May 22, 2025 • 31 mins
Tracking Wisdom
Season 1 Episode 26
Unlocking Interpersonal Harmony: Exploring the SEW Technique
Recorded - 03/17/25
In this podcast episode, we delve into the S.E.W. technique, a method for enhancing interpersonal communication and resolving conflicts, as introduced by Dr. Julia B. Colwell during the Time to Rise Summit. I present a comprehensive overview of this approach, emphasizing its reliance on inarguable truths to foster understanding and mitigate defensiveness in discussions. The S.E.W. technique involves three critical components: Sensations, Emotions, and Wants, each serving to redirect conversations from blame to personal accountability and clarity of needs. By articulating sensations and emotions without casting blame, participants can cultivate a deeper connection and mutual comprehension. We explore not only the steps involved in this technique but also its implications for personal growth and relationship dynamics, advocating for its practical application in everyday interactions.
Takeaways
- The S.E.W. technique, developed by Dr. Julia B. Colwell, focuses on fostering interpersonal communication through inarguable truths.
- This method encourages individuals to express sensations, emotions, and wants in a non-judgmental manner during conflicts.
- By emphasizing personal responsibility, the S.E.W. technique helps to shift conversations from blame to understanding and connection.
- Implementing the S.E.W. technique may require practice, as identifying physical sensations can be challenging for many individuals.
- The technique promotes improved communication, clarity, and reduced misunderstandings in interpersonal relationships.
- Integrating the S.E.W. technique with active listening can enhance its effectiveness in managing conflicts.
Episode Resources
- Official Website of Tony Robbins: Personal & Business Results Coach | Tony Robbins
- Resources ~ RAIN: Recognize, Allow, Investigate, Nurture - Tara Brach
- S.E.W - Relationship Skill - Evolutionary Power Institute
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Views, interpretations andopinions expressed are not advice
nor official positionspresented on behalf of any organization
or institution. They are forinformational and entertainment purposes
only. Now join Ryan and Peterfor another episode of the Tracking
Wisdom Podcast.
Good morning, everybody.Welcome back to the Tracking Wisdom
(00:26):
Podcast. I'm Ryan.
I'm Peter.
And today we are rounding outour mini series with my takeaways
from Tony Robbins. Time toRise Summit. If you want to know
more about that and what wetalked about, we have previous three
episodes. Now, before this andtoday, I wanted to talk about an
(00:46):
interesting technique forinterrelation skills and working
through interpersonalconflict. And it's called so, which
is Sew, and it was developedby Dr. Julia Caldwell and. And this
was taught and demonstratedduring the time to Rise Summit, which
is where I was exposed to it.But it's an interesting technique
(01:09):
and I think it's worthwhile togo over and maybe give it a try in
your own work. So. So the SOtechnique is the core of. It focuses
on inarguable truths. This isthe underlying essence of how to
(01:29):
communicate and work through aconflict with somebody in a way that
doesn't escalate into pointingfingers and defensiveness. And by
using inarguable truths, itfosters a deeper connection. And
what that means is statementsabout one's own experience that can't
(01:52):
be disputed. And we'll go intowhat that looks like a little bit
more as we work through thesteps. But basically what it does
is it shifts the conversationfrom blame and finger pointing to
personal responsibility andthe essence of what each person is
experiencing and what they'relooking to achieve or what they need
(02:18):
in that moment to help moveforward. So that's the essence of
the SEW technique. Is thereanything you'd like to say before
we get into the steps?
Let's keep going.
All right, so sew, it standsfor Sensations, Emotions and wants.
So that's what the acronymstands for. And the step one is identifying
(02:42):
sensations. So if you'rehaving a conflict or you're feeling
anger, that's. This is a timeto reflect on, not what the other
person did to, in yourperception, cause these things. Because
that's where it becomesarguable that the other person can
(03:03):
refute that, but that we focuson the actual sensations that your
body is feeling in that momentthat you speak about this between
the two of you. So somethinglike, you know, I feel tightness
or warmth, things like that,that are irrefutable, these are the
things that you are feeling,those are undeniable. And there's
(03:26):
no meaning or judgment orblame that's coming in in response
to that. The second step is tothen acknowledge emotions. So we
articulate and get in tunewith the feeling feelings that our
body is sensing. And then weidentify and name the actual emotions
(03:47):
that we're feeling and linkingthose with the sensations. So for
example, emotions can be angerand sadness and frustration and,
you know, anything like that.So what this is doing is it's framing
for the other person theexperience that you are feeling in
(04:09):
that moment, but is notbringing a causation or interpreting
a blame to anybody inparticular. So this gives the other
person insight into what yourexperience is without having judgment.
And this goes both ways. Sofor example, somebody might identify,
(04:31):
you know, there could be aconflict and the first person expresses
what they're feeling and theother person can have their opportunity
to express how their, theirsensations. So it's not about what
you're feeling. That's thatkey. Because what you're feeling
starts to get into the grayarea of causation and blame. Like
(04:55):
I'm feeling like you alwaysdo, XYZ kind of thing. So it's identifying
those specific bodilysensations and, and then take turns
identifying the emotions thatyou're both feeling in that moment.
And this creates an awarenessand a connection between the two
in a non judgmental way tounderstand and have insight into
(05:19):
the experience each person ishaving in that moment. And then the
W is wants. And what thatmeans is, so it's expressing your
wants, what, which iscommunicating your desires or needs
clearly and honestly. So whatis it that you're looking to get
out of as a resolution or whatis it that you need in order to move
(05:42):
forward? And again, this is ina non judgmental, irrefutable, unarguable
way. So something factual.What's a good example of that? It'd
be like somebody wantssomebody to.
I want you to clear up the bathroom.
Sure. Right. But, butspecifics, you know, like I.
(06:03):
Want you to pick up your hairbrush.
Yes, that would be good.Something like, something along that
line.
I have immediate access.
