April 24, 2025 • 16 mins
Blockchain technology has evolved from a buzzword to becoming the backbone of financial infrastructure, with institutions putting serious resources into distributed ledger technologies to enhance efficiency, transparency, and ownership concepts.
In this episode of Trading Tomorrow – Navigating Trends in Capital Markets, we rewind the clock to explore how blockchain-related predictions from our earlier seasons have played out. From unexpected turns to spot-on foresight, we examine where the hype met reality—and how blockchain's accelerating influence continues to reshape financial innovation.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Trading Tomorrow Navigating Trends in
Capital Markets, the podcastwhere we deep dive into
technologies reshaping the worldof capital markets.
I'm your host, jim Jockle, aveteran of the finance industry
with a passion for thecomplexities of financial
technologies and market trends.
In each episode, we'll explorethe cutting-edge trends, tools
and strategies driving today'sfinancial landscapes and paving
(00:29):
the way for the future.
With the finance industry at apivotal point, influenced by
groundbreaking innovations, it'smore crucial than ever to
understand how thesetechnological advancements
interact with market dynamics.
Hi there, I'm Jim Jockle, hostof Trading Tomorrow navigating
(00:53):
trends in capital markets.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
And I'm Emily Drewby, the show's producer.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
For the start of the fourth season, we're taking a
moment to pause and reflect,looking back at key insights
from our first and secondseasons and where those trends
are now.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
And today we're zooming in on what's predicted
to be the biggest game changerin finance blockchain, besides
AI, of course.
Since our first season, it'sgone from being just a buzzword
to becoming a real backboneevolving far past crypto.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Well, when we started first talking about blockchain
in 2023, crypto headlines wereeverywhere Price swings, new
coins popping up instantly.
But fast forward to now, theconversation has really shifted.
Financial institutions areputting serious resources into
distributed ledger technologiesto boost efficiency, improve
transparency and even rethinkthe concept of ownership.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Right, but along with this new tech infrastructure
has also come new questions likewhat does decentralization mean
in a tightly regulated space,how do we balance privacy with
transparency, and where isblockchain headed next?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
That's what we're going to dive into in today's
episode, While it might not getas much airtime as AI blockchain
has consistently remained amajor focus for over the years.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
For our discussions.
We actually kicked things offwith Neil Chennai, operating
partner at Sandhill East, whoflagged blockchain asset
tokenization as one of the fourmajor trends to track.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, I mean I think we're headed in that direction.
Some of the sell-side firms arealready doing tokenization.
It could be bond offerings, itcould be different aspects of
the capital market structure.
I think we're going to see alot of this kind of play out in
the next couple of years.
If you know the company DigitalAsset, they just rolled out on
top of Damel, a blockchainsolution.
So there's a lot of activity inthe background going on that
(02:46):
will come more into mainstreamover the next couple of years.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Well, Neil has clearly pointed to the early
signs of a shift and thosebuilding blocks have been laid
and now we're watching thatstructure go up.
I think a couple of interestingthings that have happened in
the market is with the change inthe administration here in the
US, there's an anticipation of amuch more friendly SEC,
(03:09):
especially to blockchain, whichis also creating a little bit
more of a shift within financialinstitutions.
Regulatory barriers are comingdown as there is more regulatory
certainty, which is also nowopening up investment strategies
and suitability from the majorinstitutions.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
And we got even more perspective from Graham Moore on
where finance and blockchainare intersecting.
He's head of tokenization atthe PolyMesh Association, which
supports the growth of thePolyMesh blockchain.
Now I think this conversationfrom season two is a great
reference point and it shows howfar we've come and where the
momentum is going Like as of Q12025, platforms like Polymesh
(03:50):
Avalanche Fireblocks have helpedpush tokenized assets to over
$9 billion in on-chain value.
Now even traditional exchangesare getting involved, like
Deutsche Börse recentlyannounced.
Its D7 digital securitiesplatform has processed over
4,000 tokenized issuances sincelaunch.
Now we're clearly seeing ashift.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
The one thing I'm set on is dollar value of assets
tokenized.
