🚨 Policing Pride: Trans Bodies, Religious Trauma & Resilience in Canyon County with Trans Parent & Organizer Van

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bonnie Violet (00:16):
Hi everyone.
How's it going?
I'm Bonnie Violet, trans femme,gender queer, spiritual drag
artist, digital chaplain.

Pacey (00:21):
And I'm Pacey, trans masc non-binary Mental Health and
recovery Advocate and

welcome to Trans Joy Boise podcast, where every
story, laugh and act of joy is astand for our community.

Pacey (00:31):
We uplift bold voices, share real experiences, and
celebrate trans lives thriving.

Tune in, connect and spread the joy because trans
joy is

Pacey (00:40):
unstoppable.
I was ready this time.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
That's always a journey.

Van (00:45):
That was great.
Yeah.
You did it.

Pacey (00:47):
Best one.

I think so.
I, I made some weird noise withmy throat at one point, but
other than that, yeah.
I figured name

Van (00:52):
plus and I'm here.

Yes.
In person.

Van (00:55):
So I feel like my vote really matters.
You're absolutely right.
Yeah.

Yes.
And why don't you introduceyourself.
Mm-hmm.

Van (01:01):
Oh, well I didn't practice, you know, like a beautiful

Oh, it's okay.

Van (01:06):
Introduction.
We all started somewhere,

you know?

Van (01:09):
Mm-hmm.
Uh, sure.
Yeah.
That's so true.
Right?
And we're all on a differentjourney.
My name is Van.
I am the Vice President ofCanyon County Pride, which was
started last year.
Um hmm.
I don't know what else to sayabout me.
I guess my pronouns are she,her, they, them.

(01:32):
Mostly.
Okay.
However, I did, uh, I, Iidentify as gender queer.
Uh, I did get, as I was puttingup Canyon County Pride posters
at, uh, Boise Co-op yesterday.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, someone was screaming like, sir, sir, like screaming
Uhhuh.
And I was like, wow.
Someone is like, uh, runningwith some, yeah.

(01:56):
Something me crazy.
And like trying to steal fromthe co-op is what I'm thinking
in my head as I'm like puttingthe poster on the bulletin
board.
Mm-hmm.
And I keep hearing likesiiirrrrr, sir and uh,
apparently they were talking tome.
Right.
'cause then it changed to ma'am.
But then also, I hate beingcalled ma'am as well.

(02:16):
Yeah, of course.
Like is a, is a no and so islady for me, like ma'am and
Lady, no thank you.
Uh, then it changed to Ma'am andI was like, wow, who there are
lots of people stealing today.
Just as I'm like hanging thesethings up.
And then I turn around andthere's two like employees, like
right in my face.
They like, you have to getpermission to put that up.

Oh, wow.
And I was

Van (02:34):
like, oh, I did not know you were talking to me.
I was not trying to ignore you.
I'm sorry.
Uh, here's the poster.
And they're like, oh, you don'tneed permission for that.
Like, we love the gays.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
Uh,
but it was a funny interaction of like, oh, they
were talking about me.
They don't know if I'm a man orwoman.
I don't either.
It's okay.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And,
uh, I guess that's the introduction for myself.

Yeah.
I love that.

Pacey (02:56):
Yeah.
That's, that's relatable.

Van (02:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Relatable for sure.

Yeah.
And you've shared similarstories too.
Yeah.

Pacey (03:02):
Yeah.
But it's like, it's the same.
It's like I am, we're alluncomfortable and I don't like
any of the pronouns, just like,don't perceive me at all and
will be great.

Van (03:11):
Yeah.
Right.
And I wonder especially,especially for strangers,
especially mam and sir fromstrangers, like why are we still
doing that in this day and age?
I wonder.

I don't, I used to hate sir, but I really don't
like ma'am.
And I have one person who Iwon't say, who does call me
Lady.
And the first time I heard it, Iwas like.
Mm.
All I think I like that.
Hmm.
But I think I would only like itfrom him.

Van (03:33):
From that

person.
From that person and, yeah.
Because it's different from him.
Well, it is because I knowexactly who you're talking
about.
Yeah.
No, totally.
And I was just like, it waslovely.
It was just like, oh, so greatto meet you lady.
Or something.
It was something like that.
I was like, oh, okay.
It was like, that's kind of, itwas very affirming, but I was
like, oh, alright.

Van (03:49):
Yeah.

And

Van (03:50):
I think that's an, an interesting thing to hit on
because like, I think oftentimeswe like wear our pronoun pins or
wear our preferred situation, orlike with my partner, uh,
she'll, you know, use different,uh, titles and pronouns with me
and it's okay, but that doesn'tmean it's okay with everyone.

(04:12):
Yep.
And like, my kids still call me mom.
We've talked about like MaPa aslike a mm-hmm.
In between.

Pacey (04:18):
Right.
Right.
That's cute.
But

Van (04:19):
it's interesting.
It is cute.
Mm-hmm.
Have you seen the showTransparent?
Uh, um, I, yeah.
What do you think of it as atrans person?

I mean, I saw it a while back before I
transitioned, so I don't know.
It'd be interesting to watchback now.
Yeah.
But I thought it was kind ofcool, you know?
I know there's cha there waschallenges with it.
Yeah.
But, um, but it was kind of acool,'cause there wasn't many
trans stories at that time,especially as like parents.
And so it was definitely somestory.
And I feel like that'softentimes with trans and

(04:51):
non-binary and queer folks isthat we just have to settle with
what.
Representations sometimeshappens for us.
It's a before representation.
Yeah.
And it's like that we, yeah.
It's like, yay and ooh, youknow, it's like this mixed bag.
But it seemed, it seemed good tome.

Van (05:04):
Uh, an interesting thing that I would suggest is the book
written by the writer Oh.
Uh, of transparent.
Mm-hmm.
Is this too big of a like, leadaway?
No, not at all.
We're, no, this is, I dunno whatwe're supposed to talking, how
we about this.
This is how we roll, but I'mchatting about whatever I want.
Yeah.
Uh, but their, their book isincredible.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, because they wrote transparent in response to their

(05:27):
parent transitioning, and that'skind of how they processed.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you know, going through thetransition as their child.
Yeah.
And that's why the show is written.
But then they went on their owngender journey and I believe
they identify as non-binary.
Now I'm not actually completelya hundred percent sure because

(05:48):
I, I wrote it a long time ago.
Um, but like the book that Ibought has their.
Uh, like, I don't know if it'stheir dead name or

some signature.
Yeah.
A

Van (06:00):
very female oriented thing, Uhhuh.
And now I think it's printed asa non-binary.
Oh.
So it's cool to, to like hearher experience Yeah.
As a non, non-binary person andhaving a transparent through
that.
The book is,

well, I think the fact that it's somebody's'cause
that's somebody's transexperience.
Right.
And so I think that's like, so,so that's really great.
So I think the story in ofitself is probably amazing.
I think the challenge was, isthat it was a cisgender man.

Van (06:26):
Right.
And he ended up, uh, sexuallyassaulting many members.
Oh my God.
The, yeah.
It was a whole, a whole thing.
Jeffrey Tamper.

Mm-hmm.
So not a trans person.

Van (06:35):
Definitely not a trans person.
We like to make that clear, uh,white straight guy.

Pacey (06:40):
It's always the white straight.
What do you know?
Predatory man.
It's crazy that he's a predator.

Van (06:45):
Wild, wild news.
It's wild how that Yeah, about,huh?

Pacey (06:49):
It's good though that we have more.
Examples of trans experience inmedia.
Mm-hmm.
Other than like, back in our,like all of our day basically
was the L word and queer folk.
Queer

folk was like, this is queer folk was Oh, it
was like the jam and yeah.
It's so, so you watched it?
Yeah.
Like when we, when I was growingup, I actually used to run queer
groups for queer men and wewould watch it and then Oh wow.
Taught would tear it apart andtalk about this and that, and
I'm like, uh, he's a child.
That's a man.

(07:22):
You know what I mean?
Like, yeah.
There was so much just like, andit was extremely white, but it
was just like interesting.
It's very problematic when youthink about it now.
But even back in the day, justthe, the cultural norms and
understandings of what,'causemany of us queer people have had
experiences with older peopleand it almost felt like more of
a coming of age.

(07:42):
Like, it's just like how you, I.
I don't know how, and I knowit's kind of wonky to talk about
this publicly, but like, I feellike a lot of us, just because
we didn't have queer peoplearound us, I think we often
ended up meeting people olderthan us first.
Yeah.
And that's kind of the beginningof our queer experience.
Mm-hmm.
And so to see that now, it justfeels icky.
Yeah.
You know, at the time whenyou're, when you're that age,

(08:04):
you just think it's cool and youdon't really think about the
dynamic.
But now to look back and thinkof like a 17-year-old and a
30-year-old, yeah.
It's not cute.
No.
By any stretch of the, no,that's definitely not.