So, you know, the, thebenefits of this, this has been,
this was developed again byDr. Julia Caldwell. She has a website,
(06:25):
we'll put it in thedescription, but she does workshops
with people. And this has beensomething that has been developed
and utilized for some time andat some point has become in partnership
with Tony Robbins, who thenalso uses this in his teachings.
But it really encourages theintrospection for both parties having
(06:50):
that introspection andunderstanding of One's own triggers
and understanding the triggersand experience of the partner. And
it doesn't have to beobviously a romantic partner, but
the secondary party. There'simproved communication here as it
promotes clarity and reducesany misunderstandings that can be
(07:13):
infused when we start to blameand finger point and start to attribute
things, facts to things thatare not factual, things that are
interpreted, but they'rerefutable. So that's the essence
of the practice. Any thoughtson that?
Yeah, it's interesting. Iimmediately kind of recognized some
(07:35):
elements. My first, my veryfirst thought was, oh, the rain practice.
Recognize, allow, investigate,nurture. Which is, well, something
we've talked about before.I've been, you know, familiar with
it for a long time, recentlytrained in more detail with it. Originally
developed by MichelleMcDonald, mindfulness teacher. And
(07:59):
over time, you know, Tara Brakhas. It's really become like one
of her hallmark teachings andshe's, she's modified it from the
original. So this is a slightinversion of that because in the
rain practice, you recognize.You start with recognizing the emotion
and then in the middle step,investigate, you are finding the
(08:20):
bodily sensations. And thenthe last step, nurture, you're addressing
what's needed. And so in thisone, you're starting with the physical
sensation and then you move tonaming the emotion. And then they
both have the finding the needat the end and addressing the need.
Now, of course, this is aninterpersonal exercise.
(08:42):
So rain is typically internal.
Rain is internal. It can bedone with a partner, but the partner
is an observer, not kind ofthe subject. Whereas it seems here,
you know, you have two peoplewho are in conflict. And so you are
each. I mean, you're sharing.It sounds like you're sharing your
internal process. You're notsaying anything about the other person.
(09:05):
You're reporting on your ownexperience, but for the purpose of
having the other personunderstand you better. Right, right.
And reduce defensive. Thepropensity for defensiveness.
Right. And so the other thingthat this reminds me of is nonviolent
communication process, whichit just reminds me of it. I can't.
(09:25):
It's hard for me to draw theparallels, but basically, I mean,
obviously it's. It's any goodinterpersonal conflict management
tool. Right. Is going to avoidaccusations, defensiveness and whatnot.
So my first question orobservation other than recognizing
(09:49):
parallels is that it can bechallenging. It can be very challenging
for some people to recognizetheir physical sensations. So I almost
feel like, oh, this isstarting to. As a more advanced practice.
So I'm wondering, you know,not having, not having Visited her
website or even taking Tony's training.
(10:10):
Right, right.
So what does he say aboutaccessing. Basically having an embodied
presence? Without an embodiedpresence, you can't do this. And
it's a fairly common thing inour society for people to be cerebral
and detached from theirphysical experience. So does the
(10:31):
Tony address that at all?
So he didn't specificallyaddress it like in that way. The
observation I had or what Iwas in contact with was a he was
teaching or. Or beginning toteach it. And what we watched was
actually a replay of adifferent seminar or whatever that
he was doing or. And itactually was presented as a couple
(10:54):
who had been there at theevent and through the day. The first
day. I don't remember thedetails of what led to this, but
essentially what. Whathappened was this woman had an affair
years before and it had beensort of this unspoken thing, like
it was never admitted, but itsounded like the husband always kind
(11:18):
of thought something may havehappened and she kind of had this
repressed guilt about it. Andwhatever had happened on the first
day when they went back totheir hotel room, she felt inclined
or compelled in some way toshare and kind of clear this air,
which obviously out of nowhereand in this event created some tension.
(11:42):
And their initial instinct wasthat they were just going to be done
with the event. They weregoing to leave that day, which is
the day that they. In questionhere that about the SEW technique.
And I don't remember the exactspecifics how they came to stay,
but they decided they wouldstay and Tony actually worked with
(12:03):
them on stage through this.And to your point, there was definitely
some muddiness around how thiswas implemented, but Tony was there
to re. Redirect. Right. Andcall out, you know, compassionately
when it didn't. It wasn'tidentifying the right thing and really
helping both parties to drilldown into the nuance and detail of
(12:28):
what the actual experience wasversus the perceived experience and
the narrative that we tellourselves about that feeling. I think
that's what you're talkingabout, right?
Yeah. So it's basically acaveat of, you know, don't think
that just because there arethree, you know, it's a three letter
acronym like, oh, I can pickthis up and I'll just do this first.
(12:50):
It's like it might bechallenging. I. So I was in contact
with rain practice for yearsbefore I was actually doing it effectively.
Right.
And I worked with partnerslater, once I had the. The hang of
it, I was working withpartners and partners were struggling
(13:11):
and it would be, you Know thekind of question of. So now we're
investigating what do youfeel? Right. Like. Well, I feel anger.
Okay, well, what do you feelin the body? What are the physical
sensations? Well, and then itwould go into stories, right. About
why you're angry. You know,like events, stories, sequence and.
(13:33):
Or it can be very hard to getout of that mode because you're engaging
with emotion. Right. Andbecause we're often habituated to
justifying our emotions ratherthan experiencing the emotion. And
so it can be. Yeah, it just,it can be very challenging to what
(13:54):
the hell are the physicalsense? I don't know what the physical
sensation is. I just know I'm angry.
Right, right, right.
I'm just really sad and I'mcrying. I don't know what the physical
sensation is. It can bedifficult to access. So I'm just
saying that don't have toohigh expectations that you're going
to go to a website andimmediately, oh, I'm going to just
(14:17):
follow the instructions and dothe thing. It may work fine. Or as
you described, it may bebetter to have a facilitator who
could say, yeah, that's notexactly what we mean. Right, right.
