We are pretty cute though š š
From sneaking into national conferences to fighting for trans liberation in rural Idaho, Bonnie Violet and Pacey break down what it means to resist, speak truth, and survive when your existence is political. This episode isnāt cuteāitās critical.
What happens when national LGBTQ2SIA+ leaders underestimate rural resistance? When World Pride gets shut down by police but queers keep dancing in the streets? When you're told your life isnāt under threat, even as laws strip your rights away?
In this raw and urgent episode of Trans Joy Boise, hosts Bonnie Violet and Pacey share personal reflections from Washington, D.C., where Idahoās trans activists were both underestimated and spotlighted at the Human Rights Conference. From affirming moments with icons like Raquel Willis to the deep vulnerability of being dismissed by those in power, we explore what itās like to be trans in the trenchesāespecially in so-called "flyover" states.
Youāll hear:
- How Bonnie snuck into national conversations to make trans Idaho visible
- Why people calling Idaho ācuteā is dangerous, not flattering
- The nervous system toll of constant vigilance in anti-trans America
- How World Pride DCās protest roots re-emerged under pressure
- The spiritual and emotional impact of showing up, even when you're not invited
- Bi-erasure in media, pop cultureās shifting queerness, and burnout
- Why Pride must be both a celebration and a protest at Canyon County Pride
This is a love letter to those doing the work without credit or comfortāand a call-out to those still stuck in rainbow-washed apathy.
āØ Whether youāre on the streets, in the pews, or behind the micāthis episode is for you. Because weāre not here for cute anymore. Weāre here for power.
š§ Subscribe, share, and leave a review. Help amplify queer and trans voices from Idaho and beyond.
Ā #TransJoyBoise #TransLiberationNow #IdahoIsNotCute #TransVoices #PrideIsAProtest #QueerPodcast #HIVIsNotACrime #BiErasure #RaquelWillis #RuralResistance #QueerJoy #TransFemmeVoices #TransMascVoices #PridePolitics #QueerSpirituality #FromIdahoWithLove #CanyonCountyPride
š Join the conversation!
- Subscribe on YouTube for more episodes on trans joy, resilience, and advocacy:
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- Support our work and help us keep creating affirming spaces.
Letās celebrate trans joy and resilience together!
#transjoyboise #transjoy #boise
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bonnie Violet (00:00):
Hi everyone.
How's it going?
I'm Bonnie Violet, trans femme,gender queer, spiritual drag
artist, chaplain, and I'm PaceyTrans masc non-binary Mental
Health and recovery
Pacey (00:07):
Advocate,
Bonnie Violet (00:08):
and welcome to Trans Joy Boise, where every
story, laugh and act of joy is astand for our community.
We uplift bold voices, share
Pacey (00:17):
real experiences, and celebrate trans lives thriving.
Bonnie Violet (00:20):
Tune in and connect and spread the joy
because trans joy isunstoppables unstoppable.
Yes.
Awesome.
I know.
It's like we, we skip a coupleof weeks and it's like, yeah, it
does feel a little like, I don'tknow.
It That felt pretty smooth.
Yes.
To me.
Yeah.
Yes.
And I'm feeling awkward.
Oh yeah.
That always comes back, right?
(00:40):
Because I'm always awkwardanyway,
Pacey (00:41):
because I, I don't like being the center of attention.
I hate it.
Um, so anytime I'm, and likewe're looking at a big monitor
of ourselves and that does nothelp.
So
Bonnie Violet (00:53):
it's not the greatest angle either versus
Pacey (00:56):
just like,
Bonnie Violet (00:57):
hi, but
Pacey (00:59):
yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's, uh, yeah, we missed acouple weeks.
I was horrifically ill.
Mm.
I get, I have chronic sinusitisand it's, you know, a
consequence of drug use fromwhen I was younger.
So my sinuses are just fuckedand anything.
Can be in the air and I'll get asinus infection.
So this one was particularlybad.
I had to have two rounds ofantibiotics and now I need to
(01:21):
get the.
The rhinoplasty surgery.
Right.
And that's one that I've beenterrified for over 15 years.
But it's like, it's it's time.
Bonnie Violet (01:29):
Yeah.
It was when you were texting meabout I'm glad, so glad that
you're feeling better.
'cause I know you're feelingawful.
But there was one time when youtexted and you said like, I
guess it's time to have thesurgery.
And I was like, I knew what youwere talking about.
Yeah.
But, and it wasn't quite the Thesurgery.
The surgery, you know, his text.
I added a little oomph to it,but I, I almost sent a joke
(01:50):
about it.
I was like, I just don't thinkit's gonna come across.
Right.
So that's, but yeah.
That's funny.
Oh, thus It's funny now.
Yeah.
I was fucking miserable for overtwo weeks, so Yes.
And I was away most of,
Pacey (02:02):
yeah.
Bonnie Violet (02:02):
The, i the last couple of weeks.
Mm-hmm.
So I got to go to the, hi.
The HIV is not a
Pacey (02:07):
crime,
Bonnie Violet (02:09):
uh, uh, conference, or it's actually a
training academy in Raleigh,North Carolina.
Which was a really coolexperience.
Um, and then I, I was at theHuman Rights Conference and the
National Trans Visibility Marchand World Pride.
Yeah.
So it was like, it was reallycool.
And it was also, it was reallytough.
Pacey (02:29):
Really.
Bonnie Violet (02:29):
It was really, really tough.
You know how, um, it was just alot, you know, a lot of us, you
know, it was kind of cool to bewith folks all over the country.
Um.
And mostly, um, when, when I godo stuff, when we go to trans
stuff or HIV stuff, in otherparts of the, the country, it's
almost all run and led by blackfolks.
Black, black and brown folks.
(02:51):
I love that.
Trans folks.
Yeah.
So it's really, it's reallyawesome and it's really a unique
kind of, um, opportunity I thinkfor, and so I always, I always
love it and I als always learnso much.
Um, and it was also a little,um.
It was affirming as well as itwas kind of disheartening.
Yeah.
In the sense that I foundmyself, whether I was at the
(03:12):
Human Rights Conference or theHIV is not a crime or the trans
visibility March stuff, like alot of our communities are
struggling.
Yeah.
There's a lot of difficulty in,in collaboration in working with
their local partners.
Um, okay.
Yeah.
And, uh, and they're really, um,I.
(03:34):
You can tell people are reallyup in arms about it.
Like I was in one con, oneconversation where the
instructor actually left
Pacey (03:41):
really?
Bonnie Violet (03:41):
And we just kind of picked it up from there
because people were just sharingwhat their experience was as
being like a translator rightnow.
Pacey (03:49):
Mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (03:50):
And you couldn't help but your experience kind of
like.
Um, impact other people in theroom.
So you might say something like,well, I lost my job and this and
that, or it feels like only the,the pretty trans girls get the
work, or, you know, things likethat.
And then, you know, the prettytrans girls in the room are
like, what the fuck?
(04:10):
Like, yeah, I've worked hard toget here too.
And then there's like, sothere's this, um, and, and I
think everyone, we're allearnestly trying to move.
At it, you know, and then youhave trans men who are very
regular, rarely even a part ofthe conversation.
Pacey (04:25):
Mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (04:25):
Uh, which is a whole nother issue.
And, and one of the things thatin HIV we're starting to see a
lot more HIV with trans men aswell.
Really?
And so they've always kind ofbeen like in the background of a
lot of the trans conversations.
I mean, you have protect thedolls, right?
Of
Pacey (04:41):
course.
Yeah.
You know, I did see that, likean alternative for that, like
for the, the men would be.
Uh, protect the Kens.
Bonnie Violet (04:47):
The Kens.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, I, yeah, yeah.
I mean, I've heard them refer toas like, action figures or
whatever, but you know, that's,I, I don't know.
Um, but it was, so, it wasreally, but in a lot of ways
that was affirming because Ifeel like that's a lot of the
challenges that we've had here.
Uh, there are a lot of us, um,in, in Idaho in particular.
(05:08):
I think Idaho is reallyresponding well.
To what is happening and Ohyeah.
People are coming to the frontlines from all over and that has
been really difficult, I think,for a lot of us to figure out
our place.
I know we've, we've even beenchallenged at times with feeling
like either getting our toesstepped on or unsure of where we
(05:30):
fit or you know, just a lot ofdifferent kinds of challenges,
whether it's with other transand non-binary folks, or it's,
it's typically usually withcommunities that are like.
Shared like broader L-G-B-T-Qcommunities than like other
trans and non-binarycommunities.
But, um, so, and it's like, andI think we're all, um, just kind
(05:51):
of challenged by it.
I don't think anyone has anymal-intent.
Anyone is, um, not wanting tocollaborate and work well with
one another.
'cause I feel like I have falleninto that realm.
Probably just as much, if notworse, which has been really
challenging for me.
'cause I feel like I've alwaysprided myself and I've always
(06:11):
been one who's been able to kindof like be that in between and
like be able to work with peoplethat other people don't wanna
work with in an authentic andreal way.
And it always had been, but I'vebeen finding myself, getting my
feelings hurt a lot more.
Um, and then that makes itdifficult for me to kind of move
forward in a lot of differentrelationships.
(06:32):
And I felt that.
Locally, but even on a nationallevel.
Yeah.
You know, a national level.
The conversation about what'shappening is so different.
There's a lot more optimism andthere's a lot more spaces for
power, which, which Iunderstand, but in doing that
they kind of like don't for,they forget about us.
And so I find myself a lot oftimes going, but what about me
(06:54):
or what about us?
You know?
Pacey (06:55):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (06:56):
And I did have an opportunity at the human rights
conference.
To shake things up a little bit.
Oh, good.
So I, I was a bit of adisruptor, which is not usually
my mm-hmm.
Thing, but I did get up thereand I kind of called some of the
speakers out and was like, Ilove that, but you know, what
about places like Idaho?
Pacey (07:13):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (07:13):
You know, and what about this?
And explaining our stuff.
And I just kind of felt liketalked down to
Pacey (07:19):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (07:20):
Like it was very patronizing and condescending
and I was like, with all duerespect, like, I get that.
Yeah.
Like this is not about that.
Right.
This is about the bigger thing.
And really for us, I think it'slike how can,'cause, because we
are doing the work here.
Mm-hmm.
And I believe that we're gonnahave the utmost success possible
Pacey (07:37):
mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (07:38):
In Idaho because there are so many people coming
together.
However,
Pacey (07:41):
yeah.
Bonnie Violet (07:42):
I think it takes more than, than us here.
Yeah.
To have a bigger impact for ushere as well as, you know,
beyond.
And, and I, I think some way,somehow we need to be invited to
those tables.
We need to be in theconversations which we are
doing.
Yeah.
Um, a little bit more,especially with like the A CLU
Pacey (08:03):
mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (08:04):
And that sort of thing.
But, um, sorry, I feel like Italked a lot, but Oh, that's
okay.
It was, I haven't reallyprocessed
Pacey (08:10):
Yeah.
The whole thing.
No, it sounds, um, it soundslike a lot.
Yeah.
And I think that you'reabsolutely right.
Like we need to be sitting atthose tables and we are being
invited to some of them.
Mm-hmm.
But the rest, like, we're gonnahave to just force our way into,
Bonnie Violet (08:24):
well, and sometimes when we do go to those
tables, are we really.
Pacey (08:27):
Yeah, right, exactly.
Bonnie Violet (08:29):
Because there's kind of that condescending like
mm-hmm.
Oh, isn't it cute?