I think that's when we know ifwe're successful or not.
Right now, we're in thebillions, which is good, but
still very nascent.
When you talk to anybody intraditional finance, once you
hit trillions, then that's whenpeople start caring.
That's really what happened incrypto as well, when the
(04:35):
cryptocurrency market cap hit atrillion dollars.
That's when you started to seeBlackRock really care.
That's when you started to seea lot of the traditional
financial players start toreally care.
And we're still at billions interms of tokenization of assets,
but it's getting up there andit's getting up in an
accelerated fashion.
So I mentioned BNP, sockgen, jpMorgan has their Onyx private
(04:55):
blockchain implementation fortokenization, and then also
there are a number of otherplayers that are just starting
out.
So KKR, a large fund, they'veannounced that they've tokenized
one of their funds so that theycan increase access and
availability to who can purchasethat, and so there's a ton of
stuff that's happened in thelast six months, a ton of stuff
that I will hopefully be able toannounce in the next six months
(05:17):
.
Yeah, it's really only pickingup from here, but yeah, the main
thing is what is the dollarvalue of assets tokenized
on-chain, because that's whenpeople start to really care.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Well, I think the thing that stuck with me the
most is really the billions totrillions.
It's a clear way of showing thegap between early innovation
and full-scale adoption, and thefact that we're seeing so much
activity back then justreinforces how fast this space
is moving.
But I think you know, with theinstitutional heft behind it,
(05:45):
trillions is a barrier that willbe breached very quickly.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, jim, and I think it's interesting that when
we were filming these episodesalmost two years ago, a lot of
what's now happening was stillconsidered to be in the pipeline
.
So since now it's showing upacross the financial ecosystem,
from BlackRat piloting tokenizedfund shares to HSBC launching
its digital asset custodyplatform.
Blockchain's no longer anexperiment.
(06:12):
It's becoming part of financialDNA.
The World Economic Forum evenprojected that 10% of global GDP
will be stored or transactedvia blockchain by the end of the
decade, and we're well on ourway there in 2025.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Well, you know, I think the more interesting thing
that we're going to have tostart exploring in future
episodes is really aroundquantum computing, and you know,
obviously there's so manyheadlines floating around that
quantum can disrupt any kind ofencryption, including blockchain
.
So, as we're seeing this shift,we have another emerging
(06:46):
technology that could be evenmore disruptive, as we have
other technologies that aregetting into play.
So, something for futureepisodes.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
We're going to have to find some quantum computing
experts.
If you're listening, dial it.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Another key perspective came from our chat
with the team at Broadridge.
Their take is particularlyrelevant now because it
highlights how blockchain hasshifted from speculative bet to
practical tool, especially whenit comes to capital markets
efficiency.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
And so there has been a revived interest, I would say
, actually in tokenization ofassets, real use of DLT to
improve actually processes inthe capital markets.
Speaker 6 (07:28):
Yeah, that's a really good point.
Again, kind of looking back afew years ago, everything was
about crypto.
We were waiting forinstitutions to adopt crypto in
portfolios.
We saw sort of the launch offirst ETFs and trusts and
institutional products, and weall assume that hedge funds and
(07:49):
other speculative investorswould be adopting the technology
.
Now, yeah, to Prakash's point,there's been this crypto winter,
so now the focus really hasshifted towards the technology
that's underlying them.
Well, maybe that's still coming, maybe that institutional
demand is coming.
I think most people are waitingfor some sort of regulatory
clarity, but the technology hasreally sort of surpassed the
(08:14):
coins themselves or the currentdigital currencies themselves in
terms of the attention thatthey're getting out.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
And FTX and others didn't help the argument, if you
will, but I thought it was veryinteresting specifically around
.
You know blockchain anddistributed ledger.
In the report you know youfound 27% of firms saying
they're actually increasingtheir investments into these
technologies and that's only 1%less than AI and machine
(08:40):
learning.
And I do want to get back to itbecause you know you can't have
a chat without ChatGPT.