It's like, what's your actualphysical, like find where in your
body are you having asensation? Right. And, you know,
(14:39):
maybe do a body scan or maybehave them suggest like, is it in
your head, is in your chest,is it in your belly, is it in your
legs, your back? I mean, butjust running through a list can be
helpful. So I haven't lookedat the website yet, so I don't know
if they suggest any of these things.
I don't know that I, I haven'tinvestigated specifically. I think
(15:01):
that. So number one,absolutely, I agree with you and
that in bringing this, it's tobring awareness of the practice and
encouraging somebody if theyfind this interesting to, you know,
I know Julia Caldwell does doactivities and work with people,
so getting some facilitatedtraining and understanding around
(15:23):
it. But at the same time, Ithink that mean the, the basics of
this is not complicated.Right. It, it's the actualizing it
that becomes more difficult.And I think the more we, if we have
an intention and keep it inmind, the more we can try, even if
we're not great at it. I guessI would say I don't know that somebody
(15:45):
can make things worse bytrying this, but I agree 100%. Keep,
keep expectations reasonableabout how well you could do this
on your own with no training.But what I would recommend or, and
what I was thinking about whenyou said it. And maybe this is a
good opportunity for rain andto plug rain, which is, number one,
(16:09):
a retrospective analysis. Liketrying to do this when you're not
in a heightened state. Becausethe more we practice it, the better
we'll be. And even if you'rein a happy state or, you know, basically
trying to implement this notin the midst of a conflict, but to
try and do this kind of work,like identify your emotions and find
(16:30):
those sensations and thinkabout what it is that we really want
and practice that more when weare in our more relaxed state.
Yeah. So when we talk aboutdoing this in the midst of the conflict,
the. Then it becomes anadvanced practice. I'm like, right,
yeah. Really? Is that what, Isthat what they suggest on the, on
(16:52):
the website? I'm a littlelike, you know, they.
Say, okay, here you go. Thisis your one page, your one sheet.
Go and do it.
First of all, I was veryexcited to like, oh, how interesting.
It's kind of. I wouldn't sayit's an alternative terrain. It resembles
(17:12):
rain. It's interesting to havea tool specifically for interpersonal
work. So that's interesting.And to be able to apply for me what
I've learned from rain, to beable to use this more easily.
Right.
Or to be able to facilitatesomeone else using it. So I'm interested
(17:35):
as, as all of our listenersknow, I am like always an interpersonal
conflict. It's kind of my. Andso I'm, I'm, I'm interested in. Oh.
Huh. I wonder, you know, if. Iwonder if I could introduce this.
So here's the challenge,right. Is in as described, you have
(17:56):
to have your partner agree tothis kind of thing. Yeah. So that's
like, okay, so that's mychallenge. Like, huh, Can I introduce
this?
I mean, you could do ityourself, but of course it's not
going to have quite the sameeffect because if the other person
isn't engaging in the sameactivities. But it could, even if
(18:17):
it was one way diffuse, youknow, some of that.
Sure.
Right, sure.
I mean, if one person's not fighting.
Right.
It's a little bit better.
I also think that, you know,you made the mention of the inversion
between emotions and sense.And my guess is that there's not
(18:37):
really an importance aboutthat sequence. But that SEW was a
nicer acronym than esw. Idon't know that for sure, but I would
go. I would venture to guess that.
Well, I think that if to startwith. So let's say this is your toolbox.
This is in your toolbox forwhen you start to come into conflict
(18:58):
with your partner. And soagain, I think this is about, not
necessarily a romanticpartner, but definitely someone with
whom you have a relationship.I mean, this is a, I would say an
intimate relationship becauseyou're, you have mutuality here.
Right.
You can't do this without amutual commitment to actually do
it.
Right.
(19:19):
So I would say that'ssignificant relationship on the outset.
Yeah.
So, but given that this is inyour toolbox for conflict, so you're,
you're interacting with thisperson and you start to have conflict
and you say, okay, well, let'stry to use the SEW technique. Okay.
That means you're bothimmediately going to drop into physical
(19:41):
presence.
Sure.
Which automatically that'slike a huge step. So if you are both
doing this technique, I prettymuch guarantee it's going to have
a better, better outcome.
Yeah.
Because, but of course,conversely, that means you have to
master this first step and beable to drop into physical presence
(20:02):
in the middle of conflict. I'mlike, what the hell? I mean, this
is what I was talking about. Iwas telling Ryan before that I had
significant conflict on theweekend. I had a very bad night of
sleep. I woke up, had tried tohave like a nice conversation. I
totally flew off the handle. Iwas like, it was bad, it was bad.
My physical sensation. Oh,this is going to be interesting.
(20:24):
You know, for me to drop back,actually, I need to go home and do
some rain with this. So if youdon't know rain. Rain is often used
retroactively for difficultemotions. And the instruction is
very often, okay, we're goingto do rain now. So call up an event
where you had a strong emotionthat you want to deal with or that
(20:46):
was difficult. You know, you,you kind of want to work with it
because this is a emotion thatit's sticky for. You can't get over
it. And so now it's like, oh,well, I know what to do because I
just had this huge emotionalepisode for myself. So the question
where was I going? I guess mypoint was I know I had this very
(21:08):
intense interpersonalinteraction conflict. I don't know
how I felt. I don't know whatmy physical sensations were. Like,
I can sit down and, and re.Embody the event and come to what
my physical sensations are.But right now I can't just tell you.
And I don't feel like sinking.I don't want to go there right now.
(21:30):
Yeah. So it's interesting themore, the more I talk about this.
So technique as aninterpersonal technique. The more
I go, this is an advancedtechnique. This is not, this is not
like intro meditation.
Right.
Because it requires a partnerand it requires you both have the
ability to verbally identifyyour physical feelings of intense
(21:55):
emotion. I mean, I think bydefinition, you're going to do this
when there's an intenseconflict. So that's my only comment.
I didn't know coming in what,you know, what I knew that we were
talking about, so I didn'tknow what it was like, oh, this is
an advanced practice. I mean,it's clearly going to be valuable.
