Insights and Reflections: Challenges in Engaging with Tony Robbins' Techniques

Tracking Wisdom

Season 1 Episode 25

Insights and Reflections: Challenges in Engaging with Tony Robbins' Techniques

Recorded - 03/17/25

This podcast episode delves into the nuanced topic of engaging with Tony Robbins' priming exercise, emphasizing the pivotal experiences and challenges encountered by the hosts, Ryan and Peter. They aim to provide a reflective follow-up to their previous discussion, exploring how individual physical capabilities may influence one’s ability to partake in such exercises. The conversation highlights the importance of accessibility in wellness practices, as well as the broader implications of gratitude and offering, touching upon historical and cultural contexts. Throughout the dialogue, Ryan and Peter advocate for an open-minded approach, recognizing that while certain methods may not resonate with everyone, the underlying principles of gratitude and self-reflection remain universally beneficial. Ultimately, they encourage listeners to engage with the material in a manner that aligns with their own experiences and capacities.

Takeaways:

• The discussion centers around the challenges associated with engaging in Tony Robbins' priming exercises, particularly the breathing component.
• We explore the potential barriers that arise from physical limitations when attempting to follow along with high-intensity breathing practices.
• The conversation highlights the significance of gratitude and offering in personal development, emphasizing their role in fostering well-being.
• I express the notion that discernment is crucial when evaluating teachings, as it helps differentiate between beneficial practices and those that may be misguided.
• We acknowledge that practices can be adapted to ensure accessibility for individuals with varying physical abilities, underscoring the importance of inclusivity.
• The episode concludes by inviting listeners to share their experiences with the discussed practices, promoting community engagement and feedback.

Episode Resources

• Official Website of Tony Robbins: Personal & Business Results Coach | Tony Robbins
• Practice Priming daily | Tony Robbins - Tony Robbins created a 10-minute daily exercise called "priming," based on techniques found in yoga and Buddhist mindfulness meditation. Priming is the act of taking time to adjust your thoughts and emotions so you can train your mind to live in your peak state. Tony Robbins uses priming as a part of his daily morning ritual to revitalize his mind and unleash the power of each day. Use it as a part of your own morning ritual to master your emotions and train your brain to accept positivity. This exercise can help you retrain your mind and let go of negativity and past thoughts that are holding you back from your optimal performance and life. It might feel strange at first, but if you practice priming regularly, you’ll experience an incredible shift in the quality of your thoughts and emotions.

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Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Views, interpretations andopinions expressed are not advice
nor official positionspresented on behalf of any organization
or institution. They are forinformational and entertainment purposes
only. Now join Ryan and Peterfor another episode of the Tracking
Wisdom Podcast.
Good morning, everybody.Welcome back to another episode of
the Tracking Wisdom Podcast.I'm Ryan.

(00:27):
And I'm Peter.
And today we're doing a bit ofan impromptu follow follow up from
our last episode, which was onTony Robbins priming Exercise. This
is part of our miniseries thatwe're doing on my takeaways from
the Time to Rise Summit. Youcan listen to the first episode of

(00:49):
that if you want moreinformation on the Time to Rise.
But last episode we talkedabout priming, and today we wanted
to kind of follow up and givesome insight on our experiences.
Peter has gone through one anda half or so, and I have still only
done the one exercise. So Ithink we want to kind of touch base

(01:14):
and report on our experiencesand challenges with it and kind of
go from there. So go ahead.
Yeah. So just to follow up ona couple of things I said last time
I had mentioned that Irecognize this yogi yogic style of
breathing, right. That he.That he was doing a breath of fire.

(01:36):
And when I showed it to mywife, she was like, oh, that. Yeah,
we used to do that in yoga. Soit is that I said, oh, and did you
do the hand motions too? Andshe's like, yeah.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah. Okay. So.
So it's a thing.
It's a thing. So my. My firstcomment or. Or thought, which I had
thought about last time andthen I forgot to mention it, was

(01:57):
that. That I noticed in thevideo that in the audience, some
people are basically. I mean,obviously some people just aren't
going to participate. But whatI think I actually saw and what I
was aware of, just in general,is that some people aren't able to
do it the way that he does it.And especially if you don't have

(02:18):
upper body mobility, you mightnot be able to reach over your head
the way he does. And thereason it stands out to me is because
I just finished a teachingprogram and part of their emphasis
was on making teachingsaccessible to people and that this
might not work for you as anindividual. And so we offer an alternative.

