April 19, 2024 • 35 mins
Anatolii Ulitovskyi is a digital marketer with over 12 years of experience, a seasoned entrepreneur, and an SEO wizard. He ventured into the online business realm in 2008 with an electronic gadget shop in Ukraine in partnership with his brothers. He then quickly realized that paid advertisements weren’t enough in the rapidly evolving online market, which propelled him into the world of SEO. In this episode, Anatolii discusses how the changing world of technology is impacting digital marketing and shares tips for online business owners.
Listen in to learn how to succeed in digital marketing by spending more time learning product and customers, creating the right content plan, and finding people to help you implement all your ideas. You will also learn the importance of focusing on your strong side as a content creator and being patient instead of chasing best practices.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker A (00:06):
What are you doing to adapt your online business to the fast changing world of
SEO and digital marketing?Anatoly, an SEO expert, explains why adapting
to technology and AI means creating tools toimprove your SEO, build brand awareness, and
get ahead of the competition.
(00:26):
Welcome.
I'm Nan McKay, the voice behind Trailblazersimpact, your beacon to extraordinary women
trailblazing unique paths.
Our podcast spotlights luminaries whose life
stories inspire and empower delivered to yourears bi weekly.
Buckle up for another episode packed withpowerful narratives and empowering journeys on
(00:49):
trailblazers impact.
Stay with us.
Speaker B (00:53):
Welcome to our latest episode where we are thrilled to have Anatoly Ulitofsky join
us.
He's a seasoned entrepreneur and he's also an
SEO wizard.
Anatoly's journey is a remarkable tale of
resilience, innovation and strategic thinkingin the digital world.
(01:16):
Starting in 2008, he ventured into the onlinebusiness realm with an electronic gadget shop
in Ukraine developed in partnership with hisbrothers.
Despite its initial success, Anatoly quicklyrealized that paid advertisements weren't
(01:37):
enough in the rapidly evolving online market.
And this realization propelled him into the
world of SEO, where after overcomingchallenges with marketing agencies and
adapting to major Google algorithm updates, henot only boosted his business, but also
(02:00):
mastered the art of online visibility.
So today, Anatoly stands as a beacon in the
SEO industry, leading his own SEO consultingagency on Miss, his podcasting and blogging,
and continuously exploring new creative waysto enhance online presence for various
(02:26):
businesses.
His story is not just about adapting to
change, but thriving in it, making him a go toexpert for anyone looking to understand the
power and the potential of SEO in today'sdigital landscape.
So let's dive into his insights, experiencesand uncover how he navigates complex and
(02:54):
competitive the world of online marketing.
So welcome Anatoly.
Speaker C (03:03):
Hi, how are you? Yeah, thanks a lot for this invitation.
It means a lot for me.
I never thought that I'm so good like you
mentioned about me, because I'm student onthis life, I keep learning.
I made a lot of mistakes, keep doing them.
It's part of my process to learn, to keep
going ahead.
And one more thing, I love what I do.
(03:25):
I can fail, but I never stop because of lovingis my passion.
It's not about SEO.
I like to get organic reach, I like to get
traffic, I like to find new ways how to goahead.
I'm not special, I'm just student who wannachange the world.
Speaker B (03:43):
Well, that's all about being what an expert is.
You know, as an expert, you have to never stoplearning because things keep changing, right?
Speaker C (03:52):
Of course, yeah.
Digital marketing, SEO, I think it's quickly
changing wealth.
And I compare data with other niches.
For example, when AI build, probably, I don'twant to say a hundred percent, but it's close
to this number of marketers adopted to AI.
(04:12):
According to data adopted strongly.
The rest are looking for ways how to do itbetter.
And I, compared with other niches likeaccounting, people don't use AI, ignore this
tool.
I think it's a big mistake because we don't
know what we'll bring next.
(04:34):
AI calculations are great.
Probably today they can't help a lot inaccounting, but definitely in the future we
will see this switch and changes as well.
And in digital marketing, it's very important
to adapt fast.
You know, I'm on the second stage.
I can't create new chat GPT, I can't createMicrosoft Google, but I can be in the second
(04:58):
stage when all these innovations are coming,we need to adapt fast.
Because in digital marketing, if somethingworks today, doesn't mean you can get results
tomorrow.
You need to move fast.
You need to think fast to adapt fast, thenresults will come.
Speaker B (05:14):
I totally agree with you.
When we look back, a lot of people are kind of
afraid of AI and chat GPT.
But the reality is if we look at the Internet
as an example, people felt that way in thevery beginning of the Internet, oh my, steal
my data.
Or, oh, and of course that's partially true.
Good.
(05:34):
But on the other hand, the benefits outweigh
it.
And everybody's on the Internet, so I think
it's going to be the same thing.
We just have to use it judiciously.
But for content creation, it is amazing.
Speaker C (05:49):
Yeah, I think we still have time before terminators will kill all human beings.
Because today, you know, because today AI canhelp a lot marketers.
AI, it's a must have tool.
When Cha PT appealed, I grew my results a lot.
(06:11):
And I disagree when someone can tell Googlehates AI.
No, Google loves AI.
If you use it smart, if you can use this tool
to create high quality content.
We grew some projects from zero to plus 2000
people a day in a very competitive niche withAI content.
(06:33):
It's not because we can game this.
I don't know how to game the system, but I
know how to create high quality content withAI.
So if you can do it, then results will come.
If you can't, then you need to understand that
someone can replace your AI tools can'treplace you, but someone who can adapt to AI
(06:53):
tool, they will replace you.
If you don't move fast.
So for me it's a new journey.
And today it's the best time, the best time to
adapt to AI.
When Internet appeal, that was the first best
time.
Today it's the second.
So any new technologies like Facebook, TikTok,when they pull, people have time to adapt
(07:14):
fast, to move forward.
Then it's much simpler to compete with others.
Today you have this time, we still have a lotof time, a lot of opportunities to adapt to
AI, to create high quality content, to getgreat results.
Just think how you can do it.
It's not like for you can do it for a few
(07:34):
days.
It takes time, you know, to craft, to play, to
fail.
