April 3, 2025 • 40 mins
Tracking Wisdom
Episode 19
The Dichotomy of Contentment and Growth: A Contemplative Inquiry
Recorded - 01/06/25
DESCRIPTION
This episode delves into the intricate dynamics of practice and the seemingly paradoxical nature of engagement versus contentment. We elucidate the concept that while the pursuit of knowledge and methodology in our respective practices is often deemed essential, it can inadvertently detract from the organic joy and authenticity of the experience itself. I articulate a personal observation regarding the tension between formal training and natural expression, using the metaphor of learning guitar to illustrate the potential pitfalls of over-analysis in creative endeavors. As we navigate these reflections, we emphasize the significance of being present and allowing one's inherent light to shine, rather than becoming ensnared in the expectations of external validation. Ultimately, we invite listeners to contemplate their own experiences of non-doing and the essence of simply being, fostering a deeper understanding of their paths in the journey of existence.
Key Takeaways:
- The expressions and viewpoints articulated within this podcast do not constitute formal advice but rather serve informational and entertainment purposes exclusively.
- The ongoing discourse emphasizes the significance of practice, particularly in relation to the experiences articulated by Michael Lyden and Alan Chapman.
- Listeners are encouraged to recognize the importance of their experiences as valid, regardless of whether they conform to conventional definitions of practice or progress.
- Engaging in activities that could be perceived as practice does not necessitate formal organization, as the act of participation itself can embody the essence of practice.
If this content has been meaningful or entertaining for you,
consider showing your support to help make this content possible.
Review us on Podchaser
We are grateful for your gifts.
Have a discussion topic idea or show feedback? Use the Suggestion Box link below!
Tracking Wisdom Reflections (Substack)
Social Media:
License: Unless otherwise noted, all excerpts of copyright...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Views, interpretations andopinions expressed are not advice
nor official positionspresented on behalf of any organization
or institution. They are forinformational and entertainment purposes
only. Now join Ryan and Peterfor another episode of the Tracking
Wisdom Podcast.
(00:23):
All right, good morningeverybody and welcome back. I'm Ryan.
I'm Peter.
And we are back to continueour conversation that started last
episode discussion betweenMichael Lyden and author Alan Chapman.
And I had a personalobservation that came out of watching
this content and I wanted tokind of separate because while it
(00:48):
was realized or internalizedto some degree in response to to
the content, it may spawndigression and we may come back to
it. So this is something thatI am having a hard time articulating
and so I have a little bit ofapprehension about my ability to
coherently discuss this. Ithink one part to just kind of kick
(01:17):
off and I don't not 100% surehow relevant this piece is, but part
of my observation started withAlan had made a comment about practice
and the importance ofpractice, importance of continuing
practice, something to thateffect. Yes, and I have a resistance
(01:41):
to that concept. I'veexpressed this before and it's. It
is a very paradoxicalexperience because on one hand I
immediately resist theterminology and the assertion and
yet when it is then furtherdiscussed, I see where they're going.
(02:02):
Like I get the point, I getthe value and in many ways probably
actualize some of that value.And in part this touches back on
my perception that I don'thave practice, I don't engage in
practice. And as you'veidentified for me or helped me to
to see is that while it maynot be formal or organized practice,
(02:27):
there are activities. Is thisme? Sorry. There are activities that
I routinely engage in overtime that could be considered practice.
I don't know why that'srelevant. It was just part of the
observation that again, Iresisted this assertion that practice
is requirement. And I think inpart I think it sort of was a springboard
(02:52):
toward this broaderrealization. And over time I've recognized
some of of this experience amuch stronger way. Last night when
I was listening to this, andI'm going to provide disclaimer,
I guess to you and to theaudience that what I'm going to say
(03:15):
it touches directly on thework that we're doing here. And I'm
not suggesting in any way thatI want to like stop doing this work,
but it addresses sort of.
I mean, everything we say isworking stuff out, right? We don't
know what the hell we'retalking about. We're just. You're
so you're just working it out.That's fine.
(03:35):
It has to do specifically withthe reaching out and the consumption
of teachings. All theseteachings that were coming in contact
with. And it's been. There'sbeen many positive things that have
come out of this experienceand I've recognized and last night
(04:02):
it seemed to culminate in someway to the. To the point where I
felt like I needed to expressthis. I feel like sometimes it causes
regression in a way. Andregression is. Is a term that is
inappropriate for what thisactually is because there's no progress
(04:23):
or regress. But in a lot ofways the experience that I had prior
to this work, the, theorganic, uneducated, you know, just
the way I was, was moregrounded in the experience than sometimes
(04:51):
I feel like now like sometimesI feel like delving into these things
raises more question and itcreates a hesitation or otherwise
disrupts that organic naturalexperience that I have. And it's
been interesting because whilethat in and of itself could be described
(05:18):
as sort of a negative orregressive type thing, there's been
some really positive thingsthat have come out of this. Namely
putting context and vernaculararound the experience itself, I think
has been super helpful andimportant and even more so. And I've
explained, I've discussed thispreviously too. I think it was around
(05:40):
the time we first talked aboutthe finder stuff is understanding
or better understanding theexperience of other people. Because
prior to all this interactioninterface with these schools of thought
and with the people involvedin them, it expressed previously
(06:02):
that, you know, I never feltdifferent. Right. And so for me,
the natural understanding andexperience of what experience is
was that the suffering isn'tnecessary, it's not a requirement,
whatever it is. The thingsthat I observe causing people struggles,
(06:26):
the things that they call outin pain. Why is this happening or
why does this have to be? Iintuitively understand that that's
not necessary. But what Ididn't understand was the realness
and the necessity of theexperience for them in them at that
(06:46):
time, right. That. That was adisconnection. And so working with
this material has helped me tobetter understand. While it's simple,
it's not easy kind of thingthat that understanding and having
a little bit more grace aroundthe challenge many people have around
(07:08):
their own experience, ametaphor had come to mind. And I
felt like in the time this wasa really good metaphor. What I was
connecting this experiencewith. This is bringing it to a very
benign thing is self taughtguitar. The point is I feel like,
(07:33):
or this experience feels likeI had this intuitive or self taught
experience and was playingguitar and enjoying playing guitar.
And then I started readinginto theory and getting into the
mechanics of it. And it's beeninteresting to say, oh, that's why
(07:57):
I felt this way about thismusic. Or this is why this works
and having some of thatcontext. But in the process I'm playing
less guitar. And therealization to some degree is this
learning isn't important, it'sfun. And again, this is where I wanted
(08:19):
to kind of throw thatdisclaimer. I'm not suggesting that
I want to abandon this work,but it's not important to my progression,
it's not important to myguitar playing. This is how I'm feeling
about it. What I'm meant to dois not teach guitar. And this is
(08:40):
for me, there's nothing wrongwith teaching guitar. What I'm finding
alignment with is playingguitar just being my. My work here,
my purpose is theparticipation in the creation. And
this is where I think it. Wemay touch back to the video where
you're talking because when hecame, when he was talking about creation,
(09:03):
this is a very, I guess,resonant it. The idea of awakening
and the pursuit of awakeningisn't playing like it's not being.