(22:15):
Yeah, but it's also clearlynot. I just don't think it's a beginner
practice.
Sure.
But I'm excited to, to look atit and to, you know, try to add it
to my toolbox.
Yeah, no, I think, I thinkthat's a valid point. I also think
that, like, rain, you couldprobably. Well, I guess it would
(22:37):
be more like a rain practiceat that point. Like I was saying
before, like calling up ahistorical event and trying to do
a, an analysis on it.
I think that's the only wayyou would learn the technique.
Exactly.
Retroactively. And plus, it'sthe only way it would be really safe
to learn it. I mean, again,you have to do it with a partner.
(22:58):
Right.
Right. So not 100%. I thinkalso you could, it's like.
Oh, let's, let's sit downtogether, open up our check, our
joint checkbook. And like,okay, now we have conflicts. You
know, there it is.
Yeah, I wouldn't recommenddoing it that way. Yeah. And obviously
(23:19):
we're not, certainly notadvocating for practicing by intentionally
creating conflict.
Remember, Remember a coupleweekends ago when we couldn't decide
on where to go for dinner andwe got kind of cranky? Yeah, let's,
let's revisit that episode,you know, or something like that.
Yeah.
Something benign conflict.Benign conflict. Not a threatening
(23:41):
conflict.
Right, right.
So, So I, I, I see that fromthe notes reference enhancing self
awareness, which tells me thatthis dovetails really nicely with
rain. I think, I think thisreally, I think rain really should
be part of this practice. Imean, clearly, you know, they don't
(24:02):
want to over complicate oreven necessarily introduce other
people's teachings whilethey're trying to teach this.
They may not even be aware of rain.
Yeah, it's possible, but yeah,I don't know. It's really common.
But I mean, especially ifyou're, because you're, you know,
she's in this arena. Yeah, butI specifically think this would go
(24:26):
really well with rain. I mean,the thing, it's almost. The more
I think about it, the more Ithink that rain is a prerequisite
to this. If you can't do rainby yourself, you probably can't do
this with a partner.
Sure.
I mean, that's my experiencebecause that was my. One of my first
exposures to embodied presencewas through rain. So that's part
(24:48):
of how I learned embodiedpresence, which is this is requiring
embodied presence. So that'swhy I'm saying that not that you
must do rain, but if youhaven't done this already, rain is
probably going to be avaluable learning tool.
Yeah.
And then the second thing isthe note says combining with active
listening, which is exactlyanalogous to why I was talking about
(25:13):
active listening is a part ofnonviolent communication. And the.
There are caveats about activelistening. Like there's, There are
pitfalls. That's not the rightword. Active listening actually kind
of got a bad rap and kind ofleaves a bad taste in some people's
mouths because it's. It'sroutinely trained without. It's routinely
(25:39):
superficially trained. Okay.And so then people practice it superficially.
And if you do that, it's moreirritating than effective.
Okay.
And so that's why I'm sayingthere's a caveat there. It's like,
make sure you understand whatactive listening is. And. And so
I would point to nonviolentcommunication. There's a book, say
(26:02):
what yout Mean, which I thinkI've mentioned before. Oren J. Soffer
is a meditation teacher whowrote that book. Actually it's an
extension of the originalwork, Nonviolent Communication, that
was developed 10 or 15 yearsprior to Oren J. Soffer coming into
contact with it. And I guesswe'll put in the notes who that person
(26:25):
is because his name slips mymind. But Orin's observation was
that mindfulness was missingfrom the 9 non. The original non
violent communication work didnot specifically cite mindfulness.
And Orin as a mindfulnessteacher who had a lot of interpersonal
conflict, by the way,apparently sounded familiar. He worked
(26:49):
through it and then heintroduced and he spoke to the Creator.
And the Creator said,absolutely, you're right, you should
write a book. Like, you shoulddevelop that idea. You should do
that. And he did. And so hedid. That's funny.
Yeah, interesting. I guessone, I guess last, unless you have
something afterwards. Butpoint is that I'm reading here that
(27:11):
the part of the purpose hereis when there's a power dynamic that
was a key element of the useof. So that it can rebalance in conflict
where there's a significantpower differential or a power dynamic
there because of thisinarguable truth that helps to kind
(27:32):
of balance the power struggle.
And I would comment on thatfrom personal experience because
I have a very aggressivecommunication style. That's what
I grew up with. Which meansthat there's already. There's a power
differential there in mypersonal interactions.
Right.
(27:53):
Because the people I interactwith generally are not as verbally
aggressive as I am. So I havethe power advantage because that's,
again, that's the way I grewup. It's like you wield verbal power.
That's how you. That's how youwork. That's, you know. So just to
(28:13):
say. Oh, yeah, this isespecially relevant for me.
Right.
In my. In. In addressing myinterpersonal conflict.
Right. What was the crucialconversations that talks about the.
The loud ones? Very. The. Thetwo ways of dealing Fight and flight.
It's not fight and flight, butyes. There's like a. Like a shutting
(28:34):
down one.
Yeah.
And an explosive one that justkind of reminded me of that.
Style's under stress, isn'tit? Right. I don't remember.
And I remember when we were, Ithink, doing crucial conversations,
but I don't know where it camefrom. It was. The facilitator at
the time was talking about it.
Yeah, I know what you'retalking about. And essentially it's
(28:57):
fight versus flight.
Right.
Response. Right, right. It's.It's the.
You're silence or violence.
Silence or violence. Verygood. Yeah. So your. Your. Your tendency
under stress. What is yourtendency under stress? Silence or
violence.
Right, so. And as you weresaying, that can create a power dynamic
in and of itself, even ifthere's not a traditional power dynamic
(29:19):
as far as like a boss andstuff like that for parent and child.
Or parent. Child. Absolutely,absolutely. So. So again, this is
a hard one to say thatanyways. You know, this obviously
was not intended in any way toteach this technique. And, you know,
(29:40):
I'm. I found it interesting.It's obviously quite aligned with
the rain technique, which I'mmore familiar with, which makes perfect
sense. And I like Peter'ssuggestion of incorporating these
two together if somebody wasso inclined to pursue it. If you
do choose to pursue it,definitely reach out or, you know,
connect with the properresources. Resources to learn this
(30:03):
technique.