(02:43):
And as we had said last time,of course, Tony's really designing
this to the bell curve, right?Maximum impulse impact for the majority
of the population, whichincreases his impact a lot, which
is great. But it also meansthat, you know, if you're in the
tails of the bell curve, youMight feel a little bit put off.

(03:08):
You know, you might not beable to keep up. You might. So. And
I think. I don't know if Isaid this last time. I just made
the comment, like, I'm sure ifyou get a private session with him,
right, Then it's customtailored to, you know. Well, Tony,
I prompted. Oh, this is, youknow, there's a fix for that. So
just. I just noticed that. Andthen in particular, I did notice

(03:31):
kind of the rhythm becausehe's doing an intense rhythm. And
I. I notice in the audience inthe video, there are absolutely people
who are trying to keep up butcan't, you know. So I did do one
session last Friday of thefull. I sat in front of the video
and did it as he did it, anddefinitely, you know, was impressed.

(03:51):
Like, this is a really goodexercise. This is a really good practice.
I have to say that three.Three rounds of 30 breaths is pretty
intense, as you said. Yeah,like, that's pretty intense. Yeah.
So if you're not. If you're.If you're somewhat infirm, you're
definitely. You may not beable to keep up. I'm not sure about

(04:14):
my terminology. Say you'refirm. But if you. If you're not.
If you're. If your physicalstate doesn't allow you to do that
intensive breathing, it. Yeah.You just won't. And so I guess my
question is, you know, and I.And I. I haven't really apologized
because I didn't stop andthink this through before getting

(04:35):
on mic, but, you know, isthere something that we could offer
as an alternative? And I don'tknow, like. Because I actually don't
know enough about this type ofbreathing to really know what it's
doing. And so I guess what Iwould say is I'm sure the exercise
is valuable even without that component.

(04:56):
Yeah.
So that's. That's. I want toput that out there, though, as opposed
to. This is the primaryexercise. Oh, I can't do it because
I can't do. Because of numberone. You know, and at the same time,
for me personally, that wasthe part that really put me off the
boat.
Right.
Like, oh, I don't want to dothat. Right. So I didn't do the rest
of the thing. Right. Like, ittook me until Friday to actually

(05:19):
get around to doing it becauseI felt intimidated by the. By the
breathing part. So it's just athought. Basically, as we said so
many times, don't throw thebaby out with, like, if you can't
do the first step, just dowhat you can. Do what you can and
get the benefit that you canget out of this. This offering. Oh,
offering, which is the, theother. Wow, that was. I did not mean

(05:42):
to segue like that. So Iwanted to follow up on a comment
I made last time of. Because Ireferenced a Tibetan deity practice
called the Green Towerpractice, also the seven limb practice.
And I said that I recognizedthat the connection between offering
and gratitude. And I want toclarify. So Ryan and I spoke briefly

(06:06):
off mic about, you know, whatmight be our listeners ideas offering.
You know, if you've been to achurch, you know, and passed the
plate and that idea ofoffering, that's not what I was talking
about. And so in this kind ofTibetan deity practice, which I think
is Vajrayana branch of.Anyway, I won't get to that. But

(06:31):
anyway, the offering is asymbolic offering and you may actually
set up an altar with sevencups and you may actually put like
some fresh fruit in one cupand some flowers in another cup and
some. What. There's differentways of doing it. There's, there's
a way where you just, you putwater in every single one and the

(06:52):
water symbolizes this or as Ido it, you might not have an altar
at all. You might do the, thewhole thing internally. And so, so
again, traditionally there's aphysical offering, but even those
physical offerings aresymbolic. Like you're not taking

(07:13):
food from your plate.
Right.
You know, and you're not.Basically it's not the idea of sacrifice,
which I think might be somepeople's idea of offering.
Right.
I mean, I think the idea oftithing conveys sacrifice. And that's
not, I mean, obviously ifyou're, if you're making an internal

(07:35):
spiritual offering, you're notsacrificing anything. And the instruction
that I had was offering, offerup all the best that you have in
your life. And that's why Imade the connection of like, oh,
well, this is the same asbeing grateful. It's like I'm offering,
you know, I was offering mydaily practice. I was offering the

(07:56):
love of my family that I getfrom my family, you know, all these
things. And so that's why Iwant to clarify. Like when I express
it that way, it I thinkbecomes much more obvious that oh,
this is a gratitude practice.Now there are seven steps as I referenced
seven limbs to this practice.And I'm trying to think if there's

(08:18):
an. Because it's actually I'vebeen away for a while from that.
I don't think there's anactual separate gratitude step. There's,
there's a forgiveness step andthere is a confession. Oh, what's
the word you brought upearlier? Like asking for forgiveness.
Re.
Repenting.