(09:26):
There is teaching, there islearning that others can have in
observation of my being, butthat my role in this is to just be
a light to shine and to be ademonstration of the light that is
within everyone. That none ofus is more or less that that light
(09:51):
is there. Whether we shroud itand hide it, or whether we let it
shine bright. We all havethat. There's nothing to find, there's
nothing to gain, there'snothing to earn. I guess awakening
is to understand that thatlight exists within you, within us.
And then the work becomes tolift the veil, lift the shroud. And
(10:16):
I think my place is just to bea bit of a beacon that there is light.
I don't know, it's like nowit's starting to feel self aggrandizing
and stuff. And it's really notmeant to be that. But my point is
I've intellectually had and Ithink spiritually had a desire to
(10:37):
share the existence of thisessence within everybody. And the
natural conceptual way ofdoing that is to talk is to speak,
it is to teach it in that way.And what I find is that's not my
primary modality of being ableto teach. My primary. Primarily my
(11:02):
role here is just to be. Justto shine as bright as I can and and
let that be enough. I'vestruggled a little bit with. Well,
I've struggled in many wayswith this. But one way I've struggled
is. So I've experienced timeswhen I have lifted the shroud off
(11:24):
of my light and just been asun, whatever. You know, I'm trying
to use visuals here, but. Andthen there are other times when I
will bring that shroud back onand. And dose the light. There are
two primary times that I findthat happens. Number one, when I'm
(11:46):
asked. And what I mean by askis not directly asked, but through.
Through interactions withother people, I. This comes to conditioning
basically, right? Like I allowother people's conditioning to trigger
my own conditioning. And byconditioning, I'm using the metaphor
(12:07):
of bringing a. A shroud aroundthe light, the second one. So that's
something, of course, I canalways work on. And to just remember
the purpose is to shineregardless. The second, though, and
this one is a little bit moretouchy or sensitive, is that there
(12:32):
are times that that lightcauses pain and that pain is manifest
in ways like how do you. Orwhy don't I. Kinds of questions and
conversation, right? Like,it's nothing that I'm doing, but
(12:54):
the observation of the piececreates struggle and conflict within
people that I care about. Andthere are times that I will shroud
my light in order to notcreate that. And I think that's not
(13:16):
what I should be doing. Idon't think that's the best way for
me to align with what I feeldrawn to do. But it happens, you
know, and so I don't. So Iguess this is essentially the general
synopsis. I could ramble onwith more metaphor. That just probably
(13:38):
goes over the deep end at somepoint. But essentially this is what
I was coming to, is thatthere's nothing for me to do except
to be and to create and toparticipate in this and enjoy it
and show my love and enjoymentof this act of creation with everybody.
(13:58):
And I guess I'll. Before Istop, I wanted to touch. You had
a question right at the end oflast episode when you. We, but it
was in your context, arefeeling like you're touching the
infinite. Is that touching theinfinite? Or is it just a higher
level of conditioning? And Ithink that it is touching the infinite
(14:23):
because that infinite spark iswithin all of us and it's fractal.
It's been parsed out. And Ithink that as we all recognize that
essence within ourselves andthen likewise within others, the
more the defined the divinebecomes made manifest into what it
(14:45):
is. And it. Eventually we allrecognize it and therefore there
is no more division. But Idon't think that that spark is not
the infinite. Does that makesense? So I guess I'll stop there.
That's essentially what keptme up last night.
(15:09):
This is really interesting. Sothank you for sharing that. Yeah,
very interesting. And toucheson a bunch of things that I'm. It
certainly elicits a lot in meto hear you say this. I mean, I,
I think our, our process is,you know, just to share how we respond
(15:32):
to each other experience.Right. I am, I'm looking at, I'm
examining the, the shining andexisting and non doing. And I guess
I'll start with the questionwhich is, you know, about how your
(15:54):
just being affects otherpeople. The way I'm interpreting
what you're saying is thatpeople close to you can get frustrated
when you're just being andyou're not having reactivity the
way they expect you to have.Or I think you, you implied some
kind of jealousy of like, whycan't I be as relaxed?
(16:19):
Yeah.
And I'm wondering, I'm pausingbecause I'm trying to see why I'm
saying what I want to say. ButI'm just gonna put it out there because
that's what we're doing,right. It's like, it's not, I'm not
(16:39):
making judgments or, orsaying, well, I think this is what
you're, you're going through.I'm wondering if it's a very common
experience of awakening. Nondoing is kind of an essential, common
experience of awakening. Andlike what you're describing as just
(17:02):
playing guitar or just shiningor just participating, creation,
just being. Right. Is that.
Yep.
Fair. And one of the firstthings I kind of. My first responses
as you started to go throughthis was the observation of my experience
(17:28):
of periods of doing and nondoing. And I think this is, you know,
kind of what Chapman touchedon as well, is like getting stuck
in what he calls stuck. Andwe're putting air quotes because
we're having that discussionof, well, is that bad? So one way
of interpreting what you'redescribing. Let me offer that. Right.
(17:51):
And I've kind of had thisquestion. It's kind of an ongoing
question because you have thisexperience of early or permanent
or like early awakening or notremembering a non awakened time.
And so my question is, isn'tthat itself a condition? And I think
(18:14):
so. In our usage andpredominantly my usage of conditioning,
I tend to use conditioning torefer to problematic conditioning.
But it's been repeatedlypointed out to me in the PoK community
that everything isconditioning, right? And so basically
until we get out of the spacetime interface, everything's conditioning.
(18:39):
And the way that we experiencethe infinite is conditioned. We're
experiencing theunconditioned, we can touch the unconditioned,
but our experience of it isconditioned. Does that?
I think so.
Makes sense.
I think so.
I mean, I've said this before,like as long as we are incarnated
in a human brain, then we'reconstrained. And so in that sense,
(19:01):
or you know, as I saidearlier, as long as we're in space
time, we're constrained, we'reconditioned. And so what I'm saying
is that your experience ofshining and just being and all that,
that's still conditioned. Andso what I'm postulating is that you
(19:22):
find yourself in an extendedperiod of non doing that started
very early. That your path,like the way you're experiencing
awakening process is that in aspiritual sense because you either
were born with a clear senseof the awakening path or awakening
or fundamental being orwhatever you could call it, right?
(19:45):
That it became this extendedperiod of spiritual nondoing. I mean,
obviously you've had aproductive life. It's not that kind
of non doing, but there'sanother kind of non doing. And then
you reached out to me and westarted exploring in a way that neither
of us have explored before.But for you it's quite different
because I've. I was already aseeker. And so I think what I'm proposing
(20:09):
is that there's moredissonance for you. There's more
discomfort in kind of comingout of that phase of non doing and
wanting to stay, you know, andit's not, and it's not a judgment
of like, oh, but you should begrowing or oh, you should be progressing.
