March 31, 2025 • 26 mins
Are reverse osmosis, water softeners, and “super pure” water systems really the answer? In this bonus episode of The Toxic Truth About Water, Drs. Glenn and Ina host water-treatment expert Owen Boyd, whose decades-long career began in dental mercury removal and led him to create innovative systems for removing toxins without harming people—or the planet. Discover why high-purity water can still be unhealthy, what biofouling in RO tanks means for your safety, and why softeners are increasingly under scrutiny nationwide. If you’ve ever wondered whether your current filtration setup is actually good for your family, you won’t want to miss Owen’s eye-opening perspective.
What You’ll Learn
- Owen’s Journey:
- How a birth defect in his son led him from AI & finance into the world of dental mercury and eventually water treatment.
- RO, Softeners & More:
- Why reverse osmosis, “classic” filters, and salt-based softeners solve some problems but create new ones.
- Importance of Third-Party Testing:
- Why misleading sales tactics (like TDS meters) can hide contamination—plus tips on verifying real toxin removal.
- Healthy vs. Pure Water:
- Why “zero TDS” and “no minerals” isn’t always best, and how to avoid giving up essential nutrients when filtering your water.
Key Takeaways
- Reverse Osmosis Realities:
- RO doesn’t just remove contaminants—it also strips the beneficial minerals your body needs and can harbor bacterial growth if not maintained.
- Softeners Under Fire:
- Salt-based softeners can introduce sodium into your water and environment—leading to increased bans in various states.
- No Truly “Clean” Water Left:
- Everything from rainfall to groundwater is now laced with toxins, meaning filtration is a must.
- The “Don’t Do Harm” Rule:
- Effective water treatment should eliminate contaminants without contributing to other environmental or health issues.
Resources & Links
- Explore the Series:
- TheToxicTruth.info – Learn about Drs. Glenn & Ina’s e-book, paperback, and more.
- Connect with Drs. Glenn & Ina:
- Call Us Today: (732) 300-1925
- Instagram: @drsglennandina
Subscribe & Share
Love the insights from Owen Boyd? Hit subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to The Toxic Truth About Water. Please share this bonus episode with friends or family who might be relying on outdated filtration methods—because knowledge is the key to truly safe, healthy water!
For more info on the Pureway Advanced Whole House Filtration System check out the following websites:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Glenn (00:00):
Welcome to the Toxic Truth About Water.
We're Drs.
Glenn and Ina, and in thispodcast, we're uncovering the
hidden dangers lurking in yourwater and how those contaminants
impact your health.
Ina (00:11):
After decades of exploring natural health, we've learned
the importance of clean, safewater, and we're here to share
that knowledge with you.
From the effects of toxins andcontaminants to the solutions
you need, we've got the insidescoop, so let's dive in.
Glenn (00:29):
Yeah.
Alright.
We have a really good one today.
Ina (00:32):
Yeah.
Excited.
And so just to catch you guysup, we ended off our series The
Toxic Truth About Water, andwe're bringing a couple of bonus
episodes to you guys, and we areso excited for today's episode.
We have a very special man onour podcast today, Mr.
Owen Boyd.
(00:53):
And I just want, to have Owenshare a little bit about his
background but I always refer toOwen literally as one of the
smartest people I know, and Owenprobably doesn't realize that,
but Glenn and I have been inenough conversations and just
really getting where he's comingfrom and the knowledge and the
(01:14):
experience that he has.
So Owen, thank you so much forbeing here.
Our listeners will so appreciatehearing from you.
So let's start out.
If you could just share a littlebit about your background and
how you got into water to thedegree that you're in it now.
Owen (01:33):
It's that's a long story, but I'll try and be as brief
about that as I can.
Because I was trained in financeand computer science coming out
of college.
Nothing to do with molecularscience at all.
Just let's go make some moneywriting software programs in AI.
So I started that and Was doingreal well, having a lot of fun,
and then I had my first sonborn, missing a left hand, and
(01:56):
that was like an earthshattering event for me, not in
the terms of he was missing ahand doctors.
had no idea why that could havehappened.
Everything was like it might be,something in their DNA.
It could be this, it could bethat.
I'm going that's not good enoughfor me.
I need to know.
So I started researching.
And once I started researchingthat was the beginning of the
(02:17):
end for me.
Cause I still research.
I probably read three to fourresearch papers every single day
today, trying to keep up withthe science because it's going
so fast.
But discovering that theaffliction with a High rate of
confidence was caused by theremoval of an amalgam filling.
(02:38):
In a dental chair caused thataffliction caused me to jump on
this bandwagon and startremoving mercury from dental
offices.
So I ended up developing asystem just for that purpose.
I ended up testifying in frontof Congress.
Several times to educate them onthe dangers and hazards of
(03:00):
mercury.
And essentially sold a lot ofsystems into the dental market
to remove mercury.
And as a result actually wasawarded an award by engineering
news record as, one of the mostinnovative technologies for
mercury removal because I wasmoving more mercury out of
dental offices than Was beingremoved from coal fired power
(03:21):
plants.
That's how much mercury wasbeing consumed by that industry.
But that put me into water, andlearned that I knew nothing
about water and that wasn'tacceptable to me.
So I started jumping into thiswith reckless abandon I need to
know at the molecular level,what is water.
(03:44):
And we all think of water.
Oh, it's h2o.
There's no h2o, 100 percentsolutions of water anywhere on
this planet because water is awonderful solvent.
So things dissolve in it.
It's also an excellent carrierof material.
So there's all kinds ofparticles in it.
It's also It's ability tochange.
it's electrical charge andformat changes.
(04:07):
Based on whether the water's insunlight or not.
So things like this, they'reexciting to me because it opens
up the potential for how to fixwater.