I can't say how many times I fail.
When I decided to write press releases, I useAI and I failed with all my press releases, I
pitched all of them.
I wrote a bunch of press releases.
Today we got mentions on CNN, Bloomberg,Business Insider, Investing.com, big websites,
(07:59):
popular website.
Because of failing, we failed.
But from the way how to do it better.
Speaker B (08:06):
Yeah, I totally agree with you.
Let's go back and reflect a little bit on your
journey.
How have do you think effective SEO strategies
directly benefited your online business?And the second question that you might segue
into is what was the most significant changethat you noticed after implementing the
(08:31):
strategy?
Speaker C (08:32):
I think SEO strategy takes time and it's very important to spend this time to
collect data, to analyze, to think aboutcustomers, even more about your products.
Because most marketing guides tell you need toknow your audience.
(08:53):
Of course you need, but you need to understandproduct first.
For example, when I decided to promote onlinegames, the first thing what I did, I played
these games.
I played a few days on these games.
And when my son phoned me and asked, what'sgoing on?
You told me I need to read books.
But you play online games and disallow me.
(09:16):
No, no, no, I replied to him, you know,someone paid me sixteen k to play these games.
What?Sixteen k?
I play a lot more, have extended experiencethan you, but nobody pays me to play this
game.
But it's another story.
Someone paid me to learn the product, tounderstand how to market the product.
(09:36):
So I played when I got experience, why peoplecan play these games, how they can reload
their mind, to spend time, to enjoy theprocess.
I started to learn about buying Persona, aboutcustomers, users.
I collected data.
Then when I know the product, when I know
about target audience, I can craft thestrategy and it's very important to do it
(10:02):
right because I see when some projects canearn a lot of traffic good traffic but can't
sell products.
And I spoke with one master who lost 400,000
traffic, a lot of traffic.
He spent so much resources time to get this
traffic, but he can't monetize this traffic.
And for me, it's more important to get traffic
(10:25):
value, to get traffic that covers buyingPersona.
And when you find topics that you can takeyour sales funnel, buying Persona, their
journey, then you can go ahead to choosepriorities.
Because priorities are key.
(10:46):
And I see when projects create a plan with
100,000 keywords and they don't know what tocreate, even bigger companies have limited
resources.
I usually spend time to choose topics one by
one that we can where we can create greatcontent.
(11:07):
If I can't feel that we can create greatcontent, we skip them.
We can find other topics.
If I see that my competitors have great
content, why I need to compete with them.
Okay, you have it.
I can leave because I can find other topics.
It's important to create content plan where
you can provide something new, valuable, muchbetter content then to cover with your brand
(11:29):
Persona, to submit this call to action andthink more about quality than quantity.
I like quantity as well.
Let me explain why.
Because it's tough to create quality withouthaving experience with quantity.
That is why I write a lot.
I love writing.
I write plus thousand words a day because Iwant to craft the skill.
(11:53):
I want to get great results.
And if you want to win in SEO game, you need
to create high quality, super high qualitycontent for your blog, for your website, and
crafting your skills on social media.
Because on social media, some posts can die
for a few hours, a few days and nobody caresabout them.
But you need to write to think about yourtarget audience, to bring value on social
(12:17):
media and get more experience with writing.
Even today when content creators use chat, GPT
and any other AI tools, if you don't know howto write, if you have no these skills, you can
create great content.
You need to know the topic, you need to know
how to write and the best results are comingfrom someone who have this experience to
(12:40):
write.
So I write a lot.
I recommend to all my clients to write.
Then when you have the skills, when you know
where you can bring a lot more value, you cancreate the right content.
Plan to schedule some posts when they willcome and something like this.
(13:00):
And think about other metrics likecompetition, about sales, how many sales you
can get from specific boss, how you canprovide something new, valuable.
Because it's not only to create one more pieceof content.
You need to stand out from the rest.
(13:21):
It's very important in digital marketing.
So I recommend to anyone if you want to wintoday in digital marketing, spend more time to
learn product, to learn customers, to createthe right content plan and find people who can
help you to implement all your ideas.
Speaker B (13:41):
Well, I think every business owner wants to increase website traffic.
What initial actions do you think they shouldconsider?
Speaker C (13:53):
I think initial actions, it depends on the project.
I can't say that we have one template thatworks for anybody else.
I usually start to learn competitors.
I usually start to check what actually works
for them.
Then when I have a list of ideas, think about
(14:18):
my strong side.
For example, let's imagine you are good
writer.
Why you need to film short videos for TikTok
if it's not your strong side?If you good with filming, then film.
Forget about writing.
I know some projects have no SEO traffic, but
(14:40):
they are good with YouTube, TikTok to getsales from these channels.
If you can hire someone who can decide theseproblems, then yeah, use them.
So first you need to think about your strongside, then to analyze weak side of your
competitors.
If you see that you are much better than your
(15:01):
competitors, jump.
If you can't skip it, you don't need to create
one more piece of content.
It's like to write a new book.
When we have plus thousand books, I often askmy friends about new movies and the most
common reply, nothing special.
I watch many similar movies with the same
(15:23):
plot.
Who cares to watch one more movie?
We want to watch something new.
It's the same with digital marketing.
If you can't skip it.
But if you can, then think, can you do it
better?And think about your strong side.
So when you know strong side, when you knowcompetitors know your customers, results will
come.
(15:43):
Just be patient and go ahead, step by step.
Speaker B (15:47):
Can you share an example of how maybe a creative and a non standard SEO
approach significantly boosted a website'straffic?
Maybe their overall online presence?
Speaker C (16:02):
Yeah, my last example about trading news and when I got this client, it's like
three years ago, he gave me website with abunch of filters.
And even when I checked this website, I gotthe feeling I can't help this project.
(16:26):
It's better to create a new one.
Forget about this website because everything
was terrible.
Black hat SEO, obsolete content written for
search engines.
Nothing special, but we got good budget, good
money.
So we started to rebuild everything from
(16:47):
scratch to update content.
We spent time to find great people who can
write for Forbes, Bloomberg, big websites.
