May 22, 2025 • 50 mins
Today on Trans Joy Boise, we welcome Asher, a trans local in Idaho whose viral TikTok post about wanting to flee the state with his pregnant wife caught our attention. From growing up in Washington to finding himself stuck in a small, conservative Idaho town, Asher shares the real-life struggles of trying to survive — and eventually escape — a place that feels increasingly unsafe for trans folks.
We dive into:
🏳️⚧️ Trans life in small-town Idaho
🔴 The rising boldness of anti-trans hostility
💼 The near impossibility of finding employment as a trans person
🏡 What it feels like to plan your escape from your home
🏳️🌈 Experiencing joy, safety, and community elsewhere — and dreaming of more
This isn’t just Asher’s story — it’s the story of thousands of trans people who are isolated, unseen, and unsupported in red states across the U.S.
📣 Let's get loud about trans joy, trans safety, and the right to thrive.
👉 If you're trans and trying to hold it together in a hostile environment, this episode is for you.
💬 Drop a comment to show Asher some love or share your own story.
🔔 Subscribe for more real, raw, and joyful conversations about trans life in Idaho and beyond.
🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple | YouTube | Amazon | Buzzsprout
💖 Support Asher & his Family: TikTok | Go Fund Me
#TransJoyBoise #TransVoices #TransLivesMatter #AsherStory #TransInIdaho #QueerPodcast #TransPodcast #TransTikTok #LGBTQ2SIA+ #EscapeRedStates #TransSafety #TransCommunity #TransRights #TransVisibility #TransIsBeautiful #TransJoy #IdahoTransLives #TikTokTrans #FreedomToBe #TransMigration #QueerResilience #PodcastWithPurpose 🎧🏳️⚧️
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bonnie Violet (00:00):
Hi everyone.
How's it going?
I'm Bonnie Violet, trans femme,genderqueer spiritual drag
artist, digital chaplain.
Pacey (00:05):
And I'm Pacey trans masc non-binary mental health and
recovery advocate
Bonnie Violet (00:09):
and welcome to Trans Joy Boise podcast, where
every story, laugh and act ofjoy is a stand for our
community.
Pacey (00:15):
We uplift bold voices, share real experiences, and
celebrate trans lives thriving.
Bonnie Violet (00:20):
Tune in, connect and spread the joy because trans
joy is
Pacey (00:24):
Unstoppable!!!.
Yes.
Yeah.
Nailed it that time.
That's a challenge.
I know, right?
23 episodes in, but we'regetting it.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Awesome.
And we have a guest here today.
We have Asher.
I had, um, saw Asher on TikTok,uh, just a couple days ago and
reached out to them and.
We'll learn a little bit moreabout Asher in a second, but do
(00:45):
you wanna introduce yourself alittle bit?
I Asher, um, I am local here toIdaho, and, um, yeah, I don't
really know what else to sayabout myself.
I'm, I'm born.
That's, no, that's, that's okay.
And so, um, yeah, with, so I sawyou on TikTok and, um, just like
flipping through TikTok and thenI saw you being like, Hey, help,
(01:07):
you know, like, my wife'spregnant.
I wanna get outta Idaho.
Yes.
And I was like, okay, you're inIdaho.
So that caught my attention, ofcourse.
And then I kind of listened toit a little bit and then I think
I checked back.
I don't know, it was like, itseemed like it might've been the
same day, or it might've beenjust a couple days later.
And then I saw that there was anupdate and it looked like you'd
been having some pretty positiveresponse.
(01:28):
And so that got me thinking Ishould reach out to you.
A lot of folks in our area andall across the country and even
places outside of the us.
Are at this point where they'refeeling like they need to leave
home.
And that's happening for a lotof different reasons.
And many of us don't have theprivilege or the ability to
(01:49):
leave home even if we wanted toor felt like we needed to,
regardless of how dangerous orhow, you know, unsafe we were
feeling.
Right.
And so we kind of wanted to heara little bit more about kind of
that.
So like what kind of caused youto decide to, should I No,
you're fine.
Oh my gosh.
(02:10):
Oh, I forgot to turn off all thedo not disturb bull crap.
Um, yeah.
So where's my phone?
'cause that's gonna keep makingthe noise too.
I have no idea.
So sorry about that.
You're good because that'sactually what I heard more.
I think so unprofessional.
(02:36):
Alright, little crop shot.
Alright, so we'll cut that outobviously.
So, um, love to hear a littlebit about kind of like, I think
I do wanna get into the decisionthat kind of got you.
To decide to move, but just tellme a little bit like, are you
(02:57):
from Idaho where you kind ofgrew up?
Tell me, tell us a little bitabout your originally, I'm from
Washington actually.
Okay.
And I grew up there in a littleghetto town and I moved here
like five years ago to be withmy sister who now lives in
Oregon.
Um, and yeah, I just kind of gotstuck here.
Tried to move a couple times,but it just didn't end up
working out.
(03:17):
But yeah, I've been here for awhile and have just been slowly.
Things have just got started toget a little more, not safe, I
guess, and people a littlebolder.
Mm-hmm.
About where they stand onthings.
And the town I live in is reallysmall and very red.
And so finding a job, there'sreally hard, I've only worked at
(03:40):
like three places in that townbecause they'll like me until
they see my id, and then I don'thear from them ever again, you
know?
Mm-hmm.
And so it's a little.
I don't know.
It's a little weird.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And how long have you been beenin Idaho?
Five years.
Since 2019.
Okay.
Awesome.
And, uh, what was it that kindof caused you to finally say,
(04:00):
that's it, I need to try to getoutta here.
How long have you been trying?
Um, it's been about a year of ustrying to plan to get out.
Um, let's see, the.
I would say probably just thepeople getting a lot bolder.
Like we, we will go to, we don'treally go out and do anything.
Like we don't have friends, wedon't go out into the movies or
anything like, just'cause it'snot safe.
(04:22):
And people will say things orlike, sometimes they'll come up
and just like try and talk andit's like, I'm not very big, I'm
a little guy, so not trying toget, you know, beat up.
But, um, yeah, just that.
And then.
Trying to find a job here isjust so impossible.
And then they don't treat youvery well anyway.
Mm-hmm.
So it's like, eh.
(04:43):
Yeah.
So it's kind of the combinationof not feeling safe where you're
at, having to be isolated andalone because of where you live.
And in part, like gettingconnected with community and
then that feeds into the abilityof like getting a job, which
then makes it even moredifficult to pay for your rent
and handle the things you need.
So it all just kind of likefeeds into itself.
Just makes it that much moredifficult.
(05:05):
I don't think people understandthat sometimes who aren't trans.
All the little like, oh, I'verealized it might be difficult
in this way, but it makes itdifficult in every aspect of
your life.
Yep.
Yeah.
It bleeds into everything.
Everything.
Exactly.
Absolutely everything.
Yeah.
Yeah, so it's, it can be reallydifficult to be like, I don't
know, like being in anenvironment that's hostile, but
I have a great job.
You know?
I mean, I think some folksmight, this boss doesn't dead
(05:26):
name me.
Yeah.
And there are some, I thinkthere are some places, but it is
a little bit more harder tothink.
I think to kind of get into thatfor a lot of folks, for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think so.
It's, God, I'm thinking like2019, when you came here, things
were so different.
I mean, things were so differentsix months ago, you know?
(05:46):
Yeah.
And it's like, it feels sounreal the things that we're
dealing with now, because likewe've talked about it so many
times that like even, you know,a year ago if I was thinking
about things that are happeningnow, I'd be like, no.
No way.
Like that would even be poorlywritten in a movie because
that's so dystopian and fuckingcruel and outlandish.
(06:10):
But now, like that's notreality.
And I think that facing thatreality and every facet of your
life that is affected by beingtrans, I think that we're
definitely at this pivotalmoment for a lot of people where
it's like, well, when do weleave?
Mm-hmm.
And I think for us, like we werejust in Washington DC for an
event, and for me.
(06:31):
It blew my mind to be somewherethat was so accepting.
Like there was a neighborhoodwith like businesses that were
queer and it was one of thosetowns that has like the, this
DuPont, yeah, yeah.
Like the rainbow crosswalks.
That's, and like the flags.
We went to a restaurant that wasqueer, like a whole ass
restaurant that was Fuck gay.
(06:52):
Yeah, it was gay as shit.
Like we walked in there and wehad just left a different
neighborhood that was very not,and as soon as we stepped in, we
were just kind of like.
I was a little nervous that thisguy, because he is like, Hey
bitches.
And I was like, okay, we're outthere.
We're in the right place.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because the Abraham before itwas actually the opposite, where
like there was actually like afight that was about to maybe
(07:13):
break out and it was actuallyrelated to like one of the, one
of the folks within the groupwas a stud, and the cis girls
were like not happy about it,not having it at all.
And so then the others were likesticking up for them and it was
this like.
And we thought, oh shit, we,we'd actually gotten out in the
wrong.
We thought we were in adifferent place than we were.
(07:34):
So we were in the wrongneighborhood.
Not in the sense that it waslike a sketch neighborhood.
Actually, I thought it was alittle too,'cause I was, I was
like, I'm not in, I'm not inBoise.
I'm gonna wear my, I'm gonnawear what I can't wear here.
There.
Right, right.
And so like, I have this likenetted shirt.
That I don't wear a bra with.
I just have like little cups orwhatever and so you can, it
doesn't look like I'm topless,but it's kind of like this cool
(07:57):
little, and so I was wearingthat, but we were like in this
neighborhood with like familiesand like it was just, I'm like,
it was a lot.
This is not DuPont.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And then we got to the otherneighborhood and it was like
super, completely differentexperience.
Yeah.
That's so cool.
But then like coming back herein comparison to that, it's
like.
It's, it's like going back intime.
(08:18):
But I feel like I've said ifthere's anything that I could
bring back from that experiencein DC to Idaho in particular or
other red states, is it isn'tlike this everywhere because I
thought that it was, I thoughtthat all of like the anti-trans,
you know, laws and bills thatwere coming through, I thought
that that was happeningeverywhere.
And it is to some degree, right?
(08:39):
Yeah.
But it's not as fucking shitkicking red.
As it is here.
Like there are other placeswhere it feels like progress is
not only possible, but likeeasy.
Yeah.
And it's like, so coming backhere, it's like, why?
Why?
Like why, why are we living likethis?
'cause and I, there are so manyreasons why we're staying.
Right.
But it makes it even moreunderstandable of wanting to
(09:04):
leave.
Yeah.
To like go somewhere where notonly would you be able to live
there comfortably, but you wouldbe celebrated.
Right.
You know?
So I totally get wanting to getoutta here for that reason.
Yeah, definitely.
Definitely.
Which was a bummer coming backtoo.
But yeah, it was so cool to bein a place that was that
accepting.
It was really cool.
(09:24):
In that aspect, I still alwayslike, yeah, it's like, yay gay
in a lot of places.
Mm-hmm.
I still wonder how the transstuff is, you know?
Yeah.
And it seems like still good,like those spaces are still
typically okay.
They're not hostile, at leastfor trans people.
Yeah.
It might not be as accepting asyou might.
Like, or whatever.
And we felt there, we felt fine.
There not, not a problem at all.
(09:45):
Yeah.
Um, but I, but I, but also inrelation to that, not to make it
about our recent trip, but theywere doing this like monument,
kind of like the AIDS quilt,where they brought, um, 250
panels from across the country.
There was over a thousand transpeople and allies who made these
panels.
Wow.
And they were displayed out onthe, the wash in the.
The Capitol park there and themall there, and they put'em out
(10:08):
in, they're like pink, blue andwhite.
And it said, freedom to be.
And it was really cool.
Idaho brought 24 panels, whichwas about 10% of all the panels
that were there.
Wow.
Which was like really awesome tosee.
And we were, I was excited to belike, okay, we're gonna go out
there.
Idaho did 24.
I'm like, I can't fucking waitto like see what other states
did and like, and we were like,we like did the most.
(10:31):
Wow.
Like, and we were like the most.
Yeah, it was like, they're like,oh, in Idaho they did this and
blah.