Basically. Basically, you wantto focus on the inarguable. Your
own experience.
Yes.
And this is a recurring themefor us as well. Yes. Right. It's
that we're always trying tospeak from our own experience.
Yes.
Because that's where theinarguable truth is. There you go.
(30:25):
Absolutely perfect. Thank youfor that. So I hope you found this
interesting. Leave a commentif you have any input on this. And
until next time, stay open,stay curious, and keep tracking Wisdom.
Thank you for listening to theTracking Wisdom podcast. Join us
(30:46):
next time as we continue thediscussion. Don't forget to follow
us on Facebook, Instagram andYouTube, and visit www.ethdstudio.com
for more information and content.
Views, interpretations andopinions expressed are not advice
nor official positionspresented on behalf of any organization
or institution. They are forinformational and entertainment purposes
only. Now join Ryan and Peterfor another episode of the Tracking
Wisdom Podcast.
Good morning, everybody.Welcome back to the Tracking Wisdom
(00:26):
Podcast. I'm Ryan.
I'm Peter.
And today we are rounding outour mini series with my takeaways
from Tony Robbins. Time toRise Summit. If you want to know
more about that and what wetalked about, we have previous three
episodes. Now, before this andtoday, I wanted to talk about an
(00:46):
interesting technique forinterrelation skills and working
through interpersonalconflict. And it's called so, which
is Sew, and it was developedby Dr. Julia Caldwell and. And this
was taught and demonstratedduring the time to Rise Summit, which
is where I was exposed to it.But it's an interesting technique
(01:09):
and I think it's worthwhile togo over and maybe give it a try in
your own work. So. So the SOtechnique is the core of. It focuses
on inarguable truths. This isthe underlying essence of how to
(01:29):
communicate and work through aconflict with somebody in a way that
doesn't escalate into pointingfingers and defensiveness. And by
using inarguable truths, itfosters a deeper connection. And
what that means is statementsabout one's own experience that can't
(01:52):
be disputed. And we'll go intowhat that looks like a little bit
more as we work through thesteps. But basically what it does
is it shifts the conversationfrom blame and finger pointing to
personal responsibility andthe essence of what each person is
experiencing and what they'relooking to achieve or what they need
(02:18):
in that moment to help moveforward. So that's the essence of
the SEW technique. Is thereanything you'd like to say before
we get into the steps?
Let's keep going.
All right, so sew, it standsfor Sensations, Emotions and wants.
So that's what the acronymstands for. And the step one is identifying
(02:42):
sensations. So if you'rehaving a conflict or you're feeling
anger, that's. This is a timeto reflect on, not what the other
person did to, in yourperception, cause these things. Because
that's where it becomesarguable that the other person can
(03:03):
refute that, but that we focuson the actual sensations that your
body is feeling in that momentthat you speak about this between
the two of you. So somethinglike, you know, I feel tightness
or warmth, things like that,that are irrefutable, these are the
things that you are feeling,those are undeniable. And there's
(03:26):
no meaning or judgment orblame that's coming in in response
to that. The second step is tothen acknowledge emotions. So we
articulate and get in tunewith the feeling feelings that our
body is sensing. And then weidentify and name the actual emotions
(03:47):
that we're feeling and linkingthose with the sensations. So for
example, emotions can be angerand sadness and frustration and,
you know, anything like that.So what this is doing is it's framing
for the other person theexperience that you are feeling in
(04:09):
that moment, but is notbringing a causation or interpreting
a blame to anybody inparticular. So this gives the other
person insight into what yourexperience is without having judgment.
And this goes both ways. Sofor example, somebody might identify,
(04:31):
you know, there could be aconflict and the first person expresses
what they're feeling and theother person can have their opportunity
to express how their, theirsensations. So it's not about what
you're feeling. That's thatkey. Because what you're feeling
starts to get into the grayarea of causation and blame. Like
(04:55):
I'm feeling like you alwaysdo, XYZ kind of thing. So it's identifying
those specific bodilysensations and, and then take turns
identifying the emotions thatyou're both feeling in that moment.
And this creates an awarenessand a connection between the two
in a non judgmental way tounderstand and have insight into
(05:19):
the experience each person ishaving in that moment. And then the
W is wants. And what thatmeans is, so it's expressing your
wants, what, which iscommunicating your desires or needs
clearly and honestly. So whatis it that you're looking to get
out of as a resolution or whatis it that you need in order to move
(05:42):
forward? And again, this is ina non judgmental, irrefutable, unarguable
way. So something factual.What's a good example of that? It'd
be like somebody wantssomebody to.
I want you to clear up the bathroom.
Sure. Right. But, butspecifics, you know, like I.
(06:03):
Want you to pick up your hairbrush.
Yes, that would be good.Something like, something along that
line.
I have immediate access.
So, you know, the, thebenefits of this, this has been,
this was developed again byDr. Julia Caldwell. She has a website,
(06:25):
we'll put it in thedescription, but she does workshops
with people. And this has beensomething that has been developed
and utilized for some time andat some point has become in partnership
with Tony Robbins, who thenalso uses this in his teachings.
But it really encourages theintrospection for both parties having
(06:50):
that introspection andunderstanding of One's own triggers
and understanding the triggersand experience of the partner. And
it doesn't have to beobviously a romantic partner, but
the secondary party. There'simproved communication here as it
promotes clarity and reducesany misunderstandings that can be
(07:13):
infused when we start to blameand finger point and start to attribute
things, facts to things thatare not factual, things that are
interpreted, but they'rerefutable. So that's the essence
of the practice. Any thoughtson that?
Yeah, it's interesting. Iimmediately kind of recognized some
(07:35):
elements. My first, my veryfirst thought was, oh, the rain practice.