It's just, oh, this is justthe way you're experiencing. Like
(20:29):
this is your path has thisquality of this huge extended period
of non doing. Which doesn'tmean that's not going to change.
It doesn't mean it's not goingto evolve. But I think really there's
no way not to be attached toit if that's what's familiar to you.
Right? I mean, for a very longtime. So yeah, so I've been talking
(20:53):
to people a lot lately aboutnon doing. I mean, it's come up,
one of my friends mentioned, Ithink it's how I met her. I think
it's how I met her because shementioned non doing in, in a group
and I was like, oh, we need totalk. And. And it's actually been
(21:13):
kind of a central element ofour relationship is talking about
non doing. And I mean, nondoing means a lot of different things.
It's expressed in a lot ofdifferent ways. Like it can be a
pra. It can be part of thepractice itself. It's paradoxical,
right? The practice of nondoing. Do some non doing. But it
(21:37):
is. I mean, it is a specificform of meditation that we talk about.
And in fact, I heard theinstruction recently. I think it
was a talk. It was like, so,you know, at the end of every period
of meditation, you should tryto have a period of non doing, of
a period of just letting themeditation go and just being, because
(22:00):
that's the actual essence ofmeditation. And I think that it's
kind of like sinking in, whichis that, you know, it's something
that Jeffrey teaches, is thatwhen you. When you have fundamental
being and there are times whenyou touch it, it's important to just
sink in because that's whatwill help you to progress. And I
(22:21):
mean, guess the way I wouldexpress it is you're touching the
infinite or you're touchingthe unconditioned. And if you focus
on that experience of touchingthe unconditioned, it kind of lets
that portal open. It's likerelaxing into it. So I think. I mean,
it's interesting to me tothink of that because I've. I've.
(22:43):
Ever since you've described,you know, recognizing fundamental
well, being as being yourinherent condition, I've always had
this question, like, how do Irelate to that? Right. And how. I
mean, you've had theexperience of, like, how do I relate
from where this is, right? Andso now from. From a bigger perspective.
(23:09):
Well, from the perspective offundamental beings. Not a goal, right?
It's a characteristic ofawakening. It's a fundamental, recognizable
characteristic of theawakening path that I think Jeffrey
defines as like, it's thetransition point, right? But it's
(23:32):
not awakening.
Right.
It's a characteristic ofawakening. And this is where I think
I understand what Crowley issaying is that if you think fundamental
well, being is awakening andthat you should be trying to stay
there, then you're not seeingthe nature of awakening. It doesn't
(23:52):
mean that it's a bad choice.It's just understanding what it is.
And so I think what the wayI'm interpreting what you're saying
is really. It's a weirdinterpretation because I'm like,
listening to you. I'm like,oh, oh, your conditioning is such
(24:15):
that you're gonna stay infundamental well being like to a
larger extent than mostpeople. Right. And you're experiencing
some discomfort around findingyourself in that. Like that's the
way it is for you. Does thatmake sense? I mean, discomfort in
(24:35):
the sense that you don't likecausing pain for other people, but
it is doing that. Yeah, butthat's why what I'm saying is that.
But that's just conditioning.That's. Yeah, like, I think there's
like, in a way you have asimplified condition. You know what
I mean? Like, it's not, that'snot a multi layered.
(24:56):
It's not like, not deep either.
It's not like multi layeredtrauma where it's like, oh, there's
this, then there's that. Andthen like, oh, I just realized that
this, you know, I have to dealwith this. It's taken on face value.
Yeah, that's. I mean, becauseI, I don't, I don't know you. But
(25:17):
it would be a simplifiedcondition. Right, but what I'm saying
is that it's still a conditionand that's okay because I mean, we,
we don't judge ourconditioning, but it's the difference
between just reckoning. Oh,okay. So that's condi. It's. It does
sound paradoxical though,right? It's like, oh, my conditioning
(25:40):
is that I'm attached tofundamental well, being. Well, of
course, but I think that'skind of the same thing that Chapman
was saying and that I wastouching on. It's like, well, it's
a choice or it's. It's not.It's a choice and it's not a choice.
Right, because if you'reconditioned, then it's not a choice.
You're conditioned to make thechoice of having, as you said, like
(26:02):
having. Realizing that yourrole is. But I sense some discomfort
in the expression of that. Andso that's why I'm saying that's what
makes me kind of realize like,oh, that's the conditioning. I don't
know. There's something. Yeah,it's, it's.
I think that was helpful. Itbrought up two contemplative. Contemplative
(26:25):
questions basically pointedback at me. But I'm going to articulate
them to you and maybe we canwork through this together. I think
touching on maybe theprogression and the deepening aspect,
there's a resistance, I think,to an interpretation on my part that
(26:47):
what is being taught is that Ineed something more. And I think
this is exactly what you weretouching on and that I don't Feel
like I need anything more. I'mnot inclined. I do this work more
so because the greater part ofthe project we're doing here and
(27:11):
the work that we're doing isinteresting and aligned with my place
in creation more so than I'mfollowing this to deepen my own experience.
I think. I think that again,to touch or to. To make explicit
again, if it wasn't explicitalready, that there has been true
(27:31):
value that has come out ofdoing this sick, you know, quote,
unquote, textbook kind of workand bringing awareness and context
and vernacular to theexperience. But I don't think it
has specifically deepened theexperience, nor am I really looking
(27:52):
for it to do so. Maybe itwould. And this kind of leads to
the second contemplativequestion, which is going to the metaphor.
If we think about a trainedguitarist, they are inherently a.
They're not inherently. It ismore likely that you will become
(28:12):
a fine guitarist. A finemeaning, like a prized guitarist
with the textbookunderstanding and knowledge and fundamentals
over somebody who is onlyorganically learning this on their
own. There. There is likely tobe some level of plateau for that
person. That person being theperson who is pursuing learning guitar
(28:34):
on their own, organicallywithout the fundamentals, there's
likely some level of plateau.So the question then becomes, and
there is no right or wronghere, obviously, am I more content?
Is it more aligned with myintent and. And desire to just play
(28:56):
guitar and am I content withthe level of playing guitar that
I have? Or is there true valuein becoming a fine guitarist and
going down into. Into moredetailed fundamentals? Even though
(29:17):
it's going to take away timethat I can play guitar, it's going
to disrupt the enjoyment ofplaying guitar and that. That flow
state of being in. In theplay. But the outcome could be. It
doesn't guarantee. But theoutcome could be that I become a
better guitarist. That was anobservation. I don't know if there's
(29:39):
really an answer to thatbecause it really reflects on me,
what the hell do I want? But.
So.
But that's what I'm feeling.
So. So my. My question, it'swhat the hell? No, my. No, my immediate
question is what's asking the question.
Right. I mean, ego's askingthat question, right?
I'm gonna say the question.The nature of a question is doubt.
(29:59):
Yeah, I mean, well, notnecessarily there's curiosity. I
guess that's the question.Maybe, you know, is that a question
of doubt or is it a questionof curiosity? It sounds like a question
of doubt.