Idaho's in the room.
Pacey (08:35):
Yeah.
But I think that that's, God,that's so fucking frustrating
when I.
It's like they don't know.
It's like I think that theirmentality is fucking cute.
Like, oh, that's so cute.
You think this isn't a big deal?
Oh, that's so cute.
You think that this isn't gonnahappen to you.
That's so cute.
Right.
You don't have to worry about,you know, catching criminal
(08:56):
charges for your body.
That's fucking adorable.
In Idaho, we know what'sactually happening.
Mm-hmm.
And what is truly at stake, somaybe you should get on our
level.
And that was kind of the vibethat I left DC with.
Mm-hmm.
When we went to that event was.
Everyone was sort of in awe ofhow much I Idaho has going right
now mm-hmm.
Uh, to fight thisadministration.
(09:17):
And it was disheartening to mebecause we are there out of
necessity.
Right.
Like we have to be at that levelright now.
And if everyone else, like thosecute people at the table that
are talking down to you couldget on our level.
Mm-hmm.
We would be a stronger unifiedfront.
Bonnie Violet (09:32):
Yeah.
And
Pacey (09:32):
like I realize that we're there because of necessity and
they're not yet.
But it's yet,
Bonnie Violet (09:38):
right.
Well, we are only there.
Like I was only at the humanrights conference because I was,
happened to like be able tosneak into somebody's hotel room
and stay with them, and then Iwas able to sneak in to get a
free
Pacey (09:49):
mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
Bonnie Violet (09:50):
Like I was able to sneak around and then I got
like a cheap way to get, youknow what I mean?
Like mm-hmm.
It wasn't like, and, and that isstill privilege, like that was
still a lot of privilege that Iwas able to get in the room, but
that was the only reason Iwasn't even there.
But it was really affirmingbecause when I stood up and I
said that people.
Were like, yeah, you were right.
Like I, people encourage me,including people like Raquel
(10:11):
Willis, which was like just, itwas just affirming because I
think sometimes it can feellike, honestly I felt like after
I said what I said, I almostfelt like shame about it because
there was kind of thisvulnerability, I think, and this
weakness that like I put outthere and then it wasn't really
met well.
Pacey (10:30):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (10:31):
Um, and you know, it's like on a.
A platform at this large con,you know what I mean?
Of course.
Like there's a lot of layers toit.
So I don't really hold, I don'twanna like villainize these
people.
Um, but I think just in general,like I, I'm just one person.
There's a lot of people aroundthe country that's having a
similar experience and there's alot of people that national
level that might come acrosswith that attitude or
(10:53):
perspective unintentionally.
Yeah.
Um.
Uh, so yeah, it's just, it'sjust really challenging.
And then I think kind ofleading, I know we wanted to
kind of lead into more localstuff, but I remember when we
were talking about the, um, Ithink we were talking about
getting to go to DC mm-hmm.
Pacey (11:10):
And
Bonnie Violet (11:11):
you were talking about how like it was rainbows
and like, it was a really cool,like, uh, experience for you.
Right.
A lot of representation.
Mm-hmm.
And so I got to be in DC forWorld Pride for that, which,
there was that excitement, butthen.
I left before the parade in theactual trans march.
Mm-hmm.
'cause I had to get back here intime for Ken County Pride and
Exotica and stuff.
(11:32):
But, um, the, the last nightthat I was there, the police was
shutting everything down.
What?
Yeah.
So, I don't know if you saw thisUhuh, but, um, and it was like
all over some news things, butbasically the, the mayor and the
And Trump.
Yeah.
And folks were trying to stop.
Gay pride, world pride.
(11:52):
What?
And so as it was, a lot ofpeople didn't travel because
they were trans, because theywere like, you know what I mean?
Like, yeah.
It shouldn't have been here inthe first place.
There were a lot of folks, butit was kind of like planned so
long ago.
Mm-hmm.
And then things happened andyeah.
I'm surprised that it stillhappened, to be honest with you.
Pacey (12:06):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (12:07):
Um, and so, but the interesting thing was when I
was there, I think being part ofthe L-G-B-T-Q community and
stuff, I was just like, oh,they're closing down the,
they're closing down the roo theroad so that we can have a.
Have block parties.
Right.
Like, because that's'cause we'regonna be taking up a whole lot
of space.
Right.
And that was my perception thatwe were having.
So when I left DC I didn't evenhave any perception that there
(12:28):
was some sort of like,oppression on us or some, like,
we were just doing world prideanyway.
You know what I mean?
And so it, it, it made me wonderhow much of like, I, I started
to question whether that wasgood information.
Pacey (12:45):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (12:45):
You know, was Trump trying to, I.
Yeah.
Did they in the middle?
Did they?
You know, like, and it'sprobably true.
And yeah, I don't know.
And so I think that's one of thethings that's been really
interesting.
Uh, I don't know.
I just thought that was reallyinteresting coming back to here,
even after having thatexperience and thinking of the
(13:05):
idea that they're even trying toshut down dc.
But then, yeah, we didn't care.
Yeah, we did what we were doinganyway.
Well, at this point, we're usedto it.
I mean, and we've always usedit.
I mean, that's all about being,it was a riot.
It was a riot.
It was a protest.
Mm-hmm.
It always has been.
I know it's felt like we've beenable to like, yeah, it not be,
but, but you know, pride isstill a big deal here in places
(13:29):
like here, or even smallerplaces in Idaho.
Absolutely.
You know, so I think dependingon where you're at, it might not
seem as that much of a protestor a proclamation, but
Pacey (13:38):
it's very,
Bonnie Violet (13:39):
like,
Pacey (13:41):
it's different now.
I think.
Well, this year it's different,but I think like the last five,
10 years, pride has become likethis corporate almost.
I, I don't know.
Everyone has their, theirrainbow shit out in June and
then it's gone in July and it'sjust this giant party and
(14:04):
everyone gets really fucked upand, and there's music and
dancing and, and that's it.
But.
We're starting to go back tothe, you know, the memory.
Like this was a riot.
Uhhuh, it was a protest.
And it will continue to bebecause we have to fight still.
Mm-hmm.
And I think that I getfrustrated with some people that
(14:27):
are still very much just like,no, I just wanna party.
It's like, yeah, like you can goto pride and have a good time
and.
Fucking party, right?
Mm-hmm.
But we also need you to beshowing up in other ways where
it really matters.
Like, we need you at protest.
We need you at hearings.
Right?
Right.
And I think that now isn't thetime to just focus on like the
(14:49):
happy, fun part of it.
Like, yeah, we need that'causewe need a really good
distraction from all thisbullshit that's
Bonnie Violet (14:54):
happening, but it needs to be booked.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and I think that the thingthat's been interesting is, is
now I think even these, likethese folks that have been able
to kind of rest in themainstream mm-hmm.
Of being L-G-B-T-Q.
Now there are pride festivalsare getting impacted.
Like I know there's a lot ofcorporate sponsors that are
pulling out, or at least.
(15:15):
Doing a lot less than they weredoing once before, which I know
has caused, um, pride to feel alittle slighted in some ways.
Mm-hmm.
Which they should.
I also find it interesting thatI think there's been like three
pop stars that have, are nolonger queer or Oh very, no
longer appear relationships.
Exactly.
Like Fletcher Fletcher, I thinkBilly Eilish and Jojo.
Pacey (15:38):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (15:38):
Heard, I heard about that.
They recently have like.
Like, whatever.
And I, I feel like that's kindof interesting and that also
kind of makes me feel like I, Iguess I can see why then people
would be thinking that, likebeing queer is a trend or
something.
Yeah.
When the pop stars are now nolonger queer switching sides.
Yeah.
Well, some of them, and some ofthem are just in like straight
(16:02):
passing relationships.
Yeah.
And like, they're, they're bi,you
Pacey (16:06):
know?
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (16:07):
And where we always were.
Yeah.
So.
Pacey (16:10):
It's
Bonnie Violet (16:12):
tricky.
And sexuality can, likesexuality fluctuates.
Like I, I don't ever wanna
Pacey (16:17):
mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (16:17):
Like, I don't, I just find it interesting that
there's all this stuff kind ofhappening.
Yeah.
At the same time, it's,
Pacey (16:26):
it's just such a precarious time right now.
I feel like, like we weretalking about this earlier.
Mm-hmm.
Even if I'm feeling all right,you know, like I'm having a
great day, I'm feeling relaxed,like my nervous system.
Is the opposite.
Like I am ready internally toeither fight or run.
I feel just because mysubconscious knows that there's
(16:50):
all this dangerous stuffhappening around us in this
country, and I can't truly relaxbecause I feel like I'm just
constantly keyed up.
Yeah, and that bleeds into everyaspect of life, right?
Mm-hmm.
Because I'll be like, well, whyam I not enjoying this as much?
Or why am I irritable withpeople?
Or it's like, because I am.
Distressed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
At a very deep, fundamentallevel.
(17:12):
Mm-hmm.
And I feel like I've been likethat since November.
Bonnie Violet (17:16):
Yeah.
Pacey (17:17):
And I feel like that's gonna, I mean, the burnout is
starting to hit me from that.
Bonnie Violet (17:21):
Yeah.
Which I think is wild too,because I also think, I know
it's a lot for us to kind oflike do this podcast or you
know, do certain things and yetI find mm-hmm.
That it helps me.
Oh yeah.
Cope with a lot of that.
Pacey (17:36):
Mm-hmm.
That
Bonnie Violet (17:36):
at least is directly related to like being
trans Yeah.
In the world.
Mm-hmm.
Pacey (17:42):
Right.
Bonnie Violet (17:42):
So I think I find it as a way of kind of empower.
I don't know.
It, it helps in some ways.
I think it helps me feel like Ihave a little bit of control in
like what's
Pacey (17:52):
going
Bonnie Violet (17:53):
down.
Pacey (17:53):
Yeah.
No, I think so too.
And just being able to talkabout it with someone who, who
understands or like just withtrans people in general, like I
don't have to.
Explain why I feel certain waysabout certain situations.
Mm-hmm.
Or, you know, justify my anxietyor fear.
Uh,'cause that is still so oldwhen people are like, I still
(18:14):
get people, oh my God, on myInstagram, I got this girl
saying, uh, well, trans peopledon't.
Like they have the same rightsas cis people.
Like I don't see what you'reupset about.
So I of course like couldn't letthat go.
So I wrote this really longresponse mm-hmm.
Listing like every fucking rightthat we were getting taken away,
all these horrible things.
(18:35):
And I was just like, how couldwe be this far in this?
And you're still that doubt.
And you
Bonnie Violet (18:39):
don't, yeah.
Yeah.
But there's obviously like somedisconnects and there's obvious,
like I think one of the thingsthat we were talking about on
the national.
Level with folks is that, and,and I, and I feel this too, it's
just like we, people are havinga really hard time seeing past
their own struggle.
Yeah.
To see the struggle of others.
(18:59):
Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
So I think the challenge is, isa lot of those folks are
struggling in their own right?
Oh yeah.
Just in different ways.
Like it might not be aroundthere.
Their gender though, probably.
Pacey (19:10):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (19:11):
Women probably could, yeah.
Right.
Say they're experiencing stuffdirectly around that, but they
might not be like, equating itto that.
Yeah.
And are thinking about moreeconomics or, um, job or mm-hmm.
Whatever sort of, um, thingsthat, that are causing them
stress in their life right now.
Yeah.
