May 6, 2025 • 47 mins
The modern manosphere has created a pantheon of male archetypes, but none quite as supposedly elusive and mysterious as the "Sigma Male." Emerging around 2017-2018, this concept markets itself as the rarest, coolest type of masculinity—the lone wolf operating outside traditional hierarchies while maintaining alpha-level respect.
But peek behind the curtain, and you'll find fascinating contradictions. The very examples held up as quintessential Sigmas—James Bond, Batman, John Wick—actually reveal the myth's fatal flaw. Each of these characters relies deeply on community and support systems. Bruce Wayne has Alfred. Bond has Q and an entire spy network. The truly independent man simply doesn't exist, and the glorification of extreme isolation contributes directly to the male loneliness epidemic ravaging modern society.
What's particularly striking is that genuinely confident, independent people rarely label themselves. When examining real-world figures sometimes referenced as Sigmas (like Keanu Reeves or David Bowie), we find individuals who openly acknowledged the communities that supported them. The loudest self-proclaimed Sigma Males tend to be those most desperately seeking validation and a sense of belonging—the very opposite of the archetype they claim to embody.
This paradox reveals something profound about modern masculinity: the desperate search for identity often leads to self-defeating behaviors. Men rejecting social connections in the name of independence find themselves isolated, vulnerable, and without the very community safeguards that keep us healthy and grounded. There's nothing wrong with introversion or independence, but when taken to extremes and worn as an identity shield, these traits become potentially deadly.
Have you encountered self-proclaimed Sigma Males in your life? We'd love to hear your experiences and perspectives—write to us at toxic@awesomelifeskills.com or find us on social media to continue the conversation.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people intotheir simplest ingredients.
I'm your host for this week,lindsay McLean, and with me is
my fantastic co-host.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Christopher Patchett, LCSW.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Today's topic is the quote-unquote rarest kind of
male in the manosphere, theSigma male.
Have you ever heard of Sigmas?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I remember coming across them a couple times when
we were doing our earlierepisodes of like the alpha male
and the simp and things likethat.
I don't really remember a lotof that.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, I had heard the term.
I don't know if it was eitherin researching that or just kind
of on the internet.
I think both.
It does appear to have appearedaround the late 2010s, I see,
you know, 2017, 2018 kind ofpopping up around in there.
So the Sigma male is a solitarymasculine man.
(01:17):
He is outside of the alpha betahierarchy and he's the quote
unquote lone wolf type personwhich already we have debunked
this.
If you want to hear us as babypodcasters which I don't
recommend- you can go back to.
(01:37):
I think it's our second everepisode was the alpha male.
Yeah, it was there's like theget to know us episode, and then
I'm pretty sure the the nextone that we've released was the
alpha male, so yeah, you want tohear us struggling, you can go
listen to that, but in that weor you rather debunked the lone
(02:04):
wolf.
So the lone wolf idea is Ibelieve and correct me if I'm
wrong when we studied a bunch ofwolves that were held in
captivity and we're like wow,there's like a pack leader and
there's one that does this andone that does that and kind of
(02:27):
assigned them these roles withinthe pack.
But that was held in captivityand then researchers went out
and they watched real wolves intheir natural environment and
they were like damn, they'rethis alpha male like lone wolf
thing doesn't really exist Idon't remember there being like
the lone wolf, like I rememberwhen they said, like the alpha
(02:48):
male was like the it's like thepack leader.
Yeah, and that's.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, the pack leader .
And and then, yeah, just as yousaid, when they actually looked
at them in in the wild, that itwas all total bullshit, that
each wolf had a part of their,you know, within the family and
everything like that, and bothhad equal jobs yeah, and I'm
pretty sure I've read at somepoint.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I thought this was that, and now I'm regretting
that I didn't check this.
So sorry to everyone, butwolves do live in packs, which
implies that, like in general,you're not going to have a
single wolf that's like outthere doing its thing on the
regular.
That usually means somethinghas gone wrong.
There are animals, of course,that they're solitary and just
(03:32):
vibing by themselves.
That is usually not a wolf,though, and I also want to point
out that this whole we'reoutside of the alpha beta
hierarchy.
You pick the name.
That's a greek letter, likealpha and beta.
That puts you within thehierarchy.
You were within that, thatlittle, that group, and I I get
(03:55):
it.
You know, myers-briggs typesjust aren't cutting it anymore.
The gays get to call themselvesfun names and have colorful
flags.
Like me, as a straightmasculine man, I want to have
fun too.
All right, calm down, buddy,you can have a cool name.
That's the vibe I get from alot of these.
Like I'm an alpha male, I'm a,a delta, an omega because there
(04:18):
are more, by the way yeah, yeah,yeah yeah, there appear to be
about like six different types.
I think it was like alpha, beta,sigma, delta, omega and zeta.
They're all in there.
It's just like but okay, sigmais somehow not part of that
hierarchy, even though it is.
(04:39):
But okay, we're, we're too coolfor school, we're not going to
be part of it, right?
So common Sigma male traits arethat you're fairly introverted,
you're very independent, you'rea free thinker and very
(05:01):
nonconformist.
Those are the ones you see popup the most when you look up
like who is a Sigma male or whatis a Sigma male?
And basically it's somebodywho's just, you know, doing,
doing their thing, vibe, andspending a lot of time by
themselves.
An alpha male, but cool is thevibe that I get that you know
you would.
The type of person who callsthemselves this and we'll get
(05:22):
into that later sees themselvesin this way and you can see this
in examples of who are Sigmamales.
And it's very interesting thatyou don't see a lot of current
Sigma males.
You don't see a lot of peoplerunning around calling
themselves this, but you seethis a lot.
(05:43):
People identify characters inmovies.
So classic examples James Bond,john Wick, bruce Wayne, rambo,
like.
This is your quote unquoteSigma male, the good alpha guy.
I need to stop using myjudgmental tone.
I'm trying to be trying toprovide like all different sides
(06:06):
and I hear myself judgingalready.
But yeah, you know, if you haveto kind of point out you're
like, we're like them, but cool,but good, again, that means
you're within the hierarchy yeah, that's yeah, I mean like, okay
.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So like I mean bruce wayne, like I, you, wayne, I
grew up as a comic book lover.
He was just his own person.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I mean really, there's no classification for
him.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I also want to point out again these are fictional
characters.
Yeah, these are not real peopleliving their natural, authentic
selves.
These were creations ofsomebody's mind and I think that
it's also telling that not onlyare they fictional characters,
but many of them are kind ofappear in a set period of
(07:00):
American history.
You don't find a lot of currentexamples of the Sigma male,
james Bond, like that's.
You know, bond does Bond things.
I get that he's been around forforever because we just like
put a new actor in each time,but still, you know the classic
James Bond.
(07:21):
That's a set time period thatwe are out of classic James Bond
.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
That's a set time period that we are out of.
Yeah, when I think of classicJames Bond, I think of 1960s.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yep.
Of those common traits that Ilisted, on the surface I think a
lot of them appear prettynormal.
If somebody came to me and said, yeah, I'm introverted, you
(07:57):
know, if somebody came to me andsaid, yeah, I'm introverted,
I'm pretty independent, I liketo do my own thing, that does
not immediately send alarm bellsringing in my head.
Or if I meet that type ofperson, I'm not immediately like
, oh, that's a walking red flag.
Combined in the right way, theyactually have the real
potential to cause some issues.
And starting with thenon-conforming, free thinker
part, because that's what reallycaught my attention when I was
looking into this Curious tohear your take as a man.
Men seem desperately to want tobe cool and unique and
(08:26):
mysterious.
This seems to be something thatthey really want, and there's
this obsession with being theman who doesn't.
I'm doing the voice again.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I need to not.
That lasted all of about threeminutes Right, non-judgmental?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Yes, that's me.
There seems to be thisobsession with being the type of
guy who doesn't take no for ananswer.
He does things thequote-unquote wrong way but gets
to the right end Again.
Think back to those examplesthat I used of you know, like a
James Bond or a John Wick, thatthey may do really
(09:09):
unconventional things and theremay be people telling them like
no, don't do that.
And they go ahead and do itanyway and the right thing
happens because they didn'tlisten to anybody.
People were telling them not toand they went ahead and they
did what they thought was rightand good things happened.
Why are men so obsessed withthis?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Let's see, get ready to hate me in five, four, three,
two, one.
Remember the episode that I did, I don't know, maybe about
three, four months ago?
No, what women Want, uh-huh,and the whole idea of I want a
(09:52):
guy who's aggressive but not tooaggressive.
I want a guy who, well, if thewhole thing is that aggression,
that go-getter type thing, youcan't have a guy who is a real
go-getter and who listens.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
This is very true.
I think it's a very hard lineto walk and I get it.
It's the same thing withconfidence.
I think we've talked aboutbefore that women like
confidence.