I've started several companiesin water treatment with a
guideline to provide waterthat's healthy.
And essentially water that meetsmy mass balance requirement,
(04:30):
which is do no evil.
Don't fix one problem and createa bigger one downstream.
Ina (04:36):
Yeah.
And that's amazing.
So it all started with really,cause you were not in this at
all until your son had thatbirth defect, right?
Yep.
Owen (04:46):
That's correct.
Ina (04:47):
Wow.
And he's good now.
How old is your son now, Owen?
Owen (04:50):
He is 40 and he's an engineer in water treatment.
Ina (04:54):
Wow.
Okay.
So we're going back 40 yearsago.
I always thought it was a one ortwo years longer than that.
So I'm glad we're getting theaccuracy.
Very cool.
So then you got into dental andmedical grade water, correct?
Where you were working a lotwith medical and dental
practices.
Yeah.
Owen (05:13):
Sure.
Yep.
Yeah.
Hundreds and hundreds of dentalpractices.
There's about 180, 000 dentaloffices in the United States
alone.
We deal now let's see I think wehave about 150, 000 systems out
there in dental offices.
So we did quite well on thedental markets.
Ina (05:31):
Wow.
Owen (05:32):
But I went to the detail, when I say don't do any harm,
it's like filtering mercury outof water was great, but now I
had containers loaded withmercury.
So what do we do with them?
So instead of just throwing theminto landfills or throwing them
into the ocean we had a program,I got it approved in all 50
states, got it approved by thedepartment of transportation
where we could transport allthis to a recycling center and
(05:55):
recover the mercury.
Ina (05:57):
Wow.
That's Amazing.
So one of the things that Glennand I really want you to share
with our listeners, Owen, we'vebeen down here in Florida for
three years.
We've always been very concernedabout the toxicity in our world,
whether we're talking water,air, food, 5G, all the things
(06:20):
are having a big impact.
And in our clinical practice andthrough the years, we've worked
a lot with toxicity.
And personally, we've always hadwater filtration.
I shouldn't say always, but fora very long time, both in New
Jersey and then certainly whenwe moved to Florida.
It was top priority.
And, we only know what we know,and you can only research as
(06:42):
much as you can research unless,someone like you that just dives
in and just really understandsto another level.
And that's who we love to learnfrom.
But when we came down here, werealized that A lot of the
people in this area do watersofteners.
We've always known reverseosmosis to be a very common way
(07:06):
that people will filter out thecontaminants in their water.
And in New Jersey, we had awhole house carbon filtration
system, and we had reverseosmosis on for our drinking
water, which we re mineralized,knowing that It's removing the
minerals.
When we moved down here, wewanted to match as best as we
(07:26):
could, because again, that'swhat we thought was the best way
to, get the contaminants out andprotect ourselves and our
family.
And so we did the similar thing,but we also added the softener
because in Florida.
Everyone gets a softener.
So we're like, oh, I guess weneed to get a softener.
As we learned and, immersedourselves in, especially since,
(07:49):
being involved in the industrynow and hearing you and other
experts.
Talk about the downside.
We ended up replacing oursystem.
And so we want our listeners tounderstand why you would never
recommend these technologies toanybody that you love and care
(08:11):
about, right?
These are not necessarily theway to go.
Can you share more on that,Owen?
Owen (08:17):
Listening to what you had before activated carbon
remineralization reverse osmosisI look at all of these things
and say, okay, so they don'tmeet my mass balance
requirement, at all.
For instance, the reverseosmosis system you need to have
a very elegant pre filtrationsystem to an RO because RO, I
call that the art of littleholes, okay, which is standard
(08:40):
filtration.
You go to Home Depot Lowe's, youbuy a filter.
It's the art of little holes.
You can buy a 20 micron, a 5micron, or if you get into RO,
0.
005 micron, and that's why itrejects salts because that pore
is so small, but one of thethings about RO is, because it's
such little holes without greatpre filtration you're probably
(09:03):
going to destroy the RO membranevery rapidly.
Okay, because it will clog withany particulate.
The other thing that r.
O.
is not really a filter.
We always categorize it as afilter, and it's not a filter.
I refer to that, a diverter.
So what it's going to do isreject particles that are
(09:25):
smaller than 0.
005 or things in solutionsmaller than 0.
005 that reject goes into yourwastewater and what permeates
through the membrane is Youknow, this high purity water.
Now you had the good sense toremineralize it.
Most people don't, they juststick something under their sink
(09:46):
and go with it.
But RO water, at the at thecellular level, and I actually
learned this through dentistry agood dentist will be able to
pick off people that run RObecause their teeth start to
dissolve.
It's a phenomenal solvent waterlooking for things to dissolve
(10:06):
and calcium, of course, whichyour teeth is pretty much made
out of is going to dissolve inour own water.
If you also look at the cellularlevel, which is why I tried to,
understand in my research what'sthe difference between good
water and bad water?
What does the word hydrationmean?
It doesn't mean just drinkingwater.
(10:27):
You've got to get water acrossthe cell membrane into the
cells.
And for the most part we've beentaught that's through the,
process of osmosis.
It goes through these cells viaosmosis.
And it turns out that's not.
Quite correct.
It actually is driven byaquaporins that open and close
in the outside of the cell wall.
Millions of aquaporins areletting things in and out of the
(10:50):
cells, including nutrients.
They don't just permeatethrough.
The body's got a design to it,and it's an intricate design,
incredibly sophisticated.
When people, when you think ofcells, you think of liver cells,
you've got brain cells, you'vegot bone cells, you've got blood
cells.
It goes on and on, and they alltalk to each other, thousands of
(11:13):
times per second.
What makes that water go throughthe cell wall and reverse
osmosis water?