We hired them to rewrite all this content.
We changed, uh, link building.
We changed PR we got great mentions, links, we
created a bunch of tools.
(17:07):
But what I did, I didn't listen to advice from
my customer.
He told me, okay, let's check these
competitors, analyze them.
We need to do the same.
I replied to him, no, no, we don't need to doit.
Let me explain why.
Because your competitors do what you did
(17:28):
before, you got punishment first Google phoneand filter your website.
Your competitors, I don't know, probablyGoogle will take them, catch them, I don't
know.
Or they will work.
But they can grow fast.
Today, after three years, this website is
(17:50):
growing.
We got a lot of great traffic, big traffic.
We have many new goals to grow this traffic.
But competitors are decreasing.
All competitors are decreasing because ofusing obsolete strategies.
Of course the strategies work, that workswell.
But as we started this podcast that digitalmarketing is a quickly changing world.
(18:15):
We need to adapt fast.
We need to go ahead so we change all
approaches.
And we were a patient, patient with results.
So nobody works overnight.
Even a few months are not enough.
It's not like six months, you can get results.
No, it takes years.
I spoke with Lily Ray on my podcast and shereplied to me, some projects take a few years
(18:40):
to see first meaningful results.
Because many competitors, many websites wanna
get this traffic.
Of course we can find much faster way, but it
doesn't mean that we can game the system andto get results fast.
It takes time to craft the process, to hireright people.
(19:00):
And in my agency I usually find people, Ireach out to them.
I don't use support I used before.
But right now we reaching out directly to
great offers.
We created the process of PR link building and
that is why we are growing.
So I recommend to anyone, forget about best
(19:22):
practices.
You can learn best practices, but if you feel
that best practices are related to your strongsign, do it.
If it's not, forget you know.
Yes.
Self Gordon doesn't film short videos onTikTok.
Stephen King ignores TikTok, but he's goodwith writing.
(19:45):
He can write great pieces of content.
So great books.
You need to do similar.
Just think about your strong side, about your
passion, even more about passion.
If you love something but have no strong side,
then be consistent and results will come.
You can build a strong side.
Just love the process if you hate it.
(20:07):
Many content creators give up so fast.
They give up because they don't see results.
I have no idea how to do it fast.
Speaker B (20:15):
So answer is just be patient.
Speaker C (20:18):
Yeah, be patient and love what you.
Speaker B (20:20):
Do and love what you're doing in managing your SEO agency.
How do you tailor those SEO strategies todiverse clients to ensure that they achieve
noticeable improvements in web traffic andonline visibility.
Speaker C (20:37):
I think even biggest agency can't hire all best experts.
So I remember in 2008, we hired a team ofwriters who wrote about anything.
I gave them topics, all topics, anything.
Weight loss, finance, accounting, anything
(20:58):
they wrote, Google Rank, then Google updatedalgorithms many times.
And today we are looking for experts who, whoknow the topic, who can write only about one
specific topic.
So Google fired all this team.
Okay, I fired this team.
But Google helped me to fire people who can
write about anything.
(21:19):
And today I outsource writers who write for
big publications.
And even, let's imagine when I paid for pr,
$6,000 for one press release.
And I found all these PR agencies charge good
money for one press release.
(21:40):
And what they usually did, they write
themselves.
Even today they understand journalists.
They understand what people are looking forand can write press releases.
But they are not experts on these topics.
They far away from that.
So what we change.
I paid for a while this money.
And then when I got it, I need twelve pressreleases to satisfy intent of my customers.
(22:05):
A week, it's like more than seventy k a week.
And if we account for a year, it's $3,700,000.
It's a lot.
So. And I got it.
It's tough to pay this money.
It's really hard.
Then we phone experts who can write for bigpublications.
(22:28):
They usually write for our blog and I explainthem how we can write press releases.
I showed the process, we failed many times.
But today when we got mentions on CNN,
Bloomberg, we got it.
Wow, we changed the game.
It's another experience.
So can I allow these people on my team?
(22:50):
No, I can't because they work on Forbes, theywork on big publications, but I can outsource
them.
It's like ghost writing, you know, people are
looking for passive income.
You can find these people to agree fix price.
You can learn how tools work and create theprocess.
(23:11):
If you got much better results than if we pay6000 per person, much better results.
We checked and we analyzed PR agency who canwrite this press release.
They're not experts, but we get results fromexperts.
You just need to teach them what kind of pressreleases to write, why journalists can post
(23:34):
those press releases, and how to pitch allthese press releases, right?
So my advice for anyone learn, think, can youdo it differently?
Then results will come.
Speaker B (23:48):
Okay. Given the intense competition in the online space, what key advice would you
give to businesses about the benefits of SEOand how to leverage these strategies to stand
out in what's a saturated market?
Speaker C (24:07):
Yeah. Okay, about this market.
Extremely competitive, market saturated,
overwhelmed.
I want to say you need to switch your
attention or start to switch your attentionfrom writing blog posts.
Let me explain why.
In 2008, we created ecommerce content that was
(24:29):
simple to game the system.
Google didn't recognize user intent that
Google can do it today.
Today, blogs get more traffic than any other
channel.
56% of all traffic are coming to blog.
That is why all websites have blocks.
I think it's a good idea to start blogging
(24:51):
content.
But the first thing, it's extremely
competitive today.
Plus, 7 million blog posts appeal every single
day.
You need to create blog posts and you have no
idea.
Can you get results or not even big websites
can get results with blog content.
Neil Patel shared that most of his blog
(25:13):
content don't get traffic.
Yes, he got a lot of traffic he gets, but most
of content are dying.
If new puzzle can't, let's imagine about
others.
You know, it's.
It's really tough.
The second I'm not sure about the future of
block content.
You know, when the feature snippet appealed on
Google, many content creators complain thatGoogle can steal our traffic.
(25:37):
What about today?When chatbots can still rewrite your content
and even without linking to you, Google atleast linked to our content.
And when someone can tell that SEO will neverbe dead?
I'm not sure about that.
I think everything has the end, including SEO.
(26:02):
And here are two reasons.