But it's where do you draw theline between I'm confident and
I'm overconfident?
Because when you cross intooverconfident that's bad
territory, but somehow you haveto get up high enough, but not
(10:37):
too high, but not too low.
And I think this is one ofthose things where you know
somebody who would want toidentify themselves as a Sigma
male is trying to figure out,where they're trying to find
this right balance between beingcool and mysterious and getting
everyone's attention, but alsobeing mysterious but getting
(11:00):
their attention.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
You know, and and again, this kind of comes down
to you know, as somebody who isvery much out there, very much
the type of person that I, ifI'm hurt, I'm going to let you
know.
If you know, that's just theway that I am.
I have heard that you don'thave to tell me everything or
(11:25):
leave a little bit to a mysteryand it's just like okay, well,
you know, you, you, you can'thave somebody who's who's open
and honest with you and at thesame time, have like a a mystery
to them yeah, it's one way orthe other, it's, it's, yeah,
it's one way or the other, yougot to pick and choose at a
(11:48):
certain point.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, yeah, and with the Sigma male, I think this is
again one of those things whereyou can have somebody who is,
you know, maybe not open all thetime, so they're a little
mysterious, but it's notnecessarily a bad thing.
It's also not necessarily a badthing when you have somebody
who identifies.
As you know, I'm a free thinker, I'm non-conforming to society,
(12:12):
but there's you got to becareful with that, because
here's the thing you need acommunity.
Social pressures exist for areason.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
You know, it's funny that you brought up Batman
earlier, because somebody, youknow, the thing that I come to
mind is somebody who's a mystery, somebody who doesn't conform
to society.
I mean, half of Bruce Wayne wasall about the business I owned
and he was a business owner andthings like that.
He had just this other half tohim.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
He also has a fucking community.
He has what's his, is it Alfred?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, he also has Alfred, he has a Robin, he has
so the.
The thing that actually comesto my mind when you're talking
about, like the, the Sigma male,is the Joker.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Sigma's everywhere Like no.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
He's mysterious.
I don't know if he's laughingat me or if he's going to kill
me.
He's the lone wolf.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
You're not wrong, I can definitely see it and I
think this is something that, ifyou look at those examples I
gave, they all have help.
James Bond has help.
He's got what's-his-facedeveloping all the weapons for
him.
Yeah, that all of these peoplehave actually a community and
they have support.
They're not just acting ontheir own with no regard to
(13:41):
anyone else.
That is a twisting of thoseideas that I think people over
time have kind of forgotten.
They see it's like oh, he doeseverything by himself, a hundred
percent.
No, he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Oh God.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
There's always somebody there.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Especially in today's world.
It's pissed me off more andmore every time that you know I
got here on my own and it's justlike.
No, you actually didn't, no.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
You really didn't?
Yeah, you did.
There are so many factors thatgo into it that you have just
forgotten or that aren't obviousor whatever, but almost
guaranteed, every single one ofus has gotten here through the
help of others.
Actually guaranteed 100%.
Yeah, there's no way.
Every single one of us hasgotten here through the help of
others.
Actually guaranteed 100%.
There's no way.
There are things that you do onyour own, but in general, you
(14:31):
are as good as your communityand that's why it's so important
to not completely isolateyourself and be like I'm a lone
wolf doing my lone wolf thingsand I don't need my friends, I
don't need a community, I don'tneed a community, I don't need
anyone to help me becausethey're going to tell me that
I'm wrong.
If people are judging you andpeople are telling you that
(14:53):
you're wrong, it is actuallyimportant to take a step back
and analyze why, and that's notto say, as soon as somebody says
, hey, that's a stupid idea,you're like oh man, you're right
, I shouldn't do this.
But when you have yourcommunity which you should have
and you come to them with anidea, if they're all telling you
(15:14):
hey, man, I don't think that'sa really good idea.
If I suddenly was like you knowwhat Fuck it, I'm going to sell
all of my worldly possessionsand I'm going to move to
Thailand to start training inMuay Thai.
I would hope that you know you,as my friend of 14 years, would
(15:39):
probably try and talk to me.
Actually, is it 15 years?
It's almost 15 years at thispoint.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Oh, my God, god, not yet it will be no, yeah, it will
be here in in about like sixmonths, september, ish oh my god
.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
But you know, I I would hope that you and my other
friends would, at the veryleast, like, kind of ask me some
questions and try and talk tome about to understand what it
is that has, you know, convincedme that I must do this.
And I would also hope that youwould, you know, try and talk me
through what are the pros, whatare the cons of you doing this.
That's why it's important tohave this community that is Nope
(16:17):
, nope.
No, I should get it.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I would say I think you should do it.
It would make greatentertainment for me.
See and that right there tellsme this is a bad idea.
This is why we have friends.
I'm like, I'll pay to get youto Thailand and you're like okay
(16:43):
, something's definitely notgood here.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I feel like I'm being used for fun, but but that's
exactly as you talk to thepeople around you when you're
making these big decisions and Iwould hope that the people in
your life are there for you.
And certainly at this point inmy life I have made sure that
the friends that I have, thatI'm really close to, don't feel
(17:08):
bad about calling me out if I dodumb shit in relationships, if
I do just dumb shit in life.
They will question me, theywill let me know if they think I
am doing the wrong thing.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Now will you listen?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Oh, absolutely not wrong thing now?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
will you listen?
Speaker 1 (17:30):
oh, absolutely not, but at least, at least we are
there to tell you that you'redoing some things exactly.
So it means that you're notjust completely flying by the
seat of your pants, thinkingthat everything is hunky-dory
and then suddenly it's not.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
You're like I didn't see this coming you're just
sitting around thinking that I'mdifferent Because I am
different.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I'm going to make it work.
Okay, I'm special.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Not that I would ever do that either.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
No, of course not.
But it is important to havethis network of friends, of
confidants, people that you workwith.
It doesn't have to be you know,somebody you've known for 20
plus years.
It's just people that are therefor you and understand what it
is that you're doing.
And you can have differentfriends for different things,
like within my friend group, forexample.
I probably tell everybody aboutlike 80% of the same stuff
You're all getting you know thebig stories, but there are some
(18:25):
friends that I may talk about awith that I wouldn't talk about
that with somebody else, butsomebody else I would talk about
B and just you know, withinthat, because we have different,
our friendships came about indifferent ways.
We have sometimes differentinterests, different links to
each other.
That's a good thing.
Different knowledge, differentknowledge yeah, there are
friends who you know have movedhalfway across the world and
(18:48):
have dealt with that, and so youcan talk to them about that
type of thing, whereas a friendwho hasn't, you know I might not
bring that up as often becauseyou don't have that base, and so
you're like, wow, sounds bad.
Sorry, I can't.
You know, I can commiserate, Ican sympathize with you, but I
(19:13):
can't empathize if you listen toone of our previous episodes
no-transcript it bounce ideasoff of make sure you're not
doing dumb shit and insistingthat you can do whatever you
want because you're a freethinker who doesn't take crap
from anybody else.
You're a strong, independentman.
That is how you end up aloneand dead.
Sorry to bring the mood downreal fast there, but it's true.
(19:38):
That is very true.
It's true.
That is very true Because menare already just.
In general, men are moreresistant to going to the
doctors if there's somethingthat's wrong of kind of taking
care of themselves in general,like health-wise stuff.
They often struggle to formdeep friendships and bonds with
(20:00):
other men, which means that theyare far more likely to be
lonely.
Not all men, for once we cansay that here but I think it is
a common theme that men are morelikely to do this.
So if you already have somebodywho identifies as very
independent, as nonconformist,as free thinking, I think they
(20:22):
are far more likely to be thistype of person, which means they
are far more likely to end upin a really bad situation
because they didn't want to goto the doctor, they thought they
could handle it on their ownand now they've got like a
horrific infection.
They're really, really sick.
They broke a bone that did notset properly because they
refused to go to the doctor.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
There was something that was preventable or
treatable at a certain stagethat was not caught in time
because they were like no, no,no, I'm using my judgmental
voice there, you know, and it'sunbelievable, like, thank God,
you know, guys are not down tothe point where they feel a
(21:02):
little bit of a chest pain andthey avoid going to the doctor.
For you know, two weeks andwhat could have been just a
simple.
Here's a medication to clear up, like a little bit of fluid in
your lungs, that same personlanding it so bad that there's
fluid inside and outside oftheir lungs and they end up in
(21:24):
the hospital for two weeks.
Thank God that never happens.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
No, that never happens.
So, go on.
That was beautiful, by the way.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
You know what?
In my defense, I will say thisI do blame the Navy for this,
because of the fact that youcould have your head chopped off
and it's like.
Stop being a pussy.
Here's two Tom dolls and drinksome water.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
But that kind of plays into you know you're
supposed to be a strong,masculine man who takes care of
yourself, who's independent, hedoesn't need help from other
people.