But have you personally seen orheard how big a priority
blockchain and distributedledgers are becoming and, if so,
what are the drivers?
Speaker 5 (08:58):
I would say I do not know whether the 1% difference
is truly reflective.
I would say, if you look atbudgets right and Matt, you can
add to this right I would saythe budgets are more skewed
towards AI implementations todaythan blockchain, right and DLT.
But what has happened isactually that there have been a
(09:19):
few specific use cases actuallyof blockchain technology which
have kind of been validated andpeople have understood the true
value that when you kind ofdigitize and tokenize assets
existing assets actually rightuh, you can actually, through
smart blockchain and smartcontracts, kind of make the
(09:42):
current processes aroundtransacting and settling these
products, like repos forinstance, more efficient, right,
I think one of the key themesthat I hear across the board is
efficiency.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Whether it's blockchain, whether it's AI or
any tools that are coming out,is how we're becoming more
efficient, and it's not justabout replacing old
infrastructure and, believe youme, there's a lot of it out
there it's all aboutoptimization, and that's what
institutions are really gettingbehind.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And I mean again, it's not just theoretical
anymore, it's happening, it'sreal.
And just this year the DTCCexpanded its Project Ion
platform, which uses distributedledger technology to process
over $2 billion in dailytransactions.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
The last episode, we explored AI, but we'd be missing
a huge piece of the puzzle ifwe didn't revisit our
conversation with emerging techexpert, dr Mara Vozer, where we
dug into the intersection of AIand blockchain.
Let's roll that clip.
Speaker 7 (10:45):
Blockchain, in a sense, is everything that AI is
not.
It's transparent, it'straceable and it's immutable.
Whatever you know goes into theblockchain cannot be erased,
and AI has been called black boxand sometimes you know these
models are black box.
They are.
(11:06):
I mean, it's hard to interpretthem, hard to explain them, and
you need to explain them.
You need to explain these modelsfor two reasons.
One is that if you want to makea decision, you need to
understand why you're makingthis decision this way or that
way, why the output is like okay, do X, why should I do X?
So you need to understand that.
(11:26):
And also it helps to understandhow to evolve with this model,
because the models are notstatic.
I mean, they are updating andevolving and you know what
changes do you need to make inthe model to make it better.
So if you don't know how theoutput came out, you don't know
where to start.
So it's important to understandthis explainability and
(11:49):
interpretability, and part of itis understanding how it was
developed.
So you need to understand thecode, you need to understand the
data to trace and auditeverything, and blockchain
allows you to have thistransparency.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
That contrast, she made AI as black box versus
blockchain.
As transparent and immutable issuch a powerful way to think
about their relationship.
It makes a compelling case forwhy we need both working
together, especially as AIbecomes more integrated into
critical systems.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
And I think just in general too, jim, ai is going to
be pulled into every singleconversation, every single
technology.
I mean it's impossible at thispoint for it not to be.
And back in 2024, Dr Ozerreally laid out the blueprints
for using blockchain asasafeguard in the AI space, and
now in 2025, we're watching thatbecome a reality.
So, from tracking AI models towatermarking content, blockchain
(12:43):
is stepping in as thattechnology that makes AI
accountable, and I think it'sreally interesting in terms of
my prediction from last episodethat AI regulation would really
be the space to watch in thisupcoming year.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Well, just in the first half of this year, openai,
meta and Google partnered withblockchain-based platforms to
embed tamper-proof Providencemetadata in AI-generated content
.
The EU's Digital Service Acteven recommends blockchain as a
compliance tool for transparentAI auditing, and it's fast
becoming the digital recordkeeper for the whole age of
automation.
And, of course, we can't wrapup without talking about our
(13:17):
conversation with IgorTalianakov, ceo and co-founder
of AlphaPoint.
Speaker 8 (13:25):
As far as the audience of this podcast, though
, I would say that the mostimpactful will be the
tokenization of everything.