It doesn't help things gothrough the cell wall, I call it
the water molecule.
If you look at it, H two.
Oh, they cluster togetherthrough standard filtration.
And including an oral membranethat's rejecting water.
(11:36):
I'm trying to set things up sothey actually have a better
chance of getting through thatcell wall, giving you a healthy
cellular response, a highermetabolism, all of these things
critically important to health.
But if you look at the number ofgallons that RO rejects reverse
osmosis system, especially likea little under the sink system.
(11:58):
It's gonna reject somewherebetween 25 and 50 percent of the
water.
So it's a concentrator.
So what it's doing is takingcontaminants that may come in at
one part per million.
It's rejecting that in half thewater and sending it out.
Two parts per million back intothe environment, and it's
kicking the can down the road.
(12:19):
Somebody's going to have toclean that up because the
concentration keeps going up.
Now, if you think that's a bunchof malarkey, half of the wells
in the Central Valley, wheremost of our food is grown, are
shut down now through highsalinity.
And a lot of that comes fromwater softeners and reverse
osmosis systems.
That reject goes into theaquifers, and the salinity is
(12:42):
going up.
Right now, where I live here inArizona golf courses are having
a big problem using recycledwater because the salinity now
is too high.
These are all the things that,you know, you read the signs, we
have a problem.
The other thing is, like insofteners when you think of the
design of a softener.
Softener is going to takecalcium in which, when contacted
(13:05):
with air at the end of yourfaucet creates calcium
carbonate.
Okay.
So it's wow, that's not good.
Cause I get all these spots andI got all this stuff and what a
pain.
But a softener removes all.
Of the calcium and it exchangesit.
It's called an ion exchange.
So it's going to exchange itwith sodium.
So what you end up doing isexchanging your calcium for
(13:26):
sodium.
And I think most of us know,like high sodium is something we
should really be concernedabout.
And there's a lot of research.
I won't go into the details of,health effects of people on
softeners versus not onsofteners.
They also, because nothing lastsforever as you're exchanging
calcium for sodium, pretty soonyour ion exchange resin is
(13:49):
loaded with calcium.
So you have to run down to ahardware store, buy a 40 pound
bag of salt and refresh orrecharge the ion exchange system
and take the calcium off andreload it.
With sodium ions and all that,then there's a rinse cycle.
And what all of this is doing istaking that 40 of salt and
(14:10):
putting it right back into youraquifer.
Okay, so these are the thingsthat, we haven't been taught,
about filtering water.
Ina (14:20):
And Owen, is it true that there are certain states that
are banning softeners nowbecause of what they're doing to
the environment?
Owen (14:28):
There are certain states I'll call them municipalities
within states that are doingthat actively.
And most of it starts inCalifornia.
But because the Central Valleyhas such a problem, that's where
a lot of this activity isstarting.
We're seeing it out here.
I believe there's areas inMinnesota and Wisconsin now,
targeting water softeners.
Glenn (14:51):
So maybe doing that here as well in Florida where
everybody lives on the coastit's not very deep and everybody
wants a beautiful lawn.
Everybody wants to putchemicals.
Everybody's using softeners.
It's like our aquifer is justdestroying the sea life and a
lot of things in the area.
Yeah.
Ina (15:10):
Oh, and what about biofouling if we go back to
reverse osmosis for a moment?
Because we didn't know this inNew Jersey when we had our
reverse osmosis under our sink,but there's a lot of possibility
for biofouling.
So these tanks really need to besanitized.
It's not like it's just going toclean itself.
So can you talk a little bitabout that?
Owen (15:32):
So most RO systems it takes a lot of energy to push
water through a 0.
005 micron membrane.
So they're not referred to as ondemand systems.
In other words, you turn yourfaucet on and want two gallons a
minute.
The RO system you have under thesink can't produce that volume
of water without an enormousamount of energy.
So that's not what you have onyour sink.
(15:54):
You have one that produces maybea liter a minute.
So you have a five gallon tanktypically under your cabinet,
and that's filling with water togive you an equalized supply.
So when you turn it on, I cangive you two gallons a minute
out of that tank.
RO membranes will filter outbacteria, but the bacteria.
(16:18):
Isn't, a part of the rejectwater.
It sticks on the surface of themembrane starts to colonize on
the membrane and then starts togrow through the membrane gets
to the pure water side of themembrane and then gets into the
tank.
The tank have they have a, Irefer to it as a little flapper
valve in there because it's ahigh pressure tank and that
(16:39):
flapper valve is, prone to biofouling.
So you'll end up with bacterialcounts, in these R.
O.
Tanks, at very unsafe levels forconsumption.
a lot of people will put a U.
V.
Light on the tail end of thattank, but even then, that tank
(17:00):
should be cleaned every 30 days.
That's usually right in themanual, but nobody reads
manuals, so you won't see that.
And then the difficulty ofdisinfecting it.
A pressurized tank means thatmost people will never disinfect
that tank.
So they expose themselves to avariety of different bacterial
infections.
Ina (17:22):
Wow.
Interesting.
And then same for whole housereverse osmosis, right?
Which I don't think most peoplearen't doing that because of the
extreme expense, maintenance,electricity, the water bill, all
of the things.
But I would imagine we're stilldealing with that biofouling in
a whole house reverse osmosissystem as well.
Owen (17:43):
Yeah you're going to get biofouling in the tank and what
you'll get is, you'll get UVlights.
I don't think I've ever seen anRO system whole house without a
UV, because I guess when you'regoing to spend 20, 000 to put a
whole house system in, they canafford an RO, an ultraviolet
light.
Ina (18:01):
And a really frequent maintenance service contract,
right?
Because it's got to be so muchto be done to make it up to par.
Yeah.
Owen (18:11):
You look at a system like just quickly I'll hit on this.