And we're like, okay.
And that's cool.
But I'm also like, where are allthe other, you know, I'm like,
if we did 24 then why didn'tCalifornia and Texas and you
know, some of these other placesdo more.
But I think, I think part of itis, is I think that we just
(10:52):
happen to be the right size.
That there is a lot of reallydifficult things for trans
people right now in Idaho, butthere's a lot of people that are
kind of stepping up.
So, yeah.
And trying to do stuff, I thinkour resources are still really
limited, so the things we can dois like maybe show up, like be
in the same space with oneanother.
Yeah.
It's not too much of likehelping with houses and rent and
(11:13):
even accessing gender affirmingcare all that much.
Right.
But we're at least like, Idunno, I feel like we're at
least mobilizing a little bit,whereas I think that there's
just some of the other parts ofthe country, it's not as urgent.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I'm not sure that's, yeah.
But it, it is.
Urgent here.
Yeah, it totally is.
Which feels so unfair.
(11:35):
We have to respond.
Yeah.
We can't just like, so while youguys are planning to leave, like
are you, where are you tryingto, well are you headed to a, a
bluer state, Oregon orWashington's the goal for sure.
Just'cause those are like transsafe states.
And then there's some towns, um,in Washington.
(11:55):
Specifically that are like arystates.
Yeah.
Isn't that Tacoma one of'em?
Yep.
Yeah.
Heard.
Yep.
They like just became one.
Mm-hmm.
And so trying to get somewhereover there just'cause it'd be so
much easier to like make, likemeet people.
Like we have three friends herein Idaho.
'cause people suck, like, andyou never know.
(12:17):
And so it's just kind of like,uh, but yeah, try and go
somewhere that we could.
Freeze our kid and not have toworry that we're gonna have her
taken from us because someonefound out I'm trans.
You know, like, or I don't know.
That's so terrible.
You never know.
Yeah.
Well I think that's anotheraspect that we maybe haven't
talked about too much, but it'syou and your wife and your soon
(12:38):
to be baby, right?
Yes.
So I'm sure that played a littlebit more of an element than just
like.
Very much it was just you.
Yeah, definitely.
Probably would've taken longerif it was just me, but I worry
for like them and just puttingthem in a situation like being
at the hospital and having toworry about like how they're
gonna treat us there.
Like, shouldn't have to worryabout that.
We're at a hospital, like she'sgonna have a baby, but, and
(13:01):
just, yeah, not knowing if likeCPS is gonna get involved
because they don't, you know,agree, support it or whatever.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and then justnitpicking everything, so.
Mm-hmm.
It's just.
Yeah.
Trying to get somewhere that wedon't have to worry about that.
No.
'cause they're trying to make itin other states where it is
considered like child abuse.
(13:22):
Yep.
Um, more so of if like you areallowing your, your child to, to
access gender affirming,affirming care, things like
that.
But I feel like it isn't too farout of the realm of possibility
that, you know, being a transparent.
Yeah.
Could be considered abusive.
(13:43):
And I know that it feels like,anyway, Idaho takes a lot of
cues from the deep, deep red,like Florida and Texas.
Yes.
So I feel like yeah, it's smartto kind of get a jump on that
because I think this nextlegislative session is gonna be
really aggressive.
Yeah.
And, and if we look at likehistory, granted gays and
(14:03):
lesbians are a lot more acceptednow, but they used gays and
lesbians used to lose theirkids.
Yeah.
You know, I have a cousin wholost her kid.
Like years ago.
My god.
In my little hometown.
Really?
Yeah.
So, um, so yeah, and it was justbecause she was a lesbian, like
she was divorced, all that sortof stuff, then was a lesbian and
(14:24):
she lost her kids.
That's terrible.
Yeah.
So I think it's definitelyreasonable concern to have, I am
to miss my best friend'swedding.
Um,'cause they live in Texas andI couldn't go'cause I, they have
a kid.
And I was worried that if wewere out somewhere or someone
saw that and reported it, theirkid would get taken.
And it's like, I can't put themin that situation, but like, and
(14:47):
I don't want to put my, my wifeor my kid in that situation.
Yeah.
Like yeah.
I think that's the thing that'ssometimes that I think is a lot
of people don't understand islike our transness and like we
can be like cool with ourtransness and we could still
like show up to that weddinganyway.
Right.
But I think there's also anelement of like, trying to
manage other people's Yeah.
(15:09):
That what could happen to otherpeople because of what?
Because of, of me.
Who we are.
Who we are.
Yep.
That's like a whole notherlayer.
'cause I've had, I've missed myniece's birthday because they
were having it outdoors at apublic pool.
And I was like, I don't want tolike, I just don't want there to
be any sort of drama.
I want this little girl to haveher fourth birthday.
(15:30):
You know what I mean?
Without any sort of like issue.
Could I deal with somebody beingcrazy?
Yes.
But I don't want her to have tosee that or have anything to do
with that.
So I think that's just a wholenother layer that I don't think
people really like think about.
Definitely.
It's so dystopian to even talkabout like all of these things.
It feels like a poorly written,dystopian futuristic novel.
(15:55):
Like, like Henman's Handmaid'sTale.
Yeah.
Yes.
Because when I, so I read thatbook in 2016.
And like right after Trump waselected and I was reading it and
I was like, this is a littlefarfetched.
Mm-hmm.
Like it's really, I love murderAtwoods prose.
Like the it, the writing wasjust so beautiful.
So like that got me through someof the parts where I was like,
(16:16):
really?
And then when I started, Iwatched the show late and I
watched it after theinsurrection had happened.
Mm.
So when people would ask melike, what is this about?
I would describe it as.
Oh, it's what would've happenedif the insurrection had been
successful.
Oh.
And now I'm watching it.
And it's like they took notesfrom the Handmaids.
(16:38):
Yeah.
So it's like this, this show,this story has completely
evolved with our administrationfrom like something that was so
farfetched to something that isactively happening.
Right.
And I hate that.
Well, and it's partly a part ofthe playbook that the Nazis in
Germany did.
Mm-hmm.
And that the Nazis in Germanytook from.
The US and our Jim Crow stuff.
(17:00):
And like, so it's like, it'snot, it's not a new playbook,
it's just a different targetgroup reputation.
Right?
Yeah.
Or a smaller subset.
'cause a lot of us were alwayspart of the group.
You know, there were queers andtrans people who were harmed.
Yeah.
Um, you know, within likeGermany and all of that.
And, um, we didn't, it wasn'ttalked about as much in the same
(17:22):
ways, but we were, and I thinkit's just the groups getting
smaller and smaller.
But, but it's always been us.
Yes.
To some degree.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Well, when we were in DC I wastalking to the other person that
went with us mm-hmm.
About, you know, about this verything.
Like, when is it time to leave?
Like, what would be my personalline in the sand?
(17:43):
Right.
And we were talking about thattheirs was, you know, really
realistic.
Um, what would you consideryours?
To be, it would probably be thefact that like, I can't go to a
doctor's office without beingadded to every single person
there.
Like I've sat in an officewaiting to be called back and I
(18:05):
hear the people at the frontdesk talking about me.
About what?
Like what it is, you know?
And it's like, oh wow.
Yeah.
It happens a lot, especially inthe town we're in and like
knowing that my wife.
Having the baby, like ifsomething were to go wrong,
there's nothing they legally ormedically will or can do.
(18:27):
Like they just won't.
And it's either just because ofthe laws or just'cause they
don't want to.
Mm-hmm.
And it's kind of a, like that'speople's lives like, like
Exactly.
And they have that law or wherenow it's like if you're a
healthcare provider, you canrefuse to give treatment.
Yeah.
Not in like emergency settings,but still.
(18:49):
Uh, if you don't believe insomeone's identity or whatever.
And that goes all the way downto even like pharmacists.
Yep.
You know, so there are all thesepeople that can look at you and
be like, oh, uh, that goesagainst my religion, or whatever
the fuck, like bigoted reasonthey have, and then just choose
to like, make your life reallydifficult.
Yep.
(19:09):
And I feel like that's a reallygood line to have, you know,
that's just like having fucking.
Um, integrity and value inyourself.
Mm-hmm.
To like, not want to put up withthat bullshit.
Yeah.
So what do you, what's yourline?
Oh, lord.
Uh, I have three.
Okay.
And it was back when, you know,years ago, which was actually
(19:33):
just like a couple months ago,and I was thinking, okay, my
lines are gonna be, if there arecamps, if there's martial law.
And if we have to start wearingidentifiers.
Mm-hmm.
And I feel like the camps arealready happening.
They are.
And you know, in, they justhaven't Right.
(19:54):
They're just in other countries.
Yeah.
And, and they haven't said transpeople.
Not yet.
Yeah, exactly.
So the camps are happening, butjust not for us yet.
Right.
And the martial law thing, Ifeel, is already, it's within a
hundred miles of around theborder and.
And that makes it dicey.
'cause it's like, can you reallyjust instate it in one spot and
(20:16):
not for the whole I, I don'tknow.
And then the identifiers, I feellike.
That's on its way.
A hundred percent.
I really do like the bathroomlaws.
Like Yeah.
I don't go to the bathroomwithout my, like my service dog
because I am not safe.
I don't feel safe.
Yeah.
I take him with me everywhere'cause people leave me alone.
(20:36):
Yeah.
Like, they're like, I would likedog sick.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For real.
Don't fuck him up.
Feel like the identifiers arealready there though.
Yeah.
'cause we're not allowed to haveour paperwork certain ways.
Or if we, if our like, like my,my.
My IDs don't have body violet onthem.
Right.
You know, so like already atthat, I'm already outed, right?
(20:58):
Mm-hmm.
As a trans person.
And so I think to some degreethat's an outing.
Yeah.
I know It's like a differentlevel than like a stamp or like
a patch or something on my body.
But I mean, but also like, Ilook like, I feel like I look
like a trans person most of thetime, so it's like, you know
what I mean?
So it's like it's, it's alwaysout there, but yeah.
And they want to like mark.
(21:18):
The like passports and birthcertificates that have been
changed.
So that's totally an identifier.
Like if you look at someone'spassport and it has a mark or a
code or something that says theychanged their gender marker,
it's like, okay, that's afucking identifier.
And you're right.
I think that that's, thatabsolutely counts.
I think in my mind I was justthinking more of like the, you
(21:39):
know, like you have to wear thiscolor patch if you are supposed
to use the women's room or likesome bullshit like that.
Right, right.
Because.
What we've seen with thebathroom, like bounty laws, they
don't know how to enforce it.
Yeah.
And the hearings like, we'relike, how are you going to
enforce it?
And they're like, uh, and theydon't know they hadn't.
It is like, I want to believethat they just hadn't thought
(22:00):
that far out.
But there's also the possibilitythat they have thought that far
out.
They're just not ready to likestart talking about it yet.
Mm-hmm.
And that shit really scares me.
Yeah.
But it's like two of my threehave already been crossed and
I'm still here.
Mm.
So, yeah, I don't know.
What about you?
(22:20):
I, it's really hard.
I think right now I feel likeI'm not leaving anywhere until
my mom dies.
Yeah.
And only because she's reallyill right now.
Like she's probably got a yearor two more and like, I just
don't, I don't know.
I feel like it would take a lotfor me to like leave my mom.
Yeah.
And I haven't really thoughtspecifically what that looks
(22:41):
like.
I mean, I've even went to thepoint of like my partner.
Moving away and me not goingwith him.
Yeah.
You know, so, and to me I feellike that's a, yeah.
You know, that's something Idon't want to have to do, but,
you know, it's something I'vethought about, but I haven't
really thought too criticallyabout like, what's my trans
specific line?
(23:02):
Yeah.
That's gonna cause me to, to go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, that's fair.
I think in my mind, I justassumed that I would make my
mom.
Go with me, so, well, there'slike, there's that.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's that, I guess.
But I, it feels,'cause whenwe're here, everything feels so
(23:22):
dire and like it is going tohappen.
This horrible shit is right ontop of us.