(08:38):
Repentance. There's arepentance step and there's an asking
for assistance step, but Idon't think there's a gratitude step
separate from the offering. Sojust, that was the connection I was
making around and that's thekind of, that's what I meant by offering,
not, you know, what might bethe more common experience for certainly

(09:02):
an American audience of goingto church and have the offering plate.
Did you, did you want tocomment? Because we had a little
conversation about that.
Yeah, well, I do want to talkabout that real quick, but before
I do, I wanted to touch backto your original comment about the
breathing. And I mean, thisis, this is also my observation.

(09:23):
This breathing exercise is anobstacle for me to engaging with
the practice. And it's notreally a super rational reason I'm
perfectly physically able to,to perform it, but it is, I wouldn't
say off putting, but there's afriction there, you know, resistance.
There's resistance. And Ithink in part because it's the first

(09:45):
thing you do, it makes it hardto step off that ledge. Right. If,
if it was embedded somewherein between and I could start doing
the practice, it probablywould not be as resistant. But because
it's like, o do this, I don'twant to do that. You know, it creates
a barrier and you know, youmake a good point. As far as from,

(10:07):
I don't want to call it aproduct, but if you think about this
as like a product, from aproduct standpoint, creating it to
align with the largest pool ofpeople makes sense. And to keep it
simple and succinct andarticulated into a thing, acknowledging
that there's certainly waysyou can go about this in alternative

(10:30):
means that creates andprovides the same kind of value.
I don't think this is the onlyway you can do this. I think there's
an opportunity or it would benice if Tony maybe vocalized a little
bit, especially acknowledgingphysical, you know, physical body
challenges. That might be anobstacle. Not just like, I don't

(10:50):
want to, but, you know, peoplewho physically can't do this or,
you know, somebody who has noarms, obviously you can still do
this practice in a manner thatcreates the same outcomes. And I
think primarily the biggestvalue comes from all the stuff that
happens after the breathing,which is stuff that last time you

(11:11):
seem to identify as consistentwith, with you had identified it
as consistent with certainpractices that you're familiar with.
And it certainly aligned verymuch with me with maybe not practices,
because I don't engage so muchwith practices, but the idea behind
it was intuitive. And I gotlike, kind of where we were going

(11:35):
with that, and I found oridentified this as a valuable thing.
Like, oh, yeah, I could seehow going through these steps in
this order, but I don't thinksequence is super important. But
I think there is anintentional sequence that brings
you through from, you know,the gratitude to, you know, recognizing

(11:55):
what you want and where you'regoing, and then, you know, recognizing
where you're proud and beingable to visualize this journey. I
think there is some intentbehind it or intentionality behind
it, but at the end of the day,I don't think that the sequence really
holds that much value asopposed to actually engaging with
these meaningfully. I thinkyou make a good point. And while

(12:18):
I was inclined to make anassertion that I understood so you.
You said something along thelines of, you know, I don't know
what this kind of. From theyogic perspective, I think I don't
know what. Not the purpose,but I don't know what this is, how
this is supposed to work, orwhat it's supposed to do. But that
is the question, right? How dowe do what it's supposed to do in

(12:41):
a manner that's alternative tohelp people who may not engage with
it? And, I mean, I think thekey to this, the key to starting
with it. But this is, again,my assumption. I'm not familiar with
the yogic breathing, which itsounds like it is either a form of
or essentially is thatexercise. But it is intended to get

(13:05):
you physiologically andtherefore mentally kind of prepared
for this, the subsequentpieces of the exercise. So, I mean,
if there's a way. I mentionedit last time, of course it still
creates a barrier, even thoughI mentioned last time I'd be more
inclined to do a more relaxingbreathing to get myself mentally
prepared, I still haven't doneeven that, you know, so I find that

(13:29):
interesting that thisbreathing thing, although on the
face of it, is not all thataversive. Bringing myself to do it
seems to be a barrier toactualizing the practice.
So, yeah, I think, you know,what we're getting down to is asking,
well, what's essential aboutthis practice? Right. What's Tony

(13:50):
actually doing right for uswith this? And so, of course, you
know, gratitude is. It's apretty essential, universal orientation
to have right just to be. It'san Essential part of happiness is
being grateful. I mean, andit's one of those circular things,
like, if you are in a goodspace, it's very easy to feel gratitude.