Recognize, allow, investigate,nurture. Which is, well, something
we've talked about before.I've been, you know, familiar with
it for a long time, recentlytrained in more detail with it. Originally
developed by MichelleMcDonald, mindfulness teacher. And
(07:59):
over time, you know, Tara Brakhas. It's really become like one
of her hallmark teachings andshe's, she's modified it from the
original. So this is a slightinversion of that because in the
rain practice, you recognize.You start with recognizing the emotion
and then in the middle step,investigate, you are finding the
(08:20):
bodily sensations. And thenthe last step, nurture, you're addressing
what's needed. And so in thisone, you're starting with the physical
sensation and then you move tonaming the emotion. And then they
both have the finding the needat the end and addressing the need.
Now, of course, this is aninterpersonal exercise.
(08:42):
So rain is typically internal.
Rain is internal. It can bedone with a partner, but the partner
is an observer, not kind ofthe subject. Whereas it seems here,
you know, you have two peoplewho are in conflict. And so you are
each. I mean, you're sharing.It sounds like you're sharing your
internal process. You're notsaying anything about the other person.
(09:05):
You're reporting on your ownexperience, but for the purpose of
having the other personunderstand you better. Right, right.
And reduce defensive. Thepropensity for defensiveness.
Right. And so the other thingthat this reminds me of is nonviolent
communication process, whichit just reminds me of it. I can't.
(09:25):
It's hard for me to draw theparallels, but basically, I mean,
obviously it's. It's any goodinterpersonal conflict management
tool. Right. Is going to avoidaccusations, defensiveness and whatnot.
So my first question orobservation other than recognizing
(09:49):
parallels is that it can bechallenging. It can be very challenging
for some people to recognizetheir physical sensations. So I almost
feel like, oh, this isstarting to. As a more advanced practice.
So I'm wondering, you know,not having, not having Visited her
website or even taking Tony's training.
(10:10):
Right, right.
So what does he say aboutaccessing. Basically having an embodied
presence? Without an embodiedpresence, you can't do this. And
it's a fairly common thing inour society for people to be cerebral
and detached from theirphysical experience. So does the
(10:31):
Tony address that at all?
So he didn't specificallyaddress it like in that way. The
observation I had or what Iwas in contact with was a he was
teaching or. Or beginning toteach it. And what we watched was
actually a replay of adifferent seminar or whatever that
he was doing or. And itactually was presented as a couple
(10:54):
who had been there at theevent and through the day. The first
day. I don't remember thedetails of what led to this, but
essentially what. Whathappened was this woman had an affair
years before and it had beensort of this unspoken thing, like
it was never admitted, but itsounded like the husband always kind
(11:18):
of thought something may havehappened and she kind of had this
repressed guilt about it. Andwhatever had happened on the first
day when they went back totheir hotel room, she felt inclined
or compelled in some way toshare and kind of clear this air,
which obviously out of nowhereand in this event created some tension.
(11:42):
And their initial instinct wasthat they were just going to be done
with the event. They weregoing to leave that day, which is
the day that they. In questionhere that about the SEW technique.
And I don't remember the exactspecifics how they came to stay,
but they decided they wouldstay and Tony actually worked with
(12:03):
them on stage through this.And to your point, there was definitely
some muddiness around how thiswas implemented, but Tony was there
to re. Redirect. Right. Andcall out, you know, compassionately
when it didn't. It wasn'tidentifying the right thing and really
helping both parties to drilldown into the nuance and detail of
(12:28):
what the actual experience wasversus the perceived experience and
the narrative that we tellourselves about that feeling. I think
that's what you're talkingabout, right?
Yeah. So it's basically acaveat of, you know, don't think
that just because there arethree, you know, it's a three letter
acronym like, oh, I can pickthis up and I'll just do this first.
(12:50):
It's like it might bechallenging. I. So I was in contact
with rain practice for yearsbefore I was actually doing it effectively.
Right.
And I worked with partnerslater, once I had the. The hang of
it, I was working withpartners and partners were struggling
(13:11):
and it would be, you Know thekind of question of. So now we're
investigating what do youfeel? Right. Like. Well, I feel anger.
Okay, well, what do you feelin the body? What are the physical
sensations? Well, and then itwould go into stories, right. About
why you're angry. You know,like events, stories, sequence and.
(13:33):
Or it can be very hard to getout of that mode because you're engaging
with emotion. Right. Andbecause we're often habituated to
justifying our emotions ratherthan experiencing the emotion. And
so it can be. Yeah, it just,it can be very challenging to what
(13:54):
the hell are the physicalsense? I don't know what the physical
sensation is. I just know I'm angry.
Right, right, right.
I'm just really sad and I'mcrying. I don't know what the physical
sensation is. It can bedifficult to access. So I'm just
saying that don't have toohigh expectations that you're going
to go to a website andimmediately, oh, I'm going to just
(14:17):
follow the instructions and dothe thing. It may work fine. Or as
you described, it may bebetter to have a facilitator who
could say, yeah, that's notexactly what we mean. Right, right.
It's like, what's your actualphysical, like find where in your
body are you having asensation? Right. And, you know,
(14:39):
maybe do a body scan or maybehave them suggest like, is it in
your head, is in your chest,is it in your belly, is it in your
legs, your back? I mean, butjust running through a list can be
helpful. So I haven't lookedat the website yet, so I don't know
if they suggest any of these things.
I don't know that I, I haven'tinvestigated specifically. I think
(15:01):
that. So number one,absolutely, I agree with you and
that in bringing this, it's tobring awareness of the practice and
encouraging somebody if theyfind this interesting to, you know,
I know Julia Caldwell does doactivities and work with people,
so getting some facilitatedtraining and understanding around
(15:23):
it. But at the same time, Ithink that mean the, the basics of
this is not complicated.Right. It, it's the actualizing it
that becomes more difficult.And I think the more we, if we have
an intention and keep it inmind, the more we can try, even if
we're not great at it. I guessI would say I don't know that somebody
(15:45):
can make things worse bytrying this, but I agree 100%. Keep,
keep expectations reasonableabout how well you could do this
on your own with no training.But what I would recommend or, and
what I was thinking about whenyou said it. And maybe this is a
good opportunity for rain andto plug rain, which is, number one,
(16:09):
a retrospective analysis. Liketrying to do this when you're not
in a heightened state. Becausethe more we practice it, the better
we'll be. And even if you'rein a happy state or, you know, basically
trying to implement this notin the midst of a conflict, but to
try and do this kind of work,like identify your emotions and find
(16:30):
those sensations and thinkabout what it is that we really want
and practice that more when weare in our more relaxed state.