But somewhere blue, like whenyou guys leave, I feel like it's
not going to feel as imminent.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, because that was the vibethat I had the whole weekend was
like, oh, we have a chance.
Yeah.
You know, like we have peoplehope.
Yeah.
There's hope.
People are actively fighting forus.
(23:43):
Yeah.
And it didn't seem as bad, butlike when you come back here,
it's just like, that's all youcan really think about.
The world's on fire.
Yeah, definitely.
So and so it really soundedlike, like once you were gonna
become a dad had to deal withthe hospitals and that sort of
stuff, it really became like,this is not okay.
Yeah.
Just putting my family at risk,putting an innocent kid at risk,
(24:06):
like mm-hmm.
And my wife, like, they're not,it's not their fault.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, it's not, it's, it's justmessed up.
And it's not like your faulteither.
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean?
Like you're just a trans person.
It's other people's shit.
Just trying to Yeah.
Totally understand.
And kind of, uh, Pacey kind ofalluded to the fact that you're
(24:28):
getting outta here.
Do you want to talk to us alittle bit about the fact that
you're gonna get out of here andwhat you needed to do to make
that happen?
Yeah.
Um, I made a GoFundMe.
It like took a little while.
I was just posting on Facebookfor a while and like Instagram,
but I wasn't, I was just gettinga lot of negative response on
there.
Okay.
Like what I was ending up on,like the wrong side of that
(24:51):
stuff.
So a lot of transphobic, like,you should just stay there.
Like, why are you even doing,like, you're, you're lying.
All this stuff.
And I'm like, uh.
Alright, so I ended up going toTikTok mm-hmm.
And made videos on there and ittook about a week before I made
one that actually got sometraction and it blew up.
It was crazy.
(25:11):
It was like overnight, um, thatjust so many people have from
all over the world have donatedand have like, supported us and
given us ideas and like goodplaces to go and not so safe
places to go.
Mm-hmm.
And it's been really.
Crazy.
Like it was incredible.
It was crazy.
(25:31):
I did not expect it have tohappen at all.
Like, but um, yeah, the, thepositive response on there has
been mind blowing.
Do you wanna tell us a littlebit about what your plan is?
What you feel comfortable withsaying?
Yeah, we're um, just trying to,right now finding a place, a
house that we can like rent out.
(25:53):
'cause we do have our dog andthen a couple cats.
And then obviously the baby.
Yeah.
Uh, just, yeah.
Trying to find something in oneof the, those two blue states
and one of the blue areas.
Um, so we can, I can transfer myjob over to wherever it's, we
(26:13):
end up going.
Gotcha.
Um, and kind of starting overbasically that'll be, and you're
gonna be able to transfer yourjob.
Yeah.
It's gonna be okay.
Yeah.
Should be.
That's good.
That's lucky.
'cause that's, if not findsomething close enough, you
know?
Right.
Yeah.
I think it'll be reallyexciting.
Like it sucks having to leave.
(26:34):
Right.
Yeah.
And I think that there are a lotof people that feel upset or I
don't know, guilt, whatever,weird.
Like whatever thing they'refeeling about having to leave or
wanting to leave.
I think it's also reallyexciting and it's gonna be a
really cool opportunity to startover.
You know?
Definitely like you get to live.
F your truth in a place that ismore accepting.
(26:57):
Mm-hmm.
And you don't have to constantlybe worrying about things that
you shouldn't have to beworrying about.
You know, that's, I think that'sreally fucking cool.
Totally.
And you said potentiallyWashington, and in the beginning
you said you were fromWashington.
Yeah.
Is there a past, is there apossibility to kind of move
back?
Near with your family or is thatnot a Um, my family's, uh, sadly
very transphobic trans.
(27:17):
Yeah.
Um, they're not supportive atall.
And so they, it's just kind ofbeen us, you know?
Yeah.
Just, yeah.
No, I get, I get it.
Yeah.
Many of us get it,unfortunately.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Not so fun, but either way,you're gonna get to go to
somewhere.
Yes.
And I know you've been kind oflike, I think part of that, from
what I was listening in some ofthe videos too, it's like, just
(27:38):
talk about like.
A mobile home or buying a place,or renting a place like, or
whatever.
Trying to just find, yeah, justwhatever options we can.
I've messaged quite a fewpeople.
It's just a lot of people don'twanna wait until like, I don't
know, we're able to get there orwhatever.
You know?
Or they don't want, they don'twant to do it because we live so
far away and we can't be thereto, you know, do all of the
(28:02):
stuff in person.
And it's just people don'trespond very much.
Sense.
Yeah.
What do you, what do you thinkyour timeline is?
When do you think You'all aregonna be able to leave?
July 1st or the first week atleast is our goal For sure.
That's, that's coming out aroundthe corner.
Yeah.
So they don't have to wait thatlong.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
I'm like, I'm willing to payyou.
(28:22):
Right.
It's crazy.
I'll send you some money.
We'll figure out when we getthere.
Right.
Oh wow.
Literally, that's gonna be a, acool time to move.
Especially like if you, if youdo go to Washington,'cause it's
gonna be nice weather.
It's gonna be beautiful.
You go to the beach.
Right now on Pride Month, haveyou been able to connect with
any of the, there are like somegroups that maybe are a little
(28:44):
more underground, that are kindof helping people relocate.
Have you been able to connectwith any of those?
I've reached out to a few of'em.
Um, I have, I've never reallyheard back from most of'em.
Yeah, I did.
We did attempt the one to tryand get to like Canada.
Um, but then I got an email justsaying that our situation wasn't
dire enough and so Okay.
(29:05):
It was.
Yeah.
Just either never responded orwas just yeah.
Told that it wasn't, it wasn'tenough.
We have a couple of connectionsI wanna try to connect you with.
Okay.
Afterwards, I won't say itonline here, but like, um, that
might be able to help with maybeeven if it's just like if you
find a city or place you want togo that might be able to help
you once you land there Right.
(29:26):
Or that sort of thing.
Um, so I think we have a coupleof folks that I think we could
probably connect you with.
That'd be awesome.
Mm-hmm.
For sure.
Um.
But, you know, I don't know.
I think that's part of thechallenges is like we do hear a
lot of these things aboutsupport for trans people, but
then to be able to actually getthat get into it Yeah.
Can be really, uh, difficult.
(29:46):
Very.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's really cool.
I'm excited for you.
Thank you.
Me too.
And I know like, uh, how haveyou been doing with the, the bad
responses that you've beengetting on social media?
Has TikTok been bad?
As well?
Or has it been Mostly just all,sometimes some, you know, you
get your trolls, but for themost part it was Facebook that
(30:07):
people would just message me andlike, Facebook is awesome.
Be like, we don't want yourmental illness here.
And I'm like, okay.
They don't want you either, butyou know.
Mm-hmm.
It is what it is.
Like there's always gonna behaters, you know?
Right.
Oh yeah.
Well, I mean, even on TikTok,there's like, our algorithm is
(30:28):
good.
But there's a whole other side,that algorithm that's fucking
terrible.
Like all these maggots with liketheir Republican makeup and
their fucking red hats and theirbigotry and fucking whatever
else.
They're like, God knows, right?
Yeah.
And sometimes, and I feel likeit's not that they just
(30:48):
accidentally fall into ouralgorithm.
It's either like some searchesthat they're doing that they
don't tell people about thatputs'em on our side, or they're
looking.
To just be hateful.
Yep.
And it's easy to like put in thesearch bar, whatever they're
looking for and land on ourcontent.
Yeah.
And that's draining.
Yeah.
You know,'cause these people,they don't, they're not there
(31:09):
in, in good faith.
They're not trying to learn,they're not trying to have a
dialogue with you.
They're just there to spreadhatred and ignorance.
Yeah.
Complete strangers.
Yeah.
It's like, it's fuckingexhausting.
Yeah.
And I don't.
I still,'cause I get that likeevery fucking day and I still,
there are some that I'm justlike, it can ruin my entire day.
(31:33):
Yeah.
Which is silly'cause you'relike, this is a fucking random
complete stranger.
Stranger on like, maybe theother side of the country and
I'm letting it get to me.
But it's hard not to when it'slike something so deeply
personal about you.
Yeah.
It's, it's normal.
We all, we take in everythingthat's around us.
Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
So whether it's positive,negative, or what we have to.
Take that in some way somehow.
(31:55):
And there's only so much of likerepellent that you can, you
know?
Yeah.
You still have to transtransform it into something and
that takes exactly some effort.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if you're in a, in a way,some days I feel ugly and if
somebody online tells me I'mugly, I'm like, it's gonna hurt.
Yeah, exactly.
And I'm feeling, and I'm feelinggood.
You can't tell me shit.
But if I'm like not in the righthead space and I read that shit,
(32:17):
it's just gonna feed right into,it's like, you're right.
I know.
Yep.
It's like, yeah, I am.
Mm-hmm.
Thank you.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, you're right.
I, it's like I have a certainamount of like bullshit
tolerance.
Mm-hmm.
And then it wears down, it wearsdown, it wears down, and then
finally, like the dumbest thingcan break through it.
(32:37):
And I'm like, and that's usuallywhen I'm like, okay, I need to
take some time away.
Yeah.
And sometimes I, I allow my, Itend to not be like someone who
responds back to people, butevery now and again, I have to,
yeah.
Like it just.
But they'll just hit somethingjust right and I'll be like, and
you're like, yeah, no, I get it.
My fucking partner does that.
(32:58):
And I'm like, you're gonna get,you're gonna upset yourself.
Mm-hmm.
And I'll, every once in a while,I'll look and I'll see them just
like curled up on the couch,just feverishly typing.
And I'm like, why?
Why?
Because, and they will gothrough the posts.
'cause some of the, I thinkmemes or things that I've
shared, they have like 20,000likes or whatever.
(33:18):
So like there's a.
Buttload of like horrificcomments on there.
And they'll go through andthey'll just like start these
intense, and like, my partner'sreally fucking smart, like
really good at debate, all ofthese things.
And I'm like, I, this is areally well articulated, like,
thought out point that you have,but this person's just gonna be
(33:39):
like, ha gay or whatever.
And it's like, and then they getupset by it.
And I'm like, you just, youcan't, it's not worth it, you
know?
Yeah.
But it is, it's sweet.
Yeah.
But I know that it's just like,they just wanna protect you a
little bit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you just can't, you can'targue with these people.
Yeah.
And sometimes, I don't know, Icould tell you about some of the
(34:04):
conversations off of this'cause,you know.
Yeah, yeah.
A little bit.
So, um, there are other folksthat are probably in a similar
situation that you're in.
Is there anything that youwould.
Do you have any suggestions ormessages to them?
Mostly just not to give up hope.
Like, I don't know.
I reached a point where I prettymuch had before I got to went to
(34:26):
TikTok and had that response.
'cause I was just like, I'mliterally begging at this point
'cause I can't do it by myself.
Like, and I know there's somany, like so many people are in
the same position, they can'tfinancially support.
Like be able to do it or theirjob won't let them do it, or
their family, you know,something, something's stopping
them and it just not to give uphopee that it can't happen.
(34:49):
And also not to give up hopeethat the police that you're at
can't get better.
Right.
Like, it can, it can and itshould one day like, but it's
just being able to wake up everyday and do that.
Right.
And can you give us a sense ofhow long it's taken you?
To get to where you can, likesince you started to where you
can leave, man, we've beentrying to leave since we got
(35:13):
together and it's been almostthree years, so, okay.
Yeah, I think that's importantfor people to understand too,
that this wasn't like, notovernight, you just woke up one
day and you were like, okay, Idon't wanna be here anymore.
I'm gonna get on TikTok, I'mgonna raise Yeah.
Quite a bit of money and I'mjust gonna bounce.
Right?
Yep.
Yeah, so I think I just, and I,so I think that's really great
that you said that too, likekeep up the hope, like.
(35:35):
It took you three years to getto this point.
And I will say that I think yourvideo, you know, you might have
just posted it in in six daysand it was like, but you had to
one, get to TikTok and by thetime you got to TikTok, like
your, your desperation, youremotions came through very
clearly in that video.