Today, when chat GPT appealed, 12% of people
use chatbots to search for information,including me.
I speak with chatbots more often than with mywife.
I love my wife, but.
Yeah, but I can ask a lot of great questions
on chat GPT, and 12% of people can do it.
(26:27):
When I search something that it's tough to
find on Google, I still have these questions.
Like for example, I decided to open new
business in Florida.
I needed a list of documents.
I asked this question on Google and I got alot of information about business.
Why it's important to open business.
What is the difference in for it?
I don't need it.
(26:48):
You know, of course it's valuable, it's
helpful for someone, but I don't need it.
I needed a list of documents.
That's it.
So chat GPT gave me answer for a few seconds.
Yeah.
Yes, the same with Bart.
I asked about can I use self drivers featureon Tesla?
(27:08):
And Bart gave me answer for a few seconds onGoogle.
If you ask this question, you can get a lot ofinformation about Tesla, about electrical
cars.
Why it's important for our environment.
Of course it's important.
I don't deny it, but I don't need it, you
know, I don't need this information.
So I think it's only beginning of chatbots
(27:31):
evolution.
More and more people will ask questions on
chatbots.
The main problem with chatbots, they don't
link to our content.
So they can rephrase, rewrite, provide
information.
And that is why I think we need to move fast.
It doesn't matter that blue content will die.
(27:56):
New York Times, Forbes were created before
digital.
They adapted to digital, they adapt to any
other environment.
So today, it's important to have strong brand
recognition, to build brand awareness whenpeople open your blogs and wanna read you.
So to get direct traffic.
The second SEO doesn't teach us how to rank on
(28:21):
Google, of course SEO can teach about that.
But SEO teaches how to create high quality
content, how to earn authoritative, relevantbacklinks.
It's not only about to get ranking positions,it's more about to create brand awareness.
If I get mentioned on CNN, Forbes, it doesn'tmean that it's only for SEO.
(28:43):
It can help to build my recognition, my brand,so you can use insights that SEO teaches us
and to switch attention to write less blogcontent.
Even if it works today, probably if you can doit today, if you're great with that, probably
(29:07):
you don't need.
But if you start a new website, it will be
tough to win this game.
So I recommend to switch attention to create
simple tools.
Simple tools like calculators, converters,
like any other tools, you can find a bunch oftools and we have great results.
(29:30):
With tools, it's not competitive, it's nottough.
People, content creators usually craft blogcontent, but they ignore tools.
And on this niche, you can still get a lot oftraffic.
Chat bots are not ready to replace toolstoday.
(29:50):
What you can do with tools differently, forexample, you can find a calculator.
Let's imagine, I don't know how to lose weightcalculator.
Yes.
So you can use how many calories to eat a day.
You can consider your age, sex, everything.
Yeah.
And you can find tools that get milliontraffic.
(30:14):
If you adapt to AI, it's simple.
Just go to chat GPT and ask, okay, I want to
create this tool, but I want to createsomething better.
Chat GPT or bar can listen updates that youcan make much better.
Then you can unite and connect Appian andcreate much better tools or any other tools
(30:42):
are not ready to replace such tools with userfriendly interface.
SEO brings a lot of traffic to tools.
So if you wanna think about the future, you
need to understand today, jump to tools, youcan get great results.
And I do it.
I get a lot of traffic to tools.
(31:02):
We create simple tools, we submit our call toaction.
We grew a few projects in very competitiveniche for a year.
If I do it with blog content, we still useblog content, but most traffic are coming to
tools because it's not competitive.
You still have room for that.
Speaker B (31:21):
Now that's really interesting.
I'm looking for a tool and I'm thinking to
myself, I wonder if I put that I want a toolthat creates simplistic games related to
courses that I put up.
Have you ever seen anything like that?
Speaker C (31:42):
Yeah. Yeah. Because I help with creating online games and if you want to unite
with specific projects, yeah, it's possible.
It's not tough to do it.
Speaker B (31:54):
So if somebody wants to do something, whether it's SEO and build a new
website, go back to their, as you said, goback to their buyer Persona, create that and
start all over again.
How can people contact you and what would you
suggest?Just promote yourself a little bit.
Speaker C (32:16):
Yeah, I want to help you with your tool about gaming.
So the right way?Yeah, to show the right way.
If you want to create a game, you can usewebsite unity.com.
It's popular website where you can find a lotof templates with sounds design customizable
(32:40):
to any tools.
Then when you find great asset, you can ask
people on upwork to develop this tool for you.
And it doesn't cost a lot of money.
It's not expensive, crazy money.
So you can do it probably for a few thousand
dollars.
You can create great game and show to your
(33:04):
customers, users even to get aco traffic.
Just use unity.
We have another website.
What is that?
Quote quote kenyan I can send the link canyonyeah.com let me write to you.
Speaker B (33:24):
Well that's okay, I'll get it after people can, but how can they contact you?
Speaker C (33:31):
Yeah, the best way to contact me to reach out on LinkedIn.
But please add the message I ignore.
When someone reaches out to me without the
message, if I see the template on thismessage, I still ignore.
But if you write personalized message then Iwill reply 100%.
(33:55):
You can reach out to me on my websiteunmist.com.
So to ask anything that I can help you to leadin the right direction.
So I'm open with that.
I'm active but super busy so be patient if I
can't reply immediately.
Speaker B (34:11):
So UnMISS unmiSs.com and contact you on LinkedIn and maybe just say from Nan's
podcast or something like that so that, youknow, they're legitimate.
(34:32):
Whatever.
Well, thank you so much for all your time and
appreciate everything that you've done to giveus some good advice and bring us up to date
with what's really happening.
Speaker C (34:44):
Yeah, a big pleasure.
Thanks a lot for inviting me, for asking all
these great questions.
It means a lot for me.
I love to share value.
I love to help others.
So if you wanna invite one more time, I willbring more value.
Guys, ask me any questions.
Simple, stupid, smart, I don't care.
(35:04):
Ask anything.
I will reply to all of them.
Thank you.
Speaker B (35:07):
Well, thank you, Anatoly.
Thanks for being with us.
