah, but like we'll, we'll see
at the very beginning.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Like you know, this is how you, the user, and, and
and it's defining exactly whatthose words mean.
So this way, somebody whofinding a loophole of certain
words, so they definitely haveto define it in a very strict
manner.
(08:16):
So this way to close up anyloopholes.
Yep.
Same thing with the DSM is thatwe have like a very strict way
of diagnosing somebody thatisn't like oh yeah, you went
through like a horrible time.
Yeah, it was really scary.
Yeah, and the thing is, is thatokay, even in incidents where
(08:42):
somebody did go throughsomething extremely traumatizing
?
Okay, you experienced atraumatic event, you've covered
one part of it.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah, you still have to have all the other follow-up.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, because the thing is again, we're all
completely different.
So somebody might have gonethrough an act of war and they
say to themselves they come backhome, they're completely fine,
they were able to separate thatwartime was wartime, Hometime is
(09:20):
hometown.
I mean, it's going to affectyou somewhat, you know, no
matter what, but you know itmight not be post-traumatic
stress disorder.
Yeah.
Because just experiencingtrauma itself is only one of the
many categories.
(09:41):
The same thing with this is onethat I hear so many fucking
times you're going to talk aboutocd.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yes, yes, yes, holy shit, yes I just like my socks
to be organized.
I have a little ocd yes, oh, mygod.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
And the thing is is that, okay, you know people?
Oh, you like your desk clean?
You have such ocd.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I like to organize my books this way.
I know it's a little ocd.
It's always like a cutesy thing.
That's the thing that gets metoo is it's like a little teehee
.
I just like it this way.
I'm a little.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, you know and again you know.
Okay, so being like extremelyanal about something is only one
of the things.
Yeah.
And the thing is is that peopledon't recognize all the other
things that kind of go into OCD,that what we see on TV, you
(10:52):
know, like the, the rituals, isonly a part of it, and and a lot
of times you can have OCDwithout having the virtual
itself.
But again, you know, like justhaving a neat desk is not OCD.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Liking things.
Organized is not OCD.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
There's a I won't share it here, but there was a
story my mom shared with us wayback in the day of a way, way,
way, way way old patient of herswho had OCD and hearing this
story, I mean it ruined thisman's life.
That was the thing.
Is you looked at like it wasn'ta cutesy?
I like to touch the door fivetimes.
It was.
He was spending hours a day onthis because he could not stop,
(11:40):
like he would start the thingand if anything got messed up
along the way he would have torestart it and so he couldn't
hold down a job.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
He couldn't do anything normal in life because
he was spending hours on right,right and, and then I'm
definitely gonna go into that alittle bit more later on, but
you know and and that's thething is like, okay, having an
organized desk is not ocd, but,like you know, and this is kind
of the thing, is that somebodywho does truly have ocd they're
(12:11):
gonna a nice, neat desk and onepiece of dirt that's on that
desk, oh shit.
Yeah, now I have to clean outthe entire um, the desk and the
floor that you know, maybesomething like you know dropped
on there and now the walls andnow like the cupboards now,
because it's not just a desk andnow like the cupboards now,
(12:32):
because it's not just a desk Now.
I see the entire room from topto bottom has to have like an
absolute, like cleanup.
Yeah, you know that cutesy likeum, oh, I have OCD, you know is
it's?
Yeah, you know you're not.
You're not even beginning.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
You have not scratched the surface.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, you have not.
You're not even beginning, youhave not scratched the surface.
Yeah, you have not.
You have not scratched thesurface.
And the thing is is that alsowith OCD?
Is that, and a lot of peopledon't realize this, is that it's
intrusive thoughts?
Speaker 2 (13:08):
I was just about to ask about that.
Yeah, go on.
I was just about to ask aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, go on.
So the rituals themselves iskind of the outcome of the
intrusive thoughts, and anintrusive thoughts could be
(13:32):
anything along the lines of ifthere's a piece of dirt on the
desk and I'm breathing innothing but like dirt, so
therefore I need to make surethat I rid the entire like room
that I'm in of any possible dirt.
Other intrusive thoughts couldbe along the lines of where if,
if I am driving and I have mywindow down, I am going to get
(13:55):
into an accident, okay, we allkind of have thoughts like that,
but the difference is is thatsomebody who has OCD is going to
have, like you know, like thisis life threatening.