(35:56):
And it probably took you threeyears of like really struggling
and trying everything to get tothat point.
Definitely.
I, I tried to stay.
Yeah.
No, I feel for you.
I feel that, I feel for you thatthat's been your experience.
Um, and I'm so happy that youare getting an opportunity for
you and your family to go andhave a new and better experience
(36:17):
and experience that you deserveand that we all deserve.
You know what I mean?
Definitely.
Yeah.
And that's partially really whyI want to do up beyond here so
that people could see that, um,what's possible.
And that what it might look likeor sound like, um, to be
struggling and then, and then toget, choose to get away.
'cause I think a lot of peoplealso feel guilty Yes.
(36:42):
That they get to leave.
Has, is that anything?
You've definitely can talk alittle bit about that.
Yeah.
I, I have so many friends herewho are trying to do the same
thing.
They're all trying to get toWashington and it sucks because,
you know, like, it's like wewere blessed with this and.
And they're not in that sameposition.
Mm-hmm.
Like, they're still strugglingand it's like, it's hard.
(37:06):
It's hard because I want to helpall of them.
I wish I could, you know, I wishI could just take up everyone
with me, but like, I can't, andI just, I don't know.
It's hard to separate yourselffrom that a little bit because
it's just, it's like I careabout them so much and I want'em
to be safe.
Yeah.
Because they're in the exactsame shit, but yeah.
(37:27):
Like, well, and I think in otherways they might choose to see
what you're doing and see thatit can happen for them too.
Yeah.
You know, so it doesn't have tobe like, oh, they get to go on.
I'm stuck here.
I mean, that's an attitudesomebody could have about it.
Definitely.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
Um, and that's reasonable andokay.
Or whatever.
Or they could see what you didand the luck or however way you
(37:49):
want to like craft it or labelyou're getting to go.
Right?
Right.
And so they know it's possible.
Yes.
And I think that's just asimportant.
And I know people, when peopleask me like if I should go or
you know, stay or those sorts ofthings, there's definitely that
idea of like guilt or something.
You know, it's just like, don'tfeel guilty.
(38:10):
If you can go out and have adifferent and better experience
for yourself, go freaking do it.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Like if you wanna go forwhatever reason, you could wanna
go because like.
You can get surgeries and youwanna get pretty, and like, you
know what I mean?
Like, I don't care.
Right.
If that's drawn the goal, youknow, like there's no, no need
to feel guilty or bad about it.
(38:31):
We only live once and there's noreason and there's nothing like
powerful or there's nothing moreto, because what you stayed here
and suffered like right.
There's mm-hmm.
There's nothing earned by thatnecessarily.
If you choose to fight here andlike, like that's a whole nother
thing too, and it's just like.
I think the thing that's mostimportant is like, you do what
(38:53):
you need to do for you and likeyou and your family now.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Definitely.
Like, and kind of move and movefrom there.
Like I, I hope that more andmore people leave that, um, have
even an inkling to go.
Yeah.
Because I think regardless oflike transness or not, we were
talking about another personwho's moving away earlier.
(39:14):
Mm-hmm.
And I was like.
I would tell a 20-year-old tomove to San Francisco anyway.
Who grew up here?
Yeah.
Like regardless of thesituation.
Especially a trans person,right?
Mm-hmm.
Um,'cause you can always comeback home.
Now there's all these extralayers of like, you know, our
livelihoods are very restrictedand things are different here,
so of course get the heck out,you know?
(39:35):
Yeah.
So, but I think outside ofwhat's happening in the world,
I'd still be like, yeah, go.
Yeah, you can always come back.
Definitely.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
People move all the time.
Totally.
Yeah.
But I think when you're young oryou've always been in the same
place, or you have like yourgroup of people that you feel
really good around, it's hard tojust like get up and go.
(39:56):
And I think that's the otherchallenge that you have is like,
okay, I'm gonna leave and maybeI'm gonna have access to gender
affirming care.
I'm not gonna, I'm gonna feelsafe walking down the road.
Mm-hmm.
But am I gonna be able to makefriends?
I'm gonna have to make newfriends again.
Am I, you know,'cause that takestime.
Yeah.
You know, so it's like, it'sthat, what, what's, what's more
(40:18):
important or what is it that Ineed now to nourish me and make
me feel good?
Do I need, do I need to feelsafe when I'm on the street?
Or I need to be close to myfriends?
Right.
And it's, it's different for allof us at different times of our
lives.
People can be weird about ittoo.
I remember I had a conversationa while ago with someone who,
they weren't trans, but they'requeer, and I was talking about
(40:41):
wanting to leave.
This was.
Over a year ago, so before themarch, before any of that.
Mm-hmm.
And they said in a way that Icouldn't tell if it was
intentional or not, but theysaid, oh, well I wouldn't just
leave.
I'm gonna stay here and fight.
Mm.
And it was so dismissive in theway that they said I wouldn't
(41:02):
just leave.
And I was like, I shouldn't haveto be on the front lines.
Fighting this thing when thereare other ways that I would
rather be fighting.
Yeah.
Like I'm gonna be going to lawschool.
I wanna be on the front linesfrom within and trying to be
challenging these laws.
Right.
That doesn't make it any lessimportant or valid.
Mm-hmm.
Like we all are fighting thisthing in the ways that we have
(41:26):
the capacity for, and they'reall just as important and vital
as the last.
Yeah.
It takes all of it, you know, ittakes all of it.
Right.
Exactly.
So I think, you know, maybethere's a sense of.
Of jealousy that some peoplecan't leave and like that's how
they're, you know, justifying itto themselves.
Mm-hmm.
Like, oh, well I don't need toleave'cause I'm strong enough to
stay in fight.
And it's like, we need that, butwe also need everything else.
(41:47):
Yeah.
I've also been hearing a lot ofpeople like.
Fellow queer people from Idahoin my comments being like, oh,
it's not that bad.
You're being dramatic and allthis and that.
And I'm like, you live here, youmean?
I'm like, it's right.
You enjoyed your rights notbeing there.
Yeah, that's fine.
But, but also I, I think it's awhole nother layer.
Like I queer people.
(42:07):
Mm-hmm.
Gays, lesbians don't.
Yeah.
There's a difference in beingtrans.
Yeah.
You know, there are some queerfolks that are more non-binary
appearing or.
Look like something's going on,so they might deal with crap,
but for the most part, they'renot dealing with all the layers
because we kind, we feel thattransphobia and discrimination
(42:29):
and bias within our owncommunity.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
So it's like even the safeplaces, the gay bars, the gay AA
meetings, the like whatever,they're really not for us.
Yeah.
You know?
And so, but we have to kind ofmake it work.
You know what I mean?
And so I think there's thatextra layer that like, yeah, if
I had gay bars to go to and gayclubs and things to do, then why
(42:52):
would I go?
But there's, there's just not,there's a disconnect in that
right now that I think somepeople just aren't
understanding.
Yeah.
And I lived as a fag for awhile.
First, I was a gay boy for like40 years, so I, I was not the
great.
Pissed.
I had my own internalizedtransphobia and Oh yeah.
And things going on, and I don'twant to put that onto all other
(43:13):
gay and lesbian people, but Iknow that was a lot of my own
experience and I had my ownissues of being called a sissy
and a girl.
You're too girly and goof.
And trying to like fight thatperception and be like, no, I'm
a dude who likes dudes.
I'm not a dude that wants to bea girl.
You know?
And then like then kind of getinto the point, well, I can be a
dude and like wear a skirt andbe a bearded lady.
(43:35):
And like, yeah.
And then it's like.
Bitch.
Yeah.
You're pro.
Yeah, you're trans.
Now.
Just own in, go through it, youknow?
Mm-hmm.
And it's been a journey, butbecause of where I was at,
right?
I did my best to try to like seetrans people and understand
trans people and be an ally.
And in a lot of ways I was, butin a lot of ways I just was so
(43:58):
blind, I was so unable to reallysee that they were having a
vastly different experience thanI was.
And I did, I had no concept forit until I started to live into
it.
Right.
So I don't really blame people.
Um, it's their privilege andthat's what privilege is, right?
Yep.
Yeah.
It's a lot of privilege,especially now lot, it takes a
lot of fucking privilege to beable to tell someone it's not
(44:21):
that bad, but it's never, itnever goes over Well, if you're
like, if you tell them that,yeah.
Like, oh, that's your privilegeshowing, and then you're just
like, okay, here comes thiswhole ass meltdown.
Right.
Well, it's, it's the, the whitepeople kind of thing.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Like privilege is a.
It's a bad word or a like, it'sa, um.
Mm-hmm.
It's a, I mean, it's just thetruth.
We all have privilege at somepoint in time.
(44:43):
Of course, in certain settingsand certain environments.
We have certain privilege.
There's pretty privilege,there's racial privilege,
there's age, privilege, there'sall these different sorts of
things depending on where you'reat.
And that's just what it is.
Yeah.
And you can either recognizethat or feel some sort of way
about it.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
(45:03):
I just think that that privilegecould be used in more effective
ways than, you know, bringingpeople down that are going
through it.
You know, like people withprivilege could be phenomenal
allies if they want to.
Maybe we should, you know, allyharness that privilege in other
ways.
Yeah.
(45:25):
Ally allies, ally, so, yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
Well, that's good.
I know, I think feeling likethat's an episode.
Is there anything else you wouldlike to say or talk about?
Do you have questions aboutanything or that you Not really,
no.
Um, can folks still help youout?
Like, are you still in need?
Yeah.
Uh, just like really looking forconnections right now.
(45:47):
Kind of just trying to findsomewhere to go.
So that's the biggest struggleright now.
Awesome.
So, okay.
So you haven't necessarily foundlike a city or an area that you
go, not a definite yet.
So you're pretty open.
Yeah.
It's really just the right.
Oregon or Washington.
Right.
And then the right opportunity.
Yeah.
Um, okay.
Well, we'll definitely likeinclude your, uh, contact, like
(46:10):
through TikTok, probably thebest way or Yeah, just my
TikTok.
Okay.
Um, I, all my links are there.
Yeah.
I'll put all your links in thedescription of stuff.
So folks wanna get a hold ofpasture, um, and stay connected
and follow your journey.
Um, they can check it out there.
Totally.
And I wish you and your wife andyour baby to be a wonderful
(46:31):
journey.
Thank you so much and help youstay in touch.
It's really great.
Good to meet y'all.
Yeah, absolutely.
And we keep looking over there'cause Jordan's off camera, but
um Yeah.
But that's why we're looking soit's really great that you're
all here with us today.
Yeah.
Yes.
Thank you for having us.
Of course.
Yeah.
You're gonna have to let us knowhow it all goes'cause I'm really
interested in the whole process.
Very much.
And it's gonna be great.
Thank you.
To be somewhere else.
(46:52):
We're pretty excited.
I'm, I'm rooting for Washingtonfor y'all just because I, it
seems like same, just like thesanctuary cities.
I think like if you have theopportunity to go to a sanctuary
city, like that's what I wouldwant to do.
Probably just to be like, I amin the bluest.
Yeah.
The dot the state.
Yeah.
(47:12):
Can't touch those.
Absolutely.
When your transness isn't athing and you can be.
Challenge with just being afather.
Yeah, exactly.
That's a job in and of itself,like, you know, and that's
exciting and awesome, but yes,it takes a lot to do, you know?
Exactly.
So, um, yeah, sometimes we haveto.
Yeah.
I'm just so happy for you.
I wish you guys the best.
Thank you so much.
(47:33):
And, uh, when this is on, whenyou can actually watch this,
tomorrow will be the Trans JoyCafe.
It's gonna be from 12 to fourat.
6,200 Garrett Street and it'sgonna be barbecue and hot luck
and games.
It's gonna be resource fair.
We're gonna have a lot of folksthere with different resources
(47:55):
that we need.
And like my partner's gonna bethere again doing chair massage,
all sorts of stuff.
It's fun.
Which is great.
I know.
I don't let no one touchmassage.
I'm like that person and I tooka picture of them, a massage.
No, they were, you're both likeso.