Have you seen our new podcast and YouTubewebsite, trailblazersimpact.com?
Join us there and please leave a review oniTunes.
Check out our new shorts on our YouTubechannel, trailblazers impact interviews.
Until next time, check out my newsletter onLinkedIn.
(35:30):
Also, I host a new lead and succeed communityto quickly accelerate your leadership skills
and explore our regular website,namackconnects.com with new resources.
What are you doing to adapt your online business to the fast changing world of
SEO and digital marketing?Anatoly, an SEO expert, explains why adapting
to technology and AI means creating tools toimprove your SEO, build brand awareness, and
get ahead of the competition.
(00:26):
Welcome.
I'm Nan McKay, the voice behind Trailblazersimpact, your beacon to extraordinary women
trailblazing unique paths.
Our podcast spotlights luminaries whose life
stories inspire and empower delivered to yourears bi weekly.
Buckle up for another episode packed withpowerful narratives and empowering journeys on
(00:49):
trailblazers impact.
Stay with us.
Speaker B (00:53):
Welcome to our latest episode where we are thrilled to have Anatoly Ulitofsky join
us.
He's a seasoned entrepreneur and he's also an
SEO wizard.
Anatoly's journey is a remarkable tale of
resilience, innovation and strategic thinkingin the digital world.
(01:16):
Starting in 2008, he ventured into the onlinebusiness realm with an electronic gadget shop
in Ukraine developed in partnership with hisbrothers.
Despite its initial success, Anatoly quicklyrealized that paid advertisements weren't
(01:37):
enough in the rapidly evolving online market.
And this realization propelled him into the
world of SEO, where after overcomingchallenges with marketing agencies and
adapting to major Google algorithm updates, henot only boosted his business, but also
(02:00):
mastered the art of online visibility.
So today, Anatoly stands as a beacon in the
SEO industry, leading his own SEO consultingagency on Miss, his podcasting and blogging,
and continuously exploring new creative waysto enhance online presence for various
(02:26):
businesses.
His story is not just about adapting to
change, but thriving in it, making him a go toexpert for anyone looking to understand the
power and the potential of SEO in today'sdigital landscape.
So let's dive into his insights, experiencesand uncover how he navigates complex and
(02:54):
competitive the world of online marketing.
So welcome Anatoly.
Speaker C (03:03):
Hi, how are you? Yeah, thanks a lot for this invitation.
It means a lot for me.
I never thought that I'm so good like you
mentioned about me, because I'm student onthis life, I keep learning.
I made a lot of mistakes, keep doing them.
It's part of my process to learn, to keep
going ahead.
And one more thing, I love what I do.
(03:25):
I can fail, but I never stop because of lovingis my passion.
It's not about SEO.
I like to get organic reach, I like to get
traffic, I like to find new ways how to goahead.
I'm not special, I'm just student who wannachange the world.
Speaker B (03:43):
Well, that's all about being what an expert is.
You know, as an expert, you have to never stoplearning because things keep changing, right?
Speaker C (03:52):
Of course, yeah.
Digital marketing, SEO, I think it's quickly
changing wealth.
And I compare data with other niches.
For example, when AI build, probably, I don'twant to say a hundred percent, but it's close
to this number of marketers adopted to AI.
(04:12):
According to data adopted strongly.
The rest are looking for ways how to do itbetter.
And I, compared with other niches likeaccounting, people don't use AI, ignore this
tool.
I think it's a big mistake because we don't
know what we'll bring next.
(04:34):
AI calculations are great.
Probably today they can't help a lot inaccounting, but definitely in the future we
will see this switch and changes as well.
And in digital marketing, it's very important
to adapt fast.
You know, I'm on the second stage.
I can't create new chat GPT, I can't createMicrosoft Google, but I can be in the second
(04:58):
stage when all these innovations are coming,we need to adapt fast.
Because in digital marketing, if somethingworks today, doesn't mean you can get results
tomorrow.
You need to move fast.
You need to think fast to adapt fast, thenresults will come.
Speaker B (05:14):
I totally agree with you.
When we look back, a lot of people are kind of
afraid of AI and chat GPT.
But the reality is if we look at the Internet
as an example, people felt that way in thevery beginning of the Internet, oh my, steal
my data.
Or, oh, and of course that's partially true.
Good.
(05:34):
But on the other hand, the benefits outweigh
it.
And everybody's on the Internet, so I think
it's going to be the same thing.
We just have to use it judiciously.
But for content creation, it is amazing.
Speaker C (05:49):
Yeah, I think we still have time before terminators will kill all human beings.
Because today, you know, because today AI canhelp a lot marketers.
AI, it's a must have tool.
When Cha PT appealed, I grew my results a lot.
(06:11):
And I disagree when someone can tell Googlehates AI.
No, Google loves AI.
If you use it smart, if you can use this tool
to create high quality content.
We grew some projects from zero to plus 2000
people a day in a very competitive niche withAI content.
(06:33):
It's not because we can game this.
I don't know how to game the system, but I
know how to create high quality content withAI.
So if you can do it, then results will come.
If you can't, then you need to understand that
someone can replace your AI tools can'treplace you, but someone who can adapt to AI
(06:53):
tool, they will replace you.
If you don't move fast.
So for me it's a new journey.
And today it's the best time, the best time to
adapt to AI.
When Internet appeal, that was the first best
time.
Today it's the second.
So any new technologies like Facebook, TikTok,when they pull, people have time to adapt
(07:14):
fast, to move forward.
Then it's much simpler to compete with others.
Today you have this time, we still have a lotof time, a lot of opportunities to adapt to
AI, to create high quality content, to getgreat results.
Just think how you can do it.
It's not like for you can do it for a few
(07:34):
days.
It takes time, you know, to craft, to play, to
fail.
I can't say how many times I fail.
When I decided to write press releases, I useAI and I failed with all my press releases, I
pitched all of them.
I wrote a bunch of press releases.
Today we got mentions on CNN, Bloomberg,Business Insider, Investing.com, big websites,
(07:59):
popular website.
Because of failing, we failed.
But from the way how to do it better.