Pacey (08:14):
But even like age, but you don't think about stuff,
stuff that's more accepted.
I think like the queercommunities, aside from it being
like Justin being a minor, butYeah.
Um, the show, there were severalthings in the show that age
very, very poorly, but at thetime, like it was revolutionary.
Like there was nothing like itbefore that.
Mm-hmm.
Just to be able to watch.

(08:34):
Like queer lives on.
It was just like un Yeah.
Unlike anything I had ever seenat the time.
I never even watched the finalseason.

cause I didn't, it had come up in ending in the
UK first, but did you see themost recent version?

Pacey (08:47):
I I It was so good.
No, it was so good.
Is it good?
And a

dear friend of mine was one of the main
characters.
Oh, that's right.
They were the, the drag queen.
Mm-hmm.
Cool.
And, uh, they were, it was just,it was a lot better.
It was almost completely done bylike black and brown folks and
Oh wow.
There was like, there were just,it was definitely like the queer
folk of our time.
Yeah.
You know, there was likeinteresting, uh, lesbian couples
that were having babies and ortrans people that were having

(09:12):
babies.
And it was just like this.
It was, it was, they did reallykind of take it to I think the
next level and then now to whereit had a little bit more of a,
um, yeah.
I thought it was just so muchbetter to get to see.

Pacey (09:24):
I, my toxic trait is I was in love with Brian Kenny.
I thought that he was justperfect.
And now, like saying that Ihaven't seen this in like 15
years, I'm sure I'll watch itand just be horrified.
Like I was very ill back then.
Right.
But like, I was like, he's

just great.
It came up the other day as likea thing to check out.
And so me and my partner, weturned it on for a second.
I was just like, yeah,
I'm
sure.
My
god.
Yeah.
Interesting.
A really great show to watch issort of, have you seen sort of
No, it's on HBO Max.
And it's about, it's, it's basedin Toronto and it's this, um,

(09:59):
this uh, uh, like Indianrefugee, well, his family came,
their family came from India,and so they live in Toronto and
then they're like non-binary andthey're like a nanny.
And so it talks about all thelike kind of, um, there's like
the cultural aspects.
There's the Sure.
The, the Islamic aspects.
And then there's also just like.

(10:20):
Being non-binary and her, hereventually transitioning, but
like, kind of that journey.
And it's just reallyinteresting.
Lighthearted.
It's a lot of fun.
There's lots of like queerpeople and um, it's just a lot
of fun.
Okay.
It's very, it's very good.
Yeah.
Any, any, yeah, any, that's anice way to though, that's
absolutely

Van (10:37):
my fault.
I'm responsibility for ustalking about, that's how

we get to know each other a little bit more.
So.
Mm-hmm.

Van (10:44):
Yeah.
Well, we really don't know eachother.
I mean,

we, I wore your socks.

Van (10:48):
You have worn my socks.
Yes.
And that was very intimate.
It was.
Thank you for wearing them.

You were a lifesaver.
I mean, had we met, we had justbarely met before that too, too.
I, we, we met at the, the river.
The lake.
The river, the water.
Was that before?
Was that when we first met?
Yeah, before the march.
It was just before the march.
Yeah.
Okay.
I believe you.
And we were like out of the rock, the water.
Yeah.
Out there Chi.
Yeah.

(11:13):
I think that's when we firstmet.
Met Matt.

Van (11:16):
So we'd met once.

Yes.
And then we march and then, andthen it was the trans march.
I saw your trans march and Iforgot to wear socks.
Mm-hmm.
And I was in those big oldboots.
Oh,
they were gorgeous boots.
But yeah, they were, yeah.
And my feet
were dying.
And you were like, here take mysocks.
And you literally took them offyour body and I was like, no,
wait, you need'em.
And I was, but I was also likein a lot of pain.
Yeah.
And so I was like, okay, thankyou.

Van (11:39):
Well, I was always taught in church like, you're supposed
to give someone the shirt offyour back.
Mm-hmm.
And I figure it kind of rainbowsocks because the socks as well.
One and the same.
Yeah.
No, totally.
I think that's maybe something Idecided to keep from church is
like being kind to people.

Pacey (11:51):
Yeah.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's so beautiful of likeleaving the church, right.
And then still using theteachings, but in a way of
giving rainbow socks to someoneat a trans march.
Totally.
Like, fuck yeah.
I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It takes you back beautiful.
Back to Sunday school.

Van (12:06):
Well, and I feel like, I mean, I was a lesbian wearing
Nike Air Max, so.
Like my feet are gonna be finewith or without socks.
Well, we ended up up getting in

a car, didn't we?
Yeah.
And like we rode to the nextplace.
But it was still kind of like,it

Van (12:20):
was still too much for your feet.
Yeah.
Because you still had to standwhen you got there.
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Van (12:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You looked great.

You were a lifesaver.

Van (12:26):
Well you were.
And that was kind of

the, so good beginning of us knowing each
other at least.

Van (12:31):
Yeah.

Yeah.
How about Preston?
When did you meet Preston?
I think that was the same.
I think we met March.
At the March as March.
March.

Pacey (12:36):
Yeah.
'cause we went and got foodafter food.
That's right.
Yeah.
At at pera.
Mm-hmm.
So it's been a very short

amount of time.
Really?
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Pacey.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
We, shit, I don't even, I'mprobably the worst.
I'm like, I'm like, alright,they're pacey on, on camera and
then I'm the one, it's okay.
It's fine.

Pacey (12:57):
It doesn't, it doesn't even matter anymore.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So tell us about Canyon CountyPride.

Van (13:03):
Wow, I could talk about this all day.
Mm-hmm.
So you'll have to like maybeguide me.
Okay.
'cause this really is one of mymany passions.
Okay.

Pacey (13:12):
Well how about, tell us about how it started and how
successful it was last year.

Van (13:18):
Okay.
So you want me to brag at thesuccess.
Fabulous.
I can do that.
I do do, absolutely.
Awesome.

Yes.
Uh,

Van (13:24):
well it's interesting.
Uh, so I have a trans son.
When we first left the church,uh, we moved to Nampa.
And so basically knew no onebecause we were so used to like
we moving somewhere and having achurch community.
Right, right.
And that's kind of what you leanon as church folks.

(13:44):
Yeah.
Uh, I don't know if it's thesame in other religions, but
that's like what we would do.
We would move somewhere.
Always find our church peoplemake

roots.
And especially I think in theMormon religion.
Yeah.
Because it seemed like it's atevery level.
It's at work, it's at school,it's like who you hang out with.
It's mm-hmm.
Like I've always noticed, I wasnon Mormon, so I wasn't cool in
my little hometown.
Um, oh.
The the cool kids were Mormon.
Okay.
Wow.
The,
the cool bad kids were Catholic.
Okay.
And then I was just not you werejust you I smoked by in the

(14:13):
Catholic church, you know, like,um, but yeah, like, so, so that
was one thing I noticed withMormons as well.
And I always thought it wasgreat.
Like, Mormons are tend to belike really close family
oriented and that seems like areally awesome value, like
looking at.
But I think, yeah, as soon asyou become not a part of that,
it's like you lose everything.
It's not just like your family,but it's like absolutely.

(14:35):
It's your work, it's yourcommunity.
It's like, it's so huge.

Van (14:39):
Yeah.
And uh, anytime.
Um, I kind of missed that senseof community.
I would try to make my ownmm-hmm.
Within the queer community.
Totally.
Because I, I think that's like ahuge, uh, asset that we have as
a queer community is likecreating groups and contacts and

(15:00):
like having a really strongfamily.
Mm-hmm.
Probably because a lot of uslose our families.
Oh, yeah.
Well, as we come out transition.
Mm-hmm.
Or fill in the blank.
And even

in just a more authentic way, I know, like I
began to love my queernessbecause I was able to leave
church and like be around otherqueer people who felt good about
who they were and theyunderstood who they were a
little bit better when I wasjust trying to figure it out.
But, yeah.
Interesting.
Yeah, so I, in a lot of ways I feel like the
queer community.
Just'cause I've come from aspiritual lane, like that was my
new sanctuary, was absolutelythe dance clubs and the queer

(15:30):
folks and did include drugs andalcohol eventually, but you
know, sure.
That's just par for the course.
Yeah.
For most, most young peoplegrowing up in a lot of ways, and
you're, you know, 18, 1920s,

Van (15:41):
but I was Mormon so I couldn't even, I couldn't even
drink coffee.

Right.
I didn't mean to derail you.

Van (15:47):
Oh, you didn't derail me at all.
Um, my trans kid was, I think atthe time, came out as non-binary
and we kind of explored that.
And I, being a queer person waslike, I can do this.
I can parent a, the non-binary,uh, trans person because like, I

(16:09):
love the queer community.
I'm a bisexual person.
I got this.
Mm-hmm.
Uh.
And then saw his mental healthplummet.
Yeah.
You know, as, as he was figuringthings out and as he was trying
new, new names, new pronouns,that sort of thing.
Uh, even though he had a safeplace to do it, I think because,

(16:32):
you know, it's a littledifferent if just his parents
and sibling are supporting himversus people his age.
Mm-hmm.
People that he looks up to thatare, you know, going to his
school.
Uh, so I looked, I, I called allmy therapist friends.
I emailed people in the queercommunity and was like, I have a
son, you know, at the time hewas 11 or 12, uh, I need help.