White.
White.
And we were both getting so redand I was like, oh shit.
Because we're like out on theside, like, oh, just like red,
(48:16):
red.
Yeah.
So it'll be a really good timeand I hope that if you can make
it, that you come down and seeus.
Yeah, it's free.
There's food, there's bevy.
If you wanna sign up to bringsome food, that's cute.
But you don't have to, if you'rea vendor who wants like a
resource, a person who canprovide a resource, hit us up.
We have a little link on ourstuff that you can sign up for
(48:36):
if you wanna.
Run a volleyball game or mm-hmm.
Do something just, just, youknow, like this is basically
family coming together, so it'slike whatever people want to
contribute.
Mm-hmm.
That's so cool.
Contribute.
Yeah.
We do it once a month too.
Oh, cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That'll be fun.
Okay.
I think that's it.
Bye bitches.
All right.
See you next week.
Hi everyone.
How's it going?
I'm Bonnie Violet, trans femme,genderqueer spiritual drag
artist, digital chaplain.
Pacey (00:05):
And I'm Pacey trans masc non-binary mental health and
recovery advocate
Bonnie Violet (00:09):
and welcome to Trans Joy Boise podcast, where
every story, laugh and act ofjoy is a stand for our
community.
Pacey (00:15):
We uplift bold voices, share real experiences, and
celebrate trans lives thriving.
Bonnie Violet (00:20):
Tune in, connect and spread the joy because trans
joy is
Pacey (00:24):
Unstoppable!!!.
Yes.
Yeah.
Nailed it that time.
That's a challenge.
I know, right?
23 episodes in, but we'regetting it.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Awesome.
And we have a guest here today.
We have Asher.
I had, um, saw Asher on TikTok,uh, just a couple days ago and
reached out to them and.
We'll learn a little bit moreabout Asher in a second, but do
(00:45):
you wanna introduce yourself alittle bit?
I Asher, um, I am local here toIdaho, and, um, yeah, I don't
really know what else to sayabout myself.
I'm, I'm born.
That's, no, that's, that's okay.
And so, um, yeah, with, so I sawyou on TikTok and, um, just like
flipping through TikTok and thenI saw you being like, Hey, help,
(01:07):
you know, like, my wife'spregnant.
I wanna get outta Idaho.
Yes.
And I was like, okay, you're inIdaho.
So that caught my attention, ofcourse.
And then I kind of listened toit a little bit and then I think
I checked back.
I don't know, it was like, itseemed like it might've been the
same day, or it might've beenjust a couple days later.
And then I saw that there was anupdate and it looked like you'd
been having some pretty positiveresponse.
(01:28):
And so that got me thinking Ishould reach out to you.
A lot of folks in our area andall across the country and even
places outside of the us.
Are at this point where they'refeeling like they need to leave
home.
And that's happening for a lotof different reasons.
And many of us don't have theprivilege or the ability to
(01:49):
leave home even if we wanted toor felt like we needed to,
regardless of how dangerous orhow, you know, unsafe we were
feeling.
Right.
And so we kind of wanted to heara little bit more about kind of
that.
So like what kind of caused youto decide to, should I No,
you're fine.
Oh my gosh.
(02:10):
Oh, I forgot to turn off all thedo not disturb bull crap.
Um, yeah.
So where's my phone?
'cause that's gonna keep makingthe noise too.
I have no idea.
So sorry about that.
You're good because that'sactually what I heard more.
I think so unprofessional.
(02:36):
Alright, little crop shot.
Alright, so we'll cut that outobviously.
So, um, love to hear a littlebit about kind of like, I think
I do wanna get into the decisionthat kind of got you.
To decide to move, but just tellme a little bit like, are you
(02:57):
from Idaho where you kind ofgrew up?
Tell me, tell us a little bitabout your originally, I'm from
Washington actually.
Okay.
And I grew up there in a littleghetto town and I moved here
like five years ago to be withmy sister who now lives in
Oregon.
Um, and yeah, I just kind of gotstuck here.
Tried to move a couple times,but it just didn't end up
working out.
(03:17):
But yeah, I've been here for awhile and have just been slowly.
Things have just got started toget a little more, not safe, I
guess, and people a littlebolder.
Mm-hmm.
About where they stand onthings.
And the town I live in is reallysmall and very red.
And so finding a job, there'sreally hard, I've only worked at
(03:40):
like three places in that townbecause they'll like me until
they see my id, and then I don'thear from them ever again, you
know?
Mm-hmm.
And so it's a little.
I don't know.
It's a little weird.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And how long have you been beenin Idaho?
Five years.
Since 2019.
Okay.
Awesome.
And, uh, what was it that kindof caused you to finally say,
(04:00):
that's it, I need to try to getoutta here.
How long have you been trying?
Um, it's been about a year of ustrying to plan to get out.
Um, let's see, the.
I would say probably just thepeople getting a lot bolder.
Like we, we will go to, we don'treally go out and do anything.
Like we don't have friends, wedon't go out into the movies or
anything like, just'cause it'snot safe.
(04:22):
And people will say things orlike, sometimes they'll come up
and just like try and talk andit's like, I'm not very big, I'm
a little guy, so not trying toget, you know, beat up.
But, um, yeah, just that.
And then.
Trying to find a job here isjust so impossible.
And then they don't treat youvery well anyway.
Mm-hmm.
So it's like, eh.
(04:43):
Yeah.
So it's kind of the combinationof not feeling safe where you're
at, having to be isolated andalone because of where you live.
And in part, like gettingconnected with community and
then that feeds into the abilityof like getting a job, which
then makes it even moredifficult to pay for your rent
and handle the things you need.
So it all just kind of likefeeds into itself.
Just makes it that much moredifficult.
(05:05):
I don't think people understandthat sometimes who aren't trans.
All the little like, oh, I'verealized it might be difficult
in this way, but it makes itdifficult in every aspect of
your life.
Yep.
Yeah.
It bleeds into everything.
Everything.
Exactly.
Absolutely everything.
Yeah.
Yeah, so it's, it can be reallydifficult to be like, I don't
know, like being in anenvironment that's hostile, but
I have a great job.
You know?
I mean, I think some folksmight, this boss doesn't dead
(05:26):
name me.
Yeah.
And there are some, I thinkthere are some places, but it is
a little bit more harder tothink.
I think to kind of get into thatfor a lot of folks, for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think so.
It's, God, I'm thinking like2019, when you came here, things
were so different.
I mean, things were so differentsix months ago, you know?
(05:46):
Yeah.
And it's like, it feels sounreal the things that we're
dealing with now, because likewe've talked about it so many
times that like even, you know,a year ago if I was thinking
about things that are happeningnow, I'd be like, no.
No way.
Like that would even be poorlywritten in a movie because
that's so dystopian and fuckingcruel and outlandish.
(06:10):
But now, like that's notreality.
And I think that facing thatreality and every facet of your
life that is affected by beingtrans, I think that we're
definitely at this pivotalmoment for a lot of people where
it's like, well, when do weleave?
Mm-hmm.
And I think for us, like we werejust in Washington DC for an
event, and for me.
(06:31):
It blew my mind to be somewherethat was so accepting.
Like there was a neighborhoodwith like businesses that were
queer and it was one of thosetowns that has like the, this
DuPont, yeah, yeah.
Like the rainbow crosswalks.
That's, and like the flags.
We went to a restaurant that wasqueer, like a whole ass
restaurant that was Fuck gay.
(06:52):
Yeah, it was gay as shit.
Like we walked in there and wehad just left a different
neighborhood that was very not,and as soon as we stepped in, we
were just kind of like.
I was a little nervous that thisguy, because he is like, Hey
bitches.
And I was like, okay, we're outthere.
We're in the right place.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because the Abraham before itwas actually the opposite, where
like there was actually like afight that was about to maybe
(07:13):
break out and it was actuallyrelated to like one of the, one
of the folks within the groupwas a stud, and the cis girls
were like not happy about it,not having it at all.
And so then the others were likesticking up for them and it was
this like.
And we thought, oh shit, we,we'd actually gotten out in the
wrong.
We thought we were in adifferent place than we were.
(07:34):
So we were in the wrongneighborhood.
Not in the sense that it waslike a sketch neighborhood.
Actually, I thought it was alittle too,'cause I was, I was
like, I'm not in, I'm not inBoise.
I'm gonna wear my, I'm gonnawear what I can't wear here.
There.
Right, right.
And so like, I have this likenetted shirt.
That I don't wear a bra with.
I just have like little cups orwhatever and so you can, it
doesn't look like I'm topless,but it's kind of like this cool
(07:57):
little, and so I was wearingthat, but we were like in this
neighborhood with like familiesand like it was just, I'm like,
it was a lot.
This is not DuPont.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And then we got to the otherneighborhood and it was like
super, completely differentexperience.
Yeah.
That's so cool.
But then like coming back herein comparison to that, it's
like.
It's, it's like going back intime.
(08:18):
But I feel like I've said ifthere's anything that I could
bring back from that experiencein DC to Idaho in particular or
other red states, is it isn'tlike this everywhere because I
thought that it was, I thoughtthat all of like the anti-trans,
you know, laws and bills thatwere coming through, I thought
that that was happeningeverywhere.
And it is to some degree, right?
(08:39):
Yeah.
But it's not as fucking shitkicking red.
As it is here.
Like there are other placeswhere it feels like progress is
not only possible, but likeeasy.
Yeah.
And it's like, so coming backhere, it's like, why?
Why?
Like why, why are we living likethis?
'cause and I, there are so manyreasons why we're staying.
Right.
But it makes it even moreunderstandable of wanting to
(09:04):
leave.
Yeah.
To like go somewhere where notonly would you be able to live
there comfortably, but you wouldbe celebrated.
Right.
You know?
So I totally get wanting to getoutta here for that reason.
Yeah, definitely.
Definitely.
Which was a bummer coming backtoo.
But yeah, it was so cool to bein a place that was that
accepting.
It was really cool.
(09:24):
In that aspect, I still alwayslike, yeah, it's like, yay gay
in a lot of places.
Mm-hmm.
I still wonder how the transstuff is, you know?
Yeah.
And it seems like still good,like those spaces are still
typically okay.
They're not hostile, at leastfor trans people.
Yeah.
It might not be as accepting asyou might.
Like, or whatever.
And we felt there, we felt fine.
There not, not a problem at all.
(09:45):
Yeah.
Um, but I, but I, but also inrelation to that, not to make it
about our recent trip, but theywere doing this like monument,
kind of like the AIDS quilt,where they brought, um, 250
panels from across the country.
There was over a thousand transpeople and allies who made these
panels.
Wow.
And they were displayed out onthe, the wash in the.
The Capitol park there and themall there, and they put'em out
(10:08):
in, they're like pink, blue andwhite.
And it said, freedom to be.
And it was really cool.
Idaho brought 24 panels, whichwas about 10% of all the panels
that were there.
Wow.
Which was like really awesome tosee.
And we were, I was excited to belike, okay, we're gonna go out
there.
Idaho did 24.
I'm like, I can't fucking waitto like see what other states
did and like, and we were like,we like did the most.
(10:31):
Wow.
Like, and we were like the most.
Yeah, it was like, they're like,oh, in Idaho they did this and
blah.
And we're like, okay.
And that's cool.
But I'm also like, where are allthe other, you know, I'm like,
if we did 24 then why didn'tCalifornia and Texas and you
know, some of these other placesdo more.
But I think, I think part of itis, is I think that we just
(10:52):
happen to be the right size.
That there is a lot of reallydifficult things for trans
people right now in Idaho, butthere's a lot of people that are
kind of stepping up.
So, yeah.
And trying to do stuff, I thinkour resources are still really
limited, so the things we can dois like maybe show up, like be
in the same space with oneanother.
Yeah.
It's not too much of likehelping with houses and rent and
(11:13):
even accessing gender affirmingcare all that much.
Right.
But we're at least like, Idunno, I feel like we're at
least mobilizing a little bit,whereas I think that there's
just some of the other parts ofthe country, it's not as urgent.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I'm not sure that's, yeah.
