January 14, 2025 • 55 mins
Ever wonder why words like "trauma" and "triggering" seem to pop up everywhere online, often in ways that don't quite make sense? On the Toxic Cooking Show, we unravel the digital misuse of therapeutic language Lindsay McClain and co-host Christopher Patchet, LCSW. Together, promise to clarify these buzzwords, exploring how their meanings have shifted from professional therapy settings to casual internet chatter, a phenomenon we call "context creep." By the end of our chat, you'll have a much clearer understanding of these terms and their rightful place in mental health conversations.
Join us on an emotional journey as we break down the spectrum of human feelings, from everyday encounters to life-changing events like a lottery win. We dig into the controversial topic of trigger warnings, challenging common perceptions and sharing insights from studies that suggest these warnings might not be as helpful as they seem. Instead of simply labeling experiences, we advocate for a nuanced understanding of emotional responses, emphasizing the importance of acknowledging the full range of human emotions without jumping to conclusions.
Boundaries are more than just buzzwords; they're essential for healthy relationships and personal growth. In our discussion, we navigate the tricky waters of boundary-setting, illustrating the fine line between control and self-care. From Jonah Hill's infamous boundary-setting in past relationships to the complex trauma narratives proliferating on social media, Christopher and I encourage listeners to question and understand the true meaning of these terms, pushing for personal accountability and informed mental health communication. Prepare to rethink what you know about therapy speak and come away with a fresh perspective on how we talk about mental health in the digital age.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people intotheir simplest ingredients.
I'm your host for this week,lindsay McLean, and with me is
my fantastic co-host.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Christopher Hatchett, LCSW.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
As a therapist.
Had you ever heard of the wordtherapy speak before I mentioned
it to you?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Therapy speak.
I've heard of therapy jargon,you know which is basically
therapy speak okay.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
So it's like when people are using therapy words
outside of a therapy setting,would that be therapy jargon?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
yeah okay, if I were to talk to you about, like
family dynamics and and family,family systems and things like
that.
Chances are, you don't need toknow the ins and outs of
everything during the session.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Just the main points to to kind of get the point
across, and a lot of times we'lljust kind of like bring it into
language that anybody canunderstand.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Okay, so therapy speak is actually different than
than therapy jargon.
So therapy speak is when peopleare taking terms that are
typically used in a therapeuticsetting and they are using them
outside of that.
And at this point, therapyspeak also usually means that
(01:49):
they are misusing them, at leasta little bit.
It's not just like oh hey, Iheard my therapist talk about
this and mention this word, andlike I'm going to tell you about
it.
It's the oh, I've heard thisfrom therapy.
And at this point, it's noteven people themselves going to
therapy and coming out with it.
These terms have escaped thebounds of therapy and are being
(02:10):
completely misused across theinternet, as the internet likes
to do, because we've talkedabout this with gaslighting.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Internet using terms incorrectly.
What no?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
No, they would never.
But yeah, like gaslighting isone of those that you pointed
out back in the day a year agowhen we recorded that one.
That was a term that you see,used a lot on the internet but
being used completely in thewrong way.
Same thing for love bombing.
We'll talk about narcissism atsome point.
(02:46):
These are all terms that have areal meaning that you might go
to therapy for or that you mighttalk with your therapist about.
But the internet was like nowrong, I have something better
that this can be used for,better that this can be used for
(03:09):
.
So you also do see this termkind of in connection with, like
context creep, and that's whereyou have a word or a term that
over time, starts to become ormean something bigger.
So, for instance, it's a normalthing to kind of have happen.
So, for instance, it's a normalthing to kind of have happen
that you have a word, a term, aphrase that means one thing and
(03:29):
over time, like that meaningkind of expands or it starts to
mean something slightlydifferent.
I mean this is completelyunrelated to therapy, speak, but
think about the word gay.
Like gay used to mean, you know, happy and joyful and fun, and
they're actually the place whereI used to work at a summer camp
.
There was another camp near usthat used to be called Camp Gay
(03:52):
Valley and they had to changetheir name apparently at one
point because they were gettinga lot of gay couples, and this
was back in the day truly backin the day, not last year.
That were calling and being likehey, we're interested.
And they're like this is a campfor kids, this is the 80s.
Like absolutely the fuck not.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
So there was a university not that far from us,
so Arcadia University.
I'm sure you heard of it, youknow, since we both went to
Temple.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
University.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
So Arcadia University actually used to be called
Beaver College.
Oh, which was fun and dandyback in the day, uh-huh, um, but
the thing that the main reasonwhy they had to change it was
the internet.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
So parents wanting to send their kids to, uh, you
know, beaver university, youknow?
And being like what the fuck isthis university all about?
Speaker 1 (05:08):
oh, oh no, but those are both like classic examples
of how, like, words changemeaning over time.
What used to be an okay thingand everyone understood what you
meant by it, like now has avery different meaning, and we
all know that.
We're reading a book that, likeyou know, if you're reading
(05:28):
shakespeare and he uses the wordgay, he doesn't mean like gay,
he means, you know, happy andfun and all of that, and same
thing for me.
But you can, within context, westill understand it.
But, yeah, sometimes you'rejust like, oops, let's change it
.
So I have prepared three of theworst offenders for you today.
(05:54):
About therapy speak there,there are a lot, there are so
many out there you, you didn'tmention one.
oh, my god, I cannot wait to getto that one, but I I'm
definitely wanting to hear the,to hear the other main offenders
that you've noticed daily basison the internet and that I have
(06:28):
actually had people either usedirectly on me or I have like
seen them use on people aroundme, and when I say use, I mean
use absolutely incorrectly, like101% wrong.
These are so so common, socommon, so we'll start off with
(06:50):
like triggering, triggeredtrigger warning.
Oh my God, In therapy, fromwhat I understand, triggering is
something.
If something triggers you, it'ssomething that upsets or
frightens you because it remindsyou of a bad past event.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Okay.
On the internet it's anythingthat makes you uncomfortable,
Anything You're triggering meright now it's.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
So, and we'll definitely kind of go into this
a little bit more by like yeah,there is okay, anything could
trigger a person, but theemotions of being uncomfortable
are not a trigger, necessarily atrigger.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Right, and that makes sense.
And I think that, for all ofthese, to me these all have a
firm but kind of fuzzy line asto what exactly is a trigger,
because something that'striggering for you may not be
triggering for me, and that'sokay.
We don't all have to betriggered by the same thing.
But I think what the internethas completely misunderstood is
(08:07):
that it took this term.
It's like, hey, this thing ishappening, and when it happened
before, something reallyterrible happened to me, and so
I'm like, oh fuck, I don't likethis.
And now I'm in a panic mode andit's just downgraded that eight
levels and it's like I don'tlike this thing, I'm feeling
triggered, I'm feeling upset,I'm feeling scared, like I don't
(08:31):
like this, you're triggering meright now.
And so it's used as like a wayto completely shut down the
conversation, to be like I'mjust feeling really triggered.
We can't talk about this, youcan't do that.
You're triggering me right now.
Oh my God, we can't talk aboutthis, you can't.
You can't do that, you'retriggering me right now.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Oh my God, this is something like I I I've sent to
you once before and and youactually helped me out on this
one is, um, when I made thatchart that I can send to my
clients.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Oh yeah, the the one on the motions.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Right, exactly, and and one of the things that I
I've kind of noticed, and one ofthe big reasons why I did make
that chart, was because of thefact that I'll I'll hear
something along the lines oflike, oh my God, you know, my
wife came home late and shereally pissed me off, you know,
and it's like, okay, well, let,let, let's, let's take a step
(09:27):
back.
Did she like really piss youoff?
Yeah, she totally pissed me off.
Okay, so you were, you wereangry and you were yelling and
screaming and there was a giant.
No, I mean, you know, shedidn't, you know like I wasn't
yelling or anything like that,but I was like, so I mean, would
you say that you were more, youknow like, frustrated?
Or yeah, you know it's, it'sannoying, it's frustrating.
I'm like, okay, there is a oryeah, you know it's, it's
annoying, it's frustrating.
I'm like, okay, there is adifference between being, you
(09:47):
know, pissed off and beingfrustrated.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think a lot of these that's
what they're missing is thatslight little nuance.
To be like this is somethingthat, like you know, maybe this
has happened to me in the pastand I didn't like it and I see
it happen again.
I'm like, I don't like thissituation, I'm uncomfortable,
I'm not happy, I'm peeved, I'manxious, but I'm not triggered.
(10:14):
That's, that's up here.
We're down here at this littlebottom level.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
One of the things I kind of tell to people is like
you know, like we, we constantly, we we recognize things as
either being neutral or being atlevel 10 yeah, but we forget,
like all those other levels solike.
One example that I always sayis that if you're at work and a
co-worker comes in and says, youknow, like hey, you know, I
(10:48):
stopped at Dunkin' Donuts, andthen you know I got you a cup of
coffee, that is a level ofhappiness.
Oh, thank you.
You know, that was very nice ofyou.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah, it's probably not a level 10 happiness.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, you know you're not going to be there.
You're like holy shit.
This is the greatest fucking day, you know?
And and the thing is, is thatsame thing with, like, you know,
if you won the 100 milliondollar lottery ticket, you're
not gonna be sitting there andbe like, huh, that's nice cool,
(11:22):
you know.
So, like, yeah, there's gonnabe absolutely different levels
of these things and it's it'sstill falling within the, the
range of happiness.
Yeah, it's just that you knowthe the hundred million dollar
lottery ticket is not going tobe a level one, and your
co-worker giving you a cup ofcoffee is not going to be like
(11:44):
level 10.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, just broaden your vocabulary, kids.
It's partially what it comesdown to.
So, also in connection withtriggering being triggered, all
that are trigger warnings.
I'm sure you've come acrossthis on the internet or in
readings, where people may writelike a capital TW before their
(12:07):
post or something and thenmention like blood, gore, sexual
assault, something like that.
The concept of the triggerwarning is to warn people about
potentially upsetting material.
You know you might be seeingsomething that you're like oh I
really don't like that.
That could trigger you.
Hence the name.