(16:57):
Like, I am literally waking upevery morning going to his room
to make sure he's alive.
This is not working.
You know, he was in therapy too.
Mm-hmm.
Um.
But without a community therapyagain is just like one
part.
Yeah.
One key to health, right?
Mm-hmm.
Um, and someone told me aboutClutch and we went the next

(17:18):
week.
I emailed Mindy Louisebeforehand, said my kid was
coming and he walked in and itwas like, I, I think the feeling
that a lot of people get atchurch, I imagine mm-hmm.
I never, I never really felt it

like you belonged,

Van (17:34):
but like they belong.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And we felt that at Clutch theminute we walked in the door.
Yeah.
And it was such a coolexperience and it kind of gives
me a soft place for, for churchpeople.
If I kind of think of thatfeeling.
I'm like, okay, this is maybewhy people still go to church
because this feeling ofbelonging mm-hmm.
And family and accepting who youare, regardless of any

(17:57):
stipulation Right.
Is an amazing feeling.
Uh, and I instantly was like,I'm volunteering.
I am being involved in thisbecause of.
The instant turnaround in mykid.
Mm-hmm.
Like just having a group ofadolescent weirdos meeting
together.
Um, you know, a lot of them arelike a DHD and autistic, just

(18:18):
like my kid.
Mm-hmm.
And so, you know, like there wasno pressure to like have giant
conversations or engaged.
It was just come as you are,here's food, here's an activity.
Have fun.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Can you say a little bit about Clutch?
I don't know that everyone knowswhat Clutch is.

Van (18:33):
Clutch, uh, I, being raised Mormon, uh, was taught to like
baptize people and givetestimony all the time.
Mm-hmm.
And I feel like that prepared me to talk about Clutch
because I have converted people.
I'll testify on the regular toClutch.
Uh, yeah.
But Clutch is for ages 12 to.

(18:58):
Um, I wanna say 14, I wanna say14 to 21, but it could be 12 to
21.
I'm a horrible volunteer that Idon't know that, uh, but it's
for queer youth in Nampa.
I know a lot of people thatdrive from Boise.
I know a lot of people thatdrive, you know, from wherever,
whenever they can.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, it's an awesome organization, uh, led by a

(19:19):
lesbian couple that is, I do notknow how to describe them other
than perfect love.
Mm-hmm.
Um, Mindy and Louise are an incredible example of how to
love an incredible example ofhow to exist in community, uh,
when people are pushing backagainst you.

(19:40):
And an incredible example of howto be a queer adult.
Interacting with

queer youth.
Mm-hmm.

Van (19:48):
They're just incredible.

So it's like an L-G-B-T-Q youth group?
Yes.
So it's not like trans-specific,it's broader,

Van (19:53):
not trans specific.
However, most of the youth thatregularly attend are trans or
non-binary.

Yeah.
I remember when I first heardabout it, it was like a trans, I
was a trans thing.
Oh, okay.
Like that's kind of like the,what I had heard how it was, but
once I like looked like, lookedit up and learned a little bit
about it, it was, it wasobviously more of like an an
L-G-B-T-Q thing.
Yeah.

Van (20:14):
And I don't think, I mean, I don't think they like stop you
at the door.
Oh no.
Like, are you actually bisexualor are you coming, you know,
like they're going to like quizyou.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, but yeah, it's definitelyqueer centered.
Got.
So I vol started volunteering.
I met Tom, and Tom and I arelike really, really similar
energy wise and like, yes, wewill sit front row at this

(20:37):
kid's, uh, tarot reading thingand learn about tarot.
Like right.
There's only four other kids.
And then me and Tom, and we werelike, yes, we love the
activities.
Uh, so he and I really bondedover like participating.
'cause a lot of the adults aremore like, oh, I'm making the
food.
I am, you know, like helpingwith various tasks.

(20:57):
And we were very much like frontrow in the activity with the
kids, like talking with the kidswhile we do the activity.
So, uh, we kind of bonded overthat.
And one day, I think it wasafter yoga, he casually was
like, it's my dream to haveCanyon County pride someday.
Like, wouldn't that be awesomefor these kids?
Like to be able to know that inCanyon County people wanna show

(21:21):
up for'em.
Yeah.
Like other than this oneThursday a week.
Yeah.
And I was like.
Absolutely.
That would be incredible.
And he was like, do you think,like, do you think we could do
it this year?
And it was April.
Oh, wow.
And I was like, yeah.
Yes.
I mean, like what's the harm inapplying?
Mm-hmm.
You know, like throw in anapplication.

(21:43):
Mm-hmm.
He's like, yeah, let's do it atIndian Creek.
I was like, okay, throw on anapplication.
Don't you dare tell me thisdream if you're not committed to
it, because I will make thishappen.
Like, and he's like, oh no, youdon't know me well enough, but
Right.
We're making this happen.
If we're like, are we doingthis?
Mm-hmm.
And I was like, yes.
Are we doing this?
And he was like, yes.
So he handed an application, uh,Indian Creek said, no, they were

(22:06):
too busy.
I don't know if that's true.
And then we, uh, applied forLakeview Park.
Mm-hmm.
And
then, I believe it was May 7th, I wanna say.
Uh, they notified us that wewere approved and on the
application we said like 50 to ahundred people, uh, in front of
the rose garden, and we're justgonna have a little picnic.

(22:29):
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Yeah.
And we kind of figured, likeworst case scenario, we would
text all the weirdos that weknow.
Mm-hmm.
Um, texts like hookups that we'd had or something, and be
like, come to the park.
We're throwing pride because wedon't get pride in June in
Boise.
And it's like an important partof being queer is like
celebrating in June.
So, you know, wouldn't you cometo a picnic in the park?

Pacey (22:52):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Pacey

Van (22:53):
wouldn't you?
Mm-hmm.
Like, just come, bring your ownlunch.
We thought it would be like apotluck situation Right.
With like 50 people.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and then it, it slowly got more and more interest as we
like, put the word out there.
But I think he and I wereprobably working 20 hours a day
from the, the day we Geez.
Heard about it until.

(23:14):
Mm-hmm.
Day after probably.
Yeah.
Uh, because of the timeline, youknow, when you have 21 days to
plan a festival
mm-hmm.
Uh, it gets really, really chaotic really, really fast.
Yeah.
Um, so it, it sort ofprogressed.
We had these ideas.
We, we met with sponsors.
We were basically doing as muchas we could.

(23:36):
And then the mayor came out withher, uh, completely bigoted,
homophobic press release, and Ofcourse,
yeah.
Uh,
yeah, of course.
Mm-hmm.
Which is so sad that like,that's.
The Of course.
Right.
But you're right, of course.
Uh, and basically said like,well, we would not let you do

(23:57):
this, but unfortunately, theFirst Amendment exists, so we
can't do it.
Our lawyers say, we have to letyou be here.
Mm-hmm.

Uh, so we, which was a gift in a lot of ways.
It was

Van (24:06):
a, a huge gift.
Yeah.
Because, uh, you know, nationalnews, uh, picked it up.
We had a story in the WashingtonPost, and from, from then it was
just like, yeah.
More fuel for this incredible,like, we were planning on a
little fire mm-hmm.
A little family fire to rosemarshmallows over it turned into
a beautiful, uh, warm, heavenlycelebration for almost 4,000

(24:27):
people.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, yeah.
It, it was crazy.
And I think, uh, we continuallyhad to keep making adjustments.
Mm-hmm.
Like, you know, we originallyordered a hundred shirts and
then like, kept ordering moreand more and more.
Originally didn't have any, youknow, fencing, security guards
or anything.
And then we started getting.

(24:47):
Top threats and we're like,okay, how do we protect our
community?
Mm-hmm.
And then we got fencing and thenhad to keep moving that back and
making a bigger and biggerfootprint, which
Right.
You were both there.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, as you know, it was completely packed, like Yeah.
Yeah.
People were sitting on laps typeof a thing, so, uh, it was a
packed house.
It's good to know that we haveabout three times the amount of

(25:09):
space this year, so.
Yeah.
That's great.
Uh, it'll probably be anotherpacked house, but at least you
won't have to, like, you know.

Pacey (25:16):
Yeah, yeah.

Van (25:18):
Starting then.
So,

Pacey (25:19):
and I just wanna make it clear for everyone listening who
isn't local, uh, canyon Countyis not.
It is not a friendly place forthe queer community.
No.
So like, that's why this is sucha huge deal is because this
place, like I remember firsthearing about it, I was like,
there's no way that's gonnahappen in can, like I don't go
to Canyon County.