Yeah, I remember, I rememberone of the things I used to do,
(14:16):
like back in my 20s, is I kindof had one of those things where
, like you know, like if I waswalking and the whole like step
on the crack type thing.
Oh yeah.
And the thing was is I would doit without even recognizing it.
And it was funny because Iactually had a friend who was
like dude, are you trying toavoid the cracks?
(14:37):
And I was like, and thenfinally it caught on.
I was like, oh shit, like yeah,I am, and what I would end up
having to do is I would actuallystep on the crack just to kind
of be able to be like, okay, youknow, like I did it, I don't
have to.
But the thing is, is that okay?
Yeah, was what I was doing kindof awkward or weird or
(15:00):
something like that?
Was I kind of going out of myway to make sure I didn't step
on a crack?
Yeah, do I have a OCD?
No, because if I would, youknow, like I said, to kind of
get myself out of my head, Istep on a crack.
(15:22):
There we go.
It's already done.
You know I can move on with myday.
Yeah, somebody with OCD there,that is a life threatening thing
.
You know, step on a crack,break your mother's back.
That is a true like.
That is an absolute belief,just as a kid believes Santa
Claus is real.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Santa is real.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
You have, you have.
You know things like that,People who use the word
depressed.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Oh, I'm feeling so depressed?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
no, you're not.
You had a couple bad days yeahI mean there are again there are
certain definitions of how longyou're or how long you've had
these type of thoughts.
What is actual depression?
Yeah.
What are the events that causedit?
(16:18):
What are the onset of when itstarted?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Out of curiosity, what does the DSM say for
depression?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
So, according to the DSM, you have to be able to
match with five or more symptomsin a two-week time period, so
you have to be able to displaythoughts and things like that.
Yeah, you know, like if youjust had a really bad day you
(16:49):
might display like five of them.
Yeah.
But it doesn't mean that you'reyou're a major depressive
disorder, you're having a reallyshitty day.
And the thing is also with,like all these diagnosis, is
that there are different levelsof this.
So, like, major depressivedisorder is going to be
(17:11):
different than depression itself, there's going to be different
levels.
Two weeks, I just kind of saidabout, that's for MDD, which is
major depressed disorder, andagain we have to make sure that
the client or the person thatwe're working with fits within
(17:33):
this category.
So one of the reasons why is alot of times some of those
things are going to follow youaround and just to kind of give
you an example, is I can tellyou from my own experience and I
(17:56):
had to go through a lot of shitto get this taken off but I was
at one point diagnosed withborderline personality disorder
and the thing is is becausethere are a lot of similar
traits.
So one of the things that Ishowed was, you know, isolation,
(18:19):
the fact of wanting to bearound other people, but you
know, kind of isolating myself.
Okay, that's going to be truein, you know, borderline
personality disorder, but alsothat's going to be true in
depression.
Yeah, borderline personalitydisorder, but also that's going
to be true in depression.
Yeah, you know, and and thething is is that I'm not going
(18:40):
to call the doctor out by name,but you know, there was maybe
five of us that were dischargedfrom the military for having
borderline personality disorder.
Borderline personality disorder, in all facts, is not going to
be that common of a thing.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, I was going to say that feels like a lot to
have it once within a smallgroup relative to the whole
population as a whole.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
That's a lot, and so you know again, that is why it's
very important because, know,if my insurance were to pick up
on that, or the fact that, uh,my discharge, and at the time I
I didn't think anything aboutthis because I was in my early
20s, I didn't know anythingabout like mental, mental
(19:25):
disorders.
So I was like, okay, doctorknows what he's doing.
I'm just gonna like go with thedoctor and you know, when I
first went to the VA, being ableto continue with psychiatric
services, the doctor there waslike, okay, I can tell you flat
(19:45):
off, flat out, I would haveknown if you had a borderline
personality disorder within thefirst 10 minutes.
You do not have borderlinepersonality disorder and I mean,
again, you know like that'sgoing to affect, like you know,
like you know that's why it isvery precise in the DSM is
(20:05):
because that is going to beaffecting the way that the other
person feels.
Yeah, and the thing is is thatI never heard of a borderline
personality disorder prior tothis happening.
And the thing is is that once Igot the diagnosis, I looked
online and we all know how goodthe internet is.
(20:27):
Oh, yeah, always truthful,always truthful.
Yeah, again, I, I didn'trealize what I know about mental
disorders at the time and Ilooked at probably wikipedia if
that was around or somethinglike that at the time and I was
like, yeah, you know, I can kindof see how this, you know like,
(20:48):
would fit me.