(12:27):
A lot of people really dislikethese because it's something
that, you know, liberalsnowflakes came up with back in
my day.
We just read the book, wedidn't complain about it, type
thing.
But I will say that there havebeen studies that were done on
this.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Okay, I'm interested to hearing.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, I wasn't expecting quite the results from
this, but studies show thattrigger warnings don't mitigate
distress.
On average, when studyparticipants didn't have a
trigger warning, they chose toview the content anyway, not
knowing if it had somethingpotentially triggering in it or
(13:08):
not, and they didn't feeltriggered by it.
But when warnings were in place, people had a quote like
anticipatory emotional response,but they often still chose to
view the content anyway, atleast within the study.
But they often still chose toview the content anyway, at
least within the study.
But they had this responseahead of time by seeing that,
(13:34):
because now you know that thisthing is in there and so now you
may actually be feeling moreanxious going into it.
But in the end there wasn't abig difference in emotional
experience between those whowere forewarned and those who
weren't.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
So I'm kind of curious if, in the scientific
studies, if it was like triggerwarning, we will be talking
about sexual assault versustrigger warning.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Exactly and within this study that was done.
I didn't see examples.
They didn't show examples ofwhat they were talking about.
They also didn't mention if youknow anyone in the group, if
they specifically chosen them.
I'm assuming, as a result, thatthey didn't, because that might
be unethical to be like hey,have you ever had sexual assault
?
Do you want to take part in mystudy?
You've experienced it.
(14:24):
Yeah, come into this room righthere.
That might be a littleunethical to put people in that
situation and then have themread something that mentioned
sexual assault, rape, whatever,or the trigger warning.
So I don't think this is theperfect study, but I do think
it's a start to kind of say thatit may not be as important to
(14:47):
put trigger warnings oneverything as I think a lot of
people have started to do.
It's just like everything getsa trigger warning Everything.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I'm thinking to myself I can watch pretty much
anything, um, but like, so likethe one thing is is, like you, I
can watch horror movies.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
You love horror movies?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I love horror movies and I can, I can watch.
I'm sure you I'm well, beingwhere you are You've seen the
movie or at least heard of themovie hostile.
Yes, at least heard of themovie Hostel.
Yes, and so the entire movie isAmericans who are going out to
God knows where and they go to ahostel that kidnaps them, and
(15:43):
then it turns out to be like atorture, like people are paying
to torture other humans.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I can sit there throughout the entire movie and
watch you know people being, youknow cut up and things like
that, but I refuse to watchmarley and me ah, yes, I can see
why because you know like notthe pet you, you know, you, you,
you can.
(16:11):
You can kill off 50 000 humans,but if you scratch a fucking
dog, I'm like oh my god, no, no,no right, we, we have
boundaries for some of thesethings so just because of the
fact that I know the ending ofMarley and Me, I refuse to watch
(16:35):
it.
So I would think that if I knewthat there was going to be
animal abuse in this video, liketrigger warning graphic videos
of dog abuse, I'm going to belike nope.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, I'm going to skip that one.
Like, nope, yeah, I'm gonnaskip that one.
Yeah, I think it just kind ofopens up the the possibility to
say that maybe we don't needtrigger warnings on everything
that should be pulled back andkind of like, with being
triggered, pick the things thatare really really triggering
animal abuse, rape, you know,and you know, maybe sexual
(17:13):
assault does fall into that toothat you're like this is
something that should be, that'sprobably something that should
be studied as well to like whichare the ones that people may
have an actual reaction to.
But I have seen people demandto have trigger warnings on more
things.
It's like, oh, this needed thetrigger warning.
Or to, you know, there've beendiscussions in schools about
(17:35):
like this book needs a triggerwarning, this book needs to talk
about this.
It's like you have neverexperienced that you are not
coming to the table as asurvivor of of torture, you know
, saying, hey, I don't want toread a book that has torture in
it because of what I physicallymyself went through.
You know, in that case I thinkpeople will be like, oh damn,
respect.
(17:55):
Okay, maybe we don't need tohave this in here, but in
general there's just a weirdkind of push between you know,
gen Z is a lot of it.
I'm not going to blame them forthis, but I will say that
they're kind of the ones thatare really pushing this from
what I see on the internet tosay everything needs a trigger
warning.
And it has a trigger warning.
Like I don't want to, I'm notgoing to read books to have this
(18:17):
, this, this, this and this inthem.
And on the other hand, on theother side, other hand teachers
pushing back and being like well, this is classic literature,
you must read it.
Like surely we can find a happymedium.
Just because it's classicliterature doesn't mean it's not
shit.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
You know the and again, the thing about you know
what I was kind of sayingearlier is that anything can be
a trigger.
Warning or a trigger.
Yeah, you know it's.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
So when you feel triggered by something, you may
fall into trap number two, andthat is demanding that somebody
or something have boundaries.
You are setting your boundaries.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
This is one I definitely love.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Oh, I fucking hate this one.
So in therapy, from what Iunderstand, setting boundaries
(19:24):
is setting a limit for what isand isn't appropriate behavior
in terms of what you willtolerate.
Mother-in-law keep calling me16 times a day and demanding
that I do this and like tryingto run my household, and I'm
setting a boundary that, likethis is my household, we're not
going to do this anymore and ifyou keep doing this, I may you
know I'm going to block yournumber or something like that.
(19:45):
Would that be kind of a correctuse of setting boundaries?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
kind of a correct use of setting boundaries.
So that is a very difficult oneto, because so there was a
thing that jonah hill where hehad mentioned about that or so
an ex-girlfriend of jonah hill'sI had mentioned about how jonah
hill was, uh, making demandsthat she go to the beach, that
(20:18):
she had to wear, like you know,basically covering her entire
body, like she went to.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
She was a surfer right, I remember this yeah yeah
, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
So, like you know, this was something that she was
doing prior to them dating.
And then, all of a sudden, hewas like you know, like hey,
like you know, like I don't wantyour body exposed, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, Right.
And so people like jumped onthem and said, like hey, like
you know, like dude, you can'tfucking do that.
Like you know, like you're acontrolling asshole, yeah.
(20:51):
And then he came back with Idon't know why you're so mad at
me, I'm just setting boundaries.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
This is exactly what I hate about this fucking phrase
is that people use it like that.
They use it to justify refusingto do anything they don't want
to do.
Anything I don't want to do.
It's setting boundaries.
You need to respect myboundaries.
Okay, it's like you don't wantto do it.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Just say that and you know so.
If your boundary is that you?
Want a very conservative girl,like, okay, fine, you know, find
yourself a conservative girl,but you know you can't sit there
and try to change somebody.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
And you also have to accept that if you set a
boundary, that may have futureconsequences.
I mean, I saw this.
So I have a friend who she,with permission, I'm sharing
this story because I know it wasa stressful moment, to say the
least, for her.
She was going to visit hersister and she has a young child
.
And right before they went thesister apparently was just like
(22:05):
hey, so like when you come, I'vegot like a really small
apartment and stuff, so like youcan't have a mess, you can't be
leaving a mess here, like Idon't want toys and stuff, so
like you can't have a mess, youcan't be leaving a mess here,
like I don't want toys and stuffaround, like I can't deal with
that and you need to respect myboundaries.
And so my friend was like thenI'm coming with a small child.
If that is going to be a problembecause it will be I can tell
you right now children have toysand diapers and clothing and
(22:28):
things like that that comes withthem.
If this is going to be aproblem, we can't stay with you
and that may mean that we can'tcome visit, because I wasn't
expecting to have to pay for ahotel room and you're the only
person I know in this city andher sister just threw this
massive fit and was like youneed to respect my boundaries.
She is respecting yourboundaries.
(22:49):
You had a kind of bizarreboundary, but okay, that's fine,
that's your boundary, but youdon't get to have your cake and
eat it too.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
And that's kind of the thing is like okay, you know
, the, the, the friend, okay, ifshe wants to create that
boundary of like no toys andthings like that.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah, okay, but that's fine for you to have that
boundary.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
But at the same time don't expect anybody to cater.
You know, and that's kind ofthe thing is that you know
that's one of the things of aboundary is that you're putting
the ball in the other person'scourt.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
So you know, if, if let's say well, no matter what
side of the fence that you're onpolitically, that you know a
lot of families, especially overthe holidays, say, you know
political talk yeah thanksgivinglike I don't care if you're
(23:55):
democrat, I don't care if you'rerepublican.
No talks about political yeahokay.
So if the person who is hostingnow let's say thanksgiving or
whatever, makes that boundarycool, they're setting that
boundary that in this housethere's not going to be any
political, you know, talks oranything like that yeah and
(24:18):
you're putting the ball into theother, the other person's court
.
So boundary is saying there isno political talking in this
house.
If you want to, you're notgoing to be welcomed here for
Thanksgiving.
So again, you're putting theball into the other person's
court.
If they so badly have to talkabout Trump or Harris or Biden
(24:40):
or whatever, cool, but youalready know you're out that
door.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Yeah, yeah, I see this first one a lot with the
completely misunderstanding ofwhat are setting boundaries.
What's the point of setting aboundary?
And then a close second behindare the people who completely
misunderstand how that has aneffect on them.
If you set this boundary, theother person can say okay and
(25:06):
walk away, and you don't get tobe like, no, you have to come
back and do what I said.
I actually don't get to be like, no, you have to come back and
do what I said.
No, I actually don't.
And that doesn't make me atoxic person for saying I'm not
dealing with this Because youcould, like in the instance that
you gave, I would imagine thatyou know properly setting
boundaries.
The person says, hey, if you'recoming to my house on
(25:27):
Thanksgiving, we ain'tdiscussing politics Like I don't
want that in this house.
I know we have different views,A lot of people coming over.
If you discuss it like I'mkicking you out, you could
choose to be like I want sobadly to say shit about insert
name here, Then don't go, you,you actually can do that.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
And and once that boundary is set, if you do go
and you are talking about insertname here, then that person has
every right to say hey look, Isaid no political talk here, and
if anybody started doingpolitical talk, you need to go.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, no one can get mad about that, except they do,
because people don't like beingtold.
And again, this settingboundaries is such a a nebulous
thing.
And then the third way that Isee this so badly misused is
have you ever seen the term?