(25:39):
Right.
Unless I have to because like,because you're

Van (25:41):
not safe.

Pacey (25:41):
I'm not safe there.
No, absolutely not.
So the fact that you guys wereable to put together this
festival in such short noticeand have it be so wildly
successful and get like nationalnews is just unbelievable.
It's incredible.
Yeah.
And I think if people knew likewhat Canyon County was like,
they would truly understand likethe obstacles that you had to,

(26:04):
to get through to make thathappen.

Van (26:06):
Yeah.
Well, thank you Pacey.
Um, the obstacles felt, uh,really scary and really big at
times.
But anytime any sort of obstaclewould come up, like, you know,
at first we were saying bringyour own food and water type
thing.
And then I was like.
I don't want someone to get heatstroke.
Yeah.
We now have like thousands ofpeople showing up, like, I'm

(26:28):
worried about water.
Right.
And I would
like stress out over it.
I'm sure, you know, like at 7:00PM I'd be like, I have to stop
working.
I have to be with my family.
And like, what am I gonna doabout water?
Like, people are gonna getdehydrated, pass out.
I don't want that.
Yeah.
The next morning I would wake upto an email saying, Hey, my
name's Aaron.
Shout out Aaron.

(26:49):
Mm-hmm.
Uh, my name's Aaron.
I was wondering if I couldprovide water to the whole
festival for you.
Mm-hmm.
Like, it would be just

Pacey (26:54):
all fell into place.
It would

Van (26:56):
be wild things like that, that are like obscure tiny
things that I would need to getdone and have no idea how to do
it.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Or where to even start, likedown the path of figuring it
out.
And then I wouldn't, like, Idon't have the time to like, go
down the whole path of figuring,you know, and someone would just
email me or text me or, youknow, fill in the blank.

(27:16):
Being like, do you happen toneed, uh.
5,000, you know, fill in theblanks because I would like to
donate that.
Yeah.
And I would be like,
that's
just unbelievable.
This is wild.
That's so cool.
Yeah.
And it was really cool.
It was a cool feeling to feelcompletely aligned in what I was
doing, because, uh, the job Iwas doing at the time was not

(27:38):
that, it was very much a, like,I'm doing this purely mm-hmm.
So I can feed my family, youknow?
Yeah.
And feeling how it feels to bealigned and like what I'm doing
for work was an amazing, amazingexperience.
I bet.
That's so cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When

I think that just goes to show you too, when
you're doing something that thecommunity really wants or is
ready for, everything just kindof comes together.
We had a similar experience withthe march where we just had to
say, let's do it, and then.
All these people just came outtathe woodwork because it was
like, now is the time for thisto happen.
Absolutely.
Um, so I definitely know I'm, I've been
being an organizer over theyears, that's usually not, you

(28:15):
know, oftentimes that's not whathappens, you know?
Really you have to Yeah.
Oftentimes I feel like you haveto, like, I don't know, like you
have to try to sell the idea ofCanyon County Pride, right.
But people were like, no, youdon't have to sell anything.
Like, duh, no, that's a nobrainer.
Mm-hmm.
What can I do?
Right.
So I think, I think that'ssomething that just really
speaks to like the timing andeverything.

(28:36):
I think there's some things thatare created that just like when
it's time.
It's time.
Yeah.
And, uh, all you gotta do isjust kind like show up for it.
Not to say that it's not a lotof work or a lot of whatever.
Sure.
But it's kind of a cool feeling,especially when you have so many
people coming at you on like anational level or with death
threats or all these sorts ofthings that are like the extreme

(28:56):
opposite too.
Right.
Because you've never probablyexperienced that before that,
you know what I mean?
Yeah.
And so now you're like gettingthese both worlds where you
have.
People that are just like, hereyou go.
And you have other people arelike, I'm gonna kill you.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, it's definitely

Van (29:11):
like dual.
Mm-hmm.
Holding the duality of that isan interesting feeling for sure.
Uh, to go on what you weresaying about Camden County, um,
maybe I could share a little bitabout my kid and just the
pushback that I've had as aparent.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, yeah.
And that he's had existing as atrans and queer person

(29:32):
throughout the years, uh, we'vehad, uh, about 10 friends say
that they're not being friendswith him, you know, and this is,
yeah.
He's
10 years old, 11 years old, 12 years old.
Mm-hmm.
We just had one recently thatlike, he brought over his best
friend from school.
Mm-hmm.
'cause he just switched schools.
Uh, and he brought her over.

(29:54):
We had such a fun time.
Like they were, we were allsitting at the table.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, Eden chatting about.
Fill in the blank and justlaughing.
And we heard like a bang on thedoor and we were like, oh.
And I, my kid went and openedthe door and the person was
like, Hey, I'm her parent.

(30:17):
Oh wow.
I need her to come with me.
And I was like, oh, sorry.
Did we not communicate that shewas here?
Like, what's going on?
Like I can tell you're, uh,frustrated or whatever.
And she's like, I just need herright now.
And I was like, oh, well we'veloved having her.
Thank you so much for lettingher come over.
Are you sure you don't wanna sitdown and eat with us?
We're having a great time.
She was like, no.

(30:37):
I was like,
okay, well hopefully she can come over another time
because we love to have her.
She's honestly welcome anytime.
And she was like, we'll seeabout that.
Wow.
And I closed the door and was like, we're never
gonna see this friend again.
Yeah.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
Uh, which is a really heavy feeling to have.

(30:57):
As an adult.
Yeah.
Like knowing that someonedoesn't like you and doesn't
wanna be around you.
Mm-hmm.
But when it's your child Yeah.
That is, you know, trying theirbest to make friends and be
authentic and cultivatecommunity.
Mm-hmm.
With people their age.
And then this one person thatthey have a great relationship
with, hang out at school all thetime, wanna be together.

(31:19):
Mm-hmm.
All of a sudden can't.
And I did, like I asked him theother day, I was like, so can
she come over?
Yeah.
And he was like, no, her momdoesn't want her to turn into a
liberal.
And it's hard because thisperson is queer.
Her mom just doesn't know it.
Oh.
And so it's like a really, areally frustrating situation,

(31:41):
but sadly this isn't the first.
Like of course we have
kids
get dropped off to play with my kids and we just watch
to see like when they pull up atour house, watch to see if
they're even allowed to get outof the car because we have had
someone pulled up and thenleave.
'cause we have a prime flag.
Of course.
Yeah.
So like it's.
And I've asked my kids like, Ican take down the pride flag.
I can lie for you.
I can pretend to be straight foryou.

(32:01):
I will do all those things if itmeans like you being able to
interact with your friend.
Right.
And of course my kids are like, uh, you did that for long
enough in your life.
Like being Mormon.
You being, we're done with that.
Yeah.
And we don't really want peoplein our lives that don't accept
us, so it's fine.
Yeah.
They have a more mature outlookthan me.
I'm like, I'll slash her tires.

(32:23):
Right, of course.
And make her, let, let her kidcome.
You know, like that's thefeeling that I have.
But my kids are like, well,okay, she clearly doesn't
respect me, so I don't want hermom coming over anyway, you
know?
Yeah.
It's just

Pacey (32:36):
fucking crazy because just odds wise with this like
young generation right now,statistically Right, the
majority of them are, I arequeer in some way.
Mm-hmm.
And their parents.
When, especially with howdivided our country is right
now.
Mm-hmm.
If these kids end up withparents that are super

(32:58):
conservative, like, like thatparent, right?
That's gonna do such adisservice.
And it could potentially be verydangerous for the kids because
just odds wise.
They're gonna end up with kidsthat will identify with the
pride flag in one way oranother.

Well, and the queerness, I mean the, the more
narrow you make the status quo,the less people are gonna fit
into that period.
You know?
And I think younger people andin general, I think people are
starting to really value beingauthentic.
Mm-hmm.
And they're like, I don't fight.
I don't fight.
Like I might even see myselfstill as a man or a woman.
Mm-hmm.
But I'm not that kind of man orwoman, or that's not how I feel

(33:33):
like I have to express myself inorder to be a man or a woman.
Which automatically then kind ofplaces you in this queer, this
queer space.
I think kinda like what we weretalking about in the beginning,
how people assume that maybe youhad, he he him pronouns or maybe
man or they didn't know.
Right.
Right.
And so I think that's one thingthat's happening now is like,
you know, if you're outside ofthat very narrow status quo,
then you're automatically queerwhether you are or not.

(33:54):
And in some ways I think that'sa really great thing.
Um, and I think it does thenlead for, I think it's just
causing a lot of people toreally, I.
Be confronted with what it meansto be perceived as like a queer
person Totally.
Or somebody who's outside of thestatus quo.
Yeah, definitely sound.

Pacey (34:11):
Um,

yeah,

Pacey (34:13):
one thing I want to touch on is the two 70.
Is that right?
Yeah,

totally.