And I think that's, I mean, I,that's the big, that's why like,
(19:33):
that's what Trump and Albanwant.
Yeah.
They want us to be be just likeso divided.
Yeah.
Because we're, we're likestressed out.
We're full of anxious anxiety,we're full of fear.
Mm-hmm.
Like all those sorts of things.
I was listening to a podcastearlier with Tourmaline, who is
an author, author about a recentbook about Marsha p Johnson's
(19:54):
life and mm-hmm.
And it kind of goes throughlike, who Marsha p Johnson
really was kind of like thegood, the bad, the ugly, so to
speak, in the sense of like thehuman
Pacey (20:03):
right.
Yeah.
Because, you
Bonnie Violet (20:04):
know, she's a saint and.
All those sort of things in alot of ways to our community.
But at the end of the day, shewas, you know, she was not
perfect and she, she had majorin middle mental illness.
Mm-hmm.
She was homeless at times.
She was, and yet she was thislike beacon.
Mm-hmm.
Um, for so many people.
And so kind of understanding thecomplexities of that.
(20:24):
But one of the things that shewas saying, she had mentioned
that, um, that like.
The thing about like these timesis like when we're presented
with a problem, which is what'shappening right now, it's like
we have a problem, we have aconflict.
Mm-hmm.
We have to kind of tap intothat.
Like we have to start to liveinto the solution.
Mm-hmm.
And not focus on the, the, the,the, the like problem.
(20:47):
Mm-hmm.
So like the problem is presentednow let's fix it or now let's
work on it.
Pacey (20:52):
Mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (20:53):
Um, and that can be a difficult thing to kind of
be able to change our.
Perspective instead of gettingstuck in the what's wrong
mm-hmm.
How do we move forward to changeit?
Right.
In whatever ways, and I, we haveto get inva innovative about it.
Mm-hmm.
They talked a lot about like,kind of like, they talked about
like, um, kind of like nostalgiaof like amusement parks and
(21:15):
mm-hmm.
Disney and kind of like gettinginto these immersive other
worlds.
Pacey (21:19):
Right.
Okay.
Bonnie Violet (21:19):
And really to kind of begin to imagine mm-hmm.
And begin creating.
A new life.
'cause a lot of us, we're notlooking to, we're not looking
for things to go back to wherethey
Pacey (21:29):
were.
Bonnie Violet (21:29):
Right.
We are actually working oncreating a new
Pacey (21:32):
Exactly.
Better world.
Bonnie Violet (21:33):
Yeah.
For more people and so, mm-hmm.
I think sometimes it can be easyfor us, for me to lose sight of
that.
Yeah.
Pacey (21:42):
I think so too.
I mean, especially if it says asdire and all encompassing.
Yeah.
As this, it's like you can't.
You know, look at your phone.
You can't look at a tv.
You can't look at a newspaperwithout seeing something
terrifying.
Mm-hmm.
And that does get exhausting.
Right.
But there are, I mean, there arethese great distractions like
(22:06):
Canyon County Pride.
Mm-hmm.
That was a great distraction.
It was a beautiful event.
Um, but there were a lot ofprotesters there that you had to
walk through and, you know,
Bonnie Violet (22:15):
uh, I, I was.
I, I got, I had to get thereearly Uhhuh, and so I entered to
the rear Uhhuh and then I leftout the rear.
So I never saw a protester.
Oh really?
At all.
Which is so wild'cause Yeah.
'cause it seems like it was abig part.
So I heard somebody talk aboutthe protesters are kind of like
another goof.
Pacey (22:34):
Yeah.
Uhhuh.
They basically were at thefront.
Yeah.
There was a bunch of'em.
And they were wearing, they hadthese stupid signs that said
like.
I am a sinner or Jesus savessinners.
And one dude had like a giantwooden cross and they were
trying to hand out water andlove bomb you.
Yeah.
And then they were just tryingto say, trying to manipulate you
(22:58):
into a dialogue with them sayinglike, Hey, you know, if you are
open to having like a genuine,like authentic in good faith
conversation, come talk andwe're like.
No.
Yeah.
But it was cool because earlierin the day they had a bunch of
volunteers there with like theserainbow umbrellas mm-hmm.
In front of them.
So like they were to block Yeah.
(23:20):
They were blocking them, whichwas cool.
But it's like, that's just partof it at this point.
Yeah.
It wasn't as bad as I thought itwas gonna be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So did you heck hold them atall?
Uh, I didn't actually.
No.
My partner did.
Mm-hmm.
A little bit.
Yeah.
Um, but I'm just so burn outwith, with, it's like the
comment section.
Yeah, I did get one particularlygood one though, Uhhuh.
(23:43):
This, this is where like thecognitive dissonance is just so
strong.
This guy was, you know, comingfor me and I was talking to him
and sharing actual sources andhe is like, uh, well Epstein and
Diddy were big L-G-B-T-Qsupporters.
And I was like the, the Epsteinthat is currently at the heart
(24:06):
of like this huge.
Breakup.
Mm-hmm.
Basically between Trump and Muskand Diddy, who people are like
concerned that Trump is goingto, pardon?
Like Right.
But he's trying to put that onus.
So it's like whenever I think,oh, I can argue with someone, I
think about that comment.
I'm like, there's no arguingwith these fucking people.
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (24:25):
And it, yeah, there's no disconnect.
I heard a lot of people, I'vetalked with a lot of people who
had different.
Experiences specifically withprotesters though, where they, I
think they felt emboldened Yeah.
To have conversations with theseprotesters probably.
And then, and then they werekind of wounded by it.
So I like, um, there was oneperson who was obviously having
(24:48):
some spiritual trauma responseto what was going on.
'cause they had once been on theother side.
They'd been that person.
Okay.
Yeah.
And so they were, um, definitelyin their fields.
And so I held space for themwhile they were.
Pretty messed up at Prideitself.
And then I've heard from peopleafterwards as well.
And I think that's the why.
The thing is so people, I don'tknow, it's so, I know we've
(25:10):
gotten to the point for like youand I, where it's just kind of
like par for the course, butyeah, that's also why it's so, I
mean, that's why they do itbecause it is response.
It can be hurtful, you know?
Pacey (25:21):
Yeah.
And it's important to rememberthat you know, it's best to just
not, and if you don't have thecapacity to, like you.
It's not about having thecapacity to, it's like you
shouldn't have to go throughthat just because someone else
has those opinions and they'retrying to hurt you.
Yeah.
Um, and everyone has differentcapacities for different things
at different times
Bonnie Violet (25:40):
too.
Pacey (25:40):
Exactly.
Yeah.
And that was the
Bonnie Violet (25:41):
thing that I think, um, I, I've also talked
to a lot of people since Pridewho've had different feelings
and where, in some ways wherethey felt less powerful.
And I told them, I was like,where?
Like they left Gay Pride andthen somebody said something to
them and they were like.
Yeah.
Hurt by it.
Right.
And it's just like, well, it,no, it makes a lot of sense
because we go to, when we go tothese pride festivals, we go and
(26:04):
get to live in a world in whichwe get to be free.
Mm-hmm.
And liberative, and that createsa vulnerability and an openness
and an expansiveness.
Mm-hmm.
That just makes us supervulnerable.
Pacey (26:16):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (26:16):
You know, in some ways you'd think it would make
us more powerful and it does inthe long run, but it does open
us up and unless we're able tolike, yeah.
Close back up again in the wayswe need to.
We're gonna be like, just, we'rejust gonna be like welcoming it
in.
Pacey (26:33):
Oh yeah.
And we're
Bonnie Violet (26:34):
also not gonna be as equipped and as I think,
ready to like, cope with it.
And so, you know, I, one of thethings I was telling people, my
friends after Pride too, is justletting them know like, hey,
like you're gonna have.
Probably an emotional hangover.
Yeah.
Like you're gonna probably getin your feels the next couple of
days you're probably gonnaexperience some depression.
Pacey (26:54):
Oh yeah.
Because
Bonnie Violet (26:54):
what goes up must come down.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, and um, I thinksometimes we can get into those
spots and it can put us in a badway, but I think if we can just
recognize that it's part of theprocess.
Pacey (27:06):
Yeah.
Because
Bonnie Violet (27:06):
at the end of the day, we have to go back to
reality.
Exactly.
And that is depressing
Pacey (27:10):
it.
Yeah, it is.
It's called the, uh, inperforming.
They call it what?
Glitter crash.
Bonnie Violet (27:16):
Oh, I've never heard that before.
Yeah.
And I've heard that.
Pacey (27:18):
I hear that like from the performers.
Right.
But also when I was doing adance mm-hmm.
And there was like thiscompetition thing, they, they
warned us like, there's thisthing called glitter crash.
Mm.
What it is.
Like you're in the moment inthis event or whatever, you're
adrenaline is up, you're havinga fucking great time.
And eventually it ends.
(27:40):
Yeah.
And then.
You crash because of all of likethe chemicals in your brain
dumping at the same time, all ofthat.
But like with pride, there's anadded element of.
The knowledge that like, itcould be like this, right?
Life could be like this.
Mm-hmm.
Like you can just walk aroundjust completely who you are and
be safe and be recognized andseen for who you are.
But then as soon as you walkback out those gates, it's back
(28:01):
to reality.
Yeah.
And that feels even worse afteryou've been in something so
positive.
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (28:06):
You know?
Yeah.
Because you know it can bedifferent.
Exactly.
And, and yet you, it's notright.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Um, what I have like somequestions about Canyon County
Pride, I.
One, I think it was, there wasno incident around like HP 2 72
70.
Yeah.
Right.
So that was cool.
There almost was, yeah.
There was like some concernsaround like some performers and
(28:26):
stuff.
But what, what would you say wasyour highlight of Oh geez.
Because we got to be on thestage.
Yeah.
And talk a little bit aboutTransy Boise.
Yeah.
Take some questions from theaudience.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but what kind of stuck out,what was your favorite thing
about Canyon County Pride?
Oh, that's,
Pacey (28:44):
that's tough.
I think I.
I really liked being able to geton stage.
Mm-hmm.
And that was a lot of fun.
But mostly it was just seeingall of the people that I love so
much in one place.
Mm-hmm.
Like I got to run into so manypeople that mean so much to me,
and I got to see them having areally good time, you know?
Yeah.
Like some people that arenormally like.
(29:06):
You know, like poor Nixon,right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's always stressed out aboutwhat's going on because he knows
so much about what's going on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But he was having a greatfucking time.
Yeah.
And like everyone I saw washaving a great time.
Mm-hmm.
And I thought that that wasreally fucking cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (29:19):
So what about you?
Yeah, I think for me too, I waslike, you know, yeah, I got to,
I was on the stage for theinterfaith service and the Trans
Bo moment.
Mm-hmm.
But like, those were just likelittle.
Like blips, it was like going tovisit a booth or something,
right?
Pacey (29:32):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (29:32):
Mm-hmm.
And so like, I thought it wasreally cool that, um, I maybe
didn't go around to all thebooths and I didn't maybe engage
with everyone mm-hmm.
In the ways that I wanted.
But I think the thing that wasmy highlight was, uh, you know,
I had glued those butterfliesall over my mm-hmm.
My body and stuff.
And, uh, when my niece, uh,chose a niece, Adair showed up
when we were on stage.
(29:53):
I got to see her afterwards andI had planned to give her.
Butterflies.
So I had glue ready and I hadbubble fly butterflies.
'cause I knew she'd want, I knewshe'd want them.
Yeah.
And she had this unicorn hornson and the face paint already.