But it, it is.
Urgent here.
Yeah, it totally is.
Which feels so unfair.
(11:35):
We have to respond.
Yeah.
We can't just like, so while youguys are planning to leave, like
are you, where are you tryingto, well are you headed to a, a
bluer state, Oregon orWashington's the goal for sure.
Just'cause those are like transsafe states.
And then there's some towns, um,in Washington.
(11:55):
Specifically that are like arystates.
Yeah.
Isn't that Tacoma one of'em?
Yep.
Yeah.
Heard.
Yep.
They like just became one.
Mm-hmm.
And so trying to get somewhereover there just'cause it'd be so
much easier to like make, likemeet people.
Like we have three friends herein Idaho.
'cause people suck, like, andyou never know.
(12:17):
And so it's just kind of like,uh, but yeah, try and go
somewhere that we could.
Freeze our kid and not have toworry that we're gonna have her
taken from us because someonefound out I'm trans.
You know, like, or I don't know.
That's so terrible.
You never know.
Yeah.
Well I think that's anotheraspect that we maybe haven't
talked about too much, but it'syou and your wife and your soon
(12:38):
to be baby, right?
Yes.
So I'm sure that played a littlebit more of an element than just
like.
Very much it was just you.
Yeah, definitely.
Probably would've taken longerif it was just me, but I worry
for like them and just puttingthem in a situation like being
at the hospital and having toworry about like how they're
gonna treat us there.
Like, shouldn't have to worryabout that.
We're at a hospital, like she'sgonna have a baby, but, and
(13:01):
just, yeah, not knowing if likeCPS is gonna get involved
because they don't, you know,agree, support it or whatever.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and then justnitpicking everything, so.
Mm-hmm.
It's just.
Yeah.
Trying to get somewhere that wedon't have to worry about that.
No.
'cause they're trying to make itin other states where it is
considered like child abuse.
(13:22):
Yep.
Um, more so of if like you areallowing your, your child to, to
access gender affirming,affirming care, things like
that.
But I feel like it isn't too farout of the realm of possibility
that, you know, being a transparent.
Yeah.
Could be considered abusive.
(13:43):
And I know that it feels like,anyway, Idaho takes a lot of
cues from the deep, deep red,like Florida and Texas.
Yes.
So I feel like yeah, it's smartto kind of get a jump on that
because I think this nextlegislative session is gonna be
really aggressive.
Yeah.
And, and if we look at likehistory, granted gays and
(14:03):
lesbians are a lot more acceptednow, but they used gays and
lesbians used to lose theirkids.
Yeah.
You know, I have a cousin wholost her kid.
Like years ago.
My god.
In my little hometown.
Really?
Yeah.
So, um, so yeah, and it was justbecause she was a lesbian, like
she was divorced, all that sortof stuff, then was a lesbian and
(14:24):
she lost her kids.
That's terrible.
Yeah.
So I think it's definitelyreasonable concern to have, I am
to miss my best friend'swedding.
Um,'cause they live in Texas andI couldn't go'cause I, they have
a kid.
And I was worried that if wewere out somewhere or someone
saw that and reported it, theirkid would get taken.
And it's like, I can't put themin that situation, but like, and
(14:47):
I don't want to put my, my wifeor my kid in that situation.
Yeah.
Like yeah.
I think that's the thing that'ssometimes that I think is a lot
of people don't understand islike our transness and like we
can be like cool with ourtransness and we could still
like show up to that weddinganyway.
Right.
But I think there's also anelement of like, trying to
manage other people's Yeah.
(15:09):
That what could happen to otherpeople because of what?
Because of, of me.
Who we are.
Who we are.
Yep.
That's like a whole notherlayer.
'cause I've had, I've missed myniece's birthday because they
were having it outdoors at apublic pool.
And I was like, I don't want tolike, I just don't want there to
be any sort of drama.
I want this little girl to haveher fourth birthday.
(15:30):
You know what I mean?
Without any sort of like issue.
Could I deal with somebody beingcrazy?
Yes.
But I don't want her to have tosee that or have anything to do
with that.
So I think that's just a wholenother layer that I don't think
people really like think about.
Definitely.
It's so dystopian to even talkabout like all of these things.
It feels like a poorly written,dystopian futuristic novel.
(15:55):
Like, like Henman's Handmaid'sTale.
Yeah.
Yes.
Because when I, so I read thatbook in 2016.
And like right after Trump waselected and I was reading it and
I was like, this is a littlefarfetched.
Mm-hmm.
Like it's really, I love murderAtwoods prose.
Like the it, the writing wasjust so beautiful.
So like that got me through someof the parts where I was like,
(16:16):
really?
And then when I started, Iwatched the show late and I
watched it after theinsurrection had happened.
Mm.
So when people would ask melike, what is this about?
I would describe it as.
Oh, it's what would've happenedif the insurrection had been
successful.
Oh.
And now I'm watching it.
And it's like they took notesfrom the Handmaids.
(16:38):
Yeah.
So it's like this, this show,this story has completely
evolved with our administrationfrom like something that was so
farfetched to something that isactively happening.
Right.
And I hate that.
Well, and it's partly a part ofthe playbook that the Nazis in
Germany did.
Mm-hmm.
And that the Nazis in Germanytook from.
The US and our Jim Crow stuff.
(17:00):
And like, so it's like, it'snot, it's not a new playbook,
it's just a different targetgroup reputation.
Right?
Yeah.
Or a smaller subset.
'cause a lot of us were alwayspart of the group.
You know, there were queers andtrans people who were harmed.
Yeah.
Um, you know, within likeGermany and all of that.
And, um, we didn't, it wasn'ttalked about as much in the same
(17:22):
ways, but we were, and I thinkit's just the groups getting
smaller and smaller.
But, but it's always been us.
Yes.
To some degree.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Well, when we were in DC I wastalking to the other person that
went with us mm-hmm.
About, you know, about this verything.
Like, when is it time to leave?
Like, what would be my personalline in the sand?
(17:43):
Right.
And we were talking about thattheirs was, you know, really
realistic.
Um, what would you consideryours?
To be, it would probably be thefact that like, I can't go to a
doctor's office without beingadded to every single person
there.
Like I've sat in an officewaiting to be called back and I
(18:05):
hear the people at the frontdesk talking about me.
About what?
Like what it is, you know?
And it's like, oh wow.
Yeah.
It happens a lot, especially inthe town we're in and like
knowing that my wife.
Having the baby, like ifsomething were to go wrong,
there's nothing they legally ormedically will or can do.
(18:27):
Like they just won't.
And it's either just because ofthe laws or just'cause they
don't want to.
Mm-hmm.
And it's kind of a, like that'speople's lives like, like
Exactly.
And they have that law or wherenow it's like if you're a
healthcare provider, you canrefuse to give treatment.
Yeah.
Not in like emergency settings,but still.
(18:49):
Uh, if you don't believe insomeone's identity or whatever.
And that goes all the way downto even like pharmacists.
Yep.
You know, so there are all thesepeople that can look at you and
be like, oh, uh, that goesagainst my religion, or whatever
the fuck, like bigoted reasonthey have, and then just choose
to like, make your life reallydifficult.
Yep.
(19:09):
And I feel like that's a reallygood line to have, you know,
that's just like having fucking.
Um, integrity and value inyourself.
Mm-hmm.
To like, not want to put up withthat bullshit.
Yeah.
So what do you, what's yourline?
Oh, lord.
Uh, I have three.
Okay.
And it was back when, you know,years ago, which was actually
(19:33):
just like a couple months ago,and I was thinking, okay, my
lines are gonna be, if there arecamps, if there's martial law.
And if we have to start wearingidentifiers.
Mm-hmm.
And I feel like the camps arealready happening.
They are.
And you know, in, they justhaven't Right.
(19:54):
They're just in other countries.
Yeah.
And, and they haven't said transpeople.
Not yet.
Yeah, exactly.
So the camps are happening, butjust not for us yet.
Right.
And the martial law thing, Ifeel, is already, it's within a
hundred miles of around theborder and.
And that makes it dicey.
'cause it's like, can you reallyjust instate it in one spot and
(20:16):
not for the whole I, I don'tknow.
And then the identifiers, I feellike.
That's on its way.
A hundred percent.
I really do like the bathroomlaws.
Like Yeah.
I don't go to the bathroomwithout my, like my service dog
because I am not safe.
I don't feel safe.
Yeah.
I take him with me everywhere'cause people leave me alone.
(20:36):
Yeah.
Like, they're like, I would likedog sick.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For real.
Don't fuck him up.
Feel like the identifiers arealready there though.
Yeah.
'cause we're not allowed to haveour paperwork certain ways.
Or if we, if our like, like my,my.
My IDs don't have body violet onthem.
Right.
You know, so like already atthat, I'm already outed, right?
(20:58):
Mm-hmm.
As a trans person.
And so I think to some degreethat's an outing.
Yeah.
I know It's like a differentlevel than like a stamp or like
a patch or something on my body.
But I mean, but also like, Ilook like, I feel like I look
like a trans person most of thetime, so it's like, you know
what I mean?
So it's like it's, it's alwaysout there, but yeah.
And they want to like mark.
(21:18):
The like passports and birthcertificates that have been
changed.
So that's totally an identifier.
Like if you look at someone'spassport and it has a mark or a
code or something that says theychanged their gender marker,
it's like, okay, that's afucking identifier.
And you're right.
I think that that's, thatabsolutely counts.
I think in my mind I was justthinking more of like the, you
(21:39):
know, like you have to wear thiscolor patch if you are supposed
to use the women's room or likesome bullshit like that.
Right, right.
Because.
What we've seen with thebathroom, like bounty laws, they
don't know how to enforce it.
Yeah.
And the hearings like, we'relike, how are you going to
enforce it?
And they're like, uh, and theydon't know they hadn't.
It is like, I want to believethat they just hadn't thought
(22:00):
that far out.
But there's also the possibilitythat they have thought that far
out.
They're just not ready to likestart talking about it yet.
Mm-hmm.
And that shit really scares me.
Yeah.
But it's like two of my threehave already been crossed and
I'm still here.
Mm.
So, yeah, I don't know.
What about you?
(22:20):
I, it's really hard.
I think right now I feel likeI'm not leaving anywhere until
my mom dies.
Yeah.
And only because she's reallyill right now.
Like she's probably got a yearor two more and like, I just
don't, I don't know.
I feel like it would take a lotfor me to like leave my mom.
Yeah.
And I haven't really thoughtspecifically what that looks
(22:41):
like.
I mean, I've even went to thepoint of like my partner.
Moving away and me not goingwith him.
Yeah.
You know, so, and to me I feellike that's a, yeah.
You know, that's something Idon't want to have to do, but,
you know, it's something I'vethought about, but I haven't
really thought too criticallyabout like, what's my trans
specific line?
(23:02):
Yeah.
That's gonna cause me to, to go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, that's fair.
I think in my mind, I justassumed that I would make my
mom.
Go with me, so, well, there'slike, there's that.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's that, I guess.
But I, it feels,'cause whenwe're here, everything feels so
(23:22):
dire and like it is going tohappen.
This horrible shit is right ontop of us.
But somewhere blue, like whenyou guys leave, I feel like it's
not going to feel as imminent.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, because that was the vibethat I had the whole weekend was
like, oh, we have a chance.
Yeah.
You know, like we have peoplehope.
Yeah.
There's hope.
People are actively fighting forus.
(23:43):
Yeah.
And it didn't seem as bad, butlike when you come back here,
it's just like, that's all youcan really think about.
The world's on fire.
Yeah, definitely.
So and so it really soundedlike, like once you were gonna
become a dad had to deal withthe hospitals and that sort of
stuff, it really became like,this is not okay.
Yeah.
Just putting my family at risk,putting an innocent kid at risk,
(24:06):
like mm-hmm.
And my wife, like, they're not,it's not their fault.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, it's not, it's, it's justmessed up.
And it's not like your faulteither.
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean?
Like you're just a trans person.
It's other people's shit.
Just trying to Yeah.
Totally understand.