Pacey (34:18):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

Van (34:19):
I mean that's, that's thanks to Canyon County Pride.
Exactly.

Pacey (34:22):
Yeah.
All right.
So we've talked about, on thepodcast several times, uh, HB
two 70.
It's the indecent exposure billthat is already in effect.
And the, the incident that kindof sparked all of this happened
at last year's Canyon CountyPride, the alleged'cause.
Oh, it was total bullshit.

(34:42):
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah, I do wanna say that.
Yeah, that's fair.
Exactly.
That's fair.
The alleged, because like weboth know the gal and we, I was
in the hearings, like it was,these people were lying about
what they saw and I know that I.
They went to the event last yearin bad faith, searching for
something to make an issue, andthey found this perfect

(35:04):
opportunity and they capitalizedon it.
And now we have HB two 70.
So what are your plans?
Like, how are you going toaddress that for this year's,
just to kind of make sure thatsomething like that doesn't
happen again?

Van (35:20):
Yeah, it's, it's a really frustrating and, uh, maybe
volatile situation, uh, becausewe saw, I don't know her name,
uh.
Enter and we

don't need to say it.

Van (35:34):
Yeah,

yeah,

Van (35:35):
yeah.
Uh, but she pronouns I think iswhat I'm hinting at, correct.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, she came in, she lookedgorgeous.
Yeah.
Uh, let's, let's definitely getthat on the record.
That's not alleged.

Pacey (35:48):
She always does.
Yeah.
She always a great style, likealways.
Yeah.
Head

Van (35:50):
to toe.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, so she entered, uh, we sawshe was probably one of the
first 20 people in
mm-hmm.
Uh, we saw the nipple pasties.
Is that what they're evencalled?
Yeah.
Pasties.
Pasties.
Pasties, yeah.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Saw the pasties and we werelike, this is going to be a

(36:11):
situation.
Mm-hmm.
Not for anyone coming in Good faith.
I mean, I, even for children,like I've taken my children to
voice pride many times I'vetaken my kids to multiple
prides, multiple events wherethat's.
Yeah, normal.
It's decent or illegal.
It's like the

Pacey (36:27):
electrician tape I've seen with like Yeah.
Like the ex cis women doing thatas Yeah, I've seen that.
And that was never an issueever.
And that was like never an issuewith

Van (36:37):
many, many cis women.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, for sure.
And that's a really good pointto make.
Um, and we kind of just had ourheart sink a little bit and
like, this is going to be a usedagainst us type feeling.
Mm-hmm.
And uh, there was thoughts aboutlike, okay, let's give her a

(36:57):
free pride t-shirt.
And I was like, I do not feelcomfortable with that.
Like, this is what we are herefor.
Back to the authenticity thing,like you show up as you are.
Yeah.
You show up as you want topresent yourself and there
probably aren't many times.
And if they can't do

it there, where can they?
Exactly.

Van (37:14):
Yeah.
And I, I really fought for doingnothing and I think, you know,
obviously looking back it.
Maybe wasn't the best decisionbecause in not doing harm, I
feel like it would've beenharmful to one trans person.
Totally.
We are opening the gate wideopen for more trans violence.

(37:39):
This is only about trans people.

Pacey (37:41):
Right.
This

Van (37:41):
is not going to happen to assist person.

But this would've happened regardless of this
case.
Yeah.
Because she didn't do anythingwrong.
Yeah, she didn't, and you alldidn't do, and you all did.
I don't, I wanna say like Yeah.
In my opinion, I don't think youdid anything wrong.
I think I would've been moreupset if you would've like Yeah.
Like, I dunno, policed it, butyou like Yeah.
Forced her to cover up or madesome sort of thing about it.
Sure.

Van (38:03):
And I guess that's something to point out is like,
yeah, we don't wanna upset ourcommunity.
Mm-hmm.
We definitely upset.

Pacey (38:10):
Other, and they were gonna be upset no matter what.
You're right.
Yeah.
And like it wasn't the issue, soyou did nothing wrong.
And this is how, you know theyhad to lie.
Sure.
Yeah.
Because if they didn't have to lie about what happened,
that would be something entYeah.
Else entirely.
But they had to lie that she wascompletely topless without
pasties on,

which was not true.
Which

Pacey (38:29):
was not true.
Not true.
So like, if she would've beenwearing pasties and they
would've said that in thehearing.
Yeah.
They would've been like, well,what's the issue here?
Yeah.

Right.
You

Pacey (38:35):
know?

Well, and they, and they would say she, I mean,
they even like referred to heras kind of like a she in that
incident.

Pacey (38:41):
Mm-hmm.
But

then they wanna say that people like that
aren't, are men.
And

Pacey (38:45):
that was probably in the hearing too.
You know what I

mean?

Pacey (38:46):
What did they say about that?
So what am

I,

Pacey (38:48):
am I,

well,

Pacey (38:49):
you know, they said what hap this is what they said
happened in the hearing, whichis, and this is a lot.
Um, they said that.
This woman was topless.
And this, the guy who was sooffended by it was talking to
the cops and was like, why areyou allowing this to happen?
Like, why are you allowing thiswoman to walk around topless?

(39:09):
And the cops said, oh, well, shesaid that he's a man and that he
could do that because he's aman.
And so there's nothing, the copsaid that.
Yeah.
And he's like, so there'snothing I can do about how much
of this is actually, that's whathe said that the cop said.
Mm-hmm.
Gotcha.
So, uh, so there's nothing wecan do about it.
So that's why he was like, well,we need to create, we need to
update the indecent exposure lawto cover trans women.

(39:31):
Mm-hmm.
Basically.
I see.
But that didn't actually, sothat's how they had to connect
it to trans women.
But

it's, it's even more than like including trans
women in that law.
Mm-hmm.
It's actually like creating alaw specifically for trans
women, because cisgender womencan still, I.
Walk around with pasties.
Mm-hmm.
It's just the trans folks.
So I think, I

Van (39:53):
don't know if that's true.
I I thought it was more likethey worded it like any sort of
breast mass.

No, but it was like hormonally, like as far as
like the law goes, it actuallyhas to be like hormonally.
It's a trans body, whether it'sa trans female or a trans.
Yeah.
They've specifically targeted.

Pacey (40:11):
Yeah.

The breasts have

Pacey (40:12):
to be hormonally altered

and potentially drag.

Pacey (40:16):
Yeah.
'cause prosthetics are alsomentioned in the bill fake

genitalia or,

Pacey (40:20):
yeah.
And it was so much to the pointwhere one of the.
The representatives a Democratwas saying, so basically if this
bill passes, someone could go toAdam and Eve and see the
prosthetics there and call thepolice.
And the people that weresupporting the bill were kind of
fumbling like, well, why wouldsomeone do that?

(40:40):
It's like

Van (40:41):
Exactly, yeah.
They they

Pacey (40:42):
could though.
They could, right.
And like, but then the burdenfalls on the police to determine
what is appropriate and whatisn't.
Right.
So in this instance, I feel likea Canyon County police officer
would most likely agree thattrans in general is offensive
and would warrant a charge.

Van (41:01):
Mm-hmm.
I, having met with the CanyonCounty Police multiple times, it
pains me to say this, like, itpains me to defend the police
because I spent, I, I think theonly argument Tom and I got in
last year, I.
Was over police presence and Iwas like, absolutely not.
We are not having police atPride.

(41:22):
No, no, no.
Mm-hmm.
And was like fighting to thenail, like you are a cis white
dude.
Yeah.
I don't even know if you should like, have a say in this.
Like we have
Yeah.
Like the majority of people in Canyon County, especially now
mm-hmm.
With the administration and ICEgoing into effect.
Like they're scared.
Yeah.
Like you don't know what it's like being a rich, white,

(41:44):
cis dude.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, really pushed backand it ended up being like,
after so many threats that itwas like, okay, you have to,
this is like, we might losepeople attending mm-hmm.
But we don't want peopleattending if we can't keep them
safe.
Yeah.
Right.
So it was like a compromise ofkeeping, we hired private,
private security for interiorwithin the walls and uh, so the

(42:07):
police could be outside.
Right.
Um, so if anything major didhappen, they would be able to.
To enter,

get that quickly.
Um, and there's really only somuch of that you can control as
an organizer, right.
As far as like police presence,presence or that sort of thing.
So it's like the best you can,the, the way if you can work
with them and kind of figurethings out, that's better than
just being like

Van (42:29):
Totally.
Yeah.
And it's still pains me.
It's so I'll say that, but as I,as I say that, it pains me, uh,
the last meeting we were in, uh,I wanna say the last meeting,
maybe two meetings ago with thepolice, uh, we were chatting, I
won't say the specific police
mm-hmm.
Person, but a higher up police at Canyon County.

(42:51):
And uh, he's the one thatbrought up a couple of these,
like HB two 70, a few differentlaws that had recently come into
effect mm-hmm.
That are unenforceablebasically.
Yeah.
Bullshit laws.
Mm-hmm.
Uh,
brought that up.
And we started chatting and hewas like.
Th these laws are making my joba nightmare.