And she, I, I went ahead and Iput a, um, butterfly on her
little finger.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and then she, she mademe wear her unicorn horns.
(30:13):
I saw.
That was so cute.
Which I was just like, oh mygod.
No.
I was like, only you can get meto put these on my head.
Did you get
Pacey (30:18):
a picture of that?
I,
Bonnie Violet (30:20):
I don't know.
There better be a
Pacey (30:21):
picture of that.
There's probably something
Bonnie Violet (30:23):
somewhere, but, um, but yeah, she's a little
ham.
She is.
I love her to death.
She's like, it's so scary.
'cause she so loves me and solooks up to me and it's just
like, oh my god.
Scary.
But it's also like, it's suchlife, it's very life affirming
too.
Yeah.
You know?
Um.
So, yeah, I mean, I would say myhighlight was getting ready to,
(30:45):
getting able to hang out with myniece and, you know, I gotta
spend time with you and Rage.
Oh yeah.
Or you and your,
Pacey (30:51):
it's out of the bag at this point.
They're fine.
You and your person.
Bonnie Violet (30:55):
And, um, Ben and Chris, you know, Adairs parents.
And so it, like, I didn'tnecessarily go around saying if
there are plenty of people Ididn't see, um, that I talked to
afterwards, you know, like, Hey,I, I was like, but I, I just was
kind of like, you know.
I don't know.
I just was kind of in my ownlittle world.
Mm-hmm.
And just kind of, I kept myworld really small that day.
(31:16):
Yeah.
And that felt, it felt good.
Pacey (31:17):
Yeah.
I, I agree.
I kind of did too.
I just, I went and I saw thebooths, um, and I got to see
people that way.
But I mostly just hung out with,like, you, my partner, my
partner's mom was there for alittle bit.
Oh yeah.
Elliot, uh, yeah.
Got to see Eva, which was alwaysa highlight.
Yeah.
It was great to see her too.
And yeah, it was good.
(31:39):
It was really good to see Queercollected, doing well.
Yeah.
Uh, our friends over there, Ilove them so much.
I have to link them.
Me too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it was, we're gonna have toget them on here at some point.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
They're a riot.
Yeah.
Both of them.
Yeah.
And now, because everything hasbalance, right?
There's going to be a coupleprotests mm-hmm.
(32:00):
This week.
Like there's one today.
Today.
Mm-hmm.
That is.
For what's happening inCalifornia right now with ice.
And then there's one on Saturdayfor the 50 51 thing, the No
Kings thing.
Mm-hmm.
Which is essentially the samething.
Bonnie Violet (32:14):
Right.
But, uh, yeah.
So, well, which, and from what Iunderstood, according to Rachel
Maddow, which I don't know, itcame across, it came across my
little dooms scrolling.
Mm-hmm.
And they were talking aboutthere was already 1800 rallies
planned all over the country.
Yeah.
And back when they did the, um.
Take your hands off.
What is it?
Hands off rally.
(32:35):
Mm-hmm.
There was a thousand.
So they're expecting my, thatit's gonna be like even bigger.
And with everything that'shappening, um, happening already
in Los Angeles and Chicago, andSan Francisco and Chicago.
I know.
I saw, um, a.
A mutual on San Francisco thatwas talking about, they, they,
they had a mayor meeting withthe mayor's office.
A whole bunch of differentcommunity leaders were called
(32:57):
into a meeting and they all weretold what's happening in LA is
about to happen here.
Oh my God.
And so they were like, reallyjust trying to encourage people,
and I think this is the mixedfeelings or the mixed emotions
where they talk about beingnonviolent.
Right?
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but what, how, and Iunderstand the being nonviolent
Pacey (33:15):
mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (33:16):
In this sort of response, but what's.
What's nonviolent about peoplebeing like kidnapped and
deported and like harassed andlike, it's just like it's gonna
take a combination of violentand nonviolent.
Well, that violence is wearing abadge and that's why it's okay.
Yeah.
I mean, how did, yeah.
(33:36):
Well, and there's like, nowthere's like national guards
involved at the federalbuildings, which is normal.
Yeah.
Um, there's a lot of talk thoughthat there's more marines coming
in.
Mm-hmm.
Which I know is a lot of likewhat you've talked about.
Actually, our last episode withAsher, one of your, um, my
lines, lines I know was martial
Pacey (33:55):
law.
Martial law.
We're getting so fucking closetoo, because, you know, we have
the.
Within a hundred miles of theborder.
Right.
We basically have that, and asthese are continuing, these
protests are spreading.
Mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (34:10):
It's, it's gonna, and it's federal overreach.
I mean, the governor ofCalifornia is like, no, we don't
want this.
Don't do this.
Like, and that's the whole thingis they're creating Yeah.
They're creating this violence,they're creating this like,
uprising.
Yeah.
Um, and they, that'sintentional.
Pacey (34:27):
Oh yeah.
Well,
Bonnie Violet (34:28):
because law can justify He wants martial law.
Exactly.
Pacey (34:31):
Yeah.
Like he wants martial law.
I even heard something likeabsolutely ridiculous, a quote
from Trump's lawyer.
Uh, someone asked if thepresident had a political rival,
like a, another candidateassassinated, would that be
considered an official act?
And basically, okay.
Mm-hmm.
(34:51):
And his attorney said, yeah.
So everything that's happeningright now is.
Paving the way towards thisdictatorship.
Mm-hmm.
And one thing that is aconsequence of martial law is
you can't have an election ifmartial law is, which is what he
wants as well.
Right?
Yeah.
(35:11):
So I think that it's getting,it's getting really fucking
scary right now.
Mm-hmm.
The rest of the world is reallyafraid for us and.
And
Bonnie Violet (35:21):
if,
Pacey (35:22):
if it spreads, it's
Bonnie Violet (35:23):
not gonna take long before it ends up places
like here.
Yeah.
Well that was the thing that Iremember when we were talking
episodes back about like movingor not moving and things like
that.
And people were talking abouthow the blue states are gonna be
the more dangerous states.
Like those are the states thatare gonna be under attack first.
Yep.
And it was Right.
And us in the red states, we'regonna kind of probably be a
(35:45):
little bit safer.
Mm-hmm.
Because we're the good old boys.
Well, because they think theyalready have us.
Exactly right.
They already have this area, soto speak.
And so I feel like we'redefinitely seeing that more and
more.
My girlfriend, Daphne was like,I saw on her TikTok that she was
like in the middle of somethinghappening in Chicago.
Oh geez.
Yesterday.
And, uh, I know that I, one ofthe things I've been thinking
(36:06):
though is like,'cause we arehaving a, we're having a rally
this afternoon, um, in regardsto ice, and I know recently the
Idaho State Police joinedforces, right?
Or.
Yeah.
Here.
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm anxious.
Yeah.
I'm a little anxious to thinkthat maybe that could begin
(36:27):
happening here.
Yeah.
I As soon as this, like thisafternoon.
Yeah.
And maybe into the weekend withthe King's thing, I think, I
think the King's thing is justgonna bleed
Pacey (36:37):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (36:38):
Into all of this and probably just bring even
more people Oh yeah.
To those areas.
It's gonna be massive on top ofthat.
Yeah.
It's so wild to think, and Ifeel like, you know, in some
ways there's remini of like whenthe Black Lives Matters was
happening.
Yeah.
Because I remember watchingthings happening in Seattle on
TikTok during, when that washappening.
Oh yeah.
And watching the live streams.
(36:59):
Exactly, yeah.
And then now watching the stuffin LA and also Seattle and you
know, like it's happening allover.
It feels like that again.
But also it feels like it's at abigger level.
Pacey (37:10):
It's at a larger level for sure.
I mean.
The, the protest for BLM, likethey got, they got big and
there's vandalism, but not likewhat we're seeing in la No.
Right now with like themthrowing giant rocks over the
overpass Yeah.
To destroy cop cars.
And it's, I'm, I'm really proudof everyone that's doing what
(37:33):
they're doing.
I hope that they're stayingsafe.
Yeah.
But I, my prediction is thatit's gonna, it's gonna spread.
It's, it's catching, you know,because people are finally
starting to see like, oh, we canfight back.
Bonnie Violet (37:45):
Well, and I think people are realizing that this
is, this could be that momentwhen, you know, like when things
shifted in Nazi Germany
Pacey (37:53):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (37:54):
And people did nothing.
Yeah.
Right.
And I think people are feelingthat pressure of like, what am I
going to do?
Pacey (38:01):
Mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (38:02):
You know?
Absolutely.
What am I going to do?
Am I just gonna let thingshappen?
Yeah.
Or am I gonna do something
Pacey (38:10):
leaning into our community even more
Bonnie Violet (38:12):
right now?
Yeah.
And I don't know if ourcommunity is there yet, but
maybe it is.
It's definitely something I'vebeen thinking a lot about.
Pacey (38:21):
Me too.
Yeah.
I just, I want to be able tomake sure that we have resources
for people that are feelingafraid and mm-hmm.
'cause I, I, I didn't think thatI wasn't doing all right, but.
I've been really avoidant andreally just kind of isolating.
(38:43):
And it's weird for me nowbecause like I'm not depressed.
I don't have issues withdepression anymore.
But when I have, when I startacting like this, it, it feels
sort of the same with like allthe things that I'm doing.
And I, I don't realize it untilconversations like this where
I'm like, oh, maybe there issomething going on.
Well,
Bonnie Violet (38:58):
no, and I think, but I think what we're doing and
maybe what our spirits and mindsare doing for us that we may not
be aware of is a lot like what?
Blake talked about when we hadthe conversation with Blake
around, around the power of restand rest is resistance.
And I think a big key is, isthat we better be catching our
rest.
Yeah.
We better be like catching ourmoments when we can.
(39:20):
Mm-hmm.
Because it's not too far off, orwe might not get that same sort
of, um, uh, choice.
Mm-hmm.
That's a good point.
So I think the thing of it is,thank you for that, Blake, is to
really, we need to like rest inthat.
Pacey (39:33):
Mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (39:34):
Um.
For as long as we can.
Yeah, I agree.
And as often as we can.
Yeah.
So we should probably call it, Ithink we're gonna call it, I
know if, was that five hourslater?
Yeah.
No, it's good.
I
Pacey (39:47):
think there's so much going on right now that it's
good to, to just talk about itout loud.
Mm-hmm.
To kind of help it make sense inmy mind.
Bonnie Violet (39:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Are we gonna be out and aboutand maybe.
Streaming some of this stuff orlike, yeah, I don't know.
'cause I'm kind of feeling likeif we would,'cause I'm feeling
like I almost thought today weshould have somebody come on who
could talk about knowing yourrights with the protesting and
things like that, which we'llencourage and we'll push, we'll
post some things on our socialsover the next couple days
(40:19):
mm-hmm.
To kind of help people throughthat Right.
In the best way we can.
But, um,'cause maybe, and nextweek maybe plan to do it.
Pacey (40:27):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (40:27):
But, um.
If we might not have until nextweek before.
Yeah.
It becomes important.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
We
Pacey (40:34):
could put something on our socials.
I'll be at the one tonight andon Saturday I'll be there for a
little bit, but then I have togo outta town.
Okay.
So I'll have to leave aroundone.
Bonnie Violet (40:43):
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Well keep an eye out and alsolike we're just one little.
Group.
Mm-hmm.
There are lots of organizationsand lots of streams on tiktoks
and Instagrams, and you know,that's one thing right now is
there's lots of good informationout there.