So this is another the growth ofthe whole water industry and how
it's impact water treatment.
So you look at a whole house RO,so you have people that, you
know, inventors that invented ROmembranes.
Okay, then you have people thatdid housings, then you had
people that do activated carbon,and then you have people that do
(18:34):
UV lights, then you have peoplethat make storage tanks, you
have people that do pre filters.
So you have engineers that haveengineered this system, and then
you've got to make all of thattalk to each other.
So you have very sophisticatedcontrollers talking to each
other, giving you error messagesthat most people that have a
water system in their house.
Don't quite understand becausethe error messages aren't in
(18:56):
English.
They're usually coded, that youhave to look up.
This would be like me givingyou, error messages that you
would never be able tounderstand.
And then say here, I'm puttingthat on your home computer.
You need to put things inEnglish, make it simple, so
through the growth of the wholewater industry, all the
(19:18):
components that we use in awater system or just
manufactured by.
Four or five differentmanufacturers, and then
somebody's coupling them alltogether.
It makes it really difficult toget things to perform well.
Ina (19:32):
You know what's so interesting?
The EWG, the EnvironmentalWorking Group, which we do have
a lot of respect for thatorganization because they are
bringing awareness to consumersabout toxins in our food and our
water and so forth.
Sure.
But they do recommend, reverseosmosis.
Owen (19:48):
Sure.
EWG is not a water company.
That's all I have to say.
It's almost like neither is EPA,neither is FDA.
You might as well go to the FAAand get approval.
It's like a chipmunk.
Ina (20:04):
Exactly.
And that to my point, like youdon't know until you know when
you're in it, and you're reallyunderstanding and it's just
coming from a completelydifferent perspective.
Owen (20:14):
Not that I don't appreciate the, like the
environmental working group, thefact that they have put up on
their site.
And somewhat interpreted.
Everybody's water quality.
So if you're on a municipalsystem, you can pull up your
water quality by zip code, andit'll tell you how many toxins
are in that water.
They're harming you.
The analysis on some of theirsystems.
(20:36):
I could rip those systems topieces.
And they would never go in myhome.
Not that I'm the end all inwater treatment, but I work hard
at it.
Ina (20:46):
Yeah, and we appreciate your knowledge and all of your
experience, your expertise.
It's important information, itreally is.
So to wrap things up, Owen, doyou have any advice for our
listeners in terms of, a lot ofpeople do have these
Technologies in their homes.
And I always will say tosomebody, any filtration is
(21:09):
better than no filtration,right?
We're not saying rip out whatyou have and, put in new
technology, which we're going togo into on our next episode.
We have a bonus episode.
We are going to be talking aboutthe system that we represent,
but we're not telling people todo that We just want to bring
the awareness.
So what would you say to that?
Owen (21:31):
So in terms of filtration throw this out pretty quickly.
The fact that your water iscloudy is not an indicator of
its safety.
The fact that it's clear is notan indicator of its safety.
I tend to think of stuff not atthe molecular level, but at the
atomic level, it's like inhydrogen.
There are three differenthydrogen atoms.
(21:53):
Most people don't know that.
Now, one of those hydrogen atomscombined with two oxygen is
still water, but it's toxic anddeadly and it is found in water.
You, I think of these things interms of when somebody says, for
instance, PFAS.
And PFOA, everybody's concernedabout forever chemicals and,
(22:18):
regulators have gone off andsaid, we're going to set the
limit at somewhere between fourand 20 parts per trillion.
You're not going to see anythingin water at the per trillion or
part per billion to put that inperspective.
Cause I think most people thinkof toxic water is having a lot
of chemicals.
(22:38):
Think of a part per trillionwould be about a hundred.
University of Michigan footballstadiums filled from bottom to
top with water, and you'relooking for a grain of sugar.
That would be equivalent toabout a part per trillion.
So but that one little grain andthat volume of water damages
(23:02):
your cellular system.
Think about that.
That's how sensitive, thecellular system is.
And some of these toxins thatwe've been discharging, for the
last 150 years in air and watereverybody thinks, oh, we're
polluting water.
Every time it rains, water getspolluted.
Because it takes everything outof the air, saturates the water,
(23:23):
and then that hits, oceans, ithits all your soils.
So there's no way of avoidingtoxins in water.
So every single person should bedrinking filtered water.
Because I can say Adamantly,there is no safe water left on
this planet to drink, none.
Ina (23:43):
And it's the sad truth, and I do believe that is the real
reason why we see so much cancerand all of these other, horrible
diseases.
It's epidemic it's just aserious health crisis.
And this is a big contributor.
Yeah.
Glenn (24:02):
We're excited that we were able to have you on and
bring light to some of thisinformation that I think people
are unaware of, they're tryingto do their best, and it's hard
to, get through the smoke ofwhat some of the information is
when it's really geared on salesinstead of, pure health,
Owen (24:20):
people, and I think the important thing is to delineate.
High purity water from healthywater.
Those are two separate anddistinct things, and people
think, Oh, it's so pure.
I'll give you another example.
Advertisements and people havegot a little meter in the water
and go, look, it's got a zero.
It's yeah, don't drink thatwater.
(24:42):
Okay.
And here's the other thing thatpeople don't that meter that
they're using.
Guess what?
It doesn't measure bacteria,viruses, pharmaceuticals,
pesticides and PFAS.
Those would show up as a zero,even though all of those things
I just said are all out ofcompliance.
Ina (25:00):
there's so much that we don't know.
So many of us are just in thedark, right?
And we really appreciate youbringing this to our awareness
and learning even more from you.
So any last thing that you wantto share, Owen, with our
listeners before we Wrap it up.
Owen (25:16):
I just appreciate you having me on so I can elucidate.