No, I would say curiosity. Butmaybe. Maybe doubt. Now, I wouldn't
say doubt.
It could be doubt. I'm not sure.
Let me ask my ego. No, because100%. Without a doubt. Without a
(30:25):
doubt, I'm content and. Andhappy being in the place that I am.
And. And that's the. That's aclear marker, right, of like, yeah,
contentment is contentment.And so why the question? I mean,
I think that's the condition.I think that's, as you said, that's
the ego. There's someconditioning there that feels like
(30:48):
it has to ask the questiondespite the contentment.
Yeah, I guess.
Right. So. Aha. So we foundsome conditioning. I mean. I mean,
I feel like that's just toobserve. Right. It's like, you know,
you're content, and yetthere's still some element of conditioning
that says, oh, well, maybe Ishouldn't be content.
(31:12):
So I think what. I think it is.
What's the choice?
The. The conditioning is beingtriggered by an interpretation that
the teaching is I should bedoing more.
Right.
When I'm content with. Withwhere I'm at. Right. Fundamentally,
I understand that if I'm happywhere I'm at, there's no need. And
maybe that's where myresistance comes in. Something like,
there is no need. And yet Ifeel like the teaching is, you need
(31:34):
to do more. And it's not justme, but that there's a. An underlying
message that you broadlyshould be doing more. This is.
This is interesting. So I'vebeen having the same experience,
but my path has been a littlebit different. Right. And so, as
(31:56):
I said, I've been havingconversations recently about non
doing. And the reason I'vebeen having those conversations is
because I've become morecomfortable with non doing, which
is interesting to have the twoof us having this conversation because
I'm coming from a path ofstriving to reduce suffering, and
(32:20):
you're coming from a path ofreduced suffering. And now we're
both coming to non doing inyou're only now, it sounds like only
now coming to the conflict of,oh, these teachings are saying there's
more doing, but I know there'snot. And I'm at the position of like,
(32:41):
oh, I finally understand notdoing, and it's fine. It's like.
And so. So my recent specificexperience. Did I tell you about
Spider Man?
I don't think so.
Oh, so at the beginning of themonth or at the end of November,
December, you know, beginningof December, I bought a video game.
(33:05):
So I haven't. I haven't playedVideo games in quite some time. And
Spider Man. What is it? Ithink it's whatever, it's. It's the
Spy the Spider man video game,right? Used to be on PS2 or whatever,
so I couldn't. I didn't haveaccess to. And then it came to Steam,
which is the, the PC,whatever, I don't even know about.
It's where I buy my games,right? So it came there and I've
been watching it. I'm like,oh, that's so cool. That looks like
(33:27):
a really good game. I, youknow, I'd like that. And it's been
like a couple years. I've beenseeing, seeing it and then finally
it. It like went on a bigsale. A sale that for me was big
enough, right? I don't know,Maybe I spent $30 on it and I got
it and I started playing itand I was really, really into it.
(33:50):
I mean, this. I have not beenas into a game since I got my very
first game in the 90s becauseit was, I think, the 90s that I bought
my first computer and, and Inever had like a game console as
(34:11):
a kid or anything. This islike the first time I had my own
game and I got a game whichwas unreal and boy, I was so into.
I really enjoyed it and thensaid, since, since the 90s. I like,
I played some. And there'ssome games that I've, you know, played,
but not like, not the same wayand this time. So last month I put
(34:40):
in like over 30 hours in acouple of weeks and I was just like,
wow, this is great. And I waswatching myself and I was like, am
I, you know, am I gettingsucked into desire and am I getting
(35:01):
attached to this? And I waslike, no, I'm not. This is just what
I'm doing. And it was thefirst time that I've done something
like that and not felt guiltyabout it and had the understanding
of like, no, this is what thesystem is doing right now. The system
is playing this out literally.But there was this sense of. It sounds
(35:25):
kind of sick fulfillment. Thisis like, I've always wanted this.
There's a need. This isfulfilling some need. And. And the
fact is, I fantasized aboutbeing Spider man since I was a child
in the 60s, right. I mean, itwas like. I mean, I identified with
Peter Park. Peter. PeterParker. Right. Oh, he's a geek. He's
(35:47):
bullied. You know, it's like Ireally identified with that. I have
recurring dreams about beingSpider Man. Not very often, but it's
been for years, like, very.Every once in a while, I'll, like,
have webs and I'm spinning.I'm like, I'm. I'm. Yeah, it's like,
very weird because I'm notlike a comic book geek. It's like,
(36:08):
I don't spend a lot of time,whatever, you know, I mean, I've
seen the movies, but I'm notthat much of a intense fan, per se.
And yet I do have some kind ofidentification there, and it has
some kind of significance. Andso playing this game wasn't just
like, playing the game. Itwas, like, seemed very meaningful,
(36:33):
and I was very serious aboutit as well, which I'm usually not.
Like, I was playing the gamevery differently than I would typically
play a game. It's veryrelaxed, but it was also very deliberate
and not at all like, oh, Ihave to get to the next level. In
fact, I spent a lot of timelike, oh, let me just collect all
(36:55):
the things. Like, I'm justgonna clear, like, all the. The backpacks.
I think it's just, you know,there are a bunch of different mechanics
of things you collect. And itwasn't about getting really good
at the game because I kind ofsuck at it. Like, it was funny because
I. My son watched me play andhe was like. He was ragging on me.
He's like, oh, don't. Oh, Icrashed into the wall. Help me. You
(37:18):
know, it was. It was pretty.Pretty vicious. So I'm clearly not
very good at it. But the pointis that I was watching it while I
was doing it. Like, I waswatching myself spend all this time
playing the game and like, oh,do I need to be. You know, am I.
(37:40):
Is this taking me away fromfamily time? Like, nope, no one's
looking for me. People aredoing their own thing. It's like,
there's nothing wrong with medoing this, which is weird. And so
that was my first or thebiggest, clearest example of non
doing in the system. Like, Ididn't feel like I had to. It's not
(38:02):
like, oh, I have to play thisgame right? It's like, oh, this is
what the system is doing. Thisis where the conditioning is flowing
and. And I'm not. It's like,it's not toxic and I'm not resisting.
So it was. And then after twoor three weeks, I just stopped. And
(38:25):
it's not right. I hadn'taccomplished, like, I hadn't, like,
beaten the main boss orfinished the game or. There was no
accomplishment. It was justlike, oh, I'M I'm not playing anymore.
You know, I've gone back acouple of times and it's. It's still
kind of fun, but it's not thesame. Like, I fulfilled something.
Yeah.
(38:46):
And so. Yeah. And so I've hada couple of conversations about that
and about non doing withpeople. And it's like they recognize,
like, oh, yeah, you know,you're. You're in non doing, which
is something that, you know,Jeffrey talks about a lot, right.
This loss of motivation andthis, like, it just doesn't matter.
(39:07):
So anyway, my point is that,you know, stop being out in nature.