So you know everything fromyour car, you know and
commodities, gold we worked on aproject with the Royal Mint and
the CME group to tokenize goldand they were early for their
(13:46):
time, but we're going to see allassets, stocks, bonds, going
onto blockchains and then whatyou can do with those assets,
how you can use them forcollateral, how you can swap
them between each other, how youcan use them for collateral,
how you can swap them betweeneach other.
There's a whole new world thatopens up in financial markets.
That that's going to be hugeand going to be quite you know,
(14:09):
quite an innovation and, in someways, disruptive as well.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Well, I will say Igor's vision is bold, but it's
grounded.
It's grounded in what's alreadyunfolding.
We're seeing this wave oftokenization touch everything
stocks, bonds, real estate, youname it.
I don't think this is just atrend anymore.
It's the next evolution ofmarket infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah and Jim.
What I loved about thatconversation with Igor is how
clearly it painted the scope ofwhat's ahead.
You know, tokenization it's notjust a cool concept, it's
creating new marketopportunities, new ways to trade
, new ways to think aboutownership.
It's not just innovative, it'stransformative.
And in 2025, we're seeing thiswith fractionalized real estate
on chain, tokenized green bondstied to ESG benchmarks, and even
(14:52):
major sports teams launchingtokenized equity offerings to
fans.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Well, I think the one thing that is really clear is
how the technologies are allcoming together.
It's no longer to talk aboutcloud, it's no longer you're
talking about blockchain, it'sno longer you're talking about
AI or machine learning or agentsor whatnot.
These technologies have been ona track but have parallel many
(15:21):
ways, but that is all convergingand I think that was kind of
the grand design, and now we'rejust seeing that come to play,
which really makes tradingtomorrow a different place.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
And it makes it so important, right?
You've got to have a reallygood foundational understanding
of a lot of these technologiesso you can understand how they
intersect with each other.
And thanks for joining us as welooked back and looked forward
on this important topic.
Blockchain's integration intocapital markets isn't slowing,
it's scaling, and so is ourpodcast.
We will be kicking off ourregular season now.
(15:52):
Jim, you want to tell themabout that?
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Thanks, Emily, and if you haven't yet checked out
episode one of the miniseries,we've done a similar pulse check
on AI and capital markets.
Thank you so much for listening.
Remember, like, subscribe andshare More to the conversation,
the better conversation we canhave.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Thanks, Jim.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Thanks, Jim you.
Welcome to Trading Tomorrow Navigating Trends in
Capital Markets, the podcastwhere we deep dive into
technologies reshaping the worldof capital markets.
I'm your host, jim Jockle, aveteran of the finance industry
with a passion for thecomplexities of financial
technologies and market trends.
In each episode, we'll explorethe cutting-edge trends, tools
and strategies driving today'sfinancial landscapes and paving
(00:29):
the way for the future.
With the finance industry at apivotal point, influenced by
groundbreaking innovations, it'smore crucial than ever to
understand how thesetechnological advancements
interact with market dynamics.
Hi there, I'm Jim Jockle, hostof Trading Tomorrow navigating
(00:53):
trends in capital markets.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
And I'm Emily Drewby, the show's producer.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
For the start of the fourth season, we're taking a
moment to pause and reflect,looking back at key insights
from our first and secondseasons and where those trends
are now.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
And today we're zooming in on what's predicted
to be the biggest game changerin finance blockchain, besides
AI, of course.
Since our first season, it'sgone from being just a buzzword
to becoming a real backboneevolving far past crypto.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Well, when we started first talking about blockchain
in 2023, crypto headlines wereeverywhere Price swings, new
coins popping up instantly.
But fast forward to now, theconversation has really shifted.
Financial institutions areputting serious resources into
distributed ledger technologiesto boost efficiency, improve
transparency and even rethinkthe concept of ownership.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Right, but along with this new tech infrastructure
has also come new questions likewhat does decentralization mean
in a tightly regulated space,how do we balance privacy with
transparency, and where isblockchain headed next?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
That's what we're going to dive into in today's
episode, While it might not getas much airtime as AI blockchain
has consistently remained amajor focus for over the years.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
For our discussions.