Here's some of the issues andconsiderations and water and
search out the people that haveless sales and marketing and
more credibility.
Exactly.
Absolutely.
Do the right thing.
Yeah, exactly.
Hard as that is to do it.
Ina (25:36):
Yeah.
Oh, thank you.
Oh, and we so appreciate.
You taking the time maybe atsome point we'll have you on
again and we can go into someother things as well.
I could listen to you all daylong
Owen (25:48):
to
Ina (25:51):
our listeners.
Thank you so much for tuninginto this episode of the toxic
truth about water.
We hope you're walking away withvaluable insights on how to
protect yourself and your lovedones from hidden water toxins.
Glenn (26:03):
If you found value in today's episode, be sure to
subscribe.
Don't miss the upcoming bonusepisode that we got coming up
next.
You're going to really love thatone where we tell you what our
favorite solution really is.
And as always feel free to sharethe podcast with your friends
and family, anybody who couldbenefit from this information.
And until the next time,remember, we are all in this
(26:25):
together, everybody.
So keep questioning, keeplearning and stay healthy and
stay informed.
Much love to you guys.
Ina (26:32):
Much love to you guys.
Bye.
Bye now.
Welcome to the Toxic Truth About Water.
We're Drs.
Glenn and Ina, and in thispodcast, we're uncovering the
hidden dangers lurking in yourwater and how those contaminants
impact your health.
Ina (00:11):
After decades of exploring natural health, we've learned
the importance of clean, safewater, and we're here to share
that knowledge with you.
From the effects of toxins andcontaminants to the solutions
you need, we've got the insidescoop, so let's dive in.
Glenn (00:29):
Yeah.
Alright.
We have a really good one today.
Ina (00:32):
Yeah.
Excited.
And so just to catch you guysup, we ended off our series The
Toxic Truth About Water, andwe're bringing a couple of bonus
episodes to you guys, and we areso excited for today's episode.
We have a very special man onour podcast today, Mr.
Owen Boyd.
(00:53):
And I just want, to have Owenshare a little bit about his
background but I always refer toOwen literally as one of the
smartest people I know, and Owenprobably doesn't realize that,
but Glenn and I have been inenough conversations and just
really getting where he's comingfrom and the knowledge and the
(01:14):
experience that he has.
So Owen, thank you so much forbeing here.
Our listeners will so appreciatehearing from you.
So let's start out.
If you could just share a littlebit about your background and
how you got into water to thedegree that you're in it now.
Owen (01:33):
It's that's a long story, but I'll try and be as brief
about that as I can.
Because I was trained in financeand computer science coming out
of college.
Nothing to do with molecularscience at all.
Just let's go make some moneywriting software programs in AI.
So I started that and Was doingreal well, having a lot of fun,
and then I had my first sonborn, missing a left hand, and
(01:56):
that was like an earthshattering event for me, not in
the terms of he was missing ahand doctors.
had no idea why that could havehappened.
Everything was like it might be,something in their DNA.
It could be this, it could bethat.
I'm going that's not good enoughfor me.
I need to know.
So I started researching.
And once I started researchingthat was the beginning of the
(02:17):
end for me.
Cause I still research.
I probably read three to fourresearch papers every single day
today, trying to keep up withthe science because it's going
so fast.
But discovering that theaffliction with a High rate of
confidence was caused by theremoval of an amalgam filling.
(02:38):
In a dental chair caused thataffliction caused me to jump on
this bandwagon and startremoving mercury from dental
offices.
So I ended up developing asystem just for that purpose.
I ended up testifying in frontof Congress.
Several times to educate them onthe dangers and hazards of
(03:00):
mercury.
And essentially sold a lot ofsystems into the dental market
to remove mercury.
And as a result actually wasawarded an award by engineering
news record as, one of the mostinnovative technologies for
mercury removal because I wasmoving more mercury out of
dental offices than Was beingremoved from coal fired power
(03:21):
plants.
That's how much mercury wasbeing consumed by that industry.
But that put me into water, andlearned that I knew nothing
about water and that wasn'tacceptable to me.
So I started jumping into thiswith reckless abandon I need to
know at the molecular level,what is water.
(03:44):
And we all think of water.
Oh, it's h2o.
There's no h2o, 100 percentsolutions of water anywhere on
this planet because water is awonderful solvent.
So things dissolve in it.
It's also an excellent carrierof material.
So there's all kinds ofparticles in it.
It's also It's ability tochange.
it's electrical charge andformat changes.
(04:07):
Based on whether the water's insunlight or not.
So things like this, they'reexciting to me because it opens
up the potential for how to fixwater.
I've started several companiesin water treatment with a
guideline to provide waterthat's healthy.
And essentially water that meetsmy mass balance requirement,
(04:30):
which is do no evil.
Don't fix one problem and createa bigger one downstream.
Ina (04:36):
Yeah.
And that's amazing.
So it all started with really,cause you were not in this at
all until your son had thatbirth defect, right?
Yep.
Owen (04:46):
That's correct.
Ina (04:47):
Wow.
And he's good now.
How old is your son now, Owen?
Owen (04:50):
He is 40 and he's an engineer in water treatment.
Ina (04:54):
Wow.
Okay.
So we're going back 40 yearsago.
I always thought it was a one ortwo years longer than that.
So I'm glad we're getting theaccuracy.
Very cool.
So then you got into dental andmedical grade water, correct?
Where you were working a lotwith medical and dental
practices.
Yeah.
Owen (05:13):
Sure.
Yep.
Yeah.
Hundreds and hundreds of dentalpractices.
There's about 180, 000 dentaloffices in the United States
alone.
We deal now let's see I think wehave about 150, 000 systems out
there in dental offices.
So we did quite well on thedental markets.
Ina (05:31):
Wow.