Yeah, this I could kind of see,and, and the thing is, is that
there is a difference between,yeah, it could kind of, but no,
if you actually look at thesedefinitions, it's going to.
It's going to affect the waythat I treat my treatment plans,
it's going to affect the waythat I work with the client and
(21:11):
things like that.
It's also going to affect theway that the client sees
themselves, because, again, I'mnot the first one, nor am I
going to be the last one, whosaid, oh wow, here's a new
diagnosis.
Instead of really talking to mydoctor about it, I'm going to
ask Dr Wikipedia.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, yeah, the doctor said it, so it must be
true.
I mean, we would like to allbelieve that because you know
paying them all of our money.
But yeah, I mean I'm sure thereare tons of people who do just
kind of like sure, this is menow.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Why wouldn't it be?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
And that's the thing is that these diagnosis like if
I were to accidentally diagnosesomebody with a borderline
personality disorder and let'ssay that they are, I don't know,
25, I might have ruined thatperson's chance of going into
the military as opposed to theyhave slight depression, yeah,
(22:15):
mild depression or somethinglike that where, okay, you know
what, you have mild depression.
Get a waiver from apsychiatrist saying that that
was one episode and that youknow you're not prone for this
happening again.
But this was single episode.
No, we'll let you into themilitary.
Yeah.
Borderline personality disorder.
It's a personality, apersonality disorder yeah, you
(22:37):
ain't coming in so you know thatthat's kind of the thing is
that again, you really have tobe careful of the way you know,
like the way that I diagnosesomebody because it is going to
affect their lives, and justlike me being careful the the
way, like you know, I diagnosedsomebody the way they diagnose
themselves.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I thought Dr Instagram was always on my side
with truthful information,helpful links that definitely
aren't scams to take thesesupplements.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
And and and you kind of you of you covered this last
week and I do want to bring thisup again.
You know, and we see all thetime on Instagram and things
like that you know, do you haveTX arms?
You know like, do you like togo to sleep like this?
Speaker 2 (23:28):
You must have.
There's this like bucket listof all these possible like
horrific things.
Sometimes you know how you goon webmd when you're you've got
like a couple symptoms andcancer is always on and I get it
.
I get why it's on there, becauseit's just picking up these,
like you've said, these sixsymptoms, technically, this type
(23:50):
of cancer.
You know it's got a whole bunchof other symptoms too, but
these six symptoms, like, are apart of that.
I feel like sometimes thesepeople have just done that,
where it's like every possiblething that might be somewhat
related but there's noadditional information about
like.
Here's what's definitelyrelated, here's what's a little
(24:11):
bit related and here's what'slike very, very tangentially
related, very, very tangentiallyrelated.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
It's definitely going to affect the way that the
person goes in for treatment andthings like that it's hard as a
therapist, how many times thatI've had a new client coming
into my first session and youknow I'll say like you know,
like, you know like, so you knowwhat brings you in.
Well, you know, um, I, I haveadhd, okay, cool.
(24:46):
Like, uh, you know were you,were you formally diagnosed?
Like you know, like, uh, no, Isaw on instagram.
Like you know, like, if I'mlike oh fuck oh, my god, this
this is our favorite catchphrase.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
A future episode that I want to do, maybe sooner
rather than later, but aboutthat specifically ADHD and
autism that there is so muchrandom crap on the internet
about them that you very quicklybecome inundated with it.
Like, if you watch two videos,you're just like you're
constantly receiving more andthe stuff that people are
(25:24):
listing is, you know, and maybeit's true, maybe, maybe it's
absolutely true that, like, ifyou like sour candy, that you're
more likely to like really sourthings if you have adhd.
As far as I know, that has notbeen proven.
Correct me if I'm wrong on that?
no, I don't know well theinternet has told me that if you
(25:47):
like sour candy, you have adhd.
So you know, hard fact rightthere I actually.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
I just saw one, maybe a day or two ago, and it was um
are you addicted to porn?
Speaker 2 (26:03):
you have adhd and it's just like, like, no, like,
no I mean, and this is, oh, thisis we'll get into it later, but
I want to touch on it nowbecause it's such a sore point
for me.
The way stuff is framed on theinternet is what just pisses me
(26:27):
off so much.
Again, it's this framing of.
It's an absolute that if you door like X, you have Y.