I need to protect my peace yes,I, I've seen that I just want
(26:33):
to burn down the internet.
Every time I see somebody usethat.
That is a form of like I'msetting boundaries, like I'm not
going to talk to you becauseyou're being toxic right now.
This is a toxic situation.
It's usually in combinationwith calling something toxic.
They're like I'm settingboundaries, I need to protect my
peace.
No-transcript.
(27:11):
So give me an example of that.
I mean so.
For instance, we're at a familydinner and the host has not
said we can't discuss politics,and so we get into a political
spat about policy or candidatesor something like that, and I
(27:32):
insult you, the, the trump lover, and I'm like well, anyone who
voted for trump, probablyflunked out of high school, is a
fucking idiot.
Like is married to their cousinat least.
Like it's probably the thirdcousin cousin marriage.
Like there was a first cousinmarriage, a second cousin
marriage, a third cousinmarriage.
You know they're like completelyinsulting you, like all the
(27:53):
nasty things, and then you'relike yo, what the fuck?
I have seen people in thatinstance kind of be like no, I'm
gonna set this boundary righthere.
Like you know, I need toprotect my peace.
These are my opinions.
I'm allowed to have my opinions.
I'm setting this boundary that,like you know, know, you're not
allowed to talk.
You just called me a fuckingidiot.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
You don't get to then hide and be like I'm just a
baby.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So so, basically, the theperson who is making all the
insults and when the, the otherperson who's been assaulted is
like you know, like what thefuck?
Oh, no, no, no, no.
We are dropping this because Iwant to protect my peace.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, because I'm setting this boundary that like
you know you don't get to talkto me like that.
You know you're now likeshouting and you're doing all
this and that's crazy.
And like you're doing all thisand that's crazy.
And like you're telling allthese people that I said nasty
things and like I'm cutting youout.
I'm setting this boundary.
Fuck around and find out if youreally strongly believe that
about the person.
Stand by and be like yeah, Isaid that you know so.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
So a boundary is a boundary for a reason um, you
can't set up a boundary only foryour convenience, exactly like
when I think of a boundary, youknow I think of, like the
boundary of this room you know,I can slam myself into the wall
as many times as humanlypossible, but I'm not going to
(29:30):
be able to break that boundary.
Yeah, and same thing for theperson who's outside.
They can smash your headagainst the outside of the wall
and the boundary is there for areason, yeah, so yeah, you can't
go off saying this whole likehorrible thing to somebody else.
If you're saying that this ismy boundary, that I don't want
(29:52):
to have like this giant namecalling debate and that's my
boundary, okay, fine, that'syour boundary, then don't start
but don't, don't be name callingand then say that's it.
I've said everything about badabout you.
Now you can't say anything badabout me.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yeah, you're getting out of control right now.
You started it.
Maybe the other person is, butlike, yeah, you got to.
Boundaries need to be clear.
I see boundaries kind of aslike little bubbles that people
are trying to make their bubblelike smaller and smaller and
smaller to include fewer andfewer people until it's just
them making all the rules, andthat is not a good way to go
(30:35):
through life.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I mean, yeah, I mean I think that if you are making
that many boundaries, then, yeah, you're going to limit the
amount of people that are inyour social settings.
Yeah, that's going to causeisolation and a lot that are in
your social settings.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, that's going to cause isolation and a lot of
other like mental healthproblems and these people get an
instagram post about you know,oh, I'm, I'm taking time for me
to be me like shut up.
You pissed off all your friends.
No one wants to talk to youanymore.
So for our third and final, Ihope you're ready.
(31:18):
Looking forward Trauma oh boy.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Oh trauma.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Trauma, trauma, trauma.
So I will say I have seenpeople start to deal with this
one and talking about traumawith a capital T and trauma with
a lowercase T.
Have you?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
seen that differentiation, thank God, no
Okay.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Trauma with a capital T is real trauma.
I hate to phrase it like that,but it's what we think of as
actual trauma.
So an emotional response to aterrible event usually it looks
like it needs to be sort oflife-threatening, like an
accident, crime, naturaldisaster, something really,
really, really terrible istrauma in the therapy setting
(32:09):
that you survived on theinternet.
It's something I didn't likehappened and I didn't get over
it.
They're the same.
How does that make you feel so?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
and then I'm going to be doing an episode about this
next.
But yes, I think that when,when you talk about like, trauma
, like and and I think you know,just to kind of give you a
preview of next week's episodepeople, people using the term
(32:43):
like, oh my god, like you know,like when, when johnny hurt me,
like I, I, I just it's pts.
I have PTSD from when JohnnyFootball Player, like you know,
like dumped me and it's like youwere hurt.
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, you might have somedifficulties with it, but it's
(33:07):
not PTSD, you know Right, ptsd,you know Right.
So, but the thing is, it's very, very, you know, ptsd is very,
very hard to say what exactlycauses it.
Because, yeah, you know, likesomebody could possibly have
(33:37):
PTSD from Johnny, from johnnyfootball player, jumping them,
sure, but there is a whole guideof what ptsd is, saying
something along the lines oflike, well, ever since johnny
football player, uh, dumped me,like you know, like I, I, just I
, I can't deal with, you know,being lied to.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Okay, that's great, but that's not PTSD.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
No, no, no, no, and it's you know.
I think you could argue thatit's on the scale of PTSD, where
it's like you know, PTSD fromwar or childhood abuse and like
all of that.
That's the real PTSD up here.
(34:23):
But way down on the scale whereit no longer qualifies as PTSD
but like it's still still in thesame bracket.
I think you could potentiallysay like, yeah, my, my ex lied
to me and my ex lied to me foryears and years and years about
stuff, and so now I've got trustissues and so every time I feel
like you might be lying to me,I panic and I do something.
It's like it's again.
(34:45):
It's in the same like chunk,but it's maybe not the same as I
went through a war.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
And again, this, this definitely is going to be
coming up next week but likesorry but, but you know, so
there are.
You know we follow, uh, you know, dsm diagnostic and statistical
manual of mental disorders.
Uh, there are.
You know, certain things thatwe have to look for.
(35:17):
So, okay, she might behypervigilant and looking for
lies and things like that Okay,that's one thing, but you have
to match so many things in orderto actually be diagnosed with
PTSD.
So, okay, you havehypervigilance Great, but you
are not having these intrusivethoughts, you are not having
(35:41):
avoidance and things like that.
So you have one thing, but youneed to match these at least
three other things in thiscluster and certain things in
this cluster.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, and that all just gets like taken out on the
internet, both for PTSD and justfor like trauma in general,
that there may be kind of thislevel that you have to achieve
and I don't know what the DSMsays about trauma have to
achieve and I don't know whatthe DSM says about trauma Like,
if there's a specific diagnosisof trauma, I assume that that
(36:16):
would be PTSD, but the internetlikes the word trauma and PTSD.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
And again that's actually in the DSM is defining
what trauma actually is.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, see, there are actual definitions and there are
criteria that you have to meet,and the fact that your
boyfriend lied to you twice doesnot make you traumatized.
The other, like outside ofrelationships, the place that I
see it that drives me absolutelymental is all those videos on
(36:53):
TikTok and Instagram.
I'm so glad TikTok's gettingbanned hopefully Actually I'm
not but part of me is like youknow what.
Maybe this is a good thing.
It's a cesspool of sin outthere.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Is it being banned in France too?
No, okay.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
I'm still there.
We're here, curious, go ahead.
I can still sin.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
I'm still there.
Curious Go ahead.
I can still sin.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
But the number of videos talking about how we've
all got trauma.
You know, have you ever thoughtabout why you can't remember
your childhood?
It's because you experiencedtrauma and it's your body trying
to repress those terriblememories.
No, I just got shit memory.
I'm just off in my own littleworld, like that's why I don't
(37:37):
remember things.
I did not have trauma.
There was no childhood trauma.
There was no emotional trauma.
You'll see statistics beingthrown around like did you know
that if a child, you know, ifyou meet like 30% of their wants
or needs, then like that'senough for them to be a healthy
(37:58):
adult, to grow up to be a normal, emotionally functioning adult.
That just gets tossed aroundwith like no context and then
people will take that and turnit into.
So that must mean that you know, if you can't remember your
childhood or something like that, then you experience trauma.
It's because your parents wereonly giving you like 10 of your
needs.
It's like wow, I mean when you,when you say it like that, that
(38:20):
sounds horrific but it's nottrue.
It's just it's.
It's completely not true.
They were all running around,carried unhealed trauma which,
by the way, if you ever maket-ex arms, did you know that
that's a sign of unhealedchildhood trauma.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Blah.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Fact.
I saw it on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
So I, I, I.
I'm scared to say this becauseI know that I am going to get
shit from 50% of the therapyworld.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Hot take coming in.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
There is an ongoing battle between therapists.
You have psychoanalytic andthen you also have behaviorist.
I'm more of a behaviorist typeperson also.
Have you know, behaviorist, I'mmore of a behaviorist type
person.
It's kind of the idea of, like,this is a behavior that you're,
that you're showing, what do wedo about this now?
Whereas psychoanalytic will say, okay, I see that let's go back
(39:25):
into your childhood, let's see,like, where this behavior comes
from and you know, kind of gointo that whole aspect.
So you'll always hear likepsychoanalytics who are saying
like, uh, behaviors are areabsolute shit.
And then you always hear likebehaviors who are saying
psychoanalytic is absolute shit.
But with that being said, youknow, this is kind of the
(39:51):
problem that I have with that isthat A plus B plus C doesn't
always equal D in this case.
There are many other factors,you know, that is going to
affect the person, and one ofthose factors is the person
themselves.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
And their childhood trauma that's unresolved so.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
So, just as you said, there are if.
If you can't remember yourchildhood, that means that you
had, you know, childhood trauma.
Well, okay, or it could just bethe fact that you know memory
is not a strong suit in thisperson.
You know, whereas you said thatmemory is not a strong factor
(40:38):
for you, but you know languageis a extremely strong factor for
you, just as memory, like I,can tell you exactly what
happened when it happened whatyou said, and that's a strong
factor for me.