And you get into that mindsetand yeah, then it is hard to
accept help, it's hard to acceptmedical help, it's hard to
accept help realizing that youmay not physically be able to do
something anymore, that you arestruggling to do certain tasks,
(22:20):
even not just physical stuff,but maybe something at work,
maybe something in your life.
If you feel like you have to behyper, independent and hyper,
you know all on your own youwill not go to other people for
help and problems will just getworse.
It does not make the problem goaway.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, yeah not make the problem go away.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
So there's there's that.
Then there's also the fact thatsocial pressures exist for a
reason.
You know.
There are a lot of bad faithactors.
So they're out there andthey're only held back because
they would be punished If theydid what they wanted.
Driving is a great example.
If there were no speed limits,if there were no driver's
(23:04):
license, no tests, nopunishments for doing whatever
it is you want to do in your car, do you know how bad the roads
would be?
It would be like New York City24-7.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Having lived in New York City, that's true.
Actually, who's worse, la orNew York, because you've lived
in New York City?
Speaker 1 (23:22):
That's true.
Actually, who's worse, la orNew York, because you've lived
in both.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Each has their own disadvantages.
New York is more crowded so ittakes a long time to get from
point A to point B, which mightbe four or five miles.
Yeah, la is not as crowded butit's more spread out.
Time to get from point A topoint B, which might be four or
five miles.
(23:49):
La is not as crowded but it'smore spread out, so you're
sitting in traffic for the sameamount of time to get to a job
that is 15 miles away, becauseeverything is just so spread out
like that.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah, but both of them are just known for having
horrific traffic.
Horrific that, yeah, but bothof them are just known for
having, like, horrific traffic,horrific drivers yeah.
So yeah, we've all seen likethere are people who still don't
follow those social norms.
Seatbelts Cars didn't used tocome with seatbelts.
Then we put seatbelts in,people said no, thank you, and
they kept on dying and finallysociety had to step in and be
(24:20):
like hey, you, okay there.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
I don't know anybody who doesn't wear their seatbelts
.
What?
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Huh, yes, you know, we wear our seatbelts because it
keeps us alive, and we wear ourseatbelts like the correct way
across the chest because itkeeps us alive.
And we wear our seatbelts likethe correct way across the chest
because it keeps us alive.
And once society was like youhave to do this, there were
people who started doing it.
(24:51):
And then there were people whowere like meh don't care.
And so society had to be likethat's a fine, Now you're
getting pulled over by thepolice officer.
And suddenly people were likeyou know, it's not so bad.
There are reasons why we havethese societal pressures and
rules to force people, to tryand force people.
(25:11):
There are always certain peoplewho don't want to follow.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
And there are certain reasons why we have loud music
to drown out that beeping sound.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Can't believe.
You just outed yourself.
So obviously this type ofsocial pressure is different
from you know, the one that saysthat men have to have a six
pack and women have to wearmakeup all the time.
But I think it's stillimportant to acknowledge the
fact that it's part of the same.
(25:44):
Umbrella of things is that weas a society kind of push
certain things, and sometimes wepush bad things and sometimes
we push good things, but it'sthere for a reason.
So if you simply say I don'tconform, I refuse to conform, I
refuse to listen to what anybodythinks about me, you're going
to be really lonely.
You're going to be reallylonely.
You're going to be likecompletely isolated, which,
(26:06):
speaking of the word of the week, is isolation.
Yay, I need to try and find apositive one.
I think all of mine have beennegative.
We'll get some good ones inthere.
So isolation is when you arecut off from everyone else.
I would say it's a strong formof loneliness, it's what can
(26:31):
lead to being lonely, and it isit's like in the same bracket.
You see what I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
I, you know, and, and one of the biggest things with
isolation is that is likeprobably one of the number one
contributors to depression.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, and death.
We're not meant to be byourselves.
There are definitely people whoare introverted enough.
They're like nope, I'm justdoing my thing over here.
That's a choice.
When you are isolated, it'sless of a choice, and then
you're going to be lonely,you're going to be stressed,
you're going to be depressed andthat's how you end up dead.
Yay, yay, deb.
(27:09):
So yeah, that's why friends andsociety are so important,
because you're only as good asthe people around you and your
community, and that's what willkeep you feeling good, you
feeling connected with people.
You'll be able to bounce ideasoff them, you'll be able to find
(27:30):
a partner, you'll be able tohave friends, you'll be able to
form these connections.
And this male obsession withdoing it all on your own is
extremely toxic.
I mean, look at the maleloneliness epidemic that we are
supposedly experiencing.
This is related to that,because men are not making
friends and men are insistingand I'm talking obviously in
(27:56):
general, like in very largeterms, when I say men here, men
are insisting like no, I've gotto do this myself, I've got to
be a masculine man who'sindependent.
And then he looks around.
He's like wow, I'm 40 and Idon't have a single friend.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Whoops.
Well, so why do you saysupposedly having the epidemic
that we're supposedly having?
Why do you use the wordsupposedly?
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Because I think this has been going on for far, far
longer.
People are talking about itlike it's this new thing that
just appeared in you know 2023or something, and I I think it
goes back further.
I think we've just become moreaware of it.
I do think it is getting worsewith social media, our good
(28:40):
friend, that people who werekind of on that edge are being
pushed it farther into it.
But I think that in general,this idea of not idea, but the
problem that men have of nothaving close friends and bonds
and people to rely on in theirlife, has been going on for far
(29:01):
longer.
We just haven't necessarilytalked about it or realized that
it was sitting there just likebarely covered up.
I mean, think about all of theboomer couples where she does
all of the planning for him.
She makes sure that he goes outto golf, makes sure that he
(29:22):
does this, she organizes abrunch with another couple.
The wives of these men aretaking care of that aspect for
them.
But if the wife was gone, thatman would not be in a place to
do those things himself.
Does that answer your question?
To do?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
those things himself.
Does that answer your question,and I think that this is
definitely something that wewill talk about in a future
episode.
Fuck, but yeah, I think that,yes, it's been an ongoing
problem, but I think that,thankfully, it is being brought
to light.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Just like you hear about, like mental health, you
know, being a thing that will.
Mental health has been a thingsince the dawn of time.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
It didn't just like crawl out of the dark in 2011.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Like ah, I'm the thing, but but it's just the
fact that it's becoming moreacceptable to talk about it and
to be open about it and thingslike that.
So this is pretty much just thesame thing that this has been
an ongoing problem.
It's just that lately it's beengiven more light.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
It's been given more light.
I think it's becomingradicalized Again.
People are being shiftedfurther into it, as opposed to
just kind of being on the edgebecause of stuff like social
media.
That will create this bubblewhere that's all you're seeing.
If that's all you're seeing issomebody who was already
susceptible, already feelingisolated, then you may go down
(31:02):
this rabbit hole and then peoplearound you are like oh my gosh,
this is wow, this is huge.
Where you know, maybe inprevious generations it would
never have gotten that bad.
It would.
It was still there, you werestill that person at your core,
but because you didn't haveTikTok feeding you all these
videos about it, you may nothave gotten so involved in it.
(31:23):
But yeah, this is definitelysomething we're going to cover.
So something I want to go backto, though, with the Sigma males
, is that I found an interestingcontradiction in here.
So again, the Sigma male, he'snot an Alpha male, he's not
within the Alpha-Beta hierarchy,he's none of that.
(31:46):
He's completely nonconformist.
He's a complete free thinker.
If you are actually that typeof person, you're not calling
yourself a Sigma male, becauseyou're confident in who you are
and you're not trying to fitinto a little box and you're not
trying to scream to the wholeworld about how cool and
(32:07):
mysterious and independent andstrong you are.
You just are.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
I think that just kind of comes down to that.
Everybody wants to belong.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
And I get that, and I get the whole point of having
different names for differentpersonalities or different
groups, so that you can say I'man A, but I'm not an A and I'm a
C.
You're allowed to be multiplethings.
That's absolutely okay.
But I think in this particularcase, the people who are running
(32:42):
around calling themselves aSigma male have completely
missed the point of what a Sigmamale probably technically
really is.
I mean, elon Musk likes to belike I'm a Sigma male.
No, you're not.
Musk likes to be like I'm aSigma male no, you're not.
(33:02):
You cannot, as everything we'vejust talked about.
If you're going to run around onstage doing Nazi salutes,
revving a chainsaw, talkingabout how comedy we got to bring
back comedy, why is it he said,I don't even care, Fuck that
man.
You're constantly braggingabout your wealth.
You're constantly braggingabout what you can do.
There's nothing private aboutyour life.
(33:25):
That is not a Sigma male, quitefrankly.
That's Alpha male bullshit.
Right there, the struttingaround I'm so cool, you know,
drawing attention to yourself,that's that.
That would not be a sigma male.
Again, see the like.