Lots of live streams.
Yeah.
To help folks kind of discernand determine how they show up.
But I would say just be smartabout it.
(41:05):
Think about like some worst casescenarios.
Mm-hmm.
And kind of how you're gonnadeal with situations.
Right.
Do you have an exit plan?
Do people know where you're at?
Pacey (41:15):
Right.
Bonnie Violet (41:15):
Don't bring your children.
That's my feeling.
Yeah.
Pacey (41:18):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (41:19):
Um, I'm supposed to watch my niece this
afternoon, evening.
Oh yeah.
And so I'm like, I just don'tthink I'm gonna go.
Pacey (41:25):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (41:25):
Because I wanna, I wanna Yeah.
Keep her safe.
Keep her safe.
Um, but, um, and I kind of feela little bad that I'm not gonna
be there.
Uh, and there's a part of methat doesn't want to be either.
Yeah.
It's, that has a little fear.
Um, but I'm grateful for thosewho are going out.
Any who?
Pacey (41:42):
Yeah.
Alright.
Sounds good.
Be back next week.
All right.
Bye-bye.
Good luck.
Perfect.
Hi everyone.
How's it going?
I'm Bonnie Violet, trans femme,gender queer, spiritual drag
artist, chaplain, and I'm PaceyTrans masc non-binary Mental
Health and recovery
Pacey (00:07):
Advocate,
Bonnie Violet (00:08):
and welcome to Trans Joy Boise, where every
story, laugh and act of joy is astand for our community.
We uplift bold voices, share
Pacey (00:17):
real experiences, and celebrate trans lives thriving.
Bonnie Violet (00:20):
Tune in and connect and spread the joy
because trans joy isunstoppables unstoppable.
Yes.
Awesome.
I know.
It's like we, we skip a coupleof weeks and it's like, yeah, it
does feel a little like, I don'tknow.
It That felt pretty smooth.
Yes.
To me.
Yeah.
Yes.
And I'm feeling awkward.
Oh yeah.
That always comes back, right?
(00:40):
Because I'm always awkwardanyway,
Pacey (00:41):
because I, I don't like being the center of attention.
I hate it.
Um, so anytime I'm, and likewe're looking at a big monitor
of ourselves and that does nothelp.
So
Bonnie Violet (00:53):
it's not the greatest angle either versus
Pacey (00:56):
just like,
Bonnie Violet (00:57):
hi, but
Pacey (00:59):
yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's, uh, yeah, we missed acouple weeks.
I was horrifically ill.
Mm.
I get, I have chronic sinusitisand it's, you know, a
consequence of drug use fromwhen I was younger.
So my sinuses are just fuckedand anything.
Can be in the air and I'll get asinus infection.
So this one was particularlybad.
I had to have two rounds ofantibiotics and now I need to
(01:21):
get the.
The rhinoplasty surgery.
Right.
And that's one that I've beenterrified for over 15 years.
But it's like, it's it's time.
Bonnie Violet (01:29):
Yeah.
It was when you were texting meabout I'm glad, so glad that
you're feeling better.
'cause I know you're feelingawful.
But there was one time when youtexted and you said like, I
guess it's time to have thesurgery.
And I was like, I knew what youwere talking about.
Yeah.
But, and it wasn't quite the Thesurgery.
The surgery, you know, his text.
I added a little oomph to it,but I, I almost sent a joke
(01:50):
about it.
I was like, I just don't thinkit's gonna come across.
Right.
So that's, but yeah.
That's funny.
Oh, thus It's funny now.
Yeah.
I was fucking miserable for overtwo weeks, so Yes.
And I was away most of,
Pacey (02:02):
yeah.
Bonnie Violet (02:02):
The, i the last couple of weeks.
Mm-hmm.
So I got to go to the, hi.
The HIV is not a
Pacey (02:07):
crime,
Bonnie Violet (02:09):
uh, uh, conference, or it's actually a
training academy in Raleigh,North Carolina.
Which was a really coolexperience.
Um, and then I, I was at theHuman Rights Conference and the
National Trans Visibility Marchand World Pride.
Yeah.
So it was like, it was reallycool.
And it was also, it was reallytough.
Pacey (02:29):
Really.
Bonnie Violet (02:29):
It was really, really tough.
You know how, um, it was just alot, you know, a lot of us, you
know, it was kind of cool to bewith folks all over the country.
Um.
And mostly, um, when, when I godo stuff, when we go to trans
stuff or HIV stuff, in otherparts of the, the country, it's
almost all run and led by blackfolks.
Black, black and brown folks.
(02:51):
I love that.
Trans folks.
Yeah.
So it's really, it's reallyawesome and it's really a unique
kind of, um, opportunity I thinkfor, and so I always, I always
love it and I als always learnso much.
Um, and it was also a little,um.
It was affirming as well as itwas kind of disheartening.
Yeah.
In the sense that I foundmyself, whether I was at the
(03:12):
Human Rights Conference or theHIV is not a crime or the trans
visibility March stuff, like alot of our communities are
struggling.
Yeah.
There's a lot of difficulty in,in collaboration in working with
their local partners.
Um, okay.
Yeah.
And, uh, and they're really, um,I.
(03:34):
You can tell people are reallyup in arms about it.
Like I was in one con, oneconversation where the
instructor actually left
Pacey (03:41):
really?
Bonnie Violet (03:41):
And we just kind of picked it up from there
because people were just sharingwhat their experience was as
being like a translator rightnow.
Pacey (03:49):
Mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (03:50):
And you couldn't help but your experience kind of
like.
Um, impact other people in theroom.
So you might say something like,well, I lost my job and this and
that, or it feels like only the,the pretty trans girls get the
work, or, you know, things likethat.
And then, you know, the prettytrans girls in the room are
like, what the fuck?
(04:10):
Like, yeah, I've worked hard toget here too.
And then there's like, sothere's this, um, and, and I
think everyone, we're allearnestly trying to move.
At it, you know, and then youhave trans men who are very
regular, rarely even a part ofthe conversation.
Pacey (04:25):
Mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (04:25):
Uh, which is a whole nother issue.
And, and one of the things thatin HIV we're starting to see a
lot more HIV with trans men aswell.
Really?
And so they've always kind ofbeen like in the background of a
lot of the trans conversations.
I mean, you have protect thedolls, right?
Of
Pacey (04:41):
course.
Yeah.
You know, I did see that, likean alternative for that, like
for the, the men would be.
Uh, protect the Kens.
Bonnie Violet (04:47):
The Kens.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, I, yeah, yeah.
I mean, I've heard them refer toas like, action figures or
whatever, but you know, that's,I, I don't know.
Um, but it was, so, it wasreally, but in a lot of ways
that was affirming because Ifeel like that's a lot of the
challenges that we've had here.
Uh, there are a lot of us, um,in, in Idaho in particular.
(05:08):
I think Idaho is reallyresponding well.
To what is happening and Ohyeah.
People are coming to the frontlines from all over and that has
been really difficult, I think,for a lot of us to figure out
our place.
I know we've, we've even beenchallenged at times with feeling
like either getting our toesstepped on or unsure of where we
(05:30):
fit or you know, just a lot ofdifferent kinds of challenges,
whether it's with other transand non-binary folks, or it's,
it's typically usually withcommunities that are like.
Shared like broader L-G-B-T-Qcommunities than like other
trans and non-binarycommunities.
But, um, so, and it's like, andI think we're all, um, just kind
(05:51):
of challenged by it.
I don't think anyone has anymal-intent.
Anyone is, um, not wanting tocollaborate and work well with
one another.
'cause I feel like I have falleninto that realm.
Probably just as much, if notworse, which has been really
challenging for me.
'cause I feel like I've alwaysprided myself and I've always
(06:11):
been one who's been able to kindof like be that in between and
like be able to work with peoplethat other people don't wanna
work with in an authentic andreal way.
And it always had been, but I'vebeen finding myself, getting my
feelings hurt a lot more.
Um, and then that makes itdifficult for me to kind of move
forward in a lot of differentrelationships.
(06:32):
And I felt that.
Locally, but even on a nationallevel.
Yeah.
You know, a national level.
The conversation about what'shappening is so different.
There's a lot more optimism andthere's a lot more spaces for
power, which, which Iunderstand, but in doing that
they kind of like don't for,they forget about us.
And so I find myself a lot oftimes going, but what about me
(06:54):
or what about us?
You know?
Pacey (06:55):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (06:56):
And I did have an opportunity at the human rights
conference.
To shake things up a little bit.
Oh, good.
So I, I was a bit of adisruptor, which is not usually
my mm-hmm.
Thing, but I did get up thereand I kind of called some of the
speakers out and was like, Ilove that, but you know, what
about places like Idaho?
Pacey (07:13):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (07:13):
You know, and what about this?
And explaining our stuff.
And I just kind of felt liketalked down to
Pacey (07:19):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (07:20):
Like it was very patronizing and condescending
and I was like, with all duerespect, like, I get that.
Yeah.
Like this is not about that.
Right.
This is about the bigger thing.
And really for us, I think it'slike how can,'cause, because we
are doing the work here.
Mm-hmm.
And I believe that we're gonnahave the utmost success possible
Pacey (07:37):
mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (07:38):
In Idaho because there are so many people coming
together.
However,
Pacey (07:41):
yeah.
Bonnie Violet (07:42):
I think it takes more than, than us here.
Yeah.
To have a bigger impact for ushere as well as, you know,
beyond.
And, and I, I think some way,somehow we need to be invited to
those tables.
We need to be in theconversations which we are
doing.
Yeah.
Um, a little bit more,especially with like the A CLU
Pacey (08:03):
mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (08:04):
And that sort of thing.
But, um, sorry, I feel like Italked a lot, but Oh, that's
okay.
It was, I haven't reallyprocessed
Pacey (08:10):
Yeah.
The whole thing.
No, it sounds, um, it soundslike a lot.
Yeah.
And I think that you'reabsolutely right.
Like we need to be sitting atthose tables and we are being
invited to some of them.
Mm-hmm.
But the rest, like, we're gonnahave to just force our way into,
Bonnie Violet (08:24):
well, and sometimes when we do go to those
tables, are we really.
Pacey (08:27):
Yeah, right, exactly.
Bonnie Violet (08:29):
Because there's kind of that condescending like
mm-hmm.
Oh, isn't it cute?
Idaho's in the room.
Pacey (08:35):
Yeah.
But I think that that's, God,that's so fucking frustrating
when I.
It's like they don't know.
It's like I think that theirmentality is fucking cute.
Like, oh, that's so cute.
You think this isn't a big deal?
Oh, that's so cute.
You think that this isn't gonnahappen to you.
That's so cute.
Right.
You don't have to worry about,you know, catching criminal
(08:56):
charges for your body.
That's fucking adorable.
In Idaho, we know what'sactually happening.
Mm-hmm.
And what is truly at stake, somaybe you should get on our
level.
And that was kind of the vibethat I left DC with.
Mm-hmm.
When we went to that event was.
Everyone was sort of in awe ofhow much I Idaho has going right
now mm-hmm.
Uh, to fight thisadministration.
(09:17):
And it was disheartening to mebecause we are there out of
necessity.
Right.
Like we have to be at that levelright now.
And if everyone else, like thosecute people at the table that
are talking down to you couldget on our level.
Mm-hmm.
We would be a stronger unifiedfront.
Bonnie Violet (09:32):
Yeah.
And
Pacey (09:32):
like I realize that we're there because of necessity and
they're not yet.