But for me, that's what nondoing is. And for me, that was a
very special event. Like, itstands out very much in my life as
like, oh, that was a verydifferent experience to be comfortable
(39:30):
with non doing. And so I'mjust looking at our juxtaposition
there. Yeah, right.
Yeah. For the listener. I knowyou know this, but just to be clear,
like, non doing doesn't meannot active. Right. In many ways,
I've been way more productivein the past couple of months than
(39:50):
I have Right. In the two,three years prior.
It's not, it's not striving.It's not feeling like you have. You
need to get something done.
Right.
I need another break, but Ihave a bunch of questions still.
Okay, sounds good. I going toclose this episode and we can pick
this up in the next one. Thankyou all for listening and we will
(40:12):
catch you next time.
Thank you for listening to theTracking Wisdom podcast. Join us
next time as we continue thediscussion. Don't forget to follow
us on Facebook, Instagram andYouTube and visit www.eth-studio.com
for more information and content.
Views, interpretations andopinions expressed are not advice
nor official positionspresented on behalf of any organization
or institution. They are forinformational and entertainment purposes
only. Now join Ryan and Peterfor another episode of the Tracking
Wisdom Podcast.
(00:23):
All right, good morningeverybody and welcome back. I'm Ryan.
I'm Peter.
And we are back to continueour conversation that started last
episode discussion betweenMichael Lyden and author Alan Chapman.
And I had a personalobservation that came out of watching
this content and I wanted tokind of separate because while it
(00:48):
was realized or internalizedto some degree in response to to
the content, it may spawndigression and we may come back to
it. So this is something thatI am having a hard time articulating
and so I have a little bit ofapprehension about my ability to
coherently discuss this. Ithink one part to just kind of kick
(01:17):
off and I don't not 100% surehow relevant this piece is, but part
of my observation started withAlan had made a comment about practice
and the importance ofpractice, importance of continuing
practice, something to thateffect. Yes, and I have a resistance
(01:41):
to that concept. I'veexpressed this before and it's. It
is a very paradoxicalexperience because on one hand I
immediately resist theterminology and the assertion and
yet when it is then furtherdiscussed, I see where they're going.
(02:02):
Like I get the point, I getthe value and in many ways probably
actualize some of that value.And in part this touches back on
my perception that I don'thave practice, I don't engage in
practice. And as you'veidentified for me or helped me to
to see is that while it maynot be formal or organized practice,
(02:27):
there are activities. Is thisme? Sorry. There are activities that
I routinely engage in overtime that could be considered practice.
I don't know why that'srelevant. It was just part of the
observation that again, Iresisted this assertion that practice
is requirement. And I think inpart I think it sort of was a springboard
(02:52):
toward this broaderrealization. And over time I've recognized
some of of this experience amuch stronger way. Last night when
I was listening to this, andI'm going to provide disclaimer,
I guess to you and to theaudience that what I'm going to say
(03:15):
it touches directly on thework that we're doing here. And I'm
not suggesting in any way thatI want to like stop doing this work,
but it addresses sort of.
I mean, everything we say isworking stuff out, right? We don't
know what the hell we'retalking about. We're just. You're
so you're just working it out.That's fine.
(03:35):
It has to do specifically withthe reaching out and the consumption
of teachings. All theseteachings that were coming in contact
with. And it's been. There'sbeen many positive things that have
come out of this experienceand I've recognized and last night
(04:02):
it seemed to culminate in someway to the. To the point where I
felt like I needed to expressthis. I feel like sometimes it causes
regression in a way. Andregression is. Is a term that is
inappropriate for what thisactually is because there's no progress
(04:23):
or regress. But in a lot ofways the experience that I had prior
to this work, the, theorganic, uneducated, you know, just
the way I was, was moregrounded in the experience than sometimes
(04:51):
I feel like now like sometimesI feel like delving into these things
raises more question and itcreates a hesitation or otherwise
disrupts that organic naturalexperience that I have. And it's
been interesting because whilethat in and of itself could be described
(05:18):
as sort of a negative orregressive type thing, there's been
some really positive thingsthat have come out of this. Namely
putting context and vernaculararound the experience itself, I think
has been super helpful andimportant and even more so. And I've
explained, I've discussed thispreviously too. I think it was around
(05:40):
the time we first talked aboutthe finder stuff is understanding
or better understanding theexperience of other people. Because
prior to all this interactioninterface with these schools of thought
and with the people involvedin them, it expressed previously
(06:02):
that, you know, I never feltdifferent. Right. And so for me,
the natural understanding andexperience of what experience is
was that the suffering isn'tnecessary, it's not a requirement,
whatever it is. The thingsthat I observe causing people struggles,
(06:26):
the things that they call outin pain. Why is this happening or
why does this have to be? Iintuitively understand that that's
not necessary. But what Ididn't understand was the realness
and the necessity of theexperience for them in them at that
(06:46):
time, right. That. That was adisconnection. And so working with
this material has helped me tobetter understand. While it's simple,
it's not easy kind of thingthat that understanding and having
a little bit more grace aroundthe challenge many people have around
(07:08):
their own experience, ametaphor had come to mind. And I
felt like in the time this wasa really good metaphor. What I was
connecting this experiencewith. This is bringing it to a very
benign thing is self taughtguitar. The point is I feel like,
(07:33):
or this experience feels likeI had this intuitive or self taught
experience and was playingguitar and enjoying playing guitar.
And then I started readinginto theory and getting into the
mechanics of it. And it's beeninteresting to say, oh, that's why
(07:57):
I felt this way about thismusic. Or this is why this works
and having some of thatcontext. But in the process I'm playing
less guitar. And therealization to some degree is this
learning isn't important, it'sfun. And again, this is where I wanted
(08:19):
to kind of throw thatdisclaimer. I'm not suggesting that
I want to abandon this work,but it's not important to my progression,
it's not important to myguitar playing. This is how I'm feeling
about it. What I'm meant to dois not teach guitar. And this is
(08:40):
for me, there's nothing wrongwith teaching guitar. What I'm finding
alignment with is playingguitar just being my. My work here,
my purpose is theparticipation in the creation. And
this is where I think it. Wemay touch back to the video where
you're talking because when hecame, when he was talking about creation,
(09:03):
this is a very, I guess,resonant it. The idea of awakening
and the pursuit of awakeningisn't playing like it's not being.
(09:26):
There is teaching, there islearning that others can have in
observation of my being, butthat my role in this is to just be
a light to shine and to be ademonstration of the light that is
within everyone. That none ofus is more or less that that light
(09:51):
is there. Whether we shroud itand hide it, or whether we let it
shine bright. We all havethat. There's nothing to find, there's
nothing to gain, there'snothing to earn. I guess awakening
is to understand that thatlight exists within you, within us.
And then the work becomes tolift the veil, lift the shroud. And
(10:16):
I think my place is just to bea bit of a beacon that there is light.