Owen (05:32):
But I went to the detail, when I say don't do any harm,
it's like filtering mercury outof water was great, but now I
had containers loaded withmercury.
So what do we do with them?
So instead of just throwing theminto landfills or throwing them
into the ocean we had a program,I got it approved in all 50
states, got it approved by thedepartment of transportation
where we could transport allthis to a recycling center and
(05:55):
recover the mercury.
Ina (05:57):
Wow.
That's Amazing.
So one of the things that Glennand I really want you to share
with our listeners, Owen, we'vebeen down here in Florida for
three years.
We've always been very concernedabout the toxicity in our world,
whether we're talking water,air, food, 5G, all the things
(06:20):
are having a big impact.
And in our clinical practice andthrough the years, we've worked
a lot with toxicity.
And personally, we've always hadwater filtration.
I shouldn't say always, but fora very long time, both in New
Jersey and then certainly whenwe moved to Florida.
It was top priority.
And, we only know what we know,and you can only research as
(06:42):
much as you can research unless,someone like you that just dives
in and just really understandsto another level.
And that's who we love to learnfrom.
But when we came down here, werealized that A lot of the
people in this area do watersofteners.
We've always known reverseosmosis to be a very common way
(07:06):
that people will filter out thecontaminants in their water.
And in New Jersey, we had awhole house carbon filtration
system, and we had reverseosmosis on for our drinking
water, which we re mineralized,knowing that It's removing the
minerals.
When we moved down here, wewanted to match as best as we
(07:26):
could, because again, that'swhat we thought was the best way
to, get the contaminants out andprotect ourselves and our
family.
And so we did the similar thing,but we also added the softener
because in Florida.
Everyone gets a softener.
So we're like, oh, I guess weneed to get a softener.
As we learned and, immersedourselves in, especially since,
(07:49):
being involved in the industrynow and hearing you and other
experts.
Talk about the downside.
We ended up replacing oursystem.
And so we want our listeners tounderstand why you would never
recommend these technologies toanybody that you love and care
(08:11):
about, right?
These are not necessarily theway to go.
Can you share more on that,Owen?
Owen (08:17):
Listening to what you had before activated carbon
remineralization reverse osmosisI look at all of these things
and say, okay, so they don'tmeet my mass balance
requirement, at all.
For instance, the reverseosmosis system you need to have
a very elegant pre filtrationsystem to an RO because RO, I
call that the art of littleholes, okay, which is standard
(08:40):
filtration.
You go to Home Depot Lowe's, youbuy a filter.
It's the art of little holes.
You can buy a 20 micron, a 5micron, or if you get into RO,
0.
005 micron, and that's why itrejects salts because that pore
is so small, but one of thethings about RO is, because it's
such little holes without greatpre filtration you're probably
(09:03):
going to destroy the RO membranevery rapidly.
Okay, because it will clog withany particulate.
The other thing that r.
O.
is not really a filter.
We always categorize it as afilter, and it's not a filter.
I refer to that, a diverter.
So what it's going to do isreject particles that are
(09:25):
smaller than 0.
005 or things in solutionsmaller than 0.
005 that reject goes into yourwastewater and what permeates
through the membrane is Youknow, this high purity water.
Now you had the good sense toremineralize it.
Most people don't, they juststick something under their sink
(09:46):
and go with it.
But RO water, at the at thecellular level, and I actually
learned this through dentistry agood dentist will be able to
pick off people that run RObecause their teeth start to
dissolve.
It's a phenomenal solvent waterlooking for things to dissolve
(10:06):
and calcium, of course, whichyour teeth is pretty much made
out of is going to dissolve inour own water.
If you also look at the cellularlevel, which is why I tried to,
understand in my research what'sthe difference between good
water and bad water?
What does the word hydrationmean?
It doesn't mean just drinkingwater.
(10:27):
You've got to get water acrossthe cell membrane into the
cells.
And for the most part we've beentaught that's through the,
process of osmosis.
It goes through these cells viaosmosis.
And it turns out that's not.
Quite correct.
It actually is driven byaquaporins that open and close
in the outside of the cell wall.
Millions of aquaporins areletting things in and out of the
(10:50):
cells, including nutrients.
They don't just permeatethrough.
The body's got a design to it,and it's an intricate design,
incredibly sophisticated.
When people, when you think ofcells, you think of liver cells,
you've got brain cells, you'vegot bone cells, you've got blood
cells.
It goes on and on, and they alltalk to each other, thousands of
(11:13):
times per second.
What makes that water go throughthe cell wall and reverse
osmosis water?
It doesn't help things gothrough the cell wall, I call it
the water molecule.
If you look at it, H two.
Oh, they cluster togetherthrough standard filtration.
And including an oral membranethat's rejecting water.
(11:36):
I'm trying to set things up sothey actually have a better
chance of getting through thatcell wall, giving you a healthy
cellular response, a highermetabolism, all of these things
critically important to health.
But if you look at the number ofgallons that RO rejects reverse
osmosis system, especially likea little under the sink system.
(11:58):
It's gonna reject somewherebetween 25 and 50 percent of the
water.
So it's a concentrator.
So what it's doing is takingcontaminants that may come in at
one part per million.
It's rejecting that in half thewater and sending it out.
Two parts per million back intothe environment, and it's
kicking the can down the road.
(12:19):
Somebody's going to have toclean that up because the
concentration keeps going up.
Now, if you think that's a bunchof malarkey, half of the wells
in the Central Valley, wheremost of our food is grown, are
shut down now through highsalinity.
And a lot of that comes fromwater softeners and reverse
osmosis systems.
That reject goes into theaquifers, and the salinity is
(12:42):
going up.
Right now, where I live here inArizona golf courses are having
a big problem using recycledwater because the salinity now
is too high.