We actually kicked things offwith Neil Chennai, operating
partner at Sandhill East, whoflagged blockchain asset
tokenization as one of the fourmajor trends to track.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, I mean I think we're headed in that direction.
Some of the sell-side firms arealready doing tokenization.
It could be bond offerings, itcould be different aspects of
the capital market structure.
I think we're going to see alot of this kind of play out in
the next couple of years.
If you know the company DigitalAsset, they just rolled out on
top of Damel, a blockchainsolution.
So there's a lot of activity inthe background going on that
(02:46):
will come more into mainstreamover the next couple of years.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Well, Neil has clearly pointed to the early
signs of a shift and thosebuilding blocks have been laid
and now we're watching thatstructure go up.
I think a couple of interestingthings that have happened in
the market is with the change inthe administration here in the
US, there's an anticipation of amuch more friendly SEC,
(03:09):
especially to blockchain, whichis also creating a little bit
more of a shift within financialinstitutions.
Regulatory barriers are comingdown as there is more regulatory
certainty, which is also nowopening up investment strategies
and suitability from the majorinstitutions.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
And we got even more perspective from Graham Moore on
where finance and blockchainare intersecting.
He's head of tokenization atthe PolyMesh Association, which
supports the growth of thePolyMesh blockchain.
Now I think this conversationfrom season two is a great
reference point and it shows howfar we've come and where the
momentum is going Like as of Q12025, platforms like Polymesh
(03:50):
Avalanche Fireblocks have helpedpush tokenized assets to over
$9 billion in on-chain value.
Now even traditional exchangesare getting involved, like
Deutsche Börse recentlyannounced.
Its D7 digital securitiesplatform has processed over
4,000 tokenized issuances sincelaunch.
Now we're clearly seeing ashift.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
The one thing I'm set on is dollar value of assets
tokenized.
I think that's when we know ifwe're successful or not.
Right now, we're in thebillions, which is good, but
still very nascent.
When you talk to anybody intraditional finance, once you
hit trillions, then that's whenpeople start caring.
That's really what happened incrypto as well, when the
(04:35):
cryptocurrency market cap hit atrillion dollars.
That's when you started to seeBlackRock really care.
That's when you started to seea lot of the traditional
financial players start toreally care.
And we're still at billions interms of tokenization of assets,
but it's getting up there andit's getting up in an
accelerated fashion.
So I mentioned BNP, sockgen, jpMorgan has their Onyx private
(04:55):
blockchain implementation fortokenization, and then also
there are a number of otherplayers that are just starting
out.
So KKR, a large fund, they'veannounced that they've tokenized
one of their funds so that theycan increase access and
availability to who can purchasethat, and so there's a ton of
stuff that's happened in thelast six months, a ton of stuff
that I will hopefully be able toannounce in the next six months
(05:17):
.
Yeah, it's really only pickingup from here, but yeah, the main
thing is what is the dollarvalue of assets tokenized
on-chain, because that's whenpeople start to really care.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Well, I think the thing that stuck with me the
most is really the billions totrillions.
It's a clear way of showing thegap between early innovation
and full-scale adoption, and thefact that we're seeing so much
activity back then justreinforces how fast this space
is moving.
But I think you know, with theinstitutional heft behind it,
(05:45):
trillions is a barrier that willbe breached very quickly.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, jim, and I think it's interesting that when
we were filming these episodesalmost two years ago, a lot of
what's now happening was stillconsidered to be in the pipeline
.
So since now it's showing upacross the financial ecosystem,
from BlackRat piloting tokenizedfund shares to HSBC launching
its digital asset custodyplatform.
Blockchain's no longer anexperiment.
(06:12):
It's becoming part of financialDNA.
The World Economic Forum evenprojected that 10% of global GDP
will be stored or transactedvia blockchain by the end of the
decade, and we're well on ourway there in 2025.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Well, you know, I think the more interesting thing
that we're going to have tostart exploring in future
episodes is really aroundquantum computing, and you know,
obviously there's so manyheadlines floating around that
quantum can disrupt any kind ofencryption, including blockchain
.