You exactly what happened whenit happened what you said, and
that's a strong factor for me.
But I've taken three years ofspanish wine and all I know is
como esta mi yamos, chris andI'm not even sure if I'm yeah,
(41:14):
yeah, yeah, but again, yes, thatis not my strong suit, as you
can plainly tell exactly.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Everybody's different .
And that's not to say that theperson who truly experienced
childhood trauma might do thelittle t-rex arms.
T-rex arms is one of those thatgets thrown around for like
childhood trauma, adhd autism,adhd autism probably something
else exciting and new that we'llcome up with for like that's.
(41:44):
That's a symptom of that.
It's not to say that justbecause they have their, you
know, they have experienced thechildhood, real childhood trauma
that they're never going to do.
T-rex arms Maybe it's just acomfortable way to sleep.
I'm just saying it's hellacomfortable.
You've never tried it as alover of doing T-Rex arms, but I
(42:07):
don't have childhood trauma.
I can say very confidently,despite the fact that I don't
remember my childhood that muchit's just no, no, there's
nothing that needs to be healed.
There's nothing that I need tolike, figure out.
You know.
That's why I'm having problemshere or there.
I feel like people just kind ofthrow it out there on the
internet Cause it sounds cool,right, to talk about like Ooh,
(42:28):
talk about like ooh trauma.
Trauma is big and scary and ifyou have trauma, then you have
an excuse for why you act.
Badly is what I often see, notwhy you do things well, but why
you don't do X, y, z, why youcan't manage to keep a
relationship.
Oh, it's because I have trauma.
(42:49):
No, you're a needy bitch, sorry, like, and maybe you'll find
somebody who's okay with thatand like props to you and them
for making that work.
Like no shame in being who youare, but you don't get to blame
that on on trauma, like my lastboyfriend or girlfriend didn't
give me what I wanted and solike that's why I act this way.
Okay, then, you need to figurethat out.
That's not trauma, though.
(43:10):
Again, drama is you wentthrough a terrible,
life-threatening event.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
And you survived, but maybe not super well.
And so now you're like, oh God,yeah, that one also.
It appears in so many, so manyvideos.
Thankfully, I have never hadanyone close to me claim trauma.
Smack the shit out of them ifthey did.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Yeah, I concern the fact that I do specialize in
trauma actually, the fact that,like I, I do where I do
specialize in trauma.
Actually, when I see the wordtrauma, like you know, popped up
, I'm just like, oh youmotherfucker, like you have no
idea, you have not a fuckingclue so for all three of these,
(44:03):
I think and this is kind ofconnected to the where do we go
from here?
Speaker 1 (44:07):
I'm gonna just drop this in.
Then I want to hear what youhave to think.
I'm going to blame social mediafor these and say that, like,
where we go from here, like itneeds to be, we need to crack
down on social media, and I getit.
You only have like 90 secondsmax to explain something, and so
(44:27):
90 seconds that you really haveto be concise and like super
focused to be like.
And so 90 seconds you reallyhave to be concise and super
focused to be like.
This is what qualifies astrauma.
This is what does not qualifyas trauma.
This is what setting boundariesis, and 90 seconds is not a lot
of time to make.
A super catchy, exciting drawsyou in video that explains a
(44:52):
concept like this in a way thatpeople are like, oh, got it.
And so I think that people turnto being sensationalist,
because that's what pushes viewsas opposed to actually doing
the ethical thing and using thewords correctly.
But I don't know if you haveany thoughts about where to go
from here.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
I mean, I would say the biggest thing and I agree,
like you know, like actuallyusing the words correctly, um,
words are words for a reason,you know, and words have
definitions for a reason what?
And being able to call outpeople and say like, look,
(45:33):
that's, that's not a boundary,that's you know.
Like Jonah Hill, yeah.
That's not a boundary.
That's you being thecontrolling asshole.
Yeah, but, but yeah, actuallycalling people out on this shit
and I think that that's the onlyway is, yeah, unfortunately,
(45:53):
like I think it's up to thepeople to like really educate
themselves on what these thingsmean yeah, and I will say I have
seen a lot of chatter abouttherapy speak.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
I actually listened to a couple different podcasts
on it, done by realprofessionals, so it's
definitely something that peopleare becoming aware of.
That's like, oh, you're justlike the internet has taken
these terms and ismisappropriating them, misusing
them, like this is not a greatthing, and so trying to get the
(46:26):
information out there.
But, yeah, I think more needsto be done, either to call out
people and also for people toyou know, like us, to talk about
you know what does it actuallymean?
You know what?
What is trauma?
What is setting a boundary?
And for people to have thatinformation.
(46:48):
So, okay, like now, Iunderstand.
And so now, when I see somebodymisusing that, I can, you know,
step back and be like I don'tthink I actually have unresolved
childhood trauma that's causingme to be triggered by
everything I see and need,trigger warnings and to set
boundaries constantly yeah ohyes, it's our favorite.
(47:12):
Where do we go from here?
Education, I feel like most ofours come down to like the
people just gotta know I mean, Imean, and unfortunately that is
the hardest thing I knowespecially in today's world god,
I know.
(47:35):
So on that, uh exciting note,where would you put therapy
speak, ie the misuse of termsthat actually have a real
meaning in therapy, the misuseof them on the internet?
In real life, would you saythat this is a green potato,
(47:56):
it'll make you sick if you eatit, but just scrape off the
green part and it's fine?
Is this a death cap mushroom 50, 50 chance of death, even if
you cook it?
Or is this a delicious butdeadly last snack of antifreeze?
Speaker 2 (48:12):
delicious but deadly.
Last snack of antifreeze I'mgoing to go with a death cap, a
half a cap.
Half a death cap, half thedeath cap.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
I love the fact that we just, you know, make up.
We came up with our own system,and then we were like nah.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
But the reason why I kind of say that is that, yes,
okay, you know, 98% of it isjust people just being stupid,
yeah, and then chalking it outto absolute ignorance.
The thing is is that thoseother two percent is something
like jonah hill, yeah, like Imean, that's you know if, if,
(49:02):
thankfully, the, the, hisex-girlfriend was, saw this as
being controlling, but if youdon't know what a boundary is,
and jonah hill is saying likeyou know, like this affects me
and you know like, uh, thishurts me, and it's just like,
okay, well, obviously she's notthe girl for you, then yeah you
(49:26):
were the one who made that stepto her, so you hurt yourself.
She's not doing anything thatshe hasn't done before.
So that, that's why I do pushit up to a death cap as opposed
to green potato, is because, yes, there are.
there are those 2% where orsomebody who is saying like you
(49:51):
know trauma or something likethat, I've been traumatized and
you know like yeah you know youmight've had a hard time, but if
you're really you know I lovethe expression, tell a lie
enough times it becomes thetruth.
And if you are sitting thereand saying I'm traumatized, I'm
(50:11):
traumatized, I'm traumatized,you're looking around and you
find these things that matchesyour trauma, traumatization then
you know you are going to takeon the effect of somebody who's
traumatized without beingtraumatized.
Period you traumatized yourself.
(50:32):
Yeah, yeah, you basicallytraumatized without being
traumatized.
Period he traumatized yourself.
Yeah, yeah, you basicallytraumatized yourself it's not.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
I'm laughing, it's not funny, but like, yeah, I, I
would agree that I think this isa low death cap mushroom.
I'm not quite sure it's afull-on death cap mushroom and
50 50 chance of death like, butit's more than a green potato,
because I think people hurtthemselves a lot with this.
(51:01):
This is not so much you'rehurting other people, but when
you create this little bubblearound yourself where you're
like, oh, I have this unhealedchildhood trauma and it's really
affecting me and that's why Ican't, you know, having problems
with relationships and withfriendships and with everything
in my life and everything istriggering me, yeah, you are
(51:22):
creating, you are making thatyour reality and that's a sad
reality to live in where youneed a trigger warning for
everything, because everythingstresses you out.
You know you've never actuallyexperienced sexual assault, but
you know you can't read aboutyou.
You need that trigger warningbecause, oh, my God, this is,
this is really really scary.
(51:44):
And it's not just the one thing, it's for blood, it's for gore,
it's for just anything outsideof, like, your comfort zone.
You're making your comfort zonesmaller and smaller and smaller
and smaller, because now youknow you've completely cut that
off, like you don't see anythingthat you don't like, and so as
soon as, like that one littlething comes in, you don't have
(52:05):
the ability to deal with it, andthen you have a complete
meltdown.
You're like I'm traumatized.
Yeah, you may actually be atthis point because you did this
to yourself and so I would.
I would actually think it's morethan just like 2% of people.
I don't think that most peoplego to that extreme, obviously,
but when I think about the sheerprevalence of this stuff that I
(52:28):
see on the internet, it's, it'sgotta be having an effect, and
even even to the point like.
You know what happened with myfriend.
She and her sister are not onspeaking terms at the moment,
not just because of that one ofit, because of other events too.
Is that?
Because one of them kind ofstarted to be like no, you know,
(52:51):
we need to do this, we need todo that.
Like I'm setting theseboundaries and like using this
therapy, speak that that hascreated like a huge rift between
them, because it made thingsreally uncomfortable and sister
refused to work with it and myfriend was like what am I
supposed to work with here?
I don't know how I would loveto, but like I have nothing to
(53:15):
work with here.
I don't know how I would loveto, but, like I, I have nothing
to work with here.
So I think it's more than twopercent.
I know we just had a privatechat the other day about people
who are like, oh my god, this islike the biggest thing in my
life, is it?
Is it really that bad?
I would say probably, I don'tknow a little bit more.
Five.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
I would say yeah, I would say probably like 10 and
then maybe yeah maybe like kindof scatters into, like you know,
uh 15, where it's not as bad.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
So exactly, people have kind of picked up yeah yeah
, but yeah, that's why I'mputting it somewhere in the
death cap much low death cap,mushroom territories.
It's like it can have nastyconsequences, mainly for you.
If you overuse these termswithout understanding what they
are, you're cheapening theexperience for yourself and for
others.
But is it going to kill you?
(54:03):
Probably not.