These are all the things that,you know, you read the signs, we
have a problem.
The other thing is, like insofteners when you think of the
design of a softener.
Softener is going to takecalcium in which, when contacted
(13:05):
with air at the end of yourfaucet creates calcium
carbonate.
Okay.
So it's wow, that's not good.
Cause I get all these spots andI got all this stuff and what a
pain.
But a softener removes all.
Of the calcium and it exchangesit.
It's called an ion exchange.
So it's going to exchange itwith sodium.
So what you end up doing isexchanging your calcium for
(13:26):
sodium.
And I think most of us know,like high sodium is something we
should really be concernedabout.
And there's a lot of research.
I won't go into the details of,health effects of people on
softeners versus not onsofteners.
They also, because nothing lastsforever as you're exchanging
calcium for sodium, pretty soonyour ion exchange resin is
(13:49):
loaded with calcium.
So you have to run down to ahardware store, buy a 40 pound
bag of salt and refresh orrecharge the ion exchange system
and take the calcium off andreload it.
With sodium ions and all that,then there's a rinse cycle.
And what all of this is doing istaking that 40 of salt and
(14:10):
putting it right back into youraquifer.
Okay, so these are the thingsthat, we haven't been taught,
about filtering water.
Ina (14:20):
And Owen, is it true that there are certain states that
are banning softeners nowbecause of what they're doing to
the environment?
Owen (14:28):
There are certain states I'll call them municipalities
within states that are doingthat actively.
And most of it starts inCalifornia.
But because the Central Valleyhas such a problem, that's where
a lot of this activity isstarting.
We're seeing it out here.
I believe there's areas inMinnesota and Wisconsin now,
targeting water softeners.
Glenn (14:51):
So maybe doing that here as well in Florida where
everybody lives on the coastit's not very deep and everybody
wants a beautiful lawn.
Everybody wants to putchemicals.
Everybody's using softeners.
It's like our aquifer is justdestroying the sea life and a
lot of things in the area.
Yeah.
Ina (15:10):
Oh, and what about biofouling if we go back to
reverse osmosis for a moment?
Because we didn't know this inNew Jersey when we had our
reverse osmosis under our sink,but there's a lot of possibility
for biofouling.
So these tanks really need to besanitized.
It's not like it's just going toclean itself.
So can you talk a little bitabout that?
Owen (15:32):
So most RO systems it takes a lot of energy to push
water through a 0.
005 micron membrane.
So they're not referred to as ondemand systems.
In other words, you turn yourfaucet on and want two gallons a
minute.
The RO system you have under thesink can't produce that volume
of water without an enormousamount of energy.
So that's not what you have onyour sink.
(15:54):
You have one that produces maybea liter a minute.
So you have a five gallon tanktypically under your cabinet,
and that's filling with water togive you an equalized supply.
So when you turn it on, I cangive you two gallons a minute
out of that tank.
RO membranes will filter outbacteria, but the bacteria.
(16:18):
Isn't, a part of the rejectwater.
It sticks on the surface of themembrane starts to colonize on
the membrane and then starts togrow through the membrane gets
to the pure water side of themembrane and then gets into the
tank.
The tank have they have a, Irefer to it as a little flapper
valve in there because it's ahigh pressure tank and that
(16:39):
flapper valve is, prone to biofouling.
So you'll end up with bacterialcounts, in these R.
O.
Tanks, at very unsafe levels forconsumption.
a lot of people will put a U.
V.
Light on the tail end of thattank, but even then, that tank
(17:00):
should be cleaned every 30 days.
That's usually right in themanual, but nobody reads
manuals, so you won't see that.
And then the difficulty ofdisinfecting it.
A pressurized tank means thatmost people will never disinfect
that tank.
So they expose themselves to avariety of different bacterial
infections.
Ina (17:22):
Wow.
Interesting.
And then same for whole housereverse osmosis, right?
Which I don't think most peoplearen't doing that because of the
extreme expense, maintenance,electricity, the water bill, all
of the things.
But I would imagine we're stilldealing with that biofouling in
a whole house reverse osmosissystem as well.
Owen (17:43):
Yeah you're going to get biofouling in the tank and what
you'll get is, you'll get UVlights.
I don't think I've ever seen anRO system whole house without a
UV, because I guess when you'regoing to spend 20, 000 to put a
whole house system in, they canafford an RO, an ultraviolet
light.
Ina (18:01):
And a really frequent maintenance service contract,
right?
Because it's got to be so muchto be done to make it up to par.
Yeah.
Owen (18:11):
You look at a system like just quickly I'll hit on this.
So this is another the growth ofthe whole water industry and how
it's impact water treatment.
So you look at a whole house RO,so you have people that, you
know, inventors that invented ROmembranes.
Okay, then you have people thatdid housings, then you had
people that do activated carbon,and then you have people that do
(18:34):
UV lights, then you have peoplethat make storage tanks, you
have people that do pre filters.
So you have engineers that haveengineered this system, and then
you've got to make all of thattalk to each other.
So you have very sophisticatedcontrollers talking to each
other, giving you error messagesthat most people that have a
water system in their house.
Don't quite understand becausethe error messages aren't in
(18:56):
English.
They're usually coded, that youhave to look up.
This would be like me givingyou, error messages that you
would never be able tounderstand.
And then say here, I'm puttingthat on your home computer.
You need to put things inEnglish, make it simple, so
through the growth of the wholewater industry, all the
(19:18):
components that we use in awater system or just
manufactured by.
Four or five differentmanufacturers, and then
somebody's coupling them alltogether.
It makes it really difficult toget things to perform well.
Ina (19:32):
You know what's so interesting?