I don't know, it's like nowit's starting to feel self aggrandizing
and stuff. And it's really notmeant to be that. But my point is
I've intellectually had and Ithink spiritually had a desire to
(10:37):
share the existence of thisessence within everybody. And the
natural conceptual way ofdoing that is to talk is to speak,
it is to teach it in that way.And what I find is that's not my
primary modality of being ableto teach. My primary. Primarily my
(11:02):
role here is just to be. Justto shine as bright as I can and and
let that be enough. I'vestruggled a little bit with. Well,
I've struggled in many wayswith this. But one way I've struggled
is. So I've experienced timeswhen I have lifted the shroud off
(11:24):
of my light and just been asun, whatever. You know, I'm trying
to use visuals here, but. Andthen there are other times when I
will bring that shroud back onand. And dose the light. There are
two primary times that I findthat happens. Number one, when I'm
(11:46):
asked. And what I mean by askis not directly asked, but through.
Through interactions withother people, I. This comes to conditioning
basically, right? Like I allowother people's conditioning to trigger
my own conditioning. And byconditioning, I'm using the metaphor
(12:07):
of bringing a. A shroud aroundthe light, the second one. So that's
something, of course, I canalways work on. And to just remember
the purpose is to shineregardless. The second, though, and
this one is a little bit moretouchy or sensitive, is that there
(12:32):
are times that that lightcauses pain and that pain is manifest
in ways like how do you. Orwhy don't I. Kinds of questions and
conversation, right? Like,it's nothing that I'm doing, but
(12:54):
the observation of the piececreates struggle and conflict within
people that I care about. Andthere are times that I will shroud
my light in order to notcreate that. And I think that's not
(13:16):
what I should be doing. Idon't think that's the best way for
me to align with what I feeldrawn to do. But it happens, you
know, and so I don't. So Iguess this is essentially the general
synopsis. I could ramble onwith more metaphor. That just probably
(13:38):
goes over the deep end at somepoint. But essentially this is what
I was coming to, is thatthere's nothing for me to do except
to be and to create and toparticipate in this and enjoy it
and show my love and enjoymentof this act of creation with everybody.
(13:58):
And I guess I'll. Before Istop, I wanted to touch. You had
a question right at the end oflast episode when you. We, but it
was in your context, arefeeling like you're touching the
infinite. Is that touching theinfinite? Or is it just a higher
level of conditioning? And Ithink that it is touching the infinite
(14:23):
because that infinite spark iswithin all of us and it's fractal.
It's been parsed out. And Ithink that as we all recognize that
essence within ourselves andthen likewise within others, the
more the defined the divinebecomes made manifest into what it
(14:45):
is. And it. Eventually we allrecognize it and therefore there
is no more division. But Idon't think that that spark is not
the infinite. Does that makesense? So I guess I'll stop there.
That's essentially what keptme up last night.
(15:09):
This is really interesting. Sothank you for sharing that. Yeah,
very interesting. And toucheson a bunch of things that I'm. It
certainly elicits a lot in meto hear you say this. I mean, I,
I think our, our process is,you know, just to share how we respond
(15:32):
to each other experience.Right. I am, I'm looking at, I'm
examining the, the shining andexisting and non doing. And I guess
I'll start with the questionwhich is, you know, about how your
(15:54):
just being affects otherpeople. The way I'm interpreting
what you're saying is thatpeople close to you can get frustrated
when you're just being andyou're not having reactivity the
way they expect you to have.Or I think you, you implied some
kind of jealousy of like, whycan't I be as relaxed?
(16:19):
Yeah.
And I'm wondering, I'm pausingbecause I'm trying to see why I'm
saying what I want to say. ButI'm just gonna put it out there because
that's what we're doing,right. It's like, it's not, I'm not
(16:39):
making judgments or, orsaying, well, I think this is what
you're, you're going through.I'm wondering if it's a very common
experience of awakening. Nondoing is kind of an essential, common
experience of awakening. Andlike what you're describing as just
(17:02):
playing guitar or just shiningor just participating, creation,
just being. Right. Is that.
Yep.
Fair. And one of the firstthings I kind of. My first responses
as you started to go throughthis was the observation of my experience
(17:28):
of periods of doing and nondoing. And I think this is, you know,
kind of what Chapman touchedon as well, is like getting stuck
in what he calls stuck. Andwe're putting air quotes because
we're having that discussionof, well, is that bad? So one way
of interpreting what you'redescribing. Let me offer that. Right.
(17:51):
And I've kind of had thisquestion. It's kind of an ongoing
question because you have thisexperience of early or permanent
or like early awakening or notremembering a non awakened time.
And so my question is, isn'tthat itself a condition? And I think
(18:14):
so. In our usage andpredominantly my usage of conditioning,
I tend to use conditioning torefer to problematic conditioning.
But it's been repeatedlypointed out to me in the PoK community
that everything isconditioning, right? And so basically
until we get out of the spacetime interface, everything's conditioning.
(18:39):
And the way that we experiencethe infinite is conditioned. We're
experiencing theunconditioned, we can touch the unconditioned,
but our experience of it isconditioned. Does that?
I think so.
Makes sense.
I think so.
I mean, I've said this before,like as long as we are incarnated
in a human brain, then we'reconstrained. And so in that sense,
(19:01):
or you know, as I saidearlier, as long as we're in space
time, we're constrained, we'reconditioned. And so what I'm saying
is that your experience ofshining and just being and all that,
that's still conditioned. Andso what I'm postulating is that you
(19:22):
find yourself in an extendedperiod of non doing that started
very early. That your path,like the way you're experiencing
awakening process is that in aspiritual sense because you either
were born with a clear senseof the awakening path or awakening
or fundamental being orwhatever you could call it, right?
(19:45):
That it became this extendedperiod of spiritual nondoing. I mean,
obviously you've had aproductive life. It's not that kind
of non doing, but there'sanother kind of non doing. And then
you reached out to me and westarted exploring in a way that neither
of us have explored before.But for you it's quite different
because I've. I was already aseeker. And so I think what I'm proposing
(20:09):
is that there's moredissonance for you. There's more
discomfort in kind of comingout of that phase of non doing and
wanting to stay, you know, andit's not, and it's not a judgment
of like, oh, but you should begrowing or oh, you should be progressing.
It's just, oh, this is justthe way you're experiencing. Like
(20:29):
this is your path has thisquality of this huge extended period
of non doing. Which doesn'tmean that's not going to change.
It doesn't mean it's not goingto evolve. But I think really there's
no way not to be attached toit if that's what's familiar to you.
Right? I mean, for a very longtime. So yeah, so I've been talking
(20:53):
to people a lot lately aboutnon doing. I mean, it's come up,
one of my friends mentioned, Ithink it's how I met her. I think
it's how I met her because shementioned non doing in, in a group
and I was like, oh, we need totalk. And. And it's actually been
(21:13):
kind of a central element ofour relationship is talking about
non doing. And I mean, nondoing means a lot of different things.
It's expressed in a lot ofdifferent ways. Like it can be a
pra. It can be part of thepractice itself. It's paradoxical,
right? The practice of nondoing. Do some non doing. But it
(21:37):
is. I mean, it is a specificform of meditation that we talk about.