It's just going to make yourlife really shitty yeah so if
you have ever experienced traumaor you've been triggered by
something or you would like toset a boundary with us, you can
write to us at toxic, at awesomelife skillscom, or you can
(54:25):
write to us on any of our socialmedias, which you should be
following already.
We are on Facebook, we're on X,we're on Instagram, we're on
threads, we're on TikTok, maybenot too much longer yeah.
I was like, oh, there's a fifthone, is there?
Speaker 2 (54:42):
see this.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
I need to get TikTok to be banned.
I can only remember four thingsat one time.
You can let us know there.
Also, if you have any ideas forupcoming episodes, we'd love to
hear them.
Until next time, this has beenthe toxic cooking show.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (54:59):
Bye.
Hi and welcome to the Toxic Cooking Show, where we
break down toxic people intotheir simplest ingredients.
I'm your host for this week,lindsay McLean, and with me is
my fantastic co-host.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Christopher Hatchett, LCSW.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
As a therapist.
Had you ever heard of the wordtherapy speak before I mentioned
it to you?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Therapy speak.
I've heard of therapy jargon,you know which is basically
therapy speak okay.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
So it's like when people are using therapy words
outside of a therapy setting,would that be therapy jargon?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
yeah okay, if I were to talk to you about, like
family dynamics and and family,family systems and things like
that.
Chances are, you don't need toknow the ins and outs of
everything during the session.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Just the main points to to kind of get the point
across, and a lot of times we'lljust kind of like bring it into
language that anybody canunderstand.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Okay, so therapy speak is actually different than
than therapy jargon.
So therapy speak is when peopleare taking terms that are
typically used in a therapeuticsetting and they are using them
outside of that.
And at this point, therapyspeak also usually means that
(01:49):
they are misusing them, at leasta little bit.
It's not just like oh hey, Iheard my therapist talk about
this and mention this word, andlike I'm going to tell you about
it.
It's the oh, I've heard thisfrom therapy.
And at this point, it's noteven people themselves going to
therapy and coming out with it.
These terms have escaped thebounds of therapy and are being
(02:10):
completely misused across theinternet, as the internet likes
to do, because we've talkedabout this with gaslighting.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Internet using terms incorrectly.
What no?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
No, they would never.
But yeah, like gaslighting isone of those that you pointed
out back in the day a year agowhen we recorded that one.
That was a term that you see,used a lot on the internet but
being used completely in thewrong way.
Same thing for love bombing.
We'll talk about narcissism atsome point.
(02:46):
These are all terms that have areal meaning that you might go
to therapy for or that you mighttalk with your therapist about.
But the internet was like nowrong, I have something better
that this can be used for,better that this can be used for
(03:09):
.
So you also do see this termkind of in connection with, like
context creep, and that's whereyou have a word or a term that
over time, starts to become ormean something bigger.
So, for instance, it's a normalthing to kind of have happen.
So, for instance, it's a normalthing to kind of have happen
that you have a word, a term, aphrase that means one thing and
(03:29):
over time, like that meaningkind of expands or it starts to
mean something slightlydifferent.
I mean this is completelyunrelated to therapy, speak, but
think about the word gay.
Like gay used to mean, you know, happy and joyful and fun, and
they're actually the place whereI used to work at a summer camp
.
There was another camp near usthat used to be called Camp Gay
(03:52):
Valley and they had to changetheir name apparently at one
point because they were gettinga lot of gay couples, and this
was back in the day truly backin the day, not last year.
That were calling and being likehey, we're interested.
And they're like this is a campfor kids, this is the 80s.
Like absolutely the fuck not.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
So there was a university not that far from us,
so Arcadia University.
I'm sure you heard of it, youknow, since we both went to
Temple.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
University.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
So Arcadia University actually used to be called
Beaver College.
Oh, which was fun and dandyback in the day, uh-huh, um, but
the thing that the main reasonwhy they had to change it was
the internet.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
So parents wanting to send their kids to, uh, you
know, beaver university, youknow?
And being like what the fuck isthis university all about?
Speaker 1 (05:08):
oh, oh no, but those are both like classic examples
of how, like, words changemeaning over time.
What used to be an okay thingand everyone understood what you
meant by it, like now has avery different meaning, and we
all know that.
We're reading a book that, likeyou know, if you're reading
(05:28):
shakespeare and he uses the wordgay, he doesn't mean like gay,
he means, you know, happy andfun and all of that, and same
thing for me.
But you can, within context, westill understand it.
But, yeah, sometimes you'rejust like, oops, let's change it
.
So I have prepared three of theworst offenders for you today.
(05:54):
About therapy speak there,there are a lot, there are so
many out there you, you didn'tmention one.
oh, my god, I cannot wait to getto that one, but I I'm
definitely wanting to hear the,to hear the other main offenders
that you've noticed daily basison the internet and that I have
(06:28):
actually had people either usedirectly on me or I have like
seen them use on people aroundme, and when I say use, I mean
use absolutely incorrectly, like101% wrong.
These are so so common, socommon, so we'll start off with
(06:50):
like triggering, triggeredtrigger warning.
Oh my God, In therapy, fromwhat I understand, triggering is
something.
If something triggers you, it'ssomething that upsets or
frightens you because it remindsyou of a bad past event.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Okay.
On the internet it's anythingthat makes you uncomfortable,
Anything You're triggering meright now it's.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
So, and we'll definitely kind of go into this
a little bit more by like yeah,there is okay, anything could
trigger a person, but theemotions of being uncomfortable
are not a trigger, necessarily atrigger.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Right, and that makes sense.
And I think that, for all ofthese, to me these all have a
firm but kind of fuzzy line asto what exactly is a trigger,
because something that'striggering for you may not be
triggering for me, and that'sokay.
We don't all have to betriggered by the same thing.
But I think what the internethas completely misunderstood is
(08:07):
that it took this term.
It's like, hey, this thing ishappening, and when it happened
before, something reallyterrible happened to me, and so
I'm like, oh fuck, I don't likethis.
And now I'm in a panic mode andit's just downgraded that eight
levels and it's like I don'tlike this thing, I'm feeling
triggered, I'm feeling upset,I'm feeling scared, like I don't
(08:31):
like this, you're triggering meright now.
And so it's used as like a wayto completely shut down the
conversation, to be like I'mjust feeling really triggered.
We can't talk about this, youcan't do that.
You're triggering me right now.
Oh my God, we can't talk aboutthis, you can't.
You can't do that, you'retriggering me right now.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Oh my God, this is something like I I I've sent to
you once before and and youactually helped me out on this
one is, um, when I made thatchart that I can send to my
clients.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Oh yeah, the the one on the motions.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Right, exactly, and and one of the things that I
I've kind of noticed, and one ofthe big reasons why I did make
that chart, was because of thefact that I'll I'll hear
something along the lines oflike, oh my God, you know, my
wife came home late and shereally pissed me off, you know,
and it's like, okay, well, let,let, let's, let's take a step
(09:27):
back.
Did she like really piss youoff?
Yeah, she totally pissed me off.
Okay, so you were, you wereangry and you were yelling and
screaming and there was a giant.
No, I mean, you know, shedidn't, you know like I wasn't
yelling or anything like that,but I was like, so I mean, would
you say that you were more, youknow like, frustrated?
Or yeah, you know it's, it'sannoying, it's frustrating.
I'm like, okay, there is a oryeah, you know it's, it's
annoying, it's frustrating.
I'm like, okay, there is adifference between being, you
(09:47):
know, pissed off and beingfrustrated.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think a lot of these that's
what they're missing is thatslight little nuance.
To be like this is somethingthat, like you know, maybe this
has happened to me in the pastand I didn't like it and I see
it happen again.
I'm like, I don't like thissituation, I'm uncomfortable,
I'm not happy, I'm peeved, I'manxious, but I'm not triggered.
(10:14):
That's, that's up here.
We're down here at this littlebottom level.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
One of the things I kind of tell to people is like
you know, like we, we constantly, we we recognize things as
either being neutral or being atlevel 10 yeah, but we forget,
like all those other levels solike.
One example that I always sayis that if you're at work and a
co-worker comes in and says, youknow, like hey, you know, I
(10:48):
stopped at Dunkin' Donuts, andthen you know I got you a cup of
coffee, that is a level ofhappiness.
Oh, thank you.
You know, that was very nice ofyou.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah, it's probably not a level 10 happiness.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, you know you're not going to be there.
You're like holy shit.
This is the greatest fucking day, you know?
And and the thing is, is thatsame thing with, like, you know,
if you won the 100 milliondollar lottery ticket, you're
not gonna be sitting there andbe like, huh, that's nice cool,
(11:22):
you know.
So, like, yeah, there's gonnabe absolutely different levels
of these things and it's it'sstill falling within the, the
range of happiness.
Yeah, it's just that you knowthe the hundred million dollar
lottery ticket is not going tobe a level one, and your
co-worker giving you a cup ofcoffee is not going to be like
(11:44):
level 10.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, just broaden your vocabulary, kids.
It's partially what it comesdown to.
So, also in connection withtriggering being triggered, all
that are trigger warnings.
I'm sure you've come acrossthis on the internet or in
readings, where people may writelike a capital TW before their
(12:07):
post or something and thenmention like blood, gore, sexual
assault, something like that.
The concept of the triggerwarning is to warn people about
potentially upsetting material.
You know you might be seeingsomething that you're like oh I
really don't like that.
That could trigger you.
Hence the name.
(12:27):
A lot of people really dislikethese because it's something
that, you know, liberalsnowflakes came up with back in
my day.
We just read the book, wedidn't complain about it, type
thing.
But I will say that there havebeen studies that were done on
this.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Okay, I'm interested to hearing.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, I wasn't expecting quite the results from
this, but studies show thattrigger warnings don't mitigate
distress.
On average, when studyparticipants didn't have a
trigger warning, they chose toview the content anyway, not
knowing if it had somethingpotentially triggering in it or
(13:08):
not, and they didn't feeltriggered by it.
But when warnings were in place, people had a quote like
anticipatory emotional response,but they often still chose to
view the content anyway, atleast within the study.
But they often still chose toview the content anyway, at
least within the study.
But they had this responseahead of time by seeing that,
(13:34):
because now you know that thisthing is in there and so now you
may actually be feeling moreanxious going into it.