Very introverted, very focusedon yourself, on your own things
(33:52):
oh fuck the other just forcontext, the other kind of like
names that I have seen tossedaround as contemporary real life
quote unquote Sigma males arethe Muskrat, as we just said
Steve Jobs, keanu Reeves andDavid Bowie.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
That is like a huge range of Right.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Even cutting out Muskrat, just looking at Steve
Jobs, kenner, he was David Bowie.
That's a little bit more, butstill I don't-.
If you just gave me those threenames and said what do these
people have in commoncharacteristic-wise, I would
struggle yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
I would struggle yeah .
Speaker 1 (34:37):
And I also don't see these people calling themselves
that, which again goes back tomy previous point of like.
If you actually are this, youdon't say it.
So there's no way to really beable to know and be like.
This person is a whatever,because they're not proudly, you
know, stamping it on things andlike putting giant you know,
(34:58):
I'm a Sigma male bumper stickerson their car Because they don't
need to.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Because, especially like Keanu Reeves and David
Bowie, like they both very muchwere aware of the people
surrounding them that helpedthem get to where they are.
Yeah, the people surroundingthem that helped them get to
where they are, yeah, like, yeah, they might be the single male,
uh, the the bachelor type, butit doesn't mean that they were
(35:28):
just like I got here on my own.
No, they, they, they recognizethe importance of community,
especially especially fuckingkeanu right, it's.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
You know.
Just because you're introvertedagain see all the other points
I made that does not make you.
There's so much that goes intoit.
I really think that this is.
These names that people aretossing around are just people
that they would.
The internet would like to be aquote-unquote sigma male
because it's somebody that theywould like to look up to and
(35:59):
they want to be able to be like.
Oh, it's this person, I want tobe like him, cause that's cool.
Then just say it, just be like.
I want to be like David BowieProblem solved.
You don't need to make DavidBowie a Sigma.
I don't think he would havewanted that.
So where do you see us goingfrom from here with Sigma males?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Just kind of from what you're saying, like it
doesn't even sound like itreally exists.
That is just basically likesomebody saying that I mean, I
could call myself a Sigma male.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
You know I'm very introverted and you don't care
what people necessarily thinkabout you.
You're going to do what youwant to do.
You're focused on yourself,bettering yourself, kind of like
, within your little lane.
I mean, yeah, by thosestandards I would agree.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
But would I ever call myself a Sigma male?
Fuck, no, you know, like I'm,I'm.
I'm going to get you a bumpersticker that says that Should I
put it next to the Toxic CookingShow bumper sticker that I have
?
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yes, do you still have the dog, dad one?
Speaker 2 (37:09):
I love my Puggle.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
There we go.
I knew you had something abouta dog on yours.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Beautiful, beautiful.
But yeah, I, I think that isjust.
It sounds like another bullshitlabel that guys are giving
themselves, kind of like the thealpha male, where it's been
debunked that there is no suchthing as an alpha male, that
let's call for what it is.
You're just a dick, you know.
(37:40):
And there are many forms ofbeing a dick and all of them
want to say, like you know, likeI'm being a dick because I'm an
alpha male.
It just sounds like a labelthat people kind of put on
themselves to justify their wayof doing things.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
I would agree with that because I think that in
general you are who you are andobviously there's some fluidity
in that.
If you're introverted, howintroverted are you feeling in
any given moment?
And you can kind of pushyourself outside of your limit
and be a little more extrovertedhere, or you can withdraw and
be more introverted in this typeof situation or in this period
(38:24):
of your life.
But more or less, if you are acertain way, if you're the type
of person who doesn't like thelimelight, that's not going to
change.
You're not going to suddenlywake up one day and be like I'm
going to be a star baby.
We all know those people whohave always wanted to be front
(38:44):
and center.
There are certain type ofpeople like that and there are
certain people who absolutely donot want to be front and center
.
And if you're somebody wholikes the limelight, that's okay
.
If you're somebody who cares alittle bit about what people
think about you, that's okay.
This honestly gives me in-logvibes.
I guess it would be in-lob, notlike other boys, if you have to
(39:10):
say oh, I'm not an alpha male,I'm a cool alpha male, or I'm a
sigma, which means I'm reallymysterious, you're really trying
to separate yourself, whichmeans you do actually care what
people think about you.
Which seems to be a vital rulein being a Sigma is you don't
care what society, what otherpeople think you do what you
(39:33):
feel is right and you go fromthere.
So yeah, I don't think theyexist.
In a weird way, I mean.
I think we're going to continueto see it at kind of a low level
in the media, because itdefinitely is positioned as
something really cool and reallysomething that you want to be.
(39:54):
I was reading, like thesevarious men's websites about
Sigma males and doing theresearch for this and a lot of
them talked about again this isa very rare type of man, but it
definitely came across as thisis a super cool dude.
You want to be this dude, butif you are having to work to be
(40:19):
that dude I don't think you areand that's okay.
We don't all have to be thesame.
Imagine that.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Yeah, yeah, I don't see this going too much of
anywhere, is I think?
Like I said, I think it's justpeople who want to give
themselves a label and they justlook at the coolest label, that
that they can find, and thenthey try to match those
(40:55):
qualities.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, that doesn't make you that person.
If you're just aiming for thequality to be like I, shall do
this.
You haven't understood that.
It is who you are and you couldprobably learn if you're close
you could lean into that.
But I don't think that type ofperson is out here searching how
do I become a Sigma male?
Yes, I looked that up.
(41:18):
I have to wonder sometimes whatGoogle thinks about us when
we're doing research for theseshows.
I worry On our scale oftoxicity.
Where would you put the Sigmamale?
Is he a green potato?
Make you a little sick if youeat it, but you can just scrape
(41:40):
off the green parts and you'llbe fine.
Is he a death cap mushroom 50,50 chance of death or coma, even
if it's been cooked?
Or is he a delicious but deadlylast snack, especially when
mixed with lime jello antifreeze?
Speaker 2 (41:57):
mean, if you go by the actual definition of a Sigma
meal, I would have to say it'sprobably antifreeze, because
again, the first thing thatcomes to mind is the fucking
Joker, If you actually want togo by the definition.
But these guys who are callingthemselves Sigma meals, it's
(42:18):
fucking green potato, it's justlike okay, that's nice.
Shut the fuck up.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Next.
That just sums it up perfectly,because, as I was writing this,
I was struggling to think aboutwhere I would put it.
It's like, on the one hand, thisis super, super toxic, on the
other hand, I think, real peoplewho are just living their life
(42:45):
and have no clue that this typeof thing exists or not striving
for it.
I don't think it's necessarilytoxic at all.
I think you can be independent,free-thinking, introverted and
be a completely normal personand not have any problems.
But when you were activelyseeking to promote this and when
you're really pushing this islike this is the best way to do
(43:09):
stuff, I think that gets really,really toxic.
I mean, I have watched somebodyin my life who completely went
down this path and went frombeing a very I think he's still
in, I don't know where he is nowvery outgoing person, love to
hang out with people, love totalk with them, and he kind of
(43:30):
got this idea that he needed tobe a businessman with a business
plan.
He couldn't tell anyone becausehe needed to be mysterious
about it and he just he shuteveryone out of his life because
he was so focused on beingindependent.
It had to be a hundred percent.
Him Didn't want to talk toanyone about the ideas and then
when he did talk to people aboutthem, they were like my mans,
(43:53):
that's, that's, that's not agood idea, and he would get very
, very upset about this becausethis was his idea.
I was like but these are yourfriends and not listening to
whatever society said.
He really went hard on that.
(44:21):
If society tells you no, they'reagainst you, they don't like
people who don't conform andthey're trying to take you down.
Look, sometimes that is true.
Sometimes it's because you havea dumb fucking idea.
I'm really sorry, but you do,and everyone around you is
trying to tell you this andtrying to help you out.
(44:42):
Nobody was being nasty, but hereally doubled down and he lost
quite a lot, like just in hislife, of stuff that he had built
up.
He lost a lot because hewouldn't listen to anybody and
all of a sudden it was like ohshit, I'm out of money, I don't
have a visa, I don't havefriends like that.
(45:04):
It can really get to that pointquite quickly.
That was only within about liketwo years that that happened.
Damn, yeah, it's, and that'swhy it can be extremely toxic.
So I think, yeah, somebody whois striving and I don't know if
he would have considered himselfor does he's still alive.
(45:25):
If he does consider himself aSigma male.
I wouldn't be surprised if thatwas something that he felt
drawn to calling himself, andthat is a perfect example of
Anna freeze, the people who arejust, yeah, it's who they are
green potato yeah I think thisis the first time we've had such
a a big split in there, but itis somehow both.
(45:51):
so if you know anybody whoidentifies as a sigma male, or
if you yourself identify as aSigma male, we would love to
hear from you.