(14:17):
You have gratitude show upspontaneously. And if you're in a
challenging place, usinggratitude can help you shift. And
likewise, with thevisualization of a goal being completed,
right. That if you're. Well, Imean, it's. It's terminology. Going

(14:41):
back to terminology we've useda lot. Fundamental well being. If
you're in touch withfundamental well being, if you're
in your. Your optimal self,you're gonna tend to have a very
optimistic orientation towardsthe future. You're. If you think
about something that needs tobe done, you're gonna tend to like,
wow, you get to do that, youknow, and maybe not literally visualize

(15:04):
it completed the way theinstruction is for this exercise,
but you're going to beoriented that way. And if you're
not in a good place, thenfollowing Tony's instruction is going
to make you tend more towardsthat heart space. So my experience
was, Friday, I did this. Iliked it. I found it helpful for

(15:28):
the day. Oh, that's the thingthat you and I talked about this,
the timing. Because I thinkTony says, do this first thing in
the morning. And I think bothof us kind of had like, oh, I can't
do that first thing in themorning. And so I didn't do it until,
you know, after I was up andshowered and fed that, I went to
my desk and I'm like, okay,let me do this thing. Because I said

(15:51):
I was going to do it. Andguess what? It was still good. Right?
You don't have to do. It's notone of those things where you have
to follow the instruction tothe left better, otherwise you've
done it wrong.
Right.
You know, it's all good. Evenif you do part of it, it's better
than not taking care of yourself.
Right.
And so. So the first day, Idid it a little, you know, after

(16:13):
I'd gotten up and everything,and. But I did the whole thing with
the video. The second day,what I said was, I did it in spirit
because I didn't do the br.Well, basically, I did not sit down
to do it at all. But. Butwhile I was journaling and having
conversation with my wife, Ipaid attention to recognizing that

(16:35):
I was going through all thesteps like I was having a period
of gratitude. I have a periodof planning where I was thinking
about what I was going to doin a very positive way. And I felt
Like, I was spirituallyconnecting with the steps that Tony
gives as instruction in thisexercise, which was also beneficial.

(17:02):
And even in theseconversations talking about it, I
feel gratitude arising. I feelthis positive attention arising.
Like, I'm aware of, you know,oh, I'm going to start teaching soon,
and that will be great. Soit's kind of. What's the word? I'm

(17:26):
kind of reconnecting to theessence of the practice, even though
I didn't do the practicetoday. Now, I think part of the reason
I'm able to do that is, as weknow, I've had pretty extensive grounding
in different practices, andthat's the purpose of doing this
every day. Like, if you don'thave other practices, this is a really

(17:48):
good way to directly connectwith some pretty essential orientations,
I would call them. Right.Which are just part of being happy.
I mean, I think that's whatTony teaches. I think he teaches
happiness. I mean, it's notthe way he packages it. What does
he teach? He teaches, like,action and effectiveness and success.

(18:10):
Right.
Yeah. And. But there's more toit. There's internal. I think you're
right as far as, like, the wayit's packaged is articulated in a
different way, but the essenceof it is essentially how to be fulfilled
and motivated and find themotivation to do the things that
you want to do that you feeldriven to do, but are finding it

(18:32):
hard to actualize.
Yeah. And I guess the lastthing I want to say is none of this
is a criticism of Tony's stuffat all. No, it's just pointing out
where it might not be a fitfor you, but you could still benefit
from it. And you don't have tobenefit from it. Like, you don't

(18:53):
have to, you know, oh, youshould go out and read Tony's book
or anything like that. He'sjust another teacher.
Right.
It's like, what's important isthat you find the teacher and you
find the practice and theteaching that you connect with. That's.
That's the most importantthing. But we're hoping it's helpful
to talk about these differentthings and point out some of the
essential things so that youcan start to recognize them as you.

(19:19):
As you do explore different.Different teachings. Like, there
are certain things. And wekeep on talking about perennial wisdom
and. Yeah, there. There arecertain things that are kind of,
I don't know, markers of truthor something like that.
Yeah.
That they're reliable. Yeah, Iguess that's what we're saying. Certain
things you can trust once yousee them.

(19:39):
And I think that was a bigpart of what made me inclined to
bring it to this forum, was Iwas surprised, pleasantly surprised,
and continue to be in awe of,I guess, you know, the depth to which
this perennial wisdom isintegrated into so much of life.