But in the end there wasn't abig difference in emotional
experience between those whowere forewarned and those who
weren't.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
So I'm kind of curious if, in the scientific
studies, if it was like triggerwarning, we will be talking
about sexual assault versustrigger warning.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Exactly and within this study that was done.
I didn't see examples.
They didn't show examples ofwhat they were talking about.
They also didn't mention if youknow anyone in the group, if
they specifically chosen them.
I'm assuming, as a result, thatthey didn't, because that might
be unethical to be like hey,have you ever had sexual assault
?
Do you want to take part in mystudy?
You've experienced it.
(14:24):
Yeah, come into this room righthere.
That might be a littleunethical to put people in that
situation and then have themread something that mentioned
sexual assault, rape, whatever,or the trigger warning.
So I don't think this is theperfect study, but I do think
it's a start to kind of say thatit may not be as important to
(14:47):
put trigger warnings oneverything as I think a lot of
people have started to do.
It's just like everything getsa trigger warning Everything.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I'm thinking to myself I can watch pretty much
anything, um, but like, so likethe one thing is is, like you, I
can watch horror movies.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
You love horror movies?
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I love horror movies and I can, I can watch.
I'm sure you I'm well, beingwhere you are You've seen the
movie or at least heard of themovie hostile.
Yes, at least heard of themovie Hostel.
Yes, and so the entire movie isAmericans who are going out to
God knows where and they go to ahostel that kidnaps them, and
(15:43):
then it turns out to be like atorture, like people are paying
to torture other humans.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I can sit there throughout the entire movie and
watch you know people being, youknow cut up and things like
that, but I refuse to watchmarley and me ah, yes, I can see
why because you know like notthe pet you, you know, you, you,
you can.
(16:11):
You can kill off 50 000 humans,but if you scratch a fucking
dog, I'm like oh my god, no, no,no right, we, we have
boundaries for some of thesethings so just because of the
fact that I know the ending ofMarley and Me, I refuse to watch
(16:35):
it.
So I would think that if I knewthat there was going to be
animal abuse in this video, liketrigger warning graphic videos
of dog abuse, I'm going to belike nope.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, I'm going to skip that one.
Like, nope, yeah, I'm gonnaskip that one.
Yeah, I think it just kind ofopens up the the possibility to
say that maybe we don't needtrigger warnings on everything
that should be pulled back andkind of like, with being
triggered, pick the things thatare really really triggering
animal abuse, rape, you know,and you know, maybe sexual
(17:13):
assault does fall into that toothat you're like this is
something that should be, that'sprobably something that should
be studied as well to like whichare the ones that people may
have an actual reaction to.
But I have seen people demandto have trigger warnings on more
things.
It's like, oh, this needed thetrigger warning.
Or to, you know, there've beendiscussions in schools about
(17:35):
like this book needs a triggerwarning, this book needs to talk
about this.
It's like you have neverexperienced that you are not
coming to the table as asurvivor of of torture, you know
, saying, hey, I don't want toread a book that has torture in
it because of what I physicallymyself went through.
You know, in that case I thinkpeople will be like, oh damn,
respect.
(17:55):
Okay, maybe we don't need tohave this in here, but in
general there's just a weirdkind of push between you know,
gen Z is a lot of it.
I'm not going to blame them forthis, but I will say that
they're kind of the ones thatare really pushing this from
what I see on the internet tosay everything needs a trigger
warning.
And it has a trigger warning.
Like I don't want to, I'm notgoing to read books to have this
(18:17):
, this, this, this and this inthem.
And on the other hand, on theother side, other hand teachers
pushing back and being like well, this is classic literature,
you must read it.
Like surely we can find a happymedium.
Just because it's classicliterature doesn't mean it's not
shit.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
You know the and again, the thing about you know
what I was kind of sayingearlier is that anything can be
a trigger.
Warning or a trigger.
Yeah, you know it's.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
So when you feel triggered by something, you may
fall into trap number two, andthat is demanding that somebody
or something have boundaries.
You are setting your boundaries.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
This is one I definitely love.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Oh, I fucking hate this one.
So in therapy, from what Iunderstand, setting boundaries
(19:24):
is setting a limit for what isand isn't appropriate behavior
in terms of what you willtolerate.
Mother-in-law keep calling me16 times a day and demanding
that I do this and like tryingto run my household, and I'm
setting a boundary that, likethis is my household, we're not
going to do this anymore and ifyou keep doing this, I may you
know I'm going to block yournumber or something like that.
(19:45):
Would that be kind of a correctuse of setting boundaries?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
kind of a correct use of setting boundaries.
So that is a very difficult oneto, because so there was a
thing that jonah hill where hehad mentioned about that or so
an ex-girlfriend of jonah hill'sI had mentioned about how jonah
hill was, uh, making demandsthat she go to the beach, that
(20:18):
she had to wear, like you know,basically covering her entire
body, like she went to.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
She was a surfer right, I remember this yeah yeah
, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
So, like you know, this was something that she was
doing prior to them dating.
And then, all of a sudden, hewas like you know, like hey,
like you know, like I don't wantyour body exposed, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, Right.
And so people like jumped onthem and said, like hey, like
you know, like dude, you can'tfucking do that.
Like you know, like you're acontrolling asshole, yeah.
(20:51):
And then he came back with Idon't know why you're so mad at
me, I'm just setting boundaries.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
This is exactly what I hate about this fucking phrase
is that people use it like that.
They use it to justify refusingto do anything they don't want
to do.
Anything I don't want to do.
It's setting boundaries.
You need to respect myboundaries.
Okay, it's like you don't wantto do it.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Just say that and you know so.
If your boundary is that you?
Want a very conservative girl,like, okay, fine, you know, find
yourself a conservative girl,but you know you can't sit there
and try to change somebody.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
And you also have to accept that if you set a
boundary, that may have futureconsequences.
I mean, I saw this.
So I have a friend who she,with permission, I'm sharing
this story because I know it wasa stressful moment, to say the
least, for her.
She was going to visit hersister and she has a young child
.
And right before they went thesister apparently was just like
(22:05):
hey, so like when you come, I'vegot like a really small
apartment and stuff, so like youcan't have a mess, you can't be
leaving a mess here, like Idon't want toys and stuff, so
like you can't have a mess, youcan't be leaving a mess here,
like I don't want toys and stuffaround, like I can't deal with
that and you need to respect myboundaries.
And so my friend was like thenI'm coming with a small child.
If that is going to be a problembecause it will be I can tell
you right now children have toysand diapers and clothing and
(22:28):
things like that that comes withthem.
If this is going to be aproblem, we can't stay with you
and that may mean that we can'tcome visit, because I wasn't
expecting to have to pay for ahotel room and you're the only
person I know in this city andher sister just threw this
massive fit and was like youneed to respect my boundaries.
She is respecting yourboundaries.
(22:49):
You had a kind of bizarreboundary, but okay, that's fine,
that's your boundary, but youdon't get to have your cake and
eat it too.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
And that's kind of the thing is like okay, you know
, the, the, the friend, okay, ifshe wants to create that
boundary of like no toys andthings like that.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah, okay, but that's fine for you to have that
boundary.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
But at the same time don't expect anybody to cater.
You know, and that's kind ofthe thing is that you know
that's one of the things of aboundary is that you're putting
the ball in the other person'scourt.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
So you know, if, if let's say well, no matter what
side of the fence that you're onpolitically, that you know a
lot of families, especially overthe holidays, say, you know
political talk yeah thanksgivinglike I don't care if you're
(23:55):
democrat, I don't care if you'rerepublican.
No talks about political yeahokay.
So if the person who is hostingnow let's say thanksgiving or
whatever, makes that boundarycool, they're setting that
boundary that in this housethere's not going to be any
political, you know, talks oranything like that yeah and
(24:18):
you're putting the ball into theother, the other person's court
.
So boundary is saying there isno political talking in this
house.
If you want to, you're notgoing to be welcomed here for
Thanksgiving.
So again, you're putting theball into the other person's
court.
If they so badly have to talkabout Trump or Harris or Biden
(24:40):
or whatever, cool, but youalready know you're out that
door.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Yeah, yeah, I see this first one a lot with the
completely misunderstanding ofwhat are setting boundaries.
What's the point of setting aboundary?
And then a close second behindare the people who completely
misunderstand how that has aneffect on them.
If you set this boundary, theother person can say okay and
(25:06):
walk away, and you don't get tobe like, no, you have to come
back and do what I said.
I actually don't get to be like, no, you have to come back and
do what I said.
No, I actually don't.
And that doesn't make me atoxic person for saying I'm not
dealing with this Because youcould, like in the instance that
you gave, I would imagine thatyou know properly setting
boundaries.
The person says, hey, if you'recoming to my house on
(25:27):
Thanksgiving, we ain'tdiscussing politics Like I don't
want that in this house.
I know we have different views,A lot of people coming over.
If you discuss it like I'mkicking you out, you could
choose to be like I want sobadly to say shit about insert
name here, Then don't go, you,you actually can do that.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
And and once that boundary is set, if you do go
and you are talking about insertname here, then that person has
every right to say hey look, Isaid no political talk here, and
if anybody started doingpolitical talk, you need to go.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, no one can get mad about that, except they do,
because people don't like beingtold.
And again, this settingboundaries is such a a nebulous
thing.
And then the third way that Isee this so badly misused is
have you ever seen the term?
I need to protect my peace yes,I, I've seen that I just want
(26:33):
to burn down the internet.
Every time I see somebody usethat.
That is a form of like I'msetting boundaries, like I'm not
going to talk to you becauseyou're being toxic right now.
This is a toxic situation.
It's usually in combinationwith calling something toxic.
They're like I'm settingboundaries, I need to protect my
peace.
No-transcript.
(27:11):
So give me an example of that.
I mean so.
For instance, we're at a familydinner and the host has not
said we can't discuss politics,and so we get into a political
spat about policy or candidatesor something like that, and I
(27:32):
insult you, the, the trump lover, and I'm like well, anyone who
voted for trump, probablyflunked out of high school, is a
fucking idiot.