Speaker B (08:06):
Yeah, I totally agree with you.
Let's go back and reflect a little bit on your
journey.
How have do you think effective SEO strategies
directly benefited your online business?And the second question that you might segue
into is what was the most significant changethat you noticed after implementing the
(08:31):
strategy?
Speaker C (08:32):
I think SEO strategy takes time and it's very important to spend this time to
collect data, to analyze, to think aboutcustomers, even more about your products.
Because most marketing guides tell you need toknow your audience.
(08:53):
Of course you need, but you need to understandproduct first.
For example, when I decided to promote onlinegames, the first thing what I did, I played
these games.
I played a few days on these games.
And when my son phoned me and asked, what'sgoing on?
You told me I need to read books.
But you play online games and disallow me.
(09:16):
No, no, no, I replied to him, you know,someone paid me sixteen k to play these games.
What?Sixteen k?
I play a lot more, have extended experiencethan you, but nobody pays me to play this
game.
But it's another story.
Someone paid me to learn the product, tounderstand how to market the product.
(09:36):
So I played when I got experience, why peoplecan play these games, how they can reload
their mind, to spend time, to enjoy theprocess.
I started to learn about buying Persona, aboutcustomers, users.
I collected data.
Then when I know the product, when I know
about target audience, I can craft thestrategy and it's very important to do it
(10:02):
right because I see when some projects canearn a lot of traffic good traffic but can't
sell products.
And I spoke with one master who lost 400,000
traffic, a lot of traffic.
He spent so much resources time to get this
traffic, but he can't monetize this traffic.
And for me, it's more important to get traffic
(10:25):
value, to get traffic that covers buyingPersona.
And when you find topics that you can takeyour sales funnel, buying Persona, their
journey, then you can go ahead to choosepriorities.
Because priorities are key.
(10:46):
And I see when projects create a plan with
100,000 keywords and they don't know what tocreate, even bigger companies have limited
resources.
I usually spend time to choose topics one by
one that we can where we can create greatcontent.
(11:07):
If I can't feel that we can create greatcontent, we skip them.
We can find other topics.
If I see that my competitors have great
content, why I need to compete with them.
Okay, you have it.
I can leave because I can find other topics.
It's important to create content plan where
you can provide something new, valuable, muchbetter content then to cover with your brand
(11:29):
Persona, to submit this call to action andthink more about quality than quantity.
I like quantity as well.
Let me explain why.
Because it's tough to create quality withouthaving experience with quantity.
That is why I write a lot.
I love writing.
I write plus thousand words a day because Iwant to craft the skill.
(11:53):
I want to get great results.
And if you want to win in SEO game, you need
to create high quality, super high qualitycontent for your blog, for your website, and
crafting your skills on social media.
Because on social media, some posts can die
for a few hours, a few days and nobody caresabout them.
But you need to write to think about yourtarget audience, to bring value on social
(12:17):
media and get more experience with writing.
Even today when content creators use chat, GPT
and any other AI tools, if you don't know howto write, if you have no these skills, you can
create great content.
You need to know the topic, you need to know
how to write and the best results are comingfrom someone who have this experience to
(12:40):
write.
So I write a lot.
I recommend to all my clients to write.
Then when you have the skills, when you know
where you can bring a lot more value, you cancreate the right content.
Plan to schedule some posts when they willcome and something like this.
(13:00):
And think about other metrics likecompetition, about sales, how many sales you
can get from specific boss, how you canprovide something new, valuable.
Because it's not only to create one more pieceof content.
You need to stand out from the rest.
(13:21):
It's very important in digital marketing.
So I recommend to anyone if you want to wintoday in digital marketing, spend more time to
learn product, to learn customers, to createthe right content plan and find people who can
help you to implement all your ideas.
Speaker B (13:41):
Well, I think every business owner wants to increase website traffic.
What initial actions do you think they shouldconsider?
Speaker C (13:53):
I think initial actions, it depends on the project.
I can't say that we have one template thatworks for anybody else.
I usually start to learn competitors.
I usually start to check what actually works
for them.
Then when I have a list of ideas, think about
(14:18):
my strong side.
For example, let's imagine you are good
writer.
Why you need to film short videos for TikTok
if it's not your strong side?If you good with filming, then film.
Forget about writing.
I know some projects have no SEO traffic, but
(14:40):
they are good with YouTube, TikTok to getsales from these channels.
If you can hire someone who can decide theseproblems, then yeah, use them.
So first you need to think about your strongside, then to analyze weak side of your
competitors.
If you see that you are much better than your
(15:01):
competitors, jump.
If you can't skip it, you don't need to create
one more piece of content.
It's like to write a new book.
When we have plus thousand books, I often askmy friends about new movies and the most
common reply, nothing special.
I watch many similar movies with the same
(15:23):
plot.
Who cares to watch one more movie?
We want to watch something new.
It's the same with digital marketing.
If you can't skip it.
But if you can, then think, can you do it
better?And think about your strong side.
So when you know strong side, when you knowcompetitors know your customers, results will
come.
(15:43):
Just be patient and go ahead, step by step.
Speaker B (15:47):
Can you share an example of how maybe a creative and a non standard SEO
approach significantly boosted a website'straffic?
Maybe their overall online presence?
Speaker C (16:02):
Yeah, my last example about trading news and when I got this client, it's like
three years ago, he gave me website with abunch of filters.
And even when I checked this website, I gotthe feeling I can't help this project.
(16:26):
It's better to create a new one.
Forget about this website because everything
was terrible.
Black hat SEO, obsolete content written for
search engines.
Nothing special, but we got good budget, good
money.
So we started to rebuild everything from
(16:47):
scratch to update content.
We spent time to find great people who can
write for Forbes, Bloomberg, big websites.
We hired them to rewrite all this content.
We changed, uh, link building.
We changed PR we got great mentions, links, we
created a bunch of tools.
(17:07):
But what I did, I didn't listen to advice from
my customer.
He told me, okay, let's check these
competitors, analyze them.
We need to do the same.
I replied to him, no, no, we don't need to doit.
Let me explain why.