(43:12):
No, I'm sure.
Yeah.
Like, this is not enforceable.
This is not a well-written law.
Like it's hateful.
They're very broad.
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It brought that up.
And they were really like, uh,and we asked a point blank,
like, so will you be evenlooking for indecency
Right.
At Pride?
And he was like, no.

(43:33):
You know?
Uh, so that's information.
Mm-hmm.
Do I That's great.
Do I think you should be like,oh, yay, let's go party with the
police.
Absolutely not.
But that's information.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, that I have.
Okay.
From a perspective of meetingwith the police multiple times.
Uh, and, uh, the police havebeen amazing to work with.

(43:54):
That's great.
And they've listened to ourconcerns and that's

Pacey (43:57):
so surprising, and that's such so surprising.
Such a pleasant surprise.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Van (44:00):
And that being said, like we brought up, uh, we met with,
I.
The mayor of Nampa, policechief, and a, a few other, like
higher up people mm-hmm.
In Nampa, uh, I don't know, amonth or two ago.
And we brought up like, Hey, amajority of our population is
Latinx.
Mm-hmm.
Like
a lot of them are concerned, right?

(44:20):
Like coming out of their house,they could get arrested.
Like they're just concerned fortheir overall safety, right?
And then you add being queer ontop of that, that's like a
whole,
a double whammy, right?
Mm-hmm.
Uh, so like, can you help us understand how to navigate
this difficult situation?
And they were like, oh, theydon't need to even worry.
Like, they don't even need toworry about that.
They'll be totally safe.
And we were like.

(44:42):
Okay.
That doesn't feel good, likesitting in a room of white
people.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, like,

well, given their history,'cause it's still the
same mayor as last year.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I bet she's just delightfulto work with.

Van (44:55):
No comment.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh, but anyway, there's thatinformation about Okay.

So has

Van (45:01):
take, take it with what you will.

Yeah.
Has the, has the the law oranything changed how you're
gonna approach things this year?
Is there any information thatpeople need to know that might
be coming out?
Yeah,

Van (45:11):
yeah.
Um, we are going to enforce at-shirt policy, uh, mostly, you
know, not because, uh, we wannamonitor what people are wearing
by any means.
Um, obviously like you don'thave to have a full on t-shirt.
People that wanna wear a tanktop or spaghetti strap or a tube
top or whatever, that's fine.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but it's mostly to avoidthose situations that are

(45:36):
completely taken out of context,out of proportion.
Mm-hmm.
Um, which.
You know, we believe we'llultimately protect trans and
non-binary people.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Uh, because of of Oh

Pacey (45:48):
yeah.

Van (45:48):
The culmination of what happened last year.
So yeah.
We're shirt it sucks.
I don't, I mean, we obviouslywould love it if we didn't have
to have security.
Yeah.
Didn't have to have the policeand didn't have to have a dress
code.
Yeah.
But here we are.
Yeah.
And it's difficult to say.
And if that, you know, uh, makespeople uncomfortable to not come

(46:11):
because they can't be themthemselves.
We get it.
Yeah.
And I think, I think that'ssomething to note too, is that
like it's been a difficultdecision process.
Of course.
Yeah.
And we not only have to thinkof, you know, the four to 5,000
people that will be inattendance, but the law that is
going to affect Yeah.
The entire population of Idaho.

Pacey (46:30):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And not only that, there aregoing to be people there that
are.
They're for the exact samereason as last year.
Yeah.
They're going to be trying tofind something that they can use
as an attack on the community atlarge.
Yeah.
And like something that they could introduce into
legislation next year.
Yeah.
Because I,
I really believe, and I know I'm not alone in this, that

(46:51):
the bills that are introducednext session are going to be
even more aggressive.
So I think any opportunity thatthey can send people in and try
and instigate issues is justgoing to be the evidence that
they use for their aggressivebills.
Mm-hmm.
Next session.

Van (47:05):
Right.

Pacey (47:06):
So any way to kind of like prevent that or protect
people.
'cause no one wants to be.
Like the, the picture thatthey're using for their bullshit
fucking laws.
Right?
Yeah.
Right.
So I think it's difficult'causeYeah.
Like you don't wanna policepeople's bodies.
You don't wanna tell them whatto do, but you also wanna
protect them.
Totally.
Yeah.
So it's like, because thealternative

is to not do anything.
Mm-hmm.
Or, you know, whatever.
And, uh, I think the thing thatwe wanted most importantly, like
to have this conversation was tokind of set people up who are
planning on going mm-hmm.
To really know what to expect,you know?
Yeah.
The, the police will be on the outside.
Um, there we're really not sureabout ice.

Van (47:47):
Um, well, we do have more information on that.
Okay, cool.
Updated.
Like, I wasn't just like, ohyeah, I'll just tell that
they're safe, that white peopletelling me to tell Yes.
Our community that it's fine.
Like, I'll.
No, uh, yeah, we talked with theACL U, we've had multiple
meetings.
We're going to have, uh, knowyour rights people there.
We're going to have, uh, youknow, various

legal witnesses, legal

Van (48:10):
aid.
We are going to have multiplelegal witnesses, not just for,
you know, the Latinx community,black and brown people, uh, when
it comes to police presence.
Uh, but we had a pers, like afairly large lawsuit come out of
last year mm-hmm.
With one of the protestorprotestors and anti protestors.
So, uh, interesting.
Just having legal observersthere will protect

(48:32):
everyone,
everyone.
Uh, I, I assume, I hope.
Mm-hmm.
Um, again, hopefully none of this comes to fruition.
Yeah.
But with the environment thatwe're in Absolutely.
Yeah.
These laws like, uh, yeah.
We're just doing our, our bestand our due diligence Yeah.
To make sure that we can'tprotect people as much as we
can.
So,

Pacey (48:52):
yeah.
Yeah.
It's gonna be really fun.
What day I.
Is it

Van (48:55):
June 8th?

Pacey (48:56):
June 8th?
It's a Sunday.
It's a Sunday.
It

Van (48:58):
is a Sunday.
Uh, it's going to be from 10 tosix.
And maybe I'll share this now.
Yeah.
Bonnie Pilot.
Are you okay with that?
Yeah, I'm good with that.
Okay.
Uh, we are going to open Canyon County Pride with a
church service, which seems kindof, I don't know, off brand for
queer people and church.
Uh, but there's still a lot ofqueer people that value, uh,

(49:22):
connection with God.
Mm-hmm.
Or Christianity, or fill in theblank with all the different
inner Yeah.
Inner faith.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Uh,
and, uh, you know, we have the satanist, we have, uh, what,
what would you call the, like,

I'm trying to remember.

Van (49:37):
Energy.
Yeah.
Type work.
Uh, person.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We have a, they were amazing.
Yes.
I can't remember like theiractual title though.

Pacey (49:45):
Yeah.
What, like spiritual, like aspiritual person?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But

Van (49:49):
more having to do with like element element with elements
and,

and all that sort of stuff.
That's what stuff.
Okay.
We we're definitely doing whatwe can to have like a diverse
representation mm-hmm.
Of like spiritual experience,um, to kind of like merge this
kind of like service.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, to happen in the morning.
And so for folks who wanna comeout to that sort of thing, which
I think is also a great responseto,'cause recently there wasn't

(50:12):
there like a city councilmeeting or something where a lot
of the religious folks actuallyspoke very.
Against it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so it's kind of nice to havefolks who are in support of it,
to be a part of it as well.
Totally.

Van (50:26):
Yeah.
We have multiple faith leadersfrom two C participating.
Yeah.
Uh, and my hope is that yes,there will be a space for
everyone to come together andconnect and, uh, you know, have
a spiritual type experience.
Uh, but my hope is also thatpeople will come and maybe be

(50:48):
healed from some of thereligious trauma.
I have backpacks full ofreligious trauma that I carry
around, and last year, uh, a lotof my religious trauma was
healed, uh, because Pastor Robcanceled his church, brought his
congregation to walk people.
To and from the parking lot sothat they could like put

(51:09):
umbrellas up and protect'em fromYeah.

Oh wow.

Van (51:11):
Hecklers and protestors and bigots and Yeah.

And that's the thing, this

Van (51:15):
congregation showed up.

A lot of communities of faith are the
ones doing a lot of the work.
Um, last year when I did thedrag is not a crime fashion
show.
Mm.
It was completely funded by different, like mostly
it was almost predominantly alllike religious groups and
institutions that funded a dragis not a crime.
All ages fashion show.
Amazing.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
And so I
know also the, um, religious community really

(51:39):
responded to Ken County Pride aswell too.

Van (51:42):
Yeah.
And it, it definitely surprisedme.
Mm-hmm.
I think because in my mind Istill, I mean, and in my body, I
still carry so much religioustrauma.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That it was almost like,
uh, I don't know if I shouldeven trust you.
Like, this is like
confusing for me.
I'm
still there.
And
Yeah.
And I think that's okay.
You know, like, like pleasedon't come to the church.