And kind of, uh, Pacey kind ofalluded to the fact that you're
(24:28):
getting outta here.
Do you want to talk to us alittle bit about the fact that
you're gonna get out of here andwhat you needed to do to make
that happen?
Yeah.
Um, I made a GoFundMe.
It like took a little while.
I was just posting on Facebookfor a while and like Instagram,
but I wasn't, I was just gettinga lot of negative response on
there.
Okay.
Like what I was ending up on,like the wrong side of that
(24:51):
stuff.
So a lot of transphobic, like,you should just stay there.
Like, why are you even doing,like, you're, you're lying.
All this stuff.
And I'm like, uh.
Alright, so I ended up going toTikTok mm-hmm.
And made videos on there and ittook about a week before I made
one that actually got sometraction and it blew up.
It was crazy.
(25:11):
It was like overnight, um, thatjust so many people have from
all over the world have donatedand have like, supported us and
given us ideas and like goodplaces to go and not so safe
places to go.
Mm-hmm.
And it's been really.
Crazy.
Like it was incredible.
It was crazy.
(25:31):
I did not expect it have tohappen at all.
Like, but um, yeah, the, thepositive response on there has
been mind blowing.
Do you wanna tell us a littlebit about what your plan is?
What you feel comfortable withsaying?
Yeah, we're um, just trying to,right now finding a place, a
house that we can like rent out.
(25:53):
'cause we do have our dog andthen a couple cats.
And then obviously the baby.
Yeah.
Uh, just, yeah.
Trying to find something in oneof the, those two blue states
and one of the blue areas.
Um, so we can, I can transfer myjob over to wherever it's, we
(26:13):
end up going.
Gotcha.
Um, and kind of starting overbasically that'll be, and you're
gonna be able to transfer yourjob.
Yeah.
It's gonna be okay.
Yeah.
Should be.
That's good.
That's lucky.
'cause that's, if not findsomething close enough, you
know?
Right.
Yeah.
I think it'll be reallyexciting.
Like it sucks having to leave.
(26:34):
Right.
Yeah.
And I think that there are a lotof people that feel upset or I
don't know, guilt, whatever,weird.
Like whatever thing they'refeeling about having to leave or
wanting to leave.
I think it's also reallyexciting and it's gonna be a
really cool opportunity to startover.
You know?
Definitely like you get to live.
F your truth in a place that ismore accepting.
(26:57):
Mm-hmm.
And you don't have to constantlybe worrying about things that
you shouldn't have to beworrying about.
You know, that's, I think that'sreally fucking cool.
Totally.
And you said potentiallyWashington, and in the beginning
you said you were fromWashington.
Yeah.
Is there a past, is there apossibility to kind of move
back?
Near with your family or is thatnot a Um, my family's, uh, sadly
very transphobic trans.
(27:17):
Yeah.
Um, they're not supportive atall.
And so they, it's just kind ofbeen us, you know?
Yeah.
Just, yeah.
No, I get, I get it.
Yeah.
Many of us get it,unfortunately.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Not so fun, but either way,you're gonna get to go to
somewhere.
Yes.
And I know you've been kind oflike, I think part of that, from
what I was listening in some ofthe videos too, it's like, just
(27:38):
talk about like.
A mobile home or buying a place,or renting a place like, or
whatever.
Trying to just find, yeah, justwhatever options we can.
I've messaged quite a fewpeople.
It's just a lot of people don'twanna wait until like, I don't
know, we're able to get there orwhatever.
You know?
Or they don't want, they don'twant to do it because we live so
far away and we can't be thereto, you know, do all of the
(28:02):
stuff in person.
And it's just people don'trespond very much.
Sense.
Yeah.
What do you, what do you thinkyour timeline is?
When do you think You'all aregonna be able to leave?
July 1st or the first week atleast is our goal For sure.
That's, that's coming out aroundthe corner.
Yeah.
So they don't have to wait thatlong.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
I'm like, I'm willing to payyou.
(28:22):
Right.
It's crazy.
I'll send you some money.
We'll figure out when we getthere.
Right.
Oh wow.
Literally, that's gonna be a, acool time to move.
Especially like if you, if youdo go to Washington,'cause it's
gonna be nice weather.
It's gonna be beautiful.
You go to the beach.
Right now on Pride Month, haveyou been able to connect with
any of the, there are like somegroups that maybe are a little
(28:44):
more underground, that are kindof helping people relocate.
Have you been able to connectwith any of those?
I've reached out to a few of'em.
Um, I have, I've never reallyheard back from most of'em.
Yeah, I did.
We did attempt the one to tryand get to like Canada.
Um, but then I got an email justsaying that our situation wasn't
dire enough and so Okay.
(29:05):
It was.
Yeah.
Just either never responded orwas just yeah.
Told that it wasn't, it wasn'tenough.
We have a couple of connectionsI wanna try to connect you with.
Okay.
Afterwards, I won't say itonline here, but like, um, that
might be able to help with maybeeven if it's just like if you
find a city or place you want togo that might be able to help
you once you land there Right.
(29:26):
Or that sort of thing.
Um, so I think we have a coupleof folks that I think we could
probably connect you with.
That'd be awesome.
Mm-hmm.
For sure.
Um.
But, you know, I don't know.
I think that's part of thechallenges is like we do hear a
lot of these things aboutsupport for trans people, but
then to be able to actually getthat get into it Yeah.
Can be really, uh, difficult.
(29:46):
Very.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's really cool.
I'm excited for you.
Thank you.
Me too.
And I know like, uh, how haveyou been doing with the, the bad
responses that you've beengetting on social media?
Has TikTok been bad?
As well?
Or has it been Mostly just all,sometimes some, you know, you
get your trolls, but for themost part it was Facebook that
(30:07):
people would just message me andlike, Facebook is awesome.
Be like, we don't want yourmental illness here.
And I'm like, okay.
They don't want you either, butyou know.
Mm-hmm.
It is what it is.
Like there's always gonna behaters, you know?
Right.
Oh yeah.
Well, I mean, even on TikTok,there's like, our algorithm is
(30:28):
good.
But there's a whole other side,that algorithm that's fucking
terrible.
Like all these maggots with liketheir Republican makeup and
their fucking red hats and theirbigotry and fucking whatever
else.
They're like, God knows, right?
Yeah.
And sometimes, and I feel likeit's not that they just
(30:48):
accidentally fall into ouralgorithm.
It's either like some searchesthat they're doing that they
don't tell people about thatputs'em on our side, or they're
looking.
To just be hateful.
Yep.
And it's easy to like put in thesearch bar, whatever they're
looking for and land on ourcontent.
Yeah.
And that's draining.
Yeah.
You know,'cause these people,they don't, they're not there
(31:09):
in, in good faith.
They're not trying to learn,they're not trying to have a
dialogue with you.
They're just there to spreadhatred and ignorance.
Yeah.
Complete strangers.
Yeah.
It's like, it's fuckingexhausting.
Yeah.
And I don't.
I still,'cause I get that likeevery fucking day and I still,
there are some that I'm justlike, it can ruin my entire day.
(31:33):
Yeah.
Which is silly'cause you'relike, this is a fucking random
complete stranger.
Stranger on like, maybe theother side of the country and
I'm letting it get to me.
But it's hard not to when it'slike something so deeply
personal about you.
Yeah.
It's, it's normal.
We all, we take in everythingthat's around us.
Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
So whether it's positive,negative, or what we have to.
Take that in some way somehow.
(31:55):
And there's only so much of likerepellent that you can, you
know?
Yeah.
You still have to transtransform it into something and
that takes exactly some effort.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if you're in a, in a way,some days I feel ugly and if
somebody online tells me I'mugly, I'm like, it's gonna hurt.
Yeah, exactly.
And I'm feeling, and I'm feelinggood.
You can't tell me shit.
But if I'm like not in the righthead space and I read that shit,
(32:17):
it's just gonna feed right into,it's like, you're right.
I know.
Yep.
It's like, yeah, I am.
Mm-hmm.
Thank you.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, you're right.
I, it's like I have a certainamount of like bullshit
tolerance.
Mm-hmm.
And then it wears down, it wearsdown, it wears down, and then
finally, like the dumbest thingcan break through it.
(32:37):
And I'm like, and that's usuallywhen I'm like, okay, I need to
take some time away.
Yeah.
And sometimes I, I allow my, Itend to not be like someone who
responds back to people, butevery now and again, I have to,
yeah.
Like it just.
But they'll just hit somethingjust right and I'll be like, and
you're like, yeah, no, I get it.
My fucking partner does that.
(32:58):
And I'm like, you're gonna get,you're gonna upset yourself.
Mm-hmm.
And I'll, every once in a while,I'll look and I'll see them just
like curled up on the couch,just feverishly typing.
And I'm like, why?
Why?
Because, and they will gothrough the posts.
'cause some of the, I thinkmemes or things that I've
shared, they have like 20,000likes or whatever.
(33:18):
So like there's a.
Buttload of like horrificcomments on there.
And they'll go through andthey'll just like start these
intense, and like, my partner'sreally fucking smart, like
really good at debate, all ofthese things.
And I'm like, I, this is areally well articulated, like,
thought out point that you have,but this person's just gonna be
(33:39):
like, ha gay or whatever.
And it's like, and then they getupset by it.
And I'm like, you just, youcan't, it's not worth it, you
know?
Yeah.
But it is, it's sweet.
Yeah.
But I know that it's just like,they just wanna protect you a
little bit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you just can't, you can'targue with these people.
Yeah.
And sometimes, I don't know, Icould tell you about some of the
(34:04):
conversations off of this'cause,you know.
Yeah, yeah.
A little bit.
So, um, there are other folksthat are probably in a similar
situation that you're in.
Is there anything that youwould.
Do you have any suggestions ormessages to them?
Mostly just not to give up hope.
Like, I don't know.
I reached a point where I prettymuch had before I got to went to
(34:26):
TikTok and had that response.
'cause I was just like, I'mliterally begging at this point
'cause I can't do it by myself.
Like, and I know there's somany, like so many people are in
the same position, they can'tfinancially support.
Like be able to do it or theirjob won't let them do it, or
their family, you know,something, something's stopping
them and it just not to give uphopee that it can't happen.
(34:49):
And also not to give up hopeethat the police that you're at
can't get better.
Right.
Like, it can, it can and itshould one day like, but it's
just being able to wake up everyday and do that.
Right.
And can you give us a sense ofhow long it's taken you?
To get to where you can, likesince you started to where you
can leave, man, we've beentrying to leave since we got
(35:13):
together and it's been almostthree years, so, okay.
Yeah, I think that's importantfor people to understand too,
that this wasn't like, notovernight, you just woke up one
day and you were like, okay, Idon't wanna be here anymore.
I'm gonna get on TikTok, I'mgonna raise Yeah.
Quite a bit of money and I'mjust gonna bounce.
Right?
Yep.
Yeah, so I think I just, and I,so I think that's really great
that you said that too, likekeep up the hope, like.
(35:35):
It took you three years to getto this point.
And I will say that I think yourvideo, you know, you might have
just posted it in in six daysand it was like, but you had to
one, get to TikTok and by thetime you got to TikTok, like
your, your desperation, youremotions came through very
clearly in that video.
(35:56):
And it probably took you threeyears of like really struggling
and trying everything to get tothat point.
Definitely.
I, I tried to stay.
Yeah.
No, I feel for you.
I feel that, I feel for you thatthat's been your experience.
Um, and I'm so happy that youare getting an opportunity for
you and your family to go andhave a new and better experience
(36:17):
and experience that you deserveand that we all deserve.
You know what I mean?
Definitely.
Yeah.
And that's partially really whyI want to do up beyond here so
that people could see that, um,what's possible.
And that what it might look likeor sound like, um, to be
struggling and then, and then toget, choose to get away.
'cause I think a lot of peoplealso feel guilty Yes.
(36:42):
That they get to leave.
Has, is that anything?
You've definitely can talk alittle bit about that.
Yeah.
I, I have so many friends herewho are trying to do the same
thing.