(20:02):
But it's not always sovisible. Right. And the. So that
was. That was part of whatmade me bring it here was, you know,
you. You mentioned Tony asanother teacher. And I think this
is good to bring to thisconversation because not everybody's
going to be interested in orinclined to find a more mystical

(20:24):
or theological path to thiskind of. I mean, it's wisdom, but
it's really theinternalization of the concepts that
are described through thisperennial wisdom and just kind of
bringing to light that, numberone, if you had the vision of what
Tony Robbins is that I had,you know, before, of just this really

(20:46):
high energy, go get amotivational speaker type person.
They're actually, what Irecognized is, is very powerful underlying,
timeless wisdom embeddedwithin these teachings. And to not
necessarily just write it off,but also, if you're not inclined
so much to find a moretheological or mystical or spiritual

(21:11):
kind of pathway to thiswisdom. Tony's work is a way that
you can do that.
I mean, I think that's thereally interesting thing is that
you can receive the sameteachings from a quiet, reclusive,
introverted teacher or fromthis bombastic, highly marketed celebrity

(21:36):
teacher. And the same teachings.
Right.
I think it's interesting thatyou shared with me earlier what Tony's
path was and that his path,you know, kind of started from this
place of physical need and, Imean, financial impoverishment. Right.
And it's like, I need a way tomove forward and make money. But

(21:58):
he had already come intocontact with some teachings, and
he said, I can make money byteaching this. And so I think he
built that. I think obviouslythat shaped his teaching.
Right.
It's like, well, I was able toget. Become successful, so I can
teach you how to becomesuccessful. Now, how did he become

(22:18):
successful? He becamesuccessful by coming to contact with
these core teachings. Right,Right. And then after that, it's
marketing. I mean, that'sjust. That was his path. It's a path
of marketing. And it's not abad thing. It's not a bad thing to
make money and be successfulso that you can share your success

(22:42):
with more people. And I thinkthat's what he does.
Yes.
And it's a doorway for peoplewho are oriented that way.
Right.
And it might be an obstaclefor someone who is put off. Yeah,
you know, I mean, definitelymy tendency is to be put off by flashiness
and money. And so, yeah, itinhibited my access to that because

(23:07):
I know people. I had a friendwho poured hundreds and hundreds
of dollars into multiple setsof his recording. I'm like, why do
you have four sets of histapes? It's like, well, you know,
it's helpful to hear it. Youknow, like, they were all different.
It's the same message, but he.He changed the way it's. And it's
helpful to hear it indifferent ways. I'm like, yeah, but

(23:29):
like, this is like thousandsof dollars. You know, it's like,
oh, but he's great. I'm like,okay. You know, but that was off
putting to me. But itresonated this.
Right.
Other person.
So, you know, which is thepoint that you were making about
finding the teacher and. Andthe methods that align with you and
work for you. And that doesn'tmean that the other teachers and

(23:54):
methods are wrong. It doesn't.If somebody doesn't align with this
kind of teaching, doesn't meanthat this teaching is wrong. It's
finding that pointer thatresonates with you, and it's not
always going to resonate withyou or could change. And that doesn't
mean that what you did was awaste or that it was wrong all along

(24:16):
and you were duped.
Right. So if you've been withus on our journey, this really turns
out to be what tracking wisdommeans for us, is we have fun following
or sniffing out maybe thewisdom in different packages, in
different paths. That's thesame wisdom. And we're just following

(24:38):
it through all these differentareas that we come into contact with
and we really enjoyrecognizing. It's like, aha, yes,
there it is.
Aha.
And, yeah, we hope you. Youget something out of that. That journey,
but it's fun for us.
I agree. And I think thatthat's one thing I would like to

(24:59):
try and encourage is we hadthis premise. We're going to revisit
it again soon. It was from ourperspective thesis, although I think
that thesis was well, wellestablished long before we came to
it. But we came to it throughan intuitive sense. It wasn't just

(25:19):
something that was given. Andthen we're like, oh, this is what
it. What it is. But thatthesis that there was an underlying
core teaching, core wisdomembedded. At the time, we were talking
more specifically about morespiritual and theological. But over
time, it's now a few yearsthat we've been kind of following

(25:43):
this path and finding so manydifferent areas. And I think what
you. The point you made, and Iguess it could be interpreted in
a weird way, and you kind ofwere making a face about when you
said it. But, you know, markerof truth. When I see this and I recognize
it, it brings some credentialand some validity to whatever it

(26:04):
is that I'm being exposed toat the moment. And it. Yeah, I guess
that's really.
Actually, I want to comment onthat because before, at an earlier
part on this journey, I thinkI would look at things. I had a tendency
to discredit someone if Irecognize the teacher teaching as