You can write to us at toxic,at awesome life skillscom.
Also, if you're in the U?
S and you're listening onSpotify, um, I think you can use
that like send us a textfeature.
Somebody did that.
They sent us hate, mail so justsaying that worked really well
(46:17):
so just saying that workedreally well.
Good times good times it waslike a shocking email to see
come in.
I was like, oh fuck, Our firstpiece of fan mail.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
And the website was so excited.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
It's like you got mail Fuck you.
That was pretty much it, yeah,but you can write to us there.
You can also find us onnon-toxic social media.
We are on Facebook, we are onInstagram and we technically
have a Blue Sky account,although nothing has been
published yet.
Gee, I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Not going to mention names.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Not going to mention names.
Definitely Molly's fault.
So until next week.
This has been the Toxic CookingShow.
We'll see you then.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Bye.
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people intotheir simplest ingredients.
I'm your host for this week,lindsay McLean, and with me is
my fantastic co-host.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Christopher Patchett, LCSW.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Today's topic is the quote-unquote rarest kind of
male in the manosphere, theSigma male.
Have you ever heard of Sigmas?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I remember coming across them a couple times when
we were doing our earlierepisodes of like the alpha male
and the simp and things likethat.
I don't really remember a lotof that.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, I had heard the term.
I don't know if it was eitherin researching that or just kind
of on the internet.
I think both.
It does appear to have appearedaround the late 2010s, I see,
you know, 2017, 2018 kind ofpopping up around in there.
So the Sigma male is a solitarymasculine man.
(01:17):
He is outside of the alpha betahierarchy and he's the quote
unquote lone wolf type personwhich already we have debunked
this.
If you want to hear us as babypodcasters which I don't
recommend- you can go back to.
(01:37):
I think it's our second everepisode was the alpha male.
Yeah, it was there's like theget to know us episode, and then
I'm pretty sure the the nextone that we've released was the
alpha male, so yeah, you want tohear us struggling, you can go
listen to that, but in that weor you rather debunked the lone
(02:04):
wolf.
So the lone wolf idea is Ibelieve and correct me if I'm
wrong when we studied a bunch ofwolves that were held in
captivity and we're like wow,there's like a pack leader and
there's one that does this andone that does that and kind of
(02:27):
assigned them these roles withinthe pack.
But that was held in captivityand then researchers went out
and they watched real wolves intheir natural environment and
they were like damn, they'rethis alpha male like lone wolf
thing doesn't really exist Idon't remember there being like
the lone wolf, like I rememberwhen they said, like the alpha
(02:48):
male was like the it's like thepack leader.
Yeah, and that's.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, the pack leader .
And and then, yeah, just as yousaid, when they actually looked
at them in in the wild, that itwas all total bullshit, that
each wolf had a part of their,you know, within the family and
everything like that, and bothhad equal jobs yeah, and I'm
pretty sure I've read at somepoint.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I thought this was that, and now I'm regretting
that I didn't check this.
So sorry to everyone, butwolves do live in packs, which
implies that, like in general,you're not going to have a
single wolf that's like outthere doing its thing on the
regular.
That usually means somethinghas gone wrong.
There are animals, of course,that they're solitary and just
(03:32):
vibing by themselves.
That is usually not a wolf,though, and I also want to point
out that this whole we'reoutside of the alpha beta
hierarchy.
You pick the name.
That's a greek letter, likealpha and beta.
That puts you within thehierarchy.
You were within that, thatlittle, that group, and I I get
(03:55):
it.
You know, myers-briggs typesjust aren't cutting it anymore.
The gays get to call themselvesfun names and have colorful
flags.
Like me, as a straightmasculine man, I want to have
fun too.
All right, calm down, buddy,you can have a cool name.
That's the vibe I get from alot of these.
Like I'm an alpha male, I'm a,a delta, an omega because there
(04:18):
are more, by the way yeah, yeah,yeah yeah, there appear to be
about like six different types.
I think it was like alpha, beta,sigma, delta, omega and zeta.
They're all in there.
It's just like but okay, sigmais somehow not part of that
hierarchy, even though it is.
(04:39):
But okay, we're, we're too coolfor school, we're not going to
be part of it, right?
So common Sigma male traits arethat you're fairly introverted,
you're very independent, you'rea free thinker and very
(05:01):
nonconformist.
Those are the ones you see popup the most when you look up
like who is a Sigma male or whatis a Sigma male?
And basically it's somebodywho's just, you know, doing,
doing their thing, vibe, andspending a lot of time by
themselves.
An alpha male, but cool is thevibe that I get that you know
you would.
The type of person who callsthemselves this and we'll get
(05:22):
into that later sees themselvesin this way and you can see this
in examples of who are Sigmamales.
And it's very interesting thatyou don't see a lot of current
Sigma males.
You don't see a lot of peoplerunning around calling
themselves this, but you seethis a lot.
(05:43):
People identify characters inmovies.
So classic examples James Bond,john Wick, bruce Wayne, rambo,
like.
This is your quote unquoteSigma male, the good alpha guy.
I need to stop using myjudgmental tone.
I'm trying to be trying toprovide like all different sides
(06:06):
and I hear myself judgingalready.
But yeah, you know, if you haveto kind of point out you're
like, we're like them, but cool,but good, again, that means
you're within the hierarchy yeah, that's yeah, I mean like, okay
.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So like I mean bruce wayne, like I, you, wayne, I
grew up as a comic book lover.
He was just his own person.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I mean really, there's no classification for
him.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
I also want to point out again these are fictional
characters.
Yeah, these are not real peopleliving their natural, authentic
selves.
These were creations ofsomebody's mind and I think that
it's also telling that not onlyare they fictional characters,
but many of them are kind ofappear in a set period of
(07:00):
American history.
You don't find a lot of currentexamples of the Sigma male,
james Bond, like that's.
You know, bond does Bond things.
I get that he's been around forforever because we just like
put a new actor in each time,but still, you know the classic
James Bond.
(07:21):
That's a set time period thatwe are out of classic James Bond
.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
That's a set time period that we are out of.
Yeah, when I think of classicJames Bond, I think of 1960s.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yep.
Of those common traits that Ilisted, on the surface I think a
lot of them appear prettynormal.
If somebody came to me and said, yeah, I'm introverted, you
(07:57):
know, if somebody came to me andsaid, yeah, I'm introverted,
I'm pretty independent, I liketo do my own thing, that does
not immediately send alarm bellsringing in my head.
Or if I meet that type ofperson, I'm not immediately like
, oh, that's a walking red flag.
Combined in the right way, theyactually have the real
potential to cause some issues.
And starting with thenon-conforming, free thinker
part, because that's what reallycaught my attention when I was
looking into this Curious tohear your take as a man.
Men seem desperately to want tobe cool and unique and
(08:26):
mysterious.
This seems to be something thatthey really want, and there's
this obsession with being theman who doesn't.
I'm doing the voice again.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I need to not.
That lasted all of about threeminutes Right, non-judgmental?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Yes, that's me.
There seems to be thisobsession with being the type of
guy who doesn't take no for ananswer.
He does things thequote-unquote wrong way but gets
to the right end Again.
Think back to those examplesthat I used of you know, like a
James Bond or a John Wick, thatthey may do really
(09:09):
unconventional things and theremay be people telling them like
no, don't do that.
And they go ahead and do itanyway and the right thing
happens because they didn'tlisten to anybody.
People were telling them not toand they went ahead and they
did what they thought was rightand good things happened.
Why are men so obsessed withthis?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Let's see, get ready to hate me in five, four, three,
two, one.
Remember the episode that I did, I don't know, maybe about
three, four months ago?
No, what women Want, uh-huh,and the whole idea of I want a
(09:52):
guy who's aggressive but not tooaggressive.
I want a guy who, well, if thewhole thing is that aggression,
that go-getter type thing, youcan't have a guy who is a real
go-getter and who listens.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
This is very true.
I think it's a very hard lineto walk and I get it.
It's the same thing withconfidence.
I think we've talked aboutbefore that women like
confidence.
But it's where do you draw theline between I'm confident and
I'm overconfident?
Because when you cross intooverconfident that's bad
territory, but somehow you haveto get up high enough, but not
(10:37):
too high, but not too low.
And I think this is one ofthose things where you know
somebody who would want toidentify themselves as a Sigma
male is trying to figure out,where they're trying to find
this right balance between beingcool and mysterious and getting
everyone's attention, but alsobeing mysterious but getting
(11:00):
their attention.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
You know, and and again, this kind of comes down
to you know, as somebody who isvery much out there, very much
the type of person that I, ifI'm hurt, I'm going to let you
know.
If you know, that's just theway that I am.