And in fact, I heard theinstruction recently. I think it
was a talk. It was like, so,you know, at the end of every period
of meditation, you should tryto have a period of non doing, of
a period of just letting themeditation go and just being, because
(22:00):
that's the actual essence ofmeditation. And I think that it's
kind of like sinking in, whichis that, you know, it's something
that Jeffrey teaches, is thatwhen you. When you have fundamental
being and there are times whenyou touch it, it's important to just
sink in because that's whatwill help you to progress. And I
(22:21):
mean, guess the way I wouldexpress it is you're touching the
infinite or you're touchingthe unconditioned. And if you focus
on that experience of touchingthe unconditioned, it kind of lets
that portal open. It's likerelaxing into it. So I think. I mean,
it's interesting to me tothink of that because I've. I've.
(22:43):
Ever since you've described,you know, recognizing fundamental
well, being as being yourinherent condition, I've always had
this question, like, how do Irelate to that? Right. And how. I
mean, you've had theexperience of, like, how do I relate
from where this is, right? Andso now from. From a bigger perspective.
(23:09):
Well, from the perspective offundamental beings. Not a goal, right?
It's a characteristic ofawakening. It's a fundamental, recognizable
characteristic of theawakening path that I think Jeffrey
defines as like, it's thetransition point, right? But it's
(23:32):
not awakening.
Right.
It's a characteristic ofawakening. And this is where I think
I understand what Crowley issaying is that if you think fundamental
well, being is awakening andthat you should be trying to stay
there, then you're not seeingthe nature of awakening. It doesn't
(23:52):
mean that it's a bad choice.It's just understanding what it is.
And so I think what the wayI'm interpreting what you're saying
is really. It's a weirdinterpretation because I'm like,
listening to you. I'm like,oh, oh, your conditioning is such
(24:15):
that you're gonna stay infundamental well being like to a
larger extent than mostpeople. Right. And you're experiencing
some discomfort around findingyourself in that. Like that's the
way it is for you. Does thatmake sense? I mean, discomfort in
(24:35):
the sense that you don't likecausing pain for other people, but
it is doing that. Yeah, butthat's why what I'm saying is that.
But that's just conditioning.That's. Yeah, like, I think there's
like, in a way you have asimplified condition. You know what
I mean? Like, it's not, that'snot a multi layered.
(24:56):
It's not like, not deep either.
It's not like multi layeredtrauma where it's like, oh, there's
this, then there's that. Andthen like, oh, I just realized that
this, you know, I have to dealwith this. It's taken on face value.
Yeah, that's. I mean, becauseI, I don't, I don't know you. But
(25:17):
it would be a simplifiedcondition. Right, but what I'm saying
is that it's still a conditionand that's okay because I mean, we,
we don't judge ourconditioning, but it's the difference
between just reckoning. Oh,okay. So that's condi. It's. It does
sound paradoxical though,right? It's like, oh, my conditioning
(25:40):
is that I'm attached tofundamental well, being. Well, of
course, but I think that'skind of the same thing that Chapman
was saying and that I wastouching on. It's like, well, it's
a choice or it's. It's not.It's a choice and it's not a choice.
Right, because if you'reconditioned, then it's not a choice.
You're conditioned to make thechoice of having, as you said, like
(26:02):
having. Realizing that yourrole is. But I sense some discomfort
in the expression of that. Andso that's why I'm saying that's what
makes me kind of realize like,oh, that's the conditioning. I don't
know. There's something. Yeah,it's, it's.
I think that was helpful. Itbrought up two contemplative. Contemplative
(26:25):
questions basically pointedback at me. But I'm going to articulate
them to you and maybe we canwork through this together. I think
touching on maybe theprogression and the deepening aspect,
there's a resistance, I think,to an interpretation on my part that
(26:47):
what is being taught is that Ineed something more. And I think
this is exactly what you weretouching on and that I don't Feel
like I need anything more. I'mnot inclined. I do this work more
so because the greater part ofthe project we're doing here and
(27:11):
the work that we're doing isinteresting and aligned with my place
in creation more so than I'mfollowing this to deepen my own experience.
I think. I think that again,to touch or to. To make explicit
again, if it wasn't explicitalready, that there has been true
(27:31):
value that has come out ofdoing this sick, you know, quote,
unquote, textbook kind of workand bringing awareness and context
and vernacular to theexperience. But I don't think it
has specifically deepened theexperience, nor am I really looking
(27:52):
for it to do so. Maybe itwould. And this kind of leads to
the second contemplativequestion, which is going to the metaphor.
If we think about a trainedguitarist, they are inherently a.
They're not inherently. It ismore likely that you will become
(28:12):
a fine guitarist. A finemeaning, like a prized guitarist
with the textbookunderstanding and knowledge and fundamentals
over somebody who is onlyorganically learning this on their
own. There. There is likely tobe some level of plateau for that
person. That person being theperson who is pursuing learning guitar
(28:34):
on their own, organicallywithout the fundamentals, there's
likely some level of plateau.So the question then becomes, and
there is no right or wronghere, obviously, am I more content?
Is it more aligned with myintent and. And desire to just play
(28:56):
guitar and am I content withthe level of playing guitar that
I have? Or is there true valuein becoming a fine guitarist and
going down into. Into moredetailed fundamentals? Even though
(29:17):
it's going to take away timethat I can play guitar, it's going
to disrupt the enjoyment ofplaying guitar and that. That flow
state of being in. In theplay. But the outcome could be. It
doesn't guarantee. But theoutcome could be that I become a
better guitarist. That was anobservation. I don't know if there's
(29:39):
really an answer to thatbecause it really reflects on me,
what the hell do I want? But.
So.
But that's what I'm feeling.
So. So my. My question, it'swhat the hell? No, my. No, my immediate
question is what's asking the question.
Right. I mean, ego's askingthat question, right?
I'm gonna say the question.The nature of a question is doubt.
(29:59):
Yeah, I mean, well, notnecessarily there's curiosity. I
guess that's the question.Maybe, you know, is that a question
of doubt or is it a questionof curiosity? It sounds like a question
of doubt.
No, I would say curiosity. Butmaybe. Maybe doubt. Now, I wouldn't
say doubt.
It could be doubt. I'm not sure.
Let me ask my ego. No, because100%. Without a doubt. Without a
(30:25):
doubt, I'm content and. Andhappy being in the place that I am.
And. And that's the. That's aclear marker, right, of like, yeah,
contentment is contentment.And so why the question? I mean,
I think that's the condition.I think that's, as you said, that's
the ego. There's someconditioning there that feels like
(30:48):
it has to ask the questiondespite the contentment.
Yeah, I guess.
Right. So. Aha. So we foundsome conditioning. I mean. I mean,
I feel like that's just toobserve. Right. It's like, you know,
you're content, and yetthere's still some element of conditioning
that says, oh, well, maybe Ishouldn't be content.
(31:12):
So I think what. I think it is.
What's the choice?