(26:29):
coming from somewhere else.
Huh. Okay.
So I think. I think I even hadan idea at some point of, well, Jesus
said this, but really, Buddhasaid that. Okay, Right.
Yeah.
As if. Right. Oh, well, he'sgetting it from this other guy.
It's not original.
And I think. Exactly. And I.And I think that there is a way of

(26:53):
thinking that tends to dothat. And, and so, you know, certainly
there will be listeners whoknow what I'm talking about, and
they're like, well, yeah, ofcourse. Like, you know, they're just
stealing stuff. And I thinkwhat we've learned is, no, this is
essential stuff that'sembedded in human experience. And

(27:15):
some people express it.
Right.
Right. I mean, yes, yes, thereare people who are scholars or there
are. There are teachers who,you know, call wisdom from different
sources. And yes, thathappens. But it's equally true that
because these are essentialtruths of human experience, that

(27:38):
they arise spontaneously indifferent teachers at different times,
and they're not derivative inthat sense. And I think in our intellectual
society, there's more tendencyto question and say, well, didn't
they get that from so and so.Right. Didn't Eckhart Tolle just
get that from. It's like, no.And. And so there's. There's. There's

(28:02):
a new teacher that we. We mayvisit in a little bit, Byron, Katie,
who I've known about for sometime, but I haven't really studied
her at all. And I started tolisten to one of her books this morning,
and the story of her had,like, how she started is very much

(28:23):
this. You know, she didn'tcome from this. A background, a particular
background of spirituality.It. She. She's one of those spontaneous
enlightenment people. And assoon as you come into contact with
her teaching, well, if. If youhave the kind of orientation that
we do, you come into contactwith her teachings and you start
immediately recognizing stuff.And yet, you know, I really don't

(28:47):
think like that she went andconsumed a bunch of scriptures or
whatever, different traditionsand said, oh, let me repackage this.
It's like, no, this was, thiswas spontaneous. As, as I understand
it, Eckhart Tolle's teachingsare as well. It's just some people
get access, direct access tothis in a way that allows them to

(29:12):
express it originally. Andthen you can recognize like, oh,
that's not original. Becauselots of other people. It's like,
yes, yes. People keep onsaying this stuff. Right.
There's a reason for that.Yeah, yeah.
You know, it's like if youhave two arms and two legs, it's
not because you stole thatfrom someone. It's like, yeah, that's

(29:34):
pretty much, you know, that'sa common experience. Yeah, that's
funny.
That's a good, that's a goodanalogy. It's true though. I mean,
and I think it's comes downto. Even the way I think about it
is. And I guess I don't wantto get too far into our conversation
that's coming. But even theoriginal of original teachers or

(29:55):
revelators didn't create this.This is just recognizing a fundamental
of existence. And thatrecognition, as you mentioned, can
spontaneously happen. And itcan also happen by coming in contact
with teaching. And I don'tthink either one is wrong. And I

(30:19):
think that however you can,however you come to and find the
underlying essence is okay andis good. And I think it's also beneficial,
at least to me. And maybe it'sjust me being curious and giddy about
it, but when you come to, whenone comes to the. To being exposed

(30:42):
to this, I guess it goes tothe pointer, right, that it's one
of many. And it's interestingto then open your observation and
perspective to see this in allits nuance and all its. Its derivatives,
you know, all of itsmanifestations and varieties over

(31:03):
time and in different domains.And it's cool. I like it. Obviously,
you know, it. It is somethingthat continues to fulfill me in finding
and observing it andrecognizing it. And I think it also
helps me to recognize how muchmore fundamental truth really is
still embedded in life, evenin, you know, the new tech age and

(31:30):
speed of which things happenand, you know, division, you know,
the culture that we live innow. Although I don' that it's really
all that different. I think I.I heard something recently about
Socrates or something who saidsomething that was like, I can't
remember it now, but itbasically said the same kind of thing.
Like everybody's Doing thisand that and whatever, as if it were

(31:53):
new and it's still kind of it.It presents in unique ways or different
flavors, but it's kind of thatsame underlying perception and that
there's an even deeperunderlying perception and awareness
that kind of embodies thistruth. And recognizing that even

(32:14):
amongst things that may seemdisparate or conflicting, I think
helps bring some harmony. Youknow, you had mentioned the gratitude
and the offering and I hadmentioned off mic with Peter. We
were talking about, you know,the traditional offering for church.

(32:34):
And I mean, we were talkingspecifically about awkwardness if
you're not going to give. AndI brought up how that awkwardness,
at least in my church, when,when it happened, you know, if it
came by, it wasn't. It feltlike an external pressure, like it,
like a social pressure, but itreally was an internal pressure which
was, I'm the one judgingmyself and asking, I'm not giving.