Like is married to their cousinat least.
Like it's probably the thirdcousin cousin marriage.
Like there was a first cousinmarriage, a second cousin
marriage, a third cousinmarriage.
You know they're like completelyinsulting you, like all the
(27:53):
nasty things, and then you'relike yo, what the fuck?
I have seen people in thatinstance kind of be like no, I'm
gonna set this boundary righthere.
Like you know, I need toprotect my peace.
These are my opinions.
I'm allowed to have my opinions.
I'm setting this boundary that,like you know, know, you're not
allowed to talk.
You just called me a fuckingidiot.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
You don't get to then hide and be like I'm just a
baby.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So so, basically, the theperson who is making all the
insults and when the, the otherperson who's been assaulted is
like you know, like what thefuck?
Oh, no, no, no, no.
We are dropping this because Iwant to protect my peace.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, because I'm setting this boundary that like
you know you don't get to talkto me like that.
You know you're now likeshouting and you're doing all
this and that's crazy.
And like you're doing all thisand that's crazy.
And like you're telling allthese people that I said nasty
things and like I'm cutting youout.
I'm setting this boundary.
Fuck around and find out if youreally strongly believe that
about the person.
Stand by and be like yeah, Isaid that you know so.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
So a boundary is a boundary for a reason um, you
can't set up a boundary only foryour convenience, exactly like
when I think of a boundary, youknow I think of, like the
boundary of this room you know,I can slam myself into the wall
as many times as humanlypossible, but I'm not going to
(29:30):
be able to break that boundary.
Yeah, and same thing for theperson who's outside.
They can smash your headagainst the outside of the wall
and the boundary is there for areason, yeah, so yeah, you can't
go off saying this whole likehorrible thing to somebody else.
If you're saying that this ismy boundary, that I don't want
(29:52):
to have like this giant namecalling debate and that's my
boundary, okay, fine, that'syour boundary, then don't start
but don't, don't be name callingand then say that's it.
I've said everything about badabout you.
Now you can't say anything badabout me.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Yeah, you're getting out of control right now.
You started it.
Maybe the other person is, butlike, yeah, you got to.
Boundaries need to be clear.
I see boundaries kind of aslike little bubbles that people
are trying to make their bubblelike smaller and smaller and
smaller to include fewer andfewer people until it's just
them making all the rules, andthat is not a good way to go
(30:35):
through life.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I mean, yeah, I mean I think that if you are making
that many boundaries, then, yeah, you're going to limit the
amount of people that are inyour social settings.
Yeah, that's going to causeisolation and a lot that are in
your social settings.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, that's going to cause isolation and a lot of
other like mental healthproblems and these people get an
instagram post about you know,oh, I'm, I'm taking time for me
to be me like shut up.
You pissed off all your friends.
No one wants to talk to youanymore.
So for our third and final, Ihope you're ready.
(31:18):
Looking forward Trauma oh boy.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Oh trauma.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Trauma, trauma, trauma.
So I will say I have seenpeople start to deal with this
one and talking about traumawith a capital T and trauma with
a lowercase T.
Have you?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
seen that differentiation, thank God, no
Okay.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Trauma with a capital T is real trauma.
I hate to phrase it like that,but it's what we think of as
actual trauma.
So an emotional response to aterrible event usually it looks
like it needs to be sort oflife-threatening, like an
accident, crime, naturaldisaster, something really,
really, really terrible istrauma in the therapy setting
(32:09):
that you survived on theinternet.
It's something I didn't likehappened and I didn't get over
it.
They're the same.
How does that make you feel so?
Speaker 2 (32:22):
and then I'm going to be doing an episode about this
next.
But yes, I think that when,when you talk about like, trauma
, like and and I think you know,just to kind of give you a
preview of next week's episodepeople, people using the term
(32:43):
like, oh my god, like you know,like when, when johnny hurt me,
like I, I, I just it's pts.
I have PTSD from when JohnnyFootball Player, like you know,
like dumped me and it's like youwere hurt.
Yeah, you know.
Yeah, you might have somedifficulties with it, but it's
(33:07):
not PTSD, you know Right, ptsd,you know Right.
So, but the thing is, it's very, very, you know, ptsd is very,
very hard to say what exactlycauses it.
Because, yeah, you know, likesomebody could possibly have
(33:37):
PTSD from Johnny, from johnnyfootball player, jumping them,
sure, but there is a whole guideof what ptsd is, saying
something along the lines oflike, well, ever since johnny
football player, uh, dumped me,like you know, like I, I, just I
, I can't deal with, you know,being lied to.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Okay, that's great, but that's not PTSD.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
No, no, no, no, and it's you know.
I think you could argue thatit's on the scale of PTSD, where
it's like you know, PTSD fromwar or childhood abuse and like
all of that.
That's the real PTSD up here.
(34:23):
But way down on the scale whereit no longer qualifies as PTSD
but like it's still still in thesame bracket.
I think you could potentiallysay like, yeah, my, my ex lied
to me and my ex lied to me foryears and years and years about
stuff, and so now I've got trustissues and so every time I feel
like you might be lying to me,I panic and I do something.
It's like it's again.
(34:45):
It's in the same like chunk,but it's maybe not the same as I
went through a war.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
And again, this, this definitely is going to be
coming up next week but likesorry but, but you know, so
there are.
You know we follow, uh, you know, dsm diagnostic and statistical
manual of mental disorders.
Uh, there are.
You know, certain things thatwe have to look for.
(35:17):
So, okay, she might behypervigilant and looking for
lies and things like that Okay,that's one thing, but you have
to match so many things in orderto actually be diagnosed with
PTSD.
So, okay, you havehypervigilance Great, but you
are not having these intrusivethoughts, you are not having
(35:41):
avoidance and things like that.
So you have one thing, but youneed to match these at least
three other things in thiscluster and certain things in
this cluster.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, and that all just gets like taken out on the
internet, both for PTSD and justfor like trauma in general,
that there may be kind of thislevel that you have to achieve
and I don't know what the DSMsays about trauma have to
achieve and I don't know whatthe DSM says about trauma Like,
if there's a specific diagnosisof trauma, I assume that that
(36:16):
would be PTSD, but the internetlikes the word trauma and PTSD.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
And again that's actually in the DSM is defining
what trauma actually is.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, see, there are actual definitions and there are
criteria that you have to meet,and the fact that your
boyfriend lied to you twice doesnot make you traumatized.
The other, like outside ofrelationships, the place that I
see it that drives me absolutelymental is all those videos on
(36:53):
TikTok and Instagram.
I'm so glad TikTok's gettingbanned hopefully Actually I'm
not but part of me is like youknow what.
Maybe this is a good thing.
It's a cesspool of sin outthere.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Is it being banned in France too?
No, okay.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
I'm still there.
We're here, curious, go ahead.
I can still sin.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
I'm still there.
Curious Go ahead.
I can still sin.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
But the number of videos talking about how we've
all got trauma.
You know, have you ever thoughtabout why you can't remember
your childhood?
It's because you experiencedtrauma and it's your body trying
to repress those terriblememories.
No, I just got shit memory.
I'm just off in my own littleworld, like that's why I don't
(37:37):
remember things.
I did not have trauma.
There was no childhood trauma.
There was no emotional trauma.
You'll see statistics beingthrown around like did you know
that if a child, you know, ifyou meet like 30% of their wants
or needs, then like that'senough for them to be a healthy
(37:58):
adult, to grow up to be a normal, emotionally functioning adult.
That just gets tossed aroundwith like no context and then
people will take that and turnit into.
So that must mean that you know, if you can't remember your
childhood or something like that, then you experience trauma.
It's because your parents wereonly giving you like 10 of your
needs.
It's like wow, I mean when you,when you say it like that, that
(38:20):
sounds horrific but it's nottrue.
It's just it's.
It's completely not true.
They were all running around,carried unhealed trauma which,
by the way, if you ever maket-ex arms, did you know that
that's a sign of unhealedchildhood trauma.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Blah.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Fact.
I saw it on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
So I, I, I.
I'm scared to say this becauseI know that I am going to get
shit from 50% of the therapyworld.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Hot take coming in.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
There is an ongoing battle between therapists.
You have psychoanalytic andthen you also have behaviorist.
I'm more of a behaviorist typeperson also.
Have you know, behaviorist, I'mmore of a behaviorist type
person.
It's kind of the idea of, like,this is a behavior that you're,
that you're showing, what do wedo about this now?
Whereas psychoanalytic will say, okay, I see that let's go back
(39:25):
into your childhood, let's see,like, where this behavior comes
from and you know, kind of gointo that whole aspect.
So you'll always hear likepsychoanalytics who are saying
like, uh, behaviors are areabsolute shit.
And then you always hear likebehaviors who are saying
psychoanalytic is absolute shit.
But with that being said, youknow, this is kind of the
(39:51):
problem that I have with that isthat A plus B plus C doesn't
always equal D in this case.
There are many other factors,you know, that is going to
affect the person, and one ofthose factors is the person
themselves.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
And their childhood trauma that's unresolved so.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
So, just as you said, there are if.
If you can't remember yourchildhood, that means that you
had, you know, childhood trauma.
Well, okay, or it could just bethe fact that you know memory
is not a strong suit in thisperson.
You know, whereas you said thatmemory is not a strong factor
(40:38):
for you, but you know languageis a extremely strong factor for
you, just as memory, like I,can tell you exactly what
happened when it happened whatyou said, and that's a strong
factor for me.
You exactly what happened whenit happened what you said, and
that's a strong factor for me.
But I've taken three years ofspanish wine and all I know is
como esta mi yamos, chris andI'm not even sure if I'm yeah,
(41:14):
yeah, yeah, but again, yes, thatis not my strong suit, as you
can plainly tell exactly.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Everybody's different .
And that's not to say that theperson who truly experienced
childhood trauma might do thelittle t-rex arms.
T-rex arms is one of those thatgets thrown around for like
childhood trauma, adhd autism,adhd autism probably something
else exciting and new that we'llcome up with for like that's.
(41:44):
That's a symptom of that.
It's not to say that justbecause they have their, you
know, they have experienced thechildhood, real childhood trauma
that they're never going to do.