So, as we're seeing this shift,we have another emerging
(06:46):
technology that could be evenmore disruptive, as we have
other technologies that aregetting into play.
So, something for futureepisodes.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
We're going to have to find some quantum computing
experts.
If you're listening, dial it.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Another key perspective came from our chat
with the team at Broadridge.
Their take is particularlyrelevant now because it
highlights how blockchain hasshifted from speculative bet to
practical tool, especially whenit comes to capital markets
efficiency.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
And so there has been a revived interest, I would say
, actually in tokenization ofassets, real use of DLT to
improve actually processes inthe capital markets.
Speaker 6 (07:28):
Yeah, that's a really good point.
Again, kind of looking back afew years ago, everything was
about crypto.
We were waiting forinstitutions to adopt crypto in
portfolios.
We saw sort of the launch offirst ETFs and trusts and
institutional products, and weall assume that hedge funds and
(07:49):
other speculative investorswould be adopting the technology
.
Now, yeah, to Prakash's point,there's been this crypto winter,
so now the focus really hasshifted towards the technology
that's underlying them.
Well, maybe that's still coming, maybe that institutional
demand is coming.
I think most people are waitingfor some sort of regulatory
clarity, but the technology hasreally sort of surpassed the
(08:14):
coins themselves or the currentdigital currencies themselves in
terms of the attention thatthey're getting out.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
And FTX and others didn't help the argument, if you
will, but I thought it was veryinteresting specifically around
.
You know blockchain anddistributed ledger.
In the report you know youfound 27% of firms saying
they're actually increasingtheir investments into these
technologies and that's only 1%less than AI and machine
(08:40):
learning.
And I do want to get back to itbecause you know you can't have
a chat without ChatGPT.
But have you personally seen orheard how big a priority
blockchain and distributedledgers are becoming and, if so,
what are the drivers?
Speaker 5 (08:58):
I would say I do not know whether the 1% difference
is truly reflective.
I would say, if you look atbudgets right and Matt, you can
add to this right I would saythe budgets are more skewed
towards AI implementations todaythan blockchain, right and DLT.
But what has happened isactually that there have been a
(09:19):
few specific use cases actuallyof blockchain technology which
have kind of been validated andpeople have understood the true
value that when you kind ofdigitize and tokenize assets
existing assets actually rightuh, you can actually, through
smart blockchain and smartcontracts, kind of make the
(09:42):
current processes aroundtransacting and settling these
products, like repos forinstance, more efficient, right,
I think one of the key themesthat I hear across the board is
efficiency.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Whether it's blockchain, whether it's AI or
any tools that are coming out,is how we're becoming more
efficient, and it's not justabout replacing old
infrastructure and, believe youme, there's a lot of it out
there it's all aboutoptimization, and that's what
institutions are really gettingbehind.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
And I mean again, it's not just theoretical
anymore, it's happening, it'sreal.
And just this year the DTCCexpanded its Project Ion
platform, which uses distributedledger technology to process
over $2 billion in dailytransactions.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
The last episode, we explored AI, but we'd be missing
a huge piece of the puzzle ifwe didn't revisit our
conversation with emerging techexpert, dr Mara Vozer, where we
dug into the intersection of AIand blockchain.
Let's roll that clip.
Speaker 7 (10:45):
Blockchain, in a sense, is everything that AI is
not.
It's transparent, it'straceable and it's immutable.
Whatever you know goes into theblockchain cannot be erased,
and AI has been called black boxand sometimes you know these
models are black box.
They are.
(11:06):
I mean, it's hard to interpretthem, hard to explain them, and
you need to explain them.
You need to explain these modelsfor two reasons.
One is that if you want to makea decision, you need to
understand why you're makingthis decision this way or that
way, why the output is like okay, do X, why should I do X?
So you need to understand that.
(11:26):
And also it helps to understandhow to evolve with this model,
because the models are notstatic.
I mean, they are updating andevolving and you know what
changes do you need to make inthe model to make it better.
So if you don't know how theoutput came out, you don't know
where to start.