(32:59):
Why am I not giving? And isthere really a good reason not to
be giving, offering. And, andI was mentioning, you know, my own
personal experience as far asyou describe tithing. And I think
it's accurate as far as theperception in modern day that as
a sacrifice. And I think thatit's unfortunate because I do believe,

(33:22):
at least as far as Iunderstand the purpose of tithing
is not specifically sacrifice,but faith. And, and I think the idea
of faith also getsmisconstrued that the faith, I don't
think like it's presented likefaith that God will provide, but
what I think that is meant tobe is releasing scarcity, mindset

(33:45):
and, and having faith thatyour circumstances will allow you
to share this. And in the NewTestament specifically, it's talked
about the joyous giver andprioritizing, like giving out of
guilt or feeling obligated outof obligation is not really giving.

(34:07):
It's not truly embracing andembodying the intent and isn't getting
the value. Right. So I justwanted to touch on that in case some,
somebody in the audience waslike, that's not what tithing is.
You know, I think thatunfortunately has been perverted
to some degree and certainlythe reliance of institutions on the

(34:29):
finances that they receive.And occasionally I think they use
tithing as a way ofmanipulating in a way. You know,
I think it's a harsh word, butI don't think it's necessarily inaccurate
that there's a way of coercingpeople into giving. And yet at the
same time, if you're givingout of coercion or obligation, I

(34:50):
think you're not really givingat that point. You're sacrificing.
And sacrificing doesn't reapthe benefits of gratitude and it
doesn't reap the benefits ofreleasing the scarcity mindset and
all those things which I thinkis ultimately the purpose of these
practices.
Yeah. And I think, I think youalso touched on faith, which is another

(35:14):
term problematic or loaded maybe.
Yes.
And what it made me think ofwhen you said faith, it's like, well,
it's okay. So I think a lot ofpeople mean by faith or a lot of
people think that faith means.Right. Is I believe this thing. It's

(35:35):
a statement of what I believe.And not only that, but there's a
faithfulness where I cannotchange what I believe. Right. I will
not change what I believebecause I am faithful.
Right.
And I'm trying to figure outin the moment where, how that relates

(35:57):
to trust because to me, faithconveys more of trust than of belief.
Yes, right. It's not beliefintellectual. Right. But again, it's
one of those things, you know,I don't want to attribute nefarious
motivations to it. Right. Butit happens that it's one of those

(36:19):
words that's become changed.
Right.
And has absolutely beennefariously co opted intentionally
perverted in somecircumstances. In some circumstances.
But. And also. But also hasdrifted or has taken on meanings
in other circumstances where Iam right now, my understanding of

(36:45):
faith as a valuableexperience. Really what we're talking
about is trust.
Yeah.
And which goes exactly to whatyou were saying about scarcity mindset.
Yeah, right. It's not, it'snot really, to me, it's not about
a belief in specifics.
Right.
It's about a sense of trustand safety and which is. It's a quality

(37:10):
of awakening. And so it goesback to the idea of, well, where
are you? Right. And if you arein this space, what does this word
mean? Right. Or if you're notin this, if you're not feeling a
quality of awakening, thenwhat does faith mean? You know, then
faith is a tool. It can be,just like we were saying with Tony's

(37:32):
practice, it can be thesethings can be tools to get you to
make your experience tend moretowards awakening. Or these things
can be characteristics of yourwaking experience. Right. They can
come, it can go either way.And I think likewise faith, I think

(37:53):
a common teaching is you musthave faith because that is how you
will get to this place.
Which is, I guess it's notwrong, but it's not right in the
way it's presented.
Yeah, I think. All right, nowI'm going to get into some specific
theological stuff, but itseems to be arising, you know, the

(38:15):
idea of the one path, the one way.
Right.
Only through me.
Right.
Or only through this. I thinkthat's, I'm going to say perversion,
but I don't want to, I don'twant to castigate believers. Right.
I think it's a turning of thistruth, which is there's no awakening
experience without faith.Like, if you are an awakening, you're

(38:39):
experiencing trust.
Right.
That does not mean, and thisis where it gets twisted, that the
only way you can come into anawakening experience is to start
with faith.
Right.
And that has become ateaching. And there are people who
will kill over that idea, youknow, at the very least attack you.

(39:01):
And so that's why I feel youcan hear my, my hesitation because
this is, I'm being provocativeand controversial, but this is my
understanding of from where Iam now, that that is a mistaken conceptualization
of a true teaching.
Right, right, right.