As opposed to saying.
As opposed to saying hey, theremay be some correlations
between people who have ADHD aremore likely to become addicted
to things.
They have that addictivepersonality, and so if you
(26:51):
actually have ADHD, you may bemore likely than the general
population to experience this,but it's never framed that way.
It's just hey, do you likelistening to the same song over
and over again?
Adhd I think a lot of peoplelike that, and that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Is that like if?
If somebody's coming into myoffice for the first time and
they're adamant about havingADHD because of what they saw
online, I, as a therapist, youknow I will try to talk to them.
You know I will never.
You know, I wouldn't give themthe formal diagnosis.
(27:32):
Well, first off, I really can't, because any neurological
disorders has to be diagnosed bya doctor.
Yeah, but even if somebody wereto come in and say, like I have
a major depressive disorder andtheir girlfriend broke up with
them a week ago and they've beendepressed for the past week,
(27:52):
okay, you know, no, because theDSM says these symptoms have to
be there for at least two weeks,I might say something like the
good old handy adjustmentdisorder at first.
And if the person, like you know, like the next week, they might
come in and say, like you know,like, yeah, you know, like I
(28:14):
really kind of sat there and Ireally thought about things and
you know, I started hanging outwith.
I really kind of sat there andI really thought about things
and, and you know, I startedhanging out with friends, I'm
starting to feel better.
Okay, you know, like, let's gowith that.
But if I, if I'm sitting thereand trying to work with somebody
by using tools that I would forsomebody with adh when they
just have a porn addiction?
(28:35):
Yeah, it's not something.
I'm going to have two completelydifferent treatment plans based
off of that, but what if theyhave a porn addiction and they
like sour candy?
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Then that's double ADHD.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
The last thing I really do want to kind of touch
on this is the dangers of thisand the reason why we talked
about how people might hear thisdiagnosis and then they'll
they'll kind of go intoWikipedia and shit like that and
really kind of take on that,that diagnosis.
The thing is is that it alsoreally softens the blow of what
(29:16):
these diagnoses are.
Because, just as I was kind ofsaying before about ocd you know
we were both saying about thisis that you know you having a
clean desk, you spending 10 or10 minutes a day, you know
making sure that your desk isorganized, you don't have ocd
and you don't realize the shitthat you know, as you were kind
(29:37):
of saying, the person whose lifeis completely ruined because
the stream of their OCD.
You're not talking about a 10minute cleanup.
Again, you are talking from topto bottom.
You're bleaching things, peoplewho I've heard stories of
(29:58):
people with such raw skinbecause they have to sit there
yeah.
And the effect that it has onsomebody who does have this
actual diagnosis, somebody withPTSD who can't even go to a
restaurant unless they aresitting against a wall because
(30:20):
they are so hypervigilant thatthey do not feel safe in any
public setting and it's hard forthem between the car to the
restaurant itself becausethere's a wide open space that
they're living in a very,extremely harsh life.
Now there is treatment for forthese things, you know, is not
(30:44):
the ruin of their life oranything like that.
But the thing is is that evenfor a time period of six months
a year, some people I mean Ican't tell you how many Vietnam
veterans that I had seen thathave gone through this for 30
years of their lives or more and, you know, really had a
(31:06):
horrible time that they weren'table to enjoy time with their
family because the intrusivethoughts are so bad that they're
constantly having to work onChristmas, because if they have
time to settle down, their mindstarts racing onto traumatic
events that happened in the past.
(31:27):
Yeah.
That's kind of the thing is thatOCD, ptsd, these things are not
like these cutesy like you know, like instagram cutesy type
things.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
But I always picture it with the um, like little
pastel background and the kindof like a little bit of a curly
font.
There may be some flowers onthere.
That's what I associate with.
These was just like makes iteven worse.
It's like you're giving, it'slike it's cutesy, it's calm,
it's cute.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Look, we're trying to talk about it, and then it's
just filled with falseinformation yeah no and, and
that's the thing is that youknow like it definitely needs to
be out there.
You know and, and you know thisis one of the the you know
reasons why, like you know likesomething like this, where being
(32:16):
able to hear, like you knowlike what exactly you know.
Like you know like somethinglike this, where being able to
hear, like you know like whatexactly you know happens and you
know like, yes, if you arefeeling like that you've gone
through a traumatic event, cool,see a therapist.
Yeah.