I have heard that you don'thave to tell me everything or
(11:25):
leave a little bit to a mysteryand it's just like okay, well,
you know, you, you, you can'thave somebody who's who's open
and honest with you and at thesame time, have like a a mystery
to them yeah, it's one way orthe other, it's, it's, yeah,
it's one way or the other, yougot to pick and choose at a
(11:48):
certain point.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, yeah, and with the Sigma male, I think this is
again one of those things whereyou can have somebody who is,
you know, maybe not open all thetime, so they're a little
mysterious, but it's notnecessarily a bad thing.
It's also not necessarily a badthing when you have somebody
who identifies.
As you know, I'm a free thinker, I'm non-conforming to society,
(12:12):
but there's you got to becareful with that, because
here's the thing you need acommunity.
Social pressures exist for areason.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
You know, it's funny that you brought up Batman
earlier, because somebody, youknow, the thing that I come to
mind is somebody who's a mystery, somebody who doesn't conform
to society.
I mean, half of Bruce Wayne wasall about the business I owned
and he was a business owner andthings like that.
He had just this other half tohim.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
He also has a fucking community.
He has what's his, is it Alfred?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, he also has Alfred, he has a Robin, he has
so the.
The thing that actually comesto my mind when you're talking
about, like the, the Sigma male,is the Joker.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Sigma's everywhere Like no.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
He's mysterious.
I don't know if he's laughingat me or if he's going to kill
me.
He's the lone wolf.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
You're not wrong, I can definitely see it and I
think this is something that, ifyou look at those examples I
gave, they all have help.
James Bond has help.
He's got what's-his-facedeveloping all the weapons for
him.
Yeah, that all of these peoplehave actually a community and
they have support.
They're not just acting ontheir own with no regard to
(13:41):
anyone else.
That is a twisting of thoseideas that I think people over
time have kind of forgotten.
They see it's like oh, he doeseverything by himself, a hundred
percent.
No, he doesn't.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Oh God.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
There's always somebody there.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Especially in today's world.
It's pissed me off more andmore every time that you know I
got here on my own and it's justlike.
No, you actually didn't, no.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
You really didn't?
Yeah, you did.
There are so many factors thatgo into it that you have just
forgotten or that aren't obviousor whatever, but almost
guaranteed, every single one ofus has gotten here through the
help of others.
Actually guaranteed 100%.
Yeah, there's no way.
Every single one of us hasgotten here through the help of
others.
Actually guaranteed 100%.
There's no way.
There are things that you do onyour own, but in general, you
(14:31):
are as good as your communityand that's why it's so important
to not completely isolateyourself and be like I'm a lone
wolf doing my lone wolf thingsand I don't need my friends, I
don't need a community, I don'tneed a community, I don't need
anyone to help me becausethey're going to tell me that
I'm wrong.
If people are judging you andpeople are telling you that
(14:53):
you're wrong, it is actuallyimportant to take a step back
and analyze why, and that's notto say, as soon as somebody says
, hey, that's a stupid idea,you're like oh man, you're right
, I shouldn't do this.
But when you have yourcommunity which you should have
and you come to them with anidea, if they're all telling you
(15:14):
hey, man, I don't think that'sa really good idea.
If I suddenly was like you knowwhat Fuck it, I'm going to sell
all of my worldly possessionsand I'm going to move to
Thailand to start training inMuay Thai.
I would hope that you know you,as my friend of 14 years, would
(15:39):
probably try and talk to me.
Actually, is it 15 years?
It's almost 15 years at thispoint.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Oh, my God, god, not yet it will be no, yeah, it will
be here in in about like sixmonths, september, ish oh my god
.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
But you know, I I would hope that you and my other
friends would, at the veryleast, like, kind of ask me some
questions and try and talk tome about to understand what it
is that has, you know, convincedme that I must do this.
And I would also hope that youwould, you know, try and talk me
through what are the pros, whatare the cons of you doing this.
That's why it's important tohave this community that is Nope
(16:17):
, nope.
No, I should get it.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I would say I think you should do it.
It would make greatentertainment for me.
See and that right there tellsme this is a bad idea.
This is why we have friends.
I'm like, I'll pay to get youto Thailand and you're like okay
(16:43):
, something's definitely notgood here.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I feel like I'm being used for fun, but but that's
exactly as you talk to thepeople around you when you're
making these big decisions and Iwould hope that the people in
your life are there for you.
And certainly at this point inmy life I have made sure that
the friends that I have, thatI'm really close to, don't feel
(17:08):
bad about calling me out if I dodumb shit in relationships, if
I do just dumb shit in life.
They will question me, theywill let me know if they think I
am doing the wrong thing.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Now will you listen?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Oh, absolutely not wrong thing now?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
will you listen?
Speaker 1 (17:30):
oh, absolutely not, but at least, at least we are
there to tell you that you'redoing some things exactly.
So it means that you're notjust completely flying by the
seat of your pants, thinkingthat everything is hunky-dory
and then suddenly it's not.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
You're like I didn't see this coming you're just
sitting around thinking that I'mdifferent Because I am
different.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I'm going to make it work.
Okay, I'm special.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Not that I would ever do that either.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
No, of course not.
But it is important to havethis network of friends, of
confidants, people that you workwith.
It doesn't have to be you know,somebody you've known for 20
plus years.
It's just people that are therefor you and understand what it
is that you're doing.
And you can have differentfriends for different things,
like within my friend group, forexample.
I probably tell everybody aboutlike 80% of the same stuff
You're all getting you know thebig stories, but there are some
(18:25):
friends that I may talk about awith that I wouldn't talk about
that with somebody else, butsomebody else I would talk about
B and just you know, withinthat, because we have different,
our friendships came about indifferent ways.
We have sometimes differentinterests, different links to
each other.
That's a good thing.
Different knowledge, differentknowledge yeah, there are
friends who you know have movedhalfway across the world and
(18:48):
have dealt with that, and so youcan talk to them about that
type of thing, whereas a friendwho hasn't, you know I might not
bring that up as often becauseyou don't have that base, and so
you're like, wow, sounds bad.
Sorry, I can't.
You know, I can commiserate, Ican sympathize with you, but I
(19:13):
can't empathize if you listen toone of our previous episodes
no-transcript it bounce ideasoff of make sure you're not
doing dumb shit and insistingthat you can do whatever you
want because you're a freethinker who doesn't take crap
from anybody else.
You're a strong, independentman.
That is how you end up aloneand dead.
Sorry to bring the mood downreal fast there, but it's true.
(19:38):
That is very true.
It's true.
That is very true Because menare already just.
In general, men are moreresistant to going to the
doctors if there's somethingthat's wrong of kind of taking
care of themselves in general,like health-wise stuff.
They often struggle to formdeep friendships and bonds with
(20:00):
other men, which means that theyare far more likely to be
lonely.
Not all men, for once we cansay that here but I think it is
a common theme that men are morelikely to do this.
So if you already have somebodywho identifies as very
independent, as nonconformist,as free thinking, I think they
(20:22):
are far more likely to be thistype of person, which means they
are far more likely to end upin a really bad situation
because they didn't want to goto the doctor, they thought they
could handle it on their ownand now they've got like a
horrific infection.
They're really, really sick.
They broke a bone that did notset properly because they
refused to go to the doctor.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
There was something that was preventable or
treatable at a certain stagethat was not caught in time
because they were like no, no,no, I'm using my judgmental
voice there, you know, and it'sunbelievable, like, thank God,
you know, guys are not down tothe point where they feel a
(21:02):
little bit of a chest pain andthey avoid going to the doctor.
For you know, two weeks andwhat could have been just a
simple.
Here's a medication to clear up, like a little bit of fluid in
your lungs, that same personlanding it so bad that there's
fluid inside and outside oftheir lungs and they end up in
(21:24):
the hospital for two weeks.
Thank God that never happens.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
No, that never happens.
So, go on.
That was beautiful, by the way.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
You know what?
In my defense, I will say thisI do blame the Navy for this,
because of the fact that youcould have your head chopped off
and it's like.
Stop being a pussy.
Here's two Tom dolls and drinksome water.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
But that kind of plays into you know you're
supposed to be a strong,masculine man who takes care of
yourself, who's independent, hedoesn't need help from other
people.
And you get into that mindsetand yeah, then it is hard to
accept help, it's hard to acceptmedical help, it's hard to
accept help realizing that youmay not physically be able to do
something anymore, that you arestruggling to do certain tasks,
(22:20):
even not just physical stuff,but maybe something at work,
maybe something in your life.
If you feel like you have to behyper, independent and hyper,
you know all on your own youwill not go to other people for
help and problems will just getworse.
It does not make the problem goaway.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, yeah not make the problem go away.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
So there's there's that.
Then there's also the fact thatsocial pressures exist for a
reason.
You know.
There are a lot of bad faithactors.
So they're out there andthey're only held back because
they would be punished If theydid what they wanted.
Driving is a great example.