But it's yet,
Bonnie Violet (09:38):
right.
Well, we are only there.
Like I was only at the humanrights conference because I was,
happened to like be able tosneak into somebody's hotel room
and stay with them, and then Iwas able to sneak in to get a
free
Pacey (09:49):
mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
Bonnie Violet (09:50):
Like I was able to sneak around and then I got
like a cheap way to get, youknow what I mean?
Like mm-hmm.
It wasn't like, and, and that isstill privilege, like that was
still a lot of privilege that Iwas able to get in the room, but
that was the only reason Iwasn't even there.
But it was really affirmingbecause when I stood up and I
said that people.
Were like, yeah, you were right.
Like I, people encourage me,including people like Raquel
(10:11):
Willis, which was like just, itwas just affirming because I
think sometimes it can feellike, honestly I felt like after
I said what I said, I almostfelt like shame about it because
there was kind of thisvulnerability, I think, and this
weakness that like I put outthere and then it wasn't really
met well.
Pacey (10:30):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (10:31):
Um, and you know, it's like on a.
A platform at this large con,you know what I mean?
Of course.
Like there's a lot of layers toit.
So I don't really hold, I don'twanna like villainize these
people.
Um, but I think just in general,like I, I'm just one person.
There's a lot of people aroundthe country that's having a
similar experience and there's alot of people that national
level that might come acrosswith that attitude or
(10:53):
perspective unintentionally.
Yeah.
Um.
Uh, so yeah, it's just, it'sjust really challenging.
And then I think kind ofleading, I know we wanted to
kind of lead into more localstuff, but I remember when we
were talking about the, um, Ithink we were talking about
getting to go to DC mm-hmm.
Pacey (11:10):
And
Bonnie Violet (11:11):
you were talking about how like it was rainbows
and like, it was a really cool,like, uh, experience for you.
Right.
A lot of representation.
Mm-hmm.
And so I got to be in DC forWorld Pride for that, which,
there was that excitement, butthen.
I left before the parade in theactual trans march.
Mm-hmm.
'cause I had to get back here intime for Ken County Pride and
Exotica and stuff.
(11:32):
But, um, the, the last nightthat I was there, the police was
shutting everything down.
What?
Yeah.
So, I don't know if you saw thisUhuh, but, um, and it was like
all over some news things, butbasically the, the mayor and the
And Trump.
Yeah.
And folks were trying to stop.
Gay pride, world pride.
(11:52):
What?
And so as it was, a lot ofpeople didn't travel because
they were trans, because theywere like, you know what I mean?
Like, yeah.
It shouldn't have been here inthe first place.
There were a lot of folks, butit was kind of like planned so
long ago.
Mm-hmm.
And then things happened andyeah.
I'm surprised that it stillhappened, to be honest with you.
Pacey (12:06):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (12:07):
Um, and so, but the interesting thing was when I
was there, I think being part ofthe L-G-B-T-Q community and
stuff, I was just like, oh,they're closing down the,
they're closing down the roo theroad so that we can have a.
Have block parties.
Right.
Like, because that's'cause we'regonna be taking up a whole lot
of space.
Right.
And that was my perception thatwe were having.
So when I left DC I didn't evenhave any perception that there
(12:28):
was some sort of like,oppression on us or some, like,
we were just doing world prideanyway.
You know what I mean?
And so it, it, it made me wonderhow much of like, I, I started
to question whether that wasgood information.
Pacey (12:45):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (12:45):
You know, was Trump trying to, I.
Yeah.
Did they in the middle?
Did they?
You know, like, and it'sprobably true.
And yeah, I don't know.
And so I think that's one of thethings that's been really
interesting.
Uh, I don't know.
I just thought that was reallyinteresting coming back to here,
even after having thatexperience and thinking of the
(13:05):
idea that they're even trying toshut down dc.
But then, yeah, we didn't care.
Yeah, we did what we were doinganyway.
Well, at this point, we're usedto it.
I mean, and we've always usedit.
I mean, that's all about being,it was a riot.
It was a riot.
It was a protest.
Mm-hmm.
It always has been.
I know it's felt like we've beenable to like, yeah, it not be,
but, but you know, pride isstill a big deal here in places
(13:29):
like here, or even smallerplaces in Idaho.
Absolutely.
You know, so I think dependingon where you're at, it might not
seem as that much of a protestor a proclamation, but
Pacey (13:38):
it's very,
Bonnie Violet (13:39):
like,
Pacey (13:41):
it's different now.
I think.
Well, this year it's different,but I think like the last five,
10 years, pride has become likethis corporate almost.
I, I don't know.
Everyone has their, theirrainbow shit out in June and
then it's gone in July and it'sjust this giant party and
(14:04):
everyone gets really fucked upand, and there's music and
dancing and, and that's it.
But.
We're starting to go back tothe, you know, the memory.
Like this was a riot.
Uhhuh, it was a protest.
And it will continue to bebecause we have to fight still.
Mm-hmm.
And I think that I getfrustrated with some people that
(14:27):
are still very much just like,no, I just wanna party.
It's like, yeah, like you can goto pride and have a good time
and.
Fucking party, right?
Mm-hmm.
But we also need you to beshowing up in other ways where
it really matters.
Like, we need you at protest.
We need you at hearings.
Right?
Right.
And I think that now isn't thetime to just focus on like the
(14:49):
happy, fun part of it.
Like, yeah, we need that'causewe need a really good
distraction from all thisbullshit that's
Bonnie Violet (14:54):
happening, but it needs to be booked.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and I think that the thingthat's been interesting is, is
now I think even these, likethese folks that have been able
to kind of rest in themainstream mm-hmm.
Of being L-G-B-T-Q.
Now there are pride festivalsare getting impacted.
Like I know there's a lot ofcorporate sponsors that are
pulling out, or at least.
(15:15):
Doing a lot less than they weredoing once before, which I know
has caused, um, pride to feel alittle slighted in some ways.
Mm-hmm.
Which they should.
I also find it interesting thatI think there's been like three
pop stars that have, are nolonger queer or Oh very, no
longer appear relationships.
Exactly.
Like Fletcher Fletcher, I thinkBilly Eilish and Jojo.
Pacey (15:38):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (15:38):
Heard, I heard about that.
They recently have like.
Like, whatever.
And I, I feel like that's kindof interesting and that also
kind of makes me feel like I, Iguess I can see why then people
would be thinking that, likebeing queer is a trend or
something.
Yeah.
When the pop stars are now nolonger queer switching sides.
Yeah.
Well, some of them, and some ofthem are just in like straight
(16:02):
passing relationships.
Yeah.
And like, they're, they're bi,you
Pacey (16:06):
know?
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (16:07):
And where we always were.
Yeah.
So.
Pacey (16:10):
It's
Bonnie Violet (16:12):
tricky.
And sexuality can, likesexuality fluctuates.
Like I, I don't ever wanna
Pacey (16:17):
mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (16:17):
Like, I don't, I just find it interesting that
there's all this stuff kind ofhappening.
Yeah.
At the same time, it's,
Pacey (16:26):
it's just such a precarious time right now.
I feel like, like we weretalking about this earlier.
Mm-hmm.
Even if I'm feeling all right,you know, like I'm having a
great day, I'm feeling relaxed,like my nervous system.
Is the opposite.
Like I am ready internally toeither fight or run.
I feel just because mysubconscious knows that there's
(16:50):
all this dangerous stuffhappening around us in this
country, and I can't truly relaxbecause I feel like I'm just
constantly keyed up.
Yeah, and that bleeds into everyaspect of life, right?
Mm-hmm.
Because I'll be like, well, whyam I not enjoying this as much?
Or why am I irritable withpeople?
Or it's like, because I am.
Distressed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
At a very deep, fundamentallevel.
(17:12):
Mm-hmm.
And I feel like I've been likethat since November.
Bonnie Violet (17:16):
Yeah.
Pacey (17:17):
And I feel like that's gonna, I mean, the burnout is
starting to hit me from that.
Bonnie Violet (17:21):
Yeah.
Which I think is wild too,because I also think, I know
it's a lot for us to kind oflike do this podcast or you
know, do certain things and yetI find mm-hmm.
That it helps me.
Oh yeah.
Cope with a lot of that.
Pacey (17:36):
Mm-hmm.
That
Bonnie Violet (17:36):
at least is directly related to like being
trans Yeah.
In the world.
Mm-hmm.
Pacey (17:42):
Right.
Bonnie Violet (17:42):
So I think I find it as a way of kind of empower.
I don't know.
It, it helps in some ways.
I think it helps me feel like Ihave a little bit of control in
like what's
Pacey (17:52):
going
Bonnie Violet (17:53):
down.
Pacey (17:53):
Yeah.
No, I think so too.
And just being able to talkabout it with someone who, who
understands or like just withtrans people in general, like I
don't have to.
Explain why I feel certain waysabout certain situations.
Mm-hmm.
Or, you know, justify my anxietyor fear.
Uh,'cause that is still so oldwhen people are like, I still
(18:14):
get people, oh my God, on myInstagram, I got this girl
saying, uh, well, trans peopledon't.
Like they have the same rightsas cis people.
Like I don't see what you'reupset about.
So I of course like couldn't letthat go.
So I wrote this really longresponse mm-hmm.
Listing like every fucking rightthat we were getting taken away,
all these horrible things.
(18:35):
And I was just like, how couldwe be this far in this?
And you're still that doubt.
And you
Bonnie Violet (18:39):
don't, yeah.
Yeah.
But there's obviously like somedisconnects and there's obvious,
like I think one of the thingsthat we were talking about on
the national.
Level with folks is that, and,and I, and I feel this too, it's
just like we, people are havinga really hard time seeing past
their own struggle.
Yeah.
To see the struggle of others.
(18:59):
Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
So I think the challenge is, isa lot of those folks are
struggling in their own right?
Oh yeah.
Just in different ways.
Like it might not be aroundthere.
Their gender though, probably.
Pacey (19:10):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (19:11):
Women probably could, yeah.
Right.
Say they're experiencing stuffdirectly around that, but they
might not be like, equating itto that.
Yeah.
And are thinking about moreeconomics or, um, job or mm-hmm.
Whatever sort of, um, thingsthat, that are causing them
stress in their life right now.
Yeah.
And I think that's, I mean, I,that's the big, that's why like,
(19:33):
that's what Trump and Albanwant.
Yeah.
They want us to be be just likeso divided.
Yeah.
Because we're, we're likestressed out.
We're full of anxious anxiety,we're full of fear.
Mm-hmm.
Like all those sorts of things.
I was listening to a podcastearlier with Tourmaline, who is
an author, author about a recentbook about Marsha p Johnson's
(19:54):
life and mm-hmm.
And it kind of goes throughlike, who Marsha p Johnson
really was kind of like thegood, the bad, the ugly, so to
speak, in the sense of like thehuman
Pacey (20:03):
right.
Yeah.
Because, you
Bonnie Violet (20:04):
know, she's a saint and.
All those sort of things in alot of ways to our community.
But at the end of the day, shewas, you know, she was not
perfect and she, she had majorin middle mental illness.
Mm-hmm.
She was homeless at times.
She was, and yet she was thislike beacon.
Mm-hmm.
Um, for so many people.
And so kind of understanding thecomplexities of that.
(20:24):
But one of the things that shewas saying, she had mentioned
that, um, that like.
The thing about like these timesis like when we're presented
with a problem, which is what'shappening right now, it's like
we have a problem, we have aconflict.