If you do feel that the breakupwith Johnny football player was
a traumatic event.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
And you just cannot get past it.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Yeah, see a therapist , but don't give yourself that
label yet.
Yeah.
So, with that being said, wheredo you think we should go from
here?
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I mean, our longtime favorite education got to edify
the peoples.
That's what this stuff means.
And I think for this type ofthing, for actual diagnoses as
opposed to therapy speak, it isall the more important to
actually call people out and belike that is incorrect, like
(33:18):
right here, what you're saying,like even if it's just calling
somebody out in the moment andthey're like hi, I'm just a
little OCD.
It's like with racism We'vetalked about this before they
can be really uncomfortable.
So just call someone out and belike that is really
inappropriate to say Don't do it, and it kills the mood, and
then you know nobody wants tohang out with you, blah, blah,
blah.
But and it kills the mood, andthen you know nobody wants to
(33:43):
hang out with you, blah, blah,blah.
But I think that it should becalling people out, like if you
are hanging out with a group ofpeople and somebody does kind of
make a little comment aboutlike oh yeah, you know, I'm just
a little OCD, say something,just point at me, like that's
not actually what that means, doyou know?
Like, do you know that is avery real diagnosis that has
very, very real effects onsomebody's life in a negative
way this is not fun and games.
(34:05):
this is not cutesy, like maybedon't refer to and we're all
guilty of it.
You know we've all done it likeit used to be a thing.
I get it.
There's no need to punishyourself for that now, but do
better and when you see otherpeople who haven't learned that,
call them out.
I honestly I wish that therewould be maybe some more.
(34:26):
You know, social media is adouble-edged sword, because on
the one hand, I appreciate thatwe're putting information out
about these things, cause Ithink that there are times that
people will see this and we'llget into this at some point,
that you may see something andyou're like, oh shit, that's me.
I didn't realize that this wasa thing.
You know, I've beenexperiencing this my whole life
(34:47):
and I never had a word for itbecause I just thought it was
normal, I thought it was a meproblem.
And now I realize that, likethere's a name for it and I can
get help for this thing that Ihave or that I'm experiencing,
and so I don't want to say like,oh, we should never post about
it on the internet, because thatis absolutely not true.
But I would love to see peoplepost less, maybe unless you have
(35:10):
really gone through it, likeunless you are somebody who has
actually been diagnosed withsomething, or unless you were a
qualified and ethical therapistyou know.
I'd love to see that kind of goaway to decrease the amount of
fluffified information, if I may, where it's stuff that, like it
(35:33):
may be true, there may be likea base of truth somewhere deep
in there, but you've just likepuffed it up beyond recognition
to create something that's likeexciting and cool and, like you
know, a list of 10 things thatpeople with OCD do, a list of 10
things like that ADHD.
(35:53):
Again, it was just like kind ofrandom stuff and maybe it's
true, maybe it's not, but it'svery easy for anyone to see
themselves within that Be likeit's me.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
I have OCD, I don't I , so I don't want to say educate
ourselves, because that's kindof the thing that got us here.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
We were trying to educate ourselves and we
miseducated.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
I think that.
So there is a reason why I donot work on my car.
Yeah, and there is a reason whyI will not work on somebody
else's car.
If you want to lose a car, thequickest way to lose a car is
(36:47):
asking me to work on it if youwant to lose your plants, the
quickest way is to ask patchesto water them yeah, there,
there's a reason why I I don'twork on my car or work on other
people's cars is because I don'tknow shit about cars.
Yeah, somebody you know might Imight be in the car with
somebody and they're like, hey,do you hear a noise?
(37:09):
And I'm like, yeah, maybe youshould get get that checked out.
Okay, we know that there's aproblem.
Let's take it to a mechanic andlet's have the mechanic
actually say what the problem is.
And that's the same thing withthis.
Is that okay?
If there are things that aregoing on in your life that
(37:30):
you're having a hard time with,and everything like that, okay,
you're recognizing the problem.
Or a friend might be able tosay, hey, it sounds like you're
really having a hard time inlife, like, maybe you should see
somebody, but it's not up tothe friend to be like, hey,
(37:50):
you're, you're fucking, you know, really depressed.
Like, no, you know, your friendfriend is not, is not a mental
health provider they're not yourmental health provider I hope
anyway oh my god, yes, I, I'veyou know.
(38:15):
So just just for the audienceout there, please, please,
please.
Anybody who works in any typeof healthcare.