(52:04):
Like the, what are, what are wecalling Interfa?
It's interface.
Interfaith church service.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I don't

even think we're calling church if you're not.
Not even

Van (52:11):
comfortable, right?
Like with any of that.

Well,

Van (52:14):
totally do not.
Church is a trigger

too.
So what do we call church?
No,

Pacey (52:17):
it i's not that level.
That's fair.
One thing that I, uh, I think isgonna be interesting'cause I,
before I resigned because oflike the transphobia, I was a
minister in the Satanic temple.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, okay.
Because I was involved in theirsober faction.
Like I did a weekly meeting forgrief in recovery and.
You're taught, or back then youwere, that if you're in TST or

(52:41):
you're a satanist, is to notadvertise it when you're at
events or protests because itwill take the attention off of
the focus and people will belike, oh, like for BLM
mm-hmm.
They were discouraging people from going to the BBL m
not from going to the protest,but from wearing like a, a
satanist stuff.
Right.
So, because that way theopposition will be like, look,
fucking Satanists are supportingdoing this right now.

(53:04):
BLM, that tells you everythingyou need to know about the Black
Lives Matter movement.
Right.
Fucking Satanists.
So in this instance, it's gonnabe a fucking heyday, but it's so
important to represent all ofthe different

experiences, facets

Pacey (53:18):
of religion.
So I think it's super cool thatyou're doing that.
Um, that's just, I think it'sgonna be powerful as shit.
Yeah,

Van (53:26):
I do too.
And I was really impressed withthe conversations that we've had
so far.
Like some things were brought uplike, oh, let's focus on instead
of.
You know, like, let's focus onGod loves everyone.
We were all created in God'simage and someone from the
Satanist was like, Hey, I don'tbelieve in God.
Not everybody has like, and noteveryone at Pride is going to.

(53:48):
So I would encourage us to findthings that all of us believe,
like compassion and love.
Yeah.
And the pastor that like broughtthat up was like, wow, thank you
so much for saying that.
Yeah.
And really took it in, changedhis whole Oh, totally.
Yeah.
Like direction.
And it was such a coolexperience to see people from
vastly different systems ofbelief come together and

(54:12):
actually like talk and workthrough, through things.
Because I think today in, inthis divisive, like whether it's
religion or politics, which Ithink are basically the same
thing.
I know.
Yeah.
Uh, everything's just verydivisive.
Yeah.
And
it was cool.
I mean, it was only 10 people,but still it felt so good to be
in like a collaborative.
Environment.

(54:33):
Mm-hmm.
Where people genuinely respectedwhat you had to say, genuinely
respected what they had to saymm-hmm.
And worked together to makesomething, uh, that could kind
of fit with everyone.
So if the fruits are a resultof, of that, then it's going to
be amazing.
Yeah.
And I'm really excited.
It's like

Pacey (54:50):
with satanism.
Because at first I've got likereally bad OCD and a lot of my
obsessions are like withreligion.
Mm-hmm.
It's this whole thing.
I'll tell you about it later.
Yeah.
I'd love to know.
But, uh, it used to, yeah, so itused to make me really nervous
and like make me kind of spinout just on the idea of it.
So I avoided satanism for a longtime, but when I finally read

(55:10):
the tenets and I learned moreabout it, it's more like the
religion that I would associateit with the most is Buddhism.
Hmm.
And people, if you tell someonethat and they have no idea about
satanism, they're like, you'refucking shitting me.
It's like, no.
Like it's, the tenets arebasically just like, be a good
person.
Trust in science, bodilyautonomy.
That's fucking it.

(55:30):
Like Right.
Do no harm.
Take no shit.
Yeah.

So Awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It'll be interesting, myexperience with this, with this
satanic.
Folks have, has all been good.
And there's been plenty of timeswhere they like, we'll step
back.
Like, we'll do the work, we'llshow up.
Mm-hmm.
We'll even lead some stuff, butwe'll step back like when it
comes to media or this, that, orthe other, in order to really
kind of ensure that it doesn'tmuck, take away the focus the

(55:55):
water a little bit or take awaythe focus, which I was really
impressed with.
'cause initially I did have someconcerns.
Um, but yeah, I've, I've hadnothing but great experiences.

Pacey (56:05):
Well, it sounds like this pride is gonna be really
different.

Van (56:08):
Yeah, it is.
And I think, uh, this year wealso have a longer program
mm-hmm.
Uh, that will allow people tocome and go.
Mm-hmm.
So if, you know, if you don'twant attend the interfaith
experience in the morning, youknow, come at noon.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Uh, or you know, most people probably won't be ipi
anyway.

(56:28):
Yeah.
It's Sunday.
It was, it's Sunday morning.
They're

Pacey (56:30):
like, um,

Van (56:32):
and I would bring a lot of water

Pacey (56:33):
because I am the person that blacks out.
Um, yes.
In the gate.
Yeah.
And of

Van (56:37):
course Erin is taking care of our water again too, which is
Thank you, Erin.
Amazing.
Yeah.
So there's water

sunscreen.

Van (56:43):
Yeah.
We have sunscreen too from, uh,donors.
We have.
Uh, but I would still bring yourown water, your own sunscreen.
Uh, some awesome things that aregonna be happening, uh, to kind
of Yeah.
Shift the focus a little bit.
Uh, we are really focusing onlast year we were just needing
performer performers quick.

(57:04):
Oh yeah.
Because we had, you know, threeweeks to plan it.
Right.
This year we have more of acentered focus on performers of
mostly the performers beingqueer.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, most of the performers beingtrans or non-binary.
Uh, we do have another dragshow.
Again, family friendly.
I probably don't have to tellyour audience this, but Right.
There's no reason I have tolike, keep bringing up that this

(57:27):
is a family friendly fast atall.
Uh, but really no one thinksthat except for.
Yeah.
People who Yeah.
Don't know.
Yeah,
yeah, yeah.
Don't
know us.
Uh, so that's gonna be really fun.
We are going to have a danceparty afterward.
That I think is gonna be, uh, areally great experience.
And can I talk about my artproject that I'm doing?

(57:48):
Of course.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
This is really exciting for me.
Um, again, last year I wanted todo like a collaborative art
mm-hmm.
Community installation, but youknow mm-hmm.
That's like bottom of the listand it just didn't happen.
And that's okay.
Uh, but this year we are goingto have a.

(58:09):
Basically eight by eight squaresthat people can write their
story on.
They can draw on.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, they can use stamps.
Like we have a couple localartists, they're making stamps.
Oh, cool.
You know, just like a littlerainbow or a trans, you know,
whatever.
Yeah.
Uh, I don't actually know whatthey're looking like yet, but

Right.
I'll check in.
They're gonna be amazing to selfcheck in.
They're gonna be amazing.
Amazing.

Van (58:29):
Uh, and so you can stamp paint, write color, whatever,
make a eight by eight square,and then it'll be hung up, like
a little prayer flag around anddisplayed that way.
But then they'll all get sewninto a quilt after.
Oh, that's, and we'll have twoquilts on display.
One.
In the trans colors, uh, thatonly trans and non-binary people

(58:52):
can write their story.
Mm-hmm.
Or decorate on, it's, it's goingto be basically blank.
Mm-hmm.
And then a different rainbow onefor whomever, if they're an ally
or just any part of the queercommunity, they can Right.
Write, decorate on that quiltmm-hmm.
On the little square.
And so, uh,
awesome.
I love that.
Then you can kind
of get the idea of what that look like.
Yeah.
And just be a part of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think it'll be a reallycool, I don't know if either of

(59:15):
y'all have gotten into liketextile arts and fiber arts
before.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, but I am slightly obsessed mm-hmm.
With fiber.
Okay.
Because I was always.
Like never wanting anything todo with it.
Right.
Because it was too feminine.
Right.
Okay.
Yeah.
But
now that I'm like living in my authenticity, right.

(59:39):
I'm embracing a lot of feminineOh yeah.
Totally.
All of a sudden.
Mm-hmm.
And like I, me and my partner have been doing felting
and weaving and all sorts ofthings that were like always too
girly.
Too girly.
Yeah.
And I'm
like throwing in lace and throwing in pearls.
Mm-hmm.
And like all of these like hyperfme things.

(59:59):
Oh yeah.
And creating art and likeprocessing a lot of my feminine
side, which has been really,really fabulous.
So I hope, I hope that can kindof reflect too, that like fiber
arts.
Is not a gender, it's just artsituation.
Yeah.
It's just art.

Pacey (01:00:13):
Yeah,

Van (01:00:14):
I think so too.
Yeah.
So that's the

Bonnie Violet (01:00:15):
goal

Van (01:00:15):
too.

Yeah.
That's really cool.
That's gonna be, that soundsreally awesome.