Because your competitors do what you did
(17:28):
before, you got punishment first Google phoneand filter your website.
Your competitors, I don't know, probablyGoogle will take them, catch them, I don't
know.
Or they will work.
But they can grow fast.
Today, after three years, this website is
(17:50):
growing.
We got a lot of great traffic, big traffic.
We have many new goals to grow this traffic.
But competitors are decreasing.
All competitors are decreasing because ofusing obsolete strategies.
Of course the strategies work, that workswell.
But as we started this podcast that digitalmarketing is a quickly changing world.
(18:15):
We need to adapt fast.
We need to go ahead so we change all
approaches.
And we were a patient, patient with results.
So nobody works overnight.
Even a few months are not enough.
It's not like six months, you can get results.
No, it takes years.
I spoke with Lily Ray on my podcast and shereplied to me, some projects take a few years
(18:40):
to see first meaningful results.
Because many competitors, many websites wanna
get this traffic.
Of course we can find much faster way, but it
doesn't mean that we can game the system andto get results fast.
It takes time to craft the process, to hireright people.
(19:00):
And in my agency I usually find people, Ireach out to them.
I don't use support I used before.
But right now we reaching out directly to
great offers.
We created the process of PR link building and
that is why we are growing.
So I recommend to anyone, forget about best
(19:22):
practices.
You can learn best practices, but if you feel
that best practices are related to your strongsign, do it.
If it's not, forget you know.
Yes.
Self Gordon doesn't film short videos onTikTok.
Stephen King ignores TikTok, but he's goodwith writing.
(19:45):
He can write great pieces of content.
So great books.
You need to do similar.
Just think about your strong side, about your
passion, even more about passion.
If you love something but have no strong side,
then be consistent and results will come.
You can build a strong side.
Just love the process if you hate it.
(20:07):
Many content creators give up so fast.
They give up because they don't see results.
I have no idea how to do it fast.
Speaker B (20:15):
So answer is just be patient.
Speaker C (20:18):
Yeah, be patient and love what you.
Speaker B (20:20):
Do and love what you're doing in managing your SEO agency.
How do you tailor those SEO strategies todiverse clients to ensure that they achieve
noticeable improvements in web traffic andonline visibility.
Speaker C (20:37):
I think even biggest agency can't hire all best experts.
So I remember in 2008, we hired a team ofwriters who wrote about anything.
I gave them topics, all topics, anything.
Weight loss, finance, accounting, anything
(20:58):
they wrote, Google Rank, then Google updatedalgorithms many times.
And today we are looking for experts who, whoknow the topic, who can write only about one
specific topic.
So Google fired all this team.
Okay, I fired this team.
But Google helped me to fire people who can
write about anything.
(21:19):
And today I outsource writers who write for
big publications.
And even, let's imagine when I paid for pr,
$6,000 for one press release.
And I found all these PR agencies charge good
money for one press release.
(21:40):
And what they usually did, they write
themselves.
Even today they understand journalists.
They understand what people are looking forand can write press releases.
But they are not experts on these topics.
They far away from that.
So what we change.
I paid for a while this money.
And then when I got it, I need twelve pressreleases to satisfy intent of my customers.
(22:05):
A week, it's like more than seventy k a week.
And if we account for a year, it's $3,700,000.
It's a lot.
So. And I got it.
It's tough to pay this money.
It's really hard.
Then we phone experts who can write for bigpublications.
(22:28):
They usually write for our blog and I explainthem how we can write press releases.
I showed the process, we failed many times.
But today when we got mentions on CNN,
Bloomberg, we got it.
Wow, we changed the game.
It's another experience.
So can I allow these people on my team?
(22:50):
No, I can't because they work on Forbes, theywork on big publications, but I can outsource
them.
It's like ghost writing, you know, people are
looking for passive income.
You can find these people to agree fix price.
You can learn how tools work and create theprocess.
(23:11):
If you got much better results than if we pay6000 per person, much better results.
We checked and we analyzed PR agency who canwrite this press release.
They're not experts, but we get results fromexperts.
You just need to teach them what kind of pressreleases to write, why journalists can post
(23:34):
those press releases, and how to pitch allthese press releases, right?
So my advice for anyone learn, think, can youdo it differently?
Then results will come.
Speaker B (23:48):
Okay. Given the intense competition in the online space, what key advice would you
give to businesses about the benefits of SEOand how to leverage these strategies to stand
out in what's a saturated market?
Speaker C (24:07):
Yeah. Okay, about this market.
Extremely competitive, market saturated,
overwhelmed.
I want to say you need to switch your
attention or start to switch your attentionfrom writing blog posts.
Let me explain why.
In 2008, we created ecommerce content that was
(24:29):
simple to game the system.
Google didn't recognize user intent that
Google can do it today.
Today, blogs get more traffic than any other
channel.
56% of all traffic are coming to blog.
That is why all websites have blocks.
I think it's a good idea to start blogging
(24:51):
content.
But the first thing, it's extremely
competitive today.
Plus, 7 million blog posts appeal every single
day.
You need to create blog posts and you have no
idea.
Can you get results or not even big websites
can get results with blog content.
Neil Patel shared that most of his blog
(25:13):
content don't get traffic.
Yes, he got a lot of traffic he gets, but most
of content are dying.
If new puzzle can't, let's imagine about
others.
You know, it's.
It's really tough.
The second I'm not sure about the future of
block content.
You know, when the feature snippet appealed on
Google, many content creators complain thatGoogle can steal our traffic.
(25:37):
What about today?When chatbots can still rewrite your content
and even without linking to you, Google atleast linked to our content.
And when someone can tell that SEO will neverbe dead?
I'm not sure about that.
I think everything has the end, including SEO.
(26:02):
And here are two reasons.
Today, when chat GPT appealed, 12% of people
use chatbots to search for information,including me.
I speak with chatbots more often than with mywife.
I love my wife, but.
Yeah, but I can ask a lot of great questions
on chat GPT, and 12% of people can do it.
(26:27):
When I search something that it's tough to
find on Google, I still have these questions.
Like for example, I decided to open new
business in Florida.