If there were no speed limits,if there were no driver's
(23:04):
license, no tests, nopunishments for doing whatever
it is you want to do in your car, do you know how bad the roads
would be?
It would be like New York City24-7.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Having lived in New York City, that's true.
Actually, who's worse, la orNew York, because you've lived
in New York City?
Speaker 1 (23:22):
That's true.
Actually, who's worse, la orNew York, because you've lived
in both.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Each has their own disadvantages.
New York is more crowded so ittakes a long time to get from
point A to point B, which mightbe four or five miles.
Yeah, la is not as crowded butit's more spread out.
Time to get from point A topoint B, which might be four or
five miles.
(23:49):
La is not as crowded but it'smore spread out, so you're
sitting in traffic for the sameamount of time to get to a job
that is 15 miles away, becauseeverything is just so spread out
like that.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah, but both of them are just known for having
horrific traffic.
Horrific that, yeah, but bothof them are just known for
having, like, horrific traffic,horrific drivers yeah.
So yeah, we've all seen likethere are people who still don't
follow those social norms.
Seatbelts Cars didn't used tocome with seatbelts.
Then we put seatbelts in,people said no, thank you, and
they kept on dying and finallysociety had to step in and be
(24:20):
like hey, you, okay there.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
I don't know anybody who doesn't wear their seatbelts
.
What?
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Huh, yes, you know, we wear our seatbelts because it
keeps us alive, and we wear ourseatbelts like the correct way
across the chest because itkeeps us alive.
And we wear our seatbelts likethe correct way across the chest
because it keeps us alive.
And once society was like youhave to do this, there were
people who started doing it.
(24:51):
And then there were people whowere like meh don't care.
And so society had to be likethat's a fine, Now you're
getting pulled over by thepolice officer.
And suddenly people were likeyou know, it's not so bad.
There are reasons why we havethese societal pressures and
rules to force people, to tryand force people.
(25:11):
There are always certain peoplewho don't want to follow.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
And there are certain reasons why we have loud music
to drown out that beeping sound.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Can't believe.
You just outed yourself.
So obviously this type ofsocial pressure is different
from you know, the one that saysthat men have to have a six
pack and women have to wearmakeup all the time.
But I think it's stillimportant to acknowledge the
fact that it's part of the same.
(25:44):
Umbrella of things is that weas a society kind of push
certain things, and sometimes wepush bad things and sometimes
we push good things, but it'sthere for a reason.
So if you simply say I don'tconform, I refuse to conform, I
refuse to listen to what anybodythinks about me, you're going
to be really lonely.
You're going to be reallylonely.
You're going to be likecompletely isolated, which,
(26:06):
speaking of the word of the week, is isolation.
Yay, I need to try and find apositive one.
I think all of mine have beennegative.
We'll get some good ones inthere.
So isolation is when you arecut off from everyone else.
I would say it's a strong formof loneliness, it's what can
(26:31):
lead to being lonely, and it isit's like in the same bracket.
You see what I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
I, you know, and, and one of the biggest things with
isolation is that is likeprobably one of the number one
contributors to depression.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, and death.
We're not meant to be byourselves.
There are definitely people whoare introverted enough.
They're like nope, I'm justdoing my thing over here.
That's a choice.
When you are isolated, it'sless of a choice, and then
you're going to be lonely,you're going to be stressed,
you're going to be depressed andthat's how you end up dead.
Yay, yay, deb.
(27:09):
So yeah, that's why friends andsociety are so important,
because you're only as good asthe people around you and your
community, and that's what willkeep you feeling good, you
feeling connected with people.
You'll be able to bounce ideasoff them, you'll be able to find
(27:30):
a partner, you'll be able tohave friends, you'll be able to
form these connections.
And this male obsession withdoing it all on your own is
extremely toxic.
I mean, look at the maleloneliness epidemic that we are
supposedly experiencing.
This is related to that,because men are not making
friends and men are insistingand I'm talking obviously in
(27:56):
general, like in very largeterms, when I say men here, men
are insisting like no, I've gotto do this myself, I've got to
be a masculine man who'sindependent.
And then he looks around.
He's like wow, I'm 40 and Idon't have a single friend.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Whoops.
Well, so why do you saysupposedly having the epidemic
that we're supposedly having?
Why do you use the wordsupposedly?
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Because I think this has been going on for far, far
longer.
People are talking about itlike it's this new thing that
just appeared in you know 2023or something, and I I think it
goes back further.
I think we've just become moreaware of it.
I do think it is getting worsewith social media, our good
(28:40):
friend, that people who werekind of on that edge are being
pushed it farther into it.
But I think that in general,this idea of not idea, but the
problem that men have of nothaving close friends and bonds
and people to rely on in theirlife, has been going on for far
(29:01):
longer.
We just haven't necessarilytalked about it or realized that
it was sitting there just likebarely covered up.
I mean, think about all of theboomer couples where she does
all of the planning for him.
She makes sure that he goes outto golf, makes sure that he
(29:22):
does this, she organizes abrunch with another couple.
The wives of these men aretaking care of that aspect for
them.
But if the wife was gone, thatman would not be in a place to
do those things himself.
Does that answer your question?
To do?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
those things himself.
Does that answer your question,and I think that this is
definitely something that wewill talk about in a future
episode.
Fuck, but yeah, I think that,yes, it's been an ongoing
problem, but I think that,thankfully, it is being brought
to light.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Just like you hear about, like mental health, you
know, being a thing that will.
Mental health has been a thingsince the dawn of time.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
It didn't just like crawl out of the dark in 2011.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Like ah, I'm the thing, but but it's just the
fact that it's becoming moreacceptable to talk about it and
to be open about it and thingslike that.
So this is pretty much just thesame thing that this has been
an ongoing problem.
It's just that lately it's beengiven more light.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
It's been given more light.
I think it's becomingradicalized Again.
People are being shiftedfurther into it, as opposed to
just kind of being on the edgebecause of stuff like social
media.
That will create this bubblewhere that's all you're seeing.
If that's all you're seeing issomebody who was already
susceptible, already feelingisolated, then you may go down
(31:02):
this rabbit hole and then peoplearound you are like oh my gosh,
this is wow, this is huge.
Where you know, maybe inprevious generations it would
never have gotten that bad.
It would.
It was still there, you werestill that person at your core,
but because you didn't haveTikTok feeding you all these
videos about it, you may nothave gotten so involved in it.
(31:23):
But yeah, this is definitelysomething we're going to cover.
So something I want to go backto, though, with the Sigma males
, is that I found an interestingcontradiction in here.
So again, the Sigma male, he'snot an Alpha male, he's not
within the Alpha-Beta hierarchy,he's none of that.
(31:46):
He's completely nonconformist.
He's a complete free thinker.
If you are actually that typeof person, you're not calling
yourself a Sigma male, becauseyou're confident in who you are
and you're not trying to fitinto a little box and you're not
trying to scream to the wholeworld about how cool and
(32:07):
mysterious and independent andstrong you are.
You just are.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
I think that just kind of comes down to that.
Everybody wants to belong.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
And I get that, and I get the whole point of having
different names for differentpersonalities or different
groups, so that you can say I'man A, but I'm not an A and I'm a
C.
You're allowed to be multiplethings.
That's absolutely okay.
But I think in this particularcase, the people who are running
(32:42):
around calling themselves aSigma male have completely
missed the point of what a Sigmamale probably technically
really is.
I mean, elon Musk likes to belike I'm a Sigma male.
No, you're not.
Musk likes to be like I'm aSigma male no, you're not.
(33:02):
You cannot, as everything we'vejust talked about.
If you're going to run around onstage doing Nazi salutes,
revving a chainsaw, talkingabout how comedy we got to bring
back comedy, why is it he said,I don't even care, Fuck that
man.
You're constantly braggingabout your wealth.
You're constantly braggingabout what you can do.
There's nothing private aboutyour life.
(33:25):
That is not a Sigma male, quitefrankly.
That's Alpha male bullshit.
Right there, the struttingaround I'm so cool, you know,
drawing attention to yourself,that's that.
That would not be a sigma male.
Again, see the like.
Very introverted, very focusedon yourself, on your own things
(33:52):
oh fuck the other just forcontext, the other kind of like
names that I have seen tossedaround as contemporary real life
quote unquote Sigma males arethe Muskrat, as we just said
Steve Jobs, keanu Reeves andDavid Bowie.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
That is like a huge range of Right.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Even cutting out Muskrat, just looking at Steve
Jobs, kenner, he was David Bowie.
That's a little bit more, butstill I don't-.
If you just gave me those threenames and said what do these
people have in commoncharacteristic-wise, I would
struggle yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
I would struggle yeah .
Speaker 1 (34:37):
And I also don't see these people calling themselves
that, which again goes back tomy previous point of like.
If you actually are this, youdon't say it.
So there's no way to really beable to know and be like.