Pacey (01:00:17):
Yeah, for sure.

Van (01:00:19):
So think about what you're gonna write on your squares.
I will.

Pacey (01:00:21):
I know.
I'm still thinking about it now,

Van (01:00:22):
right.

Pacey (01:00:23):
It needs to be good.

Van (01:00:25):
I've been thinking about mine for a while and I still
don't

know.
Yeah.
I always have a hard time withthose things in the moment.
Yeah.
Maybe,

Van (01:00:31):
maybe you could help me brainstorm, because I think, I
think that's a really common oflike mm-hmm.
Well, I don't know how to writemy whole story on in one minute.
On an eight by square.
Uh, so maybe, uh, one of theartists actually was like, this
is common for, uh, community artprojects for people to just be
like,
what?
Yeah.
Yeah.

(01:00:51):
So there is going to be anoption to bring one, so like you
can just cut it out of fabricyourself.
Mm-hmm.
This will be posted later andthen bring it, and then think
about it and bring it.
But we also want prompts for thepeople that are there doing it,
interacting day of.
Mm-hmm.

And maybe some examples of like.
Sure ways that people do it orsomething.
Totally.
Yeah.
That's a really good idea.
Yeah.

Van (01:01:10):
Examples would be good.
What prompt would you give toBonnie Viol?
You know, sitting there gettingready to write and then Bonnie
Viol is like, I don't even knowwhat to write.
What would prompt you?

Pacey (01:01:22):
Well, I know you, so I would, right.
I would wanna know like, how diddrag influence your trans
experience?
Yeah.

Van (01:01:33):
That would be really.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
'cause I

Pacey (01:01:35):
know it was so important for you.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Van (01:01:37):
Maybe what one thing influenced your

Pacey (01:01:42):
trans queer experience?

Van (01:01:44):
Your transition, whatever experience.
Fill in the blank.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

Yeah.

Van (01:01:49):
Thank you.
I'm adding that to, you'll haveto wait to read it.

Absolutely.
Yeah.
You'll have to wait to read it.
I'm not, I'm not saying it here.
I'm not saying it now.

Van (01:01:56):
What a teaser.
Oh,

right.
You've said it in, I have saidit past episode.
I have,

Van (01:02:02):
and I got than one way.
I got it.
As we were making coffee alittle

bit Oh, a little bit of my drag story.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

Van (01:02:08):
Yeah.

Yeah.
Well, was there anything elsethat you wanted to, um, kind of
bring home or reiterate eitherabout Canyon County Pride or,

Van (01:02:18):
sure.
Uh, we just installed abillboard mm-hmm.
Yesterday, and I imagine, uh,just because I've got a few
texts that it's going to bedeface divisive.
I don't know if it's gonna bedefaced.
Right.
The police, that's anotherthing.
Mm-hmm.
Weeks ago in the meeting, we were like, we're probably
gonna put up a billboard.
Mm-hmm.
Like, is this gonna be awful?

(01:02:40):
Like, what are your thoughts?
And they were like, oh, send usthe address and we will have a
police drive by every so often.
Oh,

wow.
Like, hopefully

Van (01:02:48):
protect that for you.
And we were like.

Because it's the pro progress flag with the Ken
County logo on it, right?
Yeah.
The pride logo.
Yeah.
Oh, that's so cool.
Yeah, that's all.
It's

Van (01:02:56):
so, it's just a big flag.
Uhhuh, I think it's like a shoutout to Mayor McLean too.
For like

Pacey (01:03:01):
Yeah, for the flag thing.
Yeah.

Van (01:03:02):
Flag thing.
But it's been really, reallycool to hear people, especially
from Nampa, be like, oh, there'sa giant progress flag.
Yeah.
In Nampa.
This is wild.
And it's like right before yougo into town where the library,
the mayor's office, the postoffice, like where all of that

(01:03:23):
is just

perfect location.
You gotta get a shot of like,right.
The mayor coming out orsomething.
Oh.
Oh, that's a good idea.
Flag behind.
That's probably a little, littleantagonist.
Maybe a little, yeah.
Sorry.

Van (01:03:35):
Uh, anyway, so we're gonna be probably launching some sort
of contest to take pictures infront of that.
I love that.
I'm gonna have my partner comeand we'll like be celebrating.
I know.
Can we

take one from here?

Van (01:03:50):
It's from here.
Yeah.
We're that close.
It's not that big.
And maybe next year we'll getwe, we can edit

it in.
We'll edit it in.
Edit,

Van (01:03:58):
edit.
Totally.
Totally.
Or you know, God forbid youcould drive the 25 minutes.
We could.
Yeah, we

Pacey (01:04:03):
could.
Yeah.
Hate put, also put like thepictures of everyone standing in
front of it.
You could probably put that intolike a mini little art thing
too.
That would be really cool.
Of all the people standing infront the song.
Yeah.
That's such And Carousel.
Good idea.

Carousels on on Instagram.
Yeah.
Oh, just all that would be cute.
Are like impressive technology.
You guys are doing great withyour social media.
Mm-hmm.

Van (01:04:23):
I think it's

looking good.

Van (01:04:24):
I think it like, I think we're definitely, it just feels
like this is our first yearbecause last year was so
disheveled and like so fast that

Pacey (01:04:33):
how feels for us too.
It really feels like

Van (01:04:35):
this is our first year because now we have a board, you
know, we have multiple peoplewith various roles.
Right.
And it's not me and Tom likerunning around crazy people.
Yeah.
White.
Yeah.
So it's been a definite.
We like different experience hasbeen improved and like we're
still working out a lot ofkinks.
Yeah.
Because we didn't,

well, it's the second year in.
We didn't know what we weredoing

Van (01:04:57):
last year.
Yeah, for sure.

And then there's been some changes, right?
So it's like Right.
You're constantly having tochange and adjust.
Yeah.
So,
yeah.
Yeah.
I just wanna say really excitedabout the work that you've been
doing with Canyon County Pride.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Excited to go again this year.
Last year too.
I think there were a lot offolks in Boise.
It was like, yeah, I'm fuckinggoing.
Totally.
And I dont go to, I don't leaveBoise.
I don't go that way for nothing.

(01:05:20):
And most people who go live inBoise do that.
They're like, I'm not going outthere.
I have to.
Oh yeah.
And I was like, yeah, we'regoing.
You know?
Awesome.
Definitely.
And everybody wins, so I'm sureit's gonna be that way again
this year too.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

Van (01:05:31):
I hope so.
And you know, everyone'sinvited.
I think it's, again, like the.
A church person that's stillwithin me.
Like, if you don't agree withus, come and check it out.
Yeah.
Um, preferably not to take pictures.
Right.
Um, you know, with Ill tent inand don't be a creep.
Uh, yeah.
Don't be a creep, but pleasecome.

(01:05:53):
I am, you know, providing waterand a shade tent for the
protestors because that's boundto happen.
Yeah.
And, uh, yeah, just come havefun.
It's gonna be a amazing party.
Yeah.
I always joke that I just loveplanning parties and wanted to
plan a party for myself.
There you go.
So I did this
massive, but really,

(01:06:13):
really, uh, kind of why I brought up the, the billboard is
it's a celebration.
Uh, for the authenticity that wetalked about, uh, but mostly for
our youth.
Mm-hmm.
That, you know, some of themdon't know a trans person Yeah.
That isn't, you know, 16 likethey are.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, a lot of them don't know,uh, a lesbian couple, you know,

(01:06:38):
like it's just so different inCanyon County that like, I walk
places and I am the only out gayperson.
Mm-hmm.
And it's, it's just a wholedifferent vibe.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So,
uh, it's mostly for those kids that, you know, knock on my
door saying, thank you forhaving a pride flag.
My parents don't know I'm trans,but I'm trans.

(01:06:59):
And I would get kicked outta myhouse if they knew.
Yeah.
So I have to stay in the closet,but thank you for having this
flag.
Yeah.
Because I walk by your houseanytime that I'm having a bad
day and it cheers me up, youknow?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, so that's why we put thebillboard up.
That's why we're doing thiswhole thing, is to let queer
kids know that there's.
A future and that it's, it'samazing, right?

(01:07:22):
Yeah.

Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

Van (01:07:23):
That's

so cool.
Awesome.

Van (01:07:24):
I can't wait.

Awesome.
Great.
Well, either should we saygoodbye?

Pacey (01:07:27):
Yeah, I think so.
Thank you so much, so much forbeing here.
Yeah.
Thanks for being here.
Have you, we'll have you onagain.

Yes.

Pacey (01:07:32):
And we'll see you all

at Ken County Pride.

Pacey (01:07:34):
Yeah.
June all.

Take care.
Bye-bye.

Van (01:07:40):
How do you feel that went?

Pacey (01:07:42):
That

was great.

Pacey (01:07:43):
Good?
Yeah.
Okay,

Van (01:07:44):
good.

Pacey (01:07:45):
I thought that that was fantastic

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