Yeah. So when we talk aboutdoing this in the midst of the conflict,
the. Then it becomes anadvanced practice. I'm like, right,
yeah. Really? Is that what, Isthat what they suggest on the, on
(16:52):
the website? I'm a littlelike, you know, they.
Say, okay, here you go. Thisis your one page, your one sheet.
Go and do it.
First of all, I was veryexcited to like, oh, how interesting.
It's kind of. I wouldn't sayit's an alternative terrain. It resembles
(17:12):
rain. It's interesting to havea tool specifically for interpersonal
work. So that's interesting.And to be able to apply for me what
I've learned from rain, to beable to use this more easily.
Right.
Or to be able to facilitatesomeone else using it. So I'm interested
(17:35):
as, as all of our listenersknow, I am like always an interpersonal
conflict. It's kind of my. Andso I'm, I'm, I'm interested in. Oh.
Huh. I wonder, you know, if. Iwonder if I could introduce this.
So here's the challenge,right. Is in as described, you have
(17:56):
to have your partner agree tothis kind of thing. Yeah. So that's
like, okay, so that's mychallenge. Like, huh, Can I introduce
this?
I mean, you could do ityourself, but of course it's not
going to have quite the sameeffect because if the other person
isn't engaging in the sameactivities. But it could, even if
(18:17):
it was one way diffuse, youknow, some of that.
Sure.
Right, sure.
I mean, if one person's not fighting.
Right.
It's a little bit better.
I also think that, you know,you made the mention of the inversion
between emotions and sense.And my guess is that there's not
(18:37):
really an importance aboutthat sequence. But that SEW was a
nicer acronym than esw. Idon't know that for sure, but I would
go. I would venture to guess that.
Well, I think that if to startwith. So let's say this is your toolbox.
This is in your toolbox forwhen you start to come into conflict
(18:58):
with your partner. And soagain, I think this is about, not
necessarily a romanticpartner, but definitely someone with
whom you have a relationship.I mean, this is a, I would say an
intimate relationship becauseyou're, you have mutuality here.
Right.
You can't do this without amutual commitment to actually do
it.
Right.
(19:19):
So I would say that'ssignificant relationship on the outset.
Yeah.
So, but given that this is inyour toolbox for conflict, so you're,
you're interacting with thisperson and you start to have conflict
and you say, okay, well, let'stry to use the SEW technique. Okay.
That means you're bothimmediately going to drop into physical
(19:41):
presence.
Sure.
Which automatically that'slike a huge step. So if you are both
doing this technique, I prettymuch guarantee it's going to have
a better, better outcome.
Yeah.
Because, but of course,conversely, that means you have to
master this first step and beable to drop into physical presence
(20:02):
in the middle of conflict. I'mlike, what the hell? I mean, this
is what I was talking about. Iwas telling Ryan before that I had
significant conflict on theweekend. I had a very bad night of
sleep. I woke up, had tried tohave like a nice conversation. I
totally flew off the handle. Iwas like, it was bad, it was bad.
My physical sensation. Oh,this is going to be interesting.
(20:24):
You know, for me to drop back,actually, I need to go home and do
some rain with this. So if youdon't know rain. Rain is often used
retroactively for difficultemotions. And the instruction is
very often, okay, we're goingto do rain now. So call up an event
where you had a strong emotionthat you want to deal with or that
(20:46):
was difficult. You know, you,you kind of want to work with it
because this is a emotion thatit's sticky for. You can't get over
it. And so now it's like, oh,well, I know what to do because I
just had this huge emotionalepisode for myself. So the question
where was I going? I guess mypoint was I know I had this very
(21:08):
intense interpersonalinteraction conflict. I don't know
how I felt. I don't know whatmy physical sensations were. Like,
I can sit down and, and re.Embody the event and come to what
my physical sensations are.But right now I can't just tell you.
And I don't feel like sinking.I don't want to go there right now.
(21:30):
Yeah. So it's interesting themore, the more I talk about this.
So technique as aninterpersonal technique. The more
I go, this is an advancedtechnique. This is not, this is not
like intro meditation.
Right.
Because it requires a partnerand it requires you both have the
ability to verbally identifyyour physical feelings of intense
(21:55):
emotion. I mean, I think bydefinition, you're going to do this
when there's an intenseconflict. So that's my only comment.
I didn't know coming in what,you know, what I knew that we were
talking about, so I didn'tknow what it was like, oh, this is
an advanced practice. I mean,it's clearly going to be valuable.
(22:15):
Yeah, but it's also clearlynot. I just don't think it's a beginner
practice.
Sure.
But I'm excited to, to look atit and to, you know, try to add it
to my toolbox.
Yeah, no, I think, I thinkthat's a valid point. I also think
that, like, rain, you couldprobably. Well, I guess it would
(22:37):
be more like a rain practiceat that point. Like I was saying
before, like calling up ahistorical event and trying to do
a, an analysis on it.
I think that's the only wayyou would learn the technique.
Exactly.
Retroactively. And plus, it'sthe only way it would be really safe
to learn it. I mean, again,you have to do it with a partner.
(22:58):
Right.
Right. So not 100%. I thinkalso you could, it's like.
Oh, let's, let's sit downtogether, open up our check, our
joint checkbook. And like,okay, now we have conflicts. You
know, there it is.
Yeah, I wouldn't recommenddoing it that way. Yeah. And obviously
(23:19):
we're not, certainly notadvocating for practicing by intentionally
creating conflict.