This person is a whatever,because they're not proudly, you
know, stamping it on things andlike putting giant you know,
(34:58):
I'm a Sigma male bumper stickerson their car Because they don't
need to.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Because, especially like Keanu Reeves and David
Bowie, like they both very muchwere aware of the people
surrounding them that helpedthem get to where they are.
Yeah, the people surroundingthem that helped them get to
where they are, yeah, like, yeah, they might be the single male,
uh, the the bachelor type, butit doesn't mean that they were
(35:28):
just like I got here on my own.
No, they, they, they recognizethe importance of community,
especially especially fuckingkeanu right, it's.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
You know.
Just because you're introvertedagain see all the other points
I made that does not make you.
There's so much that goes intoit.
I really think that this is.
These names that people aretossing around are just people
that they would.
The internet would like to be aquote-unquote sigma male
because it's somebody that theywould like to look up to and
(35:59):
they want to be able to be like.
Oh, it's this person, I want tobe like him, cause that's cool.
Then just say it, just be like.
I want to be like David BowieProblem solved.
You don't need to make DavidBowie a Sigma.
I don't think he would havewanted that.
So where do you see us goingfrom from here with Sigma males?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Just kind of from what you're saying, like it
doesn't even sound like itreally exists.
That is just basically likesomebody saying that I mean, I
could call myself a Sigma male.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
You know I'm very introverted and you don't care
what people necessarily thinkabout you.
You're going to do what youwant to do.
You're focused on yourself,bettering yourself, kind of like
, within your little lane.
I mean, yeah, by thosestandards I would agree.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
But would I ever call myself a Sigma male?
Fuck, no, you know, like I'm,I'm.
I'm going to get you a bumpersticker that says that Should I
put it next to the Toxic CookingShow bumper sticker that I have
?
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yes, do you still have the dog, dad one?
Speaker 2 (37:09):
I love my Puggle.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
There we go.
I knew you had something abouta dog on yours.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Beautiful, beautiful.
But yeah, I, I think that isjust.
It sounds like another bullshitlabel that guys are giving
themselves, kind of like the thealpha male, where it's been
debunked that there is no suchthing as an alpha male, that
let's call for what it is.
You're just a dick, you know.
(37:40):
And there are many forms ofbeing a dick and all of them
want to say, like you know, likeI'm being a dick because I'm an
alpha male.
It just sounds like a labelthat people kind of put on
themselves to justify their wayof doing things.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
I would agree with that because I think that in
general you are who you are andobviously there's some fluidity
in that.
If you're introverted, howintroverted are you feeling in
any given moment?
And you can kind of pushyourself outside of your limit
and be a little more extrovertedhere, or you can withdraw and
be more introverted in this typeof situation or in this period
(38:24):
of your life.
But more or less, if you are acertain way, if you're the type
of person who doesn't like thelimelight, that's not going to
change.
You're not going to suddenlywake up one day and be like I'm
going to be a star baby.
We all know those people whohave always wanted to be front
(38:44):
and center.
There are certain type ofpeople like that and there are
certain people who absolutely donot want to be front and center
.
And if you're somebody wholikes the limelight, that's okay
.
If you're somebody who cares alittle bit about what people
think about you, that's okay.
This honestly gives me in-logvibes.
I guess it would be in-lob, notlike other boys, if you have to
(39:10):
say oh, I'm not an alpha male,I'm a cool alpha male, or I'm a
sigma, which means I'm reallymysterious, you're really trying
to separate yourself, whichmeans you do actually care what
people think about you.
Which seems to be a vital rulein being a Sigma is you don't
care what society, what otherpeople think you do what you
(39:33):
feel is right and you go fromthere.
So yeah, I don't think theyexist.
In a weird way, I mean.
I think we're going to continueto see it at kind of a low level
in the media, because itdefinitely is positioned as
something really cool and reallysomething that you want to be.
(39:54):
I was reading, like thesevarious men's websites about
Sigma males and doing theresearch for this and a lot of
them talked about again this isa very rare type of man, but it
definitely came across as thisis a super cool dude.
You want to be this dude, butif you are having to work to be
(40:19):
that dude I don't think you areand that's okay.
We don't all have to be thesame.
Imagine that.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Yeah, yeah, I don't see this going too much of
anywhere, is I think?
Like I said, I think it's justpeople who want to give
themselves a label and they justlook at the coolest label, that
that they can find, and thenthey try to match those
(40:55):
qualities.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, that doesn't make you that person.
If you're just aiming for thequality to be like I, shall do
this.
You haven't understood that.
It is who you are and you couldprobably learn if you're close
you could lean into that.
But I don't think that type ofperson is out here searching how
do I become a Sigma male?
Yes, I looked that up.
(41:18):
I have to wonder sometimes whatGoogle thinks about us when
we're doing research for theseshows.
I worry On our scale oftoxicity.
Where would you put the Sigmamale?
Is he a green potato?
Make you a little sick if youeat it, but you can just scrape
(41:40):
off the green parts and you'llbe fine.
Is he a death cap mushroom 50,50 chance of death or coma, even
if it's been cooked?
Or is he a delicious but deadlylast snack, especially when
mixed with lime jello antifreeze?
Speaker 2 (41:57):
mean, if you go by the actual definition of a Sigma
meal, I would have to say it'sprobably antifreeze, because
again, the first thing thatcomes to mind is the fucking
Joker, If you actually want togo by the definition.
But these guys who are callingthemselves Sigma meals, it's
(42:18):
fucking green potato, it's justlike okay, that's nice.
Shut the fuck up.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
Next.
That just sums it up perfectly,because, as I was writing this,
I was struggling to think aboutwhere I would put it.
It's like, on the one hand, thisis super, super toxic, on the
other hand, I think, real peoplewho are just living their life
(42:45):
and have no clue that this typeof thing exists or not striving
for it.
I don't think it's necessarilytoxic at all.
I think you can be independent,free-thinking, introverted and
be a completely normal personand not have any problems.
But when you were activelyseeking to promote this and when
you're really pushing this islike this is the best way to do
(43:09):
stuff, I think that gets really,really toxic.
I mean, I have watched somebodyin my life who completely went
down this path and went frombeing a very I think he's still
in, I don't know where he is nowvery outgoing person, love to
hang out with people, love totalk with them, and he kind of
(43:30):
got this idea that he needed tobe a businessman with a business
plan.
He couldn't tell anyone becausehe needed to be mysterious
about it and he just he shuteveryone out of his life because
he was so focused on beingindependent.
It had to be a hundred percent.
Him Didn't want to talk toanyone about the ideas and then
when he did talk to people aboutthem, they were like my mans,
(43:53):
that's, that's, that's not agood idea, and he would get very
, very upset about this becausethis was his idea.
I was like but these are yourfriends and not listening to
whatever society said.
He really went hard on that.
(44:21):
If society tells you no, they'reagainst you, they don't like
people who don't conform andthey're trying to take you down.
Look, sometimes that is true.
Sometimes it's because you havea dumb fucking idea.
I'm really sorry, but you do,and everyone around you is
trying to tell you this andtrying to help you out.
(44:42):
Nobody was being nasty, but hereally doubled down and he lost
quite a lot, like just in hislife, of stuff that he had built
up.
He lost a lot because hewouldn't listen to anybody and
all of a sudden it was like ohshit, I'm out of money, I don't
have a visa, I don't havefriends like that.
(45:04):
It can really get to that pointquite quickly.
That was only within about liketwo years that that happened.
Damn, yeah, it's, and that'swhy it can be extremely toxic.
So I think, yeah, somebody whois striving and I don't know if
he would have considered himselfor does he's still alive.
(45:25):
If he does consider himself aSigma male.
I wouldn't be surprised if thatwas something that he felt
drawn to calling himself, andthat is a perfect example of
Anna freeze, the people who arejust, yeah, it's who they are
green potato yeah I think thisis the first time we've had such
a a big split in there, but itis somehow both.
(45:51):
so if you know anybody whoidentifies as a sigma male, or
if you yourself identify as aSigma male, we would love to
hear from you.
You can write to us at toxic,at awesome life skillscom.
Also, if you're in the U?
S and you're listening onSpotify, um, I think you can use
that like send us a textfeature.
Somebody did that.
They sent us hate, mail so justsaying that worked really well
(46:17):
so just saying that workedreally well.
Good times good times it waslike a shocking email to see
come in.
I was like, oh fuck, Our firstpiece of fan mail.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
And the website was so excited.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
It's like you got mail Fuck you.
That was pretty much it, yeah,but you can write to us there.
You can also find us onnon-toxic social media.
We are on Facebook, we are onInstagram and we technically
have a Blue Sky account,although nothing has been
published yet.
Gee, I don't know why.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Not going to mention names.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Not going to mention names.
Definitely Molly's fault.
So until next week.
This has been the Toxic CookingShow.
We'll see you then.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!