The EWG, the EnvironmentalWorking Group, which we do have
a lot of respect for thatorganization because they are
bringing awareness to consumersabout toxins in our food and our
water and so forth.
Sure.
But they do recommend, reverseosmosis.
Owen (19:48):
Sure.
EWG is not a water company.
That's all I have to say.
It's almost like neither is EPA,neither is FDA.
You might as well go to the FAAand get approval.
It's like a chipmunk.
Ina (20:04):
Exactly.
And that to my point, like youdon't know until you know when
you're in it, and you're reallyunderstanding and it's just
coming from a completelydifferent perspective.
Owen (20:14):
Not that I don't appreciate the, like the
environmental working group, thefact that they have put up on
their site.
And somewhat interpreted.
Everybody's water quality.
So if you're on a municipalsystem, you can pull up your
water quality by zip code, andit'll tell you how many toxins
are in that water.
They're harming you.
The analysis on some of theirsystems.
(20:36):
I could rip those systems topieces.
And they would never go in myhome.
Not that I'm the end all inwater treatment, but I work hard
at it.
Ina (20:46):
Yeah, and we appreciate your knowledge and all of your
experience, your expertise.
It's important information, itreally is.
So to wrap things up, Owen, doyou have any advice for our
listeners in terms of, a lot ofpeople do have these
Technologies in their homes.
And I always will say tosomebody, any filtration is
(21:09):
better than no filtration,right?
We're not saying rip out whatyou have and, put in new
technology, which we're going togo into on our next episode.
We have a bonus episode.
We are going to be talking aboutthe system that we represent,
but we're not telling people todo that We just want to bring
the awareness.
So what would you say to that?
Owen (21:31):
So in terms of filtration throw this out pretty quickly.
The fact that your water iscloudy is not an indicator of
its safety.
The fact that it's clear is notan indicator of its safety.
I tend to think of stuff not atthe molecular level, but at the
atomic level, it's like inhydrogen.
There are three differenthydrogen atoms.
(21:53):
Most people don't know that.
Now, one of those hydrogen atomscombined with two oxygen is
still water, but it's toxic anddeadly and it is found in water.
You, I think of these things interms of when somebody says, for
instance, PFAS.
And PFOA, everybody's concernedabout forever chemicals and,
(22:18):
regulators have gone off andsaid, we're going to set the
limit at somewhere between fourand 20 parts per trillion.
You're not going to see anythingin water at the per trillion or
part per billion to put that inperspective.
Cause I think most people thinkof toxic water is having a lot
of chemicals.
(22:38):
Think of a part per trillionwould be about a hundred.
University of Michigan footballstadiums filled from bottom to
top with water, and you'relooking for a grain of sugar.
That would be equivalent toabout a part per trillion.
So but that one little grain andthat volume of water damages
(23:02):
your cellular system.
Think about that.
That's how sensitive, thecellular system is.
And some of these toxins thatwe've been discharging, for the
last 150 years in air and watereverybody thinks, oh, we're
polluting water.
Every time it rains, water getspolluted.
Because it takes everything outof the air, saturates the water,
(23:23):
and then that hits, oceans, ithits all your soils.
So there's no way of avoidingtoxins in water.
So every single person should bedrinking filtered water.
Because I can say Adamantly,there is no safe water left on
this planet to drink, none.
Ina (23:43):
And it's the sad truth, and I do believe that is the real
reason why we see so much cancerand all of these other, horrible
diseases.
It's epidemic it's just aserious health crisis.
And this is a big contributor.
Yeah.
Glenn (24:02):
We're excited that we were able to have you on and
bring light to some of thisinformation that I think people
are unaware of, they're tryingto do their best, and it's hard
to, get through the smoke ofwhat some of the information is
when it's really geared on salesinstead of, pure health,
Owen (24:20):
people, and I think the important thing is to delineate.
High purity water from healthywater.
Those are two separate anddistinct things, and people
think, Oh, it's so pure.
I'll give you another example.
Advertisements and people havegot a little meter in the water
and go, look, it's got a zero.
It's yeah, don't drink thatwater.
(24:42):
Okay.
And here's the other thing thatpeople don't that meter that
they're using.
Guess what?
It doesn't measure bacteria,viruses, pharmaceuticals,
pesticides and PFAS.
Those would show up as a zero,even though all of those things
I just said are all out ofcompliance.
Ina (25:00):
there's so much that we don't know.
So many of us are just in thedark, right?
And we really appreciate youbringing this to our awareness
and learning even more from you.
So any last thing that you wantto share, Owen, with our
listeners before we Wrap it up.
Owen (25:16):
I just appreciate you having me on so I can elucidate.
Here's some of the issues andconsiderations and water and
search out the people that haveless sales and marketing and
more credibility.
Exactly.
Absolutely.
Do the right thing.
Yeah, exactly.
Hard as that is to do it.
Ina (25:36):
Yeah.
Oh, thank you.
Oh, and we so appreciate.
You taking the time maybe atsome point we'll have you on
again and we can go into someother things as well.
I could listen to you all daylong
Owen (25:48):
to
Ina (25:51):
our listeners.
Thank you so much for tuninginto this episode of the toxic
truth about water.
We hope you're walking away withvaluable insights on how to
protect yourself and your lovedones from hidden water toxins.
Glenn (26:03):
If you found value in today's episode, be sure to
subscribe.
Don't miss the upcoming bonusepisode that we got coming up
next.
You're going to really love thatone where we tell you what our
favorite solution really is.
And as always feel free to sharethe podcast with your friends
and family, anybody who couldbenefit from this information.
And until the next time,remember, we are all in this
(26:25):
together, everybody.
So keep questioning, keeplearning and stay healthy and
stay informed.
Much love to you guys.
Ina (26:32):
Much love to you guys.
Bye.
Bye now.
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