They're all trying to get toWashington and it sucks because,
you know, like, it's like wewere blessed with this and.
And they're not in that sameposition.
Mm-hmm.
Like, they're still strugglingand it's like, it's hard.
(37:06):
It's hard because I want to helpall of them.
I wish I could, you know, I wishI could just take up everyone
with me, but like, I can't, andI just, I don't know.
It's hard to separate yourselffrom that a little bit because
it's just, it's like I careabout them so much and I want'em
to be safe.
Yeah.
Because they're in the exactsame shit, but yeah.
(37:27):
Like, well, and I think in otherways they might choose to see
what you're doing and see thatit can happen for them too.
Yeah.
You know, so it doesn't have tobe like, oh, they get to go on.
I'm stuck here.
I mean, that's an attitudesomebody could have about it.
Definitely.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
Um, and that's reasonable andokay.
Or whatever.
Or they could see what you didand the luck or however way you
(37:49):
want to like craft it or labelyou're getting to go.
Right?
Right.
And so they know it's possible.
Yes.
And I think that's just asimportant.
And I know people, when peopleask me like if I should go or
you know, stay or those sorts ofthings, there's definitely that
idea of like guilt or something.
You know, it's just like, don'tfeel guilty.
(38:10):
If you can go out and have adifferent and better experience
for yourself, go freaking do it.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Like if you wanna go forwhatever reason, you could wanna
go because like.
You can get surgeries and youwanna get pretty, and like, you
know what I mean?
Like, I don't care.
Right.
If that's drawn the goal, youknow, like there's no, no need
to feel guilty or bad about it.
(38:31):
We only live once and there's noreason and there's nothing like
powerful or there's nothing moreto, because what you stayed here
and suffered like right.
There's mm-hmm.
There's nothing earned by thatnecessarily.
If you choose to fight here andlike, like that's a whole nother
thing too, and it's just like.
I think the thing that's mostimportant is like, you do what
(38:53):
you need to do for you and likeyou and your family now.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Definitely.
Like, and kind of move and movefrom there.
Like I, I hope that more andmore people leave that, um, have
even an inkling to go.
Yeah.
Because I think regardless oflike transness or not, we were
talking about another personwho's moving away earlier.
(39:14):
Mm-hmm.
And I was like.
I would tell a 20-year-old tomove to San Francisco anyway.
Who grew up here?
Yeah.
Like regardless of thesituation.
Especially a trans person,right?
Mm-hmm.
Um,'cause you can always comeback home.
Now there's all these extralayers of like, you know, our
livelihoods are very restrictedand things are different here,
so of course get the heck out,you know?
(39:35):
Yeah.
So, but I think outside ofwhat's happening in the world,
I'd still be like, yeah, go.
Yeah, you can always come back.
Definitely.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
People move all the time.
Totally.
Yeah.
But I think when you're young oryou've always been in the same
place, or you have like yourgroup of people that you feel
really good around, it's hard tojust like get up and go.
(39:56):
And I think that's the otherchallenge that you have is like,
okay, I'm gonna leave and maybeI'm gonna have access to gender
affirming care.
I'm not gonna, I'm gonna feelsafe walking down the road.
Mm-hmm.
But am I gonna be able to makefriends?
I'm gonna have to make newfriends again.
Am I, you know,'cause that takestime.
Yeah.
You know, so it's like, it'sthat, what, what's, what's more
(40:18):
important or what is it that Ineed now to nourish me and make
me feel good?
Do I need, do I need to feelsafe when I'm on the street?
Or I need to be close to myfriends?
Right.
And it's, it's different for allof us at different times of our
lives.
People can be weird about ittoo.
I remember I had a conversationa while ago with someone who,
they weren't trans, but they'requeer, and I was talking about
(40:41):
wanting to leave.
This was.
Over a year ago, so before themarch, before any of that.
Mm-hmm.
And they said in a way that Icouldn't tell if it was
intentional or not, but theysaid, oh, well I wouldn't just
leave.
I'm gonna stay here and fight.
Mm.
And it was so dismissive in theway that they said I wouldn't
(41:02):
just leave.
And I was like, I shouldn't haveto be on the front lines.
Fighting this thing when thereare other ways that I would
rather be fighting.
Yeah.
Like I'm gonna be going to lawschool.
I wanna be on the front linesfrom within and trying to be
challenging these laws.
Right.
That doesn't make it any lessimportant or valid.
Mm-hmm.
Like we all are fighting thisthing in the ways that we have
(41:26):
the capacity for, and they'reall just as important and vital
as the last.
Yeah.
It takes all of it, you know, ittakes all of it.
Right.
Exactly.
So I think, you know, maybethere's a sense of.
Of jealousy that some peoplecan't leave and like that's how
they're, you know, justifying itto themselves.
Mm-hmm.
Like, oh, well I don't need toleave'cause I'm strong enough to
stay in fight.
And it's like, we need that, butwe also need everything else.
(41:47):
Yeah.
I've also been hearing a lot ofpeople like.
Fellow queer people from Idahoin my comments being like, oh,
it's not that bad.
You're being dramatic and allthis and that.
And I'm like, you live here, youmean?
I'm like, it's right.
You enjoyed your rights notbeing there.
Yeah, that's fine.
But, but also I, I think it's awhole nother layer.
Like I queer people.
(42:07):
Mm-hmm.
Gays, lesbians don't.
Yeah.
There's a difference in beingtrans.
Yeah.
You know, there are some queerfolks that are more non-binary
appearing or.
Look like something's going on,so they might deal with crap,
but for the most part, they'renot dealing with all the layers
because we kind, we feel thattransphobia and discrimination
(42:29):
and bias within our owncommunity.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
So it's like even the safeplaces, the gay bars, the gay AA
meetings, the like whatever,they're really not for us.
Yeah.
You know?
And so, but we have to kind ofmake it work.
You know what I mean?
And so I think there's thatextra layer that like, yeah, if
I had gay bars to go to and gayclubs and things to do, then why
(42:52):
would I go?
But there's, there's just not,there's a disconnect in that
right now that I think somepeople just aren't
understanding.
Yeah.
And I lived as a fag for awhile.
First, I was a gay boy for like40 years, so I, I was not the
great.
Pissed.
I had my own internalizedtransphobia and Oh yeah.
And things going on, and I don'twant to put that onto all other
(43:13):
gay and lesbian people, but Iknow that was a lot of my own
experience and I had my ownissues of being called a sissy
and a girl.
You're too girly and goof.
And trying to like fight thatperception and be like, no, I'm
a dude who likes dudes.
I'm not a dude that wants to bea girl.
You know?
And then like then kind of getinto the point, well, I can be a
dude and like wear a skirt andbe a bearded lady.
(43:35):
And like, yeah.
And then it's like.
Bitch.
Yeah.
You're pro.
Yeah, you're trans.
Now.
Just own in, go through it, youknow?
Mm-hmm.
And it's been a journey, butbecause of where I was at,
right?
I did my best to try to like seetrans people and understand
trans people and be an ally.
And in a lot of ways I was, butin a lot of ways I just was so
(43:58):
blind, I was so unable to reallysee that they were having a
vastly different experience thanI was.
And I did, I had no concept forit until I started to live into
it.
Right.
So I don't really blame people.
Um, it's their privilege andthat's what privilege is, right?
Yep.
Yeah.
It's a lot of privilege,especially now lot, it takes a
lot of fucking privilege to beable to tell someone it's not
(44:21):
that bad, but it's never, itnever goes over Well, if you're
like, if you tell them that,yeah.
Like, oh, that's your privilegeshowing, and then you're just
like, okay, here comes thiswhole ass meltdown.
Right.
Well, it's, it's the, the whitepeople kind of thing.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Like privilege is a.
It's a bad word or a like, it'sa, um.
Mm-hmm.
It's a, I mean, it's just thetruth.
We all have privilege at somepoint in time.
(44:43):
Of course, in certain settingsand certain environments.
We have certain privilege.
There's pretty privilege,there's racial privilege,
there's age, privilege, there'sall these different sorts of
things depending on where you'reat.
And that's just what it is.
Yeah.
And you can either recognizethat or feel some sort of way
about it.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
(45:03):
I just think that that privilegecould be used in more effective
ways than, you know, bringingpeople down that are going
through it.
You know, like people withprivilege could be phenomenal
allies if they want to.
Maybe we should, you know, allyharness that privilege in other
ways.
Yeah.
(45:25):
Ally allies, ally, so, yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
Well, that's good.
I know, I think feeling likethat's an episode.
Is there anything else you wouldlike to say or talk about?
Do you have questions aboutanything or that you Not really,
no.
Um, can folks still help youout?
Like, are you still in need?
Yeah.
Uh, just like really looking forconnections right now.
(45:47):
Kind of just trying to findsomewhere to go.
So that's the biggest struggleright now.
Awesome.
So, okay.
So you haven't necessarily foundlike a city or an area that you
go, not a definite yet.
So you're pretty open.
Yeah.
It's really just the right.
Oregon or Washington.
Right.
And then the right opportunity.
Yeah.
Um, okay.
Well, we'll definitely likeinclude your, uh, contact, like
(46:10):
through TikTok, probably thebest way or Yeah, just my
TikTok.
Okay.
Um, I, all my links are there.
Yeah.
I'll put all your links in thedescription of stuff.
So folks wanna get a hold ofpasture, um, and stay connected
and follow your journey.
Um, they can check it out there.
Totally.
And I wish you and your wife andyour baby to be a wonderful
(46:31):
journey.
Thank you so much and help youstay in touch.
It's really great.
Good to meet y'all.
Yeah, absolutely.
And we keep looking over there'cause Jordan's off camera, but
um Yeah.
But that's why we're looking soit's really great that you're
all here with us today.
Yeah.
Yes.
Thank you for having us.
Of course.
Yeah.
You're gonna have to let us knowhow it all goes'cause I'm really
interested in the whole process.
Very much.
And it's gonna be great.
Thank you.
To be somewhere else.
(46:52):
We're pretty excited.
I'm, I'm rooting for Washingtonfor y'all just because I, it
seems like same, just like thesanctuary cities.
I think like if you have theopportunity to go to a sanctuary
city, like that's what I wouldwant to do.
Probably just to be like, I amin the bluest.
Yeah.
The dot the state.
Yeah.
(47:12):
Can't touch those.
Absolutely.
When your transness isn't athing and you can be.
Challenge with just being afather.
Yeah, exactly.
That's a job in and of itself,like, you know, and that's
exciting and awesome, but yes,it takes a lot to do, you know?
Exactly.
So, um, yeah, sometimes we haveto.
Yeah.
I'm just so happy for you.
I wish you guys the best.
Thank you so much.
(47:33):
And, uh, when this is on, whenyou can actually watch this,
tomorrow will be the Trans JoyCafe.
It's gonna be from 12 to fourat.
6,200 Garrett Street and it'sgonna be barbecue and hot luck
and games.
It's gonna be resource fair.
We're gonna have a lot of folksthere with different resources
(47:55):
that we need.
And like my partner's gonna bethere again doing chair massage,
all sorts of stuff.
It's fun.
Which is great.
I know.
I don't let no one touchmassage.
I'm like that person and I tooka picture of them, a massage.
No, they were, you're both likeso.
White.
White.
And we were both getting so redand I was like, oh shit.
Because we're like out on theside, like, oh, just like red,
(48:16):
red.
Yeah.
So it'll be a really good timeand I hope that if you can make
it, that you come down and seeus.
Yeah, it's free.
There's food, there's bevy.
If you wanna sign up to bringsome food, that's cute.
But you don't have to, if you'rea vendor who wants like a
resource, a person who canprovide a resource, hit us up.
We have a little link on ourstuff that you can sign up for
(48:36):
if you wanna.
Run a volleyball game or mm-hmm.
Do something just, just, youknow, like this is basically
family coming together, so it'slike whatever people want to
contribute.
Mm-hmm.
That's so cool.
Contribute.
Yeah.
We do it once a month too.
Oh, cool.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That'll be fun.
Okay.
I think that's it.
Bye bitches.
All right.
See you next week.
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