The. The conditioning is beingtriggered by an interpretation that
the teaching is I should bedoing more.
Right.
When I'm content with. Withwhere I'm at. Right. Fundamentally,
I understand that if I'm happywhere I'm at, there's no need. And
maybe that's where myresistance comes in. Something like,
there is no need. And yet Ifeel like the teaching is, you need
(31:34):
to do more. And it's not justme, but that there's a. An underlying
message that you broadlyshould be doing more. This is.
This is interesting. So I'vebeen having the same experience,
but my path has been a littlebit different. Right. And so, as
(31:56):
I said, I've been havingconversations recently about non
doing. And the reason I'vebeen having those conversations is
because I've become morecomfortable with non doing, which
is interesting to have the twoof us having this conversation because
I'm coming from a path ofstriving to reduce suffering, and
(32:20):
you're coming from a path ofreduced suffering. And now we're
both coming to non doing inyou're only now, it sounds like only
now coming to the conflict of,oh, these teachings are saying there's
more doing, but I know there'snot. And I'm at the position of like,
(32:41):
oh, I finally understand notdoing, and it's fine. It's like.
And so. So my recent specificexperience. Did I tell you about
Spider Man?
I don't think so.
Oh, so at the beginning of themonth or at the end of November,
December, you know, beginningof December, I bought a video game.
(33:05):
So I haven't. I haven't playedVideo games in quite some time. And
Spider Man. What is it? Ithink it's whatever, it's. It's the
Spy the Spider man video game,right? Used to be on PS2 or whatever,
so I couldn't. I didn't haveaccess to. And then it came to Steam,
which is the, the PC,whatever, I don't even know about.
It's where I buy my games,right? So it came there and I've
been watching it. I'm like,oh, that's so cool. That looks like
(33:27):
a really good game. I, youknow, I'd like that. And it's been
like a couple years. I've beenseeing, seeing it and then finally
it. It like went on a bigsale. A sale that for me was big
enough, right? I don't know,Maybe I spent $30 on it and I got
it and I started playing itand I was really, really into it.
(33:50):
I mean, this. I have not beenas into a game since I got my very
first game in the 90s becauseit was, I think, the 90s that I bought
my first computer and, and Inever had like a game console as
(34:11):
a kid or anything. This islike the first time I had my own
game and I got a game whichwas unreal and boy, I was so into.
I really enjoyed it and thensaid, since, since the 90s. I like,
I played some. And there'ssome games that I've, you know, played,
but not like, not the same wayand this time. So last month I put
(34:40):
in like over 30 hours in acouple of weeks and I was just like,
wow, this is great. And I waswatching myself and I was like, am
I, you know, am I gettingsucked into desire and am I getting
(35:01):
attached to this? And I waslike, no, I'm not. This is just what
I'm doing. And it was thefirst time that I've done something
like that and not felt guiltyabout it and had the understanding
of like, no, this is what thesystem is doing right now. The system
is playing this out literally.But there was this sense of. It sounds
(35:25):
kind of sick fulfillment. Thisis like, I've always wanted this.
There's a need. This isfulfilling some need. And. And the
fact is, I fantasized aboutbeing Spider man since I was a child
in the 60s, right. I mean, itwas like. I mean, I identified with
Peter Park. Peter. PeterParker. Right. Oh, he's a geek. He's
(35:47):
bullied. You know, it's like Ireally identified with that. I have
recurring dreams about beingSpider Man. Not very often, but it's
been for years, like, very.Every once in a while, I'll, like,
have webs and I'm spinning.I'm like, I'm. I'm. Yeah, it's like,
very weird because I'm notlike a comic book geek. It's like,
(36:08):
I don't spend a lot of time,whatever, you know, I mean, I've
seen the movies, but I'm notthat much of a intense fan, per se.
And yet I do have some kind ofidentification there, and it has
some kind of significance. Andso playing this game wasn't just
like, playing the game. Itwas, like, seemed very meaningful,
(36:33):
and I was very serious aboutit as well, which I'm usually not.
Like, I was playing the gamevery differently than I would typically
play a game. It's veryrelaxed, but it was also very deliberate
and not at all like, oh, Ihave to get to the next level. In
fact, I spent a lot of timelike, oh, let me just collect all
(36:55):
the things. Like, I'm justgonna clear, like, all the. The backpacks.
I think it's just, you know,there are a bunch of different mechanics
of things you collect. And itwasn't about getting really good
at the game because I kind ofsuck at it. Like, it was funny because
I. My son watched me play andhe was like. He was ragging on me.
He's like, oh, don't. Oh, Icrashed into the wall. Help me. You
(37:18):
know, it was. It was pretty.Pretty vicious. So I'm clearly not
very good at it. But the pointis that I was watching it while I
was doing it. Like, I waswatching myself spend all this time
playing the game and like, oh,do I need to be. You know, am I.
(37:40):
Is this taking me away fromfamily time? Like, nope, no one's
looking for me. People aredoing their own thing. It's like,
there's nothing wrong with medoing this, which is weird. And so
that was my first or thebiggest, clearest example of non
doing in the system. Like, Ididn't feel like I had to. It's not
(38:02):
like, oh, I have to play thisgame right? It's like, oh, this is
what the system is doing. Thisis where the conditioning is flowing
and. And I'm not. It's like,it's not toxic and I'm not resisting.
So it was. And then after twoor three weeks, I just stopped. And
(38:25):
it's not right. I hadn'taccomplished, like, I hadn't, like,
beaten the main boss orfinished the game or. There was no
accomplishment. It was justlike, oh, I'M I'm not playing anymore.
You know, I've gone back acouple of times and it's. It's still
kind of fun, but it's not thesame. Like, I fulfilled something.
Yeah.
(38:46):
And so. Yeah. And so I've hada couple of conversations about that
and about non doing withpeople. And it's like they recognize,
like, oh, yeah, you know,you're. You're in non doing, which
is something that, you know,Jeffrey talks about a lot, right.
This loss of motivation andthis, like, it just doesn't matter.
(39:07):
So anyway, my point is that,you know, stop being out in nature.
But for me, that's what nondoing is. And for me, that was a
very special event. Like, itstands out very much in my life as
like, oh, that was a verydifferent experience to be comfortable
(39:30):
with non doing. And so I'mjust looking at our juxtaposition
there. Yeah, right.
Yeah. For the listener. I knowyou know this, but just to be clear,
like, non doing doesn't meannot active. Right. In many ways,
I've been way more productivein the past couple of months than
(39:50):
I have Right. In the two,three years prior.
It's not, it's not striving.It's not feeling like you have. You
need to get something done.
Right.
I need another break, but Ihave a bunch of questions still.
Okay, sounds good. I going toclose this episode and we can pick
this up in the next one. Thankyou all for listening and we will
(40:12):
catch you next time.
Thank you for listening to theTracking Wisdom podcast. Join us
next time as we continue thediscussion. Don't forget to follow
us on Facebook, Instagram andYouTube and visit www.eth-studio.com
for more information and content.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.