Mm-hmm.
We have to kind of tap intothat.
Like we have to start to liveinto the solution.
Mm-hmm.
And not focus on the, the, the,the, the like problem.
(20:47):
Mm-hmm.
So like the problem is presentednow let's fix it or now let's
work on it.
Pacey (20:52):
Mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (20:53):
Um, and that can be a difficult thing to kind of
be able to change our.
Perspective instead of gettingstuck in the what's wrong
mm-hmm.
How do we move forward to changeit?
Right.
In whatever ways, and I, we haveto get inva innovative about it.
Mm-hmm.
They talked a lot about like,kind of like, they talked about
like, um, kind of like nostalgiaof like amusement parks and
(21:15):
mm-hmm.
Disney and kind of like gettinginto these immersive other
worlds.
Pacey (21:19):
Right.
Okay.
Bonnie Violet (21:19):
And really to kind of begin to imagine mm-hmm.
And begin creating.
A new life.
'cause a lot of us, we're notlooking to, we're not looking
for things to go back to wherethey
Pacey (21:29):
were.
Bonnie Violet (21:29):
Right.
We are actually working oncreating a new
Pacey (21:32):
Exactly.
Better world.
Bonnie Violet (21:33):
Yeah.
For more people and so, mm-hmm.
I think sometimes it can be easyfor us, for me to lose sight of
that.
Yeah.
Pacey (21:42):
I think so too.
I mean, especially if it says asdire and all encompassing.
Yeah.
As this, it's like you can't.
You know, look at your phone.
You can't look at a tv.
You can't look at a newspaperwithout seeing something
terrifying.
Mm-hmm.
And that does get exhausting.
Right.
But there are, I mean, there arethese great distractions like
(22:06):
Canyon County Pride.
Mm-hmm.
That was a great distraction.
It was a beautiful event.
Um, but there were a lot ofprotesters there that you had to
walk through and, you know,
Bonnie Violet (22:15):
uh, I, I was.
I, I got, I had to get thereearly Uhhuh, and so I entered to
the rear Uhhuh and then I leftout the rear.
So I never saw a protester.
Oh really?
At all.
Which is so wild'cause Yeah.
'cause it seems like it was abig part.
So I heard somebody talk aboutthe protesters are kind of like
another goof.
Pacey (22:34):
Yeah.
Uhhuh.
They basically were at thefront.
Yeah.
There was a bunch of'em.
And they were wearing, they hadthese stupid signs that said
like.
I am a sinner or Jesus savessinners.
And one dude had like a giantwooden cross and they were
trying to hand out water andlove bomb you.
Yeah.
And then they were just tryingto say, trying to manipulate you
(22:58):
into a dialogue with them sayinglike, Hey, you know, if you are
open to having like a genuine,like authentic in good faith
conversation, come talk andwe're like.
No.
Yeah.
But it was cool because earlierin the day they had a bunch of
volunteers there with like theserainbow umbrellas mm-hmm.
In front of them.
So like they were to block Yeah.
(23:20):
They were blocking them, whichwas cool.
But it's like, that's just partof it at this point.
Yeah.
It wasn't as bad as I thought itwas gonna be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So did you heck hold them atall?
Uh, I didn't actually.
No.
My partner did.
Mm-hmm.
A little bit.
Yeah.
Um, but I'm just so burn outwith, with, it's like the
comment section.
Yeah, I did get one particularlygood one though, Uhhuh.
(23:43):
This, this is where like thecognitive dissonance is just so
strong.
This guy was, you know, comingfor me and I was talking to him
and sharing actual sources andhe is like, uh, well Epstein and
Diddy were big L-G-B-T-Qsupporters.
And I was like the, the Epsteinthat is currently at the heart
(24:06):
of like this huge.
Breakup.
Mm-hmm.
Basically between Trump and Muskand Diddy, who people are like
concerned that Trump is goingto, pardon?
Like Right.
But he's trying to put that onus.
So it's like whenever I think,oh, I can argue with someone, I
think about that comment.
I'm like, there's no arguingwith these fucking people.
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (24:25):
And it, yeah, there's no disconnect.
I heard a lot of people, I'vetalked with a lot of people who
had different.
Experiences specifically withprotesters though, where they, I
think they felt emboldened Yeah.
To have conversations with theseprotesters probably.
And then, and then they werekind of wounded by it.
So I like, um, there was oneperson who was obviously having
(24:48):
some spiritual trauma responseto what was going on.
'cause they had once been on theother side.
They'd been that person.
Okay.
Yeah.
And so they were, um, definitelyin their fields.
And so I held space for themwhile they were.
Pretty messed up at Prideitself.
And then I've heard from peopleafterwards as well.
And I think that's the why.
The thing is so people, I don'tknow, it's so, I know we've
(25:10):
gotten to the point for like youand I, where it's just kind of
like par for the course, butyeah, that's also why it's so, I
mean, that's why they do itbecause it is response.
It can be hurtful, you know?
Pacey (25:21):
Yeah.
And it's important to rememberthat you know, it's best to just
not, and if you don't have thecapacity to, like you.
It's not about having thecapacity to, it's like you
shouldn't have to go throughthat just because someone else
has those opinions and they'retrying to hurt you.
Yeah.
Um, and everyone has differentcapacities for different things
at different times
Bonnie Violet (25:40):
too.
Pacey (25:40):
Exactly.
Yeah.
And that was the
Bonnie Violet (25:41):
thing that I think, um, I, I've also talked
to a lot of people since Pridewho've had different feelings
and where, in some ways wherethey felt less powerful.
And I told them, I was like,where?
Like they left Gay Pride andthen somebody said something to
them and they were like.
Yeah.
Hurt by it.
Right.
And it's just like, well, it,no, it makes a lot of sense
because we go to, when we go tothese pride festivals, we go and
(26:04):
get to live in a world in whichwe get to be free.
Mm-hmm.
And liberative, and that createsa vulnerability and an openness
and an expansiveness.
Mm-hmm.
That just makes us supervulnerable.
Pacey (26:16):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (26:16):
You know, in some ways you'd think it would make
us more powerful and it does inthe long run, but it does open
us up and unless we're able tolike, yeah.
Close back up again in the wayswe need to.
We're gonna be like, just, we'rejust gonna be like welcoming it
in.
Pacey (26:33):
Oh yeah.
And we're
Bonnie Violet (26:34):
also not gonna be as equipped and as I think,
ready to like, cope with it.
And so, you know, I, one of thethings I was telling people, my
friends after Pride too, is justletting them know like, hey,
like you're gonna have.
Probably an emotional hangover.
Yeah.
Like you're gonna probably getin your feels the next couple of
days you're probably gonnaexperience some depression.
Pacey (26:54):
Oh yeah.
Because
Bonnie Violet (26:54):
what goes up must come down.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, and um, I thinksometimes we can get into those
spots and it can put us in a badway, but I think if we can just
recognize that it's part of theprocess.
Pacey (27:06):
Yeah.
Because
Bonnie Violet (27:06):
at the end of the day, we have to go back to
reality.
Exactly.
And that is depressing
Pacey (27:10):
it.
Yeah, it is.
It's called the, uh, inperforming.
They call it what?
Glitter crash.
Bonnie Violet (27:16):
Oh, I've never heard that before.
Yeah.
And I've heard that.
Pacey (27:18):
I hear that like from the performers.
Right.
But also when I was doing adance mm-hmm.
And there was like thiscompetition thing, they, they
warned us like, there's thisthing called glitter crash.
Mm.
What it is.
Like you're in the moment inthis event or whatever, you're
adrenaline is up, you're havinga fucking great time.
And eventually it ends.
(27:40):
Yeah.
And then.
You crash because of all of likethe chemicals in your brain
dumping at the same time, all ofthat.
But like with pride, there's anadded element of.
The knowledge that like, itcould be like this, right?
Life could be like this.
Mm-hmm.
Like you can just walk aroundjust completely who you are and
be safe and be recognized andseen for who you are.
But then as soon as you walkback out those gates, it's back
(28:01):
to reality.
Yeah.
And that feels even worse afteryou've been in something so
positive.
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (28:06):
You know?
Yeah.
Because you know it can bedifferent.
Exactly.
And, and yet you, it's notright.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Um, what I have like somequestions about Canyon County
Pride, I.
One, I think it was, there wasno incident around like HP 2 72
70.
Yeah.
Right.
So that was cool.
There almost was, yeah.
There was like some concernsaround like some performers and
(28:26):
stuff.
But what, what would you say wasyour highlight of Oh geez.
Because we got to be on thestage.
Yeah.
And talk a little bit aboutTransy Boise.
Yeah.
Take some questions from theaudience.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but what kind of stuck out,what was your favorite thing
about Canyon County Pride?
Oh, that's,
Pacey (28:44):
that's tough.
I think I.
I really liked being able to geton stage.
Mm-hmm.
And that was a lot of fun.
But mostly it was just seeingall of the people that I love so
much in one place.
Mm-hmm.
Like I got to run into so manypeople that mean so much to me,
and I got to see them having areally good time, you know?
Yeah.
Like some people that arenormally like.
(29:06):
You know, like poor Nixon,right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's always stressed out aboutwhat's going on because he knows
so much about what's going on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But he was having a greatfucking time.
Yeah.
And like everyone I saw washaving a great time.
Mm-hmm.
And I thought that that wasreally fucking cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (29:19):
So what about you?
Yeah, I think for me too, I waslike, you know, yeah, I got to,
I was on the stage for theinterfaith service and the Trans
Bo moment.
Mm-hmm.
But like, those were just likelittle.
Like blips, it was like going tovisit a booth or something,
right?
Pacey (29:32):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (29:32):
Mm-hmm.
And so like, I thought it wasreally cool that, um, I maybe
didn't go around to all thebooths and I didn't maybe engage
with everyone mm-hmm.
In the ways that I wanted.
But I think the thing that wasmy highlight was, uh, you know,
I had glued those butterfliesall over my mm-hmm.
My body and stuff.
And, uh, when my niece, uh,chose a niece, Adair showed up
when we were on stage.
(29:53):
I got to see her afterwards andI had planned to give her.
Butterflies.
So I had glue ready and I hadbubble fly butterflies.
'cause I knew she'd want, I knewshe'd want them.
Yeah.
And she had this unicorn hornson and the face paint already.
And she, I, I went ahead and Iput a, um, butterfly on her
little finger.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and then she, she mademe wear her unicorn horns.
(30:13):
I saw.
That was so cute.
Which I was just like, oh mygod.
No.
I was like, only you can get meto put these on my head.
Did you get
Pacey (30:18):
a picture of that?
I,
Bonnie Violet (30:20):
I don't know.
There better be a
Pacey (30:21):
picture of that.
There's probably something
Bonnie Violet (30:23):
somewhere, but, um, but yeah, she's a little
ham.
She is.
I love her to death.
She's like, it's so scary.
'cause she so loves me and solooks up to me and it's just
like, oh my god.
Scary.
But it's also like, it's suchlife, it's very life affirming
too.
Yeah.
You know?
Um.
So, yeah, I mean, I would say myhighlight was getting ready to,
(30:45):
getting able to hang out with myniece and, you know, I gotta
spend time with you and Rage.
Oh yeah.
Or you and your,
Pacey (30:51):
it's out of the bag at this point.
They're fine.
You and your person.
Bonnie Violet (30:55):
And, um, Ben and Chris, you know, Adairs parents.