I've heard stories from nursesas well, like you know.
Oh, you're a nurse.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Check this out.
I have a big I have.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
I have a big thing on my fucking chest, you know,
check it out and it's like dude.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
No we're not on the clock, like we're not here
trying to live my life.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
I don't want to look at your butt and and, yeah, same
thing, like you know, like I'mthere is.
There is a difference betweenme talking to you as a friend,
as a person, for an hour versusme talking to somebody for an
hour in an office setting.
Yeah, you know, I'm not lookingto diagnose you, so therefore
(39:05):
do not ask, like you know, likehey, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, because I will tell youthe same thing is go see
somebody.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
And not me.
I don't want to know yourlife's problems and not me.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
I don't want to know your life's problems.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
So so yeah, I think that you know partial education
and ideally I will say maybe, ifpossible, avoid greater
assistance.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yep, that is definitely a episode that will a
hard time.
You should do that.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
You should not go to Dr Instagram or Dr TikTok.
Those are fake doctorates.
They were plagiarized andwritten by AI.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
So, with that being said, where would you put this
on our scale of toxicity?
Would you say that this is agreen potato where you can just
shave off the green and eat therest?
Is this a death cap mushroomwhere it's a 50-50 shot of dying
from it?
Or is it antifreeze?
A delightful last meal lastmeal.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
I am going to say that this, in particular,
misdiagnosing people ordiagnosing yourself from random
crap that you've seen online,just use misusing actual terms
like this I would say that thisis actually antifreeze.
I know we said said death cap,like low death cap for therapy
speak, and while these two arevery, very similar which is why
we decided to do them back toback that to me has much less of
(41:09):
a potential negative effect onyour life and the people's lives
around you versus you knowagain, somebody who has actual
OCD or actual PTSD and who maybeis now not receiving the care
you know, because we had a timewhen, like, these things didn't
(41:30):
exist and it's just you makingthis shit up in your head, like
get back to work.
And then we were like, oh hey,maybe, maybe there are problems
here that we should address sothat people can live happy,
fulfilled lives.
And now I feel like we're kindof coming back up the other side
.
It's like, because everyone hasit now it doesn't mean anything
, and so it means that somebodywho has actually experienced
(41:51):
such stress that they have ptsdis now being lumped potentially
into the same category assomebody who had a super sad,
bad day, and that's not helpfulfor either of them, and it
potentially means that theperson who has real PTSD is now
mocked and shamed for whatthey're going through and the
way that they act, and theydon't receive the care, and so
(42:13):
we're right back to step one ofpeople who spend decades of
their lives traumatized realtraumatized.
I think it can have really,really, really negative effects.
It doesn't always, of course,but it has such a high potential
that I think we really need tobe careful to stop completely
(42:36):
misusing terms like real hard,clinical terms in places that
they just don't need to be.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Yeah, I mean yeah, I would say, you said it perfectly
, I agree, I think that this isdefinitely an antifreeze.
Where again, no, I agree, Ithink that this is definitely an
(43:23):
antifreeze.
Where again you on Instagramand is viewing out, most people
are going to be like that'sreally, you're traumatized by
that.
And then again somebody whoactually has gone through drama
they're picking up that.
Well, I've seen on Instagram,they're picking up that.
(43:46):
Well, I've seen on Instagram 20people who are traumatized by a
breakup or something like that.
And here comes, you're notreally that traumatized.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yeah, everyone's a little traumatized this day.
Absolutely the fuck.
Not that phrase.
Everyone's a little XYZ, I meanfor many reasons, but also I
mean just goes to show that likeit's been so overused that that
person who says that has seenit everywhere.
And so now, when somebody whodoes come to them, who really
(44:11):
does have ADHD, autism, ptsd,ocd, any of these things,
they're just like, just likewhatevs.
Everyone's a little bit this,everyone has it these days.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
They shouldn't if you have any stories, please feel
free to write us at toxic atawesome life skillscom.
Follow us on our social mediaFacebook, instagram, twitter,
tiktok and threads and if youlike this episode, please give
(44:45):
us a five star.
It really helps us getourselves out there and
everything like that.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Also send it to your friends.
If you've ever heard themmisuse one of these terms pro
tip, just like.
Drop this like a little deadmouse in front of them.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Like here you go but thank you so much for listening.
We will see you next week.
I've been christopher patchettlcsw and I've been lindsey
mclean bye you.
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