(39:22):
The true teaching is. Yeah,you can't, you can't have one without
the other. Which is differentfrom saying, first you must do this.
Right.
And then you will have theother. No, they will spontaneously
coexist.
One is illustrative of theother. I mean, is that fair to say
that, like if you.
Yeah, I call it acharacteristic of experience?

(39:43):
Yeah, yeah.
You will recognize it.
Right.
And you won't not recognizeit. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Where
did that come from? I guessbecause you, you mentioned faith.
Right. But I, I like, I mean,I, I obviously, I 100% agree with
the framing and I like thatyou brought trust. I think that's

(40:05):
a great way to characterizewhat the essence of faith is. And
it's not a intellectualbelieving. It is intrinsic trust.
I guess here's, here's aparadox and not the kind of paradox
that I talk about in terms ofbeing able to hold two opposing ideas

(40:28):
simultaneously, but this is areal contradiction kind of paradox
in that people describe faith.Well, let me put it this way. If
you're one of the faithful, ifwe're going to put a quotes or capital
F or whatever, that's anattachment, which is the opposite
of trust. And that's what Ijust want to point out is that it's

(40:49):
kind of where the lost intranslation kind of thing that, that
I think people believe. Yeah.They believe in attachment when really
what it refers to is a nonattachment. Trust is a non attachment.
Right.
It's a letting Go. And this issomething that, I mean, if you're

(41:10):
exploring in this area, you'llrecognize that phrase of letting
go.
Yeah. So I wonder then is Idon't want to get too far off on
the digression, starting toget out of scope, but I do want to.
Does that mean going back tothe perennial philosophy, perennial
wisdom, and recognizing it asa marker? Does that then in the context

(41:32):
of this discussion, is it fairto say that we can, in the pursuit
and practice of our chosenpointer, so to speak, in our chosen
teachings, teacher apply theperennial wisdom as a mode of discernment?
And if the teaching, or ifthe. It's not even necessarily the

(41:55):
teaching, but if the result,the resulting experience of the teaching
isn't in alignment with thesefundamental aspects of experience,
that there's a caution therebecause it's not always the teaching.
I mean, what we're talkingabout is a teaching that has become
misunderstood and misapplied.It's not that the original teaching

(42:16):
in its original meaning wasnecessarily off the mark.
I mean, I think. I think youruse. So the word discernment is the
problem because discernmentbelongs in this area of experience
and exploration. And I thinktoo often it's lost. And more than

(42:38):
lost, I think it is devalued.Sure, right.
Yeah.
And again, we're talking about toxic.
Right.
Institutionalization. We'retalking about power issues where
basically people are told notto be discernment. Like if you seem
to be discerning, then you areunfaithful. Oh, yeah, right. You

(42:59):
are questioning. Which is kindof the opposite of a marker of a
true path. If the pathrequires a lack of discernment, I
would say that's not a true path.
Yeah.
Because I mean, I thinkcuriosity is a marker of. Curiosity

(43:20):
and exploration are markers ofthe awakening experience and a lack
of discernment and arequirement for unquestioning belief
attaching to, I don't know,something, you know, that's instructed,
something that's given as amust. Yeah, exactly. So just that

(43:41):
I. I think just a caution thatif discernment is a problem for you,
then you might have a problem.I mean, that might not be. Yeah,
there might be a problemthere. Wow.
So a bit of a digression. Itwas an impromptu conversation, so,
you know, we ended upfollowing that. That thread.

(44:04):
We sure did.
I hope you found value in thisconversation. And if you're looking
for a practice and don't knowwhere to go if you're not inclined
towards spiritual, theologicalpath. Path is pathways, which I don't
know if they'd be listening tothis podcast. Anyways, if you're

(44:26):
curious about Tony TonyRobbins, he does have his free priming
audio. You can find it onYouTube. You can find it on his website.
The practice, at least in ouropinion, is valuable and worthwhile
if you're so inclined to tryit. And if you do try it, let us
know how you feel about it.How do you feel about the breathing

(44:47):
exercise that seems to be anobstacle for us, but maybe not for
you. And what do you thinkabout it? So we love to hear from
you. Until next time, stayopen, stay curious, and keep tracking
Wisdom.
Thank you for listening to theTracking Wisdom podcast. Join us

(45:08):
next time as we continue thediscussion. Don't forget to follow
us on Facebook, Instagram andYouTube, and visit www.eth-studio.com
for more information and.