T-rex arms Maybe it's just acomfortable way to sleep.
I'm just saying it's hellacomfortable.
You've never tried it as alover of doing T-Rex arms, but I
(42:07):
don't have childhood trauma.
I can say very confidently,despite the fact that I don't
remember my childhood that muchit's just no, no, there's
nothing that needs to be healed.
There's nothing that I need tolike, figure out.
You know.
That's why I'm having problemshere or there.
I feel like people just kind ofthrow it out there on the
internet Cause it sounds cool,right, to talk about like Ooh,
(42:28):
talk about like ooh trauma.
Trauma is big and scary and ifyou have trauma, then you have
an excuse for why you act.
Badly is what I often see, notwhy you do things well, but why
you don't do X, y, z, why youcan't manage to keep a
relationship.
Oh, it's because I have trauma.
(42:49):
No, you're a needy bitch, sorry, like, and maybe you'll find
somebody who's okay with thatand like props to you and them
for making that work.
Like no shame in being who youare, but you don't get to blame
that on on trauma, like my lastboyfriend or girlfriend didn't
give me what I wanted and solike that's why I act this way.
Okay, then, you need to figurethat out.
That's not trauma, though.
(43:10):
Again, drama is you wentthrough a terrible,
life-threatening event.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
And you survived, but maybe not super well.
And so now you're like, oh God,yeah, that one also.
It appears in so many, so manyvideos.
Thankfully, I have never hadanyone close to me claim trauma.
Smack the shit out of them ifthey did.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Yeah, I concern the fact that I do specialize in
trauma actually, the fact that,like I, I do where I do
specialize in trauma.
Actually, when I see the wordtrauma, like you know, popped up
, I'm just like, oh youmotherfucker, like you have no
idea, you have not a fuckingclue so for all three of these,
(44:03):
I think and this is kind ofconnected to the where do we go
from here?
Speaker 1 (44:07):
I'm gonna just drop this in.
Then I want to hear what youhave to think.
I'm going to blame social mediafor these and say that, like,
where we go from here, like itneeds to be, we need to crack
down on social media, and I getit.
You only have like 90 secondsmax to explain something, and so
(44:27):
90 seconds that you really haveto be concise and like super
focused to be like.
And so 90 seconds you reallyhave to be concise and super
focused to be like.
This is what qualifies astrauma.
This is what does not qualifyas trauma.
This is what setting boundariesis, and 90 seconds is not a lot
of time to make.
A super catchy, exciting drawsyou in video that explains a
(44:52):
concept like this in a way thatpeople are like, oh, got it.
And so I think that people turnto being sensationalist,
because that's what pushes viewsas opposed to actually doing
the ethical thing and using thewords correctly.
But I don't know if you haveany thoughts about where to go
from here.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
I mean, I would say the biggest thing and I agree,
like you know, like actuallyusing the words correctly, um,
words are words for a reason,you know, and words have
definitions for a reason what?
And being able to call outpeople and say like, look,
(45:33):
that's, that's not a boundary,that's you know.
Like Jonah Hill, yeah.
That's not a boundary.
That's you being thecontrolling asshole.
Yeah, but, but yeah, actuallycalling people out on this shit
and I think that that's the onlyway is, yeah, unfortunately,
(45:53):
like I think it's up to thepeople to like really educate
themselves on what these thingsmean yeah, and I will say I have
seen a lot of chatter abouttherapy speak.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
I actually listened to a couple different podcasts
on it, done by realprofessionals, so it's
definitely something that peopleare becoming aware of.
That's like, oh, you're justlike the internet has taken
these terms and ismisappropriating them, misusing
them, like this is not a greatthing, and so trying to get the
(46:26):
information out there.
But, yeah, I think more needsto be done, either to call out
people and also for people toyou know, like us, to talk about
you know what does it actuallymean?
You know what?
What is trauma?
What is setting a boundary?
And for people to have thatinformation.
(46:48):
So, okay, like now, Iunderstand.
And so now, when I see somebodymisusing that, I can, you know,
step back and be like I don'tthink I actually have unresolved
childhood trauma that's causingme to be triggered by
everything I see and need,trigger warnings and to set
boundaries constantly yeah ohyes, it's our favorite.
(47:12):
Where do we go from here?
Education, I feel like most ofours come down to like the
people just gotta know I mean, Imean, and unfortunately that is
the hardest thing I knowespecially in today's world god,
I know.
(47:35):
So on that, uh exciting note,where would you put therapy
speak, ie the misuse of termsthat actually have a real
meaning in therapy, the misuseof them on the internet?
In real life, would you saythat this is a green potato,
(47:56):
it'll make you sick if you eatit, but just scrape off the
green part and it's fine?
Is this a death cap mushroom 50, 50 chance of death, even if
you cook it?
Or is this a delicious butdeadly last snack of antifreeze?
Speaker 2 (48:12):
delicious but deadly.
Last snack of antifreeze I'mgoing to go with a death cap, a
half a cap.
Half a death cap, half thedeath cap.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
I love the fact that we just, you know, make up.
We came up with our own system,and then we were like nah.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
But the reason why I kind of say that is that, yes,
okay, you know, 98% of it isjust people just being stupid,
yeah, and then chalking it outto absolute ignorance.
The thing is is that thoseother two percent is something
like jonah hill, yeah, like Imean, that's you know if, if,
(49:02):
thankfully, the, the, hisex-girlfriend was, saw this as
being controlling, but if youdon't know what a boundary is,
and jonah hill is saying likeyou know, like this affects me
and you know like, uh, thishurts me, and it's just like,
okay, well, obviously she's notthe girl for you, then yeah you
(49:26):
were the one who made that stepto her, so you hurt yourself.
She's not doing anything thatshe hasn't done before.
So that, that's why I do pushit up to a death cap as opposed
to green potato, is because, yes, there are.
there are those 2% where orsomebody who is saying like you
(49:51):
know trauma or something likethat, I've been traumatized and
you know like yeah you know youmight've had a hard time, but if
you're really you know I lovethe expression, tell a lie
enough times it becomes thetruth.
And if you are sitting thereand saying I'm traumatized, I'm
(50:11):
traumatized, I'm traumatized,you're looking around and you
find these things that matchesyour trauma, traumatization then
you know you are going to takeon the effect of somebody who's
traumatized without beingtraumatized.
Period you traumatized yourself.
(50:32):
Yeah, yeah, you basicallytraumatized without being
traumatized.
Period he traumatized yourself.
Yeah, yeah, you basicallytraumatized yourself it's not.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
I'm laughing, it's not funny, but like, yeah, I, I
would agree that I think this isa low death cap mushroom.
I'm not quite sure it's afull-on death cap mushroom and
50 50 chance of death like, butit's more than a green potato,
because I think people hurtthemselves a lot with this.
(51:01):
This is not so much you'rehurting other people, but when
you create this little bubblearound yourself where you're
like, oh, I have this unhealedchildhood trauma and it's really
affecting me and that's why Ican't, you know, having problems
with relationships and withfriendships and with everything
in my life and everything istriggering me, yeah, you are
(51:22):
creating, you are making thatyour reality and that's a sad
reality to live in where youneed a trigger warning for
everything, because everythingstresses you out.
You know you've never actuallyexperienced sexual assault, but
you know you can't read aboutyou.
You need that trigger warningbecause, oh, my God, this is,
this is really really scary.
(51:44):
And it's not just the one thing, it's for blood, it's for gore,
it's for just anything outsideof, like, your comfort zone.
You're making your comfort zonesmaller and smaller and smaller
and smaller, because now youknow you've completely cut that
off, like you don't see anythingthat you don't like, and so as
soon as, like that one littlething comes in, you don't have
(52:05):
the ability to deal with it, andthen you have a complete
meltdown.
You're like I'm traumatized.
Yeah, you may actually be atthis point because you did this
to yourself and so I would.
I would actually think it's morethan just like 2% of people.
I don't think that most peoplego to that extreme, obviously,
but when I think about the sheerprevalence of this stuff that I
(52:28):
see on the internet, it's, it'sgotta be having an effect, and
even even to the point like.
You know what happened with myfriend.
She and her sister are not onspeaking terms at the moment,
not just because of that one ofit, because of other events too.
Is that?
Because one of them kind ofstarted to be like no, you know,
(52:51):
we need to do this, we need todo that.
Like I'm setting theseboundaries and like using this
therapy, speak that that hascreated like a huge rift between
them, because it made thingsreally uncomfortable and sister
refused to work with it and myfriend was like what am I
supposed to work with here?
I don't know how I would loveto, but like I have nothing to
(53:15):
work with here.
I don't know how I would loveto, but, like I, I have nothing
to work with here.
So I think it's more than twopercent.
I know we just had a privatechat the other day about people
who are like, oh my god, this islike the biggest thing in my
life, is it?
Is it really that bad?
I would say probably, I don'tknow a little bit more.
Five.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
I would say yeah, I would say probably like 10 and
then maybe yeah maybe like kindof scatters into, like you know,
uh 15, where it's not as bad.
Speaker 1 (53:40):
So exactly, people have kind of picked up yeah yeah
, but yeah, that's why I'mputting it somewhere in the
death cap much low death cap,mushroom territories.
It's like it can have nastyconsequences, mainly for you.
If you overuse these termswithout understanding what they
are, you're cheapening theexperience for yourself and for
others.
But is it going to kill you?
(54:03):
Probably not.
It's just going to make yourlife really shitty yeah so if
you have ever experienced traumaor you've been triggered by
something or you would like toset a boundary with us, you can
write to us at toxic, at awesomelife skillscom, or you can
(54:25):
write to us on any of our socialmedias, which you should be
following already.
We are on Facebook, we're on X,we're on Instagram, we're on
threads, we're on TikTok, maybenot too much longer yeah.
I was like, oh, there's a fifthone, is there?
Speaker 2 (54:42):
see this.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
I need to get TikTok to be banned.
I can only remember four thingsat one time.
You can let us know there.
Also, if you have any ideas forupcoming episodes, we'd love to
hear them.
Until next time, this has beenthe toxic cooking show.
Bye.
Speaker 2 (54:59):
Bye.
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