So it's important to understandthis explainability and
(11:49):
interpretability, and part of itis understanding how it was
developed.
So you need to understand thecode, you need to understand the
data to trace and auditeverything, and blockchain
allows you to have thistransparency.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
That contrast, she made AI as black box versus
blockchain.
As transparent and immutable issuch a powerful way to think
about their relationship.
It makes a compelling case forwhy we need both working
together, especially as AIbecomes more integrated into
critical systems.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
And I think just in general too, jim, ai is going to
be pulled into every singleconversation, every single
technology.
I mean it's impossible at thispoint for it not to be.
And back in 2024, Dr Ozerreally laid out the blueprints
for using blockchain asasafeguard in the AI space, and
now in 2025, we're watching thatbecome a reality.
So, from tracking AI models towatermarking content, blockchain
(12:43):
is stepping in as thattechnology that makes AI
accountable, and I think it'sreally interesting in terms of
my prediction from last episodethat AI regulation would really
be the space to watch in thisupcoming year.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Well, just in the first half of this year, openai,
meta and Google partnered withblockchain-based platforms to
embed tamper-proof Providencemetadata in AI-generated content
.
The EU's Digital Service Acteven recommends blockchain as a
compliance tool for transparentAI auditing, and it's fast
becoming the digital recordkeeper for the whole age of
automation.
And, of course, we can't wrapup without talking about our
(13:17):
conversation with IgorTalianakov, ceo and co-founder
of AlphaPoint.
Speaker 8 (13:25):
As far as the audience of this podcast, though
, I would say that the mostimpactful will be the
tokenization of everything.
So you know everything fromyour car, you know and
commodities, gold we worked on aproject with the Royal Mint and
the CME group to tokenize goldand they were early for their
(13:46):
time, but we're going to see allassets, stocks, bonds, going
onto blockchains and then whatyou can do with those assets,
how you can use them forcollateral, how you can swap
them between each other, how youcan use them for collateral,
how you can swap them betweeneach other.
There's a whole new world thatopens up in financial markets.
That that's going to be hugeand going to be quite you know,
(14:09):
quite an innovation and, in someways, disruptive as well.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Well, I will say Igor's vision is bold, but it's
grounded.
It's grounded in what's alreadyunfolding.
We're seeing this wave oftokenization touch everything
stocks, bonds, real estate, youname it.
I don't think this is just atrend anymore.
It's the next evolution ofmarket infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah and Jim.
What I loved about thatconversation with Igor is how
clearly it painted the scope ofwhat's ahead.
You know, tokenization it's notjust a cool concept, it's
creating new marketopportunities, new ways to trade
, new ways to think aboutownership.
It's not just innovative, it'stransformative.
And in 2025, we're seeing thiswith fractionalized real estate
on chain, tokenized green bondstied to ESG benchmarks, and even
(14:52):
major sports teams launchingtokenized equity offerings to
fans.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Well, I think the one thing that is really clear is
how the technologies are allcoming together.
It's no longer to talk aboutcloud, it's no longer you're
talking about blockchain, it'sno longer you're talking about
AI or machine learning or agentsor whatnot.
These technologies have been ona track but have parallel many
(15:21):
ways, but that is all convergingand I think that was kind of
the grand design, and now we'rejust seeing that come to play,
which really makes tradingtomorrow a different place.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
And it makes it so important, right?
You've got to have a reallygood foundational understanding
of a lot of these technologiesso you can understand how they
intersect with each other.
And thanks for joining us as welooked back and looked forward
on this important topic.
Blockchain's integration intocapital markets isn't slowing,
it's scaling, and so is ourpodcast.
We will be kicking off ourregular season now.
(15:52):
Jim, you want to tell themabout that?
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Thanks, Emily, and if you haven't yet checked out
episode one of the miniseries,we've done a similar pulse check
on AI and capital markets.
Thank you so much for listening.
Remember, like, subscribe andshare More to the conversation,
the better conversation we canhave.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Thanks, Jim.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Thanks, Jim you.
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