I needed a list of documents.
I asked this question on Google and I got alot of information about business.
Why it's important to open business.
What is the difference in for it?
I don't need it.
(26:48):
You know, of course it's valuable, it's
helpful for someone, but I don't need it.
I needed a list of documents.
That's it.
So chat GPT gave me answer for a few seconds.
Yeah.
Yes, the same with Bart.
I asked about can I use self drivers featureon Tesla?
(27:08):
And Bart gave me answer for a few seconds onGoogle.
If you ask this question, you can get a lot ofinformation about Tesla, about electrical
cars.
Why it's important for our environment.
Of course it's important.
I don't deny it, but I don't need it, you
know, I don't need this information.
So I think it's only beginning of chatbots
(27:31):
evolution.
More and more people will ask questions on
chatbots.
The main problem with chatbots, they don't
link to our content.
So they can rephrase, rewrite, provide
information.
And that is why I think we need to move fast.
It doesn't matter that blue content will die.
(27:56):
New York Times, Forbes were created before
digital.
They adapted to digital, they adapt to any
other environment.
So today, it's important to have strong brand
recognition, to build brand awareness whenpeople open your blogs and wanna read you.
So to get direct traffic.
The second SEO doesn't teach us how to rank on
(28:21):
Google, of course SEO can teach about that.
But SEO teaches how to create high quality
content, how to earn authoritative, relevantbacklinks.
It's not only about to get ranking positions,it's more about to create brand awareness.
If I get mentioned on CNN, Forbes, it doesn'tmean that it's only for SEO.
(28:43):
It can help to build my recognition, my brand,so you can use insights that SEO teaches us
and to switch attention to write less blogcontent.
Even if it works today, probably if you can doit today, if you're great with that, probably
(29:07):
you don't need.
But if you start a new website, it will be
tough to win this game.
So I recommend to switch attention to create
simple tools.
Simple tools like calculators, converters,
like any other tools, you can find a bunch oftools and we have great results.
(29:30):
With tools, it's not competitive, it's nottough.
People, content creators usually craft blogcontent, but they ignore tools.
And on this niche, you can still get a lot oftraffic.
Chat bots are not ready to replace toolstoday.
(29:50):
What you can do with tools differently, forexample, you can find a calculator.
Let's imagine, I don't know how to lose weightcalculator.
Yes.
So you can use how many calories to eat a day.
You can consider your age, sex, everything.
Yeah.
And you can find tools that get milliontraffic.
(30:14):
If you adapt to AI, it's simple.
Just go to chat GPT and ask, okay, I want to
create this tool, but I want to createsomething better.
Chat GPT or bar can listen updates that youcan make much better.
Then you can unite and connect Appian andcreate much better tools or any other tools
(30:42):
are not ready to replace such tools with userfriendly interface.
SEO brings a lot of traffic to tools.
So if you wanna think about the future, you
need to understand today, jump to tools, youcan get great results.
And I do it.
I get a lot of traffic to tools.
(31:02):
We create simple tools, we submit our call toaction.
We grew a few projects in very competitiveniche for a year.
If I do it with blog content, we still useblog content, but most traffic are coming to
tools because it's not competitive.
You still have room for that.
Speaker B (31:21):
Now that's really interesting.
I'm looking for a tool and I'm thinking to
myself, I wonder if I put that I want a toolthat creates simplistic games related to
courses that I put up.
Have you ever seen anything like that?
Speaker C (31:42):
Yeah. Yeah. Because I help with creating online games and if you want to unite
with specific projects, yeah, it's possible.
It's not tough to do it.
Speaker B (31:54):
So if somebody wants to do something, whether it's SEO and build a new
website, go back to their, as you said, goback to their buyer Persona, create that and
start all over again.
How can people contact you and what would you
suggest?Just promote yourself a little bit.
Speaker C (32:16):
Yeah, I want to help you with your tool about gaming.
So the right way?Yeah, to show the right way.
If you want to create a game, you can usewebsite unity.com.
It's popular website where you can find a lotof templates with sounds design customizable
(32:40):
to any tools.
Then when you find great asset, you can ask
people on upwork to develop this tool for you.
And it doesn't cost a lot of money.
It's not expensive, crazy money.
So you can do it probably for a few thousand
dollars.
You can create great game and show to your
(33:04):
customers, users even to get aco traffic.
Just use unity.
We have another website.
What is that?
Quote quote kenyan I can send the link canyonyeah.com let me write to you.
Speaker B (33:24):
Well that's okay, I'll get it after people can, but how can they contact you?
Speaker C (33:31):
Yeah, the best way to contact me to reach out on LinkedIn.
But please add the message I ignore.
When someone reaches out to me without the
message, if I see the template on thismessage, I still ignore.
But if you write personalized message then Iwill reply 100%.
(33:55):
You can reach out to me on my websiteunmist.com.
So to ask anything that I can help you to leadin the right direction.
So I'm open with that.
I'm active but super busy so be patient if I
can't reply immediately.
Speaker B (34:11):
So UnMISS unmiSs.com and contact you on LinkedIn and maybe just say from Nan's
podcast or something like that so that, youknow, they're legitimate.
(34:32):
Whatever.
Well, thank you so much for all your time and
appreciate everything that you've done to giveus some good advice and bring us up to date
with what's really happening.
Speaker C (34:44):
Yeah, a big pleasure.
Thanks a lot for inviting me, for asking all
these great questions.
It means a lot for me.
I love to share value.
I love to help others.
So if you wanna invite one more time, I willbring more value.
Guys, ask me any questions.
Simple, stupid, smart, I don't care.
(35:04):
Ask anything.
I will reply to all of them.
Thank you.
Speaker B (35:07):
Well, thank you, Anatoly.
Thanks for being with us.
Have you seen our new podcast and YouTubewebsite, trailblazersimpact.com?
Join us there and please leave a review oniTunes.
Check out our new shorts on our YouTubechannel, trailblazers impact interviews.
Until next time, check out my newsletter onLinkedIn.
(35:30):
Also, I host a new lead and succeed communityto quickly accelerate your leadership skills
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