And so it, like, I didn'tnecessarily go around saying if
there are plenty of people Ididn't see, um, that I talked to
afterwards, you know, like, Hey,I, I was like, but I, I just was
kind of like, you know.
I don't know.
I just was kind of in my ownlittle world.
Mm-hmm.
And just kind of, I kept myworld really small that day.
(31:16):
Yeah.
And that felt, it felt good.
Pacey (31:17):
Yeah.
I, I agree.
I kind of did too.
I just, I went and I saw thebooths, um, and I got to see
people that way.
But I mostly just hung out with,like, you, my partner, my
partner's mom was there for alittle bit.
Oh yeah.
Elliot, uh, yeah.
Got to see Eva, which was alwaysa highlight.
Yeah.
It was great to see her too.
And yeah, it was good.
(31:39):
It was really good to see Queercollected, doing well.
Yeah.
Uh, our friends over there, Ilove them so much.
I have to link them.
Me too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it was, we're gonna have toget them on here at some point.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
They're a riot.
Yeah.
Both of them.
Yeah.
And now, because everything hasbalance, right?
There's going to be a coupleprotests mm-hmm.
(32:00):
This week.
Like there's one today.
Today.
Mm-hmm.
That is.
For what's happening inCalifornia right now with ice.
And then there's one on Saturdayfor the 50 51 thing, the No
Kings thing.
Mm-hmm.
Which is essentially the samething.
Bonnie Violet (32:14):
Right.
But, uh, yeah.
So, well, which, and from what Iunderstood, according to Rachel
Maddow, which I don't know, itcame across, it came across my
little dooms scrolling.
Mm-hmm.
And they were talking aboutthere was already 1800 rallies
planned all over the country.
Yeah.
And back when they did the, um.
Take your hands off.
What is it?
Hands off rally.
(32:35):
Mm-hmm.
There was a thousand.
So they're expecting my, thatit's gonna be like even bigger.
And with everything that'shappening, um, happening already
in Los Angeles and Chicago, andSan Francisco and Chicago.
I know.
I saw, um, a.
A mutual on San Francisco thatwas talking about, they, they,
they had a mayor meeting withthe mayor's office.
A whole bunch of differentcommunity leaders were called
(32:57):
into a meeting and they all weretold what's happening in LA is
about to happen here.
Oh my God.
And so they were like, reallyjust trying to encourage people,
and I think this is the mixedfeelings or the mixed emotions
where they talk about beingnonviolent.
Right?
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but what, how, and Iunderstand the being nonviolent
Pacey (33:15):
mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (33:16):
In this sort of response, but what's.
What's nonviolent about peoplebeing like kidnapped and
deported and like harassed andlike, it's just like it's gonna
take a combination of violentand nonviolent.
Well, that violence is wearing abadge and that's why it's okay.
Yeah.
I mean, how did, yeah.
(33:36):
Well, and there's like, nowthere's like national guards
involved at the federalbuildings, which is normal.
Yeah.
Um, there's a lot of talk thoughthat there's more marines coming
in.
Mm-hmm.
Which I know is a lot of likewhat you've talked about.
Actually, our last episode withAsher, one of your, um, my
lines, lines I know was martial
Pacey (33:55):
law.
Martial law.
We're getting so fucking closetoo, because, you know, we have
the.
Within a hundred miles of theborder.
Right.
We basically have that, and asthese are continuing, these
protests are spreading.
Mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (34:10):
It's, it's gonna, and it's federal overreach.
I mean, the governor ofCalifornia is like, no, we don't
want this.
Don't do this.
Like, and that's the whole thingis they're creating Yeah.
They're creating this violence,they're creating this like,
uprising.
Yeah.
Um, and they, that'sintentional.
Pacey (34:27):
Oh yeah.
Well,
Bonnie Violet (34:28):
because law can justify He wants martial law.
Exactly.
Pacey (34:31):
Yeah.
Like he wants martial law.
I even heard something likeabsolutely ridiculous, a quote
from Trump's lawyer.
Uh, someone asked if thepresident had a political rival,
like a, another candidateassassinated, would that be
considered an official act?
And basically, okay.
Mm-hmm.
(34:51):
And his attorney said, yeah.
So everything that's happeningright now is.
Paving the way towards thisdictatorship.
Mm-hmm.
And one thing that is aconsequence of martial law is
you can't have an election ifmartial law is, which is what he
wants as well.
Right?
Yeah.
(35:11):
So I think that it's getting,it's getting really fucking
scary right now.
Mm-hmm.
The rest of the world is reallyafraid for us and.
And
Bonnie Violet (35:21):
if,
Pacey (35:22):
if it spreads, it's
Bonnie Violet (35:23):
not gonna take long before it ends up places
like here.
Yeah.
Well that was the thing that Iremember when we were talking
episodes back about like movingor not moving and things like
that.
And people were talking abouthow the blue states are gonna be
the more dangerous states.
Like those are the states thatare gonna be under attack first.
Yep.
And it was Right.
And us in the red states, we'regonna kind of probably be a
(35:45):
little bit safer.
Mm-hmm.
Because we're the good old boys.
Well, because they think theyalready have us.
Exactly right.
They already have this area, soto speak.
And so I feel like we'redefinitely seeing that more and
more.
My girlfriend, Daphne was like,I saw on her TikTok that she was
like in the middle of somethinghappening in Chicago.
Oh geez.
Yesterday.
And, uh, I know that I, one ofthe things I've been thinking
(36:06):
though is like,'cause we arehaving a, we're having a rally
this afternoon, um, in regardsto ice, and I know recently the
Idaho State Police joinedforces, right?
Or.
Yeah.
Here.
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm anxious.
Yeah.
I'm a little anxious to thinkthat maybe that could begin
(36:27):
happening here.
Yeah.
I As soon as this, like thisafternoon.
Yeah.
And maybe into the weekend withthe King's thing, I think, I
think the King's thing is justgonna bleed
Pacey (36:37):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (36:38):
Into all of this and probably just bring even
more people Oh yeah.
To those areas.
It's gonna be massive on top ofthat.
Yeah.
It's so wild to think, and Ifeel like, you know, in some
ways there's remini of like whenthe Black Lives Matters was
happening.
Yeah.
Because I remember watchingthings happening in Seattle on
TikTok during, when that washappening.
Oh yeah.
And watching the live streams.
(36:59):
Exactly, yeah.
And then now watching the stuffin LA and also Seattle and you
know, like it's happening allover.
It feels like that again.
But also it feels like it's at abigger level.
Pacey (37:10):
It's at a larger level for sure.
I mean.
The, the protest for BLM, likethey got, they got big and
there's vandalism, but not likewhat we're seeing in la No.
Right now with like themthrowing giant rocks over the
overpass Yeah.
To destroy cop cars.
And it's, I'm, I'm really proudof everyone that's doing what
(37:33):
they're doing.
I hope that they're stayingsafe.
Yeah.
But I, my prediction is thatit's gonna, it's gonna spread.
It's, it's catching, you know,because people are finally
starting to see like, oh, we canfight back.
Bonnie Violet (37:45):
Well, and I think people are realizing that this
is, this could be that momentwhen, you know, like when things
shifted in Nazi Germany
Pacey (37:53):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (37:54):
And people did nothing.
Yeah.
Right.
And I think people are feelingthat pressure of like, what am I
going to do?
Pacey (38:01):
Mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (38:02):
You know?
Absolutely.
What am I going to do?
Am I just gonna let thingshappen?
Yeah.
Or am I gonna do something
Pacey (38:10):
leaning into our community even more
Bonnie Violet (38:12):
right now?
Yeah.
And I don't know if ourcommunity is there yet, but
maybe it is.
It's definitely something I'vebeen thinking a lot about.
Pacey (38:21):
Me too.
Yeah.
I just, I want to be able tomake sure that we have resources
for people that are feelingafraid and mm-hmm.
'cause I, I, I didn't think thatI wasn't doing all right, but.
I've been really avoidant andreally just kind of isolating.
(38:43):
And it's weird for me nowbecause like I'm not depressed.
I don't have issues withdepression anymore.
But when I have, when I startacting like this, it, it feels
sort of the same with like allthe things that I'm doing.
And I, I don't realize it untilconversations like this where
I'm like, oh, maybe there issomething going on.
Well,
Bonnie Violet (38:58):
no, and I think, but I think what we're doing and
maybe what our spirits and mindsare doing for us that we may not
be aware of is a lot like what?
Blake talked about when we hadthe conversation with Blake
around, around the power of restand rest is resistance.
And I think a big key is, isthat we better be catching our
rest.
Yeah.
We better be like catching ourmoments when we can.
(39:20):
Mm-hmm.
Because it's not too far off, orwe might not get that same sort
of, um, uh, choice.
Mm-hmm.
That's a good point.
So I think the thing of it is,thank you for that, Blake, is to
really, we need to like rest inthat.
Pacey (39:33):
Mm-hmm.
Bonnie Violet (39:34):
Um.
For as long as we can.
Yeah, I agree.
And as often as we can.
Yeah.
So we should probably call it, Ithink we're gonna call it, I
know if, was that five hourslater?
Yeah.
No, it's good.
I
Pacey (39:47):
think there's so much going on right now that it's
good to, to just talk about itout loud.
Mm-hmm.
To kind of help it make sense inmy mind.
Bonnie Violet (39:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Are we gonna be out and aboutand maybe.
Streaming some of this stuff orlike, yeah, I don't know.
'cause I'm kind of feeling likeif we would,'cause I'm feeling
like I almost thought today weshould have somebody come on who
could talk about knowing yourrights with the protesting and
things like that, which we'llencourage and we'll push, we'll
post some things on our socialsover the next couple days
(40:19):
mm-hmm.
To kind of help people throughthat Right.
In the best way we can.
But, um,'cause maybe, and nextweek maybe plan to do it.
Pacey (40:27):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (40:27):
But, um.
If we might not have until nextweek before.
Yeah.
It becomes important.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
We
Pacey (40:34):
could put something on our socials.
I'll be at the one tonight andon Saturday I'll be there for a
little bit, but then I have togo outta town.
Okay.
So I'll have to leave aroundone.
Bonnie Violet (40:43):
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Well keep an eye out and alsolike we're just one little.
Group.
Mm-hmm.
There are lots of organizationsand lots of streams on tiktoks
and Instagrams, and you know,that's one thing right now is
there's lots of good informationout there.
Lots of live streams.
Yeah.
To help folks kind of discernand determine how they show up.
But I would say just be smartabout it.
(41:05):
Think about like some worst casescenarios.
Mm-hmm.
And kind of how you're gonnadeal with situations.
Right.
Do you have an exit plan?
Do people know where you're at?
Pacey (41:15):
Right.
Bonnie Violet (41:15):
Don't bring your children.
That's my feeling.
Yeah.
Pacey (41:18):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (41:19):
Um, I'm supposed to watch my niece this
afternoon, evening.
Oh yeah.
And so I'm like, I just don'tthink I'm gonna go.
Pacey (41:25):
Yeah.
Bonnie Violet (41:25):
Because I wanna, I wanna Yeah.
Keep her safe.
Keep her safe.
Um, but, um, and I kind of feela little bad that I'm not gonna
be there.
Uh, and there's a part of methat doesn't want to be either.
Yeah.
It's, that has a little fear.
Um, but I'm grateful for thosewho are going out.
Any who?
Pacey (41:42):
Yeah.
Alright.
Sounds good.
Be back next week.
All right.
Bye-bye.
Good luck.
Perfect.
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