Remember, Remember a coupleweekends ago when we couldn't decide
on where to go for dinner andwe got kind of cranky? Yeah, let's,
let's revisit that episode,you know, or something like that.
Yeah.
Something benign conflict.Benign conflict. Not a threatening
(23:41):
conflict.
Right, right.
So, So I, I, I see that fromthe notes reference enhancing self
awareness, which tells me thatthis dovetails really nicely with
rain. I think, I think thisreally, I think rain really should
be part of this practice. Imean, clearly, you know, they don't
(24:02):
want to over complicate oreven necessarily introduce other
people's teachings whilethey're trying to teach this.
They may not even be aware of rain.
Yeah, it's possible, but yeah,I don't know. It's really common.
But I mean, especially ifyou're, because you're, you know,
she's in this arena. Yeah, butI specifically think this would go
(24:26):
really well with rain. I mean,the thing, it's almost. The more
I think about it, the more Ithink that rain is a prerequisite
to this. If you can't do rainby yourself, you probably can't do
this with a partner.
Sure.
I mean, that's my experiencebecause that was my. One of my first
exposures to embodied presencewas through rain. So that's part
(24:48):
of how I learned embodiedpresence, which is this is requiring
embodied presence. So that'swhy I'm saying that not that you
must do rain, but if youhaven't done this already, rain is
probably going to be avaluable learning tool.
Yeah.
And then the second thing isthe note says combining with active
listening, which is exactlyanalogous to why I was talking about
(25:13):
active listening is a part ofnonviolent communication. And the.
There are caveats about activelistening. Like there's, There are
pitfalls. That's not the rightword. Active listening actually kind
of got a bad rap and kind ofleaves a bad taste in some people's
mouths because it's. It'sroutinely trained without. It's routinely
(25:39):
superficially trained. Okay.And so then people practice it superficially.
And if you do that, it's moreirritating than effective.
Okay.
And so that's why I'm sayingthere's a caveat there. It's like,
make sure you understand whatactive listening is. And. And so
I would point to nonviolentcommunication. There's a book, say
(26:02):
what yout Mean, which I thinkI've mentioned before. Oren J. Soffer
is a meditation teacher whowrote that book. Actually it's an
extension of the originalwork, Nonviolent Communication, that
was developed 10 or 15 yearsprior to Oren J. Soffer coming into
contact with it. And I guesswe'll put in the notes who that person
(26:25):
is because his name slips mymind. But Orin's observation was
that mindfulness was missingfrom the 9 non. The original non
violent communication work didnot specifically cite mindfulness.
And Orin as a mindfulnessteacher who had a lot of interpersonal
conflict, by the way,apparently sounded familiar. He worked
(26:49):
through it and then heintroduced and he spoke to the Creator.
And the Creator said,absolutely, you're right, you should
write a book. Like, you shoulddevelop that idea. You should do
that. And he did. And so hedid. That's funny.
Yeah, interesting. I guessone, I guess last, unless you have
something afterwards. Butpoint is that I'm reading here that
(27:11):
the part of the purpose hereis when there's a power dynamic that
was a key element of the useof. So that it can rebalance in conflict
where there's a significantpower differential or a power dynamic
there because of thisinarguable truth that helps to kind
(27:32):
of balance the power struggle.
And I would comment on thatfrom personal experience because
I have a very aggressivecommunication style. That's what
I grew up with. Which meansthat there's already. There's a power
differential there in mypersonal interactions.
Right.
(27:53):
Because the people I interactwith generally are not as verbally
aggressive as I am. So I havethe power advantage because that's,
again, that's the way I grewup. It's like you wield verbal power.
That's how you. That's how youwork. That's, you know. So just to
(28:13):
say. Oh, yeah, this isespecially relevant for me.
Right.
In my. In. In addressing myinterpersonal conflict.
Right. What was the crucialconversations that talks about the.
The loud ones? Very. The. Thetwo ways of dealing Fight and flight.
It's not fight and flight, butyes. There's like a. Like a shutting
(28:34):
down one.
Yeah.
And an explosive one that justkind of reminded me of that.
Style's under stress, isn'tit? Right. I don't remember.
And I remember when we were, Ithink, doing crucial conversations,
but I don't know where it camefrom. It was. The facilitator at
the time was talking about it.
Yeah, I know what you'retalking about. And essentially it's
(28:57):
fight versus flight.
Right.
Response. Right, right. It's.It's the.
You're silence or violence.
Silence or violence. Verygood. Yeah. So your. Your. Your tendency
under stress. What is yourtendency under stress? Silence or
violence.
Right, so. And as you weresaying, that can create a power dynamic
in and of itself, even ifthere's not a traditional power dynamic
(29:19):
as far as like a boss andstuff like that for parent and child.
Or parent. Child. Absolutely,absolutely. So. So again, this is
a hard one to say thatanyways. You know, this obviously
was not intended in any way toteach this technique. And, you know,
(29:40):
I'm. I found it interesting.It's obviously quite aligned with
the rain technique, which I'mmore familiar with, which makes perfect
sense. And I like Peter'ssuggestion of incorporating these
two together if somebody wasso inclined to pursue it. If you
do choose to pursue it,definitely reach out or, you know,
connect with the properresources. Resources to learn this
(30:03):
technique.
Basically. Basically, you wantto focus on the inarguable. Your
own experience.
Yes.
And this is a recurring themefor us as well. Yes. Right. It's
that we're always trying tospeak from our own experience.
Yes.
Because that's where theinarguable truth is. There you go.
(30:25):
Absolutely perfect. Thank youfor that. So I hope you found this
interesting. Leave a commentif you have any input on this. And
until next time, stay open,stay curious, and keep tracking Wisdom.
Thank you for listening to theTracking Wisdom podcast. Join us
(30:46):
next time as we continue thediscussion. Don't forget to follow
us on Facebook, Instagram andYouTube, and visit www.ethdstudio.com
for more information and content.
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